#genuinely mike and el have the same dynamic karen and ted have

[hellinhawkins]

other than being poor writing and make no sense byler not being endgame would be crazy because I cannot imagine them sitting in the writer’s room creating Will’s character and deciding that he’d repeatedly suffer only to sacrifice pieces of himself to keep his best friend’s unhappy relationship going and end up with nothing in the end from mike. a “we should stay friends” and that’s it. so basically telling the audience that the most simplistic relationship is the better one (which contradicts everything they’ve been showing us since episode one, by the way)

[autistic-robin]

more dynamics i need to see in st5 for my mental wellbeing

1. el and dustin. that’s it send post. they were genuinely so sweet in season 1 and i miss their mad scientist/test subject vibe immensely. i know el and lucas are going to be paired up this season because of their shared connection (polyamory) to max, but i would love to see more scenes between dustin and el— maybe some lighthearted bonding over their matching leg injuries or daddy issues.

2. mike and robin. i don’t think you understand i need this like i need air. will has already had his gay awakening he doesn’t need a queer life coach!! mike on the other hand is out here in the TRENCHES. this man is down critically horrendously morifyingly BAD for will but is convinced el needs him and that will could never reciprocate his feelings. he needs robin’s gay intuition and advice if anyone does.

3. steve and jonathan. HELLO??? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HELLO???? i know this is pretty much guaranteed to happen in st5 because full-circle character development and hammering in themes and blah blah blah but i’m still gonna talk about it because listen. steve got his shit rocked by jonathan one (1) time and immediately decided “fuck my idiot friends” developed a moral conscience and SHOWED UP AT HIS HOUSE to apologize. he wasn’t there for nancy he had no idea nancy was there!!! he bought jonathan a new camera!!! he was so respectful of nancy and jon even when nancy dumped his ass a season later!!! yet we never get closure between him and jonathan or even a conversation and i’m PISSED about it. matt and ross duffer rectify this or else.

4. hopper and jonathan and will. you see the vision. these kids have never had a stable father figure who truly understands them (i love bob but he was only there for st2 and was sweet but naive) and everything they’ve been through. jonathan DESPERATELY needs to be de-parentified and released from the emotional burden of constantly putting will and joyce before his own needs and dreams, and hopper desperately needs to feel like he can protect his family instead of “cursing” them. will needs a loving father figure who supports his queer identity, and hopper only had a fire lit under him in s1 when joyce mentioned it could have been a hate crime. this is like textbook recipe for healing and closure for these characters.

5. joyce and karen? i just think it would be neat. we know karen’s getting more involved this season and i think she should get to be a little gay for joyce as a treat. we had crumbs of their dynamic in s1 and on a more sincere note i honestly think joyce could help give karen the courage to leave ted or demand better from him moving forward.

6. nancy and mike. if they don’t have a genuine conversation i’ll actually be fuming raging pulling my hair out. i get it i get that they’re both emotionally repressed but GOD i wish we had more moments with them talking about their trauma or empathizing with each other’s survivor’s guilt and crippling savior complexes. all the “max and mike are the same character in a different font” business is very valid and i agree madwheeler is like ten shots of espresso injected directly into the bloodstream HOWEVER, nancy and mike’s traumas and emotional issues are so so similar please let them talk about it!!!!

7. steve and robin???? please for the love of god????? literally what the fuck was happening in s4 they were NOT given enough screentime together. not cool. i want them BACK on their queerplatonic bullshit in s5, fully codependent disgustingly clingy like god intended.

8. jonathan and el. i just want them to be siblings together!!! we got a lot of willel sibling vibes in s4 and some sweet jon-and-will moments, but i would love for them to delve into jonathan and el’s dynamic. this girl is a big reason why will was saved in s1 and we just… never really see the byerses address that? jonathan has a lottt of self-blaming tendencies when it comes to will and i’d love for el to help remind him he isn’t responsible for protecting and saving his brother all the time. conversely, i’d love for jonathan to remind el that she’s just a kid and that the weight of the world shouldn’t be on her shoulders. they’re both really soft-spoken and sweet characters with hard veneers and i feel like they’d pair well together for more emotional scenes.

9. literally the entire byers-hopper family they are the heart and soul of the show and i will never forgive the duffer brothers for losing that in s3-4 in favor of expanding the scope of the story. i miss them.

10. steve and el. i would maim and kill for this dynamic actually. both of them are involved in love triangles and have arcs centered around independency and platonic/found familial love, and steve has his whole mom-of-the-group shtick that could be really endearing paired with el’s plucky weird-little-girl vibe. idk i just think they would be a cute team, maybe paired with dustin or lucas.

11. stoncy and robin. literally give me this team or give me death. i miss stoncy’s iconic end-of-season-1 monster-hunting trio dynamic SO MUCH i would give anything for them to go on a sidequest and really just hash it all out with each other. and robin could offer steve moral support and comic relief— while we’re on the subject i would also kill to see her and jonathan interact!! like they are so similar in that brooding-noncomformist way and i feel like they would either immediately gravitate toward each other based on values OR immediately clash due to their personality differences. jonathan is all quiet and avoidant and robin can be… A Lot (said with love) when she’s not masking like s3. i just think they’d be funny together.

12. this is devolving quickly so scott clarke and the party. no i will not elaborate. thank you for your time

[willthewise7]

Henry Creel and Patty Newby

As requested by many, I will be detailing in the form of a long analysis the relationship and, at first, the friendship that Henry and Patty had. Again, if you do not wish to have spoilers, please do not read on!

Firstly, Henry was misunderstood by his whole family. Alice said that it was "not Henry" that was in the house, just a random boy. Virginia was terrified of Henry, especially after the incident that occurred in Nevada that contributed to them moving to Hawkins for a fresh start. Finally, his father, Victor, was very oblivious to many different things and was generally absent. On his first day of school he was pretty much called weird and not listened to by any of his classmates. The only person who he connects with is Patty Newby.

They form an instant emotional bond with each other. You can feel the chemistry between the two of them. The dynamic has been likened by many to that of Mike and El when they first met. However, I do tend to disagree with this statement. Mainly, due to the fact that, Henry and Patty seemed to form an instant and deep emotional connection. They both were on the same wavelength. Patty is convinced that Henry is good and keeps reassuring him of that throughout the play. I'll get to his powers further on in this post.

After they first meet at school by the locker room, they form an instant bond. Henry talks about his Spyglass that he has and how he likes Superman. He even does the Superman pose and nerds out to that. Patty finds this funny and mentions how she loves Wonder Woman. They both bond over these topics. Before they leave the locker room they say an awkward goodbye and Henry walks off annoyed with himself that he made himself look weird and awkward in front of Patty.

The next time they meet is at a rehearsal for Joyce's play that she is organising. She is desperate to leave Hawkins and therefore she plans to do so through a scholarship. However, the play has to be successful for that to happen. Anyway, back to the story. As Patty is auditioning for the lead role and starts to sing, Henry jumps in out of nowhere and tries to help her gain confidence. He has a go at singing, not to an amazing ability, and everyone in the audience laughs at him. Again, you can see the bond as Henry is trying to help her and genuinely has feelings for her. They have further moments in the play where Henry helps her to calm down and sing, which leads us to the next scene they have together.

It's church day, where everyone goes and attends. The Creel family arrive and Henry hides in the backroom of the church. At the back he finds Patty doing the same thing. Patty is nervous to go out on stage and Henry tries to calm her down. They give confessions and Henry says how that he is not right and there is something wrong with him, he has some sort of power. Patty again tells Henry that he's good and maybe he can use his powers for good. Following that, Henry creates a vision for them both where the church turns into a dance. Patty has the lead role of singing and is adored by everyone who reacts warmly to her performance. During the vision Henry tries to put his arm around Patty to try and get closer to her, but Patty gets caught up in the positive chaos of the vision. Henry gives her confidence through his powers, demonstrating that he can use them for good purposes. He is not inherently bad.

They spend literally everyday together, they really have a strong bond. Not only was it romantic love, they had a true friendship. Their next crucial scene together was during a date that they had at Melvalds. This is where Henry reveals to Patty that he can read people's minds and see what they're really thinking. He tells Patty that Karen thinks Ted is an idiot and Ted is afraid of Karen. Also, that most of them in the place were pretending to like it, really they were bored. Patty is astonished by this and also laughs. Shortly after this, Patty and Henry share their first kiss together.

Unfortunately, the next part is where things start going downhill for their relationship. It's mainly all because of what was going on with the Mindflayer, plus everyone else not being accepting of them being together. When I say not being accepting, I don't mean due to it being a race issue. It was simply that they were not approved of being together by some. Particularly Brenner who wanted Henry for himself, he saw Patty as an obstacle to controlling Henry. After Henry broke out of the HNL, due to Virginia contacting Brenner to take him there, Brenner wanted to find him again. One way was through finding where Patty was as he knew Henry would go for her.

Anyways, let's get back to the story again. Patty convinces Henry to look for her biological mother and Henry is not keen. He knows this could go wrong if the Mindflayer possessed him. They meet up and go to Henry's attic to start the search her mother. Patty mentions how it is cold in the attic, which Henry says that he likes it cold, which is what Will says in Season 2. He manages to find her performing and singing. Patty is so happy to hear this news. However, like Henry feared, the Mindflayer managed to take him over whilst he was in the void looking for Patty's biological mother. Patty gets frightened when Henry tells her to leave so that she doesn't get hurt. Patty's father, Principal Newby, finds them in the attic. To give context to this, Victor Creel goes to speak to Mr. Newby after he mentions how he should know that Henry and Patty are dating. He therefore decides to come over as he is not happy with this. So Mr. Newby walks into the attic at the wrong time. He tries to get Patty away from Henry which leads to him being attacked and almost killed. He is lifted up into the air. Patty manages to encourage Henry to take back control and beat the Mindflayer by telling him she loves him. Henry manages to break through the barrier and tell her that he loves her too. This stops the situation and saves Patty's father. However, he suffered the consequences of the attack by falling through the attic floor when he was dropped, alongside being blinded and seriously injured from the fall.

When we see Mr. Newby lying on a hospital bed, he suddenly wakes up after being visited by Patty. He tells her that he was attacked by a monster and that he saw it. He goes on to describe how Henry saved him from the monster. He proceeds to draw an image of what the Mindflayer looks like, detailing the shape of a spider looking dark shadowy creature. He hands this drawing over to Patty.

After these events, this is when Virginia sends Henry away to the HNL with Brenner. Later on after Patty learns that Henry did in fact save her father, she returns to the Creel house to try and find Henry. She calls out for him and manages to communicate with him. Henry contacts her through the void and they both are able to speak to each other. Patty tries to convince him that he's still good and she believes in him. She encourages him to return home and to play alongside her, as they auditioned to do so, in Joyce's play. He commits to this and decides to return, leaving the HNL. He rejects Brenner's attempt to try and make him kill another man and leaves the lab. Brenner tries to stop him and suffers the consequences of nearly being killed.

Brenner has a significant influence over Virginia Creel during the play and provides her with medication throughout, in the form of tranquillisers. He convinces her that Henry needs help. He goes to Virginia after Henry breaks out of the lab and tells her that he escaped. Virginia is immediately worried that he is a threat. Brenner reassures her that he can control him but needs to find out where he could be. He suspects that someone is holding Henry back and asks Virginia about this and she tells him. Although before we get to this point, we need to mention the Creel massacre. This occurs before Henry sets off for the play and to see Patty. When he returns home, he reads his family's mind and sees that Virginia has been contacting Brenner and talking about how Henry has never been good and is willing to give him up for good. He does so through seeing her memories. During this moment, Henry is very angry which allows the Mindflayer to take over. During emotions of hate and fear, this is when he loses control. We can visually see Henry having some sort of fit inside his mind. On the stage of the play we see two versions of Henry to demonstrate that he is stuck in his own mind. Meanwhile, the Mindflayer is controlling his physical body and can be seen hovering over the room. After which, Virginia and Alice are killed. Henry then leaves for Hawkins High to see Patty, hoping to get there before Brenner finds him and her.

Before finding Patty, Henry runs into Joyce. who voices her suspicion that Victor is dangerous and was behind the animal killings in Hawkins. It could be argued therefore that this gave Henry the idea to frame his father. Before she explains who she is suspicious about, Henry is worried she is on to him. So the Mindflayer starts briefly coming through until she reveals that it's Victor. Due to this, Henry calms down and he takes back control.

Moving on now, Henry finds Patty on stage but is momentarily joined by Brenner. Brenner attempts to convince Henry that Patty is the thing that's holding him back from his true potential. Patty tries to convince Henry to not listen to what Brenner is saying to him. Brenner also tries convincing Patty that Henry is a killer and is dangerous, that he killed his family. Henry tries dismissing these claims but he starts to get mad and angry at Brenner. Brenner knows what he is doing and is trying to incite this anger to get him to cause a reaction. Brenner is so deranged that he wanted Henry to keep killing to get stronger powers. The Mindflayer therefore starts to takeover and Henry does his best to try and stop it. Unfortunately, it does not work and he loses control. Patty falls from the rafters after the Mindflayer forces him to push her.

Henry basically is now back at the HNL and appears to try and contact Patty through the void. This is where we then see a scene where Patty finds her mother. So she did survive, this is where it's unclear whether she tried to find Henry again or not. Maybe she can help end this story.

[deanismysavior]

Am I the only one who finds Mike's relationship with his family extremely weird? Like I know Karen seems to be a supportive mom in general, after all she was the one who said Mike can talk to her about anything in S1, then Mike hugged Karen after they found Will's ''dead body'' and he also hugged her again at the end of S3. Yeah Karen and Mike actually seem to have a normal relationship but it's not explicitly shown or focused on. She also doesn't know anything about the UD situation. Nancy doesn't seem to talk to her anyway. Ted is... Ted.

Nancy and Mike also have no relationship literally, despite them struggling with the same supernatural stuff all the time. When was the last time they really talked anyway?

People call Will a sad loner gay kid often times but Will at least has stronger ties with his family. We know his relationship with Joyce, and he has a strong bond with Jonathan even if Jonathan is dealing with his own stuff, we know both are there for each other and talk.

While Mike literally is disconnected from his family, Nancy included.

It comes off as weird because the writers ignore it all the time😅. Like why not include some genuine talks between Nancy and Mike at all, have them talk about their struggles or something? It's just really weird.

Mike literally has no one to talk to. He only opens up to Will but even then he doesn't exactly open up because he has other issues deep down.

Now it was just eye-opening for me when I wrote all those sentences because I realized what my problem with Mike's character is: Mike is an extremely closed-off character and we literally get to see nothing about his struggles. We only get to see it during the van scene where he voices his insecurities but that's it. Like.

Compare his character to other characters: We get to see El's whole struggle with finding herself, and we get to see Lucas's trying to get over bullying, we get to see Dustin's side albeit not that explicit, and Max has a whole arc dealing with d*pression, and Will is struggling with being gay and opening up about that. All of those are shown explicitly from each character's sides while we don't really get to see Mike's POV at all.

His character comes off as extremely disconnected. He is not naturally progressing in the narrative, it's like he is just pushed around by the narrative instead of having his own voice. I am not sure if that makes sense. Like Will had to push him to do something the whole season as well.

Mike's character feels so weird and disconnected and his dynamic and relationships with others just seem to be very underwhelming for me. And one of the main reasons is because he literally has no explicit voice in the narrative.

I actually think Mike and Nancy's relationship dynamic being so strained kind of makes sense. We're clued into the fact really early on that Mike and Nancy don't share a whole lot of common ground. We get introduced to Nancy's character when she slams the door in Dustin's face after he goes to offer her pizza. Dustin then kind of addresses that Nancy has been acting weird to Mike, and Mike's sort of like, "she's always been like that," and Dustin says "Not always" and brings up the time that Nancy dressed up as an elf for their campaign. And Mike says, "Yeah, like four years ago!" To me, this scene reads a lot like Mike felt like he lost that connection with his sister once she tried to grow up. The age gap between them sort of functions as a catalyst for creating this distance.

We also see in season 1 Ted saying, "Come on, Nancy with Mike?" when the people who are working with Brenner come to talk to them about how they believe Mike has been harboring El as a fugitive. Ted Wheeler is kind of known for his snide remarks, but he's generally pretty on the money with his implications, and he's implying here that Nancy and Mike really don't spend any kind of one-on-one time together anymore.

Now we know that Nancy and Mike both get involved with the Upside Down in different ways, Nancy through her relation to Barb and Mike with his relation to Will, and when they join forces here, they're kind of still not really on the same page because they don't know what's going on in one another's lives.

That's why when we get to this scene after the first big fight against the upside down, we get this expressing of a want for more closeness, but neither one of them are actually really ready to put in the work they need to to close that gap in their relationship.

In these scenes, Nancy kind of sets the precedent of lying in their relationship, and it's interesting because if you look at Mike's expression after Nancy tells him her relationship with Jonathan "isn't like that," it seems like Mike kind of goes, "Oh, okay," and takes what she says sort of at face value. So whether or not he's telling the truth about El here? I don't know. It reads as defensive, but in the same way as his "Pretty cool" line about El reads after he realizes he calls her pretty. The biggest empathy miss here though, I think, comes from Nancy.

Throughout the seasons, we can tell that they care about each other, but they don't have the type of relationship where they can really be open and honest, and if I'm honest, I think most of that comes from Nancy. She's older and she still sort of views Mike as her annoying little brother who needs protection. She sort of goes off on her own a lot, with both Steve and Jonathan, and doesn't make herself available to Mike in the same way that Jonathan does for Will. I think Nancy and Mike's dynamic is really meant to stand in stark contrast to Jonathan and Will's because Nancy and Mike grew up in a household where love was never properly expressed, so showing that kind of familial affection doesn't come naturally to them.

But I'm going to give a hot take and say that Nancy is more closed off than Mike is. Because initially, Mike is not all that closed off. He teases Nancy, tries to pour syrup on her eggs, and joke around with her, which for him, is an attempt to express closeness and sibling bonding, but Nancy kind of just shuts Mike's behaviors down.

And even though they do get somewhat closer, Nancy continues to do this even into season 4. Mike once again reaches out to see if she'll join his campaign and she gives him the most annoyed look ever. We know she used to be open to participating in DnD, but she isn't anymore. And I think it's honestly a little heartbreaking because Nancy is the FIRST person Mike thinks of when Eddie tells him he needs a sub for Lucas, because unlike Dustin, Mike doesn't really have close relationships outside of the party, but you can tell he wants to be closer to Nancy.

When Mike gets to high school, we know he's still mercilessly bullied, and this could have been an opportunity for Nancy to take him under her wing or defend him more, but she really doesn't seem to do this. Nancy has elevated her status in high school, she's sought after, but Mike still maintains his loser status, and while Nancy does love and care about Mike, she doesn't really go out of her way to make him feel welcome or accepted. It actually creates a really interesting contrast between how Nancy and Mike interact as siblings where Nancy kind of fails to support Mike, and Will and El as siblings, where Will steps in and is constantly looking out for El's best interest, even at the detriment of his own reputation.

So while Mike is more closed off in his relationships than the other party members, I don't really feel like it's from a lack of his trying to be closer, it's more because Mike has fallen into a pattern of expecting his feelings and expressions to be shut down. We see this in his relationships with Nancy, Ted, and El, and I think though Lucas and Dustin are there for him, they don't always fully understand what Mike wants or needs and are more quick to dismiss his behaviors and write him off as acting like a douche than to check in on him. The only people who have ever really held space for Mike are his mom and Will, and I think, as a teenage boy growing up, it's a lot easier to talk to your friend about what you're going through than your mom, especially in a household where expressions of love aren't normalized.

I think though, that Nancy and Mike have both made huge strides this season in their willingness to open up to others, Mike with Will, and Nancy with Robin, surprisingly, so I think that when Nancy and Mike are together in season 5, we may see them actually become more vulnerable with one another and finally have more of the sibling dynamic I think they've both secretly wanted the whole time.

[kaypeace21]

I feel like you’re the right person to tell this to, but Mileven makes me REALLY uncomfortable. I’m an adult fan (I watch the show mostly for Winona Ryder) and I felt really gross watching the scenes of them making out, knowing that adults wrote those scenes and shot them, and how many people would’ve been there during shooting. Please tell me I’m not alone.

I agree that it makes me feel uncomfortable and gross, too. But, I actually think the Duffers wanted you to feel uncomfortable (and I think mileven was portrayed as ‘off’ and ‘too much’ for that reason).  Think about it, when it comes to almost all their other cannon couples- they use kisses sparingly. Jancy has only kissed, romantically 3x (2 of those times were simple kisses- not full blown make-outs), and their first kiss (and only make-out) was quickly obscured as they closed the door.

(x)

Jopper has never kissed, and lumax had an innocent kid-kiss once (and even when back together in s3, they never kissed).

The duffers are sparing with kiss- scenes, unless they are portraying a relationship that won’t work.Most of the relationships that are cannon (with the exception of mileven) focus almost completely on how they communicate with one another- and relationships that lack this (spend most of their time just making-out).  What’s the ship that has had the most kiss scenes in the whole series? In the bathroom, library, bedroom(s), garage, in a car, multiple places at school (and has probably had at least 6-7 kiss scenes or more - and  who even made out on a bed to corny romance music just like mileven (pre-s3?)- Stancy.  Heck, we even see Nancy lose her v**ginity to Steve- but didn’t see Jancy do-it. Because we aren’t supposed to focus on their physical relationship but their emotional one.

Stancy and mileven have had alot of parallels. The wheelers (Nancy and Karen) already made a habit of pretending they’re in love with people- because that relationship is what is deemed the most socially acceptable. Nancy rebelling with the cool-jock (Steve), trying to not be like her parents. And Karen with Ted. Nancy even says in s1 “I don’t think my parents ever loved each other. My mom was young. My dad was older… but he had a cushy job, money, came from a good family. So they bought a house at the end of the cul de sac and started their nuclear family”. Ted  & Steve were paralleled to each other, having them both eat chicken as their partners  (Karen/Nancy) stormed off upset (and they did nothing). And El was paralleled to Ted by sitting in Ted’s laz-boy chair. And Dustin even refers to mileven as “bullshit” just like Nancy described Stancy as “bullshit”.  

(x)

So to reiterate , Mike is doing the same thing as Nancy & Karen- being with someone they don’t love. And only staying with them becuause they are the more socially acceptable/’correct’ option…because El’s a girl (unlike Will). 

Also, the fact that Murray’s line to Nancy sounds more queer coded than applicable to Nancy - “ Afraid that if you’d accept yourself for who you really are (cough queer-subtext), and retreated back to… name, name? Steve. Steve! we like Steve (El) but we don’t love Steve (El).”

So, the over-top kisses were done as yet another parallel. And again s2 made fun of (kids who are) mileven shippers ( I’ll talk about that later). 

But , S3 was the Duffers criticizing the adult mileven shippers- who are obsessed with mileven kissing. 

Like don’t get me wrong there’s some weird byler shippers (but the majority of byler shippers focus on the emotional not physical part of their relationship).

Think about it. Look how they framed this scene of mileven kissing- making us the viewer feel like a peeping-tom, watching them through the crack in the door. Then El sees the viewer and subsequently gasps and slams the door in front of our faces. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE! 

The Duffers and their crew (like good directors) were manipulating your emotions- without you realizing how or why. They were also calling-out the adult-mileven shippers (not all of them but the ones) who are obsessed with their kiss scenes - creepy AF. The duffers never even wrote for mileven to kiss in s2- but Millie said they “had to for the fans”. And so the Duffers conceded and put in a song about a bad-breakup during the mileven kiss - and their backup-song-choice was even about a divorce. XD

So the 2 mileven make-out scenes were supposed to make you uncomfortable- because not only are they kids (who are making out on a bed , but the way they were framed).

So that 3rd and last kiss. Was 100% supposed to make you uncomfortable (but just for a different reason).

Like it or not Mike either forgot that he said he “loved her”. Or just LIED to El (despite this being the reason they broke up in the first place)- and pretends he didn’t confess to her . He  has never said “ I love you’, once to her face! He even tries to take the words back (before the kiss) and says about the prior love confession “ Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…”  and starts to scratch his head and says everything he said at the cabin was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t really remember. What did I say exactly?”

  And , after that discussion, they frame El (before she says “I love you”), strangely. They make El look large and imposing, as she approaches the motionless Mike (who feels both physically & emotionally cornered) .You the viewer, subconsciously are feeling claustrophobic/trapped/and stuck along with Mike. Which is why you are so uncomfortable watching this scene, unfold.

(x)

When she says “I love you”, he looks genuinely confused- or just uncomfortable ( his eyebrows are still scrunched-up).

And then… cue the most awkward kiss in the history as Mike doesn’t kiss her back and keeps his eyes open the whole time… it’s just weird/awkward (sorry).

(x) 

We even see El’s reaction , after the kiss (happy, smiling and giddy). But then we blur the screen to see Mike’s opposing expression. He looks confused, bewildered and even furrows his brows again.

And In s2 they insulted the young-girls who are obsessed with mileven (since they can frankly,  be the most toxic of the milevens). 

In the Montauk pitch (later named Stranger things) they describe the Mike and El dynamic by saying “ If Mike is the Eliot of our show,Eleven is our Et.” (AKA they’re from different planets)

And In s2 , Erica  is forcing He-man and barbie to make out. Lucas angrily separates the two. And then this discussion happens.

Erica: “Hey , They’re in love!”

Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow): “No, actually, they’re not. They don’t even exist on the same planet.”

And again the Duffers have described El in multiple interviews as “similar to ET”, and “like an alien” (even after s3). And in s1, they alluded to El being like “an alien from another planet”  by comparing her to ET (with the Reese’s pieces vs eggos moments,  the bike-scene, and the makeover). 

S3 portrayed mileven as toxic in a myriad of ways. And these other examples, might be stretches, but Mike saying to Max in s2  “How can I hate you, I don’t know you.” could also be a ‘dig’ at mileven.(Because: he knew Max for a week, just as long as El- so how could he hate or love either of them?)

And Mike saying to Dustin incredulously “ You have a bond? Just cause he likes nougat (eggos)?” Could be another subtle jab.

Especially since it’s cannon Mike isn’t the biggest fan of eggos to begin with.

Don’t even get me started at how much the st writing staff- makes fun of mileven - more details about it here.  But just one example is when the ‘Stranger writers’ ( the official account of the ST writing staff ) got into a huge text-chain with ‘Stranger Things’ (the official account of the show) where they just low-key dragged mileven together.

Mileven was never meant to be end game-they planned for her to die in season 1 (which I’m glad didn’t happen). But, regardless, it was always supposed to be a simple fleeting crush … but the viewers decided to take it way too seriously. After s3, the Duffers reiterate that mileven is just that.

 And the Duffers are smart guys, I bet they’re are 100% aware of how toxic the milevens are to bylers (and how they can also be creepy and harass Finn). Not to mention, as writers, who put so much effort into the show- having people hyper-fixate on mileven (which they don’t even like), instead of the plot must drive them insane.Especially when those shippers can be toxic, homophobic, and entitled. The fact people don’t realize the Duffers hate mileven- is honestly hilarious XD.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Mike and Eleven are an unhealthy couple, and other ST relationship notes

Relationships have been shown to be a big part of Stranger Things from the beginning. In Season 1, we’re treated to The Party’s unique dynamic, Nancy’s rocky romance with Steve, Joyce’s interactions with her ex-husband, and Johnathan and Will’s brotherly bonding. We are also introduced to Eleven, who more or less instantly bonds with Mike. These relationships allow us to get to know the characters in a more intimate way, and help drive the narrative. In Season 2, we get deeper into these relationships and also see new ones bloom. We witness the special bond that Mike and Will share, the abusive dynamic of the Hargrove household, Dustin and Lucas spar over Max while she adapts to being adopted by a group of nerds, Steve and Nancy’s relationship fails and Johnathan and Nancy’s begins, and even Karen get frustrated over her boring rut of a marriage. We also see Mike, at least early on in the season, desperately reach out to Eleven, and it’s indicated he’s been doing this for just shy of a year (353 days I believe).  In Season 3, a heavy-handed theme is “we don’t understand each other.” This is displayed prominently by multiple relationships. It’s most obvious with Johnathan and Nancy, where I believe it was directly stated. Nancy feels he doesn’t believe in her and her journalistic hunches, while he feels she isn’t considering how badly he needs that internship since he lacks her familial resources. Joyce and Hopper’s relationship goes on a roller coaster stemming from Hopper seeing Joyce as playing around with him as he tries his best to open his heart again, but Joyce still has grief over Bob and understandable paranoia about the lab holding her back. Max and Lucas seem ok, showing some playful banter, but we’re also told they’ve broken up five times. Seeing as how they’ve only been together for about 7-8 months or so. That’s a sign of a lack of understanding, but sadly we don’t get much more out of Lucas this season. Karen is tempted by Billy to bring some excitement into her life, though Ted is shown to be rather content with his boring family life. We’re also treated to the heartwarming friendship of Steve and Robin, which is teased as a romance through yet another misunderstanding. This brings me to the crux of this post (finally), and that is Mike, and his horrible (or horribly written) relationships in Season 3. I can totally buy his attachment to Eleven. She helps him find Will in Season 1, and is traumatized by her disappearance (and apparent death) during the final battle with the Demogorgon. It’s completely understandable that he’d be affected by that, possibly feeling guilty and responsible, and desperate for her safe return. It’s totally realistic for a 12-year-old to develop a crush on a girl in a short amount of time such as the week he knew her. It’s unbelievably realistic for him to be immensely happy and relieved when she comes back in Season 2, safe and sound. It’s totally in-character for him to be a nervous wreck when she goes to close the gate. At no point, however, does this have the appearance of a romantic relationship, at least not a true and healthy one.

In Season 3, however, he is completely obsessed with her. It’s revealed by Lucas that he’s been neglecting his friends. He’s been seeing her every day, at least since summer started, and there are implications that Eleven primarily only sees Mike (Max is shocked to see her, we see no interactions between El and the others, she’s still not allowed to be out in public, etc.). This girl has had no opportunity for social or emotional growth in the roughly year and a half since she’s been out of the lab. Her question to Max (”How do I know if I like something?” or something along those lines) should be jarring. She’s never considered anything for herself. Pre-dumping, she and Mike are shown basically just making out. There’s no conversation, no getting to know each other, no simply enjoying each other’s company. The only time we see them with the others, Mike and El very quickly leave, which the others know means they want to make out. El is supposed to be friends with them too, but she seems equally obsessed with this relationship. It’s been months since the Snow Ball, they should be out of the honeymoon phase even if Mike’s opportunities to see her during the school year were limited.  So, unpopular opinion, Mike and El share an unhealthy relationship. He’s more annoyed than upset when she dumps him, while El has a blast hanging out with Max. It’s nice to see her grow with this, but she’s quite honestly depicted as being better off without Mike as a boyfriend. I’m not saying they couldn’t grow into a better couple, but we see nothing like that in this season. They make up in the hospital, and Mike awkwardly tries to talk about feelings in the grocery store, but they just aren’t hearing each other. They don’t understand each other. They still don’t at the end, to be honest. While many people seem to think they rekindle their relationship before the Byers’ move, Mike seems legit confused. He stands there, stock still, as El kisses him. He doesn’t kiss back, he doesn’t close his eyes, he doesn’t put his arms around her, he doesn’t return her “I love you”, and, as she walks off, he doesn’t get a goofy grin, a sad smile, or a hopeful look on his face. He stands there, confused, as if that kiss was unexpected and he doesn’t know how to feel about it. That wasn’t a boy who had been going out with this girl for the past three months post-Starcourt. If they were meant to be seen as a happy couple, tragically being torn apart, then the writers did a terrible job of it. It’s almost too obvious that we’re supposed to compare this to Mike’s strained relationship with Will, though at the same time it’s like we’re meant to forget all of that. There’s curiously no acknowledgement to any of the bonding they shared in Season 2, even through flashbacks. Will is portrayed as being upset at the slightest sign of Mike and El’s romance. He doesn’t show frustration with Max or Lucas, and he’s amused at the prospect of helping Dustin contact his camp girlfriend. If this wasn’t intentional, then it’s either poor acting or poor writing. Both Mike and Will become single-minded, Mike towards El, and Will towards D&D. There’s many possible explanations (besides the aforementioned bad writing) that could explain Will’s change of character, but that’s a post for another time, if people are interested. Will reaches his breaking point in a conversation that reads more like a breakup than anything else. Again, though, it’s clear they don’t understand each other. This is where the “Is Will gay?” speculation hits a crescendo, as he angrily states it’s not his fault Will doesn’t like girls. Will is...devastated, shocked, terrified? It’s hard to nail down. Mike is immediately remorseful, though his apology is severely lacking. Will’s parting words of “I guess I did. I really did.” again seem more like a breakup. I’d like to go on more, but besides Mike tracking Will down in the rain (not unsignificant), we see little between them until the goodbyes. Their scene is shorter than Mike and El’s, but significant in that it’s the only goodbye Will is shown having (apart from all the hugging). They speak in code again, with Mike worried Will may replace him, and Will reassuring Mike that could never happen. It’s worth mentioning that the smile Mike shows in this scene is the most genuine we see all season from him.  I’m not sure what to think about it all. Mike and Will’s relationship is somehow portrayed as stronger and deeper that Mike and El’s, but simultaneously less significant. It makes more sense for Mike to be closer to Will than El, and it’s curious that he and El are never shown trying to get to know each other. My ultimate conclusion, drawing on personal experience and someone with degrees in psychology and counseling, is that Mike and El are bad for each other, at least based on how they’ve been depicted thus far. They’re shown to be better outside of their relationship.  Ultimately, Mike lost both of these relationships at the end. While we know the three of them will meet again, they simply have the hope of visits and calls. Mike is left visibly upset as the Byers family drives off, but it’s ambiguous as to whether Will or El leaving upsets him more. I don’t think he knows the answer to that either. As he enters his mother’s embrace, he appears in a state of shock. This scene parallels him being comforted in season 1 when Will’s fake body was pulled from the water, even going so far as to include the same song. It’s possible he’s coming to a realization involving Will, which could explain the shock. I think the simplest explanation, though, is that we’re supposed to be as confused as Mike as to what all this means. Mike starting to consider that Will is more than just his best friend would be a breath of fresh air for a story like this, but I doubt it.  If you made it this far, let me know if you’d like more posts from me. I have thoughts on the effects of trauma on the characters, theories for season 4, and general opinions about seasons 1-3.