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lore-of-the-silvereyes-rwby · 4 years ago

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The Hero that was never meant to be

I’m going to ask you guys a quick question. Think back to the volume 2 season finale in 2014. Or before Salem's debut. Once all of the antagonists are defeated and you're now left asking; Who's going to be the next antagonist for the series?

Before we proceed with this inquiry let's take a look at what exactly distinguishes a hero, from a villain.

Hero/Villain/Anti;who knows?

Below are multiple examples/definitions and meanings of heroes and villains as well as their anti sub groups.

Hero

a person who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.

the chief character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.

“a person of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his or her brave deeds and noble qualities." Heroes come in many forms in life, ranging from one's family and friends to athletes to movie stars. A person's heroes can change over time.

Villain

(in a film, novel, or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot.

a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel.

a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot.

Anti-Hero

a central character in a story, movie, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes.

is 'a central character in a story, film, or drama who lacks conventional heroic attributes'. These missing attributes include idealism, courage, and morality. Anti-heroes can sometimes do the right thing, but it is usually because it serves their interests to do so.

Anti-Villain

is the opposite of an Anti-Hero — a character with heroic goals, personality traits, and/or virtues who is ultimately the villain. Their desired ends are mostly good, but their means of getting there range from evil to undesirable.

Now that we have some measure of clarity about this let's get to the point. Basically Ironwood is a Anti-Villain character

If you think back to the things we have learned throughout the series, all the people we have met, you will find that all of Ironwood’s traits align better with Salem, Cinder, Jacques, and Adam. All of them have this hunger for power and/or control, all of them are trying to protect themselves and increase their control.

All of them use a level of manipulation and none of them really cared about the damage it would do to others. Ironwood might be a little better because, at first, it was something he kind of thought about. Kind of. He had trouble relating to the idea that protecting more was better than protecting less, and it seems that he had been struggling to find his heart since the beginning.

Ironwood is a well intentioned and desperate man who wants to protect Atlas against Salem, but he can reach extreme means to do so. By the end of Volume 7, he's willing to abandon both Mantle to die and throw away humanity's best chance of survival by leaving Amity Tower; he also falls far enough to shoot a teenager for comparing him to Salem.

Going hand in hand with his Never My Fault tendencies. Ironwood hates anyone bringing up how his ways don't work, with extreme annoyance being the best reaction possible. It doesn't matter if someone is simply stating the objective tangible negatives of his actions, he will not hear it. He gets into a shouting match with Nora when she calls him out on how much damage he's doing to Mantle and only stops when she points out his proposed solution to deal with the current unrest (martial law) is just going to cause far worse problems if he goes through with it.

While he demands complete loyalty from others, Ironwood has repeatedly betrayed the trust of others in the name of the greater good. If someone is an obstacle to accomplishing what he believes is necessary, he will use political or even military power to enforce his will.

Ironwood has helped Ozpin fight Salem for years but they disagreed over the best way to defend Vale; Ironwood secretly convenes a meeting of the Vale and Atlesian councils to report Ozpin's behavior, resulting in Vale removing Ozpin from overseeing the Vytal Festival security in favor of Ironwood. Qrow later tells Ironwood that he has a strange idea of showing gratitude if he responds to Ozpin bringing him into the fight against Salem by betraying him. Even after being confronted, Ironwood insists that he had no other choice.

Ironwood spends most of Volume 7 promising that the Kingdom of Atlas is safe and that Mantle can count on him to protect them. However, when he discovers Salem is arriving in person to attack Atlas, he decides to abandon Mantle to the Grimm in favour of raising the floating city of Atlas higher in the atmosphere where the Grimm can't go. When Ruby tries warning her allies about Ironwood's plan, he disables her scroll, and has Teams RWBY, JNR, Oscar and Qrow arrested.

Ironwood's a man with good intentions, but he seems to believe the best way to handle any sort of situation is if he is in full control of it. This is seen as early as Volume 2, where he both brings a large fleet (composed mainly of machines) along with students for security and later has the Vale and Atlas Councils transfer security control of the Vytal Festival from Ozpin to himself.

After the Fall of Beacon, James continues to tighten Atlas' defenses with a Dust embargo and closing of its borders, and by the time the heroes arrive in Mantle, there are broadcasts of the general practically saying that as long as they cooperate with his laws, he can and will keep them safe.

As Salem's forces continue to sow discord and increase his paranoia, and when he discovers that Team RWBY has consistently hidden important information from him, Ironwood decides to invoke martial law and raise Atlas out of Salem's reach, under his control. When Ruby warns the others of his plans, he shuts off her call with his own Scroll.

Ironwood is noted for being a man who never gives up pursuing his vision of how people should be protected. When his attempts to convince Ozpin that they're on the wrong path fail, he convinces the Atlesian and Vale councils to override Ozpin's authority and give him direct control of protecting the Vytal Festival Tournament.

In Volume 7, he is willing to pursue his goal of protecting the Kingdom of Atlas against Salem no matter how bad his public reputation becomes with the citizens.

To be clear Ironwood is an Anti- Villain type character in the RWBY story. He may have good intentions but it is unknown as to their extent of what they are. His methods to achieve those methods have only made things worse.

I couldn’t let you breath, cause I didn’t wanna Die

We all say we would die for something but do we actually mean it?

“I would die without regret I offer up my life”

It is hypothetical but not in the way you suggest. The difference between using would or will is not about whether the speaker is being disingenuous about their offer, it’s about whether the speaker knows if they are ever going to be in a position to fulfil their promise

It is hypothetical because the speaker does not know whether there will ever be a situation where they would be in a position to give their life to save you. If they were to use will, it implies they are anticipating that they will be in a position to give their life to save you

When someone says “I would die for you if you need it,” is it just a hypothesis that's never going to happen, the subject doesn’t want to die at all, otherwise they’ll use “will” instead of “would”?

Kill or be killed

All the weapons in rwby appeal to the audience as they have options when it comes to fighting. Ironwoods does not. His weapon is only designed to kill as a reflection of his inability to see reason. As opposed to other characters that show that when they kill it would be a last resort option.

(Think of the Jedi's preference for lightsabers instead of blasters)

Ironwood has a revolver - reliable, never jams. high attack power, similar to his mentality on robotics in general and how he values them focusing on the characteristics of the revolver is the important part, and you see it in another Atlesian character--Weiss Myrtenaster is a Rapier and a Revolver as well, and revolvers are still used nowadays because of their reliability. They'll never jam, and when it comes to a gun all that really matters is hitting the target on a pragmatic mindset at least, and ultimately in the show the weapons used by characters say a lot about them. For example;

Qrow has a scythe - not a weapon, a farmer's tool, alluding to the scarecrow. The actual weapon would be the sword mode, and is inspired by the grim reaper, who uses a scythe because he reaps souls like one would reap what was sown(or harvest)

Jaunes shield and sword are both offensive and defensive weapons which offers a variety of options as to handle conflict

Ozpin's cane symbolically conveys the message that it's okay to be weak and its normal to accept help and support from others

Yang's gauntlets are basically Bruise but don’t kill type weapon as such they give her more control of the damage that is inflicted on her opponents

As ruby put it the Weapons in the show are an extension of the characters. The extent of Ironwoods weapon is that it conveys his blunt, and cold methods that he can’t or won’t embrace alternatives solutions or anyone else's ideas to problems

This can also be seen with his use of militarized Huntsmen and the use of mindless android soldiers. As I stated in I am power Ironwood’s personnel combat abilities are mediocre to non-existent with his true power stemming from the consent of the people to die for his cause instead of him since it's guaranteed that he will die instantly due to his lack of unique or special combat abilities.

(Pretty self explanatory considering he had to sacrifice an arm to beat a nerd)

Fear of death is basic human instinct

Ironwood believes that he is this chosen savior and can’t die and he believes his life is more important than others and would instead sacrifice everyone else instead of him if it would mean victory

Now you're probably asking why does Ironwood not want to die when he said he would? As stated before he doesn’t trust anyone but himself to do the job right. His narcissism and ego prohibit him from trusting others and having faith that people besides him can win.

This has been hinted as early as his debut in V2 where he asks Ozpin;

“Do you honestly believe that your children can win a war?”

Because of this and his Nihilism for rejecting the truth, he believes that he is the most important piece on the bored and everyone should listen and die for whatever he needs if it would mean victory

Ambitions and desires of a broken kingdom

A character without motivation is a really boring character as opposed to one who does. But to realize what their motivation is or what it is truly is another. Ironwood is no different but what exactly is his personal motivation that is unique to him one must wonder?

That's just it, he has no real personal motivation. Like what does he have to lose? What does he have to gain? What is so important that he is willing to go to such lengths that clash with the ideas of Ozpin and the heroes? To answer Atlas. After all, what is Ironwood without Atlas?

It is important to know the effects of a characters home and origins to better understand a character's personality. Ironwood's plans have always been in line with Atlas, whose intentions are that of Ancient Mantle. Now what exactly are the intentions of the former capital that would live through Ironwood.

Atlas as I stated before is more or less a Technocratic Conservatives society led by Authoritative totalitarians with a focus of becoming an Extreme Militaristic Oligarchy that had originally started out as a Resource driven Empire out of necessity and without restriction

To clarify, Ironwood is a byproduct, and enforcer of Mantle’s(later Atlas) Philosophical Ideology and Culture. The effects of one's origins can have a very lasting impact on one's life. Ironwood’s life has been heavily affected by his homeland to the point that he will die for it, and sacrifice whatever he deems necessary for it.

Because of this Ironwoods alignment is that of Lawful Evil because of his Atlas ideology

A Lawful Evil character is an evil character who either tries to impose or uphold a lawful system on others without regard for their wishes, and/or adheres to a particular code. They believe in order, but mostly because they believe it is the best way of realizing their evil wishes.

In other words Ironwood will always be the loyal son of his Kingdom and will do anything to save it.

Now that clears his main motivation and the scale of what he is willing to do to achieve it but what motivates him personally?

Well that's just it there is none. His primary motivation is pretty shared by most of the heroes and main characters and as is the common clause of save the world stories everybody knows they can’t let that happen as peter quill would say;

“Why do you want to save the Galaxy?”

“Because I'm one of the idiots who lives in it.”

So with that in mind what's in it for him that he can’t lose or let the world be destroyed?

You overstepped your boundaries

To help understand his character it is important to understand what exactly his role in the plot was originally and how he ended up biting off more than he can chew when he broke away from it.

Essentially Ironwood was meant to be the overseer and guardian of the relic of creation as well as the trainer of the next generation of huntsman/huntresses. Meaning the only position of power that he should only have is Headmaster of Atlas academy. As I stated in I am machine Ironwood's heroism stems from a lack of trust and in doing so has burdened him with more responsibility than he can handle.

The catalyst

All of the events and conflicts that plague remnant at the shows present can all be traced to Ironwood. An argument can be made for Salem but to me she seems more of an opportunist instead of an actual evil master mine. Being the opportunist she is she needs ammo for which she is otherwise incapable of making on her own. Thanks to Ironwood she has plenty of it to enact her plans and reach her goals

Below is a list of events and conflicts as well as characters that have been affected by Ironwood

(Whether Directly or Indirectly)

The Schnee Dust Companies Immoral and shady practices

I know Jaques is mostly to blame for all of this but one must ask; Why didn’t anyone stop him before V7?

It's already been established in the show that the S.D.C. and Atlas Military have a corporate alliance to mass produce Weapons and ammunition. The most prominent weapons to come out of this alliance was the paladin assault mechs. Now how important was this alliance to Ironwood?

In short, they are the best choice to provide for his needs for war. As long as he gets weapons and all that he needs to sustain a war he doesn't care what the giver has to do to meet his demand. As such Ironwood had enabled Jaques and allowed him to continue his immoral ways so long as he gets what he needs. On the other hand Jaques seems to be at least a decade older than Ironwood so there is a possibility that the corporate alliance has already been there long before Ironwood ever came to power.

But I ask again why didn’t Ironwood who was aligned with a man like Ozpin didn’t stop him? As the Volume 7 commentary stated Ironwood doesn’t care for Ozpin's rules and sees being efficient is more important than being morally good. Because of this Ironwood had been more focused on starting a war first and caring about people second thus he has only spread misery by enabling Jaques’s greed just to have his war. The crimes of the S.D.C. are also Ironwood’s

The family strain of the Schnee family and Winters abandoning

While we’re still on the subject of the Schnee's let's talk about how essentially Ironwood made Winter the Blake to his Adam

As I stated before in “You had me with your words” we don’t exactly know why Winter would be so loyal to Ironwood to the point of saying that her life doesn’t matter in V7 and why she would be so against her family to the point that she makes no effort to see Weiss, and Whitely included and only bothering to be apart of Weiss’s life only because she seems to be following the same path of defiance against their father. In other words she only chooses to interact with her sister only if she is rebelling against their father. If she is not, then Winter wants nothing to do with her.

Now who or what exactly would cause Winter to have this unhealthy mindset in regards to her own personal existence and relationships?

The answer being Ironwood.

If we were to consider Jaques words being serious than it is more than likely the truth. Ironwood did steal Winter, not just from her father but from the rest of her family. I don’t know what exactly Ironwood said or did to turn winter away from her family but it wasn’t out of the kindness of his heart. He did this just to have a loyal subordinate with incredible power( her hereditary semblance) & status( her grandfather's legacy and accomplishments) just to give his power and status more legitimacy.

By doing so Ironwood made Winter believe that her family as well as herself is beyond redemption due to the actions of her father thus leading her to abandon them and only believing Ironwood can redeem her hence why she values her life so little and is willing to die for whatever Ironwoods says.

I understand that winter joined the military to get away from her dad but she had options besides the military and like weiss she could have went to the other academies to get away from her dad but she didn't which i consider Winters greatest flaw is that she has no idea of an actual healthy relationship

The White Fang

This is also speculative but not unlikely as the show has clearly shown; Faunus and Atlas don’t mix.

Same thing with the S.D.C. this can really be seen as indifference on Ironwood’s part and lack of care but still Ironwood didn’t do anything to settle the racial inequality in Atlas even though he is allied in a secret circle that's supposed to keep the peace.

Especially when that inequality was being used to help legitimize a terrorist organization that can be used as a disposable army for Salem which it did.

Watts’s Defection & the P.E.N.N.Y. Project

Ironwood commissioned 5 scientists including Watts and Pietro to make Weapons for war.

Even though Watts is an egotistical bastard it really makes you wonder how someone as smart as him would work for a literal demon lady hell bent on conquest. The same can also be said about why he chose Penny instead of any other actual and practical projects ideal for war.

One thing to note is the possibility that Ironwood did not tell the 5 about the real reason as to why they’re making these weapons in the first place. For example would Pietro really want Penny the closest thing to an actual child that he may have had to be used as one of Ironwoods militarized assets?

We’ve seen what Pietro is like and that he really cares about Penny and if it were his choice Penny wouldn’t be in the situations that Ironwood would place her in. Ironwood had basically taken and drafted Penny without her or Pietro's consent and made her a tool for war and much more.

In semi canon sources(Amity Arena) the general consensus is that the Paladins were Watts’s idea and project. One of the misconceptions is that it was a contest for whose idea would be made but since we see both the Paladins being used and Penny that's not the case. All 5 projects were going to be used but only 1 would take top priority first before others and that project was Penny.

This might actually explain why the paladins were ugly and incomplete in V2 as opposed to their slicker and finished versions in V3. The Penny project took both praise and priority first before the others. Once penny was finished the other projects would begin that may also explain why the Paladins weren’t first revealed until the events of V2 even though Pietro said that the commissions for the projects including the Paladins were almost a decade ago as of V7 ep 7

To Watts he felt insulted that his (to him) practical project was being postponed for a sad man's personal self indulgent pet project. This and due to not really knowing as to why these projects were going to be used for. Because of this and Ironwood’s lack of concern for people He had essentially driven Watts to Salem and made him one of her most valuable assets that she ever had. Salem herself even states that she should have employed his services years ago that alone tells us how valuable an asset Watts was and Ironwood discarded it. Which led to the fall of Beacon and the civil unrest in Mantle With Watts out of the way let's move to the next question

Why the Penny Project?

We all know at this point that Penny is the Pinochio for Pietro’s jopedo. So why would Ironwood approve a project that seems the least efficient and effective for war? There have been many theories as to why but two of them stand out the most; Potential vessel for the maiden powers and Espionage

It has been made clear that Ironwood has been readying for war against other people Salem specifically but how does one go about that? The first of which can be explained as Ironwood trying to make the ultimate artificial warrior with incredible power. As Ironwood has more faith in machines than people he would see Penny as the ultimate super soldier that he can use in his war

The second theory as to why he chose penny could be for spy and espionage purposes. As stated by cinder in volume 3 where this theory originates from; why would Atlas make a robot look like an innocent little girl? We know why Pietro made Penny look human but why would Ironwood go along with making a T800 complete with realistic skin and hair? Besides Pietro there was no logical reason to make penny look as humanly as possible. Like the Terminators who were designed for infiltration and assassination missions and Ironwood being a paranoid individual who sees the world as one of two things; you’re either an asset or a threat / Penny or similar models would have been used to spy and eliminate potential threats in the other kingdoms. With the possibility as to what Ironwood would use penny for before her reveal in V3 clear let's move on to the last part of this bullet point

Why didn’t Ozpin know about Penny?

Prior to the truth of her origins being revealed via her death by Pyrah the only people who knew she was an android are cinder’s team, Ruby, Pietro, and Ironwood. The villains knew that truth after being fortunate enough to have Ironwoods scroll infected by the virus and Ruby found out by accident from penny.

So officially the only people that were allowed to know the truth about Penny were Pietro and Ironwood. Winter and the Ace-opts don’t count as Volume 7 confirmed that they were brought into the fold after the fall of beacon along with penny so by the time of the fall of beacon they had no idea about salem or that was the sole purpose as to why penny was made.

The same can be said for Watts too since Penny was still an idea being developed along with being assumed dead and not seen in atlas for years. Thus Watts never even knew what penny looked liked. Had he known i'm pretty sure he would’ve revealed that to Salem who would have given it to cinder for use in her mission. But as V3 shows Cinder finds out after getting access to Ironwood's personal scroll. Meaning that Ironwood kept Penny so secret that he never even bothered or considered to tell Ozpin.

By the end of PVP Ironwood sounded like a terrified child who got caught while trying to explain to a pissed off Ozpin about Penny only to be coldly told in a threatening tone to use the army that he brought to clean up his mess or else. That alone is proof enough from Ironwood that he never told Ozpin about Penny and was scared of what Ozpin would do to him for catching him on his secrets and lies.

So why didn’t Ironwood tell Ozpin about Penny? Short answer Ozpin would never approve the use of Penny. It was already established in V3 ep 6 that Atlas has been doing unethical experiments with Aura. Ozpin and most of the inner circle don’t really approve of such practices but can tolerate it and use it if they have to. But most likely not to the extent of using it to make artificial living beings just to be soldiers.

This would be a similar moral dilemma as the clone troopers from star wars who were bred and mass produced at an accelerated rate to fight in a war that they didn’t even understand or have a choice to fight in with the mindset and innocents of a child. The Umbara arc from season 4 of the clone wars series perfectly depicts the unhealthy amount of abuse the clones faced and the length of being taken advantage they were forced to endure

Now apply that to an army of pennies with the same childlike innocence and naivety and sentience being deployed into combat without much preparation and are expected to die just to buy time for the real heroes to win.

Now who is more likely to use a clone army without concern for the morality and ethics about making it let alone not care for the well being of those clones

A key important factor to remember is that until V7’s end Ironwood was pro war as he thought he could win against Salem if he had the largest army at his disposal. Penny was no exception and Ironwood only saw her as a potential part needed for his war machine. Because of the war centric views of Volume 2 & 3 Ironwood and lack of concern for the safety of others Ironwood had set the stage perfectly for volume 3’s finale

The Fall of Beacon

The points above actually help validate and contribute to the Fall of Beacon, but it's true Beginning for its fall started when Ironwood arrived at Beacon in Volume 2. As stated by Oz in Ironwoods first appearance Headmasters don’t usually attend the vytal festival with their students. Given what we now know about the importance of the academies, Ironwood pretty much abandoned his post and risked the safety of the relic under his charge.

All in what appears to be an effort to make a power grab against Ozpin and promote Atlas.(That’s probably speculative but not far off the bat given Ironwoods doubts and actions by the end of V2).Ever since his debut Ironwood has always been a character that contradicts the main characters that are suppose to be the heroes

He seems to only believe the best way to handle any sort of situation is if he is in full control of it. This is seen as early as Volume 2, where he both brings a large fleet (composed mainly of machines) along with students for security. Ironwood has helped Ozpin fight Salem for years but they disagreed over the best way to defend Vale; Ironwood secretly convenes a meeting of the Vale and Atlesian councils to report Ozpin's behavior, resulting in Vale removing Ozpin from overseeing the Vytal Festival security in favor of Ironwood.

Volume 2 also has Ironwood reveal to Glynda that he thinks Ozpin is hiding something from them. Glynda points out that he's part of the inner circle that's hiding things from the rest of the world and that he needs to stop talking about trust and learn how to trust others. Ignoring her advice, he secretly collaborates with the Vale Council to strip Ozpin of his control over the Vytal Festival security, then tells Ozpin to trust him.

This also brought up the possibility that Ozpin would be removed as Headmaster of Beacon academy. Not only was Ironwood willing to depose the leader he was following from his position of power but also remove an important ally from safeguarding one of the most important and crucial places in all of the world that also holds probably the most important relic of all of them(The Crown of Choice)

I already talked about how Penny’s secret had contributed to the fall so I’ll be talking about how Watts contributed to it since I forgot to include in the last bullet point. Its a very small Easter egg but on Cinders scroll as she was rigging the vytal tournament for CVFY’s match and discovering Penny’s android nature there is a small cursive W at the corner of her scroll. The small W that Watts uses as a holographic icon when he calls Leo in V5. RT has said that they had WTCH in their back pocket for years until they were revealed taking that into account it is clear that the virus that infected Beacons CCT Ironwoods scroll and forcing the droid army to commit order 66 was made by Watts.

The virus and the cyber warfare aside the next final contribution on Ironwood’s part was the imprisonment of Roman Torchwick

It's pretty much been clear that Torchwicks' imprisonment was an improvised plan on the villains part to get an inside man aboard a warship. Basically it was like Heath Ledger's joker in the dark knight; he wanted to get caught. Torchwick himself said that he is where he wants to be to Ironwood at the end of V2. As V3 showed Torchwick and Neo took over what can be assumed to be Ironwood’s personal flag ship and used it to destroy the rest of the air naval section that was brought for the Vytal security team.

This could have been avoided had Torchwick not been released into Ironwood's custody or at the very least kept somewhere else that should he escape he couldn’t have done so much damage. The Airships aside it was also possible that Roman had used the onboard artillery on the city as well that means that innocent civilians weren’t just being mowed down by hacked robots but being carpet bombed as well increasing the death toll at the fall of Beacon.

The Dust embargo and closing of borders

Since the fall of Beacon Academy, Ironwood has become increasingly unstable and paranoid, making more and more ethically questionable decisions that he repeatedly justifies as the greater good; by his own admission, he will do anything it takes to stop Salem.

This however does not fare well with the rest of Remnant though.

As Atlas is the primary location for most of Remnants Industry as well as having a monopoly on Dust; Remnant’s most crucial resource that everyone needs in order to survive, the other kingdoms rely heavily on Atlas for technology, resources and weapons. By placing an embargo he has cut off everyone in the world from their most valued resource. Though he did this to stop the enemies chain of supply he is still letting people suffer and die by with-holding the one thing they need to live and survive.

Which brings us to the borders

Though it could have eased tensions after the fall of Beacon it just lasted too long as well as the fact that Ironwood had essentially turned his back on the world and refused to help the other kingdoms in their time of need. In the CFVY book spin-off all of the Beacon students either went to Haven or Shade academy to finish their training. As well as the Vale refugees going to other kingdoms as well. But due to Atlas closing its borders none of the students or the people went to Atlas for help. Basically due to Ironwood’s orders the Kingdom of Atlas was forced to not help the other kingdoms when they needed it the most.

And it has only gotten worse due to the events at Mistral in V5 as not only are the students of both Beacon and Haven going to shade, putting a strain on the academy but leaving the entirety of the worlds largest kingdom unguarded and undefended as it now lacks able huntsmen to protect it due to Ironwood’s refusal to help

It should also be noted that when Ironwood closed the borders he had failed to inform any off his subordinates of who can and can’t enter the kingdom especially in regards to allies like Glynda or Qrow who again are allies against Salem and Ironwood made little to no effort in keeping contact with the other Oz members. This is made evident in V6 when the Argus soldiers refused to believe Qrow about being an ally to Ironwood. you could say that he was waiting on the amity project to make contact with the other members but he had to have realized that they needed to get into atlas at some-point. But did he make it easy for them or any other ally to reach him? No he did not.

The Mistral Huntsmen Genocide and the Battle of Haven

Second verse, same as the first, he had put them in a hearse. Another example of Ironwood’s indifference and hypocrisy that led to the death of allies and innocent people.

Due to the events of the Fall and it being broadcasted the enormous state of panic had spread throughout all of the kingdoms. The negative emotions in mass had attracted the Grimm and caused much havoc and loss throughout all of them and the worst to suffer from this mass hysteria was most likely Mistral due to its larger population and territory.

In V5 Lionheart had confirmed that Mistral losses were heavy and many of the local huntsmen including the Professors from Haven were killed in the initial grimm invasion that plagued Mistral following the fall of Beacon. After the initial panic had settled down the Mistral council had been employing Huntsmen in mass and restricted their activity to crucial and vital missions in high profile areas to ensure the safety and stability of the Kingdom.

Now the real question comes in where was Atlas?

In the world of remnants shorts its confirmed that Mantle and Mistral have an alliance that eventually carried into Atlas. With that being said, where was Mistral’s ally during the fall out and what were they doing. We know in V5 that all Military Assets were recalled within the month prior to the battle of Haven. I know that the kingdoms are weary of Atlas at this point but given the state of the world after the fall, Mistral needed all the help they could get. As such Mistral would have to call upon the old alliance and have them honor their word and offer aid.

Or at the very least transfer some assets over to Mistral to use it as needed. We have the base in Argus sure but that was just a forward border control base that didn’t really help anybody. Prior to the recalling Ironwood had Winter gather intel on potential activity that would lead to a second fall of a huntsmen academy and he chose to do nothing. This is further proof of his hypocrisy and arrogance. Ironwood at this point is reading the military for war and with holding aid and support that was actually needed.

His V4 self is a stark contrast to his V2&3 self as that version of himself was willing to manipulate and intervene in the affairs of other nations under the assumption that the ends justify the means and would see himself above the rules so long as it's for the greater good and stop the threat before it can escalate. That was exactly what Ironwood did at the end of V2 by stealing power from Oz and tried to enforce his own set of rules if it would prevent a disaster.

Now why did Ironwood not do the same thing with Mistral and try to prevent the potential fall of its academy regardless of the bad publicity that it would warrant? It's already been said by Ironwood that he doesn’t trust Leo to handle the situation at Mistral and based his dissection to close the borders on Winters report and decided to prepare for an potential attack on Atlas rather than sending a small task force to handle the threat at Mistral.

Taking into consideration his plan for Amity it's quite possible that he wanted Leo to fail and Mistral to be ready to eat from his palm. In other words unless there is something to gain and benefit from he’s not going to do it.

Ironwood all the way till he was told the truth about Salem in V7 had a War is the Answer mentality and was hoarding everything and anything that would help sustain a long campaign as well as increasing the size of that force with the intent that that the large numbers were enough to intimidate Salem and her faction into surrendering and eventual destruction. The only problem is that the people he needs were born in a time of relative peace.

Because of the 80 year age of peace that followed the Great War the Modern world of Remnant has had zero to no conflicts as large or damaging since that one war. There were small conflicts sure like the faunus war, the White fang terrorist cell, and the criminal underworld but they weren’t that much or a threat or concern to a majority of remnant it wasn’t until the Fall of Beacon that the foundation of this peace was shaken so intensely that the cracks started to show but it was still together if only held by a thread.

With the Peace in mind and the peoples faith still with the huntsman as their distrust for Atlas Military lingers no one in the world of remnant outside of Atlas would have any motivation or desire to mobilize for war let alone a war for a foreign leader of a foreign land that has recently come under suspicion. Ironwood was never going to be able to unite the Kingdoms and mobilize their people for his war after the fall of Beacon with Atlas being painted as the bad guy. Unless the situation went from worst to extreme.

Like if another academy were to fall with the same or greater results like Beacon. Then maybe people all around the world would consider following Ironwood’s lead and wipe out the threat before things can get even worse.

Because of this Ironwood had allowed Mistral and possibly the other Kingdoms to exhaust themselves so much that they would be unprepared for the next major Grimm invasion should they come after the next major hysteria induced panic. Panic like Ironwood’s original plan to unite the world and tell them about Salem causing the kingdoms to fall into further disarray only to be saved by the flying grace of Ironwood and his Military. And the only repayment for his help is that you join his fight.

I know this is all speculative and you can say Lionheart was the one who was responsible for mistrals problems after the fall, but remember Leo was the only Faunus on the council of a racist kingdom and only had one seat over the huntsmen and can only give out and approve mission assignments that would get them killed thus he had no real authority or power in Mistral besides siding with the majority and even if he tried to talk the council into refusing Ironwoods help their racism wouldn’t listen to Leo and they would do the opposite and call for aid.

But again Ironwood prior to the fall was willing to stop the threat at its source regardless of politics. But after the fall he had put all of his focus on preparing for war instead of helping people that needed his help at that moment. This may be due to his semblance(still dumb BTW) but ultimately he was focusing on his own needs first than the needs of others. Because of this he had ignored the issues of Mistral and failed to see the truth of what Lionheart was doing and had allowed Most if not all of the well trained and experienced huntsmen of that kingdom to die leaving the kingdom defenseless and unprepared for any conflict that would come.

Like the Battle for Haven for example. Had Ironwood not recalled everyone back and had Winter and whatever Atlas personal that were with her its quite possible that the battle may never had happen, the truth about leo would have been discovered sooner and the genocide of Mistrals huntsmen wouldn’t have been as bad had Ironwood actually chose to help, Instead he started to fall back and focus on the Amity Project and Atlas instead of spending any resource outside of them, due to a narrow focus to and putting everything on it just so he can have his Victory.

The Civil unrest in Mantle

A loved and respected leader will die by the side of his people: A feared and hated one will die by their hand. Short term closing the borders cloud have helped ease tensions between Atlas and the rest of the world but long term it had made things worse

Due to the fall of Beacon it's quite possible the initial attacks that came after can explain why Mantle's defensive wall was so destroyed and ruined by the time of V7. That means that potentially for almost over a year that wall has had no repairs or maintenance and has had the bare minimum leaving the citizens in a state of constant peril and danger since the fall of beacon

This is further made worse when Ironwood closed off the borders and cut off the chain of supplies and trade not only to Atlas but also to Mantle as well making the kingdom suffer more than it had to. As the original capital, the rise of Atlas reduced Mantle to a shadow of its former self. Streets are run-down, technology is old, security defenses haven't been updated in years, and smog from the mines hangs heavy over the city. People struggle to eke out an existence, depend on dangerous mines for work and experience regular Grimm attacks that the city increasingly struggles to repel. Meanwhile, Atlas hangs in the sky above their heads; a constant reminder of the wealthy elite that is failing to share the wealth that Mantle creates, and a target of Mantle's growing resentment and anger at having been left so far behind.

Ironwood who is again allied with and a member of a secret circle that is supposed to keep the peace and prevent any social unrest that can cause a conflict. Thus he should have tried to ease the tensions and made the conditions of Mantle better in order to maintain peace. Now I know it's not solely Ironwood’s fault for the state that Mantle is in as he hasn’t been in a position of power for long but still he should have focused on the people instead of preparing for a war that may have never come. A stark contrast to Ozpin’s way of preserving peace and handling threats

Because of his narrow focus and indifference he made things worse as he was only focusing on potential threats that have yet to come instead of focusing on the issues and preventing them before they escalated. After the fall, the embargo and closing of Borders Ironwood concerned himself with preparations for an assumed winnable war instead of trying to restore peace and keep the people on his side. Which is ironic as he was doing this to rally a large force and stop the threat but did not consider that he may have been pushing away potential troops and allies that he would have needed. And only stoked the people's frustrations

This is mostly due to Ironwood never giving an estimate of time for how long the embargo and the borders would last as well as not giving a clear and believable reason as to why he was doing all of this in the first place. I know he was going to tell Mantle and the world about Salem eventually and he did in V7 but that was only because he was forced to and used it to take out potential threats by baiting them. This is also added with the fact that he really didn’t have any solid proof that would make the people believe him about Salem as well. Due to the frustration of the people it would just sound like made up propaganda and Ironwood shifting blame onto a fake enemy to drive people's attention onto something else. And yes the people believed it but remember they were being evacuated so i don’t think they were buying Ironwood's statement but were just glad that they were being saved.

And in the end it doesn’t even matter as ultimately Ironwood caved in to fear and decided to leave Mantle for dead. Which could have been avoided had Ironwood focused his attention to the needs of people rather than the needs of war. One of the constant themes of the show is that victory is not in strength or in mass numbers but within the small and willing hearts of those that will fight no matter what.

In conclusion Ironwood had played a pivotal role in contributing to all of the conflicts that plague the world of Remnant at present, even if it were minor role he nonetheless helped set the stage for the villains and Salem

The reason why I say that; as stated in earlier sections: Despite all of his talk about the greater good for the world he really means the greater good of Atlas and by extension himself. He is prioritizing his kingdom above all else at the expense of the other kingdoms and exploits of their people for his kingdom's own personal gain. As well as with holding beneficial technology that could actually benefit and improve the living conditions and way of life of the other kingdoms.

Ironwood’s inability to trust and have faith in people and others to keep the peace ultimately led to him intervening in affairs that he had no right to and with his own belief that his way is what is best had caused the Fall of Beacon and the events and conflicts before and after it.

It was over before it started

Now the Question must be asked what was Ironwood’s plan?

Ironwood throughout the series believed that he could win against Salem, and by the end of volume 7 he still believed that he could win, but in reality he had already lost the moment he tried to start a war.

To quote Ruby as she asked Ozpin: what was Ironwood’s plan to stop Salem if he ever had one to begin with? As far back as Volume 2 to Volume 7 Ironwood’s ideas and plans to handle Salem seemed to be; gather a large force, blitz run her stronghold, and destroy her with WMD’s. Most of his plans stem from an appeal to force and intimidation tactics via large numbers with heavy armament. In any other circumstances this could have worked had it been a different kind of villain that wasn’t immortal. As V6 has revealed Salem can’t die through traditional means such as modern warfare thus making Ironwood’s plans and solutions moot and pointless. Once he is told the truth in V7 he still continues down the same path of thinking that has not only failed but enabled the villains goals as well. So it must be asked why does Ironwood not see that his way is flawed and that he was never going to win if he continues down this path?

Ironwood's numerous conflicts throughout the series occur because he feels he does not need to follow the standards he sets for others; He demands people trust him while showing them none in return. He forces others to sacrifice much for the cause while giving up very little in return. He insists on loyalty when he has turned on others solely because they disagreed with him.

As Volume 7 progresses, he becomes willing to commit increasingly dubious actions in order to oppose Salem. He starts off by imposing a military embargo on Mantle despite the economic hardships said embargo is causing for the civilians on the ground and diverting resources that Mantle needs to rebuild its infrastructure to build a comm tower at Amity Colosseum. By the end of the volume, he's degenerated into declaring full martial law, abandoning Mantle to die, and either attacking or having arrested anyone who opposes him.

Salem and her faction were a tumor that can only be handled with the surgical precision of a scalpel not with the bulk of a fleet or large armies. The Huntsmen were that scalpel and to be specific the Huntsmen that Oz had chosen as they were meant to protect all people and prevent conflicts without personal bias or desire. Ironwood only acted in the self interest of Atlas and the benefits that he would gain from it

Ozpin’s priority had always been the people, no matter where they came from. However, I think he was once in Ironwood’s shoes. I am pretty sure he tried everything, including the same things Ironwood did, and saw it fail horribly. Ozpin or at least the soul, has had centuries to millennia's of experience in fighting Salem and managing the world. The delicacy of the human mind and heart are something he is well acquainted with, and I think he already knew what type of person Ironwood was, or at least was becoming. Near as I can tell, the big reason he kept Ironwood on at this point was because Ironwood had the resources and technology he needed to keep his plan moving forward and wouldn’t relinquish them.

Ozpin worked hard to maintain the peace and goodwill of the people. Ironwood, so far, has not. Having robot sentries on every corner without the concept of morals and stopping trade for a kingdom that can not easily generate its own resources, as well as hoarding those resources and preventing necessary repairs and aid to those people–those actions all show that he is not keeping this important aspect of leadership. He is not making sure that the people are on his side so when he needs them because he does not consider their needs as important unless they are in line with his own

Even with the Knowledge of the truth of Salem’s immortality he is still sacrificing everyone and everything else for nothing just to keep up the illusion that he is the hero and to keep his source of power high in the clouds away from anyone who really needs it

I may have been a little harsh on Ironwood for his actions, especially V7 and I understand the circumstances that led to escalation by the end of the volume. He was making dubious decisions but he was trying to do better, he listened at times and tried to show an extension of trust, the kids with giving them the lamp back, and later with Robyn at the dinner. These were due to the positive influences of Oz. He just fell back to old habits hard and turned to extremes when it became clear he had non control of what was happening by V7 end. He was struggling with old habits and opening up and was doing better that first part of the night a prime example of what the creators meant if Ironwood had been more open and trusting of others but when everything went down he was pushed over the edge in the latter half of the night cementing his fall and decent into an antagonist further making the problem worse as he has always done. This is mostly due to his primary source of influence; Atlas (which we can agree has been the biggest source of conflict in the show so far) and probably his lack of understanding and planning for what comes after all is said and done.

What did you think would happen?

The question must be asked; What happens after Salem? The fandom has pretty much each their own idea of what might happen after Salem is finally defeated. But do the characters know what happens after the war especially Ironwood? As the end of the hero’s journey goes; Nothings the same after you become a hero. And given Ironwood’s behavior and actions before his fall in Gravity, Ironwood seemed to have ambitions and plans in the works for the long run after Salem was no longer a threat. As stated before in I am Machine no one is truly altruistic to the point that they do something that doesn’t benefit them. So what exactly did Ironwood want after Salem was gone to the point that most if not all his actions and decisions were in the effort to reach and make those plans come true?

As stated in Broken Kingdom Ironwood doesn’t really have any personal desires or motivations that aren’t related to Atlas or the Heroes common goal to stop Salem. As far as we can tell Ironwood has no current family members at present and there's very little that tells us that he has anything in mind outside of either Atlas or Salem ,so what does Ironwood have to gain from this conflict?

All hail the conquering Hero

Ironwood’s biggest issue is that he has to be the center of everything, that he has to be in control. First he’s going to try and gain control with his army, while trying to wrangle anyone else back under his control. Then, when it becomes clear that anyone who has a plan that better and could work, he’s going to get competitive, come up with new and crazy superweapons to throw against the enemy in an attempt to prove that he can defeat Salem before the heroes can gather allies from across Remnant. He believes that He is strong, that He is brave, that He doesn’t need to run to anybody for help! He believes that he is the hero and is letting his self entitlement cloud his mind and it has gotten the better of him

An In-Universe example of this false belief comes from RWBY: Amity Arena as it gives bios to every character in the game compiled by the In-Universe developers. While many try to be objective, the ones representative of the Atlas Elite tend to demonstrate a notable bias, most prevalent with the General's. His bio is very defensive of him, calling him the "hero of our time" and that he wears the burden of the world on his shoulders, talking him up as a Hero with Bad Publicity. The bio goes as followed;

General Ironwood. The hero of our time and Atlas' greatest protector. Under the general, we have advanced to incredible heights, discovered new technologies, and created the world's first artificial intelligence. Though horrifyingly revealed at Amity Arena, Penny is our proud foray into sentient AI, and Ada is the culmination of the machine learning we have long developed in our labs.

As reviled as he was for his misguided attempt to protect Vale, how can the world fault our General when the culprits are out there? How can the victims be blamed for the sins of the perpetrators? Is incompetence somehow a greater sin than premeditated evil? Our General may have failed to protect Beacon, but he's not the one that hacked our weapons into hurting the innocent.

Yet... he wears that burden on his shoulders like he is alone in the world...

Ozpin, missing. Lionheart, dead. Theodore, uncertain. We say Atlas is the greatest, the mightiest... the city in the clouds, but what is first place when there is no competition? Yet, our kingdom and our General... we're the best chance that humanity's got... which scares us to death.

Menagerie?

...what about it?

After reading that you can probably see through the propaganda, hypocrisy and ego that are written in the bio. A key factor to note is that this was possibly made after the main heroes arrived in Atlas and before the election night. And since there's been no contact or travel between the kingdoms and Ironwood was aware of Leo's status by worst case scenario it tells us that the heroes have shared everything with Ironwood in regards to those events concerning Haven.

Since Ironwood is looked up to as a god by his subordinates and since he was the one of the only few to have known about them as well as to have the status to make any key choices since the app is made by atlas scientists contracted to the military. Thus Ironwood had used it and the blind loyalty of his loyalists to make propaganda and shift the blame from himself to something else as well as try to emotionally manipulate the people by making them sympathize with him while ignoring the truth.

He is not Remnant's only hope nor is he the best choice.

This is another example of his never my fault montra and he does things right and its further shown in the bio as it not only continues to discredit the other Headmasters(I am well aware of leo) but ignores all the good and actual heroism of other people like the Faunus of Menagerie as they are to the primary reason as to why Haven didn’t become the next Beacon and as stated before in an earlier section the opportunity for the Battle of Haven was in a way created by Ironwood who had chosen to flee and protect his city instead of preventing an attack like he had originally intended with Vale.

It may also show how much Ironwood believes in his own hype as it does paint him as some sort of de facto king of Atlas. Again he views himself as the chosen savior of the chosen people and that it is his destiny to rule and change the world as he sees fit. Or as Watts puts it the Giant that stands above all

I’m the Captain now

I think it's safe to say that almost everything he does is a twisted version of Ozpin's ways as well as to place himself as Remnant's ultimate leader as he believes he is the one that can ensure a safe and secure world. Ever since his debut he has undermined everything that Ozpin has done and stood for because he believes his ways aren’t efficient ( Or beneficial) to him and has been systematically taking power and control away from him and placing himself as the new big good.

He wants to be the New warrior king and change the world as he sees fit as he only sees Ozpin as either a failure or a hindrance to him and his plans. Combine that with his Atlas ideology and a lot of things make sense. I mentioned in the False chosen one that Ironwood may have been influenced and tried to emulate the Warrior king as to better rise and gain power and correct the supposed mistakes of Ozpin. Even though that he has claimed to be doing it for the greater good of all of Remnant but he really means only Atlas and himself

A world Reborn in my image

A major factor to consider is that Ironwood is a by-product of Atlas that was a by-product of Ancient Mantle. Ironwood is essentially a living mouthpiece for Atlas. He pretty much the living embodiment of the kingdom if it were a character. That's the sad truth of Ironwood is that he is simply an extension of this toxic environment and tricked into believing that its this ideal society when in truth it never was. In other words a legacy of tyranny lives on through Ironwood

We’re all aware of the origins of Atlas and its rise to prominent power. It started out as Mantle that began with a handful of people that prospered by adapting to the harsh conditions by making advanced technology faster than the rest of the world. It eventually formed a trade alliance with Mistral trading tech for food. A grimm incident occurs and Mantle thought being cold emotionless robots was a perfect solution. It tried to force its toxic ideology onto other civilizations and was met with mixed results. The Great war happens they lose and all of their resources are spent forcing it to rebuild its economy that eventually gives way to Atlas

Now how does this affect Ironwood?

Well Mantle through its alliance with ancient Mistral possibly adopted their ideals of imperialism and expansion as Mistral was the world's largest territorial economic empire of its time. When it comes to the rise of an empire and the type they are as well as their need for expansion it can be summed up to these 3

Economic empire

Ideological empire

Territorial empire

Due to Mantle's lack of essential resources like food and energy, its early days were more or less focused on establishing a strong economic trade empire in order to get the essential supplies needed to sustain life in solitas. After its great depression period after the War the kingdom's economy began to grow at a rapid rate that by the time the kingdom shifted to Atlas it had Remnants largest economic empire.

This is also an important factor to consider since the sad truth of it all is that as long people can make a stable income and support themselves, they are more than likely to turn a blind eye to any shady or immoral activities so long as there's something to gain. What does this have to do with Ironwood you ask? Well as his bio card said Ironwood has pretty much been proclaimed as the kingdoms benefactor for its prosperity. This may have been due to his Corperate alliance with The Schnee’s since it was Mostly Nicolas and Jaques as far as we know being the most prominent reason as to why Atlas has prospered.

When Ironwood formed that alliance with the SDC it gave him at least half of the power and influence of the company that was truly responsible for the kingdom's wealth and claiming it as his own. Once he had gotten some control over the economy it was time to move onto the next step and increase the empire from economic to Ideological or Political expansion.

Empires change and adapt in order to satisfies their needs now that Ironwood is the de facto head of that empire and given what we know about him and Atlas it is quite possible that he has been indoctrinated to have this desire to create an empire for Atlas as the politics and ideologies of its people have given it a false sense of entitlement and need to have everything under their control.

When looking at it from V1 to V3, it looks as if Ironwood was trying to occupy without resorting to force then you're left asking the real questions like "Why is ironwood selling the people of Vale on Atlas military Technology?" "Why is it that when a breach happens in vale, Atlas Bots rush in?" "Why did Ironwood make a power play to become the security of the Vytal Tournament?" It all seems to point to the same thing, Ironwood wanted control over Vale

A section of Lyrics from the song “When it Falls” may help reveal Ironwoods true intentions since his introduction and to be honest they seem relevant only to him and given his actions this is mostly likely the truth as they go like this;

“They play the part of allies

Claiming peace their only goal

But once the fight for power starts

They'll eat each other whole

Their iron gloves point fingers

They'll wage a war of blame

And mankind will wilt in pain”

As of V7 aren’t those words mostly relevant to Ironwood? After all, what has he done recently? He claims to be an ally with intentions of peace but he’s really trying to control those who buy that lie and escalates the situation to the extreme for no logical reason other than to set the stage for the next part in relation to the lyrics.

After all is said and done the fight for power will start and he wants to win and consume everyone before they can consume him. And as things go wrong he points his metal hands blaming everyone but himself as he tries to gain control and power, the world suffers.

Ever since his debut he has been trying to amass Political power which would lead to a territorial empire under Atlasian control. Playing into the theory that he does want to be a better version of Oz he wouldn’t make the same mistakes that he assumed the king did by letting the kingdoms remain independent instead of being under the control of one.

A king has his reign and then he dies

To continue on with the theory that he is essentially a bastardized version of Oz, Ironwood may have been trying to find ways as to make himself immortal

Another reason as to why he would see Ozpin as inferior is due to the fact that for all his power he can’t stop himself from dying, or at least maintain the same amount of world power and status from his last life. This may have given Ironwood ideas and ambitions to pursue any methods that may yield results that may make him a true immortal version of Oz hence why he most likely authorized the research and development of the aura transfer technology as a means to artificial reincarnate till proper immortality was achieved.

This could also be another reason as to why he may have chosen the Penny project. As it could lead to a way of extending his life as a means of transhumanism; immortality through technology

To reiterate Ironwood doesn’t trust anyone to do things right so he micromanages everyone under his control and makes them dependent on him. This is best seen with Winter and Clover as Winter would side with a madman as opposed to siding with her sister and clover’s inability to think for himself led to his death.

Due to his lack of faith in people Ironwood makes them less independent and make them rely on him as he may believe if everyone is dependent on him then the more control that he will have over them as to better determine who is a threat as the people he controls are more or less robots now without a conscious or sense individuality and are less likely to commit evil acts. Similar to ancient Mantle’s anti life policies before the war.

If he believes that to be the case and since he only trusts himself to see it through he’s going to try and find ways to make him live as long as possible until his methods become autonomous. Because of his lack of faith for others Ironwood doesn’t understand or refuses to understand the fact that he is going to die one day and everything that he has ever accomplished will be undone by the ultimate victor; TIME.

This is sadly the likely outcome as everything changes through the passage of time. As time moves so does the advancement of decay upon the world. Ironwood is already dying by aging and all that he has achieved will be undone or outdone by others that will come after him. The same thing can be said for everyone else in the show as they already lost.

Ruby, Oz, Cinder, even Salem herself have already lost to time. Everything they have or will achieve will be undone as well and one day they will all die. It’s just a matter of how and when.

To better explain let's take a look at Epsilon’s final speech from RVB season 13;

“There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.”

Does Ironwood have faith in anyone that's not under his control?

People only do wrong when the perceived benefits outweigh the cost in that moment. Ironwood doesn’t just see an opportunity to stop Salem he also sees an opportunity to bring the world under Atlasian control with him at the top. Since he has amassed so much power and authority he sees himself above the rules that everyone respects and follows. Because of this Ironwood tries to hold unto that power because without he is nothing and would become a lesser and weaker being which would be an affront to his perfectionist ideologies

If your nothing without it then you don’t deserve it

Take away Ruby’s Silver eyes and what is she? Someone that will continue to fight no matter what

Take away Atlas from Ironwood and what is he? Nothing but a broken man who had this coming for a long time.

As I stated in I am power Ironwood by himself has nothing to contribute to the fight against Salem. Let's face it the only thing that he had going for him was the fact that he lead the Military and as we later find out that Military isn’t going to be useful against Salem since the key concept of the show since V1 was that there is no victory in strength but in the simpler things in life that start with simple and honest souls.

How does this concern Ironwood?

Well that's just it Ironwood was never going to win with his methods and he was never going to get the benefits that he wanted if he followed someone else with theirs. Again Ironwood had plans and ambitions after Salem that saw him as the ruler of the world instead of her, and controlled it so that a threat like her or any threat to his power would never come again. This is probably what he thought would happen before being told of her immortality.

Now with the knowledge that he can’t destroy her and that she’s coming he decides to cut his losses and settle with ruling the city instead and leave the rest of the world in her mercy instead of accepting the fact that he is wrong and relinquishing power to someone that can handle the situation better. Remnant doesn’t need Ironwood to survive. This is the biggest problem with Ironwood that he thinks he is the hero so long as he is in control of Atlas. Because without it he is truly nothing and has defined his whole existence around it. And will continue to make whatever plans to keep himself in power and is willing to pay the price at the expense of others.

“What if all the plans you made,

Were not worth the price they paid?

Even with the lives you stole,

Still no closer to your...

Goal.”

He never cooled the fire but he still incites the crowd for he can't see what he has become a crown with no kingdom

Ironwood had only played to win and he would laugh at the ones who lose while millions are shouting out for him to stop but he Still lit the fuse

He says he wants to fight but Then he always runs because he doesn't want to die yet he Still shoots the loaded gun escalating things for the worse

His refusal to see the faults in his own actions. Ironwood continually defaults to and relies on methods and actions that have repeatedly been proven to not work because he refuses to see the error in using said methods to begin with.

This isn’t your story James

One of the important aspects to remember is that this isn’t Ironwood’s story. His entire character and story revolves around the main protagonists and how he interacts with them and more importantly what role he played in it. Ironwood started out as a side character that ended up getting a lot of focus because the story of Team RWBY and the show in general is to show how the last generation can fail the next and how that generation has to learn and grow so it can avoid the mistakes of the past.

Before we delve further into Ironwood’s true character in the show let us explore whether or not he was an antagonistic or protagonistic force in the story. Keep in mind these terms are different from hero and villain. Below are several definitions and meanings for the 2 narrative characters types;

Antagonist

a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.

a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary. the adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work

Protagonist

the leading character or one of the major characters in a drama, movie, novel, or other fictional text.

an advocate or champion of a particular cause or idea.

In modern literature, the protagonist drives the story forward by pursuing a goal.

The protagonist of a story is sometimes called the main character.

Since this is RWBY’s story and to an extent Oz’s, Ironwood(and Atlas to an extent) was always meant to be an antagonistic force in opposition to the show's true ideals of heroism and saviors.

The antagonist is the principal source of conflict for the protagonist. Often, the antagonist is a bad guy, a villain, but he doesn't necessarily have to be. He may just be someone who has a different agenda. Antagonists might be one person, a group, or even an animal.

Due to the beliefs that his methods are for the best even though they contradict the intentions that were thought to be shared by the heroes Ironwood was always going to become an Antagonist for the series at some point

Volume 7 slowly sees him fall into this, as his paranoia and determination to stop Salem cause him to perform increasingly questionable decisions for the greater good. While Qrow, Oscar, and Teams RWBY and JNPR support Ironwood, they increasingly debate the merit of doing so, given how concerned they're becoming with his behavior. When Cinder breaks into his office and plants a black queen, Ironwood sends Winter to forcefully take the Winter Maiden's powers, and he begins to question every decision he's made and speculate whether he's played right into Salem's hands. His confrontation with Team RWBY over their decision to leak intel to Robyn triggers the appearance of a Seer Grimm, forcing him into a verbal confrontation with Salem. With the discovery that the conflict with Watts and Tyrian distracted them from realizing they'd lost long-range sensors and that Salem is already on her way to Atlas, Ironwood snaps. He orders the arrest of Qrow, Oscar, and Teams RWBY and JNPR, and decides to abandon Mantle to die in an effort to prevent the two Relics and the Winter Maiden from falling into Salem's hands. Volume 7 ends with him and the protagonists actively opposed to each other, as his refusal to acknowledge that his methods are flawed and his opposition towards anyone who might stand in his way solidifies him as an antagonist.

The events of Volume 7 slowly but surely tear away at the positive aspects of his character as he succumbs to fear and paranoia, and questions whether Salem's strength comes from her ability to strip away her humanity. By the end of the volume, he has degenerated into a paranoid tyrant who abandons Mantle in favor of saving Atlas, is willing to kill a dying Winter Maiden to protect the Relics from Salem, and arrests the heroes for disagreeing with him. At the end of the volume, Oscar even points out that Ironwood's actions and current mentality make him no better than Salem.

His character deconstructs the mindset of the Necessary Evil character archetype. He declares his willingness to sacrifice his reputation and humanity for the greater good by forcing others to sacrifice for his cause. Characters constantly question the morality of his choices and his own actions create consequences that later bite him in the ass. His lack of concern over his image and the negativity his actions generate serve only to assist Salem's plans and increasingly alienate him from the heroes. He appoints himself the judge of what counts as the "greater good", he neglects Mantle's security and makes it increasingly vulnerable to attack by viewing it as less important than Atlas. Oscar lampshades the deconstruction by pointing out that being willing to sacrifice all of Remnant just so "a few can live" is making him just as dangerous a threat as Salem.

In a way Salem and Ironwood are also foils to each other as they appear to be dark lords from their respective genres

Ironwood being the syfy equivalent clad in white to convey the false message of order and peace while masking evil intentions and crimes

Salem being the Fantasy equivalent clad in black to emanate a sense of Mystery and fear of the unknown while using it to her advantage

Discussed between Ironwood and Oscar. Ironwood spends Volume 7 utterly haunted by how Leo's fear of Salem destroyed him and endangered Mistral and Haven. He is so determined not to end up like Leo, that he doesn't realize what mistakes his own fear of Salem is causing. While Leo completely submitted to Salem and became her puppet, he has full self-awareness and knows exactly how far he's fallen and why. Ironwood cannot accept that he has any fear of Salem at all and interprets the problem as possessing "humanity". He believes Salem is a threat because she has none and speculates that the solution is to become the same. He becomes increasingly controlling over his kingdom and his allies; regardless of how much suffering his methods cause, he persists in believing it's for "the greater good". While Leo is willing to give up the Relic of Knowledge and his kingdom's Huntsmen, Ironwood is so determined to prevent Salem getting the Relics, his Huntsmen and the Winter Maiden, and thereby avoid Leo's mistakes, that he travels in the opposite direction, becoming a dangerous authoritarian instead of a spineless coward.

Ironwood has made it clear that he will use whatever means necessary to defeat Salem. When Team RWBY calls out his decision to raise Atlas out of Salem's reach, he calmly says he's aware that he is essentially damning Mantle to her wrath. He later tells Oscar that he is done letting others' opinions hold him back from doing what he thinks is right. The boy warns him that he'd become as dangerous as Salem herself like that; the general simply nods to himself but doesn't deny it.

This is who he has always been. The only difference is the more desperate he becomes, the more extremes he goes to to maintain the illusion he is strong and in control of the situation.

During Ozpin's speech, notice how this unique line of dialogue is purposely inserted over Ironwood's last scene of Volume 7.

“Or will the person staring back at you be the very thing you should have feared from the start? I suppose we all find out... sooner or later.”

As the other parts of the speech are relevant to the other characters shown in the montage This specific line cements the Truth of Ironwood's character being a threat that was planned for a very long time. Going with the show's themes of Grey morality and the balance of light and dark, we are to learn of the possibility that with the potential to do great good also comes with the potential to do great evil.

As we were focused on the obvious threats in the show like the grimm, the white fang, Cinder, and Salem we are tricked to neglect the obvious signs of evil intent that are hidden and growing among the heroes. The real monsters of the world aren’t the ones with fangs and red eyes hiding under your bed, No the real monsters of the world look just like you and me. After all if we assume everyone is like us then how can we tell who the real monsters are, that are hiding in plain sight.

Ironwood’s evil nature and antagonism was subtle and growing under the skewed perception that he was the hero and that he was right. But this comes down to the fact that he is only in it for himself and what he has to gain from it.

I understand that James Ironwood was a tragic character even from his introduction, and the seeds for his volume 7 turn were planted in volume 2. I eventually recognized that RT was setting up this pivotal plot point way back in the day and now they are harvesting what they had sown.

Ironwood didn’t snap when he found out RWBY lied to him. He was content, even after he defeated Watts. He snapped as soon as he saw Cinder’s present. The Queen piece. He unraveled immediately and, sure, the discovery of RWBY’s lies didn’t help, but it wasn’t the cause for Ironwood’s descent.

He genuinely means well in opposing Salem and her forces, but his severe paranoia complex, exacerbated by the stress of being one of the only ones in the know about Salem and having to explain his actions to the skeptical populace and council, cause his decisions to degenerate over time. By the end of Volume 7, he becomes willing to abandon everyone in Mantle to die, violently lashes out at anyone who opposes him, and manages to undo all of the hard work he's accomplished by second-guessing his own actions.

James Ironwood is undoubtedly a fascinating character that has this certain appeal to most people. I can understand Ironwood's viewpoint but it is not the same as forgiving or condoning as good. Sure, I thought him intervening in affairs that he had no right to was a skewed perception, but I understood where he was coming from. I thought him ignoring the concerns and advice of people was reckless, but I also kind of understood his limitations and his upbringing. But in all honesty I was neutral about Ironwood ever since he debuted and didn’t think he had much to contribute to the story besides being the guy with an army along with the pride and arrogance that comes with.

Because of that Ironwood was always an antagonistic force in RWBY with ideals and plans that contradict the established ideals and motivations that are already shared with the world of Remnant. He just simply couldn’t fit in and when he tried he didn’t like it. When he tried to change it and take charge he only made things worse. Ironwood had potential to be good and a proper hero due the influence of Oz but his pride and ego that he got from Atlas got the better of him and now the show's true heroes will have to fix the problems that he has caused.

Summary

#rwby #rwby ironwood #james ironwood #general ironwood #Ironwood analysis

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aion-rsa · 3 years ago

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Inception: The Movies and Comics Fans Think It Ripped Off

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They say there’s nothing new under the sun and that Hollywood is bereft of fresh ideas. But sometimes truly innovative films are unfairly accused of being derivative just because they put a new twist on an age old concept. Such is the case with Christopher Nolan’s 2010 film Inception, which is receiving fresh scrutiny now that it’s streaming on Netflix for longtime fans as well as those who missed it in theaters the first time around.

Sometimes the chronology of inspiration doesn’t quite line up as neatly as skeptics would like to think. Even though Inception was released in 2010, Nolan had presented a treatment to Warner Bros. about “dream stealers” in 2002 before shelving it to work on other projects. With that in mind, could the following properties have inspired the Academy Award winning film as some have theorized, and if not, how else could the similarities be explained?

Paprika (2006)

Satoshi Kon’s surreal science fiction anime, Paprika, is often brought up as a possible inspiration for Inception. Even allowing for Nolan’s aforementioned development period, the animated film is actually based on a 1993 novel of the same name, so the fact that an earlier story used a type of technology to induce a shared dream state raises some eyebrows. But how much do these two films really have in common?

Two scenes in Paprika draw particular attention from those who think Nolan stole the idea. One is the use of a hotel corridor that appears to defy the laws of physics. In Inception, the fight scene which follows Joseph Gordon-Levitt’s Arthur as he tries to keep his team alive while the falling van in the dream level above him wreaks havoc with gravity is a hallmark of the movie. Detective Konokawa’s recurring dream is also central to the anime, but the warping floor doesn’t really create the same effect. And honestly, hallways are regular fodder for dream sequences.

The other commonality is more subtle, but it involves breaking open a new area of the dream. Elliot Page experiments with the dreamscape in Inception by swinging a giant mirror between a pair of columns and then shattering it, while the titular character in Paprika widens a cracked opening between two different dreams. Perhaps it’s because both characters wear red and tentatively reach out a hand to the opening that people draw a parallel between the films, but the similarities end there. The chaotic nature of Kon’s dream narrative otherwise bears little resemblance to Nolan’s ordered dream architecture.

Movies

Inception and the Best Fan Theories About Whether Cobb’s Dreaming

By Michael Ahr

Movies

Inception Ending: Why the Spinner Stopped

By David Crow

The Dream of a Lifetime (2002)

It seems silly to even consider a Donald Duck comic as inspiration for a mind-bender like Inception, but it’s hard to deny the coincidental parallels that appear in Uncle Scrooge #329, published in 2004 in America two years after its Danish release, which was also the same year Nolan presented his treatment. “The Dream of a Lifetime” in this comic also uses a machine to invade Scrooge McDuck’s dream for the purposes of stealing his money.

The similarities are more prevalent in this story, which follows the villainous Beagle Boys as they use a stolen psychiatric tool (which was also how Paprika presented its technology) to extract the safe combination from Scrooge in his dream and steal his fortunes. Inception undeniably also uses a safe combination to entrap its subject, Cillian Murphy’s Fischer, who is heir to his father’s company, and the coincidences don’t end there.

“The Dream of a Lifetime” also presents its set of rules for the dream, just as Inception does. Whereas Nolan’s film talks about deep dreamers getting trapped in Limbo, the comic presents the danger of Scrooge waking up first, which would trap the Beagle Boys inside his mind forever, driving the old miser mad. However, dream subjects in Inception protect themselves with subconscious projections, whereas Scrooge is vulnerable to simply confessing the combination in his open dream state. The presence of rules is similar, but the rules themselves are not. Nolan did not rob Scrooge.

Dreamscape (1984)

Putting aside Freddie Krueger and the “dream warriors” of A Nightmare on Elm Street, the ’80s were filled with movies exploring other planes of existence, and Dreamscape shares a few similarities with Inception and the other properties on this list. The film again presents its dream-sharing technology as a medical tool that is then exploited, but it requires the use of psychic ability as well to enter the minds of others.

At this point, it should be clear that using technology to enter a dream is not a new idea, but Inception certainly can’t be accused of doing anything more than putting a twist on an exploitable core concept. Dreamscape presented a rule that dying while asleep would cause you to die in real life, which Nolan’s film circumvented through its use of Limbo, and other than that, the similarities fade quickly upon closer examination.

Last Year in Marienbad (1961)

Nolan has wisely ignored all accusations that he stole his idea for Inception from earlier works, but he did admit to watching Last Year in Marienbad, a movie with a dreamlike narrative that skips around in time in a very fluid manner. Aside from using another hotel corridor, the film’s story bears no resemblance to Inception, and even though Nolan watched the movie the year his film was released, he knew people would still question his influences.

“Everyone was accusing me of ripping it off, but I actually never got around to seeing it,” he told a New York Times reporter. “Funnily enough, I saw it and I’m like, ‘Oh, wow. There are bits of Inception that people are going to think I ripped straight out of Last Year at Marienbad.”

Fortunately, Nolan realizes it’s all part of a natural process of film analysis some moviegoers thrive on. “Basically, what it means is I’m ripping off the movies that ripped off Last Year at Marienbad, without having seen the original. It’s that much a source of ideas, really, about the relationships between dream and memory and so forth, which is very much what Inception deals with.”

Nolan got the last laugh in the end, though, adding, “But we have way more explosions.”

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space-life · 4 years ago

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Some things about Space Life

Space Life is a science fiction webcomic set in an indefinite future on a small spaceship traveling the cosmos. On board the spaceship we find Tom, an astronaut we always see with a suit and helmet and AL, the voice of an artificial intelligence. Welcome to spaceship Beagle 5. Sit back and enjoy following Tom and AL on an extravagant adventure among the stars. Try to find countless references to famous and little-known jewels from scifi, nerd and pop culture.

Some things about Space Life

The Beagle 5 spaceship takes its name from the HMS Beagle ship. The HMS Beagle on her second voyage hosted the then young naturalist Charles Darwin on board, whose work made the Beagle one of the most famous ships in history. Number 5 is a tribute to Eagle 5 (which also has a certain similarity with the name Beagle) spaceship of Spaceballs (A 1987 american science fiction comedy film co-written, produced and directed by Mel Brooks).

AL is a tribute to Alan Turing. Philosopher, mathematician and cryptographer. The test that bears his name is still considered today a valid tool to ascertain whether a machine is able to compete with human intelligence.

AL also remembers HAL 9000, the supercomputer aboard the spacecraft Discovery in Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey and Arthur C. Clarke's book of the same name. In 2003, the American Film Institute placed HAL 9000 in 13th place on its list of the 50 Best Movie Villains of All Time. What surprises will AL have in store for us?

The work break raises the question about the future of work and about human-machine interaction. For further information see Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow by Yuval Noah Harari and Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies by Nick Bostrom

The game of chess proposed by Tom in "Origin" is a tribute to the great chess challenges between man and computer. Chess and computers have gone hand in hand since the dawn of information technology. Between the end of the 40s and the beginning of the 50s the first articles appeared (with signatures of illustrious scientists such as Claude Shannon, Norbert Wiener and above all the aforementioned Alan Turing) that designed algorithms capable of playing. Memorable were the challenges between Kasparov and IBM's Deep Blue.

In "Spoiler" Tom says he wants to start reading "War and Peace". The reference is to the Peanuts character Snoopy who loves War and Peace, but in order not to get tired he reads no more than one word a day.

After the Apollo 1 fire, Snoopy became the official mascot of the Apollo program's aerospace security, testing and rebuilding.

The Apollo 10 lunar module was named "Snoopy" and the command module "Charlie Brown".

The Silver Snoopy award is a special NASA award in the form of a silver pin engraved with Snoopy with a space helmet. It is given to an astronaut who works in the space program who has gone above and beyond on the pursuit of quality and safety.

In "Cultural evolution" we refer to the cultural evolution in animals. In recent decades, a burgeoning literature has documented the cultural transmission of behavior through social learning in numerous vertebrate and invertebrate species. A meaning of "cultural evolution in animals" refers to these findings and I present an overview of the key findings. I will then address the other meaning of the term focused on cultural changes within a lineage. Such changes in humans, described as "cumulative cultural evolution", have been spectacular, but relatively little attention has yet been paid to the subject in non-human animals, other than claiming that the process is unique to humans. A variety of evidence, including controlled experiments and field observations, has begun to challenge this view and in some behavioral domains, particularly birdsong, cultural evolution has been studied for many years. The scifi reference is to "Planet of the Apes" and compared to the bears to the short story "Bears Discover Fire" by American science fiction author Terry Bisson.

"Time" is set in the vicinity of the black hole M87 . It's the central black hole of the giant elliptical galaxy Galaxy Virgo A, encoded as "M87" (the largest galaxy in the "near" universe, located 56 million light years from us , in the Cluster of the Virgin). It has a mass approximately 6.6 billion times that of the Sun.

That the time be one illusion is a mantra of many modern theoretical physicists. In the equations of the "loop quantum gravity model", with which Carlo Rovelli, Lee Smolin and others try to unify Einstein's general relativity and quantum mechanics, time disappears. What exists at the fundamental level are only "atoms of space". The universe and its history are nothing more than ways in which these "space atoms" are arranged. (Rovelli's Book)

Tom's answer - "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so"- is a quote from "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams.

Have fun finding references and quotes in the next few episodes! feel free to write your ideas in the comments.

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cobra-diamond · 5 years ago

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How to Develop Avatar’s Season 4 - Part 1

1 Summary

This 3-part article provides a framework for developing the central conflict of a hypothetical Season 4 of Avatar. It does not delve into the details of every characters’ arcs nor does it define the ‘B’ plots and worldbuilding. What it does explain is which of the established themes, characters and loose ends from the show can be used to create a compelling, complex and unique central conflict for continuing the story past Aang’s journey. In essence, this article creates the skeleton to which everything else gets attached.

In part 1, some of the practical reasons for not getting a 4th Season are explored. In part 2, the themes and unresolved character journeys that create the potential for Season 4 are explained, and in part 3 the detailed framework of the central conflict is proposed.

2 Introduction

When Avatar ended, it was at the height of its quality and popularity. Naturally, fans wanted more. More of the sharp animation and spectacle of bending. More immersion in a beautiful East Asia-inspired world. More of the increasingly intense and mature animated drama that was exemplified by the four-part series finale. Truly, though, Avatar was a three-act story about Aang’s journey to defeat the Fire Lord and save the world. And he did. The third season was a natural stopping point for the beloved show.

For any commercialized work of art, however, the goal should be to maximize popularity and financial success. With such a rabid fanbase comprised of teens and young adults (many of whom were beginning to make their own money), certainly there were ways of profiting off of their enthusiasm for the franchise despite the “main event” being over. There was the option for graphic novels as a means of continuing the visual art of the franchise without the expense of animation. There was the possibility for an animated mini-series (or several) to tie up loose threads. There were even the rumored “one-hour TV movies” that never came to be.

But when most fans think of continuing the show, their minds first jump to a Season 4. This makes sense. Why settle for a meager short story when you can spend months engrossed in a fully-fledged novel? Certainly the Avatar world felt sufficiently deep for further immersion and the aftermath of the Hundred Year War messy enough for more drama and meaningful conflict. So what might have been the reasons for no continuation of the show, let alone a 4th season?

3 The Practical Reasons for No Further Avatar

In the end, Avatar: The Last Airbender never continued in animated form, whether it be a miniseries, TV-movies, or a 4th season. For those fans who have been left disappointed, there are valid financial and creative reasons to consider for this.

On the business end, the cost of a season was massive. Each episode cost over a million dollars to produce, 12 years ago. A full season was a multi-ten million dollar effort, taking over a year from start to finish and required additional millions (if not more) for advertising and other costs. Since a 4th season wasn’t planned from the get-go (presumably), production planning might not have had a contingency plan for another season’s worth of production; for example, employment contracts might have been expiring, with those members of the creative team leaving for other jobs. Neither might there have been a business plan for expanding the franchise into a 4th season, even if it was theoretically possible.

Perhaps the demographic of Avatar being outside Nickelodeon’s wheelhouse escalated the costs of continuing the show since they had no clear way of making money off of the older, more committed fans during the dead time between the end of Season 3 and the start of a Season 4. Keep in mind that if the decision to do a 4th season is made after Season 3 ends, it might take two years (or more) until the first episode airs. How does Nickelodeon market and sell Avatar during that time?

The situation is exacerbated when you get to the creative aspects of continuing the show beyond its natural, planned stopping point. Perhaps Nickelodeon asked the creators for a 4th season, but Bryke and Ehasz were hard-pressed to come up with anything viable in the allotted time. Maybe the combination of market research and business model of Nickelodeon dictated what a 4th season needed to be, but the creators could not figure out how to make it work. Perhaps what the creators did come up resulted in a plot and/or subject matter that was outside Nickelodeon’s target demographic. Maybe the creators were simply tired of the franchise (at the time) and wanted to move on. Maybe they simply wanted Avatar to end with Aang’s journey and be done with it.

According to former head writer Aaron Ehasz, a 4th Season was indeed considered although only at a very cursory level. According to him, the live-action movie got in the way of pulling the trigger. As there is considerable controversy surrounding the movie and its impact on the franchise (especially who is to “blame”), as well as conflicting remarks from Bryke, this won’t be taken as a primary cause until more is known. Just food for thought.

4 The Questions Fans Need to Ask

When the show ended, there was a clear desire among fans for more Avatar, but no clear answer as to how the story of the franchise should continue. Whatever the combination of reasons, Avatar never got a 4th season and never will (barring a reboot in the future, the live action Netflix show advancing past the finale, or a miracle). But the right question to ask is not, “Should Avatar have had a season four?” But rather, “What should a Season 4 have been about?”

The job of a writer is to make their story work. Stories don’t appear out of thin air. They are not floating in the ether waiting for a writer to capture them. Good stories (like Avatar) require months (or years) of hard work, self-doubt, revision, planning and trust in one’s creative instincts. At the core of any story is an overarching problem that must be solved; a primary conflict. For Avatar, it was: “Aang must master all four elements and defeat the Fire Lord before the Comet arrives.” There were other characters and conflicts along the way (Zuko’s journey, Iroh, the Gaang), but encompassing the whole and giving everything else meaning was Aang’s central conflict. For a Season 4, that central conflict is… What exactly?

When thinking about what would have comprised a 4th season of Avatar, you have to ask the sorts of questions a writer would ask, as if you were part of the creative team trying to make the story work. These questions are: what central conflict could have sustained a 21 episode season? What kind of conflict could have “raised the stakes” again without downplaying the significance of the original conclusion? How do you continue the cast of characters in a way that is fresh and different from what we’ve seen and not just a retread of the original?

Would the franchise need to be “aged-up” for a 4th season and appeal more closely to teenagers and young adults? How does that affect the tone and existing reputation of Avatar being for kids? How does that affect the plot and subject matter? What unfinished business, or loose threads, or untapped potential remained in the Avatar world that were deep enough to explore? How do you show new things, teach new things, broaden the fans’ understanding of the Avatar world and the original characters?

Are Aang and Zuko still the primary leads? Do other characters get the spotlight? Which ones? Who is a Season 4 about? Where does it take place? And we cycle back to the original question: what is a Season 4 about?

For years, there was no answer, then everything changed when the Avatar comics by Dark Horse were published. As it turns out, the comics continue where Season 3 left off and provide a template for exploring the lost potential of Season 4.

Keep Reading - Part 2

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theparanormalperiodical · 5 years ago

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The True Story Behind An American Werewolf In London (1981), And The 9 REAL Werewolves That You Might Bump Into This Full Moon

What makes a horror film a cult classic?

Is it a suspenseful and seriously-addictive plot? Is it iconic characters with quick-witted one liners? Or is it the way the director throws out the old rule book and redefines the genre forever?

An American Werewolf in London (1981) doesn’t score so highly on any of those questions, but despite hitting the big screen amongst a herd of werewolf-inspired movies, it is officially a cult classic.

But why?

With CGI so bad it’ll rival a low-budget episode of Buffy, and with sex scenes so bad it’ll rival a high-budget episode of Buffy, this Yankee doggo wouldn’t need a silver bullet to be floored at the box office these days.

However, when the hum of the theatre-goers melted away into a hush as the opening shot of the Yorkshire Moors back in ‘81, this film was set to terrify the audience.

Jump-scares worthy of Annabelle 36: Yes, This Doll Still Ain’t Dead redefined the genre, with the shockingly realistic transformation scene taking centre stage.

Back in the 1980s, you didn’t see stuff like this.

That’s why to the previous generation An American Werewolf In London is considered one of the most terrifying movies to date. But to me, the real terror doesn’t lie in the engorging snout of the American tourist, nor his every-decaying gap-year bestie.

It’s how realistic this movie is to real werewolves.

Today’s post is all about how accurate the film’s portrayal of the werewolf is to the legends of the beast, and the roll-call of the 9 most famous real werewolves.

Let’s get spooky!

First, Let’s Recap Of An American Werewolf In London (1981)

The horror genre is infamous for many things.

The grotesque violence against women, female characters with less complexity than a box of condoms, and plots thinner than the women cast as final girls.

This film is no different, but it's the latter point that really matters here.

The story starts with two American tourists who decided to spend their Gap Year in England.

Yeah, me neither.

But instead of having an emotional connection with an elephant in India, they stumble into a cosy little pub named The Slaughtered Lamb. Chockful of secretive villagers and satanic imagery - oh, and a vague warning about the full moon - our scene is set.

Basics, they tell ‘em: “Teach english to the primitive villagers all you want, just don’t go on the moors or you will get pregnant and die”

Guess who gets lost and ends up on the moors. What’s that I hear? Mysterious howling that is getting closer to them?

One of the pair - Jack - is attacked first, and is mauled by the wolf-like being. David is attacked too, but the pub-goers shoot it before it has a chance to rip his throat out.

But moments before he passes out from the pain, he does not see a creature. He sees a naked man, instead.

(Dun dun duh)

David wakes up 3 weeks later in a London hospital with no recollection of the attacks, but a policeman fills him in, claiming he was attacked by a lunatic. David’s dead pal Jack then makes the first of his appearances in a kind of ghostly-corpsy form. He lets him know that what attacked them was a werewolf, and that David is now one.

Jack urges David to commit suicide to prevent an attack he cannot control, and to end the curse that makes Jack appear as a ghost that will continue with the existence of the bloodline. During his stint in hospital, he falls for a nurse who he shacks up with when he leaves hospital.

During his first full moon, he stalks the streets of London, slaughtering several in the process. He wakes up in a wolf enclosure at the London Zoo, unharmed by the creatures and with no memory of last night.

Eventually, he begins to piece together the reality of his, uh, werewolf-ness, and attempts to prevent another massacre by getting himself arrested, but he fails. He is drawn into an Adult Cinema by Jack, and meets the ghosts of his other victims who helpfully suggest suicide methods for him to try.

David transforms for the last time, and continues his attack into central London until he is cornered in an alley. His nurse-lover rocks up, and attempts to calm him. For a moment this seems to work, but he is then shot by police and dies.

A sequel did follow up this film, and and sees a similar story set in Paris. The setting isn’t the only difference, however; this time we see an underground werewolf society that’s looking for ways to control the, uh, werewolfness using drugs.

How Accurate Is This To The Legend Of The Werewolf?

Haunted houses, mass murderers, and the creepy details of infamous court cases - it doesn’t take much to justify typing ‘based on a true story’ onto a movie poster.

But the original inspiration behind this film doesn’t just follow one vague story about a vague ghost doing vague ghost things like taking that 10 quid out of your coat pocket even though you spent it on that candle from TK Maxx and are officially in denial that you have a problem it’s not a problem mum it just really rare to find that candle okay these are american imports.

The writer-director, Max Landis, wanted to focus his film on something real, on “something where you really [didn’t] have to suspend disbelief”.

To Landis, Werewolves are an “international” monster, with each individual culture having some man-beast supposedly roam their lands and ravage their communities. He even cited historical cases like in France or in Wales where people were burnt to death for their afflictions, cases that will get their attention later in this post.

So if this film was directly based on the legend of the werewolf, what was the legend of the werewolf?

*Inhale*

A werewolf is a human that can shapeshift into a wolf having been cursed by another, or by an affliction from another werewolf during the night of the full moon.

Then again, tales tell of drinking water from the puddle created by a wolf’s footprint or wearing a fur belt too much that can cause one to become a ‘wolf-man’.

Scientists have debunked claims stretching back as far as 27 AD with a variety of medical causes unexplained in years gone by, from Lycanthropy (a disorder from which one believes they can transform into a wolf) to Werewolf Syndrome (medical conditions which involve excessive hair growth), to Poryphoria which coincidentally is also used to debunk rumours of vampirism. But the widespread belief that once dominated the world suggests supernatural forces could have been at play, too.

In fact, only in the 18th century did official court cases stop referencing werewolves in Bavaria and Austria.

Nevertheless, this hasn’t stopped myths and mysterious stories from still cropping up today.

Historically, werewolves and witches were often closely aligned, whether the wolves were used by witches for their own purposes, or they were ridden by them. Therefore, a link was forged between witchcraft trials and the hunts for the man-wolves.

That being said, it wasn’t just witches they were closely allied with: Germanic tradition might have focused on the former associations, but the Slavic countries considered them closely allied with vampires. This belief in werewolves in Europe - the epicentre of the beastly action - emerged in the 14th century, and peaked in 16th century france.

This is where the first link between the historical cases of wolf-men and the movie emerge. If the number of werewolf cases grew during one era, this can point to 2 things: that rumours of werewolves fuelled more rumours, or that werewolves were real and thus spreading the curse.

So, when Jack appears as a corpsey-ghosty-being-thing and tells him that the werewolf bloodline needs to end with him, the film conforms to werewolf legends.

Specifically, werewolves were considered to have a variety of give-away traits whether transformed or as a human: unibrows, curled fingernails, low-set ears, and a certain swagger were dead giveaways for werewolves in their human guise.

Or, when in wolf form, it will bear characteristics such as not having a tail, bearing human eyes and speaking with a human voice. So yes, that scene in Twilight is an accurate depiction of a werewolf.

But aside from David looking like a wolf during his transformation, one of the key similarities between historic cases and the film is the post-transformation effects:

Having returned to human form, werewolves are often weak and completely debilitated. In fact, severe depressions are often mentioned, too, something that must become pretty annoying if its every 4 weeks.

Remember when David was in that coma for 3 weeks?

Remember when the ghosts lectured him on suicide methods?

Speaking of folklore mirroring the film, remember the totally-not-creepily-named pub? Ah yes, The Slaughtered Lamb:

The five-pointed star was enough satanic imagery to suggest a divine link to the werewolf that isn’t explored in the movie, but historically curses from gods, saints, and the devil are mentioned. The latter is specifically true for Russia, suggesting this werewolf might be fresh from Mother Russia.

Oh, and of course, witches supposedly did deals with the devil, suggesting a witchy-satany-link that explains the decor of the pub.

Given their warnings of a full moon and a desire to protect the young men from their original forays onto the moors, it suggests the decor was put in place as a protection against the supernatural forces haunting the area, or maybe even a deal with the forces to protect the pub or village itself.

The penultimate parallel is the OG attack itself.

The policeman claims David and Jack were attacked by a lunatic. And if you check out this post on the full moon, you’ll know how well this fits the concept of the werewolf.

The final key similarity is this:

The Ancient Greeks and Romans believed in the power of exhaustion to cure people of werewolf, uh, -ism. The captured victims would be subjected to unruly levels of physical exertion in the hope that it would drive the beast from the body.

We discover in the second film that the actual ‘cure’ is adrenaline. By engaging in activities which encourage enough adrenaline to rush through the body, the beast can be kept at bay.

This is confirmed by the concept of killing a werewolf in the first film: when the werewolves are shot, they immediately return to human form.

Quick flashback to GCSE biology, ‘couple dots connected, and here we are.

The 9 Real Werewolves That Have Existed Throughout History And Might Still Exist Today

So - we know that An American Werewolf In London is pretty-gosh-darn-accurate to the legend of the mythical beast that is the werewolf.

But it’s not like werewolves actually exist, do they?

Do they?!

#1 - Pierre Burgot (1502)

The 16th century was a pretty shite time to be alive. If you weren’t dying in childbirth, you were being beheaded for adultery, you dirty b*tch.

Pierre Burgot was facing such a predicament, but his was slightly more furry. Whilst tending his sheep like most french farmers, three men on horseback rocked up and asked him if he’d like to renounce god and follow them, instead. With the promise of protected sheep, he accepted, and was later turned into a wolf as a part of the contract.

Then, in true devil-worshipper-werewolf fashion they terrorised the region, willingly becoming wolves to kill, pillage, and eat innocent civilians.

When Burgot was eventually attacked during a quick snack, he was discovered in human form, mirroring the movie titling this post.

#2 - Giles Garnier (1573)

A hermit concealed in the woods who may or may not turn into a wolf is a pretty common tale still cropping up today, but back in the 16th century, this was more popular than ever.

With a taste for childrens, he began to pick off and partially devour young locals. The villagers’ proof of his attacks, however, did not simply come from pinning the attacks on a recluse:

They saw a wolf maul a young boy and followed it to see it transform back into a human form - the human form of Giles Garnier.

Garnier even confessed to his shapeshifting-situation.

#3 - Perrenette Gandillon (1598)

A 15 year old boy was livin’ his best Middle Ages life when he saw a wolf lunge at his sister. With its human hands it grabbed her and killed her, then switching its attention to him.

It might have left deep wounds, and he might have died days later, but the boy had just enough time left to cough up a brief description of the hairy hands he saw grab his younger sister - and the scar gracing the wolf’s body.

From here the villagers led a mob to the house of Perrenette Gandillon, a woman who bore the same scar. This was actually a very common way to deduce a werewolf back to its human form. The thing is, they then worked out that it wasn’t just her who was getting wolfy.

Her whole family had actually been spotted in beast-mode, something they later each confessed to.

(They were even believed to pace on all fours in their prison cells.)

#4 - Jacques Roulet (1598)

This is the ultimate werewolf story, bringing together an ostracised member of a community and family relations that would make Christmas dinner more awkward than my UKIP aunt naming dropping Jacob Rees-Mogg.

When a young boy was found mutilated and two wolves seen, they were hunted down until a man dressed in rags and in a daze emerged from the darkness.

Jacques Roulet was his name; slaughtering innocent children was his game.

It is believed that he and his amigos had been given their powers by the devil himself, and the eventual confession of these amigos supported this claim.

#5 - Peter Stubbe (1582)

Whispers of werewolves have littered court records and conjured up local legends for centuries, but there are some people that stand out from the crowd - this is one of those werewolves.

Peter Stubbe was a well-off farmer who made his name in the community. Unfortunately, how we remember him is different to his community. Supposedly, Stubbe made a pact with the devil, requesting that “at his pleasure he might work his malice on men, women, and children, in the shape of some beast”.

His pact resulted in a murder spree spanning 25 years. By the time he was supposedly discovered as the culprit of the murders haunting Bedburg, he was described as devoid of humanity during his time as a wolf, and he had no memory of his actions once returned to his human form.

#6 - The Beast of Gevaudan (1764)

Our story starts in 1764, when the residents of Gévaudan started noticing people were dying. Sure, it’s nothing new for 250 years ago, but when their throats were consistently being ripped out, concerns were raised.

With 210 attacks being blamed on these legendary man-eating animals or wolf-dog hybrid, this became a myth all too real for the inhabitants of the area. Lone men, women and children near livestock were the victims of these attacks, suggesting a totally normal beast attack, right?

But when they discovered that only the necks were being targeted, this pointed to much more mythical roots, explaining why we consider this one of the most prominent potential sightings of a werewolf to date.

#7 - The Livonian Werewolf (17th century)

You’d think werewolves would be mysterious marvels of nature, rarely divulging the realities of their lives, right? This guy bucked the trend.

Thiess of Kaltenbrun was a typical Swedish bloke who spent his time practicing folk magic, wearing fur pelts, and becoming a wolf. Widely known to be a werewolf - despite being in his 80s - the authorities brought him in for questioning on an unrelated matter. From there he spilled on his specialist lifestyle.

He claimed he and others of his kind would only change on certain days like Pentecost or Midsummer Night by throwing on a wolf pelt, a common method of becoming the mystical being.

He also claimed that they would kill and ‘gather’ meat in wolfy form, but cook it in human terms.

Yet the most peculiar point he made was that werewolves were not demonic creatures, but were agents of god. Werewolves would spend their free time travelling to hell to battle the devil and the witches, and bring back the livestock they had stolen, contradicting all other tales we have seen so far.

#8 - The Southend Werewolf (1952)

William Ramsay was only 9 years old when it first happened. One day, he suddenly felt an icy shiver take over his body, a smell like rotting meat float around him, and an aggression overcome his mind. He was shivering, he was growling, he was in-tune to his senses.

He had - or so he claimed - become a werewolf.

He then finished up his transformation by ripping a fence post out of his garden. Super-human strength was often reported whenever this would overcome him, confirming that all these signs bear a similarity to cases of demonic possession.

Other events of turning into a werewolf bear similar resemblance, including him attempting to attack and kidnap a prostitute and biting doctors attempting to restrain him. After every event, Ramsay would fail to remember the attacks.

He even checked himself into a mental hospital in an attempt to get to the bottom of his affliction in the 1980s. They found no explanation for these events.

And it was following these similar cases of him ‘turning’ - including one that involved the police and splashed his story across the papers - that the Warrens decided to pay him a visit whilst in London. They deduced that this was a Demon Animal Spirit. Having been suspicious of his claims prior to their investigation, they then claimed an exorcism was required. So, Ramsay was flown out to the USA, and an exorcism performed by Bishop McKenna occurred.

At first, the exorcism did fuck all. But it was only when the bishop touched his forward and asked the demon to reveal itself that Ramsay once again began to turn. That was the final time that Ramsay ever became a werewolf.

#9 - A Mysterious Beast Is Killed In Montana (2018)

Strange and unknown creatures are always being killed, captured, and caught on camera. But with the ‘hoax’ label stamped firmly on most of these cases, they often go disregarded. This is not one of the cases.

In May 2018, deep in rural Montana, a creature was shot dead by a rancher. Cloaked in long, grey fur, bearing huge claws and an oversized head, this was no ratified beast.

The authorities had no clue what it was.

The teeth and paws were too short to belong to a wolf, and the floppy ears and fur did not point to a doggo, either.

Do You Think Werewolves Exist?

If you liked hearing ‘bout werewolves, I’m sure you’ll love to hear a new ghost story everyday, right?

Tap follow to see a new one in your feed on-the-daily!

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actuallylorelaigilmore · 5 years ago

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i would love to hear a s3 rant tbh

i started writing this a few months after s3 came out, because i needed that long to sort of soak up all the feelings and changes that came along with it. now i’m used to it enough that i don’t find myself thinking too hard about s3 when i get to it in rewatches–it’s a shift, but one i’m adjusted to. and now it’s premiere day for s4! so i’m finally done writing the rest of it.

it is a shift, though, and i think that’s why so many of us in the fandom had mixed feelings about it–we still loved it, but we didn’t come away from s3 with the same lingering mood that we did after s2. for me, s3 was the first season that ended on a truly happy note. there was no heartbroken elena at her quinces, there was no distraught family hoping lydia would wake up.

s3 left pretty much all the characters in a good, hopeful place, so why did we find ourselves more inclined to pick it apart? why did it feel different, when all the individual character arcs and plot points were in the same world we love, and clearly handled with the same amount of effort and care as we expect?

the following giant analysis is my attempt to articulate an answer to that, as a fan who has watched the whole show….so many times. so many times, guys. just so much. i don’t even have a number anymore.

to give you an idea of what you’re in for, here’s the categories you’ll find behind the cut:

each season’s focus was different

brothers and other strangers

dr. b’s inclusion minimizing other relationships

schneider being more isolated from the family

schneider’s sobriety

schneider & avery

avery + other characters

penelope & mateo

misc other gripes

feel free to reply to this and/or send me asks, i spent way too long on it. :)

each season’s focus was different:

obviously, odaat is an ensemble show. every character gets moments of their own, and most have larger arcs. but because the show needs a focus, each season arguably belongs more to some of the characters than others.

the stars of s1 are penelope and elena.

penelope is our anchor to the family and the story, the one that everything else orbits around. we’re watching her live through the end of her marriage and become more settled in her new role as the primary parent to her kids. elena is figuring out who she is, then dealing with the fallout from sharing her truth with the people who matter to her. her quinces is the topic of debate in 1.01 and closes out the season in 1.13.

lydia steals scenes a lot, but she doesn’t really have a larger arc in s1. at the end of the season, she’s the same person she was at the beginning, just changed by her involvement in elena and penelope’s stories. same goes for alex–he has stories, but they’re a lot smaller and more contained. and schneider and leslie are only involved in the season because of their friendships with lydia and penelope, then in schneider’s case, his dynamic with alex later on.

the stars of s2 are penelope and lydia.

penelope goes back to school, has her first serious relationship post-divorce, and finally deals more seriously with her mental health struggles. lydia decides to become a u.s. citizen, struggles with her feelings toward leslie, and ends the season triumphant after a major health scare.

elena plays a major role in s2, but a lot of her story is a continuation from s1, with the return of victor and her first romantic relationship, and developments like her new job as a handyma’am are awesome but not the central focus of the season. alex gets to be the star of a few episodes, more than in s1, but they’re not really tied in to an overarching arc. his first job, his anti-immigrant bullying, and his time at the movies with penelope are all standalone plots.

schneider has a larger, more serious role in s2, going from ‘you guys are like family’ during quinces in s1 to ‘now, you’re my family’ to lydia in not yet. but he’s still on the outside, looking in. and leslie’s role remains one that supports penelope at work and lydia in friendship, rather than giving him his own plot.

the stars of s3 are alex and schneider.

in s3, penelope’s story is more settled, because so is she. her job is secure, her schoolwork is coming to a close, and her kids are growing up. she has a romance, but mateo is less important to her than max was, and the plot reflects that, with mateo barely around until penelope’s neglect of him becomes part of the joke. pen’s reacting to what’s going on around her more, whether that’s alex’s drug use or elena’s anxiety and secret hotel room or schneider’s sobriety.

that’s not a bad thing! justina kills it in every episode, penelope’s still funny and a tearjerker and strong as hell while flawed…but s3 is the first season that doesn’t completely revolve around her, storywise.

elena’s story is also more settled, on some levels. victor’s return gives her a much-deserved coda, evidence that her life couldn’t be neatly tied up in a bow after a year and that emotional scars do real damage. but even that plot, like her first time with syd and her driving lessons, are part of larger episodes involving other stories rather than the main focus of all of them. victor’s wedding, the finale episode, tries to move forward five of our six main characters, compared to elena’s quinces, which was almost exclusively her show.

lydia’s s3 plot includes her fabulous bouquet list, ideas about aging and motherhood and family. but she’s back to being a scene-stealer–even her bouquet list exists as a subplot in other people’s episodes.

having focused the most on the alvarez women in s1 and s2, the show finally gives alex more room to shine in s3, a development that surprised me but pleasantly so because it turns out that the more they give him to do, the better marcel is at it. s3 shows us an alex growing up, making dumb choices and learning from them, but also being there for his family in bigger and more mature ways, schneider included.

and schneider…gosh. schneider’s arc in s3 is so important that it’s the one they foreshadowed ominously before the season was even on netflix:

he did step into the spotlight as promised, and by the end of the season, he was a full-fledged canon member of the family. not that we needed them to tell us that, even if schneider did. :)

to start with, though, that’s part of why s3 feels different: because it is. the focus widens to different characters, and the ones we’re used to following more closely have more contained arcs.

brothers and other strangers

s3 also decided to introduce new family members. a LOT of new family members. and while they all added to the story, some fit in better than others. the funeral did this well, finally giving lydia’s estranged sister a face to go with the name, and giving us more of a glimpse at the big family penelope grew up around before the military and parenting narrowed her everyday focus.

but the show’s decision to anchor an episode on brothers gave us what felt like a lot of consistency issues. they explained pen’s sudden s3 brother, tito, by making his absence during lydia’s coma a topic of discussion. they couldn’t actually include a never before mentioned sibling for penelope without creating bigger confusion, though. it just wasn’t possible.

tito is apparently the older brother that lydia idolizes, but until 3.04 she’s never mentioned him in conversation once? when she’s in a coma reflecting on her family and how they’ll go on without her, her beloved son isn’t worth a mention? i can forgive the show for deciding to give pen a brother three years in, but i can’t pretend it wasn’t jarring when odaat treated her like an only child before that.

and this is a much smaller issue, but also in s3 suddenly syd has a younger brother? who is homeschooled too? when they were telling elena their only classmate was their chinchilla the year before? like i said, a relatively small thing but it still bugs me because it’s so random.

schneider now has sibling(s) too, apparently, but his comment about not being his father’s favorite child was the first time that came up, in three years of him talking about his parents and household staff and childhood stressors. i have so many questions. hopefully future seasons will clarify some things.

anyway, hermanos was a deeply confusing episode for me because tito came out of nowhere and schneider’s conversation with leslie, while lovely, was the first time we heard schneider (or anyone actually) label his relationship with penelope a sibling-ish one. it was clear during lydia’s coma that he considered lydia a friend who was also somewhat a maternal figure in his life, but it wasn’t until s3 that the show extended that dynamic, from ‘lydia is like his mom’ to ‘therefore he and pen are both her kids.’

i’ll get into this later, but i honestly think that was meant more to tie into the episode’s theme than because it was supposed to shift his friendship with penelope into new territory. we’re watching penelope deal with tito, and elena deal with alex, and schneider makes the one comment during an important scene with leslie. it’s still jarring though.

the very fact that schneider wasn’t with the family during their vacation felt like an inconsistency to a lot of us, whose two-seasons-worth of headcanons about schneider make ‘he secretly books the room next to theirs and crashes their vacation’ more believable than him staying home alone.

it was done in service to the season’s goals of adding tito to the mix and folding leslie in more, and both goals were accomplished…it just felt a little strange.

dr b’s greater inclusion minimizing other relationships

speaking of leslie, s3 for him was what s2 gave schneider–more ties to more characters, and the first real subplots we’ve seen him have about serious subjects. for good or bad, a lot of what stood out to me in s3 as different was related to the show making more room for leslie.

schneider not being with the alvarezes on their vacation, even though he’s at every family event including funerals now? penelope made it happen by ‘entrusting’ schneider with the care of her house(plant), but really it played out that way so we could see schneider and leslie bond.

elena’s driving lessons being handled by leslie? it’s fair enough that penelope isn’t the one doing it, since she’s busy and it stresses her out, but if you want me to believe that schneider wouldn’t have jumped at the opportunity, even with avery in his life now, you’re crazy. there’s no believable canon reason in s1 or s2 why leslie would be the one doing that, but it played out that way so we could see elena and leslie bond.

even alex gets to know leslie better because he’s more involved with elena, meaning that after s3 leslie finally has connections to the whole family (which schneider accomplished in s2 once he was mentoring elena in building repairs).

by the season finale, leslie is attending victor’s wedding, mistakenly butting in on elena’s time with her dad, and finally traveling to cuba with lydia while he shares his practice with penelope.

however you feel about s3 in general, the show had to change its usual dynamic in order to include leslie more in situations like driving lessons and weddings. it just wouldn’t have worked otherwise. for example, the funeral at the beginning of s3 doesn’t involve him at all, because why would it? unlike schneider, he hasn’t spent a ton of time bonding with the extended alvarez family prior to s3. he’s involved in big moments because he’s close to lydia or penelope.

s3 is the first time we really see him get involved in the story just on his own merits. and that required less schneider in family moments, which paired nicely with the season’s other visible difference.

schneider being more isolated from the family

the schneider we know and love from s2 would have offered to take over elena’s driving lessons as soon as he realized they were stressing pen out. he would have found an excuse to join them on vacation, and he would have been present when penelope realized elena was sneaking off to a hotel room with syd.

schneider prior to s3 was always around that way, witnessing threesome porn on alex’s laptop and picking up strangers at the airport for the quinces, making it easier for penelope to go to him when she needed advice or a hug. in s1, she may have started out getting his help as a last resort, but by late s2, she was often turning to him instead of her own family, or her support group. pen was reluctantly aware of his many hookups because she was at his apartment so much.

once avery’s in the picture, though, we see less of schneider in the family orbit, and it’s really not explained. penelope pulls him (literally) into alex’s drug storyline, but after that he’s mainly in other people’s storylines, like lydia wanting to teach penelope to cook, or alex spending too much on shoes.

even in anxiety, schneider’s status as penelope’s most trusted person is one scene in an episode that shows how she interacts with everyone in her life, rather than the climax of it–the way his time with her is in hello penelope.

beyond individual episodes, it’s the relationships that matter, and we just see a lot less of that with schneider and the family in s3. in s1 we saw him bonding with alex all the time, and in s2 schneider became more important to elena. but in s3…where is he?

alex goes to his apartment because penelope ordered him to, to get a lecture about reckless spending, and that’s the only one-on-one time we see them have before the laundry room in drinking and driving. are they still close? i’m assuming they are, because alex clearly still cares about him and vice versa, but whether it’s because alex is growing up or because schneider’s busier with his first real girlfriend, they’ve stopped hanging out.

i feel the same way about schneider and elena. her support of him when he relapses (how amazing is it that elena is the first alvarez to use the word ‘love’ with schneider, when he’s been closer to lydia and penelope longer? i adore one gay cuban teenager) makes it clear that he’s still important to her, but even her building maintenance seems to be done alone now. the only solo conversations they even have are at the funeral, in the very beginning of the season.

and while schneider and penelope remain friends in s3, the nature of their friendship has changed in a lot of ways. she’s at his apartment less, he’s at hers mostly when the whole family is around, and until his father’s visit they’re less close physically along with everything else.

schneider’s absence in big moments like elena learning to drive or smaller ones like a rare family vacation can be explained as storytelling choices, but they also make it easier to understand how he started drinking again, and how it was possible for him to keep it hidden (along with his avery breakup) before victor noticed.

when penelope went off her meds, schneider was the first person to confront her about her unusual behavior, but penelope doesn’t see the change in him until she’s looking for it. some of that is the show arguing that alcoholics are really good at covering their secrets up, but it also only works because though schneider is making appearances at meals and still involved with family, he’s around a lot less than he used to be.

schneider’s sobriety

deciding to dive into schneider’s sobriety was the defining choice of s3, in my opinion, that made it feel so different. if i had to pick just one, that would be it, because so much else spiderwebs out from it.

finally seeing more of the world schneider comes from, in the arrival of his father? a major relapse trigger for him.

penelope telling him that choosing his father over his tenants means he’s not part of their family? seemingly the last thing she said to him before he drank.

his inclusion in the alvarez family museum? a way to show how his sobriety is the most impressive work he’s done in his whole life.

penelope (and the rest of the family, but especially penelope, once they’re alone) doing whatever they can to support him and convince him to keep fighting? the clearest sign we’ve had in three season of how important schneider really is to them.

it’s an amazing story arc for him, and as much as it hurts to watch, i love it.

but boy does it make season three a change from the first two.

after first setting up how proud of him dr b. and lydia are (the closest thing he has to loving parents) for his years of sobriety, we then see him tempted to drink thanks to his father’s actions and just general presence.

but because of how the show handles the reveal, we actually don’t know for sure that he’s drinking again until penelope and lydia confirm it. we can be rightly suspicious–i saw that the dangling tag was no longer on the bottle when he placed it on his coffee table, and assumed then that he’d already opened it–but we can’t know.

which means that for the first time, just like penelope, we don’t know if we can trust schneider. schneider! who has wanted nothing more than to earn and keep the family’s trust this whole time.

it’s so unsettling. as is his visible unraveling once he realizes he’s been caught.

and the thing is, that we’ve seen this before, just like penelope has lived it before–the worst of her fights and fear with victor happened offscreen, but when he comes back we see him lie to her, try to convince her he can handle his own problems and she should leave it alone.

but that…that was season one. that was victor, who moved in and out of the picture often in really hurtful ways, and who we weren’t encouraged to get attached to.

schneider is lovable, and loving, and present. and yet in season three, he also becomes a version of himself who is reactive, and dishonest, and will do whatever it takes to avoid being confronted about his relapse. including trying to hurt and push away the people he loves most.

i think part of why his relapse is so effective as an arc is because it’s as hard for the viewers to expect such a sharp turn from the sweet, laid-back guy we met in s1 as it is for penelope and her family. but that’s also why s3 leaves us shaken.

schneider & avery

oh gosh, schneider and avery. i’ve talked about them a lot before, so i’ll just say here that they brought her in with great potential, then let her stay so far on the sidelines of the show after the valentine’s day episode that it became impossible to know who she was anymore, what role she played in his life, and what their future could possibly look like now that they were reunited at the wedding.

is she the gorgeous nerdy artist who has just enough in common with him to be a good fit long-term? is she rich and more suited to the world he comes from? is she uninterested in his life outside of what they do for fun together, so that she’ll never get to know his chosen family at all?

it seemed to change each time we saw her, and by the end of her involvement in schneider’s s3 storyline, we didn’t even know what had broken them up before we were supposed to be rooting for them to get back together.

my theory continues to be that the people making the show were blinded by the impossible cuteness of real life marrieds todd and india, and forgot to make sure their plot threads on the show made sense.

because avery was never going to get a ton of screen time, she was a minor character–but revolving any part of his story around her kind of gave the show a duty to at least give us a clue of what the heck was going on.

avery + other characters

my other major complaint about avery (who i genuinely adored, at least for her first couple of episodes! my liveblog of her existence in s3 is just a lot of flailing about her being so freaking cute) is that the show keeps her in a totally unprecedented bubble.

penelope’s love interests? always interact with her family. whether it’s ben getting a text from lydia, because he wasn’t around long enough for more, mateo joining an unexpected party, or max spending whatever time he could at her house…we always got to know how her guys related to her family, and that helped us understand them and the relationships better.

syd of course spends a ton of time around elena’s family, and we’re going to see alex’s girlfriend meet the family this season. you could argue that those comparisons are different because schneider’s not one of them, his storylines are less central than say, penelope’s are–and that’s true. but even dr. b’s girlfriend got a long bathroom scene with lydia and we see/know much less about leslie than we do schneider.

mostly though, this bugs me because avery clearly spends time in their home! she’s there for valentine’s day, and penelope also tells schneider to invite her during ‘the man.’ and she works at the kids’ school, so she’s in their orbit on another level. penelope is able to get in touch with her and find out they broke up.

and yet, the first real love interest for schneider that could be a healthy and serious relationship…and onscreen, lydia never meets her. doesn’t try to figure out if she’s good enough for the adopted son lydia has been encouraging to find love for three years. they never interact.

elena, who developed a serious interest in alex’s love life and a taste for gossip in season one, appears to have no interest in the woman schneider’s seeing. alex, i could understand not caring, because he’s generally happier caring about what directly affects him and what he can do to help others…if schneider’s happy, i get why he might stay out of it.

but it just sort of grates on me that none of the women in schneider’s family have a conversation with avery onscreen, beyond the moment when penelope is trying to kick her and schneider out and she pushes back. if avery is in a scene, she’s talking to and focused on schneider, or nikki, or schneider’s father. none of the family. is that because she doesn’t feel like she has to make an effort to know them? or because the show just wasn’t thinking about that? even though we see it with every other love interest brought into the house?

i mean, when you pay attention to that, then of course we don’t have a clear sense of who she is! how can we when there’s no reason to believe that anyone who cares about schneider does either?

penelope & mateo

penelope’s relationship with mateo puzzles me almost as much as schneider and avery–and in some ways, even more. we see their friendship first, we watch them deny interest in more than that with each other. then penelope pushes the issue and they do decide to date, but just like with avery, the show doesn’t have a lot of screentime to offer him.

so what we know about her new boyfriend is that they have some things in common that she really values but maybe too much in common to avoid fighting about it–and then we barely see him again, learning mainly through his absence that she’s just not that into him, until eventually they break up because it turns out he was more into his ex than her anyway.

there’s a karmic sort of humor in that for penelope, but for me it left mateo feeling like a waste of a love interest. we really didn’t get to enjoy their relationship much, especially if they wanted us to miss it when it was gone…so was it worth the time they spent setting it up in the first place?

for me the answer to that was no. especially since as her ‘longtime’ school volunteer buddy, we’d never seen him before. and i feel like it’s not likely we’ll see him again.

penelope & schneider

this is a frustrating one for me because while i have complaints about these two and their relationship in s3 it was also AMAZING and i LOVED it. both are true.

the confusing part is that their dynamic is inconsistent in s3. think some of that is because the show is trying to do so much at once. fully bring schneider into the family, focus their romantic lives on other people, deepen their bond, deny the possibility of a romance between them, keep them each other’s person.

in s1 they’re landlord and tenant but also becoming real friends. in s2 they’re best friends and he’s a honorary part of the family now (though still an outsider).

but in s3 he’s established clearly as her best friend and most trusted person, a guy who’s become deeply important to her and her whole family–so much so that after his relapse, they come together to support him much like they all did lydia in s2.

but penelope treats him dramatically differently from moment to moment and episode to episode in s3. like an annoying brother when he’s getting cooking lessons from her mom, like a life partner when alex’s behavior has her angry and scared, like a bff when she’s considering dating mateo, and even a little like a flirting companion at the wedding.

it’s not completely unprecedented for their dynamic to have multiple layers. his relationship with lydia is complicated too. in past seasons, he flirted with both penelope and her mom–while they also laughed at victor calling them a couple and he told comatose lydia how important her mothering was to him.

but they lean harder into it during lydia’s cooking lessons, while still hitting the beats hard of ‘are you sure you’re not dating?’ during penelope’s support group and schneider’s dad’s visit. the contrasting takes on their friendship is just a lot of whiplash in a single season.

another thing about s3 that’s different is the kinds of physical contact between penelope and schneider. you might not notice unless you’re looking for it, but penelope actually touches schneider more than he does her. lightly, casually, briefly. she makes contact in a friendly, familiar way all the time. schneider is more likely to touch her when it’s important, in big moments, as though he knows that she trusts him and welcomes him in her space but he doesn’t want to abuse the privilege.

i studied it for making gifsets, and she touches him more every season. and while he touches her a lot more in s2 than in s1, s3 is actually about the same amount. penelope grew visibly closer to him this season, but he held himself back from getting any more familiar. he was also the only one of the two of them who compared her to blood family. for now,it’s really up to interpretation if there’s a deeper reasoning behind that.

for both of them, though, more than half of the physical contact they make in s3 happens in just two episodes, both towards the end of the season. not only does schneider’s father’s visit and his relapse bring them closer together, literally and physically, but the season up until that point has them further apart.

they spend time together stalking alex, or with schneider talking her down from her panic, but the casual dinners are less, and she’s going to him less for advice–which means there are less small touches, less moments where schneider sits her down on his couch or she nudges him affectionately.

that makes it all the more intense when they do connect, with penelope holding his hand and them hugging twice all within the same few minutes. and then after his relapse, their conversation alone in the apartment is so tense and so much more separate than they usually are.

the last time she touched him was in the man, the most open and complimentary she’s ever been, and look what happened. this isn’t the man she knows and loves, she needs to reach her best friend who’s still in there somewhere under all the pain and self-loathing, but she tries to do so with honesty first, with bluntness, with tough love, with listening kindly but not without pushing back, and finally with his place in her family–as a role model for the kids.

only once he’s agreeing with her about the course of action and just doubting his ability to survive it does she reach out. once he’s himself again. and then she’s more there for him physically than she ever has been before. this is a new level of intimacy between them, schneider letting her in rather than excusing himself during tough times, her giving rather than just taking support, her being his silent rock the way he always is hers.

it’s just different than the previous seasons, between them. the problem is that while you’re watching it, it’s hard to pin down what message about their relationship the show is trying to send, since they touch less but more deliberately, and they’re family but not in a way that has well-defined boundaries.

misc other gripes

elena’s world shrinking

as of s3, what exactly is elena’s life outside of syd and anxiety? don’t get me wrong, i love her relationship with syd, and the anxiety plot was good–driving lessons too, which were tied to the anxiety somewhat.

but if we’re pulling back to look at the bigger picture, elena in season one was a lonely club leader, figuring out her identity, and navigating disagreements with her family.

elena in season two was experiencing her first relationship, finding her first group of geeky friends to hang out with irl, confronting the fallout of victor’s behavior in s1, and continuing her academic hard work while also adding lots of political engagement.

in comparison, elena in season three exchanges ‘i love yous’ and has sex for the first time, as well as makes up with syd after their first fight. she learns she has anxiety and gets her driver’s license and continues to heal her relationship with victor, but…she has no friends anymore? no mention of josh or carmen or any of the echo park gamers? and she’s studying for testing, it seemed like, but she’s not in clubs anymore or volunteering or protesting? her whole world outside her family isn’t really syd, is it?? because i know first love is amazing, but that’s not healthy.

i said up there that less of the story belongs to elena after s1, and this is a large part of why i feel that way. the show treats her like some of her bigger arcs are settling down, rather than expanding, giving her subplots instead and making room for the other characters. it’s weird to watch though when just a quick comment here and there would have implied that she still spends time with friends or fellow social justice warriors.

lydia’s humor goes dark

when it comes to lydia, season one includes some jokes about her ending up in a home–or to be more specific, the fact that she never will. her comedy in season two revolves a lot around her identity, with her decision to become a citizen.

and then, we go into season three after her coma. though she appears to be in good health, the family is still worried, and elena especially tries to protect her from herself.

whether it’s specifically related to her near-death experience or not, season three involves way more death jokes. things like lydia looking up, and inviting god to reunite her with her husband ‘berto, i am ready,’ she says, then sort of shrugs when death doesn’t arrive.

it’s not unfunny…but it’s a different kind of humor. i can’t say i enjoyed the edge to it, probably because i was elena’s age when my grandmother died, and she was also a deeply religious woman who was awaiting her invitation to heaven.

alex also has no friends anymore? does he still play baseball?

the way that s3 gives alex so much more to do, storywise, is awesome. but just like elena, his world seems to have gotten smaller in terms of socializing. we hear about his girlfriend but don’t meet her, and we never see him interact with friends, either–besides things like instagram.

this one’s really a minor complaint because he has whole important storylines in s3 and at least the show does imply he still has friends…but it’s a little odd for the most popular alvarez teen to spend more time chatting with dr. berkowitz than any friends his own age. especially when he used to be so involved in baseball that we at least saw his teammates.

it’s not clear to me if season three just didn’t overlap with sports season for him this time around, or if he gave baseball up–but if it were the latter, you’d think they would mention that.

scott came back but not lori

i honestly don’t know which of the show’s casting choices are influenced by availability and which are choices they make for plots they want–other than carmen leaving, because i know ariela went to another show.

but while lori hasn’t been around since season one, scott went missing after the second episode of season two…and then appeared in the second episode of season three before never showing up in the rest of the season.

there’s no continuity problem with this or anything–i just don’t like scott and wish that if they were only going to keep one of pen’s coworkers, it would’ve been lori. i know that wouldn’t have let him do what they were able to with scott. but still.

max came back why?

i like max, for the record. he’s been my favorite of all penelope’s love interests so far, and i felt bad for them both when they broke up. but in terms of the finale, it felt really jarring the way they included his little appearance.

in that one scene, the show managed to remind us that they truly loved each other, genuinely supported and cared for each other, had common background and went back a long time as friends–and that out of all the men penelope had been with, he was the one she was still hurting over.

and then he left, as easily as he appeared.

besides reminding us that her major relationship in s2 was with max, what did that scene accomplish? it didn’t feel like closure, because it didn’t add anything to their original breakup. but it also didn’t change anything about how they ended–he remained someone she wasn’t going to be with, even though they loved each other a lot.

the only explanation i can think of is that the show wanted to work with the actor again. because if their goal was to confirm that yes, she and max really were great together even though she wasn’t going to be with him…we didn’t need more confirmation of that. we got the message in s2. ed quinn is great though.

#i'm not going to reread this one last time because my brain is just very tired of it...it's so long lol #so yknow..forgive any typos or tell me about them so i can fix them #also writing half of this almost a year ago means it might not be entirely coherent? idk #one day at a time #odaat #schneider #penelope alvarez #elena alvarez #alex alvarez #lydia riera #leslie berkowitz #avery #max ferraro #lori and scott and mateo are also in this a little but i don't think i have tags for them #replies #anons are love #meta #mine #odaat meta

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manjehaal · 5 years ago

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Happy Valentine's Day! @killervibedaily

I realize that in Flash canon Valentine's Day is supposed to only be like a day or two after Marathon, but just pretend there was a 3-week skip. Screw canon. That's why we have fanfiction anyway. This story wasn't at all what I planned but it exists and it's here, so drown with me in this disaster fluff.

Caitlin Snow shuffled down the dilapidated sidewalk, letting her hair bleed white to shield her face from the people. Even while forcing herself to pretend they weren’t, she was certain they were looking, like the monsters would break free from the sewers and try to drag her down with them, to the even darker depths of the city. This narrow alley was bleak enough, she decided, hugging her bag closer to her chest, keeping her eyes peeled for any intrusion as she fast-walked to the colorless diner on the corner of the block.

Being a host now, she could feel the direct shift of perception as Frost took her form, her trepidation turning into acceptance, even while sirens and gunfire were heard like a lullaby somewhere back further. It wasn’t safe, sure, but maybe Frost understood the heart of Gotham in a way she never could. A sense of belonging in the hazard, in the gray umbrella sky, in the war-torn foundations.

Everything shifted back, as Frost let her go, her honey locks spiraling down her shoulders as her eyes turned warm, setting on the booth in the back, where two cups of coffee were steaming. Expectant eyes met hers and she smiled, feeling even more out of place in the dim-lit diner, too dismantled for her to be wearing heels.

“You could have picked a nicer part of town,” she commented, a laugh rolling off her tongue as he lifted from where he was positioned, a warm smile flashing her eyesight as he wrapped his arms around her,

“This is the nicer part of town,” he muffled, laughing in her shoulder, as his hand fell to her elbow, “unless you’re one of the elites.” Shifting back to the booth, Caitlin flopped down, relaxing for the first time since she drove into the city. She spent most of those last few moments parking, cursing over the lack of working extrapilators.

“Cisco, what are you doing in Gotham?” she deadpanned, holding her bag on her lap and she pulled on her mug.

He sighed, eyes flickering up as sirens pounded through the walls of the diner, red and blue swirling across Cisco’s face as he watched them, grimacing as a yell was heard from a few buildings down. “It’s not that bad,” he whispered, just as another car came flying around the curve.

She shook her head, trying to relax again where she sat, with her fingers wrapped tightly around the mug. “You have the whole world to add to your database and you decide to start with Gotham?”

“Well, if I’m being honest, I didn’t actually believe it would be this bad.”

She laughed into her drink, peering out the window as the cop finally pulled away and began speeding in the opposite direction.

“And I wanted to get it over with.”

It would be a little hard for him to finish his research, however, if he wasn’t alive to continue, she considered, hating the thoughts of him walking around in Gotham, unarmed and with dysfunctional meta powers.

Interrupting her anxieties, he reached to touch her hand, a steady gaze passing over her. “I’m really glad you’re here.”

“I am too. It hasn’t been the same at the lab without you.”

That was an understatement. It had been a rude awakening when she found there wasn’t much reason to be at the lab without Cisco in it, other than the responsibilities she was bound and dedicated to. She would find herself leaning over to tease him, whether she was Frost or Caitlin at that moment, only to find her gaze meeting the cold air. No more warmed up seats for her to sit in once Cisco finished his work. No more cups of coffee left on her desk or pieces of candy being offered to her at seven in the morning. No more goodnight hugs and analytical discussions about the vast probabilities of the universe. No more nothing. No more Cisco.

Looking into his warm eyes, relief settled in her chest at his nearness, for the first time in three agonizing weeks at Star Labs. “It’s been different, that’s for sure,” she said, wishing to adequately convey just how much she meant it. That Cisco was necessary and an irreplaceable component, if for some outlandish reason, he could forget that. That her suggestion had been so easy to act on because he was just that desperate to find his place. She didn’t know how deeply he took her word as gospel.

“Tradition is tradition,” he finally said, glancing up at the approaching waitress, holding a massive plate of at least 10 pancakes stacked on top of each other. Caitin’s eyes lit up, temporarily forgetting her location and putting her attention on Cisco.

“You remembered,” she said, accepting the additional plate and orange juice being handed to her, still with her eyes watching Cisco who was beaming.

He gave her a questionable look as if to ask why she would ever doubt him. “Of course I did. We’re both single, which means this applies. But hey, I am sorry you had to drive through Gotham, but I did say I’d drive to Central City for you.”

She rolled her eyes. “I insisted before you sent me the address.”

He was digging into his stack of pancakes, smiling way too much for a man who just recently became newly single. The intention of their tradition was never supposed to be this lighthearted and positive.

It had been birthed three years back on Valentine’s day, back when Cisco was fighting hard for the heart of Cynthia and Caitlin had been insisting that her and Julian were just friends. They were both single though, and without his “love donut,” as he had put it, Cisco had shown up at her house thoroughly down in the dumps. So they had agreed to keep each other company, watching movies and playing board games, until at around two in the morning when Cisco had turned to Caitlin and said, “I want pancakes.”

She had smiled from the couch, not at all able to provide the energy to actually make pancakes, but Cisco had been content to make them himself, spending the next half hour singing loudly along to Disney songs and encouraging Caitlin to sing alone, who was just humming with her eyes closed on the couch. Clearly, Cisco was tired, but he was very much out of the dumps.

By three in the morning, they were both sitting on the living room floor eating pancakes, talking about their deepest insecurities and promising to be best friends forever. “Promise me,” he said, looking up at her as she moved the plates to the coffee table. “That if we are ever both single and lonely on Valentine’s Day, we’ll do this again.”

“Make a mess?”

“No,” he said, smoothing his messy hair. “Pancakes. They were so good.”

“They were,” she agreed, making herself comfortable on the couch again. “I promise, but only if you make them.”

He nodded eagerly, plummeting onto the recliner beside Caitlin.

The next year, Cisco was with Cynthia, so Caitlin had sat in her living room eating cereal alone.

The year after that, Cisco showed up at her house with far too many pancakes than they could possibly eat, not unless they invited Barry, and they didn’t. This was their tradition and Barry was thoroughly occupied anyway.

And this year, after Cisco broke up with Kamilla, Cisco immediately texted her saying, “We have to meet up for Valentine’s day.” How could she possibly say “no”?

Caitlin smiled at the memory, pouring syrup onto her pancakes as Cisco spread butter on his own. He didn’t look heartbroken to her, and she knew well enough how to tell when he was faking. Just as she had known pretty early into Cisco’s relationship with Kamilla that he wasn’t right for her, and he knew it too. Maybe the stress had driven him to settle for something normal, but he was never supposed to live that way. Cisco Ramon had never been a “normal” person and he never should have tried to fit himself in that box.

And now, even in Gotham City, he seemed to be thriving, eyes lit like someone had struck a match. She longed to catch the flame that freed him, and she intended to do just that. She just had to push herself to say the words first.

“Cisco,” she started, catching his sturdy gaze with the seriousness of her tone. “I said it’s different at the lab without you. You believe that, don’t you?”

“I’m sure you have to do twice the work.”

“That’s not what I mean,” she said, gazing down at her hands, her face tentative, like she was about to rip off a bandage. “It isn’t about the work. I like the work.”

He resisted the smirk that came in response to Caitlin’s seriousness, the kind that she used when Cisco was having far too much fun in the lab to get anything done. Instead, he waited on her, taking a sip of his coffee.

“It’s lonely, I guess. I know you’re the right person for this job and I still think you should do it, but I didn’t realize how much I’d miss you.”

She looked embarrassed when he looked at her, thoroughly confused why such a confession would cause her to want to shrink back in the way she was right then. So he tried to calm her fears and take her hand again, a smile forming at the thought of being missed. Because he had to be honest. He doubted it at times. When everyone had someone else it could be hard. Even when he was with Kamilla, he was fairly certain she would be alright if he never came back from Crisis. He was even sure that Caitlin would get over it eventually and go on living her life without much of a shift. But here she was, earnestly telling him that she missed him, after only three weeks.

“Then I’ll come back,” he said as if the rest of the world could wait. Everything would sort itself out eventually. Somebody else could easily do it. Somebody without strings attached. If Caitlin needed him in Central City, he would ride home with her in the car right at that moment.

“No,” she said, shaking her head, her face slightly flushed. “I think this is something you’ll be really good at and I don’t think you should quit.”

He agreed to some extent with her assumption, being that he had always been excellent at organizing data. The task before him, though a bit overwhelming, was something he genuinely found interest in. He didn’t quite want to stop, but again, if Caitlin said the word, everyone who knew them had no doubt he would be there in an instant. “I still can’t get the extrapolators to work, or my powers for that matter. It would be so much easier if I could just breach back to see you whenever I could.”

“I know.”

“I’m going to figure it out eventually.”

She nodded, playing with a loose strand of her hair, her eyes still tentative. “I know you will, Cisco.” She paused, but it was very clear she had more to say, but she wasn’t sure she had the courage to say it. To impose. To cling to him in such a way. To make it so abundantly clear that she was missing him so intensely.

“What is it?” he asked, voice full.

She breathed, straightened her hands out on her lap, smoothing out her skirt. “I didn’t realize until you left...how much you meant. I’ve been a wreck, Cisco. I can’t do it anymore. I need to be with you.”

“Then we’ll go back to Centra-”

“No, Cisco. I want to be your partner. I want to go with you.”

Cisco’s calm demeanor changed slightly so that he looked uncertain, alert in a way that implied he was really considering her words. Not rejecting them, but they confused him. Rattled him a bit. Like there was still so much she was not saying, bit back behind her now watery eyes, watching him with an invitation.

“You want to travel with me?” he asked carefully, his expression relaxing significantly.

“Yeah, I can help. Plus, while we’re in Gotham, you can’t possibly tell me you wouldn’t want Frost by your side for safety. At least until you get a hold of being Vibe again.”

He nodded repeatedly, as if showing agreement to all of her points, but he looked cautious, a new thought popping into his head suddenly as his eyes lit up. “Caitlin, that sounds like so much fun.”

She nodded vigorously, her long hair falling over her eyes for a moment, suddenly being pushed to the side of her ear by her best friend, who looked somewhat dazed as he pressed her hair back. “It does,” she said almost mutely, voice shaking ever so slightly.

He paused, his face still close, an urgent look forming in his eye. “I’ll let you come with me, I guess.” And then he grinned. “As long as you agree to be my Valentine. I want all those scary Gotham men to know that a guy like me can definitely get a girl like you.”

She stopped short, her mind racing at his question. “Definitely,” she said quickly, then, smoothing out her hand over the hand that she hadn’t realized she was touching on the table, she soaked in the view, letting a lazy smile meet her lips. “Only if you really mean it.”

“Only if we can be a power couple,” he said, smirking.

She groaned, rolling her eyes. “The most powerful in Gotham, for sure. Vibe and Frost, taking on Gotham together.”

Gaze still steady, he shook his head. “ Frost and Vibe, taking on Gotham together!”

“The whole world together.”

“ Everything together.”

And then she gasped, realizing what she was doing and what Cisco was returning and she began to giggle, her hand falling over her mouth as she forced her eyes onto the table. The room was spinning, even more so when Cisco’s hand wrapped around her hand and squeezed it.

“But in all seriousness, I want you to be my Valentine. I want to be with you. I just…” he sighed, turning his head to get back in her view. “I just wasn’t sure how to say it and if you’d want the same thing. I didn’t want to get hurt.”

Cisco straightened in his seat, as Caitlin’s eyes courageously lifted from the table.

“And I’d never want to scare you away. You’re my best friend, and I’d rather be just your friend than risk losing all of that.”

Caitlin just stared at him, struck with what was happening, and that she had been foolish to think he would be weirded out by her neediness for him or deny her when she suggested their partnership. And all along, even if he was with someone else, he deep down felt for her in a way surpassing the platonic nature she feared he would only ever desire. But he was looking back at her, a content little smile growing bigger as she stared at him, her face growing hotter by the second.

She gasped, her eyes going wide with dumb recognition. “I love you.”

Staying composed, his dark eyes squinting as his smile grew and he laughed. “How long?”

She startled, her cheeks feeling feverish as swallowed. “Since...almost three years ago. You never gave up on me. I couldn’t forget that. And you’re the reason I was okay. That I am okay.” She bit her lip, not sure if she should repeat his question or if she should keep her mouth shut, being that he had never confessed that he loved her in the same way.

But then, as she glanced up at him nervously, he froze, “Oh.” Then he laughed. “Caitlin, I love you too, of course. I’ve loved you since...god. I don’t know.”

She couldn’t move.

“I don’t really remember a time when I didn’t at least have a massive crush on you.”

“Oh,” she said, smiling warmly at him, hoping that the turn in her stomach wouldn’t serve as a warning of what was to come, awkwardness and nervousness all around. But her heart was racing, and she couldn’t quite find a way to make it stop that didn’t involve flatlining.

But when he had packed up their leftover pancakes (because Cisco had ordered far too many) and told the waitress that he would like some extra syrup packets for his “Valentine,” she was certain the awkwardness would be worth it.

They walked out into the evening lights, glancing around at the shady neighborhood with equal nervousness. So Caitlin let Frost take the wheel, putting her arm protectively around Cisco’s shoulder with eyes narrowed at anyone who looked as if they might try to make a move. The walk to Caitlin’s car and back to the place Cisco was staying would surely be interesting, but Caitlin had a point when she said having Frost as security would be a good thing.

Giddy with the thought of Caitlin loving him the same way he loved her caused him to smile too brightly for a passerby in Gotham, screaming, “Frost and Vibe, taking on Gotham!”

Frost rolled her eyes, not sure how she was going to deal with this new development.

“Frost and Vibe, taking on Gotham,” she muttered, deciding to have a pointed conversation later with Caity.

#Killervibe #Cisco Ramon #Caitlin Snow #The Flash #killervibevalentine #killervibevalentine20 #valentine #Cisco and Caitlin #Killer Frost #arrowverse #valentine's day

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storywriting · 5 years ago

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Anemone, An Enemy, Anemone, An Enemy Anemone, Anne, Nemo, and Another Me

[ So.......Anemone huh? Here’s some loose thoughts after a first viewing, including my takes of H1-Evo #1 and how my opinion has evolved now that this film is in the mix. I’ve seen it through with the JP audio exactly one time and I do wonder if my opinion on this film will change at all on a second viewing or when I get around to the dub. It’s less about plot details and more about review and general discussion type stuff, doesn’t delve heavy into theorizing just yet. That’s a trip for a different post. Cut because long as fuck even though literally nobody asked. ]

Hi Evolution #1, starring our main man Renton “Only a Miniscule Few Braincells Above Himbo” Thurston, hit me in weird ways which I think is true for most everybody I’ve seen talking about it. Part of my problem with it honestly was that I came into things with the misconception that Hi-Evolution would be a reboot of sorts. A somewhat faithful retelling of the original story with new insight into things we didn’t get to see much of. I don’t know why this is the impression I had other than screencaps and stuff, but if you only watch the first Hi Evo movie you definitely could continue to think that once it’s over. When I thought it would be an encapsulation of the original series, I had intended to use the film to introduce @himbologythestudyofhimbo to the story. She has long known it to be one one of my most favorite anime franchises and I thought a film would be a good way to gauge whether she might find it interesting enough to hit 50 episodes with me.

Ha. Haha. That didn’t work.

I hadn’t seen Hi-Evo when I was like “hey wanna watch this?” so that’s my own fault. I had seen screenshots and thought it looked gorgeous, but that was about it. I was imagining something akin to the Berserk trilogy of movies, mostly faithful to the original story with some new tidbits of information thrown in for old fans.

And again, you could be forgiven for seeing the first Hi-Evo movie and still thinking that’s what you’re in for. It is mostly compliant to the original canon and the parts that aren’t compliant are pretty wishy washy about saying so. Unfortunately what I found out really quickly is that that it’s not at all a good entry point for new fans, and that really disappointed me. I’ve been hoping for years for something to get more young blood in this fandom, BUT ANYWAY--

The whole play forward/play back thing really hinders the flow of the film, as much as I understand the point of it, especially with the Anemone film for more context. Skipping around the timeline harms new viewers in particular. It’s challenging to understand the timeline and flow of events because everything is presented out of order and without context. Sure, the first Hi-Evolution covers a ton of major story beats surrounding Renton’s personal development, but the non-chronological presentation coupled with the utter lack of lead up to key moments from the original series robs this movie of carrying any emotional weight. Who is Renton? What’s the deal with him and wheelchair girl? Are these people his parents or not? Why do we care about this Eureka girl who has been on screen in Renton’s presence for a cumulative 30 seconds. Wait a minute what’s this ship? Where did he leave from again? I thought he had a home and parents? Who are these people and why do I care?

Put bluntly this movie sucks if you can’t answer these questions going in, and even if you can you may feel a bit cheated by it. As much as I feel the need to talk about how the film is inaccessible for new fans, these films clearly are not for new fans. They function to remind you of events of the original story and then play off of those events with the new content. Even as an established fan, Hi-Evo #1 feels very watered down on its own, but it’s not on its own anymore is it? So let’s finally talk about Anemone.

What becomes clear about these movies is that they are not divided by chronology, but by character. The first movie was about Renton which is why we saw so so little of everybody else even when that robbed the story of needed context and worked to the story’s detriment. I’m telling myself the reason titular character Eureka was not on screen demonstrating her relationship to the world and to Renton despite it most likely being a central element is because they shoved her scenes into Hi-Evolution 3: Eureka, which will not be released for another year or so.

I do feel a bit more forgiving toward these movies now that I understand the format they’re going for, but I think most of my previous criticisms still stand despite that. The character focused presentation may be a deliberate creative decision, but that doesn’t make it an ideal storytelling mechanism. THAT SAID, while a character centric format really harms well developed characters like Renton, it does loads and loads of good for a character like Anemone whose screen time was always hindered by her role as accessory to Renton and Eureka’s story. We don’t get that constant stream of unfiltered perspective from her or really any secondary character, so it’s very interesting to see the world filtered purely through her eyes. I honestly found myself significantly more interested in all the new Anemone content than I ever could have been over watered-down, abbreviated rehashing of Renton’s character arc. I’m much more excited for the last film than I was with just the context of the first Hi-Evolution movie.

Speaking of which, very early on in the Anemone film, the viewer is clued into the fact that this is most certainly AU content, something that was less clear about the first movie. Eureka Seven as a franchise has really been in the 24/7 AU zone for like 10 years, which I think is cool but I also find a little disappointing. I like AU content well enough, but I also think they had a rich world already in the original series and I feel like there are a few more rich veins to explore further in the original world without necessarily needing to wrap it up in a convoluted alternate universe. Not to say I’m against like the AU stuff or anything, I’m okay with it existing, I just want a little more variety in the stuff that’s coming out. Keep up with the AU stuff if you guys wanna but I wouldn’t say no to more backstory and lore, you know? If they’re gonna pander to old fans instead of attracting new ones, they may as well hit me where it hurts. But I digress. Hi Evolution#2: Anemone’s AUness is pretty central to the story it wants to tell, so it has my full attention there.

Alternate universe characterization is something I’ve had both complaints and praise for in the past, and I’m happy to say that in the case of Anemone I have mostly praise. It’s nice to get a glimpse of an Anemone who isn’t like....as unhinged as her original incarnation. She’s well adjusted comparably, which makes her a decently reliable narrator. While she loses some of the edge that people are drawn to about her, she maintains most of the underlying personality traits you would expect of even the earliest incarnation of Anemone. This is an Anemone who had the opportunity to be socialized. You can relate to her and appreciate her feelings more easily than the Anemone viewers are most familiar with. This is an Anemone with hardships, but she hasn’t been pushed to the same extremes as her PoP counterpart. Likely due to the pretty direct narration and background, there’s also a lot more substance to her than PFoR Anemone in my opinion. It’s not really a chore to like her and take interest in her. She feels very natural in most instances. She’s a real breath of fresh air for fans who love Anemone and wanted to see her living with a healthier mindset and some better outcomes. Good on you, Anemone. Four for you, Anemone.

Most of the other characters--Dominic, the scientists, background people, Anemone’s father, new crew members, etc--are all about what you’d expect from either their previous incarnations or the archetypes they’re filling. None of the new characters or secondary characters are particularly developed, but I don’t really consider that a huge fault of it. I wouldn’t expect a 2 hour movie to meander the way a 50 episode anime can, but in times like this when I am with very few developed characters, I am forcefully reminded of what an asset and a strength the original’s depth and breadth of character writing is.

And then there’s Eureka. I expect her to be polarizing in the reviews, assuming at least some people didn’t straight up hate her in it. Everybody may have just hated it, idk.

As I said earlier alternate universe characterization is something I’ve had both complaints and praise for in the past, often both at the same time. What often comes about is characterization that I don’t necessarily like, but because the character has lived a different life I can’t really say that characterization is wrong. I feel that pull in this film quite a bit. Wrathful Eureka is boring to me. Conceptually, it just is. But does that make it bad?

Man, idk, I guess not. I didn’t like it, but I’ll defend it to a degree. In the original story Eureka was born into violence and conditioned to perpetuate violence early in life. The original Eureka Seven has a dense messaging about propaganda and information and the ways in which society conditions people of all kinds. Eureka is a docile character in the original but more and more as we learn about her, we realize that this tendency toward gentleness isn’t just a cutesy character trait of hers. It’s a choice that she’s making on a daily basis, even when more forceful options would be easier or make more sense to her. It’s a choice that has come about from a collection of experiences. Eureka becomes pacifistic because she develops her own ideals about the world. She comes to conclusions about what things make her a good or bad person and she makes the decision to be the person she wants to be. There’s weight to it. That’s something that always really drawn me to her as a character. It’s very easy to blow up in the face of something horrible. It’s much harder to keep a cool head and exercise mercy. I just don’t find the Eureka of this world all that compelling.

That said, I don’t necessarily think this read of her is wrong or even impossible. In fact, I think if this read had 50 episodes of development and justification behind it, I might even come to appreciate it. Certainly if anything could drive her to this, it would be losing Renton, so it’s not exactly out of left field for the character given the circumstances she’s in. I feel somewhat similarly about PFoR Eureka. Only somewhat. Eureka in general is a character who would probably be much more in touch with her anger if she had been raised any other way than she was. Even in the original series Eureka has a passive aggressive streak. She’s probably very fortunate that more productive methods of expressing her feelings were accessible to her before any natural tendency toward aggression was. Angrier more volatile reads of Eureka aren’t wrong or even uninteresting necessarily, but to me a lot of her charm is wrapped up in the reasons she works so hard not to be that type of character.

I also think that subversion and role reversal can be an interesting in AU stuff, so I don’t really fault them for using it here. In contrast to our typical unhinged Anemone, Eureka gets to be the one teetering on the edge so that Anemone can shine and show a little more humanity than she typically gets to. I think that’s honestly okay. I want to see Anemone have her day to be the hero. That’s something I’m okay with sacrificing a little of my preferred characterization for. I see a lot of value in a portrayal that allowed Eureka and Anemone to bond and more directly learn together. I think a lot of fans, myself included, wonder about a reality where Eureka and Anemone could have been sources of support for one another rather than pitted against one another.

That isn’t to say that I’m automatically okay with chopping up the writing in arbitrary ways, though. The thing about the reversals and subversions in Hi-Evo #2 is that they’re consistent. Compare to something like Pocketful of Rainbows and you’ll see what I mean. In that movie Renton, for some unclear reason, is the one who can understand Nirvash even though that writing decision doesn’t really serve the story in any meaningful way because Eureka is still the one who isn’t human and still is wanted by the military for....being whatever unclear thing she is in that film. Renton is no longer childish and is in fact the patient one in the story while Eureka is the one with a stubborn attitude and defined temper. Renton is made out to be more of a coward so that he has something to grow from, except for all the many many times he isn’t cowardly pretty much immediately, and the only flimsy defense of this concept that is that he was afraid of adults with guns when he was a literal child. Meanwhile, Eureka in this film is a much more brash character than we’re used to. Unlike Original Eureka, this one doesn’t want to be led or take orders anymore. She’s a loose canon who takes matters into her own hands except for all the times she cries for Renton to save her both before and after she’s teetering on her own Independence Event Horizon. There are a lot of creative decisions in that film that just plain don’t make sense to me because the writing doesn’t commit to them at all and tends to flounder around between them. I could barely make it through that film because I felt like it was contradicting itself every 5 minutes. It feels less like a new exploration of old characters and more like a bunch of ideas the writing team couldn’t agree on and slapped together anyway. If it wasn’t unclear, I don’t like Pocketful of Rainbows very much.

By contrast, any subversions or reversals in Hi-Evolution 2 fell earned enough. The writing choices are for the most part played straight and well justified. The choices are interesting. Unlike literally anything about the lore of Pocketful of Rainbows, I want to know more about Hi-Evolution. I want to understand what Anemone’s mission is and about Silver Box. I want to know why Dewey is so different from the Dewey I know. As much as I complained about Eureka’s characterization, the portrayal is decently justified by the writing. Eureka believes she killed Renton and seems to be privy to other realities where she turned out much happier. She has good enough reasons to be bitter in this iteration.

This film has honestly made me way more forgiving of Hi-Evo #1 and given me a lot of reason to take interest in what the last film might be. I’m going to reserve any big overarching judgement until that comes out in 6000 years, but I’m getting the sense that it might be New Order adjacent, in that Renton and Eureka will have to find one another and possibly revisit places that will be nostalgic for fans.I wouldn’t complain if this becomes the flagship verse wherein Eureka and Anemone form a meaningful friendship because they’ve been denied that opportunity in basically every other telling that exists so far.

Also big thank god the last film will be hand drawn because, I hate to be that guy but the GC looked like shitgarbage. I’ve become very forgiving of CG and Mocap recently but I just really disliked it in this film. Animation is a medium I know a lot about, I know compositing is a tricky job, I respect the work put into it, but...oof. I do wonder if that was a stylistic choice or more of an “oh shit the budget is disappearing” choice.

My final word on Eureka Seven Hi Evolution #2 is that....I didn’t hate it. I didn’t love it either but I had a nice enough time watching it. I’m realizing I’m having trouble landing in one particular spot on Hi Evolution #2 because I expect the next film will effect how I judge this one in the same way that this film has affected how I judged the first one. If you’re an Eureka Seven fan who is on the fence about the Hi-Evolution trilogy, I’d say give it a watch. You’ll still love your favorite characters even if they’re a little different than you’d hoped. If you’re still feeling iffy maybe wait a year until the last one comes out and binge them all at once. I suspect the experience might be improved that way. Definitely don’t go in expecting the story you already know, though. Doing that set me up for failure here.

Honorable mention for the fansubber who kept translating 勘 as very rude words describing the penis for some reason? That really enhanced my experience.

#;Eureka Seven Commentary #long post #please tumblr mobile load the cut don't hurt these people #∘⡊ ☾ ˚⊹To Be Continued⊹ — 「 OOC 」#;Hi Evolution Commentary #Hi Evolution Spoilers

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