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dronebiscuitbat · 4 months

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Oil is Thicker Then Blood (Part 12)

It took a lot of convincing to make N go home after that, too busy fretting over her to look at the time and his own needs for oil.

But eventually, with a promise to see him in the morning with their planned visit to Tera, he reluctantly made the journey home, the vision of Uzi injured and terrified stained in his permanent memory as he flew back to the spire.

He wanted to protect her, he ached to in a way he wasn't sure until today he was capable of. It was overwhelming, how badly he felt the need to. He'd felt like this before, at the manor, over V, and over Cyn, but at that time the only thing he could do for either of them was take the punishment meant for them on himself.

If Tessa hadn't been so good with machines, he was certain he wouldn't be around today to spend time thinking about it.

But Now? He unsheathed his claws and flexed them, and felt his wings on his back.

He had everything he could ever need to protect her, armed until his chassis was overcrowded with weaponry. Made for killing as quickly and as brutally as possible.

That made no difference when the thing that was threatening her was part of her. It wasn't something he could kill, or threaten or scare off. So how?

He didn't know. He didn't even know if it was possible. But he was going to try.

Those thoughts lingered when he flew directly into his nest, not even taking the time to say hello to V before crashing into it. He likely wouldn't get any sleep, despite how tired he felt. Screw getting oil, he'd had enough to get by for another day at least.

“What's got you in a mood?” V's voice wafted towards him, she sat on the edge of his nest, looking both curious and annoyed. Her stilt-like legs hung over the side and her hand was holding her face, looking mildly bored.

He was absolutely not in the mood.

“Since when do you care?” He barked back, crossing his arms and glaring at her in a quite convincing impression of Uzi. V looked taken aback for a moment before smirking.

“Purple Thing's rubbing off on you.”

He felt the heat rising to his visor, he could almost taste the “Bite me.” that threatened to fall from his mouth, but that would only prove her point, wouldn't it?

“Just…” He deflated, he wasn't angry at V, not really. Just upset at himself for being unable to protect his best freind possibly love of his life for the umpteenth time. “Leave me alone tonight V. You don't want to talk to me anyway.”

If he'd been looking at her, he would have seen her wince at that before looking a little bit guilty.

“Normally, No I don't.” V said, although something in her voice told N that she wasn't entirely telling the truth. “But I don't think I've seen you this upset before.”

He was uncharacteristically silent before he turned to her, searching her face for some resemblance of the girl back at the manor, and was mildly surprised when he found it her eyes were soft.

“I'm useless…” He murmured. Avoiding her gaze, feeling… not butterflies but definitely something as old and familiar, rise into his core.

V… didn't know how to respond to that. Any other day she'd agree and make fun of him, but hearing him say it about himself and mean it. Seemed to momentarily turn off that part of her brain.

“For what?” She asked, she refused to show any kind of weakness to him, voice still having bite.

“I don't know! Everything!” He stood up suddenly, throwing his hands forward in a display of utter frustration, something V was noticing him expressing more of recently. No longer was he N the doormat, he was N, the guy who called her out and was starting to speak his mind.

Some part of her was happy for him. Not that she'd ever admit it to him.

“I can't protect Uzi, I couldn't protect you, I live in a mound of freaking corpses! Corpses! This isn't a house V! We're essentially homeless!”

“I'm useless! I've always been…” He deflated again as he trailed off, anger shifting into quiet misery. He leaned his head on one of the walls of the spire.

“Ugh. Stop.” V said, annoyed.

“For the record. I can protect myself.” She proved it by unsheathing her claws and giving him a feral smile. He wasn't fazed, that had been V's default expression for a long while now.

“And I'm pretty sure your little purple girlfriend can too. She's not fragile. If you want proof go look at J's empty nest.” He didn't even register she'd said “girlfriend” only continued to wallow in his sorrow.

“So it doesn't matter if you're useless at that. Those bases are already covered.” She shrugged, smirking again, but it gradually left her face as she realized he still didn't look like he felt any better. He grumbled at her, sitting back down. Clearly still in misery.

“And if living here bothers you so much, move out!” She shouted, and that caught his attention. He shifted his gaze to look at her, cocking it like a curious puppy.

“I promised I'd always be there for you…” His voice was so quiet she'd barely registered it, but once she did she felt all her processors stop at once, an old yet familiar feeling rising in her chest.

She answered it with violence, growling like a feral cat until it was buried in her once again. No. She didn't feel that way about him, not anymore.

“That was years ago. I'm not…” She trailed off, she remembered how terrified she used to be and how powerless she was. N had been the only good thing the manor had ever offered her. And while she didn't feel the same way she used to about him (stupid in love) it wasn't like she wasn't appreciative. Or that she didn't care.

“I'm not the same terrified little girl you need to protect anymore. I've changed.”

“I know you have…” She dared to glance at his face and found some part of her aggression instantly melting, he was smiling softly at her, reminecent of their time at the manor and yet not quite the same.

“I'm… proud of you. You know?” He choked out, something that surprised even himself. He looked down for a moment, thinking more about his words before meeting her eyes again.

“You don't need me anymore, and yeah that hurt for awhile. But… I am proud.”

V had to look away, feeling something bittersweet crawl up her throat. She wasn't about to cry was she?

“I just wish you didn't feel like you had to close yourself off. I do miss talking to you.”

This conversation had gone a very different direction then either of them expected, and it was probably the longest one they'd had in a very long time.

V didn't have a response for that, at least not one that wouldn't completely ruin any semblance of self respect she had. But she didn't want to just say nothing. It had been nice… to hear that from him.

“I don't need that from you.” She said, aggression trying and failing to lace her voice. His face fell a little, and she felt the pang of guilt hit her harder than usual.

“But me too.” She said softly, and N couldn't help but smile. For a moment just a moment, he heard that sweet girl from the manor again, the one who's eyes lit up whenever she saw him and he'd spent many nights huddled under a blanket with, reading a stolen book from the library.

They made eye contact and V found herself blushing, not because of any lingering feelings, but because she'd been vulnerable and was still vulnerable and she didn't like it.

He warily opened his arms, silently asking if she wanted a hug. It wasn't the usual, “please hug me, I like you.” Kind she'd come to expect from him either, it was… more familial, less urgent.

Maybe that was why she crawled toward him and accepted, wrapping her arms around him loosely. She remembered being wrapped in his arms before, it had made her feel so safe. And it still did. Just… not in the same way.

“I really did miss you… you still into reptiles?” He asked softly, making a genuine laugh escape her before she answered.

“Yeah.” Was all she replied with, hiding her smile by looking away. This felt good. This felt right, and it lacked the weird tension that had lingered between them for a long time.

It only took another minute before she decided that the hug had reached it's end. N would cuddle with anyone who'd let him, and so she started to back away far enough to get out of his reach, but still sat beside him.

“If it really does bother you… you can move out.”

“I might, if I do though, would you want to too?” He asked, still looking at her, thankfully he didn't look as upset, still smiling softly.

“Like… with you…? N I thought we were-”

“No. Like, just out of here, in your own apartment. Like the one Uzi has.” He clarified, without any stammering either, so he wasn't covering his ass in a unsubtle confession.

“Am I even welcome there?” She asked, pure confusion on her face.

“I mean, you go to see Lizzy all the time. Why wouldn't you be?” With that she did blush, she hadn't realized he'd noticed her gone that much. Was she gone that much?

“I guess. The tower of corpses is menacing though… think they'd let me drag some of it in?” She gave him a feral smile, both hands switched back into claws, N just looked deadpan.

“Do not.”

She laughed, taking a liking to the fact he wasn’t all fun and games now. It made him more interesting, at the very least.

“What? Are you gonna stop me? Aren't you a lovable little sweetheart who's so worried about. “Protecting Me?”” She fluttered her eyelashes at him, sealing the mock with exaggerated kissy lips.

“I swear to robo god…” He mumbled under his breath, but he was amused, and happy oh so happy that she was talking to him. And being goofy! Wasn't that a sight.

“I don't sound like that.” He complained, but he was smiling, begrudgingly. For whatever reason it didn't sting as bad as her usual mocks.

“You do. If it makes you feel better, purple thing likes that about you~” V was satisfied, N felt better and honestly, she felt closer to him then she had in a long while, so falling back into teasing the life out of him felt safe to do.

He flustered, way more than she figured he would. A golden blush appearing at the bottom of his visor. She saw him glance to the floor and he gulped.

“Oh my robo god. You have a crush on her!” She cackled, letting out a wheeze as his blush only grew, he tried to look angry again, but it only made him look pouty.

“No! I-I Don't!” He stammered out, voice cracking like the liar he was. V continued to die of laugher, using her claws to dig into the wall of the spire to hold herself up.

“W-when did you. OH haHaha. When did this happen?!”

“It just sorta happened okay!” He yelped out, looking so embarrassed she was a little concerned he would bury himself in the corpse spire.

“Figures, she's you're type.” She finished, still laughing lightly. Honestly she saw a lot of herself in Uzi (yes she did actually know her name) her fiery personality tended to make them butt heads, but the little worker had a sweet side. And that was the side she assumed he'd fallen for.

“Wait Wait, don't tell me. Is she really shy around you? Does she let you cuddle with her? Do you make her feel safe?”

He blinked, how did V-?

“HA! You totally do have a type!” She dissolved into a fit of hysterical laughter. Watching as N looked at her with wide eyes.

“What do you mean by that?” He squealed, trying to think back, the only other person he'd ever had a crush on was the one currently laughing at him. But she wasn't shy, didn't let him cuddle her, and he seriously doubted she felt any safer with him then with her own claws. So what gives?

Well… she was shy at the manor, always more soft spoken and seemed to avoid speaking when she could. Plus all the little blushing, and then… well… they did often crawl under the blankets together, sometimes falling asleep in a heap until Tessa or J woke them up. And he'd been bigger than her then… always keeping her safe.

“Oh…” Was all he said, feeling the fluster even worse now. Crap did… did he really have this specific of a type?

“Uzi isn't shy! She's determined! And fiery!” He defended himself, while also convincing himself that he wasn't that predictable.

“That's true. But how is she with you~?” She asked teasingly, as if she already knew the answer.

Soft was the first thought. Sweet was the second.

Oh come on.

“Bite me!” He yelped before clasping his hand over his mouth. Blushing furiously. If anything V howled in laughter, digital tears pouring down her visor.

“Awww. The soft boy has a thing for soft girls~” She teased again, watching as N became more and more flustered.

“V!” He shouted, so what if he did?! It didn't give her the right to tease him about it. He liked feeling soft. It was comfortable. And it wasn't like he didn't like all the other aspects of her too!

“That's not- There's other things I like about her!”

“Oh? Does she look good in a little maid outfit?”

He kinda wanted to see that.

No. Don't prove her right!

“She's really smart, and brave. She always has a plan and… she's so strong.” His voice lightened up a bit, getting lost in it for a moment.

At that V ceased her laughter a little bit, she could keep teasing him telling him that “She was all those things too.” But at this point she'd had her fun. And wasn't all that interested in listening to him swoon over her.

“Alright, Alright… You totally wanna see her in a maid outfit though.”

“V!”

Next ->

#murder drones #uzi doorman #serial designation n #serial designation v #past envy #biscuitbites #nuzi #n and uzi #V tries #N suffers #then he doesn't #look manor N and V have so much baggage I need to talk about them #Now they have sibling energy though

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ncwhereman · 1 year

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spanish holiday: a collection

Let me ask you about something else that was in the Hunter Davies book. At one point you and Brian went off to Spain. Yes. Did you… you must have... We didn’t have an affair. You never had an affair with Brian? No, not an affair. Yoko: [laughs] What were the pressures from Brian? Cyn was having a baby and the holiday was planned, but I wasn’t going to break the holiday for a baby and that’s what a bastard I was. And I just went on holiday. I watched Brian picking up the boys. I like playing a bit faggy, all that. Yoko: [laughs] It was enjoyable, but there were big rumours in Liverpool, it was terrible. Very embarrassing. Rumors about you and Brian? Oh, fuck knows—yes, yes. I was pretty close to Brian because if somebody's going to manage me, I want to know them inside out. And there was a period when he told me he was a fag and all that. I introduced him to pills, which gives me a guilt association for his death. I mean they go that way anyway. And to make him talk—to find out what he’s like. And I remember him saying, “Don’t ever throw it back in me face, that I’m a fag.” Which | didn’t. But his mother’s still hiding that. But what I hate is the way they’re all attacking Allen. And Brian was a nice guy, but he knew what he was doing, he robbed us. He fucking took all the money and looked after himself and his family, and all that. And it’s just a myth. I hate the way that Allen is attacked and Brian is made like an angel, just cause he’s dead. He wasn't, he was just a guy. Allen will go berserk when he hears all this.

John Lennon, Jann S. Wenner, Lennon Remembers, 1970

Bob had insinuated that me and Brian had had an affair in Spain. And I must have been frightened of the fag in me to get so angry.

John Lennon, 1972, Peter McCabe and Robert D Schonfeld, John Lennon—For The Record, 1984

Brian was in love with me. It's irrelevant. I mean, it's interesting and it will make a nice Hollywood Babylon someday about Brian Epstein’s sex life, but it's irrelevant, absolutely irrelevant.

John Lennon, Playboy, 1980

I was on holiday with Brian Epstein in Spain, where the rumours went around that he and I were having a love affair. Well, it was almost a love affair, but not quite. It was never consummated. But it was a pretty intense relationship. It was my first experience with a homosexual that I was conscious was homosexual. He had admitted it to me. We had this holiday together because Cyn was pregnant, and I went to Spain and there were lots of funny stories. We used to sit in a cafe in Torremolinos looking at all the boys and I’d say, ‘Do you like that one, do you like this one?’ I was rather enjoying the experience, thinking like a writer all the time: I am experiencing this, you know. And while he was out on the tiles one night, or lying asleep with a hangover one afternoon, I remember playing him the song Bad To Me. That was a commissioned song, done for Billy J Kramer, who was another of Brian’s singers.

John Lennon, Rolling Stone, 1980

Very quickly John became jumpy and on edge. He was beginning to feel trapped and it was time for him to escape but before he left he told me that Brian had asked him to go on holiday to Spain with him and he wanted to know if I objected. I must admit the request hit me like a bolt out of the blue and I really didn’t take it in properly at first but when it sank in I suppressed my true feelings and acquiesced. I was well aware that John deserved a holiday. He had just completed a tour and recording sessions. In actual fact he had never really had a holiday as such. They had all been working very hard and under great pressure since the success of Please Please Me, so I concealed my hurt and envy and gave him my blessings. He was delighted and left me a happy man. I on the other hand was left holding the baby, and what a baby. As soon as John returned from his break in Spain, fully relaxed and raring to get going again, we went together to register our son’s birth.

Cynthia Lennon, A Twist Of Lennon, 1978

Some accounts of that time claim that Brian was in love with John, which was why he wanted to manage the Beatles. I don't believe this for a second. They had a good relationship, but Brian cared for all the boys and he wanted success for the group because he thought they had something unique. Claims have been made since that Brian and John had a gay relationship. Nothing could be further from the truth. John was a hundred per cent heterosexual and, like most lads at that time, horrified by the idea of homosexuality. The bond between John and Brian was one of mutual respect and friendship. They liked and admired each other. Brian could see John's intelligence and distinctive talent. John appreciated Brian's business ability and his ambition for the group. They talked for hours and planned the group's future together. They both wanted the Beatles to be the biggest thing since Elvis, and were hell bent on making it happen.

When Julian was three weeks old, Brian invited John to go to Spain with him. John asked if I'd mind and I said, truthfully, that I wouldn't. I was preoccupied with Julian and nowhere near ready to travel, but I knew how much John needed a break where he wouldn't be recognised and could really relax. I gave them my blessing and they went off together for twelve days. It was a holiday John came to regret because it sparked off a string of rumours about his relationship with Brian. He had to put up with sly digs, winks and innuendo that he was secretly gay. It infuriated him: all he'd wanted was a break with a friend, but it was turned into so much more.

Cynthia Lennon, John, 2005

Brian and John spent so much time together, scheming and dreaming about the Beatles' future, that they seemed almost inseparable. In April 1963, John went so far as to accompany Brian on a holiday in Spain, leaving Cyn behind with their newborn son. In the absence of this decidedly odd couple, tongues began wagging all over town. I visited John at Aunt Mimi's a few days after his return to England. And when he started in about how much he had enjoyed Spain, I could hardly resist taking the piss out of him. "So you had a good time with Brian, then?" I smirked. Nudge nudge, wink wink. I was somewhat taken aback when John didn't so much as crack a smile. "Oh, fuckin' hell," he groaned. "Not you as well, Pete!" "What do you mean, not me as well?" "They're all fucking going on about it." "It's O.K., John. Don't take it so serious. I'm just joking, for Christ's sake." "Actually Pete," he said softly, "Something did happen with him one night." Now that wiped the grin right off my face. Had I even dreamed there might be any truth what soever to the rumors, I would never have made light of the subject in the first place. Still— as John surely knew— I would have stood by him, and let the rest of the world handle the business of passing moral judgment, even if he had just told me he'd committed murder. And John would surely have done the same for me. Which, after all, is what true friendship is all about. "What happened," John explained, "is that Eppy just kept on and on at me. Until one night I finally just pulled me trousers down and said to him: 'Oh, for Christ's sake, Brian, just stick it up me fucking arse then.' "And he said to me, 'Actually, John, I don't do that kind of thing. That's not what I like to do.' "'Well,' I said, 'what is it you want to do, then?' "And he said, 'I'd really just like to touch you, John.' "And so I let him toss me off." And that was that. End of story. "That's all, John?" I said. "Well, so what? What's the big fucking deal, then?" "Yeah, so fucking what! The poor bastard. He's having a fucking hard enough time anyway." This was in reference to the "butch" dockers who, on several recent occasions, had rewarded Brian's advances by beating him to a bloody pulp. "So what harm did it do, then, Pete, for fuck's sake?" John asked rhetorically. "No harm at all. The poor fucking bastard, he can't help the way he is." "No need to get so worked up," I said. "You know I don't give a shit. What's a fucking wank between friends anyway?" We then moved on to other topics, and neither of us ever mentioned the incident again. (And as far as I was concerned, the real revelation that night was not that John had "had it off" with Brian, but that he had demonstrated— albeit in his own brusque way—such genuine compassion for that most hopelessly besotted of all his many admirers.) Unfortunately, certain Liverpool acquaintances (who had no way of knowing that there was a kernel of truth to their allegations) wouldn't let John hear the end of it. All in good fun, no doubt, but John was still too enamored of his macho self-image to take lightly any inference that he was anything less than 100 percent heterosexual.

Pete Shotton, Nicholas Schaffner, John Lennon: In My Life, 1983

John told me he had had a one-night stand with Brian, on a holiday with him in Spain, when Brian had invited him out, a few days after the birth of Julian in 1963, leaving Cyn alone. I mentioned this brief holiday in the book, but not what John had alleged had taken place. Partly, I didn't really believe it, though John was daft enough to try almost anything once. John was certainly not homosexual, and this boast, or lie, would have given the wrong impression. It was also not fair on Cynthia, his then wife.

Hunter Davies, The Beatles: The Authorised Biography (updated edition, 2010)

Almost three weeks after the birth of his son—whom he had seen only a couple of times by then—he agreed to go to Spain with Brian on a private holiday, while the other three Beatles flew to the Canaries for their spring break. I don’t think John told Cynthia what he was doing—he rarely told her anything—and he certainly wouldn’t have asked her permission. When she found out, she dissolved in tears, but she was scared of John and said nothing. To say we were astonished is an understatement. Much has been made of this trip. It was sun, sand and sea—but was it also sex? John himself said he finally allowed Brian to make love to him “to get it out of the way.” Those who knew John well, who had known him for years, don’t believe it for a moment. John was aggressively heterosexual and had never given a hint that he was anything but. If it had been George, we might have believed it. George could act camp and had many homosexual friends, but John loved to say things to shock, and his sly statement was probably just another in a long line of such provocative statements. In fact, it was more in character for John to taunt Brian with promises during those long hot nights in Barcelona than to succumb. Equally, it was in Brian’s masochistic nature to enjoy being tormented, then perhaps to rush off in search of a young bullfighter. Brian adored bullfighters so much, he ended up sponsoring one. (And I think Brian would have confided in somebody if it had happened.)

Tony Bramwell, Magical Mystery Tours: My Life With The Beatles, 2014

First, he wanted to make Brian the baby’s godfather. Second, he was leaving on holiday as soon as this tour was over. He was going away with Brian—just the two of them. The other Beatles were going to the Canary Islands. This meant John wouldn’t see Cynthia for several weeks, long after she had returned home from the hospital. Cynthia lay back in the hospital bed, her head spinning. How could John go off and leave her and Julian like that, she demanded, and with Brian Epstein no less? John flared up at her. “Being selfish again, aren’t you?” he said. “I’ve been workin’ my bloody ass off on one-night stands for months now. Those people starin’ from the other side of the glass are bloody everywhere, hauntin’ me. I deserve a vacation. And anyway, Brian wants me to go, and I owe it to the poor guy. Who else does he have to go away with?” Brian and John went to Barcelona at the end of April 1963. It was a city that Brian had explored on his 1959 solo trip to Spain. He had since become a great fan of the bullfights and considered himself something of an aficionado. He took great pleasure in introducing John to the pageantry and excitement. They spent the days shopping and taking side trips. At night they toured the nightclubs. Later in the week they rented a car and drove down the coast to the glistening white town of Sitges on the Costa Brava. Each night they would sit in the candlelit cafés and watch the couples stroll by in the moonlight. Over many bottles of wine they talked candidly about Brian’s personal life. It was a great relief for Brian to finally be able to talk honestly with John. He told John that for a man who valued honesty as dearly as he did, it was a terrible burden for him to live his life a lie. “If you had a choice, Eppy,” John said, “if you could press a button and be hetero, would you do it?” Brian thought for a moment. “Strangely, no,” he said. A little later a peculiar game developed. John would point out some passing man to Brian, and Brian would explain to him what it was about the fellow that he found attractive or unattractive. “I was rather enjoying the experience,” John said, “thinking like a writer all the time: I am experiencing this.” And still later, back in their hotel suite, drunk and sleepy from the sweet Spanish wine, Brian and John undressed in silence. “It’s okay, Eppy,” John said, and lay down on his bed. Brian would have liked to have hugged him, but he was afraid. Instead, John lay there, tentative and still, and Brian fulfilled the fantasies he was so sure would bring him contentment, only to awake the next morning as hollow as before.

Peter Brown, The Love You Make, 1983 can't wait for the full fic on ao3 peter!

One story the Press certainly didn’t get at the time was that in April, in the middle of the euphoria that followed all the early success and acclaim, Brian and John went off to Spain for a holiday. So much invention and rubbish has been made of this trip by so many people since, that the truth deserves at least a brief mention. The most sensational version, of course, is that the holiday was a chance for Brian to consummate his overwhelming passion for John, which inspired him to sign the group in the first place. I’m afraid it wasn’t like that. John roared with laughter at the rumours that began afterwards. Typically, he encouraged the stories that he and Brian were gay lovers because he thought it was funny and John was one of the world’s great wind-up merchants. He told me afterwards in one of our frankest heart-to-hearts that Brian never seriously did proposition him. He had teased Brian about the young men he kept gazing at and the odd ones who had found their way to his room. Brian had joked to John about the women who hurled themselves at him. ‘If he’d asked me, I probably would have done anything he wanted. I was so much in awe of Brian then I’d have tried a night of vice-versa. But he never wanted me like that. Sure, I took the mickey a bit and pretended to lead him on. But we both knew we were joking. He wanted a pal he could have a laugh with and someone he could teach about life. I thought his bum boys were creeps and Brian knew that. Even completely out of my head, I couldn’t shag a bloke. And I certainly couldn’t lie there and let one shag me. Even a nice guy like Brian. To be honest, the thought of it turns me over.’ All the same, John was very selfish to have gone off on holiday with Brian then because it was just after Cynthia had given birth to his son Julian. John’s whole romance and marriage to Cynthia was kept a secret at the time because Brian feared the effect of publicity about one of the Beatles having a wife, let alone a family.

Alistair Taylor, With The Beatles, 2003

While Brian thought a Beatle’s image could be affected by marriage and fatherhood, his next move proved wildly indiscreet and potentially dangerous. On April 8, 1963, Cynthia gave birth to Julian, and Brian was named his godfather. Shortly afterward, Brian invited John to join him alone on a holiday in Spain. Lennon had been working hard, writing songs and touring Britain. He needed a rest, and Cynthia relished some time alone to adapt to life with a baby. John accepted and flew to Barcelona on April 28 for the twelve-day break. John made it clear to everyone that he was a woman-chaser, a hundred percent heterosexual. But it was inept of Epstein to risk the whispering that was bound to ensue from such an expedition by a manager and a solitary Beatle. It was one of the few times when Brian’s perception of public opinion faltered, for the Spanish trip fueled rumors in Liverpool of an Epstein-Lennon relationship. Paul McCartney’s theory is that “John, not being stupid, saw his opportunity to impress upon Mr. Epstein who was the boss of this group … he wanted Brian to know who he should listen to.” Lennon knew that Brian held him in awe, regarding him as a genius. On their return to Liverpool, Brian and John decided to deal with the gossip decisively. At McCartney’s twenty-first birthday party on June 18, Bob Wooler and Lennon were seen chatting together and within minutes the Beatle had pummeled the Cavern compere to the ground. “He called me a bloody queer, so I bashed his ribs in,” John later told Cynthia. Epstein, no less angry but sensing the need for repairing all wounds, physical and oral, drove Wooler to hospital for treatment of torn knuckles and for shock. Next, Epstein moved swiftly to prevent the friction from escalating. Through his solicitor friend Rex Makin he paid Wooler £200 in damages and insisted that Lennon sent him a telegram of apology. The rumors were quelled. But nothing could prevent the attack on Wooler from reaching the Daily Mirror, whose pop reporter Don Short, in a first recognition of the group’s burgeoning importance, published a back-page story headlined: “Beatle in Brawl Says: Sorry I Socked You.” Since the deaths of Epstein and Lennon, many with no access to, or observation of, both men in their lifetime have peddled the assumption that Brian and John had a sexual liaison. This is despite the lack of any evidence, despite firm declarations of John’s heterosexuality from Cynthia and many other women, and despite the statement by McCartney that he “slept in a million hotel rooms, as we all did, with John and there was never any hint that he was gay.” Brian possibly had a homosexual fascination for Lennon but it could never be reciprocated. And since Epstein was not a predator, that eliminated the likelihood of such a link. More than anyone, Epstein saw the Beatles as an indivisible unit. He would never have risked so profoundly changing his relationship with them, individually or collectively. Nothing mattered more to Brian, after his devotion to his family, than the entity of the Beatles.

Ray Coleman, The Man Who Made The Beatles, 1989

Years later, John finally came clean about what had happened: not to anyone who’d been around at the time, but to the unshockable woman with whom he shared the last decade of his life. He said that one night during the trip, Brian had cast aside shyness and scruples and finally come on to him, but that he’d replied, “If you feel like that, go out and find a hustler.” Afterward, he had deliberately fed Pete Shotton the myth of his brief surrender, so that everyone would believe his power over Brian to be absolute.

Norman Philip, John Lennon: The Life, 2008

I don’t actually know the truth of the John rumour. I suspected that the John trip to Barcelona was a power play on John’s part because John was a very political animal. I think John went away on that Spanish holiday because nobody went on holiday. I would have gone, anyone would have gone. A free holiday? You’re kidding. I’m there. Number two, I’m sure John took Brian aside and said, ‘Hey, you want to deal with this group, I’m the guy you deal with, OK.’ John was that kind of guy. He was a very sensible, very pragmatic guy. So I’m sure that was the main reason John went there. As to whether there was any sort of gay dalliance or whatever, I don’t know. All I can ever say about it is that I slept with John a lot because you had to, you didn’t have more than one bed – and to my knowledge John was never gay.

Paul McCartney, Debbie Geller, In My Life: The Brian Epstein Story, 2000

Brian Epstein was going on holiday to Spain at the same time and he invited John along. John was a smart cookie. Brian was gay, and John saw his opportunity to impress upon Mr Epstein who was the boss of this group. | think that's why he went on holiday with Brian. And good luck to him, too — he was that kind of guy; he wanted Brian to know whom he should listen to. That was the relationship. John was very much the leader in that way, although it was never actually said. So there was the homosexual thing — I'm not sure John did anything but we certainly gave him a lot of grief when he got back.

Paul McCartney, The Beatles Anthology, 2000

My sense of the trip to Barcelona is that it was an intriguing situation because John left his wife to go on this holiday, who was still in hospital having given birth to her first child. So it was an extraordinary thing, but John wanted to go on holiday with Brian and there was a great bond between them. John knew that Brian was going and he also knew that Brian was very attracted to him and I think this intrigued John. My understanding only comes from Brian. I never discussed this with John but I heard that there were lots of discussions about the business of homosexuality and Brian’s homosexuality. But I think it’s wrong to discuss something which is really rather significant when I only know one side of the picture.

Peter Brown, Debbie Geller, In My Life: The Brian Epstein Story, 2000

It had nothing to do with advancement of career. John knew that he already had Brian as an ally; he knew that Brian liked him, was attracted to him and stimulated by his intellect. Anyway, I don’t believe John was that manipulative. And the idea of going along with it, and trying to take advantage of it, just wouldn’t have been Brian’s way.

Peter Brown, Norman Philip, John Lennon: The Life, 2008

It was during the same discussion that he told me that he and John Lennon had been lovers. Now that’s too much for me to take on. We’d never talked about his personal life before, so I left the room.

Lonnie Trimble, Debbie Geller, In My Life: The Brian Epstein Story, 2000

#mostly just for me to have it in one place :)#might add more if i dig something up #he was 100% heterosexual #but he 'encouraged stories about them being gay lovers.... because he thought it was funny'....................#(all straight people do that don't they?)#but he beat bob up for insinuating they were #but then again what's a fucking wank between friends anyway???#brian epstein #john lennon #jb #quote #ref #m

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katherinearandez · 11 months

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I don’t think Tessa is one of the good guys

I have a lot of questions about Tessa. What are her goals? Is she really on copper 9 for the reasons she told us in episode 6? Does she have hidden motives, and if so, what are they???

The lines of “morality” in this show are super squiggly, so by “good guy”, I mean an individual with positive or helpful intent toward the main characters - in this case, drones. The concept of Tessa bearing ill-intent for drones as a ‘species’ seemed contradictory at first: after all, she’s so nice to N, V and J, right? We’re talking about someone who, as a kid, saved zombie drones from the dump(cough, mass grave, cough) where their human owners left them to rot after creating them by means of improper disposal. Why would she want to kill drones? Especially in the same callous, procedurally improper ways that created the threat of Cyn to start out with?

Well…

Let’s not forget about the evil AI that massacred her family and the guests of their gala. AFTER Tessa took her in as an act of kindness, against her parents wishes. Parents who did seem to look down on her pretty severely, regularly chained her up in her room as punishment(you don’t install heavy duty, floor anchored chains for the occasional time out) and possibly kept her socially isolated???

That last point is pretty speculative, since a lot about the earth of N’s flashbacks screams post-apocalyptic vibes. Maybe there just aren’t a lot of humans left for Tessa to socialize with. Tessa’s dad reinforces this idea in his speech by listing “currently being alive” as an attribute the Elliots are known for. It could just as well be a meta joke(since they are killed in the next few seconds), so lacking more context, I hesitate to extrapolate from this point alone.

Anywho, back to Tessa’s callous drone murder. Even if her parents were crappy by the usual standards, she clearly didn’t want them/the other gala guests to die. She tried to save them by “murdering her a robo-child”. Idk, does this blacked out redacted image of Tessa in the aftermath of the massacre seem upset??

Reasonable assumption. So adult/older teen Tessa has changed the way she feels about drones after these traumatic events. Maybe she doesn’t outright hate them, but she views them from a colder, more pragmatic angle than she did in her younger years. Does she still feel empathy for them and the horrible mistreatment they suffer at the hands of humans? Probably. But she’s now aware of the danger they truly pose and has good reason to eliminate them to ensure the absolute solver mutation no longer has a pool of hosts in which to spread and evolve.

So why the callous drone murder at the end of episode 3? We know you’re supposed to follow a 2 step procedure for decommissioning drones. Software death via lethal injection of a kill program(sounds fun!), followed by hardware death via “core removal” to ensure the decommissioned drone doesn’t reboot with corrupted software and an “increased chance for future errors”.

Did she hastily kill this random drone to keep her arrival on copper 9 secret, foregoing procedure for the sake of urgency? If so, who is she keeping her presence secret from? Is it the remaining drone population of copper 9, who Cyn used to collapse the planet core and kill all humans there? Possibly, Uzi is a prime example of anti-human sentiment, and during Mr Doorman’s parent-teacher conference he mentioned being on a “kill all humans kick when he was her age”. Perhaps Tessa assumes all the c9 worker drones are hostile to humans.

When you start making assumptions about what characters are assuming, it’s generally a good time to stop and just accept you don’t have the answers 🫠 so that’s where I will cut that line of questioning short. That being said, I’m not quite done yet…

What’s with this shelf of small human skulls in Tessa’s room? Why are the trash robots she “rescues” her only friends? Do her parents chain her up in her room because they suck? Or… do they have reasons not yet revealed to us, the audience?

Tessa’s perception among most of the fan base is fairly positive and on the surface there’s good reason for this. She’s presented as peppy, compassionate(except toward that one worker drone, lmao), ~tenacious~ and resilient. Actions like salvaging drones from the dump and perceived displays of affection and warmth for the disassembly drones leave viewers with the impression that she’s a good, kind person.

There is, however, another light in which to view her actions, and it casts a shadow on the motives we may have assumed were pure up to this point.

While it’s easy to parse Tessa saving drones from the dump as an act of altruism, it can also be interpreted as sinister. It could be an example of a character with a savior complex; a power dynamic wherein the “savior” exerts control over those they “rescue” by taking advantage of their gratitude and using it in manipulative ways. If this is the case, Tessa’s motives take a sharp left turn, flipping from selfless and kind to egotistical and controlling.

The show actually gives us direct evidence of Tessa using manipulation to get her drones to do her bidding.

“It wants paid time off…”

This instance of her using corporate buzzwords to drive J into a rage strong enough for her to bite through metal chains. Or how about her outright lying to the drones at the start of episode 6? Asserting that her intention was to “burn to the ground” labs Cyn was interested in, while later that same episode revealing to N that her “true” purpose was to obtain a list of drones infected with the absolute solver?

Preeetty manipulative. She manipulated and/or coerced Doll as well, in order to obtain the keybug. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if come episode 7, she switches it up yet again, revealing a new manipulation or perhaps, finally, her real mission.

Tessa’s manipulation of the drones she supposedly cares about isn’t the only hint that she might have a savior complex or similar egocentric tendencies. She’s also shown that she’s not very respectful of the drones autonomy, another red flag that can signal a propensity for narcissism and the controlling behaviors associated with it.

N is the example this time.

Tessa’s signature greeting for N, which is to grab his face and swing him around with excitement that borders on aggression. Maybe it’s just me, but his expression doesn’t suggest it’s mutually enjoyed. Looks more to me like he’s uncomfortable and only humoring her pep because he feels like he has no choice… after all, none of Tessa’s “dumpster pets” want to let down their saving grace.

We see this same kind of contact again throughout episode 6, with Tessa grabbing N’s face as a greeting again, and also playing with his hair on the way down to cabin fever labs. The way Tessa interacts with the drones(J and V as well as N) shows that she sees them as objects in her possession, rather than friends, peers or their own individuals with unique thoughts, wants and feelings.

Uzi even calls her out on this very mindset at the end of episode 6 after Tessa asks her sardonically to “don’t date my robot, please.”

Granted, I’ve got no solid backing, just observation, speculation and a suspicious mind. Tessa could be a great person… “good” or “bad” though, she’ll definitely try to kill our main character sometime soon, so… yup. Killing even an anti-hero typically slots you into the bad guy category, even in a show where the moral lines between good and evil are so artfully blurred.

TLDR; I think there’s more to Tessa than meets the eye, and even though Cyn is still probably Murder Drones “big bad”, I feel like Tessa has an element of villainy to her that I hope will be further explored in canon.

#murder drones #uzi doorman #tessa james elliot #theory #serial designation n #serial designation j #serial designation v

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bluginkgo · 6 months

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Episode 7 Teaser is out and it gave me too many crack theories

Well, after finally getting my head wrapped around the entire teaser- which took literal hours to process how amazing it all looked- I think I finally found the ability to put it into words.

Spoilers, duh and uh lots of words, so sorry

This'll be somewhat frame by frame crack down as well as crack theories that came to me while spending time looking at the red images too long that gave me a headache - anyways

As many have mentioned this before, V's corpse is gone, and only a sentinel's tail remains on the ground to the right. Although I wish to believe that V made it out alive, that hope is quickly dwindling. Although there is a small possibility that V somehow won the fight (perhaps with outside help such as J) and dragged herself away (based off of the splatter on the ground) I more so think that she turned into an eldritch V. That or perhaps has been mauled by the sentinels, and the body was dragged off. Although, I can not wait for Liam to prove me wrong about this theory (I hope he proves me wrong, cause I miss V ;w;)

The ground looking hall seems to be where the gang will enter right after exiting the elevator. Alongside this, it seems that the moment with N is also here (based on the background). Now, as for the look that N gives. It goes from worried and slightly scared to harsh concern (in my opinion, feel free to take that thought and yeet it as far as you wish ^_^). Something made him worry in a way that also slightly flared his anger. Two theories:

He saw something ahead of them, and this is the more likely possibility, because that tunnel gives way to the cave that N seems to have been dragged into from the teaser from November.

2. Uzi might have said something that made him more concerned. There is a figure that moves behind N, but it is very hard to see as to who it is- my guess it's Tessa, making Uzi the only candidate to possibly to walk in front of them.

Then we get to see this hole.

Possibility (also a bit wacky and highly unlikely): The entity will finally be revealed, that is, the center of the absolute solver. Something I noticed with the design of the absolute solver is that we get to see its limbs, but never the main body. It is always hiding somewhere, be it in the ceiling or the walls. Of course, there are also the eldritch forms we saw of Cyn, but in my opinion, it feels more like another limb. Now, with J's huge form, I'm a little more inclined to believe that's what it looks like as the main body. Holo spooky snake crab like.

Not to be dramatic, but... Core collapse, which made me chuckle. Because despite all hell breaking loose in these last couple episodes, Murder Drones still manages to sneak in tiny jokes like this. Oh, and I can't forget the dog too! XD

Something I still cannot grasp my head around is what is going on with the environment around the cathedral?? It's raining, but it's in a cave- ok can be sorta explained that it acts like a stalactite... but then what is going on with the vortex around the building? My current theory: uhhh... robo-satan, that is all.

A lot of scenes with humans and in a clear view (i.e. not like a video tape). This might suggest a flashback as many have already mentioned it. However, who, how, and why is there a flashback? Well, there is one crack theory I came up with. This is what Uzi is seeing. She is an absolute solver host, and it has been seen on multiple occasions that absolute solver has a hivemind, so it can easily show its hosts whatever memories its previous hosts had.

These next scenes I believe to be in the progression as shown.

@/haastera (don't want to bother them with a tag) also pointed this out, that these scenes may be back to back, based off of the lamp that is off to Uzi's left. However, what the heck would cause Uzi to snap like she did in ep4?

Uzi saw something in the tape that made her upset, the possibility of N killing Nori. Cons in that theory: N killed Nori post core collapse, and there would not be any evidence of it.

The tape had something that was similar to zombie drones tape that was marked "Don't show this to drones, they will not like it." Something in the tape may have forced boot the solver string in Uzi, and she was powerless to stop it. Cons: @bloodywolfwings mentioned to me that the reflection in Uzi's visor seems to be a door instead of a screen. So there's also the 50% chance that these two scenes are not even related.

MA'AM YOU PUT THAT SWORD AWAY, UZI HAS IT BAD ENOUGH MA'AM- in all seriousness, this is a 50/50 shot once again. Maybe Tessa is attempting to get rid of Uzi while N is gone. The opposite end of that is Tessa is attempting to help Uzi, perhaps an enemy that Uzi did not sense behind her.

These two scenes are related, I believe- the claw is hard to see behind the cross, but it is there, and not to mention that Dr. Chambers is wearing a camera on his head. However, there's more to it after I stared at it for a while. The absolute solver claw appears to be burning and glitching, this is only seen with DDs and solver drones when they are exposed to the sun. Perhaps the humans were slowly getting better at controlling the absolute solver, with some sort of power equivalent to the sun. But in the end, their efforts were useless, seeing as Nori still destroyed everything there.

We have seen these two scenes already, so not much to dissect here. Just NUzi being NUzi :3 while all hell breaks loose

This scene had me so confused at first.

I could not figure out what was going on with the cars. Cars are outside, our gang is in a cathedral, what happened- That's it. This is outside. And as many have already mentioned this, there are drones in the background so far identified as Lizzy and perhaps Thad. (I say perhaps Thad because my dumb brain won't let go of the idea that the drone on the left is Khan. Look, my brain said 'I think I see a mustache' and now I can't unsee it.) Either way, this is outside and the gravity has decided to take a break (as RedMage put it in the nuzi discord server). It seems that the gang will do something, or something drastic will happen (perhaps a second core collapse) that will cause the gravity of copper-9 to become unstable. So maybe the episode will end with the possibility that copper-9 is about to collapse like Earth did, as the gang tries to stop that event from happening.

Ahem, allow me a second of: FERAL N FERAL N FERAL N FERAL N- ok, I'm done for now. As many have pointed out, this may be the moment that N killed Nori, and Uzi might have to relive through that experience as the absolute solver shows Uzi everything that has happened up until now. His smile is not the one we've seen up until now when he's in his murder drone mode, but more of a smirk. Another theory I came up with is that when Uzi becomes possessed by the absolute solver, perhaps by default, N does too. Uzi is now N's admin, and if the admin is corrupted, there is nothing to keep N's solver string in his ai from fully corrupting him. However, there's a hole here.

The X on the visor generally means that there is a string in the drone's core is faulty and not functioning. This is because when the solver string attempts to take possession of the DDs, the admin program switches it to false and gives the faulty os string sign on the visors. That has to mean the admin program is still up and running, which pushes the theory of this scene being a flashback of N killing Nori, more likely.

Uzi's eye has burst, it seems, just like Yeva's. So now the question is, why does it do that? Doll also covered her eye, perhaps to conceal the damage that is already there. Theory: this happens because the solver inside of the drones is constantly attempting to get out of the host. It has been seen that it does destroy the bodies from ep5. And it seems that the red goop is what Uzi's attempting to hold back on her eye. It might be oil, but what makes me believe otherwise is the fact that it doesn't look liquid-like enough. Granted, that scene is literally 1 second, so the movement that may be there is really hard to grasp.

Doll HAS MADE A RETURN! And she's fighting someone with knives is what it seems like. Thoughts on who it might be? Literally, anyone in the gang, there is not much to go off of here. But to dissect it further, it could be like this:

Uzi- because she teamed up with Tessa and a DD, and it seems like Doll and the gang have separate goals, which upsets Doll and causes the fight.

N- another DD that had caused a lot of pain and suffering for WD when they first arrived to copper-9. So why not get rid of him as well while she's at it.

Tessa- the main character that seems to be very suspicious about every action. We know very little about her, and even more so what happened to her post gala massacre. Perhaps Tessa discloses the idea of killing every drone that is on the list of the drones experimented on. This will include Yeva and, therefore, Doll.

Now as for THIS.

That is a drone, for certain, now as to who it is, is really hard to guess. There is clearly a helmet on the drone, so it kinda narrows it down. Routes:

This is part of a flashback:

Nori or Yeva- one of the stronger solver drones that needed a better way of controlling/containing them. Backed up by the balconies/cat walks that are on the corners of the screen.

Some other poor drones- An even crazier idea of mine would be that the people were, in fact, worshipping the absolute solver. This is what happens to the heretics. Either that, or this was some sick way of worshipping the solver.

This is real-life time: Doll is the number 1 candidate, how she got to be like this, though... there are some possibilities.

Doll's solver form is taking control/form.

Uzi and Doll had a fight (consciously or not, solver might have forced a fight), with this being the outcome.

It's late for me. The amount of crack theories that have been bouncing around in my head is unreal. More than half of them are probably most likely wrong. Once again, take all of my theories and yeet them into the stratosphere if you wish ^_^ These will be mostly here just to come back to and see how wrong I was about everything.

#murder drones #murder drones n #murder drones uzi #murder drones v #murder drones j #murder drones doll #murder drones nori #murder drones yeva #murder drones theory #bluginkgo's rambles/theories #murder drones ep 7 #murder drones absolute solver

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watercat678 · 19 days

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I know a lot of people probably think Cyn and the AS are different, but here’s my two cents on this.

i also used to believe that but now I dont, or at least I dont believe AS is in control.

Mainly because the version of Cyn we constantly see is the only one we’ve ever seen, and before you bring up her at the start of 5, I’ll get to that as well.

The only time its said AS and Cyn are different comes from “Tessa” who is already unreliable due to her being Cyn.

If someone else, like Nori, said they were different then I would believe it, but I dont. Before you go and use the credits as an excuse, keep in mind even in episodes where they call it the solver, the characters refer to her as Cyn, and Im more inclined to use their idea.

now lets talk about AS, AS is just a program, simple as that. A mutated and dangerous program but a program nonetheless. AS helps Cyn at the beginning of 5 with some interesting dialogue.

However, the way it says this implies to me its just stating what it has observed that Cyn went through after being killed by the Elliots (presumedly). Because Cyn passes the percentage check for a mutation and reviving (a zombie drone can occur without a mutation, N V and J are evidence of this), it means she now has access to AS, and because AS is just a program, it gives her a choice.

However, Cyn doesnt know that she’ll likely revive anyways even if she said no, so she probably chose yes out of desperation. Because of this, AS gives her its powers, and Cyn quickly becomes adapt at using the solver and begins to get horrible ideas in her head based on the way the humans treated her.

Cyn can feel emotions, but in a slightly different way from normals drones/humans. For ex. Cyn does care about N, but more so as a toy it can use for her amusement, beyond that Cyn probably does not see N as a person, and will kill anyone who tries to take her toy and get to close to it, (Tessa, V, Uzi).

However, despite the solver being a program, it can still do things, even go so far as to take control of a DD when Cyn is busy playing “dress up”. We now come to EJ.

The solver follows any order given to it by Cyn, plus, since the DDs have a downgraded version of the solver, The Solver will attempt to repair the hosts under the orders of the dominant host (Cyn). Basically, EJ is what the solver would be like if it was actually in control and it wasn’t Cyn, which also explains why it refers to themself as though there is many of it.

You can choose to not believe me, but I’ve been seeing a lot of the whole Cyn being in Uzi’s tail means N is dating his sister, or people who just want to believe Cyn is innocent and I just wanted to provide an explanation. N would still not be dating Cyn though, because

N and Cyn arent related

Only Cyn called N a brother, but she never actually viewed him as one.

Plus, if Cyn and the AS are different, that would mean Cyn never had a character and basically wouldn’t exist, and theres no fun in that.

#murder drones #murder drones theory #murder drones cyn

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bigtittiecomitte · 24 days

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What are your thoughts on this video?? This was recommend to me and I watched it and I didn't really care for it..maybe it's just me but it feels like this person seems more salty about V not getting together with N instead of giving actually criticisms of why he didn't like the finale, in fact I've seen most people act act this way when it comes to the finale..it's been mixed since it released and more people have lately been finding reasons to find Nuzi *Problematic* and a bad ship with saying the whole N is dating is "sister" (Cyn) because of Uzi and the solver being in one together in the same body even though that's NOT the case!! Idk, part of the reasons I was never able to fully ship Envy was because of some of the toxic fans and V fans and how they treated Uzi as a character..even after the finale Uzi is still getting undeserved mistreatment and hate and it's truly unfortunate. People need to see and realize that although Nuzi is canon people are still allowed to ship whatever they want canon or not, and just because Nuzi is canon doesn't mean anybody can be a dick and jackass. People also shouldn't be sending threats to Liam and Glitch because of the finale, yes the finale was flawed but that doesn't make it okay to to doxx or hass the studio or creator, MD is Liam's show and he should allowed to do whatever he wants with this show, I've said this in my own post but I think many in this fandom truly took this show for granted and didn't really deserve it..although I'm grateful for Murder Drones and will forever cherish it as it's my comfort show, this fandom is truly a mess and I know that's all fandoms..but the MD community is just so toxic and I wished it was a much better and healthier fanbase. :(

https://youtu.be/mQ5xnKYHGoc?si=6bSwQpiPV10beX-b

I saw the video and holy fuck Media Literacy is DEAD

I’m all for hearing people’s opinions but it really does piss me off when people just start saying crap without properly understanding the characters they’re talking about

For anybody not wanting to check out the video, basically the guy is saying that N and V should’ve gotten together and N and Uzi should’ve just stayed friends or even have a “sibling dynamic” (pretty much stuff we’ve already heard before lol). The issue is that if you have been watching the show with your two eyes you would know that N and V getting together in the end would actually be WORSE for N and V

N and V’s relationship is very catered to the past, present and future. In the past, N and V had a thing for each other in the manor (maybe even dated) then we have the present where N and V are now genocidal robots with the intent of killing worker drones for oil. N still has a crush on V prior to meeting Uzi while V tries to protect her and N by continuing on their path of death due to her trauma of Cyn and everything that happened in the manor, she tries pretending to forget his name and hides secrets from him, which makes him upset and lash out on her. Then we cut to the future, N and V are now friends and living in the bunker with the rest of the worker drones, they’re healing but they’re doing alright now that there’s finally no hiding secrets from one another

The problem with a lot of people complaining that Envy should have been canon instead is the fact that their entire relationship throughout Murder Drones is all about moving on and the fact that not all romantic relationships end with them being happy together. N and V could never have what they had in the manor again because not only have they moved on from each other but they’re also building up their platonic relationship brick by brick. N and V were never proper friends and never got the chance to rekindle until Uzi came along, which another thing I want to talk about

I see so many people hating on Uzi for being the reason as to why N and V didn’t become endgame but if it wasn’t for Uzi. N and V would’ve never ended up where they are today like if they never met Uzi then they would just end up killing all the worker drones and dying after all the oil is gone, N and V wouldn’t even get to rekindle their relationship because it would be stuck to how it was before Uzi came along. The reason as to why Nuzi became endgame and not Envy wasn’t because Liam favoured one ship than the other but because N and Uzi were actually communicating. They were friends and understood each other’s trauma and feelings, which is what made them work. N and V didn’t have that until N lashed out on her and she got her character growth

The only part I can somewhat agree with is that we should have seen V apologise to the real N (she did apologise but it was to a fake N instead) but I’m at least happy that real N was there to know that she was being sincere with her words. They’re all traumatised characters, none of them deserved what they went through

He says that Uzi should’ve stopped having a crush on N which leads to N and V getting together and I just full on stopped the video because how are you seeing the interactions between N and Uzi and thinking that Uzi should have just stopped having a crush on him when N’s feelings for her were also the same, them not being canon would have actually made no sense because of all the moments we had got of them, hell even them implied to be dating in Episode 7 lol. N and V getting together in the end would have been way more rushed than the ship of what some envy shippers actually claim to be rushed

Not only that but him calling V “jealous” of N and Uzi being in love because apparently that’s what she wanted with N, like hell did V tell you that? She’s happy for them even if she doesn’t look like it (I mean I don’t like seeing couples in public either lol)

Nuzi being canon doesn’t mean you have to stop shipping other ships that you find better and it’s totally ok to be disappointed that Envy wasn’t the main ship. But it doesn’t give people the right to just make fake screenshots of Liam’s twitter and blaming Nuzi shippers for the reason as to why Nuzi became canon (apparently we all did a meeting and pay for Nuzi to be canon lmao). Remember that fanfiction and fanart exist my dudes, support your local AU’s too

Basically Envy is a very tragic ship and it was always written that way and guys please stop mischaracterising V it hurts

#murder drones

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kit-kat-jo · 26 days

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My Murder Drones Finale Analysis... 2/2 - 1/2

jesus, imagine getting your entire life force RIPPED out your body, and being able to look back at it. i feel like this is only a taste of what the dissassembly drones went through during transformation.

uzi desperately trying to scoop her core back into her gaping open chest will haunt me for life, i think. and her hands haven't regenned yet, leaving her to scramble even more. absolutely. horrific. probably gonna be the most gruesome moment in this series for me altogether. didn't even notice N getting yoinked away there lol

this whole sequence as well… we, or N starts hearing a second voice while she repeats “let me in,” but who is it?? the actual cyn? one thing i know for sure though, is here is where N starts to get his past flashbacks, specifically of being torn apart and transformation. fuuuucked. up

i realize now that Uzi’s protecting her core from Cyn’s callback pings in all the times she’s grabbing at her chest, but at first i really thought she was terrified of losing her core again. which: UNDERSTANDABLE GIRLIE!! MY heart?? broke.

so, N did see the actual Cyn while he got tore open. and now he’s having proper trauma flashbacks and getting back bits and pieces. this absolutely breaks my heart, seeing how desperately panicked he gets, watching memories of what i’m only assuming is V being transformed. my sweet baby. for a moment i thought for sure he was going into a full panic attack. it’s a good thing hand holding pulled him out of a full on episode, but i think this man deserves a nice big breakdown after everything to process all the shit he’s been through. pretty sure V needs the same thing, having held onto these memories a whole lot longer. post series group therapy sesh?

i think i'm gonna hear CALLBACK PING in my nightmares, actually.

AND THIS IS WHERE I FUCKING CRY!!! after everything, after learning J was never on their side, V breaks. she needs to let everything out in the open to N. her apology and genuine emotion is so, so important to me… she LOVES him! always did! and it fucking hurt to have to hide like she did, only for it to all be a trick! she wanted to be honest with him this whole time, but she was so scared! she felt like she HAD to resort to acting resentful towards him and pushing him away! it gets me so, so bad.

and then N sacrifices his own safety to save her.

also teefs.

sorry

oh god. when V realizes that she’s only led N to his death… and that this long ago promise was only one big trick… everything falls down around her. she desperately grasps at being able to fix this. she blames herself. as Eternal Dream plays in the background… it was always their song, man. it was always V singing to N. so many of the lyrics fucking HURT now, putting it into this bittersweet context.

“let my body keep you warm, let my essence be your breeze, can you hear me calling? please look out for me. can you set me free?” it was always a love letter to N. (platonically. i see it platonically, better yet, in a sibling way.) the wishes she had for him to know everything. for them to be together. for her to not have to hide. to go home, to be set free from her neverending dream. it’s all so horrible and lovely and poetic to me. she deserves everything. they deserve everything.

and then her expressions as Cyn’s about to eat N’s heart, agonizingly slowly, staring her straight in the eyes so mockingly to pour salt in the colossal gaping wound. HEGGDHHSGSGGH💔

on a side note, i find it so interesting how, seemingly, a drone’s core magnetically gets yanked back to the body as soon as it gets a tiny chance. very ehm… helpful.

bi uzi tho. QUEEEEEEN PROUD OF HER FOR COMING OUT 💜

“glad you’re not dead or whatever.” waaaahahahh. they care for each other. bwuhuhuhh.

here, howd she stop letting the callback ping effect her….? just from being cringe and free?…. queen i guess?

also, she can effectively control the solver without cyn making it go crazy anymore. is this a result of just practicing and gaining more control over it? she’s just built different? or another plot hole? shrug noise. i said i was oddly okay with the plot holes, so that stands true here too.

nori already flinging herself into mom mode with her terms of endearment had me CRYING BRO!!! development!! she went from “i caused every horror in her life,” i gotta stay away from her, to HELL YEAH THAT’S MY DAUGHTER, KICKING ASS!! mom of the year ❤️

the entire fight scene was SO GOOD!!! i need AJ Dispirito’s “Bite Me” song injected into my bloodstream RIGHT NEOOWW!!

i’m obsessed with seeing them hold hands to calm each other down after a moment that affects one of them. it’s my favorite thing. we came so far from episode 6…… wipes tear

the lyrics focused on these two here is interesting to me… V saying to let her go, Uzi saying she’s not worth saving… either i’m looking too deep into it or OUCH GUYS NOOHOHO, MY SWEETIES

this had to be giffed. also, i love these scenes breaking the immersion several times and showing that all this time the nightcore is just playing through uzi’s ipod in the distance. absolutely genius.

i’ll admit, i was so confused from the black hole scene at first. but now i understand somewhat. after uzi grabbed her core and formed a [null,] she essentially had cyn’s life force. all those times she got away by turning herself into a black hole and floating off... that was essentially HER. in the void here, cyn had to try and get it back to come back to the living, like a drone putting their core back in their chest but in a weird, eltrich cyn way, i guess? instead of her core, its the manifestation of the solver itself? cyn’s and tessa’s bodies are so far gone, that all that’s left is the solver? and as soon as uzi saw what was happening, she knew she couldn’t have it back.

she fucking eated it…. homph. that was not on cyn’s bingo card. the eyes are HILARIOUS

awwwww husband wife reunion! she is so uzi’s mother.

and now, before we get into the end of things, my vizzy propaganda. not only did lizzy KNOW that v wasnt dead, and distracted j for her, but now, in @ottterpops' words, the sentinel is just like the pet she doesn’t want. its her and v’s daughter now, it’ll grow on her for sure : )

and now, my chosen video! :D

EVERYTHING about this scene, N calling for her, the HUG, him squeezing the LIFE out of her, her noises of getting choked and giggling, sent arrows straight through my heart, THEYRE SUCH CUTIES AAUHHHHG!! n spinning her around and throwing her in the air, her tackling v, ugh! THEY GOT THEIR HAPPY LITTLE ENDING!

she’s a fucking mary sue guys, ohhhh my lord. the eyes are so so cool though, they literally look like a sunset. she is living her best mary sue life now, jesus christ. she deserves it ❤️

uzi, uzi my beloved. she feels like a dear, dear friend, my sweet little emo who goes through the horrors and comes out of it with all her unhinged goofy cringe. i love her so, so much, and i’m SO fucking proud of these three. they deserve the happiest little life together.

and lastly, end credits!!! during the series rewatch, my friends and i joked that the finale should involve n getting to play a game of cards with everyone. and HAHA SKFHSJCKSJDHDJS

oh they’re def watching a scary movie… look at the way they hold onto each other, i’m done 😭😭 if i redraw anything, it’s gonna be this first tbh.

i ran out of space for images again, but! the solver still being alive in uzi is so good, she’s gonna be a real pain in the ass… the implications this brings up is so fun to think about, ugh the possibility for spinoff series is crazy! i’ll be waiting with baited breath for more content from glitch, whatever it may be! i’ll be happy!

alright, this is probably the longest frickin post i’ve ever made. but god, did i love this show. i’m so grateful my friend got me into it, and i can’t wait to continue loving it, rewatching it and messing with my stories for as long as that’s gonna last.

thank you Murder Drones, Glitch, and Liam Vickers. now to waste money that i don’t have on merch!! 💫

#murder drones #md #uzi doorman #serial designation n #murder drones finale #serial designation v #serial designation j #cyn #tessa james elliot #liam vickers animation #glitch productions #series analysis #GOD im gonna miss these guys!! what a lovely lovely experience #mwah mwah mwah

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the-lost-lights · 16 days

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The Fixer Drone AU: Mini Update 1

(A follow up of THIS POST about my Fixer Drone AU)

Sorry for the delay but writer’s block is a bitch. Anyway I was planning to make another big post with lots of info about my AU but I’ve decided to downsize it in the first (possibly) in a series of small updates of this AU, adding a few info about the characters, some story bits and some random stuff.

Anyway, let’s start the show!

Tessa

She doesn’t sleep. EVER. She doesn’t even have a sleep mode function. This is because, before the Absolute Solver removed her capacity to sleep, every time she did that memories of her past tended to emerge, causing her to experience a notable amount of emotional distress and loosening the control the AS had on her. The lack of sleeping made her even more unstable than before but she’s fine with that since Cyn claims that’s for her own good.

Her head is 100% indestructible. You can hit it with a nuke and it wouldn’t be damaged by the explosion. This is because it stores her brain, left uncorrupted by the Absolute Solver, and if it ever got damaged or destroyed Tessa would die since her body lacks a core. She doesn’t know that and instead thinks that’s because she has a special, one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable custom-made core personally made by Cyn.

MPD

As some people correctly guessed they’re Tessa’s horrible parents, merged into an undying abomination in constant pain. They’re still aware of what happened to them and really want to kill Tessa not much for what she did to them but more for the fact that she allowed a Worker Drone (Cyn) to take over their company.

They’re the only “person” working under Tessa that’s aware of the existence of the Absolute Solver, albeit they think that’s a human JCJenson worker that’s secretly working against Cyn. The AS promised them to let them kill Tessa but in exchange they would have to keep an eye on her and her assistants for some undisclosed reason….

Story Bits

I’m currently writing about Uzi’s first day at work: it starts with Tessa giving her a visit to the lab, letting her meet her coworkers N, V and J and giving her her first job: recovering an intact core drone that she left somewhere in the lab. It doesn’t go very well because the quartet of Drones can barely work together and Tessa forgot to add Uzi to the “do not kill” list of MPD.

Another idea I have it’s a short humorous story where Uzi finds out that N has a crush on V and tries to help him confess his feelings for her… And President Cyn decides to help. It’s going to be a trainwreck, especially since both Cyn and Uzi are terrible at romantic stuff and have to ask J for help in order to stop V from trying to kill N.

I have planned most of the story of this AU and I will post about it “soon” so that you’ll be able to know how the story ends in case I drop out of the fandom and decide to stop writing it.

#murder drones #murder drones au #drone tessa au #murder drones tessa #murder drones uzi #uzi doorman #murder drones j #murder drones n #murder drones v #tessa james elliot

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thatguywhodoesstuff · 7 months

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Some Unsorted Thoughts Regarding Murder Drones Episode 7 & Episode 8

Hopping back online for a moment to post a bunch of unsorted thoughts & mini-theories about the upcoming episodes:

Nori and Yeva are well and truly dead, and didn’t fake their deaths like I’ve seen others theorize. Despite this, I can picture them directly being involved with the plot via some convoluted Absolute Solver related shenanigans.

Personally, I like to think all Drones can save, edit, & transfer copies of their memories in a manner akin to saving files onto a flash drive to transfer over to another computer to be modified. This isn’t all that far fetched given how V and N’s memories were altered and how Uzi managed to help recover them.

Going off of the above points and the fact that each episode lampoons a different horror genre, I feel that we are due a good ol’ fashioned psychological thriller. I can easily imagine the under depths of the labs being loaded with all sorts of Eldritch nonsense (like those decidedly organic hands that drag off N during the trailer) that will undoubtedly push everyone to their breaking point before episode 8 even happens.

I’ve always had the long-standing theory/belief that Khan actually knows more than he lets on. I know there isn’t a lot to back this up, but it’s just something I always thought would make sense given everything he’s managed to live through.

I am of the mind that Nori was not the one to cause the core collapse that wiped out the humans on Copper-9. If anything, I think it would be neat if the core collapse was a complete accident that actually prevented/delayed the Absolute Solver from destroying Copper-9, with the event simply happening to coincide with whatever hell Nori was undoubtedly raising at the time.

I’ve seen a number of people point out how Uzi seems to be in control of herself when she grips N’s hand, and while a number of people seem to interpret this as her being mad at him for keeping secrets, I’m not convinced that’s the case. My crackpot theory is that Uzi is going to learn some hard facts about her mother and she is not going to handle them well and, with everything else going on, needs N now more than ever for emotional support, probably at the expense of his own mental well-being.

The cathedral under Cabin Fever labs was either built by Drones already under the thrall of the AS or Drones like Alice who got trapped in the facility and went insane from the experience.

As for what purpose the cathedral actually serves, I feel it could’ve an actual place of worship for the Absolute Solver, just as easily as it could be a conduit to broaden the area of influence of the malevolent “program”. Then again, it could just as easily serve as both, sort of like a giant transmitter/receiver with a decidedly gothic style to it for added flair.

There is this weird feeling in the back of my head that we won’t get a proper confrontation between the gang and Doll and, in true subversive horror fashion, something will happen to her that takes her out of the plot, at least for the rest of the season.

Part of me wonders if the reason Tessa acted so strange during episode 6 is rooted in the trauma from CYN’s massacre. After witnessing that and implicitly having been seriously injured, it wouldn’t surprise me if Tessa is poorly coping with the situation at hand. I also can’t help but wonder if she’s got a touch of robophobia directed towards Solver infected Drones.

Out of everyone, I feel that N is the least likely to perma-die in the upcoming episodes. In pretty much every horror series I’ve ever watched the nice one (when they aren’t one of the first people to die) typically lives the longest so that the narrative can torment them, regardless of whether or not they eventually earn their happily ever after. I doubt that N is any different, and I fear that his suffering has yet to begin in earnest.

Doll also doesn’t seem likely to die just yet (but given how Liam doesn’t seem all that shy about killing off major characters when needed…), and I have a feeling that if given the chance she could become a valuable ally, even if the alliance itself would be pretty unstable at best.

Of the four, Tessa and Uzi have the highest number of death flags waving around them. One has to wonder which is worse, losing an old friend who didn’t dehumanize your every action, that you just recently remembered/reunited with or losing the first friend/love you have had in a long time, who has also helped you recognize your own self worth. Either way, N is going to be crushed by the loss, especially given the likelihood of it being at his own hands.

If Tessa dies, I imagine her final moments will involve her bemoaning how N has doomed everyone… only to impart words of encouragement to him and assure him that his loving nature isn’t a weakness and may be instrumental later down the line.

If Uzi dies (I wouldn’t put it past Liam to pull this), it will be in an intense heat of the moment situation that won’t immediately register to her or N. I also think that if Uzi does die, it will only happen in a physical sense. My logic being that since Uzi became N and V’s new Administrator in episode 5, she could continue existing as a voice inside N’s head (sort of like Zane and Pixel from Ninjago), which could also result in N developing Solver powers. Alternatively, Uzi just straight up dies and N has to live with the pain of losing two of his closest friends and his first and second loves… Not to mention the fact a dead Uzi gives the Absolute Solver the perfect ammunition to use against N in the future.

TLDR: That trailer gave me a lot of thoughts and with everything going on in real life, I haven’t been able to put them into text until now. Thank you for taking the time to read the inane ravings of a burnt out college student/part time shut-in. Likes and Reblogs are greatly appreciated…

…I really hope Uzi and N kiss in the season finale.

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pleasantlyinsincere · 1 year

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John and Julian (and Cyn) through the '70s

Last edited on 8 October 2023. All edits listed at the end. Text in between [ ] are my thoughts.

Since John and Yoko had moved into Tittenhurst in August '69 Julian often spend weekends with them there.

"And then I'd live for the weekends I spent with my dad and his new love Yoko at Ascot. My feeling toward their relationship was helped by the way I was treated. I was given incredibly expansive toys to play with and there was always something happening." Julian, 1982

Cynthia describes that she was relieved that Julian got on reasonably well with Yoko, but she was concerned by some of the more bizarre stories of what was going on at Tittenhurst park.

"One of the hardest aspects of letting Julian visit John was accepting that Yoko would presumably look after him when he was there. I didn't know what he would make of her cool manner. But in fact he seemed fine with it, and perhaps it was better for him to have a rather distant step-mother than one who was all over him. He never told me that she was unkind in any way, which was a relief. After that first weekend Peter rang regularly to arrange visits for Julian. Much to my amusement Julian had started to call Yoko Hokey-Cokey." Cynthia Lennon: John, p.314

Photos of Julian at Tittenhurst in 31 January 1970. [John and Yoko only returned from Denmark January 27th, so Julian came to see them the first weekend back.]

Rest of the timeline including pics, quotes and audio behind the cut because it got ridiculously long.

23 February 1970

An article is published in the Evening Post talking about Julian and Kyoko. It mentions that in 1969 there were four months that father and son didn't get to see each other and also spent Christmas apart.

Some quotes from John:

"Julian, last time I saw him, was a bit too protected, like all kids are. It took him two weeks to unwind, when he was last with us." "I'm not a daddy with a set of bricks to play with. When I'm with the kids, they just come along with me and be with me, whatever I'm doing." Link to article

March 1970

Over the New Year John and Yoko had spent some weeks in Denmark with Tony Cox, his new partner and Kyoko. That arrangement had worked quite well and it seems it motivated John and Yoko to try to get closer with Cynthia and Roberto also. It seems in the end not much came of these good intentions.

Up until now, when Julian came to spend the weekend at Tittenhurst Park, it was Les Anthony who shuttled him back and forth between his parents. However, shortly after their return from Denmark, John and Yoko made a conscious effort to spend time with Julian, Cynthia and her fiancé Roberto Bassanini. John later remarked: "All five of us ate together and we saw to it that the children see us all together. Maybe six of us will go on vacation with Kyoko. Julian, Cyn and Roberto, so that everyone feels secure. That's very important. In order to have peace, it's necessary to start inside the family." Lennonology, source L'Express [3/23/70]

Instead John and Yoko left for LA 23 April 1970 to undergo Primal Scream therapy with Janov. They stayed for almost five months in the US and returned to England 15 September 1970.

June 7th, 1970

While John and Yoko are in LA doing their therapy with Janov. One of the topics discussed was John's troubled relationship with his son.

The meeting, which Vivian Janov describes as 'a very strong emotional day for him,' had taken place in April, and John was making an effort to maintain communication with his son. From Los Angeles, John posted a card to Julian today: 'I'm sorry I haven't called or written much. I've been a little sick. We miss you a lot, and send you our love... won't be long till I see you'. Lennonology

After the return from the US in September Julian continued to regularly visit Tittenhurst. During those visits he usually played a lot with Les Anthonys four stepchildren, who at the time were also living on the estate.

"Once Dad had a little white shed built on an island in the middle of a lake on the grounds of the house. He had bought these little white amphi-cars that sped across the lake. The three of us all dressed in white to spend the day there. Crazy, but wonderful."Julian, 1982

In this interview Julian describes going over to Tittenhurst just to be an idiot with his dad but also how scary the big house and his bedroom situation could be to him at night.

[The floorplan of Tittenhurst (LINK) actually shows Julian's room just across the hallway from John and Yoko's room but half a stairway down. There's not really a closer bedroom and he may have been put there, so that he has his own bathroom. It being so far away, small (somewhere he or Cynthia call the room a closet) and scary are after all the memories from a child's point of view.]

For the most part the visitation arrangements seemed to have continued in 1971. In the summer, when John and Yoko were filming for the imagine documentary, Julian can be seen roaming the property with his friends.

Saturday, July 17th, 1971 With the cameras rolling, John and Yoko roamed the Tittenhurst Park grounds in a golf cart with Jill Johnston. As promised, Blue Pools delivered the new lake house, and the Lennons spotted location. More footage was taken of the house under construction, the Lennons and Johnston rowing on the lake, and Julian and the neighbor children reading excerpts from Grapefruit on camera and running amok in the fields. Lennonology

Lennonology

Julian Lennon: Tittenhurst was this enormous palace-like place with 99 acres, golf-cart buggies, a lake, a little island in the middle of the lake. It was like a house of fun. It was wonderful. I loved the place.

LINK to a longer version of the quote but in German. Not adding much just both John and Julian sharing a mutual love for Dr. Pepper at the time, playing the mellotron and the children daring each other to enter a 'haunted' building on the property.

It's also at Tittenhurst that Julian meets May Pang, who had started working for John and Yoko as an assistant through ABKCO in NY and had come to England as a messenger to bring film rolls.

"There were a lot of great moments at Tittenhurst that I do fondly remember, you know, giggling and laughing with Dad. And, as they say, shooting the shit. But it was difficult to know, you think, 'OK, well, is this going to stay? Is this what it's going to be, now? Can I count on this? Can I be here next weekend or the weekend after? Is that going to happen?' That was one of the, obviously, the hardest pill to swallow, was the constant change. You know, you thought things were going to settle down, but they just never quite did." Julian, 2018

"I lived an ideal life between then [Cyn and Roberto] and John and Yoko, but it all ended when Cynthia's marriage broke up and Dad and Yoko moved to the States." Julian, 1982

The big cut happens when on August 12th 1971 John and Yoko leave for NY and take up residence in the St. Regis Hotel.

At first their plan was to search for Kyoko, so that she too could come for visits at Tittenhurst like Julian. In September John and Yoko appeared on the Dick Cavett show and briefly talked about their wish that both their children could be with them.

youtube

Maybe a Christmas present:

Christie's auction

[In her Lost Weekend doc, May talks about Julian calling and Yoko not allowing her to put the call through to John. She says at that point they hadn't spoken for a couple of years. Then a few weeks later she is in the audience for George Harrison's appearance on Dick Cavett. The show is aired in November '71, so if there is anything to her anecdote she may mean they hadn't seen each other for two months instead of two years.]

26 May '72

"Lennon admits that he is scared to say too much publicly about the case, because it was the initial publicity that had spurred Cox to vanish. He talks about how hard it is for Ono to see pictures of her daughter: I have to hide them. Asked about his own son, Julian, he says: I don't have that 'where the hell is he?' bit. But he reveals that when they were in England, and Julian visited them every weekend, it was difficult for Ono to be with him when her own daughter wasn't there: It was killing her." source

28 May '72

Cynthia quoted in a Sunday paper: "John hasn't seen Julian since he went to America. It is rather a long time. He seems to be occupied with Yoko's daughter now. He does write to Julian, just normal letters, asking how he is getting on at school and things like that. And he sends him presents. He sent him a toy truck at Christmas. I don't keep in touch with John anymore. It's purely through Julian that we keep in contact. Julian loves his father. He follows his career in the newspapers. He goes to a private boys' school where people don't bother who he is. He went to a state school but he had problems there."

14 June '72

Cyn's complaints are repeated in the LA times, where it said that John hadn't seen Julian in eight months. "He seems to be occupied with Yoko's daughter now."

On 22 September '73 John and May leave for LA and only a few days later on 2 October '73 it is reported in the newspaper that Cyn separated from Roberto Bassanini.

Cynthia gave some interviews on her recent separation and the fact that she and Julian moved back to Hoylake, where Julian goes to private school.

"Unhappily Julian misses his father, which is only natural. We only hear from John at Christmas and when the birthdays come around." 7 October '73, Sunday Mirror

"Julian is always asking after him but of course John is in America now. It's been hard for him not seeing John for several years. This sort of thing is naturally upsetting for a child." 7 October '73, Sunday People

According to May's book, while John had broken up with her, she went to the Dakota to be with Yoko. Yoko there told her that she had decided it was time for Julian to come for a visit and May should at least reunite with John for that period to help him with it. May agreed to go back to John for two weeks, but it ends up being more like a year.

Christmas gift '73

To Julian from Daddy Christmas 1973

[Julian has sold an NFT of the black guitar. LINK ]

Shortly after Christmas '73 Julian and Cyn travel to LA to spend his school holidays with his father. They stay at least until the Happy Days taping they visit together on 5 February '74.

During the over a month long visit May writes, that they went to Disneyland three times and had brunch together the first morning. Meanwhile John is still having some wild times. Since Julian is staying with Cynthia, he goes out with May. The Kotex incident and nearly killing Jesse Ed Davis happen at the same time of this visit. May also places Cynthia asking John to have another child together during this trip.

As the visit ends May makes John promise to call Julian regularly.

"It is the right thing to do. I promise you, Fung Yee." He was silent for a while, then John said suddenly, "I really would like to keep in touch with me son." May Pang, Loving John p.168

Julian too, took a lot of positive out of the meetings around this time.

"Mum and I flew out to the States and stayed at the Beverly Hills Hotel. At least Mum did, I spend every minute of every day with my Dad and Yoko. " Julian, 1982

In later recollections Julian correctly puts the first visit in the time-frame that John was with May.

“Dad and I got on a great deal better than,” recalls Julian. “We had a lot of fun, laughed a lot and had a great time in general when he was with May Pang.” Julian in The Times, June 13 2009

May Pang: Loving John. About this visit and how it was set up.

In April 74 Julian sends a Thank you tape to John and Yoko for his birthday gift. Even though John is with May at this time, the present it seems was sent from the married couple.

The present in question according to Julian was a guitar, decorated with a mirror, writing and other stuff:

John writes to Cyn 22 June '74 a typed letter asking about Julian's holiday plans. Interestingly as the return address he gives the Dakota. He wants to send May to bring Julian.

19/20-25 July 1974 Instead of being collected by May, Julian sails with Elton John, Tony King, and Cyn per boat from Southampton to New York.

[In her book Cynthia wrongly remembers this as her first visit with John in the US. She also claims this visit was completely her initiative, which as proven by the letter wasn't the case. The whole anecdote is interesting however because she says that it was never the plan to stay with Julian, John and May but stay in NY with Jenny Boyd. Jenny apparently wasn't told about that plan, because in the end she wasn't there to home Cynthia. (May on the other hand remembers that Cynthia was staying with friends but they left without her and she was lonely, so she ended up coming with them.) In the end (and to John probably rightly or wrongly suspiciously) what was planned as just a trip for Julian with his dad turned into Cynthia coming along most of the time.]

Cynthia'a account about how this meeting was set-up and why she was with them during the trip.

Tony King in The Tastemaker simply writes: “John Lennon wanted to see his son, so I took Julian and John’s ex-wife Cynthia along with me.”

August 6th '74

John, May, Cyn and Julian return to LA for John to record Goodnight Vienna with Ringo.

In the summer while working on Walls and Bridges Julian visits the studio. He records Ya Ya with his dad.

Little interview bit with Julian about being in the studio.

August 19th, 1974

John and May take a trip to Denver. Instead of coming with them Julian stays with Cyn in LA.

When the whole vacation is coming to a close, it is decided that Julian should come for another visit for Christmas. John is clear that he wants him to come alone.

Both May Pang and Cynthia wrote about this visit in their memoirs. [Cynthia is clearly mixing up and merging the first and second trip together in her recollection of it.]

Cynthia's account.

May's account.

December 19th, 1974

Julian, accompanied by Apple staffer Steve Brendell, arrived in NY on this day for Christmas with John and May. Mimi was also invited but declined to come.

While they were in NY Yoko also came by because she wanted to greet Julian.

John, May and Julian flew to Florida on December 22. Lennon said he accepted Levy's Florida invitation "because I was so worn out anyway" from back-to-back studio projects "that I didn't know what to do with my son Julian." John figured that at Disney World, "I could sort of sit in a room or something and Julian could play with Morris's kid." John's quotes are from his trial testimony Big Seven Music Corp, 75Civ, 1116; In Stan Soocher Baby You're a Rich Man, Suing the Beatles for Fun and Money

Until 29 December they spent time in Palm Beach and later returned to Orlando (Disney World).

During this visit, Julian was helpful in influencing John and George making up and the thus the dissolution agreement of the Beatles coming along.

Julian remembers his Christmas visit with John and May fondly: “My memories of that time with Dad and May are very clear - they were the happiest time I can remember with them.” Julian in The Times, June 13 2009

May Pang in Loving John on this visit.

Cynthia writes about this visit in her book.

youtube

Video from May Pang's Lost Weekend documentary. [She says Long Island but I guess it's Palm Beach.]

In early February 1975 John moves back into the Dakota and resumes his marriage with Yoko.

John gives an interview to SPIN magazine in early spring 1975. In it he is asked about his private life, his recent return to Yoko, what his relationship with May is like now, and also about Julian:

How about you as a father? How old is your son [Julian] now? He is 11 now. All I know is that you took him to Disneyworld … right? Yeah, that was hell. Disneyland was better, the first time, in L.A., I took him there. Because I went with a gang, and there were a few of us who were flying a little. But Disneyworld — I was there on the most crowded day of the year, around Christmas or something. Seeing him is good. What we do is irrelevant. I went through a period of, “What are we gonna do?” and all that crap. It doesn’t really matter. As long as he’s around. Cause I don’t see him that often. How is it for an 11-year-old boy to have John Lennon as a father? It must be hell. Does he talk about that to you? No, because he is a Beatle fan. I mean, what do you expect?? I think he likes Paul better than me … I have the funny feeling he wishes Paul was his dad. But unfortunately he got me … It must be hard to be son of anybody. He is a bright kid and he’s into music. I didn’t encourage him, but he’s already got a band in school. But they sing rock’n’roll songs, ’cause their teacher is my age. So he teaches them “Long Tall Sally” and a couple of Beatles numbers. He likes Barry White and he likes Gilbert O’ Sullivan. He likes Queen, though I haven’t heard them yet. He turns me on to music. I call him and he says, “Have you heard Queen?” and I say “No, what is it?” I’ve heard of them. I’ve seen the guy … the one who looks like Hitler playing a piano … Sparks? I’ve seen Sparks on American TV. So I call him and say, “Have you seen Sparks? Hitler on the piano?” and he says, “No. They are alright. But have you seen Queen?” and I say “What’s Queen?” and then he tells me. His age group is hipper to music … at 11 I was aware of music, but not too much.

Link to the SPIN interview

March 11th 1975

John is interviewed by Bob Harris on The Old Grey Whistle Test. He sends greetings to Julian, Mimi and the rest of his family in England.

unknown

30 July 1975

About Julian ... I'm lucky if I see/hear from him myself. She allowed him over here twice last year ... but insisted on coming herself! You can imagine how thrilling that was ... she thought she could walk back in coz I wasn't with yoko!! Now we're back together again she stops him phoning me ... which he did a lot last year ... once a week. He's a bright little boy ... a bit 'sneaky' like his dad ... but he's gonna need that to survive his mother! Our relationship is pretty good --- he knows where I am and what my life is like ... he thinks of me a litlle too much in terms of 'money' etc ... which is what cyn and her mother (so called) have taught him (by example). He will run right to me when he's older ... we all run somewhere ... so I can wait. I got him well hooked on America ... which isan extraordinary place to say the least ... more on that in other letters perhaps. Oh yes the baby is due in November! Conceived feb 6. I tried to send Julia to see julian ... she was given the cold shoulder. When I get to England I'll show you them both. I would love to see yours. Letter to Leila, John Lennon Letters edited by Hunter Davies

After only five months being back with Yoko, communication with Julian has become more sporadic again. To his cousin Leila John complains that it's Cynthia keeping Julian from calling and about her tagging along the previous year. He also claims that he sent Julia to check in on Julian.

Julia Baird in a '83 interview confirms John's claim to Leila, that he hadn't heard from Julian and sent his little sister to check up on him.

"He kept asking in letters and on the phone, 'Please will you go and see Julian? Will you go and see Julian? Will you go see and see Julian? I haven't heard from Julian. His mother's got a cob on. Can you please go and see what's going on?' [...] Anyway eventually Aaron persuaded me that I should go. He was the one that when we got another letter asking, 'Have you been to see Julian yet?', he said, 'Look, he's never asked you to do anything. I think you should go.' [...] We went and John had given us the address, I didn't know where it was. And she seemed very embarrassed to see me. In fact so much so, that I backed off. I just said, 'Is Julian there, please? I'd like to see him.' And she said, 'No, he's gone out.' And I just said, 'Well goodbye, then.' It was very odd, very bizarre."

In her memoir Cyn doesn't mention John sending family to check on them but has an opposing recollection of who was unreachable:

"Initially he did: he phoned Julian as before, every few weeks. But the calls became less frequent, and all too often when Julian tried to phone John he couldn't get through. Yoko, or one of their employees, would tell him that John was sleeping or busy. Discouraged, Julian would wait weeks before trying again. " Cynthia Lennon, John p. 346

1 May '76

Cyn marries John Twist. John and Yoko send a telegram: "Congratulations, good luck, God bless the three of you, John and Yoko.”

According to Cynthia a few weeks later John calls her to invite Julian over for a visit during the school holidays to meet his brother. Yoko and John take the children for a holiday to Long Island. Cynthia also writes that Julian was mugged during his stay in NY, when John told him to go out by himself to buy a harmonica he wanted.

Photos of Julian with John and Yoko in summer 1976.

The only other person I have read mention the '76 visit is John Green in Dakota Days.

As the apartment at the Dakota grew more crowded, John retreated to the quieter and more spacious southern shore of Long Island. He took Sean with him and brought Julian over from Britain. Yoko kept him posted with a barrage of phone calls. "How goes the war, Charles?" he chimed into the receiver. "No casualties so far. How goes the peace?" "Great. It's absolutely beautiful. I've got a bit of sea and a bit of green and my sons, and even once in a while I even have my wife. You should come out here and get some of this. It's delightful." Dakota Days, p.97

[Aside from Cynthia's and Green's brief mentions of the trip, there is very little information on this NY visit. Even Robert Rosen, who supposedly read John's diaries multiple times, has nothing to say about this or the '77 visits. He even claims repeatedly that Julian and John first reunited in 1979 and hadn't seen each other for four years at that point.]

One of Julian's memories that most likely fits this visit:

Julian first played piano when he was thirteen, visiting his father and Yoko in Montauk, Long Island, after Sean, his half brother, was born. Their next-door neighbor had a piano, and Julian and his father went there one day. Lennon played a couple of tunes, then Julian asked, "Can I have a go?" Julian to Rolling Stone, 1985

Another one that Julian doesn't connect to a date but he remembers the new situation after his little brother was born:

[Yoko] was very loving towards me, even after their son Sean was born. Right at the beginning I felt a few pangs. They were there with their own son. Where did I fit in? But every time I went over Dad would lay on amazing treats, and Yoko was always loving towards me." Julian, 1982

In the same interview Julian also tells the story of his dad offering him a joint when he was about 12, so that might have also been the '76 visit, or the '74/'75 Christmas visit.

Cynthia claims she had trouble getting the money she was supposed to use for Julian's school. She asked John to split the trust fund, so that she can withdraw money from it easier. John agreed.

Cynthia publishes the letter in her book John and calls it "cautious, polite and to the point":

"I explained that, as he and Yoko were out of the country, it was impossibly difficult for me to get at Julian's money: 'Nothing can proceed without your signature - it means I'm forever overdrawn at the bank and have to wait on the convenience of your lawyers ... I want the best for Julian, and his standard of life shouldn't suffer because of lack of good management on your part, which has been happening since the fund was set up ... The money, instead of having doubled through good investment, is dwindling through lack of interest on your part ... It's just so important that this whole arrangement is sorted out without animosity or aggravation ... The way things are going Julian's financial prospects when he is 25 will be virtually nil and he is going to want to know why... It is one thing fighting for your rights but totally ridiculous fighting against your own son's interests, which is what seems to be happening.' "

[She says she ends the letter with thanking them for arranging the Concorde flight for Julian last summer. However according to wiki Concorde didn't fly to NYC until November 1977. (That years Christmas John and Yoko do indeed book a Concorde flight for Julian.) So I suspect that her supposed letter is specifically written for her book and not an actual document as the presentation suggests.]

In mid-October Cynthia gives an interview to Woman magazine that also got picked up in multiple newspapers. In it she talks about their relationship splitting after their first LSD trip, John getting upset with Julian when he couldn't eat with a knife, alleges that she was being followed by a private detective in Italy,...

A report on the article in the Burton Daily Mail from 19 October '76 also quotes Cynthia as saying:

"Since then their relationship has been beautiful," she says. "They talk a lot on the phone, there've been other visits and he's going again this year. I believe now that John is completely off all drugs, has been off them for years, otherwise I'd never let Julian go."

[He's going again this year indicates that there was another visit planned in 1976. If that happened or fell through, I haven't found anything about that.]

October 25th, 76

John sends Julian a postcard from Singapore. “What happened to ya?”

Even though the previous few months there was a visit and positive communication about the finances, Cynthia's decision to publicly complain in the papers angered John. He responded on November 26th 1976 with an open letter in the Daily Mail.

"Lennon tells first wife: Stop blaming Yoko," it read: "As you and I well know, our marriage was over long before the advent of LSD or Yoko Ono. Your memory is impaired to say the least. Your version of our first LSD trips is rather vague. You seem to have forgotten subsequent trips altogether. You also seem to have forgotten that only two years ago, while I was separated from Yoko Ono, you suddenly brought Julian to see me in Los Angeles after three years of silence. During that visit you didn't allow me to be alone with him for one moment. You even asked me to remarry you and give you another child 'for Julian's sake.' I politely told you no and that anyway I was still in love with Yoko. Finally, I don't blame you for wanting to get away from your Beatle past, but if you are serious about it you should try to avoid talking to and posing for magazines and newspapers. We did have some good years so dwell on them for a change."

Cynthia answers to the press after this, saying she doesn't want them to throw mud at each other and repeated "All I want to do is forget the Beatles and enjoy my present life". Still, only a few months later in 1977 she starts to write A Twist of Lennon (allegedly gleefully on a typewriter Yoko had gifted Julian). In her later memoir John she writes she was persuaded to do it by her husband John Twist who believed it would make their fortune.

Julian is sent to boarding school for that time. [In her book John Cynthia explicitly remembers that she moved to Ireland to write. However newspaper reports from the time suggest that the move happened later. So, probably Julian wasn't boarding at this time but those months in '78.]

At the same time communication between John and Julian was happening regularly and according to his diaries he got excited by the idea of buying Julian a keyboard.

July 14th, 1977

December 25th 1977

Julian comes by Concorde to stay at the Dakota during his school holidays.

[At the time of Julian's visit John and Yoko were still helped by the FBI to deal with the kidnapping threat and extortion attempt that had been going on for weeks and scared them badly. Also, Tony Cox had made contact by phone and agreed that Kyoko could visit for these holidays but then disappeared again and John would never hear again from Kyoko. I don't know if Julian was told any of this but I assume it probably was one of the more tense christmases.]

Going by Giuliano because neither Cynthia nor Robert Rosen mention this trip by Julian at all, John was very excited about Julian coming getting up early and baking bread for him. Julian gets close to Nishi and thereby brings forth John's competitive streak. John tries out the parental philosophy of wanting to spend time with Julian instead of giving him material goods, Julian goes 'oh, really' and John caves in. When he leaves John draws a portrait of Julian. Source

[Since Robert Rosen, who also read the diaries, doesn't even know about the '76 or '77 visits (and Giuliano too thinks they saw each other last at Disney World), they may not be the source for the above. I thought it might have been from Dakota Days but it's not. John Green mentions the '77 Christmas visit but says the family were going to Florida to meet Julian there because of the security threats. I think Green is confusing this and a later visit, so I will insert his account of what John told him on returning there.]

Julian stays most of January. Goes to see the musical The Magic Show with Yoko and the band Riff-Raff with John.

In February of 1978 Cynthia and her husband sell their house and move away from Ruthin to Eire to avoid a 'wealth tax'. They leave Julian to be a boarder at his school. Cynthia and John Twist return in December, probably because they missed Julian.

April 1978

[It's not actually dated aside from being from 1978, I just assume the guitar was Julian's birthday gift.]

GIBSON Les Paul 25/50 guitar

"Dad gave me this special order rare model - it was always exciting to receive something like this from my dad. When I visited Dad we would sit down together and he would teach me a few chords and help me improve my technique." Julian in Beatles Memorabilia. The Julian Lennon Collection.

May 19th 1978

A conversation with Cyn and excerpts from her memoir A Twist of Lennon are published in News of the World.

John, Yoko and Sean are in Japan for their summer vacation. Through his London lawyers John tries to stop the publication of Cynthia's book as a serial in the News Of The World.

Tuesday, June 13th, 1978 Having been telephoned in Japan with the details of Cynthia's memoir excerpt in News Of The World, John instructed his solicitors to issue a High Court injunction in an effort to prevent the publication of a planned second installment. Frere Cholmeley & Co., Lennon's attorney in London, described the piece as 'a salacious and gribby little article,' although it was qualified with the statement: 'He does not deny that he held parties or took drugs, but he deplores the publication of intimate details of his married life.' Friday, June 16th, 1978 In the case of Lennon v. News Group Newspapers Ltd and Twist, Lord Denning rejected John's application for an injunction in London's High Court today, permitting the publication of more excerpts from A Twist Of Lennon. For his par, Denning was not impresses with John's argument that the article's publication was a breach of confidence of the marriage: 'I cannot see that either of these two parties have had much regard for the sanctity of marriage ... It seems to me as plain as can be that the relationship of these parties has ceases to be their own private affair. They themselves have put it into the public domain.' Sunday, June 18th, 1978 Having successfully defended the right to publish excerpts from A Twist Of Lennon, today's edition of News Of The World featured part two of their series: 'How Yoko stole my husband.' " Lennonology

When the book actually was released feelings turned out to be much softer than expected. Cyn ends her first memoir with the words :

I still feel very proud of the Beatles and their accomplishments. My life during that period was an education, an education I wouldn't have missed. It has left me feeling enriched, not embittered, enlightened not blinded. All I can think to conclude my story is to say, 'Thanks for the memories, and in the words of the I CHING, no blame.'"

After finishing reading his ex-wife's book, according to Robert Rosen, John was relieved and enjoyed the nostalgia. He said a prayer for Cyn: "Dear God, please show her The Way. Thank You. Thank You."

Postcard to Julian:

[I can't make out the date on the card. Julian's Beatles memorabilia book says it's from '71 but that's obviously wrong with Sean being included and Julian's Ruthin address on it. John makes the reference to being a farmer. They bought their farm in February 1978, so I put it that year. May be wrong though.]

March 21st 1979

Julian is supposed to join John, Sean and Yoko's visiting nieces in Palm Beach.

[John taking a photo of Julian in '79]

There are multiple, very different accounts for this visit, that includes Julian's 16th birthday celebration.

John bought Julian a motorcycle for his birthday.

At one point they went to Disney World, (which none of the accounts of the trip even mention), where this photo of Julian and Yoko's nieces was taken:

Accounts from:

Robert Rosen [Rosen writes that Dan Richter's children came for a visit. Correction: I said before that that because Dan wrote in his book that he never saw John again after 1974, it seemes unlikely to me that his kids would be sent out to John and Yoko five years later. However Dan Richter does confirm that in his interview on the Podcast Glass Onion: On John Lennon episode 16:

"My kids would go down, they had a place down in Palm Beach or whatever it was down in Florida. And they were there at Christmas and bring Julian and they would fly my kids down to play with Julian. And everybody, the sense we got was they were happy!"

This visit doesn't happen over Christmas but it sounds like he is talking about more than one occasion that happened and probably Christmas is one example. Could also mean that Rosen is mixing up the occasion for that anecdote.]

Cynthia Lennon

Fred Seaman

Geoffrey Giuliano

John Green [Green puts this actually to the '77 holiday visit, where he wrongly writes they went to Florida. I think (if his stories are to be believed at all) he confuses John's anger and disappointment upon return with this visit of Julian's. It also fits with being in Florida.]

[I recommend to read all of them. Lots of drama. I may one day make a comparison post between all the account because they are fascinatingly different.]

April 9th 1979

John writes to Mimi saying Julian would be welcome to live with them if he so chose but there had been no arrangements made.

Q: Did you ever plan to go and live with him [John] in New York? Julian: "When I was in my early teens we'd spoken on the phone about the possibility of me going to college over there. I think it was wishful thinking on both our parts because I felt uncomfortable about the situation and I believe he did, too." Hello! Magazine, 1995

April 25th 1979, Postcard to Julian from NY:

Julian declines to join his dad, Yoko and Sean for their family's yearly vacation in Japan.

[July 1979 In the context of getting one of his guitars Julian said that John bought him a Sony Walkman as a gift when they were brand-new. He puts around '73-'74. However according to wikipedia the Sony Walkman was first sold in July '79, so that present would have been sent to Julian around this time, maybe directly from Japan.]

December 1979

On 3rd-4th December there is a two part feature in the Daily Mail called "The Sons of the Beatles" on Julian and Zak.

"When I'm in New York, we go out quite a lot together round some of the art galleries, or to his house at Long Island. When we stay in we have musical jam sessions together singing out latest songs to each other. I still listen to Beatles music. Although I quite like some of my father's solo albums, I much prefer what he did with the Beatles." (quoted from Lennonology p. 508)

Also that month:

"More disturbing to John were the ongoing trials with Julian. The sullen teen continued to vex his father with his on-again, off-again plans to visit over Christmas. At first Julian said maybe, as long as they didn't go to Florida. Then it was a flat no, using school exams and a new girlfriend as an excuse. At the last minute he called saying he would come to New York only if he could bring a friend, but Yoko turned him down. As usual John didn't challenge her. Julian retaliated by sending his father a tabloid article about rock stars' sons, which focused on both him and Ringo's son Zak Starkey, and went into detail about the trials of being the offspring of a Beatle." Lennon in America by Giuliano p. 218

On the other hand John Green does write that Julian spent Christmas '79 with John, Yoko and Sean. He even says that Julian stayed until February. ("John stayed in the Palm Beach house until February, luxuriating in the sun and sea, forging new ties with Julian and delighting in rediscoveries of himself." p.229) [This can't be true however because John was definitely in NY for Christmas and New Years. John and Yoko did buy a house in Palm Beach late January however and were spotted there a few times in February. I can't find a mention of Julian being spotted with them, so it may or may not have happened. I do think between the two of them Giuliano's account is probably more accurate. The Daily Mail article he mentions of Zak and Julian had come out on 3 or 4 December, so that is also believable that it had come up in pre-christmas discussions. But of course it's possible that a visit happened anyway.]

1980

Julian called in February 1980 to set up another meeting with his dad. This time John denied him, surprisingly because he was worried about Julian's schooling. Through Cynthia he had learned that Julian was failing his O-levels, had started smoking, staying out at night drinking, had gotten in trouble with the police for setting up fires and racing through town on a dirt bike. "John just prayed that Julian didn't hurt himself." There is also continued conflict over money. John felt that Julian every time they spoke asked him for more money. "And though John continued to feel guilty about having abandoned Julian and Cynthia, he'd be damned if he was going to be like every other rich asshole father who'd abandoned his family and then used money as a poor substitute for love and companionship." source

In March 'A Twist of Lennon' gets its paperback release and new reviews are printed in the press.

Summer 1980

When John sat for a portrait painting with Sean for the artist Nancy Gosnell, he wondered if she could also do one of him and Julian from a photograph. He wanted to give him a father and son portrait for his birthday, according to Fred Seaman.

September 1980

PLAYBOY: "Your son, Julian, from your first marriage must be in his teens. Have you seen him over the years?" LENNON: "Well, Cyn got possession, or whatever you call it. I got rights to see him on his holidays and all that business, and at least there's an open line still going. It's not the best relationship between father and son, but it is there. He's 17 now. Julian and I will have a relationship in the future. Over the years, he's been able to see through the Beatle image and to see through the image that his mother will have given him, subconsciously or consciously. He's interested in girls and autobikes now. I'm just sort of a figure in the sky, but he's obliged to communicate with me, even when he probably doesn't want to." PLAYBOY: "You're being very honest about your feelings toward him to the point of saying that Sean is your first child. Are you concerned about hurting him?" LENNON: "I'm not going to lie to Julian. Ninety percent of the people on this planet, especially in the West, were born out of a bottle of whiskey on a Saturday night, and there was no intent to have children. So 90 percent of us... that includes everybody... were accidents. I don't know anybody who was a planned child. All of us were Saturday-night specials. Julian is in the majority, along with me and everybody else. Sean is a planned child, and therein lies the difference. I don't love Julian any less as a child. He's still my son, whether he came from a bottle of whiskey or because they didn't have pills in those days. He's here, he belongs to me and he always will."

Playboy: I was under the impression that you still weren't seeing Julian much. Lennon: Well, no, he's comin' here over shortly now. I see him whenever he get's off school. Playboy: Has it been hard for him to be John Lennon's kid? Lennon: Yeah, he has his own... Everybody has a cross to bear, and Julian has that cross, and he'll deal with it. He's a clever boy, and as he gets older we can communicate and he'll understand.

[I wasn't sure what upcoming visit John is referring to since I couldn't find one mentioned anywhere. However there is an article in the Daily Mirror from 8 October 1980 including interview passages with Cynthia that mentions Julian currently being in New York. So without any photographic evidence, he isn't in any of the birthday photos, or anecdotes about it, there still might be the possibility that there was a (pre-)birthday visit from Julian to John and Sean in 1980. Julian himself hasn't been completely consistent on when he last saw his Dad. He has said that his '79 birthday visit was their last meeting (which I think is most likely correct), but he also claimed that he was flying out regularly.]

"According to Cynthia, Julian, now 18, plays guitar better than his father. He has left school and is off to New York to stay with his famous dad." Link to the article

In an interview with Jonathan Cott on 5 December John reflects more on the troubles of being a Beatle's son and on how mistakes in his decision for Julian's schooling changed his outlook on his plans for Sean. [Julian had been going to private school since at least 1973.]

"[...] because he can't possibly be an average child, being the son of famous parents. I tried that game with my son Julian, sending him to a comprehensive working-class school, mixing with the people, but the people spat and shit on him, because he was famous, as people are wont to do. So his mother had to finally turn around and tell me to piss off: 'I'm sending him to a private school, the kid is suffering here.' "

Cynthia writes that by the end of 1980 Julian felt a breakthrough in his and his father's relationship. John played Julian songs from his new album over the phone, asking his opinions. source

Julian himself reflects on his and his dad's relationship by the time of his death like this:

"I know that dad's presence will be around for a long time. He was always joking, always sounded happy, which made me think more of him as a friend than a dad. My earliest memory of my father was when I was about three and he sang happy birthday to me. We were living at Weybridge, Surrey, and dad threw a birthday party for me and brought in a long cake shaped like a train and festooned with candles." Sunday Mirror, 5 April 1981

As early as 1982 negative feelings would influence Julian's memory, saying he didn't get to see his father for five years, that he only heard on Birthdays and Christmas from him or that after the first US visit it was again years before he got to go another time, when it was merely months.

"The Beatles sang 'All You Need Is Love' - and that is all I wanted from Dad. It is difficult to explain why I should feel so strongly, when we shared so little. Never once in all the years he lived in America did he even think about coming to see me. Apart from rare visits, I lived from birthdays to Christmas just to hear from him." Julian, 1982

[Those false memories/presentations may have been the result of his beginning break from Yoko around that time and the conflicts about money, or maybe his memories just adapted to the way it was talked about in his family.]

"It was more of one man to another than the usual father and son relationship, because he had been away from me a lot, and he said he realized that. I was just getting through to him and growing up myself and growing out of the silly giggling I did as a young teenager that really annoyed him, when Dad was killed." Julian quoted in Ray Coleman's John bio, pp.620

"Dad was such an influence in my life, it must have been hard on Mum. She'd do her best with presents at birthdays and Christmas, but I always waited for that special present that was bigger than anything else - from him. Yet he never sent anything spontaneously. He'd phone up and ask what I wanted, and it would arrive. I don't think he was trying to buy me in any way. It was just a chance for him to do something for me. He knew I wanted to be a musician and kept telling me to take a long time to get it right. He removed a lot of the stress I suppose other kids might feel. I didn't do very well at school. I don't think I'm dense, but I suppose I'm a bit lazy. There's only one thing I want - to know for sure that Dad loved me as much as I loved him. Or maybe to have him back." Julian, 1982

Edits: 29 April - December 1974 John trial quote added; September 1980 Playboy interview quote added 6 May - added Julian quote about relationship to his father by the time of his death 7 May - added Old Grey Whistle Test clip March 11th 1975 18 May - added info about 3-4 December '79 Daily Mail feature on Julian and Zak, added all the info I could find on any visits in John Green's Dakota Days and multiple notes on to those mentions. 20 May - added Cyn's quote for 28 May 1972. 23 June - added the Tittenhurst floorplan and the link to an extended quote from Julian about being there in German 8 July - added quote from 5 Dec 1980 to Jonathan Cott 20 July - added Julia Baird audio on trying to see Julian for John 1975 22 July - added info on a possible 1980 visit, 1973 interviews, 1976 info, 1980's quote 30 July - Spin interview '75 added, Cynthia quote from Burton Daily Mail '76 added 1 August - added bits from Julian's 1982 article throughout, transcribed some of the jpg quotes, so that I may add more photos, some photos added 4 August - correction in my comments about the likelihood of Dan Richter's children being with them in 1979 19 August - Box of Smile 8 October - Added some postcards, the guitars, reset some photographs because of the picture limit 12 November - Added the video clip from May Pang's doc

#i was suddenly getting nervous that this will just disappear from my drafts. that would annoy me so much. so it get's posted NOW.#i will add stuff to it as i find it but that's how i always do timelines. fill them up over time. and this is already massive.#i just wanted to date one damn thing and this is what happened...#thoughts in progress #john lennon #julian lennon #Youtube

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