#i feel like a rewatch is in order im already forgetting details in the show ncnnfnfn

[loversarcanas]

hmmm Arcane for the fandom ask game...?

yeahhhhh thank you!!! <33

blorbo: JINX I love her so much she means so much to me fr 💖💖💖 she's my daughter but like she's also me u know

scrunkly: EKKO I love he I love the boy he's everything <3 son boy with the character design ever

scrimblo bimblo: I feel like they're aren't really any underrated characters on arcane??? so im gonna put Mel here bc I have a good holy lesbian breakdown every time I see her on screen

glup shitto: mel's MILF of a mother Ambessa I would be her footstool upon request unfortunately

poor little meow meow: I feel like JINX also fits this category TBH but I support women's wrongs so im putting her here again <3

horse plinko: MYLO.

eeby deeby: FUCK SILCO I know he's a complicated character and he's been through his own kind of hell but I still hate him I would send him to superhell without a moments notice

[n-ugg]

I didn't expect to get tagged but here we are. As you all will be able to tell in a bit, I am a massive Quackity fan

Thank you for tagging me @skeetlehands!

who is your favourite member on the smp?

Look, I love them all but these have a special place in my heart.

Quackity, Slimecicle (I am fully aware he just joined but I still love him), Schlatt, Tubbo, Eret, AweSamdude, and Ponk.

They're just great in and out of character and just have comforting vibes.

when did you first start watching the smp and what made you get into it?

I gotten in during the Pogtopia era since it took me a while to get access to the streams.

I mainly gotten in with the Sad-ist War animatics along with me trying to catch up on Quackity's VODS. Just someone that I was already familiar with being an easier shift into story and learning others through him

what is your favourite part about watching the smp?

Just watching everyone interact with other and just seeing the plot progress in real time. Its literally just dnd but with extra steps but I enjoy it so much

The improv that they all do is amazing and how everyone have different approaches to their characters makes my writer's side so happy with dissecting everything.

What piece of cursed lore is your favourite

That Wilbur canonically fucked a fish and Philza canonically fucked a Samasung fridge and just seeing the fanbase try to change into something that will at least make a bit more sense.

Im included in this, I basically joined the side that has Sally being a mermaid shapeshifting pirate. Mainly because of pirate Fundy

Who is your favorite duo on the smp

Slimecicle and Ranboo: They're the same person but in different fonts, you can convince me otherwise

Schlatt and Quackity: They managed to be super funny together with all of the jokes and balanced with making a very realistic abusive relationship work. It was always fun seeing them flirt with each other for a joke then get hit with whiplash when canon comes in to remind me that this isnt healthy

Tubbo and Tommy: They're two dumbasses who share the same braincell but then they constantly lose it and Tubbo mainly has custody of it

Wilbur and Schlatt: I just enjoy seeing Schlatt messing with Wilbur and occasionally flirts with him to get Wilbur more pissed off

Who are your comfort streamers

Quackity and Slimecicle are comfort streamers

Eret, Fundy, and AweSamdude are my comfort people (meaning I dont watch them as much but I find comfort in their presence. And the other two are also under this category)

Who is your favorite character

Quackity due to how complex his character is and yet how it looks so simple

Schlatt because is just a villian who knows how to play the game without getting caught

Tubbo, watching him trying to be hopeful with everything destroy around him and he just slowly become used to everything going wrong

AweSamdude because he is just trying his best to be a father figure others and I just got family issues

Who do you think the best actor(s) on the smp

Imma skip over the ones that we all already said and get into the ones that dont get enough praise

Quackity: Just how he managed to make his character seem so basic but in reality its really complex. And just seeing the shift from him being a chaotic force of nature to being a serious character that is trying his best to reach something that has been hanging over his head is just *chefs kiss* and he always delivers amazing lines on the spot.

BadBoyHalo: He is doing great right now, even though he is a bit rusty with starting he still manages to get into character and stay in character the entire time. When slowly easing in, you can tell its a bit forced but once he finds his footing, he knows how to deliver his lines.

AweSamdude: His entire bit where he was getting rescued from the egg fucking hurt. How he sounded weak from the entire thing and tired to where he just wanted to rest was so well. And I know he can act more energetic when he was accidentally dragged into playing a cop during Quackity's and Bad's date

Fundy: You guys need to give him more praise for his acting because he is fucking amazing at it. The little touches to how he voice when speaks is so good along with his body language in game. He knows what he's fucking doing and I love him for that. And when he snapped, it made complete sense if you payed attention to his character

I didnt add Ranboo because he's automatically at the top section due to him being a dnd player. Same goes to Slimecicle even though he hasnt acted yet. I dont make the rules. You play dnd, you know how to act

What are your favorite quotes

I dont have favorite quotes, just dialog heavy scenes.

Before Doomsday, Quackity going to take his horse far away from L'Manberg, it being the one thing he cares about. It was just so good

The entire Schlatt and Quackity argument in front of the white house

The meeting between Schlatt and Quackity with Schlatt yelling out to him in a taunting way to where Tommy and Quackity are trying to figure out what happened to the tnt. I constantly rewatch it to feel the adrinaline pumping to feel something

Wilbur's slow descend into insanity and talking to Tommy. Just showing his paranoia and fears consuming him, him projecting his fears into Tommy as an attempt of manipulation, and his hero complex shift into villian one

Schlatt's winning speech of him projecting it as something that was bound to happen no matter what. The amount of charisma and confidence that was in his voice as I was watching Tommy hiding underground in fear was just a perfect scene

Tommy's argument with Dream when everyone is protecting Tommy. Its the small details of Tommy taunting Dream to kill him, knowing he wont no matter what. Him telling everyone to protect Tubbo and everyone listening without hesitation.

The debate that Quackity and Dream had for like 11 or 14 minutes. All of that was completely unprompted unscripted, it was just so satisfying seeing someone stand up against Dream for the first time and actually beating him. Sure it was in a verble conflict but it still counts as a defeat

Be honest, who do you simp for? (Ayo if anyone says Tommy or Tubbo I will🗡)

Schlatt, Quackity, and Slimecicle

Its pretty obvious, I dont really try to hide it

Whats your favorite stream

Uhhhh I dont exactly have one so none I guess

Whats your least favorite streams

Im sorry, but all of the Jackbox stream. You need a specific group of people to play together in order to actually make it funny and keeping the energy throughout the entire thing.

After a bit later, everyone has a tendency of pandering to the audience and repeat jokes. They managed to beat jokes to the ground faster than Tiktok AND Twitter.

Dont get me started with DreamTeam being in there. They're funny in thier own rights but the shipping jokes get so unfunny so quick and they dont know how bounce off of others well. The only exception to this is when Quackity, Velvet, and Ant were playing with Sapnap and Dream. And thats because they decided to mess with the straight white guys into accidently saying offensive shit and seeing those two suffer with trying tiptoe around was so amusing

Whats something about the smp fandom thay makes you sad

This doesnt get me sad, just frustrated and its mostly towards dsmptok and dsmptwt but sometimes this fandom doesnt fucking know how to analyze characters. Like when everyone jumped on Tubbo on being the bad guy when he was a kid trying to use old tatics that knows that worked before and stand up for himself

How when one person decides to do something that they believe is right, everyone just throws the term villian arc around

When one person does one good thing the suddenly everyone accepts into them being good and not ever looking into it.

For fucks sakes, I saw people keep saying that Quackity was turning into Dream or Wilbur and I just sat there being confused on how they conntected those dots that were in different books.

Its so frustrating to read through. But here on dsmpblr, you guys actually understand character analysis, are able to critique them and able to love whoever you enjoy.

Another thing is how this fanbase really puts everyone on a pedestal or objectify them. Just completely forgetting that they're human and treat the streamer as a character. Like, yeah they're playing up a persona whenever they're making content but theres a difference and you shouldn't hold them up like that.

You cant use the argument of "They're young, they dont know any better", when I first entered my first fandom (I was like 11/12), I fully understood that theres a boundary between me and the creator. What they are on screen is a persona but they're still human and I should treat them as such. Its just something that bugs me and its unnerving to see whenever people start getting wierd about it

Final bit is just how the twitch chat acts. They all force the streamer to follow the 'main' plot of it being Tommy or Techno or whoever the fandom chooses to have a favorite, completely ignoring the fact that they are their own character. No one wants to meta game because where is the fun in that but the fucking chat gets so annoying when the streamer goes against fanfavorite of the week. It drains the fun of it being multiple pov's and different characters.

When Slimecicle was barely starting stream I saw so many people spam "Go with Ranboo" and not let him even get into lore first. I hated that I knew it was coming but it was still so fucking frustrating seeing them try to boss him around. Please just let people live outside of the 'main' plot, not everything revolves around your favorites. Now shut the fuck up and let them play

What about the smp fandom that makes you happy?

The people that create art, animatics, theories, playlist, or write oneshots

All of you creators are great and deserve so much more respect then what the fandom gives you because jesus fucking christ they're all so fucking rude. You guys are the ones that are carrying this fandom on your backs and I fucking respect yall for that

________________

Time for da spead: @nixavia @dambette404 and @mocha-is-lost yall dont need to join.....unless😳😳😳

[snkpolls]

SnK S3E08 Poll Results (Manga Reader Version)

The poll closed with 368 responses. Thank you to everyone who participated!

Please note that this is the results of the manga reader poll. Anime only watchers are suggested not to read if you do not wish to be spoiled about certain events! Anime only viewers, click here to view your poll results!

RATE THE EPISODE 352 Responses

84% of total respondents gave the episode a 4 or 5 star rating. The episode this week was overall considered very enjoyable!

kinda average,some cuts didnt make sense,lets see if the next one is good.

This episode was so great, I really enjoyed it! But there are still things that are bothering me.

This episode was fricking amazing.

All in all, one of the best episodes in the season for me, hands down.

I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next ep.

Amazing as always! ❤️

WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING SCENES WERE YOUR FAVORITES? 356 Responses

Eren making his move in order to protect his friends was the overall favorite scene of the episode. Closely behind is Squad Levi showing up to save Eren and Historia. Despite some upset about the change, the scene where Levi tells Historia she has to become the queen ranked third.

The hardest question for me to answer was what my most favourite scene was because frankly speaking, none of the “big” and “impressive” scenes made an impact on me. I just rewatched S2 and was blown away by how the last few episodes especially were so well done. I wish this season makes me feel the same way later on.

Historias Speech before Levi squad gets there had so much feels

WHICH CHARACTER INTERACTION WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 354 Responses

There were lots of good character interactions this week. Most shippers seemed quite happy with theirs. The most loved moment of the episode, however, was Mikasa joking with Historia that she should punch Levi in the face. Closely behind was Levi lamenting having to tell Eren to make a choice again, and in third was Historia’s speech while saving Eren.

ALL OF THE ABOVE. YOU CANT MAKE ME PICK ONE HOW DARE YOU

They cut it out T.T

Oof, too many can't chose. Historia and Eren, Mikasa saving Historia, Jean and Historia motivating Eren, Levi apologizing to Eren, Sasha and Eren, Eremin hand touch <3, Levi and Erwin, Hange and Historia, Jean and Connie stepping in for Historia.....

Historia refusing the plan to let Eren be eaten by Rod-EREHISU4LYFE

That beautiful "Danchou" made me WEAK.

I like two: Mikasa x Historia and Mikasa telling Historia to punch Levi.

Every Levi & Eren interaction! So many Ereri moments in this episode ~

Kenny

MikaHisu is sailing hard

Levi and Eren interactions were amazing ♥

bjitch you think I'm neutral enough about snk to pick one think again

Character moments and interactions are what truly make this series for me.

I really enjoyed Hange's contribution to the discussion about Eren's and Rod's fates. The music, the flaming titan in the background, Hange pointing at it, and the overall drama of the conversation was on point!

BEST TITAN STEAM WINDBLOWN HAIR: 357 Responses

Levi won this overall, but plenty of voters appreciated that we put Connie in the rankings despite being bald! ;)

ROD REISS’ TITAN IS ALL CGI - HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS? 356 Responses

Nearly half of voters were surprisingly content with the CGI and thought that it added more disgust and hugeness to Rod’s titan. Looks like WIT utilized the CGI well this time around!

Hi WIT what the fuck

I didn't really like the CGI in season 2, but to be honest I expected it for the turkey titan and holy hell does it look big 10/10

I don't mind it too much, but i think traditional animation would be better.

I remember this feeling of absolute horror and disgust when I first saw Rod Reiss' titan back in the manga but the memes over the years made me forget. Wit has very successfully brought those feelings to the fore again, and goddamn I get shudders even now and I've rewatched the episode twice already.

I'm halfway though... A part of me wanna see turkey titan moving. A part of me actually prefer worm titan coz it is more disgusting. Anyways CGI are overdone in this scene. Wonder if the face reveal will be as disgusting as the rest of the body

I was worried about it at first glance as the Colossal Titan in season 2 was too out of place, but it worked and probably helped that Rod’s Titan can’t stand upright.

It’s tacky but I’m here for it

Looks great in some scenes... kinda shitty in others :/

MEEEAAAAAATTTTLLOOOOOAAAFFFF

The cgi is disgusting but I like it like that. It's like your ugly child, you still like it. Plus if it's allows them to reduce the time and the cost of the animation I'm fine with it. I'd rather have an aime with a bit of cgi every year than no anime at all or a season every 4 years.

im scared

Yummy yummy meatloaf.

DO YOU THINK KENNY CARED FOR HIS SQUAD? 357 Responses

Overall, the majority of voters agree that Kenny cared about his squad. Only slightly less than half of those voters believe that he still valued himself more, though.

He was concerned for their safety but was also probably like "do you guys not have any self preservation?

Maybe? I don't know, lol. We didn't see him interact with them much.

Kenny probably cared about them a bit but didn't feel any deep bonds with them.

I think he mostly cared about Traute because she was his second in command, not to mention her nihilistic nature was exciting for him.

Idk

WHOSE PEP TALK TO EREN WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 355 Responses

HIstoria’s words to Eren while he was certain they were all going to die won for the best pep talk. Not far behind was Levi telling Eren to make a choice. Jean’s commentary about Eren never being able to do anything by himself also got a decent amount of votes!

YOUR REACTION TO EREN’S DECISION TO BELIEVE IN HIMSELF? 355 Responses

Overall, voters had a positive reaction to Eren’s decision to believe in himself instead of his friends.

EREN WAS GREAT AND I M SO PROUD.

Attack titan's big dick energy saved them all.

HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT JEAN AND CONNIE’S COMMENTS DEFENDING HISTORIA? 351 Responses

73% of voters were happy to see Jean and Connie sticking up for Historia. 17% weren’t invested, while others think that the scene was shoehorned in and unneeded.

Connie and Jean are definitely best boys (and underrated imo) and I loved that they gave them this filler scene but I feel like it would've made even more sense if they would've animated the wall scene from Chapter 51. Still loved this though. <3

Poor Connie, he didn't know what words to use. I'm glad Jean helped him out :) They're great friends.

I felt like they (WIT) messed up a great scene from the manga and didn't add anything of a value to that scene

It makes a lot of sense that Connie would jump in Historia's defense to prevent her from taking another role given that he was there to witness her shedding one during Utgard. And while Jean's is great, it works better at cementing his tumultous relationship with Levi and how he works as the voice of Springlestein.

While I like the concept of the 104th kids showing their concern for Historia, the dialogue pretty much spelled out Historia's character arc and felt incredibly forced and on the nose

It's a decent part of a scene that shouldn't have been changed.

On the fence because it seemed very filler

Connie and Jean r protecting their wife

WHICH OF LEVI’S DOUBLE ENTENDRES WAS YOUR FAVORITE? 352 Responses

It was a hard choice, but the majority of you appreciated those classic double entendres--with “That’s what I call hardening” taking the lead while 34.9% of you made us feel really attacked.

EREN MENTIONED INVESTIGATING HIS OLD BASEMENT IN SHIGANSHINA - WHERE’S THE KEY? 353 Responses

41% of voters believe that Eren is still in possession of the key but that the detail is simply overlooked Because Anime™. 30% believe the key was stored away for safekeeping due to the potential of Eren getting kidnapped. A small percentage believe that either Levi, Mikasa or Armin had it the whole time. A few of you think Eren is hiding it in less appropriate places and make us very concerned.

Shit. Fuck. I completely forgot about the key...

Erwin has it

I never noticed that even in the manga LMAO

Hell if i know

I didn't even care before this question and I won't start caring now lmao

Plothole

Stolen by Rod when they took his shirt. He just hasn't realized it yet.

this question is going to haunt me for eternity

Eren hid it in his asshole. No one would look there, that smart guy!

He keeps key in his ass

In his ass

up dat booty

HOW’D YOU FEEL ABOUT JEAN CALLING EREN A “TOPLESS WIMP” INSTEAD OF A SHIRTLESS WONDER? 356 Responses

The votes on this question were relatively balanced. Most voters just see it as a translation difference with no other meaning to it, while closely behind are those who preferred “shirtless wonder”. A small amount are looking forward to hearing how Funimation chooses to script this in the dub.

DID YOU MISS LEVI’S SALTY COMMENT - “JUST HOW SHITTY CAN THIS DAY GET”? 357 Responses

The majority of voters agreed that salty Levi would have been nice to keep around. 33% didn’t even realize the quote was missing!

more salty levi is required

HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THEM ANIMATING THE COLLAPSE OF THE CHAPEL AND THE GROUND? 354 Responses

Nearly 77% of voters were thrilled to see the chapel and ground collapsing. 12% didn’t think it was all that special.

WERE YOU EXCITED TO SEE EREN’S HARDENING POWER ANIMATED? 356 Responses

65% of respondents were happy to see the hardening in action and thought WIT did a great job with it. 14% were happy to see it, but felt a bit underwhelmed. 11% preferred the mystery in the manga.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE SCENE WITH EREN CALLING ROD TITAN A MIDGET AND PUNCHING THE AIR BEING REMOVED? 357 Responses

Nearly half of voters aren’t happy that WIT cut this detail out, because it showed that Eren can’t activate the coordinate as he pleases. 23% are confident that the scene will be moved to on top of the wall in the next episode. 14% didn’t care.

Why didn't they do the scene with Eren yelling at Rod's Titan?

I don't think that comment would've fit the tone of the scene. I'm hoping that it will be made clear that Eren normally can't use the power some other way.

I am so so angry that this scene was cut!! Not only was it HILARIOUS but it was a small moment of reprieve from the heavy atmosphere and I am so bitter about its removal!

I’m guessing they’ll be moving that scene to the top of the wall in the next episode

I’m okay with what WIT did, but it would’ve been nice too to see it animated.

I’m just salty it got removed. I personally thought it was hilarious and added comedic relief. Same goes for hange telling Erwin she’s ok - they really cut that scene down.

I miss that it was removed, but it was a bit comedic and would've added some flak to the scene

Very very disappointed. But not because it erased the hint about how the axe works but because of Levi's reaction! Goddammit wit not again!

I don't remember that one o.o I should re-read the manga I think XD

They'll probably move the scene to the next episode or have an equivalently expository scene later.

WE FINALLY GOT  THE SCENE WHERE LEVI TELLS HISTORIA SHE NEEDS TO BE QUEEN - WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? 354 Responses

With the top two options being at nearly a tie, 25.1% still believe that the scene should have been included before the kidnapping - brutality included - and 24.9% were just happy to have it although the characterization of Historia and Levi feels changed. 23% agreed that the change was needed as Levi lifting Historia at this point in the story would no longer make any sense. 17% preferred the change and felt it gave Historia more agency over her situation.

Considering this scene took place after the kidnapping it wouldn’t make sense for Levi to get angry and attack her but the scene was pretty underwhelming compared to the manga. Although I’m just glad that this means we still get to see Historia punch Levi (even if he hadn’t really done anything to deserve it in this version).

I feel like Historia accepted her fate as the new queen way too fast.

They should’ve added it before the Levi Vs Kenny fight. It was important to both of their characters and I’m still pissed WIT cut Levi’s speech out.

While it would have been great to see a little more irrational side of Levi, the change fit in very well and helped establish the relationships of Squad Levi

It should have being either included in it original form before the kidnapping or dropped all together including payoff with punching and smiling. Now it makes little sense for Mikasa to suggest something like that or for Historia to feel that way, we also lost asshole Levi moment, which would had add a dimension to his anime version. But oh well.

They should’ve added it before the Levi Vs Kenny fight. It was important to both of their characters and I’m still pissed WIT cut Levi’s speech out.

Meh. Anime wants to have a cake and eat a cake. At least they are hilarious!

Why do you guys want to see a grown man throw around a little girl so much? Gross! Grow up! I couldn't be happier with the way that scene change went! As well as Mikasa's being the one to get Reeves' line about punching Levi - I think it both fits and is unexpectedly cute.

i wish they kept the scene like in the manga because it really builds up anger in historia that she later releases by her big AckerPunchTM

MIKASA TELLS HISTORIA TO PUNCH LEVI INSTEAD OF DIMO REEVES. WAS THIS A GOOD CHANGE? 357 Responses

At a pretty even split, the most votes went toward believing that the scene was okay, but still preferring the manga’s turn of events. 24% believed that the way WIT did it was funnier. 22% feel like Mikasa’s comment is out of the blue. 21% are just happy Mikasa saved Levi’s smile.

The feeling that I got from Mikasa's smile/smirk was that she JOKINGLY suggested that Historia hit Levi, mostly because she's not his biggest fan and she enjoys messing with people (for example, eating the bread in front of Sasha, and the funny expression she elicited from Historia by saying this). Mikasa is going to be surprised (and ofc delighted) when she realizes Historia actually took her literally lmao

Why did Mikasa told Historia to punch Levi? Historia has no reason to punch him since he did nothing to her. It doesn't make any sense for her to hit him just because Mikasa told her to, or at least it has so much less meaning than in the manga…

About the punch, I still prefer the way the event happened in the manga but IM SO FUCKING GLAD THAT NOW WE KNOW WE GONNA SEE THAT BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL SMILE

WHICH SCENE FROM THE PREVIEW ARE YOU MOST LOOKING FORWARD TO? 358 Responses

32% of voters are pumped to see Rod’s gruesome titan face looming over the wall. 25% are excited to see Eren punch the brat out of himself, 20% are ready for Smol to chat with Tol an 14% are looking forward to seeing Eren fighting in his titan form again.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THE EPISODE?

A lot of people yelling at WIT. Sure, I miss some of the exclusions too but the pacing change was needed and stuff has to be cut. The important bits of the story are still all there. I think they're doing a fantastic job and I'm almost sure Isayama gave his thumbs-up for all the changes.

Thanks wit for giving us so much mikasa this episode. My daughter deserves all that screentime ❤️😍

i get meatloaf titan and eruri. i am a happy boi.

The soundtrack was fuking amazing 😚👌 as always

Since there were no questions about the soundtrack I'll use this place to try to convert everybody to the Sawanism. God the music was a masterpiece!

The CGI worm titan was such an alienating thing to witness that it took away from the horror of the situation. It might have looked really hideous as this creepy-crawly giant thing of a titan, but sadly it just didn't work. On second viewing, it didn't bother me as much as the first time, though, so I guess one can get used to it.

I don't know if any of the music was new or not but wow!!! It made those scenes feel so much more emotional

RIP Traute Caven, our nihilist queen

Levi is a much sweeter version of himself in the anime, I've noticed. In fact nothing is as dark as it was in the manga. But Accordion Titan is way creepier animated so no complaints there.

I'm kinda disappointed that WIT remove some Frieda flashbacks, (last episode with the possessed Frieda scene missing, and here Historia not thinking about her alongside Ymir) it reduces the impact she has on Historia's life/development.

I was watching it in the night, so it gave me some double thrills :D Rod's titan was really creepy and Sawano's music made him to be even more scary. In my opinion the animation was awesome. It looked much better than I expected. The whole extreme moments in the cave was also amazing and I truly liked them.

For once WIT did eremin some justice with their reunion touch (my heart!), every mikahisu moment was perfect (yes, even the one at the end where mikasa tells historia to punch levi) and I ADORED that they gave historia so much agency in her decision to become queen! Honestly if I had to watch Levi rough her up at this point in the series, I probably would've vomited. It would've been incredibly unnecessary (which is likely why isa changed it, don't y'all think?) and this way was SO MUCH BETTER. Plus jean and conny being so concerned for her was THE BEST THING EVER, they're just like "but dad, what about my friend's FEELINGS?" and I LOVED IT. That's snk at its core tbh. Historia definitely deserves it too. And her power walk into the briefing room afterward was everything! In conclusion! Eremin is real! Mikahisu is real! And erurihan is fuckin real! That "danchou" had me FLOORED and we already know how much both erwin and levi love hange so like.. get with the winning team y'all.

Armin described the moment Rod's titan came out from under the chapel as something like "the end of the world". Between the music and his nightmarish CGI look, I was sold on that description. Oh, and since I mentioned music, Sawano's at it again, the absolute madman! Will he ever stop coming up with good tunes? The answer is never.

My ovaries are ready for wet cast in next episode!!

WHERE DO YOU PRIMARILY DISCUSS THE SERIES? 337 Responses

Thanks again to everyone who participated! We’ll see you again on Tuesday!

[mittensmorgul]

I've had some anons who have been concerned that this episode is heralding a return of the codependency dynamic, but I think that’s leaving out a huge part of what 12.09 was hammering home, and completely ignoring what that experience was for Dean.

We encountered this exact same difficulty with 11.17, Red Meat. For my money, that episode was a HUGE turning point for Dean, and I was shocked that so many people seemed to react to it negatively, believing that it was only reinforcing the codependency, because I saw it as the exact opposite, and I have talked about that fact AT LENGTH. I mean, see pretty much my entire 11.17 tag for reference purposes. If you don’t have time to wade through all 

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/150593470245/if-you-think-that-there-was-any-growth-for-dean (which is pretty much summed up with the quote “Maybe try watching it again without the presumption that the show is trying to show you the absolute worst version of everything.”)

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/142206972625/mittensmorgul-i-watched-1117-again-today-and

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/142033546845/im-rewatching-the-episode-just-to-point-out-some (which is literally 4k+ words on the episode)

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/142551724425/winjennster-gillasue345-winjennster

I mean, there’s more, but I’ve got other stuff to do today besides rehash 11.17... :D

But saying that Dean called Billie in with the sole intent of sacrificing himself to save Sammy? THAT’S ERASING PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT DEAN’S CHARACTER GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PILOT EPISODE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF FORCING YOURSELF TO FEEL ANGRY AT THE SHOW.

So, maybe own that, internalize it, and then look at the ENTIRE text in context without cherry-picking the details that support the negative argument you’re trying to make.

(sorry if I sound a bit angry/wanky there, but some of my anons are clearly coming from a place of deep anger about this issue, and it’s just not what I saw in that episode, or with Dean, AT ALL, so... yelling at me isn’t gonna change reality)

Let me explain.

From the pilot episode, Dean Winchester has been the Official Poster Boy for Abandonment Issues. He’d been fine hunting on his own for a while. He was hurt when Sam left the family to go to college, but Dean carried on hunting with John. At some point, knowing that John was hunting and Sam was safe at Stanford, Dean was content to hunt on his own, BECAUSE his family was still accounted for, even if they weren’t physically present in his life. The thing that drove him to finally beg for Sam’s help? The fear that John might’ve been injured and/or killed on a hunt. THAT was what Dean couldn’t face alone:

Dean: I can’t do this alone. Sam: Yes, you can. Dean: Yeah, well... I don’t want to.

Dean 100% thought he was going to go looking for John and find his body. He couldn’t face that alone, despite having been hunting on his own for a while by that point. It was the loss he couldn’t face alone.

Over the years, the ONE THING that has frightened Dean the most has been ABANDONMENT. BEING ALONE IS DEAN WINCHESTER’S #1 FEAR AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. PERIOD. THE END.

I’d pull references for this fact, but it was essentially the driving force of the entire series, so, may I direct you to like every episode of Supernatural ever...

Dude stoically stared down Lucifer and shot him in the face. He walked alone into a pizza parlor and shared a slice with Death. He went into a diner having prepared himself to let the Mother of all Monsters BITE HIM in order to kill her. He, a human being, was the most terrifying thing in Purgatory, to the point the monsters whispered scary stories about HIM.

He’s not afraid of anything. Except being alone with himself.

To Dean, there has been no greater threat, no more terrifying fate, than what Amara proposed (and what Billie proposed) in s11. The Darkness, The Empty. They both essentially amounted to the same thing. Both were coded as metaphors for depression, suicide, annihilation of self.

Literally they were threatening him with the complete annihilation of his soul. These things were held up like a mirror to Dean in 11.17 and again via his extreme isolation in that prison cell in 12.09.

The prison cell was as close to the Empty as we could possibly put Dean without actually rending his soul into nothingness. This was absolutely lampshaded by Agent Camp’s little speech from the promo clip, when he was explaining exactly how he intended to torture Sam and Dean. (lucky me, I’m about 2/3 done with the transcript of the episode. This is unedited, but largely complete.)

I don’t believe in torture. Doesn’t work. Oh, I’ve seen folks waterboarded, cut on. And they talk. Ooh, they do. But they never tell you what you need. You know what does work, though? Every time? Nothing. [Sam looks up at Camp at that] CAMP: See, when I leave, that door closes, and it stays closed, [scene shifts back to Dean] and you stay in the dark. Now, maybe that doesn’t sound so bad. [Camp moves so he’s leaning down in front of Sam] CAMP:  But after a month? [scene shifts to Camp leaning identically in front of Dean] A year? You spend enough time staring at these walls, just you and all that nothing, [shift back to Sam] you’ll get so crazy to talk, to see someone real, you’ll tell me exactly what I need. You’ll tell me with a smile. [Shifts back to Dean] CAMP: It’ll just take some time. [Camp leans back against the wall opposite Dean again with his arms crossed, with multiple shifts back and forth to Sam and Dean] Of course, the thing is, after what you did, no one’s in a hurry to get you that phone call. So you and me, we got all the time in the world. [Sam’s cell door slams shut and we see him flinch, Dean’s cell door slams shut hiding him from view]

We saw Sam flinch twice-- first at Camp’s use of the word “Nothing” to describe the method of torture he preferred, after describing waterboarding and cutting. THIS was what got Sam’s attention. Sam’s experience of being locked away, potentially for an eternity, was closer to what Camp described before, with the constant physical torture. Because THAT was Sam’s idea of torture. Yes, we’ve seen him endure it with a hearty SCREW YOU, but this isolation is something Sam is at least a little more psychologically prepared to accept than his brother is.

Because to Dean? Isolation is literally worse than his experiences in hell. Worse than 30 years of being tortured by the most accomplished torturer the universe has ever seen. And then 10 years of torturing others in turn... which to Dean ended up being even WORSE than actually BEING tortured.

Also, what was Dean’s first experience upon arriving in Hell? What was his Welcome to Hell reception area experience?

UTTER ISOLATION! BOUND BY CHAINS! COMPLETE LOSS OF FREE WILL!

Let’s not forget the shot where we reached this point by zooming into Dean’s eye until it blurred with the chains and nothingness inside his own mind... I’m sure that wasn’t a metaphor for Dean’s psyche or anything...

THIS. IS. DEAN’S. PERSONAL. HELL.

Throughout s11, Dean was confronted with these themes in the form of his guilt over the previous season and a half while dealing with the Mark of Cain. This emptiness, the absolute TERROR of the Loss of Self... I mean... going back to 10.09, this was literally his nightmare. Loss of self to the darkness of the Mark. It was his horrifying train of thought while talking to Len in 11.05 about what it was like to have lost his soul.

And Dean’s literal nightmares over the course of the entire series have revolved around loss, loss of self, and abandonment.

Can you begin to see why Dean broke first in the muggle version of The Empty? Locked away, alone, with nothing for company but his looooong history of guilt, depression, and abandonment issues? With nothing to break up the monotony but the thrice daily shout of CHOW TIME! and a screw to etch eternal hash marks into his concrete box?

THIS WAS EFFECTIVELY THE WORST THING THAT DEAN COULD EVER POSSIBLY IMAGINE HAPPENING TO HIM, SHORT OF UTTER OBLIVION.

I mean, in comparison, the Empty sounds pleasant. At least he wouldn’t have to EXPERIENCE all that nothingness, because he would’ve ceased to be.

THAT BOX WAS WORSE THAN HELL TO DEAN WINCHESTER.

I already replied to another anon shortly after the episode aired, and touched on this there:

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/156426851620/i-was-reading-your-post-about-the-back-seat-and

One line I used in that reply was this: “Frankly, if Billie had said no, I think Dean would’ve probably just told her that he was done, and to just go ahead and take him. Period. End of deal. He would’ve given up.”

He would’ve preferred the literal Empty to staying in that concrete cell for one more CHOW TIME!.

Dean. Broke.

It had fuck-all to do with Sam. Well, it probably had a little bit to do with Sam, because heck, if Dean was going to throw in the towel, why not get something for Sam out of the deal in the process?

Go back and watch every Dean scene after they escape from the prison, with the knowledge of all the details of the deal Dean made with Billie. Because DEAN made that deal. Sam was just along for the ride. Dean was 100% in charge of that deal, and he fully intended to be the one to pay the price for it.

That entire run through the jungle was his last hurrah. It was Purgatory Dean on his Where’s the Angel quest all over again. Like, literally.

It was a culmination of every time Dean’s gone full “I’m on the clock so I’m gonna throw myself into the world as hard as I can until the world manages to take me out.” From s3′s cheeseburgers-for-breakfast and baiting-vampires-for-kicks, through s6′s raid on the vampire next, to s7′s kamikaze run on Dick Roman, to his 9.11 demon fight in Cain’s kitchen, to his end of s10 revenge against the Stynes, to handing himself over to Death in 10.23, to swallowing a soul bomb and flinging himself at Amara in 11.23. (luckily he chose to use his words instead of detonating himself, right?)

CASTIEL WAS THE ONLY PERSON DEAN WANTED TO SEE AGAIN BEFORE HE DIED ONCE AND FOR ALL.

He NEEDED Cas to show up and find him. He didn’t tell Cas about his deal, and Sam kept pressuring Dean to talk about the deal, but Dean just kept saying “later.” As if there was really gonna be a “later” for Dean.

He’s a man of his word, and I’m certain his intention was live up to the bargain HE CHOSE TO MAKE with Billie.

Notice he couldn’t even look Cas in the eye when they found him in the woods. Dean. Couldn’t look CAS in the eye.

(how many fanfics have centered around the fact that Dean stares back at Cas just as much as Cas stares at him? and here he can’t even meet Cas’s eyes? AT ALL?! AFTER SIX WEEKS OF FEAR AND ISOLATION AND WORRY AND SADNESS AND ANGST?!)

Because Dean knows this is it. This is the end. The looks on his face there are of a broken man.

And then Dean sees Mary. One person he neither expected to see, nor had any idea how to deal with in that situation. I think HER presence there is what made him hesitant when Billie showed up to collect her Winchester.

In the car, when the clock struck midnight, Sam called “It’s time.”

Dean was sitting IN THE FREAKING BACK SEAT. WITH CAS.

At Sam’s statement, Dean sneaks a heartbreaking glance at Cas, who slowly understands that Dean has Done Something Terrible in order to have escaped that prison. The look Cas gives him is even more heartbreaking. Dean can’t even bear it, and so looks away... (borrowed from @k-vichan‘s post here)

Okay...

The one variable Dean wasn’t counting on was MARY being there. Because she stepped in front of the bullet that he’d intended to take himself. Her mere PRESENCE there added about 10 layers of PROBLEMATIC for Dean, because he could live up to the deal he’d made and say his goodbyes to Sam and Cas... they’ve lived that scene before... but Mary’s presence was a wild card. Her presence was a spanner in the works, a deviation from what Dean thought was The Perfect Plan.

Dean had NO IDEA what Cas had been suffering through in his absence. He had NO IDEA that Cas would call Mary in for backup, because CAS couldn’t handle rescuing Dean alone. He’d been fucking up simple vampire hunts, because he’s been so depressed, isolated, and alone (just like Dean...). He couldn’t risk fucking up Dean and Sam’s rescue (because in Cas’s opinion, that’s all he was able to do.. mess things up and get in the way).

Dean also had NO IDEA that Cas and Mary would involve the BMoL (hello consequences of shady deals!).

Gah. I mean, there was just SO MUCH here. I should probably shut up.

So saying Dean did all of this just for Sammeh, because brodependency? Is essentially erasing the entire character of Dean Winchester, and the earth-shattering significance of everything that happened in this episode.

Because no. Just, no.