#deans moral compass

[scoobydoodean]

Y’all ever notice Dean hates to see animals get hurt?

The bunny in 3.08. “Why’s the rabbit always get screwed in the deal? Poor little guy” 🥲

His protest that he wouldn’t deer hunt with Bobby because “That’s Bambi” (7.09).

Calling that one serial killer “A sick son of a bitch” specifically for killing a dog for a ritual (7.15).

Also we can’t forget his Disney princess moment in Regarding Dean.

[scoobydoodean]

#ruminated on this for a bit and here's my 2 cents I think they're both wrong#obviously they're wrong about roy being a killer but dean here is like. like he's just describing what hunters do on a weekly basis#they literally decide who lives and who dies all the time by saving people hunting things.#but given the person dean is it wouldn't surprise me if dean. knew this? and was aware of this in them both#like that killing roy would make dean the person 'playing god'#which brings me to sam and- my guy. firstly it absolutely would not make you just as bad as him#second if it would- if killing a killer would make you 'just as bad' then hey. you've been doing that. you HAVE been killing monsters#dean killed the 1x02 monster and the shapeshifter and I heard nothing out of you about that making him just as bad#so why are you protesting about it now? and it's because roy is human. and that makes his murder more unjustifiable#than if it were a monster because he's not *really* a *monster*. he's just a human.

#which on the one hand sure! because the reason hunters kill monsters is because you can't put a ghost or shapeshifter in jail.#it simply will not work so if you want to prevent them killing people you need to make sure they can't (by murder)#and yeah with a human those measures are not necessary! they /could/ just put roy in jail.#and dean agrees in the very next sentence. but to go back a minute#dean does have black-and-white thinking but it's not in the way people think it is#he doesn't even realize this about himself yet until the next season but to him 'monster' doesn't mean 'inhuman'#a 'monster' means 'killing people or being dangerous to innocents'#so yes humans can be monsters. in fact I think that's what his problem with max a few eps later is too.#and 'monsters' can be worthy of saving#sam here draws the line at killing a human because that would make them 'no better than he is'#but by even having this conversation they're also deciding about human lives who lives and who dies. so like!!!#and yeah that does not make them as bad as he (or really sue ann) is. because funnily enough later in this episode sam does actually#get sue ann killed. he does it in order to stop her from killing dean; which she is doing in order to save layla.#he is deciding who lives and who dies.#actually I'm coming back to these tags to add further on to them. because knowledge makes you god in this universe#if you know about the supernatural and about what it can do to people; you have a couple of options.#you can go out there; be a hunter; hunt some monsters; save some people#or you can decide not to do anything with your knowledge. with the possibility that; from your inaction; people could be harmed#and the thing is that both of these things means you're deciding who lives and who dies!!! either by taking action or by passivity#and we learn later that god himself has chosen a passive course of inaction. so either way. one way or another you'll be playing god!!!!

tags via Jo @humandisorderincarnatedean <3

HMMMMMMM

[soft-pine]

spn20rewatch: 1.18 something wicked

say your desk is covered with a pile of paperclips. something wicked is the magnet you drop in the middle and then they all stick to it; they're all connected.

it's all here. the parentification, the neglect, the way john treats dean which sam doesn't witness, the extreme likelihood that john was using his kids as bait, and the intentional, specific, glorious, lovely ways dean has specifically chosen not to be like his dad.

in the flashbacks, we see dean is in charge of feeding and looking after sam for (at least) three days in some random motel room with the shades drawn. he's not even supposed to go outside. he doesn't have a number for john, just the instruction that if john's not back by a certain time, he's supposed to call pastor jim.

we see john giving dean instructions and responsibility (and criticisms) which he's not giving to sam.

dean is at most 11 years old (ep takes place in 2006. dean says the case from when he was a kid was 16-17 years ago (1989/1990). john's journal places it in 1988; dean was 9)

crucially, even as an adult, dean barely talks to sam about what he remembers of the case when he was a kid. he lets go of little bits at a time and absolutely necessary to the case. but he does not want to process what happened. even when he's so torn up that he breaks down and explains what happened, he doesn't want to talk about it. in part, of course, because he's ashamed of failing to kill the shtriga. but also because dean keeps john's secrets (9.07). and even when he doesn't, sam is not who he tends to process with.

but it's deeply impactful to have an episode where we get to see how dean was treated as a child versus how he treats the kids he meets.

dean is so kind to children throughout season 1, from lucas in 1.03 to lily and charlie in 1.05 to michael here. there is something so great about the way he is both clear that the bad things aren't these kid's fault, while also understanding kids have agency and insight.

i know dean is torn up about using michael as bait for the shtriga but feels he doesn't have much of a choice in order to stop the thing. but the conversation he has with michael is so thorough it really gets me.

DEAN: This camera has night vision on it so we'll be able to see clear as day.... Are we good? SAM: A hair to the right... There, there. MICHAEL: What do I do? DEAN: Just stay under the covers. MICHAEL: And if it shows up? DEAN: We'll be right in the next room. We're gonna come in with guns. So, as soon as we do you roll off this bed and you crawl under it. MICHAEL: What if you shoot me? DEAN: We won't shoot you. We're good shots. We're not going to fire until you're clear ok? Have you heard a gunshot before? MICHAEL: Like in the movies? DEAN: It's gonna be a lot louder than in the movies. So I want you to stay under the bed, cover your ears, do not come out until we say so. You understand? DEAN: Michael, you sure you wanna do this? DEAN: You don't have to, it's ok, I won't be mad. MICHAEL: No I'm ok. Just don't shoot me. DEAN: We're not going to let anything happen to you. I promise.

what a specific contrast that is with

DEAN hesitates, terrified. As he does JOHN bursts through the front door, gun raised. JOHN: (Shouting) Get out of the way! DEAN ducks and JOHN shoots the shtriga multiple times with his hand gun.

something wicked is up there with monster at the end of the book for episode titles that'll make you crazy if you think about it too much.

some other thoughts are just, the first time i watched this scene i thought i was going to explode with love:

DEAN: Yeah well, first of all, I'm not going to open fire in a freakin' pediatrics ward.... Second, wouldn't have done any good, because the bastard's bullet proof unless he's chowing down on something. And third, I wasn't packing, which is probably a really good thing cause I probably would have just burned a clip in him on principle alone.

moral compass boy i would die for you a thousand times and get up and gladly do it again.

and nothing - i mean nothing - hits like dean's voice cracking over the "if it means anything sometimes i do too." like i could actually go insane.

also watching supernatural is how you fill up a computer disc with pictures of dean looking ever so beautiful. like. look at him!! ethereal!!

also also ilu microaggression michael. they should have brought you back in the finale, king.

[lambmotifz]

thinking about how dean’s monstrosity is about enjoying violence and torturing people (mostly men) & sam’s monstrosity is about being inherently unclean and his body being used as a tool for use and abuse by others

[silver-stake-through-the-heart]

As far as I'm concerned, changelings are the lowest of the low when it comes to monsters. Killing and eating adults is one thing, but abducting and eating kids? That's just plain wrong.

–Dean about Changelings, in The Men of Letters Bestiary

Mylings are the spirits of unwanted kids (and even babies) who were abandoned in the woods and left to die. (…) These spirits seek revenge against the adults who abandoned them, and who can blame them? But even after they get their revenge, they prey on any adult who has abandoned a child, whether that abandonment was physical or emotional. (…) Mylings are the only monsters I'm tempted to let slide. Kids whose parents left them to die? I can understand why they're so pissed.

–Dean about Mylings, in The Men of Letters Bestiary

[scoobydoodean]

Here to collect my anons! Yet again—my inbox is open, anon! What's the deal?

The only part of this I'd like to address further is the notion that Sam wanted to save Dean for Dean but Dean wanted to save Sam for Dean. Anon, what you are doing when you say that is you are taking Sam's speech from Season 9's The Purge and questioning absolutely nothing about the truth of what Sam said during that speech... and that speech is a steaming pile of bullshit. In fact, my post this is about called back to a portion of that speech to point out how Sam is really describing himself rather than Dean.

Here's Sam's little speech from 9.13 "The Purge" for reference:

Everything that happens in season 8 and 9 and before demonstrates that this is not true.

Courtney already pointed out that Sam specifically does The Trials instead of Dean based upon the fact that Sam says he wants to live, and Dean doesn't. Sam wants to show Dean to the light at the end of the tunnel (8.14).

The thing is, almost instantly (by 8.16) Sam starts saying he's going to die.

Why does Sam's bravado disappear so fast? Because Sam is in a terrible mental state, and has been since before the start of the season! Sam has been in the midst of a mental breakdown he's been refusing to acknowledge since the end of season 7! He didn't want Dean to die, so he insisted on doing The Trials to keep Dean from dying doing them! But then Sam starts to think HE'S going to die... that the light at the end of the tunnel he promised he could lead them both toward is a pipe dream!

Sam's mental state deteriorates further over the course of The Trials. Sam starts to think he SHOULD die, because he's not clean, and he gets this very broken idea in his head that The Trials can purify him so he can be clean now (8.21).

This is... a scene throwing up red flags left and right in terms of Sam's mental state! Sam literally thinks some ancient quest can fix the problems he has with himself—the shame he's carried with him since childhood as a result of childhood neglect... and he's going to reach a point by 8.23 that he wants to stop feeling that shame so badly and so desperately wants to believe The Trials can make him stop feeling that shame... that he realizes he wants The Trials to kill him! We are talking about a man who is suicidal and is going to use The Trials to kill himself.

Sam said "It's a suicide mission for you" in 8.14 and refused to let Dean do The Trials... but he himself ended up turning it into a suicide mission for himself!!!

Going back to 9.13 "The Purge", let's run through Sam's dialogue:

"I was ready to die." - The entire reason Sam insisted on doing The Trials instead of Dean was because he said Dean would treat them like a suicide mission. Meanwhile, Sam wanted to survive. He literally would not let Dean do The Trials because Dean was suicidal... but now he is shaming and guilting Dean for not letting Sam kill himself doing them.

"You didn't save me for me. You did it for you". This is an ugly reframing of events. Not only does Dean become increasingly worried for Sam's mental state over the course of the season, which explicitly culminates in the brother who said "I want to live and so should you" in 8.14 planning to kill himself to become clean.. . Sam also blames Dean for his mental state in 8.23! ...And why? Because Dean had friends. Sam specifically mentioned Cas and Benny and all but said he was going to commit suicide because Dean trusted them more than Sam. Dean is overtly 1) intervening to save a suicidal person 2) being guilted by his brother who is essentially blaming Dean for his imminent suicide. And NOW Sam is transforming the narrative again to make Dean the bad guy for saving him from committing suicide... the thing Sam insisted he was saving Dean from doing in 8.14.

"You can't stand the thought of being alone" - Sam says this... and yet if we think back... Dean literally did live without Sam between seasons 5 and 6. Dean was the one who told Sam to go back to Amelia. Sam, meanwhile, continuing to say he was going to leave when their business with Kevin was concluded, told Dean he had to choose between him and Benny—the only person Dean could have gone to when Sam left.

"You're certainly willing to do the sacrificing as long as you're not the one being hurt" - Said by Sam, who kept Dean from doing The Trials because Dean was going to die doing them, then promptly started planning to die doing them himself. Hmmm.

"No, Dean. I wouldn't." - Yeah... he'll do worse!

Edit: Also this.

I think the real difference between Dean's and Sam's codependency in s9 and s10 respectively is that Sam was willing to die and Dean couldn't handle that so he did something he knew Sam wouldn't have wanted in a million years. It was selfish. Sam's was more about recognizing that Dean didn't deserve to live a miserable isolated life. He was doing it for Dean, not for himself. He couldn't have known something that bad would happen. It was an unfortunate consequence, but Dean knew that letting an angel possess Sam would have consequences.

"Sam was willing to die"

(from 8x14)

(from 8x23)

"Dean couldn't handle that so he did something he knew Sam wouldn't have wanted in a million years."

(from 9x01)

(from 9x01 *note that isn't actually dean, it's gadreel pretending to be dean)

"Sam's was more about recognizing that Dean didn't deserve to live a miserable isolated life. He was doing it for Dean, not for himself."

(from 10x18)

"He couldn't have known something that bad would happen."

(from 10x18)

(from 10x21)

"Dean knew that letting an angel possess Sam would have consequences."

(from 9x01)

(from 9x01)

i just think perhaps you should rewatch the show, anon. also, @scoobydoodean this is me officially forwarding any further discussion to you.

[shadystranger]

I just think if sam was dying and needed a heart-lung transplant dean would go outside kill the first person he sees and gets him that heart-lung transplant

[shallowseeker]

BONUS: Sam’s “please don’t make me hunt Rowena” eyes:

SAM: WE DoN’T knoW it wAs HeR BbQ-iNg ppl!

DEAN: …so we’re leaning on the "spontaneous” in spontaneous combustion?

SAM: TBH, I thought we'd just trust her judgment and look the other way like how we’ve done with demons we’ve teamed up with...

He sooooooooo does not wanna fight her. And he agrees that her victims were rotten to the core, ehehe.

[kerryweaverlesbian]

Is Castiel??? Threatening to kill a child?? To avoid giving up an item they didn't even know they had and have no pressing use for???

It might be an adult, the picture it's very small but even still jesus christ??? Just give him the skeleton key it's fine. Cas goes off the rails so quickly when Dean isn't ethically regulating him lmao.

[scoobydoodean]

what is your opinion on people calling dean a heavy misogynist? i don’t agree personally but i feel like you could put my thoughts into better words

First, I have to chuckle a little at "heavy misogynist". Apparently, some people have begun to realize their fave is also guilty of misogyny crimes therefore they focus on making sure all of us know Sam is a light misogynist and Dean is a heavy misogynist. I just find that amusing.

This is a broad topic in a long show, so I won't endeavor to address every conceivable incidence of misogyny in the show I can think of. Instead, I'm going to create a few headings, at least one of which I think most criticism falls under.

Misogyny through the writing team

How Sam's misogyny gets a pass

Purity culture wank and Dean performing for Sam

How Dean actually treats women

Misogyny Through The Writing Team

First, Supernatural in of itself has issues with misogyny—as in, the writers of the show (including female writers) have issues with misogyny which they are happy to put on display semi-frequently. The show started in 2005, during a period of time where casual sexism was absolutely rampant on TV and no one thought anything about it. Female celebrities were regularly mocked and dragged on cable television in a way men simply weren't. They were called bitches and skanks and whores, and even "progressive" voices were inundated with casual misogyny and a fixation on purity culture (that largely applied to women only). Quite simply, I think fandom tends to be far too generous toward the writers, assuming certain things were "flaws" the writers intentionally wrote for the characters.

Put another way, there are some criticisms I prefer to level at the writing team rather than the characters, because what is written plainly reflects their ignorance in the real world rather than any intent to give Sam or Dean or any other character meaningful flaws—much less outright terrible ones that greatly harm their image. I'll give a few examples:

2.17 "Heart" makes me very uncomfortable as I sit here in 2024 and observe how Sam and Madison's romance develops. Me feeling that way does not mean the authorial intent of 2007 Sera Gamble was that I think to myself, "Man Sam comes off as uncomfortably rapey here." Hopelessly bad with women, perhaps—but not creepy.

In season 2, the writers begin to develop a running “joke” that Sam is afraid of not just clowns but also little people. The latter “joke” is (wisely) dropped fairly quickly. I have never criticized Sam for being afraid of little people, and I never will. It is readily apparent to me that this running "joke" reflects the ignorance of the writing team rather than an intent to give Sam meaningful or interesting flaws. Their intent was to use little people as the butt of a joke. I personally find this "joke" distasteful, and the idea of trying to take that and somehow "dunk" on Sam for the bigotry of the writers is more distasteful to me.

This is also how I feel about the running "joke" of a porn magazine and website (BAB) that solely features Asian women, that is put on display on multiple occasions during the show—first in 2.15 "Tall Tales", where the context is Gabriel infecting Sam's laptop with a virus from the website and making him believe Dean is responsible. BAB continues to make "Easter Egg" appearances in the show afterward. While often associated with Dean by fandom, the writers clearly think of BAB as a general, "funny" (it isn't), running gag with no more depth than "haha men like porn funny". An issue is stolen by a sentient teddy bear in 4.08 "Wishful Thinking". An issue is owned by the teenager who swapped bodies with Sam in 5.12 "Swap Meat". The Men of Letters also collected a considerable number of issues (8.17). I simply do not believe the writers thought for a single moment about BAB being a grossly racist gag. They most certainly did not write it as an intentional criticism of Dean from that perspective. It reflects nothing but their ignorance and racism here in the real world, and absolutely SHOULD be criticized from that REAL WORLD impact.

How Sam's misogyny largely gets a pass

One of the things I have not been able to stop noticing on this rewatch is Sam's issues with misogyny, and how often Sam's misogyny comes out in conflicts with Dean... starting from the very first episode of the show. Pretty much any time you get anything that feels like it might be a misogynist Dean or horn dog Dean moment... Sam either just has or is about to follow that up with some misogyny of his own.

In 1.01, right after entering Sam's apartment and meeting Jess, Dean mentions the Smurfs on Jess's shirt. We think to ourselves "Okay. A little misogynist... a little horn-dog Dean." Sam is happy to 1-Up that in two ways. First, Jess voices her intentions to go get dressed. Dean dismisses this, but while doing so, makes it clear he intends to leave the room with Sam, as he'd like to have a private conversation with Sam anyway. Sam objects, walking over to Jess and putting an arm around her, demanding Dean say whatever he needs to say right then and there. Maybe this would feel supportive if Jess wasn't in her underwear and hadn't just made it clear that now that the panic over a possible break-in is over, she'd really like to not be in her underwear in front of a stranger. But nope. By god she needs to stand there so Sam can prove a point about misogynist Dean! Second, Sam immediately (and I think quite erroneously) jumps to imply Dean is trying to cut Jess out of the conversation because she's... a woman? Or... something? He makes a big show of moving over Jess and standing beside her, saying anything Dean has to say, he can say in front of Jess. However, the moment Sam actually understands that Dean is here because John is missing on a hunting trip, he dismisses Jess to speak to Dean alone... because he's lying to her. By painting Dean erroneously with this "The men are talking" bullshit that had nothing to do with anything, Sam sets himself up to be viewed as a misogynist by his own framing of the situation and what it means to leave Jess out of a discussion. He also reveals his own alleged principles as a performative illusion. Despite being his intended life partner, Sam never intends to tell the woman he loves about his past as a hunter (he makes this clear later on the bridge). However, I think because Sam's actions usually co-occur with what gets called out more directly or more immediately recognized as misogyny from Dean (should have gotten him for the Smurf's comment, Sam!) Sam's misogyny often flies under the radar... and he's really... pretty bad.

I spoke here at length about how Sam tends to look down on women who interact with Dean (often before meeting them). There is absolutely an intersection with purity culture here and there's discussion in that thread about that as well, and whether this is a "2000s writers" issue or intentionally written flaws.

In 1.06, Sam cuts Dean off before Dean can accept an offered beer from Rebecca, but then as soon as Sam needs Rebecca out of the room, Sam asks her to not just bring them those beers... but also fix them sandwiches. Rebecca says, "What do you think this is, Hooters?" and Dean mumbles, "I wish" and we somehow lose sight of the fact that Sam literally just asked a woman to make him sandwiches which is possibly the number one misogynist man trope. Sam vaguely suggests Dean is a misogynist in 1.19 for nudging Sam to go on a date with Sarah Blake and possibly get information on the case, because that would be "using" her, but Sam wants to "use" Meg Masters in 1.22 and he wants to "use" Ruby to get what he wants, and when he said getting information from women was "Dean's job", he was also showing he was perfectly willing to use Dean and Sarah—he just doesn't want to get his hands dirty. It also comes to light in 1.19 that this is more about Sam's belief that he has to protect women from him, and Sarah herself ends up calling Sam antiquated for it.

I mentioned before that Sam doesn't plan to ever tell Jess who he is, and he makes the same plans with Amelia. Dean, meanwhile, confides in Cassie (it's what leads to their breakup) as well as Lisa.

I also have to mention... one of the funniest things I see deancrit samgirls in particular dig at time after time after time is Dean calling women "bitches". Never mind that Sam also calls women like Ruby and Bela bitches and calls a woman a bitch in front of Madison. Apparently none of these occurrences count because... *looks at notes* reasons. "Bitch" only counts as misogyny when it's Dean saying it. Also, let's not mention that Sam exclusively uses the word "bitch" to refer to women, while Dean also calls men and creatures bitches at different points so it isn't a gender specific insult for him.

Dean is definitely the "heavy" misogynist here... right? (I guess Sam is a "tall" misogynist instead).

Purity culture wank and Dean performing for Sam

Dean is commonly treated in fandom as if he's some kind of sex pest, and quite blatantly... he isn't one. Women almost always proposition Dean first (thejabberwock has sets on this here and here), but him asking people out also isn't inherently creepy in any way? Co-occurring with Sam's purity culture inundated judgements, we often see fandom's own as well, where Dean is some kind of sex pest because he... likes women? Or... because he has sex with consenting women who also want to have sex with him? Sometimes it's giving purity culture wank, sometimes it's given big radfem energy... but regardless, I sometimes see people talk about Dean like him so much as making eye contact with a woman is a violent sexual threat, and that's just laughable—as is denying the agency and autonomy of consenting women in general.

Even though it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, I'll also add that Dean... doesn't even actually have sex with the frequency that people talk about it? Dean has sex with Cassie—who was a long term partner of his in 1.13. He has sex with an actress in 2.18, and with Doublemint twins in 3.01. He has sex with a waitress 4.05. He plans to have sex with someone in 3.04, but turns her down when he realizes she's a prostitute who's working. This happens again in 10.07. I'm on season 4 of my rewatch and haven't been formally keeping up... but Dean is not actually having a lot of sex? We get implications he's been out partying a few times, and can maybe infer he scored, but we don't actually know.

I'm not a huge fan of performing Dean, in the sense that I think over the years I have seen it wildly overstated far too many times. But I do think Dean sometimes plays a character for Sam especially. Dean tells us this himself in 2.03 "Bloodlust" when confiding in Gordon. He never says so directly when it comes to the sexy sex guy doing sex persona, but his actions reveal him. One can think of plenty of examples of Dean saying horny stuff about women to Sam... but what about his actions?

How Dean actually treats women

Finally, there's how Dean actually treats women... and one would be very hard pressed to prove to me that Dean is sexist toward the women in his life. He's been close friends with multiple women and worked with women on hunts on multiple occasions and never once batted an eye. Jo in 2.06 is sometimes floated as an example, but it's actually discussed within the episode. Dean makes it very clear that he thinks women can do the job just fine. What he has a problem with is Jo's lack of experience and her romanticization of the job (especially during a period where Dean has fallen deeply out of love with the job himself). Everything we see as the series progresses supports Dean's assertion as truth. He's very good friends with Charlie, Jody, and Donna and doesn't go around excluding them on hunts while favoring men. That is not a thing that happens. While he initially tries to talk Claire out of the life (as he does everybody—this is not unique to women—see Adam for example) when she decides to hunt, he supports her regardless. There is nothing uniquely overprotective about how Dean treats women who hunt. End of. Dean has no illusions about traditional gender roles or any of that nonsense, jumping to clean dishes after dinner at Jody's and cooking breakfast for Lisa and Ben. (Our knowledge of Dean and the chores he does for his family already tell us this—but regardless). Even Demon Dean, an entity with no love for anyone and close to zero principles, targeted men who abuse and threaten women, and when Crowley ordered him to kill Lester's wife to fulfill the terms of Lester's demon deal, Demon Dean instead became so deeply annoyed with Lester's hypocrisy (he cheated on his wife first) and his assertion that it's different when men cheat, that he killed him and smiled while doing it.

So anyway, nope—I don't think Dean is a "heavy" misogynist.

[hexedwinchester]

I would say that neither of them are the moral compass but ok

hi moral-questioning noni,

Occassionally and if you squint really hard 🤣

Thanks for the chat!

[soft-pine]

spn20rewatch: 1.20 dead man's blood // cn: brief discussion of the finale and SA

okay oh boy here we go.

unfortunately, i cannot watch this episode without thinking about the finale. from the title to "once a vampire has your scent, it's for life" to jenny (here credited simply as "woman" (also she and dean literally do not interact at all. in 15.20 why does she say she has "dibs" on dean? sam is the one who wakes her up after she's been turned??)) and to the devastating added layers to

DEAN: Well what the hell do we do now? JOHN: You gotta find the nearest funeral home, that's what.

right so that's all terrible and gutting and i already talked about dean and vampires and john and 1.20 in my finale post and if you think about it for too long, you'll claw your eyes out. so let's think about other stuff.

we can talk about one of my favorite visual themes of john's character... being introduced as a thing in the dark watching sam and dean, only later revealed to be "reassuringly" their father.

this also occurs in 1.16 when john's waiting in their room. (the shot of john appearing and scaring dean is one of the most unhinged scenes to me)

we can talk about john being visibly shaken by elkins' death, similar to how he will react to caleb and pastor jim's deaths and we can remember that he never checked in on dean after 1.06 or 1.09 or 1.12.

we can talk about dean's face when john opens the fancy tool chest he had custom installed in his truck.

the "wow." the lips forming words he doesn't say aloud. keep in mind dean has been excited about free money and food all season. keep in mind john is about to tell sam that he spent both his and dean's college funds on ammo.

we can talk about how when john's pissed at sam for keeping demanding answers and pushing back, he takes it out on dean. who has been faithfully following orders without complaint mind you.

JOHN: (looks at Sam) Any more questions? SAM looks away and stays silent. JOHN: All right, let's get out of here, we're losing daylight. Hey, Dean why don't you touch up your car before you get rust? I wouldn't have given you the damn thing if I thought you were going to ruin it.

we can talk about luther saying "revenge isn't worth much if you end up dead."

we can talk about how dean is john's errand boy. both here and in 1.21, john sends dean off to get something while he and sam stay behind.

in 1.20, the conversation sam and john have is a tearful reconciliation, which john apologizing to sam for being more like a "drill sergeant" than a father, AND saying about sam going off to school, "all I could think about, my only thought was, that you were gonna be alone. vulnerable." (me queuing the part of 14.12 that's always playing on loop in my head: "dad would send me away when I really pissed him off")

we could talk about how when dean gets back with the dead man's blood he was sent fore, john doesn't even react to dean's silly little, "whew man, some heavy security to protect a bunch of dead guys," but just says, "get it?" (please god laugh. my babygirl is funny. he's FUNNY and SILLY! all he's ever known is hunting and stress and life or death situations and he's just trying to lighten it up a bit. please laugh, god, please!)

we could talk about, "you know what to do." and the wide-eyed hitchhiker routine layer. and the "you thinking what i'm thinking" layer. and and and

we could talk about kate assaulting jenny. and then assaulting dean the same way.

the dean and vampires and sexual assault theme that carries us literally to the end of the show will always make me want to chew glass.

so yeah we can talk about a bunch of really upsetting things with upsetting implications, parallels, and consequences.

but we can also talk about some truly lovely things!!

like dean telling the people the vampires had caged up that he was coming back to save them. and then doing it! "i told you I'd come back." oh my good boy!!

and we can talk about the cracks in dean and john's relationship that have been widening all season. and will continue to do so right up to and through 2.01.

in this episode that manifests as dean saying, "that means you too" when breaking up sam and john's fight. (that means you too that means you too that means you too GOD!)

and here:

JOHN: You are my children. I'm trying to keep you safe. DEAN: Dad, all due respect but, uh, that's a bunch of crap. JOHN: Excuse me? DEAN: You know what Sammy and I have been hunting. Hell you sent us on a few hunting trips yourself. You can't be that worried about keeping us safe.

I AM SO FULL OF LOVE I COULD EXPLODE!

dean's face is almost certainly still sore from kate's finger's here. his face probably still hurts from where she slapped him to the ground. he can probably still taste her breath. he can probably still feel the prickles on the back of his neck from when he had to hunch over the car's engine and keep his back to the woods and the noise even as he knew something was hunting him. he probably still remembers wondering, each moment that kate toyed with him, what was taking john so long to shoot her.

"you can't be that worried about keeping us safe."

[incesthemes]

i don't think supernatural is good for my health.

[silver-stake-through-the-heart]

Since @what-the-fuck-is-supernatural pointed it out in this post...

Thee true parallel between 7x03 - The Girl Next Door and 7x13 - The Slice Girls

[just-a-ghost00]

Who is your divine counterpart?

Please if you know the original artist who made these images, can you tell me so I can quote them. Thank you <3

Group 1

Celebrity look alikes - Mamamoo's Hwasa, BTS Suga, Joe Anoa'i aka Roman Reigns, Jonathan Good aka Dean Ambrose / Jon Moxley

Let me tell you group 1, the one thing all these people have in common : they are absolute dorks and I love them to death. To analyze this a bit further, you will notice that there are more masculine figures than feminine. Though Suga is pretty balanced in both energies. Hwasa as well can be pretty masculine in her own way. They also have quite long hair, especially the guys. All of them have rather dark hair and dark eyes. Even if Jon's hair can be a bit lighter and his eyes are somewhat blue, they tend to look dark as well. We have different cultural backgrounds being represented : Samoa for Joe, South Korea for Hwasa and Suga and Ohio for Jon. All of them are quite athletic and a little shy around strangers. However with the ones they love they go all out. So those could be traits of your person. Let's investigate further. Most of them are mutable signs (Suga Pisces, Roman Gemini, Dean Sagittarius).

Physical traits - Hierophant, Magician, King of pentacles

One thing that is striking about their appearance is how strong and trustworthy they look. They have a regal air to them that intimidates people. They appear as quite closed off upon first sight. They also look smart and very attractive. There's a lot of Venusian qualities to this person. They dress well, they smell good, they are naturally beautiful but they also take really good care of their body. They have a strong body structure. The feminines tend to be curvy. The masculines tend to have broad shoulders and defined arms. Physically, they give off very serious vibes. They may look uptight or have that so called RBF (though I don't like that term that much). All these cards together make me think that they look unapproachable and that they would hex the shit out of you if you ever cross them. Think of Minerva McGonagall.

Personality traits - The Explorer, The revolutionary, Get curious

Your counterpart is someone that is very open minded and curious. They have a thirst for knowledge and like to challenge themselves. They are incredibly passionate and bold, self confident, adventurous. They tend to follow their inner compass and morals even though it may get them in trouble. They are not afraid of being criticized or being alone. They are ambitious and they know the path to success can be a lonely road. They are a rebel at heart and a free spirit. They might not be as much into traditions as other people in their family or in their business field. This person likes to innovate and go into unknown territories. Differences do not scare them. They can get along with anyone as long as they have a heart and an open mind. They like to create, to find new ways to do things. They are a natural born leader. They can be stubborn, sometimes arrogant or hard to deal with. They have strong morals and tend to be set in their ways. When they have an idea in mind, they are unstoppable. They have a broad imagination, a knack for charming and talking their way out of situations. They can be a bit kinky. They are willing to shift their perspective in order to understand people better. They can be pretty understanding and adaptable.

Possible jobs / hobbies - Strength, Reclaim, White Numen, Underworld, King of pentacles, The Sage

Your counterpart could work in any job requiring strength, creativity, stability, patience and resourcefulness, a certain degree of competitive spirit. So think about fitness, professional level sports, being a member of a big company, being an artist, working freelance in any field. Looking at the tarot cards it does give me the feeling that this person is working alone most of the time. They have a lot of control over their career and the direction they want to go in. So if they work in a company, they would most definitely occupy an important position. This person likes to fight. But their fight seems to be more against their own demons. They enjoy going to the gym, taking care of their body, improving their health and spirituality. They like to learn especially if it can benefit their career in any way. They are the type to pick up a new skill because it would benefit a project and avoid implying other people. They take pride in doing things on their own. This person could be into martial arts /combat sports like boxing, wrestling, taekwondo, judo, karate and so on. They could be a teacher. If not, I get a feeling that they are often looked up to by their peers. This person could have two jobs : one they do publicly/during day and one that is more private / during night. They take interest in unconventional forms of creativity or occupations, things that may be seen as shady / dark by most people. It could be occult arts, horror movies, hardcore porn and stuff like that.

Letters and confirmation signs : A I O G B B K G E O P X W L H -> leo, boogie, pookie, bio(logy), geo(graphy), wale, Hola, Ali, babe, Babi, Kobe, whole, egg, Exo, box, boob, big, philo(sophy), Phil, Paolo, hope, gage, phobia, book, pale, Paige, page, pole, beg, bake, peak, beak, gig

Group 2

Celebrity look alikes - Liv Tyler as Arwen, Hwasa, Jessi and Kai from GazettE

Okay let's analyze what we got here. Many of these celebrities are of Asian descent. They are mostly feminine. We can note a common thread in the fact that all of them have rather long hair and very intense gaze. All of these celebrities are intense people that are not afraid to go after their dreams and to speak their mind. The feminines tend to have very full and beautiful lips. All of them have a very alluring aura. For those of you who might not know all of these celebrities, we have from left to right and top to bottom : Liv Tyler who played Arwen in LOTR, Mamamoo's Hwasa, Kpop solo artist Jessi and Kai, drummer of the Visual Kei band GazettE. Most of these celebrities are artists and they are fixed signs (Hwasa Leo, Jessi Aquarius, Kai Scorpio).

Physical traits - 3 of cups, Queen of cups, 9 of cups

This person is very feminine in their appearance, soft, flowy, welcoming. They appear as very nurturing. They have a motherlike presence to them that instantly makes people at ease. They may look aloof or dreamy. They are pretty cheerful and optimistic. So they probably are the kind to be smiling a lot. They have sparkles in their eyes and a very childlike look to them. So round cheeks, very bright, big and round eyes. They could be a bit petite. They are more on the curvier side. They could like to wear hats or head bands and stuff like that. Jewelry is also a key feature of their look. They tend to wear oversized cloathes or at least comfortable clothes. They like to feel good in their shoes so they would wear clothes that makes them feel the best first, even if it might shock people. Think about Hwasa and her "no bra scandal". In many ways this person could look like a doll to others. They appear as very kind and friendly. There is something about their appearance that is very pure and sweet. So they would prefer simple clothes over classy clothes, or maybe they like to dress like the younger generations. They basically go with the flow. They could have a very particular way of walking. One that makes them look like they could slither their way through things. They are very flexible and they have a lot of meat.

Personality traits - Get curious, destruction, trust

This person is really curious and open minded, they have a happy go lucky type energy but their mind can often times get the best of them. They may tend to compare themselves to others a lot or to overthink. They may struggle with mental health issues. They are a trust worthy peron and they are also faithful. They like to learn and be mentally stimulated, as it keeps their mind busy. This person can be very observant and smart. They have very strong transformative abilities. Though they know a lot of lows, they always find a way to come back stronger and make the best out of any challenge they are going through. They are incredibly resilient and strong minded. They are very opinionated.

Jobs and hobbies - Black Numen, The Observer, Strength, The Wildling, Lovers, Power

Your counterpart's job involves transmuting knowledge, resilience, communication and helping people find their truth. So this could be teaching, coaching, anything related to spirituality or psychology. This person is definitely into divination arts such as chiromancy, tarot, palm reading. They could be into martial arts and reading. Singing could also be something that they enjoy. That or flirting lmao They love to talk. Maybe they have a podcast or something. They are pretty creative so really it could be anything. They like to dig deep and investigate. So they might enjoy TV series about crimes or psychology, podcasts that are empowering. They may enjoy working out for some. But I have a feeling like for some, intimacy could be a way for this person to relax. They view bedroom activities as a hobby lmao

Letters and confirmation signs :

O D A B L Y V W M V G G Z Y C -> YMCA, yoga, Yoda, bald, Zac, May, vocal, wavy, God, gay, BL, Cody, Maggy, dog, doggy

Group 3

Celebrity look alikes - Stray Kids Seo Changbin, Jonathan Good aka Dean Ambrose, Mark Calaway aka The Undertaker, Kate Beckinsale as Anna Valerius

These people are super cheeky. They may be very intimidating (I mean we got The Undertaker here) but they are huge softies. All of them are rather masculine in their energy. All of them have hair that tends to get wavy. We are looking at people who have rather dark hair. Some of them have dark grey/green eyes. No matter the eye color they tend to have a fierce gaze and dress in darker colors. All of them are fit and quite tall. They have a strong body and a strong mindset. They tend to be lone wolves and have a hard time asking for help. They would do anything for the people they love. All of them are fire signs (Kate and Changbin are Leos, Jon is a Sagittarius and Mark is an Aries). All of them have strong morals and don't hesitate to speak their truth.

Physical traits - The Sun, 2 of swords, 4 of wands

They have freckles and their skin tends to be tanned. Their skin is glowy. They have a balanced body figure and are pretty agile. They look sturdy, strong, reliable. People feel at home next to them. So they can definitely have big arms that give the best cuddles, a very comfortable chest to lay your head on. They appear very outgoing and bright. They look like they shine. They are definitely attractive. Their beauty is one that is popular, conventional, a bit trendy. So in terms of fashion, this person would follow the trends of people their age or people of the same culture. Their fashion style can also be quite versatile. They look like they are husband/wife material. What is and isn't husband/wife material varies on people. But usually these terms are used for someone that looks like they would make you feel safe and loved, would take good care of you and match your expectations of a partner. So this person definitely appears as trustworthy.

Personality traits - Manifest, The Alchemist, Movement

Your counterpart is horny most of the time. They have a lot of drive and passion. They are a good manifestor and a bit of a trickster. They can turn anything to gold. They are very crafty and good with their hands. They are quite stubborn but also resilient. They are very adaptable and can handle difficult situations pretty well. They are not afraid of challenges and to try their hands on different things. They are very skilled and witty. They're also very smart and have a lot of healing abilities. Since they've been through a lot, they can spot negative patterns pretty well and find creative ways to counter them. They tend to be harsh on themselves. They have a lot of venom that they tend to repress. This person is likely to have anger issues. They can't stay still. Their mind is constantly working. They can anticipate a lot of things and see into the future. They can take a new idea and make it fit to their own style, sometimes making it ten times better than the original one. They have a very sexy personality. People tend to be drawn to their mind.

Jobs and hobbies - page of pentacles, surrender, knight of pentacles, reclaim, 3 of pentacles, the void

I definitely see this person sharing their knowledge with others and helping younger people reach their goals. They could also be attending college. Some of them may be involved in spiritual and religious practices. They could be spending a lot of time giving to their community, doing humanitarian work, going to Church or any place of cult. For some of you, your counterpart may have decided to change their career and gave up their position to go back to school. They could also be into anything that is related to the body, appearances, learning and sharing. So fitness, modeling, dancing. They could be into meditation or just spending time in nature, far from people to recharge their batteries. They could be into hunting, fishing, camping, gardening, farming. This person may be going through a spiritual awakening and leaving behind hold habits or patterns to live a healthier life. So if they were struggling with addictions or their body image, for instance, they've decided to heal that part of themself and work on it. They could also be a farmer for some of you.

Letters and confirmation signs :

Y G R H E C B P I F A R S L E -> Paris, Fabrice, chase, cars, bars, lace, years, sale, RBF, fly, air, rice, chief, gears, biceps, abs, selfie, selca, fears, far, celeb, Alice, clear, Claire

[chiisana-sukima]

hi so what qualities do you think dean admires about sam and vice versa would like to know your thoughts

Love your meta btw as a new spn fan

Hi Nonny, tysm for the ask!

I haven't thought a ton about this question prior to now, so I'm interested in other people's opinions too if they want to add them on reblog. But it seems to me that the 'what does Dean admire about Sam' half of the question is pretty easily answered, because Dean isn't shy with his praise of Sam in canon.

He's also not shy with his criticism, of course, and I think this is because some of the things he admires most about Sam are the same things that are dangerous to him personally. My favorite recap is in the finale:

And there's this from 15.11:

Dean says similar things in other episodes, going way back to 1.11, which the finale speech is practically a word for word recap of:

I think Dean legitimately believes all this; that Sam is better than him in practically every way-- smarter, more compassionate, more optimistic, possessed of a better moral compass (usually), more skilled in a variety of ways, etc. And especially that Sam is healthier than him; more of a complete, autonomous human being who would be fully able to live a "normal" life if circumstances were right, whereas he, Dean, would not be. By "you're stronger than me" (which he also tells Sam before he goes to Hell in s3) he means "capable of independence".

I have decidedly ambivalent feelings about the "Dean is Sam's Parent" reading of spn, but I do think this is a very parental type of admiration; both because of the 'I'm proud' piece and because 'I raised you to be able to outlive me' is maybe a parent's primary responsibility second only to unconditional love. And I think it's realistic and sympathetic that Dean admires these traits in Sam while simultaneously fighting tooth and nail to undermine Sam ever actually becoming fully independent as long as Dean's alive (and until the finale, even afterwards). "You're better than me; don't leave me" is honestly extremely relatable.

R.e. the 'what does Sam admire in Dean' part of the question, I think that's more complicated to explain, and I'm especially interested in what other fans think about this part. I think obviously if someone asked Sam what he admires in Dean, he'd be able to run off a list of traits. And he does sometimes mention traits he finds admirable in Dean, like in 8.14 where he says "You're not a grunt, Dean. You're a genius" and says Dean is a better hunter than either himself or their father.

But for the core of what I think Sam feels about Dean that's in the same, idk, synonym group ig, as 'admiration', I don't think 'admires' really covers it very well. It's almost more like worships. He thinks, quite simply, that Dean is good. And since he thinks that he, Sam, is fundamentally not good, he sees Dean as the final arbiter of, well, everything. Sam thinks Sam could never go on a quest like Galahad, but although it's never specifically mentioned, I think its pretty clear he believes Dean could.

I think Sam feels about Dean the way I think deeply religious people--not the kind that mouth platitudes but the kind that have really struggled with and thought long and hard about their faith--feel about God. He knows Dean makes mistakes, he knows Dean is deeply fucked up in many ways, he yells at and argues with Dean and goes behind Dean's back and lies to him and etc, all because he does truly understand that Dean's decisions are, on a practical level, sometimes honestly pretty messed up. But he also has an unshakable faith that where he, Sam, might make bad choices because he's bad, Dean will struggle but ultimately always eventually choose correctly, even if one of the steps along the way is chopping Sam's head off with Death's scythe. Because Dean is good. Sam fans (myself included) will look back on the panic room and think "wow Dean sure was living up to the family-is-hell premise on that one", but Sam will look back on it and think "he saved me".