#eidmi

[dualquille]

Red God prediction - Red Rising

I’m calling it right now - Lysander will use the Red cube on Mars. He favors Gold too much to use it on them (ex. When he chose Seraphina over all those lowColors in Iron Gold). Deanna, Kieran, and all the rest of Darrow’s Red family on Mars will die. (Pax will survive this.) Rhonna will survive because she is ALIVE and on Mercury (there’s no way she just quietly disappeared forever imo). Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[rangersbecket]

I can't get over Part 4 of Light Bringer being titled Brothers, and how it ultimately boils down to Cassius connecting and contrasting his two brothers on a deeply personal level.

Lysander, a brother lost, Darrow, a brother regained. one kills him for what he perceives to be the greater good, the other wishes nothing more than to have fought and died by his side when they still had that option. they're faced with the same loss, and Lysander moves past it to secure the solution to his problem (Eidmi), while Darrow would trade the solution to his problem (the ships and Moon Lords) for Cassius.

Lysander gave up his brother for the war. Darrow would give up the war for his brother.

if that doesn't declare loud and clear what they each stand for and who they've become, I don't know what does.

[dangerandbeauty]

Theory for Red God…

I’ve been thinking on what may offset Eidmi, and I feel like whatever Mickey is cooking up secretively will be the answer.

In Iron Gold Mickey is said to be stuck in his laboratory, has many “admirers” which he brought to the Opera, many of whom were lowColors according to Daxo. He compared it to a Hieronymus Bosch painting which upon googling looks like a bunch of people scattered in various positions and in odd angles (and typically nude).

I can only infer that he is experimenting on these people.

In Morning Star, Cassius asks Darrow when this war will end, to which Darrow answers, “When there are no colors left”

I think we may actually have to take that literally even though Cassius laughed it off, saying, “oh good, you aimed low.” Maybe this is really what will end the war.

I think Mickey is concocting something that will rid people of their color somehow, or perhaps set people back to the original human settings from centuries before all the eugenics and carvings that created the hierarchy.

We know Mickey is supportive of the Rising and helps whenever he can—he gifted Virginia that Venusian glass hourglass when she legalized intercolor reproduction, the act which had previously lost him his licensure under the society, and he carved Lyria’s nephew to give him eyesight.

Of course there’s other things he could be doing, but the fact that it still hasn’t been revealed yet, and we have this bio weapon that can attack specific colors, and the ONLY person we know that could affect that at all would be Mickey and all his knowledge of DNA and experience in biological meddling, these all point to him being the saving grace.

[aeithalian]

Light Bringer thoughts

spoilers below:

So the fact that Virginia disappeared from the narrative after the first half of the book kinda threw me for a loop, but I suppose if she had gotten a subplot of her own, it would have felt like we were getting pulled from the action too much… because the Darrow/Lyria/Lys*nder side of the story was all one cohesive plot, and Virginia’s POV, had it been maintained, would have added a certain level of unrelated chaos, with the audience getting jerked away to Mars every so often. So while I missed her, I can appreciate why Pierce didn’t include her as much. 

I LOVELOVELOVE getting outsider POVs of Darrow. Our only other one was from Lys*nder in Dark Age. When Lyria hung around and got to really know Darrow was when she was solidified as one of my favorite characters, for the pure merit that she was able to change her perspective from the myth to the man. It made me realize that more people would like Darrow if he wasn’t famous for war. That and I love the stark difference between how Darrow is in his own head and how he is to other people. It’s so much fun. Likewise, an outsider POV of Lyria was equally fun as well. 

Figment. It’s… I don’t know. I think I expected it to have a bigger payout? Or I expected Lyria to have it for longer. Figment was a really cool mystery that didn’t get fleshed out. But then I realized that the story didn’t really need another physically powerful female character. We have Virginia, Victra, and Volga for that. Aurae, Athena, Theodora (RIP), and now Lyria are a new brand of strong female characters that I’m really glad Pierce has gotten into a groove with - strong, empathetic women who don’t need to hold their own in a fight to be respected and awesome in their own rights. So no, I don’t think Lyria will ever be that ‘red god’ character people thought she might become, because that’s not where her strength lies. And who says Figment won’t return? (No, I don’t think Matteo left it in, but who knows)

I honestly wish Volsung Fá had been introduced earlier, I think it would have made him seem like a bigger threat. The fact that he was introduced as Atlas’ puppet, which was supposed to be this huge mystery to the Volk and the Ascommani, is something we knew the whole time, and decreases on the ‘drama’ of it, I think. I’m excited for an adaptation of him, though! The fear that he supposedly evokes is something that I was kinda missing, so I’d be excited to see it on a screen for a bigger effect. 

BREATH OF STONE HOLY SHIT this entire sequence was so good. I actually teared up. I was so excited. The ‘clang clang clang’ “confess”? Daddy Darrow. ohmygod. Darrow rediscovering his roots in the mines of Mars? A spiritual experience. AND he recreated the Trojan Horse moment from Red Rising and it was like a little part of me was healed. It was so good. That moment where he talks about the game he played with Eo as kids really got me because I think this is the first time in a while where he’s looked back on his memories of Eo and not thought about her death and her dream, but her life. I think he remembered why he loved her so much, and it made me like her a bit more too. But the power up moment. So good. Ugh. 

I’m gonna be honest. I saw Cassius’ death coming from a mile away. But it hit me WAY harder than I thought it would. I was never his biggest fan, even in Iron Gold, but I knew I was in for it when he rejected the ‘au’ honorific to Matteo, and I really started seeing his development. And his last words? Gut punch. I’ll never get over that. Formally rejecting Gold? Claiming Darrow as a brother in life and in oath? Declaring solidarity with the Republic? Yes, Cassius. Your honor does remain. 

The fact that Atlas died in this book kinda freaks me out, because I really thought he was going to be the big boss at the end of the story, because Atalantia doesn’t scare me enough just yet. But now that Lys*nder has the Eidmi, I’m getting a bit nervy. Lys*nder was fine before because he was never a real threat. But there’s nothing more terrifying than a man who has all the power in the world and doesn’t know what to do with it. 

My last thought: Fuck Lys*nder. This absolute pisspot. This pubic hair of a being. This man - no, *BOY* - is going to forever taint my idea of the word ‘honor’, not because he has any, but because he is a bastardization of everything honorable people stand for. He can say he has honor over and over again, but when it clashes with his reputation, he always fails to do the honorable thing. Killing your brother? Not honorable. Doing it for a weapon that will let you commit mass genocide? Hm….. not very honorable, methinks.

Predictions for Red God:

Red God is Darrow. No question. The term ‘red god’ has come up before, in direct reference to Darrow in Dark Age (someone was talking to Alexander) and I heard someone saying it might be Lyria, but honestly, I doubt it.

There are still a couple mysteries that didn’t get revealed that I was curious about: in Dark Age, Virginia says that the Pandemonium Chair was only ever used twice, once being on Lysander… so what was the other time? Similarly, when Atlas is getting un-carved from his Helios-doppleganger body, it’s mentioned that this isn’t his first time, and Lysander noted it as unusual. So what’s up?

I still really think that Lyria’s brothers were the snipers Darrow ordered to kill Lysander during the Long Night. We’ll have to see where that goes. 

Eidmi. It honestly feels too simple, and I’m worried that Atlas wasn’t telling the full truth. Bitch didn’t even have a plan for it, but the thing is, he was afraid of Atalantia having it, because he was afraid she would use it wrong. But oh honorable Lysander (please sense the sarcasm) I don’t really think you should be any less afraid of genocide just because you’re the one holding the trigger. I actually think he’ll try to use it on Luna first, but I don’t know if he’ll be able to get it that close to the planet itself. He probably won’t use it on Mercury, because that’s where he’s going to try his major rejuvenation efforts. And he’s more afraid of Atalantia than he is of the Republic, so Mars probably isn’t that high up on his priority list - remember, he thinks Darrow is dead, doesn’t know the Volk, Daughters, and Rim are all flying to protect Mars, and has wildly underestimated the power of the Republic. He might blame it on the Republic, in a last-ditch effort to get any Golds that haven’t claimed a side to do so. It's almost impossible to predict, because Pierce is inherently a very unpredictable author.

The Abomination is an interesting stone left unturned. The thing is, I thought Virginia might have had a chance to turn him good (?) before she tried to kill him, and I thought she actually could have done it if not for Lilath. Maybe she’ll use the PsychoSpike on him, and somehow implant memories of the real Adrius in him so she’ll have a chance to show him the love he didn’t have before. Because I saw someone say the same thing about wiping Lysander’s memories, but I really don’t think Lysander would take any chance he has for redemption, he’s already turned his back on ‘honor’ too many times. The Abomination, on the other hand, probably wouldn’t have done anything wrong had be been guided by a hand other than Lilath’s. I think there’s hope for him. 

I don’t think Rhonna is dead! No body, no death, especially with Pierce. In the Dramatis Personae, she’s described as ‘lost’, not dead. Chekov’s gun, and all that. 

Darrow better not die. Here’s the thing, though. If the Darrow we saw in Dark Age had carried over through Light Bringer, I think Pierce would be setting him up to die. But now that he’s got the Breath of Stone, the Path to the Vale, and the power given to him by letting go of his guilt and worry, it’s setting him up for a happy ending, moreso than I remember ever reading the rest of the series. I think LB!Darrow is the first time we’ve really seen him believe that he could also live. Remember, he’s always thought he’d end his story as a martyr for the Rising/Republic. But now I think he knows he can not just fight for more, but live for more too. Sevro said it well. We’re tired of this shit. Let’s band together so we can start living rather than surviving. 

[violethowler]

After finishing my re-read of Light Bringer, I have a new theory:

That our boy Darrow O’Lykos, master of hiding his plans from the narration, already knows that Lysander has Eidmi.

During my re-read, I noticed how Darrow was already started to unravel Atlas’s involvement in Volsung Fa’s invasion of the Rim. But the instant that Diomdes confirms that Atlas was responsible for the massacre at Kalyke, Darrow immediately knows exactly what Atlas is planning with the Obsidians and how Lysander factors into it, because in his own worlds, “I know Atlas.”

This implies an incredibly deep level of familiarity with and knowledge of Atlas’s tactics and how the Fear Knight thinks. That just the unconfirmed claim, with no proof whatsoever, that Atlas is was in Ilium, is enough to make the metaphorical lightbulb go off over Darrow's head and give him such accurate, precision insight into the purpose of the Ascomanni invasion of the Rim.

And if Darrow knows Atlas that well, I think it’s very likely that the fact that there was no sign of Atlas during and after the fall of Volsung Fa would’ve been a big red flag that Atlas had other objectives and plans going on besides the Obsidian invasion. Especially because Darrow openly calls Atlas a student of history, and Atlas learned about Eidmi from historical records in Octavia’s vaults – vaults which Darrow and Virginia had unrestricted access to for at least 6 years before the start of Iron Gold.

And then Pytha’s testimony of Cassius’s death and him killing Atlas would’ve given him even more clues. Because Darrow was expecting Cassius to kill Atlas, since that was what Diomedes asked of Lysander as part of the terms for an alliance against Atalantia (mirroring Darrow bringing Fa’s head). So, the fact that Pytha would’ve told Darrow how Lysander and Cassius fought Atlas together only for Lysander to kill Cassius after Atlas was dead would’ve hinted that Cassius learned something in that hangar that Lysander wanted to keep quiet.

So, it’s entirely plausible that Darrow was able to put those pieces together and figure out that Atlas unearthed the Eidmi before Cassius killed him, and included a warning in his transmission home at the end of the book telling Virginia that Lysander has it now.

[darrowsrising]

To think Darrow has sacrificed himself for his family over and over again, just to eventually lose them to a genocide en masse via Eidmi.

He gave everything he could of himself and always saw the best in people and not even Dark Age made him less disposed to do so. And now he'll get hit the way he least expects, probably can't even imagine, because he doesn't know.

It is too cruel, too horrible to have this looming after Dark Age. It is too cruel to have his kindness spat on, his good nature exploited, his consideration dismissed, especially after Dark Age. Not all that is good surviving and rising from the ashes just to turn against him over and over.

I hope he at least gets a warning. Maybe the clone knows something, maybe Virginia figures it out in time. He deserved better dammit. Even if he cannot prevent anything in the end, he should know. If he knows when it's too late...too cruel.

[chatte-noire]

tho8ghts on darrow and lysanders ☆stagenames☆

darrow is MORNING STAR

lysander is LIGHT BRINGER

those warsonas are also 2 aliases of LUCIFER. eh lucifer morningstar, lucifer the lightbringer etc etc.

so what kind of parallel does this create?

darrow and lysander as... two sides of the same coin ( ?

.. different incarnations of the devil? they sure are war criming enough for that symbolism

.. their fall from grace? tbh darrow crawled out of the gutter more iconically and more often. lysander just had his desert moment thats not lucifer fall from heaven-material but lets wait for red god (and hope he stays in the gutter(

.. their corruption from angel to devil? both started pretty innocently and had a character arc that turned pretty dark at one point

... their hubris? (/superbia, pride) lucifer wanted to be god, both darrow and lyly have some pretty strong hubris ngl lysander "I'm the slave shepherd" lune and darrow "the kingdom of death has only one king" of lykos both strong contenders and yes light resistance bringer is more delusional but reaper had 10yrs war experience and still sailed on mercury

... kings of hell? darrow has some pretty strong hellfire aesthetic going on with being raised under the earth, literally being a helldiver, lots of red vibes (mars & his colour), themes of heat/pain etc etc. lysander burning the garter, surviving the ladon and claiming eidmi also has a growing king of hell vibe.

..rebirth? darrow from red to gold to morningstar, lysander from lune to nobody to lightbringer?

many possibilitiesss.

PREDICTIONSs!!!: what can this symbolism mean for red God?

Venus will play a central role, main battle will be there - cause venus is the morning star aka light bringer aka lucifer

lysander will have his fall from heaven but wont reemerge cause he has no friends parallel to golden son/morningstar arc

hubris will be a theme like come on the book is called red god?? darrow will be torn between his unlocked wise path and his need for speed

[vesperpharsalius]

Too many people on the Red Rising subreddit spend so much time trying to come up with the most out-there theories while not managing to absorb the most straightforward, surface-level information in these books. It's like they're trying to do calculus when they never mastered addition.

Agree completely. The sheer amount of conversations I’ve seen where people fail to understand the most basic RR facts astounds me.

The most obvious one we’ve talked about before: Lyria being pregnant. Makes me laugh. People are still debating it. What the actual fuck.

I also saw a post where people were arguing over whether Tactus would’ve supported Darrow after learning he was Red. Like, hon… PB flat–out said so. Another arguing over the etymology of Darrow’s name, as if Reds aren’t blatantly and canonically Irish–coded. Endless ones fruitlessly debating Virginia’s mysterious source; it’s admittedly unknown, but Abom seems the obvious candidate.

Several over what strain of the Eidmi would affect Darrow, Pax, and Sevro, as if they aren’t canonically Gold to their core. Saw another discussing when Lyria was going to get a proper antagonist; they had to be reminded that Harmony and the Red Hand… existed. Another asked what happened to the Vox Populi, a Lunese political faction, on Mars, and if Mars had become an autocracy.

Do these people read with their eyes closed?

But ones that ask questions directly answered by the book bother me most. Whether Matteo/Quicksilver actually removed the parasite from Lyria, whether Lysander would’ve killed Cassius regardless, whether Cassius knew Lysander would kill him, whether anyone will know Cassius killed Fear, what Lysander’s Evil Plan entails, etc. Maybe… read the book? Lysander’s PoV at the end of LB is admittedly vaguer than necessary, but it’s not that ambiguous. Some things are pretty fucking clear.

Oh, well. The subreddit’s a swamp. What else is new?

[mishal06]

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[violethowler]

Making some adjustments to my Solar War timeline as I do a chapter-by-chapter re-read of Light Bringer, and I managed to articulate why the introduction of Eidmi into the story doesn't bother me as much as others. (Even if I do shake my fist at the sky over the fact that Darrow doesn't know it's in play yet)

Just like how Iron Gold brought up cloning multiple times via Sophocles and some of Lysander's chapters as foreshadowing for the reveal of The Abomination in Dark Age, both novels prior to Light Bringer frequently brought up the use of chemical weapons by The Society to depopulate territory inhabited by their enemies:

Ephraim mentions in Iron Gold that the first Golds dropped chemical bombs into Earth's atmosphere after the Conquering to sterilize the remaining pre-Color humans.

Right before The Battle of the Ladon in Dark Age, Darrow finds the dead civilians in Angelia "monstrously warped by some pathogen" that apparently also did something to their minds that made them turn on and mutilate each other as they died.

When Atlas talked to Lysander, he revealed that he had just finished testing a chemical weapon to use on Heliopolis that would would wipe out all life in the city, which was what spurred Lysander to infiltrate and take the city the way he did so that he could prevent it from being used.

So the introduction of an artificially made virus that can be modified to attack a single color without harming the rest feels like a logical culmination of this recurring thread, in the same way that the reveal of Adrius II pays off all the mentions of cloning.

[darrowsrising]

If Lysander's 'Red or Gold' thing with Eidmi is because he found Darrow's holos of Pax in his Morning Star stateroom, it won't be pretty. At all. And then we don't know how the main cast will react in the book.

[darrowsrising]

I still think that having Atlas built to be the ultimate enemy for Darrow, only to be then sacrificed for Cassius to have a grand moment and for Lysander to take his spot is not subversive.

It's just disappointing. Sure, the actual duel was well-written, but the actual choice doesn't work no matter how it is spinned. Atlas was more seasoned, more intelligent, beyond master strategist at this point and his parallells to Darrow helped create tension.

Now I am supposed to buy Lysander, because he has Eidmi. He also got Kyber out of nowhere and no amount of fan wanking could sell this guy to me as Darrow's nemessis. He is a foil, while there is tension via anti-parallels and motifs, Lysander is not Atlas and the ice is getting thin.

[darrowsrising]

Mars has always had 'death by a thousand cuts' as its last and most effective defence mechanism. Which is poetic and heart-breaking as fuck, because it boils down to Reds and their connection to Mars and how steadfast and dedicated they can be. Loyalty, pure and simple. All-enduring.

All in all, I am not looking forward to its utter obliteration via Eidmi, while Darrow is unaware or finds out, but it's too late to do anything. It's top 10 anime betrayals for sure. Because that is what it is - Darrow doesn't know and he could have and prepared. Even if he failed - which we cannot know - he should have been informed.

[violethowler]

Atalantia the Master Actress

So a few nights ago I was re-reading Part I of Light Bringer and it occurred to me that not only the Siege of Phobos would never have happened if Atalantia hadn't summoned Lysander to Earth for her summit, but Atlas's campaign against the Rim would've gone ahead without a hitch. Because by Atlas's own admission, Atalantia was heavily involved in his plans to attack the Rim. Her Syndicate contacts were the one responsible for obtaining the footage and selling it to Dido.

And if Lysander had stayed on Mercury, he wouldn't have had any chance of calling for an attack on Mars. Which means the Rim fleet would've already been en route back to Jupiter when the Obsidian invasion of Ilium began. And Lysander not being on the Dustmaker means that Diomedes would've been killed, the Rim Conquered, and Eidmi recovered by Atlas with no one the wiser and the Rim conquered without anyone in the Core being the wiser.

(Because without Mars being under siege, Sevro would've stayed on Mars with Victra and his daughters, leaving Darrow, Cassius, and Aurae to continue onward to Quicksilver and The Rim (with Lyria) alone, and without Sevro to advocate for him, the chances of the Daughters not executing Darrow for what he did in Morning Star would've been significantly slimmer, if not nonexistent)

Then I remembered that Cicero tells Lysander when they pick him up from Kalyk that Julia has been "playing Cassandra" and that "She thinks Atalantia will sail on Mars any day." And in one interview, Pierce mentioned that he'd originally considered having the final chapter of Light Bringer be Virginia's POV as Atalantia's ships arrive over Mars.

And this stuck out to me, because timeline wise, we're still a month away from her planned Iron Rain on Luna. So why would Atalantia sail against Mars after all the difficulties that Atlas had told Lysander about back before the Summit?

But then I remembered in Dark Age how Atalantia acted as if Lysander and Diomedes revealing that Darrow was the one responsible for destroying the Ganymede Docks was the first time she was hearing about this... Yet according to Atlas she was the one who obtained the footage to sell to the Rim in the first place!

And that made me realize that Atalantia was playing Lysander throughout the entire novel. Her announcement of an Iron Rain on Luna 6 months after the summit was meant to provoke the Rim into leaving their alliance, with the plan being for Volsung Fa to start the campaign while the Rim warships were on their back to Jupiter in order to encourage them to expedite their journey home.

By bringing Lysander to the Summit and telling him her plan, she gambled on him objecting anyway in spite of her threats to Glirastes because no matter what he did she would benefit:

If he stayed quiet and did as he was told, the plan would continue unchanged.

But by objecting and calling for an assault on Mars by his own faction, he allows her to wear down the Republic's defenses on the planet while exhausting and depleting the resources of the Rim fleet and his own faction, leaving the Rim fleet weakened when Atlas springs his ambush at Kalyke, all without her having to lift a finger.

And this would've happened even if she hadn't told Lysander her plans in advance, because he was already gung ho for attacking Mars before he'd even arrived at the Summit due to knowing the Rim would break off the alliance if she didn't agree to doing so.

The purpose of telling Lysander her war strategy and threatening Glirastes is really just to make Lysander think that he's making the choice to object of his own free will and taking a stand for his principles instead of playing right into her hands.

And all of this just really makes me appreciate what a masterful actress Atalantia is.

She knew about Darrow destroying the Ganymede Docks long before Lysander and Diomedes reached Mercury at the start of Dark Age, yet never once gives Lysander or the reader any indication that she isn't just now learning about it for the first time.

Not to mention the fact that she was able to perfectly imitate her father's speech patterns and mannerisms through holo conversations for three years straight without Darrow, Virginia, or anyone in Republic Intelligence ever suspecting that they weren't listening/talking to the Ash Lord.

I dunno, it just really hit me during my re-read how good her acting is that it took me this long to realize that her interactions with Lysander and the Golds at the summit were nothing but a performance to make her rivals dance to her tune.

And it really solidified for me that she is the true main antagonist of the entire tetralogy. Because yeah, Lysander is a villainous foil to Darrow. But Atalantia is the one who gets the direct "I would've lived in peace but my enemies brought me war" callback to parallel the opening lines of the saga right there in Iron Gold. She is the one pulling the strings behind every threat in each POV (except the Red Hand, though if we find out in Red God that The Syndicate was secretly funneling funds and resources to Harmony, I will not be surprised).

Quite frankly I'm fully expecting Lysander to return to the Core just for Atalantia to immediately cut off all his plans at the knees and thank him fulfilling his purpose in her plans because she knew exactly how he'd behave if he managed to survive Kalyke.

[mishal06]

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