#good ganondorf is complicated

[skyloftian-nutcase]

Anybody want more Good Ganondorf content?

(@silvercaptain24 more of that plot bunny you had :) also @luckybyrdrobyn @artisticgamer @wildsage00 I remembered to tag y'all this time lol)

Link wasn't entirely sure how long he had been stuck in this bedroom after the Gerudo women had left, but he knew it had been too blasted long. By his third attempt to get out of bed, he had at least finally managed to sit up without immediately wanting to pass out. If he could just manage to get up, it would be a start.

The room was small, and the only supplies were medicinal, with the exception of some food and water. No weapons in sight, naturally, but he wouldn't expect any from...

Well. He couldn't exactly call this place a cell, but he was a prisoner nonetheless.

Why had they captured him? Why hadn't they just killed him? Did they need him to use the Triforce? They'd already seized the Triforce of Courage from him in the last battle (and goddesses he tried so very hard to not think about the last battle, about their catastrophic failure, about the bodies littering the field, the queen's desperation and anger and panic and--). He couldn't imagine why they possibly needed him. Cia had been obsessed with him but had still tried to kill him; Ganondorf didn't even care about his existence, so why was he still alive?

He wasn't finding out. He was getting out of here.

As soon as the thought crossed his mind, the door swung open, making the captain jump. He tried to stand and face whoever was entering, but all he succeeded in doing was nearly face planting on the floor until strong, steady hands caught him.

"Nabooru figured you might try to get up," a deep voice rumbled.

Link's blood ran cold. He knew that voice. He'd heard it on the battlefield. He'd heard it when the Triforce of Courage was ripped out of him.

Ganondorf.

The captain tried to struggle against the monster's grip, but he was still too frustratingly weak. Before he knew it he was scooped up into massive arms, and a mild panic squeezed his chest so tightly he couldn't breathe. He couldn't stand to be so close to the man, so completely and utterly helpless and vulnerable in the arms of someone who could crush him in a heartbeat.

When he was gently lowered into the bed, he stared at Ganondorf in a mixture of bewilderment and wariness. "What do you want from me?"

Ganondorf raised an eyebrow at the question. "Currently, I want you to stop trying to get out of bed. You're going to worsen your condition."

Link narrowed his eyes. "And then?"

"And then?" Ganondorf repeated. "And then you'll get sicker, foolish child."

"What difference does it make to you?"

Ganondorf sighed. "Despite whatever idea of me you might have, I'm not interested in you getting yourself killed."

Link inhaled sharply to throw out a retort and found he had none, his mind too weary for whatever biting remark it usually would conjure. Then images of the battle came to mind, and he suddenly found he had far more words than he could say all at once. He settled for, "Killing people hasn't seemed to bother you that much."

Ganondorf watched him a moment, his expression unreadable. It made Link squirm. Finally, the man looked away. "I understand your impression of me is based on the war. That's... understandable. You'll be surprised to know my intentions with the Triforce are not to destroy Hyrule, and I don't kill outside the battlefield. I prefer not to kill at all if I don't have to... but war is war."

The words tore through Link's uneasiness, setting his heart and mind on fire. He jerked upright in the bed, ignoring the dizzy spell that accompanied it. "War is war?! That's your excuse for causing Hyrule to be torn apart at the seams?! Is that what you said before they sealed you away as well?!"

"And what words does your queen use?" Ganondorf fired back, his voice lowering dangerously.

"Queen Zelda is trying to protect Hyrule!" Link argued, his vision blurring as he turned to face his enemy more fully. "This entire war started because of you!"

"I had my soul split into pieces and was sealed away," Ganondorf said, his voice growing quiet, and the air in the room grew impossibly heavy. "Would you not do anything to escape such a torturous fate? I used what abilities I had to manipulate someone powerful enough to do the deed. The destruction she wrought as a result is not my doing."

"Nice way of saying you started this mess but don't want to take responsibility for it," Link snapped.

Surprisingly, that gave the king pause, and he sighed, looking away. "I cannot claim responsibility for what I have not done. I won't. Everything that has occurred since my return is my doing. Not before."

Link was growing too worn out for this argument, but he still had too many things to say. When he opened his mouth to do so, however, he coughed instead, collapsing onto the pillows. Ganondorf's gaze returned to him, softer and mildly worried, and it baffled Link beyond comprehension.

His enemy shook his head subtly with another sigh and tucked the hero in a little better. "I figured this conversation would be too much for you in this state. Get some rest, child."

The captain wanted to scream at him, to find the Master Sword and gut him, but between the man's strange look and the teenager's own exhaustion, all he could do was comply, closing his eyes.

[ganondoodle]

rough beast ganondorf design + sketches + notes design combines the typical boar form (dark beast + cloud form from botw), the oni one (demon king gan) hint at the draconic one to come but keep part of his humanity with his clothing being mostly intact

as the battle with Demon King Ganondorf comes to an end, the sages previously knocked out start to wake up again, he is cornered and hurt and as fear of being imprisoned, tortured and exploited overwhelms him he transforms into the Beast form, breaking the arena you were fighting him in and him going for Zelda as she is the biggest threat (he remembers her destroying dark beast gan and she reminds him of sonia, who is the one you sealed his human body back in the day)

you and zelda flee through the cracks of the earth as more earthquakes happen with a beast at your heels thats now truly only out to kill as fast as possible as he burrows after you (first sketch)

the path takes you both just below the surface and as you are trapped in a dead end zelda shields herself and link with her light shield ability, which protects you both from immediate damage but cant soften the impact from gan charging at you, the impact of which breaks you all three to the surface and the battle takes place in the same spot as botws dark beast fight-

fight is very challenging as gan is smaller than the dark best version, jumping and charging at you while still able to cast spells, now truly throwing everything he can at you in the hopes of ending you both

fight ends with you shooting an arrow at zelda, her deflecting it at the right angle and it shooting off the enigma stone on gans forehead; he falls seemingly defeated and as zelda runs to take the stone away gan through sheer panic lunges for the stone triggering his dragon transformation and making way for the final fight

(summary of the end: in the final fight gan snatches up both link and zelda once he transformed into the black dragon and takes flight toward the sky, zelda falls from between his teeth and knowing that she cant get to link and help him in any way from the ground she, while falling, takes out the enigma stone she has kept in a save container in her backpack all this time and swallows it for her own transformation, in her white dragon form she takes active action and charges at gans head so link is freed, then supports him in the fight itself; at the end link plunges into dragon-gans mouth to reach the stone on the inside where he makes use of the 'medicine' previously made using the moonbloom taked from kogas secret lab, link and the stone are spit out and as gan reverses into a human and falls link is caught by zelda and he uses the second charge of it on her to bring her back as well; as all three fall from the skies as the sages have made their way through the tunnel that beast gan made earlier, they help link and zelda getting to the ground safely while the yiga do the same for gan - final end end isnt determined yet but this is waht i got so far and even if i have written this once before i felt it was fitting to do it again and no you cant tell me this is too much of a wishfulfillment thing bc it literally is just that as i cant actualyl change whats in the game, so even if im trying to make it all fit well together i can still do what i want nhakjdbgshdbhsjka)

(totk rewritten project)

[rawliverandgoronspice]

The big problem with Rauru Tears of the Kingdom 2023's writing is that he acts as if he's owed everything and owns everyone --even when he cloaks it with the veneer of care, selflessness, or tragedy.

And if only this had been a conscious writing choice, explored and unearthed through the course of the game, he could have been the most interesting and layered Legend of Zelda character of all time. 😔

[sincerely-sofie]

Fun Fact about me: I started writing a Legend of Zelda fanfic inspired by a piece of fanart I barely remember that was probably stolen and posted on Pinterest. I never finished writing it, and didn’t have an outline for the snippets that I did manage to write, but it involved Zelda disguising herself as Sheik to infiltrate Ganondorf’s ranks, earn his trust, and then assassinate him when his guard was down. Things get complicated by a realization that Zelda doesn’t want to abide by the destiny that’s been written out for her, and Ganondorf getting a lot of red flags that start to activate his Found Family Trope instinct. Here’s some comics about that fic!

Visiting the Shadow Temple:

Sneaking out of a camp the battalion she’s leading has set up in order to maintain her disguise:

Unfortunate timing for Zelda’s triforce to activate its lifetime subscription package:

Ganondorf’s having some concerns and eyeing the adoption papers:

Assigning morality to emotions, which is never a good thing:

[mirensiart]

So uhhh I made some ZeLink oc's too since like everyone is now too and I really like KeyChain!!! The two of them are kinda complicated and their story isn't to thought out at the moment but they are roughly 300ish years after Twilight Princess and their game would use lots of ancient Twili relics. It would also be the sort-of start to Calamity Ganon from BotW, like when he goes and turns into a malice blob. A cult would try to resurrect Ganondorf but he kills them before the ceremony is done so he never gets a body back and uses a twili relic to help keep his form. Link is a scavenger and Zelda is a giant study nerd, they are also friends who met for like a day when they were kids(like 10-11). Did you ever like go to the McDonald's play area when you were like 5 and meet a kid, play with them for an hour, become friends and be bff's or something then leave and never see them again. Yeah that's sorta what happened with them but they DID meet again! xD

Zelda was running from a seized castle with some knights but they died and Link found and saved her before she got killed too. The two reconnected and both made their way to the Sheikah observatory. (They are both 22-23 now btw)

But yeah that's sorta all I've got, also Impa has a sister named Sherry and she runs the Sheikah Observatory that Zelda stays at since Ganon took the castle and Link goes out to stop him. It would be like a two sided story if it were a game. Like you could play as Link and explore ruins and find Twili relics, AND play as Zelda who would clean the relics and defend the Observatory whilst keeping ganon at bay with her goddess powers. She can also take the relics and turn them into weapons to give to Link and make defenses for the Observatory.

Sorry for rambling! I just go a little overboard when thinking of lore stuff and this doesn't even go over probably half of what will be their lore. (*ﾟｰﾟ*)

This will probably not even be their final designs, as their story develops more I will probably tweak them a bit to help make it more cohesive.

(The urge to give EVERY Link a giant scarf now is so hard, I fallen to DEEP into the Warriors rabbit hole to ever climb out again.)

WWWWAH I LOVE THEM SO MUCH????

Really love the concept of the beginning of calamity ganon 👀 such a cool idea!

Link being a scavenger is so good, the mechanic of gathering items and giving them to zelda to make weapons is 10/10 💖

Also scarf wearing characters are GREAT, I love ur Link ! ALSO UR ZELDA DESIGN IS SO CUTEEEEE I love her 🥹💖 I love her wearing pants too, so good!!

Anyway tysm for sharing them with me, I love them and the whole concept around them! Really like the observatory idea and the twili relic mechanic! 🥹💖

[inspiteofganon]

I think ganondorf would be so confused by homophobia. like yeah obviously hes attracted to men. he took a course on wooing them. obviously hes attracted to women, why wouldnt he be women are great

The gerudo would not give less of a fuck about sexuality i think. i think the majority of them would be married to women and only seek out men to have children with

Oh yeah such a thing would definitely be nonsense to him, I think. Petty garbage for spoiled weaklings to fuss over. "Who cares if someone's attracted to the same sex? Every day my people struggle in the desert etc. etc. Hand Over The Triforce." sentiments.

Most of my headcanons about Gdorf and the gerudo only selectively factor in BotW/TotK-timeline things such as the dating classes, in preference for OoT-and-its divergents-inspired stuff and also "things my roommate says". I must confess I prefer them a bit more on the chauvinistic side... consistent, feisty, and proud... i.e. "everybody keep out" > "men keep out, women/agenders are fine". Why make exceptions for some hylians but not others?? Girl, the imperialists...!

I definitely agree they don't really "give a fuck" about sexuality. Maybe only a sliver depending on context. It's not really relevant to most of them unless they wanna start a family or fall in love. Being a 100% straight gerudo must kinda suck though since your only options are either hitting up Ganondorf (if there's even a gerudo king at home at the moment) or learning how to woo some outsider voe... or transmasc gerudo, if you think they'd have enough of those in the open. I like the idea of there being a lot of lesbian and bi gerudo... I want to see a gay gerudo wedding... they're socially monogender except for the times they have a king, so social sexuality really isn't something I think they'd really think seriously about except for the aforementioned reasons. Just more garbage that the peoples they steal from waste time on! Lame. Even the "vai" others have are so socially different despite physical similarities that they just don't vibe the same as other gerudo.

As for Ganondorf and his own Gay Thoughts... man, where to even start with what I have in mind for that guy. Besides the fact that he can't be normal about anything ever.

If vai take lessons on how to romance and woo voe, Ganondorf I think would at least know how that works. He has to know how the things his subjects consider important work-- how else are they going to respect him?! To hylians, I think, getting to know him long enough he'd start to come off as a guy with an unusually deep knowledge of what most might call "women's business". Up to and including him knowing how to go about getting a boyfriend if he really wanted to. But back to GAYNESS... I think it'd be complicated for him. Because Ganondorf is a very superior man who thinks little of everyone else, especially if they're not gerudo. So if one approached the topic of his orientation-- assuming his response wasn't just "who cares? not me"-- he might not be able to give you a straight (lol) answer on the sole basis that there aren't any other males of his own kind to measure his reactions with, and that he looks down too much on other peoples for him to think they truly count.

But on the FLIP side of that!! Other men could be, for lack of a better word, a "safe space" to play with his own sexuality, since them being of so little matter makes them more approachable in that sense. Goodness knows he's up to his eyeballs in women at home, but men? They're novel, they're disgusting but mandatory to his people (though they insist he's the one good one! they swear!!), and like it or not, the common voe outside Gerudo Valley are lumped into the same category that he is by most. They're so like him, but so not. They don't have the same expectations he has on his shoulders. Perhaps a part of him might envy their freedom and camaraderie... and enjoy intimidating them as a result, and thinking something like "Wow, you're nearly the kind of gender I am... heheh..." while watching them squirm in his presence. What passes for a man in Hyrule is different from what he's been raised to be...

So yeah in my opinion he's DEFINITELY got some gay potential boiling under the lid. He's not gonna think about it or act on it in a sane or healthy way though.

[blue-likethebird]

Something I find irritating about the minor resurgence in discourse about totk's story and its ideological standings is the argument that Zelda games have always had uncompromising black and white morality, so any criticism of Hyrule/Rauru/Sonia is inherently futile.

That's not entirely correct. It's true that Zelda games have fairly obvious good guys and bad guys, but plenty of Zelda games have touched on the flaws of Hyrule's monarchy. For example, there's the Shadow temple and bottom of the well from OoT, the twilight realm from TP, BotW's pre-calamity flashbacks, basically all of windwaker's final act, etc. Even Skyward Sword -and as much as I love that game it does have some unfortunate 'divine right of kings' implications to it- is more critical of Hylia's plan and the effect it has on the people involved than anything totk's cast can muster up about Rauru. Zelda games having simple stories that their intended audience can grasp doesn't mean that they haven't at least attempted to touch on more complicated moral questions in the past.

I can't speak for everyone but I and most other people I see in the totk critical tags don't mean I want this children's game to provide a definitive critique of divinely-ordained monarchy when I discuss Ganondorf's complete lack of motivations or the story's refusal to question Rauru's leadership the way previous games questioned Rhoam, Daphnes, or Hylia. I know Nintendo aren't gonna bother fitting a scholarly review of fantasy imperialism between the archery and bowling minigames, but I'd be more willing to accept that if they would at least give the central narrative a shred of nuance or staying power in return.

[wutheringmights]

Chapter 27: The Holy Lament & The Good Night Rating: Mature Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death Additional Tags: Linked Universe (Legend of Zelda), Alternate Universe, Character Study, War, world building, Trauma, Alcohol Abuse/Alcoholism, Political Intrigue, Found Family, Angst and Humor, Warriors is a very complicated person, Warriors also does not know Time is Mask, Warriors (Linked Universe)-centric, Canon-Typical Violence, Heavy Angst, Manipulation, Morally Ambiguous Character, Please read content warnings before each chapter, Abuse, Emotional/Psychological Abuse, Physical Abuse, Implied Sexual Content, Power Imbalance, Implied/Referenced Torture, Blood and Injury, Disabled Character, Dead Dove: Do Not Eat Summary: “You are going to hear a lot of terrible things about me. Most of it is going to be true.” Being the hero who saved Hyrule from a bloody war was a thankless job that left Warriors with more regrets than he cared to remember. He only started to heal after meeting his fellow heroes from across time and joining them on their quest to defeat the black-blooded monsters. But when his time-hopping journey takes him back home, he finds his kingdom on the brink of war once more. This war threatens to ensnare not only Warriors, but his newfound family as well. Warriors will do whatever it takes to keep them safe, even if that means becoming a traitor to the kingdom he gave up everything to save. But the harder Warriors works to protect his family, the more the secrets of his dark past come to life. Who is Captain Link Walton, the Hero of Warriors? What happened to the two other heroes he had once fought alongside all those years ago? When this is over, will Warriors even have a family left to save or is he doomed to repeat his past mistakes? (Once, there were three brothers: the captain, the engineer, and the child. Their story did not have a happy ending.)

If I didn't force myself to post this now, I don't think I ever will. I have not been so nervous about a chapter in a very long time.

Does that bode well for me? No. But I will march on nonetheless. Insert joke about this chapter is already over half a million words long and all the rights it gives me to do whatever the hell I want at this point.

In this chapter of--and I cannot stress this enough--my incredibly niche fanfiction:

Link has a fun night out on what is totally not the Hylian equivalent of Halloween

Ganondorf is here, and you know what that means! Keeping Up With the Harkinians is back!

And... uh... what I can only describe as the stupidest decision I have ever made (yay)

>> Read it here >>

[lace4forest]

The Legend of Zelda Forgotten Songs

We've recently been drawing on Stream, so we ended up making a Legend of Zelda AU. (I'll post the stream vods on my channel later)

Basically Din and Farore decide to mess with Nayru, and shuffled the Triforce pieces.

Anyway! Zelda, the Hero of Songs, needs to search for the Forgotten Songs lost to Hyrule, to bring light back to the Kingdom. She teams up with Link the bard and the two travel together. The Scholar King Ganondorf of the Gorudo is trying to take over the Kingdom of Hyrule and bring silence and darkness to keep the Kingdom under his control.

The Nicknames Zelda - Song (Songs) Link - Lute Ganondorf - Cacophony

Rabbit hole time!

Zelda is the Hero of Songs. She has the Hero's Spirit, and was given the Triforce of Courage!

Zelda is a menace to society. Yes. She fights in this dress, and she is GOOD AT IT. Her "Roll" is a little jump and spin. She also is a very physical character, she doesn't use a lot of magic Items, and don't let her looking frail fool you, she is very strong. (Yes Zelda has the Master Sword)

Link has been nicknamed Lute. He isn't fully Hylian, he is only half! The other half is Siren! He is a Bard. He also has the Triforce of Power! (Think of Zelda 2 btw) So the Northern Palace? Everyone remember that place? Yeah, Link's house is on the beach north of there, he has a cute little beach house, and also has an under water one (Because Siren/mer fun stuff)

Now Link here is a little Uncanny, right? Well, literally EVERYONE in town think's that. That's why he lives out by himself on the beach. He does go into town and play music for money, and he's really good! (Because Siren) and people ALWAYS PAY HIM- (Because SIREN) He doesn't do anything bad tbh. Lastly, Link uses the magic Items here, he is also holding onto the Interments and sheet music they get from the Dungeons! (Looking for the Forgotten Songs of old to save Hyrule)

Now, Link and Zelda are besties, Zelda was traveling past his house, and she just wanted to see who lived there, met Link, liked his weird vibes (Literally all her guards were like NOOOOO SIREN BOY- But Zelda doesn't know) Also, Zelda gave Link Anxiety. (Zelda "No Fear" Hero of Songs traveling with the Siren Bard Link the Lute player)

OH! One last thing, Zelda doesn't know Link is half Siren. She just knows he has funky vibes and she likes the funky vibes. Someone (Villager) will be like "That is a Monster" and Zelda will be like "THAT IS MY BEST FRIEND" (Holds Link's face) "NOW SAY SORRY TO HIM" Villager - "....sorry" Zelda doesn't care.

(another link thing, sorry, that hair? that short hair? Yeah, No. That's an under cut, he has long hair, its just brained and stuffed into the hat)

LASTLY we have Ganondorf! He is cousins with Zelda, and he holds the Triforce of Wisdom! Ganondorf want's to take Hyrule, and he knows he is right behind Zelda for the throne, so all he needs to do is Kill Zelda! (He tried to just hire a guy to shoot her with a cross bow, the guy shot, Zelda cause the arrow, AND THREW IT BACK- NO BOW- and Killed that man.) Ganondorf had to think a little outside the box. His list of Priorities goes 1) Kill Zelda, 2) Kill Link and 3) Take over Hyrule.

Now, Ganondorf here is SMART. (Nicknamed Cacophony) Ganondorf and Zelda are Cousins, and they are pretty close. Their relationship is VERY complicated. Like - Someone talking crap about Zelda in front of Ganondorf "HOW DARE YOU SAY THOSE THINGS!" Person - "That is your Mortal Enemy!" Ganon - "THAT IS MY COUSIN!" (Zelda does the same thing)

Link and Ganondorf also have a complex relationship, they have an emotional support group for talking about the crazy things Zelda did and the two just need a moment to reassure they are normal and it's just Zelda being weird.

Also Ganondorf is a magic user in this AU. He tries to outsmart his opponents when need be. And in this game he is fighting Zelda and Link, who share a single braincell. (I love those two so much oh my gosh XD)

The Dungeon's in the game would be actually kinda hard, relying on your ability to remember things and a LOT of Puzzles. The beginning you can just switch between Link and Zelda to figure stuff out, one being in another room and yelling the answers to the other type of thing. But as the game goes on (After Dungeon 3) Link will become unable to get into the Dungeon without Zelda finding the Interment inside and summoning him inside. (There will also be a Dungeon where you do mainly play as Link in, it's the water temple.)

Now, Dungeon's 1 through 6 you can get Link inside to help, but less and less. By Dungeon 7 Link is unable to be summoned inside. Again, you would need the Dungeon Item to summon Link, BUT Ganondorf is SMART. He figured this out, and went and TOOK THE ITEMS OUT- They are now in other Dungeons (You may find 2 Items inside one dungeon) You might need to return to a Dungeon for a Door you were unable to unlock with a new Item/song/sheet music.

But During Dungeon 7, when Zelda leaves she can tell a fight happened, the area is destroyed, and Link is nowhere to be seen. Ganondorf and his men ambushed Link, and Kidnapped him. (Along with all your stuff.) Zelda heads to Dungeon 8, learning that Link is somewhere inside.

(Our reasoning on why Link get's Kidnapped- "WELL ZELDA GETS KIDNAPPED ALL THE TIME! IT'S LINK'S TURN!")

Now Dungeon 8. Ganondorf is Smart. Zelda and Link Share a SINGLE Braincell. Each room is one of three things. 1) A previous Mini Boss (Link Dungeon 8(?) in Link's Awakening) 2) A Puzzle to get a key or something (Normal Dungeon stuff) OR 3) A Puzzle from a previous Dungeon, but the hint isn't in the Dungeon and Link isn't here to yell the answers for you.

So you will have to do one of three things for those rooms, Look up a guide online, Have a good memory and know what to do, Or go back to the Dungeon it was in, and write it down.

But if you leave you'll have to restart/run through the Dungeon again! AND THIS ONE DOESN'T HAVE A MAP- HAHAHA-

WELCOME TO DUNGEON 8 HELL.

We wanted to create the hardest/funnest Dungeon. (Ganondorf is SMART, HE WANT'S ZELDA DEAD.)

Also, Ganondorf convinces the King to send Gaurds after Zelda and Link. (Kinda like Lttp, but instead of "YOU KIDNAPPED THE PRINCESS" It's more like "Zelda Please, You Need To Come Home!" and Zelda is like "GANONDORF IS EVIL" "No HE ISN'T!" "HIS VIBES ARE RANK!")

I might draw some short comics of them later tbh! (I think it's fun to make stories with everyone on stream, it was good, 10/10 will draw on stream again XD)

If you have any questions, just ask.

[skyloftian-nutcase]

Lovelies, I really am sorry, these blorbos still have me in a freaking chokehold...

Despite the chaos of the battle, something distinct caught Ganondorf’s attention. In a sea of red hair and brown skin paired with leather and steel, in a sea of armor and white banners, there was light gold, like the pale yellow chrysanthemums Orik had gifted to Hemisi.

Orik. Link.

Link was here.

Damn that child. He’d told him to stay away. He knew the boy hadn’t listened, but to have the audacity to fight where Ganondorf himself was…

Well, he had to admit the boy had far more gumption to him than he’d realized. It was no wonder Hemisi had fallen for him. Ganondorf caught the attention of his commander. “Bring Link to me. Alive.”

[ganondoodle]

hello, post sleep clarity ganon here

i also dont mean to make demise into uwu soft bean who has done no wrong either- but i want to give him more character than he gets in canon (which isnt really ... anything) which was my main motivation from the start (aside from the spite i felt after seeing hylias design in some of those mangas) bc i like to ask the question "what would need to happen to bring a character to this point" and "maybe what you are told by the only as true and good portrayed people isnt the truth"

and in general im not a fan of a villain being a villain bc "evil" and that being the only explanation you are supposed to need, give me a reason to hate them otherwise i will always ask "why", and if you only ever TELL me that hes done evil stuff without ever showing it? .. well here i am asking "why?"

like at the start of skyward sword they tell you how some evil monster army showed up from ... out of the earth and threatened the perfect peace and everything and i cant help but ask "ok but is this actually true though?" you never get to see it and are just told about it, and why does the evil guy hate the gods, want the triforce (which is a thing of .. the gods?) and to cloak this world in darkness? you dont hate someone for no reason? or at least i think its pretty boring in a story

the whole idea for all the worldbuilding and story of my comic is .. what if demise is a deity just like hylia but fallen from grace? what if the gods had been wanting the story of skyward sword to play out before but their toys failed to play their part? what if the reason he hates the gods is bc they made his own world die a slow and agonizing death and made him watch it bc he failed to play the part the gods wanted him to play, all while knowing and trying to surpress the knowledge that it wasnt JUST them but also himself killing his home in an effort to protect it, now being once again played with but in a new world that was allowed to live while his own died, and he is the monster now, but unlike himself, hylia immediately sees something is off about how the gods had told her things would go and the reality of it- and it all spirals into a desperate struggle against forces hard to even comprehend that ultimately fails AND from that paints the entirety of skyward sword into a completely different context-

... sorry i didnt mean to ramble, im not trying to justify my writing, but its been a while since i talked about the premise of the story in itself so im not gonna delete this part even if its gone off the rails a little

(also this is unconnected to any fandom discussion, it came up randomly when i was talking to a friend yesterday and only later saw that other people had talked about sth similar right then too.. )

utterly random late night panic thoughts but

if you read my zelda comic and like it i love and appreciate you but i really do need to be upfront about it being very much a self indulgent enemies to lovers story with a villain at the center that has done bad but isnt bad at his core and is struggeling to come to terms with the fact that he doesnt actually want to be the evil beast he and almost everyone else believes he should be

yes im one of those people ... fake villain fans or something ... i think .. i dont know the rules to that ... q-q

[rawliverandgoronspice]

sorry I'm having late night majora's mask thoughts and they might be half thoughts and not super coherent, but... the fact that link learns the song of healing from the happy mask salesman from an organ...... like... I don't know, I'm wondering how that fits into this whole healing thing, since what he heard from an organ last time was basically the source of all his trauma, now becoming the first anchor to help people moving on (starting with himself)

I don't know, it's also the thing about koume and kotake being basically kind swamp grandmas in this one despite the gerudos being pretty much still gerudos (even arguably crueler) otherwise...

like I don't know if that's anything, but I'm wondering how his time in Termina helps Link process This Gigantic Part of his trauma, and how that ties up with Skull Kid and Majora (and the moon itself, awful and horrendous and destructive from outside then incredibly calm and beautiful and childlike within)... and what he gets out of this and reapplies to Hyrule later, especially given we're in the backstory of Twilight Princess and we all know how that goes!!!

I don't know, I always felt like Ganondorf (and Zelda, and any of the major NPCs) just not being present in the game (Zelda memories/fisherman situation not accounted for) was actually a pretty potent choice, because these characters are everywhere but in a distilled form; and I think Ganondorf especially (given he's the reason Link is not doing fine in the first place) exists in the moon, the Mask, Skull Kid, Ikana...

But also it's a game with such tenderness for the monsters (the re-deads dance when nobody is looking, the mummy is a loving father that his daughter tries to protect from you, the dekus are fully fledged people...), and it's a game that rejects evil as a fixed characteristic safe for the corrupting object (AND EVEN THEN you get the moon's insides where every boss becomes a literal child), so I can't help but wonder how Link's little brain is processing this whole mess on uhhh This Side of the equation

(I'm taking on the metaphor angle, I'm not onboard for the "it's all a dream" game theory sides of things, I think it can both happen for real and be a metaphor at the same time, to clarify, and I think it's the most interesting setup narratively so vOv)

[tyrantisterror]

Who is your favorite Nintendo villain (Bowser, Ganondorf, Dedede, Ridley, King K. Krool, etc.) and why?

I feel like the snarky "aren't I clever?" answer would be to say Edelgard from Fire Emblem Three Houses, because that's a Nintendo game from a Nintendo franchise, and while Edelgard is more morally complicated than the "villain" label would suggest, she nonetheless is designed to be villain-coded both in general and by the very specific tropes and archetypes that Fire Emblem itself has developed. And since Edelgard is one of my favorite character of all time AND plays with the concept of villainy in so many different ways depending on all the different routes you can take in the game, she'd be my favorite villain character from a Nintendo franchise - because my favorite villains are the ones who take the coding of villains in culture and make you question what truly makes one villainous.

But I'm going to assume the intent of this question is, like, less obscure villains, villains who'd appear in Nintendo branding. Smash Bros and Mario Cart villains, right?

In which case my answer would be Bowser. I love how he evolved from a very simple and basic villain concept - big fire-breathing dragon who steals a princess - into something a lot weirder and more specific, both in appearance and especially personality. Bowser is one of my favorite examples of a villain from children's media and specifically a recurring villain from children's media, because like the best villains of that specific subsection of culture, he's ultimately less a true evil doer and more a metaphor for a temperamental and antisocial kid on the playground. He's selfish and throws tantrums and acts rude, but he's not genuinely wicked - he is, in his own misguided way, seeking out a social connection with others. There's something deeply pitiable and even lovable about Bowser - we all have our days where we want to stamp our feet and shoot fire out our mouth in frustration, or wish we could just tell everyone to fuck off as we take what we want. We shouldn't, of course, but we all feel that way, and Bowser shows us both why we shouldn't and, more importantly, why having those monster-moments doesn't mean we're beyond turning over a new leaf.

Because yeah, Bowser may be a jerk who causes problems on purpose, but no one really hates him. Mario and the gang still invite him to play board games and participate in their go-kart races. He is, in a weird way, as much their friend as their enemy, and that's wonderful. And, in its own very simple way, this makes you ask the question: what truly makes someone villainous? Because if the big fire-breathing princess-kidnapping monster can have a good guy deep down beneath the scales and the bluster, then can we really write anyone off as just evil?

Also Bowser looks cool as hell.

[golvio]

So I've got...some complicated feelings about this. Some of them more analytical, some of them more personal. I get pretty long-winded when I think out loud about this guy, so I'm putting my thoughts behind a cut.

On the one hand, I definitely noticed that TotK's Ganondorf was more preoccupied with his appearance, not necessarily in a stereotypical "vain villain who never shuts up about how beautiful they are" or a "gym bro who spends more time checking himself out in the mirror than actually working out" sense, but in a "he's very conscious about the image he projects and wants to maintain careful control of how other people see him at all times" way. I'm glad I've got confirmation that I wasn't just seeing things. Also, that TotK discusses how he uses attractiveness to manipulate people, as implied with how he portrayed "Princess Zelda," had some really interesting implications about his life as the Gerudo king and his personality and skills in reading people that Nintendo never followed up on, because god forbid we give this character any recognizable traits that could inspire curiosity about who he is as a person or discussions about gender roles in ways that aren't "He pretends to be a cute little white girl because he's an Evil Degenerate."

On the other hand...it kind of contributes to the way I've been weirded out by how the game itself treated him and how certain fans treat him. The game itself made a lot of effort to dehumanize and un-person this man as a character even while making his human form visually appealing. The fans themselves are celebrating this a validation of their seeing him as a sex symbol, calling him "a bi icon" because both men and women are attracted to him, etc.

Like...there's all this discussion about Ganon's appearance and how sexy people find him, but not much consideration of what *he* might want, or how he feels, or what he's attracted to. I know that's kind of a goofy question to ask about a fictional character who can't really have opinions on things beyond what the writers give him, but...it's just kind of...objectifying?

For example, I don't take any issue with headcanons that Ganon might be bisexual, or at least enjoys the attention he gets from people of any gender, since I've got my own headcanons about him being queer, but I do get weirded out by the assumption that just because both men and women find him attractive that means he *must* reciprocate their desires and be bisexual. It's the same thing that weirds me out about fan art pre-release that portrayed him as this airheaded himbo jock because fans wanted to ogle his sexy body without having to deal with his intelligence, his anger, his negative qualities, or his potential dangerousness.

There's this tendency to objectify him in both the game, whether as a "monster" to slay to prove the player/Link's mettle as a hero, or as a trophy to symbolize Rauru's dominon over the frontier territories of his kingdom. And then there's a tendency to objectify him in fandom, presenting him as a pinup devoid of his original personality, or trying to shape him into a "good Ganondorf" that the fans would actually like to be friends with by sanding off all his sharp edges so they can access his body, which they find beautiful, without having to deal with the parts that might complicate that or that they'd dislike.

Fandom as a whole seems to have a blind spot when it comes to the objectification of masculine characters, particularly because it's like, "Oh, BOYS can't be objectified! Only pretty (white) ladies can get objectified!" Nevermind that objectification is a phenomenon that's super commonly done to nonwhite men in tandem with the more overt and violent dehumanization that comes with racism, especially men with darker skin. And there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in exploring what that might mean for Ganondorf as a character, whether just as discussing double-consciousnesses and exploiting expectations to manipulate people, or to explore how being treated like a piece of meat or a pretty ornament who exists only for other people's pleasure can really warp a person.

I guess...this is something I've been thinking about since playing Slay the Princess, which asks a lot of questions about objectification, how people's complexity can be dismissed and ignored when they're shoved into the Love Interest archetype, and how being limited in this way in the eyes of others can seriously hurt and warp someone even if it's being done in the "nicest," most paternalistic and "benevolent" way possible. It presents the core relationship as being a fundamentally unequal power balance; no matter how fearsome and terrifying the imprisoned party becomes, she is always at your mercy, she lives and dies based on the choices you make, and the "nicer" routes are potentially just her saying what she knows you want to hear and auditioning for your sympathy because like it or not you're her warden. It also forces you to ask yourself what makes you come to love somebody, and to consider the possibility of loving somebody while also acknowledging their thorny, messy, contradictory, and dangerous parts. I wish I could see more works considering this for Ganon, as opposed to regurgitating tired old "Destroy This Mad Brute" tropes or turning him into a "safe," palatable, easy-to-digest love interest.

[the0maski]

Little thoughts and feelings about Update Dawn part 9| part 1

Malo Mart mentioned!!!

Twilight Princess: In game Link can’t afford anything in Malo Mart Castle Branch, right?

Since I haven’t played TP, does the one in Kakariko Village closed once the one in Castle Town open?

Oh Four what are you doing to your poor grandpa! He will be so grounded the moment the chain visits his time. But I don’t think his old man will be to harsh to him

In the beginning of Minish Cap, Smith tells Zelda that Link had helped him at the forge the whole night and that’s the reason he slept in. MC Link does his chores like the good grandkid he is!

Sky…I don’t remember Skyloft having a Postal Service…? And the Surface doesn’t have one yet…so unless a blue or red loftwing shows up I doubt Sky gets a letter…

I have no doubt that the range is safe, but I have a theory of why Time is still tense about everything.

It’s clear that Time didn’t like the stand Twilight pulled to get to The Shadow. Not like Warriors, who was mad, because it complicated their work together, but because Twilight really doesn’t know when to quit! (Similar mentality to Hyrule)

Yet Time seams to know the consequences first hand, seeing how he says: »But I saw something I knew I couldn’t stop. That pure determined courage.« later he adds »That choice alone could have claimed your life. Don’t push yourself like that.

Sadly Oot Link is one of the more stoic 3D Link so I couldn’t say if this could be a reference to the game, but I’m sure it kinda is.

1. Theory: The final battle against Ganondorf/ Ganon

Maybe Time was remembered how he felt and acted against Ganondorf. Since Jojo takes more out of the games implied lore for her comics, it can also be a subtle hint to the downfall timeline. The Hero (Oot Link) dies in his final battle against Ganon, which leads to seven sages sealing the evil king inside the sacred realm.

Is not clear how the Hero dies, but if this is a subtle hint, than Time saw and experienced, technical, his own death in that fight.

2. Theory: Fierce Deity and how Time lost his eye

Little is known about the Fierce Deity in LU canon, but going from the little we know the Fierce Deity is their own soul inside the mask. Time said, »I have Items that could drive a man mad.«

Maybe the "pure determined courage" lead to him getting over powered by the mask dark powers, following him losing an eye. Not sure if the mask had a direct impact on Time losing his eye, or if it was caused by an enemy he couldn’t avoid in time.

Time also didn’t fear Majora’s Mask, just saying that » I‘d be far more afraid of what destroyed the demon.« while looking into Majora’s eyes as the Fierce Deity. There is no fear of the mask he has. However, there is to little evidence for any of this as well.

Putting it lightly? Sir, you quite literally death glared your descendent into quitting being stubborn! If Twi wasn’t mortally wounded, Time would have yeeted him to the inn, no question asked.

Not sure if the game touched the subject or if I’m projecting, but since Oot Link got a lot of bullying from Mido and other, I always imagined him with a quick temper and bad emotion control. Time could be the same, yet since he is older he keeps himself in check.

More on part 2

[thunderpetal]

So, I love hearing about why favorites are favorites! Why are Wind and Time your die-for favs?

THANK you for the ask <3

For Wind, I think I first played Wind Waker exactly when I joined the LU fandom properly, and oh my god, I LOVE Wind Waker. It genuinely had such a big impact on me on the first playthrough (and does to this day), and I was still going through all the emotions when I was reading LU and starting to engage with the fandom.

Wind has such a good story in Wind Waker, and I could write an essay about it tbh but I'll save it for another time. I also absolutely adore how he is written in the comic; I think it's perfect. He has the immaturity you'd expect from a 13 year old boy, such as not always being the most tactful, jumping straight into situations without Fully considering them, and having some quite strong almost black-and-white opinions on complicated topics (see the Kings of Hyrule comic). But you can also leverage all of those criticisms at the other boys who are supposedly older and wiser than Wind LOL. What makes him great is how his younger age and strong personality also give him a completely different point of view. Despite having gone through a certain amount of shit on his journeys, he's still optimistic and hopeful for the future and he's fiercely passionate in protecting those he loves... What can I say. He's just a good lad. I honesty feel this messy collection of words doesn't even do him justice.

As for Time, it's sort of opposite reasons? The story of his games and his outlook on life is a bit darker than Wind's. Time has been through so much, and was a broken man for a while... and yet he is the one who has the happily married, domestic life a lot of the boys deep down want. He made it! And it's just so wonderful to see a character like that, one hardened by his experiences but still able to get a happy ending.

And yet. The potential to angst him is still tremendous. We have the Hero's Shade, which many speculate could mean he dies when the kid(s) he has with Malon are still very young. There's the Fierce Deity Mask. The Ocarina of Time. His negative opinions about the Master Sword and the bitterness he's still holding onto. Not to mention all the stuff he went through in the past and has recovered from but you could still explore... Even though Time has this happy life now, he's still such a great complex character to break into. God writing this just reminded me of the massive Time Analysis Glau (Glaucus_Atlanticus) wrote. I don't know where to find it anymore though :(

One last thing as well is that Time and Wind's interactions are also great. I think Time sees a lot of himself in Wind; Wind was forced to defeat Ganondorf young, just like him. But UNLIKE him, Wind hasn't lost everything. He didn't lose his childhood, he has a family, he doesn't have to say goodbye to his home forever. And Wind is obviously doing a lot better in many ways than Time probably was aged 12/13, which is pretty self-explanatory as to why (TERMINA). And seeing that makes Time very happy, it's clear from the way Time interacts with Wind in the comic. But there is still angst potential with Time being the hero who 'abandoned' Wind's world... it's good shit!

To cut a long story shit they're both great and I need to write more fics of them both.