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ffcrazy15 · 11 months ago

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Y'know...

I'm kinda getting just...burnt out, man. I don't know what it is, but the fanfic community these last few years has just been really difficult to engage with. There are a lot of reasons, but I think among the biggest is this: (warning: long vent incoming):

So. I've been writing fanfic for...gosh, fourteen years now. And back in the day, we had our fair share of problems, I won't lie. Now I came in after the major flame wars of the '00s, but still, there were the shipping wars and the shit-stirrers and the people who took other people having a different opinion on their faves WAY too personally.

But! There were rules of engagement. People might not have always followed them, but back then you could say to someone, "hey, you're not behaving in the way we all agree people should behave in this space. You're being a jerk." And people would either lose their shit at you and you'd block them, or they'd apologize and not do the rude thing moving forward.

This went especially for new writers/readers. They'd make a mistake, people would inform them, and they wouldn't make the mistake again moving forward. That was how we built a health community back then.

*Now: a disclaimer. I know not all new fans are like this, and to those of you who do listen when people inform you of the etiquette of fandom spaces, I want to give a sincere thank-you. The following does not apply to you.

However, and not to be an old woman yelling at the kids to get off her lawn, but:

I see people trying, politely, to tell newcomers the basic rules of engagement for how to interact in fandom. "Don't complain about things that are clearly marked in the summary or tags." "Do not get into dumb shipping wars. Ship and let ship." "Don't leave harsh or unasked-for concrit." "Don't demand updates in the comments."

And instead of saying "Oh wow, sorry, I didn't know about that, I'll do better next time"—I see some new folks responding with things like "Well this just makes me NEVER want to comment/engage/participate!"

And writers are so scared of not getting ANY engagement in this landscape of already dwindling comments and reblogs—or worse, ruining things for other writers—that they immediately capitulate and say oh, we're sorry, we shouldn't have told you you were being rude, please don't stop commenting on fics, we were in the wrong.

And I'm here to say: No. Enough! It is our job as the older citizens of this space to set the expectations for community behavior. If the new arrivals get mildly embarrassed for being politely informed (key words there) that they've committed a faux pas, then that's okay! It's a growing experience. Learning how to be polite in new social settings isn't traumatizing them or causing them emotional harm. They will survive the couple seconds of embarrassment, and then they will go on to be kinder and more conscientious citizens of the digital landscape.

Now, if you're a newcomer who is intimidated by people telling you the rules of etiquette in fandom spaces:

Look. I get it. I was new to fandom once, and I know that that can be intimidating! But sometimes there are going to be situations where you will be new to a social setting and have to awkwardly feel things out, and you will make mistakes and be corrected by others. That's just part of life. Thankfully, fandom is a space where folks have really tried to cultivate clear rules of engagement and want to hand it on to new people! There are guides on the "ao3 etiquette" tag of how to leave polite comments and interact in fandom, and there are lots of people who will help you learn the ropes if you ask them nicely.

I promise you, you have the ability to learn the rules of social etiquette in this online space. You will be able to emotionally withstand the minor embarrassment; all of us have before you, and you will too. And if you are not able to emotionally handle someone politely taking you aside and informing you that you're making some social mistakes and how to fix them, then you are not mature enough to participate in fandom spaces.

Now, for folks who've read this far and would like some quick tips on fandom etiquette, here they are. Remember, none of this advice is meant as a criticism, and if you've done some of these things without knowing better, then that's okay, we all make mistakes! This is simply to help us all have a good time in this space and build each other up as readers and writers!

"Don't like, don't read." — The most important rule of fandom. If you come across a fanfic that has something in the summary or the tags that you don't like, then do not click on that fic. If you do choose to read it anyway, you have no right to blame the author for your reading something you didn't enjoy.

"Dead Dove: Do Not Eat." — A more extreme version of "Don't like, don't read," this means that there is content in the fic that most people would find disgusting, frightening or morally objectionable. Do not read that story if you do not want to read that sort of content.

"Ship and let ship." — Other people will like different ships or romantic pairings of characters than you do. Their doing so is not an insult to you or to the characters in question. If you do not want to engage with stories/fanart/etc. of that ship, then do not read those fics, and block those tags here on Tumblr. Do not go onto other people's fics/art/etc. and tell them that they are wrong for liking that ship (This includes if you find the ship morally objectionable; see "DL:DR" and "DD:DNE" above.)

Tagging – If you are a writer, make sure to tag your story appropriately. This includes the romantic ships (indicated with a slash, / ) and the friendship ships (indicated with an & or the word "and"). It also includes things like graphic depictions of violence, non-consensual or dubiously consensual sexual content, characters who are under the age of eighteen engaging in sexual situations, and major character death. It also includes "Dead Dove: Do Not Eat" (see above), which you should include as a tag if you have content in your fic that the majority of people would find disgusting, frightening or morally objectionable.

Rating – Make sure to rate your story appropriately. If there is explicit sexual content or graphic violence in your story, it should be rated as "mature" or "explicit." Do not label it as "teen" or "general" (or K, K+ or T on FF.net). If there is any sexual content or more-than-cartoon-violence in your story, it should not be rated as "general" (or K or K+).

Bookmarking — Be aware that unless you set the bookmark to "private," the author can read any comments or tags you leave on the bookmark.

Commenting — Almost all writers love comments, and many writers depend on comments for their motivation to continue a story. Leaving comments is both a great way to show a writer that you enjoy their story, as well as provide the writer with motivation to keep writing! A comment can be as elaborate as you like and list every detail you loved about the story, or as simple as "this was good, I really liked it!" Either of those is fine. Keyboard smashes are also fine, as are emojis if you're too shy to write a full comment.

Commenting on Older Stories — Is absolutely fine, and in fact highly appreciated!

Demanding an Update — Do not, however, demand that a writer update quickly or ask them when the next chapter will be. Writers are doing this for free, and demanding an update is considered impolite at best and guilt-tripping at worst. (Examples: saying "This is really good, excited for more!" is fine, since this does not put a timed expectation on the writer. Saying "This is really good, when is the next update!" is considered mildly impolite, and simply writing "Update" is considered highly rude. It is seen as demanding another free gift right after you've received one.)

Concrit/Constructive Criticism — Different writers' mileage will vary on how much they like constructive criticism, so best practice is to check their author's notes, summary, or author page to see if they say they are okay with concrit. If they do not say so, then default to assuming they don't want concrit.

If you do provide constructive criticism, make sure to include at least two compliments as well (preferably more). State the criticism politely and briefly.

Also, be aware that an author might disagree with your advice and choose not to take it. This is not a slight against you personally, and you should not treat it as such.

Do not offer criticism that is not meant to be constructive or help the author grow in their writing skills.

Do not offer "constructive criticism" about you disliking things the author has clearly tagged or noted in the summary. That is not constructive criticism, that is just flaming. (See "DL:DR" above.)

And finally: Never Ascribe to Maliciousness What Can Be Attributed To Ignorance. — If someone is rude to you, remember that they might be new to the space and not be aware of the rules of etiquette. Politely inform them that they've screwed up, and assume that everyone is well-intentioned until they prove otherwise.

And there you have it! By following the above advice, you can help to build up a thriving fan culture of happy writers and happy readers. Remember, we're all here to enjoy our favorite works together and create fan content for them, so let's all work together to create a pleasant digital space for one another. :)

#ao3 etiquette #fanfic writing #fanfic readers #fanfiction #fanfic #fanfic etiquette #fandom etiquette

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la-pou-belle · 1 year ago

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normally I would just put this in the tags of a critical post to keep it concise, but sadly rbs have been turned off! I guess dogpiling sucks when it happens to YOU, right? anyways,

just wanted to say that, yeah, it's proper fandom etiquette to tag things. even if they are only mentioned and then later confirmed to not actually be happening in the fic. That said ,, and before we forget, it is not a REQUIREMENT. Just as it's not a requirement for fic writers to post and share their products at all. Just as it's not a requirement to read and consume then. When people provide completely free services (like, say, writing, editing, and publishing and entire novel), and it's entirely up to you on whether or not to consume those services, it's a little weird to make extra demands, no? And especially to inflate these demands to the point of character assassination; not only dogpiling on the author, but all of the authors fandom friends, leading them to delete all of their soc med and hard crafted works in the process.

so you didn't like someone's fanfiction. and it was POPULAR fanfiction! that sucks. But arguments about transphobia, racism, pedophilia, etc. have already been well disputed in the very post I can't reblog, and I think it's abundantly clear that the author should not be punished for following established canon (i.e. Claw's canonical torture of children and Toichiro Suzuki's openly proclaimed eugenicist goals in taking over the world for "superior" ESPers) to a logical conclusion and for adding a layer of realism to the work.

It's not their fault you, quite frankly, didn't think very hard about what you saw and understood in both S1 and S2 of mob psycho. it sucks that it makes you uncomfortable. But it's not a stranger's job on the internet to completely wash their works of anything that reflect messy and uncomfortable reality to coddle you, a voluntary consumer of their media. And a fan writer absolutely should not be punished for producing a canon-universe work, when you yourself are a fan of the canon. The fan author, very obviously, does not condone transphobia, racism, pedophilia, or any other accused thing, just by depicting it in their freely made and voluntarily consumed fanwork. Just as ONE, very obviously, does not condone the torture of children, or child abuse, just by depicting it in Claw's organization and in Shou and Toichiro's relationship.

All of what I've said is about Side Quest, but it's absolutely disgusting that for some reason, the backlash over that specific fic went over mere criticisms of the work to harassing the author. Not only this, but to use the final chapter of Side Quest, and all of the produced fan art within it, as a blacklist of Twitter handles and social medias to then ALSO harass the authors fandom friends is purely unacceptable behavior. If you want an author to tag their works better, simply ask them to do so; do not harass them and their friends. If you want your "fandom" and "ship" to stay alive, you MUST learn how to dislike things normally and respectfully; otherwise, how can you expect people to continue to produce novels for free? At a minimum, you need to recognize that your fellow fans are real, live people and do not deserve targeted harassment, and if you truly believe them to be dangerous, contact a moderation team and avoid their fanworks.

on a personal level, I'm offended that you think I, and many others who genuinely enjoyed Side Quest, lack media literacy. I've always been a fan of canon compliant and divergent fics that follow canon implications to their logical conclusions, especially when that involves recognizing the problematic and uncomfortable aspects of reality. You may have watched mob psycho uncritically, but I did not, nor did I read Side Quest uncritically. I'm frustrated that these projections have led to more of my little joys and favorite thought-provoking fic becoming inaccessible to me, but mostly... I'm sad that these authors shared their works while not fully understanding how uncritical, reactionary, and ungrateful their audience truly was.

#side quest #kintsugi #silvercistern #mp100 #spicychibi #honestly the world is literally on fire and you guys cant find a better use of your time?#kintsugi was 100k words of PERFECTION and on a personal note. im pissed that you guys are interfering w my little joys.#touch grass. call a legislator. read something else. GET BETTER MEDIA LITERACY YOURSELF.#i spend so much of my day to day doing climate advocacy and organizing and i cant even enjoy updates bto my favorite works #or to reread them #yes. my tags are me personally venting.#xan talks a lot #serirei #mp100 fic

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cazador-rp · 13 hours ago

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it has been a long time since I last role-played (literally years) and I used to do it on Twitter. My question is how does it work on Tumblr? Is the rp in the dms or public via this question box or what?

Thank you if you answer

🦇❤️

Hi! 💞 as far as I've seen most roleplay here on Tumblr happen in public via ask box, you send/get sent any type of roleplay prompt or start of conversation (there are blogs who post rp memes and starters for people to reblog so that others can choose a prompt to send from the list, but it's not always required to wait for a prompt list, you can also send/get prompts and starters without having reblogged a post beforehand) and after the answer to that ask the roleplay moves forward through reblogs

Example: you send me an ask saying "Hi" and I answer to that ask with "Hello", at that point if you want to continue the rp you reblog my answer with your own continuation like "How are you", after which I reblog yours with my own continuation and so on and so forth for as long as we want

If a thread happens to get too long after a while (something that might happen, I once had an rp thread go on for months on another rp blog of mine, it was a monster of a thread) you can also make a new post starting with a "Continuation from" or something along those lines (personally I love to use, "Previously on [Name blog/Title rp thread]" but everyone uses what they prefer) with a link to the previous thread so that it starts anew and it's not too long anymore, and of course you can do that as many times as it's needed

As for roleplaying in private in the dms, to me personally it happened only once. The other blog wanted to try out some triggering themes but didn't want to write those things where everyone else could read them so we ended up roleplaying in my dms

I honestly have no idea if it's a common thing or not, but as someone who grew up roleplaying on F*ceb*ok where most rps happened in private chats (some did happen on public posts but no one wanted to risk posting things that might get reported/banned, especially with the group I used to be in where we would often indulge in dark themes, heavy angst, explicit torture and sometimes even NSFW roleplay between our characters) it's not that weird to me so usually it depends on what my roleplay partner prefers

It's very rare for me to feel embarassed or anxious about roleplaying something so I'm always ok with public rp (and yes, even public NSFW rp, though usually I put those kind of things under the read more thing)

Other than that I guess it can change from person to person, maybe some have a preference for private rp and others for public rp, I've seen some who only accept asks from mutuals and keep anon off, but usually each blog has their own rules posted for those things so it's easy to know

I've also noticed two different ways to divide between muse and mun, some people use the "/" when talking as the mun (ex, *Character does/says something* /Omg this was so fun to write XD <- second part is the mun and not the character, usually put a couple of empty lines under the rp) while others use tags (ex, *Character does/says something* *down in the tags #omfg I can't believe he did that #this was so fun to write tho #your answer was so good #idek wtf is going on anymore* and each reblog adds new tags of their own to talk outside the rp as a sort of conversation), personally I've used both depending on what my rp partner prefers (I adapt quite easily) so use whatever you feel is right for you

Now, I'm not a Tumblr rp etiquette professional so there might be things I don't know/forgot to mention/got wrong, but also it's pretty easy to learn once you get into the right circle, I remember the first time I started roleplaying (both here on Tumblr and before on the Book app) I was basically going in blind and just imitating what everyone around me was doing while barely understanding why they were doing certain things until I started learning by observing and got bolder with my own roleplay so don't worry if you don't understand/know everything right away and give yourself some wiggle room to learn and make mistakes here and there

I hope that was useful, and thanks for asking! I'm happy to be of even a little bit help 🤗💞

#personal #mun answers #out of character

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drill-teeth-art · 9 months ago

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Heeeeeyo I gotta question about when we reblog your art. I tend to comment on it in the tags as to not take away from the art itself, is that how you like it or do you not care? Also, if it has tags like saying what fandom or thing it is in would you want me to keep those in my reblog? If you need clarification about these questions, please let me know :). I tend be ignorant about larger online etiquette so it helps me to ask :)

Comments in the tags is fine! I like those a lot actually they're fun! And leaving the fandom tags in your tags is good too!

But! That's actually not really what the post was about. This post here. I wasn't trying to fish for compliments with that. Not that I don't appreciate the compliments on my work that I got in the tags there I really did! They mean a lot! The point I was trying to make is that this site has been abysmal for artists for a long time and especially lately. That I see desperate commission posts with 100 notes and only 5 reblogs that just aren't circulating. I see amazing pieces that the artist themself is so proud of that aren't circulating because people aren't reblogging. I see folks go through my blog and other artists' blogs liking every single thing they ever posted with zero reblogs or comments left. And while I firmly believe in trying to learn to love your art without outside approval because sometimes people just aren't going to give it to you and you have to figure out for yourself how to keep going, I think it's normal to want validation. To want folks to see your art. To spend a moment with it. To tell you they saw it and liked it.

That post was a cry to say reblog and say you love artists' work before they just decide to not post anymore. I know I'm going to make art for as long as I'm alive. But I'm not going to keep going through the hassle of posting if it doesn't bring in some validation. Questions. Curiosity. Appreciation.

Encourage the artists you love with a reblog or a comment because if you don't they might just stop posting because it's not worth it anymore. And I don't blame them! It only costs a moment of your time to lift another's spirit, and it sucks being around a bunch of people who won't spare that moment to encourage you.

That's what I was saying.

#ask #otto thoughts

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bthump · 1 year ago

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This isn’t specifically about you and more about the anons, because I’ve noticed that you sometimes get requests to respond to meta posts other people make and something about that makes me a bit uncomfortable. Since your meta posts are widely liked by a big part of this community, it sometimes feels like you’re being kinda requested to „debunk“ other meta posts. Diversity in opinions is so important for a good fandom atmosphere and some of the anons you get seem to wanna stir up hostility and I don’t like it. Since I like some of your meta posts, but also find myself agreeing with other people, I just feel weird about this dynamic, you know? How do you feel about it?

I think that's a fair concern but honestly, I don't see it as inherently a problem. This might be my 00s internet bias here lol, but I tend to view meta on a public platform as fair game for response or external commentary - which includes my own posts. My meta is here to be read by anyone who wants to, and to provoke thought and discussion, and that's generally what I assume of others' meta as well.

Like I recognize that attitudes have changed in the era of mostly unmoderated spaces and reblogs and the lack of diverse comms with their own norms and discourse running rampant lol, and so it's often considered automatically rude to disagree with people now, but I think that can only extend so far. Like, I don't reblog posts just to disagree with them (unless they're a friend and I know they're cool with discussion) because I know it sucks when you keep getting notes from people who are liking or reblogging the take you disagree with, but I don't think that should mean not discussing other people's meta at all, as long as it's done respectfully of course.

And I understand why someone might want a second opinion on something they read. I think everyone should think for themselves and form their own opinions, and I completely agree that diversity of opinion is important in any fandom. But not everyone has confidence in their own analysis, or the learned skills for criticism, and I think it's reasonable to seek out other viewpoints and decide which seems most correct to you, or use them as boucing off points to figure out what you believe. I definitely don't want to be the only Berserk meta blog out there, and I'm more than happy to agree to disagree with most people. I'm not an authority on the story lol and people are free to agree or disagree with me however they see fit.

That said, I'm always a little wary about tone and intent, especially in Berserk fandom, because I'm not here to get into arguments and I try to make that clear. But I take most asks in good faith. Sometimes I might go a little too far with that lol, but honestly I'd rather come across as naive than hostile. If I found out that someone was trying to start a fight between me and someone else, or was using my posts to dunk on someone else, or if followers of mine took it as a cue to harass someone, I'd absolutely say something and stop answering those asks. (Hopefully we're all chill enough over here that this doesn't happen, btw. As far as I'm aware I've never incited anything like that and I've personally only ever seen fandom arguments started by people mad about Griffith fans existing, but tbf I also don't pay attention to whatever's happening outside of my dash.)

But yeah I don't think that's what's happening here, and I don't want to assume someone's trying to start shit unless there's clear evidence for that. Like in the last ask I got like this, the anon did specify that they agreed with the post they wanted me to comment on, and were just seeking more opinions/wondering what my own take was, and I think that's reasonable.

Idk, this is definitely one of those things where I know there are different valid opinions about etiquette. But I generally abide by the 'do unto others' rule, including here. I blog with the expectation that anyone can read what I write and agree or disagree, and that I might inspire other discussion. Sometimes I get nervous about being linked to notably hostile fan spaces, like the berserk reddit, but it has happened with virtually the same motivation as those anons (what do you guys think of this person's take?) and ultimately I'm fine with it, and even a little flattered.

All that said, at the end of the day I do think that it would be best for anyone who sends an ask referencing someone else's analysis to be specific about what they want to know, rather than a general 'what do you think of this?' question. Both because it shows why you're asking and what you're interested in and leaves less room for doubting your motivation, and because it makes it easier to answer.

#ask #anonymous #b #i don't necessarily want to encourage these types of asks so i'm not gonna post that last paragraph separately as a psa #but i don't want to tell anyone to refrain either as long as everyone's being chill about it #this is probably overly long lol but it's a fair concern and i want to address it as thoroughly as i can #theme: fandom

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mercurytomato · 2 years ago

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Oh i love this kind of tags, especially when you guys notice and write something about my arts which i didn't understand or didn't mean to be like this. I mean, in this case, when i started to draw the picture with Noah and the shadow i was just "okay, little people, the bid shadow, and make it all crooked and chaotic." I didn't think about it like this person says! I mean, not in the language of words!! But i meant it through my picture anyway, just through the visual language. And to read this translation is always kind of magic to me, because it means that people can see the idea i subconsciously put into my drawings. Which is haha great!!

Aaaaah love when this kind of things happens 🥰

(and sorry I'm not sure about the tmblr etiquette, is it correct to post someone's tags under reblog, and should i post it with the name or without.... I'm just learning...)

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adj4mp · 4 months ago

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Writing, Blogging, Speaking

Part of the job for any politician is communicating the ideas they have.

They have to persuade people to vote for them.

They have to convince people in parliament that the policies they want are more beneficial than costly.

They have to give speeches and addresses.

They need to represent themselves, their constituents, and their country.

As with my post on practicing reading this blog represents an opportunity to practice my writing. Preparing the things that I would want other people to hear me say.

I try my best to get to the point and be precise. But I worry that sometimes I let things go on for too long.

I am starting to learn about the expectations of the chamber, the rules of etiquette, and the necessity for every individual to recognise other members and their contributions. With everyone doing such things it can be seen as a failure or a slight to forget to do this yourself.

This is why everyone wants to give their input on the king's speech, rarely will speakers have something especially new or enlightening to say on the subject but not giving a speech can be seen as apathy or disdain for proceedings.

If you do not thank or comment on other contributions were you listening? If you cannot comment on the emotional weight someone else brings do you not care? If you only deliver prepared words is it really you that's speaking?

I would be delighted if I could shake politics to the core with my contributions, I certainly have the desire for that, but I have a feeling the required rhetoric and filler is not worth my energy to fight.

I think I'm developing skills, I definitely feel like I am developing my own style and I feel less stiff in my words, though my editing still needs work. I consider structure, metaphor and rhetoric. I may overuse techniques like the rule of three, triplets and some third thing (ha my first intentional joke).

Unfortunately, practice only makes something easier, if you practice something that is wrong you just make it a wrong thing that you can do without thinking. Improvement comes with introspection often aided by external critique.

So what does that mean for my writing practice? More of the same for sure I don't want to uproot my blog completely at this point, it's still providing plenty of opportunities for me to write. I still want to blog my progress and comment on what I'm doing on a given day or discuss my plans, though the amount of planning/housekeeping posts may decrease over time. I will discuss things that matter in the moment filling my queue with posts I don't consider overly time-sensitive but interesting enough to write about. I will continue using this as a diary of my progress and a portfolio of my capacity to do the work.

As for changes, it would be worthwhile to look at my old posts occasionally, there may be times when a reblog with amendments, corrections, new information. I may even rewrite things into more of a parliamentary speech format or argue the other sides of the discussion with myself as I learn more perspectives. This will let me grow as a writer, see how much I've changed but also acknowledge where I've been imperfect.

#politics #adj4mp #self improvement #writing #housekeeping

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kaoarika · 9 months ago

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I feel like I'm the last person to vent/rant about this (because I have made the same "mistake" in the past), but ppl should REALLY learn fandom etiquette on social media, especially concerning "ship hate".

Like, if you dislike a ship SO badly... why even posting it AND tagging it with the ship name? Why even tagging it with the character names? Why QRT'ing a ship fanart with your opinion AGAINST the ship? OR replying it, or reblogging it and basically saying "this is wrong and you are wrong for liking it :)" esp. if the ship means NO harm to YOU? sending anon asks about "this is the low bar, bestie <3, there are better options, i swear". NO ONE ASKED YOUR OPINION, lmao? (especially doing so behind an anon ask)

Also, ALSO... filter your social media experience? The mute/block list for words and tags IS RIGHT THERE! It will make your day better, ifstg.

I know your twt/tumblr blog IS your space and all, but you can also vague about it? You can censor the name of the ships and/or characters, even and the entire website isn't going to track down your post?

It's just annoying me because I have read very silly takes (like, REALLY silly takes) and i'm like, "chill out, this is a fictional ship that is not even canon, my dude? let ppl enjoy their thing instead of invading their spaces and giving them your opinion about them?"

(this isn't even about the an*ti/p*ro discourse, it's your very typical ship discourse???)

I have never seen this type of silly and trivial ship discourse in AGES (maybe the few last fandoms I was in were more chill? or perhaps they are/were more active in twt and I definitely cut my interaction with broader fandoms in anitwt), and it happens to happen in THE ONE popular media I AM into right now.

#kao's nonsenses

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pyjamacryptid · 1 year ago

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Oh I thought you were shipping the bbc versions because a post you reblogged had the x version tagged, glad that’s not the case & thank you for explaining ^^

Lol I had a feeling there was context behind why you asked but I couldn’t fathom what, because I certainly don’t ship them, in bbcm or otherwise 😆 I thought “I may as well infodump about arthuriana like the nerd I am”.

I can totally see why you were confused, though! I’ve been in the same boat lol

The use of the [blank] x [blank] tags have confused me so much recently, if I’m being honest, especially on gifsets and stuff like it. Because when I was first learning fandom etiquette, lingo and what-have-you, the x was equivalent to a / (slash) and indicated a romantic ship. On the other hand, the & (ampersand) indicated a platonic relationship.

After a while, I’ve kind of gathered the ‘x’ is being used, kind of, as a huge umbrella symbol for pairings in general (no matter the relationship)??? Maybe? At least with gifsets etc on tumblr. Idk I’m still a little confused tbh because I still see the X used as I originally learned how elsewhere, all the same. So, with it no longer having an exact definition, I get a little lost lmao. I can imagine there’s likely an archival/tagging reason behind it but I can only guess.

Anyway, yeah! Thank you for sending an ask to clarify before anything else and I’m always happy to answer! 🥰

EDIT:

Because I feel it’s important to say, I just wanted to add that fandom’s use of language and shorthand is open to change like any language is. For example, Spock and Kirk’s romantic ship was (and still is) referred to as simply K/S. Now, it’s also known as spirk. So, from what I’ve seen on Tumblr lately anyway, it’s very likely that the use of the ‘x’ in place of a slash is changing and is no longer definitive to only romance, like it used to be. Also, some people may just not be aware of the meanings behind fandom shorthand too! Always a possibility. Fandom’s always growing and changing and you don’t exactly get a manual at the entrance lol

#I knew incest ships existed im not naive but when I found out people shipped bbcm morgana and Arthur I was like 😰#they’re siblings your honor #but yknow. I’m not about judging or attacking others so. no one turn this post into that please #I won’t be mad. I’ll be Disappointed #also lol thank you anon for giving me context behind your first ask #I was truly like ?????????? I mean yeah? wait is this an arthuriana based thing rather than bbcm? ….. when in doubt infodump?#next time pls provide reason why you’re asking! ^^;;;#but thank you for the ask all the same!#also fun fact in the legends when they ARE siblings they share ygraine as a parent!#bbcm is the only one I’ve seen that makes uther father to both #ren replies #anon

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pespillo · 2 years ago

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i know i just reblogged a tumblr field guide and all but i need to tell you things that ive learned in my 11 years here:

popularity does exist in tumblr but its not guided by how many followers you have it is based on the amount of asks you probably get and the metric of it is that youll get some insane asks in here if you Just Wait, from invasive questions to people asking you what do you think of the death penalty in america when you have a blog about My Hero Academia , to bait questions or copypastas that been passed for half a decade about an user called Amegaotaku that youll have to research to even understand what the hell it means . "Popular" people of tumblr can remake their blogs constantly but what matters is that you have people who Wont Shut Up and engage conversation with you, especially through asks, when people want your attention, theyll probably send you an ask.

this doesnt happen as often as it did in the mid 2010s but embarassing yourselves in public is incredibly easy in this site if you Throw Yourself to the wolves, as in , you impulsively add onto a conversation with an addition thats often done emotionally, carelessly, or literally misinterpreting the intent of a post itself because you took it personally. this literally never goes well especially if you engaged with a post from an user who has Very reactive followers, because while i doubt youll get threats or such, youll still probably get hounded in the replies and this site´s social rules are extremely lax with the words you are allowed to say. While a whole "we need to be kind to eachother" approach IS the reasonable solution, it is much better to not engage with innocous posts that piss you off if you are aware that the average tumblr user doesnt have any tact whatsoever and is bloodthirsty for a punching bag, they are mostly teens after all, and adults that dont have positive social role models. Screenshot the post that pisses you off and talk about it in your own new post to discuss it with your actual fellow people.

if youre gonna be interested in interacting with posts relating to race, politics, gender or such, be expected to at least list your race and gender (or whether youre exempt from transmisogyny or not) , encroaching into intracommunity issues and trying to add or say anything when its none of your business or you literally dont know what it entails is not wise. also posts and listings about how to "listen to (insert marginalized group)! " from teenagers are really unneded here because theres already so many in depth resource posts in here made by qualified activists, historians, researchers and more, and they been shared for years, or twitter/instagram posts have been literally just regurgitating stuff from HERE. NOTE: i reccomend making sideblogs for this stuff, NOT DISCOURSE BLOGS but just sideblogs where youre not just mixing Supernatural posting and Protest Bills for 2023 , or better, keep all your political talk and engagement in your main blog and use a sideblog for fandom, if you get enough followers in any of these your reach for important posts can be bigger, thats why i reblog donation posts or commission posts in here at times.

A lot of posts abt Tumblr Etiquette or whatever will tell you that you need to engage constantly and all and make your own posts and tag everything or else youll be treated as a Bot, but you dont really, when i joined tumblr in 2012 i lurked for 3 years and just reblogged posts without much mind or even posting much, but there was no expectation of me to do anything than to just look around , and its fine, i think if i said anything thru my early teens it would have been a disaster considering how much my late teens were, it would have made it worse, you dont need to say anything if you dont wanna, you dont need to form any sort of persona here or talk to people if its not your thing and youre young or not , maybe you wanna learn the ropes first and learn "the culture" before diving in, maybe you just like to observe what happens without having to participate, whatever it is this site is just what you make of it.

#long post

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cqlfeels · 3 years ago

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@lansplaining encouraged me to finish this random meta nobody asked for, so let's talk about Meng Yao, Meng Shi, and 孟母三遷 (mèng mǔ sān qiān), a proverb about good parenting.

A warning: this is super long (even for me!) and is less quality meta and more my ADHD brain jumping around a maze of loosely related ideas. Proceed with caution!

Let me start by briefly going through why I decided to write this, because it’s important. In haunting Meng Shi’s tag in my starvation for Meng Shi content, I’ve multiple times come across the idea that Meng Shi pushed Meng Yao too hard, that she should’ve been more careful with teaching him to seek his father’s approval at any cost, and that she was too naïve. I’ve never reblogged this kind of post because 1) I personally think it’s rude to go out of your way to ramble about how much you disagree with someone on their own post and 2) if this was an isolated incident I wouldn't care either way, so I didn’t want to direct this rant at anyone in particular. It’s more to do with a tendency, primarily (as far as I can tell) from fans who haven’t had much contact with Chinese culture, to oversimplify Meng Shi and make her relationship with Meng Yao slightly disturbing, and I think part of it is due to CQL basically cutting out her entire storyline (so fans simply don’t have info about her to assess her fairly) and part is due to misunderstanding what a good parent is supposed to act like in the context of Ancient China.

[Of course, Ancient China is not a very useful historical concept, not any more than “ye olde Europe” - things change a lot based on time and place - but you know. It’s fantasy. Extremely broad trends are okay in this case.]

Anyway, the idea behind the posts I mentioned is, basically, that Meng Shi (usually through no fault of her own) is to blame for Meng Yao’s obsession with power, since his desire for approval was inherited from lessons she taught him. Just to start with, I’d argue that Meng Yao isn’t power-hungry as much as he craves security and respect, but that’s a different meta. Let’s assume that she really did teach him to be Like That. Was she wrong to do so? I’m not looking for “does that make for a happy, well-adjusted childhood?” or “would you raise your own son as Meng Shi did?” - I’m trying to figure out, would she have been considered a bad mother in the context of the society she lived in? I don’t think she would’ve.

It is surprisingly hard to find texts about the obligations of parents in Ancient China. Their main obligation is to raise filial children, but I feel like that’s not very useful: whether or not parents are good parents, children are expected to be filial, so a child being filial really says more about the child than about the parent. Maybe the parent completely missed the mark and society at large was what taught the child to be filial!

We can assume, of course, that parents were to raise good people, and that by learning what a good person looked like, we could figure out whether the parent was successful, but once again, I feel like that’s pinning things on the outcome, not on the process - the best of parents can end up with an awful kid and vice versa.

While thinking about all this, it took me a frankly embarrassing amount of time to remember the story of Mother Meng and Meng Zi, but once I did, it wouldn’t leave my mind - in part because the Meng here is the exact same Meng of Meng Shi and Meng Yao (yay! fun if useless parallel!), and in part because this is a story about how a woman can successfully raise a son by herself.

Okay, so important note: one of the most influential ancient Chinese thinkers is Meng Zi (孟子 Mèng Zǐ), who is known in the West as Mencius. If you've never heard of him - he's perhaps second in importance only to Confucius. When Mencius was still a young child, his father died, so he was raised by his mother, who is usually known only as Mother Meng (in Chinese, 孟母 Mèng Mǔ.)

Mother Meng's story is told in Biographies of Exemplary Women (列女傳 Liènǚ Zhuàn), which for around 2000 years beginning around the 18th century BCE, was the most commonly used book used to educate women. The book is divided into sections, each one showing a different way women could be honorable and good. Mother Meng's story is told in the Maternal Models section (母儀傳 Mǔ Yí Zhuàn.) The story has a few parts, some of which I'll quote, always from Kinney's 2014 translation.

Before I go on to quote it, though, I'd like to establish that Mother Meng's story is so, so famous that even if Meng Shi had never read this particular book, I'm almost certain she would've been familiar with at least the outlines of Mother Meng's story. I'm not cherry picking a suitable chapter from the book, I'm literally going with the most famous story in it because Meng Shi would be most likely to know this one if she knew no other story.

Okay, the first part of the tale takes place when Mencius is a young boy and Mother Meng is a widow raising him.

The mother of Meng Ke of Zou [a different name for Mencius] was called Mother Meng. She lived near a graveyard. During Mencius’ youth, he enjoyed playing among the tombs, romping about pretending to prepare the ground for burials. Mother Meng said, “This is not the place to raise my son.” She therefore moved away and settled beside the marketplace. But there he liked to play at displaying and selling wares like a merchant. Again Mother Meng said, “This is not the place to raise my son,” and once more left and settled beside a school. There, however, he played at setting out sacrificial vessels, bowing, yielding, entering, and withdrawing. His mother said, “This, indeed, is where I can raise my son!” and settled there. When Mencius grew up, he studied the Six Arts, and finally became known as a great classicist. A man of discernment would say, “Mother Meng was good at gradual transformation.”

According to the translator's footnote, "gradual transformation" is "a childrearing technique, whereby a child is morally formed through daily exposure to correct models of behavior."

From this story comes the proverb 孟母三遷 (Mèng Mǔ sān qiān) - "Mother Meng moved three times." It's come to mean that a parent - especially the mother of a male child - should spare no efforts to provide an environment that will give their child a good education, paying particular attention to what models are surrounding them.

I'm sure I don't need to say if Meng Shi was at all familiar with this proverb (and she would probably be), she must have been very stressed out over literally raising her son in a brothel. (Here I must mention sex workers in ancient China were often essentially owned by the brothels, so literally "moving three times" wasn't really an option for Meng Shi even if she could miraculously pick up another trade.) Meng Shi did however at least try to surround Meng Yao with the accomplishments appropriate for the son of a cultivator:

Xiao-Meng, are you still learning those things lately? [...] The things your mom wants you to learn, things like calligraphy, etiquette, swordsmanship, meditation… How are those things going? [...] His mom’s raising him as a young master of a wealthy family. She taught him how to read and write, bought him all those swordsmanship pamphlets, and even wants to send him to school.

Meng Yao actually talks a little bit about “those swordsmanship pamphlets” in the only time in canon he directly shares memories about this mother:

Lan XiChen, “Your [guqin] skills are also considered quite fine outside of Gusu. Were they taught by your mother?”

Jin GuangYao, “No. I taught myself by watching others. She never taught me such things. She only taught me reading and writing, and bought a handful of expensive sword and cultivation guides for me to practice.”

Lan XiChen seemed surprised, “Sword and cultivation guides?”

Jin GuangYao, “Brother, you haven’t seen them before, have you? Those small booklets sold by the common folk. First jumbled sketches of human figures, then deliberately mystified captions.”

Lan XiChen shook his head, smiling. Jin GuangYao shook his head as well, “All of them are scams, especially to fool women like my mother and ignorant children. You won’t lose anything by practicing them, but you definitely won’t gain anything either.”

He sighed in a rueful way, “But how could my mother have known this? She bought them no matter how expensive they were, saying that if I returned to see my father in the future, I had to see him with as much competence as possible so that I don’t fall behind. All of the money was spent on this.”

See what’s happening? Meng Shi cannot physically take Meng Yao to cultivators, but she spares no efforts in giving him the closest thing she possibly can -- figuratively, we might say she moved three times.

Of course, these booklets don’t work, but as Meng Yao says, how could she have known this? The cultivation world is very closed off - think of how the entire Mo household gathers to see Lan juniors, and how Wei Wuxian mentions once that “Cultivation families, in the eyes of common folk, are like people favored by God, mysterious yet noble.” Not just noble, but mysterious. That tracks, too - I mean, they live in inaccessible households and mostly leave to night hunt or visit each other, neither of which is an activity that would allow commoners to get much more than an occasional glimpse of them.

Now, if Meng Shi doesn’t even know that a pearl for Jin Guangshan was just a trinket, if she doesn’t know even the wealth of a major sect, how can she read booklets and decide whether that’s genuine cultivation or not? All that she sees is a chance for Meng Yao to be surrounded by the ideas and skills of the people she wants him to emulate - cultivators - and therefore she does everything she can to get him that chance. Mother Meng moved three times.

Okay, but maybe the argument is not “Meng Shi shouldn’t have pushed Meng Yao to cultivation” but rather “she should’ve pushed him, just not too hard." To that, I present another tale from Mencius' childhood:

Once, when Mencius was young, he returned home after finishing his lessons and found his mother spinning. She asked him, “How far did you get in your studies today?” Mencius replied, “I’m in about the same place as I was before.” Mother Meng thereupon took up a knife and cut her weaving. Mencius was alarmed and asked her to explain. Mother Meng said, “Your abandoning your study is like my cutting this weaving. A man of discernment studies in order to establish a name and inquires to become broadly knowledgeable. By this means, when he is at rest, he can maintain tranquility and when he is active, he can keep trouble at a distance. If now you abandon your studies, you will not escape a life of menial servitude and will lack the means to keep yourself from misfortune. How is this different from weaving and spinning to eat? If one abandons these tasks midway, how can one clothe one’s husband and child and avoid being perpetually short of food? If a woman abandons that with which she nourishes others and a man is careless about cultivating his virtue, if they don’t become brigands or thieves, then they will end up as slaves or servants.” Mencius was afraid. Morning and evening he studied hard without ceasing. He served Zisi [a great scholar whose grandfather was Confucius] as his teacher and then became one of the most renowned classicists in the world.

Notice that Mother Meng moved three times to ensure Mencius would have the highest of aspirations - to become a scholar. But just aspiration isn’t enough. Not by any means. Now that Mencius is actually studying, Mother Meng is willing to take an extreme action to ensure he's taking it seriously. Mencius doesn't have a father to smooth his path to success. He has to learn that aspiring to greatness isn't enough. He'll have to put in the effort as if his life depended on it. And if he doesn't persist in his hard work, everything he's done thus far will be useless. Sounds like a lesson imparted on young Meng Yao, doesn’t it?

A lot of fandom rage towards Meng Shi would apply to China's Best Mom Contender, Mother Meng. She gives her son big dreams, and teaches him how to go about achieving them in a society where failing is easier than succeeding. Yes, it's fair to say that Meng Shi taught Meng Yao to refuse to settle for anything less than being “Jin Guangshan's son, a respected cultivator.” Yes, it's also fair to say that she probably didn't allow him much time to play like children his age did. But unfortunately, in the world of MDZS, poor children probably wouldn't get to play anyhow, the difference is that they'd usually be working, not studying. Studying is a privilege! It’s a privilege Meng Yao could not afford but was given to him anyway, through his mother’s many sacrifices. We can even say that while she was alive, Meng Shi was trying to ensure Meng Yao would one day have a better life, at the expense of a fun childhood - and that's very Mother Meng of her, whatever our modern Western sensibilities might have to say about that.

Finally, I’d skip other tales (which show Mother Meng and an adult Mencius) and go straight to the poem that ends the Mother Meng section:

The mother of Mencius

Was able to teach, transform, judge, and discriminate.

With skill she selected a place to raise her son,

Prompting him to accord with the great principles.

When her son’s studies did not advance,

She cut her weaving to illustrate her point.

Her son then perfected his virtue;

His achievements rank as the crowning glory of his generation.

I’d like to focus on the last verse - “His achievements rank as the crowning glory of his generation.” All that Mother Meng wanted was for Mencius to not completely ruin his life, but he became great. You can so very easily see a parallel with how Meng Shi hoped Meng Yao would be a cultivator but he became Jin Guangyao, Chief Cultivator, styled Lianfang-zun, one of the Three Venerable, hero of the Sunshot Campaign.

Of course you can say “Jin Guangyao did many Very Wrong Things to get there, though!” Which, sure, okay, fair point. How many and how wrong depends on which canon we're discussing, and your own interpretation, but there’s no version of the story in which Jin Guangyao is 100% an innocent child uwu. But blaming that on Meng Shi is just... straight up weird? I don’t see anyone going “If Jiang Fengmian hadn’t adopted Wei Wuxian, he’d never have dared become Yiling Laozu!” and that’s pretty much the same logic. Would street kid Wei Wuxian have invented a new type of cultivation if he had never been taken in by the Jiang? Probably not, but raising undead armies is very much not something Jiang Fengmian could’ve predicted. In the same way, how could Meng Shi have predicted that teaching her pre-adolescent son “You are the son of a cultivator, act like one and earn your place in society” would’ve ultimately resulted in innocent deaths? How could she predict “You’re not destined to having the same horrible life I did, you can get something better than this” was a bad thing to teach? I quite honestly don’t know.

Finally, I'd like to point towards a much flimsier evidence that Meng Shi did great as a parent. And that is Meng Yao’s love. Nie Huaisang at some point comments Meng Shi is someone who Meng Yao "cherishes more than his life," and I think his assessment is correct.

Even putting aside the fact he built a whole temple to get his mother to reincarnate into a better life, and even putting aside how he refuses to flee the country without her remains, there's still crystal clear evidence that Meng Shi must've done something right. Because a lifetime of people using his mother to bully him doesn't seem to have made Meng Yao resent her. Had their relationship not have been very strong, odds are he'd feel bitter and/or ashamed of her. That doesn't seem to be the case. He's attached to her even decades after her death.

I want to be very careful with equating mutual affection with good parenting, though. When I was a rather rebellious teenager, my mother (in typical Chinese fashion) used to say that parents and children don't have to love each other as long as they're dutiful to each other, by which she meant that a parent-child relationship isn't informed by warm and fuzzy feelings, but by whether you'd be willing to do anything for each other. Specific to my case, she meant "I don't care if it makes you hate me, you will do as you're told because that's what's best for you." (That may also be the reason why people more familiar with Chinese culture see the Jiang family less as outright abusive and more as #complicated, but that's another meta.)

Whether your kid wants to hug you every time they see you is of no consequence to traditional Chinese thought - raising them to be the best they can is all that matters, because at the end of the day, you won't be around forever, but you can definitely set up your kid's life so that it goes smoothly and virtuously. How that's accomplished varies depending on many factors, but to have the goal be "I want my child to love me" rather than "I want to raise my child right" would've been considered selfish as hell.

So even if all that Meng Shi had given Meng Yao had been stern lessons about the need to go get his birthright, she would've still have been considered a good mother!! In fact, she would've been doing everything she was supposed to do, under extremely difficult conditions! (Remember the importance of environment? That Meng Yao grew up to want to be a cultivator despite having probably never even met one speaks wonders about Meng Shi's childrearing powers!!)

But just based off how over the top Meng Yao's filal dutifulness is, I'd go a step further and say that even as she did the impossible, she was also loving enough to inspire genuine affection. This is complicated because children who have present fathers could expect their mothers to be tender with them. The first century BCE text 禮記 Lǐ Jì or The Classic of Rites says that:

Here now is the affection of a father for his sons - he loves the worthy among them, and places on a lower level those who do not show ability; but that of a mother for them is such, that while she loves the worthy, she pities those who do not show ability - the mother deals with them on the ground of affection and not of showing them honour; the father, on the ground of showing them honour and not of affection.

But when the father figure is lacking for any reason, the mother must abandon her tenderness because someone must guide the child, and without a father, the role falls to the mother. A single or widowed mother had to be very careful to not smother their children with affection and raise useless, spoiled kids, or so it was thought. (The presence of Qingheng-jun and Lan Qiren is why Madame Lan can be so affectionate with the Lan boys, by the way - if she was raising them by herself she would've been expected to be much more practical. AUs where she just gets her kids and runs away could do very cool things with this idea. But I digress!)

Where was I? Oh, okay. Because Meng Yao seems to not just respect, but actively miss her, it seems that Meng Shi somehow managed to deal with her son on the ground of both honor and affection, to paraphrase.

So basically, all things considered, it seems not only would Meng Shi have been considered a great mom (if people could look past her being a prostitute, anyway) but she also went above and beyond the bare minimum. She truly spared no efforts on any front to make sure her son had everything your average gongzi would have - someone to teach him and someone to love him, access to education and confidence in his birthright. That she couldn't actually make him a cultivator, that she couldn't actually raise him in a proper home with no one being cruel to herself or him - that's immaterial. Even Mother Meng couldn't control what her neighbors did, only what she taught her son! The key point is Meng Shi tried. She did everything she could to educate her son right. You couldn't ask more of her, and quite honestly, you should probably be asking less.

Of course we can't err on the other extreme and say she was Perfect. Given MXTX only ever writes flawed characters, we can safely assume that if we'd known more about Meng Shi, we would've seen many flaws. Indeed, just the fact she didn't teach Meng Yao the guqin when he apparently wanted to learn it might point to some conflict we don't know enough to speculate about (maybe she focused too much on cultivation when Meng Yao's interests lay elsewhere? Maybe she wasn't able to sufficiently shelter him and he felt it'd be a burden to ask her to teach him anything? Maybe maybe maybe, go wild with your fics.) Nevertheless, I would never hold a female character to a higher ideal than a male character - if the male cast of MDZS can be a hot mess and still be admirable for what they're trying to do, then so can Meng Shi.

At the end of the day, when I look at Meng Shi - and I've made myself a document with all the references to her in the novel canon so I could easily contemplate her life and character - all I see is a woman every bit as determined and resourceful as her son, willing to do everything it took to raise her little boy into the sophisticated and ambitious man he became.

Finally, here's a fun little parallel that I'm 100% sure was unintentional but I still love. I said Meng Shi couldn't have moved three times. She couldn't, but I think maybe she taught her son he was worth moving three times for. Qinghe Nie. Qishan Wen. Lanling Jin. Isn't that super fun to think about?

Alternatively, tl;dr: Oh My God I Can't Believe We're Blaming Women For The Actions Of Their Adult Children In The Year Of Our Lord 2k21, Meng Shi Was Doing Her Best, Chill!

#drinking game #take a shot every time i say 'finally'#this post refused to let me get to the end of it lol #i think because i'm extremely salty about fanon stage mom meng shi #(to not say tiger mom meng shi which crosses into outright racism. but i'm giving people the benefit of the doubt)

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