#eidmi

[dualquille]

Red God prediction - Red Rising

I’m calling it right now - Lysander will use the Red cube on Mars. He favors Gold too much to use it on them (ex. When he chose Seraphina over all those lowColors in Iron Gold). Deanna, Kieran, and all the rest of Darrow’s Red family on Mars will die. (Pax will survive this.) Rhonna will survive because she is ALIVE and on Mercury (there’s no way she just quietly disappeared forever imo). Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[violethowler]

Another method I just realized that Darrow could've already found out about Lysander having Eidmi through - Cassius could've hid a recording device on his body somewhere it wouldn't be found.

Atlas may have had a jamField up when Cassius and Lysander ambushed him, but that wouldn't have any affect on the recorder itself - Darrow had that one tiny camera Harmony put in his tooth before the Gala and even after going through multiple jamFields, the Jackal was able to pick up footage of Darrow and Sevro storming the bridge of the Pax without any issue. So if he hadn't already figured out that Eidmi is in play, perhaps Darrow could find a recording device while saying his goodbyes to Cassius and learn what happened in his friend's final moments.

[rangersbecket]

I can't get over Part 4 of Light Bringer being titled Brothers, and how it ultimately boils down to Cassius connecting and contrasting his two brothers on a deeply personal level.

Lysander, a brother lost, Darrow, a brother regained. one kills him for what he perceives to be the greater good, the other wishes nothing more than to have fought and died by his side when they still had that option. they're faced with the same loss, and Lysander moves past it to secure the solution to his problem (Eidmi), while Darrow would trade the solution to his problem (the ships and Moon Lords) for Cassius.

Lysander gave up his brother for the war. Darrow would give up the war for his brother.

if that doesn't declare loud and clear what they each stand for and who they've become, I don't know what does.

[dangerandbeauty]

Theory for Red God…

I’ve been thinking on what may offset Eidmi, and I feel like whatever Mickey is cooking up secretively will be the answer.

In Iron Gold Mickey is said to be stuck in his laboratory, has many “admirers” which he brought to the Opera, many of whom were lowColors according to Daxo. He compared it to a Hieronymus Bosch painting which upon googling looks like a bunch of people scattered in various positions and in odd angles (and typically nude).

I can only infer that he is experimenting on these people.

In Morning Star, Cassius asks Darrow when this war will end, to which Darrow answers, “When there are no colors left”

I think we may actually have to take that literally even though Cassius laughed it off, saying, “oh good, you aimed low.” Maybe this is really what will end the war.

I think Mickey is concocting something that will rid people of their color somehow, or perhaps set people back to the original human settings from centuries before all the eugenics and carvings that created the hierarchy.

We know Mickey is supportive of the Rising and helps whenever he can—he gifted Virginia that Venusian glass hourglass when she legalized intercolor reproduction, the act which had previously lost him his licensure under the society, and he carved Lyria’s nephew to give him eyesight.

Of course there’s other things he could be doing, but the fact that it still hasn’t been revealed yet, and we have this bio weapon that can attack specific colors, and the ONLY person we know that could affect that at all would be Mickey and all his knowledge of DNA and experience in biological meddling, these all point to him being the saving grace.

[aeithalian]

Light Bringer thoughts

spoilers below:

So the fact that Virginia disappeared from the narrative after the first half of the book kinda threw me for a loop, but I suppose if she had gotten a subplot of her own, it would have felt like we were getting pulled from the action too much… because the Darrow/Lyria/Lys*nder side of the story was all one cohesive plot, and Virginia’s POV, had it been maintained, would have added a certain level of unrelated chaos, with the audience getting jerked away to Mars every so often. So while I missed her, I can appreciate why Pierce didn’t include her as much. 

I LOVELOVELOVE getting outsider POVs of Darrow. Our only other one was from Lys*nder in Dark Age. When Lyria hung around and got to really know Darrow was when she was solidified as one of my favorite characters, for the pure merit that she was able to change her perspective from the myth to the man. It made me realize that more people would like Darrow if he wasn’t famous for war. That and I love the stark difference between how Darrow is in his own head and how he is to other people. It’s so much fun. Likewise, an outsider POV of Lyria was equally fun as well. 

Figment. It’s… I don’t know. I think I expected it to have a bigger payout? Or I expected Lyria to have it for longer. Figment was a really cool mystery that didn’t get fleshed out. But then I realized that the story didn’t really need another physically powerful female character. We have Virginia, Victra, and Volga for that. Aurae, Athena, Theodora (RIP), and now Lyria are a new brand of strong female characters that I’m really glad Pierce has gotten into a groove with - strong, empathetic women who don’t need to hold their own in a fight to be respected and awesome in their own rights. So no, I don’t think Lyria will ever be that ‘red god’ character people thought she might become, because that’s not where her strength lies. And who says Figment won’t return? (No, I don’t think Matteo left it in, but who knows)

I honestly wish Volsung Fá had been introduced earlier, I think it would have made him seem like a bigger threat. The fact that he was introduced as Atlas’ puppet, which was supposed to be this huge mystery to the Volk and the Ascommani, is something we knew the whole time, and decreases on the ‘drama’ of it, I think. I’m excited for an adaptation of him, though! The fear that he supposedly evokes is something that I was kinda missing, so I’d be excited to see it on a screen for a bigger effect. 

BREATH OF STONE HOLY SHIT this entire sequence was so good. I actually teared up. I was so excited. The ‘clang clang clang’ “confess”? Daddy Darrow. ohmygod. Darrow rediscovering his roots in the mines of Mars? A spiritual experience. AND he recreated the Trojan Horse moment from Red Rising and it was like a little part of me was healed. It was so good. That moment where he talks about the game he played with Eo as kids really got me because I think this is the first time in a while where he’s looked back on his memories of Eo and not thought about her death and her dream, but her life. I think he remembered why he loved her so much, and it made me like her a bit more too. But the power up moment. So good. Ugh. 

I’m gonna be honest. I saw Cassius’ death coming from a mile away. But it hit me WAY harder than I thought it would. I was never his biggest fan, even in Iron Gold, but I knew I was in for it when he rejected the ‘au’ honorific to Matteo, and I really started seeing his development. And his last words? Gut punch. I’ll never get over that. Formally rejecting Gold? Claiming Darrow as a brother in life and in oath? Declaring solidarity with the Republic? Yes, Cassius. Your honor does remain. 

The fact that Atlas died in this book kinda freaks me out, because I really thought he was going to be the big boss at the end of the story, because Atalantia doesn’t scare me enough just yet. But now that Lys*nder has the Eidmi, I’m getting a bit nervy. Lys*nder was fine before because he was never a real threat. But there’s nothing more terrifying than a man who has all the power in the world and doesn’t know what to do with it. 

My last thought: Fuck Lys*nder. This absolute pisspot. This pubic hair of a being. This man - no, *BOY* - is going to forever taint my idea of the word ‘honor’, not because he has any, but because he is a bastardization of everything honorable people stand for. He can say he has honor over and over again, but when it clashes with his reputation, he always fails to do the honorable thing. Killing your brother? Not honorable. Doing it for a weapon that will let you commit mass genocide? Hm….. not very honorable, methinks.

Predictions for Red God:

Red God is Darrow. No question. The term ‘red god’ has come up before, in direct reference to Darrow in Dark Age (someone was talking to Alexander) and I heard someone saying it might be Lyria, but honestly, I doubt it.

There are still a couple mysteries that didn’t get revealed that I was curious about: in Dark Age, Virginia says that the Pandemonium Chair was only ever used twice, once being on Lysander… so what was the other time? Similarly, when Atlas is getting un-carved from his Helios-doppleganger body, it’s mentioned that this isn’t his first time, and Lysander noted it as unusual. So what’s up?

I still really think that Lyria’s brothers were the snipers Darrow ordered to kill Lysander during the Long Night. We’ll have to see where that goes. 

Eidmi. It honestly feels too simple, and I’m worried that Atlas wasn’t telling the full truth. Bitch didn’t even have a plan for it, but the thing is, he was afraid of Atalantia having it, because he was afraid she would use it wrong. But oh honorable Lysander (please sense the sarcasm) I don’t really think you should be any less afraid of genocide just because you’re the one holding the trigger. I actually think he’ll try to use it on Luna first, but I don’t know if he’ll be able to get it that close to the planet itself. He probably won’t use it on Mercury, because that’s where he’s going to try his major rejuvenation efforts. And he’s more afraid of Atalantia than he is of the Republic, so Mars probably isn’t that high up on his priority list - remember, he thinks Darrow is dead, doesn’t know the Volk, Daughters, and Rim are all flying to protect Mars, and has wildly underestimated the power of the Republic. He might blame it on the Republic, in a last-ditch effort to get any Golds that haven’t claimed a side to do so. It's almost impossible to predict, because Pierce is inherently a very unpredictable author.

The Abomination is an interesting stone left unturned. The thing is, I thought Virginia might have had a chance to turn him good (?) before she tried to kill him, and I thought she actually could have done it if not for Lilath. Maybe she’ll use the PsychoSpike on him, and somehow implant memories of the real Adrius in him so she’ll have a chance to show him the love he didn’t have before. Because I saw someone say the same thing about wiping Lysander’s memories, but I really don’t think Lysander would take any chance he has for redemption, he’s already turned his back on ‘honor’ too many times. The Abomination, on the other hand, probably wouldn’t have done anything wrong had be been guided by a hand other than Lilath’s. I think there’s hope for him. 

I don’t think Rhonna is dead! No body, no death, especially with Pierce. In the Dramatis Personae, she’s described as ‘lost’, not dead. Chekov’s gun, and all that. 

Darrow better not die. Here’s the thing, though. If the Darrow we saw in Dark Age had carried over through Light Bringer, I think Pierce would be setting him up to die. But now that he’s got the Breath of Stone, the Path to the Vale, and the power given to him by letting go of his guilt and worry, it’s setting him up for a happy ending, moreso than I remember ever reading the rest of the series. I think LB!Darrow is the first time we’ve really seen him believe that he could also live. Remember, he’s always thought he’d end his story as a martyr for the Rising/Republic. But now I think he knows he can not just fight for more, but live for more too. Sevro said it well. We’re tired of this shit. Let’s band together so we can start living rather than surviving. 

[darrowsrising]

To think Darrow has sacrificed himself for his family over and over again, just to eventually lose them to a genocide en masse via Eidmi.

He gave everything he could of himself and always saw the best in people and not even Dark Age made him less disposed to do so. And now he'll get hit the way he least expects, probably can't even imagine, because he doesn't know.

It is too cruel, too horrible to have this looming after Dark Age. It is too cruel to have his kindness spat on, his good nature exploited, his consideration dismissed, especially after Dark Age. Not all that is good surviving and rising from the ashes just to turn against him over and over.

I hope he at least gets a warning. Maybe the clone knows something, maybe Virginia figures it out in time. He deserved better dammit. Even if he cannot prevent anything in the end, he should know. If he knows when it's too late...too cruel.

[chatte-noire]

tho8ghts on darrow and lysanders ☆stagenames☆

darrow is MORNING STAR

lysander is LIGHT BRINGER

those warsonas are also 2 aliases of LUCIFER. eh lucifer morningstar, lucifer the lightbringer etc etc.

so what kind of parallel does this create?

darrow and lysander as... two sides of the same coin ( ?

.. different incarnations of the devil? they sure are war criming enough for that symbolism

.. their fall from grace? tbh darrow crawled out of the gutter more iconically and more often. lysander just had his desert moment thats not lucifer fall from heaven-material but lets wait for red god (and hope he stays in the gutter(

.. their corruption from angel to devil? both started pretty innocently and had a character arc that turned pretty dark at one point

... their hubris? (/superbia, pride) lucifer wanted to be god, both darrow and lyly have some pretty strong hubris ngl lysander "I'm the slave shepherd" lune and darrow "the kingdom of death has only one king" of lykos both strong contenders and yes light resistance bringer is more delusional but reaper had 10yrs war experience and still sailed on mercury

... kings of hell? darrow has some pretty strong hellfire aesthetic going on with being raised under the earth, literally being a helldiver, lots of red vibes (mars & his colour), themes of heat/pain etc etc. lysander burning the garter, surviving the ladon and claiming eidmi also has a growing king of hell vibe.

..rebirth? darrow from red to gold to morningstar, lysander from lune to nobody to lightbringer?

many possibilitiesss.

PREDICTIONSs!!!: what can this symbolism mean for red God?

Venus will play a central role, main battle will be there - cause venus is the morning star aka light bringer aka lucifer

lysander will have his fall from heaven but wont reemerge cause he has no friends parallel to golden son/morningstar arc

hubris will be a theme like come on the book is called red god?? darrow will be torn between his unlocked wise path and his need for speed

[mustangdelicate]

Worst thing in Light Bringer was definitely the fact that Darrow's mercy has been once again spat on and betrayed. I know this fandom is full of excuses and walks around the bush about it, but Cassius' decision was the worst and somehow still typical. I dgaf about his issues, when Darrow sacrificed and dedicated to helping him and he couldn't be bothered to at least TRY to alert about Eidmi.

Second worst was Pierce cutting off Virginia's pov and having her needing Cassius to consider Lysander might not uphold his end of the bargain. Feels like he forgot to write Virginia right in places, tbh.

The best things were Virginia's pov, her convo with Darrow, Darrow and Sevro after Venus and the third part of the book with Darrow in the Rim.

What was the worst/best thing in Light Bringer for you?

Yeah I agree with these

I loveeee the howlers and Virginia reunion, it was so beautiful 😭 Screwface and her being besties makes so much sense she really loves sad boys. Anything about her and Darrow, the battle for Phobos and clang clang were the best I don't even remember the others and Darrow's growth and heal journey was so beautifully written

The worst idk is more like dislikes? TOO much Lysander, Virginia hater editor, Lysander being the big bad villain is meh i hope he brings back the psycho twink and the time in the archi was a bit boring ngl I wanted to skip it. There's something about this one that feels offf but I think I need to reread to find out what it is

When he tells Virginia she can't trust Lysander... I read it like when a kid points out something obvious but you know that they're just learning to live so you're nice and smile 💀 remember that this man is just a himbo he wanted to be useful to her for first time in a decade 😭

[vesperpharsalius]

Too many people on the Red Rising subreddit spend so much time trying to come up with the most out-there theories while not managing to absorb the most straightforward, surface-level information in these books. It's like they're trying to do calculus when they never mastered addition.

Agree completely. The sheer amount of conversations I’ve seen where people fail to understand the most basic RR facts astounds me.

The most obvious one we’ve talked about before: Lyria being pregnant. Makes me laugh. People are still debating it. What the actual fuck.

I also saw a post where people were arguing over whether Tactus would’ve supported Darrow after learning he was Red. Like, hon… PB flat–out said so. Another arguing over the etymology of Darrow’s name, as if Reds aren’t blatantly and canonically Irish–coded. Endless ones fruitlessly debating Virginia’s mysterious source; it’s admittedly unknown, but Abom seems the obvious candidate.

Several over what strain of the Eidmi would affect Darrow, Pax, and Sevro, as if they aren’t canonically Gold to their core. Saw another discussing when Lyria was going to get a proper antagonist; they had to be reminded that Harmony and the Red Hand… existed. Another asked what happened to the Vox Populi, a Lunese political faction, on Mars, and if Mars had become an autocracy.

Do these people read with their eyes closed?

But ones that ask questions directly answered by the book bother me most. Whether Matteo/Quicksilver actually removed the parasite from Lyria, whether Lysander would’ve killed Cassius regardless, whether Cassius knew Lysander would kill him, whether anyone will know Cassius killed Fear, what Lysander’s Evil Plan entails, etc. Maybe… read the book? Lysander’s PoV at the end of LB is admittedly vaguer than necessary, but it’s not that ambiguous. Some things are pretty fucking clear.

Oh, well. The subreddit’s a swamp. What else is new?

[darrowsrising]

I mean, please do laugh, but he was underestimated by idiots, not Darrow. And certainly not Virginia, although Pierce really misused her in Light Bringer for plot reasons.

He always attacked from a safe, borderline cowardly position when he thought for sure he could survive. Cassius and Diomedes insisted to believe he is a good person who would put his ego aside for peace and Darrow had to sit and watch because he lost his aces and couldn't pull something to manipulate/mansplain/manslaughter his way out of it.

Virginia was sabotaged and understaffed and outnumbered due to the Rim and their tactics, not Lysander's. Darrow in Heliopolis has been under siege for almost a year and reduced to little by Atalantia and Atlas.

Cassius could have indeed tried to escape, we don't know if he would have been let to escape at the last minute, but Cassius's death does not mean Lysander is the new ultimate villain, it means that he will not back down from his stance. Cassius could have tried to escape, but he didn't, Lysander took the opportunity of his weakened state to kill him.

Just because he succeeds when his enemies are weakened by bigger fish, doesn't make him a big bad villain. He is intelligent and resourceful and can profit off opportunities. Lysander within a world that has a lot of dangerous, more powerful people,he can easily do something in the shadows and spring up to an opportunity. Then hide back into his hole.

What does he have now to make for a big bad villain? Eidmi. And that is it, because he cannot hide behind anyone else anymore. There are no more fools with influence to stop Darrow from killing him. And sure enough, Darrow can easily make sure to account for this Pixie bitch and not get run into the ground because the Senate is stupid. The thing he doesn't know about is Eidmi, which will surely bite when least expected, but that isn't really his mistake, is it?

But again, how am I supposed to bite ultimate villain Lysander when all he did is lose his weasel privileges and get a genocide toy. He is using Darrow's tactics for fuck's sake. You cannot beat Darrow at his own thing - after all, Darrow will not underestimate him.

So yeah, I am actually laughing that Darrow's evil wanna be clone is the ultimate villain. He is and always will be pathetic.

He actually hinges on dethroning Atalantia to have a shot at defeating the Republic and the Rim, with Eidmi as an ace up his sleeve. He is majorly underestimating Atalantia, she is no Octavia, she's worse.

Over all, I'd say it's actually a valid opinion, rather than an absurdity.

Ngl I do kinda laugh when people say that Lysander isn’t a convincible final villain for the series. Like don’t you know that’s exactly how he wants you to think? Everytime someone downplays him, Lysander someone ends up with the upper hand. The rim, Atlantia, Cassius, Darrow, even FREAKING Mustang have all tried get the upper hand on this little freak and he still ends up on top.

[mishal06]

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[violethowler]

After finishing my re-read of Light Bringer, I have a new theory:

That our boy Darrow O’Lykos, master of hiding his plans from the narration, already knows that Lysander has Eidmi.

During my re-read, I noticed how Darrow was already started to unravel Atlas’s involvement in Volsung Fa’s invasion of the Rim. But the instant that Diomdes confirms that Atlas was responsible for the massacre at Kalyke, Darrow immediately knows exactly what Atlas is planning with the Obsidians and how Lysander factors into it, because in his own worlds, “I know Atlas.”

This implies an incredibly deep level of familiarity with and knowledge of Atlas’s tactics and how the Fear Knight thinks. That just the unconfirmed claim, with no proof whatsoever, that Atlas is was in Ilium, is enough to make the metaphorical lightbulb go off over Darrow's head and give him such accurate, precision insight into the purpose of the Ascomanni invasion of the Rim.

And if Darrow knows Atlas that well, I think it���s very likely that the fact that there was no sign of Atlas during and after the fall of Volsung Fa would’ve been a big red flag that Atlas had other objectives and plans going on besides the Obsidian invasion. Especially because Darrow openly calls Atlas a student of history, and Atlas learned about Eidmi from historical records in Octavia’s vaults – vaults which Darrow and Virginia had unrestricted access to for at least 6 years before the start of Iron Gold.

And then Pytha’s testimony of Cassius’s death and him killing Atlas would’ve given him even more clues. Because Darrow was expecting Cassius to kill Atlas, since that was what Diomedes asked of Lysander as part of the terms for an alliance against Atalantia (mirroring Darrow bringing Fa’s head). So, the fact that Pytha would’ve told Darrow how Lysander and Cassius fought Atlas together only for Lysander to kill Cassius after Atlas was dead would’ve hinted that Cassius learned something in that hangar that Lysander wanted to keep quiet.

So, it’s entirely plausible that Darrow was able to put those pieces together and figure out that Atlas unearthed the Eidmi before Cassius killed him, and included a warning in his transmission home at the end of the book telling Virginia that Lysander has it now.

[randomnoteforfuturereference]

Yeah.

I more mean what was originally planned for the endgame? Pierce Brown noted that this not only had gotten too long, but that he needed to take a step back and reevaluate his path.

Was Book 3 just gonna be a condensed version of what we're getting?

Or, because the Republic was so beaten, did he originally plan to get some super weapons to level the playing field (hypothetical Quick fleet, Lyria actually using Figment, etc)? Was Cassius going to kill Lysander? And so on.

But now that he decided to split the books, it gave him breathing room to build up a more natural alliance and also visit important themes (eg Rim moving away from the hierarchy, the focus on Cassius, Quick's decision to leave, Lysander going to the point of no return, etc). Things are still dire, especially with Lysander having Eidmi, but there’s actual hope now.

I can't help but wonder, if Pierce Brown knew that he was going to make 4 books from the start, that it would have not been revealed that Volsung Fá was an agent of Atlas in Dark Age.

Like when the Obsidians suddenly began attacking the Rim, most if not all of us knew that it was Atlas orchestrating it. So when Atlas revealed himself on the bridge, it was shocking... but not surprising.

Not revealing that tidbit to Ephriam wouldn't have changed the narrative in the slightest, and it would have made Atlas' attack way more of a blindside.

Note this is not a dig against PB. He can't retroactively make us forget he wrote that, and so he worked with what he got. And honestly, it was still good misdirection about the motivation for the attack (I thought Atalantia planned the whole thing).

What it does make me wonder though is what he originally planned.

[darrowsrising]

If Lysander's 'Red or Gold' thing with Eidmi is because he found Darrow's holos of Pax in his Morning Star stateroom, it won't be pretty. At all. And then we don't know how the main cast will react in the book.

[violethowler]

Making some adjustments to my Solar War timeline as I do a chapter-by-chapter re-read of Light Bringer, and I managed to articulate why the introduction of Eidmi into the story doesn't bother me as much as others. (Even if I do shake my fist at the sky over the fact that Darrow doesn't know it's in play yet)

Just like how Iron Gold brought up cloning multiple times via Sophocles and some of Lysander's chapters as foreshadowing for the reveal of The Abomination in Dark Age, both novels prior to Light Bringer frequently brought up the use of chemical weapons by The Society to depopulate territory inhabited by their enemies:

Ephraim mentions in Iron Gold that the first Golds dropped chemical bombs into Earth's atmosphere after the Conquering to sterilize the remaining pre-Color humans.

Right before The Battle of the Ladon in Dark Age, Darrow finds the dead civilians in Angelia "monstrously warped by some pathogen" that apparently also did something to their minds that made them turn on and mutilate each other as they died.

When Atlas talked to Lysander, he revealed that he had just finished testing a chemical weapon to use on Heliopolis that would would wipe out all life in the city, which was what spurred Lysander to infiltrate and take the city the way he did so that he could prevent it from being used.

So the introduction of an artificially made virus that can be modified to attack a single color without harming the rest feels like a logical culmination of this recurring thread, in the same way that the reveal of Adrius II pays off all the mentions of cloning.