#hadestown analysis

[alyona11]

I just had this thought but… Since Chant states that both Hades and Persephone are deaf/blind it means that if Hades’ wake up song is Epic III, then Persephone’s is If It’s True. Which I somehow never gave a deeper thought because I always think of IIT as of a big character moment for Orpheus but damn it’s really interesting to think about!

How Long is the first time we see Persephone sober and her sudden change is provoked by Orpheus in If It’s True. It’s double interesting because Hadestown Persephone’s sin is her passiveness and sort of inability to say no to Hades in many ways: in her going with him in Way Down Hadestown, in her seeing and clearly not liking the state of the realm in Chant but not willing to fight Hades on that or make the change, in her closing her eyes on her relationship and drowning herself in wine. Orpheus breaking down yet finding powers to stand out for himself and the others and even directly calling her out on her lack of action (at least I interpret the ending of the song where Orpheus looks at her with kind of judgment like that) is what is making her finally put the matters in her own hands and try to talk to Hades.

It again adds to the idea that Hades isn’t the only problem in Hadestown. There are two people in this relationship and both have to change in order for things to work out. We just mostly stoplight Hades as the main problem and a sort of villain in this story because he is so proactive but we kinda ignore that Persephone’s passiveness is complicit in the state of the world and in Hadestown. She needs to be woken up as much as Hades does. It’s Hades who has deprived the dead of their eternal peace but it was Persephone who never said a word. It was Hades who came too early to get her home before her time but it was her who took his hand and walked into the train. I do love the depth it gives to Persephone as a character, she does feel like a real person.

[itsorpheus420]

I just want to say that I don't know whether someone has noticed this before but Hermes seems to represent hope in Hadestown.

He is the one who pushes Orpheus to go to Hadestown, he is the one to herald Persephones comings and goings.

He is a narrator, but he also represents the characters hopes and when they loose them.

As seen in way down Hadestown reprise, he is featured in that song narrating the state of Hadestown because it represents Eurydice's loss of hope, and when she truly looses hope, Hermes stops singing and the Fates start their chanting once again.

Hermes Hope and the Fates doubt is a recurring theme throughout the musical, the fight between hope and doubt. In the end, Doubt wins out but Hope begins the song again, in the hopes that this time, the song will be different.

So the musical ends with this hopeful song of them starting the musical again, masking the tragedy.

We see in nothing changes that Orpheus looses his hope temporarily, sending Hermes off stage

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxxCMMpZXaoNhsfiWYRijvcGHCevzJqupG?si=_t1whH9b4jYMYyhS

Another reason why I love if it's true, Hermes represents the hope of the workers as they rise to help Orpheus

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxogZ6ocH9Xx4lqvibW3G3lDIvhlzdIBj-?si=SNQRVSAdZ5eXtEI4

This is Hermes once again going off stage

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAmjAe2Hpw9wRCDE1PFAnaXMcm__Gdub9?si=yO78jZzPQHG7Cl1l

There is a reason why Hermes wears silver like the fates, it's because he is their true antithesis. The war between hope and doubt

[madbard]

“You said that you would stay with me…”

As much as I love the 2019 original broadway cast recording of Hadestown, I will always miss the 2017 original cast recording for one major reason: the song “Promises.”

This song comes right after “Epic lll.” At this point, Orpheus has just made his greatest gambit, singing the song he’s been working on for years in the hopes of restoring balance to the world, now in a desperate plea to free Eurydice. After years of bitterness, of loneliness, rejection and pain, Hades and Persephone have finally embraced each other. They are dancing, and as they dance, Orpheus and Eurydice realize that they did it. They can go home.

In the 2019 recording, this moment is pure sweetness as Eurydice immediately reaches out to her exhausted lover, asking him to take her home. After the emotional hurricane that was the rest of the musical, there is a sense of joy and relief. The lovers are reunited. The story is almost over, and they are so glad to see each other again. It’s romantic, certainly… but something is missing.

In the 2017 recording, Eurydice still sings first. But she doesn’t ask Orpheus to take her home. Instead, she reminds him of the promises he made to her. She reminds him of his sweet words, of how those sweet words were torn apart by the winter winds, the pangs of hunger. She doesn’t absolve herself of blame, either. The music is soft and sad as she admits to breaking her vows, to flying away when times got rough. Orpheus replies in kind. We can hear the strain in his voice as he reminds Eurydice of the promises she made him, the future he had dreamed of - the future she may have destroyed. This conversation is quiet and heavy. Both blame the other; both accept blame. In the quiet, they admit to the pain and suffering they put each other through. They lay each broken promise bare. And then - they make a new promise. They choose to walk together.

Hadestown is such a multifaceted musical, intersecting with environmentalism, capitalism, greed, and so many other themes. For me though, the core of the musical will always be its story about failure and forgiveness, about the ways the people we love can hurt us. For me, Hadestown is a story about the risks we take when we forgive those people, and about that shining, quiet hope that maybe, just maybe, they won’t turn around this time. Maybe, we can find our way back home.

The 2019 version might be sweeter, more romantic. But it is the 2017 version that resonates because it shows, in the moment of calm after catastrophe, exactly how painful forgiveness can be.

[themidnightwitch44]

This is even more unhinged than my falsettos costume analysis bare with me

The placement and use of and VISIBILITY of actors mics can actually impact the story.

For this I’m using Falsettos and Hadestown to compare/contrast.

(And like… obviously budget and people and a ton of tech factors probably go into this, I’m simply looking at this from a narrative standpoint)

For a lot of big professional productions (like Broadway), the actors personal mics (I’m gonna call them body mics) are in their hair. There’s a few moments in the Falsettos pro shot (I think specifically in act 2?) where you can see them. But like… I only saw them because I was curious about WHERE their mics were placed.

On the other hand, everyone’s mics in Hadestown are SUPER obvious. Like… high school level production obvious. And sure, it could be a budget thing, but I genuinely doubt it.

I genuinely think that in Hadestown, SEEING the mics makes sense, because we KNOW it’s a story.

We are TOLD that it’s a story.

And what’s a good way to show that other than to not hid mics?

And on the other hand in falsettos, everyone’s mics are hidden because one (1), common practice, and two (2), we’re not as much watching a story play out in front of us like Hadestown, watching an intentionally replayed tale, but we’re watching lives, we’re watching people LIVE

[hadestownreconstruction]

8!!!! i love this project❤️

Here's something I wrote about Persephone's development across the productions! It was originally posted as a comment under one of Patrick Page's Instagram posts.

I've always thought that removing the workers in Our Lady of the Underground was an interesting developmental choice. Persephone’s speakeasy acting as a place to re-humanize the workers made her an agent against Hades’ absolute rule. By removing the workers, it also removes what remains of her actions directly against his will, making her more complacent in what’s happening in Hadestown. It’s the conclusion of the developmental path she’d been on; in early versions (2006-07 and thenabouts), Persephone seemed outwardly supportive of Hades, a sort of perfect wife, while acting behind his back in her speakeasy (to the point of sheltering Orpheus there). While I’m missing information on some key workshops, from what we do know it looks like as productions pass she becomes more vocal against him, while doing less to actually subvert his will in any meaningful way. Where once the speakeasy was the act of ultimate rebellion against him, now it is nothing but a pastime for her. She has become entirely complacent with the mistreatment of the workers.

Some understandably dislike this progression and conclusion, but I find it to be fitting. What is more accurate to our time than someone in a position of power only making superficial gestures to support those that need it, when they are in some cases the only ones with the capacity to create actual change? Persephone's resistance to meaningful action feels like a very appropriate character and narrative choice.

Hope you like the analysis! Thanks for the support!

[sorrowssorrowsprayers]

Orpheus' character development works against him.

He gets too caught up working on the song and is so confident in their love that he takes her presence for granted. He doesn't notice the weather growing colder or their stomachs getting hungrier. It is that cold, that hunger that drives Eurydice to Hadestown.

He goes after her. He makes a deal with the God of the Underworld. Hades gives him a chance.

Doubt comes in, not because he doesn't love her, but because he does. Doubt comes in because he felt assured of her presence before, and he was wrong, and he lost her. He can not bear to lose her again, and so he turns around to check that she's still with him, and then -

That's the tragedy.

But sure, let's make jokes about him turning around...

[talentlessmuse]

Alright everyone, I saw a post recently talking about Hadestown costuming, specifically in reference to the removal of layers of clothing representing the characters revealing more of themselves as people.

I want to talk about an aspect of the costume design as well, but instead of being about the bigger themes of the costuming overall, I'm going to focus in on one aspect of one costume because I find it very interesting.

I present to you Mr Hades in his Act II attire:

There's a lot that's been discussed about his costume both in terms of aesthetics and what it represents from a character and storytelling aspect. I'm not looking at the costume as a whole though. Specifically, I want to talk about the bands he's wearing around his arms because they are far more interesting as a design choice than I think most people realize.

Those bands are called sleeve garters. Yes, garters weren't just for holding stockings up on your legs or to be used as a part of modern wedding traditions. In the past, men would wear specifically designed garters on their shirtsleeves.

Nothing strange about that. Was quite common back in the latter part of the 19th century and into the early 20th century because ready made shirts were all made with a single extra long sleeve length. Men wore the garters to let them customize the sleeve length to fit when wearing the shirt under a jacket and so that the shirt cuffs wouldn't become dirty from daily use.

Okay. It's normal. Why is it worth focusing on then?

Because the sleeve garter was normal for the working class. The wealthy would get their shirts tailored and have the sleeves adjusted to fit them. Not wearing sleeve garters was another show--if a slightly more subtle one--of wealth.

We know Hades is wealthy. The lyrics make that very clear to the audience, so why is he wearing them?

Like what they do with the tattoo, it manages to call back to the idea of Hades having built himself up. Those sleeve garters are something a working man would wear, and for someone who is as conspicuous about his wealth and power as Hades is, it's an interesting choice. He dresses in fine suits and doesn't have to worry about getting his hands dirty anymore now that he has workers, but he still chooses to wear sleeve garters. Personally, I like to think he has a number of little behaviors that call back to that time when he wasn't the king of silver and of gold. Things he isn't even consciously aware of but hasn't managed to shake because he did know what it was like to have nothing.

The truth is probably that he wears them because aesthetic. It looks appropriately old-timey and also just looks good as a part of the whole ensemble, especially with the snakeskin design on them. Excellent costuming choice there. However, if that was an intentional choice, I have nothing but absolute love for whoever had that idea.

[oof-i-did-it-agaaiiin]

Thinking about how many musical tragedies feature the narrative almost as a character of its own. Like a force within the story, divided from the characters. Out of their control at times.

Orpheus had to turn around, that’s just how it goes. That’s the way the story is told.

Tony had to go and get himself killed. Of course he did. He’s Romeo. The story wills it so.

Jesus must die. No matter how much he wanted to live, no matter how much the people around him wanted him to live. It’s his role to die.

Alison can’t go back and change the events of that last car ride with her father. It’s set in stone, there in the past where it will always remain.

And then there are musicals like Once On This Island and Ride The Cyclone that embrace the role of inevitability in their stories and find joy anyway.

And then on the exact opposite side of the spectrum there’s the radical freedom from the narrative that’s seen in Into The Woods. The narrator is dead and now the story is no one’s but the characters. And there’s the lack of protection that comes with that, the chaos and confusion. But it’s theirs and it’s tragic but they make the best with it.

Those themes of Inevitability vs. Freedom and the meta understanding of story within a story. I can’t seem to get enough.

[mistresscitrusslice]

Jayce is mostly not like Orpheus because even though he tried to bring his bf science buddy back, Viktor still came back wrong regardless of whether or not Jayce had doubt (even when he did have doubt he didn’t falter. Jayce >>> Orpheus)

However, Jayce IS like Hadestown Orpheus in that in Season 1 he spent 100% of his lab time post-Council promotion working on a way to save Viktor’s life and cure him. He didn’t even notice that Viktor was already fading until it was too late. Orpheus toiled away on a song to fix the seasons for Eurydice and make life easier for her, but he was so consumed by this labor of love that he didn’t even notice his girlfriend already fucking died/left for Hadestown.

Viktor and Eurydice, both feeling neglected by the one that was supposed to stay by their side, are forced to take matters into their own hands and trade their autonomy for life/livelihood. Both of them also thought it would give them more autonomy but ended up with someone/something controlling them instead.

[jackwhiteprophetic]

TODAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT ORPHEUS AND EURYDICE AGAIN and thinking about how this scene looks like one of them just turned around and the stillness and the breathing and the eye contact and "I thought we would have more time" plastered on both of their faces HOW DID WE EVER MOVE PAST THIS

[attheendoftheline]

I could talk for days about the costuming in the show, and I probably will. One of the small details I’d like to point out is Persephone’s hair. It’s easy to point and talk about her change from vibrant greens to dressing like she is headed for a funeral but I think her hair speaks volumes (ha)

Up top Persephone let’s herself loose. She’s dancing and moving- hell! She floats from person to person absolutely buzzing with excitement as everyone in the bar is so alive - literally! She’s loose and very telling with her body language. Her hair is down and wild as she is. She has a nice bit of flowers braided in too.

Down below she’s stiff. It’s like her clothes confine her just as much as the town and hades himself does. She still moves and has expression but she’ll toss her wrist instead of something full body. She gestures , she stands and she walks instead of floating. Here her hair is put into a snood, her hair is caged. All that wild energy is subdued, even the little flowers on it are black and dead (likely as apart of the snood and not real flowers but the point stands).

I just— this show has so much loving detail put into it down to the floors and the smallest fiber oh costumes and I’m so in love.

[alyona11]

Hi! So I am very new to Hadestown and I am watching the bootleg. I really love the dynamic between Hades and Persephone, but there is one thing that kind of rub me in not so good way, is Hey Little Song Bird implied that Hades and Eurydice slept together? I am seeing a lot of interpretation and it genuinely confused the hell out of me asdfghk

Hi! Well, tbf it's a tricky question, but the short answer is that Hadestown suggests that something might have happened behind closed doors. The rest is up to audience and actor's interpretation.

For example, Anaïs Mitchell often mentions in Working On a Song that in early workshops she often went with the idea that Hades cheats and pretty regularly even though these affairs mean nothing to him since the only person he loves is Persephone. It even had a cut song:

In her early drafts/productions of Hadestown you can often get the vibe that from her point of view it doesn't matter as much because they are eternal beings and love each other since the world began so does it even matter for them?

However, by NYTW this story line was cut apart from Persephone's line in How Long:

"I don't mind if you look at other girls, now and then"

"The girl means nothing to me"

"I know"

Plus the staging in NYTW Papers and Hades' protective peacock behavior with Eurydice around Orpheus in the scene also gives you a thought that they might have had an affair? Plus some bits like the fact that she has a line in Why We Build a Wall and her words "But don't you see? That's different with me!" - "Different than who? They thought they were different too!" Could also be interpreted as Hades suggesting some special conditions by granting her a role of a romantic interest. Whether the interest is real or not and did he use it or not is again up to your interpretation of NYTW Hades. He is more of a morally dubious guy (as all ht Hades are) so it's more up to you to either believe he would have cheated to put Persephone in her place or would just use showing off Eurydice as a brutal way to get Persephone's interest.

As for Broadway, I think it's still suggested and you can find profs in the lyrics but I think that they are what they are - suggestive and leave you to interprete it whichever way you feel comfortable. I think the biggest suggestion remains in Flowers with the line:

'I trembled when he laid me out

"You won’t feel a thing," he said, "when you go down"'

Which kinda can have a death meaning and sex meaning, tbf someone could have written a good article on how those topics are connected in Hadestown. So here, again chose one of the two or both.

But again, Broadway also changed the lyrics in How Long and the whole staging in Papers so it's less suggestive.

My personal opinion based on Broadway production is that it all depends on how the actor plays it and whether you believe this particular Hades is the type to sleep with Eurydice to get Persephone's attention and prove he is still attractive or he is more of a person who doesn't care about having the affair and his only goal is to get Persephone to react somehow by composing such a messed up hurtful plan. Personally, I prefer the second option maybe because I'm a pussy or maybe because I see Hades (whom I mostly base on Patrick Page ht Broadway previews) like a person who is desperate to get Persephone's attention in such a radical way like a cat pushing objects from your table to see your reaction. He wants to be stopped, he wants any reaction from Persephone. He even touches her by the shoulder before going into the office like "Look!! Look! I'm absolutely totally leaving! To cheat! See! Hey come on! I'll even take off my tie to show that I'm serious! Don't you wanna stop me???". Seems kinda way too extra to me. Like he could have just gotten to the office after parading a pretty girl in front of her and it would be understood that it's for an affair. But he takes so much time to make sure she understands that he can find himself someone when all he wants is for her to come back to him with open arms. I'm not sure he has the guts to actually damage his relationship to an irreversible degree (considering Broadway Hades is never stated as a cheater before the Eurydice sub-plot). Like it's one thing to take a mortal before her time and parade her in front of your wife (because what is a mortal life after all?) as a "replacement" and it's the other way to actually cheat on her and deal with the fact that she might never forgive him again if it is a deal-breaker for her considering they seem to be true to each other for all these years.

One interesting thing to note here as well is how Hades actors play the reaction to Persephone's line in How Long:

"He has the kind if love that you and I once had"

Because his instant reaction is "OH SHIT once had?? Does she think I don't love her still?? OH SHIT I BROUGHT THE GIRL THIS IS WHY SHE MIGHT THINK THAT", so he answers to that:

"The girl means nothing to me!"

Depending on the actor and she show the line sounds either scared, confused, angry, undignified etc. So it's once again up to you to interprete why he reacts this way: is he angry because she suggested he would actually cheated on her? Is he angry because she called him out on that affair? Is he confused and scared because she thinks he doesn't love her anymore because of his foolish decision to tease her in such a cruel way?

That's up to you.

P.S. I think one of the most interesting studies of the subject and Hades' character that I've read in a fic for that matter was the Songbird chapter of Winters Nigh and Summers O're. You can check it out, but I will warn you that it's probably one of the heaviest chapters of that fic in the emotional sense and it has explicit parts (don't worry, nothing bad happens to Eurydice. Well...apart from dying, I guess), so check out the warnings if you decide to read it.

[ratcarney]

not to make ANOTHER hadestown comparison post but i feel so much more determination in damonpheus’s wait for me than i do in reevepheus’s. however, when it comes to the end of the song, damon’s descending “wait”s are getting more and more unsure, like he’s losing steam by the end. his final “wait” is also sung by him alone, as eurydice drops off after the penultimate “wait.” this is not an issue of performance; damon’s orpheus is actively losing the confidence with which he started the show. the doubt is coming in, if you will.

meanwhile, the very purpose of broadway’s wait for me is to demonstrate reevepheus’s capacity for strength and courage—a capacity that the audience has not seen thus far (sorry, reeve). the middle section with the fates and the show-stopping finale is proof that reeve’s orpheus can hold his ground and he can be the one to rescue eurydice.

this is one of the many reasons i prefer broadway orpheus’s character arc—it follows a pattern (anxiety -> courage -> doubt) that NYTW orpheus does not possess the capacity for. the audience sees orpheus gain confidence only to tragically crash and burn when doubt inevitably comes in. this is a necessary aspect of the show; without the tragedy, hadestown wouldn’t be half as memorable or brilliant as it is. as much as we would all love to see damon daunno sing the end of broadway wait for me, it just doesn’t align with his character.

[theultimatenonbinarynerd]

The Tragic Tale of Eurylochus, Orpheus And Not Looking Back.

Introduction

I need Hades Town and Epic fans to forgive me for what I'm about to write.

All I ask is that Eurylochus haters stay away cos this post is not to bash on Eurylochus.

So I haven't seen much of Hadestown but I know of the myth so when brainstorming for a Eurylochus God Games as part of a Eurylochus Lives au I pondered what would convince Persephone to let Eurylochus live and then I realised Assurance. Persephone needs assurance another Orpheus won't happen. If she lets Eurylochus live she needs assurance he won't be like Orpheus. She needs to know Eurylochus would look forward instead of back.

Then the Epic Writers sever inspired me more and I realised especially in Epic and Hadestown Eurylochus and Orpheus's tale share a lot of tragic similarities. Eurylochus and Orpheus are men who doubted, looked back and it then cost them everything.

I gotta say the Eurylochus and Orpheus parallels fascinate me more than Eurylochus and Odysseus swapping character arcs in Epic.

So let me elaborate on what I think makes Eurylochus and Orpheus so similar

Eurylochus and Orpheus's Doubt

We all know the myth. Hades promised Eurdice could return if Orpheus guided her out of The Underworld and didn't look back and it went well until at the Last Second Orpheus looked back. He wanted to protect his loved ones but let the doubt consume him. Sound familiar?

"Everything's changed since Polites."

"Let's see what you got."

"But Sir, it's too late."

"I don't want to see another life end."

What do all these lines have in common.

They're Eurylochus looking back at his mistakes. He opened the Windbag because he lost trust in Odysseus after he lost Polites in the cave. He immediately gives up when he realises his mistake of opening the windbag. Polyphemus's cave messes him up so badly that he doesn't want to lose anyone else. Orpheus didn't want to permanently lose Eurdice and Eurylochus didn't want to lose the men that had kept him sane for ten years.

Eurylochus like Orpheus is willing to get tasks done but when doubt creeps in its game over. Orpheus follows Hermes and Hades instructions yet still fails. Eurylochus stays loyal to Odysseus yet fails.

It's really heartbreaking to think about cos like how if Orpheus didn't look back. If Eurylochus listened to "I need you to always be devout and comply with this or we'll all die in this." then Mutiny would have ended differently. I understand Eurylochus though. Odysseus selfishly withheld Syclla from them and it cost them great friends.

However there was no other way cos Odysseus had doomed them with Poseidon so to him six men was better then all of them. You should have told them Ody.

Back on topic. If Eurylochus is Orpheus who is his Eurdice. Simple Ctimene. In Horse and The Infant Odysseus promises his men that if they do what he saids they'll see their wives and children again. Odysseus is Eurylochus's Hades. All though not a good bargin Odysseus promised Eurylochus he'd see Ctimene if he obeyed. Hades promised Orpheus, Eurdice would be free if he didn't look back.

"Don't make me fight you brother, you know you'd have done the same."

Odysseus is wrong here. Eurylochus has swapped roles with Odysseus to the point the crew have become his Eurdice. Metaphorically the crew represent all of Eurylochus's doubts.

Like the chorus do for Orpheus in Hadestown who are his subconscious.

"Show her the way."

Eurylochus was never gonna survive because he learned from Polites and Odysseus and tried to be kinder. Orpheus was never gonna get Eurdice cos he was destined to look back out of love and concern.

When Eurylochus looks back he does it for the same reason. He's concerned for his crew and even though hunger got them into this mess through Polyphemus's cave he still does it.

Now let's get back to the ending of this heartbreaking myth. Orpheus holds Eurdices hand but then at the last minute looks back. It's so sad and inevitable. Hades from experience tells Orpheus to not looks back but he does.

"Please don't tell me your about to do what I think you'll do."

Odysseus is Hades in this situation. Polyphemus's Cave and Poseidon has taught him he needs to be Ruthless but also the cost of pissing off other Gods. He realises he was doomed the moment he killed that sheep in Polyphemus's Cave and Eurylochus is about to damn them all again by killing The Sun Gods cattle.

Orpheus wanted to protect Eurdice but he caused her doom.

Eurylochus wanted to protect the crew but ended up causing their doom. Odysseus was never gonna save them.

So yeah those are my thoughts summarised.

Conclusion

Once I see or listen to the orginal Hadestown soundtrack I need to do a Eurylochus reincarnates into Orpheus fanfiction for the double angst. Could you imagine Odysseus seeing Eurylochus repeat the same mistakes.

Eurylochus deserves so much more love as his character is way more complex then you make him out to be.

Thanks to The Epic Writing discord cos this turned out more angsty then I intended.

Epic is awesome 👌🏼.

Again for give me, I'm just an enby who's trying to brainstorm ideas.

Don't look back friends and don't kill God's cattle.

-Melody-

They/Them

[themidnightwitch44]

I’m sure someone else has pointed this out before, however, few things in Hadestown show the tension between Hades and Persephone more than how, in “How Long” Hades says “You and your pity don’t fit in my bed”. MY bed, not our bed.

[kacievvbbbb]

Ace & Luffy and Greek Tragedy

Ace and the Marineford summit war is essentially a retelling of the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice where Ace is somehow both Orpheus and Eurydice.

Like don't get me wrong Luffy is very Orpheus coded

Like of course Luffy was going to descend into Empel down, a place where no one is ever supposed to come back from, to save his brother just as Orpheus descended into Hades to save his lover (Empel down is also literally underground as well). Of course, his love for his brother is so strong and his cause so moving he can't help but rally the world; friend and foe alike, around him. And of course before the eyes of gods and men, he gets Ace back, of course he does! his love for his brother can and has shaken the world.

But Ace has a bit of his tragedy too.

Because just like Orpheus, no matter how much you yell at him to keep going or get frustrated with the perceived stupidity of the choice, Ace was always going to look back, of course he was! How could he not? everything he loved was behind him.

And they'll tell the story a million times a million different ways but no one can deny that love was there. Love was there, and it wasn't enough to save Eurydice then and it won't be enough to save Ace now but it was there and to them that was enough, this proof that they have loved and been loved in turn is enough.

Orpheus and Luffy will carry this love turned anger turned grief everywhere they go, to the ends of the world and back again, they will never outgrow it. But one day they might find poeace in it, one day it will be enough for them too, this knowledge that they loved and they loved well.

Love can not save any of these characters from their fates but i can offer them comfort there at the end and give them courage to face it.

And isn't that proof enough?