#don't say that luke is just the first for harwin to welcome. don't don't don't don't say it don't

[mhsdatgo]

What fire and blood version do you read? https://pin.it/5zmnMIik4 this? Alicent and otto start claiming that viserys should name Aegon heir the moment he was born, that's why otto was litterally sent away. And alicent instead of creating a good relationship with rhaenyra cause yk she was an adult and rhaenyra a child, she make every effort to be sure to create dislike between the family. She start spreading gossip about rhaenyra’s sexuality, her first three sons claiming that their eggs would have not hatch and sequentially that viserys egg was a sign of bad omen (like girl none of your children eggs hatch shut your mouth), impressing her sons about them being the rightful heir over rhaenyra's sons, infact the book point out how aegon aemond and daeron were bullying rhaenyra's sons. If there was a damage alicent increased of 1000%. You would like to have a relationship with a woman that spread venom on all your family all the time? Alicent create all of this, rhaenyra had welcomed her when she marry Viserys. She made sure to create animosity only to end up like "rhaenyra will hurt my children!!!! " maybe if she didn't torment her she wouldn't have doubted? And that is really funny you to claim that alicent fight for her children as if rhaenyra wouldn't spare all of them only to aemond killing luke and aegon celebrate it. Please listen to yourself and re read the book, the only one who were in danger were rhaenyra and her children at the hands of alicent and her. The green were litterally write to be the villain stop pretending alicent was acting due to her good heart nor the care for her children. And stop pretending she was a victim of viserys's since she was marry to a men only 10 years older that adore her and cover her with gifs, litterally the only thing he denied her was taking a five years old eye and name Aegon heir, how could she lived with such abuse??

She was in a better situation that most of the ladies of Westeros, rhaenyra was married at 16, same rhaenys with a man of 37, haelena at 13. Also, ask Robert Baratheon or most of the men in Westeros what would they have done if their wife had disrespected them all the time like alicent did with viserys, and you will understand how privileged alicent's situation was.

"And Alicent instead of creating a good relationship with her because yk she was an adult and Rhaenyra a child, she make every effort to be sure to create dislike between the family."

Girl.

GIRLIE.

FAIR MAIDEN.

WHAAAAAAAT a horrible stepmother. LOOK at her, trying in every possible way to break the family she was made to wed inside, look at her disobeying to her KING!!! What a bitch move!

Instead, look at the way our beautiful perfect QWEEN Rhaenyra proved herself to be loving and compassionate towards her brothers, TOTALLY not showing just how much of a threat she was to their lives ❤️:

Note: sharply questioned means TORTURED. I'm tired of people saying it's not.

Breaking news: people have eyes. People had been whispering about these children's legitimacy since Jace was born. Alicent simply believed it as well, probably out of scorn not gonna lie, wasn't afraid to say it out loud and just happened to be someone with a lot of influence. Moreover I don't think it's ever been mentioned if Alicent's children ever HAD eggs put inside their cradles, it wouldn't be the first time. Neither Daemon nor Viserys had their dragons as hatched eggs in the cradle.

Seriously, we have the court, the whole Queen's party, the kids looking awfully similar to Harwin Strong (and leave Rhaenys out of this, she has black hair and purple eyes and the boys have brown hair and brown eyes) and you still believe all the speculations over Rhaenyra is to blame entirely on... Alicent?

Yes, all six of the children ended up hating each other, and yes, we have a quote entirely about the way their mothers' hate for each other was passed on to them, the key word is that it was both.

Again, blaming ONLY Alicent for what kids and preteens probably repeat from the elder people they hear it from. If saying that "Jace, Luke and Joff stole Aegon and Aemond and Daeron's birthright" and pushing a three year old down sounds like bullying to you then you don't know what bullying is. And honestly, (not saying they are necessarily right) who could blame them for thinking this way? They were the first trueborn sons in the history of that dynasty that were passed on in favour of a woman that basically had the word "treasonous" painted on her forehead, all because of favouritism.

No, Rhaenyra wouldn't spare them. She wouldn't have a choice, no matter if she wanted to or not. To a lot of lords, Rhaenyra's claim had been rid of any kind of ground the moment Aegon and his brothers were born. Viserys of course did nothing but make it worse, by never reaffirming Rhaenyra as the heir during a ceremony like the one we see in S1 or anything public, and never even changing the laws of succession.

If your reference for this is the statement she made after becoming a Queen, namely:

Then sorry, but after the way she treated them, spoke of them, threatened to do to them, then sorry but I don't believe she wouldn't do anything when most of the lords who had sworn loyalty to her were dead and their sons weren't bound by that oath like Jason Lannister. They were threats, serious threats, and needed to be put down.

And even if Rhae actually cared for them, y'know what? It would change nothing.

"The Greens were written as the villains" you're just proving my point. You didn't understand the whole point of the Dance of the Dragons. There isn't good or bad, there's a family that destroys itself over their own safety and a fucking throne.

Oh yes, I guess Viserys hoping to shut Alicent up (when she was making valid complains that excuse of a man did nothing but ignore) by giving her gifts surely means he adored her, wow. Best marriage ever. But hey, at least she wasn't beaten up, handed over as a child or groomed! How lucky Alicent is! And she still complains?

Greedy Alicent! No way to behave! Should've been slapped across the face like any other man would've rightfully done!

Seriously, calling Alicent "privileged" because her husband reportedly "only" ignored her all the time and saying Viserys adored her because he gave her gifts is... Wow. If you want to see a man who ACTUALLY adored his wife, go see Aegon V and Betha Blackwood.

[unusual-raccoon]

thank you for your support my love, you're the absolute best 🥺 <3 <3 <3 *kisses your forehead* also, i love how you got the part of the promised prince! you cannot tell me daemon looked at his first son with rhaenyra, a son half him and half his love, and didn't say "yes. this motherfucker is going to be the one" gsahjdgjas that sword just expresses what he feels about his first son!

also, you can tell they fought big when they retired to their rooms 😭 like

rhaenyra: you knew about this!

daemon: i suspected this

rhaenyra: how could you keep me in the dark!?

daemon:

rhaenyra: don't you have anything to say!?!?

daemon:

rhaenyra:

daemon:.......their kids are going to be beautiful????

You’re so so welcome my darling! It was a wonderful read 🤍

Just envisioned Daemon fist bumping his newborn son 🤭 like “yup nothing else is topping this”. Daemon being an affectionate father my beloved. The idea that both he and Rhaenyra got Jace that sword is actually so sweet.

OMG the Red Keep is SHAKING-

They’re not ready for Daemyra “they are restless and chaotic” to pop off.

Daemon wearing his JaceLuke merch like: my love, I don’t see a problem here

I totally imagine Jace & Daemon bonding and frequently spending time together (idk how you have the timeline here set up) but if the events stick to canon that Jace was still raised by Laenor and Harwin as his father figures.

“They may have raised you, but I am your father, Jacaerys - your blood”

Daemon was the first person Jace went to about Luke.

“You are Targaryen, it is in your nature.”

Poor Nyra is like “hmm, what are all these red flags 🚩?”

Daemon was also the first person to know (and approve) and Jace wanting to marry Luke. Giggling and twirling his hair because he bestowed Rhaenyra’s old Valyrian steel necklace as a courting gift for his son.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

He didn’t break his oath but he broke my heart 💔 - by Rachel Hoo (raychelwho)

[ladymorghul]

Hi, I hope you're doing well! I have to say your blog is one of my fave hotd blogs, your headcanos never fail to give me a boost of serotonin. I'd love to know your thoughts about the theory that helaena's children might be aemond's? I was initially a very big fan of it and I believe it has a good chance of becoming canon, but after reading some opinions on the matter, and as a fellow tgc's aegon enjoyer I am now conflicted, people are arguing that if the theory was true it'd take away from aegon's much needed character development and that aemond doesn't need that extra layer of suffering after the b&c incident, he will already feel immense guilt over it especially cuz Luke's death was an accident so adding the 'he's actually the children's father!' thing might be too much and just so the an eye for an eye, a son for a son hits harder. And I also wonder how that might work with him later meeting and fathering a child with Alys, although that all depends on how they plan to portray their relationship on the show. All in all I think it's an interesting theory to discuss. I'm sorry it turned into a messy rambling! I needed to get it out of my chest

hey! thank you very much for the kind words! i hope you're well as well! and ay, haha, that's honestly so sweet of you to say i'm so happy my ramblings over here resonate with you <3

tbh this answer will be controversial and you and others might not like it but since you asked.... i'll answer to the best of my ability. my thoughts on this are all over the place so you'll get some messy ramblings as well. sorry for that :/

i do not take issue with aemond x helaena as a ship for my own personal reasons, and everyone is welcome to have their own opinion on it. but i do think aemond x helaena as a ship is separate from the theory of aemond fathering helaena's children.

personally, i don't like the idea of aemond fathering helaena's children because it would really put the greens in a bad light. aemond judges rhaenyra for her bastard children and alicent thinks it's an insult what rhaenyra did with laenor and harwin, so to have aemond not just father bastards of his own, but by doing so delegitimizing aegon's children as heirs (with or without aegon's knowledge and consent) would turn them into big hypocrites.

is there something to be said about the irony of life? yes, but i think this would be a bit too much considering other things that the greens already have working against them in this war. and aemond knows very well what this would mean for his entire family and i don't think he would want that.

i don't think them being aemond's children would have taken that much from aegon's angst, but i do agree it's not really necessary to add that to aemond's already immense guilt towards his nephew, his sister, her children, alicent and aegon himself.

but they better utilize aegon appropriately in relation to b&c otherwise it's gonna be wasted.

that being said.... would that be the first time this story has an extra layer of suffering that was not that necessary? jaehaera targaryen, as part of peace terms, is forced to marry the son of the man who killed her brothers and drove her mother to suicide and then later, without producing heirs of her own, she dies in a similar manner to her mother, except she suffers in agony for half an hour. so i'm not writing it off just on the basis of it not being necessary because it's obvious the trauma in this story is on steroids.

but, imho, aemond's own relationship with alys later strikes me as hypocritical because afaik she is a bastard. maybe it's the idea that the irony of life made aemond fall in love with a bastard but idk... and she's so much older than him + i hear conflicting perspectives on their relationship. which is why i don't wanna say too much on this relationship at all and i'll have to wait and see how the show presents it. all i'll say is that they'll have to do some layering with this relationship because if it just happens with no context to the audience many will see aemond as a hypocrite.

as for helaena and aemond.... do i want helaena to have some smidge of happiness in her life with aemond? yes. do i think they're gonna make it happen? i don't know. every day i alternate between "maybe" and "probably not". but this is not about aemond being the children's father, but about them having a special relationship seeking comfort in each other. obviously, that doesn't mean it has to be romantic, but sue me, sometimes i see it as such. i can see it as both platonic, brotherly, etc. and separately when i want as romantic.

i’m gonna watch the story regardless of this is gonna be romantic or not. i just hope we get to see more of all of the green kids. 

[sweetestpopcorn]

Recently I've seen so many book stans repeating all the time that harwin was rhaenyra's soulmate/great love or whatever and I'm always so surprised lol, like when did someone make up that hc and decided that it was true just because they liked it???? There is barely anything on f&b about their relationship and I wouldn't say that the little the book has about them could lead me to that conclusion. Him being her lover and giving her children while she's married to a gay man is not enough to treat that as canon. I'm used to stans of the trash hbo show treating hcs or whatever they did there as the truth but book stans talking about their hcs as if they were established facts on the text makes me confused

Hi there Anon 🤗

I could say I am surprised but I would honestly be lying because book fans, "experts" and "intellectuals" saying things (and at times making wild claims - though it's not the case here) without a proper canon source has been common for many years.

Once again, having headcanons is perfectly fine, and to each their own, but claiming things we think are true without proper basis should not be made.

So Harwin Strong suffers much from the same problem as Laena Velaryon does in the sense that he does not have a proper personality. Her personality is liking to fly, his is being strong. He's also in a way defined not as a character but just as a way to get the "Velaryon" princes much like Laena is a way to get Baela and Rhaena and make Daemon a father.

About his relationship with Rhaenyra we know a few things, let me elaborate for anyone not familiar with the facts:

1- He had courted her before Viserys decided to marry Rhaenyra to Laenor (check Fire and Blood pg. 369)

2- He had long desired her (check Fire and Blood pg. 371)

3- According to Mushroom he was the man who actually took Rhaenyra's v-card. However, also according to Mushroom, this was less based on any love and more on rejection by Criston + anger + being h0rny (check Fire and Blood pg. 371)

4- Also according to Mushroom he was always by her side, they were lovers and he was the father of her three sons (Fire and Blood pg. 371, 372, 373, 376, and 377).

5- Septon Eustace raises the rumour that Harwin was Rhaenyra's lover and the father of her sons and dismisses it. HOWEVER, he also says that Harwin was by her side when she gave birth to Luke (check pg. 376) AND LATER ON gives us this pearl -> "Septon Eustace, more plausibly, suspects Prince Daemon, removing a rival for Princess Rhaenyra's affections." (Fire and Blood, pg. 383)

Eustace:

Can I just:

6- The year of 120 AC started and ended the same way: with Daemon's wife giving birth. Plot twist -> it was not the same wife.

Why am I bringing this up you ask? Well, because you see at the start of the year Daemon was married to Laena and Rhaenyra was still together with Harwin (who was her husband in every way except on paper). Yet at the end of the year Rhaenyra and Daemon are welcoming their first son together.

So they have at most 3 months for:

-Laena to die

-Laenor to die

-Harwin to die

Until the moment of conception... though... Harwin was sent away not too long before the fire of Harrenhal and Otto arriving to court as the new Hand to replace Lyonel, when it's announced Rhaenyra and Daemon got married. We don't know exact dates but it's entirely possible that Aegon's conception happened before my last point - Harwin's death.

So... what is undeniable here? Harwin and Rhaenyra were lovers for 6 years. They had 3 sons back to back (hehe). They spent a lot of time together. From the small information we have he seems very devoted to her. If nothing else they seem physically compatible and attracted to each other, and we know he desired Rhaenyra s#xually. It is also undeniable that barely was he cold on his grave - if he was dead at all - and Daemon was already "in" Rhaenyra (either they were married around this time or not remains a matter of debate).

Also undeniable, we have a LOT mentions of how Rhaenyra loved Daemon throughout her life - childhood, teenage years, and adulthood - and how they were close in all three of these moments. They were repeatedly separated only to be reunited and eventually married, and even while he was still married to Laena, and Rhaenyra was still together with Harwin and they were often together -> and no I don't believe they had any time of affair around this time and there is no mention/rumour of this having happened so if you see someone saying this it's a headcanon not a fact.

If the question here was: What was the healthiest relationship Rhaenyra had? The answer is clearly with Harwin Strong, a man much closer in age to her (estimates are that there were 7 years between them though it can be slightly more but likely not that much; if Harwin was 30 or pushing 30 by 114 AC it would be highly unusual for him to still be unmarried given his high position in society and the average age of marriage in Westeros), that was devoted her, and that she never actually ended the relationship as much as she was forced to end the relationship because they were made to be separated -> much like it happened with her and Daemon in 112 AC.

Small note on this last point because it does showcase a major difference between Rhaenyra's relationship with Harwin and her relationship with Daemon.

In 112 AC, when she and Daemon are discovered - what exactly they were doing can be debated between bases 2, 3, or 4 - after they are separated, Rhaenyra has no other relationship (besides being courted and having dudes after her) until 114 AC... when she is forced to marry Laenor Velaryon.

In 120 AC, upon being publicly accused of having an affair with Harwin Strong and being separated from him not two months pass - and this would mean Laena's death and Laenor's death happened in the same month which I find unlikely so we are probably dealing with less time than two months - and she is in bed with Daemon.

Now, some points could be made here such as:

What she went through in 112 AC was more traumatic than what she went through in 120 AC so maybe it was not like she liked one man more than the other but just that she didn't want to be caught again and have more trouble;

Or that -> the man she truly wanted was Criston (according to Mushroom) but he had refused her so that's why there was no one else and she only attempted again when she was desperate; But I ask, given everything that happened, given the entire story, what do you think? What is the simplest answer? What is more plausible? If you have to think too much or give too complicated an answer, if it’s not obvious... it’s probably not the correct option. 

About the question is Harwin her soulmate/one true love? On that regard, given the book and the facts, I think given everything the answer is no. Clearly the most important relationship of her life, the man she loved above all others, the one she never forgot, was Daemon.

Was this reciprocated? Debatable. Maybe very debatable. But from Rhaenyra's part I really do fail to see any merit in arguing against it when there is just so much in the books and it all aligns with the simple fact that: she loved and never forgot Daemon.

Did this mean she didn't love Harwin? No, I don't think it does. It is more than possible and completely common that throughout one's life we will love more than one person -> I am talking about actual love not just passion. It's highly unlikely that someone like Rhaenyra who had so few partners (2) would maintain a relationship for so long without having feelings for the person. Going any further and extrapolating it to "love of her life"... yeah stretch, and headcanon. Which everyone is very free to have!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and headcanons and we should respect them and if it's not for us, we just move away.

Tbh though, it's not a headcanon that I have any significant problem with. It's justice for Harwin and he kind of deserves it because for so long he was completely brushed over and ignored and while Laena was the love of Daemon's life based on www.voicesinmyhead.com, by the same voices Rhaenyra didn't give a flying f_ck about Harwin and he was little more than a disposable dild0. What I think is motivating this though is not the books said readers read, but another thing and you guessed it: REDACTED.

If I had a penny for every "book-reader" that is now debating REDACTED as if it's part of book canon I would be very rich. Which would be nice since I would have something positive come out of this :))

And if there is still doubt about what REDACTED says about canon, besties, here you go:

Sorry for the very long answer! Anyway, good on you Ser Beefcakes! At least you are having some recognition.

Harwin Strong regarding his fate of dying yet still having been Rhaenyra's lover for 6 years and potentially having her v-card on his back pocket: