#gnc will byers

[femboybyers]

Bc people are coming out of the woodwork to discredit the idea that he's gender nonconforming and is instead a """strong""" character (like these are somehow opposed?) again, allow me to say:

Will Byers is not a rugged masculine stoic badass.

Will Byers is not a fighter (in the sense that El, Nancy, and Hopper are), he consistently cowers and hides when violence breaks out.

Will Byers doesn't attack dart, a creature he KNOWS is related to the Upside Down and is potentially dangerous, and instead treats it with compassion.

Will Byers is verbally described as "sensitive" and "not like most".

Will Byers has not meaningfully assisted in activities requiring physical exertion (digging the grave in s4, flipping the car in s3).

Will Byers cries more than any other male character in the show, and might be the character to cry the most.

Will Byers often fulfills a role in the narrative which is typically filled by female characters.

Will Byers is the only character to be clocked as queer by other people in the show and called slurs which almost always have to do with a failure to perform masculinity (not to mention being a queer man is INHERENTLY a failure to """correctly""" perform masculinity).

Will Byers is gentle and kind and selfless. He's also scared ALL the time.

He is not a "strong" character in the traditional sense. He IS, however, an incredibly RESILIENT character.

He has faced more danger and been put through more trauma than almost anyone else in the cast (except El) and he is STILL just as gentle and kind and selfless.

His sensitivity IS his strength.

And that's genuinely subservise and impactful to see in a young male character. I would have KILLED for a character like Will when I was his age, for some kind of validation that this was not only an OK way to be a guy, but a heroic and valuable one!

In conclusion, Will Byers is a sissy, a fairy, a pansy, a girly boy, and he's a goddamn hero for it.

[conflictofthemind]

what are ur thoughts on gnc will?

This will be a long winded one.

Short of it: yes he is gender non conforming. I don’t think he’s particularly “girly”, but it’s this nice touch of the feminine he carries. There’s other users on this platform that have probably discussed this in a more proper manner than I have, and certainly more than I will writing this ask. I’m just going to give my own flavour of take and personal anecdotes about the topic under the read more 🙃⬇️

Honestly I find it a very underrated topic of discussion in this fandom that otherwise likes to discuss the same things over and over again (all love because I do it too with the added bonus of being new so often I don’t realize).

I do think it’s because the fandom isn’t very conducive towards it. There is a small but sometimes loud portion that likes to assume you have some secret nefarious reason behind any ‘gnc will’ posting (i.e. stereotyping). Or say by pointing out certain things as feminine, I’m being regressive and misogynist. Whereas I have another profile where I almost exclusively discuss female characters and often gender in those media. This is not a new topic to me (which I’m sure you’ll see).

In the first season he is absolutely a damsel-in-distress. He’s kidnapped by a monster and is hiding away in a ‘castle’ while his friends must come to rescue him. This continues from then on, but is the most obvious in S1.

We see the two characters that tend to chase him down when he is upset or in danger being Mike (duh) and Lucas, who are the two most masculine members of the party and play corresponding roles in DnD as Paladin and Knight. Even in the painting Will makes of the party, it features the party (Mike highlighted) facing off against a dragon. In that game the boys play in the arcade, the goal is defeating the dragon to save the princess —

— which is also such an iconic image of particularly Sleeping Beauty, who is a princess trapped in a castle. I have a whole idea centered around this one for later.

So in terms of role he has definitely been given a traditional female one. Even within the Byler relationship, Will stays in that passive ‘yearning maiden’ type position who is waiting for her true love to confess his feelings first. As Mike should.

All of that might have been very controversial because quote unquote ‘boxing Byler into gender roles’ is regressive (even if the characters intentionally fit these princess/knight archetypes, oops!). Personally I don’t find it regressive at all, I find it interesting to look at things from this perspective. Part of this labelling is the deconstruction of the tropes as well. Will can’t and is not going to remain passive in Season 5, so how will this be dealt with and how will it affect specifically the Byler storyline?

I’m especially interested in whether he completes the transformation from Princess to Witch 👀 but my fairytale posting might get some entries of its own.

Now what you provably mean irt clothing and gender presentation:

The answer is still yes. I think a lot of the reason people deny Will as being gnc is because he doesn’t look the part. But instead of thinking about why that might be, the conclusion is made right then and there.

Will wears clothes that are mostly hand me downs from Jonathan. Their family is poor and if he does get ‘new’ (read: personal choice) clothes they are almost certainly from the thrift store. He has no option to even try and experiment with.

In the original pilot the Duffs actually wanted him to be identifiable by ‘colourful’ (read: girly) clothing, and did keep a bit of that in his Will the Wise outfit that is customized and only worn when he’s comfortable and in his element. The original conversation around the table was Dustin poking at him for wearing a wig and purple gown:

My personal headcanons are that he would keep the natural colours because they are pleasing to the eye, but would experiment and branch out with slightly cuter designs once he is out of Hawkins’ claws. I think the femininity in his style would be kept fairly lowkey apart from certain DnD reunions with the party where he might pull out a costume with some experimental and colorful makeup.

Like, I own an 80s vintage sweater that I think he would wear:

I hope the theoretical reader enjoyed a look into my closet lol. But yes, I see Will as gnc (very broad term there btw) and it is a part of my enjoyment of the character. I am mostly a fan of female characters, and the few male characters I do really stand behind usually have at the very least a few gender non conforming traits.

<- All of this is said as a lesbian who doesn’t necessarily consider herself gender non conforming, but also doesn’t fit a lot of major feminine ideals. I’m butcher than the average twenty year old woman solely off of not wearing makeup, not shaving, and being gay which I do consider as particularly gender nonconforming for women.

[katimanki]

live, love, lesbyler 💖

[pinkeoni]

I feel as though there is a desire to completely dichotomize byler when they don’t need to be polar opposites in order to fit together. They are individuals, but it’s their differences AND their similarities that make their dynamic what it is

[sandinmybed]

moment of appreciation for will's s4 outfits because they are so cute

also a thought: will canonically matches his outfits. he matches his belts to his fits, he dresses in bright colours, he visibly takes care in his appearance. will being interested in fashion and outfits could be such a fun trait to play with if this fandom wasn't so terrified of gay stereotypes

[sinclairstarz]

im a latino byers truther btw

[boggie-things]

skater AU hcs

Nancy:

-GNC | He/She & Unlabeled

Robin:

-Nonbinary | They/She & Lesbian

Jonathan:

Trans (ftm) | He/Him & Pansexual

Steve:

Gay | He/Him

[butterflysonnets]

remember when el was gnc in season 2? yeah… let's bring that back

[inutaffy]

it's crazy bc i once saw a post saying that someone thought it was kinda weird that people really enjoy the max+el+will friendship bc it makes will seem like one of the girls, but like, it's definitely the other way around. max & el are one of the boys . to me

[cleric-will]

.

[pretty-emo-dad]

Why are we fighting over who’s gnc??

[astrobei]

No no no… butch Will Byers

so i’m not the op of the post in question and also i am not a butch lesbian so i’m obviously not trying to speak from a perspective i don’t have. but, at more of a surface level, i guess i do see where you’re coming from: if you take will’s canon gender nonconformity (and its direct correlation to his experience with sexuality) and translate that to a lesbyler au, it makes sense that the immediate inclination would be to make her butch — to have the inverse of that gender nonconformity play out, one that is also directly correlated to her sexuality and would often ostracize her from the general (heterosexual) population. however to me, characterization across these types of AUs is more about maintaining a character’s core traits and values, which i think is what op was getting at in their tags and the overall intent of the post. which is of course not to say that will’s experience with being gnc is not a vital part of his character and story, but more so that i think mike’s core personality traits and values align a lot more closely with the historic associations with the butch experience and identity than will’s do (re: op’s tags — being a knight, protector, etc). these types of takes are a lot more interesting to me because i feel like they go one step further than the more immediate and instinctive interpretations and instead create a kind of thought exercise that i find really, really fun: taking the traits that really set a character apart from the others (e.g: mike and will sharing a lot of the core traits and values that their overall story is built off of, while also being so, so different in other ways that fuel their independent arcs) and keeping those consistent while changing so much about the world around them. and, in the case of a lesbyler au, even changing parts of who they are and the expectations placed on men vs. women and their experiences with sexuality because of it. what makes a gay man gnc and how he is treated because of it will always be a lot different than how a gnc lesbian is treated, and i think there’s a lot of nuance to this that could be really interesting to explore.

anyways, all of this to say that i do think if you were to make one of them butch it would absolutely be mike over will and i will probably always have a hard time seeing it the other way around. but also i feel like this fandom can be weirdlyyyyy combative about disagreements in stuff like this and that AUs and hcs that are meant to be in good fun so often get taken so seriously that it doesn’t become fun anymore, so i hope my little spiel made sense! at the end of the day if butch will byers is the hill you’re taking a stand on it does not personally affect me in any way and im not here to police you about it. but me personally i’m very definitively over here in lesbyler butch mike land 🏴 (<- waving my flag)

[fresh-and-funky]

"Will being visiblly gay is very important to his character, so for your gender bent! Will aus he should ideally be either Megan from But I'm a Cheerleader or a butch lesbian."

just wish people took his canon gne self that seriously tbh, because it's true it's so important yet usually you get people saying you're feminizing him too much or being stereotypical (no one ever is, he's canonically not a regular boy! also stereotypical gay people aren't something wrong and won't hurt anybody thanks) but when it comes to fem!will it's "yeah pants wearing short haired butch!!", why does it only matter then? 😕 or people getting excited that fem!mike is so feminine but ignoring him being invisibly queer and masc as a gay man in canon, it's really transparent to me to see how mike especially is viewed with reactions to versions of lesbyler. but they say it's important to the characters when its fem byler. okay. I just... yeah wish people let actual canon will be the NOT masc, different boy that he is or not judge people who want to embrace who him being gnc, not punish him by making him masculine. or that posts like yours get made about canon will and reminders that he's gne too.

not saying that you do this of course, maybe you've posted about letting canon will be gng too, sorry to bring it to your inbox your post just reminded me of my feelings towards the au and hope for the fandom ❤️

i don't know what you mean by gng or gne, but I just mean that Will (while not feminine) takes up a sterotypically feminine role in the story, and is very visibily queer. He gets saved by his childhood best friend, and is referred to as soft and sensitive. Will himself isn't feminine (and some people do overly feminize him, but that's another issue) but his role is.

All I'm saying is that in people's genderbent fem blyer aus, people whould be able to look at Will/Willow and just know she kisses girls.

like people know szn one that Will Byers is gay:

[alex-the-bringer-of-chaos]

The party and other "kids" - my Stranger Things hcs

Obv if there are any canon confirmations I will be uptading this.

Angela (she/her).

Cis girl, Pansexual and Monogamous.

Dating Jake. Had a crush on El (and couldn't handle the sapphicness).

Dustin Henderson (he/him).

Cis boy, Trixen and Ambiamorous.

Dating Suzie. Soft romo with El. Has a crush on Max.

Is part of The Party.

El Hopper-Byers/Jane Ives (she/bun/fae).

Pangender, Cupiorose, Pan desinoaro, Lesbian aceflux and Monopoly - no preference.

Dating Lucas and Max. Soft romo with Dustin. In a wavership with Suzie. In a simulship with Mike. Dated Mike (cause she thought her platonic/familial feelings towards a guy that showed her compassion was romantic attraction).

Is part of The Party.

Erica Sinclair (she/her).

Cis girl, Lesbian aspec and Demiamorous.

Lucas Charles Sinclair (he/they).

Cis boy, Bisexual greyrose (prefers women) and Mesoamorous.

Dating El and Max. In a simulship with Will.

Is part of The Party.

Max Mayfield (she/they).

Bigender, Bisexual and Biamorous.

Dating El and Lucas. In a simulship with Mike.

Is part of The Party.

Mike Wheeler (he/him).

Nonbinary boy, Achillean greyaro demiace and Monogamous.

Dating Will. In a simulship with El and Max. Dated El (cause he thought his admiration towards her + liking the idea of superheroes was romantic attraction).

Is part of The Party.

Suzie Bingham (she/fae).

Genderfae, Omnisexual and Monoflexible.

Dating Dustin. In a wavership with El.

Will Byers (he/him).

Cis boy gnc, Gay (canon) demirose and Mesoamorous.

Dating Mike. In a simulship with Lucas.

Is part of The Party.

Other hcs

The teens/young adults

[pinkeoni]

Hi as someone who’s been in the Byler/ST fandom since 2019 THANK U for your posts regarding gnc Will. The shift in the Byler fandom & the perception of Mike and Will changed DRASTICALLY after st4 and it was so jarring to see. I kind’ve fell out of ST fandom for a while after st4, now I’m coming back and I’m so confused at the characterization of these two. It’s been well established in the show that Will IS gnc & it’s an important part of his character. A big part of Mike’s character is the performance of heteronormativity & masculinity. It is now difficult to even find fanfics that aren’t OOC. I 100% support people having headcanons & seeing themselves in characters. But I’ll be honest, I have no idea where this characterization came from and I genuinely feel like I’m in a completely different fandom sometimes.

Aw, thanks anon. I've been a fan of the show since 2016, but wasn't actively in the fandom until 2022 so I wasn't sure what people's perception of the characters were like back then.

I'm definitely not the first nor the last person to discuss Will being gnc, a lot of the posts I make are me adding onto conversations that have been taking place since this mischaracterization of him began.

If you want a better idea of where this characterization comes from, then I would suggest reading this post.

[mikesbasementbeets]

straight up though, being gay is literally a form of gender non-conformity. will, as a child as young as 12 (but as hinted in the show, even younger than that), reads to the adults around him as gay.

if you don't think he is gnc just on that level alone you do not understand will byers or the show or gender nonconformity in general. Please.............