#i don't even think he wanted the joker dead (only) because he thinks he objectively morally deserves death

[rmbunnie]

Red Hood Characterization

This is really long so I'm putting a cut here, I've been thinking about Jason Todd's character motivations and the question of whether or not his actions are based in a Moral Code (I don't think so, not to say he's without any morality) and I talk about that in more depth here.

I saw someone say on here that Titans: Beast World: Gotham City was some of the best Jason Todd internal writing they'd seen in a while, and I've been a Red Hood fan for 8 years or so now? pretty much since I read comics for the first time, so I went and checked out and I thought it was good! The way the person I saw talking about it as if it was rare and unusual made me wonder though, because as well-written as i thought his stances on crime were, there wasn't really anything in it that went against the way I conceptualize Jason?

This kinda plays into a larger question I've been thinking about for a while with Jason though, which is that, do people think that the killing is part of a fundamental worldview that motivates him a la batman, and that worldview is the reason he does the things he does?? Because 8 years ago i was a middle schooler engaging with fiction on the level that a middle schooler does, so I simply did not put much thought into it beyond "poor guy :(" but ever since I actually started trying to understand consistent characterization, I don't really see Jason as someone who's motivated by a moral code in his actions the way batman or superman is!

tbh my personal read is that he's a very socially-motivated guy, his actions from resurrection to his Joker-Batman ultimatum in utrh always seemed to me like every choice made leading up to his identity reveal was either a. to give him the leverage and skill necessary to pull off his identity reveal successfully, or b. to twist the knife that little bit more when he does let Bruce find out who he is. Like iirc there's a Judd Winick tweet like "yeah tldr he chose Red Hood as his identity because it's the lowest blow he could think of." And I think that's awesome, I think character motivations rooted so deeply in character's relationships and emotions are really fun to read! I also think it's where the stagnation/flatness of his character comes from in certain comics, because if his main motivation is one event in one relationship that passes, and he is not particularly attached to anything in his life or the world by the time that comes to pass, it's a little harder to come up with a direction to go with the character after that, because there isn't much of a direction that aligns with something the character would reasonably want? But I do think solving this by saying "all of the morally-off emotionally driven cruelty he did on his way to spite Batman was actually reflective of his own version of Batman's stance that's exactly the same except he thinks it's GOOD to kill people" isn't ideal. To be fully honest, it seems to me like he never particularly cared one way or the other about killing people to "clean Gotham of crime," he just did everything he could to get the power necessary to pull off his personal plans, and took out any particularly heinous people he encountered along the way (like in Lost Days.) Not to say I think the fact he killed people keeps him up at night anymore than everything else in his life events, I just never really thought he was out there wholeheartedly kneecapping some dude selling weed or random guy robbing a tv store for justice.

Looping wayyy back to my question, Is this (^) contradictory to the way he's written/the overall average perception of the character? Because like I enjoyed his writing in Beast World i have zero significant issue with anything there, I just didn't believe it would be a hot take, like yeah, that is Jason. It's been a while since I've read utrh and lost days, but I don't think my takeaway directly contradicts either of those too bad iirc. Idk all this to say I think Jason killing and being alright with killing is an obvious and objective fact, but i guess i've always seen it as more of a practical tactic than a moral belief, and I think taking the actions made during the lowest points of a character's life where he is obsessively focused on this ONEEEE thing and trying to apply it as a Motivating Stance to everything he's done after that, doesn't really follow logically for me.

[aingeal98]

More Jason and Cass thoughts (sorry but also not sorry) but if I was magically given full control over DC and could write what I'd want obviously I'd make Cass Batman but I've been thinking of what sort of reaction and role Jason would have in response. I think I'd write his version of "Congrats on the new job!" as a test, involving the Joker and civilians and gangs and Red Hood and a ton of explosives. Bruce failed me, and now he's given up. You're his successor, let's see how you handle this dilemma that freaked him out so badly he threw a batarang into my throat rather than let me avenge my own death in front of him.

So obviously Cass will overcome the traps and the puzzles. That's the fun part to show how competent both of them are and sprinkle in little character moments as we go. But then we reach the emotional crux of the matter, probably laid out as some sort of saw trap because it's Jason. Here I am, a victim of murder. You say nobody dies tonight but I did, and I want the man who did it dead. Not only did Batman fail to avenge me but he failed to stop the Joker from going on to create even more victims. What right do you have to stop me from getting justice for myself? What right does this man have to life after what he's taken from me and from countless others? I'm not trying to kill a random stranger, I'm specifically demanding justice for my own death that I never got while I was gone.

There are two ways this could go. The straightforward route if I knew my time on this run was limited would probably be a pyrrhic victory like the ones Cass's og series was so fond of. Just like Bruce in utrh, she acts on instinct and saves the Joker (and Jason this time) . A win technically, but she fails the test. Jason is once again vindicated but with nothing to show for it. The story ends with Cass sending the Joker back to jail and going back to the batcave, where the old Robin costume looms judgementally, highlighting her failure. It would be the most fitting end given their character molds, all tragedy and conviction and unstoppable force meets immovable object etc.

However... I think the option I prefer would be a little different. Cass levelling with Jason, a killer talking to a murder victim. She has no right to stop Jason from getting justice, she has no love for the Joker but she knows any death she allows to happen like this would devastate her, just like that death row inmate long ago she tried to break out but ended up letting go once the family of the victim talked to her and demanded justice. I think... In this specific situation, she'd just be honest. Morally she has no right sure. Personally she just really really doesn't want anyone to die. Give her one chance, please. Let her try it her way. Not demanding, not lecturing or insisting, just... Please. Don't do this. Let me try another way.

And then what? Jason asks.

In the end a deal is struck. Cass will take the Joker and lock him up, ensuring he never harms anyone again while also trying to rehabilitate him. But the second she fails and he gets free, Jason kills him and she won't stand in his way. It's the kind of deal that leaves both of them mildly disgusted and dissatisfied with themselves, neither of them naturally creatures of compromise when it comes to this specific topic. But Cass is willing to do anything to avoid death and Jason did not expect the new Bat to be so... Flexible? Kind of? Of course maybe she won't actually hold up her end of the deal and when the Joker gets loose she'll try and stop Jason from killing him and he'll get his miserable vindication, but right now this is something strange and new and he's mildly confused and curious about where it will go. He doesn't believe in her ability to contain the Joker forever but he's willing to let her try because her reaction to that future failure interests him. She's given him a sword of damocles to hang above her head and he didn't ask for it or expect it. It's the type of power he never thought the Bat would just... Hand to him.

The conflict ends with neither of them fully winning or losing. They both don't really know what to feel about this.

The thing is, the second Cass let's Jason kill the Joker she's hanging up the mantle. She's staking the Bat on this, because it's always go big or go home with her when it comes to saving others, even someone like the Joker. In this magical universe where I have unlimited power, Cass would lock the Joker in a secret bunker and have Leslie Thompkins talk to him daily, mostly because I think her pacifism speeches and debates in the comics would make a fun contrast to the Joker's evil sadism. (But what about his rights? Doesn't he deserve a trial and to be held in a regular prison? I'm going to be honest I think Cass would be very comfortable bending the rules on this specific situation. Morally questionable but I'd have fun with it. She's going to let Leslie treat Joker like her personal pet project to save his soul because yes she wants him to change but also she's got a city to save every night so go crazy Leslie, have fun.)

And the Batman series would continue with Cass as the lead, new challenges and new antagonists and every twenty issues or so for the first hundred we'll cut back to the Joker briefly if his chats with Leslie can help highlight some thematic element of the current arc. But bit by bit he'd slowly fade away onto oblivion, maybe getting referenced every hundred issues or so until eventually no one remembers or cares about him because there's so much else going on. Meanwhile Jason's got a good thing going as Red Hood, primarily based in Park Row and a tentative ally on the occasion when their vigilante work aligns. Unlike Joker he's a much more frequent character in the comics, and after say 10 years (this is my magical fantasy universe Cass's batman run is going to last for a very long time alright) when people think of DC characters they think of Red Hood long before they think of the Joker.

Is any of this realistic? Right now of course not. It's why I'd go with the pyrrhic victory if I actually got the chance, because it would be the best way to tell the story in the larger context of the Bat narrative. But it's my fantasy DC editor and writer daydream and I'm going to dream big. They're never going to be normal happy siblings, their personal demons will never fully let them be free and the looming possibility of losing everything they currently have narrative wise if Bruce comes back as Batman will always be there. But it's maybe the closest to peace they'll ever get. Unsatisfying and tame compromise that probably violates several laws and ethical codes but whatever. Cass has never read the Geneva convention and Jason's not going to shed tears over the Joker. Let him die relevancy wise if not physically.

[mikuni14]

Jack & Joker - Ep 10

What an emotional and eventful episode✨

Of course I can't help but start with their 🔥 scene. Everything was very beautifully shot, visually and colorfully a bit like old Hong Kong movies, full of half-tones, very lovely. Yin and War delivered, but no surpise here, it's them. I really liked how they were together in this scene, a very pleasant reference to MaxTul, those muscles, sounds, smacking on naked body, grabbing it, passion and desire at the highest levels, but lined with playfulness, carefreeness, love ���� In both couples we can see what I always appreciate very much, that is, their naturalness and that as a viewer I have no doubts that these characters played by these actors are super horny for their lovers 😤 Special mention of the Ikea clothes rack, because I recently assembled exactly that type, so I kind of relate, cue Di Caprio pointing at tv meme lol. (hot muscle daddies who push themselves into it for my entertainment were not included in my clothes rack set, I think I'll file a complaint).

The scene with Joke's father: siiiiiiiiigh but yeah, sadly I expected this, I also expected to hear: "we actually love you and miss you / but why didn't you visit us, we were waiting for you god you screwed up again". I don't know how you can go from "he's not my son" and "a thief is always a thief" to "come home for dinner", but what do I know, right? I was prepared for this, I still hate it.

The constant references to death, the repeated words about farewell, about forgiveness, returning as a ghost 😬, don't fill me with any particular optimism. I'm 99% certain of a happy ending, but… I am starting to worry a little. There is also an option that in the finale we will have a time skip 🙄 due to Joke, Jack, or both of them being in prison.

I also watch with neverending sadness Joke's low self-esteem and how he thinks that he doesn't deserve anything good, and how easily he is able to throw away his happiness, ruin his future.

As a big fan of communication between characters, between lovers, I have a "I told you so" moment that doesn't give me any satisfaction tho, it's just too sad. Because technically, objectively, almost everything actually is Joke's fault (I know that Boss is first and mainly to blame) and he constantly does things behind Jack's back - with the best and purest intentions - but still. He keeps throwing himself into situations, sacrificing himself completely, just to help Jack, but in reality… well. He only gets him more into trouble every time. Joke never asks Jack if he wants his "help", he just decides for him. Besides, Jack clearly told him not to try to help him anymore. I wholeheartedly support them, but looking from the outside, this is not a healthy relationship, in which there is so little honesty, trust and communication. And in which one has clear, unaddressed tendencies towards self-destruction, not taking into account his health, life, or even the possibility of being in prison again.

Save and attempts to whitewash him "because he's stuck too" and "there's no other way for him" irritate me. Oh he's sorry? He's sad? Well, his victims don't even have that luxury, because they're dead. Save didn't even try to soften what he's doing, trying to help somehow, warn Boss's victims, he just did what he was told without hesitation and on top of that showed unnecessary overzealousness. I don't want to hear that he's "like the others" because he actively works for Boss without even trying to mitigate the evil he's doing. Sorry, but fuck this guy.

I've seen emerging controversies related to trans characters, who seem to be treated worse in J&J. Please remember that during the first ring heist, in the same ep Noo Lek was treated badly and a male model was also attacked and beaten, who was completely innocent, who earns money for a living with his face and his body, so this beating was doubly bad. And regarding Jennie's character being thrown from a height: in the same episode, a literal child was also thrown from a height (and survied because of the plot armor, let's be honest). I know it seems like trans people are treated worse, but in this show, something bad happens to someone all the time, people are hounded, beaten, tortured, attacked, poisoned, exploited, cheated, forced to sell their body parts (!) and no one is spared, including children and the elderly. I think we noticed what seems like a pattern because there are simply more of trans / non binary people than in other series, and they are just as much victims of the system.

........

So a lot happened, I'm starting to worry a little about the ending, so I'll go back to my favorite moment in this episode: Jack grabbing Joke by the chin and guiding him to a kiss and then pinning his hand 🔥

[zeroducks-2]

Let’s talk Helena Wayne bc like it’s criminal that we barely get anything about her and that they completely changed her origin and family (the bertinelli mafia family) to add her into the main comic book line.

im torn bc I love both versions of her :(

But I wanted Dick to share some older siblings trauma with her and for Damian to have that “blood” sibling bc I think that would have completely rocked early Damian’s shit. All his life, he was told to be the true heir of Bruce Wayne, but it turns out he has an OLDER SISTER BRUCE HID FROM TALIA AND RA. Idk I just think that would have crushed his lil murder ego and made for some interesting sibling moments and an interesting dynamic.

Lastly, can we talk about how the Batfam fandom completely stole all of Helena (Bertinelli)’s character traits and gave them to Jason??? Im sorry but when in the material source has Jason ever been super devout and catholic? Helena is the religious one, why am I reading about Jason’s apparent Catholicism in fics and HC dumps? Also Jason (besides his Robin days) has never been this savour and protector of the woman and children of Gotham, that’s very very veryyyyyy clearly a trait from Helena and strongly ties into her backstory as a child who suffered coming from a rich bloodline of syndicate crime. And don’t think this is me bashing on Jason, bc it’s not!! I love Jason Todd - but for who he is. Not for this weird fandom version of him who is either still suffering from the craze the lazarus pit puts you through, or this Joan of Arc of Gotham character either.

I'm gonna be honest with you, this character confuses me a bit. I know that Bruce and Selina got married and had a daughter in their Earth-Two incarnations, and this daughter is Helena Wayne, who's Dick best buddy and a vigilante in her own right called Huntress.

Then I know Helena Bertinelli, daughter of a mafia lord who was introduced in the late 80s in the preboot comic continuity, and was a quite murdery vigilante called Huntress who Bruce didn't accept because she "reminded him of Barbara" (you gotta love DC's excuses for sexism and ableism lol it's not like Barbara was dead just paralyzed. Also it did not look like Bruce gave a shit about it at the end of TKJ that Joker had crippled her - "she reminds him or Barbara". LMAO Bruce).

Then post reboot the title Huntress was given back to Helena Wayne, however Helena Bertinelli is ALSO there and she's ALSO called Huntress? She appears in the Grayson run where Dick is an agent of Spyral, and she seems to be Italian-American but I don't think her origin is the same as in preboot? Also I have no idea about Helena Wayne's continuity post reboot - when she was conceived, who raised her, how did she become a vigilante, neither I have any idea where to find this info.

I agree that if she had been raised by Bruce it could have made for an interesting dynamic amongst the bats and birds. It did in Earth 2 even if only Dick is just there - they're not siblings but they also aren't not siblings? The dynamic is murky and I love murky. Pretty sure it would have changed everything for Damian as well, especially the fact that she would have most likely been the first object of Damian's need to prove himself worthy, instead of Tim.

That being said, not much of what you mentioned is fanon about Jason.

Jason had an arc in which he's a priest. Pretty normal that fans HC him as devout or anyway catholic.

Father Todd in Flashpoint: The World of Flashpoint Vol. 1 - this is an AU in which Jason was never taken in by Bruce and was never Robin.

As for the whole "protector of women and children" thing, you probably know that Jason was born in extreme poverty, his father was in and out of prison and his mother died of overdose. He is very much a child who suffered because of a broken system, and given how harshly he reacts when women and children are the recipient of violence "in his Robin days", is it really that strange that fans assume he carried these traits in adulthood?

We see him being sweet and protective to kids many times, or anyway losing his mcfucking shit when children are being harmed (like in Brothers in Blood). Imo that of Jason caring about vulnerable people is barely a headcanon, and I don't see how this would make him the Joan of Arc of Gotham either - if I'm being honest ALL vigilantes should care about minorities and vulnerable people, it's the other way around that is weird as fuck (like that arc in which Dick almost dies to prevent this guy from shutting down Bludhaven's casinos, like what the hell was Tim Seeley thinking exactly).

That being said, I understand your frustration if the character you like doesn't have recognition. Trust me I do! There's a lot of them for me too, especially female and/or non white characters who had maybe 1 run ages ago and then got forgotten by DC, and I would REALLY LIKE to see them more, and to see them acknowledged more by the fans (from the top of my mind, Jenni Ognats or Patricia Trayce).

But this isn't fandom's fault. As I mentioned before, Helena Bertinelli as a fleshed out character was a thing between 20 and 30 years ago, and most of tumblr's userbase was either very young or not born yet. DC forgot about her, stripped Huntress from her to give it to Helena Wayne, then brought her back but as an agent of Spyral and it really doesn't look like they care. Fans can't be held accountable for the fact that she's simply not there. They didn't "steal" Helena's traits to give them to Jason; this implies a willful and malicious intent from people who saw this character and decided her features fit another character better, and it's obviously not what happened - people barely know Helena Bertinelli exists if at all.

Also - I said this about Jason already and I will repeat it a million times: Jason wasn't picked at random from the sea of DC characters to be people's blorbo, he resonates with fans for a reason. Under the Red Hood is a deeply emotional and relatable arc for many people because it's the story of how a child was failed by every single person who was supposed to protect and guide him, and then was failed again as an adult victim who demanded to be seen and heard and acknowledged, and instead was silenced again. It's heartbreaking to see how many people see this and say "this is me, this is what happened to me", but it is what it is, and most of all there is no taking this away from Jason's fans. DC tried to villainize him, to make him look and sound like a madman, to make him unhinged and deranged and they had Tim suggest that "maybe it's the Lazarus Pit that drove him mad", but it didn't work and fans still love him and still consider him a symbol of how "bad victims" are treated worse than their abusers, and keep being retraumatized by a society that prefers turning a blind eye to violence than deal with the issue at its root.

And lastly, bitching won't get you anywhere. I am the living proof that the right way to make people interested in something is to be passionate about that something. You want more folks to pay attention to Helena Bertinelli, then since DC won't do anything with her, the most effective thing you can do is post about her - write essays, draw her, write fics with her, create webweavings and moodboards, commission this stuff if you don't have the skills. Complaining that she should be the recipient of fandom love won't make anyone more interested in her.

[youraveragedeltafan]

Jarod and Lola

A small rant fueled by a dubious take I heard on Jarod and Lola's relationship in both the game and first book, I've never fully read About a Girl so I can't vouch for that one.

((Now that I think about it, the OP was probably from a troll but it's too late I'm in too deep))

That being said. Spoilers.

TW for abuse and a brief talk about implied SA

Did Jarod abuse Lola in some way? It's likely, especially considering he slapped her in the first book. While it only happens if Lou decides not to do anything, it shows that Jarod is willing to hurt his child.

To be clear: hitting your kid is never okay. Even when he's trying to get her out of a dangerous situation, it's clear that smacking her did nothing, and that it wasn't an accident. It was retaliation for pushing off his hat. The direct quote is:

"The man’s long and thin fingers are clutching Lola’s bright red arm. The kid continues to flail, knocking back the man who loses his hat in the process. His response is immediate, a slap hard enough to knock her head off her shoulders." (31)

Lola's response directly after doesn't help

"The man sits at the wheel of the cab, and leers at Lola who flips him off. Once the car is gone, she stands up and dusts herself off." (251)

No reaction. We don't know what Lola was like before the Brigades, but I think anyone would be at least somewhat shocked after their parent hit them if it wasn't normal. Even if it was the first time, it's still entirely unnecessary. This was put there for a reason--to depict what kind of a person Jarod was before the attack. It shows that Jarod is not an innocent man who was pushed over the edge, and wasn't exactly a shining beacon of good or even halfway decent parenting before Lola's death.

Even without this, we already know Jarod is an objectively bad person. If we take away the nuance, he's still at his core a scary fictional bad guy who has it in him to hurt his daughter and kill people if they annoy him too much. So yeah, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he abused Lola even before the Brigades, and might have contributed to why she left. This is reprehensible on its own.

HOWEVER

It's okay to like Jarod and find him interesting, he's meant to be the archetypal stranger you shouldn't talk to in horror movies (the hitcher), and plays that part well. It doesn't make you a bad person to like Jarod. Look at it this way: just because you like the Joker doesn't mean you're gonna get a clown mask, rob a bank, then burn the money.

Back to Jarod though. I think if he did anything else, it would've been implied. If they wanted to go that way with his character (SA), I feel like it would be kind of irresponsible of the writers to leave it at small 'hints' (that for the record aren't really there). Making a shrine for your dead daughter isn't weird; the 'shrine' was in front of what was basically her bedroom--something parents of dead children tend to keep untouched. Being obsessed with your dead daughter, while probably unhealthy, isn't weird.

Just because Jarod has a short fuse and likes to threaten and kill people when his cold anger meter breaks doesn't automatically mean he gets some creepy sexual pleasure from doing so. It isn't implied like, at all. The closest things I can think of that's even remotely iffy without context is Better Be Good To Me, but even then it isn't about the crosser, it's about the cop.

TL; DR: Jarod, from what we know in canon, probably physically abused Lola before and after she joined the Brigades, however, there isn't enough evidence to say the writers (both book and game) wanted Jarod to be read as a sexual predator. To be clear: It's fine if that's *your* personal interpretation, as at the end of the day its art, but trying to stand on a moral high ground about a fictional character for something that was never remotely implied in game is really...yeah.

[yvtro]

also, in light of your writing on bruce and his secret identity vs jason not having a civilian identity, what do you think would change? i think it's an exellent point but i'm not sure there's more in it beyond he'll understand that split better? i mean personally i'm not sure how to interpret the way bruce uses this v much at all. like, beyond logistics. idk how bruce wayne processes this and how jay would, if you catch my meaning.

this is a really good question, and tbh i'm not sure of the answer myself? (and yet i went on to write a literal essay)

the thing is, i sympathise with jason on this a lot. there's no actual objective line between bruce wayne and batman. the way bruce compartmentalizes his identity is rather hazy, and esp in relation to people who know both of his identities it seems to be internal (and a coping mechanism) rather than anything else. there's certainly an element of wanting to remain true to civilian life in order to stay close to people (btw this is something that got severely distorted with the rise of popularity of an over exaggerated brucie persona) and avoid becoming an authoritarian figure (something that jason actually does... interesting). but as i said, with people he trusts (including his kids) he doesn't make this separation clear.

so there's no clear conceptualising of bruce's thinking that could make jason go: oh, that makes sense actually. valid. don't kill the joker then. but to twist your question a bit, i think what jason would need in order to actually reconcile with bruce is not even understanding how bruce divides all of this (because once again, it's arbitrary and of use only for himself), but rather:

- be clear with bruce on the fact that bruce is his dad no matter in cowl or not and that jason is his son both in mask and without it,

- (hey it's fascinating how it's possible for bruce to stay in denial and detach himself from jason's demands and desperation in utrh because jason is in mask too. do you think it would go like that if jay went through with his whole plan without a red hood? using his actual name? a dead son of bruce wayne coming back to gotham, going on a murder spree and establishing a crime empire. now that would be something that would actually disrupt bruce's flow. if jason recognised what the whole problem was about, and if he thought that he wanted bruce as his dad and not batman, i think he would do it this way.) (sorry for the random tangent.)

- but also appreciate that parenthood is not bruce's only role in life. this has to do with what was pointed out in the tags of my post; children tend to perceive their parents through their responsibility towards them. growing up, you realise that your parents are also normal people, and that while they are responsible for you, their failure to meet your needs does not always come from some place of neglect or malice. they're just flawed human beings. jay didn't have an opportunity to go through normal healthy emotional development, so he idealises bruce's role in his life (as kids tend to do) and all bruce's decisions extremely personally. so, tldr: you have to agree that batman is jay's dad, sure, but batman has other stuff going on for him than being a dad. only children can be as naive as to believe that their dad can (and should) abandon everything for their sake. and well, i'm not saying that jason's demand is completely confused: you would imagine that any father in power to protect their children would do so; and if batman can't do it, then maybe he shouldn't be a father. (fair and square. vigilantes don't make for the best parents because the world will usually come first) but most adults learn to compromise and sympathise with their parents more, and accept that they're not perfect. even if they love you unconditionally, they will not do everything and anything for you.

this will sound incredibly boring (and frankly speaking, is; there's no big resolution or anything) but i think if jason were in a better place and had time to mature more emotionally, he would eventually come to this conclusion. i know that lots of people say they hate scenarios in which he just gives up on his grievances to "play a happy family," but, isn't that how life goes? does it have to be "playing" a happy family if you simply learn to let go of something? personally i definitely wouldn't like it to happen abruptly, and as quickly as it usually does in fanfics, but i'd say realistically jason would either come to this realisation as years go by (and he's not 18 and scared out of his mind anymore) or he would decide that vigilantes with moral codes simply make for shitty fathers as a rule and give up. alternatively he remains resentful but in bruce's vicinity forever.

i don't know, does it make sense? this is all pretty much thinking out loud, let me know what you think.

[bloodtwin]

puck is so funny to me. he doesnt get jealous in romantic relationships at all. the only time he might get jealous is if his affection is unrequited, and the object of his affection is already with someone else. but tbh, i think that's more him being envious than really jealous.

other than that, any potential aggression he might display towards someone flirting with his partner(s) is always going to be in cases where he thinks his partner is being mistreated or disrespected in some way. or perhaps he simply does not like the person flirting with them. but he's not jealous. he wants his partner(s) to be & feel loved by ppl who really care about them / treat them right.

. . . IAGO, HOWEVER!!!!!!!!! he's very unhealthily attached to his twin lol. so sorry to any potential iago suitors, you are going to have to get through their rabid guard dog first. you breathe next to iago, and suddenly puck is breathing down your neck & growling. he is VERY PROTECTIVE of them. he's probably a bit possessive.

there's a lot of projection going on with his perception of literally anyone who interacts with iago. it is . . . so, so, so complicated for him. objectively, in his right mind & outside of bhaal's influence, he wants nothing more than for iago to be happy. he wants them to live. to experience all the good things life has to offer. and he wants them to be safe! protected & loved! he wants them to find someone who can do that for them!!! because he loves them so, so much. at his core, puck just wants what's best for iago.

the PROBLEM is that he knows that is not him. he is not the best for them. they are NOT safe around him, and they never will be because he is supposed to kill them. it's literally written in their blood; they are meant to die at his hand. and oh, how many times he's tried to do it against his will. a few times, he almost tried on purpose- to kill them quickly & painlessly because he knew that wouldn't be how they died if he wasn't in control. but he could never do it because all he really wants to do is protect them.

puck is always very alert & on guard in general, but when it comes to iago those instincts skyrocket. especially about himself, but he takes it out on others. someone makes so much as a mildly snide remark to iago, and they're dead on the ground within seconds. puck just cannot handle the idea of someone else hurting iago because he already puts them through so much. (there's also the subconscious predator instinct. y'know, that's his prey, but he suppresses that as much as he possibly can because oh my god.)

there's also, of course, the insecurity. oh my god the insecurity. puck feels so much shame & guilt. he knows iago would be far better off without him, but that's his sibling. his TWIN. they've literally always been there for him & vice versa. no matter what happened he always knew they'd be right next to him, so he can never bring himself to push them away. he doesn't want to push them away. furthermore, they're also kind of . . . all each other even has? he's iago's only friend, and they're his. so he's afraid of them running off with someone else & never coming back home because they realized they're safer that way. i don't think he does this intentionally; it's definitely subconscious. if you asked him, he'd tell you that he & iago would never abandon each other & of course they can be with whoever they want! he doesn't mind! really!!! haha but what are your intentions with my sibling tho i will murder you if you even touch a hair on their head

^ IN THEORY. puck has very high standards for them. their partner had better be the BEST of the BEST. he can & will try to give their partner rabies or perhaps kill them if they don't meet the mark. this is why it was actually a fucking miracle that iago's canon romance is wyll because puck would have become the joker had it been literally anyone else.

basically . . . if puck can't protect iago from himself, he's going to do everythinggg he can to protect them from everyone else. he WILL protect them from everyone else. so. i am sorry for all the iago romancers out there. there is a dog barking outside your window, and he is about to start crawling into your walls with like. a Chainsaw.

[drawingpad-studios]

Gotten the story a bit wrong before I found the pages but the story was still pretty much that. Also I remembered its name, I think, it was called "It's Only Nature", I did one of those things where they say the title in the story too(because there was a panel in the comic that was similar to the cover I had for it that a friend drew)

CW for object blood(I guess), it's wildberry puree

Anyways, 2022 art jumpscare(these aren't all the pages, due to the image limit just the ones I found a bit funny or thought I should share more than the others)

The first two pages are pretty much too much exposition, but I found this one funny because I did the sin of not fully drawing my backgrounds. *insert Ibis Paint X material PNG here*:

What was even the pacing of this one, you can barely see the little talk bubble the "butterfly" has. Also where the hell did that third arm come from?:

The last panel is just unironically funny, I'm not gonna lie to y'all:

Cropped out my favorite panels in this page because the page does contain a dead body of an object. This part of the chapter this page was in was supposed to be the big serious turning point, but then I just had these goofy panels in the middle:

And this wasn't the only instance of goofy panels, there was this panel in the page before. They're so unironically goofy in one would argue would be the most important part of the story where it's supposed to be completely serious. Considering a murder of a child object just happened:

🫵"ey! He said it! He said the thing! He said the title"(4th panel). Also I don't know why the sketch of the next page got merged to this page, so don't ask me why there's a sketch over it, I can't really fix it.

Blud is just laughing here. MF be going though his joker arc, lmao:

And then suddenly 7 months later. How or why this happened? Why wasn't there pages showing how the rest of the Dreamflies turned and got taken over? we'll never know because this chapter(that contained 3 pages) was the last thing made for the comic:

NGL, finding the pages and looking at them now. I kinda want to remake the comic actually. Not like having it be set in my object universe's cannon, I would keep it in the cannon it's in even if that cannon isn't accurate to current.

Idk thou, I'll think about it

Just a bit of rambling, because I thought of this while drawing.

I just remembered this old comic I tried to do back on Wattpad. It was before I joined Tumblr and back when Object Show rp books where in my opinion at their peak (at least in my friend group's books, we be going wild in those books). It was a comic about the dreamslug king (at the time), Donwick, trying to gain the win of the dream war against his twin brother Canwick, the dreamfly king, via making his twin go insane enough to do what dreamslugs do to survive(which at the time was to kill and eat objects).

It was very poorly drawn, poorly written, and didn't go past the part where Canwick actually killed on accident and ate (he was starving because of Donwick) one of my object characters(more specifically; Berry) and also went fully insane. Because younger me couldn't focus enough time that it takes to actually make a comic and was unhappy with how the art looked.

Would I remake it now? No. It's not like I don't want to, I would have loved to remake it now. Thou I don't know where the pages went(and I didn't have a doc for it) so I can't remember the story beats so far and also the lore surrounding the Dreamwar and the residence of the Dreamscape has sense drastically changed to the point that one of the twins(Donwick) was changed from King to a high knight in the kingdom they live in(due to his feelings about royalty and the accident he and Canwick made that caused the domino effect to the civil/species war in the Dreamscape). So even if I did remake it the story would need a huge rehaul to the point where it would be an entirely new story.

[notquiteaghost]

there's so much to unpack in The Jason Problem that it is kinda unfair to expect every fanwork to bother but, yknow. is the unpacking not what's fun???

like ok. jason is murdered, he gets better, he wants the guy who murdered him dead. i honestly think that's reasonable. it being the joker makes it possibly the most cut-and-dry it could get, morally, cuz the joker's sole motivation is causing pain. there's the potential for a really good story abt privileged white men who are violent n dangerous very intentionally because they think they have the right who cry insanity after, in the joker. do not at all trust dc to tell it. anyway,

oh this got long. ok a lot more yelling that is actually abt jason under the cut

the joker should die, but bruce can't kill him, because unfortunately jason u are not the only horribly traumatised person here. it's conflicting access needs. they need to talk this out with an objective third party, they never will, having A Thing you should definitely talk out with bruce and will avoid talking out with bruce as long as you live is like a requirement for batfam membership, that isn't the problem

The Jason Problem is. murder IS wrong. people should not be killed. but, also, we do not live in a vacuum, and our society currently churns out a small but significant number of people who are actively dangerous and will only stop being actively dangerous when they are dead. that sucks! we shld do smth abt that! but nothing anyone can do now will fix everyone overnight. that's the core tension jason creates by existing in a story, because batman is not a long-term solution, batman is a stopgap. and jason is, by some metrics, a better stopgap

the problem with jason's methods isn't actually how moral they are, the problem is it's very difficult to kill someone without it affecting someone else you've never even heard of. any time jason kills someone without first researching them right down to how they organise their underwear, he cld be leaving dependents without a caregiver or households without a primary earner or anyone without medical insurance or etc etc. even people doing terrible things can be keeping other people alive. and of course if he's mostly killing goons well then he's mostly killing poor people who probably don't have many other options isn't he, and it is in fact a disservice to his character to have him not target rich people. as if a kid who grew up in poverty n then lived with the All Of Gotham's Problems Are My Problems To Fix Personally guy wouldn't have a very specific hit list. nvm organised crime jason shld kill republicans.

anyway (...two!), THEN there's the aspect ive yet to see addressed in a way that doesnt make me twitch: the lazarus pit. the ableism inherent in every canon interpretation. that to kill anyone you need to be insane, that Lazarus Pit Madness is somehow a separate unique phenomenon from the inherent trauma of dying and then being resurrected, that jason doesnt have ptsd even before he died. the perennial batman media problem of criminals not deserving adequate care. how jason went to arkham, how arkham still exists.

it is my instinct whenever media makes a character ~crazy as a lazy excuse for being a villain to say okay, yeah, they're mentally ill now, no takebacks. and like you cannot tell me jason doesnt have cptsd, but i think post-lazarus pit jason shld be on anti psychotics and mood stabilizers. i think if ur gonna tell me the pit madness '''got better''' then it is because jason is on psychiatric medication. it is very Yikes! to have the only or primary symptom of mental illness be murder, which is why the murder shld not be a thing he is doing because he's crazy. he has lost the things previously stopping him murdering (need for bruce's approval / being fifteen), and also he's horrendously traumatised.

i think red hood stuff is the one part of his life he's reliably capable of thinking rationally about, because compartmentalising your personal shit in order to work a case is absolutely in robin training 101. he'll make a ten-step plan that involves running surveillance, breaking n entering, multiple fake identities, and execute it all perfectly, then go home and have to remove all the mirrors from his apartment cuz [redacted for being potentially delusion-triggering].

by which i do not mean that mental illness is smth u can train urself out of, but that pushing yourself to an unreasonable degree is a cornerstone of being a bat. he absolutely makes his shit worse by trying to act like he can just turn it on n off. they all do this, what differs is simply the symptoms n problems.

and! speaking of bats! obviously bruce is going to continue to have a problem abt the murder literally forever, holding everyone else to the torturous standards he holds himself to is a fundamental fatal flaw of his. but that does not have to be true of anyone else, and i think it makes for much more of an interesting dynamic if everyone else is on a sliding scale of 'Murder Is Wrong but he is family' to 'moral objectivity is a scam' to 'if bruce won't let me kill anyone then someone shld get to'.

like, yes this is objectively very fucked up. batman media is objectively very fucked up things the whole way down, that's why im here, let's explore the implications of your dead brother coming back to life n becoming a serial killer. i guess u can just have him not kill people but is that not boring? why not have everyone else have to reckon with what unconditional love truly means

uhhhh i forgot if i actually had an overarching point. in summary let jason kill people in actual positions of power because hey you never know maybe if half the oil barons die that might motivate the rest!

[r-cabrera]

Princess of Gotham

Chapter 21: A Dark Soul

Patrolling that night was heavier than other days. Muggers, vandals, thieves, more of the Joker's helpers, people who for some reason want to look like major league villains.

"I'm surprised the Joker hasn't made an appearance," said Scorpion, who was out patrolling with us that night when we were having refreshments in an alley.

"I'm not surprised, he already knows that Batman is not in charge of us, and at any moment we could attack him together," said Callan, petting her wolf and playing with him.

"Many of his plans take time, remember that time he kidnapped the whole Bat-family and almost killed us?" asked Olive, practicing her javelin throw.

"Traumatic experiences. He left my father in a coma, at least it helped him improve his relationship with Batman. After that, we all thought the Joker was dead and look." I said while fixing my suit with the shadow.

Suddenly a burst of sinister laughter was heard at the bottom of that alley, because of the lack of light no one could distinguish who it was. Those who were seated stood up, immediately becoming alert.

"Come out into the light if you don't want to get hurt," said Scorpion with his bow ready. Callan's wolf began to growl, baring its teeth. Pandora moved into a defensive stance and I took the shadow and began to drag it along the ground.

The laughter grew louder as it got closer to the reflection of the moonlight. For a few moments, I caught a glimpse of a black hand rising right in front of the beam of light. I tried to focus the viewfinder to see if it was holding something in its hand or if it was emanating energy to activate some power.

A shiny object dazzled me for a moment, then I could see the dagger and fury running through my veins.

"It can't be!" I shouted and then ran away while I grabbed the shadow with my hand. That specter ran as soon as the light hit my face. With the shadow, I began to climb up the wall of the building, trying to reach that person.

"Eclipse!" I heard screaming behind me, but I couldn't stop, I had to get that dagger, I couldn't let just anyone get their hands on it.

For some reason, the rest of the streets were empty, which made it easier for me to follow them. I didn't even mind the screams of my companions. At one point they were trying to contact me through the intercom, so bad was my desperation that the only thing I could think of was to throw the device to the ground.

I got to an old abandoned warehouse and entered, the lights were off and nothing could be heard. Fear was starting to take over my system, I could no longer think straight, I was starting to get dizzy. I felt so bad that I didn't notice when my visor started to fail.

The same laughter was heard again, but this time much eerier because of the echoing sound of the place. I slowly pulled out my gun and took the safety off, ready to shoot at any moment.

"You've become very paranoid for a while now," I heard a male voice say, quite familiar to me. But other than that, nothing could be heard.

"No, I just know your tricks," I said, starting to walk deeper into the facility.

"Admit you missed me," he said, after which there was a thump, like when something falls on their bare feet. I shot towards the ceiling, trying to look a little more intimidating.

"Every day I wait for the hour when your end comes...and all of your kind's," I told him, pointing this time towards the place where I felt the voice was coming from.

"I've noticed. You've been trying to make your companions trust you enough, and then you've been dragging them into a war that doesn't belong to them," a small laugh was heard as soon as he finished speaking.

"This war is not your war either, but look at us," I commented. The moonlight was coming through one of the windows, making me see the face of one of my worst enemies for the first time in years. The face of one of many traitors.

"Touché.

"Have you been following me?" I asked. I was about to shoot when I remembered something, it was going to be almost impossible for any of my bullets to hurt him.

"Maybe." The boy was a little taller than me, he wore a long black cloak and his hair waved in a wind that did not exist in that place, his face was covered with a mask and a red aura.

"Where are the others? - I asked him, if his companions were around, I wouldn't stand a chance against them, I thought this would be a reunion of ex-colleagues.

"Today it's just you and me," he said, and with each word, he took a step closer to me.

"Give me the dagger and I won't hurt you," I extended the hand that wasn't holding the gun towards him.

"What if I don't want to?" he asked, pulling the dagger out from under his cloak.

"I will take it by force." My trench coat blended into my shadow as soon as I put the gun away and the gloves began to stretch. I couldn't let them have that kind of weapon in their possession.

"You? Alone? Please, you never take anything by force" I already knew that all he wanted to do was to enrage me, to make me attack him blindly so that he would get the upper hand. I wouldn't let him do it.

I wouldn't let some random being control me. Because that's what they were. Beings of pure darkness, envy, and pride. Empowered by the idea that meta-humans were the superior race.

Who I had in front of me at first glance might seem like a sweet, kind, and even attractive boy. If it weren't for the black eyes. Inside, he was the most rotten soul I knew.

The attempted human in front of me was playing with the edge of the dagger.

"Give it to me now," I ordered, taking a few steps forward, making the sound of the heel of my boots echo within those four walls and trying to look intimidating.

"Why would I give it to you? The last time we met you told me that you were no longer my leader, I don't have to follow your orders anymore," his stupid smile was not erased from his face.

At that moment I noticed that a strange purple fire began to spread from the bottom of the cellar. I put the shadow away and took a few steps back. The boy in front of me looked back.

"What the hell are you doing?" he shouted, turning to look at me. That couldn't be me, I have never done something like that alone, I could only do it with the help of Hakan, Pandora, or Shade and we only did it in extreme situations. Besides, my shadow was still with me.

The boy looked at me angrily, throwing the dagger to the ground, then vanished and left.

The fire did not stop and had already blocked the only door in that place. With the help of the shadow, I made a mask to prevent the smoke from entering my system, but it was too late, I began to feel my body heavy and I could no longer stand up for long.

In a moment, the window broke, letting in a lot of black smoke. When it reached my side it dissipated, revealing my brother, signaling to me that everything was going to be okay. He helped me to my feet and transported us to safety, away from the purple fire and the shadows.

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