#dotrc

[stupidiocy-somewhere-else]

Hong Lu: The Vessel Theory

(disclaimer; true to form, long as shit)

Yep. I’m back. This is happening.

I just wanna say first and foremost, I have to give the MOTHER of all shoutouts to Netz (@beanie0bird) for both helping with the theory as a whole and hearing me out throughout its gradual development. He's my Hong Lu expert and I absolutely would not have gotten here without him. ily bestie 🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂 /p

I should also probably shout out one @lu-is-not-ok, their own Hong Lu theories were a pretty big inspiration for this one and I encourage y’all to check out their posts, they go way more in-depth than I think I’ll ever be capable of lol

OK, theory time. The Vessel Theory at its core is that Hong Lu is, in actuality, some kind of body double or clone of either his original Jia Baoyu 1.0 body, but with 1.0's trademark Jade incorporated into his eye. The idea was essentially brought around so the Jia family could keep their Most Specialest Lil Boy™️ around for forever, and every time a Baoyu 1.0 dies, they make another vessel for his Jade, take the Jade out, put it back in the new vessel, and act like nothing ever happened because they're rich and rich people can just get away with shit like that. My guess as to what Xichun and Wei are doing out and about is that the method used to bring Hong Lu into the world is faulty in some way, which would explain why it goes dim in C7, that's probably a hardware bug of sorts. Either that, or maybe Baoyu 1.0 is starting to deteriorate himself after so many body replacements. It also explains why Hermann roped Jia Huan into her endeavors; the Human Dough from Canto 6 definitely shows Hermann's interest in tampering with the boundaries of mortality in some sense.

The catch is, though, Baoyu 1.0 – his consciousness trapped in the Jade, at least – is still aware of all of this, even though he can't control the bodies he gets inserted into; though I can imagine his vessels can at least feel his presence or thoughts in some quantifiable shape or form. Explains that little "am I the dreamer" monologue from Hong Lu, and why the name of his Canto in other languages can be translated as "All I can do is watch it"; that's all Baoyu 1.0 can do while his consciousness is stuck in the Jade.

Speaking of which, Hong Lu, when he's starting out as the new Baoyu 1.0 vessel, isn't really adjusting super well to the expectations of being the new prodigal son, not to mention the abusive siblings, but Granny's a little nicer to him and reckons "Ah he probably needs to get to know his surroundings a little bit first, tell ya what sonny, you go out and see the world then come back and we'll see how you fare then" and sends the lad on his way. He bumps into Faust at some point. The rest is history. At least, I *think* it's his grandma who gives him the whole sightseeing mission; could be wrong.

Now then, as for what I think this all means for Hong Lu is going, Netz and I had some hiccups piecing this together, I don't think either of us have a concrete grip on the overarching theme of the book ourselves. My prevailing theory is that because the book itself ends with Jia Baoyu 1.0 becoming a monk and isolating himself, and OUR Baoyu 1.0 is already doing that to some degree in the Jade, Hong Lu's arc will be coming more out of his shell and opening up to the Sinners more about his emotions and opinions. He stops living in a dream world where he doesn't have to worry about anything, and can now utilize his experiences in The City to live life beyond the boundaries of what his family wants for him. I also really hope he pushes back against his abusers some, just to bring it all home. Maybe we get the actual Baoyu 1.0 out of his Jade and he takes over for Hong Lu? Maybe Hong Lu has to move on without Baoyu 1.0? Guess we'll just have to find out.

Again, I can't say I have a whole lot of evidence from, say, in-game dialogue or cross-referencing DOTRC to back me up, but then again, I have a Hong Lu expert on speed dial, it's not like I *can't* find anything.

What I *DO* have, however, is EGOs.

Starting with the big one; Land Of Illusion. My hypothesis is that the EGO art is a hyperbolic depiction of Baoyu 1.0 languishing in the Jade, with the rest of the world lying just outside with him now unable to affect it in any way. It also doesn't help that the walls of the room pictured are red; he's literally trapped in a Red Chamber. That's his dream world in the book supposedly; Baoyu 1.0's retreating to his happy place to escape the pressure of always having to be the Most Specialest Jia Ever:tm:. Five Gloom for wallowing in his melancholic solitude, and a Sloth on the side for willfully ignoring his forced responsibilities.

Either that, or it could be depicting Baoyu 1.0 at some point during his FIRST life, before all the body double shenanigans.

The rest of these will be shorter, I promise.

I've seen analyses for Ambling Pearl that describe the Abno as representing "a place made by you and for you," so there's a dead-on hint right there. Can't say I have much else, but at the very least I like how a common theme with the Abno is that it often just gets bored and walks away if you don't directly do anything to it. More on that in a second.

Netz helped me out with Soda; it's escapism for one, and apparently in LobCorp, Wellcheers rewards you for getting good research results on it. That definitely lines up with having to maintain the prodigal son image, at least to me.

Dimension Shredder represents a lot of things, but chief among them to me is a feeling of being lost. It's a little vague, sure, but I can definitely see Baoyu 1.0 not knowing what to do with his life given how he's not in control of it anymore. That, and Hong Lu was *literally* sent to wander around The City to get more used to it. Netz also tells me it represents not being able to keep up a facade, which DEFINITELY scans, although I couldn't tell you how the Abno represents that lol.

Roseate Desire — Rosie, as Netz and I call it — represents Baoyu 1.0's repressed and locked-away emotions, especially given that his mouth is tied up in the EGO art.

Lasso is… fairly loose, all things considered, though I do think there are some ties specifically to the apple from Rose Hunter's encounter. I'm sure we all know what it's implied that apple will become later, and Rose Hunter is actively enforcing that prophecy. An aspect of the EGO is being willing to let bad things happen so long as you feel it's what is best. Granted, in Baoyu 1.0's case, him letting the siblings treat his vessels like shit is beyond his volition, but a clue's a clue. Plus, if nothing else, we can always tie it back to Hong Lu and how nonchalant he seems to be regarding his family and the abuse they put him through in the past.

Lastly there's my personal favorite, Frog Lu (AKA Cavernous Wailing). There's… a lot, lmao.

One: Disobedience. I mean, I reckon getting sent off by your gramgram might go against the family grain some if they had no idea about it. That, and as we've established, Baoyu 1.0 is getting a little tired of the pressure to be perfect all the time.

Two: Obeying the wishes of family after said disobedience. This one I'm a tiny bit fuzzier on, but you could say that Baoyu 1.0 still does feel love for his family, or at least his elders, despite all he's been through, the hangup is he wants to express it in his own way without being forced into it.

Three: Wanting space to tackle your emotions yourself. This is where I was going with that thing about Ambling Pearl wandering off. Leave it alone, it leaves you alone. Let the toad cry, and you get an EGO gift. Baoyu 1.0 stays in the Jade and is thus the only person who can actually grapple with his feelings. Hell, he gets sent out into The City *alone* in an attempt to better his understanding. This man just wants a safe space to cry, goddamn it.

I’ll definitely be developing this further along as we go through the next two Intervallos.

[1000dactyls]

the hot wax scene in dotrc still haunts me bro. like what was that for. jia huan what was that FOR

[dailyhongloumeng]

day 2

lin daiyu

[motivation-ga-shinderu]

"the person you love isn't real and never was. and even if they were, they've already changed so much since then that you can't love them anymore" -my oomf eve who said this about subkit. here's another relevant reddit comment too

[huaqinger]

🔮🚬 log #11

[acespade1232]

Dream of the red chamber reading chapter 2:

<- Chapter 1 | Chapter 3 (coming soon) ->

Summary:

There are messengers from the magistrate who pick up the father in law. When he comes back he says that Jia Yu-cun is the new magistrate and he wanted to invite Zhen but he ran away from home like a cat when you leave the door open so he had the father in law come instead.

Another messenger came with a bunch of stuff on behalf of Yu-cun and asked if he could have Lucky as his second wife (he doesn't ask Lucky is she wants to marry him, he only requests that the father in law asks Mrs. Zhen if he could marry her) because she is the maid he locked eyes with once for a couple second two years ago and then she was brought to him.

Yu-cun was later fired because he subverted justice for his own gains a couple times and went back home with his family. There he met Lin ru-hai, his wife who was another Jia and their daughter Dai-yu who he began tutoring.

A year passed and the wife died and Dai-yu became sick so she had to take a break from tutoring.

Yu-cun was going for a walk when he found a temple called the temple of perfect knowledge where he saw an inscription he thought was profound. He decided to go to the inn where he met a friend.

The friend talked about something happening with the Jia family in the Rong-Guo and Ning-Guo mansions, a baby was born with a piece of jade in his mouth and when the baby was one it was more attracted to traditionally feminine things, he is now 10 and is very smart and mischievous. They also talk about the family history of the family which i won't recount here, all you need to know is that Jia Zhen is in charge of the Ning-Guo mansion and refuses to do his proper duties and his father went away as a taoist to become immortal.

Yu-cun then talked about moral philosophy for the next 10 god damn pages. He says there are some people who are really good and some who are really bad and children can sway either way. Also if a child loves women too much and are doted on too much they will never become responsible. Also there are 3 young girls in the Jia household, Ying-chun, Tan-chun, and Xi-chun. Then Yu-cun got up to leave, ending the chapter

Thoughts:

This chapter was not good like the last one, setting up the lore at the beginning was ok but after yu-cun sat down with his old friend it just got so wordy and boring, especially the part when he starts talking about people being moral and what not. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

Limbus character ranking (canto 7 spoilers ahead):

Xi-chun 10/5: she is literally already in the game

Bao-yu 100/5: Bao-yu us Hong Lu

Jia Jing: 5/5: Xi-chun mentions the elders searching for immortality and that's literally what Jing is doing

[bunsageprimaris]

Interesting that Dream of the Red Chamber is the book you used as an example.

I see you, Limbus fan.

i need someone to kidnap me and force me to learn languages i want to learn in their basement and also inject a mysterious substance into me once a week and force me to wear womens clothing that they personally picked out

[lu-is-not-ok]

two in one theory... i am listening very intently if you ever feel up to share it!!

Alright, so this is gonna be... as close to an Abridged explanation of the theory as I can make, because if I went off on everything about it I would end up writing a whole dissertation or five hour video essay script on this shit.

There are gonna be three main sections to this post - Hong Lu's Daiyuisms, Hong Lu's Themes of Identity and how that connects to the concept of Two in One, and the Daiyu-Baoyu theory itself.

Strap in folks.

Hong Lu's Daiyuisms

If you know anything about my theories in the earlier days of Limbus, you might know that I'm one of the very few people who was convinced Hong Lu is actually Daiyu, due to some evidence I found personally compelling. This has not changed, as we've only gotten just as much extra evidence to this as we have to him being Baoyu. So let me just speedrun through some of these points.

The Fucking Jade Eye

Ok hear me out. This is maybe the least important piece of evidence but I can never stop thinking about it. Hong Lu's jade eye? Not actually fully blue! If you look closely on most of his sprites, you can see that he actually has sectoral heterochromia, meaning his jade eye is both blue and black.

Daiyu's name, quite literally, translates to blue-black jade.

Now, you could claim that this is merely meant to be an easter egg reference to her, but... is that really Project Moon's style? After all, when people speculated on Don Quixote being Sancho or a Bloodfiend partially based on her appearance all the way back since near launch, they turned out to be right.

Hong Lu's Father

As of now, there is only one instance of Hong Lu referencing his Father in Limbus, and it's a voiceline from his Base Identity:

Now, if you know anything about DOTRC, this should already be raising some flags, because if Hong Lu was just Baoyu, he would not fucking talk like that about his Father.

In the book, Baoyu is consistently shown to be afraid of his Father, for a good reason mind you, as he's his main abuser. Baoyu would not be looking forward to introducing his friends to that man.

Even if Hong Lu was trying to downplay the abuse he's recieved, this would still not fit his pattern of behavior. When topics that genuinely bother Hong Lu come up, such as what could make him distort or how rich people would enjoy gifts made of humans, he immediately pivots and tries to avoid the topic at all cost. He would not bring up his main abuser in such a lighthearted manner, he would avoid bringing him up at all cost.

However, there is a character in DOTRC which does in fact have a more positive relationship to her Father, and would likely be the one with an opinion such as that - Daiyu. Daiyu loves her Father, and when he dies she completely disappears from the story for a bit to attend his funeral. If there was anyone who would be excited to introduce their friends to their Father, it'd be Daiyu.

Lasso Hong Lu's Corrosion

I made a whole seperate post about this, but I might as well mention it here as well for the sake of completion. The design choices made for Hong Lu which are missing for Faust are very, very Daiyu-coded.

For one, not only does Hong Lu completely turn into a flower, unlike Faust, his horse also gains a flower in its mouth. For those whose knowledge of DOTRC is zero to none, Daiyu is a reincarnation of a Flower given sentience due to being watered by the Jade. I don't think I have to be the one to connect the dots between those two pieces of info for you.

The second is how the halters become a noose for Hong Lu. This, too, is a very Daiyu thing - Rose Hunter as an Abnormality represents the inability to escape one's fate, and Daiyu's fate is to die - the Jia Family arranging a marriage between Baoyu and Baochai leads to Daiyu falling deathly ill, which in itself could be considered a part of her repaying her Debt of Tears - the debt she swore to repay to the Jade/Baoyu when she was still a Flower.

The hilarity of the fact that this E.G.O came out in the same update as Hong Lu being called Baoyu in-story is not lost on me.

Rose Sign Abnormality Log

The third Log for Rose Sign ends in a very peculiar way.

There's multiple ways one can tie Hong Lu's odd reluctance to talk about flowers and the petals. One is the obvious "he's being reminded of Daiyu because she was a Flower" connection, but there's another one.

One of the most commonly potrayed images of Daiyu relates to a scene in DOTRC where she buries fallen flower petals, weeping for and lamenting the mortality of the flowers and herself. Hong Lu's reaction here to his fellow Sinners being reduced to nothing but petals upon Rose Sign's death feels like a notable parallel to Daiyu's flower burial scene.

Like literally everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu

The title for this is a bit of an exaggeration, but at the same time. I'm serious. Kurokumo Hong Lu is perhaps the most Daiyu Identity out of all the Hong Lu Identities we have, and the way he is designed to stand out among them further makes me go insane.

Kurokumo Hong Lu's most defining trait is his attitude - he often complains about his position and how authority treats him, though he doesn't really act out against them in any major way outside of making snarky or sarcastic remarks.

This is, frankly, an extremely Daiyu thing to do. Daiyu is one of the few characters who audibly complains about her treatment in the household. For example she complains about not being given as many opportunities to show off her poetry skills as her male peers are, and she recognises how, when all the girls in the family are given flowers, she's the last one to recieve them and thus is stripped of the ability to pick, being only given the leftovers.

Then there's the whole. Everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu's visual design. Because once you realize just how Daiyu-like the Identity is, you realize just how weird he is compared to other Hong Lu Identities. I mean just look how he compares to his other Identities.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity with a blue tint to his hair in the combat sprite rather than the usual purple.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity whose hairtie is a ribbon rather than a jade ring (Liu Hong Lu technically has the ribbon in his post-uptie art, but he doesn't have it in his combat sprite so I'm not counting him).

He's the only Hong Lu Identity to not be smiling in his combat sprites.

And he's the only Hong Lu Identity (and one of only four Identities in the game) whose Idle sprite has its body facing away from the opponent rather than facing towards them.

All of those combine to make him stand out like a sore thumb in a Hong Lu Identity lineup in a way that makes it feel intentional, especially since he's also the only Hong Lu Identity with that kind of notable attitude towards authority. Other Hong Lu Identities are either obedient, don't express any opinion, or just straight up are the authority.

The Baoyu reveal is framed in a very weird way

This is, admittedly, less of a Daiyuism and more of a not-Baoyuism, but I thought it'd be important to mention nonetheless.

There are a lot of things about Canto 7's reveal of Hong Lu's name being Baoyu that are very strange, especially compared to how the Canto frames Don Quixote's own reveal of actually being Sancho.

For one, the timing itself - why is such an important piece of info being revealed so early? Again, compare to Donqui - she was revealed to be a Bloodfiend in the Intervallo right before Canto 7, and the Sancho reveal only came in the second half of the Canto.

For two, the framing - Donqui's reveals are treated as what they are, Major Reveals. The Baoyu reveal on the other hand happens in a single off-handed line, with nobody reacting to it in any way. Neither Hong Lu nor the other Sinners seem to hear it after all.

And mind you, it's not like Limbus is opposed to giving us important information in off-handed lines - far from it in fact. Project Moon loves shoving little bits of foreshadowing and reveals you don't realize are reveals until way later in these kinds of off-handed lines. But the way those lines are treated is still very different to how the Baoyu reveal is treated.

Usually, when there's foreshadowing in off-handed lines, it's usually either vague enough to be something a character could say regardless of context (see Yi Sang getting hung up on the Sedatives bit in Canto 2 or Ishmael's comment about Syndicates pretending to be Families foreshadowing her own history with the Middle via Queequeg) or something that is in the middle of a scene that distracts from what is actually being said (like Hong Lu's distortion foreshadowing being in the middle of an important infodump or most of everything in Canto 2 being surrounded by a comedic tone).

None of this is present for the Baoyu reveal. There's nothing to distract you from this information, as the scene is already focused on discussing Hong Lu, meaning you're already likely to be paying attention to what is being said about him. There's also no vagueness about it, there's no way you can brush it off since not only are Wei and Xichun newly introduced characters, but it's a whole ass clearcut namedrop.

The only way I can justify that reveal being there in the form it takes is that it in itself is the distraction. Think about it. Didn't I point it out earlier that this reveal came in the same update as the E.G.O with an extremely Daiyu-coded corrosion design? Wouldn't it make sense for that reveal to be there to lower your guard, make you think you resolved that mystery, only to later on reveal it wasn't the whole story after all?

Hong Lu's Themes of Identity

So this section is a bit more vague than the Daiyuism section, because Hong Lu is the type of guy to just Say Shit all the time. It's basically just. Anything that I find relevant to the idea of Hong Lu's Identity being more complex than him just being a random guy using a pseudonym, with some (but maybe not all) of them directly tying to the idea of Two in One.

"Which one is the real you?"

There are currently two seperate scenes where Hong Lu muses on the idea of someone's identity being in some way vague or obscured.

Is Dante the person or the clock? Is the dreamer the one in the dream or the one who wakes from it? Which you is the real you? Does it even matter if that you will flutter away in the end?

This idea of there being one true self. That even if there are two, there is only one of them that is actually you. Curious, right?

Face-changing dance

During the Canto 2 scene where everyone gives their reasons for whether or not they'd be a good pick for being the one to dance, Hong Lu says this.

Bian lian is a kind of dance literally translated as "face-changing". It involves rapid changes between various masks and make-up to represent different emotions or characters.

Now, it's no secret that Hong Lu is a great actor, as we see in Canto 4, and Canto 7 shows how the comparison to theatre and actors can be used to symbolize one's performance of identity, as it does for Sancho and her Don Quixote persona.

Mind you, this reveal comes in the same scene as Sinclair's dance invoking the image of a bonfire burning all through the night according to the Mariachis, a clear foreshadowing to Canto 3 and the Literal burning down of Sinclair's home.

Hong Lu knowing bian lian could be further foreshadowing to his own skills in deception, and how he too is a sort of actor, not unlike Don Quixote. On the other hand however, it could also be a more literal foreshadowing, that he (Baoyu) Quite Literally changed his face. We won't know until Canto 8, but it is an option you know.

The HamHamPangPang dish(es)

For those who don't know, here is a list of the Sinner-themed dishes that were available at HamHamPangPang.

Now, chances are, not all of them have deep meanings. I don't think there's much of a deep meaning to Heathcliff and Ishmael's dishes, I think PJM just legit don't know much about British/American cuisine so they just picked something recogniseable.

However, not all of them are meaningless picks either. Ryoshu, likely a mother, has a meal literally called "parent-and-child donburi". Don Quixote, a Bloodfiend, has a garlic-based dish. These were clearly done on purpose.

So, what does it say that Hong Lu's dish is actually two different dishes? That he's the only one whose dish is two different dishes? And it's not like the two are in some way inherently connected, since they're of completely different cuisines. Japchae is a Korean dish, not Chinese like the Mandarin rolls.

And just in case you weren't convinced that Hong Lu's choice of dishes is purposeful - another name for Mandarin rolls is flower buns, and one of the special occasions japchae is commonly served for is weddings. If you had read through the Daiyuisms section and somehow have no idea what the significance of that is, I don't know what to tell you.

The Daiyu-Baoyu Theory (finally)

So. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could still be Daiyu despite being revealed as Baoyu. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could be a Two in One deal, or that at the very least there's something more complex going on with his identity. But let's discuss the theory itself, how it would recontextualize certain things, and why I think it's an extremely fitting an thematically resonant direction for Hong Lu's Canto to go in.

The Theory

Here's what I speculate is going on.

Daiyu, just like in DOTRC, is someone who was taken in into the Jia Household rather than born in it, and who strongly connected with Baoyu upon meeting him. The two would end up forming a bond strong enough that they would be willing to die for one another (or, if they're in particularly argumentative moods, to kill themselves just to force the other to have to live a long life grieving over them - this is an actual argument they have in DOTRC and I pray to god this is adapted into Limbus because it's too fucking funny).

At some point, Baoyu either dies or is brought to near death, likely through the same circumstances as in DOTRC - being beaten by his Father. To save him, his memories and consciousness would be transferred to his eye, a process not dissimilar to the one Xichun brings up in Canto 7, and implanted into Daiyu's body, causing them to become a vessel for Baoyu. This would be how Hong Lu as he is now is created.

All of the above is the main basis for this theory. Everything else that I might speculate about, such as the exact nature of the two's relationship, Daiyu's more exact background and personality, how their pre-reincarnation lives could be adapted - all of those are things that are purely speculative and ones that I don't really expect to be actually fulfilled. The only bits that I am sure are likely to be true is what I laid out above.

So... what does it all mean for the future? I'm glad you asked!

The Recontextualization

Here's a collection of just a couple of things that Hong Lu has said or is depicted as that would be heavily recontextualized if this theory ends up being true.

Hong Lu surviving despite claiming he didn't fight back when his siblings first tried to kill him: With the context that he used to be two seperate people, the answer to how he survived is made very simple. Baoyu is the one who wasn't fighting back. Daiyu, however, could have still protected him in turn.

The red ribbon on Hong Lu's weapon: There is only one other Sinner who has a similar decoration on their weapon - Ryoshu, who also has a red ribbon on her sword, which could be easily connected to Yuzuki and her death. With the context of Hong Lu being Baoyu occupying Daiyu's body and thus effectively rendering their self non-existent, the red ribbon could be a parallel symbol - a symbol of Daiyu and their 'death'.

How Hong Lu treats his weapon in his base E.G.O: The way Hong Lu holds his weapon in the illustration is more like he's cradling another person. This could be a representation of how he feels about Daiyu's situation. Likewise, in the attack animation, he's not really attacking with the weapon itself, is he? He's simply using it to direct a ribbon (which in itself is missing in the illustration), the part that is actually the attack. If the weapon in the base E.G.O represents Daiyu, this could be a parallel to how Baoyu feels like he's merely directing Daiyu's body to attack, rather than being the one actually attacking.

The duality of Hong Lu IDs: There is a notable pattern among Hong Lu IDs, and that is the focus on his attitude to violence. When he's in a situation where he's obedient towards his Family, he's either uninterested in violence, bored of it, or otherwise given no other choice but to use it as a reprieve from boredom. However, when he's in a situation where he's disconnected from his Family or otherwise questioning the status quo, he's shown to not only be much more aggressive and violent, but to outright enjoy it. With the context of Hong Lu being composed of two people, this duality could represent each of his components - the obedient and violence-averse being more Baoyu-like, while the questioning and violence-favoring being more Daiyu-like.

So, there's a bunch of stuff that would be given new meaning under the premise of this theory being true. But now, what about the future? What would this theory mean for the themes and ending of Canto 8?

The Resolution

I believe this is how the Daiyu-Baoyu theory will affect Canto 8.

At some point, whether before or during the Canto, it will be revealed that Hong Lu is both Daiyu and Baoyu. There will be an attempt to seperate the two, perhaps to implant Baoyu into a more fitting, more Jia Family-approved Vessel. Perhaps because the 'arranged marriage' from DOTRC could be adapted into something more... let's say Fear and Hunger kind of marriage rather than traditional marriage.

This will leave Hong Lu to be returned to their state as Daiyu, who will be revealed to be a very different person to what the Sinners knew Hong Lu as. There is a non-zero chance that Daiyu will be unable to hear Dante or be revived by them due to the one who signed the contract being Baoyu, and so they could end up acting as an uncontrollable ally unit not unlike Xichun in Canto 7.

The climax would then be Daiyu and Baoyu reuniting and being unwilling to part with each other again, even for the sake of returning to being the fake persona that is Hong Lu, leading to a potential duo boss fight/distortion boss fight/duo distortion boss fight.

The ending would be the two of them deciding to embrace their new identity as Hong Lu and truly becoming one, discarding their pasts and the selves that had been forced on them by the Jia Family. This ending would have a twofold meaning regarding how it connects to the DOTRC adaptation.

One - it would be a direct parallel to the ending of DOTRC where Baoyu leaves to become a monk. By becoming Hong Lu and discaring his previous identities, he'd be leaving behind the earthly attachments inherent to being Baoyu and Daiyu and become spiritually whole.

Two - it would be a reflection of the major theme of DOTRC, that being "Truth becomes fiction when the fiction's true. Real becomes not-real when the unreal's real." Hong Lu, as a person, is a 'fake' persona used by the 'real' Baoyu and Daiyu. However, by discarding those two identities and deciding to just be Hong Lu, the fiction of his existence becomes the truth, while his former real selves become not real.

Conclusion?

I could honestly just keep going with this post, but I think I'm going to stop myself here before I'm forced to find out what tumblr's character limit on posts is. Believe me, I was trying to be brief, and still this post is. This fucking long.

I hope this explains why this theory has been the subject of my brainrot for the past however long, and why I feel like it's surprisingly plausible despite being as deranged as it is.

Godspeed and godbless, I have classes tomorrow and I'm spending my time on this.

[hongluboobs]

keep forgetting to post this, but here it is! a lightly categorized diagram of every mention Hong Lu makes of his family :3c

some things to keep in mind:

i cant check walpurgis text rn. i didn't catch any family mentions on my read through but it was also late at night so i may have missed something

this is a completely unfiltered list of EVERY family-mentioning line. not all of this is something big or revolutionary, if I was just grabbing notable lines I'd probably leave some out but I wanted to be comprehensive

the goal here was more just pure text than analysis, but filling it out sparked a lot of analysis for me

i originally made this because I had to answer a lot of questions about Hong Lu's family tree on here. and then I forgot to post it (whoops) but its a good reference to have for the future. Hong Lu's family isn't gonna get any less complex (gestures at the book)

non dotrc readers just know we know a lot but also next to nothing about Hong Lu's family even with all this info. we dont even know what they're doing with lin dai-yu or xue bao-chai and that's really scary. project moon i kneel

[stairswell]

tbh creature hong lu yippee

i read a good chunk of dotrc since i have the 5 volume set and now im now terrified of canto 8 lmao...

anyway it inspired me to draw this beautiful creature.

it's based off the little tbh cookie that got all swollen when it was baked... overstimulated tbh cookie my beloved skrunkly...

[canto8waitlist]

I think I need to either be genuinely put down or canto 8 has to release sooner because every day I feel like the mere existence of hong lu drives me more and more insane. I'm talking like feeling genuinely physically ill at certain implications for the canto, feeling a slight sense of superiority for actually having gotten thru dotrc, being in hell because I realized I'm in a drought right now until walp releases. actual hell right now I hate this fucking twinkle so much. genuinely life ruining

[1000dactyls]

pbbblbbbtlblhtttbbbbtt . here is how black silence ID outis can still win + outish shotgunning with that coworker I hate + dotrc sillies ^o^ I like to think as soulmates, daiyu and hong lu mirror each other in every which way, but hong lu is also an amalgamation of everyone who has loved him and so his green ribbon is from qin zhong (before he passed)

[dailyhongloumeng]

day 1

i wanted to do this for a while and now im also finally rereading dream of the red chamber so

[motivation-ga-shinderu]

"Now listen to me carefully: predestined attachments of the human heart are all of them mere illusion, they are obstacles blocking our spiritual path. Ponder deeply on what you have experienced. I shall explain it to you further when we meet again."

something something semi related dotrc quote, this is more a c8 prediction. on everyone's souls hong lu will distort. monk carmen will be real. listen to ponkotsu distorker💥

[bleedstatus]

reading older chinese books is so hard at first because they love to talk about boring things for the first few chapters… but jttw did this and i still read most of it and thought it was fire so hopefully dotrc does not disappoint

[acespade1232]

Dream of the red chamber reading chapter 1:

<- introduction | Chapter 2 ->

Overview:

So the goddess Nüwa, she makes a bunch if stones to rebuild the sky but one is left over and was magic, a taoist (Mysterioso) and a Buddhist (Impervioso) find him and mark him as special.

A bunch of time passes and another taoist (Vanitas) finds him and learned of the stones entire life as a human (after being brought to the realm of the mortals by Mysterioso and Impervioso) and that it wanted it's life to be published. Vanitas responds that the stone forgot put the date and that there isn't a moral so it's getting an F on it's writing homework.

The stone then proceeds to go off about how romance novels suck because they are very stereotypical and samey, and that they ruin the reputations of the deceased and that it's was better because it showed real people and all their flaws and that it hopes that people find an escape from the real world and Vanitas was owned so hard that he changed his name Brother Amor/the passionate monk and started to publish to book.

[This all happened in 8 1/2 pages btw]

So cutting away from all of that to something unrelated in Carnel lane is the couple Zhen Shi-yin and Feng-shi and their daughter Ling-Yian and everyone loved them.

Then Shi-yin dreams himself into the spirit world and he hears Mysterioso and Impervioso talking about how they are gonna put the magic stone with a batch of lovesick souls and they also mentioned the stone meeting the fairy Disenchantment and in her realm it also met the Crimson pearl flower and the rock watered the flower which caused her to become a girl and she became sad about not being able to water it back unless she became a human and cried on it throughout her whole life.

Then Disenchantment brought together a bunch of souls (including the Crimson pearl flower) and sent them to be humans and thats where the stone is being brought by the Taiost and Buddhist. They decided to go down to the realm of humans too to help people.

Then Shi-yin [bet you forgot he was here] and asked the pair about how karma works so he doesn't go to hell and thry respond that he just needs to remember them and he'll be fine and they also showed him the magic jade. Then they approach the archway to "the land of illusion."

Then Shi-yin woke up a Taoist and a Buddhist approached him and were like "your daughter will ruin your life and your wife's" then the two priests split up and then Jia Yucun came to the door asking if he was ok and Shi-yin invited him inside to hang out. They barely talk before Shi-yin has business he needs to take care of and leaves. While he is gone Yu-cun sees a woman outside and thinks she has a crush on him and then he left.

Then it was festival time and Yu-cun was making poems when Shi-yin hears and complements his poetry and invites him over and they got drunk and Jia kept doing more poems and Shi-yin gives him cash, silver, and clothes to go to the capital to get a high ranking position.

Ying Lian went out with the maid named calamity to see the lights when she got kidnapped. When calamity couldn't find her he ran away. The parents fell ill after not being able to find her, then the monk in the temple next to their house accidently set the entire town on fire.

The couple said "fuck this shit I'm out" and went to the countryside to become farmers but they sucked at it and became broke. They then went to live with her parents with only 2 maids. They gave the money they got from selling the land to the FIL when he stole half of it and gave them a shitty cottage in the middle of nowhere. Shi-yin met a taoist and he left his family to go wander eith him.

Mrs. Zhen tried to find him but couldn't so she embroidered with the two maids to make some money. Then an offical of the government came and she thought she recognized him but decided to go to bed when she overheard people talking about someone being wanted at a government office. This concludes chapter 1.

Thoughts:

I forgot how much shit happens every chapter. It felt like it just went on and on. I'm sure it's all gonna be relevant at some point or another, but it doesn't stop it from being a slog to get through. Some quotes I believe are gonna be important are: "Truth becomes fiction when the fiction’s true; Real becomes not-real where the unieal’s real." (This was written in the archway labeled land of illusion) and "Vanitas, starting off in the Void (which is Truth) came to the contemplation of Form (which is Illusion); and from Form engendered Passion; and by communicating Passion, entered again into Form; and from Form awoke to the Void (which is Truth)." Both of these feel like they are gonna be important themes or ideas later in the book.

Limbus thoughts:

So if you know limbus, then you probably remember hong lu's E.G.O being called "land of illusion" and hey would you look at that we get an archway in the spirit world with that written on it. Since it's literally the name of the E.G.O he starts with its safe to assume this will become important in his canto, I guarantee the land of illusion or some equivalent will show up, if it's gonna the spirit world like in the book it's hard to say but it will be important. I think it's also possible that hong lu either A. distort/manifest E.G.O (not just ego attacks like full-on ego like the red mist has) or B. he, in some way, is not human. We already know of non-human sentient creatures existing, the abnormalities being the most prevalent, of course, but we also know of giants and gnomes from Miracle in District 20.

Which characters I think will show up:

Mysterioso and Impervioso: 4/5 they are who bring the stone into the real world and are from the spirit world so it would make sense for them to show up but they aren't all that important to the Jia family so they may not

Crimson pearl flower 3.5/5: owes a debt of tears to the stone but until she gets more screentime this is all I can give her

Jia yu-cun 3/5: part of the Jia family, he's not super important in this chapter so there isn't much to go off of, he is part of the Jia family so that helps his odds.

Fairy Disenchantment 2.5/5: is in charge of the group that sends Crimson pearl flower and the stone to earth as humans but doesn't do much outside of that.

Vanitas 1.5/5: Also from the spirit world, he publishes the book of the stone, but that happens way after the events of the book so I doubt it

The Zhen couple 1/5: they only really impact Jia yu-cun, at least in this chapter, so unlikely

Ying-ling: 0.1/5: she barely exists until she gets kidnapped so she could easily be left out.