#ducan Quagmire

[snicketstrange]

Who is the possible survivor of the fire to which the Snicket File refers?

Short theory:

The sentence on page 13 states: "Because of the evidence discussed on page nine, experts now suspect that there may in fact be one survivor of the fire, but the survivor's whereabouts are unknown".

It can't be Quigley Quagmire, as the file explicitly states "one survivor," not "another survivor." Given that Isadora and Duncan Quagmire's survival is public knowledge, we're not discussing the Quagmire mansion fire. The clues point to the Baudelaire mansion fire and the alleged arsonist, Lemony Snicket, who has also been declared dead. This leads us to believe that Lemony, initially presumed dead and guilty, had his death status questioned by experts. Kit and Jacques Snicket, as shown in LSTUA and TCC, are on a mission to clear Lemony's name and confirm his survival, despite their grave doubts.

The Snicket File, aptly named "Snicket Fires" by Hall, underlines their fight against their brother's fiery accusations.

[snicketstrange]

I am very proud of this joint theory, as this is one of the most difficult apparent contradictions to explain.

*Joint Theory 4: @unfortunatetheorist with @snicketstrange* :

Liar, Liar? Quag's on Fire? - (BCT & NCT)

We're back! This time, to discuss the apparent contradiction surrounding the Quagmire fire:

How did Duncan and Isadora get out of the Orphans Shack if their parents were already dead when they got there?

But perhaps, more importantly, When did the Quagmire fire occur?

Well, there are some key excerpts that further our understanding:

The letter to the editor found in TAA indicates that the Baudelaires stayed a half-term (half-semester) at Prufrock-Prep.

According to Nero, for a child to live in the good apartments of Prufrock-Prep, a signature from a parent or guardian would be required. It could not be Mr. Poe, who was in charge of their inheritance.

TAA - Chapter 3: "My sister and I went through the experience of a terrible fire, and we know what it's like. Did your father die in the fire?" "Our parents also died in a fire. It's horrible to miss your parents, isn't it?" "For a long time," Duncan confessed, "I was afraid of any kind of fire. I didn't even like to look at heaters or fireplaces." "Duncan and I had to live there for three terms because we needed a father or mother or a guardian to sign our authorization pass, and we had no one."

According to Quigley's account in TSS, the fire occurred after the events in TRR.

Brett Helquist's Letter to Lemony from Ch 11 of LSTUA:

Note: There was a Quagmire case that Lemony Snicket was accused of being involved in that PRECEDED the Baudelaire mansion fire. (Mr. Helquist arrived at the mansion while it was still on fire, and made the drawing that can be found in TBB).

Quigley's speech from Ch 8 of TSS:

You can verify that the Quagmire fire, according to Quigley, happened after the events described in TRR, that is, after the Baudelaire mansion was destroyed.

And all the main events described from TBB until Ch 13 of The End, take place within a MAXIMUM of 1 year. We know this because Violet and Klaus start the story at 14 and 12 years old, respectively, and have birthdays during the story: Klaus in TVV and Violet in TGG, and when they arrive on the island they are 15 and 13 years old respectively.

Actually, this is something the showrunners of the Netflix series picked up on - and SOLVED:

THEORY: The Quagmire parents faked their deaths. This means the children would've been sent to the Orphans' Shack before the revelation of Mr & Mrs Quagmire being alive allowed Isadora and Duncan to live in the apartment section of Prufrock Prep - they would've been alive to sign the necessary paperwork, and thus get out of the Shack. Then they died for REAL, meaning that the two triplets went back to Prufrock, but they STAYED at the dormitory because the papers had already been signed.

Netflix clears a lot of it up [hence 'BCT & NCT'], answering the questions we posed earlier:

Q: How did Duncan and Isadora get out of the Orphans Shack if their parents were already dead when they got there?

A: They were sent to the Orphans' Shack during the time when their parents' deaths were faked. The problem was that they didn't have someone to sign the paperwork. The Orphans' Shack is a temporary location until the parents can sign the paperwork. They only managed to get out of there, because their parents weren't really dead, and they signed the papers. When their parents actually died, they had already signed the papers.

Q: When did the Quagmire fire occur?

A: As Netflix states it, during the events of TMM.

¬ Th3r3534rch1ngr4ph & @snicketstrange,

Unfortunate Theorists/Snicketologists

[unfortunate-stranger-losers]

Ducan+Klaus descendants AU headcanons? I'm officially curious after the adorable Quiglet headcanons.

OH GOOD I HAVE TONS OF THESE TOO

Klaus is not as onboard with the “invite the VKs to Auradon” plan; he is pretty sure that they’ll be planning something and the last thing he wants is for his family to get hurt. So when they show up he tries to be the tough scary prince, but Duncan “oblivious autistic” Quagmire is just not picking up on that.

Duncan keeps asking questions and getting excited about things, no matter how many times the VKs tell him to shut up, and Klaus eventually warms up to this kid who’s just so excited to have a library and a school paper and holy shit are we friends?? can we be FRIENDS??

Duncan keeps bothering Klaus about what rules he’s supposed to follow and asking about social cues and how to make friends and finally Klaus is just like “why don’t you come study with me and Friday” Duncan is fucking fascinated by everything. Friday and Klaus get super excited because they can literally infodump anything to him and he’ll take notes and ask questions and actually genuinely want to learn. Which of course leads to “Oh shit he’s cute.” 

Klaus is in denial for a while because that’s the son of Maleficent, Klaus, you can’t LIKE him, he’s probably planning something.  

But. well, GOD he’s so adorable. 

Eventually Klaus finds himself trusting Duncan and opening up about how he kinda feels a bit pressured by the whole “royal child” thing and how sometimes he’d just like to hide in the library forever, but how he’s also super stressed by trying to make sure his chaos sisters don’t die. 

And then Duncan kinda starts opening up a little. too. Mentioning how shitty his life was and how awful his Mom is and how he constantly feels like a disappointment all the time, all that happy stuff. Klaus is just like “holy shit.” 

One day, Klaus is halfway through an infodump and then quiets and asks if he’s being annoying; a lot of the other royal kids have told him that. Duncan assures him that he loves hearing Klaus talk. “I could listen to you talk about anything forever!” 

Klaus is in love. 

They get super close, to the point where Friday’s thought they’ve been dating since day one. She totally ships it. They’re both in denial tho. 

Until one day Duncan accidentally rips some pages out of a library book while it���s just him and Klaus studying- he drops the book, tries to grab it, rips some pages. He goes into a full-on panic attack, scared that he’s going to get some kind of awful punishment. 

Klaus manages to calm him down, telling him over and over that he knows it was a mistake and nobody’s going to hurt him anymore. It ends with Duncan hugging him and crying, and Klaus finds himself softly singing “A Change in Me” to him. 

When Duncan stops crying, Klaus asks if he’s alright. 

“I am now.” 

That’s about when Klaus impulsively kisses him. 

Then they just stare at each other in a long, awkward silence until Friday and Sunny burst in with some cool plants they found outside.  

[dingusandsmartypants]

If you’d like to be added to the list of people to tag in any of the following ship fics I’m working on, please send me an ask (off anon), or comment on this post and I will tag you in any of the fics with the characters/ships you specify!

Gotham: It’s literally all just Baby BatCat stuff.

ASOUE:  Ships: -Violet/Isadora -Violet/Quigley (don’t currently have any fics in the works for this ship, but I know it’ll happen at some point -- even if it’s not requested I’ll probably write one at some point because they are my childhood otp) -Violet/Duncan -Klaus/Ducan -Klaus/Isadora 

Sibling Fics: -The Quagmire Triplets -The Baudelaire Siblings -Beatrice Jr and the Baudelaires

I’ll reblog the [incomplete] list of fics again after this, so you get an idea of what some of the fics I’m working on are, too.

And if you want to request a fic, please don’t hesitate! I always love getting prompts! You can also check out my hashtag “sentenceprompt” for ideas if you’d like!

[absolxguardian]

UNFORTUNATE FALLS: ASUTERE ACADEMY Here's the first summary. Ersatz Elevator will becoming soon, but Vile Village will have a bit of delay because I still have to draw the fanart for it. -The plot first branches when the Baudelaires are being bullied by Cameltia. Before the Quagmires can stand up for them, Stan beats them to the punch, telling her to shut up. Cameltia calls them "the idiot and his freak brother". Isadora is close behind to invite the new students to her table. They introduce themselves. When the Quagmires and Baudelaires bond over both being orphans, Stan and Ford are a bit uncomfortable. The Pines twins have only been here for a week, but the Quagmires were the only people who wouldn't tease Ford. -The 7 children become fast friends. Stan does hang back a lot as they spent a lot of time doing nerd stuff. Stan and Ford are both in Mr. Ramora's class. -Stuff precedes mostly normally...as in it sucks. -Instead of talking about their dreams of opening a printing press before things get a lot worse, it's treasure hunting. On a boat. Stan and Ford already want to do this, and even left an unfinished Stan O' War in Glass-shard Beach(a beach that's part of the same coast line as Briny Beach, but separated by a big rocks formation). Violet says she could use her inventing skills to upgrade it, while Klaus and Ducan could help catalog what they find exploring. The orphans even offer to use their families' fortunes to fund it when they come of age. -Then things get a lot worse when Count Olaf shows up, disguised as Coach Ghengis, stuff proceeds mostly how it does in cannon, however as soon as he shows up Stan and Ford start looking suspicious. Olaf seems to recognize the twins too. -Olaf is able to flatter Nero enough to excuse both himself and the Pines twins excused for part of the recital. The Quagmires and Baudelaires make their plans like normal, but halfway through, Olaf and the Pines return. -Stan and Ford are more startled than normal. They beg the Baudelaires not to confront Olaf untill they have evidence, as it would be too dangerous. When asked about what Olaf talked to the Pines twins about, Stan and Ford grow quiet. The conversation settles into an uneasy silence. -Stuff proceeds normally and the orphans still try to tell Nero about Olaf. The change come a few days later when Cameltia informs them about the S.O.R.E sessions. Stan and Ford will both have to serve as Olaf's assistants. -The first S.O.R.E session is just as bewildering as in cannon. Stan and Ford just have to stand around a record how many laps the Baudelaires have done. They assume the Pines twins are being used as hostages. -Forced to stay up all night, both the Baudelaires and Pines are extremely sleep deprived(and the Quagmires to a lesser extent). However Stanford "Sleep is for the week" Pines pulls through. Turns out he smuggled in a bag of coffee beans when he was sent to the school (I realize this is similar to a plot point in SYBIS). He makes some low quality coffee(it tastes terrible, but it has a lot of caffeine) with their drinks to help keep all of them awake. -The problem is, running off of caffeine can make you jumpy, paranoid, and spacey. Although they can remain awake in the classes, they're either too jittery to properly record notes or they blank out completely. The Pines' and Baudelaires' grades start to suffer drastically. Stan tries to help them by teaching them how to cheat off of Isadora and Duncan, but the Baudelaires are reluctant and not very good. Stan continues too, while Ford doesn't have any moral quadaries about it and manages. However, you can't give a baby coffee, so Sunny is still sleeping on the job. -So yeah, everyone is an emotional wreck. Also they're only young teenagers. Their hearts can barely handle the stress. -Really everything up to when the Quagmires are kidnapped is the same. Since Stan and Ford are cheating and don't have to exercise during the S.O.R.E sessions, their grades save them from having to do the extra hard exam, so they attend the final session with the Quagmires in disguise. -When the Baudelaires chase after the Quagmires, the Pines twins are also being dragged by the white-faced ladies, however they aren't struggling. It's hard to tell if they are helping Olaf or not. -Once the Quagmires are in the car, the Pines are pushed to the grass. Stan gets back up and joins the Baudelaires in chasing after the car. -The car gets away as expected. It ends the same, but now the Baudelaires feel conflicted and betrayed because of the Pines. Nero also expels the Pines kids in addition to the Baudelaires.

[bitchesbereading-blog-blog]

[snicketstrange]

Rereading The End Chapter 13

Chapter 13: From the moment the Baudelaire teeth bit down on the apple—first Violet's, and then Klaus's, and then Sunny's—the stalks and caps of the Medusoid Mycelium began to shrink, and within moments all traces of the dreaded mushroom had withered away, and the children could breathe clearly and easily. The hybrid apple almost instantly cures the disease caused by the deadly fungus MM. This leads me to the conclusion that Kit's death was unnecessary. Kit could have been saved if the moment Beatrice Jr had her umbilical cord cut, she ate an apple. I don't know why Violet didn't even think about it, even if it didn't work out, I think it would be good for someone to have mentioned the possibility of saving Kit. "Stockpot," Sunny said, and walked to the rack of pots on the ceiling, where the snake helped her take down an enormous metal pot that could hold a great number of apples and in fact had been used to make an enormous vat of applesauce a number of years previously." This passage makes me even more certain that Lemony had read the island book, for how else would he know that precisely that cauldron was the same one that had been used to make a particular dessert years before? Certainly he read the island book and was able to compare information previously written in the book with the new information written by the Baudelaires. "Who was playing the violin in the candlelit restaurant when the Baudelaire parents first laid eyes on one another..." This description bothers me a lot. This seems to indicate that Bertrand and Beatrice met for the first time in a restaurant, however, I believed that one of the people cited by Lemony as B in the VFD school on TBL in Lemony's childhood was Bertrand. But to think that Bertrand Baudelaire first met Beatrice a few years after she met Lemony makes more sense given that Lemony apparently didn't trust Bertrand very much. In ATWQ, the way S. talks to Lemony about Bertrand seems to indicate that Lemony didn't know Bertrand personally or at least wasn't intimate with him. Ish suggests that all islanders leave the island after being poisoned. I always imagined that Ish actually believed he could save everyone by getting to the factory that produced the poison's thinner. But rereading the chapter today, I realized that his plan was to let everyone die. Those people had failed to produce a peaceful community, and he himself had failed as a facilitator. As I said, Olaf had triumphed. Ish apparently acknowledged his defeat. But for some reason, this motivated him to let everyone die except himself. And just as some cult leaders led all the faithful to commit collective suicide by making them believe that this was the way to achieve salvation, Ish also made his faithful commit collective suicide. The deadly MM fungus wouldn't spread across the world, and Ish knew it. He would make sure everyone was dead before they reached shore.  I'm sorry for Friday... Ish has become a child killer. Friday chose to die rather than withdraw from her family's religious sect even though she was smart enough to realize that her decision would result in her own death. Daniel Handler makes the dangerous message in Ish's words very clear: "Your mother is right, Friday," Ishmael said firmly. "You should respect your parent's wishes."  This time it wasn't a suggestion: it was something Ish said Friday should do. Ish didn't want to lose any of his faithful. Ish knew that apples could heal the island people, because he had read about it in the island book. He ate the apple himself to save himself. He really decided to kill the entire colony. And everyone followed him blindly to death. But did they survive through the apple that Ink brought to them? I truly believe Daniel Handler inserted that hope here just to lessen how dark the story was. He left that question unanswered. Lemony Snicket doesn't know if they died or not. But I'm pretty sure Daniel Handler knows they're dead. People refused to eat the apple, even when they were poisoned, even with the arguments of the Baudelaires. Why would they change their minds when a serpent that doesn't speak came to the vessel? Ish didn't want people to eat the apple, he wanted them to die. Do you really think Ish would let one of the islanders eat the apple when the snake arrived? Also, how much time did the islanders have before they passed out from lack of air? The Baudelaires were infected at the same time and had almost no strength... So, in a few minutes the chance of saving the islanders through a single apple brought by a mute animal would become close to zero, considering that the only person who would still be awake and with strength would be Ish himself, who evidently didn't want anyone to eat the apple. Now let's talk about Kit again. "How reliable is Snicket a narrator?" I think this question is asked many times and there are still people who will defend one side or the other of the issue. However now I realized that maybe we were asking the right question about the wrong Snicket. Kit Snicket needs to be re-evaluated with regard to her narration being trustworthy or not. It is true that the certainty of death often makes a person very trustworthy. But there's an important detail about this: Kit wasn't sure she was going to die. Kit believed that survival was possible, precisely because the cure was so close to her. "I hope I'm half as good a mother as yours was, Violet," she said. "You will be," Klaus said. "I don't know," (Kit said)  I believe Kit's plan was to have the baby and then be a good mother to her. Despite that, she also knew she could die. Therefore, as death was not an absolute certainty, total honesty was perhaps not the only option. Now let's get back to what we actually know: 1 - Kit claimed that the Queequeg was attacked. 2 - Fernald went to Hector's mobile home with the object of attacking it and according to Lemony Snicket that's what he did. (See TPP chapter 8)- 3 - According to Olaf, the Carmelite Submarine was stolen by Fernald and Fiona. (See TPP chapter 9 In other words, while Fernald was fighting the Quagmires he had already betrayed Olaf and he had already stolen Olaf's submarine along with Fiona. Come to think of it, realize how unlikely it is that what Kit said was true. She said: "I failed you," Kit Said Sadly, and Coughed. "Quigley Managed to Reach the Self-Sustaining Hot Air Mobile Home, Just as I Hoped He Would, and Helping His Siblings and Hector Catch the Treacherous Eagles in an Enormous Net, while I met Captain Widdershins and his stepchildren." Then there's Quigley's difficult move to self-sustaining hot air mobile home. How did he do it? We don't know... But in the world of asoue amazing things are possible. But after that Kit claims that Captain W was already with his stepchildren. This contradicts Lemony's claim that Fernald was the enemy who had led the eagles to the self-sustaining hot air mobile home. So if Lemony isn't lying, (and I don't see any reason for Lemony to lie about these details when he could have just omitted it) Kit is lying. Fernald wouldn't have stolen the Carmelita along with Fiona, then gone to the self -sustaining hot air mobile home, used the eagles to attack them, then left the eagles there, returned to the submarine, met Captain W, regretted it, found Kit and then abandoned the Carmelita and then went along with Kit to help to the Quagmires. I mean... Is this possible? Yes. But this is very unlikely. Especially since Kit claimed to have been attacked. Did Kit Snicket have reason to lie? I believe so. The reason is that her hypocrisy had been exposed. When she spoke out against the mutiny, two islanders had shown the Baudelaires that she herself was also a violent woman. Now she needed to invent a story to preserve her image. In fact, even if she died there that day, she certainly wanted the Baudelaires to tell her daughter good stories about Kit Snicket. In other words, Kit wanted the Baudelaires to portray her from the best angle. So Kit Snicket lied. She denied having been attacked and taken part in a match against Fernald. If there's any truth to Kit's story, I think it's more likely that Submarine Q detected Submarine C via sonar. (After all, we saw in TGG that this is quite possible). Submarine C attacked Submarine Q. (Submarine C has tentacles that can be used as weapons at short ranges, as we saw in TGG). Kit hurt her feet in this attack, as she claimed to have happened. Fernald was on Submarine C along with Fiona. And the eagles were nearby causing problems for the self-sustaining hot air mobile home, which was right above. Then yes, the house fell on them. Then things can make sense. Both submarine C and submarine Q were hit. And then Fernald and Fiona were seen by Kit for the first time, in the water. I hope several kids also got off the C-sub in time, and Kit didn't mention them to avoid needing to give details about the fight she had with C-sub. "From the depths of the sea a mysterious figure approaching—almost like a question mark, rising out of the water." As we saw in TGG, this question-mark entity had been behind Submarine C for a long time. It was submarine C that attracted her.  An important note: I am not saying that this was Daniel Handler's intention. He probably just got confused by generating these contradictions. I am saying that, given what is written, I think this is the best explanation. "All I heard," she said, "was one of the Quagmires calling Violet's name." That phrase always made me dream. Now I understand that DH's goal was probably to somehow strengthen the love triangle between Ducan, Violet and Quigley. But he did it at such an awkward moment that it made me imagine other, more interesting things. And do you know? I still have a right to imagine. In my headcanon, one of the Quagmires saw a woman inside looking like Violet. And he got confused, thinking she was the girl. And so he asks out loud, "Violet?" to which Kit interpreted that he was screaming for Violet. And that's my big plot Twist from asoue. Beatrice was alive all along, and not even Lemony Snicket knows it. That might not be true, but for me it's the perfect ending. Chapter 13, on the other hand, goes against my selfish desires. It's a chapter devoted to accepting death, and my headcanon is the exact opposite of that. The Baudelaires and Kit mourn the death of the people they loved. And they cry a lot more than all the previous descriptions. I think Daniel Handler abandoned all ideas about the possibility that one of the Baudelaire parents could have survived, although he honestly thought about it at some point. But as I've already explained, Headcanon are valid when the author decides to let the story have a life of its own. But I have to recognize that the story is better if you just accept how the story looks. Death is surprisingly simple. So I don't think the great unknown represents death. I think the great unknown represents the open ending of asoue and uncertainty about the fate of some characters. In the end, it doesn't matter whether the Baudelaires' parents survived or not. The fact is, they never met again in recorded history. Just like they've never met the Quagmires again. All these characters are in the great unknown. And like the publication of the end, the Baudelaires themselves are symbolically in the great unknown, as it doesn't matter whether or not they survived their departure from the island: in the end we won't have access to new official adventures about them. But the beauty of the unknown is that it stimulates the imagination. And it's interesting that in my imagination, Beatrice was already inside the great unknown when one of the Quagmires saw her. So, in my own Headcanon, Beatrice's fate is uncertain. As much as I want to escape from allegories to interpret asoue, the allegory is present even though the entity in the form of a question mark is a physical entity: the name given to the entity and its shape make it a walking allegory, just like the ants are a walking allegory for organization and work. We keep thinking: if it was God who created animals like these, would he want to teach us a lesson? And if Daniel Handler is the god of asoue, did he want to teach a lesson with the question-mark entity? I think the answer is yes in both cases. So, in a universe created by someone's creativity, entities can be both physical entities and allegories at the same time. So, I think that's what TGU is. And I don't see any more problems with that. It is an interesting fact to note that Kit believed her both brothers were dead. In LSTUA we notice that Kit was trying to exonerate Lemony of the Baudelaire arson charge, even though she knew he might already be dead, which may indicate that she believed Lemony could have died in the fire itself. Kit claims that the Baudelaire family and the Snicket family needed to stay away from each other, not just Lemony and Beatrice needed to stay away from each other. These mysterious motives must surely have been detailed in the letter Beatrice wrote to Lemony.  So I don't think the wedding was canceled because Beatrice fell in love with someone else.  I don't think the wedding was definitely canceled because they were life-threatening.  I think there are organizational reasons for the Snickets and the Baudelaires to keep away from each other. Now the scene of Olaf's death. I have to say: what an epic scene! Whether it was Olaf who killed Beatrice and Bertrand we will never know for sure, but he never admitted it even when he believed he would die. He didn't seem to be willing to hide facts at the time. He seemed to me to list the things he managed to do. And Olaf always liked to brag about his murders. So for me the fire was accidental. Oalf bit the apple in order to recover from the MM fungus. He, like Kit and Ish, apparently knew that apples cure the disease caused by the fungus. He at first refused. Had he accepted death? I think so. Now: What was the relationship between Kit and Olaf? Everything indicates that it had been an old relationship. Something like a first love. Olaf did not apologize. He didn't think he was wrong. He wasn't sorry for his villainy. Kit survived for more than an hour, I am sure of it, before Beatrice could be born. A mother's willpower is really impressive. This excerpt below is for me one of the most important: "The Baudelaires would sit together in the two large reading chairs and take turns reading out loud from the book their parents had left behind, and sometimes they would flip to the back of the book, and add a few lines to the history themselves. reading and writing, the siblings found many answers for which they had been looking, although each answer, of course, only brought forth another mystery, as there were many details of the Baudelaires' lives that seemed like a strange, unreadable shape of some great unknown." This is clear proof that the Baudelaires left their own history on the island. Not only did Klaus write about it, but all three Baudelaires did, including Sunny who must have had enough time to learn to write. And Lemony knows they wrote it. I can only conclude that Lemony knows what they wrote, and it is on this basis that Lemony makes a narrative from the Baudelaires' point of view, even including an exact record of what they thought and talked privately. Another evidence that Lemony read this book is seen in the following excerpt: "As the night grew later the ould drop off to sleep, just as their parents did, in the chairs in the secret space beneath the roots of the bitter apple tree." Lemony knew details of what had happened to the Baudelaires' parents, which evidently happened when they were on the island. They themselves had written these events in the same book. Now, regarding the final section of the chapter: "In many ways, the lives of the Baudelaire orphans that year is not unlike my own, now that I have concluded my investigation. Like Violet, like Klaus, and like Sunny, I visit certain grave, and often spend my mornings standing on a brae, staring out at the same sea. It is not the whole story, of course, but it is enough. Under the circumstances, it is the best for which you can hope." I think it's pretty clear that Lemony wrote this passage while he was on the island. Lemony was visiting the same graves as he waited for an opportunity to leave the island. I will still read TBL again. So I know that Lemony wrote the letter to the editor of TBL after he learned of Beatrice Jr.'s existence. After he learned of her existence, Lemony searched for the items cited in TBL. So after that he went to the island and finished writing TE on the island. As I said, it is very likely that at this time the island was already inhabited by very nice people who did not allow apples to be removed from the island.