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army-of-mai-lovers · 4 years ago

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in which I get progressively angrier at the various tropes of atla fandom misogyny

tbh I think it would serve all of us to have a larger conversation about the specific ways misogyny manifests in this fandom, because I’ve seen a lot of people who characterize themselves as feminists, many of whom are women themselves, discuss the female characters of atla/lok in misogynistic ways, and people don’t talk about it enough.

disclaimer before I start: I’m not a woman, I’m an afab nonbinary person who is semi-closeted and thus often read as a woman. I’m speaking to things that I’ve seen that have made me uncomfy, but if any women (esp women existing along other axes of oppression, e.g. trans women, women of color, disabled women, etc) want to add onto this post, please do!

“This female character is a total badass but I’m not even a little bit interested in exploring her as a human being.”

I’ve seen a lot of people say of various female characters in atla/lok, “I love her! She’s such a badass!” now, this statement on its own isn’t misogynistic, but it represents a pretty pervasive form of misogyny that I’ve seen leveled in large part toward the canon female love interests of one or both of the members of a popular gay ship (*cough* zukka *cough*) I’m going to use Suki as an example of this because I see it with her most often, but it can honestly be applied to nearly every female character in atla/lok. Basically, people will say that they stan Suki, but when it comes time to engage with her as an actual character, they refuse to do it. I’ve seen meta after meta about Zuko’s redemption arc, but I so rarely see people engage with Suki on any level beyond “look at this cool fight scene!” and yeah, I love a cool Suki fight scene as much as anybody else, but I’m also interested in meta and headcanons and fics about who she is as a person, when she isn’t an accessory to Sokka’s development or doing something cool. of course, the material for this kind of engagement with Suki is scant considering she doesn’t have a canon backstory (yet) (don’t let me down Faith Erin Hicks counting on you girl) but with the way I’ve seen people in this fandom expand upon canon to flesh out male characters, I know y’all have it in you to do more with Suki, and with all the female characters, than you currently do. frankly, the most engagement I’ve seen with Suki in mainstream fandom is justifying either zukki (which again, is characterizing her in relation to male characters, one of whom she barely interacts with in canon) or one of the Suki wlw pairings. which brings me to--

“I conveniently ship this female character whose canon love interest is one of the members of my favorite non-canon ship with another female character! gay rights!”

now, I will admit, two of my favorite atla ships are yueki and mailee, and so I totally understand being interested in these characters’ dynamics, even if, as is the case with yueki, they’ve never interacted canonically. however, it becomes a problem for me when these ships are always in the background of a zukka fic. at some point, it becomes obvious that you like this ship because it gets either Zuko or Sokka’s female love interests out of the way, not because you actually think the characters would mesh well together. It’s bad form to dislike a female character because she gets in the way of your gay ship, so instead, you find another girl to pair her off with and call it a day. to be clear, I’m not saying that everybody who ships either mailee or yueki (or tysuki or maisuki or yumai or whatever other wlw rarepair involving Zuko or Sokka’s canon love interests) is nefariously trying to sideline a female character while acting publicly as if she’s is one of their faves--far from it--but it is noteworthy to me how difficult it is to find content that centers wlw ships, while it’s incredibly easy to find content that centers zukka in which mailee and/or yueki plays a background role.

also, notice how little traction wlw Katara ships gain in this fandom. when’s the last time you saw yuetara on your dash? there’s no reason for wlw Katara ships to gain traction in a fandom that is so focused on Zuko and Sokka getting together, bc she doesn’t present an immediate obstacle to that goal (at least, not an obstacle that can be overcome by pairing her up with a woman). if you are primarily interested in Zuko and Sokka’s relationship, and your queer readings of other female characters are motivated by a desire to get them out of the way for zukka, then Katara’s canon m/f relationship isn’t a threat to you, and thus, there’s no reason to read her as potentially queer. Or even, really, to think about her at all.

“Katara’s here but she’s not actually going to do anything, because deep down, I’m not interested in her as a person.”

the show has an enormous amount of textual evidence to support the claim that Sokka and Katara are integral parts of each other’s lives. so, she typically makes some kind of appearance in zukka content. sometimes, her presence in the story is as an actual character with layers and nuance, someone whom Sokka cares about and who cares about Sokka in return, but also has her own life and goals outside of her brother (or other male characters, for that matter.) sometimes, however, she’s just there because halfway through writing the author remembered that Sokka actually has a sister who’s a huge part of the show they’re writing fanfiction for, and then they proceed to show her having a meetcute with Aang or helping Sokka through an emotional problem, without expressing wants or desires outside of those characters. I’m honestly really surprised that I haven’t seen more people calling out the fact that so much of Katara’s personality in fanon revolves around her connections to men? she’s Aang’s girlfriend, she’s Sokka’s sister, she’s Zuko’s bestie. never mind that in canon she spends an enormous amount of time fighting against (anachronistic, Westernized) sexism to establish herself as a person in her own right, outside of these connections. and that in canon she has such interesting complex relationships with other female characters (e.g. Toph, Kanna, Hama, Korra if you want to write lok content) or that there are a plethora of characters with whom she could have interesting relationships with in fanon (Mai, Suki, Ty Lee, Yue, Smellerbee, and if you want to write lok content, Kya II, Lin, Asami, Senna, etc). to me, the lack of fandom material exploring Katara’s relationships with other women or with herself speak to a profound indifference to Katara as a character. I’m not saying you have to like Katara or include her in everything you write, but I am asking you to consider why you don’t find her interesting outside of her relationships with men.

“I hate Katara because she talks about her mother dying too often.”

this is something I’ve seen addressed by people far more qualified than I to address it, but I want to mention it here in part because when I asked people which fandom tropes they wanted me to talk about, this came up often, but also because I find it really disgusting that this is a thing that needs to be addressed at all. Y’all see a little girl who watched her mother be killed by the forces of an imperialist nation and say that she talks about it too much??? That is a formational, foundational event in a child’s life. Of course she’s going to talk about it. I’ve seen people say that she doesn’t talk about it that often, or that she only talks about it to connect with other victims of fn imperialism e.g. Jet and Haru, but frankly, she could speak about it every episode for no plot-significant reason whatsoever and I would still be angry to see people say she talks about it too much. And before you even bring up the Sokka comparison, people deal with grief in different ways. Sokka repressed a lot of his grief/channeled it into being the “man” of his village because he knew that they would come for Katara next if he gave them the opportunity. he probably would talk about his mother more if a) he didn’t feel massive guilt at not being able to remember what she looked like, and b) he was allowed to be a child processing the loss of his mother instead of having to become a tiny adult when Hakoda had to leave to help fight the fn. And this gets into an intersection with fandom racism, in that white fans (esp white American fans) are incapable of relating to the structural trauma that both Sokka and Katara experience and thus can’t see the ways in which structural trauma colors every single aspect of both of their characters, leading them to flatten nuance and to have some really bad takes. And you know what, speaking of bad fandom takes--

“Shitting on Mai because she gets in the way of my favorite Zuko ship is actually totally okay because she’s ~abusive~”

y’all WHAT.

ok listen, I get not liking maiko. I didn’t like it when I first got into fandom, and later I realized that while bryke cannot write romance to save their lives, fans who like maiko sure can, so I changed my tune. but if you still don’t like it, that’s fine. no skin off my back.

what IS skin off my back is taking instances in which Mai had justified anger toward Zuko, and turning it into “Mai abused Zuko.” do you not realize how ridiculous you sound? this is another thing where I get so angry about it that I don’t know how useful my analysis is actually going to be, but I’ll do my best. numerous people have noted how analysis of Mai and Zuko’s breakup in “The Beach” or Mai being justifiably angry with him at Boiling Rock or her asking for FUCKING FRUIT in “Nightmares and Daydreams” that says that all of these events were her trying to gain control over him is....ahhh...lacking in reading comprehension, but I’d like to go a step further and talk about why y’all are so intent on taking down a girl who doesn’t show emotion in normative ways. obviously, there’s a “Zuko can do no wrong” aspect to Mai criticism (which is super weird considering how his whole arc is about how he can do lots of wrong and he has to atone for the wrong that he’s done--but that’s a separate post.) But I also see slandering Mai for not expressing her emotions normatively and not putting up with Zuko’s shit and slandering Katara for “talking about her mother too often” as two sides of the same coin. In both cases, a female character expresses emotions that make you, the viewer, uncomfortable, and so instead of attempting to understand where those emotions may have come from and why they might be manifesting the way they are, y’all just throw the whole character away. this is another instance of people in the fandom being fundamentally disinterested in engaging with the female characters of atla in a real way, except instead of shallowly “stanning” Mai, y’all hate her. so we get to this point where female characters are flattened into one of two things: perfect queens who can do no wrong, or bitches. and that’s not who they are. that’s not who anyone is. but while we as a fandom are pretty good at understanding b1 Zuko’s actions as layered and multifaceted even though he’s essentially an asshole then, few are willing to lend the same grace to any female character, least of all Mai.

and what’s funny is sometimes this trope will intersect with “I conveniently ship this female character whose canon love interest is one of the members of my favorite non-canon ship with another female character! gay rights!”, so you’ll have someone actively calling Mai toxic/problematic/abusive, and at the same time ship her with Ty Lee? make it make sense! but then again, maybe that’s happening because y’all are fundamentally disinterested in Ty Lee as a character too.

“I love Ty Lee so much that I’m going to treat her like an infantilized hypersexual airhead!”

there are so many things happening in y’alls characterization of Ty Lee that I struggled to synthesize it into one quippy section header. on one hand, you have the hypersexualization, and on the other hand, you have the infantilization, which just makes the hypersexualization that much worse.

(of course, sexualizing or hypersexualizing ANY atla character is really not the move, considering that these are child characters in a children’s show, but then again, that’s a separate post.)

now, I understand how, from a very, very surface reading of the text, you could come to the conclusion that Ty Lee is an uncomplicated bimbo. if you grew up on Western media the way I did, you’ll know that Ty Lee has a lot of the character traits we associate with bimbos: the form-fitting pink crop top, the general conventional attractiveness, the ditzy dialogue. but if you think about it for more than three seconds, you’ll understand that Ty Lee has spent her whole life walking a tightrope, trying to please Azula and the rest of the royal family while also staying true to herself. Ty Lee and Azula’s relationship is a really complex and interesting topic that I don’t really have time to explore at the moment given how long this post is, but I’d argue that Ty Lee’s constant, vocal adulation is at least partially a product of learning to survive at court at an early age. Like Mai, she has been forced to regulate her emotions as a member of fn nobility, but unlike Mai, she also has six sisters who look exactly like her, so she has a motivation to be more peppy and more affectionate to stand out.

fandom does not do the work to understand Ty Lee. as is a theme with this post, fandom is actively disinterested in investigating female characters beyond a very surface level reading of them. Thus, fandom takes Ty Lee’s surface level qualities--her love of the color pink, her revealing standard outfit, and the fact that once she found a boy attractive and also once a lot of boys found her attractive--and they stretch this into “Ty Lee is basically Karen Smith from Mean Girls.” thus, Ty Lee is painted as a bimbo, or more specifically, as not smart, uncritically adoring of Azula (did y’all forget all the non-zukka bits of Boiling Rock?), and attractive to the point of hypersexualization. I saw somebody make a post that was like “I wish mailee was more popular but I’m also glad it isn’t because otherwise people would write it as Mai having to put up with her dumb gf” and honestly I have to agree!! this is one instance in which I’m glad that fandom doesn’t discuss one of my favorite characters that often because I hate the fanon interpretation of Ty Lee, I think it’s rooted in misogyny (particularly misogyny against East Asian women, which often takes the form of fetishizing them and viewing them only through a Western white male gaze)

(side note: here at army-of-mai-lovers, we stan bimbos. bimbos are fucking awesome. I personally don’t read Ty Lee as a bimbo, but if that’s you, that’s fucking awesome. keep doing what you’re doing, queen <3 or king or monarch, it’s 2021, anyone can be a bimbo, bitches <3)

“Toph can and will destroy everyone here with her bare hands because she’s a meathead who likes to murder people and that’s it!”

Toph is, and always has been, one of my favorite ATLA characters. My very first fic in fandom was about her, and she appears prominently in a lot of my other work as well. One thing that I am always struck by with Toph is how big a heart she has. She’s independent, yes, snarky, yes, but she cares about people--even the family that forced her to make herself smaller because they didn’t believe that their blind daughter could be powerful and strong. Her storyline is powerful and emotionally resonant, her bending is cool precisely because it’s based in a “wait and listen” approach instead of just smashing things indiscriminately, she’s great disabled rep, and overall one of the best characters in the show.

And in fandom, she gets flattened into “snarky murder child.”

So where does this come from? Well, as we all know, Toph was originally conceived of as a male character, and retained a lot of androgyny (or as the kids call it, Gender) when she was rewritten as a female character. There are a lot of cultural ideas about androgynous/butch women being violent, and people in fandom seem to connect that larger cultural narrative with some of Toph’s more violent moments in the show to create the meathead murder child trope, erasing her canon emotionality, softness, heart, and femininity in the process.

This is not to say that you shouldn’t write or characterize Toph as being violent or snarky at all ever, because yeah, Toph definitely did do Earth Rumbles a lot before joining the gaang, and yeah, Toph is definitely a sarcastic person who makes fun of her friends a lot. What I am saying is that people take these traits, sans the emotional logic, marry them to their conception of androgynous/butch women as violent/unemotional/uncaring, and thus create a caricature of Toph that is not at all up to snuff. When I see Toph as a side character in a fic (because yeah, Toph never gets to be a main character, because why would a fandom obsessed with one male character in particular ever make Toph a protagonist in her own right?) she’s making fun of people, killing people, pranking people, etc, etc. She’s never talking to people about her emotions, or palling around with her found family, or showing that she cares about her friends. Everything about her relationship with her parents, her disability, her relationship to Gender, and her love of her friends is shoved aside to focus on a version of Toph that is mean and uncaring because people have gotten it into their heads that androgynous/butch women are mean and uncaring.

again, we see a female character who does not emote normatively or in a way that makes you, the viewer, comfortable, and so you warp her character until she’s completely unrecognizable and flat. and for what?

Azula

no, I didn’t come up with a snappy name for this section, mainly because fanon interpretations of Azula and my own feelings toward the character are...complicated. I know there were some people who wanted me to write about Azula and the intersection of misogyny and ableism in fanon interpretations of her character, but I don’t think I can deliver on that because I personally am in a period of transition with how I see Azula. that is to say, while I still like her and believe that she can be redeemed, there is a lot of merit to disliking her. the whole point of this post is that the female characters of ATLA are complex people whom the fandom flattens into stereotypes that don’t hold up to scrutiny, or dislike for reasons that don’t make sense. Azula, however, is a different case. the rise of Azula defenders and Azula stans has led to this sentiment that Azula is a 14 y/o abuse victim who shouldn’t be held accountable for her actions. it seems to me that people are reacting to a long, horrible legacy of male ATLA fans armchair diagnosing Azula with various personality disorders (and suggesting that people with those personality disorders are inherently monstrous and unlovable which ahhhh....yikes) and then saying that those personality disorders make her unlovable, which is quite obviously bad. and hey, I get loving a character that everyone else hates and maybe getting so swept up in that love that you forget that your fave is complicated and has made some unsavory choices. it sucks that fanon takes these well-written, complex villains/antiheroes and turns them into monsters with no critical thought whatsoever. but the attitude among Azula stans that her redemption shouldn’t be hard, that her being a child excuses all of the bad things that she’s done, that she is owed redemption....all of that rubs me the wrong way. I might make another post about this in the future that discusses this in more depth, but as it stands now: while I understand that there is a legacy of misogynistic, ableist, unnuanced takes on Azula, the backlash to that does not take into account the people she hurt or the fact that in ATLA she does not make the choice to pursue redemption. and yes, Zuko had help in making that choice that Azula didn’t, and yes, Azula is a victim of abuse, but in a show about children who have gone through untold horrors and still work to better the lives of the people around them, that is not enough for me to uncritically stan her.

Conclusion

misogyny in this fandom runs rampant. while there are some tropes of fandom misogyny that are well-documented and have been debunked numerous times, there are other, subtler forms of misogyny that as far as I know have gone completely unchecked.

what I find so interesting about misogyny in atla fandom is that it’s clear that it’s perpetrated by people who are aware of fandom misogyny who are actively trying not to be misogynistic. when I first joined atla fandom last summer, memes about how zukka fandom was better than every other fandom because they didn’t hate the female characters who got in the way of their gay ship were extremely prevalent, and there was this sense that *this* fandom was going to model respectful, fun, feminist online fandom. not all of the topes I’ve outlined are exclusive to or even largely utilized in zukka fandom, but a lot of them are. I’ve been in and out of fandom since I was eleven years old, and most of the fandom spaces I’ve been in have been majority-female, and all of them have been incredibly misogynistic. and I always want to know why. why, in these communities created in large part by women, in large part for women, does misogyny run wild? what I realize now is that there’s never going to be a one-size fits all answer to that question. what’s true for 1D fandom on Wattpad in 2012 is absolutely not true for atla fandom on tumblr in 2021. the answers that I’ve cobbled together for previous fandoms don’t work here.

so, why is atla fandom like this? why did the dream of a feminist fandom almost entirely focused on the romantic relationship between two male characters fall apart? honestly, I think the notion that zukka fandom ever was this way was horrifically ignorant to begin with. from my very first moment in the fandom, I was seeing racism, widespread sexualization of minors, and yes, misogyny. these aspects of the fandom weren’t talked about as much as the crocverse or other, much more fun aspects. further, atla (specifically zukka) fandom misogyny often doesn’t look like the fandom misogyny we’ve become familiar with from like, Sherlock fandom or what have you. for the most part, people don’t actively hate Suki, they just “stan” without actually caring about her. they hate Mai because they believe in treating male victims of abuse equally. they’re not characterizing Toph poorly, they’re writing her as a “strong woman.” in short, people are misogynistic, and then invoke a shallow, incomplete interpretation of feminist theory to shield themselves from accusations of misogyny. it’s not unlike the way some people will invoke a shallow, incomplete interpretation of critical race theory to shield themselves from accusations of racism, or how they’ll talk about “freedom of speech” and “the suppression of women’s sexuality” to justify sexualizing minors. the performance of feminism and antiracism is what’s important, not the actual practice.

if you’ve made it this far, first off, hi, thanks so much for reading, I know this was a lot. second, I would seriously encourage you to be aware of these fandom tropes and to call them out when you see them. elevate the voices of fans who do the work of bringing the female characters of atla to life. invest in the wlw ships in this fandom. drop a kudos and a comment on a rangshi fic (please, drop a kudos and a comment on a rangshi fic). read some yuetara. let’s all be honest about where we are now, and try to do better in the future. I believe in us.

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meeko-mar · 4 years ago

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Can I just compare Bakudeku to Korrasami for just a moment

Not as in, their relationship, but in terms of fandom experience, perception and how it became Canon.

So, some years ago, LOK was on it's 4th and final season. So of course, shipping discourse was high. Who would Korra end up with? Would she end up single, be back with Mako?

Or....there was a big calling for the couple Korrasami, that is, Korra and her female friend Asami, to get together.

Now, up until the point of the finale, (and grant that I haven't watched in a while so I'm speaking in an overall sense and recalling my experience) Asami and Korra had been teaming up more and more. Korra had been really, badly, injured in the last season, leading to her isolating herself in the SWT for about 2 or 3 years to heal with Katara, and upon heading back to Empire City, she takes an abrupt turn to spend more time isolated and on a sort of spirit journey in the wild because she didn't feel ready to face her destiny and her friends and was suffering from PTSD. She later returns to EC, and to Asami, and they are close together for the season.

This all caught the attention of the Korrasami shippers who had, at the time, kind of only been casually shipping them because, hey, wouldn't it be nice? and they were slowly and steadily getting more crumbs, and the ship gathered momentum as the seasons progressed.

But lo and behold, everyone else was saying such things as:

"they're a female/female ship, it will never happen, even if you want it to" (even shippers of Korrasami were resigned to this because the precedent in youth animation in western cartoons at the time, was of course, not inclusive of same sex couplings).

We SAW the subtle development between the two and DARED to hope and dream that it might one day become canon, even though we thought it unlikely because of the trend towards heteronormativity. We saw their interactions and toiled over if they were trying to hint at something more between them.

"They're just friends. You're reading into it"

Because the "just friends" behavior of Korrasami in later seasons were:

-Asami being deeply supportive of Korra when she was injured (and for a time, disabled) Like, literally, getting on a knee, putting her hand into Korra's and saying "I'm here for you, for ANYTHING you need" kind of supportive, even offering to COME to the SWT with her. (Korra sacrificed her desire to have Asami close because she didn't want Asami to drop her duties as basically a CEO to tend to her)

-Korra receiving letters from all of her friends during her healing period, but ONLY responding, in a very beautiful letter, to Asami's.

-Korra honestly apologizing for being gone so long without writing more than one letter or sharing more of what was going on or where she went

-Asami complimenting Korra's new hair and Korra BLUSHING and looking SO charmed(and returning the compliment of how amazing Asami always looks) --there is no hetero explanation for this.

-being battle partners and constantly having each other's backs

-Asami protecting Korra from pursuing enemies while she's in the Spirit World(leaving her physical body vulnerable)

-other characters in their circles being literally like "What's going on with you two??"

-Culminating in the final episode after the final battle with Asami breaking down, confessing that she wouldn't know what she had done if she had lost Korra in that final battle(she'd even lost her father the same day) AND THEN Korra comforting her and suggesting that they, the two of them, alone, take a trip together, to get away from it all for a bit.

-It ends, when They literally walk into the spirit world portal holding hands and staring lovingly into each other's eyes as the camera pans from them into the spirit portal

Which, LET ME TELL YOU, watching this when it first premiered, for the first time, WAS AN ALMOST TRANSCENDENT EXPERIENCE. It was a soft scene, emotional, beautifully animated, and the MUSIC just hit you right in the heart. Like, they didn't even kiss to really hammer it in that THEY ARE IN LOVE, however, it was an EMOTIONAL PAYOFF and there was NO arguing that they were not a couple. Creators soon after confirmed, yes, they are both bisexual women, and they are in love.

And so, you could definitely say that Korrasami could have been interpreted as just "Very Good Friends" behavior, of "Gals being Pals", and many people DID argue that, and would later claim that there wasn't "enough build-up to the relationship". And part of the atmosphere in media back then(esp. Nickelodeon at the time) they really couldn't be blatant about it up until that ending. It was even a thing that Nickelodeon had been kind of shooting them in the foot for a while with switching around air times, and eventually taking it off air and putting it only available to view ON THEIR WEBSITE. There was a lot of fuckery with the studio at the time, and It wouldn't have been far off to think that they had issue with the idea of this series ending with two girls together romantically.

It just kind of makes me think of people telling BKDK, not only "They're m/m, it'll never happen in shonen manga" but ALSO anything from "they hate eachother" to "They are toxic because Bakugou bullied him(blatant disregard for any current development of Bakugou's character) and so it can never ever happen" to "Ok sure they're becoming friends again, but that doesn't mean they love each other or will by the end of the story"

When arguably, Korrasami was basically given the same dismissal.

And my dudes, it's only gonna get more intense from here.

Like, Bakugou and Izuku are friends now(again). There's no denying that. They would literally die for one another. Their relationship, and the emotions between the two of them in the coming arcs will only be compounded, with how the last arc left off and how Izuku SUDDENLY left and how Bakugou has so many unresolved feelings, and how, like Korra being the Avatar and having to save the world multiple times over(and the PTSD she got from it), Izuku is carrying a heavy burden that Bakugou is determine to help him see it through to the end without LOSING Izuku in the process. Their stories are so closely tied together and they are SET to return to each other, and it CANNOT end WITHOUT them being together, in some capacity, even if it is just platonic.

So...I wouldn't write BKDK off just yet. We're at the same spot right now that Korrasami shippers were when they were starting to seriously think that there was something canon about Korrasami.

So, Am I saying that I for sure, 100% believe that BKDK will become romantically canon? Not really; the hurdle of it being a Shonen-oriented manga being actively marketed for boys, is admittedly a huge hurdle to overcome, and I, as an American, cannot begin to understand all of the cultural barriers, or implications breaking any of those barriers would have to a Japanese audience or for Horikoshi/his career as a manga-ka.

I still don't know what Horikoshi is thinking when it comes to BKDK, he's obviously very private and all we can do is speculate on what he feels about it; there's still a possibility, however small, that he may actually be the biggest BKDK of us all, and "telling the story he wants to tell" may yet include BKDK becoming canon(that quote may also have nothing whatsoever to do with any romance, but we don't know)...But, much like I was at the point in the Korrasami tale, I'm still painfully aware of the precedent that remains in the way.

Like the Korrasami tale, though, I suppose there is that possibility that we will see something completely amazing and groundbreaking, and I will once again have that transcendent experience where an unlikely ship suddenly becomes reality. At this state in the Korrasami tale, I had NO IDEA that we were shipping the real, canon deal, and it honestly surprised me, being that I usually attach myself to something that never becomes canon, lol(*cough*Zutara).

We're in the thick of it now, we just gotta wait it out and see.

#Korrasami #Bakudeku #antis dni #bkdk #a small essay #bit of a ramble #hope this makes sense #Korrasami crawled so she-ra could run and so voltron could fall face first lmao #all speculative #like do u understand #we had NO IDEA #We had no idea that it would actually become canon we were just like HEY THIS IS ADORABLE AND THEY ARE SO CUTE TOGETHER #and they're battle gfs #there was the added spiciness that these girls were BOTH on opposite sides of a love triangle with mako #so it started out as a J O K E like Korra forget mako and date asami shes so much better #YOU BOTH DESERVE BETTER THAN MAKO #and they DID

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hayleysayshay · 4 years ago

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with regards to discourse and drama and stuff, when i posted my post about legend of korra, and headcanoning korrasami as lesbians, i initially didn’t tag it as korrasami purposefully because i didn’t want to provoke any large backlash. later, i tagged it korrasami because i was like fuck it, I would like a discussion about it, even if my random post by a fairly small blog doesn’t actually do anything. think i’ve already been cancelled on tumblr by a few blogs for a post that was meant to be a joke, so it honestly feels like anyone’s at risk just for posting the wrong thing, and I just want to open some healthier discussion because i don’t think hating on some random user for joking about korrasami being lesbians or talking about who maybe makorra is comp het and telling them doing bi erasure over canon that is unchanged by this joke or headcanon... damn

i want to make it clear what i am most exhausted by is poeple assuming the absolute worst of people.

like, hell, I know I’m opinionated about shit, but I really try and not take my opinions on fandom too seriously, it’s not real. I make sure I try and separate myself from it all. It’s hard, and I think I might come off flippant in response sometimes, but I’d rather flippant than other aspects sometimes. I think people are so attached to characters and ships and shows in a way that’s unhealthy. These aren’t real people. They are not autonomous. They cannot actually impact your life materially--- how much they affect you is up to you.

I love fandom. Fandom is also meant to be fun.

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avatar-state-kate · 4 years ago

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korra

Apologies in advance for the long post, I am incapable of giving a concise answer

Favourite thing/ least favourite thing: I love Korea’s personality, headstrong, a little arrogant, and impatient, but it being the exact opposite of myself also annoys me so much 😅. Obviously she learns patience and takes time to reflect as the series goes on, but in the earlier seasons when Korra would inadvertently aggravate situations and run into traps I was like, please pause for one second- but it was also what makes her and the show great and exciting.

Favourite line: “I’m the Avatar, you gotta deal with it”

This line just works on every level, as an introduction to Korra and the series, as well as foreshadowing the issues fans of atla would have with the show- that Korra isn’t Aang. But it’s like Korra says, you gotta deal with it 🤷🏻‍♀️

brOTP: Mako/Korra Mako going with Korra to see Zaheer and his speech at Varricks wedding, I just love how supportive they are of each other; it will be brought up more in the headcannon slot but if they had more time to goof off in series you know the way there energies feed off of each other they would be so competitive and go so hard

OTP: Korrasami 🥰 I’ll touch on it more in the nOTP section, (because I wrote this out of order and went off), but Asami is able to meet Korra halfway, not feeding her insecurities while also not needing Korra to be at a place where she is completely past them. Asami perfectly meets Korea’s emotional need to feel understood and supported as herself which makes them a natural fit. Also Korra really opens up Asami’s world from the sheltered rich kid who otherwise would fall back into the protected role (Masami ahem)

nOTP: Makorra. I always hated this ship because they are just so romantically incompatible!

Mako needs to help (doesn’t need someone who needs his help but at least wants it). But Korra doesn’t want help, she wants support. This might seem like the same thing but really helping is addressing the material situation and supporting the emotional. So Mako is trying to give Korra advice, first what he thinks then later what he thinks she wants, which for Korra comes off pretty cold and like he doesn’t care, but for Mako Korra blatantly ignoring his advice makes him feel useless. In short they bring out each other’s insecurities and maybe they could work, but they’re personalities don’t exactly allow them to meet each other halfway Korra and Mako’s personal insecurities and emotional needs just feed into eachother in the worst way. (Compare to Asami who draws out from Korra discussion about how she’s feeling, which Mako would not be able to have, and Wu who appreciates Mako’s advice and role as a protector)

Random headcanon: We all know Korra can go completely feral, and that she can bring out Mako’s feral side, so together things always escalate to there most competitive and ridiculous degree- this is a long way of saying that if the Krew watched fight club on movie night, beginning of act 2 when they establish fight club Korra and Mako are throwing hands in the living room

Unpopular opinion: Shouldn’t be controversial but she’s a good avatar, you’re all just mean. Also I think people misunderstand her compassion arc, she was always compassionate but she grew up sheltered. Hence “I wouldn’t call that nothing” in season 1- everything Korra went through helped her to see how the world really could be/made her compassion more nuanced, but it didn’t give her compassion. So both sides have a point but I think it’s more a misunderstanding

Song I associate with them: blame project voicebend but heavy metal screemo 🙈 her screaming and throwing hands with system of a down in the background makes sense to me.

Favourite picture of them: I cannot find a picture that includes the boots! But it’s because of the boots that this fit is my fav. It just encapsulates her character so well, peak design. It’s also just so funny

#did i go too hard #no because i love talking about lok #but its going to take me all day to answer these at this rate 😂#thank you nicole for giving me an excuse to go off 😘#ask me #not kate #korra #lok #legend of korra

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counterspelling · 4 years ago

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Luz Noceda, Haruka Tenoh, Winry Rockbell

character: hate them | don’t really care | like them | LOVE them | THEY ARE MY PRECIOUS

ship with: Amity!!! Oh my god. I just. Oh my god!!! I still can't believe that 6 years ago we couldn't see Korra and Asami kiss and like 4 years ago they wouldn't let Hirsch so much as put a nameless lgbt couple in 5 seconds of an episode, and now we get onscreen, canon wlw witches.... we really won... My heart was in my throat the entire episode like, HOPING, hoping so much that Luz was who Amity wanted to ask to grom, that this wasn't going to be some elaborate fakeout, that yes, Luz blushed at BOTH twins and had made several other ambiguous comments because she was actually bi. That Amity blushed and got nervous because she had an indisputable crush. And they really did it!!!!!

friendship them with: Every single relationship she has is precious because SHE is precious. Willow and Gus and being such good friends and always backing each other up, her speedrun enemies to friends (to lovers!! please!!) with Amity, Eda mentoring her, her adorable friendship with King, I LOVE IT ALL. This show is just so good, every aspect of it, I can't wait for s2

general opinions: I fell for her immediately, she's exactly my character type. She's so exuberant and curious and determined and positive, she's such a force for good, I love her!!!

Haruka:

character: hate them | don’t really care | like them | LOVE them | THEY ARE MY PRECIOUS

ship with: Michiru! Honestly their dynamic is so great, and they're the original wlw couple. Naoko giving us the canon magical girl gays since 1992, we love to see it

friendship them with: Usa! Mina! Hotaru! The manga will always be my preferred canon, but my one criticism is that bc they were pushing Naoko to produce content so fast that so many character moments are just so short, or implied, and we don't have as much time for depth, and I want SO MUCH MORE of all of their relationships. I will never understand her kissing Usa but it's such a gorgeous panel, and she and the outers are all so dedicated to protecting Usa no matter what, seeing Mina and Haruka sort of parallel each other in their utter devotion to Usa and Mina's sometimes resentment of the outers moving into the way they all love and work together, it's so good. The way they all raise Hotaru together... I'm so excited for Eternal, pleaaase give us an international release date

general opinions: I cannot pick a favorite outer. I cannot. I am biased toward the inners but I love every single senshi SO MUCH, they all live so very deeply in my heart. But Haruka... her strength, her confidence, she's the closest outer to Usagi, when she's first introduced she's so determined to do the right thing, seeing their relationships grow and evolve and seeing them come back in the dream arc, their unwavering devotion to their princess from the time of the silver millennium when all they could do was watch their light in the dark from afar.... I love her

Winry:

character: hate them | don’t really care | like them | LOVE them | THEY ARE MY PRECIOUS

ship with: Ed! They're so cute! What a good childhood friends to lovers ship!!! They don't let each other get away with shit but always support each other too

friendship them with: Al! Riza! The way the two main ladies inspired each other!!!

general opinions: Winry is truly so strong. She was so young when she lost her parents, and seeing her move past the grief, how she's always trying to be better, not just as a mechanic but as a person... I need to reread

#thanks anon!!#Anonymous #organasoloskywalker asks

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fangirlfromdownunder · 5 years ago

Text

Rules

Welcome to the new rules! Requests are normally always open unless I am in a period of stress. While requests are open, I cannot tell when I will respond to each as I do have a lot going on with my life outside of this, please be understanding.

Feel free to check back in with these rules as they will be updated as I become interested in shows and fall out of fandoms due to multiple reasons.

Request Types

1. Relationship Headcanons - self-insert

2. Shipping Headcanons - headcanons for ships

3. Reaction/Gif Headcanons

4. Matchups - Please include star sign, gender, sexuality, key parts of your personality, interests/hobbies, appearance, and which fandom you’d like.

5. AU - share your AU ideas and I’ll write my ideas

6. Fanfic/ficlet - All requests for fanfics, ficlets, etc. will be covered on my Ao3, feel free to request them here and I will answer with the link once I finish it.

Ao3: https://archiveofourown.org/users/FangirlFromDownunder/profile

Fandoms

- Gurren Largan (Anime)

- Voltron Legendary Defenders

- Magi (Anime)

- Free! Iwatobi Swim Club (Anime to season 2)

- Durarara!

- The Fate Seris

- Fullmetal Alchemist (03, and Brotherhood)

- Soul Eater

- Persona 4 and 5

- Stardew Valley

- Violet Evergarden

- Fire Emblem Awakening

- Fire Emblem Heroes

- The Legend of Zelda

- Ouran High School Host Club

- Star Wars

- Kingdom Hearts

- Avatar the Last Air Bender/Legend of Korra

Rules

1. Please be respectful of all requests and questions answered on this post. Whether it be in relation to shipping or peoples opinions on characters, hate will not be tolerated. I do encourage discussion and debate, so long as you are respectful.

2. I reserve the right to decline a request. If something doesn’t strike me with inspiration or I don’t enjoy writing the character I may decline the request, and the request doesn’t follow the rules I will decline it.

3. Please do not send requests involving suicide, self-harm, or excessive gore.

4. Please keep requests to one idea per ask, you can send as many requests as you like this just helps me keep track of each idea.

5. Please keep character requests to 5 characters or less.

6. I do not do NSFW on tumblr, but if interested I could do the request on Ao3 instead depending on the request. I will, however, answer NSFW asks and discussion things.

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ourimpavidheroine · 5 years ago

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Yeah, so I read the comic. Spoilers below, consider yourself warned.

I think the artwork is great, and thank fuck they got a decent colorist. The first series was hideously colored with some sort of an overall mustard tone, I still can’t get over it. In this one the drawings are crisp and animated, and the color is rich and has more than three tones to it. Michelle Wong has a knack for nailing facial expressions which works so well in this kind of story. Huge thumbs up from me.

(Although I still hate that Mako went back to his teenage hair. I do not at all get this. AT ALL. Why the hell would he want to do that? This says a LOT to me about how Bryke sees the obviously temporary maturity they gave him in Book 4 since I sincerely doubt the return to his teenage hair was a choice made by either of the comic artists.)

The writing, though? A huge thumbs down from me.

The first Korra comic had Asami In Danger ™ as a means of moving the plot forward and now the second one has it as well. Sure, we’ve got Mako and Bolin thrown into the mix to up the stakes a little. But at its heart? That’s just lazy writing. And it’s very, very male writing as well. I loathe the damsel in distress trope precisely because 99.9% of the time isn’t written well. (This is definitely not one of the .01% of the times it is right.) Ho-hum, Asami has been brainwashed to hate Korra. I mean...there’s no real drama there. It’s not really her! The drama the two of them were having over even having Kuvira along was more interesting than that. There are no stakes with the brainwashing. We know that it’s going to get fixed; the Krew (and Wu) won’t stay brainwashed forever.

Listen, Korra is the fucking Avatar. She is the most powerful person in that Universe, and her job is to bring stability and balance. Not to chase around her girlfriend who keeps getting kidnapped. TWICE.

At least we didn’t have to deal with straight white cis dudes writing about systemic homophobia in this one. (Or at least not so far. They aren’t done yet.)

Wu singing along to peeing actually made me laugh. That is very teenage Wu. (Also? His Jungle Outfit was EVERYTHING.) I did like the swamp vision of Hou-Ting and it actually showed that despite the accusation she was making that he was giving up the crown because he didn’t care/was a coward that it wasn’t the case. Which obviously is more in line with how I see the character. Although Toph calling him Spindleshanks pisses me off because now I can never have Lin do it in my fanfic. DAMMIT. Also? Pabu on his shoulder was frankly adorable.

Toph was great, as she usually is. Although you know what I loved the most about her in this volume? The way she’s cradling an injured Opal at the end. That’s the first gentle thing I think we’ve EVER seen Toph do, on the show or otherwise. I thought it was beautiful.

I do like that Korra is still trying to work forward in how to be the Avatar, even when the things she does as an Avatar aren’t always approved of my her nearest and dearest. That’s one thing I always did think Bryke got right for her; it’s been a struggle for her to find the balance between having her own life and being the Avatar and I personally think it’s one she will always have, even if age and experience ease it for her as she gets older. I think all Avatars do.

I did like that even when brainwashed Mako took charge. That’s just what he does; even being brainwashed doesn’t change it.

Oh lord, and I guess I have to address Kuvira. So look. Here’s the thing. Bryke clearly wants to redeem her. Which...I know there are a lot of Kuvirastans out there that are happy about it. That’s not a slam on my part; I am not interested in it, but that’s why I write my fanfic the way I do. Fans like what they like, and redeeming her is a big one for a lot of people. I’ve got no problem with redemption stories, if they are done well. (Zuko’s redemption arc remains one of the best I have ever seen.)

But in order to redeem Kuvira they have to retcon her. They have quite literally no other choice in order to redeem her. And I loathe that regardless of what story it is. I mean, just walking her back by saying that Guan was doing experiments without her approval? Come on.

The thing is this: canonically speaking, Kuvira commissioned a weapon of mass destruction that she had every intention of using, and which she did use. She killed we don’t know how many people (I mean, the idea that a city as big as that one had a 100% clearance rate is just silly, there were plenty of people who didn’t evacuate for various reasons, never mind the sailors on that ship she took out), left who knows how many homeless in Republic City, caused who knows how much yuan worth of damage. She took out half a fucking foreign city, which she attacked without any provocation. You cannot erase that by saying that she didn’t approve human experimentation and had a rough childhood. You just can’t.

That’s not even getting into her attacking Zaofu as well as conscripting soldiers from all over the Earth Kingdom and coercing provincial governors into allowing her to take control. I mean, she was a security guard who became a fascist dictator in the space of three years. You cannot forget that, no matter how hard you retcon her. If you do forget it it’s because you wanted her to have never done those things in the first place, you know? But she did do them. It’s canon.

Bryke’s whole stated approach - and it is stated, Mike DiMartino has done interviews - of Kuvira just wants to do good but can’t understand why Asami won’t forgive her for killing her father and never mind all of those other people is just painful to me.

Now look. The idea that Korra recognizes that as the Avatar she has to put aside her personal feelings and deal with Kuvira as a means to an end for a political situation she cannot handle on her own is not one I have a problem with. AT ALL. And having her and Asami clash over that? GOOD STUFF. In fact, I hope like hell some of the better fanfic writers out there are jumping on that, because that’s something that I firmly believe they’d have to deal with as long as they have a relationship with each other. Asami isn’t dating the Avatar, after all; she’s dating Korra. But Korra IS the Avatar, and that’s something the two of them will have to come to terms with, which they clearly have not. So I am onboard with this, absolutely. Yes!

But Korra does not have to retcon Kuvira. She does not have to understand nor forgive her. She does not need to be her BFF. As the Avatar, what she should be doing is using Kuvira to help bring about the balance that is her entire job and then putting her back where she found her, because the Avatar’s job is not to dispense justice or override what has been decided in a court of law. If Kuvira is going to be pardoned from her jail sentence forever then that’s for Zhu Li to decide as the new president of Republic City, not Korra.

(I have a sinking suspicion Bryke is going to have Zhu Li - who was the only person actually working directly under Kuvira to have the courage to not only defy her but to call her out on being the monster she was and get sentenced to death for it - pardon her. UGH. LAZY WRITING.)

I am sorry that Kuvira’s parents were shitheads. My own mother punched me in the face and broke both my nose and glasses when I was cast as Mercutio in my high school rendition of Romeo and Juliet because...well, I guess because she didn’t like that I would be playing a guy and not Juliet? (I dunno, it was 35 years ago and I’m still not sure but I’ve got a crooked nose to remember it by.) She was not exactly winning any prizes in the mothering department, believe me. Nevertheless I am still responsible for the decisions I have made as an adult. Having a shitty childhood was not my fault, but it certainly is my problem if I hurt others because of it. Kuvira is no different. I have a nagging suspicion that we are being set up to give Kuvira a get out of jail free card for the whole FASCIST MURDERING DICTATOR thing because her parents sucked. And frankly, I think that’s a terrible message for Bryke to be giving to people reading this comic and to be frank I am just bewildered as well as angered by it. I mean...they aren’t, right? They are setting up the whole bad childhood thing in order to prove that no matter how rotten things were for you you are never justified in cruelty (or you know, dictatorships) towards others? Right? Please?

Not to mention I am all for forgiveness but Kuvira didn’t pull a few pranks as a teen. She attacked foreign countries without provocation, commissioned and used a weapon of mass destruction, conscripted armies, set up camps for dissenters, and so on. If you want to redeem her, then have her recognize that she did wrong and willingly GO TO PRISON BECAUSE OF IT. The homeless, grieving and devastated people she left behind deserve that, they really do.

I did like that Su came when Kuvira asked. Her feelings about Kuvira are clearly complicated ones - to say the very least - but she was able to put them aside when her help was needed. That’s the Su Beifong I believe in and write about. She brought her three warrior children along as well. (Although what Opal was doing in Zaofu instead of RC I don’t know, but hey, what’s a plot?)

But if she goes on to forgive Kuvira for straight up attempting to murder her son then I call bullshit all the fuck over that. I’m a mother. NOPE. There are limits. I am telling you, anybody who tries to retcon that doesn’t have children themselves. The end.

My baby Baatar is coming back. Ya’ll know how I feel about him. I have no faith that Bryke will do him right, especially as Bryan once said that he was the character he hated the most. I cringe to think of what they are going to do to him. Blame him for all of Kuvira’s mistakes in order to continue her retcon? Retcon him into being the one actually responsible for her leaving and doing the things she did, making him the puppet master behind the scenes? Would not surprise me at all if it happened. Not at all.

#Not tagging this to avoid wank #long post

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twilightofthe · 5 years ago

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Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ahsoka Tano, annnnnnnd Luke Skywalker

Probs gonna be a long post since I Cannot Shut Up, so here we go!

OBI WAN (see look I told you this was gonna be long)

How I feel about them: HELLO HI YES I LOVE HIM A NORMAL AMOUNT. Okay okay, besides the fact that he is Very Nice To Look At (c’mon, I must, I have EYES), I genuinely love Obi Wan because he wants to be a good person so, so badly, and he’s always ALWAYS trying to be better because he doesn’t believe he already is a good person. His life is a literal living hellhole and he doesn’t crumple under all of that tragedy like literally everyone else does, he takes a moment, puts a cheeky smile back on his face, and gets back up and keeps going. He can be a hypocrite, he tends to look over things he really shouldn’t or gets the wrong idea about things and just shuts off what he doesn’t want to deal with, he’s overconfident and a little snobby and petty and a bit of an asshole, and he makes mistakes because he is human, and I love him for all of those flaws because if he was perfect, I wouldn’t like him as much. He’s funny and reckless and would literally die before letting anything he cared about get hurt, he wants to do everything at once so he can help everyone and he literally gives all of himself to a cause because he cares and y’all, he is the most distinguished disaster I have ever come across and he deserves peace and rest and loved ones who don’t die in his arms or betray him and he’s one of the most brilliant fighters I have ever seen and he just draws you in. You can’t help but want to watch him.

Romantic ships: I will love him and Anakin together past my dying breaths; they’re soulmates. I can also enjoy seeing him with Quinlan or Ventress, and of course Satine.

Non-Romantic OTPs: Anakin again, I just love them and will take them any way I can get. Also Cody, Cody is great. And Ahsoka-- especially post-Order 66 (c’mon Kenobi movie don’t let me down now). And Padmé! Ugh, I’m mad TCW refused to let us see the Obi/Pads friendship the movies promised us they had.

Unpopular Opinion: Two big ones. First, that Anakin is the most important person in his life. I can’t see it any other way, and I know other people would disagree. Second, that he’s a good person and ALSO kinda a jerk. He’s one of the most popular figures in this fandom with the most mercurial fanbase. I’d say a good 85% adore him, but then the 15% who don’t hate him with a burning passion. Seriously, it’s like to these people Palpatine was a better Master to Anakin than he was, jeez-- I’m digressing. Anyway, it’s like in retaliation, the other 85% have put him up on a pedestal as someone who’s done no wrong whatsoever. And here I am in the middle like, I love him to hell and back and always will, he’s legit one of my favorite characters, but he isn’t perfect. Like I said, it’s hard for me to like perfect characters with no flaws. So yea, I guess that’s it.

Something I wish would happen/had happened with them in canon: MORE OBIKIN MOMENTS BECAUSE I’M NEEDY. Ok but in reality, there’s a couple things, most I’m discovering have to do with female characters. I wish he hadn’t faked his death when Ahsoka was there. I get why Anakin had to be there to witness it, otherwise he wouldn’t believe it, but Obes, my dude, there was no reason why you had to (further) traumatize a sixteen year old over this. She really did not need to have you die in her arms, you of all people know how shitty that feels. I also want to know why he didn’t speak up (or if he did and we didn’t see it) at Ahsoka’s trial. Was he being punished for Mandalore? Going off of that, I wish we actually got to see him mourn Satine for more than 0.5 seconds of him looking sad after she died and then it literally never being brought up again (I’m looking at you here, Season 7, give me SOMETHING). I’d also like to see him having some sort of meaningful interaction with Leia that would make her naming her only child after him make more sense (I actually have a really good penpals style idea about this, but I don’t know if I’d be able to write it before the Kenobi show comes out and josses it). Also, I heard that the original Twin Suns episode of Rebels was supposed to have Kanan going to Tatooine with Ezra, and I really would like to see a Kanan/Obi Wan interaction, it just sounds like so much potential for angsty goodness!!! ;_;

AHSOKA

How I feel about them: My brave, brave girl! She was what got me into the prequels in general, if you can believe it (wow, my star wars watching order is just WEIRD), I had to know more about her after seeing literally one glimpse of her in Rebels and then saw the Tumblr fandom explode. She’s enduring and snarky and clever and a total badass and I adore how we got to see her grow from a spunky little kid into a shining, confident young woman who I’d follow anywhere. Anyway, I love her and god did she deserve so much BETTER FROM EVERYTHING. HER LIFE SUCKED TOO AND SHE TOLD LIFE TO FUCK OFF AND KEPT GOING.

Romantic ships: I adore her and Kaeden Larte from the Ahsoka novel and you can pry my headcanon that they’re still together up to the Sequel trilogy out of my cold dead hands. Also Barriss Offee (WHY DO ALL MY STAR WARS SHIPS HAVE A PATTERN? CAN WE NOT BE BETRAYING EACH OTHER FOR FIVE SECONDS PLEASE). Also Riyo Chuchi, that was really cute!!!

Non-Romantic OTP’s: Snips n’ Skyguy all the way!!!! But also argh, I adore Ahsoka and Rex and everything about them and Season 7 is going to KILL ME. I also love seeing Ahsoka and Padmé interact, and I really do like the little bits we see of her and Obi Wan and I want MORE of them >:(

Unpopular Opinion: This is gonna sound weird since I just said that seeing Ahsoka in Rebels was what got me into TCW and the prequels, but I really didn’t like her characterization in Rebels all that much after I went back and saw her in TCW. I know she grew up and was traumatized and matured, but Rebels!Ahsoka just seemed a bit too severe, a bit too peaceful (she’s always been a firebrand), a bit too quiet. Yea she grew, but I feel like the environment she grew up in wouldn’t foster the personality change she got in Rebels. She was a bit of a hot mess in TCW, and the Ahsoka novel kinda showed more of that personality in an older version of her and felt more right than what we got in Rebels.

Something I wish would happen/had happened with them in canon: A GROUP HUG WITH ANAKIN AND OBI WAN IN SEASON 7, PREFERABLY HER PICKING THEM BOTH UP LEGEND OF KORRA STYLE. Ok but really there’s a LOT of things. First, that she never liked Lux Bonteri. I’m sorry, I’m petty. He just reminds me way too much of my IRL friend’s stupidass boyfriend who I Do Not Like and I never got what Ahsoka actually saw in him ;p Second is that I did not like how Ezra saved her in Rebels. It’s a grumpy point for me because I certainly like how she managed to outlive the entire Order that kicked her out, it’s poetic, and if they did have Vader kill her I’d still be grumpy because it would be just another Prequel era woman who got killed off because she wasn’t in the OT while the males all find some way to be alive despite not being in the OT. HOWEVER, you will never convince me that Kanan wasn’t the one who deserved that time-travel fixit. Kanan had a family-- a CHILD, who he left behind. Kanan had a future, and a story point that was just left unfinished and unsatisfying for me and other fans, if what I’ve heard was right. As much as it would annoy me, Ahsoka dying facing Vader makes sense from a narrative point because it would follow the path that Vader destroys everyone he ever loved until he meets Luke. Kanan’s death felt sudden and forced, and the fact that they had the audacity to use his death to be like “oh no Kanan had to die and become a Spirit Wolf solely to tell Ezra he needed to bring AHSOKA back”, come on. Rebels didn’t establish Ahsoka and Kanan having any sort of meaningful relationship, it makes no sense for that to be his final wish, so it just feels a LOT like favoritism on Filoni’s part. So yea, I don’t know what I wanted to save Ahsoka because I did want her alive, but it definitely shouldn’t have been at the expense of Kanan. Meh. Ok, but on a happier note, I really wanna see Anakin’s ghost on Endor reuniting with her again cuz that would be sweet and make me cry. I also wanna see Ahsoka interacting with Obi Wan on Tatooine in the new show because please it would be perfect, she’s already met Leia, now she can meet Luke! Also, if we could actually see her find Ezra, that would be very nice, thank you.

LUKE

How I feel about this character: Luke Skywalker is one of the bravest, most kindest men in the galaxy. He’s not the stereotypical macho hero, he’s goofy and he whines and sulks and he makes dumb jokes and he rushes right into things, but he’s determined as all hell and once he loves you, he’s never letting go. He wants to fix everything! He has so many ideas! He’s so bright and you can’t help but fall in love with his smile and his sparkling eyes and you want all his dreams and plans (because he has so, so many of them) to come true, and he will make them come true, because he is stubborn like both of his parents before him. He worked through the discovery of his beloved father being a monster, and not only did he love him despite that, he did the unthinkable and BROUGHT HIM BACK. LUKE BROUGHT ANAKIN HOME BECAUSE HE LOVED AND BELIEVED IN HIM AND HE WAS STRONG ENOUGH TO DO IT. I just wish he had gotten the happy ending his parents never did (and that he had had for 40 years before it was ripped away whoops I got salt on this haha).

Romantic ships: Complicated. I think he would be really cute with Ezra if they ever actually met; their personalities would mesh nicely and I think they’d make a great team! However, I don’t really ship him with anyone else, and me the ace again is projecting major aro/ace vibes onto him because I can *blows raspberry*

Non-Romantic OTP: BROT3 WITH HAN AND LEIA!!!! FOREVER AND ALWAYS!!!!!!!! Y’all but they literally saved the galaxy together, and Luke and Leia love each other so much they knew there was a connection from the very beginning and always supported each other and the BEST space siblings, argh that forehead kiss was my favorite part of The Last Jedi I cry but I also love the chaotic dumbass duo that is Han and Luke and how they’d legit die for each other and have each others’ backs. And, Luke and R2 will always always make my heart melt because these guys are the best team! And Chewie, cannot forget Chewie, Chewie loves his stupid blonde little brother. Ya know what, I’ll also add in Rey for the pure potentiality of what could have been.

Unpopular Opinion: Well it’s certainly not unpopular to anyone I talk to, but Lucasfilms disagrees with me, so I’m gonna put forth that I don’t care WHAT the explanation is, I could never ever ever see Luke even thinking about murdering his nephew in his sleep, not just a “slip up”, not “only for a second”, no. Yes, people can change in thirty years, and I’ve begrudgingly accepted a lot of his actions in TLJ, but not that one. Luke would NEVER. A more unpopular one I have would be that he’s not as much of a “innocent cinnamon roll” as fandom makes him out to be. We see from the beginning of Episode 4 that Luke has the Skywalker temper and he’s a bit on the rude side, even though to me that seems a little more like issues with a filter that he works on developing throughout the OT. But yeah, people tend to declaw him a bit and forget this is the same sarcastic, snarky guy that can and will happily kick the ass of basically anyone who he can’t talk his way out of trouble with (in this, he is very much Obi Wan’s apprentice).

Something I wish would happen/had happened with them in canon: LET HIM APPEAR TO REY WITH ANAKIN’S FORCE GHOST 2K19!!! PLEASE JJ I BEG YOU YOU LITERALLY NAMED THE MOVIE AFTER THEM. Also, please just let him take an active role in Episode 9. I understand it’s about the new protagonists, but please do not include the Sequel Trilogy in the “Skywalker Saga” if you’re just gonna sideline him the entire time. If he couldn’t have his original happy ending, please let him be happy at the end of all of this.

#i’m proud of myself i could have added a LOT more sequel salt in Luke’s section than i did you’re welcome #i also will go off completely unprompted over the IRL friend’s stupidass boyfriend and almost did #so be very thankful i showed restraint xD #our only ho #snip snap #twin sun

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purposeofmymind · 8 years ago

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Okay. I don’t usually like to get into fandom and shipping drama completely unsolicited, but this has just been bothering me and I feel compelled to write my thoughts out.

What’s with the recent phenomena of anti-shippers who are against “problematic” ships?

And I wanna emphasize recent. I’ll get more into that later.

(Also no read more because I feel like my blog’s text is hard to read. D: This is going to be long.)

More specifically, what’s with these anti-shippers who are against ships where one character is 18 or older while the other is still a “minor” (”minor” is in quotes because the definition is different depending on what country you live in)?

These anti-shippers go so far as to call shippers of these ships “pedophile apologists”. Or even harass the crew (writers, directors, actors, etc.) of the show. Y’all are ridiculous.

Psychology Today defines pedophilia as “the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children ” The National Center for Biotechnology Information backs up this definition, defining it “as an ongoing sexual attraction toward pre-pubertal children.“

What do these two definitions have in common? Prepubescent. If the “minor” of a ship is a 10-year-old, then yeah I can see why you’d have a problem with that. When the “minor” is a 16-year-old, a character who has gone through puberty, who has their adult body already, it is not the same. And y’all are hating on ships where the “minor” is a teenager who has obviously already gone through puberty.

So long as the “minor” in the ship is post-puberty, I really don’t understand the issue here. For people to call the 18-year-old in the ship a pedo and to call shippers apologists is just... really wrong. Like factually wrong.

“But it’s illegal because age of consent!” you say. Yeah but the age of consent varies from country to country. In the United States, it varies state to state. That’s not a good basis to use.

I could maybe understand the “it’s predatory” argument. But that will vary depending on the context of a show’s plot and the dynamic of its characters.

In real life, where the adult would be college or working age and the “minor” would still be in high school, yeah I can see why people would not be okay with that. If in reality, a 20+ adult who’s in college/working shows interest in a 16-year-old high school student, that would bother me a bit too. I would question the adult’s intentions. What do they have in common with a high schooler to want to date them or be romantic with them?

But reality is not fiction. Not every fictional ship with an 18+ year-old is predatory. In fictional shows, where the characters are professional world-class athletes or flying through outer space fighting aliens, can you really compare it to reality? No, you can’t. The dynamics of the characters involved are way different from real life people.

Now to get to the point that compelled me to even type this.

This is a recent thing too.

I got into anime back in 2013. I had watched a few old/classic anime, but the first new/currently-airing anime I watched that year was Free! One of the first ships I shipped in Free! (and a ship I still do to this day) is SeiGou. If you don’t watch the anime, Seijuro is a 3rd year and Gou is a 1st year when they meet. Seijuro very obviously has an adorable crush on her. They don’t end up together or anything, but I think they’d make a cute couple! And Free! being one of my first anime fandoms, I was happy to see so many people ship SeiGou too. There was a lot of lovely fan art of them, it was wonderful. If people disliked SeiGou, it was only because they shipped either character with someone else, no biggie.

Now why am I mentioning SeiGou? Because they have the exact same age difference as a more recent ship that has a lot of antis. People who think this new ship is wrong because one of the characters is 18 and the other is 15. That ship is Otayuri.

If you don’t watch Yuri on Ice, Otabek is 18 and Yurio is 15. The episode they meet takes place in December. Otabek’s birthday is on Halloween in October. He barely turned 18 less than 2 months prior. Yurio’s birthday is March 1st. He’ll be 16 in less than 3 months. If they went to regular high schools like in typical sports anime, Otabek would be a 3rd year and Yurio would be a 1st year.

Hmmm look at that. Exact same age difference/gap as SeiGou. But for some reason, there are anti-Otayuri shippers. There were never anti-SeiGou shippers.

While we don’t know Seijuro’s birthday, we can safely assume he turned 18 at some point in season 1 since he was a third year in high school. Either way, he is for sure 18 when he returns in season 2 as a college student, where he is still very obviously crushing on Gou. Season 2 aired in 2014. There was not a single word about the ship being inappropriate or problematic because Seijuro is an 18+ year-old legal adult and Gou is still a “minor”. I never saw any “anti”-SeiGou shippers because Sei was 18+.

So this is completely a recent thing. Why is that? Two things about this are baffling me.

1) Where did this “anti” thing come from? I’m gonna quickly address this one. When did that become a thing? I think the earliest I remember seeing anything tagged as “anti-(ship)” was when the Legend of Korra was on, I could be wrong though. I’ve never seen it before then though. Before, if you disliked a ship, you ignored it. Simple. You maybe called it your “notp” at the most. You didn’t make posts against it tagging it with “anti-(ship)” as if that will prevent it from coming up in the search when people search for (ship). There are some ships I dislike, and I don’t make negative posts about them. I don’t waste my time on them at all. So first of all, screw this whole “anti” thing. If you don’t like a ship or a show, don’t blog about it at all. And let people who do enjoy the thing enjoy it, without having to see your negative posts when they search for the thing.

2) Where did this sudden “the moment you turn 18 you cannot be shipped with anyone younger” shipping mindset this come from?

Newsflash: You do not automatically become some pedo or child predator the moment you turn 18. It doesn’t work that way.

If an 18-year-old was interested in a pre-pubescent child, yes that would be very concerning.

But an 18-year-old being interested in a 15-year-old who’s in the same school club as them? Not a big deal.

When I turned 18, I was still a senior in high school. I had more in common with my 15/16-year-old sophomore friends than I did with any of my friends who had been in college a year or two.

During my senior year, I probably found a sophomore boy or two in my church youth group to be cute. At midnight on my 18th birthday, those feelings did not change. I still thought those sophomore boys were cute. Why? Because we were in the same age group. Just because I could now legally get a tattoo without my parents’ permission and join the military, any attraction I had towards them did not change, and that did not make me a predator.

To relate this to Otayuri: they have a 2 and a half year age difference. They are still in the same age group. If they were to date, that would not make Otabek a predator.

Also just because people ship something, that doesn’t mean they want the characters to bang right away. Why do antis assume that shipping something means shipping it sexually?

I ship Otayuri. I like the idea of them talking on Skype late into the night and having cute sightseeing dates when they have competitions in the same city . I don’t want them having wild sex. I want them to have a sweet long-distance relationship. I know a lot of people ship them in this same way.

And I’m sure most people who draw or write NSFW art and fics age-up the characters. I know a lot of people have a problem with this “aging up” but I don’t know why. These characters may be in suspended animation in the show, but time goes on. They’ll age eventually. Even if the official show doesn’t show them aging or show an epilogue, the characters are still going to age. Let people age them up. I can understand why it may make some uncomfortable or uneasy, but I don’t see how that hurts anyone.

Now another, more controversial topic that I might as well include while I’m at it because why the hell not

I’m gonna start off saying now: I haven’t really watched Voltron completely yet. I watched the first two episodes and I’m enjoying it so far. However at the moment I’ve only seen a couple episode, so I do not really know the dynamics of the characters completely yet, so I do not really ship anything. (I have reblogged lots of Voltron shipping posts though, but it’s mostly because I saw some fan art that was well-drawn and I wanted to give the artist a like and reblog.)

That said, I really don’t see the problem with Shiro being shipped with Keith or Lance (or Hunk, though I don’t see that ship much so I’ve never seen hate for it either). The age gap isn’t the big of a difference given the context/plot/setting of the show. Let’s say Shrio is 25. Okay. Keith and Lance have been said to be around 16 or 17, I believe?

I’m gonna repeat what I said above. In real life, a relationship between a 25-year-old and a 16-year-old would make me a little uncomfy. Why? Again, because they have little - if anything - in common. Why would a 25-year-old adult who is either in college or the work force want to date someone who is still in high school? I would question the older person’s intentions. And if that relationship did happen, I would probably be a little weary of it and find it inappropriate. It’s not so much the age gap as it is the timing, because in 2-3 years, these two people could date and most others wouldn’t care.

But guess what? FICTION AND REALITY ARE DIFFERENT. Voltron is fiction. It is not real life.

Again I haven’t watched much of the show yet, but I’m seeing that the basic gist of the plot is that they’re defending outer space and have to defeat the bad aliens, right? Shiro and Keith/or/Lance have a much different dynamic than a real-life 20-something/high schooler would. They’re IN SPACE FIGHTING ALIENS TOGETHER for crying out loud. It’s not real life. Shiro is not a college student. Keith and Lance are not high school students. They’re on equal grounds as defenders of space. It seems like their lives are at stake quite often and they’ve been through a lot. I think it’s safe to say that they have enough in common and have gone through important life-changing moments and character development together that a relationship between Shiro and Keith/or/Lance, despite the age gap, would be okay and healthy.

Even if Shrio is their “leader,” I don’t think it’s much of a power dynamic either. Nothing to be concerned about at least. Especially since there’s so few characters and they seem to go through a lot of things together. (Also Shiro seems like a nice guy who would have no ill-intentions in a relationship.)

One thing about anti-shippers that always bother me is they say that if you ship this “problematic” ship, you would support something similar in real life. Hence the apologists arguments. Um. No? No, that’s not at all the case.

Again I must emphasize that fiction is not reality. Most people have a healthy enough mindset to separate the two.

I love the Hunger Games. Does that mean I condone the murder of children in real life? Of course not. It’s just a book/movie for entertainment purposes. I would be horrified if it was a real-life occurrence (praying that it doesn’t actually become real since we’ve got the equivalent of President Snow now).

Most people who enjoy the Hunger Games or any kind of violent book or movie or show would never condone violence in real life. A good chunk of media is violent. So many graphic movies and video games out there nowadays where you kill people. Doesn’t mean it’s okay in reality. And most people know that it’s just fiction and would never condone it in real life. If they do, they’re gonna be put in jail for it. Violence isn’t “normalized” just because there are so many violent video games and movies that “glorify” it. Violence is still a crime (unless self-defense) and looked-down upon.

I’m gonna end this by saying...

If a ship makes you uncomfortable, that is 100% valid. Maybe when you were a young teen, you were in a relationship with an 18 year old who took advantage of you/the relationship was a bad experience/etc. Maybe you just think it’s icky. A few ships squick me out for various reasons, nothing wrong with that. For whatever reason, if a ship makes you uneasy, that is fine.

What is not fine is you harassing and sending hate to people who do ship those ships.

What is not fine is you harassing the crew and cast of a show for mentioning/supporting/being okay with those ships. Here’s looking at those of you who harassed that one Voltron voice actor on Twitter a few days ago that I heard about. If you participated in that harassment or support those who did it, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

What is not fine is you making negative posts and tagging it as “anti (thing).” Freedom of speech, yeah, you can do whatever the hell you want, make all the negative posts you want, I can’t stop you. But it’s childish. Especially the passive aggressive, condescending ones like “friendly reminder that (ship/show) is problematic because (reasons) (emoji).” Also tagging it as “anti (thing)” does nothing. That may prevent it from appearing in the “/tagged/(thing),” but I don’t look at tags, I just use the regular search which is /search(thing).” You putting “anti” in front of the thing doesn’t make it not appear in search. When I search (thing) I’m still going to see your negative “anti” post. Imagine someone trying to have a positive experience, wanting to find new art to reblog, and stumbling across your anti post. That instantly puts me in a bad mood. Stop that crap. If you dislike something, why waste your time and energy making posts against it? I don’t understand. I’m going to have to black list the word “anti” so I don’t see all the negativity when I’m just trying to find cute fan art or a translation of an official interview or something, jeez

You have tools to avoid any ships you dislike. Blacklist, unfollow, and block if you have to. It’s simple.

#yoi #voltron #i had this drafted for a while now i wasn't sure if I should post it #but that 'anti-yoi' tag set me off #so i added some things #personalpost #sorry for the novel I don't normally rant like this without a readmore at least #but i'm very full of salt at the moment #mystuff #mytext #my thoughts and rambles

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