#epic eurymene

[a-bottle-of-tyelenol]

Seeing people on tiktok say that they can’t feel bad for Ctimene (ody’s sister and eury’s wife) because Eurylochus gave up on her, unlike Odysseus who never gave up on Penelope, genuinely infuriates me.

cw: discussions of suicide particularly towards the end

People act as if it’s Eurylochus’ fault for not being strong enough, as if Odysseus is the expectation and not the INSANE outlier, and say that Eurylochus borderline deserved to die because of it. Ignoring how gross that mindset is, especially given the implications that Eurylochus killing the cow was effectively an act of suicide, Odysseus should NOT be seen as the typical man because he isn’t.

He should have died. Multiple times, in fact. If we look at the Iliad, Odysseus would have died during the war if not for Athena’s intervention (she literally redirects a spear in his abdomen so it’s not lethal when he’s alone and completely surrounded by Trojans) and that was likely the case for the ENTIRE TEN YEARS that they fought, a luxury that no other man (barring Diomedes) would have been given. I bring this up because it sets a precedent on what to expect with Odysseus and how he is inherently treated differently than regular men.

I see Eurylochus defenders often bring up how magic and monsters are not the norm for regular men, and how Odysseus is only chill with it because he was chosen by Athena and related to Hermes, and they’re RIGHT. I literally cannot stress enough how insanely bonkers it is to treat Odysseus as the standard for men, or humans as a whole, when his experience is so different! Even just as a king, he was likely far more exposed to the gods and magic than your regular footman would be. Do you genuinely think Eurylochus would have ever spoken even a word to Achilles, a half-mortal? How likely was it that he knew Ares and Aphrodite were disguised and physically on the field (so close that Diomedes literally stabbed them), let alone got close enough to experience it himself? He likely knew that Zeus’ favor was in play, or that Apollo was blessing the other side, but how much was he really faced with? How much did Odysseus bother to tell him? Within the context of how I think EPIC’s version of the Iliad would go, how much of Eurylochus’ experience of the war just him handling the men and spreading the basic plans or news from Ody to their armies? How much did Odysseus filter that news? And even if he didn’t, how real was it to Eurylochus when, as a normal man, he likely never faced any of this himself?

It’s implied in EPIC (through the fact that it’s never brought up) that the crew, including Eurylochus, don’t even know about Athena! They don’t even know that she was helping! They don’t even know that she left!

How is Eurylochus ever comparable to Odysseus?

Back to the original topic, Odysseus’ will to go home was so inhuman that it nearly destroyed him! He spent the entire musical desperately grasping to the side that makes him human— the man that he was when he left home— and his choice to stop and delve into the other side of himself fundamentally changed him! He is not the man Penelope knew! And she will have to fall in love with him again!

Odysseus is consistently placed as something above man and below god, and it is consistently the driving force of every conflict he experiences. He is too mythical, which drives the wedge between him and his entirely human crew. He is too much of a man, which incites the tensions he has with every god he comes in contact with. The only reason Odysseus makes it home in EPIC is because he started leaning away from being a man! That is the entire point of Monster! That is the entire point of Scylla likening him to her! That is the entire point of Odysseus having a song named after him!

Eurylochus fundamentally does not have this option! He, quite literally, is just a man and that is the whole point of him taking the phrase from Odysseus! He isn’t attempting to justify himself, he’s admitting defeat because no regular man can go on like this! And he’s right!

You can make a thousand arguments over the conflict of free will and fate— particularly when it comes to the cows and the crew. In the Odyssey, it is very likely that, had the cows not been touched, it would have been possible for everyone to return home, but because they ignored the prophet’s warning, man’s free will overwrote that and their fate then became to die. This only works in the Odyssey, however, because Poseidon never actually tries to kill Odysseus (and by proxy, his crew) in that story! He can’t because it was always Odysseus’ fate to return home and the gods cannot ignore fate! In EPIC, however, that’s not the case and Poseidon likely would have just killed the crew in that final fight before they reached Ithaca anyways. Odysseus would have been the only survivor regardless!

And why is that? Because Odysseus is unlike the other men and comparing any of them to him is inherently setting them up for failure. Eurylochus did not have to love Ctimene any less than Odysseus loved Penelope in order to give up. He did not have to love her less than he loved the crew that he fought so hard to keep alive. He did not even have to be weaker in will than Odysseus. His fate was sealed as soon as things started going wrong because that is the fate of a mere man in a tragedy.

And even if that weren’t the case and Eurylochus could’ve gone home if he hadn’t killed that cow, he literally could not have know that. He was starving and wracked with thirteen years of trauma and three years of grief and starvation. It is insane to me to say that he couldn’t have loved Ctimene as much because he gave up after everything that he went through— because he thought (correctly) that he was going to die regardless. As someone who severely struggles with suicidal thoughts and has for my entire life, I do not love anyone any less just because I’m on the brink of giving up and the same is true for anyone that’s given up. They don’t love their family, their partners, their friends any less than the ones that fight to keep going. It is simply more complicated than that.

We don’t know much about her in canon, but I believe that Ctimene was loved and that she deserves to have the space of anger towards Odysseus and grief towards her lost husband, regardless of his decisions. Eurylochus can love her with his entire being and still end up where he did. Iirc, Odysseus in the Odyssey wished that he had been killed during the war because of the hardships he faced trying to get back home. That wish, regardless on if he acted on it, does not mean he loved Penelope any less.

I don’t like this notion people have that Eurylochus’ love is lesser than Odysseus’ just because Eurylochus gave up, and I don’t think it’s fair to compare them at all.

The message this gives off is really gross to me and is a bit too victim blamey and unempathetic for my tastes. Eurylochus made a hasty decision (a lot, if not most, people who commit suicide do it impulsively during a low point) and it was one that was fueled by extremely idiosyncratic circumstances. To me, everything Eurylochus did was understandable and even relatable to a degree, even up until the end.

Eurylochus is more like me, more like the average person, and Odysseus could ever be and I would never see his love as any less just because he failed to meet those impossible expectations.

[lava-draws-stuff]

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^ this is meant to be them right after finding out eury has to serve in the war

i hc that eury for the majority of his life had these long locs but he shaved his head right before the war with the intent to get them back after he was home but. well.

also my ctimene design :p

[notsolonedesert]

All of them lived happily ever after and nothing bad ever happened, trust me 🥹

Follow up: The wedding

[yummymuse]

Ody and Eury singing dear Theodosia bc duhh, why not?

I got too lazy to fully color lmao

[nothing-impt]

My hand slipped :')

[mmmgert]

the friend group basically

[nandysparadox]

don't blame the siren, it's hard to get the details right when your target has beeswax in his ears :)

(ive had this idea for a while, initially i envisioned it as a gif/animation, but i admit that's above my skill level '^^ so i did what i could)

idea from one of my convos with @glacierruler - storm is the realest one for listening to all my rambles about epic 😆❤️

[justvea18]

First meeting

[irunaki]

haha very cool *drops child eurymene*

[starsintheendlessnight]

More chibi Eurylochus but this time with his chibi friends 💚

[gavotte-paradisio]

I love how popular Eurymene is in the EPIC fandom even though Ctimene's not even in the freaking musical.

[yescallmejosey]

as always i have to interrupt everyone’s happiness with angst. So imagine, just imagine, the joy that ctimene felt knowing that her brother was alive and rushing to the palace. Penelope and Odysseus finish their song and the door is immediately slammed opened by Ctimene who throws her hands around Odysseus and hugs him. Only Odysseus can’t hug her back, he just can’t. And Penelope knows, by just looking at her husband, that the phrase “trading friends like objects” meant so much more than she thought. And there is weight in the air as Ctimene pulls out and asks “Where’s Eurylochus?”

[protagaster]

Penelope: Hey Ctimene, are you free tonight? Like, around sundown?

Ctimene: Yes, I am.

Odysseus: And you, Eurylochus?

Eurylochus: Umm... yes?

Penelope: Great! Because we're not.

Odysseus: You two go out without us. Enjoy your date!

[Penny & Ody run away hand-in-hand, giggling between themselves]

Eurylochus: ...

Ctimene: Did they just-

[notsolonedesert]

Odypen oh odypen

This picture from pinterest inspired me :D

[mushyooms]

**gets on knees**

MUSHY FEED US MORE CTIMENE AND MY LIFE IS YOURS 🗣️

(whenever you can ofc)

frequently bought together

[nothing-impt]

@notsolonedesert have this Eurymene fanchild :D