#dotrc

[1000dactyls]

the hot wax scene in dotrc still haunts me bro. like what was that for. jia huan what was that FOR

[stupidiocy-somewhere-else]

Hong Lu: The Vessel Theory

(disclaimer; true to form, long as shit)

Yep. I’m back. This is happening.

I just wanna say first and foremost, I have to give the MOTHER of all shoutouts to Netz (@beanie0bird) for both helping with the theory as a whole and hearing me out throughout its gradual development. He's my Hong Lu expert and I absolutely would not have gotten here without him. ily bestie 🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂 /p

I should also probably shout out one @lu-is-not-ok, their own Hong Lu theories were a pretty big inspiration for this one and I encourage y’all to check out their posts, they go way more in-depth than I think I’ll ever be capable of lol

OK, theory time. The Vessel Theory at its core is that Hong Lu is, in actuality, some kind of body double or clone of either his original Jia Baoyu 1.0 body, but with 1.0's trademark Jade incorporated into his eye. The idea was essentially brought around so the Jia family could keep their Most Specialest Lil Boy™️ around for forever, and every time a Baoyu 1.0 dies, they make another vessel for his Jade, take the Jade out, put it back in the new vessel, and act like nothing ever happened because they're rich and rich people can just get away with shit like that. My guess as to what Xichun and Wei are doing out and about is that the method used to bring Hong Lu into the world is faulty in some way, which would explain why it goes dim in C7, that's probably a hardware bug of sorts. Either that, or maybe Baoyu 1.0 is starting to deteriorate himself after so many body replacements. It also explains why Hermann roped Jia Huan into her endeavors; the Human Dough from Canto 6 definitely shows Hermann's interest in tampering with the boundaries of mortality in some sense.

The catch is, though, Baoyu 1.0 – his consciousness trapped in the Jade, at least – is still aware of all of this, even though he can't control the bodies he gets inserted into; though I can imagine his vessels can at least feel his presence or thoughts in some quantifiable shape or form. Explains that little "am I the dreamer" monologue from Hong Lu, and why the name of his Canto in other languages can be translated as "All I can do is watch it"; that's all Baoyu 1.0 can do while his consciousness is stuck in the Jade.

Speaking of which, Hong Lu, when he's starting out as the new Baoyu 1.0 vessel, isn't really adjusting super well to the expectations of being the new prodigal son, not to mention the abusive siblings, but Granny's a little nicer to him and reckons "Ah he probably needs to get to know his surroundings a little bit first, tell ya what sonny, you go out and see the world then come back and we'll see how you fare then" and sends the lad on his way. He bumps into Faust at some point. The rest is history. At least, I *think* it's his grandma who gives him the whole sightseeing mission; could be wrong.

Now then, as for what I think this all means for Hong Lu is going, Netz and I had some hiccups piecing this together, I don't think either of us have a concrete grip on the overarching theme of the book ourselves. My prevailing theory is that because the book itself ends with Jia Baoyu 1.0 becoming a monk and isolating himself, and OUR Baoyu 1.0 is already doing that to some degree in the Jade, Hong Lu's arc will be coming more out of his shell and opening up to the Sinners more about his emotions and opinions. He stops living in a dream world where he doesn't have to worry about anything, and can now utilize his experiences in The City to live life beyond the boundaries of what his family wants for him. I also really hope he pushes back against his abusers some, just to bring it all home. Maybe we get the actual Baoyu 1.0 out of his Jade and he takes over for Hong Lu? Maybe Hong Lu has to move on without Baoyu 1.0? Guess we'll just have to find out.

Again, I can't say I have a whole lot of evidence from, say, in-game dialogue or cross-referencing DOTRC to back me up, but then again, I have a Hong Lu expert on speed dial, it's not like I *can't* find anything.

What I *DO* have, however, is EGOs.

Starting with the big one; Land Of Illusion. My hypothesis is that the EGO art is a hyperbolic depiction of Baoyu 1.0 languishing in the Jade, with the rest of the world lying just outside with him now unable to affect it in any way. It also doesn't help that the walls of the room pictured are red; he's literally trapped in a Red Chamber. That's his dream world in the book supposedly; Baoyu 1.0's retreating to his happy place to escape the pressure of always having to be the Most Specialest Jia Ever:tm:. Five Gloom for wallowing in his melancholic solitude, and a Sloth on the side for willfully ignoring his forced responsibilities.

Either that, or it could be depicting Baoyu 1.0 at some point during his FIRST life, before all the body double shenanigans.

The rest of these will be shorter, I promise.

I've seen analyses for Ambling Pearl that describe the Abno as representing "a place made by you and for you," so there's a dead-on hint right there. Can't say I have much else, but at the very least I like how a common theme with the Abno is that it often just gets bored and walks away if you don't directly do anything to it. More on that in a second.

Netz helped me out with Soda; it's escapism for one, and apparently in LobCorp, Wellcheers rewards you for getting good research results on it. That definitely lines up with having to maintain the prodigal son image, at least to me.

Dimension Shredder represents a lot of things, but chief among them to me is a feeling of being lost. It's a little vague, sure, but I can definitely see Baoyu 1.0 not knowing what to do with his life given how he's not in control of it anymore. That, and Hong Lu was *literally* sent to wander around The City to get more used to it. Netz also tells me it represents not being able to keep up a facade, which DEFINITELY scans, although I couldn't tell you how the Abno represents that lol.

Roseate Desire — Rosie, as Netz and I call it — represents Baoyu 1.0's repressed and locked-away emotions, especially given that his mouth is tied up in the EGO art.

Lasso is… fairly loose, all things considered, though I do think there are some ties specifically to the apple from Rose Hunter's encounter. I'm sure we all know what it's implied that apple will become later, and Rose Hunter is actively enforcing that prophecy. An aspect of the EGO is being willing to let bad things happen so long as you feel it's what is best. Granted, in Baoyu 1.0's case, him letting the siblings treat his vessels like shit is beyond his volition, but a clue's a clue. Plus, if nothing else, we can always tie it back to Hong Lu and how nonchalant he seems to be regarding his family and the abuse they put him through in the past.

Lastly there's my personal favorite, Frog Lu (AKA Cavernous Wailing). There's… a lot, lmao.

One: Disobedience. I mean, I reckon getting sent off by your gramgram might go against the family grain some if they had no idea about it. That, and as we've established, Baoyu 1.0 is getting a little tired of the pressure to be perfect all the time.

Two: Obeying the wishes of family after said disobedience. This one I'm a tiny bit fuzzier on, but you could say that Baoyu 1.0 still does feel love for his family, or at least his elders, despite all he's been through, the hangup is he wants to express it in his own way without being forced into it.

Three: Wanting space to tackle your emotions yourself. This is where I was going with that thing about Ambling Pearl wandering off. Leave it alone, it leaves you alone. Let the toad cry, and you get an EGO gift. Baoyu 1.0 stays in the Jade and is thus the only person who can actually grapple with his feelings. Hell, he gets sent out into The City *alone* in an attempt to better his understanding. This man just wants a safe space to cry, goddamn it.

I’ll definitely be developing this further along as we go through the next two Intervallos.

[motivation-ga-shinderu]

"the person you love isn't real and never was. and even if they were, they've already changed so much since then that you can't love them anymore" -my oomf eve who said this about subkit. here's another relevant reddit comment too

[huaqinger]

🔮🚬 log #11

[staryarn]

Can't wait for ryoshu's chapter next year (?) and for my reading of hell screen (creepypasta wiki edition) to come in handy

[voidfragments]

ahh what the hell. hong lu opinion tierlist. as you can see there is not much hate in their heart

[lu-is-not-ok]

How it feels to be T minus six months away from being thrown into The Chamber which is awfully Red.

Anyway, I'm going to take this opportunity to make some Canto 8 predictions before the Roadmap drops for fun.

Now, these are a mix of theories that have been brewing within me since the game's launch and some stuff that hit me extremely recently. I'm going to try to keep the most general/sane predictions at the front while the more specific/deranged takes are gonna stay at the bottom.

Enjoy.

(And just in case anyone is curious, yes, I will be making a Canto 8 bingo board after we're done with this Season's Intervallos.)

Canto 8 Name Predictions:

The Disillusioned / The Disenchanted (Reference to either Land of Illusion or the fairy Disenchantment from DOTRC)

The Indebted (Reference to the Debt of Tears from DOTRC)

The Cycle Continuing (Matching the Canto 7 format of misleading you into thinking it's a description of the plot when it's actually describing the Sinner as well - Sancho is trying to end the dream, she's the Dream Ending Sinner)

All The Other Predictions:

The lesson Hong Lu will have to learn is to stand up for himself against his Family.

As the Saplings of Light seem to be happening in reverse Ruina order, Hong Lu would end up being assigned Chesed. Thus far, every Sinner tied to a Sapling of Light had to learn the same lesson as the counterpart Sephirah - Heathcliff had to learn to move on from his past like Hokma, while Donqui had to learn to have hope in the future like Binah.

Chesed's arc revolved around him learning that he needs to stop lying to himself and others, and that simply following authority only contributes to perpetuating the harm they cause, so his resolution has him stand up to that authority and try to rebel. I expect Hong Lu to have to go through something similar in his Canto.

Hong Lu will Distort.

Did you really think I would forget that foreshadowing from all the way back in Hell's Chicken?

Hong Lu will be the key to the Immortality of the Mind his elders are seeking.

This would tie him directly to the theme of resurrection that him being the Jade implies, plus it would be a direct reason as to why his Family is actively looking for him - they need him for their own goals.

There will be at least One cannibal in the Jia Family.

No I am not letting go of that Canto 2 line about bitten off fingers.

The Land of Illusion will be revealed to be where one of (if not more) of the Rivers is.

DOTRC potrays the Land of Illusion as a place with notable supernatural Rivers + thematic cohesion between Land of Illusion and Hades as forms of "afterlife" (we already know one of the Rivers is named after a River of Hades).

Hong Lu will be revealed to be both Jia Baoyu and Lin Daiyu, not in a "they merged the two characters into one for the sake of adaptation" way, but in a "this character is composed of two characters in-universe" way.

The framing and timing of the reveal of Hong Lu's name being Baoyu feels incredibly suspicious to me, to the point it actively makes me doubt that's all there is to his true identity. Plus there are multiple things about his E.G.O.s and certain writing choices that can't be explained with him Just being Baoyu.

[hongluboobs]

keep forgetting to post this, but here it is! a lightly categorized diagram of every mention Hong Lu makes of his family :3c

some things to keep in mind:

i cant check walpurgis text rn. i didn't catch any family mentions on my read through but it was also late at night so i may have missed something

this is a completely unfiltered list of EVERY family-mentioning line. not all of this is something big or revolutionary, if I was just grabbing notable lines I'd probably leave some out but I wanted to be comprehensive

the goal here was more just pure text than analysis, but filling it out sparked a lot of analysis for me

i originally made this because I had to answer a lot of questions about Hong Lu's family tree on here. and then I forgot to post it (whoops) but its a good reference to have for the future. Hong Lu's family isn't gonna get any less complex (gestures at the book)

non dotrc readers just know we know a lot but also next to nothing about Hong Lu's family even with all this info. we dont even know what they're doing with lin dai-yu or xue bao-chai and that's really scary. project moon i kneel

[azoosepted]

Canto VII is peak fr fr (Canto VIII will probably make me burst into flames)

Oh canto viii is going to actually kill me I think.

just from the MASSIVE foreshadowing that we’ve had from the intervallos and Canto VII (HONG LU IS BAO YU CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) as well as select lines from Canto VI (“[Butlers] are the most loyal people I know.” Hong Lu I see you. You’re talking about Aroma aren’t you. I see you . Don’t think I’m not watching you.) as well as HI JIA XICHUN HIIIIIII!!! canto viii has been set up A LOT. And now that I’ve read DotRC/SotS, the book that Hong Lu is based off of,

all i have to say is

Oh Boy. Time For The Parental Abuse And Dysfunctional Family.

one thing I do wonder though, is how are they going to fit every single character from the book into the Canto? They probably won’t, but even then, which ones will get to show up? In my copy there were SIX FULL PAGES DEDICATED TO JUST CHARACTER NAMES. SIX. FULL. PAGES. I’m not even kidding.

all in all I’m so normal about Canto VII and even Normaler about Canto VIII

[stairswell]

tbh creature hong lu yippee

i read a good chunk of dotrc since i have the 5 volume set and now im now terrified of canto 8 lmao...

anyway it inspired me to draw this beautiful creature.

it's based off the little tbh cookie that got all swollen when it was baked... overstimulated tbh cookie my beloved skrunkly...

[1000dactyls]

pbbblbbbtlblhtttbbbbtt . here is how black silence ID outis can still win + outish shotgunning with that coworker I hate + dotrc sillies ^o^ I like to think as soulmates, daiyu and hong lu mirror each other in every which way, but hong lu is also an amalgamation of everyone who has loved him and so his green ribbon is from qin zhong (before he passed)

[toskarin]

your posts gain a certain texture knowing you're a red chamber girl. it's like a visual novel without the pictures

DotRC is one of those books I'll always tell anyone interested in writing to read, and to read as many versions of it as possible for that matter. a lot of classic chinese novels display characteristics of what we'd consider "postmodernism" despite their age, which cleanly illustrates two VERY important concepts to internalise

postmodernism is an inherently eurocentric movement and is not a useful lens through which to analyse the works which lay outside of western canon

hundreds of years ago, there were guys who were smarter than you. you've gotta respect them

which is all to say, yeah, it's a visual novel without the pictures (novel)

[motivation-ga-shinderu]

"Now listen to me carefully: predestined attachments of the human heart are all of them mere illusion, they are obstacles blocking our spiritual path. Ponder deeply on what you have experienced. I shall explain it to you further when we meet again."

something something semi related dotrc quote, this is more a c8 prediction. on everyone's souls hong lu will distort. monk carmen will be real. listen to ponkotsu distorker💥

[bleedstatus]

reading older chinese books is so hard at first because they love to talk about boring things for the first few chapters… but jttw did this and i still read most of it and thought it was fire so hopefully dotrc does not disappoint

[staryarn]

curious what you mean by don quixote, hong lu, and ryoushuu's promos? I vaguely remember them and I definitely think there's some elements that. Need to be talked about, but I don't want to miscontrue what you're trying to say about them.

To preface this it's entirely like my own theories and while there definitely could be foreshadowing (in sinclairs he's vaguing demian and Ishmael mentions 'if that bastards really dead than I have nothing left to chase after' (summarizing it) ). This is all a theory a ga-

I'm just very intrested in Don's because of how she reacts in it. On the actual limbus company site she has delusions of grandeur in hers (under particulars) and I really think that we'll eventually see how shee sees the city and the justice she wants vs how the city actually functions

For Hong Lu and Ryoshu they escape me both because I haven't read their source materials and because (moreso with hong lu) they're hiding themselves (ryoshu has her shure nice to meet you pun at the end of her promo vs Ishmael having something lore related in hers)

I can guess more about Ryōshū due to knowing the general plot of hell screen but can't say a lot on Hong Lu due to not fully getting tye plot of Dotrc (that and due to reading leviathan I can at least guess her beef with the fingers and how she sees art)

(For other sinners context rodion talks about wishing to undo things as easily as you can earn back lost money and how she just wanted everyone to feel some warmth, and outis talks about her oddest and how despite needing to go back she hasn't been able to take one step)

[voidfragments]

i'm not gonna officially incorporate this in my portrayal or even put it in my hc tag unless we get some info that makes me feel more confident in this theory but like, man, i think a lot about lin daiyu's role in hong lu's story. why does he seem to take inspiration from her as much as from jia baoyu, if not more? why doesn't he ever mention or even allude to her? hell, even the mismatched colors of his eyes seem to be a reference to her name. i can't help but wonder... do their eyes match? did they always match? is daiyu even around anymore? is "hong lu" some kind of fucked up chimera of jia baoyu and lin daiyu?