#ethical consumption under capitalism

[racefortheironthrone]

on: "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism," would you agree to the corollary that: "and there CAN be no ethical consumption under capitalism" or is there some meliorist path towards ethical consumption under capitalism

As a social democrat, I'm very much a believer in "meliorist" solutions and deeply skeptical of the undistributed middle. It is a matter of historical fact that capitalism can function in a number of ethical "registers," and anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sucker you into pseudo-revolutionary defeatism.

There is a real difference between completely unrestrained dark Satanic mills powered by child labor and slave cotton and a fully-realized social democratic mixed economy, complete with tripartite bargaining and co-determination, economic planning organized through a jobs state and decommodified/nationalized economic sectors including a social democratic welfare state, and a robust regulatory state that can enforce safety and environmental and labor standards at home and abroad - and there are many different points along that spectrum.

My main critique of the whole "ethical consumption under capitalism" thing is that the variant of it that stresses individual consumer behavior is a total fantasy.

It is simply impossible to exert pressure on capitalist systems on your own, or even through ad hoc or single-issue boycott efforts. You need social movements like the National Consumers League that combine mass mobilization with permanent infrastructure, those movements need to be in coalition with the labor movement and civil rights movements, all of them need a regulatory state with the capacity to enforce its will on corporations - and that state needs them as countervailing forces against corporate lobbyists.

[normal-thoughts-official]

Please stop seeing politics as an identity and start seeing it as a collective means for change

[onetwistedmiracle]

No ethical consumption under capitalism

I know.

I know there is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism. I do. But I still have to fucking try, yeah? I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart or a Hobby Lobby in years, you know? It isn't my responsibility to fix everything but I am still required to help. I'm exhausted but I'm trying.

But I have an offer for a free 45 days of Sam's Club membership and I am sorely tempted. I have to host thanksgiving and buy holiday gifts on a modest salary. The closest Sam's Club is in my town, while the closest Costco is over an hour away.

I could use some arguments, either way. Philosophical, political, financial, religious, hit me with opinions. What should I do?

[runedscope]

Sex is a way to sell more bodies for big genome. Dont fall for its siren call

[gghero]

9 hours 9 persons 9 doors is possibly the funniest game on replay for many reasons but my underrated comedic bit of knowledge is the mystery of how the Kurashikis got all the money to run the second nonary game because at some point if you remember the door 4 santa dialogue you gotta just conclude "it was probably gambling right I mean if I had postcognitive esp I would absolutely cheat at gambling" but then on replay you look at that scene and the options youre presented with and the implication is actually like "dont be ridiculous. gambling is stupid. we OBVIOUSLY used the postcognitive esp to cheat at the STOCK MARKET what kind of idiot are you"

[the-badger-mole]

So we all know that that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and to a certain extent, we have to acknowledge that our way of life is dependent on the suffering of others. Fortunately, it seems there are people who are pushing against that. If you're in the market for a new phone, I urge you to check out the Fairphone 4. It's made using ethically sourced materials and designed to be modular, so you can make repairs at home- which means if you crack your screen, or the battery stops working, you don't have to buy a whole new phone. I know the world is becoming more and more aware of the horrific conditions being suffered by people in places like DRC to make our smart devices. You can use your buying power to make a change.

I am personally not in the market for a new phone just yet, but if you are looking to get a new phone, I encourage you to look into ethically sourced phones and other tech. If you already have a Fairphone, please reblog this and talk about your experience. Be honest. Give the pros and cons so people can make informed decisions. We can't immediately stop all of the horrors that capitalism has brought on the world, but we have the power to make smaller choices where we can to mitigate the harm done.

Fairphone's main company seems to operate in Europe (website here), but if you are looking to buy in the US and Canada, check out their partner site, Murena (website here).

[thatdiabolicalfeminist]

I do actually think that people should learn what "no ethical consumption under capitalism" really means before they just thoughtlessly repeat it whenever they don't want to even think about the harm caused by some item's production.

Like look it up!! Pick a random product that's a staple of your life and find out who is exploited and what environmental harm is done by its sourcing and processing and distribution. Find out the real, human and environmental cost of something that feels necessary to you.

Then look up the alternatives. Try to find a version that doesn't harm people or the environment. Struggle with the way corporations work hard to keep these harms secret and realize most of what we actually know is only public because activist groups raised the alarm.

Pick another item. And another. Let it really, really sink in what it means that you cannot live under capitalism without being complicit in harm. That "no ethical consumption" is not just a catchphrase to get out of caring.

And now think about how you could contribute, in however small a way, to protecting the people and environments that get destroyed for the products you rely on.

[vampyrfagg]

my fav thing that nonvegans do is say vegans r hypocritical bc "they dont even care abt (marginalised group) involved in the production of (non-animal product food)" like yeah? the one you also eat? and tell me what r u doing to help these people 😁🎤

[racefortheironthrone]

What, if any, responsibility is on the consumer? / any way to utilize their drop in a bucket infouence for the positive?

Well, as I suggested, it's by working with social movements, if only by acting in solidarity with them. My point wasn't that consumers have no power, but that they don't have power as individuals - economic systems are just too big for that to be the case.

And while it's possible to have genuinely spontaneous collective action, usually the difficulties of coordination require some sort of organization for collective action to be effective. Hence why social movements exist.

[ahappydnp]

I am rewatching the mukbang vid and I am so soft for Phil saying he didn’t want dapg to end ❤️‍🩹 The gaming channel is truly his baby

people give phil so much shit for being no thoughts head empty only vibes but the man just knows what he wants. he said "hey i really enjoy getting lots of money from having hehe silly fun time with my bestie"

[local-hellhound-steals-spaghetti]

According to “Mass Animal Deaths Heat up Fight To Permanently Halt SeaWorld Operations” by Inside the Magic, bird conservation organizations are literally begging SeaWorld to stop their fireworks shows because of how many native birds they’re killing. But go ahead keep acting like their rescue operations justify all the harm/trauma they caused to the wild cetaceans they captured and the wildlife they continue to put in harm’s way in the name of human entertainment. Using ur large platform to assuage ppl’s guilt about spending their money at seaworld *directly* perpetuates this harm. I don’t know how you call yourself a proponent of animal welfare and then support this mega corporation that puts profits above all else

Hi there it seems like you think that I support corporate SeaWorld and all the decisions it makes. I am against a lot of things that SeaWorld does.

This includes: setting off fireworks, building roller coasters instead of updating animal habitats and the cruel layoffs that they inflicted on their employees during COVID.

I agree with the letter put forward, San Diego Audubon did a great job documenting the very real impacts of fireworks on seabirds. Firework events like the 4th of July and New Years Eve are extremely stressful for all animals - as detailed in the letter there were also illegal fireworks along with the firework shows in the City of San Diego and SeaWorld.

SeaWorld stopping their fireworks shows in favour of something potentially less impactful like a drone show would be a great start, but fireworks shows - legal or illegal, would continue regardless. Whether that would reduce the impact or not remains to be seen, but I think SeaWorld should stop their firework shows.

The problem is, it is a corporate company that wants to give people want they want so they buy tickets. Guests like fireworks. People expect fireworks on the 4th of July, NYE ect. I personally think we need to evolve as a society and move away from fireworks in general but that’s not a popular opinion.

Now, to your point about impact on wild whale populations, there is certainly not enough data to conclude that populations were unable to recover from the captures.

You can see with this graph that the Southern Residents were able to recover their numbers after the capture periods, but unfortunately populations continued to decline due to other factors. This includes anthropogenic causes like boat traffic and decreasing food supply with increasing dam building and more efficient fishing methods to take more Chinook Salmon from the orcas. And ongoing effects of bioaccumulation of toxins like PCBs and DDTs.

Some scientists argue that the population decrease from capture resulted in less competition and increased survival rate. Others say that the impacts are still being felt today. There’s not exactly a consensus on it because it’s hard to measure the effects.

While I disagree with corporate SeaWorld and a lot of decisions they make, I will continue to support the work of SeaWorld’s team of marine mammal specialists and veterinarians. And support accredited facilities that are able to create positive welfare states for their animals, even if the conditions aren’t perfect. I have no issue with animals entertaining people as long as the animals have agency and choice and show positive welfare states.

Whether you like it or not SeaWorld just have more money and resources than most other facilities simply due to their ability to appeal to a wide demographic (including people who like fireworks) - that sells tickets. And yeah a portion of that goes to CEO salaries and stakeholders (not nearly enough goes to the workers). But having that luxury of that much money means getting high end diagnostic equipment, paying for medications, antibiotics, scans, developing new technologies to assist in rehab and rescue work, pay staff to work in shifts for standing in the stranding pool to hold up a baby dolphin.

That’s why they’re usually in the front lines of rescue work, often collaborating with other rescues. Because their resources are invaluable to the rescue and rehabilitation of marine animals.

These resources are also giving scientists the ability to collect baseline data and compare to wild populations - and develop technologies and test these with animals in human care before using it in field work.

I disagree with a black and white approach to animal welfare and find it to be detrimental in the long term. Welfare is an evolving state that is always in flux and depends on a variety of factors.

SeaWorld’s fireworks contributed to seabird deaths - but not acknowledging that even if SeaWorld stopped their fireworks, there would continue to be fireworks on the 4th of July that would continue to cause bird deaths isn’t helpful to protecting seabirds.

SeaWorld have rescued, rehabbed and released or provided a permanent home for over 40,000 animals. It was funded by the same company that also put on fireworks shows. The two facts can exist side by side. A company can cause harm while also creating positive change.

The reality of capitalism is that to rescue animals you need to have the resources to do so. People visit SeaWorld to ride roller coasters and ignore the animals (which I can never understand) - yet it is the ability to appeal to a wide demographic that makes money and that money is what can be used for incredibly important conservation and rescue projects.

However, I would still say all of that wouldn’t matter if the welfare of the animals in their care was extremely poor. Which, based on their ability to achieve multiple levels of high standard accreditation like AZA and other signs of positive welfare in basic observation , doesn’t seem to be the case.

I encourage anyone to try to take a more nuanced approach to animal welfare and never just accept something at face value. And if you don’t like SeaWorld, that’s okay! There’s a lot of ethical discussions to be had. But I can only convey the experience and knowledge that I have in both research, hands on practical cetacean welfare experience and general experience and understanding of how marine mammal facilities operate.

[femme-dor]

“SHEIN kills our planet & uses child/migrant labor” she types from her latest iPhone after finalizing her Amazon order & driving her gas powered vehicle to the mall for NIKES.

“Theyre evil and unethical!! THRIFT INSTEAD!!”

A Depop notification pings. Her $200 Kmart Jeans has arrived.

[artemis-howl]

I want to buy some leather conditioner for my boots and I try to shop from small local businesses when I can, but all the local leather/supply/western stores are like here's a leather holster for your gun it's called "The Patriot" here's a Facebook post from a local duck call business that says "the blood of the patriot is freedom's seed" and the duck call is red white and blue here's a weird meme we reposted about the behavior of modern women like wtf is it better to give my money to an exploitative corporation and it's billionaire owners or to these weirdo men who live in my city and are signalling concerning beliefs that indicate racism and misogyny?

[the-entity-down-the-street]

Just had a conversation with my friend like

"I shop on Amazon, I know it's not very ethical..."

"Fam, it's hard to shop ethically when you have no car, and it's more expensive. If ethical shopping isn't accessible, it's still not ethical."

Like, can we stop shitting on poor, disabled, working class people for using the easiest service we currently have? Not everyone has the ability to shop local or organic. Sure you can thrift, and my friend does, but that still requires transportation. Making a big stink about ethical shopping means nothing if you're not going address the class disparities that make it the more inconvenient option. Jesus.

[ruelpsen]

It's disappointing seeing people continue to choose to get food for stuffings from places on BDS boycott lists (McD's being the most common one I've seen) but man, despite my disappointment I'm not surprised I keep seeing it. Some of y'all still can't boycott Chik-Fil-A and we've known about their shady homophobic shit for YEARS.

[skepticalpigeon]

This may be a bad feminism take but....

I think part of the reason it's so common that people harp on about lab-grown diamonds for jewelry and how unethical blood diamonds are is (at least subconsciously) because it's women recieving the diamonds, even if they don't buy them. It's women asking for diamonds and oftentimes women defending "blood diamonds", and women who are judged for wanting mined diamonds. And I wonder if the backlash against this rather than other issues might be due to the fact that the consumer is mainly women, and women are often socially discouraged from being selfish or greedy, while no similar pressure is applied to men on a wider basis. Because God forbid a woman want a status symbol, or to feel powerful and important, or just to exercise her will over others the same way men do without (as much) judgement. I don't think blood diamonds are ethical and I'm not arguing that they are, but I think of all the wrongs in our supply chain, this is one people get disproportionately hung up on.