actually-factually-anonymous

[actually-factually-anonymous]

So it's been a while since I played, so I checked the wiki. Much to my surprise it states that indeed Frisk somehow could get beyond the barrier in neutral endings, and that the sunlit patch of grass is indeed outside of the kingdom.

Which is supposed to be impossible, so I suppose in my memory I assumed that it was just another part of the kingdom. But I stand corrected.

It also says that in neutral endings the six other human souls are lost, so if this is the case: then the argument for genocide is far weaker (thankfully).

Not gone though.

Given that Frisk would be a child trying to get entrances on a dangerous mountain sealed off, I suspect that again this could very much be delaying action. As Toriel pointed out, all it would take is a single human soul for any monster to be able to cross the barrier to get more, and the chances that another human will never fall into the underground again seems low.

Still, it's a fair sight more hopeful than the cold logic I calculated above.

i wonder if the first monster absorbing a human soul incident or maybe not the first, just the one that would be the catalyst for the human monster war later on, was not like Asriel + Chara (pontentially dangerous but mostly harmless) but somewhere closer to Omega Flowey in appearance, personality, and threat level?

still would not justify waging war against all monster kind and sealing them away, but would probably be more understandable? i think?

(sorry if this doesn't make sense)

Considering that it takes less than 10 souls for a Monster to become a god, I'd say that humanity had every right to be afraid. Do you know how easy it is to kill 10 people, especially when you have magic bullets?

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Maybe Fu just wanted the biggest burden off his shoulders! It's been a while since we bullied Fu on this blog so let's go with that!

I don't think people give Fu (or the Order in general) anywhere near the amount of grief they deserve, so I for one am all for this explanation!

This is the moron whose best idea of dealing with his old Sentimonster coming back for him was not only disarming the two people under his 'care' who'd already proven themselves capable of handling all kinds of Sentimonsters and Akumas more dangerous than Feast ever was, but also trying to escape by pedalling out of Paris when he had The Horse Miraculous in the box strapped to him.

Which could be forgiven as a one off mistake of a man overwhelmed by fear, until you remember his track record in the series and realize its par the course for him. Quite seriously, I think the only two things he does competently in the series is translate the Grimoire, and make potions: everything else is questionable at best.

Heck, even the very suffering caused by the Butterfly and Peacock villains is directly on his shoulders because he never went back and solved the problem he caused. Sure, Fu the scared initiate child had an excuse. I would even buy Fu the traumatized teenager trying to eke out a living wherever he could not being able to deal with it

But what about the 150 years after he spent as an adult with nearly an entire Miracle Box in his hands? I've given Marinette all kinds of roasting for not utilizing the box's powers to try and deal with Shadowmoth, Fu had 150x at least more time than she ever had with it so I can't exactly let him off the hook there.

That's easily more than enough time with those resources to find an easy solution to his sentimonster and the lost Miraculous, and bring back the order with the Miracle Cure. But he failed, just like he did with just about everything in his life that we see.

Sure, in these kinds of stories where child heroes take the lead, the mentor figures or the ancient heroic orders that once protected the world have to be sidelined somehow. Otherwise the world they live in wouldn't be one ripe for adventure. But that's the usually done by providing a good reason to stop them from solving the problems the hero is supposed to. Like having them restrained in some way, or in the case of heroic organizations: being destroyed by the main villain as the inciting incident of the plot to explain why they can't protect the world, rather than having them just be unfathomably incompetent.

Obi-wan never had a device that would kill Palpatine and restore the republic, and any Jedi he might have called on to aid him and Luke were systematically destroyed. Zordon chose 'teenagers with attitude' for his heroes, but he at least he was trapped in a time warp which restrained him from getting out and fighting, but still served as the mission control and set up countless resources for the rangers to use in their war.

Fu fumbles everything that he touches, and Su-han's even less useful than him even when he's not watching Cat videos. The Order was destroyed because they were too stupid to put a lock on the Miracle box or to revise their test to something less insane. Then it is restored with whatever other miracle boxes they have in their possession.... to do nothing when the Miracle Box's contents are stolen and the universe is endangered.

They are incredibly incompetent. And I do mean that literally; the scale of their incompetence is beyond credibility.

And this would be fine if Fu's, Su's and the Orders flaws were addressed. Or even if they were a parody of wise mentors and ancient orders. But the show seems to present Fu as a genuine mentor figure, and imply that the Order is remotely competent.

It's quite dissonant to say the least.

Here’s a quick but necessary question: why is the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous even out? I know for the plot but from a logical standpoint it doesn’t really make sense to have both out especially when they’re the main targets of Monarch, and by keeping them out you incentivize him to do more evil against Paris.

In the movie it at least was explained by Tikki and Plagg making the choice rather than Fu, and that together they make each other stronger. In the show, though I got nothing. Sure Ladybug is useful, but the Black Cat is more often that not a liability in the situations and Fu chose them vs having no choice. Honestly, if Ladybug and Chat Noir stopped appearing or at all, then Hawkmoth would have no reason to continue attacking Paris

---

I do actually think that the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous come with the most versatile powers, so that could be it. The ability to create something once per fight and the ability to destroy something once per fight are both powers that can be taken advantage of in a moment’s notice in a way the other powers can't. It's really super risky to have those Miraculous out every time, though, although it did lessen the pressure on Fu, since Hawk Moth didn't make finding the Guardian a priority.

Maybe Fu just wanted the biggest burden off his shoulders! It's been a while since we bullied Fu on this blog so let's go with that!

[actually-factually-anonymous]

You know, I do like Undertale as a whole, but there's always been certain elements like the above that warrants a second look.

The backstory alone for example doesn't make much sense, even if humans had an initial massive advantage, all it would take is one monster killing a weak human like a child (and there are plenty of monsters willing to kill children if push comes to shove, as Undertale itself proves) to become an incredibly powerful being. Not necessarily a god, but just with one soul that singular monster would likely gain massive power that dwarfs anything a tribe of spear-wielding humans could do.

And from there the tides turn instantly. Because that one empowered monster can now kill humans and empower themselves at an exponential rate.

Granted, the fact that humanity won the war at all does imply that indeed, not a single soul was taken in that war (somehow, even though regular monsters can kill Frisk just by 'talking'). But then why would humanity- this dreadful race- just seal the monsters away? Why not just kill them all? Especially given just how dangerous the threat of an empowered monster could be.

There's at the minimum some serious missing pieces here. From an in-universe perspective, the entire story itself would almost certainly be propaganda.

But it gets even worse though.

Because if the claims are true, if all it takes are seven human souls for a monster to become a reality-warping god of any degree... well.

Then suddenly the Genocide Route becomes actually easy to rationalize.

Consider the following:

1: The overwhelming majority of the monsters we meet are either perfectly fine with the prospect of assaulting the human world, or are outright enthused at it. That's what the kingdom's clear collective intentions are at the time Frisk comes to the underground.

2: The only reason the Kingdom has not yet done so is because they only have six human souls. All it takes is one more to complete the set, and if you take the presented details as fact: humanity will be facing an enemy which (even if Asgore might be reluctant) will destroy them with unstoppable power.

3: Any monster can achieve this level of godlike power.

These three factors here place the human/Frisk in a perilous position. Presuming that they have any affection or care for the world above, they're in a trolley problem.

Killing Asgore won't stop another monster from taking his place. In fact, only killing Asgore is probably the worst option, since his replacement likely won't share his hesitation. If anything, this likely means that the six souls will be absorbed by his successor and will easily take the seventh soul needed from the outside world within days, or will likely be overthrown without Asgore's long settled authority and replaced with someone who will.

Simply hiding away with Toriel or in some other secluded space is the next best option, especially if the other souls can be freed somehow. But this is ultimately only a delaying action. Humans are falling into the underground, and whether it's the next human or the next half-dozen who land on that bed of flowers- the required human soul count will be met sooner or later.

In theory if Frisk is somehow able to get out of the Underground despite the barrier still being up, they could warn others away, or have the hole they fell down sealed off. But that requires them to be able to escape the barrier, which is never shown to be something they can do.

So in the end the human/Frisk faces a problem: do they bet that the monsters won't do as they say and attack humanity with godlike power, or do they make sure they can't make good on those intentions?

---

Personally, I'd probably bet on the former. But if the soul that fallen down that hole had been one of reason or logic, it would be easy to understand how they'd come to a dark path in this scenario.

Because in a fit of irony, Undertale- the game about treating monsters as people- has a situation where consciously hunting down each and every one of them just like those countless enemy mobs in any of other game is actually reasonable.

Again- not something I'd consider ethical for obvious reasons. But when more or less the entire Underground is talking about attacking my species with godlike power and any one of them could achieve it with just ONE more soul... the options aren't great.

Pacifist Frisk being able to get a golden ending by refusing the Trolley Problem would be something I'd never imagine as an option.

Kudos to the Soul of Determination for finding a third way.

i wonder if the first monster absorbing a human soul incident or maybe not the first, just the one that would be the catalyst for the human monster war later on, was not like Asriel + Chara (pontentially dangerous but mostly harmless) but somewhere closer to Omega Flowey in appearance, personality, and threat level?

still would not justify waging war against all monster kind and sealing them away, but would probably be more understandable? i think?

(sorry if this doesn't make sense)

Considering that it takes less than 10 souls for a Monster to become a god, I'd say that humanity had every right to be afraid. Do you know how easy it is to kill 10 people, especially when you have magic bullets?

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Why? He's got a dozen little people ready to listen at any one time, including at least two who can literally sense his emotional state.

He's never alone.

An AU inspired by just-an-idiotic-nerd's : https://www.tumblr.com/princess-of-the-corner/788385576256782336 Black Birdwing AU:

Shortly after "Evolution", Gabriel's neurons switch on and he remembers that Felix exists, has the Peacock, and really doesn't like him. He also remembers that he has literally over a dozen Miraculous in his possession now (thank to Felix actually), he knows where Felix sleeps (or can just trace him with some combination of said Miraculous), and has no reason to let Felix keep the Peacock.

So Gabriel just mugs Felix.

Maybe he teleports in, maybe he uses the broken invisibility/venom combo. Perhaps he uses the Rooster to erase Felix and Amelie's memories of incriminating information (because why not?), maybe he takes Felix's Amok as insurance.

Regardless, Gabriel gets the Peacock back and Felix is no longer a player on the board, and out of nostalgia he decides to keep the Peacock as it is rather than shoving Duusu in the Kwami-zoo.

Unfortunately for Gabriel, both he and Nathalie are still dying and for whatever reason in this AU they both cark it well before the Miraculized plan is ready.

So now Adrien is left orphaned, and without an explanation as to why all three people in his house died/disappeared after getting seemingly similar symptoms. So, as just-an-idiotic-nerd proposed he has his home checked for hazardous materials, and ends up finding the Kwami Zoo.

Plus the Butterfly and Peacock Miraculous in a suspicious pile of black ash.

Things do not go well for Adrien as he puts them on to get answers. Nooroo tries to break things gently, but Duusu DGAF and cheerfully loredumps everything- complete with leading him down to the lower basement and flying over to open Emilie's casket.

"... And Miss Emilie died because she overused my Miraculous when she made you!"

Adrien can only stare catatonically.

"Kid, you alright there?" Plagg waves a paw in front of Adrien's face.

Nooroo just sighs and shakes his head.

"Great, you broke my holder."

"Our holder now!" Duusu cheerfully zips around. "He's one of mine after all!"

"Hang on-"

"It would be nice to get to eat for once," Nooroo muses. "And he is named after a butterfly-"

"HEY!"

Adrien just ends up sort of doing whatever the three squabbling spirits want because he got the full impact of everything his parents+Nathalie did+ his cataclysm killing his father at once. Ladybug not only doesn't find out, she doesn't even know why Chat Noir stopped showing up around the time the Akumas stopped because Adrien's more or less a zombie directed by three floating bobble-heads.

The three aren't even using the rings (which you know, would allow a kwami to theoretically control a sentibeing wielder like the wielder could them), Adrien's just on autopilot and the most mature and sensible of the three spirits (Nooroo) keeps getting overruled by the impulsive other two. Eventually a new villain arises, 'Black Birdwing', who routinely Akumatizes the fromageries and florists of Paris into assorted cheese and flower related monsters.

---

Assorted details:

-There's no actual goal here beyond the Kwamis doing what they want. Every 'fight' has the three just eating and playing in the background. The other Kwamis might get involved now and then, but it's mainly these three driving the shenanigans.

-Paris' new villain is just making food and toys for the Kwamis, mainly because he's too mindbroken to say no and this is the first time the Kwamis have gotten a chance at doing whatever they want since... ever since they were bound to the Miraculous really. And they're having a field day.

-Adrien's more or less constantly AFK and the little guys have the wheel. Somehow they're still more of a threat than Shadowmoth.

-Whether or not Ladybug realizes Chat Noir is Black Birdwing is up in the air, but if she doesn't she's probably very confused why Plagg is having fun every other fight.

fucked up get my boy some therapy

[actually-factually-anonymous]

It really is funny, because even if you don't care for Adrien as a person, "Punchingbag Noir" amounting to Ladybug's primary tactic is just objectively a silver bullet in the idea that she's a competent leader.

Chat Noir goes up against Akumas one on one (or worse once Sentimonsters and multiple teams of Akumas are introduced) for at least minutes at a time. Said Akumas are also usually so dangerous that a duo of Ladybug and Chat Noir explicitly cannot beat them together... so she just leaves him to go fight on his own.

This should be a recipe for disaster. Chat Noir as it is already comes within a few seconds of losing his Miraculous multiple times in the show under this brilliant approach, but if Hawkmoth or Mayura were allowed to have a brain they'd have noticed this pattern and just shown up themselves to beat Chat into a pancake once Ladybug leaves for the umpteenth time, and taken Plagg there and then.

The only reason this... choice to repeatedly leave Chat Noir in needless peril didn't lead to Gabriel winning sooner is pure plot armor.

Funniest thing about about Cat Noir being reduced to a meat shield is that someone with a black cat miraculous is the worst meat shield ever, because if their identity got exposed or if akuma got their miraculous the villain would be halfway towards fulfilling their goal.

---

YOU WOULD THINK SO, HUH?! But nooooooo, our master strategist team leader, Miss Greatest Ladybug Ever who’s already the best version of herself will put the literal power of destruction on a silver platter, tossing around the second half of the power to rewrite reality like yesterday’s garbage, and she won’t even consider using the teammate whose power is being impervious to superpowers, or the guy whose power is creating a super strong magical shield. Nah, the guy with the touch of death is far more suited to get whaled on.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Being driven magically insane is definitely an absolutely bonkers escalation.

I see what you did there.

Indeed though, after everything the fandom did to Adrien: it's pretty damn rich for them to whinge about 'salters' or 'harsh punishments'.

But as for story and driving Adrien to a fate worse than death: I'm pretty sure it was primarily their way of both getting the ring off Adrien without making Marinette 'look bad', and ensuring that he was 'punished' (you know, despite the the magic driving him nuts being responsible for his actions).

Which is actually a pretty common thing. Not necessarily the insanity- though Adrien having his personality changed in some way because of the ring isn't rare in these stories- but something happening with Adrien to justifying taking the ring off him without Marinette having to feel guilty. Because the writer inevitably wants Marinette's Miraculous partner to be her romantic partner, so they need an excuse that lets Marinette revoke the ring besides the actual reason of using it like an engagement ring.

And it's ridiculous for multiple reasons, but the biggest one is that it's entirely unnecessarily.

I mean, obviously having it revealed that Adrien's cortex was steadily getting cooked through the show because Fu apparently judged him expendable and Plagg never cared enough to warn him before it was too late is already unnecessary. (And also no way to frame those implications as anything but monstrous).

But the one good thing about the whole Senti!Adrien nonsense is that he's one of the only characters in Miraculous that can actually die for real. Humans, robots, whatever else have you: they can always be brought back with the Miraculous Cure.

But Adrien is one of the three people on the planet who can't be- under the right conditions of course.

Ever since this theory floating around fandom, even before it was 'confirmed' through that play, there's been a ready made out for any writer who wants to have their cake and eat it too with having Damian or whoever else being the Black Cat and Marinette's love interest.

Just have the rings be destroyed. Just kill Adrien. Heck, they could just have Gabriel do it with the Peacock if they wanted. Boom, done, clean slate to replace him at will.

But no, instead we have insanity, character assassination, and horrific implications about True Holders that retroactively turn Adrien's existence as Chat Noir into a tragedy within the context of any story that features said True Holder nonsense.

I just realised that even Adrien salt fics have him end up better off than in cannon.

---

At least in salt fics he gets to know the truth. Sure, the authors only reveal it to him to hurt him with the information, but, at least he isn’t stuck as Marinette’s RealDoll boyfriend catering to her comfort alone anymore.

Like, when people who are self-professed haters of this character treat him better than the people behind his show, you know things are fucked up.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Pretty much.

Marinette even before Season 5 was far from a perfect person, and had done plenty of things that would get another character condemned to the saltmines a dozen times over.

Just off the top of my head.

-Attempting to use Adrien's day of grief to confess to him (easily worse than any of Chat Noir's pushy moments by an order of magnitude)

-Her schemes against Kagami.

-Trying to expel Luka from his own (shared) birthday party.

-Ephemeral.

In terms of habitual awful behavior and spectacular acts of selfishness, Marinette had just about every character beat out except the villains.

But every other character was always held to a higher standard than her. It didn't matter that they were fourteen. It didn't matter that if they meant well or were simply inconsiderate, or if the plot bent their pre-existing traits to accommodate a story.

No, Marinette deserved better.

But now that the rose-coloured glasses are finally started to come off large sections of the fandom; suddenly all those factors matter. Suddenly it's unfair to judge a character like that after years of burning Adrien, Alya, and anyone else who wasn't Marinette at the stake for far lesser 'crimes'.

And the most ridiculous part of all of it is that Marinette is still being handled with kid gloves by the fandom.

If she was being held to the standard the fandom set years ago, there would pages upon pages of new fics about Marinette being having her Miraculous ripped off her ears so Tikki could go to her "True Holder", who had everything Marinette did but was better in every way and whom the story would use to make Marinette look as stupid, pathetic, and morally inferior as it could. Not to mention having every aspect of her feelings and relationship with Adrien condemned as abusive, exploitative, and shallow. Oh and of course that's alongside every aspect of Marinette's life getting irreversibly ruined before she's carted off to face criminal charges for the many activities that she got away with before thanks to her authority and privileges.

No. There's none of that. There's a handful of fics about her having to come clean and face some temporary consequences, maybe one or two where Paris reacts appropriately and turns on her without the narrative portraying the public as ungrateful or otherwise incorrect in doing so.

'Marinette deserves better'.

No. No Marinette deserves at the bare minimum some actual consequences. But if we were to judge her by the standard set by the countless Satlfics, Maribat crossovers, and assorted character bashing fics for half a decade at this point: I can't even fathom how much worse she deserves.

You know all these excuses people make for Marinette could easily apply to the rest of her class when Lila was around.

They were all 14 when she came, they were all manipulated by her, and they all thought they were doing the right thing. Did they get any sympathy? NO! They all got raked over the coals and instead had their lives ruined in those awful Salt Fics.

---

Yeah, like, there’s nothing special about Marinette that makes her somehow exempt from judgement or makes the other characters deserving of harsher scrutiny. But, like, that’s the thing with Maripologists; their idea of what constitutes as “fair” is highly conditional and uneven. Mostly it means “the character I identify with must get all the sympathy and no one else should get any because it’s all about how I, I mean Marinette, feels!”

[actually-factually-anonymous]

I don't know about that one OP, maybe some salt fics do but I'd wgaer most of them make a point of ruining him out of out spite.

Just off the top of my head I can remember two stories:

-A fic where Adrien's entire life and prospects are irrevocably destroyed over high school drama, to the point where suicide would have been easily understandable. The fic could be Karma of Lies before that extra chapter came out to try and patchwork over the implications, but could also be a thousand others.

-And another fic where it was revealed that because Adrien wasn't the "True Holder" of the Black Cat Miraculous, he'd gone irreversibly insane before the story start as a result of Fu using him as Ladybug's partner. The fic ended with Adrien still insane, but also with the story stating that everything he'd done while under the influence of soul-destroying magic was his own damn fault and those were the consequences thereof.

(Akuma Victims were still innocent though.)

And I think we all know that if we were to ever skim the crop of the more popular salt/bashing fics that we'd find plenty of brutal and disgustingly disproportionate fates for Adrien that death would be preferable to.

Canon may have ruined Adrien's character arc and placed him in a disgusting gilded cage of abuse apologia, but if nothing else the studio restrictions stop the show writers from even coming close to what the fandom does to Adrien.

I just realised that even Adrien salt fics have him end up better off than in cannon.

---

At least in salt fics he gets to know the truth. Sure, the authors only reveal it to him to hurt him with the information, but, at least he isn’t stuck as Marinette’s RealDoll boyfriend catering to her comfort alone anymore.

Like, when people who are self-professed haters of this character treat him better than the people behind his show, you know things are fucked up.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

That's the thing about Miraculous: if the show could commit to it, it would actually be amazing as a deconstruction/antithesis to a teen superhero/magical girl show.

What you have proposed here would be a great element of that.

Normally in a magical girl show with where the main boy and girl have a love-square like setup like Usagi and Tuxedo Mask, it's the case where over time the two come together and learn to appreciate both sides of their prospective partner.

But in this setup, you have the opposite where the male character just steadily gets brutally disillusioned. Genuine understanding occurs for sure, but there's no crush progressing to a romance, it's an infatuation that gets dispelled and reveals a deeply flawed person that no one should be in a romance with any time soon.

It would just be one part of many genuine subversions of the Magical Girl and Superhero genres of course. But for Adrien it would probably be the turning point for his character.

I think things in miraculous ladybug would make infinitely more sense if Marinette hated Chat Noir.

---

Marinette resents his shows of skill, treats him as an opponent to outsmart rather than an ally, makes sure he knows less about what's going on than the main villain, never worries whenever he disappears, has no interest in getting to know him as a person, jumps at every chance to replace him that doesn't cast her as the villain and her playful banter sounds like genuine dissing concerningly often. I mean, she certainly treats him like someone she doesn't want around.

New Mari-salt fic concept: Marinette is trying to get Cat Noir to quit because she wants him off the team and just taking his Miraculous for no good reason would make her look like the bad guy. Bonus points if she already has a replacement picked out.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Indeed. I've gone on ad nauseam about the failures of the 'heroic' characters and how any logical assessment makes them complete failures despite whatever 'vibes' they might have. But the villains also fall into that mold, despite whatever impression they might make.

For both sides, once you strip away the bias an emotional impressions the series tries to push upon you: they're both utterly incompetent even within the logical limits of their world and genre.

Felix and Nathalie are the worst of course, the narrative seems determined to present them as the clever and competent ones whereas Chloe and Gabriel are usually the fun-to-beat losers. Like you said: Nathalie achieves nothing as Mayura or as a hero outside of her first powered appearance where she saves Hawkmoth.

Felix is even less impressive though. Leaving aside that his evil plans up til season 5 have more holes than a sponge, and the sheer insane levels of luck that were given to him that allowed him to pull off his plan in "Strikeback" (coupled with idiocy when you realise he could have just mugged Gabriel with ease for the Peacock and Butterfly both and not traded all those Kwamis and Adrien's amok away), or how easily his plan in "Gabriel Agreste" would have failed if Gabriel had made a Shadowmoth-senti instead: what does he actually accomplish?

He arms Gabriel.

That's it. That's Felix's grand contribution to the story plot. All the secrets he holds that could have been used against Gabriel, the tricks he pulled to get Adrien's ring and the Miraculous? Nothing else makes a difference to the bottom line. Even the reveals he makes in his play amount to nothing because Ladybug acts exactly like she would have if she never got said reveal.

All Felix has in the end is the Peacock, a failed genocide attempt, and a relationship with Adrien's ex-girlfriend that has disturbing undertones from both sides.

In regard to that villain stuff let's go with how effective they were.

Okay the contestants were: Gabriel, Tomoe, Lila, Chloe, Felix and Nathalie

This is going to be hard to 'rank', so I'll summarize instead.

Felix's Goal: Free Adrien/All Sentimonsters

-Mostlyfailure, this guy is all over the place. He gave power to the person *in control* of Adrien, he only ever retrieved one of two rings(meaning Adrien was never free) He tried to do a genocide only to have a breakdown at the first minor setback. He fought with the actual heroes fighting Hawkmoth instead of working with them. In the end Adrien was only freed due to Gabriel's own self-destructive choices, and it's a tenuous freedom at best since Felix *NEVER TOLD ADRIEN ANYTHING*

He did manage to swipe and replace Tomoé's ring without her noticing because ????(plot) which is his partial win. Now he's on Ladybug's leash and thoroughly domesticated by Kagami, so, he's done.

Lila's Goal: ????? We have no clue... make Marinette Miserable I guess?

-Extremely effective, despite phoning it in 75% of the time. Every time Marinette runs up against Lila Marinette ends up looking terrible while Lila comes out fine. The only exception was in Revelation where Marinette is saved by Sabrina-ex-Machina. Also, every time Lila 'loses' she dodges any sort of meaningful setbacks because of it.

She loses some points for being pretty much a Deus Ex herself.

Tomoé's Goal: ???? Get Kagami together with Adrien... I guess? She didn't seem to care too much. Mold Kagami into a powerful Heir?

-Mostly success. While Adrien and Kagami did not get together(yet) Tomoé never seemed all that invested in it. It was probably a way to expand the Tsurugi Zaibatsu more than anything else. Kagami is technically 'off the leash' at the moment, but that is only because Tomoé is unaware and Kagami has not done anything to challenge the status quo yet. I would call that a point in Tomoé's favor. If you've trained the dog not to wander, does it matter you aren't holding the leash?

Bonus points for Tomoé barely putting in any effort over 5 seasons.

Nathalie's goal: Resurrect Emilie/Get with Gabriel/Get with Emilie?

-Complete Failure. I'm sorry to all the Nathalie enjoyers out there, but the Nathalie you love exists almost entirely in your head(and she's cool don't get me wrong!) Canon Nathalie is such an inconsistent mess I want to assume her S4+ characterization is influenced heavily by her being on too many painkillers 24/7.

There's also the fact that Nathalie only really *exudes* the aura of competence. When she's sent out she really doesn't live up to it much.

She steals the Peacock when *the guy who would start WW3 for his goal* tells her it is too dangerous. She gives herself super cancer in the process and achieves... nothing. Pretty much every other time out she is equally as ineffective. Her best contribution was as Gabriel's external Hard Drive to upgrade him to Scarlet Moth.

She gets her clock cleaned by Chloé Bourgeois. She stands around idly by while her moth slowly bonks itself against Fu's shield, letting Chloé 1v2 the Fused heroes. (I guess when you think about it she realizes Chloe's the better fighter?) When she goes out as Bisexual Steve Irwin her power is defeated by switching nametags.

She even gets a free 'motivation switch' in S5 and flubs that one too. She comes up a corpse and it's only by the *villain's* choice that she gets a do-over.

Canon Nathalie is all Aura no trousers, sadly.

Gabriel's Goal: Resurrect his wife, and some other vague inconsistent rich person nonsense.

-Loss by forfeit. He got it, he just decided he didn't want what he got.

I'm not going to pretend Gabriel is a super genius here, but this is in terms of effectiveness. He's lucky he was battling teens, and not very motivated ones at that. He did keep throwing things at them, which appraently was too much for Marinette to keep up with, since she never actively looked for him. He also lucked out that by the time he went out in person in S5 for a throwdown, Marinette had developed Villain traits herself. She had him dead to rights in Destruction but she went into Villain-monologue mode and that cost her the game.

In the end Gabriel's various schemes did add up. Marinette got his with the nightmare toxin, which apparently lingered(but only until the S5 finale?) and that sucked all decision making skill out of her. So she ignored a very obvious warning and ran headfirst into combat solo. Locking down his son kept Cat Noir off his back(accidentally!) The Alliance bots were some added Chaos, though they didn't pull through in the end.

The real success was seeing the opportunity and seizing it finally. Marinette gave him an opening the size of a barn door and he ran for it. Yet, once it was all done he passed on it by because... *waves vaguely*. The idea that Emilie MIGHT be upset with him was apparently too much? Like he couldn't wish her to NOT be upset with him? Ah well, whichever.

Yet he did Win on a secondary goal, because in the end he was in complete control of the future of all of reality. This is one of the BIG reasons the S5 finalé falls so flat, Control was Gabriel's *thing* and he never had to give it up.

Chloé's goal: Have people like her. Get Adrien. Be adored. Be Rich.

Mostly Failure: Up until second half of S5 she was at least FUN to watch(The Mission Impossible scene in Gabriel Agreste was glorious!) but she achieved nothing. One might put it down to trying to chase too many goals.

Want Adrien to like her? Well then she can't be too domineering.

Want her mother to like her? Well then she can't be too nice.

Want her class to like her? Well then she has to stop liking the things she likes.

Want Lila to like her? Had to burn all other bridges.

Want to be a hero? Sorry, no options there.

She made a bunch of bad choices, following several sets of unwritten rules and all of them contradictory. In the end though almost all of her wants were about wanting *other* people to want things.

She wanted to be wanted, but you can't control that. So she was defeated by not setting an attainable goal, while her failures alienated everyone around her.

I enjoy her, but as a villain, she was not good. She made a better hero in the few episodes she had than she did a villain in the entire rest of the series.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Just imagine the scene when he finds out.

Adrien finds the Butterfly and peacock, and puts them on to get answers. Nooroo tries to break things gently, but Duusu DGAF and cheerfully loredumps everything- complete with flying over to open Emilie's casket.

"... And Miss Emilie died because she overused my Miraculous when she made you!"

Adrien can only stare catatonically.

"Kid, you alright there?" Plagg waves a paw in front of Adrien's face.

Nooroo just sighs and shakes his head.

"Great, you broke my holder."

"Our holder now!" Duusu cheerfully zips around. "He's one of mine after all!"

"Hang on-"

"It would be nice to get to eat for once," Nooroo muses. "And he is named after a butterfly-"

"HEY!"

Only Adrien just ends up sort of doing whatever the three squabbling spirits want because he got the full impact of everything his parents+Nathalie did+ his cataclysm killing his father at once. Ladybug not only doesn't find out, she doesn't even know why Chat Noir stopped showing up around the time the Akumas stopped because Adrien's more or less a zombie directed by three floating bobble-heads.

The three aren't even using the rings (which you know, would allow a kwami to theoretically control a sentibeing wielder like the wielder could them), Adrien's just on autopilot and the most mature and sensible of the three spirits (Nooroo) keeps getting overruled by the impulsive other two. Eventually a new villain arises, 'Black Birdwing', who routinely Akumatizes the fromageries and florists of Paris into assorted cheese and flower related monsters.

AU where Nathalie dies from the broken peacock, and Gabriel dies from the cataclysm. Neither of them tell anyone about them being supervillains.

Adrien is very glad that Hawkmoth seems to have quit, as it means he doesn't have to worry about getting akumatized while he grieves.

He also realizes that 3 of the people who lived in the mansion all died from mysterious illnesses that not a single doctor could even identify, let alone cure, and comes to the conclusion that it's something wrong with the house. His mom and Nathalie had identical symptoms, and given how much faster Nathalie's symptoms progressed compared to Emile's, whatever is causing it is getting worse.

(He's pretty sure his house wasn't built with any hazardous materials, but like, it would be the easiest explanation.)

He finds out about the secret lair while construction is being done, and puts 2 and 2 together about his father being Hawkmoth, along with what actually caused the mysterious illnesses.

("My Lady, I have good news and bad news. Good news? I found and recovered the peacock and the butterfly! Bad news? Where do I even begin.")

GOD

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Maybe that's the real ending.

There's actually been some discussion about Adrien becoming the endgame Butterfly Villain after Lila+ however many other people get Nooroo after her (the future Butterfly was never named, Marinette could fail to get the Brooch back from multiple generations of Hawkmoths!).

But I don't think he needs to 'turn evil' or snap under stress or something. He could legitimately wake up to the reality of his situation and have the presence of mind to actually take the Brooch from the previous villain when Ladybug is busy monologging (she already does that alot) and just leave.

Maybe he has the ring and can erase memories. Maybe he doesn't because Bug Noir mark whatever was needed, but Adrien realises that the only way out for him for him and Nooroo both from the cycle of controlling masters is to join forces and escape.

No terrorism. No speeches. Just leaving with the rings and Brooch, and setting up a new life someplace else.

And after over a decade of her failing to track the Butterfly villains, It's not like Ladybug's going to be able to find them. So really, a happy ending for Adrien, Nooroo, and Paris who will finally be free.

I honestly think Adrien should take Nooroo and GO, like sneak out of the house in the middle of the night and make a run for it. Maybe he can explore the world, crash with the Gorilla when he needs to, idk. He needs to get away from every single person in his life right NOW

---

Marinette would hunt him down. She'd finally put effort into something and it would be to make sure Adrien is safe, and by safe, she means with her, where she can own him and keep an eye on him. She'd have to hang onto his rings for safekeeping too. And none of it would be out of character.

Adrien needs to wipe out the knowledge that he even existed from all of Paris and then book it.

If you made Adrien the protagonist, Miraculous would be a horror series.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

I don't necessarily agree with Chloe.

In universe, his power as a person of privilege to absolve him of consequences for the first few seasons would be the same. So in-universe, I don't see much changing there. And while I think half the fandom would despise him far more than his female counterpart for being an untouchable blond rich male bully, I think he'd actually have more fans overall because for some reason, fangirls love toxic powerful males with broken childhoods.

If you genderswap Chloe, you have an archetypal 'I can fix him' bastard boyfriend from a light novel.

Agreed on Male!Kagami, for season three I think he'd do well actually. But as of Lies, he'd be seen controlling and jealous, even if that wasn't a fair assessment.

Male!Lila though....

Oh boy.

Lila gropes Adrien.

Lila openly touches him in as inappropriately as the rating allows and pursues him as a trophy. Adrien's only way of controlling Lila is letting her do this to him, as that's the condition of their agreement to leave Marinette alone.

As someone else pointed out on reddit, she's basically molesting him in a pg NTR plot.

'Nice guy' isn't on the table here. It's debatable just how high the rating would have to climb to allow Male!Lila to come remotely close to doing the same thing to Adrienne, but the sheer hate towards him would make what Lila gets now look tame.

Do you agree that Marinette would have WAY more haters if she were a dude named Marin and Adrien were a girl named Adrianne?

Obviously because double standards

When she does it, it’s cute (It’s not and makes me wanna throw up) when Marin does it, it’s perverted and he needs to be locked up before he commits S/A

A girl takes multiple photos of a guy without him noticing? “Aaw, that’s adorable! She has a crush!” Barf.

A guy doing that? “Ew! What a stalker! Lock him up!” Again, barf.

Marin would have been arrested in the first or second season

[actually-factually-anonymous]

After how she lost to Gabriel and how she chose to not only lie about it, but set him up as a hero; any unbiased assessment of Marinette Dupain-Cheng would conclude that despite whatever talents she may have using the Miraculous- she is not competent to wield any of them responsibly.

Just like how just having excellent aim with a firearm doesn't automatically qualify someone as a good solider or police officer, Marinette simply isn't fit for hero work. Whatever sympathy one might have for her doesn't change what she chose to do, how pathetically she lost to Gabriel despite having so many advantages in her corner, how she chose to lie to such a ludicrously dangerous extent.

Really, Marinette as she is could only work as a deconstruction of the 'child hero archetype'. She was talented and capable to the point where her teacher thought she was the greatest prodigy ever, but because of that she was given too much power, and far too little discipline and guidance despite the fact she was as immature as she was talented. Thus she ends up making clumsy mistakes and selfish choices that a more mature and disciplined hero wouldn't, and it results in disaster.

As it stands, if Su-Han was remotely competent himself then Marinette would be a side character with amnesia. And I think everyone in the show, including Marinette herself, would have been better off for it.

"Oh, but if you were in Marinette's position, you'd do the same as her" (calling Gabriel a hero).

I. Would. Not.

First of all, I do not like to lie. Whenever I do lie, I'll just come clean some seconds later because lying makes me feel anxious and bad.

Secondly, if my partners' dad imprisoned them, brainwash the entire world, put people's life in danger multiple times for months, use my partners face (which made my partner uncomfortable) on an AI softwere and (insert every other bad thing Gabriel has done), calling him a hero would make me feel sick to my stomach.

You can not assume that everyone will do the same because not everyone is the same.

Someone might have done the same as Mari.

Someone might've kept quiet about everything and let another person tell the truth.

Someone might've kept quiet and let the partner figure the stuff on their own.

Someone might've revealed the truth to the partner, exclusively.

Someone might've revealed the truth to everyone.

Someone, not everyone.

We are all different individuals with different upbringings, cultures, religions, families, ethnicities, nationalities, wants, needs, likes, interests, hobbies, passions, goals, dislikes, personalities, sexualities, gender, looks, skills, flaws, and the list just keeps going on, that makes us who we are.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

Why roleswaps don't do season four

Kwami Swap AUs are a decently active part of the Miraculous Fandom. The most usual culprits being the obvious role reversal of Plagg and Tikki's holders.

But for some reason, while these Kwami swaps are keen to follow the earlier seasons for more or less beat for beat, there's precious few if any that venture into season four or five. Nevermind any that follow the 'Ladynoir conflict' arc.

And it's not hard to guess why, could you imagine a Kwami Sawp AU that featured Ladybug!Adrien doing that to Lady Noire?

Of course not. Hell, 99% percent of the AU's that feature a roleswap don't even touch season four, nevermind replicate its themes. Because Marinette getting the Chat Noir treatment would be gross and unpleasant unlike the 'cute and funny' vibes that those stories tend to go for.

It's almost like an old Star Trek episode where they addressed an issue of the day through speculative fiction to push the audience to consider an issue without their own biases and preconceptions interfering too badly.

Marinette acting like an awful leader and friend to Chat Noir is normalized by the narrative, heck it even insists that she's in the right. But by flipping the script it becomes unbearable to see happening to poor, cheeky but endearing Lady Noir.

Then having her spend months with an insult in her bell? Having Adrien and his best friend laugh about it later while Marinette was off still mentally recovering from having Cataclysmed a person?

Well, that wouldn't fly.

And just imagine what the Kuro Neko would look like. A freedom-loving and extroverted female character repressing her personality into a docile and 'perfect' persona for the sake her male partner, said male partner instantly falling in love with that manufactured persona, and the conclusion of the episode being that the male character was in the right the whole time and the female character was just too needy?

No, no that's not the kind of thing the average roleswap writer would put out. Better to skip those beats entirely, lest the unfortunate implications set in and sour the whole story.

[actually-factually-anonymous]

The weird thing about these examples are that- as you pointed out- most of them are entirely legitimate and correct but the show insists that they're wrong and unfair. But the show itself is acknowledging these criticisms by bringing them and then rather than trying to refute or even excuse them most of the time, it does the equivalent of stamping its feet and going "nuh-uh."

It's the most pitiful counterargument anyone could muster, so much that all it does is make the accused look pathetic. Why even bring up these critiques in the first place if you can't even muster the most basic of rebukes besides "I'm right because I said so"?

These episodes were written by multiple (alleged) professionals. People were paid to write this dialogue. Even if it were incorrect, or even blatant shilling I'd expect something better than this.

For example:

In Star Trek: Voyager, Captain Janeway is infamous for many reasons that eventually spawned the much beloved "Captain Insaneway" meme. One of those reasons was because she effectively murdered a member of her crew who had been created by a Transporter accident that merged two of the main characters. Janeway 'solved' the problem by forcing Tuvix (a fully self-aware and very happy to be alive person who didn't want to die) to be separated into his component selves again, killing him to revive Tuvok and Neelix.

Then, years later, there was another episode where The Emergency Medical Hologram was discussing a matter of a holonovel he'd wrote that may have misrepresented the crew, and this line comes up:

The Doctor:... The Vortex characters are larger than life! They're nothing like our crew, as far as I know captain you haven't executed any of my patients.

Tuvix was, in fact, one of The Doctor's patients. So this line is obviously wrong, but the show itself is pointedly ignoring that fact. Because bringing that up in a scene which is meant to show The Doctor's portrayal of a Janeway-expy that's a maniac is inaccurate would only defeat the purpose.

Now, whatever you might think about this scene, it does not go ahead and have The Doctor bring up Tuvix as an example of how Janeway's expy was more accurate than she might have wanted others to realize, and then have Janeway 'girlboss' her way over that fact to have The Doctor inexplicably retract his objection as though it was false.

Because that would be ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Su-han inexplicably switching from being Ladybug's justified critic in "Ephemeral" to asking for a 'pound it' because Ladybug insisted she was right despite all logic otherwise.

You would think that a professional writing team would be able to do better. Or at least know better than to bring up criticisms they can't refute or bring themselves to address. But evidently not.

Sometimes I think about Su-Han's character and how the show's treatment of him highlight so may of the narrative's flaws.

As much as he's a dick, all the points he brings up are really good points. Fu was a shitty mentor. Marinette isn't suited to being the guardian. Ladybug not knowing Chat Noir's identity does cause problems. Ladybug should be held accountable for losing all the miraculous.

Yet in each and every episode he shows up, they never engage with his points. Neither Ladybug nor the narrative itself really gives a good argument for why his points aren't right. Ladybug just girlbosses for a bit and the grandmaster of the guardian order is so in awe of her that he starts groveling for forgiveness at ever having doubted her. (Literally groveling in the case of Evolution, despite how she just lost all the miraculous!!)

Ladybug never has to meaningfully grapple with his criticism or bring up an ideology that counters him. She's just insecure for a bit and goes along with what he says until she decides not to, goes "nuh uh" and that's enough for him to back off and say he's wrong and she's right. Her argument always comes back to "I'm an awesome Ladybug and you should trust me".

And let me reiterate, that's supposedly the grandmaster of an ancient order of monks who was task with guarding magical WMDs for everyone's safety. Yet you're telling me this 14 year old girl is so much better than him in everything that he should immediately defer to her judgement simply because she's good at beating akumas?

That's the kind of respect any half decent protagonist earns by beating the end-of-season major-threat BBEG after the order would've outright failed and been in serious trouble if the protagonist didn't intervene.

And Ladybug gets it by beating a run of the mill akuma that wasn't even significantly harder than their usual ones.

---

Miraculous does this basically anytime someone criticizes Marinette: the critic is mean about it, Marinette gets upsette, no actual counter arguments are presented outside of “Marinette is an awesome girlboss so who cares what you think!”, Marinette beats the Akuma of the week and the criticism gets dropped completely. It shows that the writers don't actually want to engage with the actual criticism even when they acknowledge it.

The thing about characters criticizing Marinette is that it’s always depicted as wrong to do so. Su Han is being too strict and mean and upsetting Marinette, Sublime’s mom is unreasonable and mean and upsetting Marinette, Lila and Vincent are ruining Marinette’s reputation on purpose so they’re mean and upsetting Marinette. And, like, three out of four of these examples say nothing untrue about Marinette. Marinette is a poor hero and Guardian, Marinette did ruin Sublime’s chance at a sponsorship and Marinette is the crisis friend who only contacts her friends when she needs something.

The writers trust so blindly that the audience absolutely has to care about how Marinette is feeling at any given moment that, the moment you don’t, it’s difficult to get invested in almost any of the problems in the show. Season 4 was where they first started leaning heavily onto the assumed Marinette sympathy, and that’s what originally wore down my ability to sympathize with her. By now it’s gone so far that she can be having a genuine problem that’s not caused by herself for once and I’d still go: “it’s not about you, shut up.”

[actually-factually-anonymous]

the writers are just throwing everything at you to try to get you engaged again.

"Hey guys, looks: We're doing Seelie It's like Evangelion, but Miraculous, aren't you interested? Don't you want to theorize adn speculate and write fanfics for us to crib off of and pretend we're masterminds!?

Aren't you engaged with the story again!?"

No.

This is just more jingling keys for the fandom. It means nothing. Like the return of the Guardians meant nothing. Like Marinette losing the Miraculous to Gabriel meant nothing. Like how Adrien's potential as anything but a love interest meant nothing.

You already wrote Tomoe as a potential villain with her being allied to Gabriel and swearing to continue his legacy last season. This is just sensationalization up for that idea of co-conspirators coming back to haunt Ladybug.

It doesn't change anything. Heck, as a potential villain Tomoe's greatest weakness was the fact that Nathalie's testimony could put her behind bars. She's a villain with an instant-win button for Marinette to beat her with. The same thing applies to Not!Seelie, and the only tension would come from whether or not Marinette pushes the win button at the expenses of Nathalie, Kagami, and Adrien.

The same problem that sending Tomoe to prison posed, just made larger for empty drama.

But that's par the course for Miraculous isn't it?

This is mainly a rant but like. Whatever they're doing in the new season is so stupid and convoluted like why would you do that. Even beyond the fact that the writers are shit and can't even do one plot well, let alone all this other bullshit, having this many plots happening is just way too cluttered. Why was Lila even built up to be this big bad if you were going to introduce a bigger bad immediately after. "Oh she's actually extremely manipulative, she's tricking three separate women into thinking she's their daughter!" and then they do this? Why? Are they trying to capitalize on the fact that people liked the idea of The Supreme from the Paris special and they wanted to reel people in by bringing it into canon? Cause that's what it feels like. Wow repeat of Chloe and Hawkmoth. Lila's the shitty teenage girl they're trying to build up but there's adult villains so why waste time on the shitty teenage girl and you were claiming she was somehow worse than the adult villains or something? Also if they're adding an entire secret organization they're either gonna add to the cast bloating (high chance most of those symbols or whatever are never gonna be revealed or they're gonna be like Colt and will be DOA so the writers can just mention them once as someone's sad backstory and then never again) or they're gonna retcon older characters into being members of an evil organization and either way is just shitty writing.

Also why would you add this whole backstory of Ivan having basically a watered down version of the knowledge and support that Adrien should be getting if you weren't gonna use that to make Marinette regret everything she's done and tell Adrien immediately? Why are you having her say the shit she should be saying to Adrien to someone else? Ivan is a side character, why give him that backstory? It's not even gonna be relevant later in the show it's just a shitty one off to make Marinette see the same thing Adrien doesn't know he's going through and make her look sad at Adrien and the not have her come clean? Oh, right. Because her own discomfort at dealing with Adrien's feelings is more important. She wasn't actually sad for Adrien. She was upsette that she was being guilt tripped. She also showed Nathalie Gabriel's letter for fucks sake and like ignoring all the shit they're doing with making Nathalie still actually evil (which is stupid!!!!!!!), this is a yet another major disrespect of Adrien's autonomy. I don't even like Gabe and I think reading his shitty will and showing it to other people is just absolutely disgusting controlfreak behavior.

And yes, I did also think that this was the writer's way of passing the blame from Marinette, cause we all know they're reactive like that. TA hates that people still like Chloe? Makes her an idiot and deports her from the country to be abused. Hates that people are critical of his show? Makes a "meta" episode in retaliation. Etc. etc. Like I can believe he got sick of everyone rightfully shitting on Marinette for the absolutely shitty way she's been treating people and so they're gonna make Nathalie manipulate her so they can't blame her anymore. But like everything else with the show, it's badly done and not only are they not gonna land this one (do they ever?), my prediction is they're gonna try to have their cake and eat it too like with everything else. "oh Nathalie wasn't actually evil. She was just being manipulated by her shitty evil organization dad. she was actually trained as a child to be the perfect henchperson but it was done against her will so she's actually abused so you have to forgive her like you forgive felix and not chloe. Nathalie's actually a good person and you're stupid for ever thinking she was evil. after all, she had good intentions, she had to be manipulative. as you see in this ep, she's a double agent and she's gonna help Marinette (only Marinette, be prepared for another BugNoir appearance) bring the organization down. also, Marinette isn't to blame for lying to Adrien because Nathalie manipulated her but Nathalie also isn't to blame because she had to do what she had to do to fight against the organization and they """won""" in the end so it's fine! we planned this from the very beginning!!"

And the worst thing is that they're probably gonna drag this arc on for another 10 years and basically every single little they're starting with or inevitably introduce is gonna be abandoned or brushed off. There's gonna be no pay off to this. Marinette's gonna lose the miraculouses like several more times and somehow it won't actually be her fault. There's twelve sections or whatever in that organization. One for each of the Zodiac. Bets now on the side character heroes getting their miraculouses swiped and given to those twelve members. And then that plot point will also die out because the writers can't be bothered to stick to one thing and make it good. They gotta do a lot of different things and do all of them badly.

---

Yeah, like, that's exactly it. The evil organization is just an obvious combined scapegoat and social media hype engine. It's so transparent what they're doing here and I just can't be bothered to be interested even in how they’ll fuck it up, because I already know exactly how they'll fuck it up. They're gonna do the same thing all lazy writers do with evil cabals, they're gonna pretend everything that's happened in the series has been part of their masterful evil plan all along, all villains are either working for or being manipulated by them and everything the heroes do has been predicted by them. Instead of making the story and world more interesting, it's gonna suck what little interest there is right out. Dragon Age Veilguard did it, Young Justice did it, Evil Within did it, Neon Genesis Evangelion did it and that's where Astruc most likely plagiarized it from.

Never mind that the writers have a long history of losing interest in any concept that takes them too long to implement. We still don't know what two of the power-up potions do and only the flight one keeps getting utilized. We got two additional heroes whose character arcs were improved by getting a Miraculous in Alya and Chloé with everyone else just happening to have a problem that thematically corresponds with the Miraculous they get in the episode without it really impacting the episode more than giving them more confidence or something else they could do even without a Miraculous. Or they just get slapped with a Miraculous because the writers needed to fill up the roster, especially when the last four were just handed out like free candy in a single episode because the writers lost interest.

The writers will introduce an element of mystery that the fandom can make guesses about, like what power-ups the different potions give and what Miraculous and powers which classmate will get, and then they'll lose interest partway through. We’ll get maybe two interesting reveals out of this council, with the rest either adding nothing to the story or getting unceremoniously dropped. Like, I wonder when Ray's gonna be interesting? He was introduced in 'Daddycop' but we most likely won't see him again until Zoé's spotlight episode because there isn't enough time or focus to build him up because the writers are just throwing everything at you to try to get you engaged again.