#caryl fans have not become antis

[daisyunchained]

#CarylersAnthem #Caryl #Carylers #Daryl #Carol #TWDCaryl #TWD #TWDDarylDixon #TBOC #DarylDixonSeason2 #SoulMates #Epicduo #DreamTeam #MyCarylLovingHeart

Caryler’s Anthem

October 1st 2024

I saw so many spoilers for #TWDCaryl on Tik Tok & I just let myself watch them all. Since we’re not getting what we want, what’s the point? I don’t want to give anything away about what I saw. There’s so much I have to say that I’m sorting through my head, (not about the spoilers). So before antis laugh, let me explain.

Why we are #Caryler’s -

Since S2 of #TWD we watched Caryl and Daryl become each others person in so many ways. They understood each other. They filled in the gaps for each other. He was the yin, she was the yang. When the world constantly tried to throw them way, they were there to remind each other “you matter.”

In a real world that mirrors the show (minus the zombies), many of us have felt like underdogs. When these two underdogs that no one expected to live through the first season began to grow & strengthen, we rallied around and cheered them on. They were us. Everyone knew, they couldn’t have made it without each other.

While this was happening, we could see how truly special these two actors were. Even better was how much Mel & Norm cared about each other irl. Watching their friendship blossom was a treasure. Their chemistry was undeniable on & off screen. Every scene between them electric.

At the same time this was happening, Norman/Daryl was becoming a known heart throb, even landing himself the title of People Magazine’s sexiest man of the year in 2013. While the public praised him, Melissa/Carol often got a different reaction.

Mel, an actress true to form let her hair go gray for the show. It was realistic. And with her grey, she was gorgeous in her own right. She began to break the mold. This shy actress started a trend among woman who suddenly weren’t afraid to go grey.

Yes she is easily noted as the best actress of her time, which can be seen by anyone who has eyes but she’s had to battle agism left & right. None of her counterparts in her age group, including Norm himself who she was always paired with. No one else got that kind of negative attention. Her fans quickly came to her defense. So did Norman.

Norm was known to say that Mel hated when she was referred to as Daryl’s mom. He often came to her defense in interviews, proclaiming how beautiful she was, inside and out: but things amped up online, antis were cruel, her fans defended. With all the fighting and negativity, Mel left even Twitter.

Further more, when anyone asked both Carol and Daryl about Caryl going canon, they would often tease about it. Even with the writers the answer was never no. Their chemistry just grew with the show. Haters were still awful with their taunts, saying things like “Why would Daryl go out with an old lady.” 😢 But Norm continued to speak highly of her. He is Melissa’s biggest fan & dear friend. It didn’t matter if she fit the social norms. Carol and Daryl, as well as Mel and Norm were forging their own path. They were breaking the mold in Hollywood & it was beautiful. The great thing about Norm, he’s the type to see the value in that.

Their scenes together were always passionate, moving, magnetic, powerful, sexy and captivating. When the spin off was announced, we all celebrated. If Caryl didn’t get together by the end of the series, it just meant they were saving it for the spin off. Right?

Caryler’s always respected #TWD for giving Daryl integrity. We praised the show for not throwing the hot actor with some young actress for cheap ratings. We Caryler’s believed in that whole heartedly. We were grateful to the show for staying true to form in that aspect.

I can leave this out. Carol had her relationships in the show but they were more on the surface. Even her relationship with King Ezekiel seemed like an escape, Henry, a reason to carry on. She did love the boy. When that arc ended even Carol called it a fairytale.

“I don’t regret the fairytale...” she said while giving Zeke back her ring.

Daryl had his almost none existent stint with Leah. It was more a means to an end, or a beginning I should say. It was a story arc that would lead us into the finale. Covid changed things. As a writer, I could see where they were headed. I believe there would be a story arc between Leah and Carol over Daryl, including the reapers arc but with Lauren Cohen returning to the show, I believe the story line was given to her to bring her back into the fold. But with the spin off announced, a Caryl centric story arc could now be moved to their own show. Even with Melissa taking a year off, we had every reason to hope.

I really thought the spin off would respect Caryl’s sacred bond & expand on it. I figured they would go that way out of respect for Melissa. Finally hooking up Daryl & Caryl romantically would break the mold on the unfair, ageist bull$hit people kept throwing at her when being compared to Daryl. The way the last seasons of #TWD were going, all signs pointed to yes. We became hopeful. We began looking forward to see Carol and Daryl cross that last boundary.

We had many reasons to hope that we would finally see Daryl and Carol give each other the love they both desperately deserved while they battled new surroundings. And who better for each other than Carol and Daryl themselves. No one knows their hearts, their wounds, their pain, their wins, shared and separate like Carol and Daryl. No one deserves it more.

Maybe it will still happen in S3 but with seeing all the spoilers, I don't think I should continue to hope. I do hope I'm wrong.

I still praise the actors valiant efforts & superb acting. Mel & Norm are at their best. Carol facing her trauma and ptsd is superb. She deserves healing. I just feel like we were mislead on Caryl going canon. Even the advertising for the show was misleading. Maybe the creators became bitter with the idea of Caryl going canon after toxic bouts with over zealous fans who in their own right, had invested 14 years into these characters and just wanted to see their favorites happy. If you wonder why Caryler’s are taking this hard, this is where our heads & hearts lie.

Much love from my forever Caryl loving heart.

PS. On a side note, I have never, not once, looked at my parents or siblings the way Daryl and Carol look at each other. ❤️‍🔥

[faithbetryin]

I never understood this about *those* Daryl fandom shippers: Why is it all or nothing with y’all? Why can’t you appreciate characters when they’re not a couple? Why can’t you analyze and appreciate character development and what it means to build relationships that aren’t romantic, for every character that ever comes across Daryl? It’s these same hardcore shipper fans that then attack and antagonize the cast and crew when your ship isn’t confirmed or when things don’t go your way. Yes, I’m talking about certain ppl in *that* ship.

I personally really like how ambiguous they leave Daryl’s love life and I hope (out of spite) for you crazed people deprived of any love for the show(s) outside of your ship never get confirmed on who Daryl has a romantic relationship with. To clarify, I can see Daryl having a romantic relationship with quite a few characters, so it’s nice to leave it to the imagination and not be so starved for my ship to be the only confirmed ship. That ruins the point of shipping in fandoms and where it becomes toxic and make you guys look cringe as hell. Thank you and goodnight.

*Not an anti post, and it’s marked as my opinion.* (Added: Clearly some ppl didn’t like my post so let me clarify. I enjoy Caryl. No one said I didn’t. This post isn’t directed towards all Caryl fans. It’s directed towards a handful of toxic fans who abuse the fandom and their ship to hurt others.)

[my-mt-heart]

@indigoraysoflight, I really appreciate you taking a closer look at the audience reception to Diverged and explaining what it really demonstrates from a marketing perspective (18:55-25:18). It's one thing for fans to take what they see on Rotten Tomatoes at face value, but the fact that AMC could write the episode off as a flop is baffling and infuriating, especially if it was one of the arguments made for scrapping the original Caryl spinoff we were all looking forward to (to be clear, I don't know for sure if it was, but it wouldn't surprise me considering some of the unethical things I do know were going on at that point).

Like you said, the episode should've been used as a guide on how to niche down the audience for a spinoff centered on Daryl and Carol and their relationship. Pleasing everyone from the fanboys who "just don't get it" to the antis who review bomb out of spite for Melissa/Carol/Caryl should've never been a concern. Diverged was a hit for Daryl's and Carol's fanbase and that's what matters. That's the core audience the original spinoff could've successfully built on and the spinoff we're getting now still can. Does that mean there's no need to pull in other kinds of viewers? No. It means, as you said, finding the overlap between Caryl fans and lets say fans who love action-adventure or horror or whatever elements can be worked into the concept without splintering the core audience, expecting them to settle for less than what's owed. I fear AMC is falling back on old habits if TBOC promotion so far is anything to go by. They keep trying to appeal to the broader TWDU audience. It. won't. work.

Diverged is not a perfect episode. The core audience doesn't feel the most enthusiastic when Caryl are separated and at odds, but it's a shining example of how to keep us fully engaged despite the separation. The symbolism is rich, particularly the knife. It's a piece of Leah that's been weighing Daryl down until he tells Carol she can keep it. You and @kryptoniancape are right that he doesn't need it anymore, and he's also taking cues from his relationship with Leah, gifting what we see throughout Carol's chaotic day has become a piece of himself because he wants Carol to carry him with her. That positions Daryl and Carol romantically.

The character development is strong, showing us how much Carol is struggling not only with the mistakes she made, but with her self-esteem and the fear of being too broken in this world. Too broken for her community, but more painfully, too broken for Daryl. We even got to see some development for Dog, who served as Daryl's proxy, comforting Carol because he could sense she needed him.

The attention to detail is amazing. I particularly loved hearing Caryl's score play while Carol and Dog were cozying up in the garage, reminding us again how much she missed Daryl. Meanwhile, the parallels ("see you later, asshole") and the callbacks ("be pirates, heck yeah") helped eased the stress of watching Daryl and Carol struggle on their own, showing us very clearly how deeply they're still connected and how much they need each other.

Diverged might be filler, but it is one of my favorite episodes of TWD, one that I'm happy to watch a million times over, especially if I'm having a bad day, so a huge thanks to Angela Kang, the writer, the director, Melissa, and Norman for what they delivered. It felt just right. When I watch TBOC, I'm going to use Diverged as the golden standard for Zabel and Nicotero to meet since they're giving us another separation arc. We'll see what they accomplish because like you mentioned, Shalaka, trust has shifted in the last couple years, so ambiguous subtext without payoff isn't going to fly for me at all.

Thanks for another great podcast episode. Looking forward to more discussion on the potential that Find Me, Diverged, and the Reaper arc had to drive Caryl's story forward.

Nine Lives Two Mics (Caryl Podcast) | New Episode

🎙️Episode #37 - A Deep Dive into Season 10 of TWD (Part 7)🎙️

Join us as we discuss all the #Caryl scenes from 10x21 (Diverged) of #TWD.  

Spotify | Youtube 

[sparksflamesembersashes]

Another thing about the Caryl situ.... What if, in fact, Melissa just got fed up with Caryl? What if Carol Peletier is Melissa McBride's "Misery"? Maybe the character she'd created had become the only thing she was judged by, and she just got tired of it. Not to mention, Melissa seems like a kind hearted and gentle soul IRL, and all the abuse, vitriol, and anger on the Twitter hellscape and elsewhere may have taken a psychological toll on her. Maybe the viciousness (mostly from antis, but not all) had been ripping her up inside for years and she just wanted to walk away from it. Maybe to her, Caryl is the monster they created and she just wanted it dead. You can't blame her. It's no wonder she all but left the social media platform years ago. She obviously hasn't cared to engage with fans on that level for a long time, and having read some of the hateful things people say to or about her or her character, I get it. She's only human, after all. And people get SO emotional about their ships! The pressure must have been insurmountable at times. Maybe she had to walk just to preserve her own sanity. We don't know, and we'll probably never know, because Melissa's personal life and her personal decisions are none of our business, and she is an intensely private person. Can you imagine how she feels if, in fact, this was entirely HER decision and HER choice, and we're all making it sound like she got screwed over by the network and her co-star? How absolutely mortifying would that be? I'm just saying what if... I am inclined to think she got shoved aside, but we just don't know. And if we're wrong, we're not helping her in rising up and protesting the cancellation of the spin-off... we're just prolonging her agony. No one wants to let people down, and the pain and sorrow from the fandom could be crushing her.

As for Norman, yes, he is an entitled male celebrity and he's had that status for a long time. But listen, the guy is engaged, he has a toddler with his fiancee (who is also a hot property in her own right), and who among us wouldn't throw almost everything else to the four winds to spend more time with the people we love and cherish the most? One thing the COVID pandemic has left in its aftermath is a new appreciation for the stuff that's most important in the world. Norman had mentioned in an interview that he'd been working almost constantly for 10 years, and when everybody went into lockdown, I think he discovered the meaning of true family time. Not to mention the risk of death can lead you to re-evaluate your life in general. So if he jettisoned everything to spend more time with Diane and his daughter, I can be pissed at him for doing it, but I can't really judge him over it. I don't have that kind of love in my life, but I imagine if I did, I'd do just about anything to hold onto it as long as possible. Are we really gonna gut the man over choosing his real life family over a fictitious one? I want to (you have no idea), but I won't. Because I get it.

So I'm just sad and grieving, and at first I wanted to protest and deny this new reality, and now I'm just accepting it. Because we will never know why it happened and maybe we shouldn't. And we don't truly know if anyone was cheated out of anything (except us Caryl shippers, of course). At the end of the day, Melissa and Norman are individual human beings with their own lives, and expecting them to bend to the will of a segment of their fans (no matter how large) to compromise their own life goals (and maybe their mental health) in order to maintain fictional characters we've invested way too much of our own time in is, IMO, unrealistic, and more than a little selfish. Maybe that's not the reality, but maybe it is. You know the saying, truth is stranger than fiction. We don't know all the truths here, only bits and pieces that we'll still speculate on for months to come.

I am a Caryl shipper. God help me. And if you accuse me of not shipping Carol, or not stanning Melissa, I will fight your ass to my last breath. But enough is enough. The shit I've seen on Twitter gets worse every day, and people behave so badly when they can hide behind a pseudonym on social media. There's no way to know if I'm hurting or helping by participating. Absent further factual enlightenment, I'm taking the path of least resistance and having a seat on the sidelines. The truth always eventually comes out, but I'm not going to feed any more fires until I know what the truth actually is. And that could take a while... if it happens at all.

I have given so much of my heart and my love to Caryl, and it's been more beautiful and rewarding at times than I could have imagined, but now I'm going to focus that love and my heart on real people, in the real world. Maybe that's exactly what Melissa and Norman have chosen to do. We just don't know. Caryl on, but keep it in perspective. Life is shorter than you think. Make it count.

[gunmetal-ring]

I just read your response to my-mt ask and it was awesome. I do have to agree that no matter how much we tap dance around and how much we soften out anger/tone, certain people will always see us as "toxic," which has become a trigger word for me. Anyone calling me or another Caryler toxic for simply having a concern or question (a very valid one, btw) literally makes my skin crawl. I hate that word now. Anyway, my point is that NR seems incredibly sensitive and that should be respected but not at the cost of ignoring hard facts. Listen, I have a very hard time believing that the show coincidentally decided to film in the exact same place NR will be this summer. Like, that's a world record sized, guiness book of world record coincidence. I think I just wanted him to stand up and say that if they can't make it work for both him and Mel, then he's walking. His silence is deafening and I happen to believe he does have major pull with amc. His silence, dm'ing antis, liking anti tweets that disparage Carylers, searching his name and blocking people who are doing nothing but expressing their sadness and seemingly being fine with Mel and Angela being pushed out of the show they basically created is at the very least in poor taste and deserves discussion. This is the elephant in the room that so many people are actively ignoring all out of an irrational fear.

Thanks! Yeah I mean like I said. In a normal world, in so many other professional fields, you can ask "Hey why did X detail of Y project change?" And get a normal, sane, respectful answer, even if the answer is simply "we'd rather not disclose it for privacy reasons" versus amc's/the media's tactic of "wahhh mean toxic evil carylers".

That's not to say it's ENTIRELY unwarranted - I had the misfortune of reading some truly heinous, disgusting things that so-called fans spewed at norman directly. Totally and completely out of line. And this might be a very unpopular opinion - but if I were in Norman's shoes? Having endured some of the vile shit that my so-called fans said to me about me and my family? I'd probably just not really engage, either. Obviously I'm not saying this about you, but from his perspective, it's gotta be hard to tell if an initially respectful "What happened?" tweet will turn nasty. Honestly, I don't really blame him. And that's not even touching on the possibility that AMC has his shit on legal lockdown.

But it's like I said before. At the end of the day, even if it's all true - even if he walked in to AMC headquarters and said "film in Europe or I'm leaving" - AMC still had the option to say "no, you're just as important to the shoe as Melissa and Kang. Either the 3 of you do it together or we don't do it at all." I agree, he's absolutely AMC's shining star, and he probably does have some pull. Obviously I don't know to how much extent. But nobody except for an AMC executive has the ability to greenlight a Daryl-only spinoff, and force mmb/Kang out of it. Doesn't matter how much pull Norman might have. He can't do that. AMC can.

And I think unfortunately, by directing our very valid frustration (even politely and repectfully) anywhere besides AMC, all its going to do is give everyone the opportunity that they've been looking for: another chance to point fingers, ignore the very real concerns, and stir the pot in the hopes of avoiding accountability.

Sorry I just word vomited all over your ask lol but you know me. Give me a keyboard and a blank screen and I'll take 10 or 15 thousand extra words to make my point.

[wolfwhiteflowers]

about c/e (anti) in s9 and *death (I rambled a lot)

(read more)

The more I think about this ship and the spoilers, im like wtf and bummed. Idc about s9 and the show anymore, but in some ways I still care. I know I won’t watch it. But gosh it’s all in the web. eeek.

So, looking at the 9x01 promo pic of C/E and talking out loud what will happen in s9, to my sis, is like OMG this is real and it’s so dumb and I don’t like it.

 At first it’s so hard to look at that pic. But it’s fine now I guess cos I know s9 for me is TWD AU canon story and say s8 was the ending. I know for sure that I don’t wanna see s9 at all. ok. There’s too many dislikes stuff in the show.

I keep thinking was I being delusional about CE might be a couple in s7 and s8? And in some ways it doesn’t matter because I just want Caryl to happen and just be them till the end. So, I just disagree what the writers wanna do. I don’t think I was being delusional or whatever. I think CE relationship was similar to Carol with Tyreese and Morgan. I didn’t see any hints to romance in those two seasons and plus there some soulmatey Caryl scenes during those seasons too. Like Daryl wanting to protect Carol from Richard and his talk to Morgan. There were other Carol- relationships going on in s7-8, that I didn’t think CE will happen. Especially how in s8 finale where the writers were like they didn’t know what to do with Carol and her story. No ship foreshadowing and she looked like she just forgot TF and moved to Kingdom for Henry. It was really disappointing for me as a Carol fan. I don’t know what to expect for her in s9. Is she team Richonn3 or team Maggie? idk. 

So I knew s9 will have a time jump because of the comics and not the show/finale cos they suck, so I figured with the uncertainty on Carol in s8 finale, I’m gonna not know and what to expect for her in s9/timejump. So yeah I figured there may be a chance of a sudden ship - C/E happening. Which it is C/E is happening. It’s hard for me to see why tho. I feel C/E were becoming friends and equals-emotionally,like Carol respecting him and not shooing him off. (it’s like other friendships she had with others). But ugh me as a shipper, I don’t like rushed ships..or I guess I don’t feel it’s enough, believable from the writers that C/E is possible for me to ship them. idk I just want Caryl. Also, it’s like odd to me in a way like on TWD is a slow show so Idk how to take C/E in the story. If it’s The 100, I understand. It’s a quick show and they all do more romances. We don’t get to see why Carol wanted to be with E be together. It’s all off-screen. One thing I’m ok with CE is that E isn’t a bad boy with no redeeming qualities/growth. (like my other notps..or like if Carol and Negan happened and Negan is still s7-8 Negan.) But still it’s rushed and I guess I don’t like guys/love interest who is always charming and always on an act?

Idk yet how CE will go in s9. Is it to be like the next stable couple, love triangle, or another Carol’s crying moment?

It’s like Idk Carol anymore. Idc that she smiled in the pic, and also there’s no such thing as a “real Carol fan” wtf I don’t wanna suffer watching a show with bad writing. That’s so cult-minded. It’s just a story for your entertainment.

Why does it seem like CE shippers are full of R*chonne stans that hate Caryl? lol I know I should stop looking at ship fandom wank. Sigh why do shippers/stans generalize and gotta pick one ship to team up. Ok ok I kno not all R*chonners ship other ships the same(me). I still see some Caryl + Richonn3 shippers :)

I noticed some CE shippers uh looking for drama? and saying some Carylers are racist for not shipping CE or wanting E dead. Like ok yeah there’s a possibility there’s some racist fans out there(so then block them)...and some fans not sensitive to the E fans. Some just dislike or disinterested with his character. (like some fans want Judith dead because she’s boring. But to say that in the real world scenario is disturbing!) 

Anyways, I just wanna say there’s a small part of a reason why some Carylers want E dead is because of the comic-E storyline.  Comic-E isn’t a main character and he dies when the whisperers/Alpha comes along which is what happens in s9 timeline-wise. It’s part speculation and ukno TWD is a deadly show and sometimes go by the comics. So, I and Carylers think E is still there in the show for Carol’s pain, and for his comicbook death-which I think that moment is like one of the biggest deaths/story’s key moments in the comics. So I guess some Carylers bluntly are saying they want E dead- they want this plot over with. ...If E were meant to die in s9 then I wish he died in s8 when it’s about his character’s story arc and not about Carol’s arc.

 Carol/Carylers just want Carol be more in the major storylines again and with TF again.  Whatever..if CE shippers/haters wanna call us racists or worse, then ok then what? We’re hated or called crazy anyways~there’s still always ship wars and crazy people out there. idk just go follow good people/friends. 

Now who knows how s9/TWD show will go on like. S9 filming isn’t done yet. Idk if E wouldn’t have this death or not. There’s so many changes and yet same-ish stuff from the comics. Just waiting till TWD feels like a spin-off Caryl(maybe even if Caryl go canon in the end) show, for me. 

We’ll know more about s9 is like and to decide worth watching when 9x01 airs..from reading spoilers or somewhere. Like the CE ship storyline, could be a sign of a love triangle, Caryl is doomed forever, or whatever. Sigh.

[superleeleehipster]

After reading some of the 7x13 spoilers as well as some of your reactions, I figured I’d put in my two cents on what’s happening in hopes of helping everyone sort out their initial feelings.

I’m going to point out some negatives for a bit but I’ll try and make it hopeful at the end!

SPOILER WARNING (under the cut)

So the recent spoilers about Carol and 7x13 sort of highlight a still ongoing problem with TWD in general, and that is a huge issue with plot holes and missed opportunities. 

It’s not just a shipper problem, for I can name tons of missed opportunities for Caryl. It’s a whole TWD problem, especially when it comes to relationships. I remember reading a good post from someone (can’t remember who) that talked about the lack in the ability to write good romance in the TWD, and it’s true. Most of the romances in the show haven’t had enough build up, or had mixed signals that threw us off so that when it did happen, we all threw our hands up like, ‘what?’.

But back to the missed opportunities. I just want to show you a few of plot holes that are not even Caryl related that show there’s problems with lazy writing:

1) We didn’t get to see Tara’s reaction to Denise. That whole relationship was kind of odd to begin with, for without any clues or hints, Denise suddenly kisses Tara after saving the other dude’s life. Then they became a loving couple... felt a bit forced and random.

2) We never found out whether or not Daryl read the ‘Survivors of Child Abuse’ book he found in ‘Consumed’. Yeah we found that out recently when one of the fans asked Norman and he said he did. But we had to find that out outside of the show, which is a bad sign.

3) Richonne canon moment was a bit sudden and surprising, and not necessarily in a good way. We found out from Danai (not the show) that there was a two month gap between 6x09 & 6x10. Soooo many missed opportunities within that time frame to show where Richonne’s relationship was heading. So when it did become canon, it almost felt forced. Like suddenly they’re making out, making love, and then holding hands the next day like they’ve been doing that all along. Don’t get me wrong, I love Richonne and they’re a powerful couple, but I felt bad for the shippers b/c it felt very anticlimactic.

4) We didn’t get to see Maggie and Daryl’s reunion. Yeah they’re supposed to have a talk in 7x14, but why not have both, ya know. I’m sure there were sections of 7x08 you could’ve thrown out in order to see the reunion, something the GA would rather watch but no...

5) We only got a fraction of character background for Glenn before he died. We knew he was a pizza man, we knew his mom used to cook good meat (3x01, when he said just like my mom used to cook it), and we knew the people that had an impact on him. But we got nothing else. He was an original character and he only got a fraction of background as the others did.

There’s so many more plot holes I can name but I’ll be merciful and stop while I’m at it. And don’t even get me started on missed opportunities for Caryl itself. GAH! 

All of these examples are a good indication of not only the not so good cycle that the TWD keeps repeating, but also where their focus truly lies: Their main focus is to tell the broader picture of the storyline (aka Negan vs Rick & TF) by using random/pointless plots for our characters in order to maneuver the story to where he wants it. And the character arcs are suffering b/c of it.

A very good example of OOC would be this Carol self-torture arc, which (I hope to God) will end next week. I know she’s going to fight, according to spoilers, but I hope she is indeed better by the time 7x16 roles around b/c I’m tired of seeing Carol miserable. She needs to be better dammit!! But I think @leonstrenton is right when she says that Carol will get better but it’ll probably be very unsatisfactory for the viewers b/c Gimps only put this arc in her story so that she was out of the way from Negan... AGAIN, THE MAIN STORYLINE IS WHAT MATTERS TO HIM.

Also, according to 7x13 spoilers, Carol doesn’t go back to Alexandria immediately after she finds out about Glenn. Now that doesn’t make any sense b/c Carol was literally on her hands and knees during 7x10 asking about her family. Now it just seems OOC for her (credit for this valid point goes to the lovely @ocean514)

See, if I were a good writer, I’d make her go back to the Kingdom, make sure Zeke agrees to fight, and then go back to Alexandria to tell them that the Kingdom is joining them... but again, MISSED OPPORTUNITY!!

Another good example of a character arc being affected is not being able to see Glenn react to killing his first live person in the entire series. That would’ve been really interesting to see how it would affect his character, but they apparently had no time to do that b/c the Negan showdown was approaching. 

Let’s have one more shall we. Abraham and Sasha’s whole... relationship? Holy crap that couple had so little couplish moments that it was hard to say if they had even kissed... b/c we never saw them kiss! It was implied they had sex I know, but it was probably the most random, rushed, and short couple I’ve ever seen on the show.

So this plot hole issue isn’t just with Caryl, it’s with everything that’s going on in TWD. So take comfort in the fact that it’s not just a problem with writing for Caryl, it’s a much bigger issue than just those two.

Now for some hope for Carylers:

I am a Caryl shipper till the day I die, and my mantra for any kind of couple I want to happen is this: If they are both alive, there is still a chance!

We are going to have to deal with some hate after 7x13 b/c people will see the Carol and Ezekiel scene with Ben’s little brother as a foreshadowing to a ‘family’ moment. Personally I feel like this is Carol making a step to coming back to herself. She’s willingly helping Ben’s brother, trying to comfort him with his loss, which is a HUGE breakthrough in how she feels about helping kids if you think about her history. And I’m glad she’s making that step.

Another issue with the Carzekiel business is that for whatever reason, when two characters of the opposite sex share screen time, it automatically mean they will be a couple. Khary Payton himself had said he was surprised at how quickly people began shipping Carzekiel, even though they only shared a small amount of screen time together. Honestly, I’m glad Carol’s spending time with Zeke b/c she needs a good friend, and Zeke is an awesome dude, so why not strike up a friendship? 

Shared screen time does not = canon couple! ( @thaliasandy I know you’ve said this before)

Caryl will go canon eventually, it’s just that eventually is the keyword at this point. Will there be missed opportunities to show that? Of course yes, there already has been. Will it feel anticlimactic or out of the blue? There’s a possibility of that. But here’s the thing that we can look forward to:

Whether we get subtle/small canon moment, or (for the love of god, please) larger canon scene between them, Norman and Melissa will kick it out of the ballpark. It didn’t matter that they barely had any dialogue during 7x10, they don’t need it, for you can see how well they understand each other without even talking. It would be nice as the GA to hear what they’re thinking, but I’ll take lack of dialogue for a beautiful first kiss. 

Don’t fret guys. I know it is very hard to keep shipping this couple, especially now with all the hate going around. I’ve honestly never seen an anti group so adamant at shutting Caryl down so badly... I don’t get why they hate it so much... but people are nuts. 

But don’t pay them any attention. Do what Mel wants us to do and just get along with each other and celebrate the amazingness that is Carol, Daryl, and Caryl. Friendly debates? Sure! Hateful/nutty anons? Just delete the message and ignore them, for they got nothing better to do than to feed off of our insecurities that we unfortunately have from waiting this long.

Caryl on guys!

[sleepingfancies]

1-27 on all those asks pls

- For the Unpopular Opinions list

This got hella longgggg, so response is under the cut!

1. What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

- Caryl (Carol/Daryl, The Walking Dead) by far. Never got it. Never saw it. Never been a fan.

2. Are there any fandom OTPs that you only see as BroTPs?

- Probably Caryl, again. Idk, I just always saw them as more mother/son or brother/sister than romantic couple. I like their friendship, I just don’t see how it would turn romantic and don’t particularly want it to either.

3. Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

- Oof big yes. Not so much because I didn’t ship what they shipped or anything, but it was about how they treated people in the fandom. They were either extremely rude to people who shipped something else, or kept putting anti-xyz ship in a pro-xyz tag and starting drama and discourse for no reason other than starting drama and discourse. Shit’s exhausting, yo.

4. Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Is it a popular OTP?

- Jonerys (Jon/Daenerys, Game of Thrones). Highkey a NOTP for me, but highkey a popular fandom OTP.

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

- God where do I fucking start. Bellarke (Bellamy/Clarke, The 100), Destiel (Dean/Castiel, Supernatural), Jonerys, Mare/Cal (Red Queen), Bughead (Betty/Jughead, Riverdale) -- there’s deadass a whole list that’s way too long to get into now.

6. Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?

- Maven/Mare (Red Queen), and Richonne (Rick/Michonne, The Walking Dead) namely. It’s not often that I change my mind about pairings once I’ve decided how I feel about them, one way or the other.

7. Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?

- Riverdale and Supernatural. The Walking Dead probably after this season. Game of Thrones is on thin fucking ice but we’ll see.

8. Have you received anon hate? What about?

- Oof okay well I’ve received quite a bit just very recently for liking Detroit: Become Human. The creator is highkey trash and the plot and allegory are both VERY iffy in some places. But I like the characters so idk. I’ve also received anon hate for liking Maven in the Red Queen series. Got quite a lot for saying I wasn’t feeling Caryl once.

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

- Daenerys. Cannot fucking stand her. I used to really like her, but the show just slaughtered her and eviscerated her corpse. It’s horrifying. She’s hypocritical, cold, powerhungry, and an entitled brat. I also really hate Tony Stark in the Marvel fandom. I can’t deal with how they’re always doing the “poor sad rich bby genius fucked up again but it’s okay bc he’s trying to fix it by blowing more stuff up!!!” shit. Like oh my god am I supposed to feel sorry for that bitch?? Half the stuff that happens is his fault!! So I don’t!!! Oh and Negan in The Walking Dead, for obvious reasons. Fuck him.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

- God...... take ANYONE from The Walking Dead or Riverdale and I’ll say I hate their arc. The arc I tend to think of first when I think of vehemently disliking arcs is Negan’s “redemption” in The Walking Dead. Fuck that shit. That’s all I can say about it.

11. Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

- BIG MOOD for Chris Manawa in Fear The Walking Dead and Sansa Stark in Game of Thrones. Like......... that’s my son and daughter respectively and they deserve the Whole World. I gravitate towards them both for the same reasons: they’re characters with very strong intellectual skills who are perceived as weak or useless by the fandom for displaying realistic symptoms of trauma rather than hardening up into a badass after being emotionally bulldozed.

12. Is there an unpopular arc you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

- Maven getting a second chance. Idk man I know I come across like a highkey bitch but I’m actually really empathetic and I was just never convinced Maven was truly so far gone that there was no hope of reeling him back in. I think a lot of what he did was dependent on his mother’s manipulations and I’m not a big fan of the “an abused person will in turn inevitably become an abuser” narrative.

13. Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

- Clementine is bisexual and that doesn’t change no matter who you romance her with in The Walking Dead Game. The option to date either still exists, therefore her bisexuality is canon. Change my mind lmao.

14. Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

- People need to learn how to be respectful.

15. Unpopular opinion about a show?

- Riverdale is Rivertrash.

16. If you could change anything in the aforementioned show, what would you change?

- It ever being written.

17. Instead of XYZ happening, I would’ve made ABC happen:

- Instead of Game of Thrones turning into a terrifying hellscape wherein Alfie Allen has still somehow not won a single Emmy, I would’ve ended the show with the Starks reclaiming Winterfell, killing the Boltons, and Cersei poisoning herself after losing her last living child bc the real Cersei would never stand for outliving her children tbh.

18. Does not shipping something “popular” mean you’re in denial/biased?

- .... no? Absolutely not.

19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

- This goes for pretty much all of them: the rampant disrespect towards each other in the fandom. I really couldn’t care less if you shipped Mare/Cal or Caryl or whatever the fuck, just don’t be rude about it? Tag things correctly and don’t attack others for having a different idea.

20. What is the purest ship in fandom?

- The one that comes to mind is Josephine/Inquisitor in Dragon Age bc honestly..... that romance was so fucking pure and wholesome.

21. What are your thoughts on crack ships?

- I mean....? I’m usually willing to entertain anything once.

22. Popular character you hate?

- Tony Stark. Negan. Daryl Dixon. Cal Calore. Daenerys. The entire Core Four of Riverdale, specifically Betty. Gavin in DBH. I mean. It’s a list.

23. Unpopular character you love?

- Maven Calore. Sansa Stark. Markus in DBH (I don’t think he’s actually unpopular, per se, just not as popular as Kara or Connor). Mantis in the MCU. Another list.

24. Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not?

- I would probably tell anyone to check out the Red Queen series and honestly DBH. I know both (especially DBH) have their problematic sides, but I think both can be unwoven and analyzed analytically. Doing so brings out the best in their messages and highlights the issues they tackle in racism, classism, institutionalized bias, individuality, free will, and rapid world changes. Or maybe I’m just a nerd who’s thought too hard about both those fandoms.

25. How would you end XXX/would you change the ending of XXX?

- I’ve said before I’d change Red Queen’s ending a bit, for multiple reasons. I’d prolly have lit TWD and Riverdale scripts on fire by now if I could’ve.

26. Most shippable character?

- Bucky or Loki in the MCU. Those bois can get it with anyone.

27. Least shippable character?

- Like.... anyone in TWD at this point. I’m tired lmao

[wolfwhiteflowers]

‘TWD and The fumbling dead’

*anti OUAT and I’m a Neal fan.

- check my tag /tagged/*twd for other ranty posts of mine.

*I’m assuming Rick and Maggie will die in s9. And perhaps Michonne too.

*posts about Michonne too and fandom stuff

vvvv

Since the news of AL and LC will leave the show in s9, and that Daryl will become the leading character, I want to say TWD ended in s8 for me. I don’t think I will watch the show live in s9 and on. It depends..but I know it’s not TWD to me.

It’s weird but after calming down a bit, I guess, I’m starting to think maybe I would follow the story in s9b or after Rick’s death. I’m feeling better because I realized we’re all into this together experiencing this. Fans could keep watching TWD or not, we’re still part of the TWD fandom and we’re still appreciate the good times. Like other fandoms, in old shows, some fans still make fanart and fanfictions. Stories are still with us. We’re still a fandom.

Some could still follow TWD show in s9, and take it seriously and some could like hate-watch it and I guess just make the rest like some AU fic. What is it like TWD-after Rick’s death/no Grimes boys (main protagonists).

I could watch s9b and I’ll just say it’s the spin-off show and ignore Rick’s death. s9 and on, is Dixon spin-off show. But the thing is if and only if Caryl will be/is canon and Carol still be interesting (doesn’t only interact with Kingdom folks)/good writing that I would be into it. I think it’s because Carol is my top fave of the show and I love Caryl, so yeah. I would love it if s9b and on was like a Caryl show. However, I don’t think I would watch it live. I’ll just look at gifs and videos.

Idk. s9 and on, better set the tone differently for me to watch it or for me to care. Ugh I just wish it’s a spin-off show. I noticed from other people’s reactions, it’s hard for everyone to decide to quit or not. We’re all invested in this show.

So I could just keep watching s9, (caryl still caryl-y) and just ‘hate-watch’ the alternate universe of TWD with no Grimes boys. Watch Michonne grieve, Maggie dies too(?), and idk Michonne leaves with Judith to somewhere. No more Grimes in the TWD. Then it’s like I guess it’s fully a Dixon show..till the end. Whatever the ending is. But the real TWD ended in s8, imo, or whenever people want it to be.

*Ugh I don’t think TWD can feel different. Everyone’s gonna mention Rick’s death(?) and Michonne’s grieving and leaving(?), and Maggie’s death(?).Everything is still gonna follow what TWD was. S9 is crazy.

-With the show OUAT, Neal/Baefire was fave and others were inconsistent and the writing was always meh. It was easier to just stop it after Neal’s death. Plus, notp and just bad confusing writing. Henry interacting with Hook was the worst. But hey I’m over it. It’s not in my headcanon story. I get what others feel about Judith being taken care of from other characters/Daryl. But hey TWD imo is already done in s8.

Why TWD ended in s8. They killed off Carl in s7.  (or writers didn’t know/idk show business) I thought they killed Carl off because they want Michonne to stay longer and live past the comic-Andrea death moment -after whisperer war. I was ok with Carl’s death because TWD also follows Rick’s story. So I figured TWD would end with Rick, instead of like what the comics might go..end with Carl. Happy ending or not. TWD tv show should end with Rick and that the ending be very meaningful. So with AL news, I doubt we’re gonna get a satisfying ending to Rick’s story in s9a 6(?) episodes, while the show keeps going on in s9 with 16 episodes in total. The show keep going on and Daryl as main character. So, I just don’t like how it is. S9 is all AU to me. #tfd twd.

I’m assuming Rick and Maggie dies, well I just have low expectations from TWD writers. (LC is leaving too) I speculate in s9, they die like based on the gory comic moment. Killed by Alpha (whisperer) and their heads on pikes. It’s like the easiest way to just end their stories. But it’s also cheap and not meaningful. I also speculate that Ezekiel will die too. There’s like this parallel with communities’ leaders dying (Rick and Maggie), so I think Ezekiel will be part of that. Idk about Oceanside and Sanctuary. (Cyndie and Rosita and they will die too?) Unless something else happens and maybe Rick and Maggie’s exit of the show will be different. * IDK ..if Rick just goes missing then TWD still can be TWD but ..on a break/Daryl’s show. We just wait till Rick comes back ..in finale to end TWD.

So, S9 is all AU to me. The best AU version on without Rick/ s9, is to have Michonne leading the group and be the main character, and on the rest of s9/or and on, is Michonne and Judith’s adventures. (It would be like TWDG Lee and Clementine or any parent-figure and child stories). But it’s not gonna be that or that what it seems like rn. It’s Daryl who leads the show.

*If Danai only gonna be there till end of s9. Then I have the is AU/headcanon for Michonne. Rick didn’t die but gone missing (ep 6 or whenever he’s done) and then MIchonne and Judith deal with it throughout s9. They search for Rick, and the end of s9 (or whenever Danai leaves the show) Michonne...being like comic-Michonne, Michonne and Judith go on a boat to search for Rick. So then The Grimes are outta of the TWD show. If TWD got s10 and on, then they finally be a spin-off show. I wish we got a good TWD ending and then a spinoff. And if they want to in the series finale, the Grimes reunited and they came back to finish the TWD story.

Michonne can be very much like comic-Michonne s9/TWD AU. losing loves, searching for someone (Rick/Elodie), and my headcanon of finding him -like in whenever TWD series finale will happen. Idk just something I thought of recently. She might be like comic-Michonne. But who knows what s9 is like and I just doubt it would be satisfying.

-----------------

why not michonne & why Daryl? how long ? and TWD=Rick. (why not Carol/Maggie/Michonne?)

-First off, I think when AMC or the rumor say Daryl is leading the TWD show now. I think they meant Daryl will be the main character. It’s doesn’t matter who leads Team Family. There’s different communities and their leaders anyways.

I would want Michonne to lead team family and being the leading character of TWD. She’s already a leader in ASZ and she’s like the last Grimes that do stuff. (not Judith) But I think she gonna leave the show soon. Danai’s contract ends in s9. So I think she’s gonna leave/die in s9. It’s really rough with TWD story. Grimes die and Michonne too? What about Judith? It’s all really depressing.

Also, it’s a weird feeling on that when Rick’s gone, I want Michonne and Judith gone too. TWD is all about the Grimes boys, imo, and I want Michonne gone too because I don’t want to see her mourn again. I think in a way it would be better to have all the Grimes gone so then TWD s9B can truly feel like a spin-off show and distant from the real TWD/Grimes show. Maybe it’s easier with Daryl to be the main character then. Ukno? He’s not a Grimes. It’s easier to distant from the Grimes story. Whatever, I say s9B is all AU.

Idk about Judith. If TWD really thinks now the main point of the story is always about Judith, then so be it ..whatever. ….Then they should make it more about Judith and it makes sense to have Michonne there. But …Daryl is the lead so…idk just have the Grimes go on a trip. sigh. It’s always about Rick and/or Carl.

But it’s weird for me to think of wanting Michonne (and Judith) to leave TWD s9, because characterwise Michonne can have her own story and stuff. Make it TWD s9B the Michonne spin-off show. She can do her thing and her story isn’t about Rick. #Girlpower.  But Michonne is so involved in the Grimes story and ….also I feel like it really messes up Michonne’s story arc too,imo or that I don’t like the arc. She started the story as losing her lover and son and then learning to love again with new lover and son(main characters!). She got a new family and leading ASZ. Now she loses them again. It’s so depressing and feels like pointless. It’s like WTF is her ending to her character’s story now?

…Michonne raising Judith? It’s still not good enough for me….still feels AU story.Judith is a baby and we always think of TWD about the Grimes boys. uhh. Idk. It would be better if it’s like Lee and Clementine (idk like 6 yo) situation. Ok ..it does sound better than the Dixon spin off show. But it’s all depressing to see Michonne all alone…Always a reminder that Grimes boys are dead. And Judith doesn’t do much or that we won’t be able to see Michonne and Judith leading the show (unless we get another big time jump.) Heck this sounds cool. But it’s not gonna be like that....

Anyways, I don’t think Danai will stay that much longer in the show. AMC is already saying Daryl is the lead. I guess one of the reasons its Daryl because he really separates from the Grimes family/TWD story, the whole Daryl vs Negan arc,…and obviously he’s popular and $$$. blah