#how are fanfic writers not screenwriters

[writingwithfolklore]

How to Translate Feedback

              Beta readers are awesome because they see the work strictly from a reader’s perspective. However, this also means that their notes sometimes require a little interpreting to understand how it impacts the craft—translating, one could say.

Every interpretation of a piece is valuable, and often what your readers assume about things, what questions they have, and what they guess comes next is very telling for the messages your piece is delivering and how effective your lines are working together. Let’s get into some common comments you might receive:

“I was confused about this line…”

              Even if the line is explained in the next paragraph, or even the next sentence, don’t disregard this feedback. A confusing line is going to stop up readers, interrupting their mental image of the scene and sometimes concentration on the story. Confusion around a line tends to mean there isn’t enough context to make it feel seamless, or like it fits where it is. You shouldn’t have to be playing catch up with your descriptions.

              Take for example a story I wrote when I was in fourth grade (yes, literally):

Tracy took off her coat as she entered her cabin. She crept across the floor very silently. If she was too loud, she’d wake the howler monkeys and never be able to get to sleep!

              Notice how there’s no context provided for why she’s trying to be quiet, so you kind of get caught up on that line. I would fix it like this:

              Tracy took off her coat as she entered her cabin, eyeing the sleeping monkeys out of her window cautiously. She crept across the floor… etc.

              Now we have context, it reads a lot more seamlessly.

(If they guess something is coming that isn’t)

              This one hurts because I hate feeling like I’m letting down my readers, and an excited “ooh is this foreshadowing??” for something that definitely isn’t coming back up again feels like exactly that. Usually, when a reader guesses at a plot point or character detail that isn’t true or isn’t going to come back up again, it means you drew too much attention to it, making it seem more important than it is.

              I tend to take out the description of the thing, or adjust it so it points less heavily towards one thing and points more towards another. While yes, readers can make incorrect guesses all the time, it’s important to pay attention to where their expectations are being raised—both in the correct places and incorrect ones. Too many disappointments, and your story may leave a sour aftertaste.

“This feels out of character/I don’t understand the motivation”

              When writers get this note, they tend to want to add a paragraph explaining from the character’s POV why they’re doing what they’re doing. Unfortunately, all the explanation in the world isn’t going to fix something that feels out of character or out of the norm. This might mean that you’re trying to force a scene or plot point that doesn’t fit, or that the circumstances aren’t extreme enough to justify your character acting out of sorts.

              Try ramping up the stakes or intensity if a character has to make a tough decision that might seem unlike them—usually a time limit or ticking clock helps here. If you’re only using internal motivation, try adding an external force pushing them towards action (or vice versa).

              If all else fails, consider how you can progress the plot in a different way that’s more in-character.

Shoot me some more common notes you get and maybe we'll do a part 2 :-)

[r3medialch8os]

are you normal or have you written 402,809 words on trobed in less than two years

[ljandersen]

hey girl 😭,

I just finished reading ur fanfic sideways and i was just wondering when part 5 is coming out, cos that cliffhanger left me ispeechless and i NEED more 😭😭😭💔

I'm so glad you enjoyed Sideways! I wrote it with so much love and emotion. I'm so gratified when readers are moved by it too!

For an update on Sideways Part 5, it's not currently on my front burner. That's not to say I'm no longer writing, and I haven't forgotten about it. In fact, my current project is distantly connected, so Sideways is never far from my mind.

There were many factors that influenced my decision to shift priorities. I spent two years writing Sideways. I spent an additional two years, not writing anything new, simply editing. And I hate editing.

Each part of Sideways has become progressively more labor-intensive. Part 5 will require the most work by far. It requires adjusting storylines, writing new scenes, and rewriting old scenes. I have to type it up from handwritten notebooks.

As the editing has grown more demanding, the fandom has grown more quiet (broadly speaking). It's only natural post-lockdown and MELE hype, but it's discouraging.

I came to the point where I was burned out. Having my work stolen and published on Amazon pushed me past the tipping point. I needed a break.

On the flip side, with the AI revolution, it felt like I needed to follow my dreams. If it's not now, it will literally be never.

Who knows where we'll be in five years or even just one? Will authors be displaced by prompt writers? Instead of devotion to craft and intricate storytelling, someone will push a key and churn out hundreds of novels from an algorithm? Quality is easily overwhelmed by quantity in the marketplace.

I've dreamed of being an author since before I knew how to write my first word. It's upsetting to fail at a dream, but what happens when that dream simply ceases to exist?

For those reasons, I chose to reprioritize my project. While I love Sideways and the readers who support me -- I miss them! -- I knew it was time to shift focus. I need a chance to write something new instead of only editing. Most important of all, the window for my dream is closing and I need to be there for it.

I have my first draft of Part 5 in a safe. It's waiting for me, and I'll be back for it soon. For now, I think about it every day and have every intention of finishing it.

[mr-mustache-penis]

i really don't know why i bother writing fic anymore :/

[physalian]

What No One Tells You About Writing #5

Part 4

Part 3

Part 2

Shorter list this time, but longer points. I expect this one to be more divisive, but it is what it is, and this is what ‘no one tells you’ about writing, after all. This one’s all about feedback and how to take it, and give it.

1. Not everyone will like your book, no matter how good it is

I’ve said this before, granted, but sometimes you can have very arbitrary reasons for not liking an otherwise great story. For example: I refuse to watch Hamilton. Why? Because everyone I knew and their dog was trying to cram it down my throat when it came out and I still don’t really like musicals, and didn’t appreciate the bombardment of insisting I’ll like it simply because everyone else does. I’m sure it’s great! I’m just not watching it until I want to watch it.

It can be other reasons, too. I won’t read fanfic that’s written in first person, doesn’t matter how good it is. Someone might not watch a TV show because the primary cast is white or not-white. Someone might not watch a movie because an actor they despise is in it, even if the role is fantastic. Someone might not watch or read a story that’s too heavy on the romance, or not enough, or too explicit. I went looking for beta readers and came across one who wouldn’t touch a book where the romance came secondary in a sci-fi or fantasy novel. Kept on scrolling.

Someone can just think your side character is unfunny and doesn’t hear the same music as everyone else. Someone can just not like your writing style with either too much or not enough fluff, or too much personality in the main narrator. Or they have triggers that prevent them from enjoying it the way you intend.

How someone expresses that refusal is not your job to manage. You cannot force someone to like your work and pushing too hard will just make it worse. Some people just won’t like it, end of story.

2. Criticism takes a very long time to take well

Some people are just naturally better at taking constructive criticism, some have a thick skin, some just have a natural confidence that beats back whatever jabs the average reader or professional editor can give. If you’re like me, you might’ve physically struggled at first to actually read the feedback and insisted that your beta readers color-coded the positive from the negative.

It can be a very steep climb up the mountain until you reach a point where you know you’re good enough, and fully appreciate that it is actually “constructive” and anything that isn’t, isn’t worth your time.

The biggest hurdle I had to climb was this: A criticism of my work is not a criticism of me as a person.

Yes, my characters are built with pieces of my personality and worldview and dreams and ideals, but the people giving you feedback should be people who either already know you as a person and are just trying to help, or are people you pay to be unbiased and only focus on what’s on the page.

Some decisions, like a concerning moral of your story, is inadvertently a criticism of your own beliefs—like when I left feedback that anxiety can’t just be loved away and believing so is a flawed philosophy. I did that with intent to help, not because I thought the writer incompetent or that they wrote it in bad faith.

I’m sure it wasn’t a fun experience reading what I had to say, either. It’s not fun when I get told a character I love and lost sleep over getting right isn’t getting the same reception with my betas. But they’re all doing it (or at least they all should be doing it) from a place of just wanting to help, not to insult your writing ability. Even if your writing objectively sucks, you’re still doing a lot more just by putting words on paper than so many people who can’t bring themselves to even try.

As with all mediums subjects to critique, one need not be an author to still give valuable feedback. I’m not a screenwriter, but from an audience’s standpoint, I can tell you what I think works. Non-authors giving you pointers on the writing process? You can probably ignore that. Non-authors giving you pointers on how your character lands? Then, yeah, they might have an opinion worth considering.

3. Parsing out the “constructive” from the criticism isn’t easy

This goes for people giving it as well. Saying things like “this book sucks” is an obviously useless one. Saying “I didn’t like this story because it was confusing and uncompelling” is better. “I think this story was confusing and uncompelling because of X, and I have some suggestions here that I think can make it better.”

Now we’re talking.

Everyone’s writing style is different. Some writers like a lot of fluff and poetic prose to immerse you in the details and the setting, well beyond what you need to understand the scene or the plot. Their goal is to make this world come alive and help you picture the scene exactly the way they see it in their minds.

There’s writers who are very light on the sensory fluff and poetry, trying to give you the impression of what the scene should look and feel like and letting you fill in the missing pieces with your own vision.

Or there’s stories that take a long time to get anywhere, spending many pages on the small otherwise insignificant slice-of-life details as opposed to laser-precision on the plot, and those who trim off all the fat for a fast-paced rollercoaster.

None of these are inherently bad or wrong, but audiences do have their preferences.

The keyword in “constructive criticism” is “construct”. As in, your advice is useless if you can’t explain why you think an element needs work. “It’s just bad” isn’t helpful to anyone.

When trying to decide if feedback has merit, try to look at whatever the critic gives you and explain what they said to yourself in your own words. If you think changing the piece in question will enhance your story or better convey what you’re trying to say, it’s probably solid advice.

Sometimes you just have to throw the whole character out, or the whole scene, whole plot line and side quest. Figuring out what you can salvage just takes time, and practice.

4. Just when you think you’re done, there’s more

There’s a quote out there that may or may not belong to Da Vinci that goes “art is never finished, only abandoned.” Even when you think your book is as good as it can be, you can still sleep on it and second-guess yourself and wonder if something about it could have been done better or differently.

There is such a thing as too much editing.

But it also takes a long time to get there. Only 10-15% of writing is actually penning the story. The rest is editing, agonizing over editing, re-editing, and staring at the same few lines of dialogue that just aren't working to the point that you dream about your characters.

It can get demoralizing fast when you think you’ve fixed a scene, get the stamp of approval from one reader, only for the next one to come back with valid feedback neither of you considered before. So you fix it again. And then there’s another problem you didn’t consider. And then you’re juggling all these scene bits and moments you thought were perfect, only for it to keep collapsing.

It will get there. You will have a manuscript you’re proud of, even if it’s not the one you thought you were going to write. My newest book isn’t what I set out to write, but if I stuck to that original idea, I never would have let it become the work that it is.

5. “[Writing advice] is more like guidelines than actual rules.”

Personally, I think there’s very few universal, blanket pieces of writing advice that fit every book, no exceptions, no conditions, no questions asked. Aside from: Don’t sacrifice a clear story for what you think is cool, but horribly confusing.

For example, I’m American, but I like watching foreign films from time to time. The pacing and story structure of European films can break so many American rules it’s astonishing. Pacing? What pacing? It’s ~fancy~. It wants to hang on a shot of a random wall for fifteen seconds with no music and no point because it’s ~artsy~. Or there is no actual plot, or arc, it’s just following these characters around for 90 minutes while they do a thing. The entire movie is basically filler. Or the ending is deeply unsatisfying because the hoity-toity filmmaker believes in suffering for art or… something.

That doesn’t fly with mainstream American audiences. We live, breathe, and die on the Hero’s Journey and expect a three-act-structure with few novel exceptions.

That does not mean your totally unique or subversive plot structure is wrong. So much writing advice I’ve found is solid advice, sure, but it doesn’t often help me with the story I’m writing. I don’t write romance like the typical romance you’d expect (especially when it comes to monster allegories). There’s some character archetypes I just can’t write and refuse to include–like the sad, abusive, angsty, 8-pack abs love interest, or the comedic relief.

Beyond making sure your audience can actually understand what you’re trying to say, both because you want your message to be received, and you don’t want your readers to quit reading, there is an audience for everything, and exceptions to nearly every rule, even when it comes to writing foundations like grammar and syntax.

You don’t even have to put dialogue in quotes. (Be advised, though, that the more ~unique~ your story is, the more likely you are to only find success in a niche audience).

Lots of writing advice is useful. Lots of it is contradictory. Lots of it is outdated because audience expectations are changing constantly. There is a balance between what you *should* do as said by other writers, and what you think is right for your story, regardless of what anyone else says.

Just don’t make it confusing.

—

I just dropped my cover art and summary for my debut novel. Go check it out and let me know what you think!

[firstkanaphans]

You were the person that pointed out that THKs screenwriters were the ones from pit babe and now we have a brainwash-y parent whose abused kids are slowly waking up from their abuse to see the real villain in THK and I just wanted to know if you had any thoughts on the topic? like pit babe and the heartkillers and their narratives etc

You know, it's really hard to say because I'm not sure how much of the script was already written by Jojo before he passed it along to Change's writing team to finish up. My assumption is that Jojo gave them a pretty detailed outline and then they wrote the script from that. First said during Live House yesterday that Jojo tends to add a lot to the script on the day of filming so I'm assuming he just kind of tweaks their work to his liking as they go along.

Basically, I'm just not sure how much autonomy these writers had over the THK script whereas they're the only ones credited on Pit Babe. I do think we can thank them for the fantastic dialogue, though, and there are also some similar overarching themes between the two shows such as the evil parent getting their comeuppance and the central conflict being external to the relationship rather than internal, which I love.

One thing I've always been kind of curious about is how much of a screenwriter's previous works bleed into their current projects—especially in a small industry like Thai QL where some of these screenwriters are writing five or six scripts a year. While Peaceful property was airing, those screenwriters talked about how difficult it was to write for Peach and Home because they were the same team that wrote Cherry Magic and they still had Karan and Achi in their heads. I wouldn't be surprised at all if, on some level, THK was Pit Babe fanfic to them. (Style as Alan, Fadel as Jeff, Bison as Charlie, Kant as Babe. Do you see my vision???)

I really do adore this team of writers, though. In addition to Pit Babe, they wrote This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans, Dead Friend Forever, Be My Favorite, and are currently working on Petrichor. They're very talented and I hope they keep working for Change because I think they really thrive with plots that allow them to be a bit more sensual.

[zepskies]

Hey! I just wanna start with saying that I read, I think, nearly every work you posted (all the Jensen’s ones at least) and I absolutely loved all of them. I mean the writing and the storylines are really amazing and I think you’re an incredible writer!! <3

Now I myself want, maybe not publish, but even just to write for myself a story. A Dean’s fanfic to be exact. I have an idea in my head of the story that I’ve slowly been building for the last year through imagining. I even wrote down a few bullet points ideas so I’ll have something to begin with, but I have no idea how to continue from here.

When it comes to verbal expressions, I have no idea what to do, or developing a plot, also clueless. Just the whole writing process no fucking idea, but I really want to learn.

So I was really hoping if you could give me some advices on how to write a story, how to develop the plot, how to write characters, original ones or ones that already exist in the media, without you know the story sounding like an AI wrote it or a 13 yo on wattpad.

Thank you very much ahead and have a lovely day!!<3 <3

Wow, thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoy my writing. It always makes me so happy when people give me feedback on my stories. 🥰🥰 And that's awesome that you want to start writing your own story with Dean!

You're on the right track with the bullet points -- it sounds like you're starting to create a loose outline. If you want to know a bit about my writing process, that's exactly where I start after creating the initial idea/paragraph synopsis of the story I want to write.

There are two kinds of writers, in my opinion:

Architects: writers who outline.

Adventurers: writers who freeform.

(More on this, my process, + some of my favorite creative writing resources and tips below the cut):

In most respects, I consider myself an Architect. My brain craves structure. So the way I beat writer's block while working on a project is by having a roadmap of what's going to happen next. That's thanks to my outline.

Even if you find yourself more of a freeformer, you can develop some kind of pre-writing plan, whether that's creating a list of character bios, starting with the basic 3-Act triangle, or writing out a handful of bullet points to get you going.

For my personal process, I'll go from creating the basic premise/summary, to some loose bullet points of the story structure, to then fleshing out into full outlining of each chapter and scene, and finally drafting (and editing).

While I'm outlining, I'm also doing research and fact-checking as needed to get me through to the next scene and the next, until the end. My "roadmap" tends to be very detailed, so when I get to the drafting part, all I should have to reference is my outline.

Now, this doesn't mean that plot points won't change, or get switched around, or get chucked entirely. But if I have the blueprints of the house, I can change a window or a door, or even a whole support beam here and there, so to speak.

As far as the actual development of plot, character arcs, and good dialogue, I would really recommend you take a creative writing class! There are probably free ones online, but there are also a lot of other great resources. Here are a few I can share with you:

On Storytelling:

Save the Cat - Blake Snyder's theory on storytelling is one of the most popular across screenwriting and novel writing, and you can apply it to your fanfic. Above all, story is story, no matter the medium. Pay special attention to Snyder's Beat Sheets. You can begin to figure out the plot of the story using that as a guide.

11 Plot Types to Build Your Novel - linked this earlier in the post, but putting it again here.

5 Tips for Beating Writer's Block - One of my posts that could help you get unstuck, if/when you do get stuck (we've ALL been there).

Joseph Campbell - The Hero's Journey - Very common in coming of age stories, origin stories (as in superheroes), and high fantasy.

Narratology - Mieke Bal - One of my favorite books on narrative elements and technique. Literally a study of narrative.

On Dialogue:

Good scenes are built with a balance of smart and necessary dialogue, and exposition (what's happening in the scene, description of the characters' actions and thoughts/inner monologues, and any atmospheric details).

Dialogue is about how the characters are interacting with each other. It's about creating a moment where subtext is important -- meaning that what isn't said is just as important as what is being said. A scene can shift in tone from humor, to angst, to hurt/comfort, to fluff, etc. For me, these shifts most often happen when I'm writing the characters' dialogue with each other.

Characters should have distinct voices. When writing fanfiction, I'm always trying to make sure the canon characters sound like themselves in their dialogue and inner thoughts, as well as act like they would, based on their personality traits (including strengths, weaknesses, and insecurities).

How to Write Great Dialogue (Masterclass article)

Tips for Writing Dialogue

How to Write Dialogue in Fiction

How to Write Good Dialogue in a Novel

On Creating Compelling Character Arcs:

This goes hand-in-hand when you're developing the plot, because in my opinion, the best stories are character-driven. Meaning that their choices shape how the narrative moves. On the whole, things don't just happen to characters -- they made decisions that have either positive or negative consequences.

Characters have a goal that they're aiming for, and of course, there should be obstacles that try and prevent the main characters from getting that thing.

Torment Your Hero in 8 Steps

Joseph Campbell's Hero Journey (linked above) can also help to craft an epic character arc. Note: you don't need to include all those steps in a story.

The Structure of Romance - a basic structure of the genre (basically of romantic comedies), but not the end-all-be-all of writing romance stories. Reread or rewatch your favorite romances! Take a look at the structure and see what similarities you find and what aspects you want to include in your own story.

Basically, there's nothing new under the sun, but you can still create your own story with your own unique voice based on the aspects of relationships, character archetypes, worlds, genres, and tropes that bring you joy! 💜

Thanks for dropping into my inbox, hun! Let me know if any of this helps. 😉

[transformers-spike]

Not sure how true this is but I hear Thundercracker is a screenwriter in IDW. I haven’t read IDW yet but it gave me a funny thought. What if Thundercracker had a tumblr account where he would post Human x Cybertronian fanfics. He’d have a good amount of secret followers indulging in their new found human fetish, a fetish they’ve been too freaked to admit out loud. Thundercracker’s blog makes them feel accepted, they feel that they’re not alone. He’s formed a community for the humanfuckers. Where he frequently gets asks asking him “Can you write Human x Prime?” , “Can you write Human x Decepticon?” “Can you write Human x -” Which brings me to my next thought. You both are writers so it’s funny to think about you, transformers-spike, and Thundercracker being mirrors of each other in terms of writing blogs. You know how your name is transformers-spike? What if Thundercracker’s user on tumblr is something like humans-penis. And he gets asks about how things would work when it comes to interfacing with humans. At this point, I headcannon you as Thundercracker LMAOOO. But the Human AU version.

Reading this made me tear up by god

I can't believe I'm Thundercracker's humansona. I'm gonna have to rethink my whole existence on tumblr and possibly switch Sentinel's face with Thundercracker's as my pfp

[herefortheships]

If anything, this could be a good idea for a fanfic.

I was thinking earlier, what could they do with Astrid for Beetlejuice 3? There are many possibilities for her character. She doesn't have to be reduced to moody teenager angry at her mom, especially now that her issues with Lydia were resolved after Beetlejuice 2. There's also the fact that now she knows there truly is an afterlife and that her dad is okay. She also now has the ability to see ghosts and interact with them, so there's a lot for Astrid to get to know about herself and her new abilities.

And that's what I'm getting at. She now has to get used to her newfound ability to interact with the dead. For a girl who was skeptical of ghosts only days before she discovered all of this, it won't be too easy to get used to her new life. Lucky for her, she has her mother; Lydia might not have had anybody to help her. Sure, she had the Maitlands, but she had no psychic, living person to teach her how to handle her ability, and we can see how a life of being able to see and talk to ghosts did take a toll on Lydia's mental heath. Astrid has Lydia to help her, but, and here's where we go into head-canon speculation territory: what if Astrid's abilities to interact with the world of the dead go beyond Lydia's? What if she feels alone with her new powers, realizing her mom can't help her? Heck, what if Lydia herself realizes she can't really help Astrid? You guessed it: enter Betelgeuse.

I can see Astrid being the one to call him, though, in this story idea. Here's a good reason to summon him: he might be the only one Astrid can turn to for help now. As I've said probably too many times already in this blog, Astrid doesn't really know Betelgeuse yet. She only knows that her mom says he's bad news, that he's crazy about her mom, and that he saved her life. That's it. She doesn't really have evidence of him being really bad news (if we discount the influencers lol). He did puppeteer her into a dance around the wedding cake, but, is there anything truly harmless in that? He just put on a show for the wedding. This only served to show how scary powerful he truly is.

Astrid might come to the conclusion that she will need someone else to help her navigate this new life with what she can only describe as supernatural powers, and Betelgeuse might be the only one who can really help her. Maybe Lydia and her even get into an argument over something Astrid realized she could do with these abilities she gained not only through her bloodline, but also through having died and then returned to life in the Netherworld (we're in speculation territory here, so let's go crazy). Maybe what Astrid discovered she could do now, which scared Lydia, was the ability to control others just like Betelgeuse and the Maitlands and likely other ghosts can do.

So Astrid goes to someone she knows will help her navigate all this, and that is Betelgeuse. Here's where the writers can get creative. I love the suggestion about Betelgeuse helping Astrid if she helps him win Lydia's heart. That'd be fun to watch and also a plausible storyline if the screenwriters sit down to think a little. They just have to come up with the antagonistic force, and that one's pretty easy too. It could be Delores again, or it could be a threat from the world of the living. OR better yet: a threat from the Netherworld coming after Astrid because of her Supernatural abilities. They just have to get creative. But this idea for Astrid I really like, tbh; her figuring out she will need more help than what her mom can give her. Alternatively, here's also where they can bring in Lydia's mom. Lydia could think her mom has the answers to everything about their ghost-seeing powers. And I really like the idea of Astrid having gained something more from her brief ordeal in the Netherworld. I've seen a few fans suggest this one about Astrid’s powers here. (Reply so I can tag you if this was you; I believe they mentioned Astrid having powers being something similar to Danny Phantom but not quite. I gotta scroll through my blog to find it.)

[that-left-turn]

It seems to me like norman was vocally pro caryl around season 2/3 and then became vocally anti caryl after Melissa won her Saturn awards for seasons 4 and 5 and became a main cast member.. and then became vocally pro caryl again after she got paired with ezekiel.. and then he's anti caryl after they break up and has been ever since - even more so now that he's got "his own show".

Do we have any good idea of who was behind the leah story and the connie shipbait? Even though they used both to give caryl parallels, those seem like the main obstructions in season 10 for driving caryl forward. I wasn't actively shipping them then, but I felt the show was starting to push caryl towards canon, but then when leah popped up, I was like 'oh... ok??? I guess I was wrong then, stupid me'. As for connie, I thought it was to show "it's not like that", but it was never made fully clear. I wonder what the motivations were really behind introducing those two characters as ships for daryl.

BASICS

Each character arc and the emotional arcs which involve one or more characters are laid out in pre-production, so the season is fully plotted before any scripts are written. There are zero surprises in screenwriting: each episode has a treatment, which details every scene and that's the basis used for writing the screenplay. The individual episode writers have no freedom to deviate from the plot, so it's very different from writing a novel or fanfic.

LEAH

The Leah arc was supposed to further Caryl's emotional arc, but a lot of plotlines were dropped or shortchanged in S11 because of things going on BTS. S9-10 were very deliberate and intricately plotted with a myriad of little beats throughout the seasons which were supposed to lead to a bigger picture reveal in S11, like how Daryl's facial scar factored into Caryl's relationship. If the showrunner is a good plotter, the groundwork for seasons to come is laid early, giving the audience plenty of puzzle pieces.

Unfortunately, Leah's arc was both stunted and misappropriated into a Maggie revenge plot which had zero payoff because viewers had no emotional investment in her entourage of redshirts. We don't know exactly how the Leah arc would've played out if the original vision had been followed, but it's clear from the pieces we do have that it would've led to Caryl canon so no, you weren't wrong or stupid. Leah was intended to be a foil for Carol and a catalyst for Caryl. I'm unsure of how sound this particular plot twist was, considering how easily something like that can get ruined when dealing with recalcitrant execs, but Kang is a detail-oriented writer, so as a viewer, I was willing to make a leap of faith with her.

SHIPBAIT

As for Connie, my guesstimate based on productions I've worked on, is that the network wanted to tease the possibility of 'something' to draw a larger share and to drag out the will-they-won't-they for Caryl (which doesn't work in today's TV). Sometimes, showrunners get notes where they have to make the best out of a situation they disagree with and Connie was never intended to be anything other than shipbait. The showrunner did her best to incorporate the studio notes into a storyline which would service the emotional arc she was actually trying to tell: Caryl thinking they aren't good enough or deserving of each other.

A good writer doesn't want to manipulate the audience. It's dishonest storytelling and it's not how you sustain and grow your viewership. You have to give clues along the way that will reward observant fans, even though the narrator might be unreliable. It's about building momentum and anticipation. If you do, a lot of the marketing will be self-driving at that point because of fan engagement.

If the Leah storyline hadn't gotten diverted, the use of Connie as a plot device in Carol's emotional arc would have been made clear. We never got any resolution to her self-loathing or the conflict between her and Daryl, and that's why there are still so many question marks surrounding the connection these two characters had to Daryl.

AUDIENCE RECEPTION

AMC has always wanted to sell the show to absolutely everyone and as long as there's a large ensemble cast, that might work to some degree, but it's not a long-term plan for sustained viewership and when the show is skimmed down to a handful of characters with the focus on two leads, it's no longer viable. The core emotional drive has to be the relationship between those two characters, no matter the nature of said relationship or whatever the external plot might be.

TBOC did everything to diminish and downplay Caryl's ties to each other and that was the biggest failing of the show. The hokey cult with its underdeveloped messianic plot and the fudged pseudoscience of the super walkers would've been forgiven and forgotten if Zabel had nailed the central message the season started out with, 'to find home is to find each other.' You don't need to be an amazing writer to write a show that people will enjoy, but you do have to respect your audience for them to stick with you in the long run.

[youraverageaemondsimp]

https://www.tumblr.com/youraverageaemondsimp/756570049542864896

THIS! While I understand that there are copyright issues with fanfiction, to see that these so-called "professional writers" are completely fcking over a large franchise like this, it's clear that we should start questioning anyone who does not have fanfiction experience or anyone who looks down at fanfic writers.

while i have watched wonderful shows that are written by those who are non-fanfic writers, it is clear the writing prowess who have experience in fanfiction should not be underestimated. fanfiction is not just a series of smutty fics online. it's training you to write beyond just sentence level. it also trains you to write compelling character arcs. just look at Star Wars', "The Acolyte"! the screenwriter used to write Star Wars fanfiction! And everyone is raving about it on Tiktok! also, as a bit of a fun fact, writing fanfiction can start writing careers for you. for example, Hazel McBride on Tiktok. her aemond-targaryen-inspired fanfic went viral on AO3 and she now has a 6-figure book deal!

anyways, raving aside, i think it is time for Hollywood and novelists to start taking fanfic writers seriously now, especially when they are taking over large franchises like HOTD. and, honestly, at this stage, i have lost my trust in anyone who does not have fanfic writing experience.

I agree with you! Fanfic isn't always about smut, there have been many fics I've read that outdid the original show itself and it was absolutely mind blowing.

Any writing experience is still a writing experience.

And fanfic writers are still writers ! They just come up with a plot that involves already existing characters, there are many fics I've read on my time here on tumblr that will borderline pass as good stories if they didn't have already existing characters, that's how talented the writers over here are.

Let me give you a few examples:

"Consequences" and "A perfect score" by @targaryenrealnessdarling

"Our last summer" & "Down in flames" by @sapphire-writes

"Behind the scenes" & "Could you pretend to be in love" by @neptuneiris

"Glass cuts deepest" & "Fall from the heavens" by @flowerandblood

Any many more I'm probably forgetting!

But yes, the point is that fanfic writers are indeed valid and are true writers, they have creativity and the ability to take the source material and turn it into an absolute masterpiece. They should start taking fanfic writers seriously.

[imagitory]

@andrewmoocow Personally I find them to be misguided. There is a very well-done analysis video I've cited before that talks about the animation and why it ends up looking like AI, and I think it really addresses this argument better than I could --

-- but TL;DR, the animation looks "fake" largely because of stylistic decisions (l.e. turning off motion blur with the thought it would look "more like 2D") that weren't well thought-out. And I actually think the film's writing issues run into the same problem.

Because here's the thing -- writing high fantasy is not as easy as it looks. I can testify to this because I myself am writing a draft for a high fantasy novel right now.

All these years, Disney has been in an advantageous position with their animated films largely being adaptations of previous works, since they're already given a lot of the parameters a writer needs to build a world, plot, and characters. In a Snow White adaptation, for instance, you need a vain queen, an innocent princess, a prince, seven dwarfs, a magic mirror, and a poisoned apple, as well as a fairy tale world where these things fit comfortably. And since so much mainstream fantasy is largely inspired by medieval Europe, that aesthetic remains very familiar with audiences to the point that you need a lot less explanation for things. We don't really need an explanation for the political landscape of Cinderella because we see "fairy tale kingdom" and immediately know it's an absolute monarchy led by generally amiable rulers. We're not surprised when fairies appear in Sleeping Beauty, or when a magical sword predicts who should be king in The Sword in the Stone, or when Tiana and Naveen are turned into frogs in The Princess and the Frog, or when trolls appear in Frozen -- all of these magical conventions fit within the usual fantasy aesthetic and really don't need any explanation or backstory. I'd hazard to say that most people -- aside from those nitpicky critic types who get all hung up on how many servants are in Beast's castle just because they saw a bunch of extra silverware in the Be Our Guest sequence -- just don't bother questioning these things. And the original material also gives some shape and form to the adaptation's story, characters, and overall feel. It doesn't matter how close the finished product matches the original idea or even how familiar the audience is with that original material -- it still provides a jump-off point and sense of focus for the writer(s), the same way fanfiction (even an AU fanfic) can, in contrast to original content.

All right, well, what about those Disney projects that aren't fantasy? Well, in the case of stories like Treasure Planet, Robin Hood, and Mulan, they're still based off preexisting properties that people will find familiar enough that the writers can focus more on the adaptation's unique additions and not focus on detailed backstories and explanations about how the world and societies depicted in the story work. It's a lot easier to just focus on the fantastical elements like the space tech, talking animals, or Mushu and the ancestors if the rest of the story and cast are relatively easy to understand. Even in the case of original stories like The Lion King (which admittedly was largely inspired by Shakespeare's Hamlet, but I digress), Lilo and Stitch, and Lady and the Tramp, they still exist in a non-magical world that closely resembles ours, with only superficial changes like animals being able to talk or the existence of aliens. Even quasi-historical settings like The Great Mouse Detective and Atlantis: The Lost Empire look enough like our real-world equivalent that their settings are largely recognizable to us.

In just about all Disney animated films, the screenwriters didn't have to world-build that much. They didn't have to put the character development and plot on hold to explain the rules of the universe these stories take place in that often -- not unlike how writers like Rick Riordan didn't have to explain as much about the country his hero Percy Jackson lives in, because his books are an urban fantasy where our real world is just "plused up" with magical elements. We don't need to know if gravity works on the story's characters the way it does for us. We don't need to be told about the political landscape, history, or terrain of our location. We don't need to ask whether dying is something our characters can come back from.

Wish, on the other hand, is an original story in a high fantasy setting that doesn't resemble our world. People might try to claim it takes place in the Iberian Peninsula, but come on -- Rosas is a completely fictional country in a world that has magic we don't know the rules of and countries that faintly resemble cultures from our world, but we don't know the histories of or how similar they actually are to their real-world inspiration. We also have a cast of characters we've never met in any other media and a story and messages that we know nothing about beforehand. This means that we have no preexisting framework going in for what's possible and impossible in this world; no frame of reference about who these characters are and what their histories are; and no parameters that the plot, characters, and themes must fit inside, whether based on the fantastical story being adapted or a real-world setting that's a lot like ours. And I don't think that Disney really thought through just how challenging it can sometimes be to tell this kind of a story without stuffing the script with a lot of "tell" and not "show," which, as just about any film person can tell you, is the exact opposite of what you generally want. In film scripts, you want to show your audience a lot more than you tell them -- this not only takes full advantage of the visual medium and communicates your point in a much more natural and artistic way, but it also lets your audience think for itself and come to its own conclusions.

Now of course, can you write a high fantasy original story that's easy to follow and evokes a lot of emotion in your audience? Of course! But it does take time and a lot of careful and creative world-building. J.R.R. Tolkien was the king of such things. George R. R. Martin has done it. Neil Gaiman has done it. Ursula K. Le Guin has done it. Even the writer of the Nimona graphic novel, ND Stevenson, did a good job of it! But I think it's quite clear that Wish's script was not in the works that long -- development of the original idea started back in 2018, yes, but it wasn't until January 2022 that it was announced Jennifer Lee was writing it and Julia Michaels was brought on to write the songs, so the film's current trajectory likely wasn't pinpointed until then. And if the film was released in November 2023, then that means Wish's script was finished in under two years. Although there are successful Disney scripts that I daresay needed only that much time (Frozen, for instance, was quite rushed, by all accounts), once again, those scripts were done for stories with some sort of preexisting framework that allowed the writers to skip explaining certain visual or contextual short-hand in favor of focusing on their own creative flourishes in character and story. They were written with a tighter focus on the plot and its players without the need to build a complete stage under them.

The reason some people want to cry "AI!" when they look at Wish's writing is that they're looking at a script that makes the rookie writing mistake of exposition-dumping in an attempt to make its audience care, rather than evoking emotion. That kind of exposition-dumping is something that most novelists usually have to trim and rewrite in future drafts of their work: it's a mistake done while the writer is trying to world-build enough that their audience understands all of these original rules, societies, locations, and characters they're not familiar with. This exposition is then often trimmed down before publishing, and when adapted for the screen it's often trimmed even further or even completely rewritten, in favor of more visual methods of conveying the same information. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz writes about Dorothy traveling down the Yellow Brick Road and about the long journey that takes her and her friends through a lot of side adventures on their way to the Emerald City: it's the famous film adaptation that cuts out the Kalidahs and puts the whole trip to jaunty music for the characters to sing and dance to. Wish could've communicated to us the importance of the wishes to their owners through more visual means, but instead feels the need to reiterate this idea over and over through written dialogue. And again, this is a common mistake by writers when they're inexperienced in creating completely original content, as opposed to spin-offs, sequels, or adaptations of other people's work.

AI writing is generally known for repetitive phrasing and sentence structure, lack of accuracy, and lack of a personal touch. As much as I'll agree that there are a lot of character and world-building choices in Wish that don't make sense, I don't think that's the same thing. There clearly was a story someone (or multiple people) wanted to tell about a person hoarding the precious ideas of other people away, even if it means those ideas can never be shared with the world -- it just wasn't a story that ended up being told that well. And I think this is why Wish is almost worth seeing -- it serves as a good example of why certain writing decisions work better than others and how writing for fantasy projects and/or "family entertainment" is an art form that's worthy of respect when it's done right.

To sum up my stance on the matter -- I think Disney just bit off way more than it could chew and then didn't give its writers enough time to properly digest it.

[scrollll]

Why Playboyy characters can't let me go

Seriously, I keep asking myself again and again why the actors and roles have such a grip on me (first of all: TALENT!) and I have come across another thesis...

All the characters have full first and last names, plus their nicknames. Even if they aren't mentioned even once in the show, they are listed and present in MDL (much to the delight of my fanfic writer heart, wohoo!) Now you might be thinking "So what, they have names then, the fuck, chill?" Babes. Nope. Here it comes We already know from interviews that Phop's character is based on a real character and that View himself was extremely emotionally affected by his story. My guess is it was similar with other characters.

Not that they are all based on real people, but rather that they all have far more history than we were shown in the show. Because as I watched the show (again and again) I noticed how damn real the characters seem in their motivations and decisions.

None of them seem plot-driven, rather the plot develops around them because of their differences and personal stories that interweave. It doesn't feel like "Character X, who has the role of best friend, mental support and otherwise just helps Y to get together with Z."

For almost all of the actors, Playboyy was their first leading role, whether Korn (Zouey), Fay (Porsche), Aun (Aob) or Jack (Soong), to name but a few.

Yet they all seemed natural and complex in their roles, like they knew every detail about their character. They act, like they're 100% confident it what the character is doing and why. Things like Jump's disabled mother (who is only mentioned once, but with a panic that I don't think Jump made her up) make the whole thing so much more detailed than it already is. Nuth's mental state of mind, especially the part of his past with a therapist or therapy (again, only mentioned once), is another example of how much thought has been put into the characters' backstories, what's for and what's against and why. Each character has all these little individual traits and details, habits that are not elaborated on in the show, but that make the characters seem so much more alive. Everyone has their own story, goals and pasts. What I'm saying, screenwriter and director of Playboyy… when there is so much plot around them all, that now is just sitting there, chilling… special ep/season 2 when?

[englishsub]

that post that's like "we should be breaking up all those pesky long paragraphs into short little digestible paragraphs" with swathes of people enthusiastically agreeing is how we ended up with the unreadable slop that was TO GAZE UPON WICKED GODS by molly x. chang. do not emphasize every single sentence. it's like highlighting everything in a textbook; everything that was supposed to be important is now not important at all. "new paragraph every time there would be a camera angle change in a movie" but books are not inherently movies. and movies are not inherently books. prose is not screenwriting. they are different mediums and that is why books that are adapted for the screen have to have entirely new screenplays written for them. "i learned this from fanfic" brother i can tell. you write with a fanfic accent and i do not mean that as a compliment. so many readers hate the act of reading and so many writers hate the act of writing. so many want to Have Read and Have Written.

[bluvlet]

feedback from my screenwriting class’ “writers’ room” today was that i can write convincing family dynamics and am good at effectively conveying an underlying sadness. constantly reminded about how i abandoned that trolley problem fanfic. i should finish that

[floodonthefloor]

i’ve been meaning to say something for ages now, but have only just gotten around to it because i know if i start typing words i’m just going to start spewing alllll my thoughts, so i’m locked in right now!! (edit: this is so long i’m so sorry)

firstly, i want to say that i’m obsessed with your love affair with italics. like hi WHAT—you have SUCH a flair, voice to your writing i think i could pick out your writing from a mile away. it’s always so distinct and full of love. you imbue your stories, your characters with so much love sometimes they don’t even know where to put it all. i don’t even know how to take in and cope with how rich your storytelling is.

you’re so so fucking good at dialogue—like immensely gifted. call it practice, call it skill, but it’s clear you understand people. you understand what makes people flawed, what makes them tick, what makes them hurt in a way not many writers do. the way they sound so real and every word means something. there’s not a single line that doesn’t serve a purpose to the narrative. like in the recent chapter of ‘less of a stranger’, alicent says “Get up, Aegon, get the fuck up!”—it’s so fucking raw—like that entire scene fucked me right up!! i mean every scene you write is a surprise and delight, but something about this one, one where we really get to see aegon and alicent face each other is gorgeous. i’ve been trying to figure out how to convey what your writing feels like, and i think it’s just come to me. it feels so cinematic. there are colors and body and this feeling that everything is larger than life.

just a silly side note, as a writer and screenwriter, what you’re doing is so so admirable because the fics youre writing would all be beautiful as films. theyre so emotion heavy and equally character and plot driven that they would work so beautifully as scripts as well. like RAHHH i’m just so fascinated by your thought process and ability to COOK. thank you thank you for the delicious fucking food!! thank you for writing and sharing<3 it’s a true pleasure and privilege to be able to read such phenomenal works of art!! also this was so surface level but i literally have no notes or lines saved that i loved because im always far too engrossed in every chapter to stop and type something down sofjksdk—so if there’s anything you ever want specific thoughts on i would absolutely be willing to write some thinky thoughts down!! sending love and good vibes :))

okay first of all

second of all

third of all this is so thoughtful and i can't stress enough how much messages like yours means to me. it's one thing to have people read the things you write (baring your soul is scary etc etc etc even if it's in the form of fanfic) but then to have ppl like yourself put so much time and thought and energy into a message like this is another thing entirely. like actually it's unbelievable how much of a difference it can make in my entire day my goodness. thank you so much