#i don't like shipping real ppl in a serious way but I do pick up on their connection and it's very sweet

[loeewenzahn]

So I've thought about bojere a bit recently, and why whatever they have touches me so immensely. It's because I want a relationship like that. Someone who manages to touch me on such a profound level that it's impossible to be fake or not show them love. I don't mean this in a romantic way necessarily, but more in a queerplatonic way. Imagine the max of love you can give a person without it relying on heteronormative/amatonormative standards.

I'm unsure if I actually want a conventional romantic relationship or not, but what I'm sure about is that I lack genuine frindships on a, lets call it soulmate level. Just someone who you click with and don't hold back. I miss that, I'd like that. And that's what makes my heart ache when I see those two idiots

[tkblythofficial]

Personally the only time I felt R crossed the line and fed the shipping girlies heavily was with the hot tub gate lmao other than that from a exterior perspective nothing it's out of the ordinary for R because she's been consistently supportive of T from the get go which is sweet because she genuinely cares for him as a friend and also sings him praises as an actor/professional. I mean she definitely has electric chemistry with T and we were blessed for that! But I agree, I don't understand what's up with those whiny J fans because by all means J is doing okay rn

1) He has a gorgeous talented gf that fucking adores him and goes way and beyond for him everytime.

2) Man is employed (💀) he's the lead of a show directed by Ryan Murphy (infamous but ppl still tune in to his projects so) he has some chances to grow as an actor.

3) Do I need to repeat that J's literally dating THEE Rachel Zegler!! He won, they've been together for over 2 years and have a serious relationship, also do these fans forget that T is also in serious relationship? like why would they be so threatened by a cute ship? we all zeglyths are well aware nothing romantic happened back then and nothing is happening right now either? besides them becoming close friends ofc! We might be delusional at times but we're not entirely crazy lmao

I will never understand the need of those fans who try to undermine T's place in R's heart/life. She genuinely loves him (platonic or not but there are some real feelings involved) We also know R's deeply in trenches for J so why is T getting lashings? It's giving pick me girls who hype their no shit man but deep down they know they're overcompensating and are lowkey jealous there's men who are actually worth your time and hype. This kinda applies to R sometimes lol

J has nothing going on in his life except her. Why aren’t his fans talking about his new project or his talent? Why does everything about J involve R and their relationship? Does that man not stand on his own merits? Clearly not.

T has BTK, Discussion Materials, A Farewell to Arms and possibly other project or two lined up so who’s really winning here?

And J has “won” right? He’s dating her so what’s the fuss about? R has said that she’s loved T repeatedly over the last two years so he’s not going to leave her life either lol.

R/J fans are embarrassing imo. I truly think they’re scared of the day R/J break up because they know how humiliating it will be for them. They’re using J as a way to access her and have crossed boundaries. R should say something but… she’s choosing her pathetic man over a friend.

[bunnyhysteria]

so i finally read the extra I see a lot of ppl mad pressed about and go "this is why shen qingqiu is absolutely an abuse victim and binghe raped him!!"

throwin away the main story sex which is it's own can of worms and argument, it's not the one where he literally drugs him, no it's... shizun said be gentler and then just binghe didn't. that's what constitutes rape in fiction now??? honestly it's dubcon if you want to slap a problematic label on it. and I'm not sayin bingqiu isnt toxic, definitely not at a healthy point even when the story ends but. I just feel like people are graspin for straws to paint binghe as big bad evil man because shouldn't he know our very explicit means of consent in modern culture?! I'm not as caring on the antis who take their stance on shen qingqiu's nonsense because usually they make far more sense because the thing that gets me is I literally saw an exchange like "man I love it up until that point but I don't wanna throw it all away for one extra" and I'm just like. that's your tipping point? buddy it's literally just the same shit you were fed the whole time. I don't get it. why is everything else okay, but this isn't? throw the whole bag away or don't; don't eat half of it enjoying it then eat some more suddenly declaring you hate it.

but the real thing is that their dynamic strongly comes off as "if dear shizun actually wanted it to stop, it would stop". he's whiny and annoyed at best in the extra. he's not even really fightin back. "oh but the outside pressures and binghe always guilt trips him-" no, we are explicitly shown in another extra that shen qingqiu can turn him away, even if he starts wailing, even if it's sex. and you would think if he hates sex so badly with binghe, why would he in another extra again purposely initiate and say that he would gladly endure it??

as for the blood ppl are pressed about, yea it's kind of gross, but also injuries are basically nothing in this world. they're like a paper cut that just stings really badly and then heals within a day or even hour. people spew countless liters of blood and they're still around kicking next scene. in our world would anal bleeding be a very big problem? yes, yes it would. is it a problem for an immortal who can ask his friends to hit him up with spiritual juice and heal instantly? no, not at all. and I only ever recall blood twice, that being the main story scene and the wedding extra. I genuinely think the blood in this case is nothing to do with the actual story and just narrative device to play on the wedding night fetish.

and just... not only is shen qingqiu an unreliable narrator with severely tsundere tendencies, this is ultimately sung in a comedic tune. none of it is face value nor is all of it supposed to be a serious part of the story. not only is this me going "chill" but I also believe this is part of the reason why people feel justified in trying to pretzel shizun into a rape victim. because shen qingqiu is never actually giving the full picture on what's actually going on or even his on true feelings, we're left to guess to fill some parts in, and so with their own growing discomfort of the yandere binghe they signed up for, they latch onto the smallest bit of shen qingqiu rejecting him. they're obsessed specifically with the wedding extra because it's where it ends. forget how the previous shit is arguably far worse, this is where it ends. and it's not their picture perfect healthy relationship. and it bothers them so badly that they still like bingqiu. so they proclaim themselves critical, write a few essays on how it's so awful to distance themselves from the nasty bingqiu enjoyers who openly like problematic stuff and wouldn't actually care if it was rape, and then circle back around to enjoying it because they've done their moral obligation so they're now enjoying the ship in a pure and holy way.

and maybe I have a personal bone to pick because I see me and my hubby in bingqiu so much, including how everyone wants to paint him as an evil abuser despite never even meeting the man, just because we have a colourful past I'm not ashamed of. how because I'm a small and weak feminine person and because he's a large and strong masculine person. despite the fact I'm also upfront about the shit I did. like don't think heteronormativity and misogynistic ideals aren't playing a role in how binghe is always the abuser and shen qingqiu is always the victim. there's hardly ever any room for shen qingqiu is the abuser or how about they're both just two toxic clusterfucks made in heaven and hell for each other. and people just love to down play emotional control when it's shen qingqiu dishing it out, but as soon as it's binghe, the world is ending someone save shizun.

in my hot take, shen qingqiu has far more control over binghe than binghe could even dream of having over his shizun.

do I even wanna drag out the corpse of bl culture, misogyny towards women writing gay shit, or the general homophobia of how we hold gay shit to a way higher moral standard because it's already impure and immoral so there's no room for it to be down and dirty? and why are we pressed about this being our reason to throw out book 4 and not the literal slur printed on the page that was also written in the original. like the guy who says slurs is the one we're putting into the uwu baby box??? okay.

[ihaventsleptinweekz]

Im dropping my camp camp au on the floor and running for my life! No shipping btw I don't really ship anyone sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Max as a ringed seal looking selkie, kinda like this guy

Anyway so Max as a selkie. I'd like to think that Max's pod kicked him out for one reason or another, probably because he causes so much damn chaos

So tiny baby him shows up on land like 🧍‍♂️ what... do I do here. what is all of this. and cps finds him and asks "where are your parents." And of course he's like I don't know. what.

So cps is like right then and puts him in foster care where ppl ask "why in gods name do you have a seal skin." To which he decides not to tell anyone and gives no answer, just shrugs and says his mom gave it to him.

He as a few close calls but nothing too serious, right up until he tells one of his foster parents that he's a selkie. And they're like oh okay ^_^ give me that fucking coat right the fuck now; they take it and sell and it make some cold hard cash. And Max is like hm. Fuck. (Trust issues activated)

So 10 year old max is like fuckfuckfuck what do I do. And hes miserable without it so he decides to try and track it down from buyer to buyer. And eventually manages to find some rich somebody who bought it and probably stuck it in his dumb summer home.

That rich somebody is Cameron Campbell.

So Max summons his most innocent act and says "oh dear cps, please allow me to explore my potential at this summer camp owned by this guy." And the foster care agency he's under the jurisdiction of is like umm okay? And his foster parents could not give less of a shit so they say "yeah whatever a selkie without it's pelt is worthless anyway."

This would be about when the story actually starts, everything else I'd probably just call background info ect.

So Max shows up at some godforsaken summer camp owned by Cameron Campbell and begins the search for his pelt, where he meets our usual crew of weird ass counselors and kids. If this was a fic it'd be like chapter by chapter of Max doing crazy things with Nikki and Neil that seem like average chaos causing schemes but are actually veiled ways of him trying to find his pelt.

So every episode where he's trying to ditch David he's actually just trying to look for his pelt without anyone noticing. At one point he toys with the idea of buying his pelt from Campbell, which is where all his monetary based schemes come from.

Anyway one chapter Max would steal a book on selkies and hide it under his bed, primarily because he misses his pod and pelt.

Then Nikki and Neil find it, and obviously Nikki would instantly get obsessed with the idea of Selkies, while Neil would be like yeah okay Nikki 🙄. Following, Campbell overhear them talking about selkies and he goes "Yknow I have a Selkie pelt! They're real."

So Nikki would loose her shit like I WANT TO BE A SELKIE I WANT TO MEET ONE. Meanwhile Neil is like FOR SCIENCE!!!!!!!

Later that day Max shows up from whatever he was doing and Neil is like "MAX. SELKIES ARE REAL WE NEED TO FIND ONE SO I CAN CONDICT EXPERIMENTS AND GET SCIENTIFICALLY FAMOUS."

Max would obviously be alarmed and trust issues would kick in so he'd probably start trying to be more careful with his pelt search, and subtley try and convince Neil that Selkies aren't real, and even if they were real they probably wouldn't want to be some random test subject. They'd problem want to go home to the ocean with their pod and experience all the things humanity robbed of them. Yknow, hypothetically.

To which Nikki says, "Yeah you're right!!! What do you think Neil?"

And Neil would say "Well why do you care so much?" 🤨Cue a divide in their friend group.

Meanwhile Campbell tells David to head to his summer home and pick up some emergency cash for his wild escapades, yadayada anyway. So David is going through his safe and finds some random seal pelt and is like wow this is so pretty! He picks it up and looks at it and says "wow this is so cool. I'm sure Campbell won't miss this random seal pelt. And I'm not taking it I'm just borrowing it. Without asking."

And at the same time Max is arguing lightly with Neil about something and stops midsentence because someone is touching his pelt. After so long of knowing it was left haphazardly in some rich persons safe, a terrifying disconnect between him and the pelt, someone is touching it and he can feel them touching it.

So part of him is relieved to know that the connection to his pelt wasn't severed, however the other part of him is absolutely enraged that someone is messing with his pelt.

And Neil says "Max?? Max???? Are you good?"

And Max is still standing there, frozen, feeling like he's been electrocuted because he can feel someone touching his pelt, and it feels an awful lot like when David ruffles his hair.

So Max storms up to David and says "You have my fucking pelt."

To which David is says "What? You mean this seal pelt? I thought it was Mr. Campbell's!"

And Max decides to hedge the truth and say "Someone took it from me and sold it to him and I've been looking for it this whole time." He gets really quiet and is like "Please. Give it back."

And you know David he's instantly like "Okay!!" ^_^ :] and gives it to Max without a second thought.

And Max finally, finally has his pelt, he can leave this godforsaken camp now- after all he has no reason to stay.

But he looks at his friends and then looks at David and says, "thanks." He goes back to his tent and he decides that night that no, of course he doesn't care about his friends or wish David was his dad. Surely not 🙄 He'll just stick around to get revenge on Campbell. Thats the only reason he's staying. Right?

Anyway there's more but I figured I'd break it up into two parts

[villains4hire]

“ 🔥 “ about Stella and Stolas

//I think it's pretty clear that the rpc hates the dynamic as a vast majority and I can see why you went on anon for it lol. Fair. I think overall it has its ups and downs, it's not ALL bad, I think Stella for example should probably be more intelligent since she's a one-off woman villain now behind a man being her brother. I think overall that Stella's intelligence isn't even the main problem, but it's her brother being basically behind the wheel now or implied to be.

Gets a bit spicy, readmore.

//Stella while I do just see her as a cardboard cutout as an abuser? I don't even think her intention to being a villain is bad. But make her a far more interesting one than just a plot device imo.

//Stolas I think while I like him, he does get his ass patted a lot in terms of getting a free pass for being a canon gay character by the community. Or very like 'oh woe is me' dynamics sewn onto him, he's being abused etc. It overall felt really weird when Stella has abused Stolas less than Loona has to her dad, then it's played up for laughs. I think I remember someone saying it played like, a protagonist perspective or something etc by someone when in passing and I have to agree with both that Canon Angel Rper and the Angel Dust I remember... albeit don't quote me on all of this/I won't name drop either of them or elude to who bc I know how stupid ppl are about this ship and character. Though I'm pretty sure they both can handle the heat.

-

Complaining out the gate done:

-

What was done well with a mix of how it can be done better.

//I think the general idea is fine, that Octavia is closer to Stolas or even Stella being a vindictive evil bitch. It's more of how it arrives at the execution, along with the constant shielding that's done or the feeling that some had against Stolas of being a cheater. Then quite obviously later making it clear why he's a cheater or that it's fine, it's not really subverting intentions or what's expected when it's something normally considered pretty bad. It just feels like trying to explain it all away tbh.

//I think my biggest issue is that Stolas is not a good person, but I would consider him one better than Stella morally probably. Though I do think his recklessness also contrasts with how he cares about Octavia, I wish his relationship with Blitz would show how it effects them both due to the fact we see no real supposed consequence of them both dating. Only just basically being mocked by Ozzy and that was it even if it's taboo even among Hell in the Goetia Clan. S2 has yet to end so maybe that'll change tho.

//Regardless, I wouldn't be making these opinions as I had never intended to take Helluva Boss seriously as a series. It was clear to me at the time for how Vizi said and intended it to be a sideplot/more jokey stuff. It's why I even have some of the opinions that I do on the characters.

//I don't think she shouldn't try, but I do think that Stolas and Stella is probably the most sloppily handled thing in the series to the point of almost being irresponsible, but not quite there yet lol. I think Vizi probably needed someone to go over her work if she was going to present anything serious like Stolas, Stella and then Stryker etc. As of course if you pick it apart it all starts becoming undone and you could say 'oh it's just the sideplot, oh it's just the comedy, oh it's just blah blah'. Look, if she didn't present serious plot-like elements and complex heavy topics presented in a way that's not really just a one-off serious thing but ongoing? Then maybe, just maybe people wouldn't take it as seriously, which is a shame, as ppl like it anyway, but I do think it could've been something much more special than it is now currently.

[i-want-my-iwtv]

I'm going to be roleplaying with someone and they want to do a mother/son relationship, like not in the usual way. Like, what is the ACTUAL relationship between Gabrielle and Lestat? What is it really? I want to do a thread, but I don't want to trigger anyone or make it look all grim and incestuous. And I sincerely apologize if I've offended you by asking the question. I just dunno.

[By the way, I usually answer things with a relevant fanart/image/gif, but in this case, I think it’s too serious a topic for that.]

“And I sincerely apologize if I’ve offended you by asking the question.”

No offense taken, it’s a fair question! 

I am a little wary that this is a bait set out by those who see things in RP/fiction as “promoting” something in real life. A bait set to invite the kind of anti-shippers who are looking for a way to tear me down regardless of how I respond, when all I ever want to promote is:

The 3 Laws of Fandom.

(And I’ll quote a relevant piece of it from @ozhawkauthor, but please read the whole post):

“Much (though not all) fandom is about shipping. There are as many possible ships as there are fans, maybe more. You may have an OTP (One True Pairing), you may have a NOTP, that pairing that makes you want to barf at the very thought of its existence.

It’s not up to you to police ships or to determine what other people are allowed to ship. Just because you find that one particular ship problematic or disgusting, does not mean that other people are not allowed to explore its possibilities in their fanworks.

You are free to create contrarian content, to write meta about why a particular ship is repulsive, to discuss it endlessly on your private blog with like-minded persons.

It is not appropriate to harass creators about their ships, it is not appropriate to demand they do not create any more fanworks about those ships, or that they create fanwork only in a manner that you deem appropriate.

These three laws add up to the following:

You are not paying for fanworks content, and you have no rights to it other than to choose to consume it, or not consume it. If you do choose to consume it, do not then attack the creator if it wasn’t to your taste. That’s the height of bad manners.

Be courteous in fandom. It makes the whole experience better for all of us.”

I want to make it very clear that I’m answering this as someone who supports exploring dark themes and taboo topics in fiction/RP. As long as you are not violating real living person’s rights, or invading any real living person’s space*, then you are doing nothing wrong. I’ve been blocked. I try to tag for things that can be triggering/upsetting to others, but I will not self-censor to appease everyone, so I absolutely support ppl unfollowing/blocking me if what I post makes them uncomfortable.

*Posting your fic/RP with the appropriate warning tags is a form of respecting others’ space and rights. If they don’t like your writing, they can block you, too. Their dashboard is their responsibility.

“I want to do a thread, but I don’t want to trigger anyone or make it look all grim and incestuous.” 

I think grim and incestuous could be very interesting to explore; not every fic/RP can be a fluffy Coffee Shop AU! 

Re: Concern about triggering anyone, I’ll repeat myself, it is everyone’s responsibility to curate their own fandom experience and as long as you are tagging and putting content under cuts, it is their responsibility to protect themselves. If they are incapable of that, then they should ask a trusted person to monitor their internet use. 

People are triggered by many things, not just taboo and darker themed writing. This person’s triggers are Jello, Popsicles, Soup Broth, please read it! And to quote from that post, “a lot of ‘activists’ on tumblr aren’t looking to actually help anyone or make anything better: they’re sadists cruising for new victims.”

TL; DR: Anon, do what you and your partner are comfortable doing.** If RPing it as a ship squicks you both out, don’t do it. If Rping it as a ship is exciting to you both and you want to explore that taboo, go for it! Just be sure to tag it with the right warnings, and add cuts so that ppl will be protected from content they may not want to see. You can also RP privately however you like, there is no rule that says RP must be done publicly. 

**If your RP partner is pressuring you to RP something you are uncomfortable with, then I would suggest not RPing that with them, and similarly, if you are pressuring your RP partner to RP something they are uncomfortable with, I would suggest not pressuring them into it. 

Hit the jump for my response, cut for length, and discussion about possible incest between fictional characters.

“I’m going to be roleplaying with someone and they want to do a mother/son relationship, like not in the usual way.”

Is there a “usual way” to RP? If you’re suggesting in the ship way, it is something I’m sure exists.

Ppl RP with canon in mind, or without it. 

“Like, what is the ACTUAL relationship between Gabrielle and Lestat? What is it really?”

That is a question with a ton of landmines, so I’m not going to say that they are definitely a ship or definitely not, it’s up to the individual reader/RPer to decide based on their reading of canon, or diverge from canon and write the characters however they see fit. This kind of exploration is one of many ways to engage with the characters and I see nothing wrong with canon-compliant or not canon-compliant writing, either way.

Personally, I can see both sides of the argument. 

>>Not as a ship: There are some who see them purely as a mother and a son, and DEFINITELY nothing more. She does come to his rescue at the rock concert (how did she know to go to him? She has telepathy, but being his fledgling, she cannot read Lestat’s mind; she could have picked up the warnings from other vampires, or Louis might have contacted her), there are several times in canon when she asserts herself in an authoritative manner. She’s protective of him when he’s in a coma, and she slaps some sense into him when necessary. All these things can be filed under “motherly.”

It’s easy to not ship them, so I don’t really need to provide further canon evidence, they are, biologically, mother and son! There’s nothing more to add to that.

>>As a ship, Unpopular Opinion: one could argue that they can be shipped, because:

A) He becomes her maker, which changes their relationship to him being more of the “parent.” 

- During the initial phase of Lestat turning Gabrielle in TVL, as he’s taking her life, he says she’s no longer his mother (to be fair, this is the kind of intimacy a vampire feels when feeding on anyone, but still, worth mentioning):

Myknowledge dimmed and flickered and there was no mother anymore,no petty need and petty terror; she was simply who she was. She wasGabrielle.

- Then, once she’s turned, she insists on being called by her name instead of “Mother,” so some take that as proof that she doesn’t see herself as being his mother anymore, in the mortal sense of the word. 

B) The act of making a vampire is extremely intimate, it has been compared to childbirth. It’s the most intimate act a vampire can share with anyone. I believe in fanon that it creates a physiological bond between maker and fledgling, so one could extrapolate to say that the act itself could create a ship. 

Note: In most maker/fledgling relationships, there is some assumption that turning the fledgling is done to bind maker and fledgling as a ship; essentially making the fledgling into a companion for the maker and the maker into a companion for the fledgling. In this case, Lestat turned Gabrielle in order to save her life, not knowing if he would even survive the act, so I don’t think this was a factor here, neither of them necessarily intending to be in a relationship together, but the physiological bond discussed above would still be a possibility.

Also worth mentioning is that he asks for her consent, as he had not been asked for consent himself, and the question is very clear:

No words again, just the silent thrust of it, and the question, more immense than could ever be put into words, Do you want to come with me now? DO YOU WANT TO COME WITH ME INTO THIS NOW? I hide nothing from you, not my ignorance, not my fear, not the simple terror that if I try I might fail. I do not even know if it is mine to give more than once, or what is the price of giving it, but I will risk this for you, and we will discover it together, whatever the mystery and the terror, just as I’ve discovered alone all else. With her wholebeing she said Yes.

^This could be construed as him wanting her for a companion and her agreeing to it. 

C) LET’S TALK ABOUT SEX. This is a point of debate for many fans, whether the Ricean vampires can have penetrative sex. In my opinion, in canon they cannot, and while penetrative sex is NOT A REQUIREMENT to a relationship (there are relationships where there is no penetrative sex and they are no less valid than those which do have it, in my opinion), the incestuous aspect of a Lestat/Gabrielle ship is alot less squicky for me knowing that they aren’t able to literally bone in the mortal way. Some would argue that the bloodsharing is more intimate than penetrative sex, and that’s fine, but still, being unable to literally bone is just so much less squicky, in my opinion. But ppl made fanart of essentially that and it was still very funny, to me! 

Call it what you will, but the first bloodkiss shared in canon is between Lestat and Gabrielle on the night she is turned.

^^^ALL THAT SAID, I wouldn’t shoot anyone down who ships it, they are both adult fictional characters. One could argue that there is some canon evidence to support it, but canon evidence is unnecessary. 

Again, Anon, do what you and your partner are comfortable doing. If RPing it as a ship squicks you both out, don’t do it. If Rping it as a ship is exciting to you both and you want to explore that taboo, go for it! Just be sure to tag it with the right warnings, and add cuts so that ppl will be protected from content they may not want to see. You can also RP privately however you like, there is no rule that says RP must be done publicly. 

If your RP partner is pressuring you to RP something you are uncomfortable with, then I would suggest not RPing with them, and similarly, if you are pressuring your RP partner to RP something they are uncomfortable with, I would suggest not pressuring them into it.