#i know this isn’t quite on the same analysis level as the other post

[umbrify]

i have indeed found that you do timestamps for all your meta and i am utterly delighted by this. since i do very much want to know more of your jimmy thoughts, can i ask about what you think of him in season 1 specifically? (you're free to pick whatever subtopic to discuss here that you like, but i'm especially curious what you find most compelling about his relationship with fwhip and how that compares to what they're like in season 2?)

Oh gosh— uh, y’know, you’ve picked an area of Jimmy here that I’m much less knowledgeable in. I’m still in the process of watching season one back— I only got into empires at the start of season two— and I don’t know enough to really have super informed analysis on e1 Jimmy.

I’ll give you some thoughts anyway, based on what I know, but I can’t really do my usual timestamps for this one. Take this more as my general musing about these characters, based on what I know, instead of making some sort of proper point here. Does that make sense?

I will say, I find it fascinating how his character seemed to have turned out so differently in season one. The Codfather seems a lot more… confident? Supported? He’s got people in his corner, and he basically always did. He seems to have that same sort of demand for respect— how he demands people be sacrificed before they can join his alliance— yet… people do it? People will make that sacrifice for him, and they’ll give him that undying loyalty, and I just have to wonder like… what’s different here? It’s the same core character trait, and yet the end result is wildly different. He’s very much a character shaped by his environment.

A friend and I, in our process to understand more about some empires characters, have been looking for their… narrative through line, so to speak. The core trait that these characters carry across seasons. We have them for fWhip and Scott, but we’ve been struggling with Jimmy. What is his core trait, if he even has one? He seems to have one, but I’m just not quite sure what it is. It seems like the difference between e1 and e2 Jimmy, is that e1 Jimmy had the support that e2 Jimmy craved. Yet, I feel like e2 Jimmy did a lot more… shoving people away. But, I can’t say for sure. The differences are interesting to me, need to study e1 Jimmy more.

As for him and fWhip, god they are so much. Jimmy starts it both times, though in season one, he started it with Sausage first, which, I can’t find the exact moment in episode this happened— I didn’t take notes on season one— but I have found an instance of Sausage mentioning that Jimmy stole from him first: Sausage season one episode 14, 8:24. Jimmy insists that Sausage said it was okay, but he says that Jimmy took more than they agreed. This initial conflict with Mythland is what eventually led to the trench being created between Mythland and the Codlands, which is what set the WRA against the Cod Alliance.

But, the point is, that Jimmy and fWhip were never able to be friends. They were neutral at best before the Cod Wars, and then they were enemies up until almost the very end. And when they finally, finally started being friendly again, well.

“The resolution of a neverending feud will cause unimaginable chaos that will destroy the world.”

A destiny told in the stars themselves. These two could never be meaningful friends. fWhip and Jimmy, trying to right past wrongs and reforge the Codfather head, it destroyed the world.

It wasn’t their fault. It was never their fault. How could they have known? There’s no way they could’ve known. Yet, the universe was destined to rip them apart before they could ever be something. Before they could ever be any more than enemies.

Isn’t that just so much? Destined to always be on the fringes of each other’s spheres, destined to be forever enemies, forever apart. Even in season two, their friendship was short lived, torn apart.

And the universe said you are alone. And the universe said you are separate from every other thing.

I think about them a lot.

[kikokus]

Lucci and Kaku: An Analysis

I haven’t done long analysis/meta/essay-style posts in a while, but after seeing a comment that amounted to “every time Lucci’s shown an interest in something that doesn’t have to do with killing, Kaku’s involved” it made me think about whether or not that's true and, more specifically, whether or not there’s been sufficient build-up to justify what happens in Chapter 1111.

So let’s explore, shall we?

First of all, basic disclaimer that I’ve been heavily into One Piece since 2008 and Water 7 has been my favorite arc since the first time I read it that summer. Kaku, in turn, has always been one of my top characters in the entire series for various reasons…but this isn’t about him (at least, not entirely), so all of that is just to say that I’ve thought about these characters a lot over the years.

And I think what always struck me about them is that not only are they so fundamentally different, but that realistically Lucci should not tolerate Kaku at all. He’s pretty much everything Lucci’s not, and they’re more-or-less a perfect example of the ‘someone will die…of fun!’ meme in a lot of ways (and honestly it’s what I think of every time I see this card, but I digress):

At the same time, what happened in the latest chapter didn’t surprise me, because there’s been hints all along, and I’ve personally been waiting years for it to pay off…even though part of me thought it never would, or at least not in the way it did!

Still, how did we get here?

But First, A Bit About 相棒

So. Why is the fact that Lucci calls Kaku his “相棒” (aibou) so significant? Mostly because of the…individualistic meaning of the word. It literally translates to ‘partner’, but not in a romantic/life-partner way (not to say that it has never been used like that, but it’s not the inherent meaning of the word).

Unlike words such as 友人 (yuujin), 友達 (tomodachi), and of course, with Luffy, 仲間 (nakama), aibou generally only refers to one person. You can have many friends, teammates, crew members…but only one aibou. So by calling Kaku that, Lucci’s already placing him on a different level to anyone else in CP9 or CP0 and acknowledging openly that Kaku’s important enough to him to have earned that distinction.

Which is why a lot of us were very excited about it, since this is not a common occurrence where Lucci’s concerned.

That aside, let’s get to the actual canon content.

Water 7

Obviously at the beginning we find out they both work at the shipyard, but that in and of itself isn’t entirely significant…until you consider that, since Kalifa is pretty much with Iceburg all the time and Blueno’s running the bar, the two of them are working in much closer proximity to each other than to the other CP9 members in the city. 

The first real indication we get regarding their comfort level with each other comes in chapter 327 when Kaku gets back from examining the Merry and goes to sit down to explain what he’s discovered. Paulie’s the closest to him, but he actually ends up stepping past both him and Lucci in order to sit directly beside Lucci on the same level.

It’s quite a while before we see the two of them alone again, and it doesn’t happen until chapter 339 when they’re speaking with Robin. Of course at the time we’re not supposed to know it’s them, but there’s really nobody else it can be since this is happening at the exact same time that Blueno’s talking with Franky and Kokoro at the bar. So, as will become fairly common, the two of them are again acting as a unit of their own within the larger group.

And then, of course, we get the infiltration of the mansion prior to The Big Reveal (which I’ve spoken about before because for me it’s still the single greatest reveal in the entire manga because of how carefully crafted it is, right down to Kaku’s limited dialogue in this section being completely devoid of his usual speech quirks in the original Japanese text). Once again, Blueno and Kalifa are doing their own things while these two are working together.

This panel has always been interesting to me because immediately prior to this Lucci says he can’t let Paulie live, and then he decides to just restrain him instead. In Luffy’s case it makes sense because they gave their word to Robin not to harm the Strawhats, but he has absolutely no reason to spare Paulie, and the little lines of shock/surprise beside Kaku imply that he hadn’t expected Lucci to do that, either. The ‘why’ is still unclear, but it’s interesting nonetheless, and it’s also…noteworthy that it’s the only thing Lucci asks Kaku to do. All of the actual damage Paulie takes comes from Lucci and he never asks for or expects Kaku to harm him.

I never connected these two panels before but it’s obviously very deliberate to have Lucci telling Iceburg that feeling emotions is a sign of humanity followed immediately by Kaku…demonstrating exactly that and thanking Iceburg. It’s important to establish that part of Kaku’s character, but keep in mind Lucci’s lack of a reaction here because it’ll come back later.

Again, very tiny moment, but there’s a lot of examples of Lucci deferring to Kaku or letting him take the lead without any hesitation, and I like this because Kaku’s noticed something that Lucci hasn’t and Lucci just goes with it immediately.

I’d forgotten about this but Kaku’s also the one that decides to take Usopp with them, first by recognizing him as one of the Strawhats and then going through with it even after finding out he doesn’t consider himself a part of them anymore. And Lucci just…stands back and lets him give out orders to the others while doing so.

Okay so this is what I was referencing earlier. Kaku shows actual emotions with Iceburg and Lucci’s silent, but the moment Kalifa gets even slightly happy about completing the mission he’s berating her instantly. Kaku’s expression here is interesting too because he looks absolutely haunted and it’s very telling.

And also another visual representation of Lucci and Kaku being equal to/on the same level as each other.

I didn’t include the panel but Kaku was ‘sleeping’ when Corgi was giving them all of the information about Nero while Lucci was (seemingly) wide awake, and yet Lucci has no idea who he is and relies on Kaku to have all the information. Which he does.

Kaku being the one to take charge again and direct the others even though Lucci’s standing right there. They do this more than I’d realized at first, especially since Lucci always seems to be looked at as the unofficial ‘leader’ of CP9.

Enies Lobby

We’ve made it to Enies Lobby, which is the first glimpse we get of these two interacting with the full CP9 group outside of any sort of ‘mission’ environment.

Mostly it entails Lucci being more combative (especially with Jabra) and Kaku being more annoyed, but again I can’t really imagine anyone else taking this tone with Lucci and getting away with it while Kaku does it fairly often and Lucci never retorts or gets angry with him.

And while Kaku’s not immune to taking Jabra’s bait in the right circumstances, his typical tendency is to de-escalate situations if he can and here he’s refusing to engage despite being deliberately called out…and Lucci, without being asked, immediately takes his side and defends his choice.

This is practically the next panel and while both Lucci and Jabra are kind of equally at fault for this little display, Kaku only berates Jabra for it while Kalifa’s directing her comments at both of them.

Now that I’m actually looking for these sorts of things it’s becoming more obvious, but again we have Lucci and Kaku in an equal position to each other at the front of CP9.

This isn’t just to Kaku since Kalifa’s there as well, but Lucci’s still encouraging them to eat the fruits and I have to believe it’s coming from a place of good faith because he’d know whether or not being able to swim is that big an issue in their profession. I also want to note that Kaku echoes Lucci’s ‘it’ll be fun’ line when he actually does eat his fruit, so obviously that resonated with him.

I’ve put these two together because they both highlight the same thing, that being in both of these sequences we get almost all of CP9 giving out their individual thoughts/comments on what’s happening but Kaku’s statement both times is a direct reply to what Lucci says, so again the two of them are paired off in a way that doesn’t include anyone else there. 

The only other thing of note in this section is that while Robin’s talking about what happened during the Buster Call on Ohara, Kaku and Lucci are the only CP9 members to kind of…break formation and actually look at her while she’s speaking, which is interesting.

And for the rest of Enies Lobby they aren’t together so there’s not too much more to say here other than Kaku of course being the one to have the actual key to Robin’s cuffs, but it’s never made explicit who came up with that plan or handed out the keys so…if I ever actually do the thing and write a full analysis of Kaku’s character we can talk about it then Lark you’ve been saying you’ll do this for years IF I EVER--

Interlude - CP9’s Independent Report

Besides the fact that this is still one of my favorite cover stories, there’s a couple of noteworthy things here, the first of which is that Kaku again is taking the lead. Even though he’s the only other CP9 member other than Lucci to be injured badly enough that he can’t walk on his own, he’s still the one directing them where to go.

Other than that, I love seeing all of them just…interacting like friends and being very relaxed and casual, and pretty much every panel where Kaku and Lucci are together they’re directly beside each other so I’ve included a bunch of those here.

Dressrosa & Egghead

The next time we see Lucci and Kaku is at the end of Dressrosa, where they’ve been promoted to CP0 Oda can we please get some explanation of how this happened and let me tell you, I remember this vividly because the spoilers at the time just said that Lucci was talking to ‘someone’ and when the raws came out you can bet I went right to the dialogue to see if it was Kaku because his way of speaking is so telling.

But even in this little scene, we can see they’re having an equal conversation and there’s a major difference between how Lucci’s speaking with Kaku and how he addresses Spandam mere seconds later.

After this we have the Reverie/Levely/what-even-is-this-thing-called arc where they get all of a single panel together and while it’s the first time we actually ‘see’ Kaku after the time-skip, nothing really interesting regarding their relationship happens, so let’s move on to…

The end of the colored manga! And Egghead.

We start with a very familiar situation: Lucci asking Kaku what’s going on, and while Kaku this entire arc seems more outwardly annoyed with Lucci than he ever was in the past (which is never really explained but then again, Lucci spends a lot of the arc doing things he’s specifically been told not to do, so maybe it’s understandable…), he still has all the information and relays it.

Though Kaku’s also much more comfortable letting his real personality show despite them being on a mission while before he was always completely serious after the Water 7 reveal, especially around Lucci. It came through with Zoro and Jabra but during the cover story he’s smiling and laughing a lot with Lucci right there so it makes sense he’d be more willing to let his guard down even ‘on the job’ by now.

So here’s the first real instance of Lucci showing concern for Kaku, something which escalates pretty quickly throughout the arc. It’s subtle, and though he’s framing it as a suggestion to Stussy, if he didn’t care at all he wouldn’t have said anything. 

At this point it’s fairly obvious that Lucci and Kaku don’t really have any authority difference between them and Kaku spends a lot of time in this chapter especially telling Lucci to Not Do The Thing. Anyone that’s ever lived with a cat knows how well this works.

I’ve always found this bit of dialogue particularly interesting because Kaku’s very openly…praising Sentomaru for choosing his loyalty to Vegapunk over assisting the government, and there’s no way Lucci doesn’t hear him say this but he doesn’t say anything in return. There’s no real evidence that Lucci knows about Kaku willingly giving up the key to Zoro or how conflicted he was about Paulie and everyone else, but this seems to imply that at the very least, even if he doesn’t share those sentiments, he wouldn’t think less of Kaku because of it.

Putting these two together since they’re in the same scene but at this point it’s not even subtle concern anymore, Lucci’s genuinely worried for Kaku and you can tell this caught him off-guard.

Kaku’s the first one to suggest working together but Lucci immediately backs him up and goes with the idea. It’s logical in the sense that it’ll give them the biggest chance to survive, but willingly working with pirates isn’t exactly the sort of thing that Lucci, especially in the past, would have so easily done regardless of the situation.

So at this point it’s becoming clear that this whole 4-v-2 section is supposed to be the most…light-hearted thing going on right now and a lot of it is played to be comedic, including Lucci’s inability to lie, but yet again there’s almost nobody else that could get away with scolding him the way Kaku’s doing here.

…And then we skip ahead a day and things happen that I really hope get explained at some point because they seem important, but while Lucci’s never going to have impeccable bedside manner, he’s very concerned with getting Kaku to rest and while Kaku’s trying to justify what happened Lucci really doesn’t seem to care about that. It’s a big departure from him being willing to write off anyone he deems ‘too weak’ and it’s a nice character moment.

I’d mentioned on my liveblog that some of the things Lucci was doing after this point were confusing, but if you look at them through the lens of him wanting to protect Kaku, it makes a lot more sense. Yes, he’s deliberately keeping him out of the loop, but Lucci I think has decided that he’s going to throw caution to the wind and act alone since if Kaku can’t prove he knew about the plan, he’s probably safer being left with the Strawhats, and if the Marines show up he should be safe anyway or so Lucci thinks…

When this chapter came out, I’d said something about Lucci being a hypocrite considering what the rest of CP9 did for him when they could have easily just left him at Enies Lobby, but given what happens almost directly after and likely what he’s trying to do with this entire fight, these words feel even less genuine…

And that brings us to this. The moment that I’ve been thinking about for almost an entire week now. The moment that, looking back at…oh, wow…almost 3000 words of analysis maybe shouldn’t be as surprising as it was for most of us, but it does feel like the payoff for a long, long buildup that’s taken nearly twenty years to reach. Because really, there’s no other way to describe them other than ‘partners’, and probably hasn’t been for a long time…and I’m so glad that Lucci acknowledged it.

To summarize, I think what surprised me most about re-visiting all of this is how much the manga has framed them as equals since the beginning even though it was never explicitly stated between the characters themselves. Lucci’s always been far more lenient with Kaku than with anyone else, and Kaku in turn has never had any fear of Lucci even if he wasn’t really expressing his true self with him for a long time.

The cover story being the turning point makes perfect sense, and the progression throughout Egghead of Lucci being more outwardly willing to show his concern and Kaku not hiding his emotions at all seems like a natural progression of their relationship and their level of comfort around each other.

And the fact that Oda is never really…hitting us over the head with any of it until that final moment when Lucci says everything so plainly because Kaku’s life is the most important thing to him even when faced with a literal monster… It’s so effective. 

I don’t know where we go from here. To be honest, I’m kind of scared of where we go from here. But regardless of the outcome, I hope this little essay has been at the very least interesting and perhaps allowed you to look at these two in a different light.

Thanks for reading.

[doublel27]

I thought joong was straight? He is quite into dunk lips but beyond that i thought straight. I don't even read him as bi?

Look, I neither actually know nor care what Joong’s sexual orientation is. That’s between him and whomever he chooses to tell. And most of my Joong knowledge is adjacent to my knowledge of FKT, AouBoom, EarthMix and DaouOffroad because he’s close with all of them. I more know of him then know him, so I could be missing stuff.

I would say, in regards to your ask, Joong doesn’t appear to have the painful knowing that often comes along with growing up queer in a society that doesn’t want you to be that a lot of other queer people use as a tell to identify each other. The thing that makes us, as queer folx, hesitate or get shy when it comes to things straight people wouldn’t think twice of. And while I do use that in my analysis sometimes, I also know members of Gen Z across the world actively work to resist that shyness and that shame that comes with internalized homophobia and honestly the real-world consequences that can come from being proudly out.

What I do know is he is 1000% into the fanservice portion of his job. Now either it’s his job and he’s having the best time being gay for pay, its his job and he’s excellent at pretending to have the best time pretending to be gay, or he is just shamelessly queer and has said fuck the knowing.

This man is out here yelling into full concert audiences “where is my teerak” and when the audience yells back saying SHHH! he didn’t ask for them, he asked for Teerak! He’s hugging and kissing Dunk at every opportunity and posting various shots of Dunk’s bare waist in crop tops during this THK filming area. He strikes me as the kind of man who reads the RPF about himself. In The Heart Killers book fair panel this past week, he talked about his love of reading BL novels and imaging himself and Dunk in the lead roles. Take that for what you will.

He also expressly stated in an interview alongside Dunk this week that he insisted on being paired with a partner the same height as him. Specifically stating, he thinks it’s a stereotype that one member of an imagined pair/branded couple is always bigger than the other and he didn’t want to lean into it. He wanted to go against that narrative.

As @firstkanaphans and @respectthepetty pointed out, he has a shit ton of queer friends and has close relationships with the members of GMM that are most likely to be clocked as queer (whether they are or not is also not expressly public knowledge and some folx that people clock as gay are straight because femme isn’t exclusive to gay men) Which again, either he’s the most down for the cause straight dude that exists or he’s also queer. My stance is considering he and Daou talk about how close they were to starving trying to make their first shot at being idols happen, I hope they’re having the best time in Thai BL fanservice land being shameless and getting that money.

To end, let me paraphrase my beloved Kit Harrington: to believe you can tell the level of queerness someone embodies just by looking at them or listening to their voice or looking at their hobbies, you’ve missed the entire part of Heartstopper.

Which is why I keep all my speculating to mostly private convos and tumblr where I can pretend celebrities don’t live because we’re all mostly anonymous on here and this site is hell to search. Don’t @ folx on Twitter or on their IGs or their TikToks. Don’t try and out people with YouTube videos. Let the Schrödinger’s Gays enjoy their boxes.

I know I have other anons (I see you. I am maybe coming soon) but this required less work on my end to compile my answers.

[dykedvonte]

Just wanted to say thank you for your curly posts, I feel like a lot of people try to make it seem like a black and white situation with him when it’s just a gray one.

Multiple things can be true at once. Yes, Anya was failed by Curly and Curly enabled Jimmy. Yes, Curly was friends with both of them. He didn’t want to believe that his friend did something so shitty like that to another person and was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Do I think he should have? No, though I can understand why he did what he did. Do I think Curly had bad intentions? Also no, though they were misguided ones at best.

I’ve seen quite a couple of posts that claim Curly was just as bad as Jimmy and that they deserved each other in the end. Which, I was just so tired of seeing, because I just don’t feel like they’re on the same level at all. I also feel like people ignore how Curly becomes a victim as well when he’s being abused, again - Curly wasn’t innocent, but I don’t believe that justifies in saying that he would be on the equal field as someone that becomes his abuser, when Curly becomes completely dependent on others for living.

So, reading your posts was a nice refresher to me that not everyone thinks in one ways about Curly T-T

Thank you 🤟🏾

The first thing I do in my analysis is figure out intentions of the themes and intentions with the characters.

I feel like people think Curly and Jimmy had the same intentions because they were friends rather than Curly’s intentions being misguided by his friendship with Jimmy. It’s not malicious and it’s not something he was aware of. He’s a flawed person and a great character and I feel like people are making that one flaw his defining trait.

I don’t know what people want like the game isn’t about revenge like it makes it clear that getting even or leveling the playing field the way they want literally only ends up making things worse. Like I don’t enjoy excessively torturing a character, just cause you feel there were viable options that didn’t actually exist that he willingly ignored.

[rivangel]

Hi Kane!

I don't know how I can express how amazing & fascinating your post about Levi's mental health is!

Every aspect of it was really interesting, but regarding his relationship issues/shortcomings specifically, how was he able to become close to Farlan & Isabel in your opinion? Their relationship seems crucial to me for the evolution of his interactions with others later on. The fact that, despite all the trauma & issues he experienced, he could form this first bond since his mother's death (and to some extent since Kenny) probably allowed him to build relationships within the Survey Corps.

I'd love to read your thoughts about it (no pressure though, feel free to ignore my rambling)

this isn’t rambling at all!! since you bring it up, i wish i delved deeper into this. i was too focused on kenny (aka levi’s loneliness and suffering)

i'm kind of worried this turned into a bigger analysis of Levi's character more than psychology, but I think I said most of what I wanted to in the original post. This definitely covers how he bonded with his friends -> why they let him continue to bond with others

*sorry this will be quite a bit of speculation seeing how veryyy little we know about Levi, Farlan, and Isabel's history*

(also, i'm going with the manga's version of events because it's more fleshed out)

I'll reiterate this first:

It’s not that Levi feels as detached as he looks, but he doesn’t know how to express himself or open up.

The Underground’s environment also makes him socially awkward, rude, of course stoic/not very expressive, and blunt. Levi was forced to become extremely observant of people to suss out their intentions, remaining vigilant of his surroundings at all times.

Before anything else, it's easy to confirm Levi met and joined up with Farlan before rescuing Isabel off the streets. Because of Farlan, there came about "Levi's" gang (Farlan seems to run it in all the meaningful ways), which necessitated members, and gave Levi/Farlan the means to help the helpless like Isabel (but more on that later).

Farlan and Levi met when Farlan approached him in order to rough him up, and if he was any good at defending himself, he'd have him join his gang. Levi of course cleared all of his attackers, which stunned Farlan. He would do anything to get him to join, even though Levi heavily distrusted him now.

So you would think Farlan doesn't have a chance in the world knowing Levi's history with betrayal.

At some point, Farlan's gang turns on him. Likely because, since Farlan couldn't get Levi to join them, he opted to join Levi and asked the others to do the same.

(I loveee that idea, but that aside) This should speak to what Levi desires more than anything at this point in his life: Kenny really didn't abandon him that long ago, and up to now Levi knows nothing but the suffering of the Underground as far as how the world simply is as a whole.

He is suffering for literally no reason. But, it's not because he was lonely he let Farlan in as much as to have a use for his strength, because in Levi's mind, that's his only use. For many years he's acted "selfish", using his strength only for himself and rotting in hopelessness, so it makes sense to be desperate to break free enough for Levi to (as suggested) cave and let Farlan be his companion in short time. Especially as Farlan gave Levi such a huge amount of "praise"—as Kenny would give Levi—by dropping his own gang and wanting to join with him because of that strength.

Farlan is also much more of a leader, whereas Levi is the opposite, which is true throughout all of canon (not that he can't lead of course). He doesn't plan on the level of Hange nor Erwin, only giving suggestions, and spends the vast majority of the time as a soldier fighting and following orders. So Farlan gave him some stability, even if subconsciously.

Looking through the frame of why Levi chose this bond as—assumably but likely—the first since his mother's death and Kenny's abandonment of him, it's quite immature. Levi didn't need Farlan for any practical reason, and he only seemed to be concerned with survival (not garnering support to reach the Surface). Even though Farlan was untrustworthy, Levi was attached to the need to be needed. Farlan shouldn't have cared for Levi as a person yet, nor showed the goodness Levi would be attracted to, but Farlan did "praise" him, and show he was willing to make an enemy out of his friends to join, so Levi was willing to go with him on that basis.

This certainly speaks to Levi's emotional immaturity, and loneliness.

But he now has some reason to have his strength, which is to protect and support his friend, and with Farlan's proposal about gathering other members, supporting and protecting others.

This leads into Isabel's introduction.

Farlan, before going to the Surface, is frustrated that Levi and Isabel only seem concerned with "dragging everyone else down to where they are" (Isabel who wants to kill, seemingly, the people who have hurt her; Levi is skeptical about Farlan's plan to join the Survey Corps and go Aboveground because it seems to good to be true/could put them all in danger). Farlan is empathetic (Levi wouldn't be with him if he wasn't...), but he's too self-interested to propose rescuing children in order to make them stronger as a group.

So, Levi most likely did make that proposal.

I think that Isabel embodies everything good about the world to Levi. She's so earnest, and pure, and hopeful. There are many moments where Levi looks at her fondly, and when he teases her and she gets upset, he makes sure she knows he was joking.

She embodies what the Scouts believe in too, and she comes to believe in their cause first out of the trio.

As such, Levi will go to absolutely any length to protect her. The first thing he did after Isabel came back one night after being attacked was track her attackers down and kill them. I wager Levi really does see her as his little sister, like she does her big brother.

All of this taken into account, it makes sense that Levi shot down Farlan's idea of joining the Survey Corps in the beginning, suddenly asked them to find an excuse not to go on the expedition, and killed Isabel's attackers on the spot—Levi is extremely protective of them both. Not only in preserving their lives, but making sure they're living good lives.

But that said about Isabel, Farlan, and Levi's moonlight chat, it goes differently in the manga (although the character and relationship beats are the same). The main conflict of this scene is that Levi keeps defying Farlan, especially as it has to do with Levi's need to kill Erwin (I think Levi feels the same ferocity about this as killing Zeke, which says a lot about Levi's immaturity of the past compared to his righteous anger later.)

Which reflects none of the humanity Levi feels nor his desire to help others. Levi doesn't process it in that way... but he puts aside his pride, and decides to trust Farlan in hopes of living on the Surface with his friends; he won't kill Erwin, at least for the time being.

At this moment, he trusts his friends. On the expedition when he separates from Isabel and Farlan, he trusts himself.

Levi's trust would go on to be broken, but it's remarkably important that Levi doesn't blame himself for Isabel and Farlan's deaths—like he blamed himself for his mother's, and for Kenny's abandonment of him.

Erwin is the reason for Levi's cycle of hopelessness and desolation was broken. (Not to get too far away from psychology, but :')) He gives Levi a common enemy and reasons to fight against it, and for the sake of others.

As when Levi met Farlan, and Levi joining the Survey Corps, it's the same. This means putting his strength (himself) to use, not just for friends, but for the best cause in Levi's mind, because of his friends.

That is, what the Scouts pursue, freedom, is the greatest "goodness" in the world to Levi. Devoting his heart to make a life outside the Walls, so that no one has to live like he had in the Underground, and making others feel safe. The end goal is sickeningly idealistic, but worth the hearts the Scouts give.

Erwin makes Levi realize that for once it's not himself he has to blame. Farlan gets Levi to recognize the importance and what he has to gain from trusting his comrades. Isabel becomes something of an accidental martyr that gives Levi an even bigger reason to join the Scouts in the first place.

It's certainly not the case that Levi connects with his comrades easily, or with many if at all, but Isabel and Farlan's importance is unquestionable in that.

Most pertinently, as one of the central themes of Levi's character, he internalizes trusting his comrades and trusting in himself. (Levi can't know what the right choice is, but nonetheless...)

[aemiron-main]

frame by frame: quit calling everything a production error

One day we will escape the production error allegations 🙏 I find it so funny that people are saying not to go frame by frame for details when in reality there are MASSIVE changes you can spot when looking frame by frame, changes that CANNOT be an accident, unless you expect me to believe that the same show that has the exact patterns for the eye blood on all of the lab kids kept in binders so they can replicate it every time just accidentally replaced the corpses of the children with adults, un-broke their legs, and completely changed their eyes and also moved their position entirely?

Here’s Amy L Forsyth, the head of the ST makeup dept talking about the exact patterns for the lab kids’ makeup:

Here’s a BTS pic of them adjusting small details on the lab kids’ makeup so that it’s exact:

And yet I’m supposed to believe that because these following shots are “frame by frame,” they’re just a production error? I’m supposed to believe that just because the GA wouldn’t go frame by frame, ST wouldn’t include those details and they just accidentally replaced a child with a grown man, unbroke the legs, and forgot to gouge out the eyes?

Like, sorry, but I just find it a little absurd to discount details because someone went “frame by frame,” to find them. And yes, I know there’s been posts today about frame by frame stuff but this isn’t even directed at a specific post because it’s a sentiment I’ve seen repeatedly. And it’s a sentiment that drives me absolutely insane.

People will come on here and say that production errors are sooo common in ST and yet they never provide any actual evidence or source for this, despite the fact that such claims directly contradict what actual st production members have said about the levels of detail in this show.

Amy Parris, head of costuming for ST said this:

Chris Trujillo, production designer for ST said this:

Amy L Forsythe said this about Eddie’s bat bites and how even though some of the bites were never shown on-screen, they did them anyway:

Like, what more do you guys want before you let go of the “it’s a production error/youre looking too far into it” attitude? I continuously provide BTS pictures and interviews with production themselves as evidence of the fact that it’s not a production error, and yet, I never see the same sort of evidence provided by people claiming that things are production errors. Some of you guys need to learn how to cite your sources before dismissing others’ analysis. The ACTUAL PEOPLE WORKING ON ST PRODUCTION ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS THAT THE AUDIENCE NEVER EVEN SEES. And yet I’m just supposed to take your word, with no sources or evidence, that the details we DO see are just errors? Yeah, no thanks, I’ll stick with what the actual people doing the work have said about their work.

Like, the Duffers have said before that they’re not catering this show to the GA/they’re making the show that THEY want to make, so why is the bar suddenly “oh lol if the GA wouldnt notice it/wouldnt go frame by frame, its just an error,” like did you guys miss Murray’s whole speech about “behind the curtain,” or what?

[setsuraposting]

My Thoughts On The “Discourse”

Lately, I’ve been seeing a lot of accusations of NuraMago having “problematic content” in regards to the ages of characters, and I just wanted to make one big post addressing all the arguments with one fell swoop.

Of course the real answer here is that it doesn’t matter that much morally because it’s fiction, but that’s the boring response. I want to engage these people on the same level and address their actual arguments, so as to not let one of my favorite series get slandered and misrepresented without proper analysis being done on it.

The first thing to bring up, is Nurarihyon marrying Youhime when she was 15, and Rihan marrying Wakana when she was around 17 (guess it runs in the family). These are, I will admit, kind of weird. With Wakana it’s not QUITE as bad, but Youhime’s case is pretty clear-cut. Considering the time period, I think it makes sense for the author to have written it that way (in that same arc, her own father was getting ready to sell her into prostitution, so this was just kind of a thing back then), but for Nurarihyon as a character it’s definitely not a great look.

Next, onto Setsura and Rihan. While there’s not any definitive proof that Setsura loves Rihan in the same way she loves Nurarihyon, there are certainly a lot of details that suggest it to be the case, and the rest of this post will be operating under that assumption (that’s a topic for another time). Essentially, Setsura helped raise Rihan when he was a child, he developed a crush on her, he grew up and she (presumably) started liking him back, but by this point it was already too late, his feelings had changed and he ended up marrying Otome instead. This is a deeply unfortunate situation, but what it definitely isn’t, is grooming. That’s not what that term means, and would imply Setsura was psychologically priming Rihan to be more susceptible to her or some insidious shit like that. No, she was just raising him normally, he thought he liked her for a while, and then he grew out of it, that’s all that happened.

And finally we arrive at the thing people actually care about, the real meat of this discourse, Rikuo x Tsurara. There are two main arguments used here to invalidate their relationship, that Tsurara groomed Rikuo, and that Tsurara is an adult while Rikuo is a child. For the first one, it’s basically the Setsura and Rihan example all over again, except Rikuo’s crush didn’t happen immediately, it seems to have taken a while to form and didn’t fade away like Rihan’s. Those specifics aside, the same logic as before applies here.

The second point, however, is more complicated. On the matter of Tsurara’s age, we know she was probably a few years old when she arrived at the Nura Clan, ten years went by, and then she wrote a letter back to her mother, at a point after Rikuo’s birth but before Rihan’s death. This could only have taken place from 1997 to 2002, meaning she arrived at the clan anywhere between 1987 and 1992, and was born even earlier than that. This would mean that by 2011 (the end of the series), she had been with the clan anywhere from 18 to 24 years, so unless Yuki-Onna have their own weird system of aging, she would most definitely be an adult, just a petite adult.

Rikuo, meanwhile, seems to exist in a paradox; on one hand, his human form looks like a kid and goes to middle school, while his youkai form looks and acts just like his father and grandfather in their primes, and is in every imaginable sense coded as an adult. Coupled with the fact that the youkai age of adulthood is said to be 13, it can be hard to make heads or tails of this. The most intuitive explanation I can think of is that his youkai form is an adult and his human form is a child, which is kind of supported by how his two states are portrayed as not merely transformations of the same person (like when his bodyguards take on human disguises at school), but separate personalities within himself who can interact with each other, as shown during the Tsurara sakazuki scene.

To add to this confusion, in extra chapter chapter 210.2 (best chapter ever, if you know you know) there’s a scene where Kana, Yura, Tsurara, and Kejourou are all suggested as possible brides for Rikuo in the near future. The fact that 13 year-old schoolgirls can be put next to centuries-old youkai women in this context without anyone batting an eye suggests to me that Rikuo is in fact considered both a kid and an adult, or rather, it switches depending on his form. (A 13 year-old human Rikuo marrying another 13 year-old would admittedly still be kind of strange, though…)

So, it would be fine for Kana or Yura to be with his human form, and then for Tsurara or Kejourou to be with his youkai form, I guess? That’s some ammunition for the people who support a harem ending, if nothing else.

Whether this makes the situation better or worse is up for you to decide, perhaps in the act of defending the series I actually made it look worse in some of your eyes, but eh, shit happens. My goal wasn’t to blindly defend it but rather to look at the evidence fairly and try to sort things out as best I could, so do with this information what you will. This has been your host Stratovariant, the worst Nura fan ever, and thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[applestorms]

alright,

i am well in need of a proper homestuck reread by this point, it's certainly been long enough since i went through the comic as a whole instead of just skipping around to different acts and conversations. to anyone following me rn who would like to avoid possible post spam about this, i'll be tagging everything with "#astronaut reread" so feel free to filter that. dunno if it'll be that spam-y though tbh, i'm trying to be more careful and take my time going through each page and image to really Pay Attention this time round to make sense of all of the theories/analysis i've been reading lately, but that may also make my liveblogging posts longer so. idk we'll see how this goes

initial thoughts: i've always been drawn to the emptiness of early homestuck, the whole aspect of the kids shitting around in their rooms doing basically nothing of real importance (ignoring hs's love of callbacks) feels very true to the experience of being a teenager in the last few decades. it's quite slow story-wise, of course, but it genuinely does set up a lot of the story later on (john's posters all foreshadowing/inspiring later plot points, etc.) and the vibe is just. man idk, i've seen people criticize act 6 for being slow in that nothing really happens since all the characters are just Waiting, but reading through the very beginning again that almost feels more true to the core of homestuck, or at least where it started. and i like it, sometimes it's nice to just slow down, even though i get the frustration w/ that later in the story after the plot has so much more baggage. but more reflection on that later.

john is an interesting character on a meta level in how he represents the most basic entity in homestuck: the first kid, upon which all other kids evolve off of, but what's more interesting about that fact to me is how his original Home plays into that character. maybe i'm biased by nostalgia, but (A1:82) is such an interesting page, it's like the first point where the comic hints at taking itself more seriously by marking just how empty the space surrounding john is, houses all copies of one another and far apart along the streets. not to mention the wind running through the windchime, perhaps another instance of foreshadowing/inspiration? hussie mentions the idea of vriska being tied to the image of the sun that page ends on in the commentary notes, troll gods not yet conceived of but looking down and watching all the same. honestly all i can think of is a section from the start of ch2 of the zhuangzi:

Master Dapple said, “My, isn’t that a good question you’ve asked, Ziyou! Just now I lost myself. Do you know? You’ve heard the pipes of people, but not the pipes of earth. Or if you’ve heard the pipes of earth, you haven’t heard the pipes of Heaven.”

“May I ask what you mean?”

“The Big Lump belches breath and it’s called wind. If only it wouldn’t start! When it starts, the ten thousand holes begin to hiss. Don’t you hear the shsh-shsh? In the mountain vales there are great trees a hundred spans around with knots like noses, like mouths, like ears, like sockets, like rings, like mortars, like ditches, like gullies. Gurgling, humming, hooting, whistling, shouting, shrieking, moaning, gnashing! The leaders sing ‘Eeeeeeh!’ The followers sing ‘Ooooooh!’ In a light breeze it’s a little chorus, but in a gusty wind it’s a huge orchestra. And when the violent winds are over, the ten thousand holes are empty. Haven’t you witnessed the brouhaha?”

Ziyou said, “So the pipes of earth are those holes, and the pipes of people are bamboo flutes. May I ask about the pipes of Heaven?”

Master Dapple said, “Blowing the ten thousand differences, making each be itself and all choose themselves—who provokes it? Does Heaven turn? Does earth stay still? Do the sun and moon vie for position? Who is in charge here? Who pulls the strings? Who sits with nothing to do, gives it a push and sets it in motion? Do you think it’s locked in motion and can’t be stopped? Or do you think it’s spinning out of control and can’t slow itself down? Do the clouds make the rain? Or does the rain make the clouds? Who rumbles all this out? Who sits there with nothing to do and takes perverse delight in egging it on? The wind rises in the north—now west, now east, now dilly-dallying up above. Who huffs and puffs it? Who sits with nothing to do and blows it? May I ask the cause?”

(translation by norden & ivanhoe)

perhaps that's fitting with all the talk of transformation & flexibility/adaptation in that chapter.

you really can't get away from the names "homestuck" and "s(u)burb" with this beginning to the comic. john, as the quintessential homestuck kid, trapped in his house in the empty suburbs, stuck not because of any physical boundaries/walls, but perhaps because of a lack of them. massive roads and sprawling suburbs that make it impossible to get anywhere on foot is a pretty classic image of modern america, so john's desire for breath, for movement, makes sense in that regard. homestuck has always been most appealing to me in how it doesn't shy away from reality, as messy as that engagement often is, and this beginning feels like it gets at some of that emotional core that homestuck started with. it's immediately followed by a joke about pissing/shitting in the mailbox too. classic.

[theory-of-art]

3.2 Significant Form

Approaching Clive Bell’s theory of significant form as someone who has both a Bachelor’s and Master’s in English and has taught literature courses for five years (and counting) was actually quite easy once I made the connection between his significant form and formalism. In literary theory, formalism is a type of analysis that has to do with the structural purposes of a text, essentially viewing the piece in a cultural vacuum in order to pick out its modes, genres, discourse, and forms. It looks to the structures of the plot, the characters, the settings, and the themes as they are wholly within the text, ignoring the author’s cultural, economic, and historical context as acting upon the work. To give a very simplified example, a formalist analysis of Harper Lee’s To Kill a Mockingbird would focus primarily on the characters, the narrative structure, and the themes inherent in the text without connecting the experiences of the characters and events with Lee’s childhood growing up in Monroeville, Alabama in the 1930s and 1940s. Formalism implies that the author’s lived experiences have no effect upon the impact and messages of a text.  

Bell’s theory states that the significant form of a piece of art is its potential to provoke aesthetic emotion in the viewer. For the sake of expounding upon his theory, aesthetic emotions are the emotions that are felt during an aesthetic activity or appreciation which can include the base, everyday variety like fear or wonder or they can refer to more complex aesthetic contexts. Aesthetic contexts take the emotions a step further and compound them into experiences like the sublime or the kitsch. Bell specifically delineates significant form from beauty, stating that an object doesn’t need to be beautiful in order to elicit the emotional response that signifies significant form. For Bell, it is the composition of a piece that gives it the ability to evoke emotions; it is the “lines and colors combined in a particular way, certain forms and relations of forms, that stir our aesthetic emotions.” 

While it still seems to view the works in a manner that excludes the artist’s intent and contextual experience, the significant form seems to approach art in a manner more emotive than formalism approaches literature. This is probably due to the fact that art and aesthetics operate on a different cerebral level than literature. While literature can evoke aesthetic emotions (gothic literature attempts to explore the sublime by triggering fear responses), it is a drawn-out process that takes the length of the piece, which even in the shortest of stories can be several minutes to an hour. Art, on the other hand, is able to trigger aesthetic emotions almost instantly, so there isn’t a period of waiting to experience significant form. 

Let’s look at the difference between formalism and significant form, especially in the immediacy of the aesthetic emotional response. In order to do this let’s look at Pablo Picasso’s 1937 painting Guernica and Stephen Vincent Benét’s 1937 post-apocalyptic short story “By the Waters of Babylon.” I specifically chose this short story because I know for a fact it was written in response to the exact same April 1937 bombing of Guernica, a town in northern Spain, by Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy at the request of the Spanish Nationalists that inspired Picasso to paint his piece. 

Benét’s story is presented through a non-linear plot where the reader is grasping at straws trying to place the events in the historical timeline. The narrator, John, is the son of a priest and is training to be a priest himself, though priests in their society are simply those who can handle the metal collected from the Dead Places belonging to the long-dead gods. He ventures on a spiritual journey without revealing his destination is the Place of the Gods because it is a forbidden place. As he reaches the ruins, he sees a statue of a “god”-- a human-like figure that says “ASHING” on its base; he continues through the ruins and is chased by wild dogs into a large building where he finds the body of a dead god. **SPOILERS** That night John has a waking dream of a bustling city, bright with neon lights, and humans living their lives before they are destroyed by fire raining down on them from the skies. John realizes that the gods were just humans whose technologically advanced society led to their own eradication. The short story finishes by stating: 

“Nevertheless, we make a beginning. it is not for the metal alone we go to the Dead Places now—there are the books and the writings. They are hard to learn. And the magic tools are broken—but we can look at them and wonder. At least, we make a beginning… We shall go to the Place of the Gods—the place newyork… They were men who were here before us. We must build again.”

The piece creates a feeling of unease and foreboding that emphasizes the theme of advancing technology past our ability to compromise and cohabitate on the planet. Taken in a vacuum as formalism dictates, the aesthetic emotions of fear and unease are developed over the course of the short story, roughly forty minutes. Thus there is significant form, but the story does it over a longer period of time. 

Contrast this with Picasso’s Guernica, which is instantly unsettling upon viewing it. The chiaroscuro of the piece emphasizes the sharp lines created by the forms which configure in a confusing and unsettling composition evoking the aesthetic emotional response of fear and despair. The figures in the piece include a gored horse, a bull, several screaming women, a dead baby, a dismembered soldier, and flames all rendered in black, grey, and white. While the primary emotion evoked is fear, the lack of color emphasizes the despair at the violence wrought.    

While both of these pieces are inspired by the horrors of the same bombing of Guernica, the aesthetic emotions evoked by each piece happen in different ways over different lengths of time for the audiences. Thus significant form can be applied across the full range of artistic expression be it visual, auditory, or written.

[artsydump]

Holy shit this is so epic omg the grin on my face was so big and just got bigger and bigger as I continued to scroll down and realized it had not only EMH as well, but even Tribe Twelve!! Eeeeeek it’s so cool.

Also, I feel like the placements are reflective of the respective pieces. Marble Hornets isn’t very dark on the surface, it keeps it’s darkness close to it’s metaphorical chest, only once you start to look and dig deeper do you uncover the darkness in MH. At the same time, you relate on a deep level to the people you see, and their every reaction is SO understandable. You look at them and see someone that’s, in some way or another, like you. And that makes the pain that they go through so much more haunting for you as a viewer, and so much more personally painful.

EMH is much more immediately dark, it’s very obvious something is wrong early on even if you don’t know what it is yet. EMH doesn’t just not hide it’s darkness in the way that MH does (it doesn’t hide it at all basically), it EXPLORES it’s darkness and experiments, getting comfortable and surprising you at every turn with just how visceral it gets. In EMH, it’s not so much that you relate to the characters, not that you don’t, they are very relatable, it’s more so that they are kind of representative of the people around you. They’re framed as normal inconsequential people even more so than the guys in MH. Their plight is so haunting because it happens to these guys, where everyone knows someone who is like one of them.

Tribe Twelve is the most immediately dark and disturbing, right off the bat you’re unsettled and on the defensive, you’re way in over your head already and TT makes SURE you know it. It drives that home further through it’s unsettling imagery and nightmarish atmosphere. It’s horrifying nature, to me personally, is mostly because of how easily you see people being used as pawns in TT. Yes, we see this also in EMH, through HABIT mostly, but in TT it’s on a larger scale, and these people are all hosts to a connected group of entities all serving this overarching, larger evil. The sense that you get here, is kind of that it’s hopeless, these are entities beyond your ability to completely understand at first glance, and they are all serving one larger being that haunts us at every turn. There is no escape, not even for a single moment. In EMH, there is no escape, yes, but it’s usually drawn out. Here, there is no reprieve, not even for a fraction of a second. In TT, you feel the pain of the characters, yes, but at the same time it’s contrasted by how utterly infuriating the main character can be at times (spoken as someone who’s not watched it fully, and likely won’t because DAMN YOU OBSERVER STOP JUMPSCARING ME). You feel angry because on one hand, his reactions are understandable, but on the other hand, especially when compared to the main characters of the other two, you can see where he fails to take opportunities and where he misses the mark, because he’s quite simply usually more quick to anger than the other main characters. At least, that’s my experience when watching him.

Okay, this just started out as an appreciation post and a little thought, and somehow spiraled into a kind of analysis almost? Uh, whoops. 😅

Anyway yes very cool I love it. And yeah.

[aidansplaguewind]

Is it just me or isn’t the similarities and differences that Cillian is INTJ (like Petyr), and Aidan is likely INFJ. They share similarities on surface level. INXJ. But they have different cognitive functions. INTJ has Te and Fi meaning they know what they value and their own morals and they’re good at expressing it and doing theoretical analysis. INFJ got Fe and Ti. Always attuned to other people, and they understand things by facts and logic. They may have a harder time expressing how they’re thinking, because they have so many possibilities in their heads. INTJ know what they value and that’s why INTJ are more likely to be grey characters whilst INFJ can, but are more likely to be idealists and dreamers. They’re very different, and INFJs are good at spotting details. But they’re similar compared to other types of people. Both types are the two most uncommon MBTIs. When they say rare it’s still like 1%. So on the globe there will be many. But then again, these are often self proclaimed MBTIs not all will actually be INFJ or INTJ. Aidan hasn’t taken the test I believe, but no other type can fully explain the way he functions and work. It’s why he’s so good at stepping into others shoes, whilst still having a full analytical understanding of them. INFJ and INTJ are both analytical types. But one if analytical in their ideas and often more coloured by their and others feelings and values. INTJ doesn’t care much about others feelings per se, only if they’ve attuned such a moral value into their own values. They make objective analysis better, and are better at expressing it (or want to, because they like to be clever). Hence I think, why you like many, could prefer Aidan over Petyr. Both are complex, both are smart. But one will serve himself, and only if the INTJ values you too, will he be very, very devoted to you (but Petyr was ready to let Sansa go through quite a lot even if he loved her, in his own way)

I didn't answer this right away because I had so many posts about this whole INFJ thing and I don't like to clog my blog with too much of the same thing and nothing different in between. Well, when it comes to texts posts anyway.

I'm not going to assume that Aidan is an INFJ. I'm not going to assume anyone's anything. To be perfectly honest with you, I doubt Aidan would care enough to bother taking the test.

I myself don't put too much stock into this stuff. My sister took the same test I took but she took it twice but spread out over time, it wasn't back to back. But anyway, she got two different results.

I mean, it's cool and it's fun and all, but I don't think we can base all of our assumptions of someone around a personality test.

As far as my preferences, I prefer Aidan over Petyr because Aidan is a real person and I don't think he would push me out a moon door or have me poisoned. To be honest I relate very much to Petyr. I'm a highly manipulative individual and I'm incredibly good at it. I just don't use it on people I care about anymore. I'm only affectionate with people I'm very, very close to. Some people think I'm kind of cold.

And as far as Cillian Murphy goes, I don't like his vibe and I don't like his face. His face really, really puts me off.

[agentravensong]

Why is Weird Route so Weird? (DeltaRune spoilers)

So here’s my thoughts on why Chapter 2's Weird / Snowgrave route exists (on a meta level) and why it in some ways feels even more upsetting than UT’s equivalent. Spoilers under the cut, obviously.

(For those who don't know what this route is, here's the breakdown. Yes it's all real, I've played through it myself.)

In UnderTale, there are little hints that suggest the player isn't Frisk, or Chara. Post-paci, Flowey tells you to let Frisk live their life. At the end of No Mercy run, Chara speaks to you, asking why you want to bring back the world after *you* destroyed it, and, if it's your second run of this type, why you'd then destroy it again. "I cannot understand these feelings anymore."

DeltaRune seems to be taking this idea of the player being a separate entity from the character you control and expanding it by making it the focus of Kris's story. Noelle at the end of Weird Route, in fact, makes it very clear that the voice Kris used to command her to do bad things didn't sound like their voice at all.

That's not my main point here, though. My main point is that, where DR as a whole is expanding on that aspect of UT, giving a different perspective that more so focuses on the horror of being controlled by an outside entity, and which clarifies that the human being controlled in these games is, in fact, their own person...

The Weird route is an expansion and alternate perspective on the No Mercy route, highlighting an aspect of it that many fans - Chara demonizers in particular - seem to miss: the corrupting effect we have on the character being controlled.

In UT's No Mercy route, we see Frisk/Chara become more aggressive, we hear from other characters that they're emoting even less than usual, and the narration becomes much more cynical, dry, and focused on the task at hand. We are teaching Chara that they were brought back for power's sake, that it has been kill or be killed all along, and that there's nothing in this world worth saving.

However, the route's focus is generally more on the destruction and hurt you're causing to the Underground. Frisk as a presence basically disappears, and Chara doesn't confront you about what you've done to them until the end - and by that point, they're fully on your side (as long as you agree to finish what you started). The main source of horror and angst is seeing the towns empty, the monsters' responses to this ongoing tragedy, their futile attempts to stop you, the "but nobody came"s. Hell, you literally get a counter for how many monsters you have left to kill in each area.

It's different in DeltaRune's Weird Route. There's still some of that brand of angst; enemies running away from you after a certain point, and their frozen bodies remaining on the map. But you're never made to kill any characters you're attached to in the same way as UT's bosses (unless you're a big Berdly fan, I guess, and that's still just 1), and you don't see any of the Darkners reacting to the loss of their friends and family. The cars in the streets disappear, but it's not quite the same as seeing Snowdin Town abandoned.

The focus has shifted, from the way you're ruining the world at large by killing, to the way you're corrupting, ruining, the character doing the killing.

But how do you make that focus clear, when Kris's emotions and will are already so suppressed by the player?

You bring in another character under your command, who's even more hesitant to fight than Ralsei. And you break her.

You teach her that it's okay to use whatever methods to get what you want. You teach her to see everyone else as just enemies to cut down. You teach her that getting stronger is the most important thing.

And Kris changes too in this run - you're only able to push Noelle so far (after the first few murders) because crueler dialogue options come up for them, and Susie can tell when they reunite that something's off. But the focus is on Noelle, because it's a lot easier to see how horrible it is when it happens to her. To a character you can't write off as just a mold for you to pour yourself into, or as the embodiment of your own desire for power.

TL:DR;

In UnderTale, you primarily feel bad for killing your friends, and for being a murderer.

In DeltaRune, you primarily feel bad for making someone else a worse person, and for using them (still to kill people).

And if you see how horrible it is to do that to a person - a kid ("teens are just bigger children") - who never asked for it in DeltaRune...

Consider turning that lens of analysis back on UnderTale proper.

Don't forget about Frisk and Chara. Don't forget what you did to them.

P.S. - Some more factors which don't really fit into the rest of this analysis:

UnderTale is a fantasy game through and through. DeltaRune has a clear divide between its fantasy world and the "normal" world. It's one thing to fight, even freeze, all these fantasy creatures. It's another thing when the consequences come home to roost in the real world.

Chapter 1 is set up to make us think a route like this wouldn't be possible. And even in Chapter 2, fighting enemies normally isn't enough to trigger a significantly worse ending. It can only happen because you go against the script (the whole thing starts with you backtracking to Spamton's shop, after all) and make both Kris and Noelle act so out of character.

and a few more points for good measure from @bananonbinary

[leportraitducadavre]

The infinite “who’s most powerful Kunoichi” debate and the sexist erasure/degradation of female characters

This is not a post I write to be completely serious -or well, serious in the sense that I truly believe what I’ll say here, but not in the fact that this is meant to be taken as an in-depth analysis.

It’s quite usual for me to find (without even looking, since I’m not particularly interested in participating in these types of discussions) a variant of the debate I introduced in the title. This subject arises particularly from the Sakura Haruno fandom, who often (and I mean, seriously often) introduces this question as to receive a very specific answer -I shouldn’t need to say which result they’re looking for since it’s rather obvious.

And again, this is not to diminish Sakura’s merits (an affirmation I need to do often since most of the time I express disagreement with their conclusion I get labeled as a “hater”) -but her achievements are often blown out of proportion for the sake of putting her in the same level of growth as both her male counterparts.

[Notice how the debate is always limited to the female spectrum, not only because Sakura would be pushed rather down on the list should men be allowed to participate; meaning, there’s a clear intention of making her achieve a higher position when shortening the field, but also because Sakura (or rather, her fans) need her to be the best female choice -and yes, their internalized sexism is the main reason].

We can't oversee the fact that many of these stans are also people who fall into the category of the "self-inserts" type of fandom that Sakura's character possesses; hence it isn't solely about putting their favorite character in the top position, but themselves as well. The thing is, while I don’t disagree that Sakura is -in fact- a rather capable kunoichi, I don’t truly understand where her superiority comes from, so I shall try to break this down:

When it comes to power-comparison there’s a type of technique that gets particularly elevated above others: Physical strength (the type Sakura uses).

It’s likely that one of the main reasons why people hold this particular skill above the others is because it provokes (visible) physical trauma on the victims, while other techniques (such as genjutsu and some ninjutsu) are brushed off as uncomparable in the power-scale.

Seeing as Naruto manga made quite a spectacle of showing exactly how powerful a genjutsu can be and the relevance of intelligence-gathering skills and strategic thinking, the sudden degradation of those aspects in the kunoichi spectrum is rather telling of their bias; as canonically Ino won their match as she outsmarted Sakura and was forced to forfeit:

It can't also go unnoticed how popular her type of technique is in the western fandom (where most of her stans are from) -a characteristic that many famous superheroes that Hollywood introduced and perpetuated share, hence, the technique's relevance.

I know that “power” isn’t a synonym for “strong”, but these two concepts are quite often mixed giving Sakura a position in the power scale she does not possess.

There’re female characters that are often suspiciously absent or demoted (without the demoter presenting much -if any- evidence as to why would their favorite female character be able to surpass them) from such discussions, such as:

Mei Terumi: Mizukage who possesses not one, but two Kekkei Genkai (Lava Release and Boil Release), fought and intercepted multiple attacks from Madara Uchiha (while Tsunade herself wasn't able) who also complimented her.

Konan: She created paper manipulation ninjutsu and was able to force Obito to use Izanagi. Although I do believe it'll be a closer match between the two.

Chiyo: a woman who is a puppet master and a medic-nin, was able to create a Jutsu that brings back people from death (but dies in the process). She also has better reflexes than Sakura, despite the former being younger than her.

Kurotsuchi: Likely the strongest amongst them; possesses Lava-Release that she can transform into quicklime and stretch its corrosive range by combining it with Water Release.

It’s frequent to see these females being either ignored or downgraded for the purpose of highlighting Sakura's skills but none of them have to go anywhere near her in order to defeat her.

Sakura’s punches are effective as long as they make contact with the target, but her fans assume that because she’s a medic-nin she’s faster than any of them, despite them keeping up with powerful shinobi that not even Sakura could, such as Madara, Sasori, and Obito. To explain, medic-nins are taught to stay away from armed conflicts as they as medical support can't engage and get hurt, that's visible during Team 10 vs. Kakuzu and Hidan's fight, as Ino didn't engage during Chöji and Kakashi's fight as to keep a safe distance in case she was needed; this rule is not to be applied to those with the One thousand's strength seal (that Sakura canonically can't access until the War Arc) as they have three years of chakra storage to use to heal themselves should they need to. Again, they're told to stay far away from fights, not how to dodge as that has to do with the shinobi reflexes and overall speed.

As a personal note, since people might disagree, I think that none of the kunoichis inside the famous K-11 group are able to surpass or be equally strong as the “senior female characters” the manga introduces.

Besides the women I mentioned in the previous point, Tsunade is another victim of this practice -let’s remember: Sakura invented none of the techniques she uses, in that sense, Tsunade is far more useful in the grand scheme of things since she came up with Jutsus that compensated her “small” pool of chakra and was willing to pass on her knowledge. Furthermore, while -again- Sakura’s feats are not to be diminished, her fans consider she surpassed her mentor because she was able to:

a) Punch a God.

I’d like to add some things to this point: Sakura attacked Kaguya while she was distracted escaping both Naruto and Sasuke and by taking advantage of her blind spot. It’s still a feat -yet this context isn’t brought up.

Furthermore, I’ve literally read people diminishing Ino’s feat (to mention another K-11 kunoichi whose growth was shown during the War Arc) of connecting the entire Shinobi Alliance because “Naruto helped her with his chakra cloak, don’t try to reach”, yet Sakura punches Kaguya after receiving that help as well -why context matters in a case yet not in the other?

b) She had just achieved Bakugou and was able to summon Katsuyu and cure thousands.

She was able to do both because -again, she was taught by Tsunade, who invented and developed it (let’s remember that the technique allows both of them to store chakra and it’s the only reason why they were able to cure people with Katsuyu).

Sakura’s young age is often brought up, but are we forgetting that Tsunade (much older than Sakura and who used Creation Rebirth which shortens her life-span, hence why she needs to Henge herself as to appear younger) fought Madara, was cut in half, had enough chakra control to summon Katsuyu and cure four Kages and herself using the Bakugou seal that she replenished merely weeks after Pein’s invasion?

Of course, Sakura has “more time to improve her control” given her age, but people are assuming that because of her youth, she’ll undoubtedly reach that potential yet canonically, up until the last chapter of the manga, Tsunade is still quite superior.

Medical Ninjutsu and delicate chakra control

There’s a constant misconception in Naruto’s fandom about how Medical Ninjutsu works and the importance of Chakra control. Having delicate chakra control (delicate being the canon word used to describe Sakura’s control on her chakra flux) implies having control over a large sum of their own chakra in a small part of their body (palms) in order to release it either with their medical ninjutsu or, in the case of Sakura and Tsunade, their fighting technique (they don’t boost their physical energy, as they don’t use such control to run faster, for instance. Rather, they concentrate a large sum of their chakra on their fists and they release it upon contact).

This is canonically proven through the Byakugou seal, as both Tsunade and Sakura are able to save a total of three years of their chakra inside a small diamond-shaped seal that they need to release in order to use more energy-consuming jutsu: Mitochondrial Regeneration, summoning one-tenth of Katsuyu’s body, replenish people with larger chakra pools than them -like Obito or Onoki, and to have more powerful attacks.

“Chakra control” in the vast use of the term (nor “delicate” preceding it), has more to do with being able to withstand and use large sums of chakra, as Sasuke says “Naruto has control over this much chakra?” During their final fight –the more chakra the shinobi have, the more difficult to control and use it.

There’s a reason why Tsunade nor Sakura ever use complicated jutsu, as having delicate control over their chakra does not extend as much how many complicated techniques they can perform: To explain in lesser terms, the more complicated the jutsu, the more chakra it needs and neither Tsunade nor Sakura has a large pool as Sasuke or Naruto do. Their delicate control only means that they won’t waste any energy, as they can concentrate the required amount without wasting the rest; for instance, if a jutsu requires 80% of their energy, while the average shinobi will use at least 90% (wasting 10%), Sakura is able to delicately control her chakra to use only the 80% needed, while maintaining the 20% remaining. The primary difference between Naruto and Sakura is that, while a jutsu takes 80% of Sakura’s chakra, it takes, perhaps 10% (if he wastes a portion as he has less control over his energy) of Naruto’s, as he has immense reserves thanks to Kurama.  

Speaking of K-11 kunoichis, Sakura is always elected as the “strongest one” amongst them.

And yes, I do believe that Ino -I’ll use her since she’s Sakura’s rival and who was shown the most- would have troubles defeating Sakura in a physical match, Sakura would have a hard time trying to connect mentally with anyone: so why the parameters to decide who’s the “strongest” (often used as “better”, hence this example) accommodates solely Sakura’s techniques? And before people argue this by stating that Ino’s Jutsu is a Hidden Technique whilst Sakura isn’t: Sakura learned that technique from Tsunade -it isn’t a fighting style universally/publicly known. Both skills need specific parameters in order to be learned: One, naturally perfect chakra control, the other, being born in the Yamanaka clan.

I am not stating with this that Ino would be able to defeat Sakura, yet the fight wouldn’t be as “easy” as people make it seem: Ino doesn’t need to actually damage Sakura’s body (so the Creation Rebirth she can perform in order to heal wouldn’t be a decisive factor), and two -like I said- physical strength isn’t always a deciding winner -hell, Sasuke and Naruto were able to fool Zabuza, who clearly outmatched them both.

"But Sakura canonically broke free from Ino's Jutsu, so she'll do it again".

While that affirmation it's true, it's to be noted that the Inner-Sakura that allowed her to break free is nowhere to be seen in Shippuden. But if we decided that such detail isn't reason enough to assume Sakura wouldn't be able to break free again -which, is a fair point; we need to keep canon consistency and also assume, since Ino canonically outsmarted Sakura, that she will do so again.

In addition, during the War Arc Ino controls the Six-tailed V.2 version of Kinkaku before he could injure Shikamaru and without his assistance, as he broke free from his Jutsu (and before she received Naruto's chakra cloak). This only solidifies the notion that being physically stronger than a Yamanaka (in this specific case) means nothing as they can defeat you with the Shintenshin regardless, as the technique's weakness relies elsewhere upon.

Now, and I do admit my own bias for the aforementioned kunoichi (yet, I do believe I'm fair in judgment), why haven't I spoken about the other two kunoichis in K-11? Well, to be honest, I believe that Sakura would have more chances with both of them: Tenten and Hinata's attacks rely on physical damage and Sakura is able to instantly heal from those. But it is fair to assume Tenten, given her range and general performance would be able to hold herself far better in a match against Naruto's heroine. However, Hinata's taijutsu style would allow her to put Sakura in a difficult position should she be fast enough to strike without getting punched, but Hinata (out of all the kunoichis) is probably the slowest.

Sakura is an asset as a ninja in specific situations in the same manner other female characters are important in their chosen field -trying to diminish their relevance/power solely to put Sakura above them is a practice that not only personally annoys me but that it’s quite useless. I wouldn’t trust Sakura to infiltrate a secret organization: She wasn’t trained/nor did possess any technique to do so.

Ino specializes in a field that has nothing to do with Sakura’s expertise, as while Sakura is a front-lines combater, Ino gathers intelligence. In a way (minus the fact that they’re medic-nin so their survival is imperative, but let’s forget this idea for the sake of this example), Ino is one of the few shinobi whose survival is necessary in order to fulfill a mission; simply put, teams like Ino-Shika-Chö, who specializes in information gathering, not only are told to obtain answers and secret information, but they must guarantee at least one survivor that can transmit such knowledge (and Ino, as the primary figure of intelligence gathering giving her jutsu, is likely the one in charge of such task).

By the way the teams are divided, there’re three aspects that matter for the village’s success: Fighters (Team 7), Information gatherers (Team 10), and Trackers (Team 8). Few shinobi can fulfill the three roles with expertise (Sasuke and perhaps, if we are very generous with the “information gathering” aspect of the matter, Naruto -specifically, Naruto when in Senjutsu Mode). Sakura lacks information gathering or tracker skills, as she has no knowledge on how to infiltrate nor has any skill to track; Ino has fewer techniques when it comes to fighting, yet knows infiltration jutsus and has sensing skills (how is she less important than Sakura when without her the shinobi alliance wouldn't ve been able to communicate?), while Hinata has almost no fighting skills (she does possess the Gentle Fist, but the fact that she doesn’t like fighting and during the War Arc was likely the weakest when attacking white zetsus, plus the canonization of her being a housewife in present times, makes her the least capable amongst them) nor information gathering knowledge, but her Byakugan’s capabilities surpass even Neji’s.

Funnily enough, Kaguya is often brought up to give the debate some “seriousness” -of course, Kaguya isn’t a kunoichi, so she’s basically mentioned when discussing the “strongest female character” in the general aspect-, they often put her in the first place (because, well, she’s a God and had to be literally defeated by the two strongest characters in the manga), only to quickly add Sakura in the second position (most of the time the potential mentioned in the point 3.b is an important factor when justifying such decision yet that kindness isn’t giving to the rest of the young female-cast).

Is it really that important to elevate a female character above others? The so-called sisterhood that they claim to have when discussing them suddenly flies out the window if it means elevating their favorite (it happens in other fandoms, as well, but Sakura’s is the one where I see it often), they even masquerade their true desire by pointing out some “good qualities” of the other women, yet it comes off as condescending since they still perform many of the points mentioned above.

There’s also a relatively constant occurrence in the pro-fandom of the most famous female characters (and no, I do not mean the usual use of pejorative terms like "misogynist" against those who do not match their perspectives, which is also very common); which is the naturalization of the argument "why is it difficult for you to accept that X character is inferior?" (of course I’m paraphrasing, but this line -or versions of this line- can be observed in many of their posts/comments).

This is often brought up with the sole purpose of diminishing the “anti”’s arguments against the pro-fan favorite character, or in favor of their chosen character, without committing to the debate and presenting true evidence of their claims (which, unlike those of the antis, are true until proven wrong and not the other way around). In lesser terms, they demand the performance of a specific attitude/introspection that they’re not willing to conduct themselves.

Summarizing, debating who's the "strongest" or "better" kunoichi is nonsensical without establishing in which context are we putting these female characters as to "measure" them, the 'default' setting they use for this discussion favors solely Sakura's techniques -yet she isn't even the “strongest” one in those given parameters.

My point in this case is not to diminish anyone’s capacities, but honestly, the “who’s the most powerful kunoichi” debate became boring and incredibly sexist these past few years, as not only they encompass the idea of “power” solely inside the “physically strongest” spectrum –reducing women’s value around how hard they can punch (when Naruto, even as a Shönen, is constantly reminding us about the importance of someone’s strategic intelligence and/or information gathering skills; if you don’t believe me, re-read the Chünin Exams Arc), while also flattening an interesting debate in order to obtain a single “correct” answer (and this I place the blame on a portion of a very toxic fandom).

Don’t get me wrong, Sakura is the “strongest” (on combat terms) kunoichi of the new-gen, yet to claim she’s the most “powerful”, in the wider sense of the word, it’s at least debatable.

[torschlusspanikattack]

there’s a couple things that don’t sit right with me about this, but my thoughts are fairly scattered

for one, i think the conditions in a restaurant or other business could be bad enough that it would be unethical to be a customer and in that case, arguments about depriving the workers of pay by not being a customer would feel absurd (the complement to this being the conditions of labour for most prostitutes being that bad, which could be argued over, but merely establishing the principle here)

and for two, i don’t know if coercive labour and coercive sex are the same level of unethical, and would tend towards thinking they are not—i think if your boss forced you to do some labour task outside your role or beyond your hours without or any number of such situations, that would be bad, but everyone agrees the sexual version of that would be much worse, same with sexual harassment usually being worse than equivalent non-sexual harassment, etc

even at the extremes, even if forced to do labour, which is usually considered very bad, a form of slavery, at the lower time scale, they’re not considered equally bad at all—cf. being forced to do labour for a day vs any sexual equivalent, the disparity growing more severe the shorter the time period.

in many (to most depending on your framework) cases labour is coercive and applying the same analysis to prostitutes as other workers doesn’t change that

so in that sense, johns are purchasing coerced sex and the word we usually use for coerced sex is usually rape—there isn’t quite the equivalent for other labour bc we do not make a clear distinction for coerced labour (arguably bc it is very common, bordering on the norm)

i would be interested in seeing ways the needle can be threaded but it does seem like a clash between certain norms—like the sex positive-ish idea that sex is just another activity like rock climbing and sex work is just another job like dishwashing is tricky bc like pressuring your friend into rock climbing is shitty but it’s definitely not a crime and prob not even like an end to the friendship the same way something like cheating would be,

don’t want to get to into the grass with it, but like if we’re treating labour interchangeably, does that apply to agreements with your flatmates? generally considered fair to make your flatmates pitch in equal work to maintain the household and often do various types of labour that exist in paid forms, your (not like exclusively yours, the flatmate, possessively, but like the category? i think the category of words is what’s being possessed?) housecleaning and dishwashing and potentially meal-prep etc and what are the limitations of that framework in a context where sex work is interchangeable / equivalent to other forms of labour (tbh this last point is not particular important or anything, merely thoughts that occurred to me while making this post, i warned of the scatteredness of my response—)

radfems are mostly wrong bc you can’t apply class struggle analysis to sex/gender (kinda same thing, both ~fake, centring gender/sex distinction was a mistake) but i can’t get behind this pro-sex work (not merely pro-sex worker) sentiment that i see floating around, it’s not even a libfem thing either—usually also comes with this really offputting uwufication of johns too

also i’m coming around on sex worker just being a terrible term to be mainstreamed, the prevalence of the certain class of sex worker online completely distorts and collapses the relevant distinctions between someone selling niche fetishbait pics online and prostitution

also I have no idea why anyone would object to criticisms of johns bc they’re ’half the job’??? criticising the consumer isn’t anti-worker?

[padfootastic]

I’d also toss in (not that you don’t know this lol) that there’s a nuance to Sirius too. As plenty of authors have acknowledged, he’s a complex character to begin with—we have a lot of information about his family and background in the text that give us as readers/writers of fic the opportunity to examine how having grown up in those circumstances would impact him, but he’s also…not a one-note character?

My take on things is this: You can think Sirius is ‘dramatic’ AND recognize that he was level-headed and logical in situations when the trio contacted him for adult advice. There are a number of ways to balance those two things where you don’t reduce his character to (as you out in your tags) “Drama Queen Sirius Black,” but instead point out that a person can still be logical and enjoy their dramatics in situations where stoicism isn’t necessitated, you know?

There’s also a lot to be said for the fact that our introduction to Sirius comes after over a decade in prison, which quite obviously has impacted him, as it would anyone. Even if he was more dramatic or reckless in his youth, there’s ample evidence in the books that in most situations where his actions are directly connected to Harry/Harry’s livelihood, he’s doing his best to be cautious and thoughtful. He wants to be a good godfather to Harry, even if his last experience doing so was when he was a 21-year-old (which is a totally different experience than it may have been if he’d had a full 12 years post 1981 to learn what full-time parenting looks like).

The quote you referenced is a good example there too—he spent every year from 22-34 in prison, it’s not as if he was given much of a chance to experience a normal sense of maturity and adult responsibility before he was imprisoned. Obviously there was a war going on, but he didn’t get to, say, tacitly do his taxes and complain about the government over his morning tea during that time. He was just…stuck.

We don’t get much about azkaban as a prison (beyond some of the obvious descriptors), so there’s no textual evidence to say that he couldn’t have been developing other skills while there or having meaningful conversations with other prisoners about the world outside, but at the end of the day, he was still stuck. Even if he was reading the Prophet every day, there’s a hell of a difference between reading about the world and engaging with it, and an even larger one between reading about major historical events and taking part in them.

I think that’s analysis of “he’s basically still a 22-year-old” is probably one of the better arguments for a sense of impulsivity, because that would definitely be an adjustment for anyone to make, but even STILL, we see so much evidence of him trying to be a reliable and responsible person for Harry that it seems like a bit of a character assassination to only ever say that he was dramatic.

: o

i love this!! i’m a sucker for people more articulate than me (which is,,,most everyone lmao) actually putting this into proper words. you’re absolutely right that enjoying dramatics doesn’t have to take away from logical thinking (after all, i don’t think anyone would deny that snape wasn’t one for the ~drama while also being very competent at the same time). i guess it’s just that i don’t see even that kind of penchant for it in sirius in the first place, but that could definitely be a me thing.

i have a lot of thoughts about him being ‘stuck’ in azkaban and the kind of effects that would have on a young adults psycho-social development, so yes, that part would probably give the best rationale for impulsive sirius which makes it all the more weirder that it’s never used. only the DoM fiasco, being in hogsmeade, and molly/hermione’s words are. i don’t know if this is my sirius apologism showing but i feel like even him being stuck as a 22yo isn’t fair, considering how much we actually see from him in terms of showing responsibility, conflict management and response to trauma, dealing with children etc, especially in gof. his caginess in ootp can be attributed to factors outside his maturity/impulsivity levels too imo.

ultimately, i think sirius did his best to overcome the barriers (both internal and external) he did have to fulfill his duties as godfather and a member of the order. i think both of us agree that was quite clearly shown as well, so i guess it makes it even more frustrating that it’s glossed over for the most caricature-like of characterisations for him.

[aemiron-main]

Maybe you considered it an hate ask, even if i just pointed out that you are not really enjoying a villain character if you have to make up theories about how in reality he did nothing wrong ever. I am a Griffith apologist ( i don't know if you know the character but he's quite famous and in his story he did things that make Vecna looks like a toddler) so i know that liking a villain doesn't mean condone those acts in real life, and i hate when others suggest it. But, like i said, you are not analyzing a villain, you're making up a new different character and even if there is nothing wrong with it (this is a fandom and there is content drought) you are a little too presumptuous, always going on defensive mode if someone finds your theories a stretch.

Alright, so, you sent me two asks (and you’re the person who sent this ask), so I’m going to paste the first ask below & then respond to both.

“ you can't enjoy a villain character without making up stupid streched theories about alternative dimensions and pushing them as canon, so no, yours is not a "normal fandom behaviour" and by the way Henry is literally just some bad guy, he's basically Dark Eleven. He's not that deep, he's not Griffith from Berserk (that's a fascinating no pluridimensional villain character that can be analyzed endlessly and he is actually queercoded, henry can't relate i fear 🫢) ”

Look, anon, first of all, if any of what you’ve said was prompted by my posting tonight re: Dani, you must have missed the multiple times where I said that I don’t care about Dani’s takes on Henry or on my analysis- what I DO care about is being accused of forgiving real-life rapists based on my analysis posting about a fictional antagonist.

Also second of all re: a hate ask, I mean, what was I supposed to call it when you opened it by calling my analysis stupid?

I’m not forcing you to read my theories. I don’t care if you believe them or not- you’re the one coming into my inbox making assumptions about me and telling me my analysis is a reach.

You are making a lot of assumptions in this whole writeup. I’m not incapable of enjoying a villain- I simply have evidence to support that Henry isn’t the villain/that things are deeper than what’s presented on the surface level of the show. Hell, I’ve already said repeatedly that Henry being Vecna doesn’t change my opinion on Young Henry not being born evil, and also doesn’t prevent me with sympathizing with him or enjoying him as a character.

However, I simply don’t believe that he IS Vecna. I know lots of people on here analyze based on what they want to be true, but that certainly isn’t the case for me. I analyze based on trying to figure out what’s actually going on in the show, regardless of what I want to be happening.

If I wanted to enjoy Henry and be a full on apologist for everything Vecna’s ever done, then I would. I don’t need to invent any theories to do that. But I don’t think he’s Vecna, and I’m having fun analyzing the Edward subtext. Did it never occur to you that I’m also an Edward enthusiast in terms of enjoying “””””villain”””””” characters??? Or that I enjoy Brenner *as a well-written villain* and as a representation of abuse of power and predation and abusive systems? Which doesn’t align with the idea that I’m simply trying to invent things about Henry so that he’s not the villain. (Sure, I’m not a Brenner fan in the same way taht I’m a Henry or an Edward fan, but that’s because they’re different characters and even Vecna is more sympathetic than Brenner imo, but again, that’s part of Brenner’s character and it’s a good, effective part of it.)

And I’m absolutely normal fandom behaviour- in what world is analyzing the piece of media that a fandom is centered around not “normal fandom behaviour”? And “pushing them as canon”- you mean posting them on my own damn blog and responding to people like you who come into my inbox about it or responding to the weird rapist apologist accusations like tonight? Because I’m not pushing a single thing. And even if I was, who cares! Block me if you don’t want to see it, instead of wasting your time chastising me for interacting with media in the way I enjoy most (analysis).

Like, analysis IS the thing I enjoy most about fandom. I’m not just doing analysis so that I can try and enjoy a villain by making him not a villain- I’m doing analysis because it’s one of my favourite things to do, and because I want to try and get to the bottom of what’s actually going on in ST.

Have you actually read any of the posts? Do you have specific criticism or questions that I can address instead of vague assumptions about me?

And also, I’m not “making up” any character. Again, have you read the posts? Edward Creel is mentioned by name, on screen, with his backstory and timeline written out on screen, and then I’m extrapolating from that using literary analysis techniques (such as looking at subtext and how that subtext is conveyed by elements like repetition, parallels, intertextuality etc) & pulling that sort of evidence from the show.

I don’t just sit there and think of random things that I want to happen. If that was the case, my analyses wouldn’t be full of evidence/screenshots of the show. Even if I’m wrong about my conclusions, I’m not just pulling them out of thin air.

Your claim that I’m not analyzing anything is completely false, even if I’m completely wrong about everything, I’ve still been doing analysis, you can still look through and see what connections I made and what evidence I used to make those connections and how I came to my conclusion based on what we see in the show.

Also, I’m standing outside right now and too damn tired to talk about Griffith because that’s neither here nor there.

Also RE: Henry not being queercoded, that’s honestly a whole other post on its own, but he definitely has significant queercoding- or do you just think that the rant about hating the standard stereotypical reproduction/expectations for relationships while standing in a room full of rainbows and then going on to talk about being “broken” and sent to a lab that has very strong conversion therapy parallels (with Brenner also being extremely similar to Robert Galbraith Heath but again that’s all a big post on its own but is something I’d be happy to expand on when I’m not literally standing outside waiting for a skunk to leave the front porch so I can go inside LMAO) and being extremely paralleled to Will, one of the main gay characters, was all a coincidence?

And also, it’s interesting that you’re accusing me of being presumptuous and too defensive when you’re the one who came in here making assumptions about me and calling me stupid. Of course I’m defensive sometimes- you would be too if you were being called an idiot rapist apologist and being told that your stupid theories are stretches every other day, all from people who haven’t even taken the time to try and approach those theories with an open mind.

I’ve responded constantly and politely and non-defensively to posts that are genuine questions or genuine criticism of my theories, such as in this post. But I don’t see why I should be expected to extend that same courtesy to people who can’t even extend me the courtesy of reading the posts they’re critiquing.