#i know this probably sounds like an anti destiel post but it’s not | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

gay-otlc · 2 years ago

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Straight A Supervillain- 14

Shit starts going down.

Content warnings: Politics (fake but based on reality), bigotry (fake because it's anti-superpowers, but based on reality), description of a panic attack and trichotillomania.

Enjoy!

When Cameron first interrupted eir pitiful attempt at writing an essay on henchperson qualifications, Naomi was grateful. This gratitude quickly went away when ey looked up and noticed the look on her face. “Cameron? You look okay? You look like someone just called you cishet,” ey said.

Cameron didn’t even crack a smile at what Naomi thought was a very funny comparison, if ey said so emself. Silently, he handed her computer over, setting it between em and Lani (who were holding hands as they worked, not that it was anyone’s business). “Ugh, is this tumblr? I had to delete my account last year because some discourse bullshit made me set my computer on fire,” ey explained, shuddering at the memory.

Noel gave em a concerned look. “Please don’t set this computer on fire,” he said as he leaned over Lani’s shoulder to look. “Your username is ‘frog earrings my beloved?’”

“I like frog earrings, okay? Just read the post. Naomi, no arson.”

“Dammit, Cameron.”

Before ey could further argue the arson case, Lani scrolled down and began reading off the screen. “IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ! Senate majority leader Laura Smith introduced a new bill on November 5th, parenthesis, and tumblr paid more attention to Destiel smh, end parenthesis, called the Superpower Restriction Bill. Creative name, Smith. This is really bad news for anyone in the country with superpowers, especially for villains which I’d imagine are more popular on this hellsite. This bill orders the draining of power from every supervillain and supervillain in training, people with powers who don’t plan to become supers, and even heroes with destructive powers like fire or super strength. For a complete list of powers that even superheroes can’t have, look at senatorlaurasmith.gov. I know yall get all your news from tumblr dot hellsite even though you shouldn’t, but here’s an Eyver Times article with all this information and I’d encourage you to read that. Stay safe yall, blue heart emoji.”

She left the rest of the group in stunned silence.

“What the everloving fuck,” Noel said, finally.

Cameron nodded. “So, we’re fucked.”

“I mean, the law hasn’t passed yet,” Lani offered. “Smith could be alone in thinking this is a good idea, and people can petition or protest or whatever.”

“Or we could assassinate her.”

“Naomi?”

Ey rolled eir eyes. “I’m kidding, Noel. On the bright side, if this law does get passed, my dad will lose his powers and probably my mom too, they’ll be so pissed and it’ll be hilarious.” It felt strange to mention eir parents so casually when ey spent so long trying to keep that hidden, but definitely good, to bitch about Blaze and Thunderclap out loud. Bitching was always better when people could listen.

Cameron shrugged. “That sounds satisfying, but I would prefer for no one to lose their powers, actually.”

“No, I agree, but that would be a silver lining.”

“This sucks,” Noel mumbled, slumping his head onto his hands.

“It sure does,” Lani agreed. “Should we take a look at the article? Make sure…” she glanced at the poster’s username. “Liveslugsboyfriend-official was telling the truth and we’re not freaking out over nothing?”

Noel nodded. “Seems reasonable.” They all stared at the computer. Naomi definitely didn’t want to be the one to click for confirmation, and by the look of it, the rest of the gang didn’t want to either. Noel was the first to cave, with a muttered “Fuck it.”

The link led to eyvercitytimes.gov, so it was probably real. Shit. The headline read “Superpower Restriction Bill.” Once again, shit.

Lani cleared her throat and read. “Majority leader Laura Smith introduced the Superpower Restriction Bill to the rest of the senate late the night of November fifth. This bill, intended to minimize the damage done by superheroes and villains alike, outlined an ambitious plan to entirely remove superpowers from all who possess them, save for some heroes with less destructive powers. Smith states that she has been apprehensive at the potential for destruction these individuals hold for years, and has wanted to do something about it for a long time. What pushed her to assemble a team of scientists to investigate the cause of superpowers- and how to use that to take them away- was when the daughter of Ben and Alana Rothstein, more commonly known as the heroes Blaze and Thunderclap, endangered her- eir- school when first developing fire powers. ‘This is far too much power for anyone to have, let alone a child,’ Smith said after the incident occured, and she has been hard at work ever sin- Naomi, are you okay?”

“I’m fine,” Naomi mumbled, intstinctively. Ey could barely hear Lani. Barely hear anything. All the shit that was going on- this stupid senator trying to take away the powers that meant so much to em and all of eir friends and Lani and everyone at this school- it was because of em, because of when ey lost control three years ago and been haunted by it ever since. That day hadn’t just pushed em away from eir parents and solidified their disappointment in em. It hurt every other villain, everyone else with superpowers. My fault, my fault, my fault. If eir friends hadn’t hated em for being related to heroes, and that was a miracle in itself, they would definitely hate em now. Who wouldn’t? Ey hated emself.

“Naomi. Breathe.” The command- eir head was swimming too much to gather where it had come from- brought eir attention to the fact that ey wasn’t, in fact, breathing. Ey made no attempt to fix this. It was too much effort to breathe right now, and that wasn’t a luxury ey deserved, was it, not after hurting so many people.

“I’m- I’m sorry,” ey gasped. The room closed in around em. Was there something on eir chest? It was so heavy, ey was trapped, ey couldn’t fucking breathe-

“Shh. Naomi. Deep breaths.” Something cold touched eir hand. “Please don’t pull any hair out.”

Whoever was holding eir hand didn’t get it. Ey needed to pull hair out, that was the only thing that could possibly bring relief from the anxiety storming all around. I’m having a panic attack, ey noticed distantly. The thought did nothing. Ey still wanted to pull. Ey still couldn’t breathe.

“It is not your fault,” another voice said. Soft, almost lyrical. Ey wanted to wrap the voice around em like a blanket. Lani? Only Lani could make em think such a stupidly sappy thought, so it must have been her. Her voice was nice. Naomi tried to focus on it, tried to take eir spiralling thoughts and draw them all to this one point, concentrate on listening ot her speak. “It’s not your fault Laura’s a bitch and afraid of what she doesn’t understand, or that her only response to something that can be harmful is to eradicate it completely. She’s an adult and you were eleven. Your actions then are not responsible for her terrible reaction, okay?”

It made sense. Lani had a good point. Of course Lani had a good point. But regardless of most of the blame lying with Laura, VHS would be a hell of a lot safer if Naomi hadn’t been there to ruin everything.

“Keep breathing,” said a different voice. “Breathing is important.”

Breathing is important, ey tried to respond in a high, mocking tone. Eir mouth wouldn’t cooperate, but it was nice to see eir internal monologue had resumed being a bitch. Good sign. Ey took a slow breath in eir nose, and out eir mouth. Then repeated the action. And again, and again, until the spiral slowed and eir thoughts sorted themselves into something coherent.

“Fuck,” ey said simply.

“Fuck,” Noel agreed. He was the one keeping eir hand away from eir hair.

Cameron took his computer and shut it gently. “I think we’ve had enough of politics,” she mumbled. “Let’s go… I don’t know. School library? Get some books for you nerds?”

“You’re also a nerd,” ey said. Four whole words. Progress.

“Can’t argue with that. Come on.” He helped em up, and Lani put an arm around eir shoulders as they walked out the room and to the library. Naomi had hoped looking for some nice gay books would serve as a distraction, but unfortunately, everyone around them was hell bent on talking about the new bill. Panic bounced around the hallways and between students. What would they think if they knew I was the kid who inspired the bill? No way in hell would I be lucky enough for them to be as forgiving as the arson gang.

“Naomi. Keep doing the breathing thing. It would be bad if you stopped,” Lani reminded em.

Ey stuck eir tongue out, but obeyed. All ey could really do was breathe and fight a panic attack off with a stick as ey stumbled through the day, badly finishing homework and trying to enjoy the gay books. When it was time to eat eir stupid vegetarian alternative because stupid VHS decided to serve stupid nonkosher lobster, ey barely picked at it. Naomi supposed it was a good thing the food was terrible, because eir stomach was swirling way too badly to eat much of anything, and ey wouldn’t want to miss out on something good.

Dr. Plague got to the stage and cleared his throat into the microphone. It took him several tries to speak through the frantic, anxious chatter echoing around the room. “Ladies, gentlemen, and villains,” he said finally, and the opening usually made em crack a smile and Cameron declare themself all three, but no one in the arson gang said anything. “Given the rumors I’ve heard circulating the school, it seems as though a majority of you have heard of the Superpower Reduction Bill. I’d like to, pardon my expression, set everyone straight on this; the state senate leader introduced this bill that would take away the powers of everyone in this room, and everyone else except for a few of her favorite heroes. This has not passed, and villains around the state are prepared to protest using every tool at our disposal, legal or otherwise. Villains will triumph over policticians.”

Two weeks passed in a flurry of stress, homework, fighting panic attacks off with a stick, and sending letters to state senators encouraging them to vote against the bill. It seemed rather useless, but ey wasn’t sure what else to do. Some students had organized a protest, but Naomi was worried ey would be recognized by Laura Smith as the pyromaniac who started this. Or worse, that eir parents would be there and recognize em. Ey resigned emself to writing letters and letting Lani help em edit out the profanity.

Naomi had almost forgotten about it, but towards the end of November, another reason to be stressed- as if ey didn’t have enough- came along. Time for the next elimination.

It was a little funny how anxious ey had been the last time. It was still a struggle to not go mad with worry, of course, but the focus on grades seemed mildly trivial compared to the very real threat of losing eir superpowers for good. And this time, Naomi felt fairly confident in eir grades. Throwing oneself into work to avoid panicking had its benefits.

Eir last assignment for Villain Monologues before the elimination was one of the few to give em real trouble. “In light of the recent threat to your powers, what does being a supervillain mean to you?” The question kept Naomi at eir desk, tapping eir pencil and groaning, for far longer than Lani would have encouraged em to be awake.

Being a supervillain means a last ditch attempt to help my community to make amends for hurting them beyond repair three years ago.

Being a supervillain means showing everyone that they were right to believe me dangerous, and make them regret being right.

Being a supervillain means continuing to fight the system that tries to hurt me, because it would be cowardly to work as a hero and serve the people who want me gone.

Finally at least half satisfied, ey threw eir pencil down and slept badly.

The next morning, the arson gang silently got ready and sat at breakfast, ready for the announcement that could ruin their cobbled together lives.

Cameron Delos.

Noel Garner.

Lani Hale.

Ey squeezed eir maybe-girlfriend’s hand, holding eir breath as ey hoped to complete their group moving on.

Naomi Lebowski.

“We made it,” ey sighed, leaning eir head on Lani’s shoulder. “Not that I was worried. I wasn’t worried.”

Whatever was coming next, with the Superpower Reduction Bill, at least they would be facing it together.

#straight a supervillain #do you like my descriptions of tumblr in this universe #do you like how i named the antagonist laura #s's writing

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msgrumpygills · 3 years ago

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So I’m kind of new to the fandom. I’ve been casually watching the show for a couple years now but only recently got into the fandom side. And I have to say, never in my life have I seen so much drama and toxicity in one place. I’m ashamed to admit that I’m enjoying the drama though lol.

Before I start though, I personally believe you can make anyone sound problematic if you try hard enough, we’ve all done and said stupid things, but when you decide to become famous you should be ready to be held accountable for the smallest things, not saying it’s right. It’s just how things are unfortunately.

So far I’ve decided that I just don’t like Jared and Danneel,did you know she used the same bullying tactics that Jared has used? I saw a screenshot from her story where she called someone out for... being mean to her? I can only hope the poor girl is ok after her dms were most likely flooded with angry stans. And she just seems so tacky, it’s really obvious if you take a look at her tweets from a decade ago, this woman does not have the potential or capacity to be any kind of famous.And honestly I think one of your anons were right about J2 being trumpies, especially Jared, I was looking for dirt on him and the guy said in a tweet that cracker is a slur? So far everyone I’ve met who had those kind of ideologies turned out to be somewhat of a racist so idk. As for Jensen, he seems to be a bit smarter in the sense that he knows when to stay quiet, but I think he’s probably the same as Jared. I think I remember him making a joke right alongside Jared when he was making that chloroform rape joke. And I think he said the N-word in his last panel with Jared? I think it was a fan’s name. I’ve been told he got the name right the first time and then practically said the N-word the second time around. I do think J2 are closet republicans who are trying to seem progressive because that’s what sells these days.

And Gen, she just seems so... uninteresting? Like I have no desire to know anything about her, unlike the others. But your blog helped out a bit with that. I still think she’s boring and uninteresting lol. I honestly think she should’ve just tried to get a role without Jared’s help. It probably would’ve been real hard, but earning a role through nepotism will not help her career if she decides to ever have one again. But then again, I remember thinking her acting paled in comparison to Katie Cassidy’s, who also played the character Ruby the season before Gen came along. So good luck to her I guess lmao.

So far the only one I’m unsure about is Misha? I mean you’ve got the hardcore Jared stans and the hardcore Misha stans, from what I’ve seen, both sides are extremely biased, and frankly, they all look like idiots from the outside, and they both have completely different beliefs. But you seem to be a bit more level headed, so I thought I’d ask you,tell me all the dirt. What are some of the shitty things he’s done? And I’m sorry this got so long.

The Supernatural fandom is one of the worst fandoms to be in. One of the big reasons that I stopped watching the show was because of the fans, I’ll be honest. But yeah, it is kinda fun to watch the drama, as long as you’re at a distance and safe!

I absolutely agree that anyone can be problematic. Hell, if I became famous and people found my old tweets or Facebook posts, even Tumblr posts, I’d probably be “cancelled” or called out. I’m not a terrible person, but we’ve all been young and dumb and we’ve all been embarrassing, that’s just part of life.

Danneel has absolutely been a bitch, there’s really no nice way of saying it. Fans have had horrible experiences with her in real life too. I think if she was more active on social media again, she’s still be showing her true colors, but she’s not active really. I do remember Jared’s “cracker” controversy and like....I try not to be political, but really dude? I’m white and I don’t consider cracker to be racist or a slur. It’s ridiculous to me? I’m no History major, but I don’t recall people using cracker to describe white people who were considered “lower than” others.

Jensen is overall a lot smarter than Jared, but he has made mistakes still. The difference is that Jensen apologizes, he holds himself accountable, and he changes his behavior to make sure that he doesn’t make those mistakes again. No one is perfect, but at least Jensen can own up, take responsibility and change. Jared....well we know Jared.

Gen is....well you said you’ve seen my blog, and there are other “antis” here who can shed even more light. She’s uninteresting but thinks she’s the bee’s knees.

Don’t be sorry about the message getting long! I’m famous for being long-winded, so you’re among friends!

Misha is......Misha. His fans are absolutely insane (I know there are some normal ones) so any sort of negative backlash against him is usually buried. I’ve made a few posts about him and why I stopped really being a fan of his, but I will try to summarize!

I started getting kind of turned off to him around the 2016 election because he was bombarding social media with politics and I just wasn’t there for it. A lot of fans came after me for that but that’s their prerogative. I actually started seeing some anti posts on here and went down a rabbit hole of things that I’d looked past or didn’t know about that all mounted up. Some of those things are; (I don’t have links for everything because the one blog that had compiled everything together isn’t active anymore, but someone might have screenshots!) Also in no particular order!

Misha admitting to leering at kids at a playground while preparing for his role in Karla.

Having his young female fanbase send him pictures of themselves only wearing cheese bikinis or kale swimsuits, etc. for GISHWHES. I know some people think “it’s just a goofy scavenger hunt” but if it wasn’t Misha Collins, would you want your barely legal sister sending pictures of her only wearing cheese to a 40 something year old man?

His constant blatant disrespect for Jensen and his aversion to Destiel, his baiting of the fans and complete abandonment of Jensen when he gets the backlash.

He baits the Destiel fans to the point of them making Jensen uncomfortable, then when Jensen puts his foot down, the fans attack him harshly. Where was Misha for that? Silent. Even though he was the one who eggs everyone on.

Being rude, sexual, and otherwise inappropriate in front of children at conventions. I know fans will say “it’s not his responsibility to monitor kids!” but the fact that he continues to act like that while knowing there are kids in the audience is weird. I wouldn’t be making sexual jokes or being lewd in front of kids, that’s gross.

His whole “charity” act that is really just him profiting from his “kindness” acts and his GISHWHES hunts. Pretty charitable of him.

The fact that he uses Stands to push baiting merchandise onto fans with no regard to how Jensen feels, just to make a buck. (In addition to that, he doesn’t reign in the Stands staff who are horrible to fans and customers.)

I’m sure that there’s more, but that’s all I can think of at the moment! Hopefully that sheds some light! I try not to be too biased either way, but with some of the things it’s hard not to.

#grumpy answers #misha collins #jared padalecki #anti genevieve #Anonymous

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awed-frog · 4 years ago

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Hi, I hope this is ok to ask. I've seen some of your posts on Destiel and wondered when you left the fandom and why? It sounds like it was a long time ago? I ask because I saw so many people so certain about the outcome and then freak out when it ended badly, as it probably always would have. It just made me wonder what the red flags were for you. I saw them myself mainly from the reactions of fellow shippers attacking even those who agreed w/them, but that was very recent. What was it for you?

I don’t know exactly.

I think I got fed up when the show started to get worse and worse, with tons of weird stuff, bad writing and plot holes and Dean and Cas being virtually strangers, at which point the atmosphere around Destiel-positive meta writers turned sort of messianic. Some people were acting like they *knew*, and they never apologized for getting stuff wrong. Instead, it was either ‘Wait until next week, this is a slow-burn’ or ‘I was actually right, it’s there in the magnificent subtextual clues you are too stupid to see’. There was always only one explanation, one *truth* only that specific person and their friends could uncover, and everyone who disagreed was yelled out of the circle. There was a gradual cleaning out of the tags until all ‘negativity’ (ie, all forms of criticism) were filtered out, and endless circle-jerky activities to reinforce the ‘right’ opinions. One good example of this is how surveys suddenly multiplied and how they all got the same kind of results - either because only some fans (the ‘right’ kind) cared enough to take part or because of actual manipulation (I once saw someone reblogging their survey like ‘Signal boost! This has too many [wrong] answers! We need more people with [right] opinions!!’.

At the same time, I started getting more and more messages from people who were disappointed with the show but were afraid to speak out, or felt stupid for not ‘seeing’ and ‘understanding’ where the story was (allegedly) going. Finally, it got to a point where a single bad episode, and the endless ‘No, but you see?? This actually supports [right] opinion!’ posts that came with it would ruin my mood for an entire week. At that point, thank God, a few people both on tumblr and IRL stepped in and were like ‘Dude, wtf? Just get out’, so I did.

As for the dates, I joined tumblr around S10 and stopped watching during S13 (I think; I don’t even remember what S13 was about, so it’s hard to be sure).

I think the main reasons why I ignored those red flags for so long are:

The way social media are built, how you’re stuck inside your bubble, start getting addicted to the number of followers and likes and asks, feel *important* and *liked*, slowly learn to self-censor so you can fit in; and also the infinity scrolling, the activity log, the ‘Someone is wrong on the internet’ syndrome, hate mail and trolls and seeing friends and mutuals getting doxxed for wrongthink.

I was actively trying to drown. My life back then was a nightmare. Obsessing over a show was way better than being alone with my thoughts, and getting mad at some nobody on tumblr created the right amount of emotion to bury everything else. Looking back, it all seems idiotic. I knew it could happen, I’d read about it, I’d seen it happen IRL, and yet it still happened to me. It sounds stupid, but if you build yourself a cage to stay safe, you end up getting trapped.

I’m sure there are people who get to enjoy fandom in the right way - I even know some of them. They find friends, enjoy the content they see and create, can treat the whole thing as a harmless hobby. Personally, I find bubbles of any kind very bad for my life and my mental health, mostly because they’re inevitably dominated by those who spend a long time in there - generally extremists and weirdos. The option we now have to filter out opinions we don’t like - that’s how radicalizing works. It sounds overdramatic, but there’s a direct link between those fans who were so shocked by the SPN finale they’re now believing conspiracy theories and everyone else - the QAnon people, the anti-vaxxers, teenage gamers who’re sucked into the alt-right, unhappy Muslims recruited by ISIS - it’s always the same process. Talk often, talk loudly, talk with authority, cut people off other sources, make people feel special because they’re the only ones who understand and promise them the Good Thing is coming. Sometimes cult leaders know exactly what they’re doing; other times they’re just deluded, narcissistic, charismatic people with too much time on their hands who legit believe what they’re saying and don’t realize the damage they’re doing, but the playbook is exactly the same. When it comes to the SPN fandom, I heard many stories similar to mine, and I hope people who find themselves overgrieving after that awful finale will soon get their own ‘Dude, wtf? Just get out’ moment and take that advice. There’s a whole world out there, and it’s not half bad.

#ask #fandom problems #cults #brainwashing #radicalization #discourse #untagged #meanwhile irl

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nileqt87 · 4 years ago

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Despair For Castiel: A Review

From a series of posts before and after watching:

Before:

As far as I'm concerned, I'm now imagining the Empty having to deal with Gabriel and Balthazar redecorating the Empty into the angel/demon afterlife (probably with a lot of wacky alternate realities and bad porno) with all the free will angels and redemptive demons invited, Cas finding Meg and eventually Jack again for his true happy ending that he can have and Crowley probably trying to install himself as king again. Then when Rowena finally exits as Queen of Hell, she'll join and Crowley will annoyed, but Gabriel will be happy to see her again. LOL.

Megstielers also got robbed hard with all that setup of Cas still pining for Meg for YEARS, the Empty using her image (not Dean!) to taunt him (the Empty clearly saw Meg in Cas' head when it could have taken the form of anyone, including Cas like last time) and a whole dropped plot thread that Cas made a deal with Ruby to break a demon out of the Empty, which only makes sense with the one and only demon he'd actually want to let out of the Empty. That's dangling one 'ship a whole bunch of carrots (like every single Clarence reference for a decade) to rip the rug out from under them.

I suppose I should've seen it coming when the previously on segment for 15x13 was a Pizza Man and the Babysitter retrospective that shoved Cas out of the Pizza Man role beside Babysitter Nurse Meg to shove Dean into Megstiel's sexy times meme. I guess it turned Cas into just Dean's Baby in a Trench Coat (which was an insult about being useless to Dean's cause without powers, which suggests Cas has no worth to him otherwise), since he got infantilized with the removal of the Pizza Man originally being him.

I still haven't watched the episode. The Tumblr crap is that off-putting.

What should've been an epic moment in Cas' story is now tainted by his love of humanity, found family and free will (his real love story is with all of humanity and finding belonging, in spite of always being on the outside looking in on a life he can't have because he's not human) being reduced to horny girls who just want fetish smut with Dean and don't give a fig about canon Cas outside of a toxic, abusive crack!ship. It's always so immature and vapid!

It was immediately clear when I joined the fandom that shockingly few gave a crap about any character but Dean, even refusing to see what he's become in later seasons. Also numerous examples where they admit having not seen the show in a decade or only knowing the show via manipulative .gif sets. Cas and Sam (if they remember him at all) are just props or prizes to be won. They ignore context of familial/platonic relationships. Canon love interests aren't good enough because they're not the big prize of being a main. I also note the deluge of Wincest girls who hate Cas for existing (he's in their way) in the anti-Destiel tag.

I can't say the .gifs are making me want to watch, even though the dialog is vague enough to still fit Cas' actual character for the general audience who isn't glued to social media.

As for Dean's non-reaction, I had similar problems with Jensen's constipated acting back in 15x03 when Cas finally walked away while Dean looked like he couldn't care less, which the writers coincidentally praised Jensen for (holy crap that interview was up his backside) and completely ignored Misha actually giving a good performance in a scene that actually meant something long coming for Cas. I certainly can't say the same about the quality of this scene, which just looks forced on both ends.

I hope I like the episode more than the sounds of it, but my hopes aren't high. This is not how I wanted Cas' final moments on the show to be.

After:

Well, I got up the stomach to watch it tonight. Thankfully, in context, it definitely got blown way out of proportion by what the Hellers turned it into (as usual). Yeah, even when watching while unfortunately not blind to the wackadoodle fandom discourse, it played out better on screen than the .gifs. And frankly, a whole lot less like creepy Care Bear stare nightmare fuel than the few choice screenshots kept showing (yikes). I still wish Sam and Jack had been there, because they're just as much part of what connected Cas to feeling like part of a family (even more so in the later years), but it's not the total monstrosity it was turned into online.

Average viewers who just take canon as is without trying to read into it what they want to be there instead, IMO, will safely interpret it platonically (even if coming after a particularly hellish few years in Dean's personality rot where the whole friendship was beginning to be questionable) more often than not because that's what the canon has said for a dozen years. Again, I repeat that Cas already told the Winchesters he loved them when he thought he was dying.

It's a crime to have Cas' perfect philia (brotherly), storge (parental) and agape-style (sacrificial and unconditional) loves being immaturely twisted into eros in a way that degrades the whole meaning of the character's journey. People telling each other they love one another when it's not sexual should never be mocked into being afraid to do so because of this insidious, willful misinterpretation. If only somebody had told Cas they love him instead of him always being the one with his heart on his sleeve!

This character went from being tortured into a robotic, emotionless, ancient, not-remotely-humanoid being who couldn't relate to the simplest of human needs to being someone deeply in love with humanity and wanting to find belonging amongst it despite knowing it would always end with him watching them all grow old and die after having families and such experiences angels are forbidden from having (another reason why Jack was so important to Cas' story).

The wording is valid for that philia/agape interpretation, given Cas definitely equated Dean (whom Cas watched sacrificing himself for Sam endlessly, including why he had to be raised from perdition in the first place) with a guide role in his learning to understand humanity and proudly-defiant free will before he could love it. It's valid enough to say that Cas wouldn't have broken his programming permanently without being challenged to question everything he'd ever believed and give up his entire angelic belonging. That much of it did begin with Cas just happening to be the angel who succeeded in the Hell rescue.

Obviously, it's also canon that Cas had a long history of not following orders and getting lobotomized by Naomi, but Cas actually understanding humanity and what free will means did happen only after this particular rebellion. I'm very glad at least that was in the speech, but of course, it's being hopelessly ignored.

I stand by my interpretation that what Cas can't have has always been the tragic version of The Little Mermaid where she turns into sea foam in the end. Cas has always looked in on what everyone else takes for granted from the outsider's perspective. There's a part of him that will always be left out, no matter how well he learns to fit in and how much those around him begin to treat him as a real person. Cas never really got to truly belong with humanity, no matter how much he loves and is loved by it. He's also not getting to stay where he wants to be. There's no Pinocchio ending for Cas that turns him into a real Winchester.

Sadly, Dean's constant othering of him and Jack like they're just more monsters to hunt only alienated them more. Jack was someone Cas could relate to as a supernatural being capable of human emotions, which might also have furthered his draw towards Meg. Sam was also someone Cas could relate to as freaks and abominations amongst their own kinds. Sam always had that same struggle, also with his own family. It goes a long way towards explaining why Sam was always so empathetic to Cas and Jack in a way that Dean couldn't be. All three kept conflicting with that black & white humans = good/other = bad mindset that sometimes creeps in with Dean. When Cas was Dean's "best friend" in the early days, he rationalized it by thinking of Cas as being "like" a human ("You used to be human, or at least like one.").

Yet it still remains true that Cas often found himself looking to Dean to teach him about humanity back when he didn't know enough about it to be inconspicuous amongst them. Dean gave him the crash course in both what humanity is willing to do for each other, but also its flaws and failings at the same time.

Perhaps the saddest scenes in the episode were actually Sam watching everyone poof in front of him. Sam has really been forced to watch a lot of death scenes this season all by himself (as with Rowena), but he looked the most broken by Eileen's. Cas is going to be hard on him, because I genuinely think Sam was far closer to him in the end. Sam was the one who actually was trying to reach out to Cas when Dean repeatedly kept him out of the loop. Sam being left out from the final words with Cas or even hearing first-hand about the deal with the Empty just furthers that tragedy. While Dean has been raging at everything in sight, Sam and Cas have both looked broken, sad and tired all season.

#castiel #anti-destiel #dean critical #anti-dean winchester #megstiel #team free will #dean winchester #sam winchester #meg masters #jack kline #eileen leahy #saileen #spn #supernatural #spn 15x18 #spn s15 #s15 #despair

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bluephoenixdruidicprincess · 5 years ago

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Started watchin spn an yr ago. I realized I really ship wincest (fantasy) and I love the J2 ship aswell. The thing is, I’m hungry for wincest and J2 blogs & posts. But every time I go to a said blog, there’s so much Cas/Misha hate. Tbh, I don’t care much about destiel. I thinks it’s a cute ship. But I don’t ship it. I love J2 and wincest. But I can’t get myself to hate Misha/Cas. Why do y’all hate Misha so much? I can’t see any reason for all this hate.

Hello! Thanks for the ask!

I first want to call attention to this phrase you left in the ask, "why do y'all hate Cas/Misha?" I'm hoping this comment was completely rhetorical and not actually directed at me. And if it was directed at me, color me confused, I guess. This has always been a very pro-Cas/pro-Misha blog. I mean, Cas is my favorite character on the show and I spent good money at the 2018 Charlotte Conventention to get two photo op opportunities with Misha. And I can't even think of a single instance where I was anti-Cas/anti-Misha or even critical-Cas/critical Misha on this blog. I feel like the only person SPN related I've ever been anti towards is Dean but I always properly tag that. But I've never been anti any of the actors. I think they're all fabulous people. If that comment was directed at me and it wasn't rhetorical, maybe you have me confused with someone else?

But anyway, let's get on with this, shall we?

I completely understand your love for wincest and J2. While wincest is not my thing (or really any incest ship) I don't begrudge anyone who ships them. I totally understand it and I definitely don't view anyone who ships wincest as if they're incestuous in real life. It is exactly as you stated, a fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with that in my book as long as it's a fantasy happening between two consenting adults. I mean, I think we all have that fantasy of wanting to be with someone who completely understands you as only a sibling can.

It sounds to me like you've been visiting a lot of bronly/tinhat blogs. These are blogs that only like J2 and the "brothers only" storyline. Trust me, there are plenty of wincest/J2 shippers out there who do like Cas/Misha. They can be difficult to find as often times, it's the more extreme-radical bloggers that you see most often in fandom so it can feel like those are the only people who exist in the community. But trust me, there's some good peeps mixed way underneath all the bad apples, you just gotta dig for them. Trust me, it took me a while navigating the fandom to find my niche of peeps.

As to why they dislike Cas/Misha, who can say really? Perhaps it's all due to them being super passionate shippers and so therefore can't handle this new character/actor getting in the middle of their ship. Or maybe it's because they don't like Misha's popularity or his political views. Or maybe its just something as shallow as they don't think Cas/Misha is as attractive as Sam and Dean or Jensen and Jared. I mean, if I'm going to be subjective here, for me, Misha has always appealed to me more from a physical attraction standpoint, I got a weakness for dark hair, blue eyes. Tin hats and bronlys are a mystery to me. There was once a time I dug into their section of the fandom just to see what's up and try to understand them but I didn't last for very long. Their hate was just way too toxic for me. So I just gave up on them. There are some people where your views are just too drastically different that it's impossible to find middle ground with them. And if something brews negative emotions in you, why stick around, you know?

And as a former Destiel shipper, yes Destiel can be cute at times and I definitely understand why people ship them, hell I used to do it myself before I just felt like I really needed to get away from that faction of the fandom. But in reality, there really is so many fun ships within the SPN community, I've just found that multishipping is the way to go. And there's definitely no harm in not shipping Destiel -- even if there are shippers out there who may disagree with you but I just ignore those people. I understand why people ship Destiel and I understand why people don't. I don't begrudge them either way. I've really just become mostly apathetic to the Destiel ship. It's an interesting ship to be sure but it's just not something I'm super passionate about anymore. I've actually fallen moreso into Sastiel and Mishalecki when it comes to SPN shipping. But I'm generally a multishipper. Really, if I'm not shipping a character with at least three different people, I probably am not very fond of that character.

I hope this response was what you were going for. Thanks for dropping by!

#anti tinhat #anti bronly #mildew #wank for ts #misha collins #castiel #cas hate #misha hate #anti destiel

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go-diane-winchester · 6 years ago

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The Travis Aaron Wade debacle and why you should care.

I only write about my boys, Jensen and Jared, and any harm that I feel is coming their way. That harm comes from Misha's mobilizing and his poisonous fanbase. So why am I talking about this? It's got nothing to do with Jensen and Jared? Well, actually, it does. And I am starting to feel, maybe Wade is innocent. I am not saying he is, because the case is still pending. But, thus far, he has only been accused. He hasn't been proven guilty. I am an abuse survivor, having dealt with this horror three different times in my life, twice as a child and once as an adult. If Travis did do any of this, I would back up his accusers, I don't care how much of a friend he was, to Jensen and Jared. Abuse of any kind is intolerable and in Travis's case, some minors were involved. That is unforgivable.

Travis Aaron Wade, in case you didn't know, was accused of sexually harassing and stalking fans at cons and then via social media around 2015. When I first heard this, I believed it because the allegations came at a time when I was fast asleep with regard to this fandom. Even then, I frowned when a recognizable name popped up in this debacle: Emily Rose. So I guess I wasn't as fast asleep as I thought. Emily is the fan who got into a fight with William Shatner over destiel. He even accused her Anti-Bullying Twitter page of being biased. I don't just believe anything this person's name is attached to, because she is a very devious creature. So recently, I decided to dig deeper and came across a report on this case. Upon reading it, I realized something. Almost every single person who has accused Travis is either a minion or heller or both. People mentioned in the case are also minions or hellers or both. That is too much of a coincidence. This is the list of the accusers and the affiliated parties in this case:

Ashley McClintic [first accuser]

Theresa Cotter/Lua James [fled California after Travis's home was vandalized]

Monica Gleberman [lied that she has sex with Jensen and Jared]

Lexi (Alexis) Cooper (@lexicooperxo / @hugsforthemish)

Stacy LePore

Emily Cleghorn [Emily Rose - refused to help Travis when his account was hacked]

Michele Villery [Monica's friend - defamed Travis online]

Jackie Bojarski [Monica's friend - defamed Travis online]

Kristin Justice [claimed Travis kissed her in crowded room]

Reba Snodgrass (@RebaWinchester / @Mishanews)

Jessica Halliday

Jenna DeViller

Kim Swartz

Falon Yates

Janelle Clay Davis [stalked Travis online mobilizing fans against him]

Rike Marie, or Melanie Adeline (@mishasdiary [sent nudes to Travis]

Dominique Teagle

Sgt Stephanie Fiebke [mocked Travis's military career]

Sara Burnhope

Katie Maie Aucter

Elizabeth Wera [told the truth and then retracted statement]

Michelene [only name provided in this report]

Jenna [no other name provided]

What are the odds? The only people Wade went after were Misha's fans, and the only people who tried to help them were Misha's fans. Nope! Something is very off about this whole scenario. This case is a legal one now, so there are certain receipts that are unavailable. However, most of the information, corroborated with many receipts, is on this site: http://www.spntrollsvstravisaaronwade.com/. Be warned the some information is withheld due to the ongoing investigation and the reporter does become subjective. There is also some hearsay in the report, something I am not crazy about. Hearsay has no place in an investigative reports. But the report is thorough, and has various receipts. I am not telling you to believe everything. I am just telling you to keep an open mind.

After reading these reports, about the accusers and their accounts of the events, I have to say the whole situation seems fishy. The accusers made really far-fetched claims and there is proof that some of them not only lied, but some of the sympathizers were stalking Travis for years now, hacking into his account and stabbing a knife into his front door with a note threatening to kill him, his family including the family dogs. Two of the victims confessed to lying about the accusations. The first is Lexi Cooper.

The second is Reba Snodgrass [Mishanews] who was doing a con called Wayward Con, which is why she apologized to Travis. She wanted him to do the con. She did a video confession, but after being reprimanded by hellers on social media, she recanted the apology. Many of the accusers set up gofundme and similar accounts asking for money for legal fees, but never approached lawyers. The more I looked into this, the more sorry I feel for Travis. I am not saying I know what happened, but so far, they look more guilty than he does. Why was there such a full blown ambush against him? If he is innocent, then there were some possible reasons.

Travis was threatening the spinoff

Travis, and I didn't know this, is quite a popular actor, even amongst SPN fans. Fans were choosing him over Kim and Briana. If CW got wind of this, they might have cancelled the Wayward idea and pushed for something with Cole, Travis's character. The hellers didn't want this because their logic was that if they could make Wayward happen, they could make destiel happen. So they couldn't afford for Wayward to fail. That is why Travis had to go.

Travis threatened Cockles

Apparently Travis has said something sweet about Jensen and Jared's friendship. Clif [who is an idiot] made a big deal out of the whole issue because of the possible tinhat angle of what Travis was saying. As a PR person, I would like to tell Clif: stop acting like a suspicious idiot. No one is drawing more attention to the tinhat thing than you are. Try being subtle, stupid fool. You are causing more ripples, instead of letting it just slide. Well, Clif was not the only one that was affected by Travis's lighthearted comments. The hellers were adversely affected too. There are tinhats amongst them, who believe that destiel is cockle's fault. This man's admiration for a friendship rubbed them the wrong way. He needed to be punished.

Threat to Misha's ''popularity''

Misha has been on the show for ten years. No one is demanding for a spinoff for him. Not even his own hellers perhaps because they know Jensen wont join Misha, and Castiel is not entertaining by himself. This new guy pops up and suddenly he is very popular. An account called Tara Larson appeared on Twitter, on the 22th of December 2017, accusing Misha of sexual harassment during his photo ops. Any idiot can see that although none of the pictures are tasteful, they are requested and paid for by fans. So that is not sexual harassment. Fans gave their consent and none of them look like minors. Neutral fans are many things, but they are not stupid. The over-reacher's in our fandom are hellers. The hellers allege that Travis's assistant Vicki did it to tarnish Misha's name. Why would she do that? What does Misha have to do with this debacle. The evidence they use, is this one. Vicki is grey.

However, if you read the whole exchange, you see this:

So Vicki knows what a bibro is? She used to be a fan long before the word bibro was born, so she knows the fandom lingo that is not even part of all the fan's lexicon? I know of hellers who don't know what a heller is. Read the whole exchange here:

http://www.spntrollsvstravisaaronwade.com/events-by-year/2017-2/

Nope, the whole thing sounds suspicious. Especially since, at the time when the account was started and active [it has probably been reported and removed now] Vicki and her daughter were, allegedly, both in surgery. Possible scenario is that one of the hellers set up the Tara Larson account to make Travis look like a bully and to make Misha look like a victim. Because why would Vicki do something like that and then confess to it like an idiot. And on social media no less, even though monitoring social media is part of her job. Either that, or they doctored the screenshot. I think the hellers feel Travis was competition for Misha. According to one heller, who knows Misha personally, this is what she said to Travis about Misha.

Now, a few of them are starting to feel the same way about Alex Calvert perhaps because he is a younger, handsomer, shinier new replacement for Misha.

Why I care and why you should

So far, I have received messages from hellers about Jared's ''bad working conduct''. I have posted on people saying that he abuses his power and Misha on set. One heller told me, Jared intentionally cracked her rib by hugging her too hard during a photo op. I made a post about that. Travis's reality today might be Jared's reality tomorrow. They have accused him of racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia etc. Whose to say they don't take this route tomorrow? I mean, it hypothetically worked on Travis. It might work on Jared. Especially since, they hate Jared more that Travis. And Jared is a friendly ''run across the road to meet the fans'' type of person. One big accusation and boom! it's over. Ironically, everyone distanced themselves from Travis when the scandal hit except Jared. Eventually even he had to distance himself, perhaps by the behest of his manager. It was far too sticky a situation. Travis has dealt with the stalking, harassment and vandalism for three years and counting. I think that is too much for anyone to deal with.

Who knows what the legal outcome will be. I don't know Travis well enough to make any claims about him. Although from what I read, he does seem like a very stupid man with a big mouth. A gullible sucker, if you catch my drift. However, if someone out there does know the truth, please speak up. Remember, if you know something about Travis that is incriminatory, and you remain quiet, you are part of the problem. If you know of his innocence, help him, the way you hope someone will help Jared one day. Either speak to Travis's lawyers or send a confidential email message to this reporter at: [email protected]. Informant names will be kept confidential.

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lil-nerdydudewithwings-blog · 7 years ago

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Idk if this was made already (apologies if so) but I noticed Jensen has a peculiar way of unconsciously allowing himself to let on public displays of affection towards other men - in this case, Misha. And this impacts his performance as Dean.

Things we know for sure:

Jensen seems to always end up close to Misha, and one way or another finds himself touching Misha (more than he does other people he works with)

Misha is soft and tender towards Jensen (even if he tries to bro-slap Jen, it comes out as a lingering caress)

Jensen believes in a solid traditional concept of masculinity (perceptible by some comments like “real men do this/have this”, etc..)

I don’t intend to psychoanalyze Jensen or judge him for some of his core beliefs. I do think, however, that all metas in this world are not enough to fully understand Dean and Cas relationship if we don’t consider the dynamics between the actors who play them. In order to understand why Dean acts the way he does in certain situations, we can’t ignore Jensen’s personality, and his relationship with Misha. I’ve found some of the bro-slaps and rough manhandling a bit inappropriate for some of the emotionally charged scenes, and now I’m pretty sure they weren’t scripted at all. I always thought this was Jensen’s way of bro-ing up Dean and Cas’ relationship but I wasn’t aware how much of it was not deliberate/intentional.

Women are raised to be (more) at ease in what concerns developing intimacy with same gender friends. They’re not scolded or marginalized by saying “I love you’s” and openly showing affection towards one another. Masculinity, on the other hand, traditionally establishes itself by the rejection of all traits associated with the feminine. An anti-femininity, if you will. Femininity - traditionally - includes not only intimacy with other women but liking men. Involves allowing them to touch you in intimate ways (I know it sounds like a bunch of crap in 2017, but gender norms have been shaped and defined by these principles for centuries).

There’s a part of born-and-raised-in-Texas-Jensen that rejects the idea of having intimacy with other men. His knee-jerk reaction is “hell, nah, I gotta go”. It’s not even about sexuality, it’s about his idea of manhood, and gender boundaries. Here lies, I believe, the reason why we don’t see Dean being as physically affectionate towards Cas as it would seem natural in their story. Jensen sees Dean as the manliest man there is, in some ways he even admires and looks up to him - as a reference. What Jensen - thinks he - has control over, is the definition of said boundaries: Cas is Dean’s bro. He runs with this even though he knows it’s more complex than that. What Jensen can’t see, is how that mask - the boundaries, the effort, the whole thing - goes up in flames with a single off camera (and set) interaction with Misha.

Most men are raised to only seek intimacy with women, and they crave it with other men, with their friends. Once they feel their manhood is no longer being questioned all the time, once they settle down in a het relationship, have a bunch of kids and their social status is unquestionably secure, they start to allow themselves to experience small portions of intimacy with other men. And I mean, closeness, tenderness, gentleness in the touch. Allowing themselves to feel and be felt by their friend without having to school their facial expression, or recoil from their touch wondering what it looks like from the outside - without worrying about what people will think.

We sure enjoy the show he and Misha put up on every Cockles panel. The innuendos are fun, messy and liberating, but Jensen has shown, more often than not, to actually be drawn to Misha. His body language indicates he gravitates to Misha whenever he can, even if so ever slightly, he will turn towards Misha, look him in the eye, study his reaction after every comment, every remark. There are countless posts on here pointing out just how differently Jensen carries himself around Misha vs everyone else on the set. We can see it. What we don’t always see, so well, is Jensen’s inner struggle to reestablish boundaries with someone who keeps making him tearing them down - Misha. What I’m getting at is that, something as impersonal as a shoulder-slap is charged with meaning coming from Jensen. Dean doing it towards Cas, shows this is Jensen’s definition of love between men, of affection - matter of fact, as affectionate as he can bring himself to be in public. It says “I love him, and were he a she, I would kiss him on the cheek”.

We can’t fully understand Destiel and the feelings involved without looking into certain attitudes the actors (let) bleed out to the characters. The same way, some of the the teasing and - downright - filthy looks Dean gives Cas, actually result of Jensen teasing Misha during shooting. When Jensen allies with Jared and tries to make Misha break character by flirting with him, making R rated comments, sexual innuendos, etc... Which, by the way, is what I call - flirting. One thing is to shove a broom or whatever between Misha’s legs to make him break character like Jared is fond of, another entirely different is to sexually tease and frustrate Misha. Jensen knows the power (and I had to make an effort to not type “influence”) he has over Misha, and he likes it enough to keep using it. The real question is how much he gets off on this bizarre dynamic.

We should discuss more often about how when it comes to Dean and Cas, the writers do not script what we love to gif over here: the longing looks, the sexy tease, the checking out mode... Whereas, the distance between them is planed and set by marks on the floor to fit the camera angles, the mannerisms, facial expressions and looks are mostly Jensen and Misha.

What I find intriguing about the bro-slap is how it contrasts immensely with Jensen’s body language towards Misha. He wants to touch Misha. Whether in unscripted scenes or off camera, Jensen wants to touch him. No one is making him reach out to touch him every chance he gets, be it a shoulder/back/chest slap, a hand on his shoulder or back, putting his arm around him, or rubbing shoulders... it is obvious that Jensen craves that touch, that intimacy, even if (and probably, I’d say) he doesn’t realize it. So his brain offers him a way out, a coping mechanism to touch Misha in a way he’s comfortable with, he can touch him all he wants as long as he’s rough and manhandles him. Mainly when he’s hyper aware of thousands or even millions of eyes on them. I don’t believe for a minute Dean would bro-slap Cas in private, not at this stage, not with their story, I do believe those scenes are Jensen giving himself permission to have some men-on-men intimacy. Oddly enough, for such a careful actor, Jensen, sure knows how to school his body movements in public but can’t seem to be able to exercise control over his facial expressions, eyes, or his unruly eagerness when interacting with Misha.

#cockles #jensen ackles #intimacy issues #toxic masculinity #destiel #deancas #dean and cas #destiel vs cockles #cockles meta #meta

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miyu-hyperfixates · 7 years ago

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The Empty, The Darkness, Death and God

To be honest, I’ve been lurking on Tumblr for a while, sending anonymous asks and all. I never really got the courage to start posting on my own tumblr. And I always thought that if I ever did, my first post would have been something about Dean, Cas or Destiel. But I got @mittensmorgul to thank for that, because she answered one of my cracky headcanon about Chuck and the Empty with some metaphysical thoughts and it made me think.

What is the Empty? The Darkness? God? Death? How do all those entities work together?

And well I guess it’s quite fitting that my first post would be something about The Beginning. So here goes nothing (warning! Long post is long).

The physical laws of the Supernatural World

I’ve seen some “theological” interpretations around about our Four Celestial Entities. You know the whole Light vs Darkness and about how The Empty, The Darkness and Death might be declinations of the same notion. But I don’t think, I’ve seen someone make a physical interpretation of it (and if someone had, my apologies) and for reason because the notion of Supernatural in itself is defying the law of physics. But. Maybe some stuffs are based on existing physical concepts.

Dark Energy, Dark Matter and Matter

Our whole universe is made of approximately 70% Dark Energy, 25% Dark Matter and 5 % Matter.

It means that what we can observe, the Earth, Stars, planet etc. only constitute 5% of the whole thing. That’s Chuck (I don’t think I need to expend on why that is).

What about Dark Matter then? It can’t be seen. Scientists aren’t quite sure of what it is, (though there have been some educated guess) but they know it exists and they know it’s here. Without Dark Matter, there wouldn’t be enough Matter to prevent the whole thing from collapsing right away because of its own gravitational pull. So Dark Matter is essential for Matter to exist. Sound familiar? Dark Matter is the Darkness. The Yin to Chuck’s Yang.

Let’s move on to Dark Energy now. Dark Energy is even more unknown than Dark Matter. Like really. The only thing that we know for sure about Dark Energy is that those 70% that should have been empty space, isn’t actually empty, because nothing is empty. And that space carries some sort of energy. How do we know? Well it’s because the gravitational pull of Matter should have made the expansion of the universe slow down and at some point made it collapses on itself. But it has been observed that the universe expansion is actually faster. And Dark Energy is the thing stronger than the gravitational pull that makes it happen. Dark energy is the Empty.

On a side-note, I’ve seen some people asking if Dark energy and Dark Matter weren’t actually the same thing. And the answer for that was that it might be some declination of the same stuff, but we just don’t know, so for now we just consider them to be two different things. So yeah even in reality we don’t know if the Empty and the Darkness are two different facets of the same entity.

(I initially likened Death to Anti-matter, but it doesn’t actually fit very well so I’m just tentatively putting it here. I don’t know what to make of Death.)

Okay now that we have identified all (more or less) actors let’s see how they interacts in light of the Supernatural world rules.

Chuck and Creation

Chuck created everything that we know of. But what is creation? To cause something into Being. But it’s not from nothingness. Because one of the fundamental law of physic is that nothing is ever truly created and destroyed. So what about Chuck ‘creation’? But hey, didn’t we say that nothing didn’t exist? That Emptiness was actually some sort of space carrying strong energy? So what if creation was something like pulling stuff from Dark Energy and shifting it into Matter?

Okay so what did Chuck created?

- Archangels and Angels : Pure being of Light Energy - Leviathan : Failed creation that was meant to be a balance of Energy and matter - Earth : matter - Humankind : perfect balance of powerful Energy (soul) and matter (body)

Now what’s amazing is that Chuck gave Humanity the ability to “create” too. That’s how they can reproduce and make more souls in the process. And that’s probably the knowledge Eve stole and used to create monsters. Monsters have souls (energy) but with mutated “matter” (body).

So what happens when those stopped to exist? What happens after Death?

Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and the Empty

It’s a well known fact now that when humans and monsters die they either go to Heaven or Hell for the former and Purgatory for the latter. And what does Humans and monsters have in common? Soul and body. Energy and matter.

Death is the end. Not of the soul but of the body. The body is what tethered and hold in the intense energy of the soul. So it makes sense that once the body cease to function, the soul breaks free. And such amount of energy is disruptive that’s why it needs to be carted to either Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. But the soul is not destroyed, merely moved to somewhere else.

It’s different for Angels though. It’s true that they have vessels but they’re not tied to it, like a soul would be to a body. Angels are pure being of energy. And when they die, the energy explodes. And because nothing is never really destroyed (only converted into something else), this amount of Light Energy shifts back to being Dark Energy. And comes back to the Empty.

So it means that if someone tried to stab a soul (somehow), it should potentially shifts back to being Dark Energy too. But hey, wasn’t there a case where the soul is slowly destroyed? Yup in Hell, ie. Demons.

The soul comes whole in Hell, then because of the torture and all it is slowly decomposing, shifting the pure energy of the soul, into something else, but it’s still some sort of energy. Demons don’t have souls. But they are, like angels, being of pure (as in only) energy. And that’s why they go back to the Empty when they die.

tl:dr Dual beings of Energy(soul) and Matter(body) goes to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory because only their Matter’s part died, while their Energy’s is intact.

Pure beings of Energy (Angels, Demons) go back to the Empty because nothing is ever destroyed, everything came from the empty.

#spn #Chuck The Darkness Death Qstiel #Heaven Hell Purgatory and the Empty #Supernatural physics

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diaryofageekgirl · 3 years ago

Note

One person’s tags on this post:

1. Hi! I’m Kat! Destiel is my favourite ship in Supernatural, and I’ve been shipping it since I joined the fandom back in 2013! I also ship Wincest!

Wild how it’s not an either/or, have-to-pick-a-side sort of situation! Wild how people can like multiple ships and concepts within fandom, and the entire “you’re either with us or against us” mentality that has always kind of been here in the SPN fandom but has only gotten worse since the finale is absolute horseshit anyways!

2. “You should know that we hellers (gag) love Sam because he’s the number one Destiel shipper - ex-fucking-SCUSE me?!? Destiel may be my favourite ship in the show, but Sam is my number one favourite character, and there is nothing that pisses me off more than people acting like he’s just a shipper for Destiel, or that he’s not as important as Dean and Cas, or that he’s just the “obnoxious enthusiastic straight ally!” Fuck all the way off with that. If the only reason that you love Sam is so that he can be a fucking cheerleader for your ship, then you don’t love Sam.

3. About “wincesties” (gag) hating Cas vs. “hellers” (gag) not hating Sam - Wincest shippers do not equal bronlies do not equal bibros. Bibros is a term from the very early days of this fandom, when “Sam-girl” and “Dean-girl” meant that you had chosen a side in the ship fandom war (funny, how the more the more things change, the more they stay the same…). Being a bibro was the alternative to that - bi, as in 2, as in 2 brothers, as in liking them both equally and not choosing a side.

Bro-only fans, or bronlies, was coined by a user here on tumblr whose name I honestly can’t remember (which is probably for the best)… I wanna say around season 7-season 8 ish? Right around the time when the fandom was at its biggest here. Bronlies are… exactly what it sounds like: they only care about the brothers. Bibros has become conflated with bronlies because a lot of newer fans or people who only know the tumblr fandom and not all the other corners of the web that the supernatural fandom has been in don’t know the difference.

And there’s plenty of Wincest shippers who like other characters, as well as other ships, and who aren’t shitty people, like you’re claiming that they are. Hi, I’m Kat! I think I mentioned that already! I’m one of those people! Not to mention there are a ton of bronlies who don’t really ship anything.

4. “you should unfollow them and search therapy to heal and fix that toxic mentality because it’s going to screw up all of your relationships.” I am genuinely so fucking sick of antis treating therapy like a gotcha. Therapy is good! It helps a lot of people! But this is about the most demeaning, belittling, mocking way of phrasing that. Not to mention one fucking line earlier you said “if you are not part of their group and don’t want to be associated with them - because who in their right mind would be.” Nice fucking casual ableism.

5. Back to the actual point of the original post - I have a major problem with the mentality of “the actor ““““confirmed”“““ on twitter that their character is queer.” For one thing, they don’t really have the authority to do that. They aren’t running the show, they aren’t writing the story, they’re just playing a part. Their interpretation of their character can be wildly different from what actually ended up on screen.

On top of that, I thought we all fucking agreed way back when that Joke Rowling making Dumbledore gay after the fact wasn’t good enough. How is this any different? How is a set photo, from behind the scenes, that was release after the episode aired, of Jack’s registration form, that shows he wrote in his gender as non-binary, remotely canon, considering that there’s never any actual discussion or conversation or what the fuck ever in the show about his gender identity?

Or how is Lisa Berry using all pronouns for Billie on a couple of twitter posts supposed to count as Billie being agender or whatever specific identity you want to headcanon, when she is only ever referred to with female pronouns on the show and there is no consideration in canon whatsoever in regards to her gender identity?

How the actual fuck is Mark Sheppard saying he headcanons Crowley as pansexual, and specifically said “I don’t think he cares [about gender]. He just likes making people uncomfortable.” considered canon? As a pansexual individual myself, that sure as hell makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, sure, the pan character is sexually aggressive and regularly makes sexually explicit comments and constantly comes on to people for the sole purpose of making them uncomfortable. Thanks, I feel so represented! 🙄 /s

But the oodles of queer Sam meta and analysis that this fandom has done doesn’t count as canon - not to mention Jared supporting it for years, which by your own metric should qualify? I know that you’ve made another post apologizing for this one, and I appreciate it, but it’s trying to put a band-aid over a bullet hole. The combination of the totally dismissive tone of this post, plus the fact that you apparently didn’t bother to look up whether people have seen Sam as queer, just makes that apology feel hollow.

is there a reason why sam isn’t included in the header for this?

we chose characters that were canonically lgbt! either in the show or in deleted scenes or as stated by the actors (,:

#not to be salty on main #but i'm salty on main #kat chats #spn #fandom #sam winchester #i generally try to stay out of wank and discourse #because i know that getting angry about stuff like this ultimately goes nowhere #but apparently i chose violence tonight #fuck purity culture #you can pry queer sam winchester from my cold dead hands

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tinkdw · 8 years ago

Text

The future - and it is showing us this loud and clear

This episode was amazing. After flailing and basically shouting all day I am so happy and so excited that I joined tumblr - the quality of posts today has been excellent, both humorous and inciteful and I LOVE YOU ALL :)

I hope its ok I’m going to tag a few great posts in this to reference as I don't want to go over stuff other people have already meta-d about so excellently!

This episode, titled the future, seems to me to be Dabb basically telling us what he wants for the next part of the show, the “better way” that he wants to take it.

So here are my main bullet points that I will expand on a little below and link those excellent posts to where relevant:

A. Sam

Sam is clearly portrayed again, recurrently as the researcher, the “brains” of the operation (before you say ‘Dean is so clever though!’ I’m just pointing out Sam’s love of the scholarly side of things and how this is where he fits). Sam’s endgame must now be to head up the MoL/hunter network in this respect.

B. Sam and Dean

They work so well as a team here, Sam putting a tracker in Cas’s phone while he’s distracted by Dean, researching v whatever Dean was doing (maybe making a pining mixtape along the lines of “all by myself” and “I miss you” “please come home”, BUT they are shown as different people, with different interests, skills and relationships - with Cas for example, & not codependent. Again hammering this home in this episode. THANK YOU DABB, GLYNN & BERENS.

C. THE RECURRING AND CONSISTENT NARRATIVE OF DESTIEL.

This whole episode is one big love fest. We went from one ‘wow I can't believe they just did that!’ to the next to the next with hardly enough time for us to catch out breath! WHAT WAS THIS EPISODE?!

OK, so we have :

1. My Romeo & Juliet / Gaze up Trope Balcony Meta.

2. The Mixtape Meta, another EXPLICIT romantic trope by @drsilverfish.

3. The Dean “keep it” parallels, the first one that came to my mind was Arwen (another human+ / eternal being who decided to relinquish immortality couple):

Aragon: this belongs to you. Arwen: keep it, it was a gift… it is mine to give to whom I will, like my heart.

But also all the other ‘gift’ tropes, the standard romantic trope that when a couple breaks up you return the gifts.... I think Cas wasn’t sure he was going to be forgiven, after Dean’s outburst in the war room, so he goes to return the cassette, but Dean does forgive him nearly instantaneously, which actually makes it even worse that he has to steal the colt straight after...

5. The difference between Sastiel and Destiel again emphasised, more and more this season. I don't think I even have to detail this, just, basically the whole episode shows this.

6. This magnificent gifset by @magnificent-winged-beast which shows the difference between Dean’s angst at actually watching the colt get destroyed and the potential killing of Cas...

Slight aside - Performing!Dean.

This magnificent gifset that shows Dean’s facade coming down, he doesn't even attempt to make it sound less ‘gay’ when he tells Sam that Cas came to his room, played him and took the colt from his secret hiding place under his pillow, he even looks down before he says it like he KNOWS how it is going to sound but says it anyway.

source: @yourfavoritedirector.

And Sam doesn't even flinch. YES THANK YOU DABB, GLYNN & BERENS!

4. SO...WHY is Dean still doing everything he did for Cas during this episode and still defending him to Sam even though he appeared pissed and Cas repeatedly betrayed him?

Well, in 12x12 Cas said “I love you”, clearly understood by Dean (and Sam to be directed at Dean). There was no real reciprocation though from Dean, other than Dean family-zoning him and Sam’s fantastic “we are doing this for you, Cas”.

So regarding Dean, Cas is hurt and believes it isn't reciprocated. Now Dean is pissed and still using the WE card at every turn, so what is a celestial being to do? Cas assumes this is the end, that there is no hope, he returns the mixed tape. BUT Dean says no keep it, this is NOT the end.

Cas understands that this is therefore not the end, but it is complicated. He explains that he wanted to “come back with a win for you.... for myself”. He wants this for Dean and for himself, this is very important, everything he is doing now and in the future is NOT all about Dean, there is his own agency and morality involved here too.

For Cas, when it comes to it, he wants this reciprocation of his love of course, but right now he has bigger fish to fry and really he wants to protect Sam and Dean and save the world.

Now, going back to the “what the hell is wrong with you man?” followed by an awkward silence.... and where Cas then goes to return the gift. Yes, Cas feels that he has said his piece in 12x12 and is rebuffed, but meanwhile Dean is struggling with what Cas has said and everything else that is going on. He has a lot on his plate, not only Cas but his own personal history, his deep seated issues that he is clearly working on this season (see all the performing!Dean facade crumbling meta going around), his issues around his mother, the BMoL, Lucifer, the nephilim.... I mean that is a lot for an emotionally healthy person let a lone DEAN WINCHESTER.

Dean is trying to say / show how he feels he’s just rubbish at it, but he's getting better!

“We?” “Yes dumbass, WE.” This is his forgiveness. And it is betrayed just moments later. But does this stop him trusting Cas again? NO.

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. For their dynamic, to show that they still do ultimately trust each other.

EVEN AFTER EVERYTHING DEAN STILL DEFENDS CAS TO SAM!

Oh, and I just need to add how desperate I am for Sam to turn to Dean soon and just say “No, Dean, this is between you and Cas, stop bringing me into this”. PLEASE I SWEAR I WILL BE GOOD! I mean, how repeated, consistent and out of place it was (I mean, not only to shippers, I think anyone would think it was out of place the way it was portrayed in their personal conversation in Dean’s room) - this has got to be addressed, no?!

5. A better way

So. What does this mean moving forwards?

Well, firstly, I have moved from being 85% sure Destiel would be endgame to about 95% sure. Lets be real. This episode cements this. Whether you like it or not, it’s happening.

So, what is the better way?

Overall, it seems that Dabb wants to move things forwards. And his key points all season are Free Will, breaking from past repressions and negative influences, moving forwards with what the characters choose and want for their endgame and for sure now endgame Destiel.

I have in the past speculated about quite a lot of stuff, some right and some... still to be seen and some not right, but the overall arc speculation that I saw foreshadowed since early season 12 is RIGHT ON TRACK.

Now, the question is will Dabb go backwards and go to the old, standard SPN ways where probably Dean and Cas will be separated, Cas will be wrong again in his trust in the nephilim - it WILL be evil (rehash of s6 and s8) and he will need to be ‘broken’ from the mind control by Dean in a stronger crypt scene etc etc etc.

Or will he move forwards, onto a “better way”? Will we get another s11 ‘happy ending’? Where it appears all good but there is still stuff going on behind the scenes for s13... Or maybe a not so happy ending but that ultimately will be resolved happily?

Maybe the baby has it’s grace removed (so glad this is an option it was driving me insane that they hadn't mentioned it by now!) OR it’s not evil at all! it’s the ANTI-anti-Christ, it chose Cas because he is Lucifer’s mirror in that he LOVES Humanity. I mean, the whole point of the show is agency, free will and not being forced to follow the result of your parentage / past ....especially this season with Sam and Dean’s arcs....

Maybe human!Cas, potential hunter Daddies, Cas staying at home calling Dean while he's out on MOTW hunts with Sam being all “Dean there’s poop everywhere, I’m sorry it got on your favourite shirt, but please please come home this is so hard!” “OK babe, don't worry, we’ll be back tomorrow, the case was a milk run!” when actually Dean nearly died and Sammy saved the day and.... etc because really? what are we supposed to think from that motel scene? With Cas smiling all cute and using the world “righteous” when talking about the kids future guardian?! (and Kelly survives if we are going to be extra nice).

Maybe Lucifer will die / be dealt with and it is the MoL that are the big bad next year.....aiding the overall future arc of TFW as leaders of the MoL/Hunter collaboration (Chuck I hope so).

Or will it be a mix of the two?

Well my money is on that it will be a mix....

DABB IS SHOWING US THE FUTURE Y’ALL. AND THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT.

#spn 12x19 #destiel #the future #supernatural speculation #supernatural meta #episode review #you're killing me 12x19

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orionsangel86 · 7 years ago

Note

1) Hey Saz, this is the person from Tink's long-ass 5-parter ask. This is going to be even longer. I'm on anon because of shyness above all things but I am willing to message you off anon if you want me to do so! I saw what you wrote about that ask and I agree.... to the most point. All the 'characteristics' of Destiel that differenciate it from other ships that you listed were actually applicable to some the ships I was talking about, especially Johnlock. -->

--> 2)The other ships, yes, you may be right, but for Johnlock I felt even more wronged intellectually when it crashed to the ground than I think I'll feel if the same thing happens to Destiel. I'm going to sound like a Johnlock shipping troll, but I'm not, I ran away from the mess of a fandom it became post-season 4. So bear with me. I really can't explain what my experience was at the time if you aren't familiar with tjlc and what the pre-season 4 sherlock fandom was like. -->

-->3)But let me assure you that it was extremely alike the spn/destiel fandom right now. I want to point out the similarities of the fandom and the ship but that would basically mean me explaining why Johnlock should have been canon, and I don't think you are here for that. So let me just point out a few things. By the end of the honest-to-god fanfic-y 3rd season, the GA were taking notice of it as well, to the point where, yes, the show is being called the worst queerbait ever even to this day.

--> 4)It frankly deserves it. And it was 2017.... we thought it was due fucking time. Guess it wasn't. When looking ay bibro blogs I can't help but be reminded of Johnlock antis. At least when that was a thing, you know, because you can't be an anti of something when it turns out you were right. We made fun of them, because how the fuck can you see jealousy at weddings, literally killing for the other the day they meet, -->

--> 5) having something secret to say that they can't bring themselves to say even after the other's death, being broken over the other's death TWO YEARS LATER AND ON THE DAY YOU FUCKING PROPOSE TO YOUR GF, prefering the other over your string of girlfriends, counting the texts a woman sent the other, COMING BACK TO LIFE AFTER LITERALLY FLATLINING BECAUSE THE OTHER IS IN DANGER, and, you know, constantly making both of them have shitty relationships and be unsatisfied romantically.... -->

.... and read it all as platonic? The show literally falls apart if you take away Johnlock... sounds familiar. You know, one of the writers for Sherlock is gay. So I believed in him, after all gay writers won't queerbait, how could they? (turns out they could.)......But I digress. I won't blame you if you just glossed over what I ranted above. Actually some of the reasons I'm still holding out hope for Destiel is 1) How atrocious the last season of Sherlock was, worst than Supernatral at its worst. 2) The sense that everything is coming full circle in this season(which we didn't get, btw, in even the last season of Sherlock). 3) Misha fucking Collins. And you know, although i heatedly ranted above in response to your response, I did it only because I wanted to justify what I spent near three years on. I didn't want to leave you thinking that a ship like this didn't exist before, because in my opinion, it did. So sorry. I was being spiteful.About the 'Greatest Love Stoty Ever Told', which was in fact the big fandom tagline for Johnlock as well....... I think I'll wait and see. If it is endgame, then I agree that it really is the greatest love story ever told. And I also agree that the show seems to be going that way

Hi Nonny,

So this is all in relation to this post and I think that the easiest way to answer this is to say to anyone still doubting, including nonny, to just read the various replies and reblogs on that post, because the answers are perfect.

Also nonny I know we have spoken in private already and you said that you were feeling better after reading the responses on that post as well so I won’t go into too much depth here, but I still wanted to post your asks in case there are still people out there feeling the way you do.

This is going to be my opinion on the matter, which, of course, is just that. There are many many people out there who were greatly upset by Sherlock and I feel for you all. Its not fair what happened and what that show put you through. Your feelings and your views on the matter are 100% valid and real and nothing that I say here is trying to contradict that. You saw a love story between those characters. That interpretation, like any interpretation of a text, is real and never let anyone say you were wrong. Johnlock still exists within the text of that show, just because it didn’t end with a kiss or a love confession doesn’t mean that it isn’t a valid reading.

I started watching Sherlock before I ever got into Supernatural. When it came out in 2010 I LOVED it. My film student lizard brain picked up on the Johnlock subtext pretty much straight away and aside from some very brief thoughts of “ooh that would be a different spin on it” I didn’t pay much more attention. I continued to watch Sherlock second season in 2012 and again I noticed the subtext, but at this point recognised that it was all done for humorous purposes. I never thought they would go there. I didn’t “ship” it because I didn’t even know what “shipping” was at the time let alone thought John and Sherlock were more than friends who happen to get mistaken for a couple. That was the gag. It was what made my very typically straight male young brother giggle like an idiot because apparently being mistaken for gay was funny. (It’s not. I hate those jokes. They don’t work outside a Carry On film and I don’t even like Carry On films).

When season 3 came out in Jan 2014 I side eyed the series because I had had enough of the gay jokes. I thought it was getting weird and could see that there was a beautiful bond between the characters that imo was being twisted for cheap laughs. I pondered on whether this Sherlock was in fact in the closet, Were they trying to tell us that he was secretly gay? I didn’t get it because it was never clear enough to me that this was the case and yet they continued to play around with the concept whilst the character of John is off with his fiance. My brother continued to find the whole thing hilarious. It was never taken seriously. My musings on Sherlocks sexuality were pushed aside because it seemed clear to me that the writers were not taking it seriously.

Then over the summer of 2014 I binge watched 9 seasons of SPN. I struggled with seasons 1 and 2, made it through 3, watched 4 and fell in love with an Angel of the Lord. It took me 10 episodes to figure out Cas was gay. It took me a further 2 seasons of umming and ahhing in my own head to conclude that yes, Dean was definitely Bisexual. It took until 6x20 to realise that this was legit something in the text and not my imagination. It took until season 8 for me to believe 100% that they were going there. (I wavered a bit on that belief in seasons 9 and 10 but season 11 pulled me back and I haven’t looked back since.)

In the early seasons, 4, 5 and 6, I recognised the patterns used between Dean and Cas were the same used in Sherlock. I re-watched Sherlock at some point in 2015 and remember thinking damn yeah they really were shoving the subtext in our faces a bit. But I still didn’t ship it, even though I was 100% shipping destiel at that point. I again pondered Sherlock’s sexuality, had a brief thought of “I’d like to see that take on the story” but again discarded any thought that it would actually be textual in a show that imo seemed adamant in keeping it all about the humour. If they weren’t going to take this characters sexuality seriously, then the story was never going to seriously be explored.

See if Destiel had always remained the way it was in seasons 4, 5 and 6, then I wouldn’t have any belief that it was going canon. I would probably still ship it (the sexual tension in season 4 was insane) but the idea that it would go canon would have always been a pipe dream. So many shows use the queer subtext as a source of humour. So many shows tease their characters as queer and use homoeroticism for titillation. It delights my idiot brother to no end. I hate it. I think it desperately needs to stop. I have never ever watched an episode of Sherlock and thought that it was doing anything other than just that. (I didn’t particularly like the 4th season though because nothing made any bloody sense and I think they kind of butchered the characterisations - I did say this would all be my opinion though so please don’t take offence).

You say that the show falls apart if you take away the romantic love story and make it platonic. I guess if I was to watch it again I could try to consider that reading, but my own experience watching seasons 1-3 is certainly not from a romantic view point and it all made sense to me. Season 4 didn’t make sense at all, and by the time that was on I was deep in destiel fandom and frequently writing meta, so I DID see the romantic reading in the text and yet still didn’t understand the story. (Again, I stress this is my opinion and is in no way trying to invalidate your own). However, with Destiel, the last three and a bit seasons narratively don’t work without it. I have tried to watch them and ignore every romantic moment, or hint at a romantic love between them, and in doing so, it confuses the fucking plot. I need to sit down and catalogue all the ways seasons 10 to 13 don’t work without destiel to evidence this but it would be a pretty epic job because there are ALOT.

I understand that you feel that Johnlock and Destiel are similar ships, but my opinion is that they drastically diverted course from each other when SPN went into its eighth season. Since then, there has been nothing quite like destiel in terms of build up and story structure - unless you start comparing it to the straight ships.

Where we are right now, destiel is deeply ingrained into the narrative of the show, and it is never used as a gag. It is never poked fun of in a way that reduces Dean and Cas’s relationship. Something that I believe Sherlock did right up until its last episode. I also 100% believe that the SPN creators and cast have a much greater respect and love for their fans than the Sherlock writers and cast ever did. (I’m not much of a fan of Bendydick Cucumberpatch and I have never been comfortable with Steve Moffat... dunno why the guy just gives me the creeps (then again so does Bob Singer)). They have been so positive towards Destiel recently that I am constantly stunned whenever new media or PR comes out. I am also of the belief that someone as wonderful as Misha Collins who is a champion for the LGBT community and cares deeply about making the world a better place would never ever involve himself in something that if it didn’t happen, would be considered the biggest queerbait in TV history. Breaking the hearts and severely angering millions of fans all over the world. Misha is a very smart man. He knows exactly how much this means to us and what it will do to us if it doesn’t happen. He doesn’t exactly look worried though. He doesn’t ever look like he is guilty over encouraging this ship? He looks like a fucker who knows whats up and can’t wait til we finally get to be in on the joke so he can tweet about it 24/7.

If destiel doesn’t happen, then Misha, of all people.... well... I’d have to rethink my entire opinion of him... the idea is so unfathomable for me, so impossible, it hurts my head to even consider. Did you ever feel this way about BC or Martin Freeman?

I just can’t believe that the people behind SPN would do that to us, but the people behind Sherlock? Well it didn’t exactly surprise me when it didn’t go canon. The BBC isn’t exactly known for being progressive. It’s known for playing it safe. If Sherlock was on Channel 4 I reckon they would have gone there. The Channel 4 execs probably would have encouraged it from the start. They would have considered it ‘edgy’.

I know that the CW isn’t exactly the most progressive network either, but its a young network, with a younger demo compared to the grumpy old pensioners who sit and watch BBC every night and complain that their tax payer money shouldn’t be going towards anything other than gardening shows and Eastenders. Soooo I think that has something to do with it too. The CW has a greater chance of pulling something like this off.

I’m so so sorry that Sherlock burned you. But don’t give up hope on destiel just yet, the factors are all currently in our favour. No two ships are alike, and in my opinion, Destiel is the motherfucking Symphony of the Seas compared to all others. It’s bigger, better, and hopefully, due for launch in Spring 2018.

#yeah i'm still on a cruise buzz #im sorry if i havent explained this well #but this is purely my opinion #destiel #johnlock #personal opinions #ask #anon #Anonymous

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mittensmorgul · 8 years ago

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5.17 and 5.18, or How does any of this make any sense whatsoever if you don’t “see the destiel?”

Short answer: It really doesn’t make sense whatsoever if you try and remove any of the destiel subtext. Like, zero sense.

Because there’s four (or five, if you count Adam, but he’s literally a plot device again and not an actual character... he is the red herring) things that Save Dean Winchester in these episodes:

the father-son love of Bobby

the sibling love of Sam

Lisa and Ben as the symbolic representation of Dean’s devotion to protecting all of humanity

(Adam the red herring that proves these other three ^^ because he DOESN’T fit any pattern and was never a real part of their family and actually flat-out rejects his ties to the Winchester family in favor of choosing his mother over them, even at the cost of selling out the rest of humanity to do so... he is literally the Anti-Winchester who Dean is willing to risk his own life to save ANYWAY)

And Cas. The absolute devotion of an angel who gave Dean everything, up to and including his life. Several times over. And whose heartbreak over Dean’s resignation to give in is one of the key things that gives Dean a reason to keep fighting, and the strength to deny Heaven’s plans for him at the last moment... and Dean hasn’t really wavered in that faith again since...

Okay, that said, I’m getting ahead of myself. Let’s get this party started, with:

5.17: a bunch of demons herd Sam and Dean to Crazytown

Also, 5.18, because it follows directly on from 5.17 thematically, and I couldn’t figure out a way to separate out the overlaps so I just sorta... kept writing :P

Because of that, under a cut because this is longer than most of my single episode posts:

ROB: I hate to tell you this, but those were demons and this is the Apocalypse. So…buckle up.

I mean, tell us something we don’t know...

PASTOR GIDEON: Who would have thought the Apocalypse could be so romantic? Marriage, family—it’s a blessing. Especially in times like this. So hold on to that.

everyone it town is getting hitched because there’s no time like the present to make things official than at the end of the world (where premarital sex has been declared a sin by a “prophet” who’s actually the Whore of Babylon)

Cas’s voicemail skills have come so far...

CASTIEL’S VOICEMAIL: You have reached the voicemail box of: CASTIEL: I don’t understand why, why do you want me to say my name CASTIEL presses random buttons.

After what Pamela said to Dean in 5.16, about maybe Heaven wasn’t such a bad place to go after all, and that maybe Dean didn’t have to keep fighting his destiny quite so hard because no matter how bad things got on Earth, even if millions of people died, they’d be coming to “a better place.”

DEAN: We’re all gonna die, Sam. In like a month—maybe two. I mean it. This is the end of the world, but these people aren’t freaking out. In fact they’re running to the exit in an orderly fashion. I don’t know that that’s such a bad thing. SAM: Who says they’re all gonna die? What ever happened to us saving them?

It’s gotten to Dean in a big way. He’s struggling with doubts about himself and his ability to fight off this huge destiny by himself, now knowing that even God doesn’t care and won’t help them, and by the end of this episode seeing even Cas give up and give in to the Bukowski fatalism... It’s almost like he’s getting to the point where he just wants it to end, where he’s being worn down by circumstances until he doesn’t even have the will to keep fighting anymore.

LEAH: Well, Dean…you’re chosen. DEAN Yeah, more like cursed. LEAH Must be hard. Being the Vessel of Heaven and having no hope.

(boy drinks red label Schultz beer and immediately is killed by a demon)

But all of this is being orchestrated by the Whore, to manipulate the people of the town into doing her bidding. She plays exactly into their desperation until they’re willing to do ANYTHING in her name, including murdering innocent children.

SAM: No drinking, no gambling, no premarital sex. Dean, they basically just outlawed ninety percent of your personality. DEAN: Yeah, well, whatever. When in Rome. SAM: So, uh…you’re cool with it? DEAN: I’m not cool. I’m not, not cool. I’m just, look man, I’m not a prophet. We’re not locals. It’s not my call.

Sam has a nice chat with the bartender who’s just been put out of business:

PAUL: Look, there’s sure as hell demons. And maybe there is a God. I don’t know. Fine. But I’m not a hypocrite. I never prayed before and I ain’t starting now. If I go to hell, I’m going honest. How ‘bout you? SAM: What about me? PAUL: Not a true believer, I take it. SAM : I believe, yeah. I do. I’m just. Pretty sure God stopped caring a long time ago.

Yeah, Sam’s got it on pretty good authority. But Sam refuses to quit fighting for it, even though Dean’s rapidly giving up here... Sam tells him the town’s shut off all communications with the outside world, isolating themselves in self-defense...

And all Dean can say is that he doesn’t care, that he and Sam were supposed to have been the ones to roll into town and save these people, but they just couldn’t do it. That maybe he’s lost the will to keep fighting.

SAM: No you can’t. You can’t do this to me. I got one thing, one thing, keeping me going. You think you’re the only one white-knuckling it here, Dean? I can’t count on anyone else. I can’t do this alone.

*Dean walks out in defiance of the town’s “curfew” and heads to the bar, where even Sam believes he’s going to get drunk, because that was what SAM had been doing, and said he would’ve stayed and KEPT drinking if it hadn’t been for the curfew in town. But like in 12.14 when Dean went out ostensibly to get a drink and returned to the bunker ENTIRELY SOBER, Dean has such a long history of this. Of telling Sam (or whoever’s nearby) that he’s going to drink... and then never drinks. Major Performing Dean here.*

While Dean’s out, Cas shows up. Poor drunk Cas...

CASTIEL : I got your message. It was long, your message. And I find the sound of your voice grating.

(pffft “long,” it’s 25 words and like half of them are filler words like “um” and “so.” really long. >.>)

But the Whore’s goal is corruption:

DEAN: So the demons smoking out—that’s just a con? Why? What’s the endgame? CASTIEL: What you just saw—innocent blood spilled in God’s name.

(sort of like the Righteous Man had to be corrupted to spill blood in Hell to break the first seal...)

CASTIEL: The whore can only be killed by a true Servant of Heaven. DEAN : Servant, like… CASTIEL: Not you. Or me. Sam, of course, is an abomination. We’ll have to find someone else.

But in the end, it was Dean who was able to kill her, because he was already losing his will to resist what was beginning to look like an inevitability. He’s been on a slow slide into resignation all season, going right back to 5.02 immediately after he learned about his “destiny” to be Michael’s vessel, where he gave Bobby his first “keep fighting until we go down swinging” sort of speech, and then turned around and told SAM it was a bunch of BS and that they probably didn’t have a chance to stop it all from happening anyway.

Michael insisting on that fact to his face in 5.13, learning how heaven had been arranging their lives since LONG before they were born in 5.14, rightly or wrongly believing Death himself was trying to take out Bobby and therefore one of Dean’s last remaining emotional supports in order to nudge Sam and Dean into saying yes, and then finally Cas being told by God himself that he just didn’t care one way or the other. I mean, when God himself tells you to give up, it’s kinda disheartening...

Dean gets to have his emotional bonding moment with Cas over their respective deadbeat dads, which is one of the things that will eventually save Dean... again.

And the townspeople, even after seeing the proof that their “prophet” had been the Whore, they’re lost, wondering how they’re supposed to get to the “paradise” she’d promised them now that she’s dead. They still don’t get that they’d damned themselves by trusting her in the first place...

SAM : Are you gonna do something stupid? DEAN Like what? SAM Like Michael stupid. DEAN Come on, Sam. Give me a break.

*Dean immediately leaves to go do something “Michael stupid”*

*after making a pit stop at Lisa’s*

DEAN: Look, I have no illusions, okay? I know the life that I live, I know how that’s gonna end for me. Whatever. I’m okay with that. But I wanted you to know…that when I do picture myself happy…it’s with you. And the kid.

Riiiiight... maybe “happy” isn’t the right word here? Maybe “peaceful,” but happy? A woman he’s spent a grand total of five days of his life with? She’s the anchor of normality in his otherwise horrifying and completely out-of-his-control life. But along with Sam (who Dean would do anything for to protect him from the crap), and Cas (who defied heaven over and over again for Dean and despite his own feelings of loss and abandonment by God will drag Dean bodily back into the fight yet again), and Bobby (who has only kept on fighting himself because of Dean’s will pushing him along), Lisa’s role here is not insignificant in turning the Apocalypse bus around. She’s one of the linchpins holding Dean together in a critical way.

She represents everything worth fighting for in humanity, the “civilians” all tucked up safe behind their white picket fences who just want to live their lives and never have to face down the devil...

DEAN : Whatever happens, you’re gonna be okay. LISA: What do you mean? What are you talking about? DEAN: The people that I’m gonna see next, they’re not gonna get anything from me without agreeing to a few conditions.

Lisa’s safety is one of those conditions, and it’s one of the details that gives Dean just enough time to kill Zachariah before Michael can come down and take possession of him.

But that’s the foundation of 5.18. Which is just about Dean’s lowest moment on the show to this point. He obviously reaches a few lower moments later (you don’t take on the Mark of Cain when you’re in a Happy Place...), but as far as his belief and trust in himself, this is possibly his most significant Moment Of Doubt ever.

SAM: No? So Michael’s not about to make you his Muppet? What the hell, man? This is how it ends? You just…walk out? DEAN: Yeah, I guess. SAM: How could you do that? DEAN: How could I? All you’ve ever done is run away. SAM: And I was wrong. Every single time I did.

Yet Dean still rejects the three people he’s closest to in the world. Sam, right there ^^, but he “brought help” in the form of Cas, who boops Dean back to Bobby’s and stops him from haring off after Michael. Next up is Bobby:

DEAN: Yeah, well, that’s easy for you to say. But if Lucifer burns this mother down, and I coulda done something about it, guess what? That’s on me. BOBBY: You can’t give up, son. DEAN: You’re not my father. And you ain’t in my shoes.

I can’t help but think back to 5.04 here, and Dean’s vision of the future-- what he was warned would be left of the world if he refused to say yes... and he’s starting to get more than a little scared that it’s coming true...

Lisa tried and failed convince Dean not to do whatever he’d had planned.

Bobby shakes him up a little more, pulling out the gun and bullet he intends to kill himself with and shouting Dean down:

BOBBY: Every morning, I look at it. I think, “Maybe today’s the day I flip the lights out.” But I don’t do it. I never do it. You know why? Because I promised you I wouldn’t give up!

Enter Adam, who Cas intercepts from the angels, talking about the deal he made with Zachariah to be Michael’s vessel and kill the devil... in exchange for getting to see his mom again...

CASTIEL: Maybe they're desperate. Maybe they wrongly assumed Dean would be brave enough to withstand them. DEAN: Alright, you know what? Blow me, Cas.

Meanwhile Adam has no reason to trust them at all, and it comes down to Sam to stand up for “Another Way.”

SAM: Now, Adam…the angels are lying to you. They're full of crap. ADAM: Yeah, I don't think so. SAM: Really. Why not? ADAM: Um, 'cause they're angels.

and...

BOBBY: You're still John's boy. ADAM: No, John Winchester was some guy who took me to a baseball game once a year. I don't have a dad. So we may be blood, but we are not family. My mom is my family. And if I do my job, I get to see her again. So no offense, but she's the one I give a rat's ass about, not you.

So much for all those happy family feelings that Ghoul Adam had talked about... that was never Adam at all, it was the GHOUL talking about his family feelings... for his ghoul family...

Adam asks about this big plan they’re working on to save the world:

heh.

First “blow me, Cas” and now, “Well, Cas, not for nothing, but the last person who looked at me like that…I got laid.”

This episode is a wild ride.

DEAN: I’m serious. I mean, think about how many people we've gotten killed, Sam. Mom, Dad, Jess, Jo, Ellen. Should I keep going? SAM: It’s not like we pulled the trigger. DEAN: We might as well have. I’m tired, man. I’m tired of fighting who I'm supposed to be.

But really, Dean... it’s not self-doubt... It’s the ghost of John Winchester and a lifetime of being told to watch out for Sammy, keep an eye on Sammy, if you can’t save Sammy you have to kill him...

DEAN: I just…I—I don’t believe. SAM: In what? DEAN: In you. I mean, I don’t. I don’t know whether it’s gonna be demon blood or some other demon chick or what, but…I do know they're gonna find a way to turn you. SAM: So you’re saying I’m not strong enough. DEAN: You’re angry, you’re self-righteous. Lucifer's gonna wear you to the prom, man. It's just a matter of time. SAM: Don't say that to me. Not you...of all people. DEAN: I don’t want to. But it’s the truth. And when Satan takes you over, there's got to be somebody there to fight him, and it ain't gonna be that kid. So, it's got to be me.

So Dean lures the ONE person he knows would do anything for him to the panic room where they’ve locked him up, and “blows him to Oz” so he can escape and give in to Michael...

So Cas shows up to the dude praying to Michael on Dean’s behalf, and boops him to the ground under a Heaven-coded Schultz sign as the camera pans left to reveal a great big El Sol sign (Deception! HAHA!) and in this episode specifically as the Deception of Heaven, that Heaven itself has deceived both Adam and Dean...

And honestly this is as close as Zachariah ever got to tricking Dean into saying yes... but Castiel hasn’t stopped believing in Dean:

CASTIEL: I rebelled for this?! So that you could surrender to them? DEAN: Cas! Please! CASTIEL: I gave everything for you. And this is what you give to me.

And here we have the key to everything Zachariah ever was:

ADAM: No…but what about the stuff that you said? I’m supposed to fight the devil. ZACHARIAH: Mmm, not so much. Hey, if it’s any consolation, you happen to be the illegitimate half-brother of the guy we do care about. That’s not bad, is it? ADAM: So you lied…about everything. ZACHARIAH: We didn’t lie. We just avoided certain truths to manipulate you.

And why Cas is so unconvinced by Ketch in 12.08. He knows how this tactic works ^^. But despite Dean’s utter lack of trust in Sam’s ability to keep saying no to the devil, Sam shows ABSOLUTE AND UNSHAKEABLE TRUST in Dean, even knowing how hopeless Dean’s feeling right now. And this? This is what saves the world.

SAM: And the place is crawling with mooks…Pretty much a no-shot-in-hell, hail-Mary kind of thing. DEAN: Ah, so the usual. What are you going to do? SAM: For starters…I’m bringing you with.

This is Sam’s moment of “redemption” for s4. For Ruby. For the demon blood. For trusting the demon over his own brother. He’s showing a sign of faith here, and atoning for every time he left and knows it was “the wrong thing to do.”

Heaven and Hell wanted to divide Sam and Dean, because this whole apocalypse thing falls apart if they don’t give in to their respective “sides.”

Combined with the challenge Cas issues Dean-- to do the Right Thing and choose to save the planet rather than letting it burn-- which is exactly how Dean got through to Cas in 4.22-- with the whole “if there was ever anything worth dying for, this is it” line. In 4.22 Dean had made it about saving the Earth, but Cas, right here, makes it about saving one man, about stopping Dean from saying yes.

DEAN: Whoa, wait. You’re gonna take on five angels? CASTIEL: Yes. DEAN: Isn’t that suicide? CASTIEL: Maybe it is. But then I won’t have to watch you fail. I’m sorry, Dean. I don’t have the same faith in you that Sam does.

“Failure” here isn’t the end of the world, isn’t the fulfillment of the apocalypse. FAILURE TO CAS IN THIS MOMENT IS DEAN BREAKING AND SAYING YES. PERIOD. FULL STOP. END OF STORY.

That Dean “Humanity” Winchester would surrender his free will.

That would be failure.

Because This is what Cas has given up everything he’s ever known, everything he ever was, in service to. He defied GOD for Dean. And he’s willing to sacrifice everything he has left to give Dean a chance to prove he’d done the right thing, that he’d made the right choice...

(I’ll hold them off, I’ll hold them all off...)

(Cas has made a habit out of this... 4.22, 5.18, 5.22, 6.20, 7.01, 7.23, s10, 12.12... and don’t even get me STARTED on all the crypt scene stuff... need I refer y’all to lizbob’s incredible diagram?)

DEAN: Do you hear me? Call Michael down, you bastard! ZACHARIAH: How do I know you’re not lying? DEAN: Do I look like I’m lying?

(I love Dean’s belief that everyone can sense lies the same way he can)

ZACHARIAH: Michael’s not gonna kill me. DEAN: Maybe not. But I am.

(I know, I know... I just love everything about that... that’s the moment Dean reclaims his Free Will once and for all, and damn it makes me so damn happy okay)

So Dean managed to escape with Sam, but Adam wasn’t so lucky. Who knows, Michael probably offered him that peace he’d been seeking, that trip to heaven to see his mom, and he said yes. Because if Adam hadn’t consented in that moment, Michael wouldn’t have been able to take him, you know? That was it. That was Adam’s last moment on Earth.

DEAN: Just...let me say this. I don't know if it's being a big brother or what, but to me, you've always been this snot-nosed kid that I've had to keep on the straight and narrow. I think we both know that that's not you anymore. I mean, hell, if you're grown-up enough to find faith in me…the least I can do is return the favor. So screw destiny, right in the face. I say we take the fight to them, and do it our way.

And that’s what they do...

#spn 5.17 #s12 meta rewatch #spn 5.18 #spn 12.14 #performing dean #seriously though why doesn't everyone just trust dean's gut instincts it's like he's got an uncanny magical gift here...#the scheherazade of supernatural #el sol #schultz the beer of death and debt #all my tags for zachariah somehow involve the fact that dean stabbed him in the face pffft #castiel winchester

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go-diane-winchester · 6 years ago

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Sam has no right to be called Jack's father apparently

It is my tagging policy never to tag anything in the anti tags, because headcanons, like the Dr Sexy one, ends up becoming a stupid con question. And when Jensen fittingly answers that destiel doesn't exist, he called a homophobic so loudly, that mass media hears the accusation. Not to mention the various threats that hellers throw at J2. Now I have no problems with headcanons, as long as you keep it in your sandbox, labelled correctly as a headcanon and don't convince other people that it is true. Look at the tagging on this monstrosity that an awesome person directed me to.

It was written by someone called @sassycaslovesdean who wrote the post ''Destiel is canon already''. And this is how she tags it. Kindly excuse my highlighting efforts. I am getting vintage. All the tags that are highlighted should not be attached to this post because they have nothing to do with this post. Even Castiel is a general tag. Destiel fans don't have a monopoly to it, in fact some Cas fans hate destiel. I am uncertain about supernatural and unhuman nature, but if I was a destiel shipper who was not looking for trouble, I would have tagged this big bucket of delusion as #destiel #headcanon. That's it. Nothing else is needed.

Of course, disgruntled people told @sassycaslovesdean about her tagging, so it isn't like she doesn't know. She knows. She just doesn't care. What a coincidence. Neither do I.

One person, and I absolutely chuckled about this, simply said:

Before proceeding to tell the OP off about her delusion. I don't blame that person at all. In fact, I am inspired to follow suit. @sassycaslovesdean, I will never tell you how to tag. I will carry on tagging the way I deem fit because clearly I am not the only one doing that. Since you put this stupid post in the public domain, I guess that is an invitation to tear it apart. Invitation accepted.

The first word Jack said was Father. And he said it to the first human he ever saw. And that was Sam. Cas died for no reason, woke up in the Empty, irritated the entity who lived there and got flung back to Earth. That entire storyline was useless and didn't add anything to the seminal storyline. It also took away from Crowley's sacrifice. Cas had no reason to die. And he had no reason to come back because there is literally nothing for him to do in the script. If you remove him, nothing will change in the script or in Jack's life. The reason Jack assumed that Castiel was his father, was because Kelly made that decision for him. She probably assumed that this tough angel wont be stupid enough to get himself killed the minute her baby is born. He didn't choose Castiel. He and Sam chose each other. Castiel was dumped on him. I guess the same way Castiel is dumped on the Winchesters and the rest of us. And Castiel is more like a babysitter. Sam leaves Jack in Cas's pointless company whenever he goes away.

Really? Is something wrong with your eyes? Because I know Sam was freaking out from the bunker all the way to hospital. Dean and the babysitter stood there while Sam fretted. Dean is more like an uncle. Uncles do cool stuff with their nephews like take them fishing and on road trips. He had never nurtured Jack. Neither has Castiel. Sam, and only Sam, has done that. Every single time Dean and Cas are in the frame, the director is not sending you secret subtexts. They are just in the same frame. That's it. There is no secret destiel subtexts coming to you through props, camera angles, and blocking. You are embarrassing yourself.

There is only one ''I love you'' in canon. The one that was excluded was Jensen's decision. He didn't want to say I love you to Castiel. Canon counts. Scripts don't. The only reason why you know about the deleted ''I love you'', is because Misha told you, even though he was instructed not to. And Jensen got abused for it on the internet. But Misha is totes a true friend, right? Profound bond is angel-speak for best friend. For someone who likes the character, you don't know much about him. He doesn't speak like normal people. Profound bond is not proof of canon destiel.

Dean and Cas are NOT raising a child together. They don't even have that much screen time together, something that Jensen confessed to enjoying. Dean only recently started to bond with the boy, whom he initially wanted to kill. I don't blame him. Jack is a spawn of satan and Dean reacted the way I expected him to. It gels with his character. Of course, hellers who had already cooked up the ''Dean and Cas are going to raise a baby together'' delusion in their goldfish brains, were very angry that Dean was not being all Papa Bear, and [wait for it] wanted him off the show. I saw the outbursts on Wayward Winchester's YouTube channel.

When Sam died, Jack yelled at Cas to bring him back. Jack didn't want to lose his father. When Luci pit father and son against each other, Jack was willing to kill himself rather than hurt his father. And he said ''I love you'' before he could kill himself. Are you blind? Did you not see that? You know how I know he said I love you. Its in the canon. That is how I know. And Luci refered to Sam as ''daddy Sammy''. Nobody contradicted him. Are you deaf? Did you not hear that?

Anytime anyone has plans for Jack, they ask for Sam's permission. Even Dean follows that unspoken rule. That is the decent thing to do. You ask for a father's permission before going anywhere near his kid. Especially a father like Sam who will kill you on the top if you go anywhere near his son without his permission. When Jack dreams, its about Sam and Dean, not about Cas. Maybe that is why he said ''You did the same thing with your father'' when referring to Dean going fishing with John. Maybe Jack wants Sam AND Dean to be his fathers. That's why he dreams about them. And NOT Cas.

Cas is excluded because Cas is not even an afterthought. He is an obligation Mommy dumped on Jack. And a very pointless one at that. And Alex sharing a resemblance with Misha is subtext? Don't be stupid. Alex looks like Leonardo DiCaprio's Jack Dawson too. Does that mean, Dawson is going to make an appearance on Supernatural covered in ice, claiming parental rights over Jack? I know that sounds stupid, but so does your meta. That was the face the poor kid was born with. Leave him alone, silly heller. Stop reminding the poor child. Because Misha does that already. Imagine telling a child ''I think your mother slept with me.'' Yes, that is so funny. That is not crossing any lines of decency at all. Alex's father must love this guy.

Thanks to all the people who inadvertently contributed to this posts by lashing out at the heller. You guys reminded me of many things.

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mittensmorgul · 8 years ago

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5.16: *cue horrifying yet somehow disturbingly humorous montage of all of Sam and Dean’s deaths to this point* *shakes fist at 3.11 and 4.08*

Yep, this is another one of those episodes I have really already covered, and recently, in multiple posts on s12... *waves hello at Dabb again* *gee I wonder why this episode has had so much relevance in s12? we may never know >.>*

Heaven, the Samulet, Joshua, the incredibly squicky idea that John and Mary were “soul mates” based on the gross cupid touch making them into the “perfect couple” because they weren’t “perfect” until after Mary was dead, Dean and Sam’s VASTLY DIFFERENT notions of “happy memories” and the fact their heavens are sort of each other’s version of hell (i.e. Sam and Dean are not soul mates, they are absolutely repulsed by each other’s heavens), the fact that Heaven is a construct that we apply our own personalities and experiences to in order to perceive it:

*again under a cut, because wtf is wrong with me, I keep saying “I have already talked this into the ground” about every episode, but apparently I’m trying to talk it straight through to the other side of the planet. I suspect I’ll be bobbing up in the Indian Ocean any minute now*

This is why, once Dean “broke out of his heaven” and set out on the Axis Mundi to find Sam’s heaven, it didn’t look like a pristine white corridor the way Heaven seems to look to the angels (or just in s10 and later, or whatever).

Castiel: Some people see a tunnel or a river. What do you see? Dean: Nothing. My dash. I’m in my car. I’m on a road. Castiel: Alright. A road. For you it’s a road. Follow it, Dean. You’ll find Sam. Follow the road.

Because we were seeing Heaven from Dean’s perspective here, we also saw the road. But he had Cas to give him the secret hack on how to get out of his heaven to find Sam’s heaven.

Ash later underscores this, and strangely 10.17 proves him out. We saw “Bobby Singer” land (like Ash described “Winchester Land” as a section of heaven. We saw ALL the Bobby Singers grouped together in one long corridor. Not ONE BIG HEAVEN COMPARTMENT. All those Bobby’s were NOT soul mates.

Okay? Okay.

I think I’ve seriously talked plenty about this episode. Have my tag for it if you’re interested in the metaphysical nitty-gritty of it,

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/tagged/spn%205.16

or my tag for Heaven stuff (and all the other realms) heaven hell purgatory and the empty

Dean actually didn’t wake up when someone sneaked right up to his bed and stole his gun out from under his pillow? Incredible. But hey, at least he woke up quick and figured out what was going on before Roy and Walt shot him and Sam...

Seriously one of my favorite Dean lines in the entire series, because Roy and Walt think it’s bravado, but Dean 100% ain’t kidding here:

Roy: Killin’ Sam was right but Dean... Walt: He made us and we just snuffed his brother, you idiot. You want to spend the rest of your life knowing Dean Winchester’s on your ass, ‘cause I don’t. Shoot 'im. Dean: Go ahead, Roy, do it. But I’m going to warn you, when I come back I’m going to be pissed. C’mon! Let’s get this show on the road.

Just like Charlie thought she was “dreaming” in 9.04 when she was dead in and heaven, Dean thinks he’s dreaming here now...

Until something “breaks through” his dream in a traumatic way, trying to get his attention and alerting him to the fact that no, he is definitely not dreaming. Cas “disrupts” Dean’s memory with a reminder of his own death and then tries to communicate with him on the radio.

Dean: I’m dead. Cas: Condolences.

and then when he realizes:

DEAN: Heaven? How did I get to heaven? CASTIEL: (on radio) Please, listen. This spell, this connection, it’s difficult to maintain. DEAN: Wait. If I’m in heaven, then where’s Sam?

NOT because he assumed Sam would be in his personal heaven with him, because HE WAS TERRIFIED THAT SAM DIDN’T GO TO HEAVEN AT ALL. I mean, just two episodes ago he was detoxing Sam off the demon blood again and watching Sam control demons enough to kill the Horseman Famine. I mean... >.>

(Dean was terrified that Sam was actually in Hell here, not wibbly over Sam not being WITH HIM)

Meanwhile Sam is experiencing Awkward Thanksgiving with Complete Strangers, and has no idea he’s dead or in heaven, because Cas wasn’t able to connect to Sam the way he did to Dean to pass that info along... hmmmm

Dean was then able to “Call” Cas through the tv, but as the transcript describes the connection:

“Dean and Sam move over to the TV. They can see Castiel but the picture rolls and is filled with static. His voice fades in and out and is sometimes distorted.”

He heard Dean “praying” to him, but his connection isn’t as solid as it was in Dean’s actual Heaven.

I’m not actually making any real s12 meta points here, just riffing on all the destiel-y bits because it’s late and the rewatch is actually cutting into my nightly writing time now... I should probably try to stay on point and just get to the point here...

Cas thinks he’s got a couple of “Inside Men” who can get information for him that can only be obtained in heaven... which heck sounds an awful lot like 10.17, called Inside Man... I wonder why... Oh, right, it was also written by Andrew Dabb. What a coincidence.

CASTIEL: (on TV) It’s called the Axis Mundi. It’s a path that runs through heaven. Different people see it as different things. For you, it’s two-lane asphalt. The road will lead you to the Garden. You’ll find Joshua there. And Joshua… can take us to God. (The pictures starts to break up badly.) The Garden. Quick. Hurry.

The Road, that Dean drove on to reach Sam’s heaven. It’s ENTIRELY METAPHORICAL, because Heaven is a construct. And Zachariah is officially messing with Sam and Dean.

SAM: Dean. What are you doing? DEAN: Looking for a road. SAM: You… (Dean opens the closet under the stairs) You think the road is in a closet? DEAN: (turns on the light) We’re in heaven, Sam, okay? I mean, our memories are coming true. Cas is on TV. Finding a road in a closet would be pretty much the most (he sees something on the floor) normal thing to happen to us today.

(Dean finds the road in the closet)

And we’ve talked this scene to death recently as well, now that Mary’s back.

Sam is FREAKING MISERABLE watching Dean and Mary interact as if he didn’t even exist, Mary cutting the crusts off his sandwich and giving him pie, but even one of Dean’s “greatest hits” memories includes the fact that Mary and John were fighting, because he got to care for Mary and tell her she was loved, that he loved her.

And that’s it, the only time in canon Dean has ever said “I love you” to anyone.

SAM: I just never realized how long you’ve been cleaning up Dad’s messes.

And speaking of messes that Dean had to clean up, Sam finds the next “road,” on a post card.

Sam is GIDDY to find his dog from when he ran away, and DEAN IS FREAKING MISERABLE.

*HEAVILY IMPLIED THAT DEAN IS STILL HIDING JUST HOW AWFUL THINGS WERE FOR HIM WHEN “DAD CAME HOME” AND FOUND SAM GONE HERE*

Dean walks out the door of the trailer, while they are STILL IN SAM’S HEAVEN, because they haven’t yet found another “road,” and walks straight into what Dean considers one of the worst nights of his life, and Sam considers one of the best...

SAM: Dean, I’m sorry. I just, uh… DEAN: I know. You didn’t, you didn’t think of it like that. SAM: Dean! DEAN: C’mon! Your heaven is somebody else’s Thanksgiving. Okay. It’s bailing on your family. What do you want me to say? SAM: Man, I never got the crusts cut off my PB & J. I just don’t look at family the way you do.

And then we see how Ash hacked heaven.

ASH: See, you gotta stop thinking of heaven as one place. It’s more like a butt-load of places all crammed together. Like Disneyland except without all the anti-Semitism.

...

ASH: Pretty much. A few people share—special cases. What not. DEAN: What do you mean ‘special’? ASH: Aw, you know. Like, uh, soul-mates. (Silence greets his statement. Dean and Sam don’t look at each other.) Anyway. Most people can’t leave their own private Idaho’s. DEAN: But you ain’t most people.

Yet Ash found Sam and Dean together... and he made some assumptions. He didn’t know that Cas had been giving Dean the “ain’t most people” cheat codes to Heaven.

But Zachariah’s already got Sam and Dean trapped:

MARY: Honey. Why are you up? DEAN: Look. I’m-I’m sorry. I love you but you’re not real and we don’t have time— MARY: Did you have another nightmare? Tell me. DEAN: I gotta go. MARY: Then how 'bout I tell you my nightmare, Dean? The night I burned. ... MARY: Don’t you walk away from me. (Dean stops) I never loved you. You were my burden. I was shackled to you. Look what it got me. (She blinks and her eyes turn yellow.)

And about this point Dean and Sam both realize that Heaven can be just as good at torture as Hell can...

MARY: And then, finally, I was dead. The one silver lining was that at least I was away from you. (She takes a big breath.) Everybody leaves you, Dean. You noticed? Mommy. Daddy. Even Sam.

But that is NOT THE REAL MARY. That’s not even her ghost or spirit or soul or whatever. Zachariah calls it a “Blessed Memory” of her, and honestly that’s pretty much what Dean has always thought of his memories of Mary.

They finally meet Joshua and arrive at the garden, where we learn that God talks to Joshua, but it’s really only a one sided conversation. It wasn’t until 11.20 when Metatron was allowed to talk BACK to God (and I mean that in the sense that he back-talked at God) and push him to accept his responsibility for EVERYTHING, and it STILL took three more episodes after that before he finally acted on it at the 11th hour and because of Dean’s direct influence on both him and Amara:

JOSHUA: He knows what the angels are doing. He knows that the Apocalypse has begun. He just doesn’t think it’s his problem. DEAN: (stunned) Not his problem? JOSHUA: God saved you already. He put you on that plane. He brought back Castiel. He granted you salvation in heaven (he turns to face Sam directly) and after everything you’ve done too. It’s more than he’s intervened in a long time. He’s finished. Magic amulet or not, you won’t be able to find him.

And back to the “magic amulet.”

Proof to Dean about his own “deadbeat dad” from way back in 3.09, and now proof to Cas about his “deadbeat dad” in 5.16. And that was just one deadbeat dad too many for Dean. When he first gave Cas the amulet in 5.02, he warned Cas not to lose it, and then asked for it back later... but now,

Dean’s first act on reviving from being dead is to call Cas. And he has to watch Cas’s moment where his faith in God breaks completely, and he returns the amulet and disappears...

Sam is still talking about finding another way to end all of this, but Dean’s losing his faith in himself, and throws the amulet in the trash...

Now in s12, Dean does have faith in himself again. He doesn’t doubt his instincts anymore. He’s not dealing with things so far above his pay grade that he can’t even get straight answers and is getting dragging around by the nose by middle management angels.

God has made Dean pancakes and told him he and Sam can take care of Humanity now... (with Cas’s help of course, because God keeps bringing Cas back for them).

The one thing Dean has to reclaim for himself is Mary. She’s absolutely not this warped Torture Hallucination Version that Zachariah presented him with, but she’s also not just that “Blessed Memory” version that Dean had presented himself... Nor are Sam and Dean the little boys that she thinks she remembers from her own version of Heaven. They’re just as fake as Dean’s childhood memory of Mary was in his heaven.

And to continue this already ridiculously long rant with more from the continuing series of Chats With Lizbob:

mittensmorgul maybe dean will tell mary what heaven's really like, since she's got this weird idea her whole family was there with her... he needs to set her straight, tell her that NONE of them actually share a heaven because he and sam have been there that it's just your memories and not real

elizabethrobertajones yeah, I can almost hear that - "It's not real Mary, WE are£

mittensmorgul: that PEOPLE are real, that the Dean and Sam on earth here with her are real. Heaven was just memories

(I love that there’s an accidental typo of a pound symbol there, like a random reminder I’m talking to a British Person, in case I was forgetting to read Lizbob’s parts in an English accent...)

mittensmorgul well, she's already brought up heaven twice, once saying she didn't remember it, the next saying she was there with John and her little boys, and now I think she needs to hear the truth

elizabethrobertajones DOROTHY Dream? Charlie, you died. Don't worry about it, though. You're not a real hunter until you've died and come back again. CHARLIE Slow down. Why would you think I died? DOROTHY Heaven -- it's your dream life.

Because as much as Mary knows, I’m not sure she really understands all of this yet. And I think she really needs to in order to be able to finally let go of the past, for better or worse.

Okay, now I have officially used up more than an hour of my writing time on this episode I’m gonna go see if I can’t write some fic instead. :P

#spn 5.16 #spn 12.15 #spn 12.18 #spn 12.19 #spn 12.01 #spn 12.02 #heaven hell purgatory and the empty #the scheherazade of supernatural #spn 11.20 #if you say 'mysterious ways' so help me i will kick your ass #face your past head-on and FIND ANOTHER WAY a BETTER WAY #spn 9.04

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