#dbda character analysis

[shaylogic]

Charles, within a few hours of meeting Edwin: I'd love to move in with you and start a business together

Charles, within a few hours of meeting Crystal: Hi! Would you like to see my parents?

Charles, love, I'm begging you to slow down

You absolute u-hauling lesbian

[bluebugjay]

So when they're solving the Devlin murders and Charles says 'don't yell at her cause you're not the all knowing expert on everything' and then when Charles gets stuck in the loop and Edwin immediately admits 'he's right, I don't know everything' and then in the next scene Edwin says it took Charles years to learn how to use his backpack so he has no chance being able to use it, I think it proves Edwin doesn't actually think he knows everything. Sure he's stubborn and a control freak and he likes things done in a particular way but I don't think he really acts like a know-it-all.

And when you factor in that scene with Despair where he says he doesn't have his books as an answer for not knowing where he is/ who Despair is, it seems like knowing things, reading, writing things (everything) down is something he does to cope. He doesn't like lacking control or knowledge so he learn and he collects and he knows. He's the brains not the brawn, he can't defend himself or Charles physically but he can with his knowledge - we even see it with the museum ghost in episode one, when Charles is pinned to the ground by the ghost, Edwin doesn't rush to push him off or fight, he finds the spell book, casts the spell and saves Charles that way. And in the Devlin episode when he's explaining the loop and the stone tape theory, he berates Charles on not reading the books around the office but he doesn't show off that he himself has. I think it's more that to Edwin having knowledge is a shield, it's his protection and seeing Charles not have that same shield feels the same as how Charles feels trying to teach Edwin to throw a punch in the first episode. They're both just trying to protect the other in their own ways.

So I think Charles saying that, was maybe more of a reflection on how he seems himself, that Edwin is the clever one and he's just the one who acts impulsively and does 'stupid things' like he says when he possesses Esther. I think this is implied when he refers to 'your way' and 'my way', Edwin's way being the thought out way with theories and backed up by research and logic, and Charles' way being get straight to the source with no plan and use aggression. And obviously he's so much more than that, and Edwin believes this too but Charles was in such a vulnerable state it makes sense he'd let other insecurities of his slip too.

[perseidlion]

I like to think that if Edwin had lived, he would have quietly embraced his sexuality. I love how in the show that the anguish Edwin feels is more about being known on a deeper level, and that his affection is focused on his best friend rather than struggling with his sexuality. I think Edwin has known for a long time that he was gay, even if he didn't acknowledge it or put words to it.

We think of Edwin and the time he came from as pretty buttoned-up and therefore closeted. But until the modern era, it was actually one of the freer times for queer people in London. It was more about scandals with married men or high-up people having affairs than your average man going to an underground club or having a lover on the side. This was at the same time as the Weimar Republic in Germany where queer people were living openly. It was one of those periods in history where queer rights took several steps forward and then were forced backward.

I think Edwin is uptight because that's a way of asserting control over a life where he's had very little rather than a classic closet-case. He had to shrink himself so much in Hell. The demon chasing him was all about not drawing attention to himself lest he be destroyed. It was the horrific personification of the fear of being known.

We see him start to get over that by the end of season 1. He's confessed to Charles. He's started flirting back with the Cat King. He was uncomfortable with Monty's affections not because he was a boy, but because he didn't feel that way about him.

So I like to picture the Edwin Payne who lived as having a rich social life with his favourite underground clubs and subtle flirtations. And I imagine he would have fallen in love (probably more than once) and maybe settled into the life of a 'bachelor' with a long-time lover. Or perhaps he'd find a woman who the arrangement benefitted as well and married her.

Maybe he got sent to the trenches of WWI (almost certainly, given his age) and maybe he loved and lost someone there.

In any case, I prefer this headcanon over him being closeted and unsure of himself. I prefer to imagine him not as a cliche closeted man from the past, but as someone who just never got a chance to shine and really know himself.

[alltimefail]

Okay so I have more thoughts on Dead Boy Detectives but this is less about scene analysis and more about my own personal interpretation of Charles as I truly believe Charles' inability to fully "reciprocate" Edwin's feelings is less about accepting his sexuality/lack of awareness about his sexuality and more about feeling unworthy of being on the receiving end of Edwin's love (and about bad timing - them being in an afterlife or eternal suffering situation on the literal stairs of hell, but I digress lol). This would explain, pretty seamlessly, why he seems to seek out fleeting or "fun" romances and flirtations. It would also explain why, immediately following the confession, there are micro-changes, blink-and-you'll-miss-it differences in Charles' behaviors and expressions. It's clear that our boy is reflecting, and he meant it when he said he intended to "figure out what the rest means..." even if it takes him forever (and I doubt it will, but again... I digress). This is why calling his reassurances to Edwin on the staircase a "rejection" and putting Charles in a box as default-straight is a complete disservice to his character, to the writers, to the queer brilliance that rings beautifully in every facet of this show, and to Jayden Revri who is an exceptional actor with a palpable, deep love and reverence for the character he's portraying.

As a repressed PTSD bisexual™️ myself, I can't help but connect Charles' history with abuse alongside his poor perception of self, people-pleasing tendencies, and his quickness to stifle and repress his own feelings and desires to his fear of being a "bad person." It would not surprise me if Charles would fear the possibility that he is capable of taking something fragile, beautiful, raw, and vulnerable (Edwin's love) and destroy it in the way his father did.

Charles has always loved fully and without caution; I would even say he loves recklessly at times, throwing himself in front of danger, even to his own detriment. But has anyone fully loved him back in the way he loves? Charles has always loved Edwin, but did he ever allow himself to humor the idea that Edwin might just love him back?

It's evident that Charles had very little kindness in his life. Charles' friends were conditional at best and violent/abusive at their worst, his father was a monster, and his mother (who, in all fairness, was also a victim of abuse) was quiet and complicit in the abuse Charles received from his father. His entire afterlife is intrinsically connected to Edwin's - his entire existence, and Edwin's entire existence, are so closely entwined to one another that to "screw up" the delicate balance they've struck would be more than unfortunate - it would be earth-shattering, a loss like no other. Charles is impulsive, but he is not careless...quite the opposite, actually. I truly think whether or not he's attracted to men is not the issue; it wouldn't surprise me if, at the very least, Charles is aware he is attracted to people regardless of gender and just doesn't have the language to put a label to that sensation yet (he might have never been compelled to put a label on it, frankly). The issue is that Charles is unsure if he is deserving of someone not just loving him, but being in love with him... especially when it's coming from someone he thinks is the best person in the world, the most important person to him, the only person he would deny heavy and defy hell for.

Honestly Charles might even already know he has feelings toward Edwin specifically that are not strictly platonic, but taking that gamble even though he struggles with feelings such as being undeserving of Edwin; that he would be selfish to take a love he's undeserving of; that Edwin might come to realize, at some point, that he was mistaken in loving Charles and that being with Charles isn't actually enough/what he hoped it would be and he regrets his confession all together. Or, perhaps worst of all, what if Charles finds that the nagging fear he's buried deep down was correct all along... that he actually is like his father and capable of hurting Edwin and bastardizing the concept of love as a whole?

There are stakes when it comes to loving Edwin - if he were to screw up what they have, the consequences would be disastrous, it very well might destroy him. He cannot be careless, he cannot be impulsive, he cannot risk destroying what he and Edwin have. I'm not sure Charles has ever not loved Edwin, but he probably never humored that his Edwin: touch-reserved, buttoned-up, logical, stubborn, beautiful, kind Edwin who brought a warm light to Charles in his darkest moment, could feel that way, too... especially about him. What is he to do with that?

[alexwilltellyouthings]

There's one thing about the scene where Charles beats up the night nurse that I think says a lot about his anger.

He was raging, yes, but he wasn't out of his mind-blind-with-rage. And you can see that in the way he decides to proceed.

He picks the musical sphere thingy and *wounds it up* before driving the night nurse to fall. He used her as bait and closed the case, when he could have just killed her without considering any of that.

What does that make of him? Dangerous, for sure, to the people that should not have messed with him. But also someone who sees the world around him even in his darkest moments and that is so, so important, even if it can go in a lot of different directions.

It also makes him a badass. A very hot badass

[gayboydetectivez]

I think everyone's autistic edwin headcannons are 100% valid but id also like to speculate on what the writer said about Edwin's touch aversion and self isolating tendencies that I feel are being interpreted as autism but may not be.

The writer said that he did not intend for edwin to be autistic and would not write a cannon autistic character without casting an autistic actor so while autistic edwin will always have my heart, it's not something that we can expect to become cannon.

The writer also said that much of the way edwin behaves is caused by his trauma both from experiencing hell but also from a very emotionally neglectful childhood. Many symptoms of PTSD can mimic autism and I feel the further we get into season 1, we really see him start to cope with those symptoms in a constructive way and begin to overcome them in a way that is more narratively significant if he has PTSD.

He has a strict dedication to routine and note-taking which could be autism or it's from the fact he grew up in a catholic boarding school where he was literally beat if he didn't follow strict rules, he went to hell where he was forced to live by rules of survival, and then only escaped hell through intricately mapping his way out.

He has touch aversion and doesn't like strangers which is common in autism, but also in those who experienced physical violence regularly.

His difficulty managing strong emotions could be autism but it also makes sense for someone who wasn't allowed to express himself at all for fear of being bullied, arrested, and then later in hell, hunted down and torn apart by a monster.

There are also symptoms he displays that are 100% PTSD like his intense startle response, his jokes about his hell trauma, his refusal to speak on his own emotions, and his defensive/catty responses when confronted directly he later has to apologize for because he spoke from instinct.

By the end of season one we see edwin starting to open up more both emotionally and physically with those around him (hugs with niko, the cat king kiss, hugging charles more and allowing himself to linger as well as being more forward with compliments and his feelings like in the post hell roof scene). He also is slowly becoming more okay with change as we reach the end of the 8th episode (accepting the night nurse and jenny into the agency without more than a comment on logistics).

I hope season 2 goes more into him breaking down his walls and learning to cope with his trauma even more.

[idliketobeatree]

dead boy detectives characters as art objects and sculptures; extended ---

hello, i remembered i made some subjective explanations and notes on few of my choices for this post, and i thought some folks might enjoy it. soo let's get into it.

1.

monty finch

author: anders krisár

pretty self-explanatory; it's a moulded male torso with visible inprints on its skin.

anders krisár’ artistry explores the themes of loss, separation, and the condition of the psyche through the lens of a human body in duality: perfectionism meets unsettlement, skin meets marble and bronze and polyester, to create sculptures spanning geological time far beyond the living's capabilities.

monty's creation by esther was already stripped of any human agency. "he was made a boy, not a person", small, almost doll-sized, with a singular purpose: to seduce and entice the chosen dead boy into their doom. the naked skin and specifically the position of its arms are mildly erotic, but in a way that makes your skin crawl. the imprints are intimate, placed possesive; notice the thumbs digging close to especially sensitive areas like nipples and the belly button.

the latter seems to connect the "creator" to the subject, the navel here as a symbol of cruel, invasive motherhood. the fact that the torso is cut off in the middle and at the neck furthers the uncanny valley feeling of a young male body, but then again. this is a realistic portrayal. so was it ever a person? what does it have inside to make dents so profound? how deep you can press until it breaks?

--- i'm leaving out crystal and edwin (for now?), but @nicheoverhere brilliantly noticed that it was the same author for both. that was intentional! because glen martin taylor is all about taking kintsugi, which is a beautiful art form of repairing fine china and generally delicate things with veins of precious metals, but with materials like— nails. scissors. barbed wire. all ugly. the repair after a great shattering is seldom pretty after all, they really are similar in this regard. ---

2.

charles rowland

author: robert hudson

okay, strap in. this funky dreamy world belongs to robert hudson, and i picked it for charles rowland because it's all first impressions. the colours? the composition? they give you the 80s vibes, almost; like something a kid would design if you asked them what a time machine would look like. it could probably move in several ways. the pieces seem mismatched, but hold themselves together surprisingly well. or maybe you underestimate it?

it's neither big nor small. you can't tell its size at all. it's a bit overwhelming to look at, at first, and at second, and after a while, but it carries that comfortable familiarity and nostalgia for— well, nothing in particular, because the longer you look, the sadder its past seems. the bold pops of contrasting colour are fighting for your attention. they want you to like it! and yet, the major material seems to be just. rusted steel. made from tools.

and look at that botched up sphere, it wants so badly to be a perfect sphere and it knows it'll never be one. fine!! perhaps it could be a football ball instead! or maybe a head. if you close your eyes, that is. and this facing-up horseshoe? a lucky charm, made to collect good luck and keep it from falling out cause god, it needs it.

---

3.

niko sasaki

author: justin cloud

---

niko sasaki, now how do i describe her? let's start by saying— she's cleary a her. this one is a she. and there's something to be said about blooming, and femininity, and delicacy, because pink is a hopeful girly colour and a surprise and a delight.

what are you doing in a gallery, little flower, shouldn't you be at home? in a field? look how pretty you are! mind you, of course there's something wrong with her as well, but you're not sure if that is because someone messed it up, or because of a different entity alltogether. was it always half-electric? its elegance seems purposeful— the iridescent metal fits all too well with the white-pink petals— but also uncanny. and oh suddenly you can't stop looking at the stigma from which a pollen should release aaany time now.

when i look at her, at her black artificial stem and the small leaves imitating the real ones, i wonder if she doesn't want to lure me into a trap. is it her fault?

the beautiful petals seem like the only thing left real of the flower. whichever way she turns, it will probably mean— death. and flowers are ephemeral. what is a flower mounted to a wall, fortified with steel, connected with cables and enfused with electrical energy, then?

i think she's a self-preserving survivor. ---

4.

the night nurse

author: elizabeth turk

---

now. the night nurse.

of course it's the only piece in the collection where the background needed to be dark. no one here is older than her. there is no inoffensive, fading-into-background white for this absolute pillar of truth. or maybe something like a totem, quite protective in nature. and it's terrifying, 'cause you're immediately hit with the feeling that you're looking at something out of this realm, something you're not supposed to witness. the perspective is all wrong. is it downwards or upwards? why does it seem unstable when the pieces are so perfectly centered and seemingly well-balanced? child, you should calm down, it's not like you will destroy it with a stronger puff of air. will you?

this sculpture is called "tipping point — echoes of extinction", and it's actually a mix of technology and sculpture and sound, with elegant visualizations of the lost voices of birds and sea mammals. the author said it "was conceived in reverence to the astounding lives the species which envelop humans have lived and the mysterious ways they have contributed to our well-being. the shadows of their memory, whether a shape or a sound, have inspired this project." so the piece deals with death. moreover, it deals with murder. it records the harsh reality and makes sure the ones that suffered horribly at the hands of humans are, in a way, celebrated. but also— categorised. like epitaphs. the birdsong, once a living sign, is only visually represented by the lines of varying lenghts in 3D, and you can do nothing about it anymore, right, you can't bring back the dead, you can't help the innocent dying in any way other than— stacking them on top of each other and moving on.

---

so that's for now, i might someday write more if anyone's curious. :")

[wra-1-th]

I absolutely adore writing esther + monty's relationship. it's such a fucked up bond that you literally never run out of things to explore.

where did she find him? how are familiars created? had she had any before him? id assume there's magic involved that bonds a witch and their familiar that prevents them from losing one another and allows them to communicate. does monty have traces of esther's magic? is he able to harness it? how long to familiars live? if they're connected to their witches, how long can they live after the witch dies?

had esther taken "donations" from monty before? was he used to sitting on the counter as she took blood or feathers for her potions? when did she start? did she want to get him used to the role of a familiar quite young or did she wait until he was older? was it ever used as punishment? there is so much there.

did he know? did he sit down on the counter prepared to have a feather or two plucked, perhaps a slight pain but nothing he hadn't felt before, of course, and then she tore him apart and there was so much pain that it felt like it was coming from everywhere at once? did he ever see the remnants of his old body?

was he scared, when he looked up at her? when he smiled, because she was smiling at him? he was in this new body that felt so many different things, but he couldn't feel the pain where the needle had dragged twine through his flesh. she didn't see him as anything more than an experiment. when would he realize this?

did she take him clothes shopping? did they break in somewhere? was anything paid for? did she help him, give him suggestions on what to pick out? or did everything come from the back of her closet, from the styles she had long outgrown? did she choose the crow jewelry as a way to remind him of what he really was, or did he find it and want to remind himself? was there any comfort in it?

was she ever proud of him? did she ever think he was doing a good job in fooling the agency? or did she always want him to work quicker, work harder, always putting her plan above everything else?

did she make him queer? is that even something she could have controlled? or did she just tell him to flirt with the boys and it worked out that he was queer? would it have been better if he wasn't? if he hadn't fallen for edwin and hadn't gotten attached?

does he even know what homophobia is? (with the way esther looked two seconds from a hate crime whenever he brought edwin up, id think he has an idea.) but does he know what it means? does he know any terms regarding the queer community? does he even know how he identifies?

did he feel like he could fly again while on the swingset?

why didn't he die when esther did? id think familiars are connected to their witches, to their magic or their lives. were the things esther had done to him so vile that their bond had begun to fray? was he able to find a life for himself that prevented him from dying alongside her?

how does he feel about magic, after everything? would he want to learn? esther had plenty of books, and he taught himself to read. surely he could learn something from them, but would he really want to be involved in that? and what kind of magic would that teach him? does he have esther's magic? would he even want to harness that? would he want to figure out a way to switch between human and crow on his own terms? who would he go to to learn? edwin knows magic, of course, but how awkward would that be? the cat king is a shapeshifter, but a cat and a crow collaborating is a preposterous idea.

would monty want to learn about crows? can he communicate with them, or was he only ever able to speak with esther? crow parents teach their children, but monty's family weren't crows.

I just have so many thoughts about monty and im trying to translate most of them into fic but it's been slow so far. things to think about, I guess. monty deserves so much love and happiness but I will have to angst him first!

[nocturnalnewsiestrash]

I was thinking more about this lovely post from the lovely @shaylogic, specifically the why of Charles' shirt changing to black immediately after Crystal talks to him about them staying friends.

And I think it has less to do with the fact that it's her telling him they should remain friends since she can't handle a relationship right now with all her trauma from David. I think this part, the "from her trauma from David", is really really important. Because from Crystal's perspective, she's essentially saying she cannot deal with romantic involvement so soon after David while he's still massively messing with her head and is in no way trying to say that it's because Charles is too similar to David, it's just that all her romantic memories are completely entirely filled with memories of David and when she's put back in the headspace of romantic feelings it brings up all the trauma of him and she needs more time to work through her trauma before she can revisit romantic feelings again.

Now from Charles perspective, he hears her saying that she can't handle a romantic relationship with him right now because of David being so in her head still. And Charles, ever the Reading People's Emotions boy that he is (built from his own trauma mind you) can tell that there's more to why she's saying it now. Like she quite literally just woke up screaming from a nightmare as she puts it and immediately says she's "fine" with an earnest nod to. With this context Charles is reading into why this conversation is immediately following this nightmare, which he has no details about so of course he's analyzing it and why she's saying this after it. Not to mention the fact that she pulled his specific move of brushing of concerns about your well-being. And we have to remember that this is following all the events of the Devlin house shaking his trauma to the forefront of his mind, everyone's look in their eyes following his attacking of the Night Nurse, and all the shaking of all his uncertainty about him being a Good Person and being Needed by the people he loves into the ruminating focus. So with all of this fresh in his mind, with him and David being referred to in the same sentence both with the same romantic context, even though it's entirely NOT what Crystal was saying, Charles still hears this, already in overanalyzing mode out of his worry for her and his own worries that are bouncing around in his mind so easily attach themselves to her worries and twist them until they look alike as overthinking anxiety often does. And to HIS brain he's now worried that he's like David. That now he has some "proof" that he might be a bad person in Crystal connecting him to David, at least enough proof for his own trauma induced "what if" anxiety to think that maybe these fears he's always had and repressed that are now being brought into reality somewhat actually ARE true. No matter what Crystal could have said in this scene he heard David and him in the same context and it became his own worry spiral even with his ever-present smile masking it.

So essentially in Crystal's attempt to explain without revealing her own trauma too much because she can't bear to do that yet she set off Charles own trauma response from dealing with his father of reading into every minute emotion and action to figure out how to understand so he can help her (and himself from the past) and this instinctive trauma response brings out his overthinking which then brings out his worries that he was already recently overthinking and they then got all mashed together in an overthinking sandwich and grew his what if I'm not a good person worries enough to take him down an entire shirt shade. His emotional well-being has been knocked down a whole nother peg from his new worries over any similarity to David. So that's why this conversation was the catalyst for the burgundy to black transition.

[honeii-puff]

Edwin and Charles Parallels: Anger

When it comes to Anger, Edwin and Charles are two sides of the same coin.

We see Charles' anger more than we see Edwins, and it's firey. It's violent. It's loud and obvious. You know it's there. He is the protector, and how he experiences anger reflects that. He gets defensive. His anger is hot anger.

The only time we see Edwin get angry is in the woods when the Cat King tells him that Monty is Esther's crow familiar. You don't notice his anger. Not until he speaks to Monty. His anger is calculated and controlled, only exposed by the malice in the words "You're a bloody crow." He also lashes out at The Cat King after Monty is gone when he asks for a thank you. "This is what you are." you can't visibly see his anger, but you can hear it. His anger is cold anger.

The way they experience anger can be traced back to their own respective traumas: Charles with his father, and Edwin in hell.

From what we've seen with Charles' father, we know that they both share the same hot anger. It's violent and ugly and unpredictable. He hasn't seen any other reaction of anger before, so he could be bouncing off of what he already knows. When he gets angry, he gets very verbally defensive as well, which could be a protection mechanism.

When Edwin was in hell, he had to be quiet. unnoticeable. That's the main reason why his emotions are so repressed. He had to forget how to feel in order to survive The Dollhouse. This is why he's so in control of his anger. It was his own protection mechanism, but instead of needing it to lash out, he needed it to hide so he could survive.

Different sides, same coin

[diangelodork]

DBDA nightly analysis #25! (sorry i've been lacking lately, i have not been in the right mental state but i am BACK NOW BABYYYYY)

tonight's topic: crystal palace the girl that you are (character analysis bc she's been getting shit on so violently lately and DOES NOT deserve it.)

i will say - i didn't care all that much for crystal for quite a while until i really sat down to analyze her motivations and background, but it is the hate that some people have been spewing about her that motivated me to analyze her tonight.

crystal palace is flawed. of course she is. she is by no means perfect.

the first time we see her is in emma's flashback to her and crystal. she would play in a graveyard, frolicking about and taking polaroid pictures with this ghost of a young child. she was good enough friends with this child for her to seek out professional help to get her back. she was undoubtedly kind to her.

when we see her next she is dazed and confused, and still, she makes a rude remark. this is not because she is inherently bad, but because she still has that memory of being mistreated. now, she doesnt have all of her memories, but she has the memory that people weren't nice to her. she feels she must fit into that mold and that memory. the way she does that is by being a dick.

we see her a bit more in depth in her walk with charles. she expresses that she feels like people weren't the kindest to her and, knowing what we know about the way she was raised, that makes a lot of sense. she was excruciatingly neglected as a child and seeked attention. the best way to do that was negative attention. it was the easiest to accomplish.

she has her spats with edwin, but they are mostly (if not exclusively) initiated by him. she returns his energy. then we see some of the shit she goes through with david. he is incredibly abusive all throughout the series and it is very evident how predatory he is. he chose her because she was unloved. because she was vulnerable. she was easy to take advantage of.

her breaking down in E1 is so, SO important to me. we forget that she is MEANT to be flawed. she is imperfect. like the boys, she is but a sixteen year old and she is so deeply scared. she doesn't know who she is or how to cope with the fact that she doesnt know who she is. on top of that, this fucker that she's with (affectionate) won't stop shitting on her for NO reason. from the start, he was a douche to her (he has his motivations for this as well, but that doesn't mean it's not true) and now shes sitting here and calling her abuser and the fucker that has been tormenting and stalking her is being linked to her ("her demon") and she cant HANDLE that. shes been hanging on by a thread all of E1. shes been dealing with so fucking much, emotionally.

interestingly, edwin is not an emotional character when faced with other people's issues. i say this because he still garners more compassion than her. the way she treats the becky aspen case, especially, is so fragile and vulnerable. the way she immediately starts crying after looking into becky's mom's mind should have elicited more sympathy than it did and it's incredibly interesting that it didnt.

i will be the FIRST to say how important the "it's a lark to you!" scene is for edwin, but i never hear anyone discuss crystal's part in this conversation. shes so desperate and hurting and it's so strange that no one talks enough about that.

except no its not. i wish it was.

i truly think its an issue of her being a black woman and standing in the way of payneland. there is a lot of internalized misoginoir within how the fandom views her character. it is explicitly highlighted within the show how similar edwin and crystal are and a lot of the things she gets hate for are characteristics that are also incredibly prevalent in edwin's character. for example, her brashness and bluntness. it’s okay when it’s edwin, the white, queer twink of everyone’s dreams, but the second it’s a woman who is already on thin ice for the fandom because she’s standing in the way of the main ship, it’s easy to say she’s a bad person for this.

crystal is so unwavering as a character. she has such strong themes of feminism all throughout her story. she is able to separate from her abuser and intimidate and overpower him which is so STRONG. she is able to hone in on the divine femininity of her ancestors and THAT is where her power is derived from. she confronts a goddess of female vengance and justice and stands in front of her, demanding justice for the young girls slaughtered under her watch. she is inherently, at her core, good. she has done shitty, awful things in her past, but that happens when you are abused. it is not an excuse, but she is a CHILD who has been deeply abused. neglect is a form of abuse.

also, could you IMAGINE how it must feel to be such a deeply unloved character who KNOWS they are unloved. she is a psychic. she could see into the minds of her parents. she could always see their apathy. what a lonely fucking thing to go through, my god.

even still, when she was doing these awful things, she took the time to connect with a young girl and spend enough time with her for them to bond and for her to miss her. her first instinct (with the memories of her parent's neglect gone) is to cross an ocean to save a little girl. she is so deeply touched by maren and shelby's stories.

she is a flawed character, but they all are. she gets more hate than all of them and, if you are one of the people who hate her above all else, i want you to ask yourself why? these views are, of course, not held by the majority of the fandom, but it has become a big fuckin issue and i wanted to address it. acknowledge where it’s coming from, if you’re one of the people feeling a bit targeted by tonight’s analysis. love yall <3

[shaylogic]

Cat King: I know my kingdom better than you. I'm proud of my duties towards my citizens. I hold responsibilities that are very impressive.

Edwin: You've forgotten yourself in your own lack of self-awareness and self-worth -- exactly proving my point.

[honestlyijustfindhersocharming]

A Needlessly Long Analysis of Every Single Cat King Scene in Dead Boy Detectives and Why I Want to Throw Him.

After many, many rewatches of Dead Boy Detectives for the sake of trying to get another season, I've found myself with increasingly strong feelings about a certain feline so... Can we talk about the Cat King? Yes? Great. Forewarning, I'm about to absolutely ream this shapeshifter because he's complex, confusing, horrible, and has so much potential that I need to talk about it.

Please keep in mind that this is my personal take !! I love the Cat King as a character, I just don't like a lot of his actions given the context.

Introduction to the Madness ...

The Cat King is a wonderful antagonist for so many reasons, but I feel like a lot of people have forgotten that he's an extraordinarily flawed person and can be incredibly creepy at times. Lukas does a wonderful job portraying the Cat King's charm, as does George in portraying Edwin's brief moments of falling into his traps, but the Cat King is not a good person. Let's go down the list.

The Cat King's Introduction: Episode 2

Episode 2 starts off with the consequences of Edwin's rash actions in Episode 1, something that I'm fully here for. It gives Edwin's jealousy real weight outside of just causing tension between Crystal and Edwin. However, I think people forget that the Cat King's "punishment" is (almost) completely selfish. Yes, while he claims that it's a consequence for harming the other cats, the punishment doesn't actually reward the cat Edwin used magic on, instead only benefiting the Cat King himself. It does force Edwin to distinguish between the cats, something that I figured out after another watch of the scene, but... I'm not sure if that was his main motivation when he blatantly says later that he wanted more time with Edwin.

The two options Edwin is presented with are sex and counting all the cats in Port Townsend. Option one is mildly horrific, even if Edwin is to consent it could still be considered coercive as the Cat King is in a position of power over Edwin. I personally don't think it'd get to that point - the Cat King sees the Edwin is a repressed Edwardian boy and wants to test that boundary - but... the implication is hard to swallow. When Edwin is given the option of counting cats, he emphasizes that he is a "fair and consensual Cat King", which we'll get back to later, but the offer itself is still - essentially - a move on Edwin as it forces him to stay in the Cat King's vicinity for longer. The task itself is stupid, but it again doesn't benefit any of the cats besides the Cat King. The only reason Edwin's stay is prolonged is because the Cat King is fascinated by Edwin. That's it.

While this interaction does contribute to Edwin's eventual sexual awakening, that does not make the interaction itself good. And this dichotomy between the Cat King starring in Edwin's journey of self discovery but doing so in the literal worst way continues in Episode 4...

The Cat King and Exploiting Emotional Attachment: Episode 4

I'd like to point out that this interaction starts out with the Cat King scratching Edwin, something that he explains by referencing "rough play". Now, this is obviously a joke, but it still brings up issues with the continued lack of Edwin's consent in something that the Cat King frames as sexual. What really kills me about this scene though, is how the Cat King exploits Edwin's other crushes - or potential crushes - to get a reaction out of him. The funniest thing about this to me, is that the way that the Cat King shapeshifts into people that Edwin cares for ends up paralleling him to Angie, our monster of the week. Angie also exploits the emotional attachment of someone to their loved ones for personal gain, but in her case it's to actively seek out food. What separates the two to me, is that the Cat King does not need Edwin to care for him, nor does he need Edwin to survive, he just wants Edwin, therefore making him kind of worse that the monster that we go into this Episode trying to slay.

Again, this does end up assisting Edwin in his eventual realization that he likes Charles, but it's the entirely wrong way of going about it. The scene ends with me just feeling like Edwin got thrown around like a mouse by this cat in the middle of something that's genuinely important to him. And then the confession of why Edwin does the casework. Sweet Jesus. Yes, it's good that Edwin gets that truth out for the sake of the audience, but the knowledge that the Cat King gains out of it is chilling to me. It's another display of the power the Cat King holds over Edwin because while you can argue that he uses the binding spell on Edwin as payback for what happened to his cats, forcing the truth out of Edwin was nothing but for himself. I think he believes it's for Edwin's sake, to make him feel more comfortable sharing things now that the first hurdle has passed, but it... really doesn't? The way that this backfires really emphasizes the way that pushing Edwin's boundaries like this isn't a good way to gain his affection.

The last thing to point out in this specific interaction is the last couple of lines of the scene, specifically the way that the Cat King taunts Edwin about the cat count of 142 being "way off". We know this is a bluff because later, he confirms that there are 147 cats in Port Townsend, including himself of course. The irony to this scene in my opinion is the fact that the Cat King just said to Edwin that he wanted him to be more honest, and then immediately lies. The double standard is insane, and I can't tell if the Cat King realizes it or not.

Something I feel important to note as well is the way that Edwin, in the same episode, when asked if he'd like to kiss the Cat King answers painfully fast. Monty he at least considers, but the Cat King isn't even an option to him. To me, this just displays further how horrifically the Cat King has fucked up any chances of a meaningful relationship with Edwin.

The Cat King Becomes an Incel for a Hot Minute: Episode 6

Episode 6... Oh boy Episode 6. Episode 6 is hard because he doesn't stop being a boundary pusher, but it's also ever the more evident just how much this stupid cat cares about Edwin. I would love to defend him and be like "oh actions speak louder than words" but his actions STILL suck in this scene. So, let's break down those action one by one.

First off, he goes to the forest. That's a big one because he mentions that he's been looking for Edwin the entire night, seemingly for no other reason than to explain to him the situation with Monty being an essential double agent. The first bit of the interaction between the Cat King and Monty isn't much to note, in my opinion, because it's mostly just taunting. But, in this case, the taunting is kind of warranted. Though I personally empathize with Monty's situation, he is still leading Edwin into a trap that could kill him. Where the Cat King pushes boundaries again is the goddamn kiss. It feels... icky. Predatory.

Again, there's no consent in this situation, and though it all comes from a place of worrying for Edwin's safety, I'm not sure that excuses it. I will grant the Cat King the fact that he's extraordinarily honest with Edwin throughout the scene, exposing Monty's identity and the case without beating around the bush much. The way that the Cat King ends the interaction, because though I'm not exactly sure what to think about the Cat King's approval of Edwin lashing out at Monty, I know exactly what I think about what follows.

Edwin, rightly, immediately thinks to take the information he just learned to Crystal and Charles, the two people who could still be in danger because of this now pointless case. The Cat King takes this time to make yet another move instead of just... accepting the fact that he helped and that could build Edwin's trust later. The way the Cat King says "I believe I'm at least owed a little thank-you" threw me off the first time I watched it, but I accepted it. I suppose Edwin could have been more polite. And then the Cat King said "By the way, the second kiss is always much better."

Dude. What. So, to break this down, the Cat King comes out to help save Edwin from a potentially life threatening situation only because he believes that he will get a reward out of it. When Edwin refuses (rightfully so, what the fuck) the Cat King asserts his power again by saying that he's "not someone to be dismissed". Edwin's words are harsh when he states that the Cat King is nothing more than the chain linking him to Port Townsend, but I don't feel as though he's entirely wrong to be upset in this situation. The Cat King, instead of making me feel bad for him afterwards, goes full Nice Guy™ on Edwin afterwards by yelling at him that he'll stop playing nice. Instead of taking literally two seconds to introspect, he threatens Edwin like that's going to keep his stubborn ass from doing anything.

Hello? What happened to fair and consensual Cat King, dude? He's so out of touch with how to actually express his affection for someone, and it's honestly insane.

Alone: Episode 7

Episode 7 is the third to last time we see the Cat King, and it's the first time that he's not in the presence of Edwin. We see him be more vulnerable here, and get a better understanding of how he acts when he's cornered. He starts off haughty, continues his antics with innuendo to offset tension, and then continues to taunt Ester until he gets literally killed by her. After his death he expresses his fear through anger, and continues to attempt to defend Edwin. First by trying to remind her that he's not going to give her the youth she desires, then by telling her to "keep your paws off of him".

It's somewhat heart warming to know he does truly care for Edwin, but he's still in it for himself, ultimately. He doesn't attempt to go against Esther again out of fear that he'll die for it, and his values of his survival above else. It's great character building, and a great flaw, but again annoying that he only expresses this level of care without Edwin around.

Redemption?: Episode 8

Episode 8 is meant to be his, sort-of, redemption Episode in my opinion. He is vulnerable with Niko and Crystal in regards to his fear of Esther (kind of, he does confess that he was killed by her), gives them information on Esther's background, and also gives them a tip off on something that could help stop her - black salt.

After Niko's death, when he presents Edwin with flowers, I believe he is meant to be at his best. He does not demand anything from Edwin in that moment, only apologizes for the loss of Niko and compliments her bravery. It's interesting to note that the lilies that he gifts to Edwin are toxic to cats, potentially a symbol of his attempt to be less selfish when it comes to him. And that he doesn't ask for anything more from Edwin when he is given the kiss on the cheek.

Of course, he still maintains his bravado and teasing nature, but that - it seems - is meant to be the Cat King's redemption arc.

But... is it enough?

Is it Enough?: Conclusions

I don't think so, personally. I think that in a Season 2, the Cat King could've become a better, less selfish, person. But at the moment, I think he's still stuck in the same middle ground that Monty ends up in where the one good deed he does ends up being a small drop in the bullshit that comes before that. While I do think that Monty is ultimately more forgivable, there is still a lot that would need to happen to truly get both of them to a point where they can be forgiven by those they harmed (and me, tbh). The Cat King may have done better eventually, but he still never really apologized for his contributions to everything that happened in Port Townsend, or the bullshit that he did to Edwin personally.

All this to circle back around to this: Fuck Netflix for depriving us of Season 2 and potentially truly redeeming the Cat King and having him actually learn to care about Edwin in a way that doesn't push his boundaries immeasurably. And fuck Netflix for not giving me a chance to see the Cat King start to accept the fact that he is fucking lonely and does way too much to cover it up. I need him acknowledging his fuck ups, becoming a genuine protagonist and not just someone who could be good! He has so much potential to be more than a mere predator playing with his food and Netflix took that from us.

Tldr; Netflix is the real villain here, but the Cat King sure does a good job of trying to be the best, most complicated, most annoying, most horrifying antagonist.

[perseidlion]

I completely understand why people give The Cat King a grandiose background in fic or in headcanons. I personally prefer to write him as kind of pathetic.

Why? Well, it's just more interesting to me because Cat not being some all-powerful being who is apart and above the boys makes things more equal. It's especially good fuel as a Catwin writer. It also avoids the trope of the worldly and morally gray immortal seducing a naive hero.

I also think it has basis in canon. Cat implies that he's 'hundreds of years older' than Edwin, which means he's probably not an ancient being. He's also not fully immortal. He has nine lives but presumably at the end of those, he'll die.

Then there's the fact that his 'kingdom' is Port Townsend, a tiny tourist town on the Pacific Northwest. Not exactly the king of a very large hill. I mean, his throne is a stack of palettes and his castle is an old cannery.

Then there's his actual power level. Esther is a very powerful witch, but she bests him without the use of magic. Cat has no defense against a woman with a cane. His magic doesn't seem to be especially powerful, either. His power is flashy and mysterious, but we never really see him defend himself or attack with it. The most impressive thing he does is make the bracelet, which is probably not unique magic.

The other thing that takes his power away is that he's down so bad for Edwin from the second they meet. All his machinations are to get Edwin to pay attention to him. He even acknowledges how pathetic that makes him, even if he says that's down to him being 'a romantic.'

This to me is all much more interesting than if he's a more typical Sandman-esque powerful and mysterious elemental being. It puts him on more equal footing with Edwin, who is accomplished and capable in his own right. No one knows who The Cat King is, but the second the ghosts of Port Townsend hear the Dead Boy Detectives are in town, there's a line around the block. That implies the boys are very well-known with a stellar reputation.

That's also why I don't like the idea that The Cat King is a Child of Desire. I get the connection between them, certainly, and why people like that idea. But making him a Child of the Endless gives him too much importance. Plus, as we saw from The Sandman, that would mean the other Endless couldn't mess with him, which I think would be a missed opportunity.

Maybe they will go that way in Season 2! It would certainly be a treat to see Lukas and Mason play off each other. And I'm sure I'd enjoy it.

But for now I'm enjoying writing Cat as a fifth-rate animal spirit from a tiny town who talks a big game and falls hard for an Edwardian ghost.

I wrote my version of The Cat King's background in my fic Cat and Ghost in case my analysis tickles your fancy.

[iremiari]

something something.... in a similar vein of thought as to how crystal's mind eyes are supposed to represent her "being watched" (it was stated in an interview somewhere), what would the baby doll demon spider represent for edwin?

it took me a good while to figure out but i think it's Societal Pressure and Bullying. which is A Lot Lamer than it sounds but also,, think about it!! (a bit of a long read)

it makes laughing noises. Specifically children's laughter. It is made up of MULTIPLE doll heads and hands. It's like if an angry mob of children was a spider. And let's not forget about its nature -- If Edwin makes the slightest noise or the slightest utterance or makes a move, it chases him. It chases him relentlessly and is always there to eat him alive.

obviously the spider is terrifying in ways that also don't relate to bullying, but still kind of relate to the society around edwin. one of them being that it's made of dolls. they're fake. they're plastic. they're superficial. people tend to be so superficial to keep up appearances and ostracize anyone that doesn't.

it's also a spider. a doll spider. in a dollhouse. edwin is trapped in its web (the dollhouse). but also, he would be trapped in society's social obstacles and mazes for him if he were alive simply because he is Different from them. his true self is not one that society welcomes, accepts, nor tolerates. and they would hunt them down and hurt him any chance they get.

this also makes for some really poetic metaphors about him and his interactions in hell

i think one that's really sweet is when edwin says "I can't escape it... I can't." and charles replies "Yeah well, I'm here now." LIKE OH MY GODDDDDDD LIKE!! like think abt it. think of the implications and how it relates to the metaphor.

charles is there to FREE him from being quiet. he is free to run and to scream and to escape the web that he's in. that's so. they're everything to me.

as for simon,, i cant really say what it WOULD mean like metaphorically... except for the part where simon asks "Do you think it has to be torture? Being the way we are?" and edwin's like "No. It does not. I'm going to get out of here, you should come with me." like edwin KNOWS its not a sin and he's trying to escape the society that rejects them

other than that though, i cant really think what that interaction would mean...

maybe im just wrong about the metaphor, maybe it's Not societal pressure. maybe it's not anything at all! maybe the curtains were just blue, and a giant spider made of doll heads is just a giant spider made of doll heads. who knows?

either way it is 1am where i am right now so if anyone sees this post and has any ideas, feel free to rb/comment, id love to see your take :D

(though: in a similar vein,,, charles died due to hypothermia and internal bleeding. hypothermia or the cold is usually associated with loneliness in most fiction - the way warmth is associated with company - and internal bleeding represents,.. well you can probably guess. leads you to wonder the kind of life charles lived.)

[zinnie-zoloft]

I’ll let you guys in on a secret, most of my Charles headcanons are based on my own family. I’m not actually that creative I just come from a long line of broke punk kids and bad parents.