#i do think that doodles can be ethically bred

[wandering-wolf23]

My shelter Border Collie/Aussie Shepherd mix was an absolute nut case. I loved that dog, but she was as reactive as hell and incredibly aggressive to other dogs. She also only lived to be 8.

My Border Collie/Aussie Mix from a breeder who health and temperament tested both parents and did her best to ensure working ability was a joy of a dog to own. She had incredible working drive and, most importantly, didn't try to kill other dogs on sight. She lived to be 14.

My Presa Canario who functioned as a mobility dog for me after my wreck was an amazing animal. She came from a breeder who did all of the tests and has a 2 year waiting list for puppies. Maggie lived to be 13.

My random bred sorta pit bull mutt who showed up in the yard one day had a list of allergies longer than my current health issues cat. His sister dropped dead of a heart attack three months after we found them. Skippy always had issues and died of cancer at around age 7.

I've adopted dogs and bought them. I currently have a dump out sorta Golden Retriever puppy who has already become the most expensive animal I own (this is saying something, because both of my cats had high medical bills). There's a huge difference in the dogs who are health tested and the ones who aren't. I've seen it in my dogs and I'm cringing to think of the problems Jenny might develop down the road.

The problem isn't responsible breeders - it's people like the ones @talesfromtreatment wrote about who only see animals as $$$$.

Controversial opinion maybe but I dont think dogs need to be champion show dogs to be ethically bred

[heart-of-copper-dog-training]

Purebreed vs Rescue

A common debate among the dog loving community is purebred dogs vs rescues. Several things contribute to this and of course I'm going to talk about my own opinion on them.

First, I'm going to say that while there is such a thing as a bad breeder, there are also ethical breeders who genuinely care about the health and welfare of their dogs, as well as the temperament and purpose of the dogs they are breeding. To buy from these breeders is not a bad thing if you know what you need in a dog, have a specific purpose in mind, or simply want to know the most likely temperament and health from puppy to adulthood because it is much more controlled. I also contend with certain breeds of dogs being bred to more and more extremes (french bulldogs, bulldogs in general, any dog with high health issues due to their need to conform to "standard") because these are NOT ethical. They may be well cared for and have a certain temperament, but I can't support dogs that can barely breathe and often have expensive surgeries and/or die due to aesthetics.

Buying from an unethical breeder is something I will never agree with. I'd say your average dog owner knows what a puppy mill is, but many don't understand why a backyard breeder is not much better. Supporting those who breed simply because they have two dogs that are technically purebred (getting an akc registration is actually easier than you'd think) is supporting over breeding, even if the dogs are well cared for. These dogs are at best minimally medically tested with random temperament, and at worst, simply purebred with no testing in any way. Please do your research before buying.

Pet shops carry unethical dogs. Whether fad breeds or "rare" colors (i.e. nonconforming or not even possible colors like a silver lab which is a mix of a Weimaraner and a Labrador), an ethical breeder will not supply these shops.

Fad "breeds" are also something I struggle with. Many of these doodle mixes have become a bane on the dog world. They are cute and adorable, but often mixed with breeds that cause incompatible drives leading to heavy behavior problems being bred into them right from the start. Doodles are worse off due to their cuteness and being marketed as "great beginner dogs" which often translates to new owners as "needs minimal to no training/socialization". While doodles do bring in clients, I would rather they not. Same goes for many of these "purebred" crossbreeds, such as shepskies, pitskies, etc. These dogs are selling for high prices with breeds that should not mix and can cause at best challenging but high drive dogs and at worst a bit of a nightmare for most dog owners.

All that said, I support ethical breeders. I support buying a dog for a specific job (service, sport, search and rescue etc). And I support new owners looking for a more predictable dog with the lifelong support a breeder will bring to that dog. Buying responsibly is not a bad thing, and is what keeps some of these breeds alive.

Now, let's talk rescues. Rescue culture is interesting. Back when I was younger, we just called dogs from shelters/streets/oopsie litters mutts. Sometimes we got lucky and got a purebred from a shelter, and we'd say that was a lucky find (by the way, there are purebreed rescues and many dogs in shelters are purebred, often due to guardians not knowing the demands of a breed or overbreeding). The culture around mutts has shifted to become a more positive one. Now we say "rescue", seemingly referring to any dog that is not directly from a breeder or pet shop is a rescue. I have personally rescued dogs off the street. This is not a humble brag, just a statement of facts. Of those I picked up, several were in poor health and needed medical treatment, and many were just a little dirty and skinny in need of a bath and food. Of these, I kept none, but rehomed all of them.

I'm not here to gatekeep the term rescue, but to put some context into it. While I support adopting from shelters, there is a new culture of calling all dogs in a shelter a "rescue" even if the dog was born there, an owner surrender, or never in any medical/physical/mental trauma to begin with. This culture shift was to aid the shelters in moving dogs and encouraging guardians to "adopt not shop" wasn't enough. They needed to have people feel good about their dog in a way that was more than just "I didn't buy a puppy" so they shifted to calling all dogs rescues. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but it leads to a ton of misconceptions.

Shelters are a traumatizing environment for dogs. Many dogs who are in a shelter long enough suffer mental trauma and can appear as though they were abused. It's very easy for a shelter or future guardian to talk about their dog in a way that personifies them (again, sometimes helpful, sometimes not) and paints a tragedy around a dog who probably was never abused but actually just needs help working through the trauma of just being in a shelter.

Why is this a problem? Well, it's because I meet guardians who assume nothing can be done, that this is "just the way she/he is" because "they were abused". They "hate men" so therefore "a man must have hurt them". So while they love their dog, they never seek the proper help for their dogs' mental state and the dog carries that trauma with them. But they do get to carry that badge of honor saying they "rescued" a dog, whether or not any abuse took place.

I have met puppies from a breeder (I actually have a client right now with this issue) that started from a breeder but was (in this specific case a covid puppy) undersocialized. These puppies turn into adult dogs that are fearful, skittish, and scared of things they weren't ever exposed to in a positive way. Things such as men in hats, tall people, people who are not in the household. These dogs duck and cower and bark. These dogs would appear to be "abuse cases" if they appeared in a shelter (and many of them do, because these behaviors can become overwhelming and guardians can feel too ashamed to return the dog to the breeder or worse, got it from an unethical breeder). Maybe their temperament was poorly bred, too, which compounded things. These dogs would end up in a shelter with a sob story and probably be adopted by kind hearted individuals who want to save the dog and tell everyone they rescued the dog.

This weird culture over having a "rescued dog" badge of honor leads many guardians who really would do better with an ethical breeder to adopt a shelter dog instead. And, as much as this pains me to say, shelter dogs (abused or not) are not for everyone. Shelter dogs can be a huge challenge. They have trauma, whether from the environment or the past, whether they are undersocialized or oversocialized. They will often come with behaviors that are not for the feint of heart, and certainly not for first time guardians. But people feel guilty buying from an ethical breeder and feel the need to defend their decision.

Marginal dogs are often adopted out to inexperienced guardians. Even going to an experienced guardian or trainer can cause rescue burn out. A family feeling the pressure of adopting and "rescuing" rather than getting a dog that is more practical for their lifestyle will adopt these dogs and sometimes get lucky, but often times end up with a dog they have no idea what to do with and may quickly return, leading to a revolving door for some dogs which adds to shelter trauma. A family who gets enough behavior problem dogs from a shelter without knowing where to find proper help ("this is just how they are because they were abused") WILL burn out and WILL make shelter dogs look like "all shelter dogs are bad dogs" and "all shelter dogs have behavior problems".

Shelter dogs are a big, beautiful unknown. They can be diamonds in the rough, or they can be a new learning experience for an upcoming dog trainer. They can be the inspiration for some to LEARN about training and behavior in dogs. They can be a therapy dog (Copper, who inspired my namesake, was such a dog), they can be a service dog, a sports dog, a working dog. They can be an anxious dog, a dog with separation anxiety, a dog with aggressive behavior towards certain triggers. They can be beautiful or funny looking (in the cutest ways) and graceful or clumsy as Scooby Doo (looking at Pancake right now). They can have past health issues that come back to haunt new owners or be more healthy than most purebreds.

So what does all of this mean? Who's better, purebreds or rescues?

I think the more important question is: what do you want in a dog, and what are you prepared to handle? Once you know that answer, you will know who is better for YOU.

Stop shaming ethical breeders. Stop shaming shelter dogs who have behaviors their guardians don't have the knowledge or resources to handle. Stop shaming those who bought from an unethical breeder unknowingly because they were never given the chance to learn. Stop shaming guardians who turn to breeders after having a bad experience with a shelter dog.

Educate. Show sympathy and kindness. Show them resources for any of these guardians. Why are huskies a challenging breed, and what can guardians do with a shelter dog that needs more help?

Dogs are dogs, and we love them. But we are doing a disservice by simply slotting them into "breeder vs rescue". We are ignoring the nuances of what these terms mean and we are not educating those who need it most to help those dogs who need it most.

We need to focus on our mutual love for dogs and educate those who do not have the knowledge, background, or resources to find it themselves.

As always, be kind to yourself, to your dogs, and to others. It is free to be kind.

[darkwood-sleddog]

What is your most disagreement take within the dog community? Not to start anything, but honestly curious as I'm wondering what you think needs to be addressed more within the community; like breed discrimination, or certain breeds having bad traits, or people having not so good ideas on what certain breeds should be.

1.) the dog community is huge so there’s not going to be a single opinion I can have that is is wide disagreement with it as a whole as it is too diverse for this to occur, however these are all my ~unpopular~ dog opinions:

I think the way that the AKC registers and titles dogs for conformation needs major reform. I think saying conformation is a “sport” as a majority of people here in North America do is harmful and breeds a competitive spirit in breeders/owners/and handlers as well as an unnecessary amount of physical uniformity within dog breeds.

What I would like to see (and what would never happen):

-graded conformation. (Meets standard Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor as an example). Get rid of the current point system.

-dogs must pass breed appropriate health testing and temperament testing to be championed or graded excellent and good examples of breed). For working breeds this in my opinion should include a working test of some kind.

- do not allow professional handlers.

-only register puppies of health tested parents.

- allow intact mixed bred dogs to compete in sporting, trick, companion test events and generally stop the villainizing of breeding mixed breed dogs when said breeding is done appropriately.

Not AKC related I think that in North America more shelters need to not be so strictly no kill (this opinion may be controversial amongst some dog folk but idc). There are dogs that are not temperamentally okay to live, such as those posing a legitimate danger to people and the general public, and letting them go painlessly is better than them languishing in the shelter system for years. The funds used to keep these dogs could be better served helping dogs that can actually be homes safely and/or helping struggling community members so their dogs do not have to enter the shelter system.

-FUND LOW COST VETERINARY CARE

-stop continuing to push laws and local legislation that seeks to restrict how people contain their dogs outside. Instead focus on reaching out to struggling community members in a positive way and respond to ethics concern with care for both the dogs and people involved. Funding low cost alternative containment/helping generally better containment and welfare of animals is imo better than legislating away the problem.

in a dog breed sense: stop woobifying dog breeds with the potential for aggression both towards dogs and people. Playing down a breed or dog type’s potential for dog or human aggression is not only dangerous but does a huge disservice to these breeds.

In a dog breeding sense: I think that those looking to better legitimize several popular companion breed mixes are doing good work but ultimately if they can’t drop the designer name and/or rally their communities instead of dividing into a bunch of little groups they are unlikely to succeed as they are then falling into some of the same traps as some purebred breeds. They have an opportunity to do better without hard baking those divisions into their communities.

-Stop naming dog breeds after indigenous racial slurs. Stop naming non indigenous dog breeds after indigenous groups.

-Companionship is a purpose.

-many dogs bred for sport are not fit temperamentally for their original purpose.

-“hated” dog breed mixed such as doodles and wolfdogs are NOT going away and are already being bred in large numbers (doodles way more obviously). Any attempts by the dog fancy or ethics groups to legislate these out of existence is pointless and will fail. Instead try and nudge these communities towards better breeding ethics and customer education. Uplift the breeders in these communities doing good work for health and temperament testing.

-people really need to stop adding Merle into every goddamn dog mix. It takes a lot of knowledge to breed Merle carefully. Some Merle variants in established purebreed dogs need serious examination from an ethical standpoint.

-crates are fine but like many other tools are very often over used to the point of cruelty. I usually find them unnecessary past puppyhood for well adjusted adult dogs.

-stop expecting everybody else to love your dog just because YOU love your dog. Your dog’s freedoms should not come at the expense of the general public’s ability to walk, bike, exist safely within public spaces.

[firelightfoxes]

i saw a post recently that made me want to state my opinion on something.

i do not hate doodles. in fact, i would say i'm pro doodle. as long as the doodle is bred or acquired ethically, i have 0 problem with them existing.

obviously doodles can have problems much like many other breeds. many. most of them. but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist! and uninformed/uneducated buyers will unfortunately always be a thing. it doesn't mean that whatever they're buying shouldn't exist.

i don't anymore, but i worked in the animal industry (pet retail, shelter, and veterinary) for about 3 years. i NEVER saw a doodle that was as awful as so many people paint them to be. i'm not saying they don't exist! just anecdotally, i interacted with plenty of doodles that were totally fine. not my cup of tea as far as dogs go, but non problematic. in fact, most of the nervy messes i can remember were purebreds (looking at you schnauzers). that does not mean i think that schnauzers should not exist or that we should witch hunt the people who breed or own them.

in my experience working in rescue, i very rarely saw any dogs that could've been a poodle mix (think curls or furnishings) - and when i did, they wouldn't last more than a day there before getting adopted. people like doodley dogs! i understand this may differ regionally, but where i'm located, we don't have an overpopulation problem of doodles. we DO have a very clear overpopulation of pitbulls and bully breed mixes.

but back to the point. people hate doodles for all sorts of reasons - they're designer dogs, they're a fad, they're bred for money, their coats are bad, etc etc. okay fine, you're entitled to that - but you CAN'T hate doodles for those reasons unless you also hate all the other breeds or mixes (sport mixes!!!) that fall under the above criteria as well. doodles aren't special. they're not different. they're just another type of dog and people like them. popularity isn't a sin. lots of breeds have had their time in the spotlight and yet their owners aren't verbally flogged for having them.

i'm pro rescue and adoption. i'm pro ethical breeding. i have a rescue mutt from a shelter and i have a purebred dog from a breeder. and i believe that doodles fill a niche in a lot of homes that other breeds don't. hence their popularity. if you hate doodles, i think you should really try to think deeply about WHY. like, i'll most likely never own a doodle because they're not what i want in a dog - and if you groomed them and thought they were always annoying and you dislike them - fine! but when you think that every single doodle is the scourge of the earth and people should be ashamed for owning them, you need to sit down and think about that, because chances are you've fallen prey to some sort of anti-doodle propaganda without truly examining the facts.

[girlhorse]

on a very basic level i am not anti doodle, even the poorly bred ones usually are temperamentally just fine if not a bit anxious or energetic. most of them do fine with families and id rather see them with pet owners than other more intense breeds. I AM staunchly anti fad-breeding and unethical breeding practices whcih unfortunately is the reality of the vast majority of doodle breeders (though pure bred dogs are absolutely also plagued by shitty breeders)

i do think some of the mixes made are Bat Shit and poorly thought out (ie husky x poodle) or just completely redundant (ie bichon x poodle) but a lot of them are produced to fill a growing demand in the USA for a non shedding (not all doodles are non shedding which i will explain if anyone wants to know), "family friendly" companion dog that can easily adapt to a suburban or urban environment. personally i *do* think plenty of purebred dogs actually meet this need, (poodles, maltese, mini schnauz, bichon, coton de tulear, havanese ❤️❤️❤️❤️, cresteds, boston terriers, lowchen, etc) but they are typically small dogs (a lot of doodle owners, tho not all, want an 20-60lb dog) or they may still be a little too high energy to be companion dogs (spoos).

There's still also the pervasive myth that hybrid dogs are healthier than purebreds, which is a misconception about genetics and ethical breeding practices, but it's hard to get people to change their minds.

Personally i think instead of shunning doodle breeders from purebred dog circles, it might be better to at the very least Educate and Provide resources for those that actually want to take the steps to breed as ethically as possible, (ie health testing, titling dogs, having a drawn up "standard" or function that Makes Sense, and being careful about choosing sire and dam, etc), even to the point of mentoring and selling breeding prospects to RESPONSIBLE doodle breeders. We also need to continue to educate people on spotting red flags in dog breeders and shifting the focus from buying a puppy to finding a breeder you want a dog from

Because the reality is regardless of how much push back doodle owners and breeders get from the purebred community, they are still going to be bred and going to have demand so long as we are living in a nuclear family style hellscape, and the further purebred communities push doodle owners and breeders away, the less likely they are to ever interact with purebred dogs and communities ever which tbh is vital for the production of temperamentally sound and healthy dogs.

[doberbutts]

re; doodles, they are likely never going to be the dog for me, but they're fine imo.

I see 3 or 4 types of doodles

cash grab breeders. These obviously exist in all areas of dog breeding, but they must be acknowledged all the same.

Hypo breeders. Breeders who think they are improving the animals by introducing hair coats to the equation. These are perhaps on the first steps towards actual good ethics, but imo often miss the mark.

Sturdy Dog breeders. people who breed burnadoodles and other cart/working dog crosses. Usually with some sort of hypo service dog in mind. Perhaps not doing everything I want in a breeder, but still better than 1 or 2.

cobberdogs et al breeders. The first doodles were an attempt to create a working guide dog with a hair coat because it was found that -most- poodles don't mind running their handler into things like labs and goldens but there are blind people with dog allergies. This has resulted thus far in a few 'new breeds' or breeds in development such as the Cobberdog. These dogs are bred with service in mind, but those who don't make it as service dogs are often career changed to family pets or sports dogs. These people care a lot about the health and characteristics of the dogs they are breeding.

There is, of course, nuances to be made all the way along and I also don't get why someone would want a /doberdoodle/ that just sounds like an oxymoron to me. But I can see my way around a few of the mixes.

But in the end, not my pony not my race.

As said I just don't get it. People can do what they want, I just don't understand because even #4 is easily solveable with "just breed poodles that do not do this" because dog genetics and genetic temperaments are so moldable that if you want to breed a poodle for a specific temperament trait you can easily just. Do that. There are a number of guide orgs that exclusively use poodles and do exactly that. Why not support those, with the guarantee of a coat that's more friendly to allergy sufferers, instead of a diceroll mixed bag of traits that you won't even know if you succeeded on the allergy thing until the dog is old enough to start shedding?

It's not a moral issue for me. I genuinely don't care. I just don't understand why this is such a popular thing when genuinely most people I've spoken to just want a poodle.

[queerautism]

I want to clarify that I am not against all mixed breeds. Sport mixes and work mixes ethically bred are great dogs, I have no issues with that. And there are Many awful purebred breeders.

I think I'm really defensive because poodles are my breed and people in these discussions routinely underestimate them and say that they want X lab trait when 1. Mixing breeds just cannot be predicted to give you the trait you want 2. Poodles often CAN have those traits if you find the right lines, and will absolutely be more consistent and predictable because that's kind of the entire point.

And again I'm mostly talking about people that write about doodles from a POV that's Very dismissive or sometimes straight up hostile towards poodles as a breed which is what's making me upset in this particular case, you know? Like why do you want dogs that are 50% a breed you clearly dislike? I don't see this with a lot of other types of mixes at all.

Absolutely agree with ethics being a series of questions and I would love to read that if you ever wrote it.

Anyway I'm gonna try to calm down and sleep.

Saw a terrible opinion on dog breeds and got so disproportionately angry i just blocked the blog bc i dont want to get into a huge fight right now

Idk why some people insist on defending the practice of breeding doodles so hard when they could just say 'I know nothing abt poodles and still don't like them' bc that's the exact vibe they end up with

[pawsitivevibe]

Dogs we have actual plans to own in the future: 

Silken Windhound. Trying to acquire a puppy for next year. 

Mudi. Was supposed to get one this year but the barking would not work for our current house. One day when we get an unattached house with some property. 

English Cocker Spaniel. The perfect dog. PERFECT I tell you. We might go to Holly’s breeder. 

Golden Retriever. I am nervous of cancer and hip problems but goddamn if you don’t sometimes look at a Retriever and think “damn I should just buy one.” Sporty dog but easy mode? One day I want to try out the top levels of traditional obedience and, like, my herding breeds will be too neurotic for that lol. Field trials seem interesting, too. 

Purpose bred mix. If I can get more into that world and find ethical breeders who prioritize function, health, structure, and temperament over some arbitrary old breed standard, then this is likely the route I’ll want to go for many future dogs. Get with the times and breed healthy dogs. Plus I love mutts, so if I could just have healthy mutts and do epic shit with them? That’s the dream BAYBEE. 

Other breeds I’d like to own:

Border Collie. I feel like I should own at least one in my lifetime lol. But where do I find a breeder that doesn’t lie about epilepsy in their lines? 

Australian Shepherd. Were at the top of the list for a while. I love working with them. Great all-around sport dogs sometimes. Have my eye on a few breeders who participate in tons of activities with their dogs . . . Though I would prefer one with a tail!

Shetland Sheepdog. One of my dream dogs as a kid! Another breed I really like working with. For a while after I first started agility I was pretty sure that’s what I wanted for my next dog. 

Whippet. I feel like we’d get along really well! I love the balance between sporty, energetic and ready to chill on the couch. Plus they’d make a great model for my dog pajamas business! Thought about one for next dog, but ultimately picked Silkens over them as they fit us even better. 

Doodle. Possibly of the Golden or Labra variety? Need to find a breeder who prioritizes health and temperament, and also does something with their dogs. Lovely happy mop dog. In a perfect world, we want that gorgeous Retriever temperament with CURLS. I love curly dogs. 

Ibizan Hound. Haha we’ll see. 

Rough Collie. When I want a calmer dog? My grandmother used to breed these! She had one when I was little that was obsessed with me, followed me everywhere, and never got tired of playing with me. Plus I was a huge Lassie fan. 

Jack Russell Terrier. God loves a terrier. Sometimes you just want a tiny dog that will terrorize your life. 

Don’t understand how some people can settle on one breed when there’s so many I want to try!!

[thelittlespanielthatcould]

I think it's funny that people lose their minds about doodles because yeah they're a target for bybs, lot of them are kinda nutty, the grooming is a lot, they're not my cup of tea personally but I literally see just as many byb disasters that are purebred dogs. Like idk how it to break it to these people but most of the purebred dogs that average joe dog owners get are byb, I see poorly bred GSDs/yorkies/even the almighty purebred labs way more often than I see well bred one's. Which yeah, is not great, I would like to see stricter regulations regarding ethical breeding, but sometimes people just don't know and burning them and doodles at the stake when they're actually trying to get help is a surefire way to lead them to shut off to you completely and do whatever the hell they want. Yes it is bad to get a doodle with no health testing expecting "hybrid vigor" to do the trick but it is just as bad to assume a breeder is ethical because they're "akc certified" like there is sooo much wrong in the world, can we please just be nice to eachother

[scrunglydogblog]

As a dog groomer of 5+ years, I've definitely been someone very anti-doodle (and still am for all the ones who don't come out of the one doodle club trying to do things right), but more recently, after listening to a lot of different information outlets I'm noticing there is rottenness in every dog community be it adopt don't shoppers, impulse buyers who go to puppy stores, and even conformation people. The issue is so much bigger and about society in general. I don't believe breed preservation is a justification to keep a population with inbreeding issues (looking at you, Sussex Spaniels and Otterhounds) around. Crossbreeding for a little diversity actually isn't the end of the world, believe it or not.

I think proving dogs should be essential either in crossbreeding or performance/confo breeding. I love my ethically bred purebred dog, but I understand the issues in my community also. My breed in particular has bad stuff going on in some places, though luckily the breeders I know personally are doing a very good job.

I was just talking to a coworker yesterday about where people get their dogs and some of my good but mostly bad experiences with rescue (getting a dog with extreme dog-directed food aggression towards our other dog that the shelter didn't mention nor did they seem to care or take us seriously about it when we had to return him 3 months later because it had only escalated, getting my small mutt and being forced to take him or he would go to someone else despite a parvo exposure and confirmed kennel cough).

I also learned recently that "just get a poodle" is a somewhat shallow statement because the community is gatekept HARD and your average doodle-seeker would not make it through that hard shell most likely.

I just see issues everywhere, and it's all people issues. It's laziness pitted against extreme pride and a failure to look at the big picture on both sides.

In the future I really hope we learn to be more objective. Society itself needs a break from how crazy our lives are in the first place, which would give us time to breathe and be able to get organized and better uneducated on literally everything. Security of housing is a huge start. Free education, please god. Doing something real about racism. About poverty and classism. About ableism. Doing something real about the environment. Working on our sense of community and lifting each other up, somehow, someday. It's all very much connected to the animals we have.

I would love to see a world where the health and happiness of dogs is paramount, be they rescues or ethically bred dogs, but the bigger issue is what's going on with humans. You can influence your social circle but the big picture will never change until human societies do (which, as humans, we should be more worried about.)

That's a lot of ramblings. I'm sure I'm wrong about some things, comments and other viewpoints welcome. But I had a lot of marbles rattling around that needed to be dumped out 😅

the vitriolic hate of the anti-crossbreeding, especially anti doodle people, is the screech of a dying creature that knows it's finished, that knows it cannot stop what's happening, but hopes if it screams loud enough it might stop killing itself faster.

[darkwood-sleddog]

Would like to hear your thoughts on wolfdogs. Irresponsible owners, misinformation, should we breed them, etc.

I’m quite neutral on wolfdogs in general.

The wolfdog community however has a huge irresponsible breeder problem. I personally struggle to understand the appeal of breeding non-wolfy wolfdogs as wolfy appearance is a huge part of their appeal for people. I dislike that the community is full of color breeders, breeders that think embark is = to health testing, breeders that don’t do health testing, breeders breeding dogs with unstable temperaments unsuitable to be around people. I’m sick of people thinking wild appearance = healthy or that adding wolf content into their domestic dog breeding program will bring in genetics soooo unique that it can’t be found elsewhere in other domestic dog breeds.

Essentially the community has a lot of the same issues as other popular companion bred mix breed programs like doodles. Are there people out there doing a genuinely great job with their individual programs creating solid sound dogs? Yes. Are there breed clubs with an aim towards standardization and ethics? Yes. Is it a majority? No.

As for should they exist. Well they exist already. Wolfdogs exist even as some standardized kennel club accepted breeds today (Czech Wolfdog, Sarloos, etc). People have been interested in adding wolves into dog populations for a long time and I don’t anticipate that is going to stop any time soon. Our aim should be to improve the ethics of their breeding and ownership because unlike doodles, the consequences of being ill prepared to house and care for even a low-content can spell disaster for both humans and dog.