#celebrian as the daughter of sauron / halbrand

[tired0artist]

| Celebrían & Galadriel |

in this au celebrían is supposed to be halbrand’s (sauron’s) daughter

[darklinaforever]

Decidedly, we are all fans of the headcanon of Celebrian as the daughter of Sauron / Halbrand and Galadriel...

[neyafromfrance95]

you said that as a shipper, you don't care if galadriel and sauron have romantic moments, can you elaborate?

sure. what i mean is "traditionally" romantic, their dynamic can be essentially romantic/soulmatistic without a traditional romance formula.

i love haladriel for their push and pull dynamic bc as a metaphor it explores the dark vs. the light, and subtextually it is about destined enemies x doomed lovers.

i don't mind galadriel not ever giving in and succumbing to sauron bc for me, the most important thing is her inner conflict, and subtextually, galadriel being tempted by having power in the middle-earth and being pulled under by the darkness will always be interconnected with her being tempted by sauron's proposal and imply her heart desiring the taboo (in trop continuity). u would just have to read between the lines.

i don't care that she outwardly rejects sauron even after seeing him as halbrand in the finale, bc the scene confirms that she has feelings for the latter. her willpower and pride are simply strong. and i like these traits of hers, i don't want them subdued, i don't want her to ever submit.

as for sauron, his love may not be explicitly stated either, but rather communicated through his delusional and obsessive yearning. every time he mentions "light" it will signify galadriel in some sense, nenya will still symbolize galadriel for him. and if the one ring is inspired by gal, well, that will be insane.

i personally love their sexually-charged push and pull dynamic of the cosmic scales. they can be lovey-dovey in valinor in the 7th age (in our fanon), but now i want galadriel's devotion to opposing/slaying sauron to be so strong it crosses the line of a simple hate and becomes an intrinsic part of her identity. i want sauron's worship of her light to turn into him obsessively coveting her, desiring to posses her like silmarils.

their battle in the finale is brutal, but it's as if they're dancing at the same time, it's a form of storytelling. him stabbing her is a symbolically sexual, ravishing act that can be read as a metaphor for gazing into an abyss for so long, the abyss gazes back into you! there is a thin line between hate and love, as those can be two sides of the same coin, and when u let one in, the other may follow as well.

galadriel's outward relationship with sauron and her inward relationship with halbrand is how her relationship with the darkness, power and ambition is explored through a more tangible narrative.

like, the story itself shows and tells you, and everyone working on the show say that sauron and galadriel are intertwined in a way that places their connection above every other relationship they have, and ultimately, that's what makes for a good ship.

my only concern moving forward is that their interactions won't be central. this is why im holding onto the hope for the mind-palace communications. but there are many other ways to either make them interact or show that they are thinking about one another.

i still am delusional and wish for a kiss tho. it can be done without gal "joining" sauron if the writers want it done. and i guess i have to bring this topic up as well, since anons have asked me this a few times before but i once gave my "unpopular" opinion about it at length and prefer to leave it at that. but in short, i don't really care if celebrian is sauron's daughter or not. would be great if they leave some space for allowing "sauron is the father" interpretation, and i would be equally ok with them making it clear that she is celeborn's daughter. i prefer her to not be introduced at all in trop, tbh. what i love about sauron and galadriel's relationship is that cosmic connection between them, not who may or may not be related to them as a third party.

[rey-jake-therapist]

Folks need to get over Celeborn already. Not even Tolkien cared enough to make him into a actual character, he’s just “Galadriel’s husband” because Arwen needed to exist. In some versions, Celeborn wasn’t even around when Celebrian was conceived and born! He and Galadriel spend centuries apart, and in the end she leaves for Valinor and he stays behind in Middle-earth! Literally, Galadriel could have spend centuries in love with Sauron that Celeborn would t even matter, since they were always apart doing their own thing.

Yep.

I don't understand this obsession with Celeborn and Celebrian. Like wanting Mirdania to be Celebrian while nothing, I say nothing, speaks in favor of that theory in the show except for the fact that Sauron compared her hair to Galadriel's.

Mirdania is framed since the beginning as a very secondary character, and probably doomed to die before the end of the season. If she was a "mystery daughter", she wouldn't be kept in the background, she would have been shown at least once in the trailer imho

She's down bad for Sauron since she met him at the gate (girl I GET IT), and Sauron is not an idiot, he perceived that. So now, he's using vile flattery to get her on his side, like, "wow, you totally look like Lady Galadriel in this light". It's not said in the show and it's probably a mistake, but Galadriel is considered a very, very pretty lady. Her hair in particular is FAMOUS. So comparing Mirdania to Galadriel is a huge compliment. Of course he got caught at his own game and found himself thinking of "the one that got away", but that's beyond the subject.

And frankly, I think we should hang on to our seat belts, because there might even be a kiss coming at some point. That won't mean a thing, (not to him anyway), but I don't trust him to play fair in this game LOL

Now, Celeborn. I think there's a reason why Galadriel dropped his name like a hot potato and never mentioned him again : right now, he's not important. It was the writers telling us "we know, he exists, but there's no room here for him now. Move on!" It doesn't mean he can't ever show up in the show at some point (he definitely will imho), but I don't see it happening before season 3, even season 4 !

And he's not a threat to the connection between Sauron and Galadriel anyway lol If Sauron had remained Halbrand, a man of the Southlands, that's a discussion that would be worth having, because Elves generally mate for life and fall in love only once. So if Galadriel fell in love with another man, worse, a mortal, it would raise questions regarding her true feelings for Celeborn. And it would be very boring too. We had enough mortal/Elves failed and successful romances, thank you very much.

But we can clown ourselves as much as we like : Sauron and Galadriel will never, EVER become a couple, and it's NOT because Galadriel has already fallen in love once, or because she's already married. She's the Light, Sauron's Darkness. She's GOOD, he's EVIL !

I don't know about you, but I think it's a more solid threat to a potential romance between the two than... Galadriel's marriage or Sauron flirting with a coworker lol

Sauron's never going to be a good guy, and Galadriel's never going to fall into darkness. They're literally doomed by the narrative. Sauron could have a wife of his own that it would add absolutely nothing.

[buffyfan145]

Word of warning we just got a ton of possible leaks about season 2 of "Rings of Power" coming from The One Ring Net source. However, I will point out while a few of these seem possible this reminds me a lot of other "leaked" things for my other fandoms, especially DC and Marvel movies/shows, and most of those turned out to be false and fans just posting things for their own enjoyment. However, this is how it first leaked that Halbrand was Sauron before season 1 aired. Some of these do match scoops/spoilers we've gotten from Fellowship of Fans an interviews with the cast, but some of these are so out of left field. I'll post a breakdown under a cut of the major ones but you can see the post in full here. But I will point out some of these would be massive changes to the lore that even I'd be shocked if they do it, so again we'll see.

So the first thing that matches what FOF and even Charlie Vickers teased is that season 2 is going to show a lot of Sauron flashbacks and tell his side of the story and that we'll be in on his plans the whole time. But according to this post the Mairon version is a separate actor and that Gavi is actually the Annatar version but Halbrand/Charlie is still the main one going forward.

They're saying the Tolkien estate gave Amazon more access to "The Silmarillion" and we will see all the Valar, Maiar, Eru (he's just a voice though so we won't see a person), Melkor/Morgoth, Mairon (even called this name), Gandalf/Mithrander (who is Daniel's The Stranger), and even Ungoliant as we get this full backstory in the show.

Halbrand will go back to the dwarves and reveal he's Mairon to them and they truth him because of Aule.

It'll be revealed that Sauron/Mairon had a son and Adar killed him, which was why the line Adar said about "a woman or a child" was said in s1. No idea who the boy's mother is but possibly Amelia Kenworthy's character. This is a huge departure but would be interesting to have Sauron/Mairon/Halbrand actually have been a father and the 2nd Maiar besides Melian to have children.

Gandalf/Mithrander will also have flashbacks, including that he almost sided with Mairon, and even introduce Shadowfax.

Tom Bombadil and Goldberry will appear, which we already saw a leak about this possibly happening last year.

Supposedly Halbrand/Sauron does keep up his infatuation with Galadriel but actually goes back to Eregion not as just Annatar but as Celeborn!!! 😮 So they don't rescue Celeborn after all but it is Sauron/Halbrand and it's making it sound like there's romantic scenes between them but again it's actually Sauron/Halbrand with Galadriel and not Celeborn. I know some of us Haladriel shippers have written this exact thing in our fics and if this really does happen that again hints that Sauron/Halbrand really could be Celebrian's biological father which I would be shocked if the show did this even though I'd also love it. LOL Then add in if they do this change where Sauron had a son that died and possibly ends up having a daughter with Galadriel. It does sound like the real Celeborn does come back too at some point so if this happens this is going to be interesting, even though I know a lot of the purists and regular LOTR fans might hate it.

The season does end with Sauron forging the One Ring, which FOF has also been speculating. The thing is if Galadriel will be with him when he does as FOF reported on her being captured by Adar during the Battle of Eregion with this also confirms happens in the last 2 episodes.

They're also saying too that the season will also end with Galadriel making a choice to save either real Celeborn and/or Sauron/Halbrand as Celeborn, which again could point to above that she gets captured and then decides to stay with him. So this is going to be very interesting if any of these turn out to be true.

[fatcatlittlebox]

What do you think about theory that Mirandia is Celebrian in disguise? Especially after 2x05 when Annatar said that she looks like Gal. I hope this doesn't happen.

IMO, No. Textwise, it doesn’t really make sense. She would have met TROP Elrond already in Eregion and it probably would have been brought up between Galadriel and Elrond by now. Especially since text Elrond fell in love with her at first sight. And in the text, they don’t meet in Eregion, anyways. They meet later in Rivendell which doesn’t exist yet in this timeline. Furthermore, text Celebrian and Gal had a pretty good relationship. So for TROP Gal to actually consider sailing to Aman without any reference to a daughter she presumably loved, would be strange. Miv had said in interviews that Gal is struggling to find a reason to fall in love with Middle Earth again. Why would that be hard if her daughter resided there?

Mirandia’s character seems to me, if she would be any text character, more like a prototype of Thuringwethil. She’s a First Age character, but she seems so easily corruptible and a little unhinged.

But what I think she is actually supposed to be, is a surrogate character for Galadriel. I think she’s meant to show that elves find Halbrand/Annatar physically attractive and sexually appealing. Right off the bat, FIRST thing about Mirandia that the audience sees is that she desires Halbrand. She practically 🤤 at the sight of his dirty, hairy body. And she is consistently like that. She literally can’t stop touching him. That’s lust.

One of the biggest debates about TROP is whether or not Gal would fuck Hal since she’s married. The reasoning being that sex for elves was interpreted to be a sacred thing in the text and monogamy being assumed since Tolkien was Catholic. Here, the writers are establishing that that may not be an absolute rule. Firstly, if elves can feel lust then, logically, that sexual attraction can be acted on separately and not contingent upon love. Additionally, it’s showing that Sauron is not above using physical seduction as a means to persuade or manipulate someone.

So I don’t think at this point that Mirandia is meant to be a major canon character other than setting context for sex and Maia-elf attraction.

[essenceofarda]

Had a rings of power dream last night 😳

Anyway, in it, Galadriel was pregnant when Celeborn went off to war (hence why she did not join him and was left behind). A few decades after she gave birth, she decided to take Celebrian (who was the equivalent of like... maybe a 2 or 3 year old?) to go visit the last place that Celeborn was known to be before he was 'killed'. Before they get there, they are attacked, and Celebrian and Galadriel are separated, and Galadriel thinks that Celebrian died, adding to her grief. Turns out Celebrian was captured by Halbrand/Sauron, who decided to raise her as a prodigy/daughter-figure. Anyway... Celebrian is Too Good to be a proper villain, however, and has a habit of running away. During one of these escapades she runs into Elrond and co, and pretends she is escaping the bad guys... I don't remember much after that, except that everyone is S h o o k when they find out she's The Dark Princess, daughter of Sauron 😳🤔😔

Anyway, it's JUST hokey enough to be plausible for RoP 😅 but it was kinda a fun dream regardless

[lya-dustin]

Rewatching rings of power, and i can't believe the showrunners completely missed the opportunity of making Galadriel's revenge quest include her pressuemed dead husband and daughter.

Like yes Finrod did actually die at Saurons hands during Beren's quest, but the setup for Celebrian x Elrond and Halbrand/Sauron getting friendzoned because she still hasn't lost hope that Celeborn and Celebrian are still alive(they are) because no matter what everyone tells her, she knows it in her feä/soul they are still alive somewhere

[ringsofpowerfans]

Haladriel fans!

For those of you who headcanon Celebrian as “Halbrand’s” daughter, how do you see her capture?

Did Sauron know about it? Did he find out afterwards? Did he plan it?

[ao3feed-tolkien]

this is our last dance

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/Sa46luW

by poeticmemory

There’s a laugh of recognition in Galadriel’s voice. “That bad already, huh?”

“Every single fucking thing I say is wrong,” he murmurs into the phone. A glance back inside reveals that his daughter isn’t paying the least bit of attention.

“Oh good,” Galadriel says cheerfully. “So it’s not just me.”

A dry laugh escapes. “Unfortunately not.”

“Don’t take it to heart, Hal,” she says in a reassuring tone. “Celebrian’s holding onto a lot of anger right now, and she doesn’t know how to work through it.”

He furrows his brow, leaning on the railing. “She’s just a kid. What could she possibly have to be angry about?”

---

“I don’t see the point of placing all the blame on someone who isn’t fucking here to defend himself.”

or: while recovering from a horrific attack, Celebrian recalls the last summer she spent with her father.

Inspired by the film Aftersun (2022, dir. Charlotte Wells)

Words: 8127, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Fandoms: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (TV 2022)

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings, Major Character Death

Categories: F/M

Characters: Halbrand (The Rings of Power), Sauron | Mairon, Celebrían (Tolkien), Elrond Peredhel, Galadriel | Artanis, Celeborn (Tolkien), Theo (The Rings of Power), Arwen Undómiel

Relationships: Galadriel | Artanis/Halbrand (The Rings of Power), Galadriel | Artanis & Halbrand (The Rings of Power), Galadriel | Artanis/Sauron | Mairon, Galadriel | Artanis & Sauron | Mairon, Celebrían/Elrond Peredhel, Celebrían & Sauron | Mairon

Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Modern Setting, Heavy Angst, Parent Death, Implied/Referenced Drug Addiction, references to drug trafficking, Parental Guilt, Grief/Mourning, Multi-Era, POV Multiple, Past Sexual Coercion, Aftermath of Torture, PTSD, Intergenerational Trauma, Difficult Parent-Child Relationships, the one ring as a metaphor for addiction, inspired by aftersun, haladriel week: day 5, all of the family and none of the fluff, Half-Maia Celebrian (kinda)

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/Sa46luW

[buffyfan145]

I totally agree with you all and I’m certain she hasn’t even been born yet. Thankfully I’ve seen a lot of viewers point that out and how out of character it would be for Galadriel to abandon her child to go on this centuries long quest to find Sauron if she left her daughter behind. Plus also make it look like when she was with Halbrand that she was going to leave behind her daughter again for a life with him (and that’s just going on before Halbrand was revealed to be Sauron as she would’ve been choosing a mortal man over her daughter). Then add in Gil-Galad and Elrond not letting Galadriel say goodbye to her only child before she left to Valinor and it’s out of character for Elrond as he’s not that cruel (and it’s his future wife).

This likely is just speculation as I’ve seen it now for every female actress that was announced as joining the cast and her actress would be a series regular for the rest of the series if they were adding her. The main theory I agree with is Galadriel will actually get pregnant with Celebrian after she reunites with Celeborn, but that likely won’t be until season 3 or 4. They also likely can’t really do Celebrian and Elrond’s love story as they actually don’t get married till the 3rd Age and they don’t have the rights to do that especially now that WBD got the new deal to make more movies so it’s part of an anti-competition clause in their contracts (and why WBD can’t touch whatever the show is planning to do). 

Also we’ve never seen an elf baby born or an elf pregnancy so I’d actually like to see the show do that. Galadriel actually is a really doting mother to her daughter (and eventually her grandchildren) and I’d like to actually see that happen to her. Plus will be interesting to see how Sauron takes that knowing she’s pregnant and then once the baby is born. As much as I love our fics of him being Celebrian’s father, the show can’t do it but could make him have a soft spot for her as she’s Galadriel’s child.

On Celebrian S2 Rumors

Not to engage in catastrophic thinking but ya’ll, seeing all these blondes joining the TRoP cast..

Don’t they dare. Don’t they dare have Celebrian show up in S2. It’s not only because I’m neutral about her as a character unless she’s Saurondriel’s child lol. Nor that I don’t want Elrond to find love. Or even that nobody that’s joined the cast is hot enough to to find Celeborn’s existence begrudgingly acceptable lol

But from a storytelling POV, if she existed in S1, it’s indefensible. If she doesn’t, that’s some serious time-jumping. Or will Elves now age like humans?

Let me just enjoy the liminal space between S1 & S2. Let the chips fall where they may. Outta my hands.

Thoughts?

[demonscantgothere]

Is Celebrian as Sauron's daughter just a crack theory or is there any merit to it?

Oooooooh, I'm so glad you asked, anon, because let me explain something very interesting to you!

The rings of power were roughly forged in the Second Age between the years 1500/1600. At the time, it is explained that Celeborn and Galadriel were together.

Tolkien had a lot of discrepancies with Celebrían. A lot. First of all, what little he wrote of her is mostly not even official canon but from unfinished manuscripts and letters. For instance, in some stories she has a brother Amroth, but those stories were de-canonized because Tolkien changed his mind and later made Amroth the son of Amdír instead of Celeborn and Galadriel.

The first mention of Celebrían is around the Second Age 1350-1400 when she was traveling alone with her mother, Galadriel, through Khazad-dûm. At this time, Celeborn was not with them. Mind you, the very first mention of her, there's no father involved. Her and her mother, Galadriel, are traveling alone together. IN FACT, Celebrían and Galadriel wander alone together for a couple hundred of years, looking for Celeborn. The next mention of Celebrían is in the Second Age in 1700, after the forging of the Rings, and it is mentioned specifically by Tolkien that they were trying to find Celeborn, but Tolkien never explains why Celeborn isn't with them in the first place. Dude just goes missing for a couple hundred of years! (Hmm, sounds like the show, doesn't it?)

Celebrían isn't mentioned again until the Third Age when she marries Elrond in 2500. At this point, Galadriel and Celeborn have finally been reunited.

So, yes, there's lots of juicy discrepancies with Tolkien's timelines involving Celebrían because it was just all over the place and Celeborn was nowhere to be found.

[darklinaforever]

Honestly Freya Allan in her role as Ciri is the perfect fancast to play Sauron / Halbrand & Galadriel's daughter ; Celebrian. Or for Daemon & Rhaenyra's daughter ; Visenya.

[a-manda-lorian]

Rings of Power Headcanon time…….

It’s pretty clear in that last episode that the writers WANT us to want Halbrand (Sauron) and Galadriel to be a thing 😬 And they did a REALLY good job of making us. It feels strange, for sure, but I can’t fight jumping on the Saurondriel ship…… So here goes nothin-

I think in the coming seasons they are going to have Galadriel briefly give in to Sauron. She will “touch the darkness” one more time and we will ultimately find out that Celebrian is actually the daughter of Sauron. Before her birth, Celeborn will return from wherever he is (because we know he ain’t dead) and Galadriel will play it off as though Celebrian is his daughter. And no one, not even her future husband, Elrond, will know that she’s Sauron’s daughter. All we know of her life is that she eventually gets captured by orcs, tortured, and never mentally recovers from her experience, so she decides to leave Middle Earth. Well, what if during her captivity she learns the truth of her parentage?! That would be a tough pill to swallow. And! This lineage would further explain later on why Arwen, Celebrian’s daughter, is so affected and nearly dies because of the growing power of Sauron in the LOTR trilogy. If she is actually the granddaughter of Sauron, naturally she would have a very strong connection to him.

I could go on and on, but let me know if I seem too off base here… Or maybe I need to get my butt in gear and just write this as a fanfic 😂

[rey-jake-therapist]

"Mirdania is Celebrian" is one of the dumbest theories I've ever heard. It makes no sense; why would Galadriel fail to mention that she has a daughter in Eregion?! Why would she sail off to Valinor without saying goodbye to her??? Mirdania is a character who doesn't exist in the Tolkien canon. She might become important later on but right now she is just a young and naive elf who will probably die tragically when Eregion falls.

I will be more indulgent than you and not call the theory dumb because in another type of show, where storytelling is more subtle, it *could* be true. And if it's how other fans have fun, there's no wrong in speculating :) Many think Haladriel shippers are dumb for wanting Sauron and Galadriel to be in love, after all 😂

But I agree : there are way too many holes in this theory for me to take it seriously. I'll add a few things to what you said :

The writing of this show is not particularly subtle. For example, most of us knew that Halbrand was Sauron way before he revealed himself. Any Tolkien fan who saw him staring at the forge, then become a smith mimicked Leonardo Di Caprio pointing at his tv ! And there were a few other obvious hints that he was Sauron, for anyone who paid attention to see.

Galadriel having a daughter would be OOC, at this point of the story. And it would also make her connection with Halbrand/Sauron harder to understand. When we meet Galadriel, she's an angry warrior who lost her brother and her husband to the enemy. Her king and her best friend have turned their back on her and tried to banish her without calling it a banishment. It's very obvious that she has nothing to lose. When Sauron crosses her path, he's as low as she is, having been through a similar experience. It's why they connect so well and have this "I feel it too" moment, not because Halbrand is hot ! (Ok it must have played a bit too, I mean look at him lol)

My point is : Galadriel having a daughter doesn't work, narratively speaking ! If Celebrian is in her life, why would she feel so close to Halbrand? Why would she constantly act as if she didn't care about dying, as if no one would miss her if she did? Why wouldn't she say that she fights because she wants a better future for her?

No, Celebrian being born at this point of the story doesn't make any narrative sense. And Mirdania being Celebrian makes even less sense. I mean, Galadriel would know that her daughter is in the same vicinity as her mortal enemy, but she wouldn't mention her concern for her? She would let Adar capture her and take her away from Eregion, and send Elrond back to Gil-Galad, instead of asking him to make sure her daughter is safe?!

Frankly, if Mirdania turns out to be Celebrian, it's awful storytelling because it was not hinted or thought through at all. Not to mention that having mother and daughter crushing on the same evil guy, who would flirt with both... That would be very creepy 😬

[buffyfan145]

I keep going back to the two little elf girls in Annatar-Sauron's vision and how they looked like Haladriel's future daughters. The blonde looked like how we imagine Celebrian would look like as a child. The (younger?) redhead elfing had hair similar to what Halbrand's auburn hair looked like in the Post-Reveal Raft Scene and the ginger hair of Sauron before Adar killed him. They were also both wearing dresses in different shades of green. I think Sauron strongly associates that color with Galadriel. She wore an emerald/teal dress the last time he saw her; Mirdania always wears green and he sees her as discount version of the woman he truly wants; Also, in Medieval History, we know that brides usually wore green wedding dresses because the color represented fertility.

I think it's interesting that Sauron specifically wants daughters with Gal. He doesn't dream of having sons like many men do. Instead, he wants two beautiful and spirited little girls that will probably be much Little Galadriel was as a child. I also wonder if have two Half-Maiar daughters wouldn't be a dig at Melian? We tend to see them as being brother and sister with a big rivalry. I can just see Sauron feeling immense pride over the fact he had not one, but TWO, lovely and powerful Half-Maiar daughters, and she only had Luthien.

I really loved all of that too and those girls do looks like they could be their daughters!!! 😀 Love the green dresses repeating too not just for what you said, but also since Arwen's wedding dress was green in the movies and that's my favorite color too. And I thought about him wanting daughters and again at that rivalry he seems to have with Melian, which fits that theory about them being siblings (and that old song "Anything you can do I can do better" LOL), and having 2 half-Maiar children would one up her having one. LOL It just seems to fit with him being like that, and also both of the siblings falling for elves.