#fuck the duffers 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

[bylertruther]

random thought, but i feel like putting all of the blame on karen for the fact tht mike doesn't open up to her is a little ...................... (insert vague hand motion here bc i can't think of a fitting, not-childish eloquent word) ????

yes she's the parent and yes she does have to make the effort to create an environment where he feels welcome to share and talk to her, but karen cannot force mike to open up. mike doesn't respond well to his parents being overbearing and honestly he doesn't react well to ANYONE coming at him head-on no matter how close they are to him.

mike needs to come to people on his own terms when he's ready and collected himself. and karen knows that! she literally says that to ted when ted offers to go talk to him in s1 because they know will's death and disappearance is hard on him. and no i don't think they should've taken away his toys aka doled out a punishment when mike wasn't cooperating in s2, because that's simply Not how you handle such a situation, but they did it because they thought well if us being "soft" isn't working then maybe us putting our foot down will get through to him. it's not like they did it bc they thought to themselves "lmao fuck that guy 🖕".

and even though mike doesn't seek support through verbal means like nancy does, he does seek comfort from her through physical affection! and karen does give it to him! whenever he feels like he's lost will, he goes to her and breaks down in her arms and she drops everything to go hold him.

the point is that when mike does go to her, she's there. they all care about and love each other in that family, including ted. karen and ted are not plot-involved parents like joyce and hopper are, and we're not going to get a deep dive into any of the other families unless it's relevant to the plot. ... as we've literally already seen before?

and ted is the way he is because he's written as the kind of father that spends all day at work to provide for his family and gets home and just wants to watch tv and eat dinner and go to sleep and repeat that ad nauseam for the rest of his life bc tht's just what you do and you only have so much energy (smth smth silly little play). i'm not saying he's father of the year and no one should ever comment on his involvement with his kids, but... that's just his role to play in this story.

he's clueless abt the crazy shit that goes down in hawkins the same way that everyone else is clueless abt it but that doesn't make him a bad guy lol. there's purposeful juxtaposition of him chillin' watching the news cover everything up while joyce and hopper and the kids are out there losing their minds almost dying fighting monsters saving the world etc etc. it's supposed to be comical. he lives here and he has no idea what's really happening, unlike us and the central characters of the show.

not every family has to look or act like the byers or sinclair family to be Good. you can try your best to get someone to talk to you, but they're not going to do it if they don't want to. mike is a hothead that doesn't often share or even totally understand what he's feeling, and if he does, he rarely opens up all the way. he still keeps certain things to himself and only reveals just enough to achieve his goals. it's mainly when he's apologizing over something big that he manages to be open, and that isn't even something that happens often or outside of a situation that necessitates it.

and the whole "not knowing exactly where your kids are, but knowing they're with their friends somewhere and that they'll be home later tonight" isn't a sign of abuse or that they don't care. that's what life was like before the technology that we have now, and that level of freedom was the POINT. it's a big part of WHY the duffers chose the eighties. such a story wouldn't work with our current technology. that isn't even an experience exclusive to those that are 30+ or whatever. i'm in my twenties and i remember my childhood being like that.

like. i don't think it's as black and white of an issue as some people suggest. the wheelers haven't been perfect parents, but they're not malicious and they do love their children, even if they clearly don't always understand them. saying that karen and ted don't care about or love their children and that they're on the same level of neglect as lonnie is just... i mean. what?

[talesfrom-theupsidedown]

They really do see Billy as someone just shy of being a murderer.

Loathsome? Evil???? Fuck you.

What the fuck.

You can’t have Billy anymore, Duffle Bags.

HE’S OURS NOW. 😤😡🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻

[thequarry28]

the duffer brothers really gave us an amazing bisexual character who loves metal music and playing dnd, also who literally just wanted to graduate and took him away from us just so they can just fucking kill off a character like they do every season, fuck them, im tired

i might not watch season 5 just to be petty for them killling off eddie 🙃🖕

[every-dayiwakeup]

You may have seen this recent addition in the Billy tag but oh my goodness people have no brain cells anymore. Here’s just a part of the post

I couldn’t fit all of the buffoonery in this post in one screenshot and it took me so much self control to just block the user and not leave a comment on their grammar or their logic.

Like, dang, ignoring that Jason literally shot at and beat Lucas up, reducing Billy to nothing more than an asshole racist, AND saying that Jason was a good boyfriend when Chrissy felt like she couldn’t even talk to him about her problems?

Yeah, I've seen it 😃🤌

It's all over, my friend 😑

I was hoping after that scene with Jason and Lucas, perhaps antis would give it a rest... but then I started seeing Jason apologists pop up.

Now, Jason is a fictional character, like Billy. If people want to... like him... they can. What really upsets me is their hypocrisy, and the unwillingness to acknowledge that the Duffers' shitty writing also applies to the characters they just love to hate.

If you want to like Jason, you can. But despite the tiktok edits, love didn't make him crazy. He wanted an excuse to go after Eddie, and I'm certain he would have gathered up a mob for he and Lucas even if Chrissy was alive.

I'm glad you brought up the fact that they're saying Jason is a "good boyfriend". Yeah, he's so great that he doesn't notice something is off about her. What he cares about is that Eddie (someone he hates) was who she chose to confide in.

I think Chrissy was afraid of Jason, and I say this because Jason has a vendetta against "freaks", and she doesn't want anyone to know about her visions because she doesn't want to be another "freak" in Hawkins.

No hate to Jason's actor, he did great. But Jason Carver is worse than Billy. I'm actually disturbed about how antis aren't using critical thinking.

They're so used to hating Billy, that it's a learned thing, and as you mentioned they clearly lack the brain capacity to unlearn that behavior.

Jason scares me more than Billy ever could- because we don't see Billy gathering up a fucking mob to kill people. We don't see Billy unleashing the basketball team on Erica and Lucas.

Jason's behavior is eerily similar to that of racist extremists and right wing movements, and for people to ignore the fact that what Jason was ordering Lucas to do is straight out of a fucking cop's mouth mind boggling.

I've seen enough dashcam videos of racist cops on the news that when he pulled out that gun and started talking I forgot this was a Sci fi show.

My point is, Jason felt real for a whole another reason than Billy did.

The Billy Hargroves of this world don't scare me. It's the Jason Carvers and the Neil Hargroves that do. And people that go on rants about hating a teenage abuse victim with no proper grammar.

Antis can't make this connection because the Duffers aren't able to either. They are as smart as their audience. They wouldn't have thought of making Robin gay without Maya. They wouldn't have thought of Billy being abused without Dacre. That brings me to my next point; THEY DON'T THINK.

Stranger Things is not as complex as they think it is. Notice how complex, real characters with any hint of a troubled life are shown (Billy, Eddie, Chrissy etc) they're killed off. Because the Duffers cannot write complex characters. And by extension they cannot write social issues.

Racism is not an aesthetic. If you bring up even a hint of it, you cannot gloss over its ugly effects. Once the Duffers attempted to bring social issues into a Sci fi story, they could have gone into depth about it. But like I said, this is a Sci fi story. And it was never supposed to feel real. If that was their intention? They failed.

I related to characters like Billy and Max more than I did El, and not because El has powers. Because Billy and Max (and their sibling dynamic) brought a new kind of darkness to the show that the creators didn't know how to handle- reality.

In a show about monsters and kids with special powers, Billy and Max were among the only characters who were more than stereotypes. They had real issues, and as I mentioned, the Duffers gloss over social issues.

The difference between them and say, Stephen King? For one, King can write and address social issues and still scare the pants off of readers. Because reality is scarier than any fictional monster. Plus he didn't try to humanize characters like Pennywise. He actually spent more time on developing his main characters, and he didn't gloss over their trauma.

In all seriousness, I blame the antis' lack of critical thinking on the Duffers. They backtrack everything. They wanted Steve to SA someone. They wanted Billy to say the n word. But if this had happened... I still wouldn't trust the Duffers to know how to handle either.

I love how fans are just now realizing how shitty the writing is- but it's not just because of Byler or Stancy. Apply the same logic you use on Eddie and use it on Billy. These characters are only amazing because of the actors, and they need to realize that.

Where was this defense of Dacre when he was being harassed online for playing Billy? The creators (and I use that term loosely) just sat back and let him take the blame for a character they only wrote to be Henry Bowers 2.0.

They wanted Dacre (as Billy) to say a slur, and he didn't. The writers wanted Billy to be racist so that he could be hated. They wanted him to spice up the story line, and further Max's character (which they failed).

This is a knock off of Stephen Kings method: that only irredeemable characters are racist or homophobic. He tells readers from the get go what characters to root for by doing that.

Plus reducing Billy to what the writers wanted him to be? They really should appreciate Dacre's push to make him more.

Also good for you, because self control is something I myself struggle with when I see this bullshit from antis. You're better than I am. I personally hate it when someone not only rants with no sense but bad grammar 😭

[novaninja]

⚠️TW: sensitive topics, beware

honestly, it’s so fucking sick what they did to max’s character.

or frankly to anyone that’s been treated unjustly in the show.

to take someone that has been broken since she was a kid and show her love, lower her defenses only to then break her over and over again is a new fucking low.

this entire season the duffer brothers have set a very clear precedent that i’m sure you’ve noticed.

- if you are different in any way, suffering from any past trauma or go to a therapist for whatever reason, you are unworthy.

- if you do not belong, you are unworthy.

- if you decide to save the world, because you are the only one willing to do so, you are unworthy.

to take s*icidal characters just to make them run for their lives like pigs running for carrots on sticks only to brutally snap their bones is such a bullshit thing to do.

it’s like they’re presenting us with this hope that all of these characters that we relate to in some way can actually make it out alive and happy only to crush all of our dreams with an iron fist.

look, i get it, they couldn’t get away with it forever.

but they were also the only ones that ever really fought for it.

eddie always saw himself as a cowardly guy. that’s the only reason he gave himself up. because he thought that if he was ever gonna be brave, it was gonna be saving others. he knew that everybody outside of their little group hated him, so he also lost a little will to live. he thought that he was better off as sacrifice than as living.

max had been continuously pushed to her limits emotionally, barely finding time to find the courage to talk about it when she couldn’t even catch her breath before the next big thing. it was just her luck that it was always after her blood.

to set such a character as the ultimate sacrifice is so emotionally brutal, and to just ignore her and all the other’s death with a cheap cutscene is lazy.

fuck you duffer brothers 🖕🖕

[every-dayiwakeup]

No because people literally forget that Steve was way worse than Billy (calling Jonathan a slur and nancy a slut) and he was forgiven straight away...

This literally just showed up in my inbox. Tumblr I'm in your walls.

You're definitely right! I've actually talked in passing with Steve stans, about this, and they tell me that "he developed in season 2", or funnily enough, most either don't recall season 1, they ignore it, or they haven't even watched it.

Which baffles my mind. They openly admit this, and then they proceed to talk shit about Billy.

This show is very clear about who it wants you to root for. Full offense, I could care less about the Wheelers.

Poor writing, and to get away with it for so long, is a crime.

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but Steve never fully developed. He never apologized to Jonathan or Nancy. Sure, there was the bathroom scene with Robin. But Robin was a new character. Jonathan and Nancy were in season 1 with Steve. That's on the writers. I'll add it to the tab.

Billy actually apologized, and he was literally fucking dying. Honestly, though, I think it's odd that he's the only one getting shit on, that he should apologize and all that... but he's one of the only characters who actually apologized! He would've apologized to others if he had fucking survived.

Antis go from "he needs to be held accountable" to "I'm glad he's dead". Uh... how can he be held accountable for anything if he's dead?

Lmao and it's always the same person going from point A to point so far reaching you'll break an arm.

Billy didn't use a single fucking slur. Man, fuck this fandom (except for my harringrove, mungrove, harringroveson, and billy community, I love you so much).

As an aside, in my opinion, he had the least to apologize for out of all the characters (it says a lot that he did apologize). I said what I said.

[every-dayiwakeup]

It's apparently too much to ask for consistency 😭

So, about max and her monologue about billy, it's not that I dont believe max could feel such a way or that it doesnt make sense (honestly I would be a liar if I said I haven't also wished my shitty brother dead before) but it also feels a little off to me considering how their relationship was presented in s3.

At first I thought maybe i had misinterpreted it, maybe max and billy really did hate each other right up until the moment of his death. But then i remembered this interview with sadie sink from 2019 where she spoke about max and billy going into s3

I didnt expect them to be best friends or even particulary close with each other (and I had a strong feeling billy was gonna die anyway) but I remember feeling hopeful when I read this interview, hopeful that we'd at least get to see a different side to their relationship, and I was massively disappointed when s3 barely focused on them at all.

But, the small glimpses that we did see proved that they were in a different place than they had been in s2

When max talked to el about billy she spoke in a lighthearted manner, she wasnt resentful, she made jokes, she talked about him like he was just her annoying gross older brother who liked to walk around without a shirt on and bring girls home to make 'happy screams'

And then, of course, theres the sauna test. She was visibly distressed upon seeing Billy in that state. She was in pain. She started crying. She said, "it's okay... i believe you... we're going to figure this out together okay" like she actually wanted to help him, save him...

And thats why it feels weird to me. Not because feelings are complicated and that a few peaceful months between them dont erase everything he put her through, but because she apparently went from we'll figure this out together to I dont know if he deserved to be saved in the space of three days.

And when I say it feels weird, I think what I mean is ffs a little consistency would be nice

[every-dayiwakeup]

Hiiii!

I have a question cause I'm really struggling with it, like, how the hell do you get round the racist remark(s) Billy made?

It seems to be the ONE major hang up that people have about him, ans the scene where he tries to hit the kids with his car...Like, I get he was an asshole, so was Steve though, but everyone always comes back to 'Steve redeemed himself with Robin' yet they never want to recognise the shitty wrottong with Billy 😩

Hey ❤️

You're asking good questions, and I'm glad you asked!

First of all, let's look at what Billy saw; his sister was upset, and Lucas was with her. Billy obviously couldn't take Max home in tears. Plus the remark, as you said... "there's certain people you need to stay away from" or something like that, it's incredibly vague- especially if there were racist undertones.

How can you be casual in adding racism in your storyline? So vague about it, like it's an extra pizza topping?

I'm assuming the other remarks you're referring to are "you are so dead sinclair" "so dead" "he has a name now?" (I genuinely think he was trying to make conversation with Max, as well as getting a clue as to where she might run off to, which makes his job easier). "Well well well, Lucas Sinclair. What a surprise."

Okay but let's look into this. First of all, while I agree that it does look bad, especially when Billy pushed Lucas into a bookshelf, try to look at it through Billy's eyes:

Lucas is the boy he keeps seeing around his sister (his responsibility).

Billy saw Lucas around Max and he also saw that she was upset. In his own way, he acknowledged that he did indeed care for her.

They're in an entirely new setting, and Billy has babysitting duties (because Neil and Susan often go out late and don't return to "relieve" Billy of those "duties). If anything happens to Max, he gets punished.

Max is in a stranger's house at night, with an eighteen year old boy who has a reputation as a womanizer, and a bunch of young boys- one of which he's seen make her upset.

Steve lied to Billy on top of that, so yeah, my alarm bells would be going off too! Especially knowing my father would kick my ass after finding out my little sister was there, and I was supposed to be watching her.

When Billy enters the Byers house, he doesn't attack Lucas. He just addresses him, and then goes straight to Max. He says "I thought I told you to stay away from him". And Max's response is to tell him to go away. He cannot go away, because Neil would never forgive him for leaving her there. Max doesn't explain anything to him. Billy is still in the dark.

It's only when Max disobeys him, that Billy pulls Neil Hargrove's words out of his wazoo. It could be because the only parenting Billy is used to is instilling fear into a child. Maybe it's the only way Max listens, and it was probably the only thing that made Billy listen when he was her age. And by the way, the parents Max has are really shitty for putting their responsibilities on a seventeen year old! But anyway.

"I break things" and then he pushes Lucas into a bookshelf. Now what led to that, as I mentioned above, is important for context. If he was racist, the only reason he needs to dislike Lucas is obvious. But why didn't he just go straight for him when he came into the house?

It's not a stretch to say Neil was racist, and he probably fed bullshit ideals to his son. But if that were the case, then Billy obviously doesn't believe in those ideals. Plus it's interesting to me how for every "racism-coded" scene with Billy, there is a context that people refuse to acknowledge.

"Since Maxine won't listen to me, maybe you will. Stay away from her. Stay away from her! You hear me?" Then Lucas kicks him in the crotch. Billy stumbles back, and that's when he says, "you are so dead sinclair! You're dead." But he doesn't make any movement towards Lucas. Empty threats. He makes no attempt to go near Lucas.

Steve punches Billy, and Billy goes into fight or flight mode. Also the kids were chanting to "kill him", so that just made shit worse. Again, if it were me, I would've probably reacted the same way. Hell, someone punching me, and I hear people telling that dude to kill me? I'd go into survival mode, too. Plus Billy was crying when he was punching Steve.

You mentioned the car scene. Billy is a seventeen year old boy. Teenagers in general (speaking from experience) are assholes, like I've said before. He wasn't going to actually hit the kids. If he did, he would be arrested, and guess who has a knuckle sandwich waiting for him at home? Plus it would mess up his car.

Why the kids kept pedaling instead of full on abandoning their bikes, we'll never know.

The hypocrisy in this fandom is truly sad. Also, to my knowledge, Steve never once apologized to Jonathan for what he said about his family, or for breaking his camera.

No character on that show is perfect. That's one of the few things that's realistic! Every character has done some questionable shit at some point, or whatever, because they're human. But Billy is where they draw the line.

They're like "oh it wasn't a redemption arc". I'm like... my brothers in christ, he gave up his life for some kids that didn't even try to save him! Also, he needed time to develop. And to develop, he needs to be alive. How the fuck can he develop, or "pay for his crimes" if he's dead???

And okay, fine, if Lucas was impacted by Billy, or by Jason... why don't we see the impact?

Racism isn't something you're vague about when you add it to a storyline. Why be vague about racism? Why have your characters use a bunch of slurs? Especially if you never intended to dig deeper into real social issues.

Racism, abuse... these are real issues. The way they're never acknowledged? Why? They aren't fucking spices or decorative pieces to make your storyline more "interesting". If you mention anything vaguely racist, why don't you elaborate? Because the Duffers never planned to.

[every-dayiwakeup]

Tags:

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@hardestgrove

@marsmay

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@geormenia

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[every-dayiwakeup]

Max became a mouthpiece for the Duffers in that scene with Vecna. They're all like "in case you didn't know how we view abuse victims, we'll just tell you lol".

Of course, it was out of character for her, because those weren't her words.

[every-dayiwakeup]

I've noticed that, too. I've heard people say he was a murderer, and I was like... just say you live under a rock.

Possessed: influenced or controlled by something (such as an evil spirit, a passion, or an idea).

Billy was possessed, just like Will. But no one tried to save Billy, now did they. These parallels are explicitly stated, and yet the writers still treat Billy differently.

The narrative shows blatant favoritism, which leads me to believe that if that favoritism didn't exist, this fandom would either not be so pigheaded, or they wouldn't know who to root for.

Not only that but extreme bias. You cannot attack one character for a certain action while praising another (especially if it's a main character) for that very same thing.

Let the audience decide who to root for, I say! A character can express how they feel about another character, and how they may affect the storyline, but if an author is practically shoving their favorite characters down your throats while neglecting and slaughtering your favorites, and if you can tell that the only reason a character is alive is that the creator loves them, not to mention NOT KILLING OFF YOUR MAIN CHARACTERS AND INTRODUCING NEW ONES JUST TO SIDELINE PERFECTLY GOOD CHARACTERS YOU ALREADY HAVE WHICH MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST GOING TO KILL THE NEW CHARACTER ANYWAY-

One thing in season three that seems really minor but says a lot to me is how the Party talks about Billy while he’s flayed. It’s a noticeable shift from season two with Will. When it comes to the Mind Flayer possessing Billy, it’s always “what Billy is doing” and “what Billy did.” It seems insignificant but it says a lot about how the narrative is never blaming Will for what he did while possessed, but it blames Billy for all of his actions.

[every-dayiwakeup]

FUCKING NEVER

Anyway, since when have we listened to what the Duffers have to say about Billy?

[every-dayiwakeup]

ITS WHAT HE DESERVES

pssst. co-dependent Billy who cannot sleep without Steve by his side, because after a lifetime of trauma and abuse he has finally found someone who is safe, who loves him, and even though he’d never admit it out loud he fully believes that Steve is the one person who could (& would!!!) protect him when push comes to shove. he won’t go to bed before Steve. he has to be touching Steve in some capacity when they do go to sleep, to assure himself that Steve is there. whenever Steve is out of town, he calls Billy and stays on the phone with him until Billy falls asleep, because he knows that Billy doesn’t sleep well when they’re apart and he wants Billy to know that he’s safe. and Steve does come him, Billy is always a little extra clingy. he just needs that reassurance that Steve will always come home to him, and of course Steve never lets him down. he’ll hug Billy as tight as he can for as long as Billy needs, because this boy raised by fists and raised voices deserved to know softness and security and love.

[dntcreamyrpants]

Stranger things killing off heavily gay coded characters. Fuck you duffers 😂🖕😂

STRANGER THINGS 

1x03 ⇢ 3x01

[icemankazansky86]

Fuck. This is /literally/ me rn. Fuck you, Duffer Brothers. I can’t stress that enough! 🖕

Catch me tipsy watching fireworks and crying about Billy Hargrove

[every-dayiwakeup]

Exactly 👏👏

People were shitting on Billy theories, but like... Hopper was in an explosion that fucking evaporated others around him... but my man was so Chad he survived just by ducking. I think Billy surviving is one of the least outrageous theories, at least in comparison to the Dumpster Brothers' trash heap that they call canon.

Honestly though... I want Stranger Things to expose themselves, because the fandom (not counting y'all) isn't intelligent enough to see the mediocrity. Let them become Riverdale! Hell, they're already halfway there!

The actors are truly in their Cole Sprouse era, and you know what, good on Dacre for jumping ship early. He was smart.

I'm sorry but if they bring Eddie back as a vampire or some shit I'm done. Its giving Riverdale but it isn't camp or self aware enough to at least be entertaining. Leave him dead like everyone else