#deku vs shigafo

[evelynpr]

Horikoshi's manga ended, so he decided to just keep drawing insane bangers of art to post on his own twitter- damn he already misses drawing them rjdndnksks

[shih-coulda-had-it]

Honestly knowing how All For One is, I wouldn’t be surprised if he kept Yoichi’s body on ice somewhere for the past 100+ years,

winter soldierize your weak little brother so he can be STRONG and OBEDIENT.

[robotlesbianjavert]

Hori making Spinner write a book dedicated to the destruction like,,, 🤦

okay i'm still sitting around in my feelings about this because we got a couple of different tracks going on this chapter that would ultimately influence how spinner's book could turn out.

firstly, spinner is speaking positively about shigaraki and what he meant to him, a back and forth on praising shigaraki for what he represented, as a destroyer and a leader and a symbol. he also humanizes shigaraki, as a guy to liked the same games and was spinner's first friend. he has a moment of regret* that he couldn't do more to save shigaraki himself, make better choices. in this moment spinner is grieving and angry, at deku and society and himself, and is firing off on all cylinders to do one last thing for shigaraki. the destruction that shigaraki spoke of, that spinner desired, meant something to them, and it meant something to them for specific reasons.

(*note that i really wish that if horikoshi was going to expound on spinner's existing-ish character flaw of trying to shut down thinking about things when the pressure gets too much, he maybe could have referenced a better story beat for spinner to reflect on, or had given spinner actual choices and options about the shigafo situation that he turned a blind eye to. as it is, it feels like a lame attempt to introduce nuance into a situation but not providing enough substance for that nuance to actually land. bnha is always doing this.)

secondly, the documentary used to contrast spinner's feelings is both inconsiderate/ignorant of shigaraki as a person and why he did the things he did. nothing encapsulates this more than the cameo from the fuckin long walk grandma. but it's not wrong about the tragedy of the destruction that he wrought, the loss of life (although "honestly this blows" in the officials really undermines that lmao), the potential his actions had in inspiring others to follow in his footsteps and cause more grief, "spin more sadness". what the people in the documentary are missing is why people would sympathize and want what shigaraki represented in the first place.

overall, we've got something to work with for how spinner can approach his book and what he'll write about vs what the public perception could be. we've also got an in-universe example of a book published about a controversial "villainous" figure - destro's memoirs as republished by the MLA, which simultaneously could be dismissed by "normal" citizens like miyashita, while also being successful recruiting material for the MLA, speaking to people who related to destro's ideals.

so okay, spinner writes his book. this can go a couple of ways.

a) it comes across as a bunch of fanatical, unpolished ravings fully propelled by the strength of spinner's emotions, his grief and rage and devotion, and is very alien and isolating to any casual readers. it can be dismissed the same way normies dismissed destro's memoir, maybe even suppressed, and won't have the same kind of strategic vision and social capital that MLA possessed in their recruitment plans. it might gain notoriety in the same vein as stain merch getting popular after his spree, and inspire some fringe desperados to start their villainous careers. but unless the next afo/shigaraki is out there ready to capitalize on such a cultural moment, i don't know if it'll reach the same levels as the league's rise did. in any case, not the best look for spinner and that destruction he loves.

b) while the grief and rage and devotion are still big motivations for spinner, the act of writing it all out gives him the frame of mind and tools he needs to process it, to disentangle the knots of his feelings and perception of self, his perception of shigaraki, and take a more methodical approach in providing his and the league's perspectives. spinner references shigaraki as the "symbol of fear", but this means something different to him than it does to the general populace, to all for one, to shigaraki himself. can spinner convey that? the appeal of the destruction that shigaraki promised, while being so much more than that? in this scenario there's still going to a lot of push back - the documentary warns against sob stories after all - but maybe reception will be kinder. if nothing else, maybe just the exercise of it all will lift a weight off of spinner.

i wonder about destro's book. how he wrote about his mother.

[livefreebutwisely]

Editor: ok. new volume cover. something cool. Deku vs ShigAFO. maybe time to show 2nd user’s colors. La Brava, Gentle and Lady Nagant’s return. an incredible huge amount of material to--

Horikoshi: get it. cool. emotional. turning point--

Editor: hold on--

Horikoshi: and so be it--

Editor: THAT’S NOT--

Horikoshi: a bkdk’s cover for you!

Editor: what i meant.

[theophagie]

uptick in discourse regarding katsuki's role in deku vs shigafo got thinking. like, of course, it's already been set up that it's gonna need both of them to win and save but other than that, i just think about how katsuki has been the person tomura has harmed the most out of the entire cast, the most recent person he's "killed" and having Katsuki not play a big role just seems dumb

"That sign won't stop me because I can't read!". At this point I'm willing to bet that when the time comes #they will spread made up rumours of fans sending Horikoshi death threats to bring him back just like they do with bkdk shippers 😑🤷‍♂️ not like he's also the coprotagonist and perfectly embodies everything that AFO stands against (the possibility for people to change for the better)

[sakubabypowa734]

🚨 BOKU NO HERO ACADEMIA CHAPTER 369 SPOILERS ALERT! Part 2 🚨

Nothing to much to tell except some panels of badass Deku

They all nine are there!

When his will to win is stronger than saving, his hair and face look so much like Bakugou...

He beats the shit out of ShigAFO

And out a hole in his chest like Shiga did to Bakugou.

He's got his revenge

[chaoflaka]

AFO: Hey! How’re ya-

Deku: (GROWLS AND SNARLS)!

AFO: (screech) GET YOUR F***** DOG BRO!

Yoichi: it don’t bite.

AFO: YES IT DO-!!

[grimalkinmessor]

*cracks knuckles* TIME TO GET INTO MY SHIGADEKUBAKU AGENDA

How Shigaraki is BOTH Midoriya And Bakugou's Main Villain And How They're All Tied Together: A Long Ramble

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First thing's first—parallels. Specifically the differences between thematic parallels and narrative foils.

Hori has set Bakugou up as Shigaraki's thematic parallel, and Midoriya up as his narrative foil by making Midoriya mirror Tenko while also having Bakugou mirror Shigaraki.

Both Midoriya and Tenko grew up abused and lonely, one thought to be Quirkless and the other actually Quirkless, and even then the first manifested a 'villainous' Quirk not long afterward. Both of them have experienced Quirk discrimination and the inequality of society.

Both were shamed and discouraged for wanting to be a hero to the point that others would get physically violent with them. And while all three of them idolized All Might as children, only Midoriya and Tenko (specifically Shimura) have direct connections to All Might.

Meanwhile, Bakugou and Shigaraki are more physically similar. Both of them have extremely destructive, hand-centralized Quirks, and both of them have the same sort of attitude about them—even their speech patterns are similar in that they both say brash things while simultaneously staying polite in their actions. They are both quick to anger and yet incredibly intelligent and strategic, as well as not-so-natural leaders.

Bakugou's learning curve mirrors Shigaraki's on that almost identically. They approach their set goals with a stubborn single-mindedness that's honestly impressive.

The only place that they really differ is in their mindset towards battle.

Where Bakugou has always fought and trained to achieve absolute victory, Shigaraki has grown up being told that failure is expected and should be turned into a learning experience.

And now in this recent battle this difference is even more important, because while Bakugou is now finding a sort of 'freedom' in failure, Shigaraki has victory in his grasp and yet ultimately remains trapped.

Where Midoriya recognizes Tenko and his pain, but can't understand Shigaraki's villainy, the reverse is true for Bakugou. Where Bakugou cannot relate to discrimination and discouragement, he can understand Shigaraki's villainous mindset.

Because Bakugou has a mirrored redemption arc.

Both he and Shigaraki have anger issues. They lash out and hurt people at the slightest provocation, and are obsessed with making sure that they get what they want. If anyone gets in their way, they're toast.

Or, that WAS the case, at least.

Because wouldn't you know it, Bakugou has since grown! He was confronted with his own weakness, and learned the value of teamwork and kindness by making friends—though his ultimate form of redemption came through Midoriya.

Sounds kinda familiar, doesn't it?

My third point, which my bakudekus will love, is that Midoriya and Bakugou were always meant to be a team.

I always wondered why Bakugou didn't have a true villain of his own, before I realized that it's because Shigaraki is both Bakugou and Midoriya's main villain.

They are a matched set, a pair—you cannot have one without the other. Bakugou and Midoriya have each encountered Shigaraki once alone (Midoriya at the mall and Bakugou during his kidnapping), and every other time they've faced him together.

Because Bakugou was never meant to be his own hero with his own story. He's always been intimately tied in with Midoriya.

This goes all the way back to Deku vs. Kacchan 2, where the phrase 'win to save, save to win' came up, because it comes to fruition in their fight with Shigaraki.

Midoriya is not meant to fight Shigaraki, because he needs to save him. And only Midoriya can save him, because he's the only one who understands that Tenko needs to be saved.

Bakugou is not meant to save Shigaraki, because he needs to fight him. And, as we've seen in the new chapters, (what, you think a student would be the only hero to land a hard hit on the villain if it wasn't plot relevant?) only Bakugou can fight him, because he understands Shigaraki.

To beat ShigAFO, and to save Tenko, both Bakugou and Midoriya need to be the ones to face him. Together.

Both Bakugou and Midoriya understand helplessness intimately. They both know exactly what Shigaraki is going through right now.

In order for All For One to be defeated, and Shigaraki to be saved, you need them both. Because Bakugou couldn't do it on his own, and I guarantee you that Midoriya won't be able to do it on his own either.

And after Shigaraki is let loose, I'm willing to bet that it will take all three of them turning on All For One to defeat him. Not only because it seals Shigaraki's own redemption arc in place, but because it will finally be the three of them all together on the same side.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk! :D

[chandralia]

Bakugo is currently understanding his limits. He gave it his all, acknowledged it wasn’t enough, and decided to do what he can for now (analyze ShigAFO’s moves).

But he’s not done.

So there’s nothing wrong with him accepting help. Do you really think the person who said this would be hypocritical about that right now??

Why are people suddenly forgetting his progress?

His provisional licensing exam.

Working with his partners during 1A vs 1B.

Heading into the war.

Teaming up with 1A to get Deku back.

Reiterating not doing things on your own in his apology.

Literally prepared to team up with Deku again.

Teaming up with other heroes.

Deku hasn’t even returned yet, so we’re just talking about it, but there’s nothing wrong with him potentially saving Bakugo. Especially since that’s where the story began…

[lunaaudiocoski]

ShigAFO vs Deku

[haleigh-sloth]

AFO doesn’t have a heart right I think in order to Deku to save Tenko he has to reach his heart something AFO doesn’t have that has been a running things since class a vs class b when blackwhip first manifested

I actually talked about this last year here.

It's an old post, and I link to some OTHER posts in that linked post that don't completely reflect my takes now. So be mindful of that if you read it.

But the post I linked to talks about the heart/soul/AFO situation.

He has a heart, I mean literally yes. He's human.

Saving Shigaraki is a matter of saving the heart--a la the entirety of BNHA defining a hero by several ideals: Saving those within your reach, giving help that's not asked for, and saving someone by saving not just the body but the heart.

So saving Shigaraki is a literal rescue mission on the surface, but beneath it's a lot of personal obstacles he needs help facing so he can set himself free. THAT is saving by starting with the heart, with Midoriya helping him begin to face and deal with that stuff. Because up until now he's avoided it like the plague.

And it ties in even more when you remember that Shigaraki said this in MVA:

And then you learn where that source of never ending rage started from:

Shigaraki is a mass of anger, resentment, hatred for everything and everyone, and then hatred for himself. The latter being his biggest challenge to overcome, otherwise he won't be breaking free from AFO's hold.

I talked more about that here too.

So AFO's physical body isn't of any concern when it comes to saving Shigaraki both inside and out. I mean yeah he may get in the way, but ShigAFO and Shigaraki both are still inhabiting Shigaraki's body. They're both in there. There's a heart in there to save and it's not AFO's.

[dekusleftsock]

Okay, dabi theory time. Idk where I heard this so just bear with me in the possibility that the next chapter is NOT about toga vs ochako, but instead about dabi vs shoto (I’ll be using first names bc it bothers me when I’m using his last name when they’re all todoroki so just don’t mind that)

I think the only possible reason that this next chapter COULD be about them is in the case that the Phoenix theory is true. We haven’t been discussing the possibility of it for a while in mha, mostly because dabi just hasn’t been the main focus. Even when I read the chapter, I thought “it can’t be done like that, right?” I thought that horikoshi was going to drag it out more… and then he didn’t. It just seemed odd. The only narrative purpose it had was to boost the endeavor vs afo fight and all the other fights too.

It just overall seemed too easy. Too simple. All the other fights had some major thing happen with death. Endeavor might’ve died or is close to death, Katsuki did actually die, and toga vs ochako just hasn’t had enough time to have that sort of thing happen. Plus, while I do believe the fight with shigafo vs bkdk is going to happen LAST, togachako has to come right before it or be happening during the fight. Kind of like it switches back and forth in the battle with parallels. Quite obviously, the reason why this series isn’t ending in like 2 months or something is bc horikoshi is going to drag out that bkdk fight till the very last minute, plus a few goodbye chapters. The endeavor fight isn’t nearly over quite obviously, and the dabi fight felt too simple.

So, where does that leave them? Dabi vs shoto. Obviously it can’t JUST BE “shoto got control of a very cool move that completely takes out dabi”, so if dabi is now incapacitated.. what could happen? There isn’t any ofa mumbo jumbo happening like in Katsuki’s case and he also isn’t dead but how could he come back from that?

Simple. The phoenix quirk theory. Up until now, we’ve never actually gotten a name for dabis quirk. It’s also an established concept in the mha world that sometimes, your quirk could seem one way, but because of new information on it you can also update your quirk, like how deku did. I’m not gonna go over all of the phoenix quirk evidence, many more people have both more evidence, and have explained it better than me.

Either way, the phoenix quirk theory is this: the reason why dabis quirk is like hell flame but stronger and he has less resistance to it is because it works like a Phoenix. Phoenixes in folklore are flaming birds that are immortal, it’s often times used as an allegory for immortality and life after death. Usually in Greek and Egyptian lore. (Since it has a lot of associations with Greek folklore, I almost feel like it would add to bkdk being the story of Achilles but that’s for another day lol. Horikoshi’s secret obsession with Greek mythology would be amazing)

It’s also used for rebirth. Often times, Phoenixes are used in media for the “phoenix” to lose all of its memories once it dies, so the trade off for its immortality is the loss of its memory. Sometimes, like in Pokémons case, Phoenixes just go in molten hot volcanoes in order to heal when they are injured.

So, I think the way horikoshi is going to drag out dabi vs shoto’s fight is going to be by making dabi experience a “rebirth” through his quirk, which will make him lose a lot of memories. He will still have an unexplainable hatred for shoto, which will cause them to fight, but may ultimately be the only way shoto saves his brother like he wants to. This rebirth may also be foreshadowing Katsuki experiencing the same thing. There are again, many theories on here talking about this, so please go read them! Help you feel a lot better about this whole thing. It’s okay and normal to mourn a character, our brains often can’t separate real life and fictional people. To us they are just as real as the people you live with. And if you also don’t feel anything, that’s okay too! Don’t beat yourself up for feeling or not feeling anything. You can’t control how you feel.

I do have one belief that I’m gonna stick with for this next chapter. And it’s disappointing, but ultimately will be the best move horikoshi can make narratively if he wants to drag Katsuki’s death out. Which he most definitely does. Ntm if he doesn’t switch it now there just won’t be a better time. So, my newest predictions in battle order:

Dabi vs shoto

Endeavor vs afo

Toga vs uraraka

Shigafo vs bkdk

I’d love to hear anyone else’s thoughts so don’t be afraid to correct anything or just simply spout new ideas!!

[stardust-rust]

This is to answer an anon question about my post "The Weight of Victory" which I've omitted by request (hope this is okay!).

SPOILERS FOR CHAP 362!!!!!

**********

**********

So - yes, ABSOLUTELY therein lies the tragedy of Katsuki's almost-toxic relationship with "Victory." That there is an awful irony to his revival because he wants no casualties, yet someone died for his sake.

Everyone on that battlefield thinks Katsuki should win, and somehow they all think Edgeshot's life is worth the trade? Because I found it incredibly interesting that we specifically see Monoma's reaction to Katsuki's death - it's supposed to hammer in the fact that even his most ardent and mouthy detractor is shocked by Katsuki's loss (or at least, he didn't expect him to die).

But flip that around, and you have yet another convert to the "Katsuki wins" dogma, even though Monoma believed he brought down All Might and isn't worthy to be a hero.

The way Katsuki inspires the drive to win in his teammates and detractors is a double-edged sword: We need you to win vs We need you to win. There are no less than 5 others on the battlefield (and many more on the sidelines) and NONE of them protested Edgeshot giving up his life to revive Katsuki (granted, I don't expect a round table conference to discuss it in the middle of a war, but still). Even Best Jeanist merely cautioned Edgeshot that he "couldn’t return from this" instead of being "holy shit that's cray cray don't do it."

And why is that? Why do they believe Katsuki is absolutely necessary for this war? Beyond the whole "elders must support and look after the younger" is it their belief Katsuki holds the key to winning? Is their grand plan dependent on Katsuki's involvement (if it was, I don't think he would have been as reckless as to fight ShigAFO in close quarters - which ShigAFO himself commented on)? Do they think Deku "needs" his Symbol of Victory to hold it together enough to defeat ShigAFO?

Why must Katsuki bear the weight of these expectations, the heart-clenching grief of this sacrifice? His entire ethos as a hero - "no casualties, perfect victory" is completely invalidated by this death (and I know we're still assuming this is death for Edgeshot, but The Surgery seems almost complete). Sure we can argue that after this sacrifice Katsuki can still go on and inspire the next gen of heroes with a greater significance to his ethos, borne out of solemn experience and not arrogant naiveté, but it's still kind of heartbreaking.

I once wrote in a fic "Katsuki wants to drag Deku close and force him to confront the cost of his dreams, the price that everyone who loves him has to pay." And it's so so painful that the same thing is happening to Katsuki when there is a very complicated argument for whether winning is solely something he wants from himself, or what Deku (and everyone else) wants from him.

Katsuki did not ask nor expect to be resurrected, because his life was his own to sacrifice and in some ways it should have been respected (EVEN THOUGH I AM VERY VERY VERY GLAD HE'S COMING BACK I'M JUST SAYING THERE IS AN ARGUMENT FOR CONSENT AND ETHICS HERE but if their grand plan does need him I will accept this sacrifice as necessary). Horikoshi's own words "Saving (and destroying) are both born out of ego" is VERY APT here.

When Katsuki wakes up he will have to confront the grim consequences of his "weakness" YET AGAIN and also the HEAVIER weight of expectations that's been thrust upon him. Anon I am afraid too 😭😭😭

[bakugoukatsuki-rising]

Ok two things

1. Why do you think the dudebros are so power hungry about deku? Like they don't want to try to accept the nuance about the fact that deku vs class-1A is about a fight to save someone from the brink than just to see who's more powerful.

2. A stupid name I just came up with about shigafo (shiggy/AFO)

I think they're obsessed with OP main characters to combat their internal toxic masculinity so to think this fight is going to be more than Deku kicking his classmates asses is too much for their pea-sized brains to handle

That is a good name lmao

[sakubabypowa734]

🚨 BOKU NO HERO ACADEMIA CHAPTER 368 SPOILERS ALERT! 🚨

Mirio's important discovery. When he said Shigaraki has no friends, it's not ShigAFO who answered but Tenko

Finally! 2nd OFA user's quirk is revealed!

"Transmission"

One Punch Deku!

Smash his ass!

Nana sees something, someone especially! Her son, Kotaro?...

Yoichi is here meeting his damned brother when Deku destroyed ShigAFO!

[stillness-in-green]

I think it’s pretty interesting how we’ve got Toga vs Deku, Ochako, and Tsuyu, aka the three hero kids she’s had (one-sided) positive interactions with/feelings towards.

Man, I wish Tsuyu had ever gotten more involved in any of this. Maybe she will yet, of course—Tsuyu’s always been probably the single most practical student in the class, and that has the potential to bring some interesting conflict to a fight with someone Deku and Uraraka have already been swinging towards sympathy for. (And god knows we’re overdue for some conflict on the whole “saving villains” angle.)

I’ve seen a few comments around about it being weird and/or annoying that Toga goes from thoughtful, insightful and as communicative as she can manage when she’s solo against Uraraka, but as soon as Deku shows back up, she swings hard back towards yandere schoolgirl. I’m tentatively inclined to agree—it’s particularly odd, given that her emotions seemed so settled, so final when she fled Uraraka in tears. I almost have to wonder if the “be my boyfriend” thing is a preface to her attempting to kill the lot of them with Sad Man’s Parade, seeing as she’s been set up to be resigned to the idea that her sort of love will never be accepted by the people she holds that particular love for, so she might as well go all the way with it.

Also, and this is somewhat sideways of the point, but I’ve been wanting to talk about it, so: Toga and Danger Sense.

It's been foreshadowed for ages that Danger Sense wouldn't help with Toga, but the explanation we got when it finally came up conflicts with the prior foreshadowing? I wonder if there’s going to be any attempt to reconcile those two very different explanations.

Deku/Shinomori’s conclusion is that it’s because her conception of (romantic) love is inextricably attached to violence, such that her intent doesn’t “ping” as dangerous because she legitimately feels no hostile intent towards Deku even when she's swinging a knife at him.*

Meanwhile, Toga herself, when masquerading as Camie for the License Exam (see Chapter 105), laid out explicitly that Deku couldn't sense her coming because she'd learned how to attack people while clearing her mind of any intent at all. It's a battle manga martial arts explanation, to be sure, but it tracks with her appearances throughout in the canon. Indeed, why bother giving Toga an ability like that to begin with, even going so far as to have her explain it, if that ability and its mechanism would never be relevant?

I feel like both the Clear Mind and the Heart Full Of Love explanations work, but the former works better and has been foreshadowed for way longer. I wonder if Hori changed his mind on it at some point, or decided he liked this other explanation better, or if either Shinomori’s deduction or Toga’s self-assessment is just incorrect.

Well, in either case, I look forward to seeing how it’s going to go. Hope Toga buys ShigAFO lots and lots of time to tear his “floating coffin” apart at the seams. Thanks for the comment, anon!

* This would be compared to e.g. Aizawa back during the Shie Hassaikai arc, who I’m pretty sure Toga felt plenty of hostility towards!