#i enjoy character analysis so bad

[bull-shit-suji]

I mostly agree with your analysis but I have some thoughts about Sebastian’s perspective within the story (sorry for the absolute essay):

Sebastian isn’t a stagnant character — his behavior towards Ciel has changed drastically from their first meeting to present day. A lot of this change is out of necessity, similar to your claims in how he goes to extreme lengths to maintain Ciel’s health and wellbeing-ish because he wants Ciel to feel dependent on him. Because of this, I’ve always taken his actions when he’s around others, especially Ciel, with a grain of salt, given that it’s pretty much all an act. 

BUT his actions when he’s alone, or, at the very least not being perceived by Ciel, don’t always coincide with his malevolent nature. I had to dig through the manga to find this panel but it immediately came to mind:

^For reference this is chapter 144 on the very last page, after o!Ciel was arrested upon learning his brother had returned. Now, this slightly breaches my prior rules because Sebastian isn’t alone here, but I’d argue that Ciel is paying zero attention to him and Sebastian is aware that he isn’t being actively perceived. 

I can’t think of any other way to describe this expression than “concerned”, and I’d say this was likely intentional on Yana’s part given how subtle the look is and how in-your-face the panel is. Which is weird, right? Even if Sebastian was acting on an assumption that Ciel was looking at him, I can’t think of a single reason as to how appearing concerned would benefit Sebastian in such dire circumstances. Ergo, Sebastian is likely feeling some level of pity. And that’s insanely out of character! 

Sebastian is certifiably a narcissist, and we know he doesn’t experience empathy or compassion because he’s told us at least a million times. But this panel seems to nullify that claim, given feeling concern requires Sebastian to be able to empathize with Ciel. 

So! I agree that Ciel doesn’t view Sebastian as a trustworthy person in any regard, and I don’t think Sebastian will be morphing into a stand-up father figure anytime soon, nor will their relationship ever be anywhere near the realm of healthy, but I think claiming that the bases of Sebastian’s actions are solely manipulative and have not changed at all would be dismissing the development his character has had. Which, in my opinion, makes the story even more compelling than if Sebastian were just a big bad guy with big bad intentions. 

I also think this change in his character is where a lot of people insert that found-family aspect! Which, as you said, holds no ground in canon, but I think it’s due to a lack of a better term given Sebastian’s inhuman nature. We really don’t have a good way of understanding or describing what he feels since he doesn’t abide by our social rules, and that is a huge chunk of his character that gets swept under the rug when his relationship with Ciel is condensed into parental or otherwise. 

Anyways! I’ve talked for way too long, but I’d love to hear your thoughts!

𝕴 believe that Ciel sees Sebastian as neither ultimate safety nor a found family member.

Sebastian's attitude towards Ciel is rather wicked in the sense that while he does some actions that show his care for the wellbeing of his master, such as going an extra mile managing his health, the contract also rests on a number of pillars Sebastian still refuses to change that show how ambivalent his motives are.

First, Sebastian knowingly took a form of an adult man: the very thing that traumatised Ciel to the point where he no longer trusts adults, including Sebastian (never fully, and for a good reason). He is an ageless demon that directly states that he is "nothing that can become anything". Surely an entity that can turn into a dozen animals in sheer seconds can take a form of a pet, an animal companion, a woman, a child or perhaps anything else that does not have a direct connection to Ciel's trauma. Sebastian, narratively, chooses to be what scares and intimidates Ciel — besides the form of an adult man giving him ultimate authority in both Ciel's household and overall life.

He also did so immediately after taking a martyr (Ciel's brother), manipulating his corpse to shame Ciel into a contract, and ultimately doing nothing to "protect" his master from the traumatizing scene affront of him.

Then, he proceeded to re-traumatise him further. That is, constantly allowed Ciel to be in situations where his trauma would, or should, resurface so that his bond with the demon becomes more and more dependent. Ciel gets kidnapped a lot and with how skillful Sebastian is and how purposefully long he takes to arrive at times, appearing only at the last moment, one would think he could prevent it easily; as a "caring father figure" would. He does not. Green Witch showed a culmination of Sebastian's appetite and agenda: he will kill Ciel if he shows weakness. Which, I believe, is exactly the reason Ciel does not show fear around Sebastian, alongside his inflated pride.

Sebastian has never been a "kind parental figure", at least canonically. He is also not a "place of safety" aimed to cure Ciel's trauma: he makes it worse for his own gain.

Kuroshitsuji is such a compelling story despite oftentimes messy writing that it's a shame it so often gets boiled down to either boring romance or found family dynamics. It's neither.

[wickmitz]

Do u actually ship rocky and mitzi?

to try and be as simple as possible, i suppose i do ship them ; i’m particularly drawn by their dynamic and have long since grown enamored with it … so, naturally, i enjoy turning them over in my head and shoving them together, seeing all the possible ways they fit and how they function when glued together. rocky’s feelings for mitzi are so intense and metaphorical that there’s a lot of ground to run with, honestly. it’s not a black and white relationship where they fit neatly under one label or another either, hence my constant use of the term ‘a secret third thing’ for them overall. there’s romance, obsession, desperation, platonic associations, and a thousand other factors embedded into what they have. rocky simply ‘seeing mitzi as a mother figure’ or ‘being totally in love with her in a traditional sense’ just doesn’t capture them with the justice they deserve. it’s more … muddled than that. rocky, at this point in time, is completely incapable of maintaining love anyway, and mitzi certainly isn’t any better either. in a context where i envision them together, that aspect is a big part of things : where they click together due to their inability to sustain a healthy and stereotypical romantic bond, and thus accidentally fuel each other’s unhappy paths. it’s easy to see how mitzi does this to rocky! but rocky is capable of doing it to her as well, what with his all-consuming need to be who she relies on and to restore the lackadaisy to it’s previous glory for himself and her. he enables her and she enables him, even if it’s subconscious and accidental. while there is undeniable fondness and care there, they are also walking down this path hand-in-hand, tugging each other along when one of then falters or pauses. so, to me, it’s not hard imagining things becoming closer and more intimate … who doesn’t want to be smashed together against someone who gives you all the validation you crave and never shuns you, twisting all your awful deeds into something good and believing you righteous at all times. it’s addicting! and natural. while rocky obviously would enjoy such a relationship, so would mitzi at this point in her life. where she’s exhausted and feels particularly ugly within, and is currently all alone.

they also would click in ways that wouldn’t force them to abandon how they currently go about romance. mitzi needs to spend a good portion of her day thinking about her dead husband and nobody else, meanwhile rocky is very enamored with being a knight in shining armor so to speak, only able to express himself through extreme devotion, a thing that ( as said by crew members on stream ) can’t singlehandedly keep a relationship afloat … normally. but mitzi can deal with rocky’s rather eccentric and destructive behavior, can take the only thing he can offer and accept it wholeheartedly, because she couldn’t handle anything more normal or mature right now. and rocky, despite his occasional displays of territorial behavior, never bats an eye at or feels inferior to mitzi’s atlas obsession. this wouldn’t be the case in other relationships, where both of them would have to change or grow in some way in order to keep the love stable and secure. there would be things they’d have to give up, or be vulnerable about, and both of them are too stubborn for that at this point. a random lover would always be a second thought compared to the lackadaisy.

( now, of course, i ship mitzi and rocky with other people! and i’m very interested in these bonds forming during canon’s events. but it’d either be an unhealthy relationship, due to everything i said above, or a happier sort of take on things : where mitzi and rocky are pulled from their minds’ unraveling edges and are both given the care, patience, and understanding they both need. one where they can set aside the lackadaisy for a moment or two, and can find genuine happiness somewhere else. i never see them as fully moving on from it, nor do i see mitzi fully giving up atlas or rocky fully giving up mitzi, but things can be softened and less insane. sometimes! )

now, is this healthy? no. but is this me saying they should be surgically removed from one another because they make each other ‘worse’? also no! i adore them in every sense of the word and acting like there aren’t positives attached to their dynamic would, frankly, be stupid of me. they are there for each other in their worse moments and approach each other with kindness, something they don’t really get from others anymore. they are genuinely happy to be in each other’s presence and have a habit of lifting each other up, or providing each other some much needed warmth on a bad day. you see it many times in the comic, situations where mitzi is devestated, and rocky rushes in to comfort her ; and he always succeeds in some way, wiggling that severe expression off her face and getting her to smile, even if it’s small and weak. and rocky loves that! it makes him happy to be able to ease her heartache and worries so. it makes him feel useful and needed, and she’s one of the only people in his life to give him even a sliver of praise here or there. here are some examples i can remember off the top of my head :

and while there isn’t many examples of mitzi praising rocky, she is also still one of the few people who shows concern over him and asks after him. there are also two scenes, in the pilot and in the comic, where rocky messes up big time, and mitzi has every right to be frustrated with him. she could yell, she could get mean, like rocky is so used to, but instead … she sucks it in and simply lets it go. this happens with the pig farmers, but also in the pilot most notably! where the second she realizes how hard rocky is taking her words, her reasonable and sympathetic irritation at things not working out, she backtracks. she forces those emotions away and simply says this, earnestly and kindly, and wipes the devestation off rocky’s face :

as much of an accidental negative influence they can have on each other, there’s also a more purposeful positive influence that is inherent in their dynamic. i wouldn’t ever want to dismiss that, nor do i enjoy when other people rush to do so themselves, claiming they’re simply no good for each other. well, they claim mitzi is a manipulative person who only sees rocky as a pawn, but i’ll pretend fans are critical of rocky’s many faults as well. the point is : they’re good for each other and to each other! they just happen to have a great capacity to cling and stay where they are rather than doing anything more beneficial or productive. any dynamic in lackadaisy can become toxic in a sense, given the fact that a majority of the characters are prone to indulging in their flaws and chasing what’s familar, what’s most comfortable, with little regard to anyone else. but i find that aspect interesting, and i love rocky/mitzi all the more for their accidental enabling and vastly obscured views.

the more romantic aspects aren’t really something i care too much about, overall. i play around with it and find scenarios where things can bloom in such a way, but them calling each other ‘boyfriend’ or ‘girlfriend’ isn’t something i care for. i do not think mitzi would ever be attracted to rocky in a sappy lovesick way -- she’s above fawning as it is, and is rather methodical about things like passion or adoration nowadays anyway. her eyes can’t exactly sparkle upon seeing rocky spilling syrup all over himself nor can she sigh dreamily at his nonsensical, improv poetry spiels that just burst out of him like water through a broken dam. but they could soften at the corners and she could convince herself of something romantic if it held her the right way. if she felt battered enough to give into it, or was lonely enough to indulge herself in a place she knows she’s wanted. rocky, on the other hand, is a bit easier to imagine here! he would never say no to miss m. and actively wants to ‘keep’ her already … if they were to become an item, an obscure, happenstance item, than he’d embrace it full heartedly! it’s been well established rocky isn’t one to turn down love or affection, so to get it from mitzi of all people? it’d be extremely ooc to even pretend he’d regret it or shy away. he loves her, of course he does, his beautiful dionysus : who unlocks her doors for him to enter, who smiles upon him with her wine soaked lips, who brushes a dainty paw across his shoulder and sings him praises like it doesn’t pain her to say them. she is warm and comforting and soft, and rocky is possessed by a maddening desire to wrap every spaghetti limb he has around her, and never let her go. again, his love is nothing short of all-consuming and obsessive where mitzi is concerned. her devoted acolyte! it would be simple to see how he’d get here in comparison to mitzi’s more wounded and guarded heart. i don’t think rocky fully loves her in only a romantic sense, however! i’m a firm believer that it is a mix of romantic and platonic feelings, an awkward and intensive blend of the two, this sort of combination that isn’t easy to sort through. he does take comfort in the fact she reminds him of a motherly figure, just as much as he genuinely finds her attractive and appealing in a puppy love kind of way. there’s also the fact that rocky is keen on lying to mitzi and wearing masks around her in the name of seeming more amazing in her eyes -- the fact his love for her is metaphorical and personal in equal measure, and the fact mitzi hides herself away from everyone around her. there would be a lot of untangling! a lot of pretending. this is a ship that will always have a multitude of layers and caveats attached to it, so to speak.

but that excites me! i like it! i love a dynamic that i could write endlessly about no matter the context it’s being framed in! how utterly unsurprising it is that the first lackadaisy fic i thought of was one that would focus heavily on these two and what’s happening between them, what could happen. mitzi wallowing in her self-inflicted misery while rocky prowls around her, begging to be useful to her while simultaneously chasing off a suitor of hers that he cannot stand to let near, is quite the image in my mind, and is one i always have looping around in the back of my head. the parallels to atlas/mordecai are an added bonus to this! if rocky is doomed by the narrative then mitzi is the narrative to which he’s bleeding himself upon, you know? that, as well as his own insecure delusions. mitzi, similarly, would easily waste away to nothing or get herself killed while trying to pursue her nostalgic ambitions if it weren’t for rocky being so willing to do the dangerous stuff for her. i think about how mitzi almost got herself killed in skedaddle and how rocky rushed to save her. while zib and ivy care for mitzi, and viktor is obligated to protect her, they are not as quick as rocky is -- nor as recklessly devoted to the point of readily given sacrifice.

anyway! i’m very fond of them, and there are so many scenes and other aspects of their characters that i could spend ages pouring over. this is, genuinely, merely a fraction of my thoughts on them. although i do hope i answered your question, anon! i got a bit carried away and i’m sure a lot of this is hard to parse through by default, but oh well!

[fromtheseventhhell]

I also find it funny that fandom will only accept Lyanna being her non-conforming, wild self in the context of saying that Arya isn't meant to be pretty; Any other day we get back-to-back posts about how Lyanna is actually super traditionally feminine cause she sniffled at a song once, so she's actually more like Sansa. Instead of constantly speaking on Arya and Lyanna, how about you guys reflect on why your standards of beauty for women are attached to how well they perform feminity within the patriarchy?

[pyrosomatic-metamorphosis]

Cant sleep so im thinking about ayhalo

I think its like. one sided. qaypierre WOULD smooch that demon and take him on dates. qbad would not recognize anything as a romantic gesture. aypierre could throw a bouquet of chocolate roses at him and bad would just be like ! thank you :}

like they love each other, absolutely. they TRUST each other, to the point where i’d even say it gets in the way of bad seeing aypierre as anything more than a good friend. that’s his guy. The dude always in his corner. Friend resource label: team mate (coparent) (down to help kidnap people). bad doesnt do classic romantic relationships- all of his relationships are INCREDIBLY queer, but the closest he usually gets to what others read as romance is a classic chewtoy4chewtoy dynamic. He LOVES to fuck with people and he loves to get fucked with and if there’s a nice jawline or pretty muscles included?? huge bonus !!

he’s got something- not kinder, with aypierre? not calmer, either, but stable, maybe. pierre has proven, over and over again, that he’s on bad’s side. Spying on tubbo, encouraging bad’s pranks, the kidnapping- i can’t call it a reliable dynamic, not with how paranoid bad is, even when he trusts, but there is still a feeling of understanding that, wherever pierre’s limits are for when he cant support bad (or genuinely turn against him), it hasnt been reached yet

aypierre, on the other hand, i dont know enough about to be absolutely sure but there are some Vibes. ironically, i think hes feeling like his relationships are unreliable. max was going to have their baby, and then he wasnt, and then he left him, then max fucking died. plus whatever is happening with him and ayrobot, which probably leaves him feeling like he cant rely on Himself. like he had, if not a little crush on bad, at least some Interest in him, before. as well as several islanders. i remember the days of the Bed Threat.

but thats part of it, too? because those flings didnt have that emotional connection, and i always got the sense that he started looking for that with maximus, to Love and Be Loved rather than pure lust. To care about someone, genuinely, and be cared about in return. but he didnt get that with the flings, and We know that max was using him, but i dont know if he did, but maybe he had a feeling about it and maybe he also had a feelinf about maximus’ feelings towards bad and maybe- there’s something about that? A little push of not-spite-not-projection onto bad.

because bad IS that reliability, right now. he’s a fucking gremlin. a bastard. a prankster silly guy. he trusts aypierre and aypierre trusts him and they dont share everything but so often, when it comes down to it, it is them against the world. them in the corner, caught, aypierre shouting about kissing as a cover for their crimes while bad runs giggling away from him.

[shannonsketches]

one more while I'm on my 'why did toei decide this was competitive' brain beef, but Yamcha's dialogue here always implied to me that he was also surprised to learn who the father was, and Bulma's dialogue seems to imply that today is Trunks' debut for all of them.

Like I read this as Bulma having arrived first, and Yamcha and Tien having arrived together either around the same time or shortly after.

Although I mean I guess Bulma's 2-Seater could've been her and Yamcha flying together but I guess I just assumed 'Baby in a Car Seat' ? Maybe I'm just biased because that image is too cute kalsdlkasj

And I read this as him learning about this ~40 minutes ago and everyone else just having moved on from that lore drop while he's still reeling from it.

Idk I know I'm biased because triangles aren't my thing anyway, but I really really enjoy that their hooking up and Bulma actually going through with a pregnancy (especially with all the body damage pregnancy can cause) came as a shock to Everyone, including Vegeta and Bulma.

Well, everyone except Piccolo, who truly could not be paid to give a fuck.

If you are enjoy a heartache connoisseur, however, I do invite you to consider what a "Yamcha Just Found Out An Hour Ago" flavor packet does to this moment after Vegeta shows up:

[vamphorica]

this has been said time and time again, but it is crazy to me how many parallels there are between death note and breaking bad.

[red-revival]

I got multiple saves planned to romance the doc under various circumstances with various traits entirely because thats the most efficient way to learn abt a character in this game and the closest I can get to studying her under a microscope

[cathalbravecog]

i'm the antonymph of the internet

[donutdrawsthings]

As someone who likes to focus on character design in my art and frequents a lot of character creation spaces because of it, I feel I can say with confidence (Most of) the characters in The Amazing Digital Circus have commonly-used-online design traits and sources of inspiration, which make their designs feel not too exciting and maybe a bit uninspired.

HOWEVER, What makes these guys more unique lays in their personality, voice acting and animation, which perfectly fits the narrative of the story (imagine being stuck in VRchat). And It's literally perfectly fine to like the designs as they are. Their character designs have good colour contrasts which balance nicely over the design, a good weight distribution, strong shape language AND have an overarching style that ties them all together while also distinctly being based on different things and looking like they all come from a different genre of entertainment. For what these characters are, they are DESIGNED REALLY WELL.

I feel the character with the most unique and self-contained (for lack of a better word for "visually not directly inspired by something") design by far is Pomni. Literally chef's kiss. I love her expressions, love her strong colour scheme and I love how her jester's hat is stylised to be sometimes almost completely straight at the top. Her flat hat together mixed with the straight-cut strands of hair peeking out from under it are such a good and subtle contrast to her other round features that I'd dare to say they reflect her seriousness through the forced silly get-up put onto her by this digital prison. And her whole clown outfit is a really good contrast to the genuine dread and existential horror she's feeling in general. I can't get enough of it. Her design is perfect for her role in the story and also as introduction to the world we as the audience are new to.

That's why I'm honestly absolutely appalled by the amount of bad faith and horrible posts I've seen towards this project as a whole. It's one thing to not like it, but a totally whole other thing to actively make it (and the fans) out to be the worst most offensive creation to have ever touched the eyes of mortal men. It's not. And remember, people can be trolls to make a fandom look worse.

Online we have a fondness for kidcore and weirdcore aesthetics based on vague familiarity and nostalgia. It's OKAY to like a story/characters INSPIRED by these things. You are allowed to indulge on your own interests. Don't take these mean spirited posts to heart. If they don't respect your positive opinions of the show, you don't have to respect their negative opinions of it either.

[musical-chick-13]

Regarding the previous post, I think the way I approach trying to evaluate a piece of art is asking "Do I think the positive things I get out of it outweigh the parts of it that I don't like?" And when I call something a "guilty pleasure" song/show/book/piece of media/etc. it's really more in the sense of, "Given who I am as a person, the flaws I've found in this should be complete dealbreakers for me, but somehow they aren't, and it makes me feel like I'm having an identity crisis."

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

"If you ship these characters together at all you've fundamentally misunderstood the plot of the story"

Bro I get this if like. It's a case where people genuinely are misunderstanding the story

But like bro you know shipping is inherently neutral and doesn't necessarily tell you anything about how someone interprets a piece of media, right?

You know that people who ship something don't always want the thing to be canon, right?

You know that people shipping something doesn't change canon

Right?

[nocinovae]

I have many feelings on the situation around abuse and power dynamics and assault that are coming to light at the moment. For the most part I feel that other peoples rage and statements are worded better. Though I had some thoughts and as someone who enjoyed psychoanalyzing fictional characters I have some realizations about c!Wilbur that I think some people will appreciate. Other than that Support and Listen to Victim. Don’t Put Streamers on Pedestals.

I hate how much I and so many people loved c!Wilbur for being a morally flawed traumatized mentally ill character.

The type of villain to enjoy in media but in a “I like them as a bad person. They fill the role they were written for very well.”

We took them as a “this is a bad person to enjoy through media” character. He showed the experience of how trauma and mental illness can effect relationship and morals.

I felt like I could take him as a caricature, an exaggerated form of many of my own insecurities and dark parts of myself.

BUT NO All c!Wilbur was was a self insert character of the writer’s desire for control and power over the people around him. Same with any of his other “characters” that we all thought were meant to be satire dark comedy of disgusting men in the world.

And he let us all believe this. It’s ironic the way he literally had his self insert pity oc kill himself after not having his apology accepted for all the harm he caused. How he was so distraught with having to actually work for redeeming himself more than just his words that his actions that he thought would resolved that was killing himself for a second time.

All the nuance and grey area I loved saw in c!Wilbur has been destroyed with the truth we all now see in William Gold. And that goes for so all of his artwork.

At least with this new lense on the artist we can take another view of his art and see deeper into the truth of What a Disgusting Piece of Shit this man is.

[strunmah-mah]

Was poking around in the Wonder Woman tag to see what the general consensuses is on the new run. And I keep seeing screen shots of the narration boxes captioned with stuff like "look at Tom King's trash opinions on the amazons" And like . . .

Y'all know those are the Sovereign's opinions right? Not Tom King's? You understand the difference between a character and a writer? And that since the Sovereign's weapon of choice is The Lasso of Lies that he probably shouldn't be considered a reliable narrator? It's literally his job to make the Amazons look bad.

[icewindandboringhorror]

the struggle of just coincidentally disliking a piece of media that a lot of conservatives also dislike, but for completely different reasons, so sometimes you'll see youtube recommended videos like "here's why X was so bad" and you're initially like "oh yaayy, yeah I had a lot of criticisms of that too, I'm curious to finally see someone really break down why the plot didn't work! I love media analysis" and then the video is just "it's bad because there's WOMAN in it!!!" ..........ok....

[pyrosomatic-metamorphosis]

no but im thinking about how 4halo could be together while keeping their dynamic intact. forever asks bad on a date and bad is like yeah :D friendship date. several dates later bad's the one to propose and he says "will you merry me" as in like. be merry with me. feel joy forever for we're together and we have 11 children aka all of the eggs we have forcefully adopted from the other parents and i dont know what life would be like without you. you changed my life for the better. besties 4evar, forever

[savviathan]

can discourse just stop happening on my dash forever thanks 👍