#gocharov ice pick joe

[brainmoss]

Is no one really going to comment on Goncharov's musical spin off (!!!) and it's hilariously spot on portrail of Andrei's and Ice Pick Joe's relashionship in just a few seconds of the background while Goncharov and Katya are dealing with their own stuff? 🤣

[nialbu]

I liked the parts with Neve.

I actually assembled a cut of the film that only consists of her arc, scenes where people talk about her, and scenes that I think are relevant to her story.

It was about 27 minutes, but it’s a pretty good movie.

The thing about the recent Goncharov resurgence is that imo people are reading way too much into the symbolism! It was a famously troubled production- the anecdote about Jean-Luc Godard ringing Matteo JWHJ0715 just to laugh down the phone and then hang up is probably untrue, but trotted in every New Wave cinema tell-all book nevertheless- and they were almost 20 million over budget. No wonder the dress in Katya’s dream sequence is reused by Sofia in the balcony scene, and appears on a shop window in Naples. They had to save any dollar they had left!

Replying to this SO late, but: ok a) symbolism is in interpretation, which means it's the audience's contribution more than the creator's, which means there's no such thing as "reading way too much into it."

Also, yeah yeah they were over budget but who isn't amiright. I DO believe the anecdote about how much they had to bribe every single soldier along the Berlin Wall in order to do all that shooting on location.

And c, they make the budget-necessitated symbolism WORK, okay! Katya dreams about the dress because Sofia wears the dress because the dress symbolizes the freedom she could have had if she'd left with Sofia then, and Katya knows that! So when she sees it in the shop window toward the end, it's still out there but it's too late, it's behind glass and she doesn't have time to stop, because she has to go kill her husband and continue the cycle of revenge... UNLESS you subscribe to the Katya Lives theory (10/10 I agree), wherein that specific dress is still probably out of reach, but maybe she can reach "New York in the fall" like Sofia said!

Constrictions create great art, basically. Imagine how much better some modern movies would be if they DIDN'T have billions of dollars to lean on, rather than, like, good writing and acting.

[mooneoos]

Goncharov. Sun,moon and Rising- A deep analysis into  the 70s- and Scorsese´s response

Despite being an ambitious, masterful and impeccable piece of cinema Goncharov is perhaps one of the most mistreated works of the 70s. Often forgotten and overlooked  Goncharov is the tale of a misunderstood man in the Russian and Italian mafia. What beguils me even more than the severe mistreatment of Martin Scorseses magnum opus, is the supsequent lack of detailed  analyses aside from the rare mentions in documenteries such as “A brief history of homoerotic tension in cinema post Francis Ford Coppolas 1972 The godfather”

Although undeserved.I am taking on the immense task of analyzing Goncharov and his Birth chart according to Western astrology The following aspect will be decided :

- Sun 

- Moon 

- Mercury 

- venus 

- Ascendant

Aquarius sun

Aquarius suns are often mistaken for extrovert and unconventional geniuses (à la mad scientist stereotype) This is often not the case.Goncharov displays numerous traits fitting a true Aquarius. Arguably most apparent in the sauna scene. This is often remarkably overlooked and glanced over. Mario makes a deep confession shacking the foundations and beliefs of all men present in the scolding sauna,meanwhile Ice-pick joe (played during career defining moment by John cazavale) places on the wooden floors of the sauna in a distraught manner. in an attempt to defuse the terrible consequences which could develop Goncharov changes summaries Marios speech in such a way that the confession doesn't seem to bother the irritable Ice-pick joe therefore the subject is changed and danger averted. This is the defining moment Goncharov's relationship with Mario. In this display of loyalty and intelligence guised as Street smarts ,Goncharov is the definition of an aquarius  

Scorpio Moon

Moody, emotional, rational and intense are words that describe the rich atmosphere of the film as well as the titular character of Goncharov.

Aquarius mercury

As previously mentioned in the analysis of the sun sign, i Believe that Goncharov is not only an aquarius sun but also an aquarius mercury, Although the Sauna scene is a splendid example of his mannerisms I think that the coffee shop scene equally demonstrates this. As Katya sits down in a creaky wooden chair she casually mentions how Goncharov's hair is unkempt, this leads to Goncharov taking her shallow observation as a token of her attention to him as well as their relationship. He expresses his thought in a manner that is distant yet intriguing.

Gemini venus

Katya is the principal love interest of Goncharov and will be my main focus on deciding his venus sign. Katya is a perfect example of the type of person that a gemini venus would be attracted to. Katya is Dramatic and self assured. She displays an understanding for Goncharov yet she willingly betrays him numerous times. Goncharov demands a challenge in his relationships, this is also apparent in his relationship to Ice-pick joe in numerous scenes. 

 and finally 

Virgo Ascendant

Originally posted by pedroam-bang

undoubtedly the most apparent placement in Goncarovs chart. Gocharov lives and breathes as a Virgo Rising. He is witty, resourceful and hard working to  a fault.

Martin Scorsese said the following about Goncharov:

“You know, I think it's a brilliant part for an actor to play. There is no doubt in my mind that Robert is the best he can be as Goncharov. I don't know a better person.”

Its clear that Director Scorsese praises the actor for his exceptional run as Goncharov. The character has been played by a number of talented actors but there is no doubt that the blueprint was set in stone by none other than Robert De Niro a Virgo Rising.

 for more information on Goncharov and Scorsese please consider reading

-An introduction into Scorsese red.

- How Eartha kitt paved the way for your favourite directors.

 and lastly

A brief history of homoerotic tension in cinema post Francis Ford Coppolas 1972 The godfather

[tetrasballs]

my favorite part of gocharov was when the ramones and ice pick joe played in a super underground theater with a audience of 4 drunks. it was the most legendary performance you can imagine. goncharov himself also played the violin but ice pick joe actually got really angry when he played a note wrong so it ended in a fistfight. the ramones actually wrote a song about it, and it’s called ‘baby i love you’ inspired by sofia and katya breaking them up and then kissing after their girlboss y/n moment. all in all this was an inspiring and motivating.