#dean and chuck

[cascigarette]

your father who is god who is your father

[soft-pine]

spn20rewatch: 2.13 houses of the holy // cn brief discussion of child abuse and catholicism, brief finale mention

hello the concept of angels - and michael specifically! my god does this episode slap when taken in context of the following seasons.

also just a note, but priests are mandated reporters of child abuse in rhode island so FUCK YOU father gregory! but a catholic priest being secretive and shitty about child abuse and therefore causing even more people to be harmed, what else is new.

but anyway, something that has fascinated me for a long time is the parallel between gloria seeing the spirit for father gregory and dean encountering cas in 4.01.

i did a thread on this on twitter with actual video comparisons a while ago. but basically, the physical similarity follows a very similar pattern. there's static and electricity crackling. the tv turns itself back on after they both turn it off. the room begins to shake, items fall and break. they're both terrified. dean, of course, experiences much of this twice (in the gas station and hotel room).

even the first appearance of father gregory and cas in the barn are similar - a dark figure walking through a doorway, haloed by light.

but the messaging they both receive is also deeply similar. god willed it because they have a task to do.

GLORIA: Because it was God's will.... . But what I did was very important. I helped him smite an evil man.

//

CASTIEL: Because God commanded it. Because we have work for you.

and what does god (or father gregory) use as motivation for this task? guilt. father gregory reaches out to people he describes as needing "redemption."

GLORIA: I was chosen. For redemption.

and what does cas see in dean the moment he meets him?

CASTIEL: What's the matter? You don't think you deserve to be saved?

but of course in both these cases neither gloria nor dean are being given real redemption (whether they need it or not), their bodies are still being manipulated and used by beings with enough power to be controlling and not enough principle to recognize what they're doing is wrong.

and the parallels don't stop there. dean's speech to sam in 2.13 is echoed again in 4.02

2.13

DEAN: Exactly. With our own eyes. That's hard proof, okay? But in all this time I have never seen anything that looks like an angel. And don't you think that if they existed that we would have crossed paths with them? Or at least know someone that crossed paths with them?

4.02

DEAN: Don't you think that if angels were real, that some hunter somewhere would have seen one... at some point... ever?

this episode also has one of my favorite dean speeches!

DEAN: There's no higher power, there's no God. I mean, there's just chaos, and violence, and random unpredictable evil that - that comes out of nowhere and rips you to shreds.

i hold very dearly in my heart that dean is an atheist because he cares so deeply about the whole world that he cannot imagine powerful beings who sit by and do nothing. i will have so much more to say on this as we encounter more of those powerful beings - and dean's rage and disappointment with them. but oh my GOD I LOVE DEAN I LOVE HIM I LOVE HIM!!! i love you most caring human being boy! i love you!

and im not a chuck won truther but damn they really did impale that guy....

[shallowseeker]

miriam mentions a "becky" who takes and breaks things, and it's interesting that she mentions this after the angels have likely learned about chuck being god, and it's kind of funny becky shares the same name as someone who dated chuck... so when miriam calls dean "becky" she accidentally lands on the fact that chuck wants to be with dean.

Oh, yissss. This is a line of thought I really favor and that I think (?) I’ve also keyed in on in a couple of places.

Great minds. :-D We love a good Becky parallel. When Miriam fabricates a college backstory and calls Dean "Becky," she’s (knowing or unknowingly) hinting at the dynamic between Dean and Chuck—

Chuck’s desire to control Dean’s story, to possess and shape him like a writer with his favorite character.

[jensensitive]

i wonder why they changed 12x18 from dean killing moloch to sam killing him, but also I bet it was just a jared and jensen thing

i really wish they would not just randomly change important elements of the story, it makes it so much harder to read coherently. Anyway this episode is sooo interesting, I haven't watched it in a while. For whatever reason I always thought the last scene where sam muses about how they're not the kind of people someone writes about dumb, considering chuck, but looking back on it, I think the whole episode is more in conversation w the idea of chuck and their lives as a story than I thought.

On first glance the whole episode seems so throwaway, but I think that's just because it's commenting so much on the idea of sam and dean (mostly dean lbr) as characters in a story. And I think the element of dean killing the god, who sees him as nothing more than meat to be sacrificed, is a fantastic fore cursor to 15x19 given that 12x19 'the future' is the next episode-- the unborn baby god that will usurp chuck's influence as author over dean, without dean having to kill him because that's not who he is, that's just who chuck wanted him to be. It's like establishing what the story of dean is-- including sleeping with random waitresses that look like his mom in an episode where we repeatedly see a picture of young dean and mary so thanks for that-- before breaking it down. Like that being the last time he sleeps with anyone in the show, and that being the last time the colt is used. Also wrt the chuck reading, it's interesting to think about how within this story, Dean sleeping with the waitress is part of the structure of the story to establish, along with the beginning with the kids in the woods all making out, the red herring when Sam posits the monster to be the god Pan, affecting people to bone until he'd eat them, instead of a man in a mask with a god on a leash. There's probably a lot more here than I had realised, like the masks worn to perpetuate generational cycles of violence. The parallel in the episode between the family and the winchesters that felt so heavy handed at first looks less stale when you see it as less a genuine commentary on sam and dean's lives and more chuck himself's heavy handed writing a la 15x05, but either way it's an interesting episode.

[tothewheel]

chuck and dean btw

[strawlessandbraless]

Kinda hilarious that this was all Chuck’s fault

Like, he never intended to keep bringing back the angel with a crack in his chassis, but any time Cas died, Dean would become inconsolable and go entirely off script

So Chuck had no choice but to resurrect the angel in order to get Dean to play his role

Their love is what foiled God’s plan, in every way that matters

[fandom-addict404]

What casual fans think SPN is about: fighting monsters

What real fans think SPN is about: free will and making your life yours

[jesterofalltrades]

Every now and then I think about how the fandom used to call Cas gods favorite angel then in the last season it was relived that Chuck actually hated Cas but kept having to bring him back because Dean was too depressed to go along with the story without him.

And the writers want us to think that Dean isn’t in gay love with Cas.

[alfalfapie]

my new Destiel theory: Dean couldn't say I love you not because of his own denial of the fact but because Chuck refused to write it like Chuck's weird psycho-sexual obsession with Dean made him so twisted that rather than allow his character to follow a natural arc that the character itself wanted to follow (see s8 rewrite of "I love you" into "I need you"), he just kept dodging it through increasingly ridiculous and pathetic ploys. he couldn't bear to watch Dean choose free will (Cas) over his heavenly ordained plan, so he just kept fucking with their relationship (see every divorce/widower arc, and all the other will they/won't they shit). really puts Cas's "What's real? We are." into context. like they are, in fact, the only real thing, despite Chuck's attempts to dismantle their relationship.

[bucky-bucky-bucky-bucky]

I saw this post and had to make one for Destiel

[soft-pine]

hiiii!!! how are you? :))

i’ve seen you mention a few times in the past that you’re not really a chuck won theorist, so i’m curious (1) what about it doesn’t work for you? and (2) what do you think about the finale and even spnwin?

hi!! aw it's so nice to get an ask!

1) okay so like i REALLY GET chuck won! like i GET IT!!! and i absolutely see why it's so popular and compelling. i feel like my issues with it stem from two things: 1. who my spn community was and 2. narrative reasons.

like to be really transparent, my spn fandom experience was mostly on twitter. and on twitter there was a VERY BIG chuck won theorist who was also a really big gay-dean anti. and they harassed a young friend of mine's fics and accounts and would go on rants about gay-dean people. so my community mostly ended up being people ... who didn't vibe with that... and therefore ended up mostly not being chuck won people. (that person is on tumblr too but i haven't ever seen a chuck won moot reblog from them which is nice. and also when they were doing all this harassing, they hadn't even seen the whole god danged show!)

narratively i'm kinda mixed. i think chuck won has some GREAT potential for fix-it's (both like canon continuation????!!!!! and fics!) and i think there's lots of fun puzzle pieces to put together to make it really compelling and supported by the text! like i really do think chuck won is maybe one of the simplest and best premises for that stuff. HOWEVER, i can't get over dean saying "see, that's not who i am" and not killing chuck in 15.19. like THAT MEANS THE FUCKING WORLD TO ME!!!!! and i get that even in chuck won, maybe killing chuck then wouldn't have done anything and like idk i get there can be layers. but like choosing to beat god by just being the ultimate punching bag (as he's always treated you) until he's expended all his hate and all his power taking it out on you and then just walking away.... THAT FUCKING SLAPS IM SORRY!!! i am gobbling it up and up! also i think another part of why i'm not so into chuck won is that i'm not really a jack girlie so i don't /personally/ find his 15.19 actions particularly ooc. but also like... if the finale and spnwin is all the continuation we get, i feel like there is something in dean being a being with autonomy booking it around the universes and cas being alive and in heaven. like idk that's crumbs but like if this is all the canon we'll get, i'd rather not think chuck is still in control. if that makes sense? so how i feel really depends on if i'm in fix-it or make-the-best-of-it mode.

2) well i hate the finale lmao! a long time ago i described myself as like not a chuck won truther but a john won truther... which idk is also really sad... but i think one of the most important narrative through lines in spn is dean managing the trauma john left him with. and in a very real sense the finale is a categorically a Tragedy when seen from that lens. and that is the kind of fix-it that i /personally/ find the most compelling (i.e. the mundane rather than the cosmic) so that is why i lean in that direction and my fics are fix-its to that tragedy and that story. like unfortunately, i want to write the whole finale off but dean's speech is just too real to me, i just can't. i want to and i can't :( (i wrote more about it here...) so yeah, spn, to me, is the tragedy of growing up closeted and abused and parentified. so the fact that the finale echoes 3.16 and is like Yes those things are real and they will Kill You... makes me want to dig in! like it's awful!! they shouldn't have ended it like that but idk maybe i'm crazy but i feel like - to me - there is some validation in the way it just Is a Tragedy (even if it is NOT framed like that at all and that episode is crazy bad and the lighting is insane and they play carry on my wayward son twice in a row). i hope that makes some sense??

2.1) i really enjoyed spnwin when it was airing!! it was the first time i had gotten to be in spn fandom with new eps coming out and i felt like i was constantly nauseated and worried and exuberant and insane and it was great i miss it! i got really annoyed by all the john takes i was seeing to be fair. i LOVED carlos so much! i think the parallels (intentional and not) for dean and mary and deancas are all delicious!!!! but also sadly multiverses are a big ick for me and i was really really disappointed they didn't like properly resurrect dean though i LOVE that he IMMEDIATELY broke the rules and dipped right the fuck out of heaven. but again, i'm a mundane guy, i don't care as much about dean being like a semi-divine universe hopping being (or w/e edlund said i dont recall). i want him alive on earth eating a grilled cheese with tomato soup in his kitchen that he has set up just right. BUT i did love seeing him and hearing him and i would watch ten million seasons of a show even if it just had three seconds of dean's voice in every episode so there's that. i also am a big Deans-only-grow-beards-when-they're-highly-stressed theorist so the beard made me sad but i loved his dress up! and i LOVED the vibe of the car on a foggy road at the end of the first ep. i DID NOT like the akrida people talking about needing to kill him (HE HAS SUFFERED ENOUGH!!) and i DID NOT LIKE him being trapped in the void or w/e for a long time cause like i know he was in there worrying he failed and everyone would die and no version of his parents could be happy and i swear i cannot take that shit. but dean saving his parents who are younger than him is DELICIOUS I AM FEASTING!!! and i have evil fic ideas about spnwin that i should actually write sometime

thanks for the ask! sorry for the novels! hope they're coherent enough!! <3

[blackmetalbats]

silly little supernatural people love these thingies so i made a few last one is a little treat mostly for me because i love them lol

[deancasforcutie]

🫵 That’s You!!

[smollkittykat]

"You guys, you're not in this story." God said.

"Yeah, well. We're making it up as we go." Castiel replied.

And hate grew within God towards the angel. It was made to follow each and every one of his orders. This, this childish defiance, it's for humans.

God looked towards the Michael sword next to the angel, and the human looked at the angel like it was something worth being worshipped.

It wasn't. And the hate within God festered as his gaze shifted back to Castiel.

What a broken thing.

[sunflowernovak]

and here are the gays

[strawlessandbraless]

*Cas blatantly checking out Dean* nice work 👍