#chat blanc never happened

[zukoromantic]

This is always extremely funny in dubs from something english because the change will simply happen unceremoniously and you so Feel the fact that this is in fact a translation

wish english could make switching from formal to informal “you” a plot point but noooo. like yes i’m aware it’s easier for me to not have to worry about conjugating or anything but have you considered it’s boring

[babywitchofthesouth-responds]

Anyone who’s read metamorphosis by peachcitt needs to listen to Landing Feet First by Bayside in the context of the dance scene towards the end:

‘i hope you weren’t waiting long, i hope this night makes up for time lost’

‘feels like i met you years ago and we’re picking up right where we left off’

Like if that’s not their internal mental states during that scene idk what is

[buggachat]

Honestly I think my take on the "Chat Noir was not there in the final battle" comes down to the fact that I kind of just don't think a satisfying final battle between Chat Noir and Monarch was actually possible.

I read a lot of fic, for example, and I've read the scenario play out a lot of times in a ton of ways and I've never been fully convinced of it tbh (and not because they weren't great fic!!). It seems just completely traumatic for Adrien in a way that the scenario inherently cannot properly focus on, because it's all happening in the middle of an action scene and Adrien is too busy being Mid-Battle to properly have a cathartic breakdown about it all. I mean, Chat Blanc already showed us what would happen if he did have a breakdown mid-battle (and why wouldn't he?). And though it'd be fun to have a big triumphant moment of him defeating his abusive father, Adrien simply isn't a character who would find that scenario triumphant, or cathartic, or anything other than viscerally traumatic.

Also, I agree that it's unfair that Chat Noir was not present— like it was unfairly tilted in Ladybug's favor— but I don't think it'd be fair if he was present, either. Because Marinette is, in fact, the main character. The main character whose character arc is primarily focused on her finding her footing as a hero and discovering all the responsibilities that come with that power (as opposed to Adrien, whose character arc is moreso about freedom and identity). And let's face it, in a fight between Ladybug and Chat Noir and Monarch, nobody would be focused on Ladybug at all. It's not about her. It's not her fight. She'd just be there as moral support and an extra set of hands, which really doesn't work for her character arc at all and is completely unfair to her!

Basically, it would just be Chat Noir temporarily acting as the main character and having the worst time of his life in the most un-cathartic battle for him possible left completely traumatized with Ladybug in the background awkwardly trying to comfort him after the fact? And then the season ends? And then the next season presumably goes back to Ladybug being the main character? After a time-skip to the new school year? It's just an ending that I feel like is a lot better in theory than actually on paper. And you can probably make an argument for ways that it could be made to work, where it would enhance Ladybug's story in a meaningful way where she still feels like the main character, and would somehow be triumphant for Chat Noir despite it probably being the worst moment of his life, and somehow not make the rest of the series following feel like bonus content as opposed to a continuation of the story...... but, I dunno. I think it's a lot easier said than done.

The fact of the matter is, I've always been waaayyyy more interested in how the aftermath of Gabriel's defeat affects Adrien than the battle itself. Post-Hawkmoth defeat is one of my favorite types of fic for a reason, and it's because the aftermath can be so juicy, especially for Adrien as a character. I think whether or not Adrien is actually there in the battle itself has always been kind of irrelevant to me, because no matter how Gabriel is defeated, his defeat will have immense repercussions on Adrien's life going forward. And the way they did it, Marinette is now a part of it in a more active way, too. Which is good for her character!

( Also, if he was there to triumphantly defeat Gabriel, would that mean he would just.... watch his father die? of cataclysm? a-and.... nathalie would just.... die, too? so he'd have three dead parents after all that? who he watched all die (or, in emilie's case, saw her corpse)? or is this a scenario where MONARCH BEATS CHAT NOIR and still makes the wish? is that cathartic? for Adrien to lose to Gabriel? Frankly, I loved seeing Gimmi and The Wish, it's been teased for so long that I was expecting it, and I loved the fact that Nathalie got to live as her narrative reward for coming to her senses and trying to murder Gabriel with a crossbow. I like that we got to watch a full season of Gabriel painfully dying to a cataclysm— poetically inflicted on him by Adrien, but of Gabriel's own doing. I like that Nathalie has presumably adopted Adrien after having an arc of her trying to be a parent to him once she realized nobody else would, that's so much more interesting than any other alternative. I just don't see how all of these things, some of my favorite things that season 5 gave, can still all exist at once with Chat Noir present in the final battle in any way that's satisfying. )

[bbutterflies]

I spend a lot of time thinking about what it would take to break adrien. what would it take to make him aggressive. to take someone who’s already been to hell and back, who tries so hard to be good and be kind and be patient and just shut up and deal with it. what’s his breaking point. and, honestly, if he’s scared what does he know to do? he knows to hide but what happens when there’s nowhere to hide? what happens when he’s trapped?

chat blanc, of course. it’s adrien and “I’m not a violent dog. I don’t know why I bite.” destroying the whole world out of self defense because he doesn’t know how else to keep himself safe. you see him before he’s akumatized, and right after, absolutely petrified with nowhere to run. so what does he do? he bites.

I feel like his instinct is so often to turn inwards, but if you take all his choices away – nowhere to run and nowhere to hide – he bites. of course he does. what does gabriel do when he’s angry? what does chloe do when she’s angry? what does felix do when he’s angry? (and, if we assume adrien isn’t such a reliable narrator about his mother, what did emilie do?)

he doesn’t know anything else. if you trap a scared dog, even if he’s a good dog, he’s going to bite.

and no wonder gabriel tried so hard to keep him on a leash. gabriel was literally keeping him in a muzzle. all the time. constantly. putting him in his crate. constantly. never socializing him. never letting him run around in the sun. a performance dog, all the time, and locked away at home like he can’t be trusted. (all this doubly so if you subscribe to senti-adrien)

and if you treat a good dog like a violent dog, he’s going to bite.

if you convince a good dog he’s a violent dog, if you convince him he can’t be let loose without doing harm to the people he loves, he’s going to be terrified he’s going to bite. he’ll do everything he can to be good and be kind and be patient and just shut up and deal with it. but all he knows how to do is to bite.

he’s not a violent dog. he doesn’t know why he bites. he doesn’t know that he doesn’t HAVE to bite. he doesn’t know anything else.

[mamayura]

Okay, yeah, I genuinely think that we will once again go back to this time period after the season 5 finale and before season 6

There are too many crucial things the special either left out or even contradicts with information we get in the last scenes of season 5 which takes place right before the new school year, whereas the special is right BEFORE the summer break. In France that break is 3 months, but even if it's not that real life number, then its was still the summer break and we obviously still need answers to unanswered questions.

Let's start with the most obvious thing:

1. How did Cerise get the Butterfly

We didn't see when or how Cerise got the Butterfly Miraculous and what on EARTH she did in the Agreste Mansion if she supposedly didn't watch the last battle and therefore SOMEHOW still doesn't know who Ladybug is.

Say "it's bad writing" all you want, but not explaining that AT ALL is a new level of neglectful. They didnt had to have her be there for almost the entire end battle. And SOME explanation is due to HOW she got the Butterfly.

Especially because

2. We never saw Marinette looking for it

At the end of season 5 Marinette explains that she turned into Aquabug and looked for the Butterfly, but couldn't find it.

I know its easy now to just say "Marinette is lying through her teeth", but this is something where it makes no sense for it to be a lie. A moment like this HAD to have happened, and I think it was hinted at in the special:

I think THIS is where her searching as Aquabug must have taken place, too, and it's why she afterwards runs crying to Nathalie.

It must have because right afterwards Marinette holds the press conference where she already states that the Butterfly is lost. AND Marinette at no point in the special is shocked or confused about the Butterfly being gone. We never get the moment of Marinette realising she forgot to look for the Butterfly and then her not finding it.

The special just smoothly transitions into her already knowing it's gone and not being surprised when it's already somehow in a villain's hand.

Combine this with us not having seen what Cerise did in the Mansion and how she even got the Butterfly, then yeah, I'm fully convinced that we'll be coming back to this, even if it's maybe gonna be in season 7 bc the show is frustrating like that.

Then of course:

3. Cerise's wish

We never got an explanation what her wish was. We know it was fundamentally changing the course of this time-line, threatening to end this one and creating a new one, but that doesnt mean you can just write it off as "Cerise wanted to nuke reality"

Cause Alix explicitly says that its not THAT dramatic. This wasn't Chat Blanc who almost wiped out all of reality. So Cerise's wish must have been something big, but not reality-shattering.

I would even go so far and say that the point of her using the wish was for the story to already get through with that for her character right away because she won't be after the wish in the show proper the way Gabriel was. That she had to realize that she cant just use the shortcut, because she's supposed to put her head into it and try to accomplish her goal herself. That this is what changed history, her using a shortcut. So her plan from here onwards will show us what she wished for.

---

As of right now, I would even make the argument that Gabriel's wish actually caused Cerise to loose her memory and this was her attempt at getting it back hence why she freaked out the way she did in the end.

Cause remember, she has known for ALL OF SEASON 5 that Gabriel was Monarque. Him being dead should not be the disqualifying factor here. She already KNOWS that. And it makes no sense that she didnt find out who Ladybug is in the Mansion.

So what I've already speculated for a year now is that Gabriel's vague wording of his wish will be the deciding factor here.

Because Gimmie is an individual, too, like all the Kwamis. The all-mighty personification of Reality and yet they're not allowed to actually be part of reality besides for the wish-granting (which Gimmie COMPLAINT about) and even there in their eyes people are asking for a mere grain of sand of the vast potential of Gimmie's power:

Meaning in short: I'm pretty sure we're dealing with genie logic now and Gimmie (aka God, I guess) used Gabriel's AMATEUR mistake of wishing something in the vaguest way possible (Gabriel, you fucking MORON!) and used the massive wiggle room to flex their power a bit and change reality into what they think is fun and interesting to watch play out.

Cause that's what Genie logic is. A genie doesnt fuck people over for no reason. A genie is an ancient and all-mighty being that's locked away, can't use its magic freely, and is dependent on the puny, young, and stupid humans who cant ever see the forest for the trees. Of course they grow bitter and deceitful to be able to live out any individuality and freedom in their awful prison.

Plus, I also find it the fitting route for the show to go that in the end we have to understand and help the abused Kwamis and powerful, but enslaved entities of nature, too. Gimmie is not wrong for being pissed and bitter about their awful prison, we just need to find a better way so Gimmie doesnt do shit like that anymore because of their exclusion in the reality THEY PERSONIFY

4. We never saw Marinette give Adrien back his amok rings

This even contradicts information we got at the end of season 5:

Adrien EXPLICITLY says that when Ladybug gave him his rings, she that this and that. But we SEE her saying it to him but not giving him his rings. So this doesn't check out. Adrien getting his rings is one of the most important moments too that just like the other ones was just skipped past with not so pretty implications.

Not to beat a dead horse, but people are really underplaying the head-fuckery Marinette is doing to Adrien with her STATED INTENTION of changing his memory to something better she decides for him, and especially when this isn't the first time she did this.

Sorry to break it to you guys, but it was already established in "Pretention" that Marinette's go-to solution is telling Adrien lies to make him believe his abuse isn't real and Gabriel is better then he is:

The scene has both Marinette and Adrien acknowledge that Gabriel is being controlling and doesn't allow Adrien his free time anymore so he can't see Marinette anymore. But once Adrien is sad about not being able to stop his father, Marinette does a 180 claiming that his father totally changed and allows him all the freedom he needs. Which he objectively DOESNT and she just pointed that out, too.

This is not some out of character thing Marinette is only now tragically being "abused" into doing by a dead Gabriel. She already did this before. This is nothing new. Its now just taken to a new level.

Combine this with Marinette being the second biggest liar in Miraculous (check out Flightfoot's post about it for more details) and how much she's for example still burring and isolating Chat Noir in lies and secrets so she doesn't feel uncomfortable in what she continues doing to him, even in the special when she just leaves him to believe his absence caused the death of an innocent man who's son is now an orphan

People are really too willing to keep ignoring or downplaying that lying, secret keeping and twisting the truth to her needs has already long become Marinette's default way of doing things.

No, she isn't ill-intentioned, but what Marinette does is incredibly harmful. You dont HAVE to be ill-intentioned to be able to genuinely hurt a person in a way that crosses the line. This is one of Miraculous' worst messages yet through Marinette herself. Saying "I meant well" automatically means the damage doesn't get to count because you felt bad for having done the bad thing so it actually getting to be BAD would be "mean" to YOU.

You can be toxic and hurting someone without meaning to or being "evil". That's why victims end up stuck in such relationships, it's because the person harming them is a 3 dimensional individual. And right now Marinette is pretty much borderlining doing just that and has shown the same tendencies long before the finale and special. This isn't new and was already harmful back then.

And PLEASE stop getting hung up on word definitions. You sound just like an abuse apologist who talks their or a friend's way out of accountability by a damn technicality bc you dont wanna face that you or a person you like can do a genuinely bad thing with no way around it. That it's not just some vague theoretical OTHER person who can do it, but a person in your life.

Now this of course doesn't mean that Marinette is an irredeemable monster (I literally just said that she's a 3 dimensional individual and not il'intentioned) but here is to hope that these ugly sides of Marinette will FINALLY be held to proper standards, so we can finally move past them.

Cause the way this end scene now reads is that after 3 months of summer break Adrien has started to seriously suppress his memories of the finale the way Marinette did in "Derision" because of all the insane trauma and loss he experienced. If Marinette suppressing her memories in "Derision" is valid, I dont wanna hear shit that what Adrien was put through "wasnt bad enough to warrent it". He lost his home bc his father send him away as punishment (yes, sending your child away means the child doesnt get to be in their home. DUH), he was seperated from his girlfriend and friends for what was supposed to at least a year, he had no idea if he would see Nathalie again because of her worsening sickness, his father was sick too, he has no choice whatsoever in his future, and he had nightmares of nuking the world blasted in his brain while being locked and watched in a white cell to be forced into submitting to control.

If Marinette suppressing her memory because she was bullied by Chloe is valid, then dont you dare imply that this isnt. By the end of the summer Adrien's memories could easily have been like a pile of playdoo and Marinette is out here spinning a web of lies that gives her validation in having done the "right" thing because he takes it and smiles.

By all mean, Cerise has all the dirt on Gabriel ever since "Revelation" and now the finale too. Let's just hope that the situation at hand will be taken care of properly instead of insisting that the situation doesnt exist at all. Cause that's not helping anyone.

Marinette's IS an opportunistic comfort liar and maybe if people would stop acting like that makes you a 1 dimensional demon we could actually acknowledge how realistic it is for Marinette to have continued changing how Adrien remembers things here so he's "happier" and Marinette herself can keep telling herself the same lies until she believes it too. Because Marinette does that a lot. It doesn't make her evil, but this is what happens when a person only gets free passes and isn't actually asked to work on themselves:

They get worse and so are the consequences of their actions on other people. Just like it should be with anybody else, it takes A LOT to actually cross the point of no return, but you cant just say "I'm a complex human being, so it can never be me". Cause that's actually the quickest way for you to end up acting in a way that no one should have to forgive you for. No matter the good intentions.

I've come to accept the solid likelihood that now Marinette and Cerise have switched roles in their established dynamic. Now Cerise is going to try and out the liar and Marinette will continue lying to cover herself.

Cause you also have to remember that Marinette just left the new villain with every other information in the notebook. She just took out her name, that's it. It is now unfortunately very likely that we'll get the dynamic from Ladybug and Chrysalis (if that's still her name) that Cerise will publicly try and reveal Ladybug's lies but Marinette will just assumes that this person can reveal the truth however she likes and Marinette as Ladybug will just claim something else everytime because she knows that most people will blindly believe Ladybug as authority and greatest hero ever.

Dont act like this hasnt been consistently built up for the last two seasons now of how Marinette uses her position of power. This is not out of nowhere and even the special only goes further in that direction with that "Only Ladybug will hold the truth and decide for the world what it is" speech.

You do you, but I will not ignore what I'm seeing. I'll instead try and figure out how there can be a happy ending despite of this being the direction of the show.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Character Driven vs. Plot Driven

I had someone message me asking what these terms meant and which Miraculous was and if it explained the writing, especially in context of the ending of season five and that's not something I can answer in a quick reply, so you all get a post instead!

Intro

At first glance, “character driven” and “plot driven” are somewhat confusing terms because almost every story has characters making choices that make things happen and almost every story has some kind of plot that's driving the action, so what do these terms even mean? Why do we use them?

The answer is that we generally don’t? These are high-level categorizations that I’ve almost exclusively seen talked about in things like writing classes where the instructor is trying to help you figure out your style preferences or perhaps painting a genre in broad strokes. I rarely see these terms come up when discussing specific works because they’re not that useful in the mirco. They never excuse or explain writing choices the way something like genre might because genre is a meaningful category and these really aren't. They're too vauge.

Also, as with many such binary categorizations, there’s a spectrum here. On one side is pure plot-driven and on the other is pure character-driven and in between them are most of the stories you'll consume in your life. In spite of that minor issue, I am going to start by defining what these two terms mean at their most extremes because that is relevant to the discussion. We’ll then use Miraculous to get into the nuance of the spectrum.

Character Driven

Character-driven narratives are stories that focus heavily on characters doing – or not doing – things because of their unique personalities, thoughts, and feelings. Stories where the events unfold almost entirely because of who the characters are and what very personal choices they make. Switch the characters and the story would look wildly different or even not exist at all.

When I think of pure character-driven works, I generally think of coming-of-age stories where there’s almost no plot to speak of. It’s just a teenage character struggling with life and learning to accept it. Character studies are another good example.

Plot Driven

Plot-driven narratives are stories that you're engaging with for something other than the characters. The characters are just set pieces that are there to be used by the plot. This means that the characters are probably making choice, but we’re not going to focus on the deep, nuanced reasons for those choices. Change the characters and the choices remain the same because the story is focused on something beyond the characters.

When I think of pure plot-driven stories, I think of stereotypical action movies. Movies where the villain is throwing things at the hero and the hero is overcoming them as fast as they can and so much is happening that you barely even know who these characters are because you're not here for the characters. You're here for the action, so it's fine if the characters are pretty generic. Mystery stories also tend to fit this category as those are often just about the mystery and the characters that aren’t developed beyond what is needed for the puzzle to work.

Nuance

So which is Miraculous?

If we must pick a side, then it’s going to be plot driven because that is Miraculous’ main writing style. It’s not here to study the characters and let them drive the action. It’s here to entertain kids in 20-minute-long chunks where the kids don’t need to know the greater context of who the characters are in order to get what is going on. Pick a random episode and it’s probably going to be one where a random akuma shows up and where everything that happens will never come up again. That is not what character-driven narratives look like. This is not a show brimming with things like Chat Blanc and the season five final. Those are exceptions to the rule.

However, the existence of those episodes and the fact that some of the characters aren't interchangeable shows that this isn’t a purely plot-driven show. The writers do want the characters to effect the world in unique ways decided by their personalities and motivations and relationships. Those are character-driven elements and is why these categories are kind of meaningless in this context. Plot driven vs character driven doesn’t justify or explain Miraculous’ writing choices because many of the writing choices make no sense in either type of story!

Narratives that are mainly plot-driven are not narratives plagued by poor characterization. They’re just ones where the characterization elements aren’t the main focus. You still want your characters to feel authentic and make sense and you can even have moments where the action is effected by who the characters are because plot-driven isn’t some hard rule. As I said at the start, it’s just a general categorization! Genre and format are infinitely more limiting and worthy of discussion because they actually come with some pretty clear rules.

Dunking on Miraculous

The problem with Miraculous is not that the plot is the main driving force of the action. The problem is that characters often make no sense! They act widely out of character for the sake of dragging out the plot, which is the plot driving the narrative, but that doesn’t make it good writing! “Because plot” is not an excuse, it’s just an explanation. In fact, because the show so often ignores the characters’ personalities for the sake dragging out the plot, it actually undermines the entire story because it feels cheap when the story tries to use the characters’ personalities to justify further delays Oh, now you’re letting this matter? Really? How nice. F-off.

Here are some examples of what I mean about the plot-driven nature of the show making inauthentic characters:

Alya is obsessed with finding out everything she can about the miraculous and even becomes a full-time team member in season four with the explicit job of tracking down the butterfly and the peacock, but she never does anything meaningful in that role. We never see her trying to track down the villains even though her character would absolutely do that. Her lack of action is wildly inauthentic.

Gabriel and Nathalie learn all of the temp heroes identities at the end of season three and make two minor efforts to do something with that information that before letting their god-tier knowledge fizzle to nothing even though those same temp heroes never stop being used. This is out of character for both of them, especially Nathalie. In a story that was true to its characters, this would have meaningful consequences such as all the temp heroes having to be benched and/or the villains guessing that Ladybug is someone who knows these people since they have some obvious connections.

The secret identities are the only reason Ladybug lost all of the miraculous at the end of season four and Adrien knows this. The season also ends with Ladybug promising to trust him more and the next season opens on an episode where she does just that. In spite of this, Adrien never even tries to tell her about the secret identity thing and Ladybug never seems to become more open with her partner because, if the show did those things, then an identity reveal would happen and they can't let that happen so, once again, plot trumps characterization.

When a show is plagued by asinine choices such as these while also trying to claim it has these overarching plots and meaningful character beats, the story can come to feel disingenuous and frustrating to a lot of fans. That’s why we can get something as divisive as the season five ending. Because of the poor writing that lead up to that final, it’s hitting different people in different ways depending on how tolerant they are of a lot of the shows previous flaws.

Would it be hard for Marinette to tell Adrien the truth? Sure! That struggle is - in theory - a genuinely good character beat, but it falls flat for many because it comes after multiple seasons of forced, inauthentic delaying tactics that spat in the face of established characterization for basically every meaningful character. With those in mind, it’s hard to view the secret keeping as some authentic, meaningful choice for Marinette’s character when she and many others have been denied so many other authentic, meaningful choices.

This is extra true because her choice to keep both Adrien and Chat Noir in the dark just compounds the issue of the authentic growth that Marinette has been denied! I briefly touched on this in that last example in my list, but we just spent an entire season watching her and Chat Noir maintain their distance in spite of that being something that should have changed based on the character-based events of the last season. Remember, season four gave us this moment in Penalteam:

Ladybug: (looks around them and frowns) I'm sorry, I've been a bad captain. I played a solo game, I forgot we're a team. I'm gonna need all of you now, more than ever. Rooster Bold: Are you sure? I'm not really.. Ladybug: You're an excellent player, Rooster Bold. That's why I chose you. That's why I chose all of you! Let's play together, and bring all of our individual strengths together onto the field!

And this moment in the final, which is the two-part episode directly after Penalteam:

Ladybug: Why don't you just give up on me? I've lost ALL the Miraculous! I'm the worst Guardian EVER! I wanted to control everything, I didn't listen to you, I lied to you, I kept you at a distance! Every time you offered me a helping hand, I never took it! I really made a mess of EVERYTHING! (continues sobbing)

We are, as always, going to ignore that these things don't really match the story that season four told and instead take them at face value since this is the stated lesson. The viewers are being directly told that Ladybug went into season five having learned to trust others and stop keeping Chat Noir at a distance.

But did she? What actually changed in season five? I can't think of anything. Season five maintained all of the secrets and ended by adding new ones. We also had to suffer through Marinette doing absolutely nothing to try to find the missing kwamis even though that is wildly inauthentic to her character. Once that girl has a problem to solve, she obsesses over it! It's one of the few things that consistently gets her acting normal around Adrien, so why did her brain shut off and go full-Adrien for all of season five?

Add in the fact that a major plot of season five was outing Lila's lies and lies being bad and Marinette keeping this secret falls incredibly flat both plot-wise and character-wise. There's a reason that one of the main justification people use for the lie is a scarf from season one that we have literally never seen again and that Marinette never actually lied about. The show simply did not set itself up to make Marinette's lie feel like some authentic character beat. The best justification most people can give is that a 14-year-old would probably struggle to reveal this secret.

To be fair, that is a believable justification. That's believability is why the season five ending could have genuinely worked in a better show where the characters felt more authentic or even if it came much earlier in the story. If this was the season two ending, then I think that most people would be engaged by it and I’d probably even be defending Marinette’s actions because this is a massive thing to put on someone’s shoulders and she was early in her journey. Heck, I have defended her actions by pointing out that she was the last-informed of the group of people in the know and none of them are telling Adrien, so this is not all on her.

But that's the best I can do while being authentic to the story because this lie isn’t part of a story with authentic characters. Marinette has not been set up to lie like this and the lie is being told at the end of a season full of poor storytelling after multiple seasons of stalling tactics, making it impossible to take this lie seriously. Even if Miraculous was a primarily character-driven show, you can’t use that to justify the lie while ignoring all the poor characterization that surrounds it. The writers gave Marinette the kind of journey that should lead to her being brave enough to tell the truth, not the kind of journey where she was too much of a coward to tell the truth. The writing also never set up Nathalie or Kagami as the kind of people who would just bow to Marinette's wishes. It is glaringly obvious that this is all happening as a delaying tactic and not because it's a good choice for the characters or the plot.

[masodemic]

We as a fandom don’t talk enough about this

In Chat Blanc, when Gabriel tries to separate Adrien and Marinette, Marinette’s response is to comply to that demand and breaks up with Adrien, prompting him to run after her and is forced to out himself as Chat Noir. This incident leads to the blue-eyed nightmare that is Chat Blanc.

But in Pretension, when Gabriel tries to separate Marinette and Adrien again, this time by threatening Marinette that if she doesn’t give up Adrien, he will make sure she can never work a single day in the fashion business. However, this time, Marinette stands up to Gabriel. More importantly, she reassures Adrien that she will NEVER abandon him.

This is important for 2 reasons:

1. It really demonstrates how gutsy Marinette has grown. She is no longer weak in the face of a looming authority like Gabriel Agreste. She is now confident, assertive, and not going to obey anybody, much less Gabriel.

2. Marinette shows Adrien that she can be his emotional pillar of support, so that he is no longer alone. He has somebody to rely on when his father fails (which, let’s be real, Gabriel gets worse and worse each season). And to show him that standing up to Gabriel is possible and absolutely the right thing to do, she could have inspired him to try and stand up for himself too.

Is Chat Blanc still a looming specter of threat? Perhaps as both Marinette and Adrien grow up into confident and self-assured adults, he will become less and less of a nightmare, just a “what could have been.”

In other words, I’m not pressed about the reveal. It’ll happen when it feels natural and consensual for both sides. Even if that means season 12 🤣🤣🤣

[flightfoot]

I'd like to see Adrien snapped at Marinette for the whole lies she told him, even better if it happen after reveal so all lies will come to light and break up would be nice. But i really have no faith in this show anymore because if anything this show will go either Adrien get angry at Marinette but will forgive her a minute later because him being angry make her sad, Adrien get angry and left but something happen that make him misunderstood something and end up forgiving her despite everything like Kuro neko or it will happen in erased timeline a la chat Blanc or ephemeral.

Yeah I agree with you, like I want him to forgive Marinette for the lies and for them to make up (after he sets some boundaries with her that she makes sure to respect) but I'd want there to be tension between them for a few episodes, and for him to get to be angry at Marinette for a few days first.

Like we've seen Ladybug get to be angry at Chat Noir in the NY special and even to say that she doesn't trust him anymore for simply not informing her that there was a change of plans at the last minute and he'd be leaving Paris after all. Chat should get to be at LEAST as angry at her as she was at him in that scene.

Sparrow:(deep voice) You've come all the way from Paris to help us out? Cat Noir: Yeah! We thought it'd be friendly to give you a hand in honor of French American Friendship Week! (Techlonizer gets down and uses its laser beam as Ladybug, Cat Noir, Uncanny Valley and Sparrow split up.) Sparrow:(deep voice) See that?! They don't need anyone's permission to take action! Ladybug: That's right! He never asks for anything! DO YOU, CAT NOIR! Uncanny Valley: Sparrow, did you warn Knightowl and Majestia? (she punches Techlonizer) Sparrow:(deep voice) I couldn't! But you know what?! -- we don't need anyone's permission either! Uncanny Valley: Are you sure you wanna step out of the procedure? Sparrow:(deep voice) This is our chance to prove to them they were just like these two! Autonomous, bonded together but trust and super efficient! Ladybug: "Just go and rest easy! Yeah, leave Paris with me!" Cat Noir: I-I didn't know I was going to leave! It was a last-minute decision, that's all! (Techlonizer hits Ladybug and Cat Noir. Sparrow and Uncanny Valley are shocked.) Ladybug: Do you realize that because of you there's no one left in Paris to protect the city?! (Techlonizer runs away efficiently.) Ladybug: He's running away! Sparrow:(deep voice) You sound like Captain Obvious! Ladybug: Why didn't you tell me that you were leaving?! Cat Noir: I was afraid you'd get angry! Ladybug: And you were right, because as you can see, I AM angry!! Scene: New York City. Uncanny Valley: Autonomous, bonded by trust and super-efficient?! Sparrow: (deep voice) Yeah, I might have overestimated them. (Techlonizer lands down. Uncanny Valley drops Sparrow.) Sparrow: (deep voice) Surrender, Techno-Pirate! There's nowhere to run now![Superpower Sequence] [Cut to Cat Noir] Cat Noir:Cataclysm! (Cat Noir uses his Cataclysm.) [Cut to Ladybug] Ladybug:Lucky Charm! (Ladybug summons a bicycle pump.) Cat Noir: A bicycle pump? What are you gonna do with that? Ladybug: I may have an idea, but you wouldn't like it! Techlonizer: Why run away when I can finally get me revenge by eliminating the beloved kids of AMERICA'S MOST BELOVED HEROES! Cat Noir: M'lady, I didn't tell you because I was afraid of losing your trust! Ladybug: Well, I can't trust you anymore, can I?!

Side Note: I still think Ladybug was way angrier at Chat Noir than she deserved to be, especially considering that the Shanghai special canonically took place before this one, and she didn't give any notice that she was leaving when she totally could have (Chat didn't either, but it was last minute for him so he probably didn't get the chance).

But yeah. If Ladybug gets to berate Chat about the consequences of his actions in the middle of a fight and say that she's lost trust in him simply because he didn't tell her that he was forced to leave Paris at the last minute, then Adrien should be allowed to also say a similar level of stuff about being angry and losing trust in her over her lying about what kind of a person his father is and how he died.

[ilikekidsshows]

Okay, perhaps you can clarify something for me. My main takeaway for why Adrien supposedly couldn't be there for season 5 finale was because Gabe would discover his secret identity and use his amok to control him (and because the writers don't want to give up their love-square-secret-identity-cash-cow shenanigans, of course, but that's another topic). I figured it's less about Adrien having intense emotions/potentially being akumatized and more a consequence of....Gabe being willing to mind control his senti-son, as we've blatantly seen in Ephemeral and arguably Chat Blanc.

So why do so many takes about the finale seem to ignore Monarch's ability and willingness to mind control him and instead complain about how Adrien was being "weak" or "emotional" or even "a wimp left crying". Like?

I'm not trying to defend the finale or writing decisions that lead to him sitting it out, the writers could have worked around it if they really wanted to (which, we obviously know they didn't), but I interpreted Astruc's statements on how 'Chat Blanc and Ephemeral explain why Adrien couldn't be there' (I'm paraphrasing from memory, correct me please if Astruc didn't more or less say this), to be about his senti status?

So why is victim blaming Adrien for being the 'problem' because he's "too emotional" seem to be the norm, rather than, oh I don't know, blaming the man manipulating the situation and taking advantage of the fact that he can mind control his son?

For instance. I interpreted Hawmoth's "Obey!" in Chat Blanc to be a senti command, but I can see how that might be a bit ambiguous/debatable. But then we have Ephemeral, which is -blatantly- due to the control Gabe has over Adrien as the holder of his amok. Sure Adrien is emotionally compromised, but it's only -after- we get our visual cue of Gabe twisting the amok (aka using mind control) that he gives in. Astruc seems to be arguing that this would have necessarily, inevitably happened again in the season 5 finale (ignoring for now that theoretically a confrontation -could- happen in which Gabe doesn't find out, but I digress).

And I'm not even talking about Adrien salters; positive or negative opinions on him, the finale, and/or sentimonster status aside, the consensus seems to be that the writers screwed Adrien over by making him "too emotional" to be there at the finale, when the message I got was that it was never actually his fault at all? AKA "Whoever possesses this controls the sentimonster, [Sentibug] couldn't help but follow orders."

There are issues with the finale, yes. But regarding the senti aspect specifically. Am I missing something? Misinterpreting Chat Blanc, maybe even Ephemeral, or something?

This got a bit long, apologies, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts, if you're willing! Thanks either way in advance!

---

Well, to start off, we need to look at framing. Framing refers to how the different things that happen and are said in a story frame, aka, contextualize each other. You can't just look at bits of a story in isolation if you want to discuss how a story frames a particular event. In this case, we’re discussing the scene where Adrien gives up the ring in the season 5 finale. We can't jump back two entire seasons or go to Twitter to get the framing of this scene, because the framing immediately around the scene, the rest of the episode itself, and the episode right after it, its "Part 2", are the primary framing and should take precedence when we discuss how this scene comes across to the audience.

This is especially true because Miraculous is still being written as primarily an episodic show. Astruc himself said this in the commentary, and the episode ‘Conformation’ has no mention of Sentimonsters anywhere. In fact, most of the finale ignores the fact that Adrien is a Sentimonster, outside of the scene where Marinette gives him his Amok objects while not telling him what they are. Adrien doesn’t know he’s a Sentimonster; one of the reasons the fandom is ragging on Marinette is that she endangered Adrien by giving him the rings while not telling him what they are, because he doesn’t know. That’s a pretty big aspect in this.

Within the episode itself, Adrien doesn’t give up his ring because he’s a Sentimonster, he can’t, because he doesn’t know. He gives up his ring because he's 100% convinced he’s a liability because he is “not in his right mind”, he could get Akumatized and his identity could get discovered. These are the things Adrien himself lists as his motives, this is how the episode itself frames Adrien not going to fight Hawk Moth. Adrien doesn't know he's a Sentimonster, so that has no influence on his decision to sit out. He was having an emotional downward spiral and he knew he couldn't rely on his partner and leader Ladybug to help him through it, so he decided to try to deal with it alone while trying to minimize the damage if he failed to do so. The entire Ladynoir conflict arc in season 4 culminated in Adrien coming to the conclusion that he can never ask Ladybug for anything in ‘Kuro Neko’, and here we see him instantly retire when he needs support. Our greatest Ladybug ever will only use him for emotional support while never offering any in return, and Adrien knows this.

By all accounts, this total breakdown of the partnership of our main leads, who are also the main romantic couple of this series, should be treated as the darkest hour of the entire franchise so far. Instead we’re expected to forget about it in moments and celebrate Marinette's girlboss moment of wearing both the main Miraculouses and getting a yet another Unification Form. In episodes where Marinette breaks down, the action pauses so that the rest of the cast can line up to comfort and prop her up. When Adrien breaks down, it leads to Marinette getting a cool powerup. That's why the writers “planned from the start” that Adrien wouldn't get to help take down his father, because the writers had decided to give his superpowers to Marinette to “symbolize her growth”, but all they ended up symbolizing was Adrien stripping himself of what little power and agency he has to prop up Marinette, who will pay him back by lying to him. This is the difference in how Miraculous frames Marinette and Adrien’s emotional breakdown moments.

This is why the discourse is about Adrien being overly emotional, about the writers presenting Adrien’s emotions as a weakness and liability. Adrien is literally on screen, saying he considers his emotions a burden to others. Adrien gives up his ring and, unknowingly, his last chance to face his father, because he is too emotional. Adrien is made to feel guilty for his emotions in a way Marinette never is, in a way no other character ever is. That would already be a disgusting way to treat an abuse victim, but then the show continues to frame this writing decision first with Marinette directly benefiting from him breaking down and giving up and then with having Marinette lie to him after the fact about it all, because she wants to “protect him��. From what? With all this other stuff, I’m just gonna have to assume his emotional response to the truth. We can't forget the nightmare where Marinette is scared Adrien will be upset at her for beating his dad. Because he can't be Marinette's perfect RealDoll reward if he's justifiably hurt or, god forbid, not 100% pleased with her.

It's about the abuse apologia, because most of the shittiest things about the retool come down to the abuse apologia.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

The Reveal is Worthless

I entreat the reader to remember the earlier period of the Miraculous fandom, back when Ladybug and Chat Noir were something like actual partners instead of superior and subordinate.

There was something special about their relationship. They were friends who cared for one another, who relied upon one another and trusted each other in a way they could no one else, despite neither knowing the true name of the other. They didn't fully know one another, but their relationship was a one-a-kind friendship based upon a unique experience between them that no one else could relate to.

And of course, there was that ironic romance, the Love Square whose dynamics underpinned the plots of so many of the early season episodes. Marinette loved the boy she thought she knew, and Chat Noir loved the heroine who he fought beside: neither necessarily saw the full value the other had to offer because they were blinded by the idealised image they had of the other's alter-ego.

Thus the reveal and teasing thereof was an enticing prospect: these two closest of friends and allies could finally merge their lives together without professional boundaries. Adrien could get to know the clumsy girl who wasn't a perfect heroine and Marinette would finally be able to actually know who Adrien was, as opposed to being infatuated with his model image.

A true basis for a true relationship.

And something they could never have so long as their mission continued. For until then, Ladybug and Chat Noir could only be partners and friends, but their responsibilities would always have a barrier between them.

What a shame how this premise has been so utterly devalued.

-

There are three aspects to consider here:

1: Romance

2: True understanding/personal development

3: Exclusivity/Trust

-

Romance

The first is the simplest and quickest to cover.

The nature of the Love Square was an ironic circle of attraction, Marinette loved Adrien, but Adrien loved Ladybug- so they were in effect rejecting each other to chase after one another. The only seeming solution was for the identities to be revealed and thus allow the two to actually bond fully and resolve the entire mess by getting together knowing full well that their attraction was reciprocated.

That was not what happened.

Instead, the show decided that Adrichat would finally move on from Ladybug and onto Marinette. And after a bit of back and forth, the Love Square was resolved by having the two unknowingly date their co-workers while Ladynoir cooled to platonic.

This was certainly a choice.

It also rendered any reveal entirely moot in regards to romance. Adrienette is canon, what does them finding out they're co-workers achieve?

-

True understanding/personal development

The core of the Love Square was that neither Marinette or Adrien could see the other's alter-egos within them. Or at least, Marinette outright found it laughable that Chat Noir could be Adrien.

Adrien meanwhile outright called Marinette the "everyday Ladybug" and was unsurprised to put the pieces together himself in Chat Blanc.

But the point of the matter is: in theory the secret identities are barriers to a full bond between the two (alleged) protagonists. That by overcoming them, they could fully "be themselves" with another person.

A Marinette with full confidence and self-assurance, but who also didn't need to be the heroine and could be sad and share her burdens. An Adrien who was allowed to be expressive, silly or imperfect himself without being reprimanded.

This is not what happened.

At least not for Adrien.

Marinette has achieved that goal, with Alya. She has a friend who cares for her with whom she can be completely honest with and who she can share her emotional burdens. Chat Noir meanwhile has steadily learnt to restrain himself as Chat Noir and if anything, grown more compliant and less self-deterministic as Adrien.

Moreover the two have gone from partners, to superior and subordinate. A strict hierarchy where all power, information and authority exists in the hands of one person, and the other person has none whatsoever beyond leaving the ring behind. And it has to be said: Ladybug does not have some special fondness or trust in Chat Noir that would enhance their relationship as Marinette and Adrien.

Nor is there any exceptional trust that Marinette has in Adrien that would enhance their relationship as Ladybug and Chat Noir, indeed the opposite might be true, given just how much she is hiding from him already despite it being critical to his very existence (eg: the whole Sentimonster business). Most likely any reveal between the two at this point would just introduce that power dynamic and secrecy into their personal lives, and likely extinguish what independence Adrichat still possesses.

Because all the reveal would do now is give Marinette even more leverage over Adrien as his superior. Marinette would continue to hide her full self from Adrien, and Adrien having already learnt to ignore and suppress his own feelings for Ladybug's sake would do so constantly for Marinette (if he didn't already, I see precious little of Chat Noir in the Adrien of S5 compared to S1).

-

Exclusivity/Trust

The third is the most extensive to cover, the most important secret either Adrichat or Maribug have are their identities. Thus either letting another know it willingly is (supposedly) the highest sign of trust. The less people who know that secret, the more valuable the act of the reveal is as it creates an incredible vulnerability that did not exist before and proves that the revealer trusts the revealee more than almost anyone else.

It was seemingly inevitable that if Marinette were to willingly reveal to anyone, she'd first choose Chat Noir. He was the one who she supposedly had that unique bond with, and vice versa. It was even a fandom staple back if you search back far enough.

Now of course, that staple is more dated than The Dab.

Marinette's identity now seemingly free space for anyone but Chat Noir. She first willingly spilled the beans to Alya, despite Alya having been Akumatised multiple times before over what are relatively minor affairs (I sure hope she doesn't get caught canoodling with Nino again!) and her being a known target for Shadowmoth thanks to her own identity being known to him. From there on, through either her own choice, accident or observation Ladybug's identity has spread to at least half a dozen other people including Gabriel Agreste and possibly Lila.

But not Chat Noir.

This is important, because that bar of trust and exclusivity has been continuously lowered, to the point where Marinette seemingly has no problem with Felix "Genocide" Fathom being the in the club of people who know her on both sides of the mask- even if he and Kagami have no business doing so. But her supposed partner? He's not even considered.

There are some arguments as to why... but they don't stand up scrutiny:

"It's because of Chat Blanc! Marinette is traumatised over Chat Noir knowing her name!"

That would make sense, alas: it's also fandom staple. Not part of canon itself.

References to Chat Blanc are few and far between, and Maribug has had precisely one sign of any possible trauma from the event and it was as part of a nightmare induced by revealing her identity to Alya. There's nothing in the show that demonstrates that she has any lasting harm from Chat Blanc, or that it's the cause of her actions.

"Chat has the Black Cat Miraculous, they can't know each other's identity because their Miraculous have to stay safe!"

This would be reasonable.

Up until the moment Marinette spilled the beans to Alya. At that point her security had been breached so severely that there is no longer any value in maintaining her secret from Chat Noir. You cannot say the multi-time Akuma victim who Hawkmoth knows was a Miraculous wielder is a better secret-keeper than Chat Noir, even if she broke from Akumatization from a few hours ago: she also got Akumatized a few hours ago.

The only valid part of this argument is that Chat Noir maintaining his secret to Marinette would still be required.

"Chat Noir gets mind controlled every Tuesday, his mind will be an open book!"

No. No it will not.

It's true that Chat Noir is mind-control themed. However- unless I've missed an incident- for all those many times he's been brought under someone else's power he's never given up his Miraculous or identity barring direct use of his Amok. Unless Ladybug has somehow discovered Adrichat's identity, there's no reason to expect that he'll spill the beans- and certainly no more than Alya.

Then there's the final nail in the coffin:

As of "Ephemeral": we know perfectly well that if Marinette knows Chat Noir is Adrien, she'll quickly decide to throw caution to the wind anyway. So by evidence alone, it's not a matter of security or trauma, it's a matter of favoritism.

By evidence: Chat Noir is not one of those favourites. Forget the actualization of a special bond, he's less trustworthy than Felix.

-

What is the value of the reveal at this point?

Adrien and Marinette are together. The barriers are gone, but there's no special exclusivity to this shared experience anymore: there's an entire team of others after all and Rena's the one Ladybug shares her feelings and secrets with while Chat Noir barely knows anything. The "Ladynoir partnership" has cooled to a platonic working relationship where all the trust and authority goes one way, so there's not exactly some great romantic addition to be made to the Adrienette relationship.

Exactly what difference does it make to their relationship if they know each other's identity? What would actually change beyond them not having to make awkward excuses about where they're hiding for any given Akuma battle?

Because unless there's going to be some kind of Ladynoir conflict in the next season to provide a new, negative potential impact to the reveal:

The once brimming potential of The Reveal has been completely wasted.

[imultimouse]

I never come on here, but I wanted to discuss something since I've seen a couple of salt posts discussing Adrien's "sudden" shift of feelings towards Marinette in season 5, and I don't think some of you are understanding the whole lovesquare arc. Adrien has ALWAYS loved Marinette, ever since the umbrella scene. His feelings gradually grew more and more, but since he had already taken interest in Ladybug, he suppressed those feelings. This was the whole point of the "just a friend" phase. It was DENIAL, not genuine disinterest. If you go back and rewatch the show from the beginning, you'd notice that Adrien unconsciously behaves in a way that makes his crush on Marinette obvious. Ex:

Feeling uncomfortable kissing Chloé in season 1, but feeling perfectly comfortable with Marinette.

The constant heart eyes we got throughout the show.

He carries her lucky charm with him all the time, and he even made a gift especially for her

He called her his "everyday Ladybug", which we all know how much that means coming from him.

Effortlessly dancing romantically with her, TWICE.

Etc, etc. Keeping all that in mind, what happened in Puppeteer 2 isn't when he started DEVELOPING feelings, it's when he started REALIZING those feelings. He said it himself, the way he reacted to her going ahead and kissing him shocked him. Not to mention that in Chat Blanc, he straight up told her in his confession that he had always felt this way, he just didn't understand what he felt.

All their interactions thus far had Marinette somehow friendzone their encounters, so Adrien never had the chance to think about his own feelings, except in Weredad, but he was too preoccupied with his intense feelings for Ladybug to notice. And it's because of that, that after Marinette kissed him, he started noticing the similarities between her and Ladybug, causing his feelings to grow even further.

"You remind me of the girl I love."

Then, he started paying more attention to her, and noticed how she always cheers him up and makes him laugh, and is always there for him when he needs her.

Finally, we reach the season 4 finale, and he realizes that Marinette truly understands him for who he is, not the image he kept up, and it's THEN that he fully realizes there is something there, but he is too confused to know for sure, which is directly supported by his confession in Chat Blanc.

That is when Determination comes into play, and Adrien finally realizes what the butterflies in his stomach meant this entire time. This is also why that every time he discovers Marinette is Ladybug, he is instantly relieved and overwhelmed with joy, because that makes the two people he loves the most one person, and there is no more dilemma in his heart.

So this is it, a summary of Adrien's development of his feelings towards Marinette, which also explains why it's so sincere from his end. It's not sudden for sure. Yeah, it could have been written a lot better, but what do we expect from MLB writers anyway? If you've made it this far, thank you for reading, and let me know what you think.

[matt0044]

In retrospect, it's pretty clear why Adrien wasn't there to learn Monarch was his father in The Final Day.

Namely because "Chat Blanc" and "Ephemeral" each explained why.

His intense emotions over seeing his mother and learning his father became a villain in order to save her would be too good of an opportunity to akumatize him against Ladybug.

Thus Adrien benching himself is essentially the reason why Marinette was able to knock the Moth Miraculous off Gabriel and talk him down.

However... this only means that there's an extra layer of despair painted upon what would've been Adrien's angst over his father's dark secret. Clearly, his father's "sacrifice" is what keeps him going in believing his final moments were heroic.

So what happens when Adrien learns that not only was his father trying to bring back Emilie and became a villain to do so but that he also went out after causing Operation: Alliance to start with. No way to confront his father about this reveal and even Nathalie would be hard pressed for a straight answer.

Hell, I can imagine him crossing the line and forcing Plagg to spill the beans at his direct command. He and Marinette have been good in never, if ever, enforcing rules upon Tikki or Plagg so... woo.

And with Lila likely possessing this information be it from what Hoaxer got out of Nathalie or Nooroo, something tells me that we're in for something far, FAR worse than Chat Blanc if that's even feasibly possible. Perhaps only that the Lucky Charm can't easily undo.

Aaaaaaaaaand that's why there was more of a benefit to keep Adrien to the side for Season 5's finale. If you can't feel the storm that's slowly brewing, better get an umbrella now.

[jennagrinsoverml]

Any good fics featuring Marinette or Adrien akumatized?

There sure are! (And wow did I ever get a lot of asks for this!) Now, to be clear, I won't be reccing any Chat Blanc fics, since that's a category in and of itself (and as a result this list favours akumanette). But let's have some akumanette and akumadrien!

Confessions by @spuk-goodness

S04 Alternative beginning where Marinette shares her biggest secret with her partner and where 'We are a team' means 'I love you'.

Or the one where Hawk Moth notices that Marinette is a bit overwhelmed and decides to take advantage. A new akuma appears in Paris the very next day and Chat Noir has to fight by himself. Where could his Lady possibly be?

One-shot. Akumanette. This is a different take on akumanette than we usually see, which I loved. I absolutely think it makes sense for an akuma to target Marinette with how overwhelmed she is, especially in early season 4, and I love the way that it was handled here.

when you weren’t mine to lose by @bugsandchatons

Change is a scary thing, especially when it feels like nothing has stayed the same.

It’s been a year since Marinette became the Guardian of the Miracle Box - a year of struggling beneath a burden she never asked for, a weight that has her leaning on her partner more and more as the hours fly by, of letting him come to her, too, when he needs a soft place to land. A year of falling for the boy who takes on the world by her side with a smile made of sunlight, and fighting the growing urge to tell him what he means to her.

After all, they’ll have time enough for that when Paris is safe.

But when the unthinkable happens, Marinette learns the tragedy of loving someone quietly, and the lines she’ll cross to save him.

Multi-chapter. Akumanette (Akuma!Ladybug, really). This is what happens when Ladybug loses Chat Noir. It hurts in all the best ways and the writing is absolutely gorgeous and somehow we still get a happy ending!

Lovelace by @p-artsypants

Convinced that he's unlovable, Adrien is quickly thrown for a loop when Marinette confesses her love for him out of the blue. An akumatization and reveal later, he changes his mind about being unlovable.

One-shot. Akumadrien. I love when Gabriel is a horrible bastard and that results in Adrien being akumatized, and this fic is aboslutely perfect for that! It's also an original take on akumadrien, which I love.

Echoes of You by @kittinoir

In the day time, she’s Marinette - a normal girl, with a normal life. A normal girl, with a normal life. A normal girl, with…

Multi-chapter. Akumanette. Marinette gives up the miracle box and her memories, and Chat is frantic trying to figure out what happened to his Lady. (And the love square content, including a lot of Marichat, is fantastic!) Meanwhile, Chloe is trying to do better following the events of Miracle Queen.

A Different Approach by ShawnaCanon

Adrien finds out Ladybug's true identity. Since Cat Noir has been thoroughly friend-zoned, he figures maybe he can woo her as Adrien. But that means doing it without his mask. And that's scarier than any supervillain Hawk Moth could throw at him.

Multi-chapter. Akumadrien. It takes a while to get to the akumadrien, but I really enjoyed the journey. This poor boy is so romantically inept, but ultimately that's not what leads to his akumatization. This is a different take than we usually see and it's very much Adrien that is akumatized, rather than Chat (or any kind of Chat Blanc variation).

A Sound of Thunder by Tempomental

“Bye-bye, little… actually, that’s your line, isn’t it? Sorry.”

Ladybug stared at the man in front of her. Tall. Shaggy, but not unkempt blond hair. Oh yeah, and he was wearing a Ladybug costume.

“Who - who are you?”

“Oh, right, sorry.” He drew himself up to his full height and proudly announced, “My name is Adrien Agreste, and I’ve come from the future to rescue you!”

Multi-chapter. Akumadrien. In our time, Adrien and Marinette use their traditional miraculous. However, Adrien also comes back from the future to help out with the ladybug miraculous. It’s extremely intense and well written and every time I thought I had spotted a problem in the writing, it turned out to be a plot element but holy shit I thought I was going to die with how intense this is. If you like plot, you will absolutely LOVE this fic.

some truths are as loyal (as the shadows we lead) by @carpisuns

When Marinette wins a design contest hosted by Gabriel Agreste, it seems like a dream come true. Until everything goes wrong. (A Marichat akumanette fic)

Multi-chapter. Akumanette. This was actually the first akumanette fic I ever read and it gave me a bit of a taste for it! @carpisuns is an amazing writer, and I always enjoy everything she gifts us. This is no exception! My favourite part of this was seeing just how much it took to break Marinette, as well as Gabriel being The Worst.

too little, too late. by @madibug

“Ladybug.” Chat’s voice cuts in like molten steel. It’s a tone that Ladybug hasn’t heard him use with her before and so it surprises her into turning to him and - It feels like smacking into a wall. Chat is no more than a foot away from her but when their eyes meet, it hits her just how much distance has grown between them. Her heart hiccups out of rhythm, as hearts often do when something feels… wrong.

Multi-chapter. Akumanette. I really enjoyed this one, especially all of the different plans and how the crew adapted. This is @madibug's answer to the Ladybug version of Chat Blanc, and it's really creepy and interesting!

fleeting. by @agnes-writes

e·phem·er·al (/əˈfem(ə)rəl/), adj. - lasting for a very short time. But no matter how fleeting Ephemeral's powers may make things, the damage has already been done. And Ladybug pays the price. OR: A drabble based on what I want to happen in Episode 100: Ephemeral.

One-shot. Akumadrien. I really enjoyed this alternate imagining of Ephmeral! It was written before the episode aired, so it's not entirely consistent, but it's still really interesting and well done.

And, for a bit of a self-rec, The Closest Thing to Love features akumanette, if you're interested in fake dating and PRPR 😊

[talulagrimm]

Hey isn’t it soooooo weird that chat blanc never touched any of the dead people left behind in his cataclysm. It’s sooo weirdddd how when ladybug touched past ladybug she disintegrated immediately.

I mean you’d think chat blanc would’ve touched her at least once right? In the many months he was alone.

I mean not even one time!?

Unless he had a reason not too..?

Unless he knew what would happen..?

Man that’d be craaaaaazy

Sooooo crazyyyy

[unluckycryptid]

So two new updates regarding the Rise of Red!Miraculous Ladybug AU fic

-

If you haven't seen it yet, I posted Ch 5 of The Wonderous Adventures of Ladybug and Chat Noire! Check it out below.

Summary:

“My Lady… please,” Chat Noire begged. The heroine in front of her stopped walking but stayed facing forward, her face obscured from Chat Noire’s line of sight. But from where she stood, she could see as Ladybug shook her head, her partner’s hands clenching and unclenching at her sides. “Chat Noire, I- I can’t,” said Ladybug, her voice cracking ever so slightly that Chat Noire would have missed it if it weren’t for her hearing. Before Chat Noire could push any further, Ladybug grabbed her yoyo and swung off, her message clear: don’t follow me.

I also wrote a companion piece to the chapter and posted it separately as a two-shot! Check it:

Summary:

Companion piece to Ch 5 of The Miraculous Adventures of Ladybug and Chat Noire explaining what happened to Red in her encounter with Chat Blanc, and how it all came to be. Ch 1 - The Encounter (Version 2.0) Ch 2 - The Incident

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Check out my Chapter Notes for all three chapters below!

Warning: Spoilers

Author's Note Before I put up the Deleted Scenes:

So, I originally posted everything on pretty late on Oct 31st in order to get it all in for Whumptober. I woke up the next morning and read it before I went to work and then decided that I hated it in a way that the original ending was cornering me and would have had me deviate from my overall plan for the main story. I decided, alright, I'm just going to delete the whole two-shot and spend some time fixing it to better align with to the main story's future and motivations.

For those of you wondering, what could I possibly have written to cause me to delete the first version? -> I had Red kill off Chat Blanc of the alternate timeline.

It was great for Whumptober, but would require dozen more chapters of main timeline!Red overcoming that trauma which... I only have 12-13 chapters planned for this story and we're already on Ch 5. Plus, I wanna do a reveal and post-reveal stuff within those 12-13 chapters so... yeah I'm already running out of time with that.

But overall, the whole writing process was pretty rough, ngl. In context, I wrote three chapters in the time it would take me to write one chapter, and each of the three chapters were fairly lengthy for me. And I had to make sure all 3 chapters had to intertwine together.

I always knew I was going to have the Aftermath chapter in the main story. As for the Encounter and Incident chapters, it was originally going to be all one chapter, but it got wayyyy too long for my taste so I ended up splitting it into two separate chapters and then posting it as a two-shot.

I also had to make sure that each of the chapters' motivations flowed into each other. It was kind of difficult since I wrote Aftermath first, so I had to backtrack and figure out what scenario would those memories come into play during the Encounter chapter. Incident also had a bunch of problems considering how the first draft of it that I wrote, while good, didn't follow the motivation for either Aftermath or Encounter, so I had to keep rewriting it until it all worked.

And like I said, I wrote the last scenes of Encounter the day I posted it and then I posted it... bruh never doing that again. I definitely should have sat on it a little longer but rewriting it with a bit more time makes me more confident in it as a chapter now.

I'll post the deleted scenes across the three chapters below. Most of them are going to come from The Chat Blanc Incident. I'll post the Version 1.0 on a separate post since this will get too long.

Read The Encounter Version 1.0 Here

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Deleted Scene 1 - The Encounter - First Meeting

“Chat Noire, what happened here? What happened to you?” Red asked. 

The girl in white ignored her question in favor of stepping into Red’s personal space, intrigue in her gaze. Before Red could step back and ask about the sudden proximity, the other girl reached out and cupped a hand around Red’s cheek. Red watched as the white clawed hand softly grazed her cheek, the other girl pulling her hand back as soon as it made contact, a look of wonder and disbelief dawning on the girl’s face. 

“So you’re not just one of my ghosts haunting me,” the girl in white chuckled in what sounded like relief. 

Red only looked at her behavior in bewilderment before the girl stopped and switched her tone to an interrogatory one, “You’re not supposed to be here. How are you here?”

Red hesitated. Despite the fact that her partner was someone she would trust with her life, just one look in the other girl’s eyes told Red that she shouldn’t say anything about Bunnyx and his portals in time. 

“It doesn’t matter how I’m here. I just need to know what happened, Chat Noire, both to you and to Auradon,” said Red, “I want to help.”

The girl narrowed her eyes at the red and black superhero. “You’re not My Lady, are you,” she stated, “Or else you would remember what happened.” The bitterness in the girl’s tone sent chills down Red’s spine. 

“Chat Noire…”

“Please, it’s Chat Blanc now,” the girl in white—Chat Blanc—corrected.

-

Deleted Scene 2 - The Incident - First Betrayal

“Red, how could you?” the heartbroken voice of Chloe asked, tears streaming down her cheeks as a pair of Card soldiers held her down on her knees. 

“No, Chloe don’t listen to her. Please believe me, I didn’t know anything,” Red begged, dropping down to her own knees in front of the blue haired princess. She reached out to cradle her girlfriend’s face, but the girl flinched as far away as she could given her restrictions from Red’s touch.

“Oh, come now, daughter, you needn’t keep acting. Your plan worked as you said it would. Though it was a bit convoluted if you asked me,” said Queen Reina Hearts of Wonderland as she inspected her nails with disinterest from her throne on the stage. 

All around them, the aftermath of chaos remained. Family Day had come around and Red’s mom had made an unexpected appearance. Although Red had been taken aback by her mother’s unannounced presence, she was even less prepared for the moment her mother had interrupted the Principal’s Family Day Speech by tossing a deck of magical cards in their air, infecting the unfortunate few that were touched by them, some being the Card soldiers they had previously faced, thus revealing her identity as the Card Queen. 

Before Red or Chloe could even think about transforming into their alter egos, the Card soldiers had grabbed Chloe’s mother and held her hostage, forcing the two heroes to surrender. Once it was clear that neither Red nor Chloe would fight back, the Card soldiers surrounded the blue haired princess along with the rest of the civilians not infected by the cards of the Card Queen. However, they left Red un-surrounded as the Queen of Wonderland marched up to the stage, declaring loudly at how proud she was of her daughter. 

“What plan?” Chloe demanded in a low growl, betrayal laced her in gaze. 

Before Red could answer, Reina spoke for her, “The one to acquire your miraculous, of course.” She said as if it were an obvious fact. 

“No! Chloe-”

“And imagine to my surprise when she suggested that we could also get vengeance on dear Cindy over here at the same time,” continued the Queen of Wonderland as though Red had never spoken. 

“Reina, you let my daughter go right now. Your quarrel is with me,” Chloe’s mom—Queen Cindy—urged from her spot, also in the same position as Chloe though she had been taken off to the side of the stage. 

Reina glared in her direction and waved a hand. At the motion, the General Jack of Diamonds, who had been holding Cindy down, struck her in the face. In response, Chloe screamed and thrashed uselessly under the grip of the Card soldiers holding her down. Red attempted to run to Chloe’s mom’s aid, but was stopped by the Jabberwocky landing in front of her.

The Queen of Wonderland rolled her eyes and continued addressing Chloe, “She revealed her identity to me as soon as she got her miraculous, telling me that she had a plan to make me proud. A plan that would allow Wonderland to take control over all of Auradon.”

“That’s not true!” Red yelled desperately. She was abruptly cut off by the feeling of something covering her mouth and pinning her arms down to her sides, but when she attempted to turn to see her assailant, her eyes met empty air. Nonetheless, the force persisted and she could feel breathing behind her. Red’s eyes widened. It was the Cheshire Cat. She realized in horror that to everyone else, it looked like she was just idly standing by, watching the whole thing.

“I will admit, it took me by surprise that she was admitting to being the pesky, newly debuted ladybug hero that had foiled my plan as the Card Queen, but after I revealed such the fact, she asked me to keep playing the role for her plan to work,” the Queen of Hearts gloated falsely, “I agreed, of course. I trust my daughter completely. She had finally told me it was time to make our move once she revealed that she finally had your complete trust, going as far as to pursuing a relationship with you to do so.”

Red tried her best to fight the grip of the Cheshire Cat on her but it was no use. Her mother decided at that moment to descend from the stage and stand directly in front of a helpless Chloe who had no other choice but to look at her.

The Queen sneered as she crouched in front of the blue haired princess, “Did you really believe that my daughter could ever love someone like you? The daughter of the commoner queen? The spare heir? The mere sidekick of your little duo?” 

The Queen reached out and grabbed Chloe’s chin, satisfied at the tears streaming down the girl’s cheek. 

“You and your filthy mother will get what you deserve, thinking you had a chance to stand with the rest of us,” she sneered before her expression changed to a one of consideration, “Though perhaps not all is lost with you. Perhaps you can be deserving of my daughter’s love after all.”

“What do you want from me?” Chloe spat. 

Reina grinned wickedly, “Call upon your transformation and let me make you one of my Card soldiers,” before Chloe could voice a rejection, the Queen turned her head towards the direction of her mom’s captivity, “or else.”

She released her hold on Chloe’s face and stepped back, waiting for the girl’s next move. Naturally, Chloe’s eyes wandered to Red’s looking for any sort of guidance. Red tried her best to shake her head no but the Cheshire Cat puppeted her head to make it look like she nodded in approval instead.

Without any more options, Chloe gave in.

“Plagg, transform me.”

The transformation washed over the blue haired girl in front of the whole school to see. Chat Noire soon found that the hold of the Card soldiers had been released and that she was free to stand up. She did so slowly, keeping her gaze fixed on the Queen of Wonderland who only smirked as she took out a card from her deck.

Red could only watch in horror as her mother approached her girlfriend and placed the magical card on the silver bell that hung around the girl’s neck. The bell blackened and the black cat heroine was swallowed up by the card’s magic. A second later, the magic dissipated and Red’s stomach dropped.

Kneeling on the ground to her mother was her girlfriend dressed in all white.

“Rise, Chat Blanc,” her mother commanded and the girl stood up immediately. Red’s blood ran cold. There was no trace of her partner—her girlfriend—in there. Her mother continued, “I have given you the power of infinite destruction, and with it you will lay waste to this despicable world… starting with her.”

Reina pointed a finger in the direction of Chloe’s mom. 

No. She couldn’t let her do this. She couldn’t let Chloe kill her own mom. Red struggled against the Cheshire Card Card with all she had, managing to free the hand covering her mouth, but that was enough.

“Tikki! Transform me.”

As soon as she felt the transformation wash over her, she used her superstrength to break free from the Card’s clutches and fight her way over to Chloe’s mom. She dodged, weaved, and kicked the Cards holding down Chloe’s mom to her best ability, but even with her super abilities, she was quickly overwhelmed by the number of Card soldiers her own mother had on hand. 

Slowly, Chat Blanc made her way in front of her mother, regarding the woman as though she were a mere speck of dust. Chat Blanc raised her hand and wordlessly called upon a cataclysm, the power manifesting in a white color just like its holder.

“Please, Chloe don’t do this!” Red cried out from under the dozens of Card soldiers holding her down, “Please, you can fight this!”

“Hush now, daughter, she can’t fight this.”

-

Deleted Scene 3 - The Incident - Chat Blanc's fury

The girl’s cold gaze turned on her now, “You know, Red. You were right. My death would be worthless. But everyone else’s…”

“Don’t do this, Chloe,” Red begged as she started backing away in fear, “I-I’ll stop you.”

Chat Blanc walked toward her with her hand raised above her head. She summoned another cataclysm and to Red’s horror, it kept growing and growing. ‘Infinite destruction’, her mother had said. There was no fighting this, even as Ladybug. 

Chat Blanc seemed to know this, too. 

“I’d like to see you try, Princess.” 

And then the world went white.

[arlakos]

Why Time Travel in Miraculous is a huge mess.

There are a lot of things in this show that give me a headache. Plot Holes, Retcons, EVERYTHING involving the Sentimonster Adrien theory that is now apparently true. But nothing gets my blood boiling more than time travel in this show, especially in regards to Chat Blanc and Evolution.

Let me just start out by saying that I think time travel in this show should have never existed to begin with. Not only is the rabbit miraculous a poor excuse for a animal representing time (since alternate dimensions would be a more fitting power given that the miraculous is an Alice in Wonderland reference and the rabbit brings Alice to an alternate world in the story), but having the power to travel to time, while being logically possible, is also a gamebreaking power that leaves more questions than answers.

But the timetravel in Chat Blanc is sooooo bad on many levels. Even Timebreaker, which is a convoluted episode to begin with, at least creates the idea of a stable timeloop with how Alix becomes the rabbit heroine, so nothing that happens breaks any canon to begin with.

But lets take a look at Chat Blanc.

According to canon, Marinette delivers her to gift to Adrien as Ladybug, leading to Adrien learning Ladybug's identity and setting off the many events that lead to Chat Blanc, which also involves the destruction of Paris. This is implied to be the official outcome of Miraculous without any outside interference brought on by time travel.

HOWEVER, Bunnyx herself still somehow exists in the future despite said future not existing, and gets Ladybug to both defeat Chat Blanc and undo the events of the bad future.

Despite Bunnyx having to travel through time however, it is heavily implied that Bunnyx and the Marinette which had to fight Chat Blanc are still part of the same timeline, instead of Marinette and her world being an alternate timeline caused by Bunnyx's interference.

However, neither Bunnyx nor Chat Blanc can coincide with one another due to time rules. If Bunnyx exists, then that means Chat Blanc couldn't have happened as future Alix would have to obtain the rabbit miraculous to begin with. If Chat Blanc was meant to be the canonical outcome to Miraculous (before it was changed), then Bunnyx shouldn't have existed period, meaning the events of Timetagger shouldnt have happened either.

Essentially, its a giant paradox.

However, I think it also gets even worse in Evolution. Aside from the fact that Hawkmoth should have honestly had the heroes defeated dead to rights upon getting the rabbit miraculous, the amount of time travel needed to undo the situation in which Gabriel gets the rabbit miraculous is overtly complex and really just un-needed. It could have easily just been avoided by having Marinette keep the Rabbit Miraculous hidden in a different location to the miracle box, so that nobody could access it from her yoyo (which would be ENTIRELY POSSIBLE given that Marinette made the BATMAN LEVEL CONTINGENCY PLAN IN THE DESTRUCTION EPISODE, yet CAN'T PUT A PASSWORD ON HER YOYO)

With all this explained, I hope anyone who reads this will understand why Time Travel in Miraculous is a giant mess. Aside from time travel only being around due to being a novelty, its inclusion causes many messed in the episodes it appears in, while other episodes could have done well without it.