#going on 12 years of this parasocial relationship and here is to many more

[weak-aesthetic]

happy 41st birthday to the love of my life, andrew russell garfield 🩷✨

[notafunkiller]

I’m going to start a lot of trouble by saying this and I don’t care: There is something with stringy blonde hair and dead eyes that has been the cause of this exhaustion over the past two years. And tbh, he won’t look well rested or healthy again until he finds the courage and the self respect to kick it to the curb.

First of all, I want to say: feel free to express your opinions openly here, as I value and respect freedom of speech.

[Of course, as long as there are no threats... which is not the case now]

Second of all, there is something that stans do in most fandoms: they infantilize their favorite celebrities and act as if they are perfect. They project their dreams and wishes onto them (and their relationships sometimes) and they think they have the right to decide and know details about their private life.

They think sending letters and endless dms = normal. It's not.

[When a celebrity needs to block you because you are attacking their partner, you have a problem.]

They view those people as puppets. As if they have the right to know everything about them and be upset if they make their own decisions. If they disagree with their decisions, they treat them like kids (aka they're in denial) or get mad and so on...

[From roles and haircuts to personal life and vacations.]

Also, they think fans (not stans) who hold them accountable for mistakes or point out the obvious things (like PR, image strategies, paps walks) are haters.

Thirdly, Sebastian is an adult, who makes his own decisions, but the stans act as if he's a kid.

I totally love what you said: he won't look well rested or healthy again until he finds the courage and the self respect...

I pointed out he's been tired constantly for the last 2 years, and some stans made it sound as if I was hating on him and AW because I am jealous of her and I have some kind of obsession/parasocial relationship with him, when it's, indeed, just concern. Because he is pushing himself basically non-stop.

Like, it's his choice to do PR... (it's my opinion which can be wrong, ofc) since he's always been so warm -and his love language is touch- in his previous relationships even if they were private... and there is something off about his body language in general. And AW is known as a beard in Hollywood, which I don't judge. People do what they want...

And I don't feel sorry for him. I'm just worried he focuses too much on achieving things and he doesn't take care of himself and rest enough.

He wanted to have more power over his projects aka to produce (producing = freedom and control), so he agreed to sign with CAA (Creative Artists Agency).

Because even though he's American too, not just Romanian (he moved there when he was 12), he's still seen as a foreigner by the film industry.

It means Sebastian believes he still needs to prove himself to get awards. And getting an award is even harder in this case because no matter how much PR you do, how many paps walks you have, how hard working you are, how great you are at what you do, how much passion you put into your work and your roles, you're still (seen as) an outsider. I think this is why he chose to be a part of so many biopics.

[Don't get me wrong, I think the roles he chose and chooses are challenging (grey, with personality) and send a message in general. He always gets out of his comfort zone, which is incredible. But I feel like he driven by the urge to prove himself]

This is why I think the Silver Bear meant and means the world to him. And I wish he knew an Oscar wouldn't say anything about him as an actor... about his talent. Many incredible actors do not have one, and we know it's about politics there.

I recommend a good article on the subject:

[theoddest1]

i fear viv is like j*k*r -

there is evidence, proof, so so much of it. and even then, just her behavior alone, without the really bad stuff, is questionable to say the least. i dont know how to put it, but she and her fans act like 12 year olds on wattpad (i used to be one of those kids to some extent ik what im talking about here lmfao). it is a FACT she's horrible and disgusting (i could list a thousand other things here but the critical community already knows all this) and still people defend and dickride her. it is no lie that her fanbase is like a cult. i wonder if these people are actually completely oblivious or are just as horrid because the fact she's a horrible person is as clear as day. the fetish shit, her weird ass transphobia, her blatant disgregard to actual victims that aren't her fans, her drawing... that , her racism, her- should i go on? and i fear there is no consequences for BOTH these people- they will go on until they die without ever facing their actions and stuff. its disturbing.

its like j*k*r all over again. i sense a pattern here. not sure what kind, but its so fucking baffling how both are horrid and insufferable AS CLEAR AS DAY as people and HARM OTHERS and still get so much support. both need to be studied because what the fuck have they going on that protects them meanwhile some people on social media get cancelled for one sentence they said 17 years ago (not that that's not "valid" it's just baffling how some people get cancelled over the smallest shit meanwhile....) and these people get to enjoy their life without consequences while there's MOUNTAINS of proven evidence.

i feel like i discovered a goddamn alien baby the way im so fucking flabbergasted at all this.

anyways, sorry for the rant.

i hope you have a nice day/evening/morning/night!

Hey, no worries! Rant away! It's a very strange enigma for sure, and the fandon does indeed act like a cult! My guess for how Viv keeps getting away with all this stuff is that she has a parasocial relationship with her fanbase. The idea of landing a job or getting close with a creator with such a large following overrides any sense of reason or care for her actions, so people keep gassing her up because it could likely lead her to like or comment on their stuff. There's also the pseudo kind act she puts on, so people think she's the sweetest person ever when she has showcased the opposite. There's also a loooot of fandom bullying. Lots of the big dogs in the fandom bully people into silence or make em think they're in the wrong.

There's a WHOLE lot of control going on here, and thanks to her ass kissers logic is thrown out the window. Finally, there were the overblown posts highlighting things that, while weird or gross, aren't "cancelable" enough or downright exaggerations of the truth or lies. These threads on Twitter, especially back in 2019, did more harm than good and led many into believing there was a mob that simply wanted to cancel her for being popular. The threads consisted of her old cringe art (some are very questionable don't get me wrong) rather than the ones where she encouraged fandom bullying and made fun of a 15 year old fan for simply being critical of her work and called them nasty for it. No one did any research on her behavior or how she was an absolute bully to people like Starvader. Callouts need to consist of hard evidence so stuff like this doesn't happen, where your callout does more harm than good.

These factors led to many straight up turning off their brains and blatantly ignoring hard evidence. It's very, very stupid.

Also, who is the other person you mentioned? The only one that comes to mind is the guy who plays League of Legends and is famous for winning many championships.

[junkartie]

I'm hearing 2 opinions on Erdogan and idk I wanted to ask you bcs I got both of them from non-natives. So the first says that he IS a good president, there is just too many outside factors trying to bring him down. And the second told me that he WAS a good a help for the country until he decided to care about some other things (colonisation ?) which eventually led to the current downfall. Maybe both are right or both are wrong, what do you think?

(can you tell I love political discussions because I don't I'm just really invested cause you're one of my fav blogs hehe)

Non natives love to defend Erdo which is why us Turks have a whole term for them. Most of it however DOES stem from the second option being true.

Erdogan was in fact a very good leader in his first few years of power, now my family personally never liked him, he technically was in power on the sidelines for 10 years until he became president 10 yrs go. He did many things like make hospitals and healthcare way more accessible, fixed a lot of roads and built bridges etc. Now you may go “jay, isnt that what a normal president is supposed to do ?” Well, yes. But the guy before him didnt do a whole lot, so him doing his literal job was enough to convince people he was good enough to keep around.

As time went on he started to take a way harsher approach. Slowly but surely the price and tax on everything went up. Religion started to be the hottest topic in turkey despite us being a secular country on paper.Slowly festivals became too loud, protests were bothersome, pride parades were sinful, gays werent considered people, music after 12 wasnt allowed, Eurovision was something too embarrassing for our country to take place in, alcohol was a luxury that only the desperate & sinful tried to buy, women were not obedient enough, the legal age to get married was too high, sex before marriage became a big topic, rapists and murderers would walk freely, femicide got to a brand new high and a whole lot more.

This all happened slowly and gradually. By the time we thought to speak up on any of this the i-don’t-even know, 60% yearly inflation rate had worn us down. A dollar was no longer 2.5 TL, it was close to 25. Nothing could be bought with minimum wage. Whatever you bought, you bought a second one for the govt in tax (a phone here costs twice the price of one in america). People who vote for him mostly do so because all media outlets are heavily censored and totally in his favor. He has control of literally everything. Literally!! He hosted a referendum where he legally was given so much power that he can change whatever he wants on a whim. He will confidently lie out of his teeth and tell his supporters that the reason everything is so expensive is because of his opposition (who have virtually no power) + its fine because even if we’re poor we’re closer to god and his supporters eat it up because they have some fucked up parasocial relationship with him.

Right now we’re screwed beyond belief. The election was rigged in his favor but despite everything he either wasnt able to end it on the first round or intentionally didnt so he could win by a higher margin on the next round. The house is fucked, the opposition lost a ton of seats to highly religious islamic fanatics who straight up advocate for sharia law. That and the president literally had an alliance with a terrorist organization who want 15 year olds to get married, theyre also in the house. Its great.

Now we wait for the 28th, but its going to take a miracle for Erdogan to lose. I have virtually 0 hope at this point. One thing is foreigners defending him, but any turk who does so deserve everything they get. I truly hope anyone who voted for him suffer a fate worse than death (at this rate, they will). It may sound harsh, but ive seen no one in power except for this absolute sorry of an excuse, cunt of a man. My teens and childhood was wasted away with terrorist attacks and a staged coup, along with a power hungry man who made every walking day of my life worse than what it could have been.

Basically, wish us the best of luck i guess lol.

[holyshit]

Care to spare some advice on how to not be so affected by things without stepping back from fandom for multiple years lmao? It seems like for so many people, the longer they have been here, the easier it is for them. For me it's the opposite. The longer I'm in fandom the sadder and more frustrated I get that hl's situations are what they are 12 years on. And then I get frustrated with people who act like where they're at now is no big deal or sooo much better than before. It's a cycle lol.

hmm, i think it's tough because a lot of the things that helped me are most easily achieved by distancing yourself because that's the easiest way to gain perspective about the situation. when you’re actively in it, it’s much harder to break out of patterns you’re accustomed to. but i think the main "lessons" i learned from being away were essentially:

1) recognizing my own powerlessness in their situation. being away made it especially clear that my presence in the fandom does not affect anything. i am not able to change anything about their situation. if i continued being in fandom for those 4-ish years that i was away from fandom, the situation would still be exactly the same as it is now for them. i cannot give up my own happiness for something i cannot change.

2) similarly, the need to dismantle the parasocial relationship i had with them. it’s one thing to feel compassion for human beings you don’t personally know- that is a wonderful trait and important for the world! but, it’s another thing to feel like you “owe” anything to a celebrity you do not know personally and who does not even know you exist. sometimes, when you’re in deep, it almost feels like you would be “failing” them by not being angry enough or invested enough. that’s where it gets unhealthy, because the relationship of a fan and a celebrity is one-sided, and therefore, again, it comes down to the fact that you can’t give up your own happiness for something you cannot control in the life of a celebrity you do not personally know. no one owes a celebrity they like their mental well-being, no matter how much you feel compassion for them.

3) the recognition that fandom is supposed to be fun. it’s obvious, but sometimes it becomes less clear the deeper you get that some of the things you think you’re doing for fun aren’t actually that fun to you anymore lol. obviously nearly any interest is gonna make you angry or sad occasionally (your sports team loses, your fave character gets killed off in your favourite show, etc), but if your resting state is anger or sadness, it’s maybe not in your best interest to continue, or you need to change the way you interact with said hobby. your hobby shouldn’t be making you miserable, as that is just gonna bleed into the rest of your life.

SO, for actual advice that doesn’t involve leaving for years:

taking short breaks! you don’t have to take years away to still give yourself some space from the fandom. it can be a day, a week, a month, or even just cutting down on the amount of time you spend on tumblr (or social media of choice) in general for a while without leaving completely. when i feel like something is getting me riled up a bit more than usual, i usually step away for even just a day, and even just that calms me down and gives me perspective. if you want to take a break but still want to know what’s going on, you can also just pick one or two blogs that you know don’t post much drama and solely pay attention to those blogs while you’re away.

enriching your other hobbies. take some of the time you would normally spend reading shit in this fandom, and use it to do something else you enjoy. the more time you spend “away”, even if you still are in the fandom, the less critically important everything will eventually feel in your brain and it will often be easier to detach emotionally. when you’re unhappy in other parts of your life, it’s much easier to let one thing ��take over”, and it’s important to make room for other things in your life.

if you feel like you need a hyperfixation of sorts, i’d say try out different fandoms. watch that show your friend told you they know you’ll love and then try to make a sideblog or something and join the fandom. join a fandom of a piece of media you already love but never was involved in fandom for. again, it can help you distance yourself emotionally a bit without leaving entirely

figure out what parts you ACTUALLY enjoy in this fandom, and figure out what parts you may think you enjoy but are actually making you more anxious/obsessive/angry/upset than anything. as a personal example, i used to be heavily into theorizing back in 2015-2016, especially during babygate. i would be obsessed with reading up on everyone’s theories about when babygate would end, how it might end, etc, and would spend a lot of time reading about it. i thought i enjoyed it at the time, but in reality it was more of an obsession that made me much more upset than i had to be. reading up on theories, getting my hopes up, and then have them not happening was miserable and not worth it and ultimately lead me to leave the fandom

similarly, try to break some of your fandom habits and see if you’re happier without them. as another personal example, i used to pay extreme attention to stunt stuff and wanted to be 100% caught up on everything at all times. as a byproduct of that, i would keep up with every post a couple blogs that talked about stunts would make. when i got super busy with a work project, it forced me to take a break from this because i didn’t have the time to keep up with everything, and breaking that habit of needing to know EVERYTHING and be totally caught up made me snap out of the habit and recognize i didn’t need that to enjoy my time in fandom, and in fact it took a weight off my shoulder and made me realize it wasn’t actually making me happy.

unfollow blogs that make you upset!!! even if you like the person, if they talk about things that get you riled up or upset often, it’s likely not worth it. if you hate-follow people to keep up with their opinions that piss you off, unfollow! if you’re stewing in anger all the time, it’s easier to stay unhealthily invested to your happiness’ detriment.

focus on things you CAN control. you can control your fandom experience. you can contribute to fan projects that make the fandom a better place and in some cases can positively contribute to l’s or h’s experiences (like the rainbow lights projects, for example). you can control how you interact with your fellow fans. don’t give all your energy to things that you cannot control.

lol this was an essay, but i think it’s an interesting topic and i hope it can help even a little bit!

[robin-josephette-biden]

A Statement Through Horror: BDG and YouTube

In his video announcing his departure from Polygon Bryan David Gilbert [BDG] stated, “I want to make things that one day people will make a show like unraveled about.” [Paraphrasing here]. Since that announcement he has made some of the most interesting and engaging comedy videos on the platform. On Bryan’s channel, there is a section called “bdg’s scaries” that contains three videos. The first how to make jorts was released April 27, 2019 and will not be part of this analysis, as we are focused on the other two videos. These two videos are Earn $20K EVERY MONTH by being your own boss which was released on October 25, 2020 (two months before his final Unraveled video and departure from Polygon) and Teaching Jake about the Camcorder, Jan '97 which was posted March 3, 2021. If you have not seen these videos yet you should stop reading immediately and go watch them both (honestly everything on his channel is amazing, especially the surprisingly compelling and personal Dances Moving! series) before continuing to read this as I will be spoiling both of them. The position of YouTube celebrity has been the source of a good bit of commentary as short form online media has become more and more central in our culture. Bryan has created two videos that I feel do an excellent job of exploring the relationship between youtuber and audience. I should also point out that this is merely my interpretation of these videos and is in no way BDG’s intended message. I’ll start by going over the first video. Earn $20K EVERY MONTH by being your own boss opens with BDG outside an apartment building, standing in front of a black car. BDG points up at one of the windows and says, “Three years ago I was living in that apartment right there. Third floor, leaky windows, cockroaches, the worst.” I do not know if the real life BDG actually lived in that building, but the 3 years timeframe does line up neatly with his beginning to work at Polygon. BDG continues to bad mouth his old apartment and mentions how he has turned it all around stating, “But just last week I paid off my very first Subaru Impreza. And I own my own house in Nebraska.” This radical change in life-style he credits to, “. . . [working] from home, [making] my own hours, and [being] my own boss. And you can do it too.” I think that it is interesting that BDG’s career up to that point mirrors that of his character, going from newly graduated content creator making small videos in his apartment to one of the most popular creators on Polygon. And all that being accomplished through work that many (rightly or wrongly) would not see as fitting into the mold of the traditional 9 to 5. The idea of making millions working from home, at your own pace, and with no boss is intrinsically tied to the mystique of the YouTube celebrity. Moving into BDG’s office he explains that he makes $20k a month working on spreadsheets. A massive spreadsheet appears behind him that is dated, 01.12.88 (nothing of note happened on January 12, 1988 and the only thing that happened on December 1, 1988 is a large cyclone that struck Bangladesh, January 12, 1888 is the day of the Schoolhouse Blizzard which struck the midwestern US and killed 235 people (remember this for later)) and is filled, seemingly randomly, with garbled nonsense symbols. Many of the cells are the same as other cells and there are empty cells scattered haphazardly throughout the spreadsheet. BDG explains that he got this strategy from Dorian Smiles. In exchange for working on these spreadsheets BDG receives $10k - $20k a month (an amount that lines up pretty damn well with the amount he should be getting through his Patreon page currently, I don’t know if this was true when the video was made though) from Dorian. Wanting to know where the money is coming from BDG asks his bank and they explain that he is wiring the money to himself from another account he has. He grows confused as to the nature of this work and the disproportionately large amount of money it brings in, explicitly mentioning his confusion as to how the money is coming from someone with, “. . . my name and my voice.” and sets about to find and confront Dorian Smiles. BDG sets off for Center Nebraska, which is close to where Dorian lives (a small town in the northeast corner of Nebraska). He states that Dorian’s address hasn’t existed since 1888 (that’s a familiar year isn’t it?) when it was supposedly condemned during an enormous blizzard and is, “. . . just woods now.” The video then transitions to BDG walking through dark woods while his narration talking up the Dorian Smiles program continues becoming increasingly broken. He comes across a figure sitting in the woods that is convulsing strangely, when he calls out to it the figure turns and is him (heretofore named Dorian). Dorian slowly puts his hands over his nose and mouth while staring at BDG at which point the narration cuts out. BDG copies Dorian and when Dorian removes his hands in a flourish, BDG does the same to reveal that he no longer has a mouth. The video quickly cuts back to BDG in his office talking about the program, he asks the viewer, “Why don’t you join me?” and then sits back and smiles while that line repeats without him moving his mouth. The most pressing mystery is who Dorian Smiles is. I think the most likely answer (and one I know I am not the progenitor of) is that Dorian is a reference to The Picture of Dorian Grey by Oscar Wilde, the story of a young man that has a portrait that ages and takes on the ravages of the debauched life its subject lives while Dorian himself does not. BDG would therefore be the unwitting recipient of that blessing, reaping massive rewards while his double, Dorian, lives in poverty and solitude. I like this explanation for Dorian, but I find it to be far more mechanical than thematic. On a metatextual level you could read that Dorian represents the character of BDG. The person that is in all of BDG’s videos, and the one with whom so much of the audience forms a parasocial relationship. In this lens the parallels with BDG’s own life make more sense. By this point in BDG’s career it is not difficult to imagine him feeling stifled creatively at work (I feel comfortable saying this given how soon after this video came out that he departed Polygon). His character had grown too large, potentially becoming alien to him, no longer reflecting the art he wanted to make and so he made a video about a distorted version of himself stealing his voice. In this way the video becomes a statement on his artistic integrity and his desire to test new boundaries and go in different directions. In hindsight, with the knowledge of his departure and then success after leaving Polygon, the video becomes almost heartwarming (if it weren’t terrifying) in the same way that a before and after picture of someone improving themselves can be. We will return to the Dorian Smiles system, but now we must move to the second video, Teaching Jake about the Camcorder, Jan '97. I’ll save you the blow by blow breakdown and aim for a quick summary instead. This video is a simple stationary shot of an old CRT tv. A VHS tape is inserted and a video of a man teaching his, evidently young, son how to use a camcorder plays. It is relatively wholesome and corny in that way that all home movies are and when it ends the tape rewinds and the segment plays again, this time with a few deviations. Over replays the father becomes aware of what is happening and begins trying to reason with Jake through the camcorder begging him to stop watching the tape and move on. The father is menaced by a large shadowy figure that does not speak or move when confronted. Eventually the father resorts to simply taking the camera and recording his own screams of pain. On the final rewind the father simply says, “Attaboy.” before calmly walking out the room and into the dark hallway, a doorway opens at the other end, filled with orange light, and the father walks through and down stairs. The final shot of the video is of the television, showing the hallway, as orange light begins to flicker in the background of the left side of the TV. The sound of the father descending the stairs transitions from the TV to diegetic and a shadow appears briefly in the light. On one level the video is clearly a statement about loss and about trauma. Jake is losing himself by watching these videos on repeat, trying in vain to relive a happier time. In that desperate desire to regain what was lost he is distorting it, making it into something it isn’t, hurting it. At the beginning the father says, “Never ever press the rewind button, otherwise you might record over a precious memory. We always keep the recording going forward . . .“ I think there is an additional, and more personal for BDG, reading however. The father is the modern character of BDG, and we, the audience, are Jake. He is pleading with us to leave the past behind and move on. This was only his 3rd video that he posted after leaving Polygon. It is a plea from him to leave the old character behind and stop trying to make one into the other. To stop obsessively comparing the new videos to the old. To let the future be the future and let the past be the past. He is telling us that his new work will not be like the old, that he has progressed past that and that now his viewers need to as well. The detachment and confusion of Earn $20K EVERY MONTH by being your own boss has transformed into a desire to move forward. But he needed to ensure that his audience was ready to come with him, and so he made a video about loss and the dangers of sinking too far into it. I know that there are some of you that feel I am reading too much of what I assume to be BDG’s thoughts and emotions into these interpretations, and I am the first to admit that I might be. In no way am I trying to say these are the only interpretations of these videos or even that they are correct. I think there is so much more of an artist that they put into their work than they realise. I do not know the mind of BDG, only he does, but these videos made me feel that I had a glimpse into the feelings of a man whose work I admire. These videos are either longer or a drastically different tone to the material he has put on his own channel and as such they stood out to me. They felt different, and they seemed to ask for a different level of scrutiny. On some level maybe BDGs videos can not be divorced from the story of BDG as a content creator, the same as any modern internet semi-celebrity, or indeed any artist. I guess there was also a part of me that wanted to answer the call to action I heard when BDG left Polygon, to unravel his work. I hope in some small way I’ve been able to do that.

[danieco]

check in tag ✅ (Thank you, @chaosmax!!)

1. why did you choose your url?

It’s a partial mashup of two of my names that sounds a bit like a company: “Danie Co.” It’s my Brand™ (facetious) 

2. any side blogs? if you have them name them and why you have them?

Yes, an RP blog @dubmiho and @daniecho, a catch-all for non-YGO reblogs and occasional silly text posts about my life

3. how long have you been on tumblr?

Hard to say, I’ve used Tumblr on and off for years just as a way to collect posts that I liked. I started actually participating in fandom (making and reblogging posts) last December, so like seven months?

4. do you have a queue tag?

Yes, “queue-gi-oh”

5. why did you start your blog in the first place?

Surface level answer: I got back into YGO somehow, was having a LOT of thoughts and needed somewhere to put them. Realer answer: I think the timing with the pandemmy isn’t coincidental. The Atlantic ran an article months ago about how people were mourning the loss of relationships they didn’t realize they had, the outer circle of acquaintances that populated their lives and they saw regularly but didn’t really know. Tumblr I think kind of fills that niche with convos in the tags, etc.

6. why did you choose your icon/pfp?

I honestly don’t know, it’s not even my favorite color. I guess it felt like a quick, neutral thing? Also with the first header I had (a manga panel of Jou going “Hmmmm”), in dashboard view it kind of looked like he was blowing bubblegum and getting concerned he let the bubble get too big. 

7. why did you choose your header?

My header will probably always be some manga panel of Jounouchi, haha. He’s the boy! I was actually a Kaiba stan for like, my first decade of liking YGO. No clue how Jou totally took over this go around, but I’m having a blast. 

8. what’s your post with the most notes?

Definitely a Kaiba joke I tossed off and almost didn’t post because I thought it was “too Tumblr”. Someone I used to follow for feminist film criticism (who I never would have guessed even knew what YGO was) reblogged it at one point, and seeing it on my dash from her was the most bizarre experience I’ve had on here for sure. 

9. how many mutuals do you have?

I honestly don’t know, but this question stresses me out because I recently unfollowed a lot of blogs so I’d spend less time on here and I know some were mutuals. I know the cool kids are always reblogging the “I don’t care how many followers I have/who unfollows me” posts but I still feel bad doing it. :( It feels like not waving anymore to someone you regularly pass in the hallway at work. Minor, but still a bummer. 

10. how many followers do you have?

200, it’s baby blog hours over here always

11. how many people do you follow?

Around 50

12. have you ever made a shitpost?

I’ve made a lot of dumb jokes (affectionate) but I’m not sure any qualify as an actual shitpost. People may think of my super spy Tristan post but I was being entirely sincere!! Sincere, thank you!

13. how often do you use tumblr each day?

God, I don’t even want to think about it. I love you but I hate you, my little dopamine-boosting trap. (This is why I try to follow as few people as possible, so I run out of posts on my dash more quickly.)

14. did you have a fight/argument with a blog once? who won?

No, but I’m pretty quick to just mute blogs by blacklisting their names if I see them being rude to someone or if their posts don’t Spark Joy for me.

15. how do you feel about ‘you need to reblog this’ posts?

Opposed; I understand that’s coming out of a passionate desire to help but frankly (time for a HOT TAKE) I think a majority of the Tumblr activism I see is underinformed and/or ineffectual anyway. 

16. do you like tag games?

Yes!! It’s fun to get to know people

17. do you like ask games?

Yes again!! Same reason. Give me all your opinions. I want to know. Tumblr is like a fin-de-siecle Parisian salon except all our opinions on life, love, art and politics are filtered through a YGO lens (i.e., incredible and inherently entertaining)

18. which of your tumblr mutuals do you think is famous?

This question made me feel old because I immediately thought “What, a secret celebrity is incognito on YGO Tumblr?” But this probably means like, who has the most followers. I know of at least one with a solid following but YGO is such a small fandom it’s hard to feel like anyone’s really “famous”

19. do you have a crush on a mutual?

Maybe a LITTLE and it’s extra silly because a) we hardly talk and b) she might be straight I don’t actually know HAHA it is mostly just for cute fun. I can have a little pandemmy parasocial summer crush, as a treat

20. tags?

I’d love to see anyone do it! Tag me back if you do, I’d love to see them (seriously!! say hello!)

[parasocialpod]

Our Favorite Villains - Transcript

Follow along with the episode here if you’d like to!

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Alex: Hi,  I'm Alex

Nick: And I'm Nick.

Alex: And this is Ice Cream Parasocial, a podcast that covers as many different topics as there are flavors of ice cream. Today, we'll be talking about our favorite villains in media.

Nick: I want to start out by apologizing. If I sound like shit, I have a little bit of a cold.

Alex: Yeah, just a little bit.

Nick: We've been putting off recording for a couple of days, because I didn't want to record with a sick voice, but it has not gone away. So.

Alex: Yeah, this is about as good as it's been in a minute.

Nick: I'm sorry. We all have to deal with it. Uh

Alex: Yeah, this was after me putting enough Vick's Vaporub on you to like, drive every animal in the house to like, go away.

Yeah.

Nick: Yeah, if you don't follow me on Twitter, I posted some pictures of the dogs hiding their noses.

Alex: Yeah. They, uh, that was a lie, actually. They didn't leave. They just, um, buried their  whole faces in the blankets. Cause they were just like, "I'm not going to get up. But I'm sure not happy about what's happening right now."

Nick: Yeah. Winston is a rough Collie and he's got his nose-- from the very top of his head all the way to the tip of his nose is 12 inches long, and he buried his nose all the way up to his little eyeballs under a blanket to get away from the Vick's smell, but like, didn't leave the bed that I was laying on.

So, well, he's not he's, you know, he's just really pretty. He's not very smart.

Alex: Yeah. He's just really loyal. He didn't want to leave your side during this trying time.

He's very loyal to a fault.

He'll do whatever it takes.

Nick: I'm pretty sure he's laying down just on the other side of this door to make sure that we're not dying.

Alex: Yeah, he's a good boy. He does his best every day. Oh goodness.

Nick: Uh, but yeah, uh, speaking of social media: on Instagram, by the time this episode is up, there will also be a picture on Instagram and Twitter for the official podcast. That is the best piece of art I have ever made in my life.

Alex: Oh yeah. It's a real delight.

Nick: And it has everything to do with this podcast. It's promotional for this episode and I love it. Please go check it out. I don't care if you follow us on--

Alex: This is a call to action to look at this picture only.

Nick: Yes. And, uh, if you're listening to us on a platform that you don't usually listen to us on because we're not on a whole lot, hopefully soon we'll be on everything.

But as of right now, we're on Anchor, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Breaker, Radio Public, and YouTube. So hopefully we'll be on Apple Podcasts soon, and then we'll start begging you to go and review us there.

Yes.

They have like, weeks to months of a waiting list because so many people are starting podcasts.

Alex: Yeah. Like I know of at least like three or four people that are starting podcasts like right now.

Nick: Yeah. Well, and the information that I had seen was even older about it, you know, taking a long time to get set up on Apple Podcasts, because so many people are starting podcasts and I'm like, I think that information was pre-quarantine. So I can't imagine how long it will take for us to get there, but hopefully it'll be soon. So.

Alex: Like, I'm pretty sure that these microphones that we're recording on were considered like, essential by Amazon as well, because we got them in like 24 hours.

Nick: Mhmm.

Alex: So podcasting is a very accessible thing to do at the moment.

Nick: Absolutely.

Alex: Oh, goodness. Especially with Anchor--

Nick: Especially with Anchor!

Alex: It's the easiest way to make a podcast!

Nick: Which you already heard our ad for the beginning of this.

Legitimately, lots of love to Anchor. It's made it really easy to do this.

Yeah, no joke. Uh, I love you Anchor.

Alex: Thanks, Anchor.

Nick: I would probably kill for you, but please don't read that in a court of law.

Alex: [Laughs]

Nick: Anyways. Uh, talking about villains.

Alex: So, speaking of villains.

Nick: [Laughs]

Speaking of villains, like me, who would kill.

Alex: [Laughs]

For anchor.fm.

Both: [Laughing]

Alex: Oh no. Are we going to be the first podcast to ever have an Anchor sponsorship revoked?

Nick: Eh, probably not the first.

Alex: Yeah. That's fair. Just one of them.

Nick: [Laughs]

Yeah. We'll be one of many, I'm sure.

Alex: One of many.

Nick: Um, so villains.

Alex: So villains.

Nick: [laughs] I think we have a lot of crossover in our favorite villains.

Alex: Probably.

Nick: Um, but I guess first let's talk about what makes a good villain.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: Because this is something that we talk about a lot. We'll pause a show in the middle and just be like, "I love them". Just like, "I love how well that scene was written" and like, "all of the meaning behind that".

Alex: Yeah. Oh my God.

Nick: I guess some previous context that may or may not be needed is about how we met and started dating.

Because we met at this, um, youth hangout for queer kids, and we had kind of, we-- we'd been like, kind of hanging out, but not really, um, because we were in the same groups together. And then we started talking about movies and cartoons, and realized that we had both wanted to go to college for film.

Alex: [Chuckles]

Nick: I think at that point I'd already dropped out, but you were still gung-ho to be going to school for film, and we were just like--

Alex: Oh yeah.

Nick: Oh, we're both going to school for film.

Alex: Oh yeah. Like you had dropped out of film school. I was not yet in film school, and I was on the precipice of dropping out of film school.

Both: [Laughing]

Alex: Truly a match made in heaven. I'm pretty sure the way that I picked you up was that I was like, "Oh yeah, I want your phone number, so that maybe we can work on a project sometime."

Nick: Oh yeah, that's right. It was doing this specifically like, oh you know, so we can like talk about movies and stuff.

Alex: So we can talk about movies.

Nick: Like, you know, maybe talk about getting into a project together. And now we've been married for almost two years, and we're finally starting a project, and it's not a movie.

Alex: Yeah.

Both: [Laughing]

Nick: We've been in a relationship for five years.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: Almost.

Alex: Oh, god.

Nick: Yeah, we're like less than a month away from, from that. I'm just like, yeah. That's basically it now.

Alex: Yeah, pretty much.

Nick: Time is an illusion.

Alex: Yeah, pretty much.

Nick: So we like to talk about movies. We like to talk about cartoons. We like to talk about media in general, and we are awful to watch movies and TV shows with, because we will pause, and just talk for a half hour, and then play again, and totally forget where we were.

Alex: Insufferable.

Nick: ADHD is fun.

Alex: Oh yeah, absolutely. Like yesterday I think-- or no, day before yesterday-- we've been watching Korra, and, um, we like paused it like 10 minutes before the end of an episode or something and then just didn't finish it until the following day, during which we watched like seven more minutes of that same episode, paused it and then almost didn't finish it until I was like, "Oh no! We never finished that episode!"

Nick: Yeah, because we were just so into talking about the characters and, um, the villains and the anti heroes and all of that stuff. And I think that that one we're having a lot of trouble watching, just because if you don't know, the legend of Korra is a spinoff series of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and it follows what happens after the characters from Avatar: The Last Airbender have grown up and died off and it's about the whole next generation. So we have a lot to say.

Alex: So much.

Nick: And I think that we also have a lot to say about what other people have to say about it. So we'll just get like five minutes in and like something will happen.

And I'm just like, Oh my God, did you see that article where somebody said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we'll just go for like 20 minutes. I was just like, Oh, what were we doing?

Alex: Just shit talking avatar clickbait.

Nick: Yeah.

Alex: But what makes a good villain?

Nick: What makes a good villain? I feel like that's a really, really hard question to answer, because depending on the story, I feel different things make a good villain.

Alex: Right.

Nick: You know, I, something, another question that I put for like a-a conversation starter is does a good villain mean that they're are sympathetic villain? In some stories: yes. They need to be sympathetic for that to be brightening, any kind of, you know, without us just blowing them off.

Alex: Right.

Nick: But in other stories, I feel like if they were sympathetic, Then the protagonist would just kind of get blown off because it's like, Oh, well, I don't know. You know?

Alex: Yeah. Yeah, like I feel like it's almost relational to the protagonist in a certain kind of way where it's like, Oh, you know, I definitely have like my pieces of media where it's like the characters themselves aren't super deep.

Um, and like, I can absolutely admit that where it's just like, Oh yeah, like, I liked this villain because they look cool and they have a good time, but the protagonists in those pieces of media also tend to be a little bit flat.

Um, and I think that that's totally fine, but then like the villains that tend to be in the media that I like that is uh, more like complex. That's also how the protagonists are, is like, there's a lot of nuance to them.

Nick: Right.

Alex: Um, so I think you really have it like spot on there. It's just like what, what's the rest of the tone, like?

Nick: Right. You know? 'Cause one of the villains that I have on here is Count Olaf as one of my favorite villains-

Alex: Oooh, yes!

Nick: -Because he's not sympathetic. You want to throat punch him.

Alex: Oh, he sucks.

Nick: And just like move on with your life, you know, but he still has a-a symbolism and he's the main villain of that story. But by no means, is he the only villain in that story, you know, And he just reminds me of such a classic villain that is evil for one reason, and one reason only. And that is his own personal gain.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: You know?

Alex: Yes. And I kind of liked that you put them on there too, because I feel like with Count Olaf, he's definitely like a character with a lot of depth, but not out of like any sort of like a sympathetic or like deep backstory thing, but just because there's so much intrigue around him. And, uh, just that, it's just like, how does he do the shit that he does, you know?

Nick: Right. Well, and I think that he's a really, really great villain too, because of what he means to the story, you know? You've got these brilliant, genius children that are surrounded by idiot adults.

Alex: Oh yeah.

Nick: You know, and having the tragic backstory that I have, you know, I have definitely had it where, when I was a kid, I would try to talk to an adult about another adult doing something bad.

And while they might be able to be like "Oh yeah, like that is bad" after a while of talking.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: When the person would go through and do it again, they'd be like "Oh no, they're, they're different." Or like "That's not them." And, you know, Count Olaf, shows it in a very goofy way with his different get-ups and like all of this stuff, but watching it, you know, definitely kind of triggered memories, but not in like a, not in the like bad triggered, you know, but it was kind of like, it definitely made me think of like how apt of a-a character that is, you know, for these kids.

I-I am by no means comparing myself to those children who are absolute geniuses, but it's definitely, I can imagine being a kid or being below 18-

Alex: yeah.

Nick: -And watching that and being like, yeah, it's so obvious, you know, and I definitely would love to see what parents watching that think about that. You know? I-I wonder how many conversations it started or how many thoughts it started about believing your kids, even when it doesn't seem super obvious to you that this person is bad or like that this person is finding different ways around things to hurt your kid.

Alex: Right.

Nick: But it's like put it in such a goofy way that's like really entertaining to watch. [laughs] And so I'm just like, that's, I just love Count Olaf as a villain because he starts so many conversations.

Alex: God, yeah. That is such a good point.

Nick: So I guess that's for me, that's what-that's kind of the thread between all of my favorite villains is that they start really good conversations.

Alex: Oh my gosh. I feel like that is such a good way of hitting the nail on the head with this kind of thing. I feel like sometimes a good villain is almost representational. Um, I feel like on the surface Count Olaf is, uh, sort of one of the goofiest, two dimensional villains that you can think of,

Nick: Right.

Alex: But he definitely is like one of the best villains that I can think of for that exact reason, especially for children who do grow up with a lot of like trauma and that kind of nature, and like grow up in like the system, how hard it is for kids in general to bring cases against like adults in their lives.

Um, yeah, God, that is such a good point. I really love that.

Nick: Right. And I really love that, like, until you start thinking of it that way, you probably don't think of him as being that great of a villain, you know, even putting him on here. He was one of the last ones that I added to my list and I quote,

"putting him next to the others it's hard to see him being on the same level and perhaps he's not, but I just, I just have to give love to a villain that is so classic,"

but, you know, actually talking it through beyond the couple of notes that I put down, I'm like, Yeah, no, he is a fucking fantastic villain,

Alex: Right? Like pretty S tier, you know, like not necessarily like a sympathetic villain or something or somebody that you would like want to hang out with, but like very classically, like-

Nick: Just Grade-A bad guy.

Alex: Just good, good, bad guy.

Nick: [laughs] Alright, you want to talk about one of yours?

Alex: Sure thing!

Nick: I feel like we talked about Olaf for three years.

Alex: Absolutely. Cause I would love to follow up on that one with sort of my analog for that: um, another person that I don't find super sympathetic. Uh, but I do find to be a pretty good villain, which is The Handler from The Umbrella Academy.

Which, um, I'm trying to figure out how much to talk about her.

I'm going to try and stay away from plot as much as possible.

Nick: Good luck.

Alex: Um, just for people that haven't watched season two yet.

Right.

But just like, I feel like she's also someone that is so representational of like literal systems.

Nick: Right!

Alex: Um, and also someone that has put so much of herself into the establishment and like so much faith into it that it's kind of like consumed her in this way that she kind of genuinely thinks that she's doing the thing that she's supposed to be doing, that's like better for everyone. Um, and season two it's a little bit, uh, kind of on the fence about that one, but especially in like season one and early season two, I love a good villain that mirrors people that you might meet.

Nick: Right, absolutely.

Alex: Like, Oh, we love a good bad boss [laughs]

Nick: Yeah, she definitely was just kind of in season one, a big stand in for just like the world's shittiest boss that, you know, will actually slit your throat if you don't get things done on time.

But I think that even still in season two, she holds some of that capitalism propaganda kind of thing of she loses her position and, and really loses her identity and is willing to do whatever it takes to not only get her position back, but go even further. And I feel like that's really, I hate to say apt again, but apt for how capitalism kind of makes us all be.

Alex: Yeah!

Nick: You have to work as hard as you can to get all the way up the ranks. And you know, you slip up once, maybe twice and you're demoted and everything goes downhill and you either find a way to deal with that or you don't. And. You, you know, you spiral. And I think that there's so much, especially in the United States where we are, there's this really intense correlation between your job and your identity?

Alex: Yes!

Nick: I feel like, especially since we got married, whenever I talk about you. Just cause you know, you come up more in conversations because people like to call you my other half. And like, that's one of the first things that comes up after I tell people your name is "what do they do?" And it's really hard to have hobbies outside of a job.

Alex: Exactly.

Nick: Especially, in the generation that we're in. If you do have a hobby outside of a job, you're trying to make it become your job.

Alex: Exactly.

Nick: And I feel like that's a lot kind of how she seemed to be, was just this, her identity was very, very intertwined with her job. And so it, to her, it must've felt like her identity got stripped away.

And then she was like, okay, well, I don't like that powerlessness. So I'm going to flip it around.

Alex: Exactly, exactly. And like, that's something that I think is so interesting with the whole commission and that I love so much that originally that was just kind of like a funny kind of gag about the show during- I'm gonna talk a little bit about season one since it's been out for a minute.

Nick: Yeah, it's been out for over a year.

Alex: And I just think it's so interesting seeing someone like Hazel compared to like the handler, um, when it comes to like when your job starts to turn against you. And just kind of, especially with the handler, what I thought was so interesting about her, especially like hearing you talk about it. Um, the flip in season two makes a lot of sense to me because of the way that capitalism is talked about is like this huge, like meritocracy and just sort of like, Oh, you're supposed to get what you work for.

And like, you know, this like thing happens to her and, uh, she expects to be welcomed back and she made this huge, like sacrifice for the commission and to just kind of deal with what she dealt with. Then it's like, of course, she's going to kind of, have a reaction to it. And it's really interesting seeing the ways that different people react to things like that, because I feel like that's a very much a moment where either it radicalizes you or you like latch on harder ever until the establishment.

And she kind of did both.

Nick: Yeah. Somehow she did both in all of the worst ways,

Alex: Literally.

Nick: And talking about things now, 'cause we hadn't really gotten into this conversation too, too much because we wanted to have this conversation on the podcast.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: And until this conversation, I didn't sympathize with her at all.

I was just like, yeah, I know she's 100% bad. Like, well, nobody is a hundred percent bad. She's like 99% bad. And so I really don't sympathize with her, but thinking of it and talking like this now, I'm like well, you know what, actually,

Alex: right.

Nick: You know, if I had a job and I had to leave for reasons and I came back and they were like, Oh yeah, you're demoted. I would be pissed. I would lose my ever loving mind!

Alex: Oh yeah.

Nick: I wouldn't go to the links that she does, but that's because in, uh, in our universe, jail exists

Alex: [laughs]

Nick: and I don't want to go there!

Alex: Would not like to go to real jail.

Nick: Would not like to go to real jail! [laughs]

Alex: Oh gosh. So that was definitely my, a big one for me was the handler. I have a lot of feelings about her.

Nick: Right? Since we're on the umbrella Academy, do you want to go to your other one?

Alex: Yes. We just finished up watching it. So that's why I have so many from them.

Nick: Yeah, a lot of these favorite villains, uh, I've mentioned in the previous episode that I have a bad memory and I'm probably going to mention it in every episode because I have a bad memory.

Uh, But a lot of these are shows that I just watched so they're my favorite villains right now. In two months, they'll be different. And probably two months ago they were totally different. Um, a lot of these shows are just shows that we recently watched. And if I was able to unlock all of my memory, they would probably be completely different, you know?

So. Don't come at me for my favorite villains. Don't be like, how could you not talk about XYZ villain? They're the best one that was ever made.

Alex: Right? Like, I'm just like, I've consumed so much media in my lifetime. I don't know.

Nick: I've consumed so much media in the last couple of months.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: What else was I supposed to do?

Alex: Right?

Nick: I'm not going outside.

Alex: [laughs] Right. No. Yeah. I'm absolutely the same. Like so many of mine are things that I've watched recently. So grain of salt, but, um, one of my favorite recent villi-villians, uh, one of my favorite recent villians is Vanya Hargreeves. [laughs]

Oh my God. I live and die for Vanya Hargreeves.

Nick: That one, we really probably shouldn't get too much into what happens in season two, because if we talk about anything about season two, it'll be a spoiler.

Alex: I can and will cry.

Both: [laugh]

Alex: That's a promise and a threat. [laughs]

Nick: But, at this point, if you haven't seen season one, I just I'm so sorry at this point, like that's your bad.

It was one of, it's been in the top 10 on Netflix for forever. Season one came out over a year ago. I'm sorry. Go watch it before we ruin it. Just pause this, leave, come back. We'll be waiting. Okay. Are you back now? Let's talk about Vanya Hargreaves.

Alex: Let's talk about her. She's the best.

Nick: [laughs]

Alex: Oh my God. I love her so much because like I love a good heel turn so much.

Um, and I think they did it really well with her, um, because I love that they don't pull any fucking punches. Um, like the stuff that she does is pretty heinous, but also I love that they don't shy away from the fact that like, pretty much at every turn when things go wrong with her, the obvious option, and the thing that pretty much all of the siblings and everyone, like, even not the siblings agrees, is like the best intervention is like rehabilitation. Um, and like just fucking talking to her and being nice to her. And I love it when a show. Is willing to not just be like, Oh yeah, this person became a villain, but you're still supposed to like them.

So the most they're going to do is like kind of shove someone a little bit. Like, no, she like. I dunno, she like kills people like multiple people. And like, one of them is like a nice old man, like, you know,

Nick: a nice old monkey

Alex: a nice old monkey, like he's adorable and she just like- Oh, it's brutal. But like, At pretty much every turn, you still sympathize with her because of the way that they play out what she's going through.

I don't know if that's a thing that everyone sympathizes with, but I definitely do.

Nick: Yeah, absolutely. Like for me the first time that I watched it through, when it first came out, I didn't see any of it coming the second time I knew it was coming and I still was like, "Oh my God, that's right!" And even the third time when I finally like watched it with you, I knew! I just watched it like a week before.

Alex: Right.

Nick: And I was just like, Oh, my God. I forgot already.

Alex: That's cold.

Nick: But again, with my personal tragic backstory, I get it, man. If I had those powers, I get it. I would snap. You know again, please don't play this episode in a court of law.

Both: [laugh]

Alex: After I have snapped, please don't-

Nick: After I have snapped. Uh, can somebody please go through and scrub this episode from the internet? [laughs]

Um, but, you know, with having all of her memories erased from her childhood and having them all come rushing back at once and also then, you know, turning around and asking your family for forgiveness, for the bad things that you've done since realizing that, that you didn't have any of these memories as a kid.

And. You know, after having been manipulated and "dealing" with said manipulator, uh, and coming back to like beg for forgiveness and like talk. And having them lock you up because they're scared of you. I would have snapped. I would have snapped so much sooner, probably, you know,

Alex: Oh my God. I ooh that whole scene, I- just like ask Nick. I was dying because like, Oh my God, The whole, like fact that the, um, the little like jail cell thing that she's in is like soundproofed, killed me because it really. I feel like did extra, just in the fact that, uh, like everyone, except for Luther basically was on the side of like, "Hey, no, she's our sister. We need to let her out and talk to her because she's still our sister." And like, she cries at bugs dying. Like, are you kidding me? Like she was going through something, but like, she can't hear any of that. All she sees is people yelling and she's like in a little cage.  

Nick: Right. She can't hear any of that.

And also at the end, all of them decide to side with Luther anyways, you know, they're not happy about it, but they leave her in there. So, you know, she can't understand that they ha- they were arguing for her and that, you know, Luther kind of overpowered them. But I also think that it's really funny because in that scene, that was the most, um, diplomatic argument that they'd had all season, you know, like Diego almost killed Luther in episode one, but if you'll notice he didn't draw a weapon at all in that episode against Luther-

Alex: Rude!

Nick: -Like suddenly they're just talking?

Alex: [scoffs] Bad timing.

Nick: Right. You know? So like, of course she's gonna snap. And so I feel like she is an incredibly sympathetic villain.  And I love her and I just... [chuckles]

Alex: Right, I just feel like it's so masterful that you can make a villain that's like that sympathetic and also like, so distructive.

Nick: Just absolutely brutal.

Alex: Just so brutal. Oh my God. I love her so much. And I feel like this is a good introduction to what. I talk about as my, you know, how some people have like, um, fantasy football leagues?

Nick: Yeah. [laughs]

Alex: I have a uh, fantasy DBT group. Um, because- [laughs] I am a big fan of dialectical behavior therapy. And, um, I'm not going to give like a whole thing on that, but basically like for those who don't know, uh, it's a therapy that's largely geared towards people who have been through like, traumatic situations.

And a lot of the time, uh, when we're watching a piece of media, I'll do the, like, pausing it to talk for like half an hour thing, except I'll like, pause it and I'll turn to Nick and I'll be like, I have a new person that I want to invite to my fantasy DBT group. [both laugh] And Vanya is definitely in the fantasy DBT group.

Nick: Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Alex: Along with several others on this list you will meet soon.

Nick: Yeah. I think a couple on my list too. You're just like, come on, man. Come on.

Alex: You're invited. I believe in you.

Nick: Yeah. I think that a couple that you really want to be in your DBT group... Some that kind of started your fantasy DBT group where Zuko and Azula.

Alex: Yes!

Nick: And I think that it's really funny because on my list I have Azula. And on yours you have Zuko,

Alex: I sure do.

Nick: Uh, just since we've been talking about yours for a minute, I'll I'll go ahead and talk about Azula.

Alex: Hell yeah.

Nick: Uh, she's very arguably a sympathetic villain.

Alex: Yes!

Nick: And I think that following up after Vanya, I can't say that Vanya is simpathetic, and Azula's not, you know, you know, she has some very serious, very obvious mental health issues, you know, in the last couple of episodes, there's a point where even Zuko kind of is like, Oh, she's kind of lost it. And, I love that because he acts like it's so minimal how much she's lost it. And meanwhile, she's like over there, like sweating and panting and she's got the most fucked up haircut. Cause she gave herself- [laughs]

Alex: She has like the full like breakdown bangs and everything. Like we've all been there.

Nick: [laughs] Right, um, and I feel like with those two, it brings up a very intense conversation about nature versus nurture because they're siblings, they were raised by the same parents, you know, they both had the same mom, the same dad.

And so I feel like it's easy to say, Oh, well, Zukos nature is to be a good guy. And that's why he ended up a good guy. And Azula his nature is just to be uh, crazy, I guess, but. I feel like it's still a lot: nurture because Zuko had such a more intense, close relationship with his mother who was the nice one.  And it seemed like Azula had a lot more of a relationship with her father who was an asshole.

Alex: Right.

Nick: And, you know, that's not saying that, Oh, well, if you have a mother figure in your life, then you're just going to turn out to be a good guy. And you know, if you more only have a father figure, then you're just going to be a little asshole. That's not it. The characters were-

Alex: Yeah. Absolutely.

Nick: You know, down to the point of like Zuko and Azula's grandpa on their mom's side-or their great grandpa on their mom's side was avatar Roku. So like she was meant to be their good half and the dad was meant to come from the bad half: big, huge air quotes on good and bad, but, you know, uh, And something else with Azula that I definitely can kind of relate to is that she was born a prodigy.

Alex: Yeah!

Nick: And that's something that got mentioned is, you know, at first, when she was young, she didn't have to work for her fire bending skills, she just had them. And, you know, as someone who was the smart kid, when I was younger and like got put into all of these like big, smart kid classes and saw the other kids that got put into the big smart kid classes, you kind of go one of two ways where either like you start pushing yourself to insanity, to continue being the smart kid and the prodigy, and like still be seen as perfect because you've been kind of bestowed with this perfect-ness and, you know, everybody sees from you and you feel you have to keep up; or you get totally overloaded and give up, I got totally overloaded and gave up. Azula got obsessed with that perfection because she was so young.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: When she got, uh, You know, when she was already being told, Oh, you're a prodigy. You did it perfectly like you're so much better than your older brother. And, you know, so I think that following that path of perfection definitely led her to having that breakdown, you know, and not being able to have genuine friends.

Because she was so obsessed with being seen as like the most perfect and the most powerful, you know, especially with her dad being, being in, wanting to be the most powerful man in the world. How do you follow that up?

Alex: Exactly.

Nick: Especially with your brother being an outcast and totally banished and like, you know, seen as a loser, you have to work so hard for people to not think that you're going down that same path as your stinky little brother, you know?

Both: [laugh]

Alex: Exactly. Yeah. And I feel like even like, from the perspective of like, you know, when she kind of goes off the rails as well, and just kind of thinking about the things that sorta lead up to that and like the family dynamics and all of that, and just like. How much- I don't know. I found a lot of like sympathy with her and like her family dynamics, especially with Zuko where like in their own way- like, you can very much tell that, like, she just kinda wants to have like a family, but she doesn't totally know what that is supposed to look like in a lot of ways. Like, not like she just wants that, but like, I feel like in a lot of ways she does want that. It was just like, "you should come back and live with us."

But like she doesn't, she's a really classic example, I feel like, of people use the tools that they have in order to navigate their lives and like the things that she's been shown her whole life have been, you know, like manipulation and just like shows of force and things. So it's like in order to get like love, which is something and like, Being able to be around like her brother again, like she does all these things that like, as we're watching it for the first time, we're just like, Oh God, like that's so shitty.

And it is shitty, but it's like, kind of thinking about it again. And like seeing her, especially in like season three, like ah, damn , this is just sort of what she knows how to do. And she might not even totally know she's doing it.

Nick: Right. You know, because, with the adults that she had in her life, especially with her and Zuko's mom leaving when she did, I mean, not that she had a choice. Zuko had a lot more time with their mom who was the good one, but then Azula was so much younger. I think that there, I think there's a point where she talks about like, not even remembering what their mom looks like.

Alex: I want to say so.

Nick: You know, so of course, like all she knows is her crazy ass dad and her crazy ass grandpa.

And she knows that her dad killed her grandpa to get power, you know, and seeing him get that power through brute force and through manipulation. How else is she supposed to, you know, go about? And I think that Zuko then in the beginning definitely shows that same, but he's so blessed with having his uncle Iroh to guide him and show him that that's not how it's done, but Azula doesn't get that.

And it's, it's really easy to sympathize her thinking sympathize with her. Thinking about those specific things, but I feel like it's also really hard because she did have opportunities to, fix that and-and be able to think critically about things. And she just chose not to. And I, and I don't know, i-it's one of those things where like, it's just hard, you know,

Alex: Mhmm.

Nick: Like I understand why she did everything that she did. But then there's just so much to me, that's like, come on you could've just...

Alex: Right. Like, come on, man.

Nick: You know, like your friends turned against you to join the other side. Like that could have been your opportunity, man. And it's like for the show, I'm so glad that they didn't then have her turn around and be the good guy because that would have been so annoying if every single bad guy who was like, Oh, actually it's time for my redemption arc now.

Alex: I'm radio rebel! [ laughs]

Nick: I'm radio rebel! I'm lemonade mouth! [laughs] But just thinking about like, if she were a real person, I'm like, come on, man. You could have.

Alex: Right. Absolutely.

Nick: I'm just like, you're going to continue to be on the side that everyone that it seems like you do love and care about in your own way is against?

Alex: Like, I feel like she reminds me a lot in that very same way of, um, like kind of what we're talking about with the handler of just like, what happens when the thing that, you know, Kind of turns against you and is like destabilized and it's just like, do you like cling on for dear life or do you like jump ship?

And it's just like, God does she cling on for dear life!

Nick: Oh, she clings on for dear life. Meanwhile, Zuko, you know, jumped ship and realizes that, uh, there's better things for him to do then try to please his father and family, and like,

Alex: yeah,

Nick: the sweet, awkward boy,

Alex: My sweet, sweet boy, God, I love him so much. [Nick laughs]

Oh my goodness. Like it's so funny because I'm just like, do all of the villains that I like come in twos and like follow a pattern because now I'm just like, yeah. So I like the handler and Vanya and then it was just like, yeah. And then Azula and Zuko. And I'm just like, yeah. So then you have the one that's like very establishment and kind of like loses it.

And then you have the one that like, kind of, uh, [laughs] Is that is like very sympathetic and, um, I'm very proud of them for going as hard as they did. Uh, but it still manages to remain sympathetic [both laugh] like that's something that I also really appreciate with them writing Zuko is that like, he didn't really go to being like on Aang's side until ,  like way towards the end. Um, despite the amount of times during the show that you're like, okay, this is the time I'm so ready. It's all happening. It's gonna happen. Um, but it doesn't, and it's always so frustrating, but again, it's one of those things where I'm kinda like glad that they waited until it made the most sense, because again, it's like you live your whole life, just kind of knowing this one thing and just kind of in pursuit of this singular goal, that your brain is just kind of structured around it.

And like, that's another thing that I love so much that like, while I was watching it, I was like, Oh, that's kind of like, Interesting that they did that, but the more I think about it, um, the more I appreciate it is like the whole like, breakdown that he has.

Nick: right where he like gets really sick?

Alex: Yeah, where he gets really sick and just kind of is like- I think he's like passed out even, or just like dang near for like several days, because of just like this moral decision.

Like, you know, I feel like that's something that I'm really glad that they gave him credit for. Um, and I feel like also kind of speaks to maybe some of why Azula didn't like defect or like why things like hit her as hard as they did. It was just sort of like how much this family has like told them that the things that they are doing is like the right way to be, that it's just like being physically ill, you know?

Nick: Right, absolutely.

Alex: And I'm just like, man, I love this 'lil guy so much and just kind of like watching him learn to navigate the world is so fascinating. And he's just such a teen.

Nick: Right?

Alex: I love villains that you can just very much see the aspects of them beyond, um, like what makes them like a villain. He's very much a teen boy. I love that about him so much.

Nick: Yeah. I think that that's something else that makes him a really, really good villain, and then hero, is that being young adults, I feel like- being young adults that have done not great things ourselves, like not as bad as them,

Alex: [chuckles] yeah

Nick: But you know, like, being a teenager and just wanting to be accepted and just wanting love and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And being willing to do whatever that takes and just following what your parents and like older people have told you is like how things are, and then starting to get older and realizing that that's not how it has to be, you know. And I feel like it really strikes a chord, you know, thinking about Zuko and then thinking about growing through your teens and like young adult stages of like everything that you do and everything that you think and say is dictated by authority figures in your life. And then kind of moving on to having less and less of those authority figures being authority figures, you know, even if they're still there. Kind of starting to be able to think for yourself and realize things and it really can make you physically sick to kind of make that change, you know? And for real humans, that change is really, really slow. For him, that kind of like s- that switch flipped really fast.

And so that sickness really got him.

Alex: Absolutely.

Nick: Yeah. I think that it's really incredible to watch it and see this like thing that I know that I've gone through. And I feel like a lot of people have gone through with, you know, growing up and getting a little bit older. I say that like, I'm super old, but like-

Alex: Ancient.

Nick: -Getting into the more, like getting into your early twenties and like. Really finally becoming an adult, even though there's never a point where you like really are an adult.

Alex: Yes.

Nick: I keep thinking every year, like this is the year somebody that like, people are gonna see me as an adult, but then everybody else also gets a year older and they're like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, honey, you're still a baby, and I'm like, shit!  [laughs]

Alex: Oh my god [laughs]

Nick: But,you know, I don't know. [laughs]

Alex: That is so real. Like the only people that see you as an adult are like teenagers.

Nick: Right.

Alex: And it's just like "oh man, still?"

Nick: Right and I'm just like your babies though! [both laugh]  Um, but just watching that and it feels very real that he got sick and it, it I'm really glad that that was there. [chuckles]

Alex: Mhmm. Big, agree.

Nick: You know, it's really almost frustrating when villains don't have that kind of like big averse reaction when they have a redemption arc where they're just like, "I'm cool now!"

Alex: No, it's cool now though.

Nick: Oh, no, we're good. We're good, actually,

Alex: actually I'm cool now.

Nick: [laughs] So speaking of villains that turn around-that just kind of like all of a sudden they're like fine now.

Alex: Surprise!

Nick: Surprise! I would love to talk about the diamonds from Steven universe. I, they are some of the most controversial villains.

Alex: Yeah.

Nick: But I love them all four of them [Alex chuckles] because, the reason that they're so controversial is because it's so easy to make them a stand-in for whatever you want them to be.

Alex: It really is.

Nick: And that's why I love them, you know, and for me, they always represented family. And to me that meant that always like meant something really deep because. [chuckles] Having my tragic backstory [Alex laughs] and having like, I didn't have great parents and they reminded me so much of that kind of thing of, you know, the pivotal episode when white diamond tries to pull pink diamond out of Steven, you know, and is like screaming and crying about how his name isn't Steven, it's Pink. He'll always be Pink, no matter what he tries to do. And like talking about how he's being silly for acting like this and talking about, uh, how he's acting like a spoiled child and like how she's so over all of his tantrums while she's throwing a huge tantrum.

Alex: Literal tantrum,

Nick: A literal tantrum. And I, I, I know that he has like that perfect line that I can't remember now, and I should have looked it up, but of just like "Oh, well, If I'm a spoiled little brat, that's throwing a tantrum then, uh, what are you?" I think that it is really frustrating that their redemption just kind of flipped like that really fast, but also it was very obvious that the show was coming to a close.

Alex: [chuckles] Yeah...

Nick: So I don't know that they could have done it any slower, but I think that it's also one of those things where. They realized all of the harm that they'd done. And so I think that making that flip was really still pretty realistic. And really necessary that it had to, it had to happen. And I think that it's also really easy to say that it happened super, super fast because we ha- we got that time skip and I don't know, it's just... and I, I love them as villains, even because after their redemption, they're still fucking awful, but they're trying, and they have to be reminded because I know you haven't seen the last, er-because  I know that you watched the movie, but I don't, you haven't seen any of Steven universe future. Um, right?

Alex: I don't believe so, no.

Nick: Yeah. Uh, in the, or I can't remember if it's a movie or if it's Steven universe future, but they're still like slipping up and like calling him Pink and like, you know, and, calling other gems "lower life forms" still. And, but  I think that it was really important to show that because they needed to grow.

And I think that that was some criticism that they got was that they flipped so fast that they didn't actually like grow. And then the show writers were just like, Oh, well just, just fucking wait a second. [both laugh] I love that they were able to make up and kind of fix things, but still show that they were growing and changing and they were still learning.

I also really love what they did with their redemption and forgiveness arc, where they let Steven still, you know, kind of talk to them and teach them and be civil with them without just kind of giving into their every whim and, you know, being overly nice to them in the name of forgiveness, because that is definitely something that I've seen in like different villain redemption tropes before is like, " Oh, well all is forgiven. We're good." And it's like, uh, all might be forgiven, but we are not good.

Alex: We are certainly not good.

Nick: And the diamonds having this idea of like, "Oh, we're forgiven and everything's good." And having Steven say "no, you're mostly forgiven. But we're not good. You still have a lot to learn and a lot to work on." And I think that that's really, really important to have a kid's show.

Alex: Yes, especially in the context of like, kind of talking about those sorts of relationships is like, I think a lot of the time where like inclined to give people a pass  just for trying. [chuckles]

Nick: Right.

Alex: When it's like, you know, people should still be held accountable, even if it's like also being gentle. You know, even if it's like, I do care about you and I want you to do better. And that's why I am challenging you instead of just being like, Oh yeah, that's just how it is sometimes anyways, the past is the past, that's water under the bridge, goodbye! You know?

Nick: Right. Just like. Ah yeah, like you're still saying kind of crappy stuff, but like, you know, you're not like actually killing people anymore, so it's fine.

Alex: So I'm pretty sure we're good actually. [both laugh]

Nick: But yeah, I, I love them because they can stand in for so much because like, you know, for the people where it, they don't see them as like being stand-ins for fam- for shitty family members, they do see them as like politicians or capitalism or society at large. And I think that that's what makes them so great is that no matter what you see them as they still piss you off.

Alex: [laughs] That is so real.

Nick: Y'know, and even with pink diamond, like so far, we've only really talked about the other three, but like pink diamond is an incredible villain, because you, even after you learn about her being a villain, there's still so much of you that loves her because you've known her as this - as Rose this whole time. And this, this idealized different version of her that had changed.

So it's really easy to be like, Oh no, but like, That's Rose she's changed. She's different, but like there's still all of these moments and full episodes that show that like, even though she had grown and changed, there was so much that she still needed to do to grow and change into like being the best version of herself that she could be.

Alex: Right.

Nick: Which was Steven, you know, and I saw a theory a while back about it that was talking about that, about how her realizing that she needed to grow and change made her Rose, and then realizing that she had grown and changed as much as she could as Rose is what made her decide to have Steven and like become part of Steven because she'd done all that she could as, you know, what she was.

And that is such an incredible redemption, you know, for her, while also still being able to understand that there was never really a point where she was the good guy.

Alex: Right. Exactly.

Nick: You know, and they go into it in Steven Universe Future, where Steven has to deal with a lot of that stuff where it's like, he spent his whole life thinking that he was the good guy and being the good guy that it kind of came back to bite him in the ass, you know, as he got older and like starting to actually have to deal with things and kind of becoming the villain in his own story. And I just, ah I love it so much. [laughs]

Alex: Oh my Gosh.

Nick: Even though people wanna like, not love it. I'm just, I do. [both laugh]

Alex: Oh man, I really need to watch Steven Universe Future now cause that sounds really good.

Nick: I think that everybody should watch it, but yeah, like all of the Diamonds are such good villains because even with Pink, you know, just like with Azula you can understand where a lot of her anger and issues stemmed from. And even though you wish over and over again, that she would just fucking learn and do better, you can see where she just can't.

Alex: Right, where it's just like ingrained.

Nick: Right, where it's just so ingrained that like, pretty much the only thing that she can do is  completely change into a different person, you know? And it's just, I love it. I love it. I love it. [both laugh]

Alex: Hell yeah.

Nick: I think that that's about all I can say about the diamonds right now.

Alex: That's so good.

Nick: Cause it's been, it's been a while since I've seen Steven Universe, so it's not fresh on my mind, but I know that I love them as villains.

Alex: Exactly, yeah. Just like one of those things where it's just like, "I don't know exactly how I feel, but I know that it's positive." [laughs]

Nick: Right, I absolutely should have used this episode as a reason to go back and binge watch everything.

Alex: [laughs] I'm doing research for the podcast.

Nick: Right. And I definitely did go back and kind of like do quote unquote "research" for this, uh, for some stuff but I thought that I would just kind of, for some reason, I thought that I would just kind of like remember more stuff as I went and I just didn't.

Alex: Imagine having a working memory.

Nick: Imagine.  

Alex: Oh, gosh.

Nick: But yeah, you've got two that I am very excited to talk about.

Alex: Oh yeah, I sure do. Because I have, um, everyone's favorite icy boy. [laughs]

Nick: Everyone's favorite villain that is awful at being a villain.

Alex: He's real bad at it. Like I-- [laughs]-- um, the Ice Cream-- "Ice Cream"...?

Nick: The Ice Cream!

Alex: The Ice Cream Parasocial.

Nick: Welcome to our podcast, The Ice Cream, and--

Alex: The Ice Cream-- Ice Cream Parasocial is very bad at being a villain. [laughs]

I started to say at being a podcast. I hope we're not that bad at being a podcast yet.

Nick: I mean, we're only at episode two, so we're kind of bad at being a podcast.

Alex: Yeah. Like it hasn't happened.

Nick: Episode two is always bad at being a podcast.

Alex: But, uh, but yeah, no, the Ice King ,  from Adventure Time, Simon Petrikov. I love, I love him so much. Cause like, talk about a fucking 2D villain that ended up becoming extremely 3D while also still managing to be extremely 2D.

Nick: Right.

Alex: Oh my gosh. Um, like the first few episodes where you start to kind of figure out like who he is. And like, his backstory are so interesting because I feel like a lot of the things that I think are so fascinating about him are sort of like, I don't know. It like really makes you think a lot about like personality, I guess, and just brains and what makes us... us.

Nick: Mhmm.

Alex: And just like the amount of times that people will have interactions with him , who  know him as Simon and like knew him, before he was the Ice King, who kind of like want that from him. And like, he can't really give that to them. And it's like frustrating for everyone involved.

Nick: Right.

Alex: And it's just so like interesting to kind of see those interactions happen. And just kind of like... when I was watching through Adventure Time and a lot of these episodes, uh, for the first time, going into my tragic backstory ever so slightly--

Both: [Laughing]

Alex: Uh, just dealing with a lot of mental health stuff, for myself and for just like some people in my life, it really was like cathartic, I guess, uh, to just sort of see a character that felt so representational of just the sort of like, not knowing who  someone very familiar is.  And almost then coming back around to like, love the new person anyways.

Nick: Absolutely.

Alex: Which I think is something that I do really appreciate a lot about adventure time. Is that in the end, like, you know, it doesn't really end up with him, like going back and like becoming Simon, like it's just like, no, I, one of my favorite quotes that I wish I knew off the top of my head, but.

Towards the end of adventure time, one of the later like ice King episodes, there's something in there that's something like, "I'm the ice King and I'm worthy of love too."  and it just really like hit because it's just like, you know, when I was watching through the first few episodes, where you like, kind of figure out his backstory, I remember having a lot of like, emotions about it and just the sort of like, Oh man, you know, like dealing with mental health and like kind of this loss of a sense of self, or like sense of like other people that I knew in my life.

Um, And just kind of being like, man, I really want to get that back. Like, it really sucks that that's gone forever. And then like kind of going through a bunch of emotional acts in my own personal tragic backstory TM, um, and then ending up as an adult watching like some of the finale episodes of adventure time and like seeing this little moment happen where he kind of gets away from this, like, you know, sort of like two dimensional, silly villain kind of thing that he does to just be like, Hey, no, like I'm a person also. And you can also like me, you know?

Nick: Right, absolutely.

Alex: I'm my own guy. [laughs]

It's something about that just really hit was just like, no, there's things to love about this too. I also just love on the surface, um, just with him, how much he just, wants affection and like how much that changed over the course of the series and how at the beginning it was very much like, Oh, it was like this creepy old man towards-

Nick: just stealing princesses.

Alex: [laughing] Yeah. Like just stealing princesses and then over the course of the series, just sort of becoming just like, he just wants some pals. He just wants friends.

Nick: Right, and

Alex: just

Nick: kind of figuring out that the companionship that he thought that he wanted with the princesses, he was able to find it in other places with just having friends.

Alex: Right.

Nick: I feel like that's something that people genuinely go through, is you know, thinking that they, really want this relationship, this romantic relationship with people, but, in reality, all they really want and need is like a couple of good friends, a couple of good pals.

Alex: [laughs] Right. And like, that's one of the things that I love a lot about adventure time too, is that I feel like it's a show that very much kind of grew with its audience. Um, and just kind of even using that as an example, and thinking about like, you know, when you're growing up and you're a preteen to like a young teenager and everything is about like, Oh, you gotta date.

And like, you have to find a partner, or something, um, partner feels like a weird term. Cause I started to say like boyfriend or girlfriend, but like, you know, gender neutral something, find someone to date, I guess. Um, and that's like the whole thing that you do, and then just kind of like growing up and being like, Oh, I can get this from other places. I feel like that's so much, like a lot of the tone in the show is just sort of like, just kind of growing up with the people that grew up with it, um, until I kinda came to a close and they did so many satisfying things, with the ice King in like the final season.

And I'm just like, man, if you haven't finished adventure time, then you should really finish adventure time. Cause it's amazing.

Nick: Right, I really want to go through and rewatch it now because-

Alex: Same!

Nick: I vaguely like, I, I know what you're saying and I know that I've like, I know that I've seen it and I know that I know the story, but like I don't have a whole lot to add because I it's been so long since I've seen it like to the point that I believe that if I watched it, it would be like the first time again,

Alex: No, yeah, same.

Nick: So I'm just like-

Alex: It's been a few years.

Nick: Yeah. I'm was just like, I should definitely rewatch that.

Alex: Yeah, like, I feel like that honestly just speaks to how much it hit me uh that this is like my one memory, like the one, my one brain cell is just clinging desperately to the ice King from like, I don't know, 2018 or whatever.

Nick: Absolutely.

Alex: [laughs]  But yeah, that was one of my big boys that I really wanted to get to one of my cartoon boys. I'm realizing now how many of mine are very mental health oriented. [laughs]

Nick: Well, I mean, that makes sense. Like, I know that I kind of talked shit about people being defined by their jobs in the beginning, but your job is in mental health and like, [ laughs]

Alex: Yeah, like it's something that I'm passionate about and I feel like I would be passionate about, even if it weren't my job. Um, but yeah, and like, that's definitely a part of the lens that I used to look at media and it shows.

Nick: Right.

Alex: Because my other big boy that I really wanted to talk about today is, from a little show that I feel like doesn't get enough love, and it should get more

Nick: Nowhere near enough love.

Alex: It's amazing. Um, if you haven't watched Kipo on Netflix. I forget what the full title is. I always just call it Kipo

Nick: uh, Kipo and the age of wonder beasts?

Alex: I believe so. Yeah.

Nick: Something like that, but I mean, you can find it just by looking up Kipo. Nothing else is called Kipo.

Alex: Yeah. Like, um, it's a really, really, really good show, and it has a villain that actively made me mad when I started to like him.

Nick: Oh yeah. Same, and I knew, cause I watched it before you watched it. And then we were watching it together and I knew it was going to piss you off when you started to like him, because in the first, like half of the season, it was just very much like, yeah, fuck this guy. I want nothing to do with this guy. Get him off the show. I hate him so much, but I knew the twist that was coming and I was like, you are going to be so mad.

Alex: Get them out of my fucking sight.

Nick: Right. They're just like, Oh, this guy sucks. And I'm like little do you know, he sucks AND he has a tragic backstory.

Alex: Yes. And you're going to love him. [laughs]

Oh my gosh. Scarlemagne, I- oh my God. He also very much follows my theme of villains that I adore when they frustrate me, because they don't, um, know, how to be good. Or like when you, think that they're going to, uh, I know that there's like a term. A term for like, whatever the opposite of a heel turn is, but I don't, I guess like redemption arc.

But like, when you think they're going to have a redemption arc and then they kind of like psych you out with it.

Nick: Right. Because they just don't, you can like, see that they just don't comprehend.

Alex: Right. Like they're just not quite there yet. And like, that's something that they do with Zuko, I feel-

that's something they do with Zuko a few times that made me real mad every time, but I'm also glad that they did it. And it's something that they did with Scarlamagne that I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe that they're doing this. That's amazing. And then they [laughs]  and then they faked us out and I was like, Yeah, that's fair. [laughs]

Nick: Right.

Alex: That makes sense, because it makes so much sense for his character. Um, just because so much of what goes on with him is very, again, like the tools that you're given to navigate the world are the ones that you use to navigate the world.

Nick: Absolutely. You know, and when it starts to get into his tragic backstory and right before it kind of shows why he starts thinking the way that he does it's so just, it's so sad because you get to watch him kind of have that mental break and that kind of mental shift of, you know, being really trusting of everything around him, to realizing that the only way that he's going to be able to survive in this world is by being a villain and by being a total asshole and, you know, and the way that the show does it by showing him years after being said asshole, it's just like, ah, man, like, why is he like that?

And then they show you why he's like that. And you're like, I mean-

[both laugh]

-fair that's fair, but I don't like it

Alex: [laughs] That is so true. Like, honestly, just the fact that like walking away from like the episode where you start to figure everything out and I'm just like, you know, a lot of the time I keep coming at things from, uh,

I really like going on the like, am I the asshole? subreddit and I just keep being like, everyone sucks here [laughs] you know, um, and it's just so wild with him, like how he was very much another person where it's like, he does a lot of really awful shit, but like, while he's doing it, you're still just like, no, yeah that's fair. [laughs]

Nick: Right. You know, I feel like it's not too much of a spoiler to say that, you know, he does start to really care for Kipo. She's the main character. And everybody loves her. Like, you know, he starts to really care for her and there's things that she asks of him that he genuinely tries to do. But he's been in this mindset for so long that he just can't.

Really, uh, he thinks that what he's doing is good and to us and, you know, to the other characters, it's so obvious that what he's doing is not good, but he genuinely thinks that he's showing affection at this point, because that's all the affection that he's known for the last like half or more of his life, you know?

Alex: Yeah. And like, it's so interesting with their relationship too, because it reminds me a lot of like the, um, uh, concept in like, Learning in psychology of have like assimilation and accommodation, um, well, where it's basically just like adapting the world around you to like fit your existing worldview when you get new information, versus adapting your worldview when given new information.

And I think that's so much of what makes the bait and switch like really like hit with that whole sequence is that you. I think that it's like, Oh yeah, you see the, you know, he knows that Kipo is good. And like, that means that he's like learned in that his worldview is changing and you know, it doesn't necessarily work like that off the bat, especially when you're dealing with somebody that has that much going on and has had to navigate the world that much with just like so much going against him, I guess, um, that then to see that it was more of a situation of just like, Oh no, this one person is good.

Nick: Right?

Alex: No, everyone else still sucks. But this one person is good.  My love language is murder.

Both: [laugh]

Nick: God. I know that we are not popular enough to get somebody to animate a bit, but all I want is for somebodyto animate my love language is murder.

Alex: My love language is murder!

Nick: Like, somebody who's got like little heart eyes and then like they say murder, like a knife shows up. [both laugh]  Oh, that would be so funny.

Alex: Oh my God. Just like, add that to like the five love languages.

Um, in order I'd say that I'm usually kind of a gift giver, but outside of that, I do, I do really like murder. [laughs]

Nick: Oh my God.

Alex: Oh, God. [ laughs]

Nick: All right. And this has been Ice Cream Parasocial! [laughs]

Alex: Do not read this in a court of law [laughs]

Nick: but do follow us on Twitter and Instagram @parasocialpod and on, and subscribe to our YouTube channel, uh, Ice Cream Parasocial, and hopefully soon I'll be able to tell you to give us a good rating on iTunes.

Alex: Yeah!

Nick: We'll see ya next week!

Alex: Please. Apple podcasts. Notice us. [both laugh] I'm begging you.

Nick: apple senpai notice me. [laughter, followed by outro song]

[bettysimovitch]

get to know me

it’s been... a long time since i last did tumblr bloggy things like talking about myself and not my game over here, so... thank you @yooniesim for tagging me! 💕💕💕

Rules: Always post the rules. Tag 11 new people you’d like to know better

i don’t know if i’ll have enough people to tag back right now, since most of my old simblr friends are either inactive or probably don’t remember me since i’ve been sorta MIA... for about five years now lol but feel free to do it too (and link me so i can read it, i’m rusty and Bad At Tumblr sdfhgkjd)

1. Dogs or Cats? both! i’ve only had dogs so far, though.

2. YouTube celebrities or normal celebrities? man i live for parasocial relationships with youtube celebrities

3. If you could live anywhere where would that be? i’d love to live closer to the sea, some day. or in an island. the possibility of going out for an oceam swim every day fills me with joy, ahahhaha.

4. Disney or DreamWorks? didney is more of a fixture in my life

5. Favorite childhood TV show? difficult one! cartoons were a heavy part of my childhood, but i’d have to say the one that “hit me” the hardest was hey, arnold! i just related so much to arnold as a character (and had a huge crush on helga, haha...), every episode felt so different from everything else i was watching at the time. another nicktoon i really liked at the time was “as told by ginger”, and i was also a huge anime kid. my first favorites were sailor moon and yu yu hakusho, but digimon (adventure and tamers), along with sakura card captors and even dragon ball are among my all time favorites from that time, too.

6. The movie you’re looking forward to most in 2020? is black panther 2 coming out next year?

7. Favorite book you read in 2019? o beijo na parede, by jeferson tenório

8. Marvel or DC? wish i knew more about dc, but yeah, marvel

9. If you choose Marvel favorite member of the X-Men? If you choose DC favorite Justice League member? nightcrawler! and jean grey. i used to like cyclops a lot too as a kid but let’s pretend that never happened lol

10. Night or Day? i do function better during the night

11. Favorite Pokémon? mewtwo... baby

12. Top 5 bands: beatles, bright eyes, cursive, bts, bish

13. Top 10 books: the paul street boys (ferenc molnar), capitães da areia (jorge amado), secret garden (frances h burnett), o beijo na parede (jeferson tenório), the picture of dorian gray (oscar wilde), never let me go (kazuo ishiguro), the girl with the dragon tattoo (stieg larsson), the orange girl (jostein gaarder), song of achilles (madeline miller), momo (michael ende)

14. Top 4 movies: spirited away, the postman, maleficent, the lion king

15. America or Europe? south america when the US isn’t breathing down our necks trying to intervene in every single government lmao

16. Tumblr or Twitter? twitter because i hate myself........

17. Pro-choice or Pro-life? pro-choice

18. Favorite YouTuber: callmekevin, korviday, jenna moreci, anthony padilla, james turner

19. Favorite author? oscar wilde

20. Tea or coffee? tea but i have a sad addiction to coffee so...

21. OTP? i have... so many... from so many fandoms... although my current hmmm kpop one is. onghwang. good boys.

22. Do you play an instrument/sing? i play the recorder like that wonderful my heart will go on cover

as i said, i don’t know who i can tag but please!! feel free to do it and link me so i can check it out :’)

[weak-aesthetic]

you know, i am really glad andrew garfield is finally getting some down time. he has been busy since nwh and he deserves a breather.

should said breather be with the shadiest person he’s dated? imo, no, it shouldn’t. however, he’s a grown man and if he wants to make bad decisions, that’s on him, nothing i can do about it. do i support this stupid decision? absolutely not, but i still support him and i will continue to support him. he is going through lot, like losing his mother, i believe he, like many of us, is still recovering from the mental and emotional issues the virus left us with, he suddenly overloaded his schedule and was thrown heavily back into the limelight with nwh. dude is grieving and trying to piece himself together and while i personally haven’t gone through losing a parent, i know what some sort of loss and heartbreak feel like and i know it can really mess with your head and lead to you making some of the worst mistakes of your life. now i am not excusing his decision to date such a shady woman, but it’s his life.

imo, she is more than likely taking advantage of his vulnerable state and using it to her advantage. i imagine her tiktok and whatever else social media she uses has blown up because we keep checking it out to prove she’s shady and that’s probably what she wants. she’s gaining viewers even if you’re viewing to prove she’s a shady person. now i cannot confirm this, it’s just my personal opinion, feel free to disagree.

back to andrew, i have been a fan of his since i was 12, i am 24 now; that is literally half of my existence. this parasocial relationship i have “with” him has been a HUGE part of my life, clearly since it’s been there for half my life. i personally will continue to support him (unless he does something that is just absolutely awful) and not blame him for choosing a terrible partner at this moment in his life. i have been in a dark place before in my life to where my decisions weren’t the best ones, in fact they were the worst ones. so to put blame or hate on someone for choosing a shady partner while they’re publicly stating that they’re grieving is, imo, such a weird thing to do. again, feel free to disagree. his movies and his interviews personally helped me through a lot and i am sure they’ve done the same for many others. like 65% of my personality is being a fan of his. people i barely talk to but who know me on some sort of personal level, immediately think of me when they see anything related to andrew garfield. hell, my phone sometimes automatically fills in ‘and’ as ‘andrew’ because i talk about him so much. he was my third most listened to artist on spotify last year. i won’t go on about my personal belongings that are related to him because we will be here all day. but to stop supporting someone who has been a part of my life in some way for a long time all because he’s choosing a shady partner in a dark time in his life is an absolutely wild concept to me.

yes, i am fully aware of what she has done and it’s really fucking shitty. she is, imo, a terrible person. she uses people for money, which in this economy, should be a crime, it really should.

if you wanna stop being a fan or stop supporting him or hate on him, that’s 1000% your choice and i personally will not fight you on it. it’s your life, no one can stop you from making the decisions you want to, even if they’re bad ones.

[eldritchsurveys]

210.

1. Do you ever give things away to your friends? >> I mean, I would...

2. Does it make you uncomfortable when your parents talk about finding people attractive? If your parents don’t make comments like that, what sort of things can your family members say that do make you feel uncomfortable? >> ---

3. Have you ever heard of an “alternative spring break”? Have you ever participated in one or known someone who has? >> Oh, yeah, when I was going to the New Alternatives drop-in center... during Spring Break times there’d often be these college kids that would come in and volunteer for us for an alternative spring break instead of going to Cancun or whatever. I remember us going to the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens with one of those groups of college kids, and I think the Natural History museum, and an art museum but I can’t remember which one (MoMA, probably).

4. Is there anyone’s friendship or relationship, in particular, that makes you jealous? >> Yeah. I think I’m just envious of being able to be emotionally close to someone, in general. I feel robbed because I ended up with such shit attachment problems. It’s not their relationship I envy, it’s their ability to, like... be that kind of person to their partner. IDK.

5. Do you feel a sense of community among the Tumblr survey-takers? If not, is it because you’re not interested in that sort of thing or is because you feel excluded for some reason? >> I don’t really know any of the tumblr survey-takers. D: I remember people like Lane from Xanga, so I still keep up with their lives like some kind of creepy one-sided friendship lmfao. (I watched a YouTube video that says this sort of thing is apparently called a “parasocial relationship”.) I don’t really know how to interact with other survey-takers, though, so I just end up knowing a bunch of random things about people without really... knowing them. Or without them knowing me. Trippy.

6. How often do you think about what guys will think of you? >> It’s a reflexive thought process sometimes because of learned social bullshit, but I don’t actually care.

7. Have you ever made a friendship pact with someone, where you pricked your fingers and became blood-bonded? If not, have you ever made any sort of friendship pact? >> No.

8. If you are on birth control that allows you take pills and skip your period, how often do you opt to skip it? How come? >> Literally the only reason I take birth control is because the skip-your-period method of pill-taking exists. It’s a lesser-evil pact-- I get mild dysphoria in order to get rid of something that causes me greater dysphoria. I’ll take it.

9. Is there a book series where you loved the first book, but for some reason the other books in the series just didn’t measure up? >> I don’t think so.

10. If you are a registered voter or are considering registering for this upcoming election, do you know which statewide issues will be on the ballot this November? Can you list some and share which way you will be voting on them? >> This would have been more timely last year.

11. Have you ever been to Pride? If not, have you ever been to any sort of Slut Walk or other protest? >> I have been to (and in) NYC Pride.

12. Are there any stores/restaurants that you would like to shop/eat at, but there aren’t any located near enough to you? >> I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

13. If you are a part of a certain fandom or are a fan of a popular series/musician, is there a rivalry between your fandom and another one (e.g., Lady Gaga fans vs. Katy Perry fans or Marvel vs. DC)? >> I think there are various rivalries in the fandoms I’m in, but I don’t pay attention to them. That’s not my area of interest.

14. How many people would you say you are close with? Who are they? >> :T ...Inworlders! Yep.

15. Do you ever have smell hallucinations? >> I don’t think so. 

16. If you were told by a professional that you were unable to become pregnant, how would that affect you? Is there something important to you about conceiving a biological child rather than adoption? And finally, if you even want to have children, would you choose adoption or surrogacy or would you go on childless? >> It wouldn’t affect me one way or the other, because my lack of sexual activity means I can’t get pregnant regardless. I’d much rather my reproductive organs shrivel up and fall out of my body one day so I never have to deal with them again, that’d be the ideal. Not being able to get pregnant but still getting a period is like some kind of cruel fucking joke-- if I can’t get pregnant then why does this literal hell still happen every month???? Fucking bodies. Anyway, I don’t care if I never get to raise a child, really. It’s not a priority. In fact, I’m willing to bet I’m better off without doing so.

17. Is there something that you did not used to take seriously, that you either now take seriously or wish that you had in the past (e.g., a relationship that you miss, your education, etc.)? >> I wish I’d taken my drug usage more seriously instead of thinking I was invincible just because I’d been extremely lucky. Maybe I could still enjoy drugs on occasion instead of now going todash every time I so much as eat an edible.

18. Are there any subjects that you are interested in so much that you would read whole books or academic journals about them? >> Whole books, of course, depending on the writer... academic journals tend to be too jargon-heavy for me.

19. Are you physically affectionate with your friends? >> No.

20. When you were in middle school and high school, did you witness a lot of bullying? How did the teachers react to name-calling or violence? >> Not so much outright bullying as just... the less obvious kind of social exclusion and us-vs-them-ing. You know, getting ready for adulthood. :|

21. If there is a specific celebrity (or two, or three!) that you dislike, is it because of petty reasons or is it because they’ve done something absolutely damning in your mind? >> I just don’t like Russell Crowe. It used to be a joke when I lived with Vlad-and-Company because I didn’t have a good reason or anything, I just would yell “FUCK RUSSELL CROWE” any time he was brought up. I don’t know what annoys me so badly about him, but I like to be hyperbolic about it. And I don’t like Johnny Depp anymore, because he just got over-cast and over-hyped and then all the abuse stuff came out and I was like “well that was expected but it really does put the last nail in his coffin lmao”. But most actors I’m pretty apathetic about.

22. Are any of your friends/relatives actually impressive artists or writers? Are you willing to share an example of their work? >> I know a variety of impressive (to me) artists and writers here on tumblr. I’m not just going to randomly put their work in a survey answer with no context or anything, though, that feels weird.

23. When it comes to relationships/crushes, are you more often the pursued or the pursuer? >> ---

24. Do you have anyone’s tweets sent directly to your phone? Whose? >> No. LOL I think Sparrow does that with Hozier.

25. Do you ever find yourself making negative comments about other people’s appearances, whether it’s people you dislike or even just people on tv? >> Yeah, sometimes. It’s a dumb learned behaviour that I got sick of a while ago and stopped doing nearly as much as most people, but I haven’t completely unlearned it.