#especially if we consider that Arya could be legitimately hearing the dead

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

I find this highly interesting:

She hunkered down in the dark against a damp stone wall and listened for the pursuit, but the only sound was the beating of her own heart and a distant drip of water. Quiet as a shadow, she told herself. She wondered where she was. When they had first come to King's Landing, she used to have bad dreams about getting lost in the castle. Father said the Red Keep was smaller than Winterfell, but in her dreams it had been immense, an endless stone maze with walls that seemed to shift and change behind her. She would find herself wandering down gloomy halls past faded tapestries, descending endless circular stairs, darting through courtyards or over bridges, her shouts echoing unanswered. In some of the rooms the red stone walls would seem to drip blood, and nowhere could she find a window. Sometimes she would hear her father's voice, but always from a long way off, and no matter how hard she ran after it, it would grow fainter and fainter, until it faded to nothing and Arya was alone in the dark. - Arya III AGOT

Evenfall found them still trudging toward the Green Fork and Lord Frey's twin castles. I am almost there, Arya thought. She knew she ought to be excited, but her belly was all knotted up tight. Maybe that was just the fever she'd been fighting, but maybe not. Last night she'd had a bad dream, a terrible dream. She couldn't remember what she'd dreamed of now, but the feeling had lingered all day. If anything, it had only gotten stronger. Fear cuts deeper than swords. She had to be strong now, the way her father told her. There was nothing between her and her mother but a castle gate, a river, and an army . . . but it was Robb's army, so there was no real danger there. Was there? - Arya X ASOS

This could definitely be just a tactic of foreshadowing, but I do find it interesting how it’s Arya we see who seems to be having stressful dreams full of foreboding and symbolism right before the deaths of Ned and Catelyn and Robb.  Makes me wonder if Arya’s blood is even more magical (via the Warg King’s daughters) than we think.

[asprettyasyourown]

How/Where do you think Jon and Arya will meet again? And how/where do you think Dany and Arya will meet?

Honestly, I can’t see Arya and Jon meeting anywhere else other than Winterfell. It would be such a satisfying “conclusion” to this aspect of their storyline. For Arya, both Winterfell AND Jon have been associated with home. She has tried since day one to return to either of them, and to see her do both at the same time would be so lovely. And Jon too, who has struggled for so long with his desire to have Winterfell (feeding his rivalry with Robb and his conflict with his status as a bastard) and Arya (contradicting his position as a member of the Night’s Watch, who have no family), would then get both at the same time. I know GRRM doesn’t like to hand things on a silver platter, and that “Be careful what you wish for” is a massive theme in the series, but come on. You can’t tell me they had it easy, and that they didn’t fight for it.

Now how and when is a little trickier.

Unfortunately, it won’t happen before a loooong time. Arya has a long way to go before leaving Essos, let alone reach Winterfell. She still needs to: 

Tie the story with the FM (including a “training” with the courtesans/the Black Pearl, and of course leaving them);

Deal with the wildlings women and children that are stranded in Braavos now that the Sealord captured the ship (= slavers) that intended to sell them;

As I’ve mentioned before, I very much see the Iron Bank being involved in her storyline, so there’s that to deal with as well;

Meet Dany (I’ll go back to this later);

Go back to Westeros;

Deal with the Riverlands, the Brotherhoods Without Banners and, most importantly, Lady Stoneheart;

Reconnect with Nymeria.

And all that doesn’t even take into account what GRRM could throw in her way on top of all of this. That’s a lot. And since Arya will definitively not see Jon anywhere outside of the North, it could only happen after she resolved all those things.

Jon too has a lot on his plate. He first needs to be resurrected (duh). He also needs to deal with the traitors who stabbed him and his future in the Night’s Watch. If you omit the whole murder thing (kinda hard to tbh), there is still the fact he broke his vows for Arya. He was already set to leave before he died. And since his last thoughts were about Arya, and we know the dead who get resurrected focus on their last conscious thoughts, his resolve to get her back will not be lessened.

Honestly, I think he’s done with the NW. I think he’s gonna do what he intended to before dying, aka kill Ramsay and get “Arya” back, whether by allying with Stannis or at the head of his own wildling army. I don’t know if he’s gonna become King in the North like in GoT, but he’s definitively going to be considered for the role; and since Bran, the legitimate heir, is still alive and will one day return to Winterfell, this could be the catalyst for the tension between these two George planned in his original draft. Not to mention the tensions it would create with the other northern lords, who would not see with a kind eye a bastard allied with the wildlings (enemies of the North for generations) and Stannis; or those who simply won’t appreciate a king not as malleable as a child (side-eye to the Manderlys).

(Oh, and there is also the matter with fArya and Theon. I’m going on a limb here, but I doubt he’s gonna be happy to learn that what he thought was his precious “sister” is really an impostor (though he might be happy to know the real Arya didn’t get what Jeyne had to endure). Or that she’s bringing along the guy who betrayed the Starks and supposedly killed Bran and Rickon. His first reaction definitively won’t be good, though it will probably soften once he learns what happened to them and how Ramsay is the real culprit. But I’m not anticipating much benevolence from him, especially since he’s in dark mode now).

So yeah. Lots of issues to be resolved before they can be reunited, and that’s without counting on the threat of the Others or what other characters might do. Honestly, I’m anticipating a reunion between the end of TWOW and the beginning of ADOS. On one hand, I think it would be more impactful in TWOW; most specifically, the last act of either Jon or Arya’s chapters. It would be a nice conclusion for the both of them, before the Others mess everything up. But I’m also aware that all the issues I’ve previously mentioned might not be resolved in one book, and that it might spill on the second one.

-----------------------------

Now Dany.

Honestly, it’s kinda hard to be sure of how they’re gonna meet. They will, that’s a certainty. There is so much hints, since the first book really. Remember this?

This time the monsters did not frighten her. They seemed almost old friends. [Arya, IV, AGOT]

Which is exactly how I’m anticipating their relationship. At first, things are going to be tense, especially on Dany’s side who has been fed lies about the Starks and their role in her exile (and who could blame her). So there’s definitively room for Arya to be frightened. But once she gets Dany to see her side to the story, and her vision of the events become more balanced, they’ll become fast-friends. They have so much in common, it’s impossible for them not to.

But, once again, the details of how they’re gonna meet is blurry. Arya will need to at least be done with the FM. And Dany... Dany has a lot on her plate too. She’s gonna need to deal with the khalasar she hears at the end of ADWD, and a possible confrontation (alliance?) with the Dothraki. She will also need to end the plot in Meereen (aka choose between “fixing” its whole culture or do what she always intended to, return to Westeros and seize back the Iron Throne). Of course, we know she’s gonna choose the latter - but a bunch of things can happen between that, and with them time passing.

At this point, Arya and Dany are very far away, each at one extremity of Essos. For them to have a chance to meet, I anticipate that Dany will end things with Meereen at the same time Arya closes the storyline with the FM (maybe even before, so Dany could already be on the road towards Braavos). Now is the tricky part. I have two theories on how they will meet: through the lost Wildlings and through the Iron Bank.

The lost Wildlings

We know the wildlings women and children in Braavos were “freed” when the Sealord seized the ship carrying them. Unfortunately, others were not so lucky.

“I know why the Sealord seized the Goodheart. She was carrying slaves. Hundreds of slaves, women and children, roped together in her hold.” Braavos had been founded by escaped slaves, and the slave trade was forbidden here. “I know where the slaves came from. They were wildlings from Westeros, from a place called Hardhome. An old ruined place, accursed.” Old Nan had told her tales of Hardhome, back at Winterfell when she had still been Arya Stark. “After the big battle where the King-Beyond-the-Wall was killed, the wildlings ran away, and this woods witch said that if they went to Hardhome, ships would come and carry them away to someplace warm. But no ships came, except these two Lyseni pirates, Goodheart and Elephant, that had been driven north by a storm. They dropped anchor off Hardhome to make repairs, and saw the wildlings, but there were thousands and they didn’t have room for all of them, so they said they’d just take the women and the children. The wildlings had nothing to eat, so the men sent out their wives and daughters, but as soon as the ships were out to sea, the Lyseni drove them below and roped them up. They meant to sell them all in Lys. Only then they ran into another storm and the ships were parted. The Goodheart was so damaged her captain had no choice but to put in here, but the Elephant may have made it back to Lys. The Lyseni at Pynto’s think that she’ll return with more ships. The price of slaves is rising, they said, and there are thousands more women and children at Hardhome.” [The Blind Girl, ADWD]

So the Goodheart was too damaged to go to Lys, but the Elephant wasn’t. It means there are still hundreds of wildlings women and children enslaved there. Honestly, I’m not sure how Arya could be involved in freeing them. Lys is a long way from Braavos, which means she would have to travel down there (with no resources and the other half of the wildlings), free them and get back up to sail across the Narrow Sea, deal with the Riverlands and then go North. It’s a little much for one girl, even one as resourceful as Arya. Sure, she could ask help from the Iron Bank (see my second point), but I doubt they would indulge her (high risk for no rewards).

But. You know who is as strongly against slavery as Arya, whose path might make her travel to Lys and who has the resources to fuck shit up? Yep, Dany.

The way I see it is, after being disheartened by Meereen and her failure to change the slaver(y) culture, Dany could very much decide to go home to Westeros - and set everything ablaze in her path. If she failed to abolish slavery from the inside, she might decide to do it by force, as a last FUCK YOU to the masters. This could be the beginning of her rock bottom, before she rises back again. It’s also coherent with the Dothraki culture of “Submit or be killed”, which could play a part if she allies with them again.

So I could see her attacking the big cities of Essos, destroying the masters and freeing the slaves as she goes along, until she reaches Braavos - who may be protected since 1. she would use its port to journey across the Narrow Sea and 2. they’re famously known for being founded by slaves and anti-slavery as a whole (and they actually enforce that rule, not just preach it and close their eyes when it counts). There, she could meet Arya through the wildlings women reuniting. Like I said, things would be tense at first, but if they might not be friends at first, they might respect each other for having their hearts set on the same goal (protecting their people). Friendship would come later, I’m not worried about that.

The Iron Bank theory

For me, the Iron Bank doesn’t get the recognition it deserves as a threat, and I fully anticipate them having a much larger role in the next book.

I really believe they will have a hand in Arya going back to Westeros. After she leaves the FM, I very much see them stepping in to offer their “help” to Arya. Personally, I believe the Kindly Man informed them of her real identity (though his motivations are yet unclear). I believe he’s aware of her value as a princess, and the (supposedly) last heir of the North. Look how people are rallying for her in the North when they hear “Valiant Ned’s precious little girl” is being brutalized. Do you think the Iron Bank is gonna pass on such a prize? I can see them trying to do to her what the Manderlys are doing with Rickon, or what Illyrio tried to do with Dany - offer their protection and help so she would be/feel indebted. They could get ahold of the North through Arya, and of the other Kingdoms through Stannis/the crown’s debt. Not too shabby.

But wait, there is a problem arising. A problem named Daenerys, who fully intends to take back the Iron Throne - and if she does, she’s not gonna care about reimbursing the debt her predecessors/usurpers left, thus lessening their leverage (and with three dragons, a Dothraki army and the Unsullied, threatening her is not gonna fly well). I can see them trying to step in too, promise the same things to her they did to Arya - except she’s not gonna fall for the same ploy like Viserys did with Illyrio.

(Btw, I’m sure Arya too will see right through them - she had a whole training dedicated to make her see beyond appearances, and she’s always been pretty observant (like when she didn’t fall for trap Cersei laid for her, with Lannister soldiers dressed as Stark men in AGOT). But she also don’t have the same resources Dany has, and if she frees the wildlings, she’ll have hundreds of mouths to feed and transport back to Westeros. I can’t see her do that without external help, so she might be playing along til a better opportunity arise.)

Now, both these theories have their flaws. The biggest one, for me, is time. Meereen is not gonna be resolved in a day (unless Dany just sets everything on fire the moment she arrives and takes off into the sunset, but I doubt that). She still needs enough time to travel to Braavos. Even if George takes his sweet time closing the FM storyline, dealing with the wildlings in Braavos and the Iron Bank, it’s not gonna take a million chapters. Unless he throws something in there to delay her departure, something that wasn’t foreshadowed yet? Because I don’t see them meeting first in Westeros. What would be the point of having them on the same continent if they don’t meet there? As always, there’s a lot left hanging in the air.

[mykingjon]

Rhaegar, Elia, Lyanna and the matters of succession

*DISCLAIMER: This post does NOT take Rhaegar’s morality, or the outcome of Robert’s Rebellion into consideration, I judge no one and keep my opinions to myself; I’m merely searching for a reasonable truth about why the writers created this plot. I do not tolerate any kind of hate speech; I am a fan of constructive criticism, though.*

Hey guys! There are so many metas about the news of Rhaegar/Elia’s marriage annulment, I know. It definitely set sparks among the fandom. I am not here to defend Rhaegar, or call him names. However, for the past year, I’ve been mostly digging into the history of law on my university. Marriage law heavily included. There are many aspects of the annulment we might not be taking into consideration, as long as D&D read about the matter in the medieval history of course, as well as read the books carefully (Y E A H), which eventually led them to the route they took. Again, I am not trying to defend their decision with this plotline, or the character’s actions, merely wondering about what lead to it in showmakers’ minds. I might be reading too much into it and they simply wanted to make Jon legitimate, and were not very sensitive about Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys, as well as the future of royal dynasty, but all I can do is hope it was otherwise (might be proved wrong in 7x07, but hell, I want to get it off my chest). Healthy discussion and pointing out mistakes in my logic is encouraged.

So, we certainly know Elia’s and Rhaegar’s marriage has been consummated (obviously). It could not be set aside by the High Septon as an unlawful one. Their son, Aegon, was second in line for the throne before the Robert’s Rebellion. The two children Elia and Rhaegar had were securing the dynasty’s position, and Rhaegar believed they both had a great part to play in the Great War. Later on, Rhaegar decided he has to get out of his marriage for some reason, be it love, prophecy, anything you want to name. I want to discuss something entirely different, which is: how would the Faith actually grant his request, if the Prince and the Princess already had children? And also, how would the line of succession look after such a turn?

I’ve seen many people deem it absolutely impossible for a consummated marriage be set aside, and from the religious (New Gods) point of view it probably is, to some extent. However, royalty rules their own lives as they please, and the Faith have been eventually forced to agree to many compromises (just like in medieval Europe), based on Targaryens’ Valyrian heritage (the overused example: brother/sister marriage). So, although the relations have been complicated at first, after hundreds of years of Targaryen rule, Faith was not really considered as a force to be reckoned with, but rather a neccessary ally Kings had to create dialogue with if they needed their blessing in something exceptional. Therefore, in the times of Robert I, among Westerosi nobles it is widely believed that if a King wishes to set aside his wife, even if they both have children, he can easily do that. In AGOT, we have proof for that. 

First one, we can find in Bran II, just before he sees Jaime and Cersei together. Cersei complains about the fact that Ned agreed to become the Hand of the King. She’s scared that Robert will actually listen to him out of love two men bear for each other, and that she will be set aside for the sake of “another Lyanna”. Robert is known to have many mistresses, and father many bastards, so surely she is not speaking merely of that kind of relationship between her husband and a woman Ned would choose for him. She is actually speaking of Ned Stark finding Robert a new wife. Now, if she is presumably the mother of his three children, how could her position be endangered by something like Lord Stark’s opinion of her, or her house, if she is protected by how lawful her marriage is in the eyes of gods? Clearly, if the King wants to set her aside for another woman, he can. The Faith’s opinion is not even considered.

“ My husband grows more restless every day. Having Stark beside him will only make him worse. He’s still in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen-year-old. How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna?”

Some might argue that Cersei is paranoid, because she is scared of a potential enemy, as well as of the reveal of Joffrey’s real parentage. However, there are also the members of the two great houses who share her opinion, and even found a potential new Lyanna Cersei fears. In AGOT, Arya III, after trying to catch the cats, our girl overhears a conversation which proves the same point. Two unknown to her figures speak of how close Ned is to discovering the truth, for he has a bastard and a book. Before they start this topic, they also mention that lord Renly Baratheon and ser Loras Tyrell plan to bring 14-year-old Margaery to the court. She’s believed to be sweet, meek and beautiful. Both men want Margaery to be bedded and wed by King Robert, although he has a Queen, as well as heirs.

“The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen. “

They even hope that Robert will see Lyanna in Margaery:

“The maid was Loras Tyrell’s sister Margaery, he’d confessed, but there were those who said she looked like Lyanna. “No,” Ned had told him, bemused.”

So, to conclude: during the reign of Robert I, there undoubtedly is a possibility for a lawful wife of a King, with whom he (presumably) has children, to be set aside, with no solid reason at all. Surely, just before his reign, there also was such a possibility. One can argue that Rhaegar was no King; yet, he was the Crown Prince of house Targaryen, and his ascention has been long awaited by the most of Westeros, because of his Father’s ways. I would not be surprised if he was treated like a King by the Faith under such circumstances, even if he did not have Aerys’ support in that matter. According to ASOIAF wiki, neither wife nor husband have to be present to make such an annulment, and just one side of the marriage (read: a man) can request it (presumably by sending a raven, if neither of them have to be present). It is uncommon; but not impossible, even book-wise.

Okay, so we know that Rhaegar could somehow persuade High Septon to annul his marriage to Elia, and he didn’t have to travel all the way to Tower of Joy, even if the Prince didn’t start his preparations for running away with Lyanna during the year between Tourney of Harrenhal and the actual event. I imagine that his official reason could be, of course, the good of the dynasty. Elia couldn’t have more children, or else she would risk her life severely, and in the terms of royalty, the more the heirs, the more secure they feel on the throne. Sure, Aegon and Rhaenys would be more than enough for house Targaryen to have a bright future after Rhaegar’s death. But we know there was also something else driving the Crown Prince, and that kind of official reason for an annulment could be accepted by the Faith, instead of “I need a third head of the dragon to save this godforsaken land”, “I love Lyanna Stark, I have to marry her asap”, or anything else you want to name. In medieval Europe, the inability to bring children to the world, or even as much as not being able to have sexual intercourse, was believed to be reason enough to annul marriage among the high-born. The main god-given task behind all the marriages was for the husband and wife to want to bring as many children as possible into the world. Conclusion: the annulment could be arranged in the world based on our medieval one.

But what kind of sense would it have, right? If Rhaegar annuled his marriage to Elia, he would bastardize his “promised prince” Aegon, and his daughter Rhaenys. He would risk his dynasty all the more with taking two heirs out of the line of succession, especially in the turbulent times of the Mad King. It just wouldn’t make sense, for the dynasty, Rhaegar, and even High Septon.

In medieval times, there were many obstacles to subdue in Catholic marriage law. I will not name them all, ‘cause there are a lot of them, but they were divided into those which annuled the marriage the second they were discovered (example: kinship to some extent), and those which could prevent the very existance of the marriage  ONLY before the sacrament, vows, etc. took place (example: age; yes, in medieval times people were sometimes not sure how old were they). The inability to provide more children could be used as an obstacle to annul the marriage by someone as important as Rhaegar (especially with the fact Robert could set Cersei aside with no reason at all, or the made-up one), yes, we know that already; but even in this series of events, in medieval Europe, there was an institution to protect the children from such a marriage. They were said to be “conceived in a good will”, so, in a belief that a marriage was and always will be valid. Aegon and Rhaenys could still be kept in the line of succesion, even if their mother would never become/stop being Queen (which is a bummer, of course, but hear me out). 

This seems like the most logical option that writers could follow if they decided to erase Elia and Rhaegar’s marriage completely. It was a HUGE compromise on the Faith’s side - the dynasty would not loose its heirs and the Realm - two heads of the dragon, and Rhaegar was free to do what he wanted, for whatever the hell reason he wanted. But then again, we already decided that Targaryens were bending everyone to their will, Faith included.

So, the line of succession then, would be: 1. Aegon, 2. Jon, 3. Rhaenys, 4. Viserys, 5. Daenerys. Pretty secure, huh?

The only person who lost social position in this, was of course, Princess Elia. But whether you morally accept with what was done to her in the terms of her marriage, or not, that kind of option seems like the most possible one. *prayer circle Rhaegar was not batshit crazy and actually took Realm, his children, and his whole life before Lyanna and Jon into consideration before doing something like that to Elia, all the while bending High Septon to his will, even in the show-verse*

Of course, we all know that the war ruined Rhaegar’s plans, whatever they might have been. I am just trying my VERY best to understand what was the writers’ logic behind that decision, because frankly, as somebody who watches the show, as well as read the books, I never took that option into consideration. Polygamy, the royal decree to legitimize Jon - yes, that was on my mind. But annulment? That was quite a shock to me, as it must have been for everyone. At first I completely couldn’t get my head around that, but the deeper you get into that, the more sense it makes. Well, I hope we’ll see how George handles it!