#guys Antinous never said that!!!

[katerinaaqu]

Indeed and I fear that is unfortunately a real part of the problem when social media take over and they spread that which is another reason why I have had enough with all the versions of "retelling" that twist the myths beyond recognition in the name of "creativity" because honestly being creative is one thing but twisting it beyond recognition is another and unfortunately masses do not see the difference and many things like that spread like a wild fire. I agree they either never read the Odyssey or they are so drawn in their fantasy that they read the most inaccurate "translations" ever and they just call it a day!

Oh I definitely recommend it! It is much better than anything ever made (and I loved the 1968 version which was arguably 90% accurate to the book). Personally it is my favorite book of all time! Also glad to provide with info whenever you want 👌🏻🫶🏻

Back to the point yeah I agree. One doesn't need to know the Odyssey by heart to know that! And I absolutely agree! Is no hard at all. The entire freaking book is free online just do a basic check!

Oh gosh I don't even wanna remember! And I think this damage started even from Percy Jackson and all! And then Miller came with her own twisted ideas and now the musical... like I had a guy who was arguing with me and was soooo convinced that Achilles has sex with Patroclus and when I said nothing like that shows in Homer but I explained the tenderness of words and such between them the dude told me "Have you read TSOA?" As if he was in a "gotcha!" Moment and I was like "no bitch I read the fucking Iliad in the original language!" 😒

Of course one can enjoy retellings (or not. Or not all of them but some etc) but man it pisses me off when people think they did something when they never double check anything!

i'm in despair (this is about antinous)

WHAT?! Okay seriously I have had enough at this point with this bullshit and the misinformation out there just because some people twist away the Odyssey and become famous to the point of people not being able to tell reality from fanfiction and of people who just won't do research or read the most crappy "translations" in the world! So because I have had enough here's ALL the lines Antinous speaks in the Odyssey to clear this up once and for all!

(Be warned this will be long but please share this as much as you can guys! Forgive me in advance if some of my translations are a bit sloppy or not as accurate I am willing to redo some passages if you guys want in comments or reblogs in the future.)

Please spread this because honestly I have had enough and this EXACTLY why I cannot take anymore of these "retellings" and whatever the hell the names are and the changes they make for no reason to characters for "creative liberties" because honestly people cannot even read the sources properly and they just make claims taking advantage of popularity of media!

ANTINOUS'S LINES IN THE ODYSSEY:

And then Antinous the son of Eupeithes answered him:

"Telemachus, no doubt the gods themselves are teaching you well since you became such a boaster and speak with so much insolence! May Cronus make sure that you shall never reign Ithaca of the two seas, which is your ancestral right!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 1 (383-387): Antinous to Telemachus in irony when Telemachus has seen Athena in disguise off.

~

Telemachus, you high-and-mighty, uncontrollable in your insolence, what kind have you said is my shame: you wish to shift the blame! But I tell ya it is not the fault of the Achaean suitors but of your beloved mother's, who knows very well how to gain from others. For this is the third year, nearly entering the fourth, that she plays with the feelings within the chests of the Achaeans. For she has given promises to each and every one of us all and sends us messages but in her head and she has made a big ploy; and after she set a large loom in the palace and began to weave in a thin and complicated way and then she said to us:

"Young men, my suitors, since divine Odysseus is dead, please be patient since you are in a hurry for my marriage, but allow me fulfill this one pledge, for I do not want this weaving of mine be for nothing, let me make a shroud for the heroic Laertes for when his fate strikes and is taken by the death who brings so many woes, so that I will not gain resent from the Achaean women, oh, if the man who gained so much were to lie without a shroud"

So she spoke to us and our heroic hearts were persuaded and so in there by day she was looming at her great web and by night she was destroying it under the light of the torches she had beside her. And so she gained herself 3 years with her deceit that persuaded the Achaeans, now entering the forth and time has passed and we were informed on this by one of the women who clearly saw what had happened and so we caught her red-handed unraveling the great web. And so she was forced out of necessity to finish it. And so to you the suitors are replying to you so you shall know it deep in your heart and for all the other Achaeans to know; send back your mother to her father and command her to choose which one of us she pleases to marry. For, truly, Athena has blessed her with knowledge and craftsmanship and understanding heart; such wiles Penelope knows above other beautifully-haired Achaean women, even than the ones known by the old ones; and Tyro and Alcmene and beautifully-wreathed Mycene but her last wile was not right and so we shall continue to eat here from your inheritance, for despite the fact that the gods placed such mind more than many inside her and she brings great name upon herself, but you shall regret your insolence. We shall not move back to our homes or to any other place until she marries which of us Achaeans she desires!

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 2 (86-128): Antinous to Telemachus about Penelope's scheme when Telemachus accused the suitors for their staying at his palace. Penelope is being accused for her game upon them and simoultaneously praised for her mind and craftsmanship but also Telemachus being pressured to send her back to her father to start preparing for her upcoming marriage.

~

And Antinous immediately laughed and rushed to Telemachus and grabbing one of his arms he mocked him:

"Telemachus, you high-and-mighty, uncontrollable in your insolence do not have other evil word or action you in your mind for us, but I say come and eat and drink with me like before, I am sure all these you want the Achaeans shall provide and ships and outstanding oarsmen so that quickly you shall reach holy Pylos and hear news of your noble father!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 2 (301-308): Antinous to Telemachus mockingly after the end of the gathering. Basically Antinous mocks Telemachus and tells him to forget the meeting ever happened and then mocks him with the notion he had to reach Pylos for news of his father.

~

And then Antinous, the son of Eupeithes replied:

"Tell me the truth! Where did he go and who were the men that followed him? Were they chosen Ithacan youth or heirlooms and slaves that belonged to him? Definitely I think he is capable even for that! And tell me this as well and answer truthfully for I shall know, whether by force and without your will he acquired the black ship or whether you gave it to him willingly, agreeing with his words!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 4 (641-647): Antinous to Noemon son of Phronius. The man possessed the ship which Telemachus got and now Antinous is interrogating the man on whether he did so with his free will or by force. The man of course replies that he had no reason to refuse Telemachus thus gaining the reaction by Antinous:

Furiously, then replied to him Antinous the son of Eupeithes; with great anger filling his black heart, both his eyes shining like fires:

"Damn! What a bold insolence Telemachus has put in action, this journey, even if we were saying he would never see it through! The way he has managed to launch a ship and even pick the best youth of the people and take them with him! He shall be our doom soon the way it goes! But hopefully Zeus's strength shall destroy him before he reaches the maturity of youth but go on now and give me a fast ship and twenty men so I shall wait for him and set an ambush to the narrow path between Ithaca and rugged Same and so his voyage to find his father shall have a sad end!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 4 (660-672): Antinous to himself and the other suitors. Basically here he speaks on the ambush he wants to set on Telemachus in his anger that Telemachus left for the trip after all plus how he fears that Telemachus will be their doom somehow.

~

Gentlemen, all of us, let us stop spewing arrogant words for someone might as well report your words in this house. But let us speak in low voice and make our words action, for this has pleased all our hearts.

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 4 (774-777): Antinous to the other suitors. In plotting in silence how they would proceed with the murder of Telemachus while Penelope is up in her rooms praying to Athena for the saving of her son.

~

Damn! Look how the gods have saved this man from misfortune! Even if we had guards waiting at the windy tops day after day, one after the other. And when the sun fell down we didn't stay on shore but we sailed on the fast ships in the sea till the divine Eos (Dawn) waiting and lurking for Telemachus to take hold of him and destroy him: some god undoubtedly has brought him home! But let us here plan the sorrowful doom of Telemachus so that he won't escape us; for I know that as long as he lives our plans will not be fulfilled. He has persuaded the council and the people do not agree with us anymore. But let's go before he gathers the assembly of the Achaeans because I think he won't be wise to act slow but he would rush in full wrath and he would choose to rise everyone up by saying that we contrived against him murder but didn't catch him and they will not like it when they hear our evil deeds. Mark my words, he will drive us all out of our lands and we shall move to stranger lands! Come on! Let us seize him at the countryside, outside of the city or on the way and let us seize all his possessions and lands and divide them among ourselves equally but the house we shall give to his mother and to whomever marries her. But if you are displeased by these words and you believe he should live and keep his inheritance then let us stop devouring his goods and leave the house and each one of us from his own palace shall continue showering her with gifts till she will have as husband the one who offers the most.

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 16 (364-392): Antinous to himself and the other suitors. His fury that Telemachus escaped their ambush and he repeats the plan on killing him or establishes even more options for the suitors. In here he also suggests to keep pressuring Penelope to marry.

~

And so spoke Antinous scolding the swineherd

"Notorious swineherd what did you bring him to the city for? Don't we have enough vagabonds and other annoying beggars to ruin our dinner? Aren't they enough people to eat the king's wealth here that you invited this one too?"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 17 (374-379): Antinous to Eumeus on Odysseus. Eumeus had brought Odysseus-Beggar to the palace and Melanthius, the goat-herder had pointed out that he saw Eumeus leading him there so Antinous once more barges in and complaints (that is the first time Antinous speaks in the presence of Odysseus)

~

Telemachus you high-and-mighty and uncontrollable in your insolence what did you say! If all the other suitors were to give him as much then he wouldn't need to come back for the next three months!

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 17 (406-408): Antinous to Telemachus. Telemachus mocks Antinous on his mocking on Odysseus/Beggar and so had Eumeus before him so now Antinous just mocks them back

~

Which god has brought this creature to destroy our feast? He stood there in apart from our tables and claims he comes from bitter Egypt or Cyprus: He insolently and so rudely asks for food from all who are here: and they give it so recklessly for no one is more generous in giving than the one who gives something that belongs to someone else for they have much each!

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 17 (446-452): Antinous to himself and Odysseus. Odysseus goes to Antinous in particular to beg for food and tells him once more his "sad story" on how he fell from grace. Antinous does not like the whining and he retaliates. Ironically he also says something correct here; that they are all generous to the food they give to Odysseus because that food is not theirs in the first place.

~

So he spoke and Antinous got even more furious and looking down upon him he replied with winged words:

"Now you shall no longer stay in this palace, back off since you speak words of accusation!"

(Tranlation by me)

Rhapsody 17 (458-461): Antinous to Odysseus. Odysseus insists upon Antinous give him some food and Antinous retaliates sending him away and in the next scene he throws the stool at him

~

And to him replied Antinous the son of Eupithes:

"Sit there and eat, stranger or go elsewhere or else you shall be thrown out being carried away by your arms and legs and be skinned whole!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 17 (477-480): Antinous to Odysseus. Basically Odysseus complained to the entire assembly that Antinous has just striken him because he is hungry. Antinous doesn't like it and threatens that Odysseus will be carried out by force and be skinned alive if he goes on. He is heard by Penelope upstairs and she is filled in the details by Euryclaea.

~

"Friends how fortunate that such a thing happened, that the gods brought such entertainment to our doors! Irus and the stranger fighting and wishing to hit each other! Quickly! Let's set them up!"

Mighty Antinous heard them two talking and breaking in merry laughter he addressed the suitors:

So he spoke and everyone broke down laughing and gathered together the two beggars and again Antinous son of Eupithes addressed them:

"Listen, heroic suitors, what I am about to say. These goat stomachs here that is roasting on the fire and we had set them here to make dinner after we have filled them with fat and blood but now I say the one who wins and comes out on top let him choose which one he wants to have for himself and what's more he shall dine with us and we shall suffer no more a beggar begging among us!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 18 (34-49): Antinous to the rest of the suitors. Irus has arrived to the palace and he picks up a fight with Odysseus/Beggar and Antinous loving the idea of watching them two fight and suggests the contest.

~

Now, don't whine, you bully and it might have been better if you never born if you are to be afraid and trembling of this fellow, a man old and beaten down by misery. I tell ya and it's done: he has won against you and is stronger, I shall throw you in a black ship and exile you to the mainland to the king Echetus, the baneful of men, and he shall have your nose and ears cut off with ruthless bronze and shall throw your privates to the dogs to devour!

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 18 (79-87): Antinous to Irus. Basically he threatens and mocks Irus for being afraid of losing to "an old man". Irus was taken over by fear when Odysseus revealed his shoulders and legs realizing that he is not just a common old man. Antinous is "guilt tripping" and threatening Irus so that the two of them would fight.

~

And Antinous son of Eupeithes replied to her:

"Daughter of Icarius, wise Penelope, the gifts you want the Achaeans shall bring you here, for you to accept them, for it is no good not to accept them, but we shall not leave this place and go elsewhere till you choose to marry the best of us Achaeans!"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 18 (284-289): Antinous to Penelope. Penelope demands wedding gifts (as a manipulation for the suitors to bring items to pay back what they have eaten and possibly more than that). She probably hoped to manipulate the suitors out of her house. Antinous responds to her by accepting her request but also expresses the decision all the suitors made, not to leave the house till she has chosen a husband (in the next lyrics it is revealed that Antinous's gift was a beautiful embroidered robe with 12 golden brooches)

~

I verily think is hard, Achaeans, to accept the word of Telemachus who has so much spoken threateningly against us. Truly the son of Cronus Zeus wouldn't have tolerated this but he would already have silenced him in this palace, the way he clearly speaks!

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 20 (271-274): Antinous to the rest of the suitors. Telemachus placed his father (dressed as beggar) sit among the suitors and has showingly given him good portion of food and golden cup and he told him boldly to sit and eat and drink with the rest of the people for it is not a public house here but the house of Odysseus that treats his guests! (I also find it a nice cheeky move by Telemachus here!) Antinous didn't like it and he speaks up

~

You foolish boors who only care for today! Cowards why are you crying now and you are troubling the heart of this woman? Now that she has learnt she has lost her dear husband! Be silent and sit down or if you have to weep go elsewhere and leave this bow behind so it will be a the contest of decision for the suitors. For I believe it will be no easy task to chord this bow. For there is no such a man among us like the one Odysseus was! And I myself have seen him and I remember him even if I was but an infant child then!

Rhapsody 21 (86-96): Antinous to Eumeus. Eumeus was ordered to bring up the bow from the armory. Eumeus held the bow in his hands and he actually cried in emotion as he held his master's favorite bow. Antinous retaliates and calls him names because as he says "he is troubling Penelope" with his cries and he speaks on how he remembers Odysseus when he was a child. And ironically or not so much he speaks very positively on Odysseus and the kind of man he remembers him to be, maybe because he thinks he is safe now and believes Odysseus to be dead.

~

And Antinous, the son of Eupeithes, said to them:

"Rise in your turn from the right, all my friends, we start with the order the wine is being poured"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 21 (140-142): Antinous to the rest of the suitors. He basically suggest the order with which everyone will try and string the bow (with the order that the jug holder has poured them wine) from right to left)

~

But Antinous reproved his words and he called out:

"Leodes! What words have escaped the barrier of your teeth?! This is both painful and dreadful words indeed that I feel resentment by just hearing you! If this is the bow that shall judge who is the best in heart and soul no wonder you cannot string it. Your noble mother hasn't birthed you to be a strong archer or shoot arrows. Let the other noble suitors string it!"

So he spoke and then he ordered Melanthius, the goat herder:

"Melanthius, go and light a fire in the hall and place a great chair by it covered in fleece and bring a large block of fat when you come back so that we shall smear the bow with it and soften it over the flames before we execute our contest"

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 21 (167-180): Antinous to Leodes and immediately after Antinous to Melanthius. Leodes expressed the impossible of stringing the bow and then he claimed that he'd rather die than suffer the loss there for Penelope's hand and Antinous does not like the defeatist attitude. He takes over and orders to Melanthius to bring the tools to care for the bow and make sure it is usable after so long staying in storage. This passage also shows the knowledge Antinous has on weaponry in general and possibly hunting in particular.

~

Eurymachus, this won't work; you know it yourself, because now it is a public celebration for a god. Who then would string the bow?I say set it aside for now. Newvertheless we shall leave the axes here where they are, for I believe no one shall enter to the palace of Odysseus the son of Laertes, to take them! But let's go, let the cup bearer pour the liberations in our goblets as we make our offerings and let's set aside the curved bows! By the morning we shall order Melanthus the goat herder shall bring the best out of the goats he is tending and herding and so we shall sacrifice their thighs to Apollo of the beautiful bow and we shall try one more time to execute the challenge of this bow.

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 21 (257-268): Antinous to Eurymachus when none of them could string the bow he suggests that it is because it is a public celebration that they should make their own offerings to the gods and call it a day and try another day because he assumed it is possible that the reason they couldn't string it could possibly be that it was because of the celebration. So he suggests to call it a day and offer a sacrifice to Apollo the next day before they try again.

~

Ah bloody stranger! You have absolutely no trace of wit! You are not satisfied enough that you arrogantly sit and dine with us and you are in no want of food but you also pry in our conversations and overhear our words! No other beggar or stranger ever overheard our words! Undoubtedly the sweet wine has gotten to your head and you know the wine is bad for others too, if greedily take gulps and drink without measure. The wine made even the centaurs and the noble Eurytion act foolishly when they were to the palace of great-hearted Pirithus, when he went to the Lapithes: and because his mind was consumed by wine, his frenzy caused great evil upon the house of Pirithus. And so great sorrow fell upon the heroes for he was dragged out of the doors and thrown out and his ears and nose were cut wit merciless bronze and so he bore the punishment for the madness of his mind. And so it commenced the fight between the Centaurs and the humans. They were the first to see the evil of heavy drinking. And you who speak big words I warn you if you manage to bend the bow you shall not be met with kindness and we shall throw you to a black ship and exile you to the mainland to the king Echeton, the baneful of men, there nothing will save you! Sit still and drink and don't aim to compete against much younger men than you!

(Translation by me)

Rhapsody 21 (288-310): Antinous to Odysseus. Odysseus/Beggar has just slowly approached Eurymachus and Antinous and he has asked for the right to try the bow himself. Antinous got furious that Odysseus overheard them and that he suggested to take part to the challenge and then he assumes that Odysseus is drunk and he even brings up the myth of the centaurs and the Lapithes to say how wine makes people say and do stupid things. Ironically he is most likely self-projecting since he does seem to be the intoxicated one (at least how I read his passages). And those were the last words spoken by Antinous and the last ones addressed to Odysseus.

In the next passages is the death of Antinous (he doesn't get the chance to even react given how Odysseus kills him when he is about to take a drink with an arrow through his throat) and his name is mentioned a few times by Eurymachus and some more mentions by name.

**

As you see there is absolutely no mention whatsoever not even to the murder of Telemachus to none of the scenes where Odysseus is present (mind you neither to the scenes where Penelope is either! Penelope was informed on their scheme by a servant that overheard them and she went down to confront Antinous!)

Also Antinous makes no mention whasoever in any rape! He mentions the myth of the centaurs and Lapithes and NOT EVEN THEN does he mention the attempt of rape of the women by the drunk centaurs yet alone to Penelope! The only things he speaks about is how to keep pressuring Penelope choose a husband and he mentions wedding gifts.

If anything it is ODYSSEUS the one that gets threatened all the time by Antinous and mistreated by him. Antinous even speaks positively about Penelope like 99% of the time with the exception when he calls her devious for her trick that had them all waiting.

Absolutely they want to increase pressure to Penelope and they want to kill her son but that rape thing should be enough at this point! Honestly THIS is where a certain someone SHOULD come out and say that these came out of his head and NOT the Odyssey! Like sure it is your imagination and do whatever with it but damn!

Sorry I am really upset with these smartasses on the internet at this point! Once again forgive me if any of my interpretations is sloppy or even if I have forgotten something. I have double checked but just in case.

[oddyseye]

What is Xenia?

Xenia is not just good manners. Xenia a test of character, and it's also a reflection of how the Greeks understood the relationship between humans and gods. Xenia was about more than offering food and shelter to travelers. It was a demonstration of how the gods governed human interactions and a reminder of the importance of hospitality as a virtue. The host was expected to offer protection, provisions, and shelter, often without asking the guest for any information or demanding any immediate return. The guest, in turn, was expected to be respectful, not to take advantage of the host's kindness, and to eventually offer something in return, though this could be more symbolic or reciprocal rather than transactional.

One of the key aspects of xenia was the idea that hosts could never know whether their guest might be a god in disguise. The gods were thought to frequently take on human forms to test mortals' hospitality. This divine oversight made it all the more important to treat every guest with respect, as any breach could bring dire consequences. This belief extended to travelers, strangers, and even those whose identities were unknown — showing hospitality was considered a moral obligation, an offering to the gods as much as to the human guest. While gifts were often involved, the true essence of xenia lay in the trust between the parties: the guest trusted the host to provide, and the host trusted the guest not to abuse their hospitality.

Violating xenia was one of the gravest offenses a person could commit. The punishment for such violations wasn’t just a matter of breaking a social norm; it was seen as a violation of divine order.

Xenia, in Homer's world, is a divine law.

The gods themselves are said to be the ultimate enforcers of xenia, so you'd better believe that disrespecting hospitality could get you in serious trouble. It's not just offering your guest a meal; it's offering protection, shelter, and a safe passage. If you don't uphold that, you're basically tempting the gods to mess with you, and they love doing that, trust me.

Remember when Telemachus first lands in Pylos? Nestor and his family treat him with the utmost respect, offering food, shelter, and stories (and Telemachus finds himself a boyfriend even LMFAOO). This hospitality isn't just a nice gesture; it's a social obligation that reinforces both the personal and communal ties within Greek society. Everyone's in this together, and they all have a part to play. Telemachus' growing appreciation for this custom reflects his coming-of-age journey, as he sees first-hand what it means to be both the host and the guest in the grand game of survival and honor.

For those who are yet to read the Odyssey, the scene basically goes like this:

“You’re the son of my old war buddy, Odysseus? Welcome! Come in, sit down, have food, have shelter, don’t ask questions- Here, my son is your age, share a bed with him :3 !!”

It's the perfect example of how xenia isn't just about being polite; it's about honor (excluding that last part lol). It's about building trust with someone you don't know based on a shared understanding that we're all part of this cosmic social contract. And Telemachus? He's learning that he's part of a much bigger world than just his little island. But he knew how to respect xenia even before he left Ithaca. We see this when he invites Mentor (Athena in disguise) into his home and offers him the munchies before even asking for the stranger's name. He's practically the golden boy of xenia.

And now let's talk about my favorite group of people — the suitors.

Honestly, they're just...the worst at xenia. Like, they didn't even try. Antinous? This guy is the poster child for everything you should NOT do in literally ALL of Ancient Greece. He straight-up mocks Odysseus, who's dressed as a beggar, by insulting him and telling him to leave, throwing a chair at him, and...shocker, he's the first to die. Who's surprised?

Xenia is a two-way street. It's not just what you get — it's what you give. You can't take all the food, drink all the wine, and then act like the host is just there for your enjoyment. You've got to offer something back. That's the whole point of xenia. And sure, you might not have gold and riches to give, but you can show gratitude. You can at least not insult the person whose house you're eating in.

Now, there's one suitor who stands out in the worst possible way, and I'm talking about Eurymachus. You know, this guy isn't just disrespectful, he's an outright traitor to Odysseus. Eurymachus was not just another arrogant man in Odysseus' hall; he was someone who, as a child, had been a guest in Odysseus' home. He was one of those who had been taken care of by Odysseus, fed and treated well. This relationship makes his betrayal all the more significant because it wasn't merely about a stranger dishonoring a host. It was about someone who should have known better, someone who had once been treated as part of the family, turning on Odysseus when the opportunity arose. Eurymachus' betrayal was far worse because it was not simply a violation of xenia; it was a betrayal of trust. He had been in Odysseus' house as a boy, and now he was trying to usurp everything Odysseus had built.

Then, of course, there's Amphinomus. The one suitor who has a tiny bit of decency. He's like, "Hey, maybe we shouldn't kill the beggar and the prince, maybe we should be decent human beings...Please??" And yet he's still part of the whole disgusting group. He doesn't even try to follow xenia; he just doesn't get as bad as the rest of them. So congrats, you're the “least bad” one. But that's like being the least offensive stain on a white shirt. You're still part of the mess. I still think he should have been spared and I would have kissed his cheek for it, but whatever.

The suitors were trash hosts because they didn't respect the rules of hospitality. They took, they didn't give back, and they thought they could get away with it because they were powerful. Well, guess what? No one's untouchable. Not even rich, entitled jerks like Antinous. There's a reason those guys met their end the way they did, and it's because they broke the most sacred rule in Greek society.

Because xenia is not just guarded by the gods, but by Zeus himself.

Zeus' disinterest in Odysseus' personal life is clear, but when it comes to the suitors? That's a whole different story. While he might not always be in Odysseus' corner, Zeus has no tolerance for anyone who dares to violate the divine laws of xenia — particularly when it involves the destruction of a sacred home. I will remind you, Odysseus was a KING. The suitors are not just disrespectful; they're an insult to the gods. And when Telemachus prays for their downfall, and Zeus takes notice, and he responds. His action is swift and dramatic, a sign to all that the gods are paying attention. The deadliest omen Zeus could send is unleashed — two eagles, fierce and fighting, tear at each other over the heads of the people. It's a promise that the suitors' time is running out. What's key here, though, is that Telemachus' prayers don't fall on deaf ears. Zeus doesn't just show his wrath through omens; he actively watches over Telemachus on his journey. When Telemachus sets sail, the sea itself is dangerous and unpredictable, but Zeus protects him, ensuring that he does not meet the same fate as many other men who venture into the vast unknown. In a way, Telemachus becomes the embodiment of the gods' will. He is protected, guided, and tested.

Zeus may be unpredictable, but when it comes to the suitors, he is clear. They've broken the divine laws of hospitality, and their fate is sealed. It's not just Odysseus who will return to Ithaca — it's Telemachus, now under the gods' protection, who will be key in restoring order. The suitors, as arrogant as they are, might have thought they could escape the laws of the gods. But when Zeus speaks, no mortal can escape divine justice. I would like to add that Penelope was not exactly the host. Penelope, despite being a queen, isn't really seen as the one holding the hospitality duties. It's Telemachus who's stepping up to do the job. He takes on the responsibility that comes with being the son of Odysseus. He is the man of the house, making him the proper host (no matter how unwanted these guests were). This is why Penelope is allowed to, you know, stay locked inside her room all day. Telemachus is not. As the host, he has to keep the suitors in check. Penelope's ability to host is muted because of the chaos the suitors bring, and because it's not her job in the grand scheme of things. She's playing a supporting role now, keeping the suitors entertained with her wit and tricks, maintaining the appearance of a woman in control, while Telemachus is out here actually doing the hosting duties. Had Penelope been the one to oversee the hospitality, Eurymachus could have been spared. Why? Because the suitors who gave Penelope gifts (and I'm talking about real, physical, valuable offerings) would have been seen as showing respect to Odysseus through her, and the gods would have intervened. If Penelope had shown Eurymachus even the slightest favor, Odysseus would've been in the position to forgive him. The gods might've even compelled him to spare Eurymachus for the sake of their bond. But nope. That's not what's going down here. The suitors aren't just disrespecting Penelope; they're disrespecting Telemachus, who is the true host of the household. So their fate is sealed the moment they disrespect him.

Amphinomus, for all his faults, wasn't totally awful. He had the sense to not join in on the worst of the disrespect. He even suggested that maybe they should go easy on Telemachus and the beggar. If Amphinomus had left, like, actually left, as per Odysseus' advice, he could have been spared. Why? Because his mistake was one of passive disrespect. He wasn't actively mocking Telemachus, but he wasn't doing enough to step up and stop the madness either. In the end, when he refused to leave, he sealed his fate. Because as long as he stayed in that house, violating xenia by staying after the laws were already broken, he was part of the problem. So yeah, the suitors had it coming. And if any of them had actually understood the sacredness of their role as guests, they might have seen the signs, repented, and avoided the mess they got themselves into. But as it is, none of them learned the lesson, and in the end, their disrespect for Telemachus (and Odysseus once he returned) led to their doom. At the heart of xenia was the idea of balance: a guest should not overstay their welcome, and a host should not neglect their duty to care for their guest. Both sides of the exchange were expected to uphold their part of the contract to ensure the social harmony that the concept of xenia represented. Whether it was a nobleman offering shelter to a wandering traveler or a stranger arriving at a city and receiving shelter from a local family, xenia was meant to bind individuals to a larger, sacred social order that ensured mutual respect and protection. Those who followed the rules of xenia were seen as civilized, as they respected the basic social contracts that allowed society to function. On the other hand, those who violated xenia were labeled barbaric, their behavior seen as a sign of moral decay. Xenia isn't just about food and shelter; it's about trust, honor, and not getting struck down by the gods. Offer respect or expect divine consequences. Hospitality isn't just a rule, it's a cosmic law. And the gods love enforcing it.

[into-the-very-fires-of-mordor]

I was bored today, so enjoy my Bachelor AU starring the prince of Ithaca himself: Telemachus!!

Bachelor AU - Telemachus Style!

CONTESTANTS:

CIRCE: Immortal goddess, former stalker of his father, unsure why she was let into the competition, uneasy alliance between Ody and Circe, everyone’s a bit concerned as to how legally Circe was allowed to be here, but the producers said it would make good TV

CASSIPHONE: Circe’s adopted daughter who she found on the streets, unsure why she and her mom were allowed in, sweet girl and also feral, surprisingly indifferent about ending up with Telemachus, just here to be weird and have a good time 

NAUSICÅÅ Had a crush on his dad, signed up due to family resemblance, had a HUGE puppy crush on Telemachus that is basically based on how much he’s like his father, when she’s gently let down and friend zoned she actually gives herself and him the space to actually get to know each other, and they become quite good friends

POLYCASTE: Daughter of old family friend, don’t know each other too well, best friends with her brother, she’s a bit like hey this guy is cool and cute and all but i’m not sure i want to be in a relationship with him, her dad definitely signed her up for this, she’s honestly more of a wingman than a real contestant, more on that later

ANTINOUS: Previously competed on Penelope’s season which never made it on air, had had a discordant connection with Telemachus that some interpreted as homoerotic tension so the producers asked him back for Telemachus’ season, he’s as insufferable as ever,

PISISTRATUS: Wikipedia defines him as the “intimate friend of Telemachus.” They met previously and developed a close bond, neither wants to acknowledge that there might be anything more due to not wanting to harm the friendship, as such they often gravitate towards each other but it gets increasingly awkward, in a moment of sheer bravery Pisistratus signed himself up for the competition, a fact that Polycaste never lets him live down, sooooo many longing looks between him and Tele….yeah you can tell who’s winning this season 

[elianzis]

real or not it's still insane that you're fine with the guy threatening to sa penelope AND GO THROUGH WITH IT but when others think it's gross suddenly we don't 'see the vision'??? that's kinda !!! insane !!!

Eh, I'm not fine with him🤷, I never said that I approve Antinous words and actions

I know why people are mad, probably some of them were triggered and I'm sorry about that

You don't like it and that's OKAY.

But there are also people who likes dark ships.

That's all

It's just an endless argument between two groups of people. If you don't like it, you can give an opinion and leave, that's all. Can we stop this?

[metis-iphigenia]

As someone who has been a fan of The Odyssey, being inside the Epic: The Musical fandom has been absolutely so amazing. Every Saga that has happened up to the Ithaca Saga was just so,,, great that I can't find words😭😭 Not only that it has been amazing to read other peoples interpretion of the Gods, Myths, Monsters and Heroes alike.

Anyway, I can't get over the Ithaca Saga and how beautiful every song sounds. So have some of my favourite moments in this Saga.

1- The Challenge

In the past Sagas, I have already been too in love with the violin playing whenever Penelope was mentioned etc, not only that I already knew the singer of Penelope had an amazing voice. BUT OH MY LOVE DID THE VOICE CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD./pos

Sirens are real guys and she is one of them(real information)

I don't have a significant favourite part in this song because honestly Anna Lea's voice is so captivating that the entire song passes in a very fun way. Just a very beautiful, sorrowful song overall.

2- Hold Them Down

I already knew this song from the snippets released before but hearing it from Ayron's voice was a whole different experience. He was SO good. Again, the whole song was amazing.

"Can't you guys see we're being played? This is how they hold us down while the throne gets colder. Hold us down while we slowly age. Hold us down while the boy gets bolder. Where in the hell is our pride and our rage?"

One of my favourite moments in this song was this probably. While listening, I actually got the feeling that the suitors were fed up from waiting for Penelope to choose a king. I think Ayron did a wonderful job in not only singing a villainous song but also making us feel how entitled the suitors are actually are.

I especially loved the moment where Antinous gets hit with an arrow by Odysseus and him encouraging the others about their plan is cut off. I will admit, I did audibly laughed at that.

3- Odysseus

I literally can't think of words to describe the emotions I was feeling while listening to this song. I think this is my favourite song alongside of "Would You Fall in Love with Me Again".

The electric guitar playing in the start, again the symbol of him becoming a monster and leaving his humanity(the acoustic guitar) MAN I LOVED THIS SONG.

Him aiming for the torches just like Scylla has done was a great add to that too. Bunch of people has already pointed out this before but it can never be too many amiright? But yeah he really is using every trick in his domain just like Hermes told him to and I love it.

"Somewhere in the shadows lurks an agile, deadly foe..."

(...)

"He's using the darkness to hide his approaches!"

The image of Odysseus as Batman popped up in my head after these lines and I can't get it out😭(That au would be so amazing though, especially Talia as Penelope and Damian as Telemachus.)

"You don't think I know my own palace? I built it."

I was already smiling during this whole song and I screamed when he said this. like okay king you go slay I am right behind you

"Old king, our leader is dead. You've destroyed the serpent's head, now the rest of us are no longer a threat.

Old king, forgive us instead, so that no more blood is shed. Let's have open arms instead."

Well It is not a Saga if it doesn't have an "open arms" comeback I guess. Though I did cackle when Odysseus said "No" and killed the guy.

Honestly, deserved. I might be remembering it wrong but I think Eurymachus also asks for forgiveness in The Odyssey? Really glad Odysseus didn't grant it in The Odyssey and in The Epic because from what I remember in The Odyssey, Eurymachus was Antinous' right-hand man and just as bad as him. (Correct me if I am wrong please, It has been a while since the last time I read The Odyssey)

I have no idea who sings Eurymachus in Epic but this whole part was just enough for me to want to learn who it is.

TELEMACHUS' PART! Mico's voice is already beautiful to listen to and it became way more beautiful with the backround music. His own theme music, violin symbolising all that he has learned from his mother. Those sounds just went really well against eachother in my opinion.

"Brothers, we have company, and he's made a grave mistake."

The way this guy sang the sentence, especially "grave mistake" was so satisfying. Absolutely so satisfying I love it.

Also, I heard somewhere that the "Odysseus" repeating in the backround was how the name was pronounced and I love that detail. I loved whenever his name was said in the backround and it is also very interesting how every monsters song is named after them, just like this song.

The screams of the suitors after the whole slaughter is over was a really nice touch, I love it when Jorge adds screams into his songs.

The speech Odysseus gives is also worth to mention.

Mercy? Mercy? My mercy has long since drowned, It died to bring me home. And as long as you're around, my family's fate is left unknown.

You plotted to kill my son, you planned to rape my wife! All of you are going to die!

I also love how it doesn't beat it around the bush about what the suitors were planning to do to Penelope. It should be said as it is, they were planning to rape her which is so vile and awful. Which what made their deaths so satisfying exactly.

Overall, Odysseus was an amazing song. So amazing that I will be going insane about it to my friends for the next 2 months probably.

4- I Can't Help but Wonder

I was crying by the end of this song. Seeing them FINALLY reunite was so 😭😭😭 ALSO THEIR HUG. ☹️☹️☹️/pos

Oh my son, look how much you've grown. Oh my boy, the sweetest joy I've known. Twenty years ago I held you in my arms, how time has flown.

Used to say I'd make the storm clouds cry for you, used to say I'd capture wind and sky for you. Held you in my arms prepared to die for you, oh how times has flown.

Hi, so this should be illegal! All I want to say about this song is how emotional and beautiful it was. And I love how it reminded me of "Dear Theodosia" in Hamilton.

THE WARRIOR OF THE MIND COMEBACK. DEAD AND BURIED. I am not well after that ☹️☹️ Also Odysseus putting everything behind for his family,,, falls to knees with my hands ripping my hair... I am so happy for them.

5- Would You Fall in Love with Me Again?

Finally, we are onto the song that made me shit tears. The OdyPen reunion we all were waiting for just like they were.

THE VIOLIN IN THE START. It is so beautiful just like Penelope, I can't get over it.

Again, Anna Lea's voice make me want to just drop everything I have and listen to it until I start to lose the ability to hear. It is so amazing.

Love how whenever someone uses the word "Waiting" in the song, Its volume and impact raises more than the last one. I especially loved Penelope ending it with "for you." saying that it was him she was waiting for, not love itself because to her, he is her love. I don' know if that made sense but hope I was able to explain it.

The part where Penelope asks Odysseus to carry their wedding bed away from here was such a beautiful moment becasue Anna Lea just sang it very beautifully(as she does as always) It was so emotional and so beautiful.

How could you say this?

I had built that wedding bed with my blood and sweat, carved it into the olive tree where we first met. A symbol of my love everlasting...

Do you realize what you have asked me? The only way to move it is to it cut from its roots!

I just find their Tree Bed very sweet that is all. And a lot of people have pointed out how in The Odyssey, Penelope asked her husband this to prove to herself that this is her husband, while in Epic she asked this to prove to him that he is her husband. I find that change very sweet.

I will fall in love with you over and over again. I don’t care how, where, or when, no matter how long it’s been you're mine.

Don’t tell me you’re not the same person! You’re always my husband and I’ve been waiting, waiting.

The emotion in her voice OHHHH I AM NOT SURVIVING THIS SAGA.

Never getting over the fact that Epic The Musical ended with Odysseus and Penelope saying "I love you." to eachother. NEVER.

There are so much more things I want to say about this banger of a Saga. But for now, I will just congratulate them all on their beautiful voices(EVERY single person who sang in this musical has amazing voice, counting other Sagas too. Holy damn, y'all are amazing.)

The fandom has been an AWESOME one to be in too! Everyone is such amazing people and not only that all of you are very talented. So congratulations to every and each one of you who have done fanarts, fanfictions, animations, fan songs, analysis and so so much more about the Musical, all of you are amazing. <33

[decapitatedsnake]

My little (to no) context reaction to the wisdom saga 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙

(I couldn't stay up to watch the live so I'm just listening to the music = no animatics)

[30th of august 14:58]

Legendary

. I mean I've already heard legendary but I'm excited

. Gorgeous music, I feel transported into like ancient greece

. This sounds amazing

. The guy who voices Telemachus (MICO?) is adorable

. I don't like the riffs but he sounds good

. Telemachus deserves the world

. "L-l-l-l egendary"

. 108??!

. Isn't he like 13 here? (anywhere from 12-15 i feel like)

. I don't think we got a snippet of the ending

. MAN OF THE HOUSE

. AHHHA

. 20 YEARS?? WHAT

. I can't tell if they said 12 or 20

."BOY" Lowkey scared me

. EXCUSE YOU SIR TRAMP?? WHO DOES HE THINK-

. Antinous didn't come to play DAYUM

. This is insane

. "Whatcha gonna do about it champ?" Jorge was totally right Ayron is such a good Antinous

. Awwww he can't do anything :<

. Wait?

Little wolf

. GET HIM TELEY

. I love Antinous's voice

. I really loved the snippets for this one

. "I'll teach you all the lessons your daddy never could" it's on sight actually

. And little wolf is just so ughh I wanna punch him

. ATHENA

. FIGHT BACK

. BAHAHAHA UPPERCUT?

. QUICK THOUGHT

. And he👏is👏a 👏bully👏

. SHOW HIM

. ATHENA IS SO COOL

. OMG OMG

. Her voice is stunning

. The animatics are gonna go so hard

. Awww

. Oh he lost??

. Telemachus:((

. I mean yeah why did she come to your aid?

We'll be fine

. We only got Teleys bit so I'm excited

. Oo start with Athena

. FRIEND??

. Don't make me cry

. "He was a lot like you" gee I wonder why

. GREW APART :((

. HIS LIGHT!!

. GLORIOUS VOICE

. WAITT THEY CHANGED IT

. "Or if hes worth the hype but" > " I don't know what he's like"

. Fair enough

. And they changed "Cuz I got in a fight, sailed to an island when I've never left home shores"

. Okay it's been less than 5 minutes please refrain on the whole "friend" thing rn lol

. God telemachus voice (I can't shut up they're such good singers"

. DUET!!!!

. YOU WILL BE FINE

. Kid? Is he twenty or 12 I can't tell

Love in paradise

. FUCK YES

. WAIT THE INTRO?

. THEY WERE AT SEA FOR 10 YEARS, damn

. THE MUSIC SOARING, IT'S SO COOL, ouch

. CALYPSO MY LOVE (only the epic version though) [Ik it's up to interpretation but for me she doesn't sa him in this version]

. She's my wife 🙂 anyway 🤨

. HELL NO

. Oh shit love in paradise is athena watching, not Odysseus's experience

. Like this is when they first met and Calypso and Odysseus have been together for 7 years

. 7 YEARS

. YEAH I SAID THAT, before the song did

. ODYSSEUS!!

. WHAT > THE LEDGE

. ODYSSEUS 😭😭😭😭

. Wtf I am not emotionally stable enough for this

. Open..... arms.. BRO

. HIS MUM, POLITES AND EURY AND PENELOPE AND ATHENA??? BROO 😢

. YEAH I THINK HE DOES NEED HELP UGH

God games

. Ooo very grand

. Athena get him PLEASE

. She's about that business

. YES GOD GAMES INTRO OMGG

. WAIT WERE GONNA HEAR APOLLO AND HEAPHESTUS I'M SO EXCITED

. THE LITTLE MUSIC CHANEGS ARE SO GOOD

. ZEUS VOICE IS SO AMASZNIGN

. "and me" 😎

. That is not how I thought Apollo would sound

. He's batting for the sirens?? Um Ig that makes sense

. Oh Heaphestus I totally thought that aphrodite was next

. Well she's level 3 anyway

. BRO HIS DAD VOICES HEAPHESTUS I LOVE THAT

. Wait Apollo and Heaphestus are very reasonable, good for them

. NOW THE ONE WE'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR (excluding Hera)

. OMG IT'S THE SNIPPET THAT'S THE FINAL

. Athena's voice is new?

. Hmm she rerecorded but they didn't

. DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO KILL HER

. Don't fuck with Telemachus in front of Athena

. "Ughh release him"

. HERA

. OH FUCK SHE'S PERFECT CMON

. RELEASE HIM

. ZEUS YOU DICKHEAD SHE'S THE GODESS OF WISDOM LITERALLY ONLY HER COULD BEAT YOUR GAME

. WHAT WHAT

. NO

. WHAT???

. WHAT'S going on

. The music is telling me she like survived whatever his ambush was

. Zeus....

.THATS THE END WHATT

[knight-of-the-graces]

I’m reading through The Odyssey properly for the first time since we read it in school, and I have… some thoughts. A lot of thoughts, actually. Here they are.

Firstly, Athena. Just… Athena. What are you up to.

The fact that she —disguised as Mentes but obviously knowing who Telemachus is— immediately comments on how tall Telemachus is after questioning if he’s really Odysseus’ son…

Odysseus really is a short man, isn’t he. Even his patron goddess is making fun of him for it. Disguised, but still. Do you think Mentes ever has to pay for the comments Athena makes while pretending to be him?

(Plus Telemachus immediately gets philosophical in his own defense, which… excellent. Excellent. Good job.)

Also Athena’s solution to all of Telemachus’ problems is literally just “Hey, why don’t you take a ship and go find your dad? He’ll murder all these guys for you, trust me, I know the guy. From, uh, childhood.” And Telemachus is like “Hm… okay, I’ll think about it.” Definitely living up to ‘goddess of war’, aren’t you?

And when she leaves, she just… turns into a bird and off she goes. Athena. What. You are in a crowded hall full of people. How is Telemachus the only one who noticed this. Divine magic and the power of alcohol, probably, but… what.

(Also why is everyone except the goddess being referred to as ‘godlike��? Like, we’ve got Nestor, then Telemachus, now Penelope. Seriously, how many of them were ‘godlike’, except for the goddess herself?)

Also Telemachus is definitely being a bit of a broody teenager. Like, come on, if a song is making your mom sad you just change the song. I get that you’re the man of the house, but still. If my brother said something like that to my mom she might actually kill him. And she’s not the formerly Spartan queen of Ithaca.

(And now the bard is godlike too. What is up with you guys, describing people as godlike. Are you trying to offend the actual Greek gods, ’cause we all know how that’ll end for you. You were literally talking about how offending the gods goes like, ten minutes ago. Why are you all like this.)

Then when he’s basically saying ‘get out of my house’ Antinous tells him “Zeus will never give you the throne” and Telemachus’ response is basically “Yes he will”. Boy… I mean kinda, but wow.

Also, Eurymachus, you do not get to call someone ‘friend’ when you’re trying to marry his mom, living in his house against his will, and basically stealing his stuff. Excuse me. What. And if you were paying enough attention to notice ‘Mentes’ how didn’t you notice the whole ‘turns into a bird and flies off’ thing?

The sheer audacity of literally everyone I’ve met so far is definitely something. I’m remembering why this book killed me to read in school now, with the sheer Audacity and Chaos so far.

And Telemachus is immediately called ‘Odysseus’ well-beloved son’ in book two— all I can think of is him introducing himself to people as ‘father of dear Telemachus’ in The Iliad—

(Also don’t try to read The Odyssey through online libraries; the formatting is so messed up it’s actually painful. Alas, I will suffer.)

[break-the-glass-block]

Epic: the dog saga

so, Jay said that he wanted to see the dog, Argos, for a minute in in Legendary and then "never want to see that dog again."

but the man also said "the sirens were cut" which yes technically they were ✂️CUT 🔪 so I doubt that the dog is gonna show up once and never be referenced again cause of checkov's gun

when reading the original story for school, I believed that the suitors literally kicked Argos the dog out of the palace because it kept protecting Penelope from them so disguised Odyesseus saw the family dog abandoned outside the castle walls

but the suitors in the musical are EVIL rather than an annoyance as they were in the book. So guys I'm so very sorry if I'm right, but I think Antinous killed Argos the dog

[gingermintpepper]

I hear the original Odysseus and Epic the musical’s Odysseus are pretty different to the point they’re sorta their own characters- how do you feel about this?

Hello beloved Anon!! Thank you so much for the ask <3

Generally, I feel like a very big part of the appeal of adapting stories, especially myths, comes from seeing what these stories and characters mean to the author and how their interpretations of the themes and conflicts in a piece of classical literature are expressed in their interpretation of the story as a whole. This, naturally, means that I fully expect and look forward to unique interpretations of well loved figures whenever I hear that something is going to be adapted! I love being able to see what aspects of a character has stuck with an author, I love being able to trace said aspects back to the original myth and see what other places the author has picked up inspiration from along the way to inform their interpretations! A big part of the appeal of reading and interacting with a whole lot of different mythical media comes from my genuine excitement and anticipation in seeing how a favourite figure of mine has been adapted or how a moment from a story that I really like has been handled!

With respect to specifically Epic and the Odyssey, my opinions on how the characters have been adapted are somewhat mixed. Putting aside my general misgivings about the current writing of the musical, I really like the directions Herrans has taken with the theming and the broad strokes of Odysseus' character and consequent arc. I like the idea of Eurylochus as a well-meaning but still very fallible second, I like the idea of Odysseus and Athena's close-knit mentorship that completely goes to shit after the Cyclops Incident, I even really liked a lot of the representations of the gods - from Hermes' carefree and relaxed kind of power to Aelous' frivolous cruelty to Zeus' power and command prior to God Games. A lot of the interpretations in the Wisdom Saga are things I feel much more neutral-negative about though. While Telemachus' ingénue-esque naivete and enthusiasm in Legendary and Little Wolf is endearing, I much prefer the Odyssey's slight desperate but unfailingly politically apt Telemachus - the wily son who helped his mother with her staling schemes and who was praised for his wit by his father. Telemachus is a young man and while he's technically characterised as such in EPIC, he's also treated in the same way a Disney Princess is where she is technically a young woman but must still appeal to very small children and I'm just not a big fan of that. I'm also not a big fan of Antinous' characterisation though that was something I was originally intensely excited about in the early days of following EPIC! Hold Them Down is a song I'd been dying to hear a full version for because I felt like it captured the quiet menace of Antinous so well - his charisma, his vile motivations, his absolute disdain for the strong-willed Penelope who has thwarted his attempts to take Ithaca for himself and the way his mask has slipped from barely cordial but socially correct visitor to absolute monster who is willing to do anything to get that crown. Just, UGH, Hold Them Down had me HYPED, but the Antinous we got in Little Wolf was... inelegant. Not subtle at all, crass with his intentions - the kind of guy who would've gotten kicked out ages ago for contempt against the queen. The whole political aspect of why they couldn't just kick the damn suitors out is that technically they'd never done anything punishable that would justify rejecting them and sending them on their way. Antinous was the head of that malicious compliance - the one who had the intelligence to be menacing but not so much that his words could be blatant insults or threats. That was part of the whole point of Odysseus striking Antinous down first! Little Wolf's Antinous,,, was not that and I found myself intensely disappointed by it considering that he was that in the earlier versions of Hold Them Down.

My other misgivings in terms of characters just have to do with Apollo, Hephaestus and Zeus in God Games tbh. I'm someone who is generally more concerned with the portrayal of gods in a work than I am with the humans and EPIC has a super unique take on all of the gods that accompany and inhabit its world. I've made a separate post voicing my misgivings about Epic's Apollo but I don't have a long laundry list of issues with EPIC's Hephaestus, I just wish he had more time to shine and that there was more to chew on with respect to his argument. Zeus however is in a similar boat to Antinous where in the first half of the play he was perfect - literally the perfect neutral god-figure who was simply doing his job and obviously not personally swayed one way or another when it came to Odysseus and was maybe having some fun at his expense in Thunderbringer. His violence in God Games then was not only greatly surprising and seemingly out of character, it was also completely unsubstantiated in the story of EPIC itself. Zeus had nothing against Odysseus, he has no particular reason to bar Athena from rescuing him. Likewise, he is the one who offers up the proposal of a game, why would he have a problem with losing it? The reason of 'he doesn't like to lose' doesn't cut it for how extreme his reaction was and it completely undermines what was a genuinely super enjoyable and different take on Zeus in a modern Western-based greek myth inspired piece of media. Absolutely such a tragedy to me.

Of course, to me, the biggest actual crime of adaptation that EPIC's committed with respect to its characters is that we only have about 10 songs left based on Herrans' original outline for the musical and Penelope still has not had a single song or showing or meaningful reference apart from "I am Odysseus and I miss my wife (her name is Penelope)". The Odyssey was a twofold story split between Odysseus vibing on the way back to Ithaca and the political bullfuckery that was awaiting for him when he inevitably returned to Ithaca. The center of that aforementioned political bullfuckery was Penelope and Telemachus. Considering Penelope has been Odysseus' guiding motivation for the entire play, the fact that there has not been a single solid piece of real characterisation that can be attributed to her this late in the story is uh! Criminal actually, and it's the only thing for which I hold some level of genuine disdain over.

In conclusion: I generally quite look forward to people doing adaptations and interpretations of myths and such! I generally think EPIC's done a good job with the adventure and exploration part of the epic but the political and domestic aspect of it really isn't where Herrans shines as a writer and it shows.

[findroleplay]

EPIC THE MUSICAL! Mostly wanting to play Penelope here but open! FxA, Novella/Adv Lit, Discord preferred!

Was The Odyssey my favorite high school English class read? Absolutely! And is it now my favorite hyperfixation in musical form? Sure is!

Anyways, I'd just love to dig my hands into this fascinating universe and all the moments that either never happened, or were glossed over in both the original story and musical. With that said, I'm open to a lot! All I truly ask of my partners is that we write at least 3 well-formed paragraphs per reply. I'm CHATTY, and love to yap through my muses and dig into every detail. So if novella and text walls are your thing, I'm your dude! Anyways, I'm keeping my muse list pretty short for this one. I'm still new to rping for this fandom and want to stick to who I'm most interested in- Penelope! Or a siren, which we can get to in a bit.

For Penelope, I'll take anyone you can make a convincing argument for.

Is it Odysseus returning to her side and recounting the horrors he's seen, seeking out her comfort and guidance as he comes to terms with insurmountable horrors he's both committed and endured? Does his journey seep it's tendrils into his happily ever after? This man has GOT to be loaded with PTSD. Like. Actually filled to the brim with it.

Maybe you want to play sweet lil' Telemachus who isn't so little anymore, but is still very much a mama's boy! To be clear, no weirdness between Penelope and Telemachus. This is the Odyssey, not Oedipus Rex. Got it? Got it. Anyways, I would just love to sprinkle in some plot with these two, and tbh if you play just about anyone I will most likely multi-muse and play the lil lad myself

The last, least wholesome option would be everyone's least favorite: Antinous. This guy sucks big time, but MAN would it be fun to play him interacting with Penelope. It would most likely be fairly unsavory no matter what went down, so be prepared for that :tm:

ANYWAYS!!!! My other muse would be literally just like. A siren? Idk, I just love scary man-eating mermaids and really wanna play one. Spinoff where someone from the crew befriends a siren after sparing her from a tail slicing! Tbh this doesn't even have to be Odyssey related. Just let me play a siren in literally any setting with any plot and I'll be happy. Monster-canoodlers and monster-hand-holders, now is your chance!

Anyways, thanks for reading this disaster. Look forward to hopefully getting some connects! Add me on Discord at pinkghostie if this seems your jam

-

[sheinthatfandom]

Oh I wasn’t even thinking that any of them wanted penny to produce an heir. That’s terrifying. The way I took it when he said she needs to pick a man to adorn her it’s not because any of them think they have a right to be king. Like they know they don’t have royal blood or god blood seeing as how ody is Hermes great grandson (or great great grandson I forget) I think they just want the power of being that close to the throne. And Telemachus while like 19/20 I’m pretty sure before getting to the throne he has to like prove himself but I don’t remember how. Maybe a battle or a survival in the woods type of deal. But these suitors have been here for like over a decade breaking this boy and his self esteem down. They know if he does that and succeed he has the throne and they are fucked so they break him down in hopes he either never goes to his become a man sleep away camp thing or he does but he second guesses himself so badly he ends up dying while gone and then the kingdom has to have them on the throne.

What I don’t get is how they aren’t all killing each other to make sure they win. Like wouldn’t it behoove one of the older slower guys to poison and kill Antinous?

You know really thinking about it.

Telemachus is 20 years old.

Dude is definitely old enough to just be king.

Yet all of these Suitors are trying to marry his mom.

Also, how old is Odysseus?

Like Telemachus was just an infant when he left for war. And He was gone 20 years. For the sake of simplicity Odysseus must have been at LEAST 25 before the war.

He must be mid to late forties post time skip.

So to put that into perspective. all these Suitors are trying to bag a woman who (lets say Odysseus and her are close in age) is in her forties and likely past Child bearing age. So Marrying her would not produce an heir. So these guys would have zero claim to the throne, especially considering the fact that Telemachus is an adult. He would be the next king.

That being said, Good for Penelope being able to attract all of these men.

[xavierknightsbridge]

A Greek Hero’s Belly

Antinous, a handsome greek hero, let out a bellyquaking belch and rubbed his newly bloated bare belly with evident satisfaction. He smacked his lips and rubbed the sleep from his eyes. Slowly, he noticed two things: one the awe-struck stares of his war band, his brothers in arms, all well muscled dark Greek men. The second: the massively distended belly that hung beneath his twin, bared pectorals, swinging pendulously in front of him. Gods, he’d never felt so full. 

The third thing Antinous noticed was that someone was missing. Each warrior had been partnered with another, to ensure a bond strong enough that the other would protect the other’s body with his life. And it was Antinous’ handsome, muscular partner Ixion who was currently missing. 

Antinous let out another great, pendulous-belly shaking belch, and a familiar scent emerged from his mouth: the sweat dripping down Ixion’s great pectorals. And a brooch - Ixion’s, which he wore on the cloak covering said fat pectorals. Antinous huge, swollen, distended and very full belly let out a triumphant gurgle and Antinous felt something very heavy shift inside of his giant bare gut. 

Grinning sheepishly, Antinous gave his new Ixion-filled belly an admonishing smack. “Oops. Looks like I did it again.” He rubbed his man-eating, bare vore belly fondly. Gods, Ixion felt amazing inside him - being eaten up by him and filling out his big belly to its proper size. But Antinous felt a little guilty too, even as his belly continued to work on his former friend - now just meat in his big belly. His belly had seemingly taken Ixion’s oath very - and deliciously - literally. 

“Guess Ixion drew the short straw and I’m down a partner.” Antinous said, stroking the circumference of his smooth, swollen spherical stomach. “Though guess in a way he’s gonna be protecting my body for good now, being part of me forever.” He gave his big bare belly a pat, and stretched, drawing his own full bare pecs up, and causing his man-full belly to wobble and bounce in front of him. He belched again, causing a piece of Ixion’s saliva drenched cloak to fly from his mouth and land on the upper curve of his massively expanded naked belly.

“Hey, do you guys think we need a new system,” Antinous said to his men, as his big bare belly began to make noisy digestion sounds as it got to grips with the huge amount of meat (formerly Ixion) inside his bloated round stomach. But looking at the many erections his men sported as they gazed at his bare man eating belly, Antinous grinned and rubbed his belly of Ixion. “Me neither.” His belly let out a gurgle as it fed on his meal of former brother in arms, not just his belly. “Sorry buddy,” Antinous said with a final satisfied belch, before pushing out his belly and indicating his brothers in arms should remove his loincloth and begin to pleasure his predator’s loins. “Looks like you’re outvoted.” art by @vgbellylover

[rsbry-beret]

Let’s See What a Fire Feels Like

find it on ao3 here :

Tobin and Leif go stargazing. Tobin listens to Leif talk about constellations. Tobin tries not to kiss him. Tobin almost succeeds.

- - - - -

It was a warm summer night, air cloying even through Tobin’s shirt, hoodie long abandoned on the blanket spread against damp grass.

“There’s the Summer Triangle, Tobes. Straight up.” Leif craned his head back, hands falling behind him to hold himself up. His left one landed on Tobin’s right, and he flipped his palm over to clasp Leif tighter.

“I see it, yeah.”

Leif glanced over his shoulder to Tobin, lips spreading into a thin smile. “The star on the lower left, that’s Deneb. It’s the tail of Cygnus, the swan constellation.” He turned his head back to the sky and Tobin leaned in, eyes following as Leif lifted his right hand to point.

Leif’s hand glided down slightly. “Cygnus flies south along the Milky Way. It’s right by Aquila… there, there it is. The eagle constellation.”

Tobin grinned to himself, gaze flickering between the stars and Leif’s face, open and expressive in a way it never was under harsh fluorescent lights. “Yeah?”

“Yeah. It used to be right next to the Antinous constellation, but they got merged together a long time ago. Kinda sad…” Leif turned his head again, a few inches from Tobin’s face. Tobin grinned and made a vaguely inquisitive noise.

“Antinous… he was this guy who either drowned or was sacrificed.” Leif’s voice was quieter, eyes glancing at Tobin, the sky, Tobin again. “His lover, emperor Hadrian, was so devasted he named a city after him, Antinoöpolis,” Leif said.

Tobin swayed forward a little. “Oh.”

“And he made a statue of him. He minted coins with his face on him across the empire, and said he was a God, and he, uh, named a constellation after him.”

“So he could always be with him?”

“Yeah.” Leif’s voice rasped. He cleared his throat. “Yeah.”

Tobin squeezed Leif’s hand. “That’s pretty gay, Leif.”

Leif let out a big laugh and leaned back, hand leaving Tobin’s to push his hair off his forehead. “Yeah! Yeah, uh, they were pretty gay, Tobin.”

Tobin tried not to miss the warmth. It was warm enough, anyway. Summer. He fell onto his back with a sigh. “Hadrian, huh?”

“Yeah,” Leif said, still sitting up. “He, like, focused less on imperialism and more on unification within Rome? So that’s cool I guess. He started a cult, though.”

“Gay rights.”

“Tobin.”

He laughed and tilted his head up to look at Leif, who was trying to look scandalized but was failing.

“Nah, but really, Hadrian sucked. For a lot of reasons. Like, slavery, dude.”

“Shit, yeah.” Tobin sat up again to face Leif. “Antinous, though. He was cool?”

Leif shook his head, still smiling. “I dunno, Tobin. It was a long time ago. I only read so much of the Wikipedia article.”

They fell into a comfortable silence again. Tobin watched a mosquito flit around the edges of the frayed quilt they were sat on. “Hey, look,” he said, wrapping one arm around Leif’s waist and gesturing upwards with the other. “Orion’s Belt.”

Leif turned up, then to Tobin, eyes soft.

“See, I can be smart for you, too.”

Leif melted against his side. His hand came up to cup Tobin’s cheek. “Everyone knows Orion’s Belt, idiot.”

Tobin’s eyelids fluttered, and he swayed forward half an inch, leg jolting slightly closer. “Admit it, you were impressed.”

Leif pressed his face against Tobins shoulder and slid his hand back from his cheek to against his neck. “Was not.”

“Was too,” Tobin whispered, and tilted down to press his lips against Leif’s hair. Leif lifted his head at the action and stared.

“...Was not,” Leif repeated dumbly, and Tobin smiled, and kissed him, and kissed him, and kissed him.

title from Cassiopeia by Sara Bareilles

[crash-cinematic-universe]

The Colorful Days

pairing: Amazon Eve/fem!reader

warnings: gay?? (none rlly, a bit of angst ig)

summary/request:  Hii! Could I request something with Amazon Eve from AHS freak show? I'm not too sure on plot, maybe something angsty that ends in a ton of fluff and maybe even a kiss? Thank you so much!! ♡ - @sexuallyconfusedspacedragon456

notes: i’d let amazon eve step on me and thats it

_________________________

To an outsider, life in a freak show seems exciting. It seems mystical and mysterious-- it seems like a life full of wonder and curiosity. Hell, there’s even the occasional audience member that tries to escape to the freak show in search of a new, more interesting life. No one ever stops to entertain the thought that maybe life as a freak isn’t mystical. No one stops to think that maybe, just maybe, life as a freak is dull and uninteresting and cruel.

Ever since the first day I joined Fraulein Elsa’s Cabinet of Curiosities, I learned more and more that being a freak show performer isn’t magical at all. Every day is the same: get up at dawn, eat breakfast, work around the camp, rehearse, eat dinner, sleep. The days eventually lost their color, each moment I spent at the freak show was a moment of my life that had no purpose… no meaning. 

That was, until she arrived.

Seven Years Earlier

“Ay Y/n!” Jimmy shouts, jogging over to me. He smiles, his curly hair falling in front of his shimmering eyes. Any other girl would swoon at the sight. Any other girl would see some gorgeous god and gladly fall to her knees for Jimmy. I don’t see a god, I just see my best friend. “Ya hear the news? Someone new is comin’ to join the show.”

“Poor soul,” I mutter, quickly bending down to tie Jimmy’s worn-down shoes. He has a nasty habit of leaving them untied. “I wouldn’t wish this life on my worst enemy. I just hope they’re interesting.” Jimmy gives me a sad look.

“Hey, it can’t be that bad.” He reaches out and touches my face. “You got me at least, right?” I give him a weak smile. I can’t help but feel… wrong. Jimmy had women falling at his feet, desperate for his touch, and yet those sparks that so many people talk about just… aren’t there. I love Jimmy, sure, but not in the way I’m supposed to. Come to think about it, I’ve never loved any man like that. I guess I really am a freak, huh?

“C’mon, Darlin’,” I say, standing up straight. “Lets go welcome our newest victim.” he smiles, gripping my hand in his. Jimmy’s hand is rough and large-- it almost hurts to touch his heavily calloused hands. 

“Y/n?” Jimmy asks timidly. The small feeling of worry grips my soul, the silent hope that Jimmy wasn’t going there surfacing in my mind. “Would you ever think of maybe… have you ever thought of how it would be if you and I were… a thing?”

Oh no. “A thing?”

“Uh, yeah, like,” Jimmy searched for the right words as I searched for an escape from this conversation. “I like you. A lot. Do you like me?” Fuck. 

“Jimmy,” I start, my voice soft and careful. The hopeful look on his face is fading, and I feel like shit. “You’re a great person. You’re incredibly kind and funny, you always look out for me-- and hey, you’re pretty hot, but I--”

“It’s okay, Y/n, you don’t have to make me feel better. You deserve someone better. You deserve your soulmate, whoever he may be” My muscles tense. Whoever he may be. 

“That’s the problem, Jimmy.” I say without thinking. I might as well say it now. “Jimmy I… I don’t think my soulmate is a man.”

Jimmy’s face goes from confusion, to realization, then to complete blankness. He just… looks at me. He doesn’t react, and the feeling of dread washes over me. I can’t lose Jimmy, he’s the only person that makes me feel in this damn camp. 

“I’m sorry, Jimmy.” I say, my voice breaking. “I don’t know what’s wrong with me. If I could love you like that, I would.” Jimmy gently pulls me into a hug, his hand slowly stroking my hair.

“There’s nothing wrong with you, Y/n.” He says softy, and a wave of relief crashed over me. 

“No hard feelings, right?” I ask quietly. He nods slowly. 

It’s only then that we realize Elsa has returned, the new freak following closely behind her. Our eyes meet for a split second, and my entire body tenses. They disappear i

“She’s so…” Jimmy trails off.

“Tall.” 

Back to present

The tent was bursting with energy, music and laughter booming through the room. It was Halloween, and every freak was overjoyed by their day off. Jimmy was across the room playing with Pepper and Salty, leaving me alone to enjoy the sight of the joyous party from afar. Ever since Eve had arrived, the color that the days once held had returned. The feelings I was supposed to feel for Jimmy had surfaced, but I didn’t feel them around him. I felt them for Eve. 

“Hey, Y/n, where are you?” Eve calls, referring to the far-away place my mind had wandered to. 

“I’m here now.” I smile, laughing as Ma Petite makes funny faces at Meep, causing him to jump around. “I’m going for a walk. Feel free to join me.” I stand up, strutting out of the crowded tent, letting the warm summer-night air caress my skin. The sun was almost completely gone below the horizon, stars shining in the endless navy of the evening sky. It’s calm, the sound of a gentle summer breeze contrasting greatly against the roaring laughter in the tent. It’s only then that Eve makes her presence known.

“It’s nice out here, isn’t it?” She says, taking two long strides before she’s next to me. 

“Ya know, the papers said the Antinous constellation was supposed to be over tonight.” I say, gesturing at the stars. Eve snorts.

“I don’t see anything.”

 I shake my head. “Neither do I.”

Eve stands still next to me, her eye scanning the stars. My heart sped up at the sight of the shimmering look in her eyes. “Who is Antinous, anyway?” She asks.

“Antinous was actually a real person. He was the boyfriend of Roman Emperor Hadrian. Once he and the emperor met, they were inseparable, completely and totally in love. After a few years, Antinous went hunting for lions in the desert and they found out he had drowned in the Nile.” I explain.

“Jeez, I can’t imagine that the emperor guy reacted well.” Eve says humorously, turning to face me.

“That’s the thing, people believe that Hadrian received a prophecy saying that he’d be guaranteed future success if he sacrificed the thing he loved most in the world. That just happened to be Antinous.” Eve’s eyes widen.

“That’s horrible. If you love someone, you should never hurt them.” Eve says, shaking her head.

“A bunch of queer communities see him as a sort of symbol. People like me are sacrificed for the guarantee of… false success.” I shrug, not realizing my words until it was too late.

“People like you?” Eve inquires. She looks confused, but interested. 

“Uh, yeah,” I say, trying to phrase everything correctly. “I figured out a few years back that I”m just… not into guys. Trust me, I’ve checked, but not even our dear lobster boy can get me going.”

“So does that mean you’re into girls?” Eve asked as a small smile grew on her face. “‘Cuz I am.”

I smirk. “I’m into one girl in particular.” She smiles, and before I know it, her lips are on mine. For the first time in a long time, I feel exactly like I’m supposed to.

[australet789]

oh shit im mentioned!

Thank you!

And dw, i have noticed that even if Odysseus keeps singing about his wife in all the musical, fans forget her A LOT. I dont think people understand that has Penelope not been alive and still waiting, Odysseus wouldnt have done what he did. Has she not lied, has she not been endangered Odysseus would have stayed hidden. That's even canon in the book, Athena had to slap him in the head and be "your wife is doing all this FOR YOU MOVE YOUR ASS THESE GUYS ARE A DANGER".

Like, why do you think Odysseus is disguised? Athena told him that the suitors wanted to kill him. That's in the book. Im guessing the musical is not spoiling Athena yet until "Odysseus", so we already know the suitors wanted Telemachus dead, how do we tell the audience Penelope is also in danger?

By showing us how disgusting these men are in regards to her. Because trust me, if Antinous hadnt called Penelope a "tramp" in Legendary, no one would have batted an eye in hating him and that Ody needed to hurry. Telemachus had Athena on his side, Penelope had nobody (lmao)

Also the fact that the sirens were used to show us the monster and Athena bullshitted a lawyer argument in Olympus court and then agreeing Odysseus had a reason to be cruel to them? Like hello? Did you all miss the point of Different Beast?

Speaking of Athena whyyyyyyy also do you think Ody begged for her on Calypso's island? "Calypso didnt do anything, she was only gone too strong". My dude, my man was suicidal. The suitors only were there on Penelope's castle too, why Ody needs to kill them? Why not only talk and show them the KING is back? Because, they are, as you said, a clear parallel to Calypso. Hold Them Down is needed so we can realize what actually happened in those 7 years in Ogigya. Those suitors were never going to take a no for a answer and the price is PENELOPE.

The same way Odysseus was the price for Calypso

Can I just start by saying your art is SO breath-taking everyone go follow @australet789 !!! I mean it!!!

Yes thank you! I tried very hard not to be needlessly annoyed in my response but I will be the first to admit I failed at several instances because of the condescending way Penelope was presented. To claim it was a critique when it’s clear there was no understanding of her very character? I can’t abide by it that’s my girl that’s my bestie that’s my queen Penelope forever.

I appreciate you engaging with my thoughts 🙏🏼

[mackenzie-lukasiaks]

audc rewatch: “let the dancing begin” (s1, e1)

yeah. I’m really procrastinating y’all. s/o to lifetime for putting the full episodes up on youtube.

skill=technique

theme=hollywood

thinking about how gianna newborg said she doesn't think that mckaylee from s2 actually used her scholarship and like.....can you imagine going through all of That for nothing. I guess you get to keep the cash but still.

who was the girl dancing in the opening credits of this season cause I don't think it was any of the contestants

"she's my god" please pick a new religion

the early 2010s fashion of it all

why did I think jordyn was much younger than 12 when she was on this show?? and also why is her hair so crimped

yvette really was a whole fucking thing wasn't she

you put a broke, shitty pittsburgh dance teacher on one lifetime tv show and suddenly all these women and children are acting like she's bob fosse reborn

I wonder why they did this first season in new york but the second one in los angeles. 

I'm just kidding, this is still los angeles, it's just a different studio, and I'm just dumb lol.

you know that if your mom starts the first episode talking about how you are Definitely going to win, you're almost guaranteed to go home within the first three weeks

kyleigh jai's mom looks like monica from friends

*spongebob voice* TeChNiQuE

"the skill for this week was technique but tbh I cbf about that because elisabeth is tall and blonde and I always wanted to be tall and blonde so" like. thanks abby. for nothing. also no wonder elisabeth didn't do well since she didn't actually have the best technique.

"overconfident people, I'm not attracted to. when people think they're all that and a bag of chips, maybe they're eating too many chips." whatever you say, yvette

I like how kelly says "bobby newberry" as if I would know who tf that is

asia's make-up............kristie ray, just let her be six

I love anthony doing all his choreographing while wearing a tie and a hat

it's funny that gianna said that in s2 she was hoping for tap but that a lot of the girls didn't know tap. I wonder if the poor experience with tap in this first season is why they just never bothered to do another one.

"the infamous...the lovely abby lee miller" pick one

*spongebob voice* SqUiDwArD!!! tEcHnIqUe!!!!

remember that one twitter thread where one of the pussycat dolls said it was basically a sex trafficking group. is that why robin antin got replaced for s2.

hiphop trio (jordyn, lexine, asia): poor lexine. also never understood why it was such a bad thing for them to lipsync during the dances cause I know they always got angry at asia for doing that but it seems like a reflex that they almost don't realize? so who cares?

I'm all the like white tweens in the audience booing when richy said he didn't think it was good hiphop

"asia, you were born to be a pussycat doll." hmm. not sure I'd want to hear someone say that to my six year old.

they should've kept it at this theater because this alley is a great place for fights

jazz trio (madison, zack, hadley): they couldn't get robin to give them the rights to the actual version of "when i grow up" for this trio?? they had to use the knockoff version instead??

they just tell zach he has bad knees and move on. okay.

oh yvette, hadley is definitely on their radar.

tap trio (kyleigh jai, tessa, tua): I just wanna know why they were facing the back for the ending pose??

"tua, you are asian and therefore your biggest competitors are the two other asians." maybe that's why robin got kicked off.

why did tessa's mom hate tua so much??

contemporary trio (elisabeth, amanda, brianna): brianna was just such a good dancer. so was amanda. elisabeth did kind of get boned getting put with them for this first trio.

abby, it's almost like picking elisabeth because she was tall and blonde wasn't the right decision for the technique challenge.

"a ball of hope and fresh air"

the first richy finger wag!! and so soon!! also the first tearful elisabeth monologue

"let's all clap for divorce guys!"

I'm erin implying that elisabeth played the divorce card on purpose (but I assume that was an editing choice. but still. lmao.)

also they didn’t say anything to brianna??

top dancer(s): brianna, madison (how poetic lmao)

safe: hadley, zach, asia, lexine, kyleigh jai, jordyn, amanda

bottom dancers: elisabeth, tua, tessa

eliminated dancer: tessa