#hadestown analysis

[alyona11]

I just had this thought but… Since Chant states that both Hades and Persephone are deaf/blind it means that if Hades’ wake up song is Epic III, then Persephone’s is If It’s True. Which I somehow never gave a deeper thought because I always think of IIT as of a big character moment for Orpheus but damn it’s really interesting to think about!

How Long is the first time we see Persephone sober and her sudden change is provoked by Orpheus in If It’s True. It’s double interesting because Hadestown Persephone’s sin is her passiveness and sort of inability to say no to Hades in many ways: in her going with him in Way Down Hadestown, in her seeing and clearly not liking the state of the realm in Chant but not willing to fight Hades on that or make the change, in her closing her eyes on her relationship and drowning herself in wine. Orpheus breaking down yet finding powers to stand out for himself and the others and even directly calling her out on her lack of action (at least I interpret the ending of the song where Orpheus looks at her with kind of judgment like that) is what is making her finally put the matters in her own hands and try to talk to Hades.

It again adds to the idea that Hades isn’t the only problem in Hadestown. There are two people in this relationship and both have to change in order for things to work out. We just mostly stoplight Hades as the main problem and a sort of villain in this story because he is so proactive but we kinda ignore that Persephone’s passiveness is complicit in the state of the world and in Hadestown. She needs to be woken up as much as Hades does. It’s Hades who has deprived the dead of their eternal peace but it was Persephone who never said a word. It was Hades who came too early to get her home before her time but it was her who took his hand and walked into the train. I do love the depth it gives to Persephone as a character, she does feel like a real person.

[roseredsnow]

BTW cause of last reblogg my analysis of West End portrayals in Hadestown that I posted on my insta story the WE cast closing night, ilk try to get it typed up at somepoint for those that can't read the images.

[itsorpheus420]

I just want to say that I don't know whether someone has noticed this before but Hermes seems to represent hope in Hadestown.

He is the one who pushes Orpheus to go to Hadestown, he is the one to herald Persephones comings and goings.

He is a narrator, but he also represents the characters hopes and when they loose them.

As seen in way down Hadestown reprise, he is featured in that song narrating the state of Hadestown because it represents Eurydice's loss of hope, and when she truly looses hope, Hermes stops singing and the Fates start their chanting once again.

Hermes Hope and the Fates doubt is a recurring theme throughout the musical, the fight between hope and doubt. In the end, Doubt wins out but Hope begins the song again, in the hopes that this time, the song will be different.

So the musical ends with this hopeful song of them starting the musical again, masking the tragedy.

We see in nothing changes that Orpheus looses his hope temporarily, sending Hermes off stage

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxxCMMpZXaoNhsfiWYRijvcGHCevzJqupG?si=_t1whH9b4jYMYyhS

Another reason why I love if it's true, Hermes represents the hope of the workers as they rise to help Orpheus

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxogZ6ocH9Xx4lqvibW3G3lDIvhlzdIBj-?si=SNQRVSAdZ5eXtEI4

This is Hermes once again going off stage

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAmjAe2Hpw9wRCDE1PFAnaXMcm__Gdub9?si=yO78jZzPQHG7Cl1l

There is a reason why Hermes wears silver like the fates, it's because he is their true antithesis. The war between hope and doubt

[madbard]

“You said that you would stay with me…”

As much as I love the 2019 original broadway cast recording of Hadestown, I will always miss the 2017 original cast recording for one major reason: the song “Promises.”

This song comes right after “Epic lll.” At this point, Orpheus has just made his greatest gambit, singing the song he’s been working on for years in the hopes of restoring balance to the world, now in a desperate plea to free Eurydice. After years of bitterness, of loneliness, rejection and pain, Hades and Persephone have finally embraced each other. They are dancing, and as they dance, Orpheus and Eurydice realize that they did it. They can go home.

In the 2019 recording, this moment is pure sweetness as Eurydice immediately reaches out to her exhausted lover, asking him to take her home. After the emotional hurricane that was the rest of the musical, there is a sense of joy and relief. The lovers are reunited. The story is almost over, and they are so glad to see each other again. It’s romantic, certainly… but something is missing.

In the 2017 recording, Eurydice still sings first. But she doesn’t ask Orpheus to take her home. Instead, she reminds him of the promises he made to her. She reminds him of his sweet words, of how those sweet words were torn apart by the winter winds, the pangs of hunger. She doesn’t absolve herself of blame, either. The music is soft and sad as she admits to breaking her vows, to flying away when times got rough. Orpheus replies in kind. We can hear the strain in his voice as he reminds Eurydice of the promises she made him, the future he had dreamed of - the future she may have destroyed. This conversation is quiet and heavy. Both blame the other; both accept blame. In the quiet, they admit to the pain and suffering they put each other through. They lay each broken promise bare. And then - they make a new promise. They choose to walk together.

Hadestown is such a multifaceted musical, intersecting with environmentalism, capitalism, greed, and so many other themes. For me though, the core of the musical will always be its story about failure and forgiveness, about the ways the people we love can hurt us. For me, Hadestown is a story about the risks we take when we forgive those people, and about that shining, quiet hope that maybe, just maybe, they won’t turn around this time. Maybe, we can find our way back home.

The 2019 version might be sweeter, more romantic. But it is the 2017 version that resonates because it shows, in the moment of calm after catastrophe, exactly how painful forgiveness can be.

[themidnightwitch44]

This is even more unhinged than my falsettos costume analysis bare with me

The placement and use of and VISIBILITY of actors mics can actually impact the story.

For this I’m using Falsettos and Hadestown to compare/contrast.

(And like… obviously budget and people and a ton of tech factors probably go into this, I’m simply looking at this from a narrative standpoint)

For a lot of big professional productions (like Broadway), the actors personal mics (I’m gonna call them body mics) are in their hair. There’s a few moments in the Falsettos pro shot (I think specifically in act 2?) where you can see them. But like… I only saw them because I was curious about WHERE their mics were placed.

On the other hand, everyone’s mics in Hadestown are SUPER obvious. Like… high school level production obvious. And sure, it could be a budget thing, but I genuinely doubt it.

I genuinely think that in Hadestown, SEEING the mics makes sense, because we KNOW it’s a story.

We are TOLD that it’s a story.

And what’s a good way to show that other than to not hid mics?

And on the other hand in falsettos, everyone’s mics are hidden because one (1), common practice, and two (2), we’re not as much watching a story play out in front of us like Hadestown, watching an intentionally replayed tale, but we’re watching lives, we’re watching people LIVE

[hadestownhistory]

8!!!! i love this project❤️

Here's something I wrote about Persephone's development across the productions! It was originally posted as a comment under one of Patrick Page's Instagram posts.

I've always thought that removing the workers in Our Lady of the Underground was an interesting developmental choice. Persephone’s speakeasy acting as a place to re-humanize the workers made her an agent against Hades’ absolute rule. By removing the workers, it also removes what remains of her actions directly against his will, making her more complacent in what’s happening in Hadestown. It’s the conclusion of the developmental path she’d been on; in early versions (2006-07 and thenabouts), Persephone seemed outwardly supportive of Hades, a sort of perfect wife, while acting behind his back in her speakeasy (to the point of sheltering Orpheus there). While I’m missing information on some key workshops, from what we do know it looks like as productions pass she becomes more vocal against him, while doing less to actually subvert his will in any meaningful way. Where once the speakeasy was the act of ultimate rebellion against him, now it is nothing but a pastime for her. She has become entirely complacent with the mistreatment of the workers.

Some understandably dislike this progression and conclusion, but I find it to be fitting. What is more accurate to our time than someone in a position of power only making superficial gestures to support those that need it, when they are in some cases the only ones with the capacity to create actual change? Persephone's resistance to meaningful action feels like a very appropriate character and narrative choice.

Hope you like the analysis! Thanks for the support!

[kamechan98]

Yes!

Hades in Hadestown isn’t necessarily a good person, but he’s given just enough nuances and depth that even if he’s the bad guy you still feel bad for him at times and want his and Persephone’s relationship to get better.

But no one can deny that he’s basically the Greek Mythology equivalent of Jeff Bezos and that’s why he’s the bad guy. He’s exploiting the desperation of poor and starving people who will do anything for a chance at security, food and shelter. He hoards the wealth that he is the god of, tells people that the only way for them to be saved from the enemy (poverty) is to work for him, except all the of wealth goes directly to his pockets, leaving them with next to nothing and tells them to build a wall around his kingdom and their prison, making sure they can’t leave and no one else can get in, protecting his wealth and making sure he can’t lose it.

Also a thing to point out that people are starving and suffering because of his and Persephone’s relationship growing more and more toxic and because he won’t let her leave to do her job and trust that she’ll come back once six months have passed, he makes her stay longer in the Underworld and shorter in the Upper world, making spring and summer shorter, and throwing the whole world into chaos as there’s less food and it’s getting colder.

I’ve been trying to put my finger on why Hades being depicted as a villain is so annoying in other media but works so well in Hadestown, and I think I’ve figured out why: Hadestown Hades isn’t the bad guy because he’s the god of the DEAD; instead, he’s the bad guy because he’s the god of WEALTH. Usually, whenever Hades appears in a movie or video game, he has some stupid motivation like “ughh I’m tired of being lord of the underworld I wanna be lord of everything” or “I’m the Greek mythology version of the western concept of Satan, fear me!!” but Hadestown really said screw that and made his motivation “I love my wife so much but we have a shitty marriage arrangement and her long absence combined with my severe self-doubt has lead me down the hellish road to corruption by all the riches under the ground.”

[fulcrums501st]

everyone’s already talking about the Orpheus and Eurydice parallels between Mark and Gemma and how the severed floor is hell so HOW IS NO ONE CONNECTING IT TO HADESTOWN?!?

where HELL is literally a PERMANENT ASSEMBLY LINE. An EVERLASTING OVERTIME. where you only remember your REPETITIVE WORK and forget your life up “above”. where hades convinces the workers that they need to keep working for a greater cause. where the underworld is an industrial factory. hades has devoted his life to industry. it is all that gives the workers meaning. where people go to hadestown out of desperation.

SEVERANCE is HADESTOWN both with the Orpheus and Eurydice similarities AND the similarities of corporate industrial exploitation i rest my case.

[mistresscitrusslice]

Jayce is mostly not like Orpheus because even though he tried to bring his bf science buddy back, Viktor still came back wrong regardless of whether or not Jayce had doubt (even when he did have doubt he didn’t falter. Jayce >>> Orpheus)

However, Jayce IS like Hadestown Orpheus in that in Season 1 he spent 100% of his lab time post-Council promotion working on a way to save Viktor’s life and cure him. He didn’t even notice that Viktor was already fading until it was too late. Orpheus toiled away on a song to fix the seasons for Eurydice and make life easier for her, but he was so consumed by this labor of love that he didn’t even notice his girlfriend already fucking died/left for Hadestown.

Viktor and Eurydice, both feeling neglected by the one that was supposed to stay by their side, are forced to take matters into their own hands and trade their autonomy for life/livelihood. Both of them also thought it would give them more autonomy but ended up with someone/something controlling them instead.

[alyona11]

Hi! So I am very new to Hadestown and I am watching the bootleg. I really love the dynamic between Hades and Persephone, but there is one thing that kind of rub me in not so good way, is Hey Little Song Bird implied that Hades and Eurydice slept together? I am seeing a lot of interpretation and it genuinely confused the hell out of me asdfghk

Hi! Well, tbf it's a tricky question, but the short answer is that Hadestown suggests that something might have happened behind closed doors. The rest is up to audience and actor's interpretation.

For example, Anaïs Mitchell often mentions in Working On a Song that in early workshops she often went with the idea that Hades cheats and pretty regularly even though these affairs mean nothing to him since the only person he loves is Persephone. It even had a cut song:

In her early drafts/productions of Hadestown you can often get the vibe that from her point of view it doesn't matter as much because they are eternal beings and love each other since the world began so does it even matter for them?

However, by NYTW this story line was cut apart from Persephone's line in How Long:

"I don't mind if you look at other girls, now and then"

"The girl means nothing to me"

"I know"

Plus the staging in NYTW Papers and Hades' protective peacock behavior with Eurydice around Orpheus in the scene also gives you a thought that they might have had an affair? Plus some bits like the fact that she has a line in Why We Build a Wall and her words "But don't you see? That's different with me!" - "Different than who? They thought they were different too!" Could also be interpreted as Hades suggesting some special conditions by granting her a role of a romantic interest. Whether the interest is real or not and did he use it or not is again up to your interpretation of NYTW Hades. He is more of a morally dubious guy (as all ht Hades are) so it's more up to you to either believe he would have cheated to put Persephone in her place or would just use showing off Eurydice as a brutal way to get Persephone's interest.

As for Broadway, I think it's still suggested and you can find profs in the lyrics but I think that they are what they are - suggestive and leave you to interprete it whichever way you feel comfortable. I think the biggest suggestion remains in Flowers with the line:

'I trembled when he laid me out

"You won’t feel a thing," he said, "when you go down"'

Which kinda can have a death meaning and sex meaning, tbf someone could have written a good article on how those topics are connected in Hadestown. So here, again chose one of the two or both.

But again, Broadway also changed the lyrics in How Long and the whole staging in Papers so it's less suggestive.

My personal opinion based on Broadway production is that it all depends on how the actor plays it and whether you believe this particular Hades is the type to sleep with Eurydice to get Persephone's attention and prove he is still attractive or he is more of a person who doesn't care about having the affair and his only goal is to get Persephone to react somehow by composing such a messed up hurtful plan. Personally, I prefer the second option maybe because I'm a pussy or maybe because I see Hades (whom I mostly base on Patrick Page ht Broadway previews) like a person who is desperate to get Persephone's attention in such a radical way like a cat pushing objects from your table to see your reaction. He wants to be stopped, he wants any reaction from Persephone. He even touches her by the shoulder before going into the office like "Look!! Look! I'm absolutely totally leaving! To cheat! See! Hey come on! I'll even take off my tie to show that I'm serious! Don't you wanna stop me???". Seems kinda way too extra to me. Like he could have just gotten to the office after parading a pretty girl in front of her and it would be understood that it's for an affair. But he takes so much time to make sure she understands that he can find himself someone when all he wants is for her to come back to him with open arms. I'm not sure he has the guts to actually damage his relationship to an irreversible degree (considering Broadway Hades is never stated as a cheater before the Eurydice sub-plot). Like it's one thing to take a mortal before her time and parade her in front of your wife (because what is a mortal life after all?) as a "replacement" and it's the other way to actually cheat on her and deal with the fact that she might never forgive him again if it is a deal-breaker for her considering they seem to be true to each other for all these years.

One interesting thing to note here as well is how Hades actors play the reaction to Persephone's line in How Long:

"He has the kind if love that you and I once had"

Because his instant reaction is "OH SHIT once had?? Does she think I don't love her still?? OH SHIT I BROUGHT THE GIRL THIS IS WHY SHE MIGHT THINK THAT", so he answers to that:

"The girl means nothing to me!"

Depending on the actor and she show the line sounds either scared, confused, angry, undignified etc. So it's once again up to you to interprete why he reacts this way: is he angry because she suggested he would actually cheated on her? Is he angry because she called him out on that affair? Is he confused and scared because she thinks he doesn't love her anymore because of his foolish decision to tease her in such a cruel way?

That's up to you.

P.S. I think one of the most interesting studies of the subject and Hades' character that I've read in a fic for that matter was the Songbird chapter of Winters Nigh and Summers O're. You can check it out, but I will warn you that it's probably one of the heaviest chapters of that fic in the emotional sense and it has explicit parts (don't worry, nothing bad happens to Eurydice. Well...apart from dying, I guess), so check out the warnings if you decide to read it.

[she-posts-nerdy-stuff]

Okay I’m thinking about this again so I want to address this line: I played a song so beautiful, the stones wept and they let me in.

Listening to the album, I always interpreted this in the same way that I had the lines I was talking about above; talking about the workers who have metaphorically become the wall, not the literal bricks. I have since been wonderfully lucky enough to see the show live just a few weeks ago, and therefore have learned about the incredible staging that arguably lends this to a more literal interpretation. Personally I think I still consider Orpheus to be talking about the workers here and choose to believe that the workers response to the song was to move the bricks and allow him in, but I just wanted to bring up because oh my goodness it’s beautiful either way. The simultaneous personification of the bricks and dehumanisation of the workers is a poetic motif carried throughout the musical and I am obsessed with it

“But everyone knows that walls have ears/And the workers heard him”

This line, this FREAKING LINE, hits me so hard every time. Walls have ears and the workers heard him. Because the workers have literally become a part of Hadestown, and nothing else. Your place on the assembly line/replaces all your memories. The wall and the workers that build it have become one and the same. They are Hadestown and Hadestown is them. Show them a crack and they’ll tear down the wall/lend them an ear and the kingdom will fall.

What if I screamed? What then?

[gemini-queen42]

Maybe I'm too into romanticizing things but yknow what I've said it before I'll fuckin say it again

Alt ver thats was actually made first & makes its point more explicitly but may sacrifice flow in that process:

[jackwhiteprophetic]

TODAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT ORPHEUS AND EURYDICE AGAIN and thinking about how this scene looks like one of them just turned around and the stillness and the breathing and the eye contact and "I thought we would have more time" plastered on both of their faces HOW DID WE EVER MOVE PAST THIS

[winteraurora]

Hadestown and Newsies are very interesting revolutionary musicals. Unlike Hamilton or Le mis they are not explicit in their anti-capitalist and anti-government statements. They are subtle. 'Build the wall' and 'bottom line' hold the same meaning in their stories of the capitalist ruler discussing why they do what they do.

Though in 'the bottom line' Pulitzer is more blatant with his cutting of the newsies fees and how this is all for profit, 'build the wall' is more subtle with the explanation of why hades does what he does, as a way to control his citizens, he obviously is useing this explanation as a way to control them. 'We build the wall to keep us free, and the wall keeps out the enemy and the enemy is poverty and our work is never done.'

Both stories also use this familiar tone with the characters. Hades calls his workers 'my children' and Pulitzer says 'I couldn't have given them a better education if they were my own children'

Both stores have good revolution songs with hades town it's 'if its true" "nothing changes" "how long?" And of course "chant (reprise)"

While newsies has "the world will know" and "once and for all"

The fundamental difference between these two musicals is that Orpheus fought back for love, he did all of this for Eurydice for his wife, he went literally to hell and back, he fought through song and through appealing to Hades love for Prosephone.

While Jack fought for freedom through aggression...yes but ultimately he fought to go to Santa Fe which to his is freedom.

And the biggest difference between these two musicals two is the ending. Hadestown is a retelling of the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice he will look back we know this. This freedom of leaving hades town comes with a sting attached, with a stipulation of 'is he tricking me? Would he really let me leave?' While Newsies ends with Jack finding his freedom in New York and child labor laws being implemented. (Like in real history)

Sorry I'm not the best at media analysis especially with musicals since to me a lot of it feels like text and not subtext,

[hadestownhistory]

Kudos to the orange/blue notice! That took me ages to see, and someone pointed out. It’s also seen throughout the show, with orange typically representing realism/the way the world is and blue representing hope/the way the world could be

i'm generally Not Smart when it comes to looking deeper into what stuff represents/means in any media but i saw hadestown last night and i just loved what the lighting did so fucking much

my observations!!! are just surface level!!!! but i loved how in hadestown (the place in the musical) the colors in the background seemed to shift with how hades was feeling!!!! it's constantly orange until he dances with persephone and it changes to a softer blue!!!! the fog behind orpheus showed how he was scared eurydice wasn't following him but she was still always there!!!! my observations are nothing special but i'm happy i saw them nonetheless!!!

[angelic-enj0lras]

Some sort of small think piece about Enjoltaire idk

A very strong belief i have about writing Enjoltaire is that if they actually end up together, Grantaire HAS to change the way he sees the world. He can not have the same cynical mindset from the start while simultaneously being in a healthy relationship with Enjolras. Not only would it be way too ooc for Enjolras to not only fall in love, but get with Grantaire if he stayed the same, but it also basically ignores what actually happened during Enjolras and Grantaire death scene.

The first point is pretty apparent to me. Enjolras feels distant for Grantaire because Grantaire is a skeptic who doesn't believe in anything at all, he dosnt see the point in fighting for anything. Enjolras himself believes in fighting. So if Enjolras' main issue with Grantaire is that He doesn't believe in anything, and simply smiles and laughs at the problems that Enjolras is so selflessly devoted to fighting for, would it not be odd and extremely out of character for Enjolras to just basically brush all that aside and get with him regardless?

I would argue that, in a way, by writing Grantaire character the same from beginning to end, you take no notice of Grantaire character arc. Because in the very end, Grantaire actually does change his views! Or at least, that is what i put together when I went over the chapter where he dies. Particularly the part when Grantaire wakes up from his drunken slumber.

I view Victor Hugo saying that Grantaire "woke up" not only as him just saying Grantaire literally woke up from sleeping, but as he woke up from the cynical mindset he always had. He's been stuck in this drunken state that doesn't allow him to see the point in anything, and abruptly when the rebellion comes to a close, he sobers up, and he sees the point in it all.

"and the drunkard who has known nothing of what has been taking place during the last twenty-four hours, has no sooner opened his eyes than he is perfectly informed. Ideas recur to him with abrupt lucidity; the obliteration of intoxication, a sort of steam that has obscured the brain, is dissipated, and makes way for the clear and sharply outlined importunity of realities."

"Grantaire rose to his feet with a start, stretched out his arms, rubbed his eyes,stared, yawned, and understood."

Now that Grantaire sees the end of the rebellion, his friends who died for what they believe in, his eyes are open. He understands now why Enjolras and Les Amis de l'abc fought for a cause he thought was pointless. The failure of the rebellion, The sight of Enjolras about to be executed, It essentially radicalized him. And so when he gose "long live the republic, im with them!" He's not just saying that so he can be able to die beside Enjolras. It's him finally understanding what Enjolras fought for. In the very last moments of his life, he finally starts to comprehend and believe in the sincere beliefs Enjolras has always held. That is why Enjolras accepts Grantaire to die with him. Because Grantaire "drunkenness has ended" at last, and now he understands Enjolras and his resone to care about any of this.

I think the fact that Grantaire does end up believing in the very end of his life adds to how tragic Enjoltaire is. Grantaire is stuck believing in nothing. He sees no point in anything, and this causes him to latch onto Enjolras, who have beliefs. And then it's the opposite for Enjolras, who has beliefs, and therefore can not reciprocate the feelings for Grantaire. It's only until the very end of Grantaire life that he finally fully understands Enjolras' passion to fight. It's all so beautifully tragic to me.

I am not really sure how I want to end this, I thought about making this post for some time, I just had not been able to put it into words. but recently, I was writing something for my Enjoltaire hadestown au (yes, this whole thing was caused by a silly au) , and finally figured out how to word it. I would love to hear what others have to say. Feel free to add on or mention anything! I probably missed some things and got some information wrong.