#harry stack sullivan

[veryslowreader]

The Psychiatric Interview by Harry Stack Sullivan

Stardust Memories

[literaryvein-reblogs]

Writing Notes: The 4 Kinds of Love

Rollo May, in his 1969 book, "Love and Will," identified 4 kinds of love in Western tradition.

SEX

A biological function that can be satisfied through sexual intercourse or some other release of sexual tension.

Although it has become cheapened in modern Western societies, “it still remains the power of procreation, the drive which perpetuates the race, the source at once of the human being’s most intense pleasure and his [or her] most pervasive anxiety” (May, 1969, p. 38).

May believed that in ancient times sex was taken for granted, just as eating and sleeping were taken for granted.

In modern times, sex has become a problem:

First, during the Victorian period, Western societies generally denied sexual feelings, and sex was not a topic of conversation in polite company.

Then, during the 1920s, people reacted against this sexual suppression; sex suddenly came into the open and much of Western society was preoccupied with it.

May pointed out that society went from a period when having sex was fraught with guilt and anxiety to a time when not having it brought about guilt and anxiety.

EROS

In the United States, sex is frequently confused with eros.

Sex is a physiological need that seeks gratification through the release of tension.

Eros is a psychological desire that seeks procreation or creation through an enduring union with a loved one.

Eros is making love; sex is manipulating organs.

Eros is the wish to establish a lasting union; sex is the desire to experience pleasure.

Eros “takes wings from human imagination and is forever transcending all techniques, giving the laugh to all the ‘how to’ books by gaily swinging into orbit above our mechanical rules” (May, 1969, p. 74).

Eros is built on care and tenderness.

It longs to establish an enduring union with the other person, such that both partners experience delight and passion and both are broadened and deepened by the experience.

Because the human species could not survive without desire for a lasting union, eros can be regarded as the salvation of sex.

PHILIA

Eros, the salvation of sex, is built on the foundation of philia.

An intimate nonsexual friendship between two people.

Philia cannot be rushed; it takes time to grow, to develop, to sink its roots.

Examples of philia would be the slowly evolving love between siblings or between lifelong friends.

“Philia does not require that we do anything for the beloved except accept him, be with him, and enjoy him. It is friendship in the simplest, most direct terms” (May, 1969).

Harry Stack Sullivan placed great importance on preadolescence, that developmental epoch characterized by the need for a chum, someone who is more or less like oneself.

According to Sullivan, chumship or philia is a necessary requisite for healthy erotic relationships during early and late adolescence.

May, who was influenced by Sullivan at the William Alanson White Institute, agreed that philia makes eros possible.

The gradual, relaxed development of true friendship is a prerequisite for the enduring union of two people.

AGAPE

Just as eros depends on philia, so philia needs agape.

May (1969) defined agape as “esteem for the other, the concern for the other’s welfare beyond any gain that one can get out of it; disinterested love, typically, the love of God for man” (p. 319).

Agape is altruistic love.

It is a kind of spiritual love that carries with it the risk of playing God.

It does not depend on any behaviors or characteristics of the other person. In this sense, it is undeserved and unconditional.

In Summary

Healthy adult relationships blend all four forms of love.

They are based on sexual satisfaction, a desire for an enduring union, genuine friendship, and an unselfish concern for the welfare of the other person.

Such authentic love, unfortunately, is quite difficult.

It requires self-affirmation and the assertion of oneself.

“At the same time it requires tenderness, affirmation of the other, relaxing of competition as much as possible, self-abnegation at times in the interests of the loved one, and the age-old virtues of mercy and forgiveness” (May, 1981).

Sources: May, R. (1969). Love and will; May, R. (1981). Freedom and destiny

If these writing notes inspire you in any way, please tag me, or leave a link in the replies. I would love to read your work!

[aro-culture-is]

aro culture is HATING the term "significant other" because are you saying they're the only person who's significant in your life????? there's absolutely no one else in your life??? at all??? if that's really the case i think there's something wrong do you need help

okay so out of curiousity i just looked up the history of the term, and i found the following:

Significant other is attested by 1961, in psychology, "the most influential other person in the patient's world (x)

The first known use of the terms "significant other person" and "significant other people" is by the U.S. psychiatrist Harry Stack Sullivan in the article "Conceptions of Modern Psychiatry" in the journal: Psychiatry: Journal of the Biology and Pathology of Interpersonal Relations, published in 1940. (x)

[psychologen]

Alfred Adler

• Adler begründete 1907 die Individualpsychologie in Wien. Die Lehre hatte einen bedeutenden Einfluss auf die Psychologie und Psychotherapie des 20. Jahrhunderts.

• Sie beeinflusste Rollo May, Viktor Frankl, Abraham Maslow und Albert Ellis.

• Adlers Schriften antizipierten Einsichten der Neopsychoanalyse, wie sie bei Karen Horney, Harry Stack Sullivan und Erich Fromm zu finden sind.

• Anhänger seiner Richtung werden Adlerianer genannt.

[learnpsychology]

Harry Stack Sullivan mengembangkan teori interpersonal dalam psikiatri, yang menekankan bahwa kepribadian bukanlah entitas yang berdiri sendiri, melainkan hasil dari pola interaksi sosial yang berulang. Menurutnya, individu tidak dapat dipisahkan dari hubungan sosialnya, sejak lahir hingga dewasa. Bahkan seseorang yang mengisolasi diri tetap dipengaruhi oleh pengalaman interaksi masa lalunya.

Sullivan berpendapat bahwa kepribadian dapat dipahami hanya melalui tingkah laku interpersonal, bukan sebagai sesuatu yang statis dalam diri individu. Ia juga menekankan bahwa faktor sosial lebih menentukan perkembangan manusia dibandingkan faktor biologis. Pengalaman sosial bahkan dapat mengubah fungsi biologis seseorang, menjadikannya bagian dari organisme sosial yang telah disosialisasikan dalam berbagai aspek kehidupannya.

Dalam pandangannya, psikiatri sangat terkait dengan psikologi sosial, karena kajian tentang gangguan mental tidak bisa dilepaskan dari konteks hubungan interpersonal seseorang. Ia menggunakan pendekatan teori medan, yang menilai kepribadian berdasarkan pola interaksi dalam berbagai situasi yang berulang.

Lahir pada tahun 1892 di New York, Sullivan menempuh pendidikan kedokteran di Chicago College of Medicine and Surgery dan kemudian bekerja di berbagai institusi medis dan psikiatri. Penelitiannya tentang skizofrenia membuatnya terkenal sebagai ahli klinis.

Ia mendirikan Washington School of Psychiatry dan menjadi ketua William Alanson White Foundation, yang menjadi pusat pengembangan teori interpersonalnya. Sullivan juga terlibat dalam berbagai proyek internasional, termasuk UNESCO Tensions Project, yang meneliti faktor-faktor sosial yang mempengaruhi pemahaman antarbangsa.

Meskipun hanya menerbitkan satu buku semasa hidupnya, catatan ceramah dan tulisannya telah dikompilasi menjadi beberapa buku, di antaranya: The Interpersonal Theory of Psychiatry (1953), The Psychiatric Interview (1954), Clinical Studies in Psychiatry (1956), Schizophrenia as a Human Process (1962)

Pengaruhnya dalam psikologi dan psikiatri sangat luas, dengan banyak murid dan kolega yang mengembangkan serta mendokumentasikan teorinya. Patrick Mullahy dan Dorothy Blitsten adalah beberapa tokoh yang menulis tentang teori interpersonal Sullivan dan signifikansinya dalam ilmu sosial.

[allaboutcults]

The first group I want to talk about it the “Sullivan.”

The Sullivan Institute was founded in 1957 by Saul Newton and his wife Jane Piece and was named after Pierces old teacher, Harry Stack Sullivan, a neo-Freudian psychoanalysis. However, it is believed that the work done by the Sullivan institute was a far more distorted version of what Harry Sullivan taught.

The group started off in Newton and Pieces own town house in upper New York (specifically 332 West 77th Street.) It mainly consisted of other psychiatrists psychoanalyzing eachother.

Now, this doesn’t sound too much like a cult at this point, nor does it sound too sinister (not all cults are evil… but you could lump this one in with that category.) The Sullivan Institute had the idea that nuclear families were the route to all mental illnesses and heavily discouraged permanent couples. They also believed that “the worst thing you can do is raise your own children” which was what Lauren Olitski said was told to her parent, Jules Olitski a patient and painter. The Sullivans would also push folks to cut ties with their families as soon as possible so they could live a free life.

Yeah… so they weren’t a great group to be honest. They heavily believed in polyamory (which is not a bad thing) and straight up not taking care of your kid (which is a bad thing.)

In the 70’s they moved to a larger buildings and their member count was in the several hundreds… however towards the 80’s the group began to die out due to a lot of negative press. This mainly coming from the alleged professional misconduct (wouldn’t doubt it, many women said that Newton sexually harassed them) and a series of custody battles due to them not giving back two kids to their mother, causing her to have to kidnap them. (Which I guess isn’t really kidnapping…)

In 1991 Saul Newton died due to complications with Alzheimer’s. After that, the group kind of… just died. The main building was bought by a Jewish group. Ex members of the group called it a “psychotherapy cult.”

And that’s it pretty much.

Oh and fun fact, Jackson Pollock and Richard Price were patient of this institute. So there’s that.

Hope you liked this post:)) Will try to find much more weirder groups:)))

[teampsinco5]

OBRAS

– La personalidad neurótica de nuestro tiempo (1937).

Karen Horney forma parte de un reducido grupo de psicoanalistas (junto con Alfred Adler, Erich Fromm, Harry Stack Sullivan y, en otro sentido, Erik Erikson) que, en sus estudios, centraron su atención en las influencias culturales y sociales sobre la personalidad del individuo. La personalidad neurótica de nuestro tiempo ofrece al lector un panorama de las actuales perturbaciones en la vida social y privada. La idea central del estudio de Horney es que, ante circunstancias adversas, los individuos reaccionan desarrollando determinadas actitudes o estrategias defensivas que les permiten hacer frente al medio y obtener una cierta gratificación. Específicamente, los individuos utilizan tales estrategias para enfrentarse a -o minimizar- los sentimientos de angustia y para conseguir relacionarse con otros. Cuando las citadas estrategias son exageradas o inapropiadas, se denominan tendencias neuróticas. Horney sostiene que tales tendencias no son por naturaleza instintivas, sino que dependen en gran medida de la situación en que vive una persona. El dilema de la incapacidad neurótica de querer y de la angustiosa necesidad de ser querido, así como el papel del amor como alivio o ilusión, entre otras cosas, son estudiados en este libro con detenimiento, penetración y claridad.

– Nuestros conflictos internos (1945).

Nos trata de dar un enfoque diferente a la teoria de la personalidad, ya que ella fue una psicoanalista humanista en la que considera fundamentalmente al individuo y sus conflictos como producto de su medio ambiente cultura.

– Neurosis y crecimiento humano (1950).

Confirma que las personas pueden actuar de manera diferente en sus relaciones interpersonales debido a la neurosis o al sentirse indefensos. Pueden acercarse a los demás, alejarse o enfrentarse. Sobre la base de este principio, se especifican tres acciones propias (estrategias) del individuo:

Estrategia sumisa (solución de autodestrucción)

Estrategia expansiva

Estrategia resignada

[vtm-world]

"Escape from Freedom"

Erich Fromm (1922-1982) I learned of Erich Fromm sometime during my college years as a major in psychology. He earned his Ph.D. in sociology and economics, but also studied psychology and corresponded with Karen Horny and Harry Stack Sullivan, both important psychologists who influenced his thinking and writing. Fromm became a neo- Freudian. Although my keen interest was in a more behavioral…

[piensoenversos]

“El amor comienza cuando una persona siente que las necesidades de otra persona son tan importantes como las suyas propias”.

- Harry Stack Sullivan

[quotemadness]

Your emotional life is not written in cement during childhood. You write each chapter as you go along.

Harry Stack Sullivan

[nondualreality]

Your emotional life is not written in cement during childhood. You write each chapter as you go along.

Harry Stack Sullivan

[psychreviews2]

Lou Andreas-Salomé Pt. 8

Understanding Narcissism

Around the time Lou was conversing with Freud and gradually entering into his circle, she was asked to write papers and to work with her own patients. Freud was trying to understand narcissism at the time, or self-love. In his letters with Lou, she found this to be her favorite subject along with the anal phase of childhood sexual development. She peppered him with questions, but he was cagey about creating easy to criticize systems, with weak foundations, and he was also quick to criticize other systems for the same reasons, for example when theoreticians ignored the power of the unconscious, or when Lou emphasized the interconnection of everything. "Naturally I do not always agree with you. I so rarely feel the need for synthesis. The unity of this world seems to me so self-evident as not to need emphasis. What interests me is the separation and breaking up into its component parts of what would otherwise revert to an [undeveloped] mass."

On Narcissism - Sigmund Freud (Narcissism 1 of 4): https://rumble.com/v1gtgdl-on-narcissism-sigmund-freud-narcissism-1-of-4.html

The unconscious for Freud was truly unconscious. Most of what people felt was unconscious material was in fact content appearing in the mind in a meditative state, the preconscious, but by that point Freud felt that those contents were already distorted by displacement, condensation, symbolization, and dramatization found in dreams. There were embarrassing and shameful wishes behind the distortions, starting with the Oedipus Complex with parents, and extending out to people who were otherwise unavailable for intimate relations for one social reason or another. There were also disguised desires for aggression towards human obstacles blocking those wishes from being fulfilled. The classic example would be the little boy who wants to monopolize the attention of the mother and wish to kill the father. The key to finding the embarrassing truth behind the distorted content was to discern what the situation presented in terms of object-choices to get pleasure from or obstacles to annihilate without regard to morality or fears of social punishment: a pure pleasure principle. The goal wasn't to completely remove repression, as some people inferred. Social constructions, like the Ten Commandments, provided rules to improve social harmony and to avoid quagmires of passion. Mental peace requires some self-control, and a later psychoanalytic book, The Psychopathic Mind, by J. Reid Meloy, described this unfiltered Id being like a "reptilian mind...limbic dysfunction...a walking impulse...unmodulated affect." Ideally, a psychoanalyst would bring out the possible forbidden fruit in the material coming out of the patient for the purposes of learning and then proper object-choices would then be selected based on the reality principle.

Dreams - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gtf6j-dreams-sigmund-freud.html

Case Studies: 'Little Hans' - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gu93b-case-studies-little-hans-sigmund-freud.html

The Pleasure Principle - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gurqv-the-pleasure-principle-sigmund-freud.html

Now these desires for other people, object-choices, didn't stop there. Freud noticed that desires can also be for oneself in many different ways, including desires for one's own body, or even loving an idea of oneself. At the beginning of psychoanalysis, so many pathologies were lumped together and different diagnoses were being parsed out into mostly undeveloped lumps of symptoms, but narcissism was found to exist in many of these categories, including homosexuality, paranoia, and schizophrenia. Like found with Harry Stack Sullivan in his patient intake, many men were triggered by stress related to their homosexual desires with overt anal and oral thirsts, cravings, and reflexes. In the 'Wolf Man' study there could be childhood incestuous hetero- and homosexual desires towards parents that could lead to shame and Oedipus frustrations at an early age. The shame then could trigger biological predispositions for one kind of pathology or another. For example, Daniel Paul Schreber admonished himself for having wild psychotic breaks when there were desires to be a woman and a self-hatred connected with his imploding marriage due to these intolerable changes. When Sullivan gained success with schizophrenic patients, by using mindfulness to query events, no matter how small, that happened before a psychotic break took over, patients then could sometimes remember the trigger, and come back to reality. Clearly in psychoanalysis, there was a belief that stress in the mind can affect the body in many different ways, and stress is often connected with frustrated wishes and self-esteem.

Case Studies: Daniel Paul Schreber - Freud and Beyond: https://rumble.com/v1gu84v-case-studies-daniel-paul-schreber-freud-and-beyond.html

Object Relations: Harry Stack Sullivan: https://psychreviews.org/object-relations-harry-stack-sullivan/

Case Studies: The Wolf Man (1/3) - Freud and Beyond: https://rumble.com/v1gucp1-case-studies-the-wolf-man-13-freud-and-beyond.html

Different kinds of psychotic breaks were put under the heading of Paraphrenia, and the patterns found in Paraphrenia, for Freud and other clinicians, was that of megalomania, and a loss of interest in the external world. Psychoanalysis couldn't progress further because of its slow method, hence the need for later clinicians like Sullivan, to move towards quick interrogations before the patient was lost for long periods of time, or in some cases, lost forever. Not all pathologies led to a complete disconnection with reality, but only partially so. With hysteria, which was a general term for ungovernable emotion, and obsession, which involved uncontrollable ritualization, desires towards real objects and people manifest, but activity to take action and achieve those goals is repressed. The craving, or libido is inhibited.

When craving is not going outward, Freud viewed it as an economical situation where craving moved inward towards Freud's idea of introversion. This reservoir of emotional investment and attachment is limited and aimed at oneself in self-preservation or escape from the dreadful world, so it becomes a form of narcissism, but the reservoir of craving, theoretically, must have already existed and had a more primary function before this secondary narcissism of withdrawal from the world. Connecting with Totem and Taboo, Freud felt that primitive societies and children sent their wishes more haphazardly due to ignorance of science, so wishes could turn into magical thinking, or the omnipotence of thoughts. In paraphrenias, these are failed attempts at returning to the world, but with less severe pathologies obsessives and the hysteria minded could find ways to survive in the wild with confirmation bias and rudimentary skills. These examples included rituals that led to some kind of concentration or focus on a skill development or ethical problem as a precursor for religions. This limited craving energy went out, which was a survival risk, to emotionally feed on rewarding objects and relationships. That energy had to withdraw when the danger became too great. There's an "antithesis between ego-[craving] and object-[craving]. The more one is employed, the more the other becomes depleted. The highest phase of development of which object-[craving] is capable is seen in the state of being in love, when the subject seems to give up his own personality in favour of [emotional investment in an object.]" This is loving another like oneself. When there's extreme paranoia, this does not happen because the world appears so dangerous that it looks like an apocalypse. Another example is that of a person feeling physical pain and how their attention goes towards their own body, but there is now not enough energy left for love towards others. "We should then say: the sick man withdraws his [craving attachments] back upon his own ego, and sends them out again when he recovers."

Totem and Taboo - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gsmvn-totem-and-taboo-sigmund-freud.html

Because self-craving is hard to measure, Freud felt that object-choices would at least be a key because craving would have to be involved before a choice could be made. Transference neuroses for Freud was a category of craving going within and attaching towards fantasy replacements or going out to replacement objects as opposed to narcissistic neuroses that withdrew craving from the world and directed it towards the super-ego. Early stages of self-love on the other hand could be sussed out by observation of infantile enjoyment of the body and skin, including infantile masturbation. Adult forms of self-love also includes vanity, grooming, and cleanliness rituals. Now, there can be an idea of sickness, as opposed to actual sickness, where a hypochondriac goes through useless medical rituals needing constant reassurance of health. So a psychological belief about the health of oneself, an idea as opposed to a reality, can have a similar effect where there is a withdrawal of craving from the world, to be then aimed at oneself.

Emotional disturbances about an idea of the self also manifest in the old diagnosis of neurasthenia, which was a bundle of symptoms involving low energy, headaches, and irritability, as well as other anxiety disorders. All these prevented people from acting on their goals and losing worldly interest. Freud then worked backwards to say that if there was a diminishment of interest in the world, sexual or otherwise, there could be an increase of self-preservative narcissism, introversion, and regression. Here regression would be moving to more archaic skills as opposed to skills that master the environment as intended. There was a damming up of craving preventing skillful satisfaction. For Freud, when the world was more safe, and when there was enough rest, the craving would regularly exceed what was needed for the ego and self-preservation. It then felt better and energy was now available for exploration in the world of objects. The love that Freud talked about was of course for other people, but it could also be discharged in activities and interests beyond intimate relationships. The "demands of reality" could be daunting for the mind, and being able to find replacement object-choices that were more accessible, provided opportunities to relieve that pressure. When people were stuck in rumination and there was not enough creativity to make new object-choices, pathology was more likely to arise. This was also the case when there were skill deficits. But for some people, no change was observable, except that the quantity of craving increased or decreased, based on their constitutional makeup.

In variants of homosexuality, Freud viewed object-choices of the same sex as about loving oneself. "We say that a human being has originally two sexual objects—himself and the woman who nurses him—and in doing so we are postulating a primary narcissism in everyone, which may in some cases manifest itself in a dominating fashion in his object-choice." Typical patterns of masculine love was to overrate the female, and therefore diminish the self, with a sense that the man needed the woman more than she needed him, as seen by all his resources being mobilized to demonstrate the care he could provide women. Beautiful women in reverse narcissistically loved themselves more based on how they were rated, especially when they could leverage good looks, and they chose the man who demonstrated the most love and protection. Freud saw how a godly self-containment could be an attraction for those who were trying to get their attention, while valuing themselves low, with the intention of using the object to redress their low self-esteem. Low self-esteem makes the man risk all their resources while tolerating regular debasement, and in the modern world, this is called Simp Culture, which is another name for co-dependency or masochism. It's all about the woman making the man feel good so that he relinquishes his boundaries over his resources.

Sexuality Pt 3: Homosexuality - Sigmund Freud & Beyond: https://rumble.com/v1gtqk5-sexuality-pt-3-homosexuality-sigmund-freud-and-beyond.html

What's hard for people to understand about these relationships is unconsciousness and how happiness with object-choices can be near impossible to attain without wisdom. People in optimum environments can be very pleasing, novel, fresh, and mysterious. Until the environments change with repetition and boredom, or when there are stress tests, only then do you really learn about people. The illusion bursts. Many women are genuinely lonely, and they also imagine men in optimum environments with the same illusions where stress and boredom don't exist. How partners then move on from one to another is the "love at first sight" where an optimum solution, even if only temporary, appears with this new character on the scene.

Kylie Minogue - Love At First Sight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf421JsG004

Kylie Minogue - Come Into My World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63vqob-MljQ

No better than to examine pop stars and their long list of relationships, especially ones with long careers, like Kylie Minogue, who has seen everything, as soon as boredom or stress appears, the offended partner is often gone into the blue. This is partly because they can see new pathways and avenues, but sometimes those pathways are just the imagination, because it's filled with scenarios where there are only flow states. Yet, no life, no matter how luxurious, will be totally free from stress and boredom. Of course, there's nothing wrong with being an adult and making choices, as long as there's enough reality to hold onto. In Kylie Minogue's Into The Blue, she sounds similar to Lou Andreas-Salomé's celebration of a life lived with intensity and the acceptance of all the messiness along the way. "I'm not ashamed of all my mistakes / 'Cause through the cold I still kept the fire burning / These memories that I can't erase / Always remind me I'm on an endless journey."

Kylie Minogue - Get Outta My Way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHGaW8lBlSk

Kylie Minogue - Into The Blue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6FaI-wJxs

Kylie Minogue Relationship History - New Idea: https://www.newidea.com.au/celebrity/kylie-minogue-relationship-history/

When the man appears too stressful or boring to his partner, and she's gone, he often becomes like a sad sack moaning artist. Not to single out men as angels, because they also respond to stress and boredom with similar relationship ending actions that become fodder for tabloids scanning for scandals. "After meeting at the Brit Awards in 2000, Kylie and model James Gooding went on to be in a relationship for three years before rampant cheating and drugs on James' end lead to the end of their romance, which quickly turned ugly...'She turned into a self-obsessed, virtually friendless control freak, desperate to pursue her ambitions as far as she could take them,' James said about Kylie after their break-up. 'I fear she is going to end up a lonely spinster with only a cat by her side for company.' However, Kylie went on to blast her ex in The Daily Star, saying the love rat should 'grow up and move on. It's sad James has let it come to this. I wish he'd just accept that we have to move on,' she told the Star. 'We had a great time, but it's run its course—even though I remain fond of him. But I can't let my life be governed by him.'" Now these are alphas at the peak of their expectations, and many accept that life in the limelight means that one will have impossible expectations. It's unavoidable and irresistible. Regular people on the other hand can sometimes imitate celebrities, but everything is lesser in opulence and pride.

Beck - The Golden Age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6zAT15vaFk

Beck - Lost Cause: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iEId2vmb0M

Beck - Thinking About You: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6i7iPPiMy0

The typical situation for a guy at the beginning is when he finds a woman that is better than what he thinks he should get, and for many men, this is often in a new country or new town where they are anonymous, and there is hope that the women there have lower expectations. The danger of course, is that if he's not very experienced and desperate, the first time a woman gets him off, the sexual euphoria leads him to spend money and give in to all financial demands to fend off rejection. He may even notice he's being used in the background of his mind, but the sexual inertia prevents him from having financial boundaries, or any other boundaries where he's allowed to say no to bring back some self-respect. Women in poorer countries with lower expectations may still have access to media, like Instagram on their phones, and enviously follow the highlights of other people's lives. Weak boundaries for a man will open him up for exploitation anywhere in the world. Eventually, when the money is gone, so is she. "The great charm of narcissistic women has, however, its reverse side; a large part of the lover's dissatisfaction, of his doubts of the woman's love, of his complaints of her enigmatic nature, has its root in this incongruity between the types of object-choice." The alpha man with the greatest resources can also hang the woman out to dry as he tries to maximize his choice for the most desirable woman. Through projection, one's own love can fill in gaps that may be missing from the object-choice so that when love is unrequited, it's a shock for the dependent partner, even if there was never any concrete evidence of love returned or observable events to refer to. You can't wish, or the buzzword today, you can't manifest without observable effort and responses. There's a common pattern of illusion that persists in thinking this way. People leave red-flags hanging or go into denial rather than look at how things really are. Reality is never ideal, but there's more opportunity to learn and develop if one engages with the freshness that's there. Psychosis with unbending standards leads to stagnation.

The Verve - Lucky Man (Official Music Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6TJU0qWoY

Why Men STOP Dating Modern Women - Simp Culture - Manosphere: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB54SvKoyMA

How women select simps (why women choose simps) - Madison Chloe Loves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWMtGan651k

Why Men STOP Dating Single Mothers #10 - Manosphere: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSlCTY-8Cqc

Expat Warns Men: Don't Waste Your Time Looking For Girls In The Philippines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dIOJnGUZEc

Why Western Men Are Manipulated By Thai Women: https://youtu.be/fh7S8X5oA7Y?si=khhk0Wo5gerwmsSc

14 Common Lies Thai Girls Tell You - Mac TV Travel Learn Inspire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rd-6QTK8nc

The Ladyboy Extortion Scam | Joe Rogan & Mariana Van Zeller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWW5_Ls_Ufk

The Ladyboy beer scam Bangkok - Alpha Omega Occasionally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDcmI6-rMI0

Top 5 Dangers in Pattaya - Mac TV Travel Learn Inspire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYXn9r7V2Wc

The Dangers of Dating in Colombia (´´For Men´´) - Life with David: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgQLZMTyNp4

The Dark Secrets of Japanese Girls Exposed - K.D. Wilson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5jqYfW4xNE

Why Are 42% Of Japanese Men Virgins? | Japan's Virginity Epidemic "Herbivore Men": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m461t0_LCE

Red flag when dating a Korean girl - yunibxx: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TA5--YJEnl4

Why Nice Guys See Sex Workers - Sex Love, and Soul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5PH29jC44

Narcissist: Financial Control: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl6jO_IfMs0

Tips: Survive Your Borderline Enchantress - Sam Vaknin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy7526-ysCM

So how narcissistic love is for Freud, is based on how the subject rates themselves now in the eyes of others, how they rated before, how the company that they keep rates, and how they want to be rated in the future. On the other hand, the anaclitic, or dependent attachment type, is based on efforts, work, and resources needed from the other person, or can be provided, but one must add that these contributions are only dependent if the person has no boundaries to say no when they need to. In this way, those real efforts can be discounted if the ideals of the other partner are unreasonable. Being able to negotiate greatly improves the situation for the person who has lost their power. Again, it's important to have a good grasp of reality.

Those desires related to rating oneself high and choosing partners that are rated high, leads to children being an extension of those parents, like a trophy, a common example that is used, to pamper them and assume future honors and airs for the parents to bask in. They are expected to be a successful protagonist in the world. Of course, the skills required to do those things are either too much for the child or they are never even brought up, so the child becomes too spoiled to achieve anything later on. These ideals, harsh or too soft, are taken on by each generation and are repressive forces where the ego splits into an agency that watches present moment activity: the super-ego. "We can say that the one man has set up an ideal in himself by which he measures his actual ego, while the other has formed no such ideal. For the ego the formation of an ideal would be the conditioning factor of repression...This ideal ego is now the target of the self-love which was enjoyed in childhood by the actual ego. The subject's narcissism makes its appearance displaced onto this new ideal ego, which, like the infantile ego, finds itself possessed of every perfection that is of value. As always where the [craving] is concerned, man has here again shown himself incapable of giving up a satisfaction he had once enjoyed. He is not willing to forgo the narcissistic perfection of his childhood; and when, as he grows up, he is disturbed by the admonitions of others and by the awakening of his own critical judgement, so that he can no longer retain that perfection, he seeks to recover it in the new form of an ego ideal. What he projects before him as his ideal is the substitute for the lost narcissism of his childhood in which he was his own ideal." The need to worship a God, or parents, or powerful people, becomes an internal watcher ready to provide rewards for the ego, or punishments, based on whether behavior is successful or not. One is now worshipping one's own self-image.

Being both the center of the universe and the universe itself without boundaries in infancy is hard to compete with in adulthood. One has to become a "star" at whatever endeavors one tries so as to create a fandom to bask in that very feeling of being central and important. When there's stress or boredom, partners are better off trying to work together knowing that if they can develop enough skills together, they can find that flow again in the real world as it is. There's also wisdom in returning to a person's strengths in order to get a breather before taking on new challenges again. Unrelenting ideals can be a tyrant if one is not too careful.

Kylie Minogue - I Was Gonna Cancel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g0c9mv0j9E

I Was Gonna Cancel - Conception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Was_Gonna_Cancel#Conception

Exploitation and Engulfment

Freud saw that society is made up of rewards and punishments and as those are doled out so goes the psyche. Lou instead loved the rest found in meditative oneness, but one must have independent finances to make this work because of the independence of others who may not fund someone like Lou without enough reciprocation on their part. People will not always cooperate with your "oneness," and as said in prior episodes, Lou had an inheritance and decent book sales to be like an entrepreneur and always solvent. That independence afforded her the ability to meditate with nature, attend seminars and publish. She didn't really need a man and she wasn't pursuing motherhood.

For those who wanted a family, they had to work hard, both men and women, to create a new generation. Hedwig Dohm's insight into Lou's way of thinking tapped into the economic understanding of a zero-sum game that Freud had in that women would need a pension from day one, and if they didn't have money of their own, who would pay for them? It would be all those people who aren't women, which are men. They would be slaves because all their rewards would be garnished into oblivion. The economical reciprocity of the man giving his all for the woman ends when there are little to no rewards coming back. As much as women like Lou, who found home economics and child rearing a drudgery, men on the other hand went to work for bosses who were pitiless and who humiliated them, and they had to suffer periodic job losses requiring emotional support and some buffer of savings to move to the next prospect. When people had no rewards, savings and ownership to make decisions over their lives, the batteries drained and the craving energy moved towards self-preservation. This is when the institution of family fell apart as both men and women tried to escape their unrewarding exchanges. A meditative repose was now preferred in divorce for men, so as to let go of all the mental noise, conflict, and claims over one's body and resources. As Freud stated, "it is easy to observe that [a craved for] object-[investment] does not raise self-regard. The effect of dependence upon the loved object is to lower that feeling: a person in love is humble. A person who loves has, so to speak, forfeited a part of his narcissism, and it can only be replaced by his being loved. In all these respects self-regard seems to remain related to the narcissistic element in love."

Why I love being single and alone - Evan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wFdipkg--g

Study: Women Are Happier When Single: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I52UCZDwetw

Why Men Are Walking Away From Dating - Your Wingmam: https://youtu.be/wF5-W7oOBzQ?si=loI2Bmjr0VHXs5ng

Sexuality Pt 5: Sadism - Sigmund Freud & Beyond: https://rumble.com/v1gtssd-sexuality-pt-5-sadism-sigmund-freud-and-beyond.html

I live in Canada, and I think the following divorce statistics can be similar in the U.S. and Europe and are illustrative of the destruction of the institution of marriage in the modern world. The inability to handle boredom and stress with weak negotiation skills can explain the 40% divorce rate here. "34% of divorces are caused by domestic violence, verbal abuse, or physical abuse. Infidelity accounts for 27% of divorces. An average of 25% of couples report that money problems played a role in their divorce. In 41% of cases, money problems serve as a 'last straw' among many other issues that are already weakening the marriage. 38% of those who try couples counseling still get divorced once they stop going, though attending therapy can offer 4+ years of increased marriage satisfaction."

There are many reasons for divorce.

Infidelity, either emotional, physical, or financial, remains a leading cause of divorce.

Inability to resolve conflicts or argue productively.

Partners who have a lack of respect for one another, or verbal abuse.

A lack of physical intimacy.

Domestic violence.

Substance abuse.

Either partner feels the other is not 'carrying their weight.'

Significant financial problems, debt, and a lack of agreement on how money should be handled, saved, and spent.

Canadian Divorce Statistics - Merchant Law Group: https://www.merchantlaw.com/canadian-divorce-statistics/

So one can reverse engineer from these results to find strong supports to keep a marriage long-lasting. Boundaries with money and being able to follow a budget will scare off partners who refuse to cooperate. Learning negotiation skills can reduce shouting matches and escalation. Those skills can also allot duties amongst the family members. I would also add sublimation skills described below to allow appreciation to grow for chores so they appear less like a grind. Pursuing jobs that are fulfilling and that provide enough wealth for saving can also bolster boundaries so that people with excessive expectations can take a hike. A reasonable level of grooming, exercise, and taking care of oneself would also reduce feelings of disgust between partners, but again one must have standards that are lower than an artificial intelligence sex doll of the future. All humans get sick, have stinky pits, and fart from time to time. A reminder that ideals always remove details related to boredom and stress can also help people look at infidelity less like a cure-all for one's frustrations. This is why a patient that doesn't follow treatment, long enough for them to learn how to create healthy boundaries for themselves, will inevitably project illusions onto new relationships.

Freud was also aware of what happens to libido, energy, or craving, when an ego ideal is out of reach, so that one is able to give very little to others, but one is still making object-choices out of their league. A lot of people don't realize how much they have to work on themselves, as described above, before they can reasonably be considered a candidate for an alpha partner. They will only choose a partner like this because they enjoy someone who tolerates debasement and exploitation. "What possesses the excellence which the ego lacks, is loved. This expedient is of special importance for the neurotic, who, on account of his excessive object-[attachments], is impoverished in his ego and is incapable of fulfilling his ego ideal. He then seeks a way back to narcissism from his prodigal expenditure of [craving] upon objects, by choosing a sexual ideal after the narcissistic type which possesses the excellences to which he cannot attain. This is the cure by love, which he generally prefers to cure by analysis. Indeed, he cannot believe in any other mechanism of cure; he usually brings expectations of this sort with him to the treatment and directs them towards the person of the physician. The patient's incapacity for love, resulting from his extensive repressions, naturally stands in the way of a therapeutic plan of this kind. An unintended result is often met with when, by means of the treatment, he has been partially freed from his repressions: he withdraws from further treatment in order to choose a love-object, leaving his cure to be continued by a life with someone he loves. We might be satisfied with this result, if it did not bring with it all the dangers of a crippling dependence upon his helper in need."

This dependence leads one to be engulfed and absorbed by the more narcissistic object-choice, and this is because the ideal partner needs to get something they want in return and if this person with low self-esteem does not have what they want, then only a servile existence would be accepted, especially if they are already shopping for one kind of slave or another. "Freud's (secondary) narcissism assumed the removal of the charge from the object, a capitulation and regression to the primary narcissism. For Lou narcissism was connected to external objects, and their capture, their use [was as] extra-territorial markers of infinity. This appropriation of the object reminded her of the [engulfing actions] in amoebas. She wrote that love was not dissolution in another, but one's own strengthening all the way to a fruitful over-abundance: not being dissolved in another, but the opposite, through contact with this other, becoming fruitful, a strengthening to fruitful surplus. For our becoming fruitful itself was no longer, as with the amoeba, a self-decomposition into parts, but likewise already a partial function—a higher state of segregation, a condition of surplus."

Lou's dualism supported by a non-dual energy meant that some boundaries were allowed. What's not so clear is how extensive the boundaries are and what depletion is for her. Women who treat raising kids and keeping a home as a hobby can release energy so that it becomes less like drudgery, and one who is resistant and wants to do completely different activities will only feel depleted by housework. As in her book Deviations, the character Gabriele was able to pursue her independence through her work so that all work became less like drudgery. This meant her favorite subject of sublimation, which is to find what can be sublime in an end result of an activity, to do good work, or to do something well, and to take pleasure in that so no activities are excluded, allowed a way out for her. Of course Lou couldn't do that in all areas of her life and so it's up to the creativity of the woman, or even the man, to actively develop autotelic skills to see that the grass can be greener where you create interesting goals to make the means and ends the same. If the mind is distracted, the greener grass is always elsewhere, and craving needs to escape, frittering away all that energy generated by the concentration. When this happens home economics and raising children will always be a drag, and the children will also see this and probably repeat the same patterns of resistance and low energy. Almost all concentration in meditation practices creates a simplicity and a targeted level of energy to the task at hand so that energy is used efficiently. Daydreaming or rumination will always lead to depleting.

Lou Andreas-Salomé Pt. 3: https://rumble.com/v5gpvpp-lou-andreas-salom-pt.-3.html

Lou Andreas-Salomé Pt. 6: https://rumble.com/v5nm28z-lou-andreas-salom-pt.-6.html

How to gain Flow in 7 steps: https://rumble.com/v1gvked-how-to-gain-flow-in-7-steps.html

The Jhanas: https://rumble.com/v1gqznl-the-jhanas.html

Narcissistic self-sufficiency

Goddess-like indifference was the attractiveness that these types of women used to magnetize men, often unconscious of their low self-esteem, who wanted to partake of that serenity mixed with rapture. In the mind of the low status man, the goddess is so beautiful to the point of being too perfect, leading to a desperate craving to debase oneself with feelings of worship, like an obsessed fanatic. The man is in a frenzy of desperate attraction while the woman is unfazed like a cat that is curious and wondering what all the desperate commotion is about. The man's self-concern and narcissism completely vanishes without a trace, leading to the possible danger arising from healthy defenses being lowered. "Men loved such women, who required love from them. The narcissism of another person was found to be very attractive for those who renounced part of their own narcissism and were in search of an object of love. In a similar way the charm of a child lay in narcissism, self-sufficiency and inaccessibility, just like the charm of various animals, such as cats and large beasts of prey, which seem completely unaffected by our concern for them." For Freud this would be an imbalance in that the reward of love from the woman would always be goal posts moving farther away, mainly because ideals can never reproduced in the world, only approximated.

In Lou's conversations with Freud, he like Nietzsche, equated her with a cat self-sufficiency, and he knew that psychoanalysis was a reward for her, but psychoanalysis would have to need her more than she needed it. This dynamic caused jealousy as she was allowed leeway to modify theories without ostracism. Adler, Jung, Rank, Bjerre, etc., were all rejected and made into pariahs. He was welcoming when there was agreement, but when Lou went too far, he mercifully and politely chose to not take her inventions seriously. She would then respond by seeing where she may have gone in error and modify her theories while keeping aspects that were different, as long as they didn't do damage to the overall theory and anger Freud. He didn't want to lose the Oedipus Complex as the source of neuroses even when many people wanted to include the influence of the womb and how disappointing the world is in comparison with the instant gratification of the fetus. Freud had demonstrated his own feline self-sufficiency against all comers.

On Lou's side, women are essentially the goal because they are chased after by the man. The woman "'does not pursue the unattainable, the infinite. Why should she, being herself the goal?' Femininity, according to Lou, is that condition which man had lost. The teleologophallicism of a man, is what turned him inside out, doomed to the search for a lost object, always outside himself. A woman, on the other hand, preserved herself in her objectless narcissism. In Protagoras' formulation, it is precisely the woman who occupied man's place: woman is the measure of all things. A woman, according to Lou, is integral, complete, she lives in a unity of soul, mind, body, and feeling. Man, differentiated to a greater extent, is never integral, never satisfied, he is always in movement, searching." This goes into writers like René Girard and Jacques Lacan, where the lack of the object of desire is the sought after intensity, and if there's a chance in the mind that the pursuer will succeed, the sense of lack turns into an energetic anticipation that is pleasurable. On the other hand, if success in sexual gratification leads to rapture, the sense of familiarity fades over time the intensity into boredom, if one is not capable of appreciation, or sublimation. Those who are not capable of appreciation, sublimation, or they never find any success in romantic love, psychological illnesses of a variety of kinds can appear, especially an ontological sickness, or masochism, otherwise termed as low self-esteem, resentment, or self-hatred.

Girardian Primers:

Totem and Taboo - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gsmvn-totem-and-taboo-sigmund-freud.html

The Origin of Envy & Narcissism - René Girard: https://rumble.com/v1gsnwv-the-origin-of-envy-and-narcissism-ren-girard.html

Case Studies: Dora and Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gu2dt-case-studies-dora-and-freud.html

Stalking: World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day: https://rumble.com/v1gvhk1-stalking-world-narcissistic-abuse-awareness-day.html

Love - Freud and Beyond: https://rumble.com/v1gv5pd-love-freud-and-beyond.html

Psychoanalysis - Sigmund Freud and Beyond: https://rumble.com/v1gvgq7-psychoanalysis-sigmund-freud-and-beyond.html

Object Relations: Fear Of Success Pt. 2: https://rumble.com/v1gvuql-object-relations-fear-of-success-pt.-2.html

Object Relations: Fear Of Success Pt. 7: https://rumble.com/v3ub2sa-object-relations-fear-of-success-pt.-7.html

Object Relations: Melanie Klein Pt. 8: https://rumble.com/v50nczb-object-relations-melanie-klein-pt.-8.html

Sublimation

For those interested in developing their own ability to sublimate, a lot of it has already been described in the word sublime. Both Lou and Freud talked about how ideals can be used to motivate action towards goals. For Freud, some of these ideals have already been created in the ego-ideal, which is the kernel of the Super-ego. "The formation of an ideal heightens the demands of the ego and is the most powerful factor favouring repression; sublimation is a way out, a way by which those demands can be met without involving repression...Sublimation may take place regularly through the mediation of the ego...One part of self-regard is primary—the residue of infantile narcissism; another part arises out of the omnipotence which is corroborated by experience (the fulfilment of the ego ideal), whilst a third part proceeds from the satisfaction of object-[craving]...Being in love occurs in virtue of the fulfilment of infantile conditions for loving, we may say that whatever fulfils that condition is idealized."

We also gain a lot of ideas from role models on how to find interest in activities. "The other case will be recollected, in which the ego deals with the first object-[attachments] of the id (and certainly with later ones too) by taking over the [craving] from them into itself and binding it to the alteration of the ego produced by means of identification." The pleasing feeling of tension and release becomes non-sexual when a non-sexual goal or sub-goal is created for satisfaction, or another way of saying it: non-sexual goal-tension and release. "The transformation [of erotic craving] into ego-[craving] of course involves an abandonment of sexual aims, a desexualization." Ideals allow one to create a preference in the environment and if the preference to change something in the environment is not a sexual preference, then the motivation has now appropriated the craving. A craving to cook a good meal, for example, or to achieve something that a person feels is worthwhile. "By thus getting hold of the [craving] from the object-[attachments], setting itself up as sole love-object, and desexualizing or sublimating the [craving] of the id, the ego is working in opposition to the purposes of Eros and placing itself at the service of the opposing instinctual impulses. It has to acquiesce in some of the other object-[attachments] of the id; it has, so to speak, to participate in them." This means that love has to be involved in creativity.

Since so much stress and frustration is not being able to achieve goals without interruption from others, or for lacking skills needed for those goals, the art of being creative and satisfying what you can, becomes a way to stave off neurosis and it can take you far if hobbies and interests are found to be more fulfilling in one's time in this world. "The ego, by sublimating some of the [craving] for itself and its purposes, assists the id in its work of mastering the tensions." The irony is that if sublimations allow one to achieve gainful employment or successful businesses, it makes one attractive socially so as to give Eros what it always wanted in the end. In a world that tests man's survival skills, it makes sense that sublimation would be allowed to develop and adapt. Desexualization and resexualization happens when what is "sublime" or good, or something is found to be "worthwhile," appears in a goal that is socially valued. These goals create social rewards in the form of being attractive to others, but it initially requires a narcissistic ego-ideal, and identifications from role models, to desexualize and create goals that enhance self-esteem and attractiveness.

Sublimation - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gv2fr-sublimation-sigmund-freud.html

The Ego and the Id - Sigmund Freud: https://rumble.com/v1gvdo1-the-ego-and-the-id-sigmund-freud.html

Ideals as Energy

Going back to Nietzsche and through Freud and Andreas-Salomé, they all agreed that ideals are involved in motivation. They are preferences, and in fact, for Freud, you needed preferences in order to learn anything about craving as separate from the ego. "As regards the differentiation of psychical energies, we are led to the conclusion that to begin with, during the state of narcissism, they exist together and that our analysis is too coarse to distinguish between them; not until there is object-[attachment] is it possible to discriminate a sexual energy—[craving]—from an energy of the ego-instincts."

In Lou's letters to Freud, she wanted to elaborate on primary narcissism and the meditative oneness and unity without objects, and also the value of concentration and sublimation. "I cannot rid myself of the impression that one should to some extent differentiate the type of narcissism here defined as true narcissism from that type which represents a quite definite stage of development, in which the ego consciously chooses itself as object, i.e., it presupposes an object which it prefers to others, as is the case with self-admiration, vanity etc.; for in these there lies a cleavage, an impaired unity of the personality, whereas narcissism is rooted in the deepest naïveté there can be." Even in concentration, there is a loss of self-consciousness that is pleasurable and demonstrates a unity with the environment. "For while creating the artist is completely absorbed in his creation, and is quite unaware of the extremely personal and decisive relationship of his work to his own most intimate and infantile nature. It is only when he has awakened from this 'unconscious' explosion or else has not properly entered into it that he is thrown back into personal vanity, i.e., into the surplus [craving] directed towards himself as a person." Lou liked Freud's idea of harnessing the craving energy as opposed to Adler's need to treat "the [craving as if it] was something in the possession of the ego..." The ideals in the super-ego are fed by energy of the Id so craving energy can be taken with less resistance. Those who grind away without hankering for a project related preference, will have resistance for engagement compounded on top of normal tiredness and boredom.

Lou felt that the overrating of object-choices, especially in the extreme, would lead to constant disappointment, as described above, precisely because of the incomparable identity with oneness, and the rest found in passivity and repose of the embryonic unity. "This tension at the same time releases so much pleasure really arises from the psychical [craving]-state: i.e., from a state which desires a great deal more than mere relief, which strives to re-experience a union with its enormously overvalued sexual object, such as it perhaps enjoyed in the womb in its identity with its environment." This is the primal hurt for Lou, whereas the Oedipus Complex was for Freud. This could also be an influence for Freud's death drive, where the exhaustion of dealing with reality takes over and a person wishes to be inert to gain a primal peace, the Nirvana Principle. One can be tired of effort in general.

Beyond the Pleasure Principle - Freud & Beyond - War Pt. (2/3): https://rumble.com/v1gv855-beyond-the-pleasure-principle-freud-and-beyond-war-pt.-23.html

World as Reproduction of the Womb

Because this primal ideal is so influential in our preferences, it means that it is always with us in all our development. It's not something you only find when you are disappointed with an object and want to retreat. "Accordingly, narcissism is not limited to a single phase of [craving], but is a part of our self-love which accompanies all phases. It is not merely a primitive point of departure of development but remains as a kind of fundamental continuity in all the subsequent object-[attachments] of [craving],—which in fact, in Freud's metaphor, stretches forth pseudopods to objects, like the amoeba, only to withdraw them when need arises." This withdrawal helps to delineate the different kinds of defenses used and which object-choices are now repressed with phobias. "'Sick' and 'healthy' signify the false or true mutual relationships of the two inner tendencies, as they limit or further one another...If self-preservative and self-assertive drives should be conceptually separated from [craving] drives, then [craving] must constitute the connecting link between the desire for individuality and the contrary movement toward conjugation and fusion. In this dual orientation of narcissism the relations of [craving] would be expressed in our being rooted in our original state; we remain embedded in it, for all our development, as plants remain in the earth, despite their contrary growth toward the light. Even the physical processes of sex and procreation are bound to units which remain undifferentiated, and the erogenous zones are the residues of an infantile state from which the bodily organs have long since been separated in the service of self-preservation."

Lou reinterpreted the story of Narcissus by taking her bad experience of seeing her reflection in the mirror and expanding things beyond the reflection of the individual. More is in the reflection, especially when gazing at a puddle outdoors in nature. "Bear in mind that the Narcissus of legend gazed, not at a man-made mirror, but at the mirror of Nature. Perhaps it was not just himself that he beheld in the mirror, but himself as if he were still All: would he not otherwise have fled from the image, instead of lingering before it?" Reading between the lines, it appears as if Lou wants to wait for inspiration, or the overflow of craving to arise from a meditative resting state, and then to act only then, which goes against the modern world full of deadlines and time pressure. When people feel replenished from meditation, there are natural desires that arise without effort and overflow until activity responds to that energy. When the energy is inhibited, like when there is fear or grinding exhaustion, the need for rest returns. Craving also withdraws when goals are too difficult. "St. Augustine's remark is apt: 'I was in love with love'. So objects appear to deeper observation to be mere occasions for unburdening an excess of love,—love belonging to ourselves, and not finding an outlet. The question of how we divert our self-love to object [craving] has often been answered by Freud by such a concept of overflow."

If the activities are rewarding, it's possible to repeat addictively as object-attachments increase, and if they are not rewarded, the cravings and actions withdraw. Lou felt that oneness in primal narcissism was not archaic or primitive from Freud's point of view because there it has the advantage of relief from effort and monotony. "Freud has come to maintain an absolute opposition between a first (objectless) narcissistic state and object-relations. This primitive state, now called primary narcissism, is supposed to be characterized by the total absence of any relationship to the outside world, and by a lack of differentiation between ego and id; intrauterine existence is taken to be its prototypical form, while sleep is deemed a more or less successful imitation of that ideal model."

Oneness is the reduction of tension and separation, which is only achieved conventionally when the release appears after tension, in normal goal achievement, a dualistic rediscovery of ideal oneness. "In the final analysis every object is a substitute, and in the strict psychoanalytic sense a symbol, for all that abundance of unconscious meaning, inexpressible itself, associated with it. From the point of view of [craving], no object [attachment] possesses any reality beyond this symbolic one. The quantum of pleasure derived from it is quite comparable to that which Ferenczi once described as 'the pleasure of rediscovery: the tendency to rediscover the beloved in all manner of things in the hostile world outside probably accounts for the formation of symbols'. To which we would add object [craving] itself as essentially narcissistic in its substance and provenance. Psychoanalysis contends that the later [craved] objects are transferences of the earliest; in essence this means that a [craved] object is a transference from an earlier undifferentiated unity of subject and object to an individualized external image."

We can take from this that when there's trauma or disappointment, a narcissistic wounding arises which signifies a fear of rejection, from needed social relationships and our sense of survival, of being left out of heaven. This leads to concerns about ethics and the impact of our goals on others. When people say "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me," people are trying to defuse the power of normal defensive reactions to circle the wagons around one's self-concept. "Quite apart from guilt feeling, the ego is confronted by its omissions and commissions, and also by a feeling of disillusion with life and existence. So do we acknowledge our shortcomings not with [strict observance of tradition] or abjectness as if they were external, but we are wounded at the point of primal attachment surviving in our narcissism."

Even if we can never recreate the instant gratification of the womb, creativity and flow for Lou is the second best option. "Human-all-too-human are the three elements adhering to artistic creativity: the struggle against repressions which have to be overcome, the danger of sliding into infantile materiality, and lastly the hurry and the overstrain. Otherwise the work would be a guide to blessedness like nothing else on earth, a rejoicing in the incredible fullness of union between intoxication and peace." The brain enjoys novelty, beauty, pleasure, progress, alleviated repression, love, friendship, and harmony. To get out of self-consciousness Lou emphasizes that "we are, rather than we are." To Lou's credit, she saw the value of the Reality Principle, which was a big influence for Anna Freud.

Life needs preferences and ideals to support energy and motivation, so as to make good memories on this imperfect planet, while the wear and tear of life, old age, and disappointments bring back the desire for death, oneness and the ending of tedium. Lou's ideal maybe an attempt to recreate the womb in all of our communities, our exchanges with others, building the comfortable cocoons we live in, but the closest to a permanent imperviousness we can achieve is when we return to the earth.

Frau Lou: Nietzsche's Wayward Disciple - Rudolph Binion: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780691618609/

On Narcissism - Sigmund Freud: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9781780491080/

The Ego and the Id - Sigmund Freud: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780393001426/

My Sister, My Spouse - H.F. Peters: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780393007480/

Fiebert, Martin. (1997). Fiebert, M. S. In and out of Freud's shadow: A chronology of Adler's relationship with Freud.. Individual psychology. 53. 241-269.

Markotic, L. (2001). There Where Primary Narcissism Was, I Must Become: The Inception of the Ego in Andreas-Salomé, Lacan, and Kristeva. American Imago 58(4), 813-836.

Wang, B. (2000). Memory, Narcissism, and Sublimation: Reading Lou Andreas-Salomé's Freud Journal. American Imago 57(2), 215-234.

The Freud Journal - Lou Andreas-Salomé: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780704300224/

Sigmund Freud and Lou Andreas-Salomé letters: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780393302615/

The Standard Edition Of The Complete Psychological Works Of Sigmund Freud - Volume XII (Types of onset of Neurosis): https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780099426653/

Victor Mazin - The Femme Fatale - Lou Andreas-Salomé - The European Journal of Psychoanalysis, Number 14, Winter-Spring 2002

The Language of Psychoanalysis - Jean Laplanche and Jean-Bertrand Pontalis: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780367328139/

The Psychopathic Mind - J. Reid Meloy: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780876683118/

Psychology: http://psychreviews.org/category/psychology01/

[tyszkewich]

• ME can either be a BAD ME when they grew out from punishment.

• GOOD ME when they grew out from rewards.

• NOT ME when their security operations work to cope with their anxiety

[cinematic-literature]

Stardust Memories (1980) by Woody Allen

Book title: The Psychiatric Interview (1970) by Harry Stack Sullivan

This is the Norton Library edition

[3rdgymbros]

me, reading about how this theorist had his first relationship when he was 8.5, with a boy from a neighbouring farm:

[gatheringbones]

["Today, a “good” family model is based on an ideology called “loyalty” or, more neo-liberally, “being supportive.” Often this is one in which the members reinforce each other regardless of the content of their lives and the consequence of their actions on others. They are “always there for you.” They overpraise in a broad sense. George W. Bush may be a war criminal, but his family is always there for him. As Edith Weigert recalled about Harry Stack Sullivan’s observation, families can create a “deprivation of indulgence.” No standard for how to treat others is forged. They can reproduce class and gender Supremacy systems by not expecting their members to face and deal with conflict, to learn how to take care of themselves or others, to literally and spiritually clean up after themselves, or to be self-critical.

As a result, family members learn how to be exploitative, expectant, and entitled. They learn to view some jobs as beneath them or some paths as above them; they understand that accountability is beyond them because they always have the family and its emotional resources to fall back on. They can come to expect a level of gender, class, or race Supremacy without having to work or earn their comforts. From the family’s perspective, this is considered “love.”

Some “good” bourgeois families build their strength at the expense of others, especially others in need or who don’t have a family. It’s inherent to the construction of the bourgeois classes. The family says “no” to others in order to enhance their own status. The family puts its own privileges first, positioning the rest of the world as a threat to their time and resources, or even their double standard. Bizarrely, we have deceived ourselves into believing this is responsible behavior, even though it only serves the state and its embedded classes, not the broad community. It defines itself by in-group silence about each other’s cruelties to outsiders and preservation of its resources for its own exclusive use.

Of course, no one is being asked to purposely disable their children’s futures by restricting them from enjoying superior education, health care, or living conditions. But rather, I am asking for some reality about the meaning and values and consequences of entitling our bourgeois children to dominate, even if the entitled don’t know how to best implement alternatives. And I am suggesting that some of this is inherent to social definitions of the mother role, particularly as it adheres to state systems of dominance.

(...) The “bad” family, as we understand it, is the opposite of this Supremacy model. Instead of bonding with each other to the detriment of outsiders, the family turns on its own members directly, demeaning them, beating them, fucking them, conditioning them towards self-destructive and socially detrimental behaviors. As my father once told me, “Families do worse things to their own members than they do to other people. They kill them, they rape them, they burn them in boiling oil.” And he was right.

The problem with this pathological dichotomy is that when “bad” families destroy their own members, they produce people so traumatized that they can’t problem-solve with others and become the source of impulsive, triggered acting out: e.g., blaming others, committing violence, overstating harm, bringing in the police or the state in lieu of problem-solving. The problem with “good” families is that they do the same thing, but from a place of over-privilege and Supremacy, so that when they are cruel and unfair, their family members “stand by” them, and create no consequences for their actions. Both of these systems hurt other people’s lives and produce new adults who don’t know how to be responsible and to problem-solve, who are entitled to a level that is detrimental to the rest of the world. And the rest of us have to live with these people. Even if we also are them, taking into account our earlier recognition that Supremacy and Trauma can exist in the same body.

I believe that a truly “good” family is one that is deeply and in fact primarily concerned with the behavior of its members towards other people. That instead of reinforcing indifference, exploitative behavior, arrogance about class, race or gender, blind allegiance to the state, and cruelty towards sexual partners, they systematize methods of accountability. In this way, each family member would grow up with a loving practice of opposition, with the commitment to psychological insight, individuation, and a means of discussion that emphasizes context, objective, and the order of events. Blind adherence would be the definition of “disloyalty,” as it is detrimental to peace and justice. Our model for relationships within groups can be transformed from obedience to biology, biological assumption, or simulacra of biology, emphasizing instead the ethics of each individual’s actions, cumulative consequence, and the necessity of self-criticism. In other words: accountability."]

Sarah Schulman, Conflict Is Not Abuse