#doesnt that tell you they have a massive problem with interacting with any critisism on its own?

[rise-my-angel]

I’m such a big Targ fan but I can not stand most Targ fans because they don’t get it. The valyrians are interesting and cool because they are fucked up. I love the Targaryens because I am a horror and sci-fi fan. Like yeah dragons are cool too but they wouldn’t be nearly as cool if everything surrounding them weren’t horrifying and twisted. I love Dany because she is a flawed and complex character and it is so easy to draw lines through her narrative to understand why she is the way she is and what led her to make different mistakes and how she got to her self delusions. But most Dany fans will call me a Dany hater for being like hey let’s analyze why Dany has never second guessed her decision to kill Mirri even though every other act of violence she’s been directly or indirectly responsible for (ie the crucifixions or Viserys’s death) has weighed on her conscience to some extent despite the fact that Mirri was a slave who was punished for rising up against her master, Drogo. The cognitive dissonance is so interesting and ripe for analysis but I have been accused of only pretending to be a Dany fan for recognizing this. A lot of actual Dany haters churn out way more meaningful Dany metas because most Dany fans are just oh she’s an unambiguous good hero who will be queen and I think that’s so boring

(note I got off my couch in the middle of writing a new chapter to go to my main computer to answer this that's how much you caught my attention)

The thing is, I totally get what you mean. Theres a Targaryean I am sort of like this for in a way. The character himself has been soured by such a deluded and hostile fan base about what is allowed to be said or thought about him, but if it weren't for the way most targ stans are, I would be 1000% more into Rhaegar as a character.

It would never change I think he's a bad person who did monstrous things for questionable if not quite selfish means who I would never support, but I also love Euron Greyjoy who is 100% an irredeemable monster. Rhaegar's entire existence is fasnicating. From the Ghost of High Hart being the reason his parents were married, to his life defining birth right in the middle of the fiery tragedy of Summerhall which effected his life. How such a terrible place was the only place he was every described as being happy in, likely because his existence is tied with great tragedy. How that likely deeply influenced him into buying into the Ghost of High Harts words of the prince that was promised being born from his father and mothers blood line which led to his delusions which ended up negatively impacting every person in his life leading to their deaths including his own. He should be a fascinating character study for me, but the way targ stans talk about him has ruined any chance of discussion because any nuance I could provide is going to be taken as pro Rhaegar talking points.

Same with Valyria in general. The Valyrian people were delusional and terrifying and the world is better off without them, but I love exploring why. I don't hate Targaryeans to hate them, I hate them because they are interesting to hate. They are facsinating because of what makes them horrible. And liking them as characters isn't at all wrong.

Its the lack of willingness to engage with their favourite charatcers greatest flaws and realistic motivations. It's a disconnect. They will push back against every single argument that Dany is a horrible, selfish tyrant possible, and then cite her atrocities as why I'm wrong and it's like..they have bought so much into the propoganda that they have created a false image of this character they supposedly love. Why love a version of a character that you need to bend over backwards to justify is the real version against the facts of the actual story?

They are desperate to look as if their favourite characters make them morally righteous. When liking a morally honourable character does not say anything about you other then what particular character you enjoy more then another. I am not claiming to be better then Rhaegar stans because I love Ned Stark, but they will slander Ned Stark as much as they can to justify why they prefer Rhaegar instead of just admitting they have a preference.

I get accused of being a Sansa hater, because I am both very against jonsa (ship and shippers) and I am very critical of her post season 4 character. But in the books and the first 4 seasons, shes not my favourite but I love her. But because I go against the popular ship and I am critical of her various actions over the course of the different versions of her character, I am seen as a hater. Its the same with Dany and many Targaryeans.

Its either toe the public opinion, or keep them out of your mouth which is insane for a fandom of a story literally built upon the varying complexities of a characters grey areas.

They want asoiaf/got to be way more black and white then it ever has been. Which is such a poor way of interacting with a story you are passionate about.

Dany can be a tyrant and an interesting character. She can be a cruel and selfishly bloodthristy woman and your favourite character. But these stans are allergic to those ideas not being mutually exclusive.

I dont hate targ stans because they are targ stans, I hate targ stans because they will attack any dissenting opinons that do not fall into their perfect protagonist hero image they've conjured up.

But they got nothing on me. I love Euron Greyjoy. The most disgusting monster in the whole series who I also would rather slingshot him into the sun then let him walk around alive in the world. I will never defend his bad choices, and never condemn someone for calling him an immoral monster. His lack of humanity is what makes his choices so interesting.

These targ stans though, could not possibly be strong enough to be the same for even a minute for their favourite Targaryean.