#even nino would have made more sense than her

[snaaail]

Someone needs to sit me the fuck down, and explain to me in detail why the fuck them writers decided to make Zoe ( a character we have seen in two episodes ) instead of LITERALLY ANYBODY ELSE. 

[ninadove]

Lukadrinette kids

Because I can. Enjoy these silly little thoughts.

📝 General notes:

Marinette, aka Maman, started out as a very successful and very stressed out fashion designer. She ends up retiring at 35 to take over the bakery and finally learn to chill (it’s going… better than expected).

Luka, aka Papa, is a guitarist with a very niche following and is perfectly happy with that. He’s very present in his kids’ lives and the easiest parent to open up to, because of course he is.

Adrien, aka Dad, is the stay-at-home parent and could not be more stoked. And scared. Someone help them

Emma and Hugo are twins, but look nothing like each other, which baffled Adrien and Felix when they were born; Adrien will never admit it, but he was a tiny bit disappointed they weren’t identical.

To help the kids connect with their heritage, their parents speak French, English and Mandarin Chinese at home. Despite it all, Louis’ first words were a full sentence in Japanese — more on that later.

It’s very common for French kids to have two “middle names” (deuxième et troisième prénoms), so I have planned accordingly. Enjoy!

🐍 Emma

Her full name is Emma Sentibug Alya Dupain-Cheng. Adrien would not have it any other way.

She’s the oldest by five minutes and she takes it very seriously. Too seriously, even.

Emma inherited Gabriel’s grey eyes, which will have no influence on her perception of herself at all, no sir.

Like Marinette, she feels responsible for protecting everyone and everything around her, which is why she was blacklisted from using the Ladybug Miraculous before she reached the tender age of five.

As luck would have it, she ended up with the Snake, which is even worse for her mental health. For maximum dramatic irony, I think I’ll call her superheroine persona Aspik.

Aroace and sad. It’s already hard enough to be aspec as it is, but given the importance romance played in her parents’ lives… you get the point.

🦋 Hugo

Aka Hugo Felix Tom Dupain-Cheng. Yes, Felix cried upon learning his name. A lot.

🎶 Bi bi bi bi BI 🎶

Inherited Mari’s talent for arts and crafts and Adrien’s dramatics. Despite being very similar to them both, he often finds it difficult to talk to them.

Uncle Felix, however, is his absolute favourite adult in the world, and regularly knocks some sense into him.

Adrien and Nino were so excited for their sons to be besties! So naturally they hate each other’s guts

They end up kissing about it, though, so it’s fine.

Butterfly holder. Very purple 💜

🐈‍⬛ Louis

Aka Louis Nino Jules (after Juleka)

Because twins were a lot to handle, Louis only came along six years later.

When he doesn’t get his way, he turns petulant and grumpy, which makes him Plagg’s absolute favourite. Luka finds it endearing and jokes that they rub off on each other. This stresses Adrien out, though, as he fears it might be an early sign of Gabriel Behaviour.

The truth is that Louis just has these huge feelings that he doesn’t know how to handle… and you know who relates to this? KAGAMI. She’s the only one who can get him to calm down once he starts crying. She will pick him up, he will cling to her jacket and suck on his thumb, and she will carry on with the conversation as if nothing happened.

Originally Very Small, he gets a HUGE growth spurt and ends up built like Tom, which is very unusual for Cat holders.

🐞 Sabine

Aka Sabine Amelie Rose

The surprise baby of the bunch. She looks just like her grandma Sabine!

A total ray of sunshine. Also very gay.

As the youngest and eventual holder of the Ladybug Miraculous, she triggers Mari’s overprotective tendencies the most. Adrien actually had to step up and get her to back off as it was starting to stir up bad memories.

Because Rose was very ill when the twins and Louis were young, she and Juleka didn’t get to watch them as much as she would have liked. They made up for it by spoiling their younger niece beyond reason.

The most musically inclined of the kids. Her love for punk rock and metal clashes hard with her cutesy vibes. Rose couldn’t be prouder. 💖

[princess-of-the-corner]

I'm curious:

What do you think the Miracuclass would have been like with no Chloe? It's a universe where she doesn't exist?

She is such a force of nature, so a LOT would change, even before the main series.

My first thought is that the role of Class Asshole instead goes to Kim, who remains fairly oblivious to what hurts other people's feelings and can take shit way too far.

I'm not convinced Sabrina would be friends with the rest of the Girl Posse, even HC Sabrina. Canon Sabrina has a lot of moments where she does genuinely like being mean, and wouldn't really gel with the rest of the squad if she hadn't mellowed out in response to Chloe getting more intense.

HC Sabrina probably wouldn't have picked up Chloe's bitchy behaviors, but her idea of friendship would still be pretty skewed because of her dad and I think everyone else would be turned off by how hard she goes. They'd find it weird and uncomfortable and wouldn't really have all the right tools or circumstances to have the conversation that Chloe and Sabrina manage to have. I feel like this would actually cause Sabrina to be a weirdo loner outcast or attach herself to a different Andre-esque figure, although I'm not sure who.

In either scenario, the only ones I see Sabrina being chill with are Alix and Nathaniel. I feel like Alix would be the only one who would respond with grace to Sabrina in kind of a "whoa girl, can you chill out for a second. I don't hate you, just calm down" thing. I feel like Nathaniel and Sabrina would have something of an on-again off-again friendship/acquaintanceship where he likes her cuz she likes his art and refuses to quit when he withdraws, and she likes him cuz he keeps accepting her fuckups even if it takes a week of the silent treatment for him to process it.

I don't think Alya and Marinette would have become half as close, or at least not that fast. Without the common enemy to bond over and miraculously have them sit next to each other, I don't think they'd have much time talking one on one. Marinette may also be a lot less inclined to turn a blind eye to the way Alya keeps trying to expose Ladybug and puts herself in risky situations.

Adrien would have NO friends if you don't count Felix, which would have made him EXTRA fucked up. No concept at all for how people care about each other except what's modeled by the adults who can't get their shit together. No social skills. No idea how a lot of things in the world work. Just. So so so sheltered loner rich kid. And probably very sad and lonely. Nino still would have adopted him and taken him under his wing, but Adrien would be waaaayyyy different. I imagine him being chronically online and talking to a lot of people on the internet (think, made friends in an anime fandom), but he's too scared to drop many details about his personal life because he (rightly) assumes they'll treat him different if they know he's rich and a celebrity.

Just my initial thoughts, and I'm curious how you'd spin it.

ohohoho.

Okay so like

Adrien and Sabrina are obvs going to be the focus here.

the rest of the class is somewhat unchanged. Chloé was a bitch but outside of the Derision Retcons she's not really causing major problems. There are other mean kids at school to kinda fill out anyone being bullied (not in a 'i'm bringing in a rando to fill her role' but in a 'the idea that a singular kid is the only bully in school is ridiculous, and anyone who was targeted by Chloé would've been targeted by someone else).

I do think there may be overall butterfly effect(HA!) in a sense of 'Chloé didn't do X, so Y didn't happen'.

I do also think that Mari and Alya may not have hit it off as strongly because there wasn't some bully to save her from. They might've been friends, but not the immediate "oh I'll become a Superhero to save you!!' thing.

Sabrina is in a weird place because to me she's even more of a social chameleon than either Zoé or Lila. She's been taught to see relationships as transactional and unfortunately so has Chloé so they're a match made in Hell. But without A Chloé there's.... so many other options?

the best option is she made friends who taught her better. But it's also likely that she makes friends who, while good people, don't quite get the transactional angle and are accidentally taking advantage. They do care for her, but also whenever they're busy she still freaks out and wonders if she did something wrong.

Speaking of, Sabrina could've leaned into the transactional too hard in that like. A few too many rainchecks and it's 'Oh I'm doing things for you but you're not giving me affection? Guess we aren't friends goodbye.' so she doesn't really have any friends.

On top of everything else said about Adrien and his lonliness: He wouldn't be in public school. Chloé was the root of the reasons he wanted to go(to be with his friend, to experience the things she talks about happening(well. Her half-truths and skewed perspectives but I digress). And Chloé is the one who gets Adrien enrolled in school in the first place!

Without her, Adrien wouldn't have gone. He might not even be Chat Noir because he didn't go out that day.

[sariahsue]

Wherefore Art Thou My(stery) Lady

When a failed attempt to let Chat Noir down easy ends with Ladybug learning his name, she does what any lovesick teenager would do: teases him mercilessly. Ch 1 Ch 2 Ch 3 Ch 4 Ch 5 Ch 6

Chapter Seven (Final)

Adrien – Good morning. I love you.

After sending that message first thing every morning for a week, Adrien knew better than to expect an answer for another hour, probably two because it was a Saturday. No school to look forward to, but he did have a group brunch date. Nino and Alya had organized it and invited Adrien and Marinette along, and Adrien was left to wonder if that had been part of a plan to set the two of them up. 

He took his time showering and getting ready. He knew it was silly, but he wanted to make sure he looked his best.

By the time he got back, Ladybug had sent him a text. 

My Lady – Love you too. ❤️ Figure me out yet? Adrien – Actually, maybe.  My Lady – Really?! Adrien – It's still just a theory, but I know how I'm going to test it later.  My Lady – I look forward to it!

If he was right, she would. It involved a lot of sappy staring at Marinette. 

Brunch wasn’t for another half hour, but he told Nathalie and the Gorilla to drop him off earlier than he needed to be there. It was something he often did, a way to get as much time out of the house as possible. They hadn't caught on yet. (Or if they had, they'd never said anything about it.)

The place they had chosen was small, but Alya swore they had the best pancakes this side of the Alps. Adrien planned on having everything with way too much syrup. 

He found a good seat near the center of the room and texted Ladybug while he waited. Was she getting ready to come to the same spot? If she was, she gave no indication that she'd be seeing him later, just asked what his plans were for the day, as if she honestly had no idea. He leaned back in his chair as he waited for the others. 

Waiters passed with steaming plates of eggs and croissants and coffee. People bustled in and out around him, saying good morning to friends, enjoying the weekend. Adrien hardly noticed any of them until one of them yanked the back of his chair, almost pulling him down. 

“You gotta be careful, dude. You could fall if you lean too far.”

Chairs scraped on the hardwood floors as Nino and Alya took the seats opposite him. It made sense that they would sit together, but was part of the reason to force Marinette to take the seat next to him?

“Lean over a little bit in that chair, Nino.” Adrien reached across the table to grab his hat, but Nino jerked out of the way. “Just so I know how far back I can go. That's all. I promise I won't knock you over.”

“You know, for some reason, I don't really trust you.”

“Marinette says she's coming.” Alya looked up from her phone.

“Did she sleep in or something?” Adrien asked. Knowing when she woke up would help him decide if he was right, though at this point he couldn't imagine how he could be wrong.

“No, she told me she's been awake for a while.”

One hour, he guessed, based on when she had started texting him back. He drummed his fingers, waiting for her to arrive. He needed to see Marinette. Once he saw her, he was sure he would be able to tell for certain. 

Their server came a few minutes later, taking orders. Alya placed for Marinette after getting an assurance over text that she’d be there soon.

“She’s really excited about this,” Alya continued. “Like, texting me nonstop about it since she got up.”

“My condolences,” Nino said.

“Did she say what got her so excited?” Adrien asked. 

“No,” Alya said, eyeing him. “Why? You think you know?”

Adrien just shrugged, pretending to look down to check his phone, though it was really to hide his face. Ladybug hadn’t sent him anything in ages, and the agonizing wait until he knew who she was was even more unbearable now that he had hope it was almost over. 

Marinette came in, pulling out the seat next to his and scooting in until, probably on purpose, her knee brushed his.

“Good morning!” she said, face shining with excitement. She didn't look directly at him, letting him study her profile. The style of her hair was just right. Her freckles were the same. The curve of her lips. (He’d know those lips anywhere.) And he could see the corner of one blue eye. Exactly the right shade.

Marinette glanced over and caught him looking. The corner of her eye crinkled in amusement, then looked down as she slipped her phone into her coat pocket, her hand lingering out of view.

Adrien’s phone pinged with an incoming message. He looked at it reflexively as Marinette pulled her phone out again and laid it face up on the table in front of her.

“What's that, Adrien?” she asked. “Another text from your mysterious girlfriend?”

It was another picture of him, sent by Ladybug, taken just seconds ago. He whipped around while Nino and Alya laughed at him. People were coming in and out of the doorway, but no one that looked like her. He kept looking anyway because it kept him from looking at Marinette. It had been a picture of him and his friends at the table. Marinette had been sitting next to him when the picture had been sent. Ladybug couldn't have been her. 

He'd been so certain... He'd been hoping it was her. He'd had such a streak of luck lately that he'd actually believed that he’d been fortunate enough to be partnered with Marinette. For a moment, he’d been able to believe that the two best girls he knew were one, and she loved him. Disappointment tasted terrible.

Ladybug probably wasn't going to be in the shot, but he held up his phone and took a picture anyway. He glumly turned back to the table and sent it. 

Marinette's phone buzzed enthusiastically, and she swept it out of sight before Adrien could get a good look at it. All he caught was a glimpse of a room, filled with people and tables and an empty doorway. 

“What?” Marinette asked when he turned to look at her. Alya and Nino both waited quietly for once, eyes flicking back and forth between the two of them.

Pulling the picture Ladybug had just sent, Adrien looked over it carefully. He was sitting with his friends, but only two of them. Marinette's seat was still empty. The picture had been taken before she'd sat down. And really, there were hundreds of places to eat brunch in Paris. What were the chances Ladybug just happened to be going to the same one as him this morning?

Found you.

Adrien stared Marinette down. She stared back with the same practiced innocence Ladybug had given him a week ago when they'd first talked about the texting. There was no way they weren't the same person. Her mouth quirked the same way. Her eyes twinkled, whether in civilian clothes or in a red-spotted suit. 

She was right. It was so obvious now that he knew what - who - he was looking at. 

Marinette stayed silent through his whole examination, not raising a question until he pulled away and opened his texting app.

“What are you doing?” she asked. Her phone was face down on her lap.

Adrien – Hi 

The buzz that Marinette's phone gave was much quieter, but he was still able to pick it out over the din of the crowd. 

She clenched her hand around it but didn't look away from him. 

Adrien – I Adrien – Love Adrien – You Adrien – My Adrien – Lady

With each message he sent, Marinette's phone buzzed again. The neutral look on her face started to crack. 

“Aren't you going to answer those?”

“No.”

“Why not?” he asked, grinning. “They could be important. Could be from your boyfriend or something.”

“Seeing as I don't have a boyfriend, Adrien,” she put extra emphasis on his name, making sure he knew it was his fault that she didn't, “that would be kind of impossible.” She pressed the phone into her leg to muffle the vibrations.

“Maybe we can fix that?”

He held up his phone right to her face and snapped a picture. 

Another photo message flashed across her screen, and Adrien could see how it lit up the cloth around it. 

“Admit it,” he said. “I figured you out, My Lady.”

“You did, Kitten. Good job.” Marinette held out her phone to him. The screen was full of a picture of her face. Sender: Future Husband. 

Nino was offering his congratulations. Alya was sighing dramatically and saying “finally!” over and over, but Adrien had all but tuned them out. Marinette was Ladybug. He knew who she was. 

And he still couldn’t kiss her. Not the way he wanted to with their friends watching. 

Instead, he grabbed her hand and slowly turned it palm down, placing a long, slow kiss on the back, a promise of things to come.

When he looked up, Marinette’s cheeks were tinged with pink, but she quirked her eyes with a questioning look. That’s it? she silently asked.

He winked at her, and her blush deepened. “Later,” he mouthed. 

---

“I have one question about all of this,” Adrien asked as they walked down the street. “What was the obvious hint that I missed? I know I talked to you a few times that day, and I can't figure out what it was. The offer of help?”

Nino and Alya had completely ditched them the moment brunch was over. Alya said normally they’d make up some excuse to manipulate them into being alone together. She’d paused dramatically to look at their intertwined hands before claiming she didn’t think she’d be needing schemes anymore, then told them to take advantage of the alone time. Adrien had promised her he would, all while Marinette sputtered in embarrassment.

“I made a cat pun,” she said. “A terrible, awful, bad cat pun. And I am ashamed.”

“What was it?”

“No way! I am not saying it again!” Her emphatic arm movements were hampered by his grip on her hand, but she didn’t seem to mind.

“Marinette.” He slowed, and pulled on her arm until she stood facing him. They’d started their relationship hidden from everyone, with secrets and texts and masks coming between them. Now they were in public, where anyone could see them. “Can I kiss you?”

“I think I’ve waited long enough,” she said, tilting her head and closing her eyes.

“You?”

Her eyes snapped back open, though her head remained at the perfect kissing angle. “Yes, me. I didn’t think it was going to take you that long. I was dying!”

He took a step back, grinning. “I’m not sure if I want to kiss you now after all. Middle of the sidewalk’s probably not the best place for–”

Marinette pulled him down and planted her mouth on his, and his teasing argument died. Adrien felt like he was melting, being molded into a shape that fit her better. 

She pulled away too quickly, resting her forehead against his. People walked around them, just two regular teenagers kissing in public.

“Technically,” he said after catching his breath, “I think that was just you kissing me again.”

“You were kissing me back. It counts.”

“No.” He let go of her waist to cup her face. “This is me kissing you.” And he lowered himself to meet her.

The End

---

Tag list: @eclipsesmoonshine14 @maribugette @delectablycoolscientist @mlbigbang

If you’ve stuck around for the whole thing, thank you! If you’re interested, I’ve got over 70 other Miraculous stories of varying lengths for you to check out. And I’ve got a bunch more planned. Next up is a one-shot featuring half-reveal, pre-relationship Ladynoir, and an akuma whose power is to throw them into fanfiction tropes. Super fun! Plus a project that’s going to feature a lot of love square kisses! (Okay, well, actually two future projects fit that description, haha!) I hope you stick around! Thanks for reading and for all the comments!

I don't think I ever directly linked the artwork that goes along with this story, so here they are! Cover Ch 5 scene

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

What do you think about Nathalie's original plotline of wanting to betray Gabriel after getting the Miraculous from the heroes so she can use the Wish herself in order to make Gabriel fall in love with her (according to the leaked Bible this used to be her motivation for helping Gabriel all along but it got scrapped from the show before it ever came up). Do you think this would've been a better plot for Nathalie than what we've got ?

I have extremely mixed feelings about that concept, so let's talk through them!

On the one hand, I am here for Nathalie having a motivation beyond, "I love Gabriel so much that I will do everything to make him happy, even if it means committing terrorism, supporting child abuse, and forfeiting my life!" While that kind of selfless motivation can make for an interesting character - or at least an interesting character arc - it requires a lot more character development than Nathalie was given. The way they did it in the show is just another entry in the show's troubling trend of making characters (and notably mainly female characters) do stupid stuff in the name of love.

Love making people do stupid things is a very real phenomena, so I'm not against that happening from time to time. But love can also make you do wonderful things and miraculous rarely shows us those moments. All the big, dramatic, love-based choices have been ones that lead to dire consequences and personal suffering even if the choice was framed as a loving and/or selfless act. Because of that, I'm okay with Nathalie's "sacrifice" being re-framed as a selfish act done because she thinks that she'll be able to get the miraculous and make herself healthy again.

This alternate motivation would pair well with Gabriel's motivation. I like that because they're co-conspirators, so having them share a theme of selfish love would allow for some interesting ideas. For example, what if we did something crazy and let the villains selfish love continually hurt them while the heroes' selfless love continually led to victory? I know, I'm crazy! Who would want that kind of nonsense in a show that's supposed to be all about love and friendship? (Btw, that was sarcasm)

At the same time, I'm really tired of characters being defined by their romantic interests and little else. It makes sense for Gabriel since he's our big bad who is doing everything out of love for his wife, but all of the other characters should be allowed to have more interesting, rich lives in which romance is just one of the many things that they have going on. It would make for a more interesting cast AND really highlight that Gabriel's love is unhealthy while the "true love" of our teens is healthy. A very important theme that has been painfully absent from the show even though it seemed like it was going to be a thing back in the early seasons!

Nino made movies. Marinette was super into fashion and helping her friends. Adrien liked video games and seemed to be into fencing, too. But as time has gone on, the story has become more and more focused on the romantic relationships, pushing aside plots that focus on other things and I'm not a fan.

I'm a big fan of the idea that the foundations of a good romance are a strong friendship and all members of the romantic relationship having personal lives separate from their romantic partner(s). As such, I want a show that gives friendship and romance equal billing. It can even be the friendship between the romantic leads! Episodes like Gamer and Horrificator were excellent in those regards as they allowed for some nice romantic tension while also developing the characters' interests and backstories.

In summary, if we fix canon so that the teen characters all have more healthy romantic relationships, then I'm pretty open to Nathalie keeping her original motivation as it certainly has potential. However, I'd only give it to her if Nathalie and Gabriel were going to get a lot more screen time and development as it adds a lot of complexity to their dynamic and - as I said in another recent post - you shouldn't add complexity to your story unless you're going to actually explore it.

Personally, I don't see myself ever adding this to Nathalie's character since I generally don't have much interest in developing her and Gabriel. Instead, I usually just switch Nathalie's motivation from love of Gabriel to love of Emilie and no, I don't mean romantic love. While I'm totally cool with lesbian Nathalie, I'm a massive fan of her being motivated out of platonic love simply because we don't see that often enough. It's always romance, romance, romance with a little familial love thrown in here and there for diversity and that's fine. Those are strong motivators. But platonic love can be just as powerful and Miraculous is supposed to be about romantic love AND friendship and I don't see why we need to limit the friendship angle to the teen characters. If Gabriel is our example of selfish romantic love, then let Nathalie be our example of selfish friendship.

Assuming that Emilie is some flavor of decent parent, do you really think that she's going to look at Gabriel and Nathalie's actions and be pleased by how they treated Adrien? No! She's going to be furious with both of them! Gabriel for hatching this crazy plot and Nathalie for going along with it. (Btw, this is yet another reason why I like good Emilie. Gabriel and Nathalie are so freaking selfish that I don't really see them caring if the law, the heroes, or the guardians find them guilty. They'd only care about Emilie's judgement and maybe Adrien's. I can see Gabriel going to jail unphased, but melting into a puddle when Emilie serves him with divorce papers while refusing to speak to him. I want him to get his wish - though ideally not via his own actions - but have it be a total monkey's paw!)

[yuseirra]

More about 159~

hahaha XD aw, GOSH this comic is CRAZY, I think it would be fun if I read it as books and in volumes, it's because it's incomplete, and scattered eps that things feel so tense and awkward, I'm sure. It'd have more sense of flow as a volume.

I wrote a lot of things based on my stream of consciousness this morning (because well I draw hikaai and I DO care a lot about character portrayals and analysis) and I want to share it with you all! I reread it after the heat of the moment and I find it really funny,

If you want to feel assured about Ai and Hikaru (and perhaps ONK as a whole) or like the ship hikaai, I feel this is another post that could help you. Like I said in my ch 159 review, if this ain't it, I have no idea where this is going to head and I might as well take a break off from this piece for a bit and get some air. P3R episode Aigis is coming out on the 10th (great timing!) but I think I'm on the right track. I got so many things right since I picked this up thus far :D So for now, here we go again:

This is just my intuition and a piece mostly based on gut feelings.

Ha;; This morning, I saw someone extremely worried about Kamiki and Ai and couldn’t leave them feeling uneasy... I’m not in a position to calm others down, though!! I'm the one who needs to be calmed!! give me time to brace myself!!! I get tense because I care about where the story's gonna go too!!! I analyze characters and make fan works. I HAVE to look into the source material and make sense of things in order to do that o<-< I’m really stuck with this manga, aren’t I? What a ride... Okay I know the character looks a bit out of it. But listen, even if we criticize the character, we should wait for the next chapter before doing so. Come on, what would Kamiki even LIE about in the first place? Let’s sit down and think calmly. Let’s go over the facts.

Honestly, it would have been better for Kamiki if Ai wasn’t an idol. If Ai hadn’t been an idol, Ai wouldn't have had to die for deciding to keep her very kids with him!! Ai was murdered because she was an idol who had a boyfriend and kids(it's an absurd reason but to Ryosuke, that was his reason to go through with it). If she hadn’t loved Kamiki, she wouldn’t have died. This isn’t Kamiki’s fault, of course!! To add, if Ai weren’t an idol, they might not have broken up in the first place. Even if they had broken up, Ryosuke wouldn’t have tracked Ai down and killed her!! Things would have been so much better for this character if Ai hadn’t been an idol. His situation on the matter, It's totally the opposite of Nino and Ryosuke’s!

To Kamiki, Ai was certainly one-of-a-kind and irreplacable, yeah. But from Kamiki’s perspective, Ai was never a perfect, flawless figure that he found the need to idolize. She was someone who learned acting from him, who was clumsy and scattered, who needed his guidance in the beginning. She shared the same pain, opened up to him, understood him, accepted him, and loved him. Even though she gave him a deep wound and they parted ways, even when he thought she didn’t love him anymore, she remained precious to him to the point where he was willing to give his life for her. She was the person he wanted to marry. Ryosuke and Nino would kill her for not being perfect enough, but that’s not who Kamiki is. He’s actually the biggest victim of that incident only after AI herself. If Ai had survived, he might have been able to meet their children, reunite with Ai, clear up misunderstandings, and more importantly, Ai would still be alive. That alone would have made life more bearable for Kamiki than living in a world without her. I keep saying this but I'm sure he wouldn't have leaked the address to Ryosuke on purpose. I wrote many theories about this and I came to a conclusion that it must have been a mistake on his end, after getting drunk from sadness after Ai dumped him in the phone call. What kind of mastermind could he even be regarding this case? He was 19 at the time. It's total nonsense. There is no reason for him to try and attack Ai who tells him she has their children growing smart and healthy. He's lying about it to Aqua to make him feel better about avenging him because he believed that's what him and Ai's wanted.

What kind of grand conspiracy could a character like this possibly be behind? At least when it comes to Ai’s death, I don’t think he’s responsible. Even if he grew mad, I feel like that would have taken place after it happened. So what is it that this character wants? I’ve been curious about that too-

When I heard anime S2's opening, I immediately realized!! He wants to see Ai again! Would Aqua say something like,

Aqua has Ruby, Kana, and Akane. He’s not going to live just to get closer to Ai or live solely for her love. Maybe to fulfill Ai’s wishes, but that’s different.

“Without you, I cannot live anymore

I would sacrifice anything for you

I can’t get enough of your love

What should I use to fill in what’s missing?”

If Kamiki has any goal, it’s this: He's never been seen to have a desire for Ai to be the ultimate, perfect idol. He’s not twisted that way. If he’s twisted, it’s more like, “I’ll give anything for Ai.”

Think about it. If someone you love died, what would you want most? You’d want them to live again, right? You wouldn’t go around committing serial murders saying, “No one can surpass them!” You’d just want to see them again if there was even the smallest chance. That’s the most important thing. Nino and Ryosuke are twisted. They liked Ai as an idol, not as a person. But this person has two cute kids with Ai... even though they never got to see them properly. He says he has paternal love, and I believe that because there’s no reason for him to hate the kids. He was prepared to take responsibility, after all. Wouldn’t he be happy about having kids with Ai? Wouldn’t he find them adorable, especially since they look so much like him and the one he loves? Seeing how much he still cares for Ai, he’d probably love their kids too. He refers to them as "Yours(Ai's) and mine". He’d probably want to bring Ai back for the sake of the kids, if not for himself. He even believes Ai died because of him, so that would only add to his desperation and longing. When someone dies, they can’t come back, so that possibility doesn’t usually cross the mind-

However, It seems that the songs are saying there is some kind of hope for that becoming a reality even if the chances are very slim. To think Kamiki would have wanted to preserve Ai’s image as an idol and that's what's been driving him? No way. That’s exactly what killed Ai. He’d probably be sick of that... He just wants Ai to live. That’s his motive. He’s been hanging onto that.

As for the Hikaai ship, I had been holding off on judgment until Ai’s feelings came out. I felt like I won’t know until I hear from Ai herself how she feels about him so I waited out for quite long till the entirety of the movie arc, until it got its closure-

And it really occurs to me, people don’t seem to realize how much thought and conviction it takes for Ai to feel that strongly about a person.

Ai is scared, has a sensitive soul, overthinks things, is defensive, and gets wary. She’s afraid to love and get close to people because she doesn't want to get hurt.

But Ai couldn't give up Kamiki’s child because they were what she had with him, even while she was afraid it would be a burden to him!! Do you know how much certainty, affection, and love that takes? It doesn’t seem to resonate with people as much as it does for me, it's such a deep and strong feeling. That's what really got me. She was scared, but she still wanted them because they were theirs...and she protected their children with all her heart that point onward.

This kind of love is something that you might encounter just once in your lifetime, you might never get to meet someone like that at all.

So I thought, “Good for Ai. She found someone she loved that much.” Kamiki must have been a really precious person to Ai to make her feel that way.

In my opinion, for someone to make Ai feel like that, they would have to be the kind of person who would give out their every part of their organ, even their heart to her if that's necessary, and still think it’s not enough. And when you listen to the songs, the speaker does really seems to express that kind of emotion. That's why I thought 'Oh, this is definitely Ai's lover. This is Kamiki that's saying these things.'

You have to trust Ai’s judgment. Ai is serious about love, and she found someone to give it to. He's the one person she decided on. She wanted to live her life with him, worried about him until the end, named her children after jewels because they looked like the one she loved. Had her son who takes after his dad so much have the characters "love" and "longing" in his name. That’s how much she adored him.

What does that tell you? And when you look at the backstory, it seems Kamiki thought he loved Ai even more than she loved him.

Then that must mean he must have treated her really well. So, it’s not about whether Kamiki loved Ai or not anymore. That's totally just a given!! What’s important now is what he has done since Ai's death.

In chapter 155, he said he was "going to do what he could for Ai" and left. Then Aqua showed up near him in this chapter saying, “I need to save you.”

When you listen to the songs, the narrator keeps saying they don’t mind dying. This is a character who has already said they could die for Ai. So what will they do? I think they’re planning to die “for Ai.” But is offering something for Ai or dying for her really what Ai would want? No. Ai would want Kamiki to live and be happy, and they know that, but they’re lying to themselves. That’s the lie this character tells. It’s a self-sacrificing but self-satisfying kind of thing. That's why Aqua says the lies "are for his own sake". This also explains why Ai left a message asking to help Kamiki. This character is someone who could go to extremes "for Ai", but Ai didn’t want that, which is why Aqua is trying to stop it.

If this isn’t the case, then I won’t be able to make sense of this manga... Haha, the Persona 3 DLC will be out soon, so I’ll just go play that...

This feels right to me, though. If it’s not, I don’t know what else it could be;;

Maybe Kamiki's been possessed by an evil god? But even if that’s the case, the motive he has would probably still be about "saving Ai".

On another note, Kamiki was so gentle and kind in his tone when speaking to Aqua. He spoke really softly, didn’t he?

If he had been able to raise the kids with Ai, he would have been the type to pamper and spoil them... He'd have been a sweet dad. I feel like Ai really did choose a good guy to father her kids.

The way he speaks to Aqua feels quite similar to the last lines and atmosphere of the lyrics of Mephisto.. something about it will be brought up soon, I mean Aqua's wearing that same clothes.

To Kamiki, Aqua must be his and Ai’s cute son, right? But does he know Aqua’s soul is originally that of a 30-something-year-old doctor? If he’s possessed by an evil god, maybe he is aware of these things. But if he doesn’t, it might be a bit awkward. His son is almost the same age as him inside...

Aqua is Aqua, though? But that thought still made me laugh a little. I could imagine Kamiki suddenly speaking very formally towards Aqua upon figuring out he's actually the doc who aided Ai with delivering his children safely. Kamiki seems like the type to speak with a lot of courtesy... the way he speaks has been very polite. It depends on the character, but I think that is part of how he is originally.

[princesssarisa]

Romeo and Juliet for the character ask

Favorite thing about them:

Romeo: His tenderness and passion, and the sheer poetry with which he expresses them. Also, the fact that he's allowed to be tender, emotional, and "unmasculine" (not that he's as "effeminate" as disdainful pop culture sometimes claims he is, but still...), yet the narrative doesn't condemn him for it, and it hasn't stopped him from becoming the most iconic young lover of all time.

Juliet: Her own tenderness and passion which match Romeo's beat for beat, combined with intelligence, eloquence, and wit not often seen in an ingenue. Also, the fact that Shakespeare lets her be passionate and sexual and rebel against her parents, yet never frames her as a "loose woman" or "unmaidenly" for it, but keeps her a fully sympathetic heroine.

Least favorite thing about them:

Romeo: The killing of Tybalt. Despite every argument that can be made to justify it… even if honor and friendship demand nothing less after Mercutio’s death… the fact remains that he kills his new bride’s beloved cousin, and all the rest of the tragedy stems from that act.

Juliet: The selfish aspect of her choice to fake her own death: that she does it even though it means putting her parents and the Nurse through unimaginable pain. Not that I have much sympathy for her parents after the way they treated her, and after being abused by them and then betrayed by the Nurse, I understand why Juliet isn’t too concerned about their feelings. But I might have liked her to be a little more torn for their sake.

Three things I have in common with them:

*I can be passionate and melodramatic.

*I love deeply and intensely.

*I'm an only child.

Three things I don't have in common with them:

*I've never held a sword or dagger.

*I have a good relationship with my parents.

*I've never been suicidal.

Favorite line: How to choose?! All the most famous quotes, and basically everything else they say to and about each other.

brOTP:

Romeo: Mercutio and Benvolio.

Juliet: The Nurse until her betrayal.

OTP: Each other.

nOTP: Their parents or Friar Laurence.

Random headcanon:

Romeo: He's only fifteen, or maybe even fourteen. Not that I object to portraying him as sixteen or seventeen, but I do object whenever someone thinks he's in his twenties. In Juliet's speech looking forward to consummating their marriage, she believes that he's a virgin like herself, and unless we're meant to see her as being painfully naïve, that belief makes more sense the younger he is.

Juliet: Her wit and cleverness are partly thanks to the influence of the Nurse's witty husband, who was a strong, affectionate presence in her life when he was alive. As for how willing and eager she is to consummate their marriage, rather than shy and nervous like other girls her age might be... well, apart from her sheer passion for Romeo, that's the influence of the Nurse.

Unpopular opinion: I wish more critics would take their suffering seriously and not just view it as typical "teen angst." By this I don't just mean haters, but critics who sympathize with them too. I'd like to see people view Romeo's mental health, and its neglect by his family and friends, as more of a real concern, rather than just labeling him (either disdainfully or affectionately) as a melodramatic, impulsive teenager. Ditto for Juliet's dysfunctional relationship with her parents and Romeo's lack of communication with his, rather than just saying "All teens fight with/rebel against/feel unable to confide in their parents." It takes more than that to drive two young people to suicide!

Song I associate with them:

Romeo:

"Ah! Léve-toi, soleil!" from Charles Gounod's opera Roméo et Juliette.

Juliet:

"Ah! Je veux vivre" from Gounod's opera.

Both:

Nino Rota's main theme from the Zeffirelli film (a.k.a. "What Is A Youth?" or "A Time For Us"):

Tchaikovsky's "Fantasy Overture":

And their various love duets from Gounod's opera.

Favorite picture of them:

The iconic painting by Frank Bernard Dicksee.

This painting by John Henry Frederick Bacon.

Their lifeless bodies in Frederic Leighton's painting of the final scene.

Leslie Howard and Norma Shearer in the 1936 film – too old, yes, but I have to honor them because they served as prototypes for Disney's Snow White and her Prince.

Laurence Olivier and Vivian Leigh, 1940.

John Stride and Judi Dench (yes, she was young once), 1960.

Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey in the 1968 Franco Zeffirelli film.

Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes in the 1996 Baz Luhrmann film.

Adetomiwa Edun and Ellie Kendrick, Globe Theatre, 2009.

Orlando Bloom and Condola Rasheed, Broadway, 2014.

The Prince and Cinderella Richard Madden and Lily James, West End, 2016.

Rudolph Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn in Prokofiev's ballet, 1966:

Some other images from Prokofiev's ballet:

From Ian Judge's LA Opera production of Gounod's opera: the opera has Romeo still alive when Juliet revives, so they die together, and Judge's staging features this poignant final tableau, where they feebly reach for each other's hands just before they expire.

@ariel-seagull-wings, @thevampiricnihal, @cto10121, @giuliettaluce

[eddo-tensei]

More thoughts on Derision (Spoilers, obviously)

I think it's amusing that the default counter-argument to anyone who criticizes this episode boils down to "Well, you're just a Chloe Stan!" Which is something I had to deal with myself recently. Apparently, you can only hate this episode if you're a Chloe apologist. First off, hi, I'm Eddo. I wrote a fanfic where Chloe literally gets thrown into the dirt and suffer an allergic reaction to cacti, both times being her own fault. I feel like my Chloe Stan license should be revoked after that.

Anyways, I'm not surprised with the direction they went with Chloe in Derision. It's been stated since around Season 4 that Chloe was on a "Damnation Arc", so they've been doing everything they can to make her worse and worse. So, I'm not surprised or even angry that they continued this here. I'm annoyed, but not angry. What I AM angry about would be the other characters who got mangled in this shitshow.

Writers? Could you please stop having Chat threaten people with Cataclysm after he's shown regret doing it to people by accident TWICE?! This has happened three times now, counting what happened with Scarabella. Yes, I know he did this before with Darker Owl, but that just makes it worse because that happened right AFTER he regretted doing this to Monarch. You know, the guy who's been tormenting and attacking everyone for over a year? I guess to Chat, Damocles and Kim deserve it more for ripping away a fantasy and pulling a shitty prank respectively.

I know I complained about this a lot already, but this needs to be stressed upon. If we're going to take Cataclysm seriously, especially with what later episodes showed us, maybe DON'T have your hero threaten people with it for relatively petty reasons? "BUT IT'S FOR TRUE LOVE!!!1!!" Yeah, no. When he tried to do it on Darker Owl, Ladybug told him to cut that crap. It then happened again with Dark Humor with Ladybug telling him not to do it. It doesn't matter if it's for "true love." Both times he did this so far, Ladybug made it clear that this was a bad idea. So, maybe you guys should stop trying to encourage it. I refuse to believe that Chat believes that Monarch is more deserving to live after everything that he did than Kim after what he did. Speaking of Kim...

My friendly neighborhood dumb jock, why would the writers do this to you? When we only had the leaks to go by, I actually tried to scour for any interactions Kim had with Marinette and I can confirm that with the revelations we got in Derision, they REALLY don't make sense. Yes, Kim was a bit of a douche in the first season. Origins had him push Ivan around to the point of being the trigger for the Akuma. But he wasn't THIS much of a douchenozzle. Moreover, I have a hard time believing Marinette would be as friendly as she is with Kim throughout the series given what he did to her as revealed in this episode. Also, I know this is going to sound offensive, but...Kim was Marinette's first crush? Really? That's what you're going with? I'm not trying to insult Kim, but there was NOTHING that hinted to this. I can't help but think this was the thought process of the writers when they brought this up:

"So, we need to have Chloe do something to Marinette that would explain why Marinette struggles to be with Adrien. It has to be something big and traumatic. More importantly, it has to involve Marinette actually having a past crush that Chloe ruined and it has to be a character we're familiar with, so we can't make up an OC for it. We can't use Nino because he had a crush on her and it wouldn't make sense for her to reciprocate. We can't use Nathaniel because his crush went almost completely unnoticed by Marinette and he's also gay now. We can't use Ivan because he likes Mylene and we can't complicate that. We can't use Max because most people think he's ace and subverting that would piss a ton of people off. Oh, and we can't have it be any of the girls either because our show would get cancelled if Marinette isn't straight. So, let's just make it this guy."

"This. Fucking. Guy."

I'm having a hard time thinking of any other reason. I know some people theorized in the past that Kim and Marinette might've had a thing, but I don't think they held any water. Even now, however, I really don't think people should be happy it was canonized in this way.

I always held the belief that Chloe was responsible for Marinette's behavior, but my idea of it was that Chloe had been bullying Marinette for a long time and those years of sustained bullying took its toll on the poor baker girl that made it difficult for her to not only open her heart to people she loves, but have difficulties making friends in general until Alya came along. Yeah, Chloe doesn't look good in this case either, but it would've been more reasonable and would probably resonate with a lot more people who probably had to deal with bullies messing with them for a long time because these effects usually aren't instant. They get built on for a long time and it can really mess up their perception on things.

I think a good story would've been Marinette having to heal from that sustained trauma and while it is difficult since nobody can just quickly heal from trauma, it'd be a good journey for Marinette to be able to open up again with Alya and Adrien being just the first two pieces Marinette needs for her recovery.

But now, instead of all that, it turns out Chloe just pulled a prank that just unleashed a cavalcade of trauma on Marinette all at once that is hyper-specific to how she handles her crush that Adrien and ONLY Adrien can heal. All the while, it turns out that the prank was actually pulled by a guy who I really thought was just kinda fun and cool, but now I can't talk about him in the same way again because he's been thrown under the bus for the sake of this nonsense plot that's difficult not to call a full-on retcon. Do you know what I can call a retcon, though? Or rather who?

I am sorry to all of the people who are probably stanning Socqueline right now, but I CAN'T vibe with her. I'm not saying you're not allowed to like her either, because that would be dumb, but I DON'T like how she was presented in Derision. First off, to get this out of the way, we're no strangers to characters being introduced out of nowhere. Felix and Zoe are both characters that come to mind. The thing is you can at least explain their respective absences easily. Felix had likely been distant from Adrien for a long time with him only coming in out of obligation with Amelie. Zoe is actually even more easy to explain given that she was shoved into a boarding school by Audrey and wouldn't really be able to connect with any of the characters until she was forced to transfer. Socqueline, however, does not have that luxury and cannot be easily explained away not only with how we found her, but for the fact that there was NO hint to her existing until Season 5 and that is inexcusable given how much importance this character now has. To put it in perspective, this is how we are introduced to Socqueline in Jubilation:

Marinette: That fake Ladybug from this morning, I think it was Socqueline, a school friend from last year. Knowing her, I’m sure she means well. But I have to convince her to stop putting herself in danger like that.

That's it. She just calls her a school friend. Yes, it's clear that she's at least important enough for Marinette to remember her name, she was just called a school friend. At the very least, she did have an interesting story with her trying to be Ladybug in order to help people. Of course, she had to be talked out of it because it's causing issues with the real Ladybug, but it's a decent story and Socqueline had only made a few appearances here and there.

And then Derision.

Yes, Socqueline referred to Chloe as "that monster", so it's clear that they planned her to have something against Chloe since her first appearance. However, Derision showed us that Socqueline wasn't just a school friend. She was Marinette's closest confidant in the school years prior to the start of the series. She actively protects Marinette from bullies, particularly Chloe, and was clearly a huge inspiration for her until Chloe got her suspended from school.

First off, in case I haven't made it clear, we haven't seen Socqueline AT ALL until Season 5. Not even a hint to her existence. So given how significant she was made out to be in Derision, WHY HASN'T SHE MADE ANY APPEARANCES IN THE SERIES BEFOREHAND?! She doesn't even have the excuse of being outside of Paris like Felix and Zoe do because she's STILL there and in an arts and crafts store no less, which probably would've been a great place for Marinette to hang out in with her friends if the writers thought this through. But they didn't and Socqueline's debut comes off as severely jarring because we have this character who was really important to Marinette's life just not show up until she started cosplaying as Ladybug.

Secondly, it muddles Marinette's own backstory as well as severely hampering the significance of Alya. Now instead of being alone with nobody to help her against Chloe, which makes her friendship with Alya all the more stronger, Marinette just had this super cool friend who was always there for her until mean ol' Chloe got her kicked out of school. Doesn't that sound like something you'd see in a fanfic, specifically one that's salting Alya given how Socqueline was depicted as Marinette's BFF?

Thirdly, if Chloe was able to get Socqueline suspended so easily, then why hadn't she been able to do that with the other students? Yeah, she got close with Alya, but that didn't stick. If Chloe really had the ability to just make students disappear even if it happened once, she would NOT hesitate to try and do this again with any other student who slighted her, ESPECIALLY Marinette. But she doesn't. Once her attempt on Alya failed, she didn't try again. Hell, LILA had more attempts to get Marinette kicked out of school than Chloe did and actually got closer to doing it than Chloe would ever get, which is weird since she doesn't have the title of "Mayor's Daughter" to throw around like Chloe would. This just feels like something done to explain away why Socqueline didn't show up in the series which doesn't work because she's STILL IN PARIS and I'm pretty sure Marinette would be more than happy to meet with Socqueline given how close they were, but that never happened.

Fourthly, I'm guessing nobody felt like pointing it out because it felt too obvious, but doesn't Socqueline just come off as the writer's answer to Bridgette? You know, the older Marinette based on the anime PV that some fan writers implement into their own stories? Yeah, she's not one-to-one similar to Marinette like Bridgette is, but it definitely feels like another instance of the writers pulling stuff out of fanon just to put a canon spin on it. And like all the other instances, it's a bad spin.

Lastly, this whole incident with the prank and Socqueline's suspension took place a few months before Origins. Not even a year at the earliest. It was specifically stated that Socqueline was suspended three weeks before the end of the school year. Given how close that time gap, the way everyone behaves in Origins makes almost no sense. Marinette would be a lot more horrified of Chloe if Derision was anything to go by and Chloe would be more willing to try and cast Alya out so Marinette doesn't have any allies given that Derision showed Chloe REALLY wanting to make sure nobody helps Marinette. The only point I could even give any leeway to is Kim and even then, again, he's not that much of a douche in Origins as he was in Derision. So, really, it all just comes off as a blatant retcon specifically to try and explain the new direction the writers are taking with certain characters. And do you want to know the dumbest thing? Apparently, Socqueline was such an inspiration to Marinette that the latter changed her hair to be more like Socqueline's.

No, seriously. That's also how they explain why Marinette has different hairstyles. I know Expository Hairstyle Changes are a thing in fiction, but this is just awkward as hell given how traumatic and melodramatic the whole thing is. You don't need to say that Marinette's hairstyle came from someone who she considered a hero because nothing about Marinette indicated that her hairstyle is important. This isn't like Josuke changing his hairstyle to be based on the man who saved him as a child. It's a purely cosmetic change that's suddenly given a shit-ton of significance because now it's connected to this horribly traumatic incident. In fact, you know what this reminds me of?

Actually, the whole segment where this Linkara clip came from seems to sum up a lot of things wrong with Derision. It's not just bad because it makes some characters look bad or introduces stuff out of nowhere. It's bad because now everything in the flashback is now part of all of the characters! Every prior episode will now have to be viewed with a lens tinted by the events of this episode. Now nobody can discuss Kim without people salting on him for the prank, now nobody can talk about how important Alya's friendship with Marinette because of Socqueline's sudden boost in significance (In fact, it's very likely that Alya salters will try to use Socqueline as a replacement friend), and now nobody can speculate the intrigue of Marinette's past because EVERYTHING about her behavior is linked to this specific incident and nothing else. That's what pisses me off about this episode. That's why I share that Double D meme so frequently. I could care less about how much of a monster Chloe was depicted to be in this episode, but I am going to complain when other characters are butchered in the process. I will complain about one thing concerning her, though.

Isn't it amazing that you can tell the writers are trying DESPERATELY to squish any and all positive interpretations of Chloe, even trying to downplay parental neglect because "this character also didn't have a mom and they didn't turn out this way" even though Mylene's and Chloe's situations are still VASTLY different? You can make the argument that Audrey's absence doesn't excuse Chloe's actions. In fact, I don't think it really does either, but saying that there's only one valid response to an absent parent is EXTREMELY insensitive to people who might be going through similar situations.

Oh, and to cap this all off? This is the favorite episode of one of the main writers. Said writer possibly being considered to be the new director for Season 6 of Miraculous and onwards. I'm not gonna name which one for obvious reasons, but it's been confirmed.

I feel like this is a good indication that you need to hop off this series.

[theerurishipper]

Hey I have a question I read some takes that Adrien is a supposedly good liar? How though are there any examples..I always just assumed people never put two and two together with his identity is because he doesn't connect much with the class nor does Gabriel so it made sense in my head. I'm sorry if I don't actually make sense I just assumed that if even one of the classmates kept getting closer with him maybe he'll open up. I thought that'd be Nino but like I feel that he's so much more closer to his girlfriend and with Kagami that scene where she backed him into the wall and she said that wasn't the real him when he did goofy poses made me uncomfortable and sad for him. Marinette kind of disappoints me as a love interest like that time he was in the park on the bench and she decided that this was the perfect time to give him a present made me annoyed like I understood she has such a huge admiration for the guy and will climb mountains for him but I thought she'd get past that and they'd have like a one on one you know a talk. Usually the love interest would start to bond and grow closer but like I feel she's more into the relationship for herself because of this whole fantasy she builds up in her head it's why their relationship kind of a bummer.

I don't think Adrien that hard to get him to open up to but again this is my own opinion. I don't know really I just feel if someone like a teacher, classmate or even Master Fu get him to open up more and more and they start to bond. I feel like all he wants is a relationship to not be so conditional if someone kind enough allowed him a shoulder to cry on or even acknowlege his habits or when he's in a bad mood I think it'd work I ain't sure though. I wish the dude had more male friends.

I don't really get why the classmates just think Gabriel a strict dude when he seems pretty abusive. Marinette especially she knows how strict he is especially in season 5 and the whole adrigami thing and even with Chloe mom lol I think abuse or parental abuse just doesn't register an actual thing in her mind which is weird lol.

I don't watch Miraculous religiously lol I just watch it sometimes so if my takes and memories are wrong please forgive me. I am so sorry for this being a long ask I ramble way to much.

No need to apologize anon! Feel free to ask me anything.

Personally, when I say that Adrien is a good liar, I don't mean lying in the traditional sense. He doesn't do a lot of actual lying (except when it comes to his secret identity), but it's more than he doesn't really reveal his true self to anybody. He doesn't fake his personality per se, but he only shows people the parts of himself that he thinks they will like because he's been conditioned to believe that he has to conform to everybody's expectations of him and be perfect for them. It's why Chat Noir is so different from Adrien Agreste™, because he's always performing in every part of his life. And putting on a mask at all times isn't the best way to connect on a deeper and intimate level with the people around him. I think Adrien's friendships with Nino and Kagami and everyone else is real, and whatever he shows them is genuine, but it's still not all of him, and he still feels the need to hide the parts of him that he feels they won't like. His relationship with Ladybug is an exception (obligatory until Season 4 disclaimer) because while he's still putting on a performance, it's not for the sake of pleasing her.

You mentioned his closeness with Nino, and I always felt that Adrien was more at ease with Nino than anyone save Plagg. He was more relaxed and at ease with Nino in like, Seasons 1 and 2, enough to show a little more of himself, and I got the sense that he was a little more open with Nino. Then Rocketear happened and Adrien pretty much shut down on that front and started to put on the mask even more, and their friendship never was the same after that.

The thing with Kagami is that she was right about Adrien. Chat Noir isn't his "true self," it's a persona based on him acting out in the way he's never allowed to as Adrien. And the model Adrien is a persona crafted based on the demands from his abusive father who expects him to be perfect. Kagami isn't able to see under Adrien's mask, but she's able to understand that he's putting on a front, and she wants him to quit it.

Marinette kind of disappoints me as a love interest like that time he was in the park on the bench and she decided that this was the perfect time to give him a present made me annoyed like I understood she has such a huge admiration for the guy and will climb mountains for him but I thought she'd get past that and they'd have like a one on one you know a talk. Usually the love interest would start to bond and grow closer but like I feel she's more into the relationship for herself because of this whole fantasy she builds up in her head it's why their relationship kind of a bummer.

This is exactly the problem I have with canon Adrienette. Marinette literally doesn't even know that Adrien is putting on an act, and she literally thinks he's perfect. It was so funny to me when Pretension made Gabe out to be so wrong and evil when he accused Marinette of falling wholesale for Adrien's performance, because Gabe was fucking right, damn it.

The problem is that the show never challenges Marinette's view of Adrien. She doesn't have to learn to look past his masks and see him for who he really is, he just up and tells her thanks to an Akuma's influence, and then he spends the rest of the time in Season 5 pursuing her, so she just gets handed her trophy boyfriend without having to put in the effort of getting to know him as a person. The show never wants Marinette to be inconvenienced by *checks notes* learning to see Adrien as a person, and it just wants her to get her dream relationship without an effort on her part to truly understand him. She's not much different from the rest of her class or any of Adrien's fans, because they all just see what they want to see and what he shows them. By virtue of them being the endgame, Marinette should have been special in that she tried to look past the masks to understand the real Adrien once she realized his "perfection" was a front and an act, but she didn't. She remained as delusional about him as she always was and got the relationship dropped in her lap. Thanks, I hate it.

I don't think Adrien that hard to get him to open up to but again this is my own opinion. I don't know really I just feel if someone like a teacher, classmate or even Master Fu get him to open up more and more and they start to bond. I feel like all he wants is a relationship to not be so conditional if someone kind enough allowed him a shoulder to cry on or even acknowlege his habits or when he's in a bad mood I think it'd work I ain't sure though. I wish the dude had more male friends.

I don't think it's that simple for him to break out years of being conditioned to conform to other people's needs, but the fact remains that, you know, no one even cares. Kagami was literally the only one who cared enough to try and understand him, and even she was made to spend Season 4 as Adrien's bitter ex (not Kagami salt, I love Kagami, this is just writing salt). The rest of the class admits in Felix that they don't really know him, and they never really seem to try to get to know him either. They do care about him, but not that much, you know? Everyone is honestly content to keep seeing him as the perfect guy, and no one tries to see the real him. Like I said, I feel like he was a little more open with Nino in the earlier seasons, and he's more open with Plagg, but that's about it. He was a little more open with Ladybug, but that also went down the drain in Season 4 because of the Ladynoir conflict. It took an Akuma for him to open up to Marinette. I don't blame anyone for falling for his act, but they clearly don't really care to get to know him either. I think you're right in a way, that he would be a little more willing to drop the act if someone tried to understand him, like Nino and Plagg. But no one cares, unfortunately.

I don't really get why the classmates just think Gabriel a strict dude when he seems pretty abusive. Marinette especially she knows how strict he is especially in season 5 and the whole adrigami thing and even with Chloe mom lol I think abuse or parental abuse just doesn't register an actual thing in her mind which is weird lol.

Tbf they don't know much about what goes on inside the Agreste household, and they are just kids, so I understand that they wouldn't be able to completely recognize what's going on with Adrien. But the show itself doesn't think Audrey and Gabriel are abusive, and Marinette is basically the mouthpiece for all that, hence the solution is that apparently Chloe and Audrey should just bond, and Adrien should be fed a lie that Gabriel is not a bad guy actually. Marinette seems to have a pretty black and white view of the matter, and since she comes from a loving home, it doesn't really register to her that parents can be so awful. But the show frames Marinette as in the right to push Chloe and Audrey together when what Chloe needs is to get the hell away from that abusive person. It tries to frame her as right for gaslighting Adrien into loving his abuser. It's pretty nasty stuff.

But that's just my opinion. Honestly, I think the best meta on this subject is this excellent post by @fearlessinger. It's a wonderful analysis, I highly recommend it.

Thank you for your ask!

[aihoshiino]

I'm honestly extremely disappointed at this arc, I was looking most forward to it but got nothing in return other than a made up fanfic that was not even developed anyways. I also am on the camp that Ruby didn't recognize her father, otherwise why would she monologue to this rando who she is trying to kill too

Ruby seems to have chosen to not forgive the person who killed her mother since the panel where she looks back at Hikaru is the same as when Akane was saying "it all comes down if the Ai in the movie forgives..." and in turn the death scene she (as Ai) portrayed her death without smiling (unlike the real Ai)...did Aqua do this on purpose so everyone spites Hikaru by showing how miserable Ai was to be killed? Or Ruby truly fail to understand her mom? Little aqua wasn't on the scene either crying over Ai either

It sucks bcoz we started the arc strongly with Ruby understanding Ai's deepest feelings with the Ai-Nino scene and the pudding outburst...to end with whatever this is. The only part I got curious was one of the last scenes with a Ai & Hikaru confrontation, what was that about? But this movie is a fanfic anyway, what's even the point knowing...

Sorry for this big rant but I'm just so annoyed with this arc, thank the heavens it's over but man...this had so much potential...Aka what were you doing

Could not agree more lol. I was saying to the gang on Discord that a big part of what made this arc so frustrating for me is that it has a handful of really high highs (131 and 136-7 my beloveds) which make the ways everything around them absolutely fails to cohere all the more obvious.

I have a secret conspiracy theory right now that the Movie arc was originally structured really differently (with the past life reveal happening much closer to 143) and that it was pushed up to its current place in the story to coincide with the last episode of the anime airing. As a result, the rest of the arc had to be restructured and it's why things feel so… janky.

I fully acknowledge I have no real evidence for this outside of just how weird and disjointed the Movie arc ends up feeling, but I kind of can't make sense of it any other way. It really feels like there were some kind of behind-the-scenes issues that resulted in the arc being structured in the way that it was just because it's so clunky and so much stuff gets such massive build up with no payoff. It feels like Akasaka was told to just make sure the manga was still running by the time season 2 aired and then got told to just cut the arc short when he was building up to the final handful of scenes because otherwise the way it rips through to the arc end makes no sense to me.

It's a mess!! I meant to sit down and try and re-read it over the break so I could at least start pecking at an arc retrospective but I just don't have the energy to even try yet lol. I'm hoping our next arc will be an improvement but. Who even knows at this point.

[wilygryphon]

Akumaclass Harem AU

Marinette has a crush (whether she yet knows it or not) on all of her classmates, and when she kisses their Akuma forms (either as Ladybug or as Marinette), their Akumas’ connection to Hawk Moth severs and they regain their normal minds and are able to switch between civilian and Akuma modes.  This also prevents Hawk Moth from Reakumatizing them, as technically they still have an Akuma.

It first happened with Lady Wifi.  Her Akumatized best friend had her locked to the wall and her partner trapped, and she was making a big show of how she had full control of the situation and was going to unmask her to all of Paris.  Ladybug was very attracted to the presented power and was overcome with the urge to kiss her, to the surprise of both of them.  Alya’s normal mind and morality were restored, and Hawk Moth’s connection to her was broken, and she quickly dismissed the livestream sigil and the locks.  She apologizes for everything and drops her Lady Wifi appearance while Ladybug uses the Miraculous Cure.  Marinette wonders what could have happened, but Tikki has no answers that would explain it as being a power of the Ladybug Miraculous.

Evillustrator- Marinette explains the situation to Sabrina adequately, and Sabrina is touched that Mari would agree to the date to help Nath and keep Chloé safe.  On the date, Marinette is genuinely charmed by Evillustrator/Nathaniel and gives him a kiss on the cheek.  This has the same effect as on Lady Wifi and Nath comes to his senses while still appearing as Evillustrator.  Marinette admits that she worked with Chat Noir to trap and Deakumatize him, but Nath tells her that she did the right thing even if he doesn’t like being tricked.  Chat reports to Chloé to tell her that she is safe now.  Marinette wonders how she has this power, and muses the possibilities of if it is a hidden power of the Ladybug Miraculous or something akin to True Love’s Kiss.  In the meantime, she offers to go on a real date with Nath.  When Marinette relays the night’s events to Sabrina, the latter girl is dismayed as she wanted to ask Mari out on a date, but Mari agrees to that.  So she starts dating both Nathaniel and Sabrina, and both are willing to help her with her crush on Adrien.

Ladybug gets this to work with Horrificator but ironically fails to perform it on Dark Cupid.  When Nino tries to tell Marinette he likes her but panics and says he likes Alya and Marinette comes up with ideas to set them up, Alya is annoyed in part because she is in love with Ladybug after the Lady Wifi kiss.  But Alya and Nino still end up falling for each other and start dating.  Ladybug later uses her magic kiss on Princess Fragrance and Reflekta (but not Gamer, Vanisher, or Antibug).  After she comes to understand Chloé’s situation, her pushed-down feelings spark up more clearly rather than having Chat Cataclysm the Bee Comb.  She still takes the Miraculous back to Master Fu and discuss the whole “Akuma Cure Kiss” thing.  While she does not have the Miraculous, Chloé cannot become Queen Wasp again, as the Akuma is in the Miraculous, but she could be Akumatized without it.  Marinette takes part in the fight against Reverser in civilian form due to her Ladybug form being reversed and made clumsy so Marinette has the opposite state, and she kisses them to bring Marc to their senses.  So by the time we get to Heroes’ Day, Marinette is dating Nathaniel, Sabrina, and Marc, while Ladybug has Alya, Mylène, Rose, Juleka, and Chloé pining for Ladybug.

When Vanisher follows Ladybug in an attempt to find the Guardian, Ladybug detransforms and kisses her as Marinette to free her from Hawk Moth’s control.  Every Love-Redeemed Akuma aids Team Miraculous in fighting Scarlet Moth’s army, while Chloé starts out as Queen Bee in the fight before shifting to Queen Wasp to clear out large numbers of Scarlet Akumas when she thinks of it.  Ladybug gets kisses in on Timebreaker (really easy because Scarlet Moth had her stand by because he remembered that she is the one Akuma he doesn’t want to use) and Stoneheart (kept occupied by Horrificator).

[kabartmatzu]

Oookaaay… Here is Marinette Dupain-Cheng aka Ladybug. There is not many doodles like in Chloe’s drawing because I didn’t want to lol. I worked on Ladybug waay before Chloe and I tried so many designs and I worked on this drawing for days because of my job so I kinda got bored of drawing her. But I will draw her more later, dw!

Now I want to tell a little about my design choices rather than her story. She is not so different from show anyway. I deleted her creepiness and made her “not wearing same outfit everyday”. Lmao. Also she talks a lot about fashion in every kind of situation. She is a talented person in many kind of things. She is kind, friendly and cares about others more than herself. I kept her clumsiness but not as annoying as in the show. She is late to school not because she over sleeps but because she spends so much time on her clothing I thought. She got miraculous on high school but story takes time in their university years. Nino is her high school friend. She met with Alya in university. They are roommates in dorm.

So there are rules I follow when I design their hero outfits. Like keep the eyes same as kwamii’s eyes. And there are some features every holder keeps. I mean for all the Ladybug users, they’ve got that black dot on their head and they can’t cover it. That’s why her fringe (?) is short. Also Marinette would like her hair out of her way. Or they get elytra and wings. Yes she got wings so does Queen Bee ( even tho i forgot to draw ) but they can’t fly I thought. They just can glide with them because wings are not big enough for a human to fly. Or Cat users always get ears. All users get sharper faces so they become unrecognizable also their skin tone changes a little. Ladybug users get redder Bee users get yellower etc.

So for Marinette I tried giving her Chinese symbols like some other redesigns. I would like to show it but I can’t get it thanks to Autodesk getting crushed :/ I like that design but still I didn’t went with that. I felt like it doesn’t help with the secret identity thing. So I went with reds over black like real ladybugs. 🐞 I also wanted white dots a lot because of, again, real ladybugs. But I didn’t like them so I added circles over black dots. I am not sure if it looks too complicated but I kinda liked them. Yellow would be good too with red and black but every character would have yellow on them if I did so. Chat Noir and Hawkmoth has yellow details in my redesigns that you will see in the future. (Kinda want to give that they are related they are son and father thing with same yellow lines. I thought its cute.) Queen Bee is also yellow soo I didn’t add yellow on Ladybug. Two stripes on her hips for ladybug’s third set of legs if that makes sense. Her legs and arms are black because ,again, ladybugs are like that. I also thought she added her ladybug thing on her neck after seeing Cat Noir’s bell hehehe. I like pig tails but I really wanted “antennas” to come from her hair so I changed them into buns and I kinda liked them.

Also about her earrings looking like triangles, in my version kwamiis can shapeshift and miraculouses are kind of a part of them so they also can change miraculouses looks. So Marinette has shapeshifting earrings so she doesn’t have to keep buying new earrings lmaoo. It is also good for hiding their identity!

For her powers I will make a post and explain my version of the power system so I will explain her powers there but let me tell you no.miraculous.ladybuging. No fixing every damage. No. Also her yoyo will have more abilities so does other users weapons. I don’t think I will keep the communication thing where they use them as phones. But I want yoyo to has the abilities in the 2D version. Like using it as smoke bomb or as a shield. Her elytra is also like a shield but she can’t take it in her hand. It always stays in her back. Or she can separate her yoyo from middle and make it kinda like nunchucks. I will draw those to explain better.

Also… I am not sure how she will use her creation power. I mean she creates something with her yoyo i mean lucky charm. But Chat Noir looks like he gets his destruction power from his ring. Did you get what I mean? I thought maybe Marinette should get the thing she created from her earrings and make all other users like that but like how Queen Bee’s venom will work then? Or Rena Rouge’s power?? I am not sureee. Maybe I should make them all use their weapons to use their powers or I can make all of them different? Any idea?

[bbutterflies]

major thank you to everyone who’s been so excited for my (second) fake dating adrino fic!! chapter 1 is up now on ao3 go read it it's so fun!

Everything I’ve wanted

Summary:

Nino really didn't mean to get himself tangled up in the life of someone like Adrien Agreste. But it was kind of hard to say no to dating him, even if it was all fake, when he learned that Adrien was more than just a hot model. He was funny and kind and patient and a great listener – but definitely nothing more than a fake boyfriend.

Excerpt below the cut!

Nino was kind of regretting coming to this bar. It had just opened and it had seemed cool at first, but the music sucked and he was bored. He’d only had one drink and was already debating just calling it a night as he waited at the bar for another drink. This bar was weird, anyway. Some kind of rich, exclusive-type deal, he was pretty sure? He’d been excited at the idea of going out and trying something new. He usually did with Alya and Marinette, but they’d both moved to New York for work months ago, and as happy as he was for them, he was lonely without them. He’d made the impulse decision on his night off to come here.

He wished he hadn’t now, after waiting outside of this bar for an hour and paying an insane cover to get in and now being bored and hating the music. He’d finish this drink he was waiting for, he decided, and then probably just head home.

The last thing he expected was for someone – a blond, green-eyed, drop-dead gorgeous someone – to come up to him. “I need a huge favor.”

Nino stared back at him. “Who are you?”

The man grinned, eyes shining. “Someone who’s about to be incredibly grateful for your help. Do you see that girl behind me who’s, like, definitely staring at me right now?”

Nino looked over his shoulder, and there definitely was a girl watching them. “Yeah?”

“I’m trying to be nice, but I’m not into her, and she won’t leave me alone. I may have told her you were my boyfriend. And she didn’t believe me.”

Nino snorted. The entire idea that this hot stranger was his boyfriend was laughable – Nino had barely even started coming out as bi, let alone flirting with boys enough to get a boyfriend. And this guy was definitely out of his league. “Well, because you’re a liar.”

“I happen to be a very famous liar and I promise I’ll make it worth your time if you play along.” He clasped his hands in front of his chest. “Please?”

Nino leaned on the bar. “Yeah? What do I get out of it?”

The man shrugged. “A kiss, maybe. If you want it.”

“Tempting,” Nino said, and he was only half joking. This guy was cute. The bartender was back with his drink, and, well, he had an idea. “You buy the rest of my drinks tonight.”

“Done.”

“Well then, babe,” Nino said, holding out the glass. “Here you go.”

“For me? You shouldn’t have.” He glanced at it. “Like, really, you shouldn’t have. What is that?”

“Um. Alcohol?”

He stuck out his tongue. “I mean, I’ll obviously cover your tab, but that looks disgusting.”

“You don’t even know what it is.”

“Yeah, I’m getting something else.”

Nino watched him flag down the bartender and order himself a drink (some stupid seltzer that totally made sense for him to drink). “Do I at least get to know my boyfriend’s name?” he asked when the man turned back to him, drink in hand.

“Adrien.”

“That’s a lot of syllables.”

“Excuse me? It’s not that long.”

Nino shrugged. “You need a good nickname. I’ll come up with something.”

“Mm-hm. Do I get to know your name?”

“You should’ve asked before you asked me out. Honestly, I’m not convinced this isn’t some super convoluted pick up line.”

“While I would absolutely use a pick up line as complicated as this, it’s unfortunately real. That girl seriously won’t leave me alone.” Adrien stole a glance over his shoulder and turned around quickly when he realized she was still staring. “Like, really? How has she not figured out I’m not interested?”

“You don’t like girls?”

“I just don’t like her, really. And she’s just so drunk. It felt weird.”

“Well, I appreciate you not flirting with girls at bars,” Nino joked.

Adrien blinked back at him. “What?”

“Because we’re dating?” Nino explained, giving Adrien a playful shove. “C’mon, Dri, you gotta keep up.”

[greentrickster]

One of the risks of the current situation that wasn't present in the canon universe is that there are a decent number of people in power who know about the miraculous and - more importantly - the general sort of item they disguise themselves as when not activated. Meaning that Chloe suddenly deciding to sport a comb in her hair after the bee miraculous has been stolen and someone has been seen using it could get her caught instantly, especially since the person she stole it from was her mother.

Fortunately, the bee's disguise form is a bit more subtle for Chloe than it is in canon (since she's not actively trying to be known as a hero in this setting), and it turns a golden colour with an elegant little bee mixed in with a lot of filigree. This is also where it comes in handy to have a major fashion designer as the head of your resistance. Gabriel gets a couple combs made that look like the bee miraculous's disguised form when Chloe wears it, sends them home with her to get people used to her wearing a hair comb openly, but so that if her parents notice and make her hand it over, it's safe to do so because it's just a regular comb. This turns out to be a good call, because it absolutely gets yanked out of her hair the first time her mother spots her wearing it.

a_real_nowhere_man Nino being Chaotic Good makes a lot of sense. I kind of want to hear more about the shenanigans that ensue that would lead to Nino being an enabler, how was it discovered that he does not in fact count as adult supervision?

Thanks! And he's one of those chaos gremlins who tends to fly under the radar because he doesn't tend to start chaos, but he absolutely encourages it if it's to his taste. Shady wants to use Claw as a projectile weapon? Bet you can't throw him to the roof of that building. Claw's expressing his hatred of pigeons? Nino's making an AMV of pigeon videos with a killer score just for him to send next time Claw's being a pain. Chloe's shirking a little bit to fix her make-up? Nino's always wanted to be more beautiful (I'd say just regular beautiful but, let's be real, boy already is beautiful).

Alya can be a lot of fun too, but she's very detail-oriented and the sort to triple-check her sources; she's very much the first mate to Hesperia's captain. Nino's the heart of the group, though, with a baseline positive attitude that's very comforting (especially to Gabriel since, you know, constantly-on empathy powers). A good resistance needs a lot of planning and order, but a great one also needs a bit of benevolent chaos, and Nino's here for that.

It's also why, when Gabriel gives Chloe a couple spare combs (so she can say it's a set and actually wear more than one at once if she wants, helping to hide the bee miraculous in plain sight even further), and she gives one to Nino as a sort of 'here, we're friends now' token, he does stick the comb in his beanie and start wearing it.

(Note: Chloe and Sabrina aren't friends in this AU, as Lila joined the school much earlier in this timeline and managed to steal her away to be her flunky instead of Chloe's. Also, the reveal about Lila from the end of season five is non-canon in this AU, just because that was a push too far for my personal suspension of disbelief to handle.)

Anyway, the point is, Nino is Chloe's favorite of the new group and Alya can't even be fully mad about it because, frankly, he's everyone's favorite in the group. Well, except for Hesperia; Gabriel doesn't play favorites with the group (and if he had to pick a favorite kid it would be his son, anyway, though he is rather fond of Claw as well).

[jacquesthepigeon]

I know I'm not saying anything new or groundbreaking, but if you think about it, the writers really don't know how to incorporate characters into the narrative unless it is for pointless romantic drama or to be manipulated by Lila.

I'd say the treatment Luka and Kagami got in season 5 is the best example of it.

Kagami got to keep appearing because they used her as, say, a sort of catalyst for Lila's "solo villain" arc. Never mind it made no sense because Kagami had already been akumatised by her actions and was quite literally in Chat Noir's arms when he said she couldn't be trusted back in Oni-chan, or even the fact that after Protection that friendship served no further purpose other than Kagami informing Lila she wasn't invited to the Diamonds Ball because she was a nobody. Because, let's face it, they really didn't need to drag one of the best characters through the mud like that for something that could have been done by either Chloé (by virtue of being Lila's willing accomplice and haughty enough to brag about such a thing) or Gabriel (who at that point was quite done dealing with the brat he himself gave power to in the first place).

And aside from that, she also kept appearing for two reasons: her original, lingering feelings for Adrien and the fact that their parents wanted them to end up together kept feeding the Adrienette drama, and then she got her own share when her character was basically retooled into Félix's girlfriend and willing accomplice.

Compare it to Luka's situation. His only real major role was in Migration because his supportive and mature personality meant he was no longer involved in the romantic aspect of the show, and it would have been even more egregious to have him fall for Lila's lies when he is a living lie detector thanks to his ability to hear people's inner music. Notice how the two have NEVER interacted.

And what happened to him? He was unceremoniously booted for the remainder of the season (except the finale, I guess) despite his very important role of being Ladybug and Chat Noir's secret secret-keeper, which was admittedly a much more compelling angle than "Adrienette: The Star-Crossed Lovers" or "How to Use a Lying 14-Year-Old to Justify Your Terrorist Abusive Father Villain Being Redeemed" routes the season took.

God, this got long.

Legit they had no clue what to do with them and honestly I’m grateful Luka got shipped off to learn magic kung fu in Brazil when the alternative was the huge fucking mess they made with Kagami

If I’d had my way and Adrien was involved with the plot, Kagami (alongside Nino) could’ve served as support for figuring out their parent’s’ evil plans and putting a stop to them. No Lila, no arranged marriage, no Felix, just her and her buds uncovering Evil Secrets.

Similarly, I’d have had Luka (alongside Alya) serve as support for Marinette as she figures out Guardian stuff without the deadbeat daddy drama

[rachelsshowerthoughts]

Far too sleepy to conjugate this Aware AU thought but given the kids evolving understanding of their own status as victims and the specifics of their abuse and their parents actions.

I do wonder if Chloe picked up on some of the scummier stuff indicated by Andre's actions?

Like, on one hand's she'd definitely know 'something' is off once she's keyed into the fact he does not care and just throws money at her until he wants her around for a photo op or to play pretend.

But I don't think she'd necessarily key into the fact his enabling of her lifelong Audrey imitation comes from more than negligence. Which I maintain is does cos we know he made some efforts to...

'Parent'

At least in the sense he gave her advice on school elections and would sometimes be cajoled into helping with stuff like that. None of it requiring ay emotional labor on his part of course, nor actually effective parenting, but it was something of an attempt.

Thus, given Chloe's impersonating has last for years but also subtly shifted in how its directed at Andre, that feels deliberate.

One can argue it was unconscious, but still required decisions.

Anyway point being, I am unsure she'd realize that side of things right off the bat, but instead have it as some kind of rude awakening. Like she thought she had all this on lokc and understood.

Her mom is hateful & cruel and never loved her, enjoys hurting her as much as anyone else & does not want her to succeed or outshine her.

Her father is selfish and only superficially cares, he only wants a daughter when it suits him & otherwise just wants her out of the way.

Then this realization hits, maybe just life stuff, maybe the lead in to that scene I shared with Adrien & Nino & her storming in, maybe due to an alt Maladiktator or someone else notes it?

Madame Bustier taking Andre out 'for' Chloe still rings to me as her identifying the main issue at the very least, though how much she knows or thinks is up in the air.

...

Gosh this is grim, even the most charitable read to Andre is fucked up.

Cano you believe I got her cos I realize Maladikator probably wouldn't happen as Chloe would not want Audrey to stick around?

Added note:

Cousin not required but just imagining one of the club members, maybe for fun points Lila, overhearing Bob Ross's "My talent-less son!" and just being like, "We are no longer only recruiting fourteen year old's, welcome our newest member, XY!" - "How did they get here so fast?" - "Trade secret." (Miraculous)

(May your sleep be peaceful! This will still be here if you want to respond later!)

I think Chloé would take a while to get the . . . I don’t know, depth? Of her father's fucked up-ness? Cause, like.

Ok, the way I see it - Emilie disappears. Adrien starts falling apart, and Chloé is the only one really there to pick up the pieces. In addition, let's say that summer was some kind of show or event, that meant Chloé was also dealing with both her mom and dad A LOT. So, as Adrien is having realizations about HIS dad (with grief as the catalyst), it triggers Chloé's realizations about HER parents. I imagine there's some shouting matches (maybe they want Chloé to be at some event, Chloé is refusing cause Adrien needs her, there is screaming, Chloé doesn’t go, backlash, etc,etc,) but with Audrey, the realization happens all at once.

Chloé always KNEW, on some level, that Audrey doesn’t care about her. It might have taken different forms, but this is where Chloé would realize it’s more than that. Audrey doesn’t just not like her, she straight up doesn’t LOVE her. The only care Audrey has for Chloé is as a possession. And this is a horrible thing to realize, it fucks Chloé up, but it also isn’t exactly NEW information. Chloé is AWARE her mother doesn’t like her, she just thought that, before, it was something she could change, could do something about. Now she knows that she can't do anything, so fuck it! Screw you, Mom, I'll do what I want! (I imagine Chloé hits that "manic energy, let's-fuck-shit-up!" phase of a breakdown, and then just keeps periodically ending up there. Makes a bonfire of all the shoes her mom has ever sent her - or sends them all to charity, whichever would piss her off more.)

But André would be harder, because even if he DOESN'T actually love Chloé, he's much better at acting like he does. And Chloé would have some genuine affection for him, so I think it would take longer. Maybe go through stages?

Like, at first, Chloé sees her dad as a coward. He bends to everything Audrey (or Chloé) wants, never really stands up for himself. Chloé is MAD at him, for not seeing how damaging Audrey is, for always bending to her will. She wants to spend as little time with him as possible, because he keeps trying to play "peacemaker", and Chloé is furious. Can’t he see what she's doing!? What she's ALWAYS been doing!? Why take HER side, isn’t Chloé his daughter!? Does that matter at all!? How dare he, how DARE he-!!

But, again, André is the parent who actually shows affection, and who Chloé spends most of her time with (vs Audrey, who only shows up when it suits her. I imagine André at least made token efforts to be there for Chloé, regardless of motivations). That confuses Chloé, cause she's thinking of "abuse" (not that she's calling it that) within a specific context. Audrey, Gabriel, Tomoe . . . there are differences, but on some level, all are strict control freaks, who need everything to go their way. As long as André is getting the attention he wants, he's much more flexible, so he muddled things a bit. So Chloé thinks about it, and she's spending time with Adrien, Kagami, Sabrina, and . . . ok, hear me out.

Marinette has, at some point, been brought in as Kagami's friend, and at least now is AWARE of the home lives of everyone else. And she's horrified, but she also introduces the idea that maybe André or Emilie were victims too. Cause the thing about abusive relationships, is that it’s someone conditioning you to react a certain way, to not realize something is fucked up. Most people IN abusive relationships don’t realize that the relationship they are in is abusive, cause most don’t start out that way. It’s slow, incremental changes you don’t realize are happening, until someone is looking in from the outside like "WHAT THE FUCK, how did you not NOTICE!?", but it was so slow, you didn’t notice at all, until the knife was at your throat. And Marinette is enough of an optimist (plus full of misplaced guilt) that she desperately doesn’t want BOTH parents of her friends to be abusive jackasses, so what if André and Emilie are trapped in these relationships? What if they need rescuing?

And Chloé ALSO wants that, so now she starts seeing her dad through that lens too. And I can see it leading WEIRD PLACES, cause now Chloé feels she has to PROTECT HER DAD. So, she's spending more time with him, she's trying to subtly hint about divorce, she's getting into screaming matches with Audrey, defending her dad, cause at least he was THERE when she was growing up!! Audrey, of course, sees it as a challenge, so starts getting André to take her on more dates, spend more time together, which Chloé does her level best to sabotage - can't have her dad stuck with HER! André, meanwhile, is soaking all this up. His wife and daughter, fighting for his attention? It’s really feeding his ego, to feel this important, so he starts INCITING these incidents himself. What does he care how it’s hurting anyone else, it’s proving how IMPORTANT he is, isn’t it?

I can see Chloé eventually getting Akumatized, to go after Audrey (defend, have to defend), and André trying once again to mitigate the situation - it’s all okay, dear! It just means we love each other! So, Akuma!Chloé tries to use her powers to show him Audrey DOESN'T love them, and. Well. That . . . does happen. Both André and Chloé can see, feel, that Audrey doesn't love them. But. Well, André KNOWS that. He gets that Audrey doesn’t love him, but still deems him important to her, and that’s what feeds his ego. While Audrey knows that André loves her as a status symbol, as something to boost himself, which she deems acceptable, as it allows her to control him.

But the connection works both ways, so. Chloé can feel how much Audrey doesn't love her, but aLeo how André DOESN'T actually love her. Can feel how shallow it is, how thin, how it's tied into his own ego and pride. She can feel from both of them, how there isn’t any love, any care, for Chloé herself as more than anything but a possession. And even if, on some level, she knew that, it’s different to having it CONFIRMED.

And with that connection still in place, both Audrey and André can feel Chloé's heart shatter as her love for them dies and turns to despair . . . and neither of them understand it at all.

The "fight" afterward can barely be called that. It’s Chat Noir holding Akuma!Chloé as she breaks down, while Ladybug gently breaks the item, casts the cure. When the Akuma is purified, André, of course, tries to patch things up - are you ok, dear? See, your old man is fine! - but this time, Chloé doesn’t even let him get close. She turns, walks away. Cause, those Akumatized might not remember much, but big moments? Emotional moments? They remember those, so Chloé remembers. She remembers the sensation, the feeling, of knowing her parents don’t love her. That to them, it’s all a game they want to win. Well, fine then. If they want to play that game, go ahead. Have fun. Enjoy yourselves. It clearly matters more than she does, so that’s it. She's out. Chloé isn’t playing this game anymore.

She's done.

(Chloé calls XY, asks her cousin if she can chill on his couch for a few days. XY, just freed from his dad, says sure, is everything cool?

Not even 24 hours later, XY is calling up the lawyer who helped him get out from under his dad. Does he know anyone with a background in custody battles?)

@tumblingxelian