#but you will not sway me on this matter

[narikill]

aughdhshfjjsjcjdjfjsbgsknfjs <- leshy in this art probably

[peliginspeaks]

Listen, I'm sorry to the people who draw Veils in torn/bloody robes because of the whole Vake thing but you're simply wrong. Do you think Veils would Ever go out like that. Do you think it doesn't have fifteen changes of clothes ready immediately, with options depending on the day and occasion, to climb into when it comes back from killing things. Of course it does. Veils is getting home, taking a shower in the Bazaar, putting on a new perfectly clean robe with accent panels and silk trim, and then dabbing 1 (one) tasteful bloodstain on the hem of it with a claw because it's arrogant and it thinks it can get away with it. What is a Veils if it's not serving cunt. Of course it is.

[incesthemes]

"their relationship is romantic" "their relationship is familial" "their relationship is platonic" you're thinking too narrow. their relationship goes beyond labels. the family is inherently queer. their platonic love is romantic. the erotic is familial. each one is the other and the other is them

[polish-art-tournament]

a couple more artists who were submitted that i don't think qualify or i'm not sure about but would appreciate some feedback from people who might know more about them or have Opinions:

Alexandra Exter - russian? born in białystok, studied in kyiv, painted in russia and france

Fernand Léger - i guess his wife was polish (belariussian?) but apart from this i can't think of any reason he should be in

Elisa Bloch - born in wrocław when it was german, emigrated to france as a kid

Olga Chernysheva - come on, she is just straight up russian????

Ryan Gander - british but the submitted sculpture is exhibited in poland

Theodor Erdmann Kalide - german, lived in the prussian partition, the sculpture submitted is in bytom

Theodore Roszak - born in poznań, emigrated to the US as a kid

Anastasia Rydlevskaya - belarussian, lives and works in gdańsk

Fanny Rabel - born in lublin, emigrated to paris then mexico as a child

additionally:

Wit Stwosz - no dobra, niemiec, ale jest na tyle ikoniczny i w powszechnym mniemaniu spolszczony, że raczej go zaakceptuję

anonimowy probably niemiecki autor ołtarza św. jadwigi śląskiej - primo anonimowy, secundo ołtarz od 600 lat jest w polsce, więc też zaakceptujemy

Paweł Merwart - kinda sorta probably more french than polish but we had him in the previous tournament and also his biography and his work slap so i want him in the tournament

[bumblingbabooshka]

[TUVOKTOBER: Day 6] Based on this line of dialogue:

[rebelband]

Have you ever drawn a personality swap with the group? Or maybe even like an opposite personality thing. Idk I was imagining k k with a bit of attitude

mnn... I doodle full-on body swaps (x) once in a blue moon, but I don't usually tend to sit too long on personality swaps?

here's two hypothetical configurations though (based off my own interpretations for convenience). these keep their main trait (energetic/smooth/silly) and alter their personalities solely.

swt is a worker and a perfectionist; it is also, well. sweet! but has a lot of drive while being a bit stubborn. cpn would be more strong-willed (while still avoiding physical conflict), and he'd be the sort to try and work to avoid any feelings/thoughts. cks would be less easygoing, but they'd still be excitable! (their jokes, unfortunately, land a lot more flat this way.) they'd have more priority on work than play.

cpn cares about appearance a lot and maintaining things (or getting new, better things). swt's never been much to care about its looks, but this verse would make them a bit more worried about how cube-like it is and try to smooth those edges down. cks would be the kind to act like they're flirting/being deceptive, but it's all just to lead it into some sort of joke or silly prank. basically they're just more lowkey (and self-conscious).

cks is a huge people pleaser that doesn't want anyone to fret over them and fairly passive when it comes to taking lead. in this case... swt would want to make sure everyone (and it means Everyone) has fun; they also have far too much energy and not enough time to do everything that comes to mind. if they didn't have enough dropped drafts already, well, now they have so many more... cpn would be the guy that tries to play cute/cool in a funny way, not a "hey mama what's up!" way, and would Not have many issues with their identity.

...at least, the configuration I like more is scc but one position to the left (swt with cpn's, cpn with cks's); that's just me being biased. I could talk about the dynamics of both kinds in another post, maybe...?

and an opposite personality verse sounds interesting, but I'm not sure how that'd go...

is it that sweet becomes less brave and willing to fight whereas cap'n takes on those attributes? k_k being more straightforward and honest than they are silly (e.g., "I'm thirsty" when wounded)? no clue... I don't really enjoy this one too much since it takes too much away from them when it's exaggerated in such a way............. kinda.

[toytulini]

god the ants make it so fucking hard to be tolerant. im really, really trying to be better about it and chill out

but they really love to fucking test that

[totally-femme]

<3

[californiaquail]

i know some white supremacist catholics who i'm certain are absolutely losing their tiny minds over the trump vance combination

[drifloonz]

steven/mocha is canon

[aknolan]

I think part of the discourse here really stems more from what kind of interpretation of RWBY's story you take away from the whole thing.

Your viewpoint is predicated on the idea that RWBY must completely prove the gods wrong, or it would be a disservice to the story's themes.

To me, however, a large part of the story is kind of a complicated mix, in that the villains and antagonists are PARTIALLY correct, but the issue is how they twist a kernel of truth into a means of abuse and control over domains that they don't really have any right to claim control over.

The Gods ARE correct that Life and Death shouldn't be treated carelessly, but they are consistently shown to be hypocrites who use it as a means to enforce their power over others.

Adam and Sienna WERE correct about the state of Faunus, but the former twisted the cause into satiating his own bloodlust and petty egotism.

Ironwood WAS correct that Salem needed to be known as a villain publicly in order to better combat her, but he refused to acknowledge that he wasn't that important and was twisted by Atlas' pro-conformity and fascistic culture into believing that he knew what was best for the world, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Jacques WAS correct that Ironwood was becoming as much of a danger to his country, but that was fueled out of self-serving greed and his own gain.

The recurring point that RWBY tends to follow is that the Villains are not people without a point, but that they use the point as a means to enforce unjust control and power over others.

But it doesn't make them completely wrong.

And the honest reality is; I think Penny not coming back is not inherently an incorrect or thematically wrong way of doing things, because ultimately she already PROVED that the Gods are full of shit.

She came back to life TWICE despite being killed.

The Gods have already been proven WRONG.

Her final death is just proof of something else; that even when you do everything right, even when you do manage to defy the expectations and possibilities laid out before you, bad shit can still happen anyways. It's literally what happened with Ozma dying from illness after he and Salem got together.

What happened to her last life was not the result of the story going against it's themes; it was just simply the result of poor choices on Penny's part and plain bad luck. That's it.

And Choices are just as much of a theme in the story, and poor choices or lack of choices are too.

The key is not in proving the Gods completely wrong, but in wresting control away from them so that THEY can't be the ones to dictate terms. They are NOT the arbiters of everything despite what the God of Light believes.

But that doesn't mean life and death will cease to matter. It'll still exist as the tragedy in someone's life.

I don't really disagree with you on like, 95% of this honestly.

I think it's helpful to recognize though, the wider context of the argument. In the simplest form, the fact that I am in that post responding to someone making the claim that Salem was at fault for what happened with the gods. So yeah, my argument there is about how she wasn't wrong for trying to get Ozma back, and Ruby wouldn't be wrong either for trying to get Penny back.

And yeah, life and death shouldn't be treated carelessly, but that's why it's important that this happens in Fairytale Bullshit Land, where Penny's Magic Aura Bullshit Body may have landed. These are very unique circumstances! This isn't gonna end up being a repeatable situation. They are incapable of treating life and death carelessly, and I'm sure that if they manage to bring Penny back with them, there will be a cost.

And the point of the gods has not been refuted yet. Not on screen.

Penny's revival happened off screen, and on the technicality that she wasn't actually dead. She was still on Remnant. Her core was intact, and that's why she could come back. Had she been completely destroyed, she would have been truly very dead.

And the situation with Ambrosius? She wasn't dead.

I consider this cheating death, rather than really being a proper "brought back from dying". Even disregarding that though... it's our protagonists who need to refute the villains.

Pietro revived Penny, team rwby cheated with the staff of creation. But Ruby making the active choice to bring Penny back would be a very clear message that she understands Salem. No moral high ground to keep there, on Salem's original problem with the gods. And when you have an unkillable enemy, that is desperately needed.

I also don't think Penny needs to die to drive home the message you put in bold. Plenty of things went wrong already, like losing both of the relics, and the "one way trip to Vacuo".

Lastly though, as long as the comparison between ruby/penny and salem/ozma exists, the elephant in the room remains as well.

If the comparison holds up... it's reasonable to interpret Ruby and Penny as romantically in love with each other, and then we get back to the writers wanting to avoid playing into the bury your gays trope.

Really though, a lot of what you say about complicated mixes of right and wrong are things I agree with. I also can absolutely see the sort of themes someone could go for with permadead Penny. But I take issue with it on several grounds, including that it feels a lot like fridging (except that the protagonist is also a woman this time, adding some bury your gays flavour). And, you know, I just like Penny and would like to think better of the writers than the fuck-up for her story that is the last three episodes of v8.

And that's just talking about the thematic stuff, not even the allusions or the things that don't add up.

[deus-ex-mona]

why can’t this week just end alreadyyyyyyy

[badolmen]

Do not underestimate my ability to seduce* shitty white guys with my good innocent Irish Catholic girl swag.

*force them to confront their biases and reconsider their political ideologies

[orcelito]

Ykno it's interesting seeing ppl being like "how is Akechi/Joker winning..." literally most of our fandom is like. Insane lmao. Just bc you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't influential for polls

[swingstep]

Please drop mrd theatre au lore????

OH HOO BOY so. genuinely did not remember i never explained that au huh ksjdngd its been a hot minute since ive messed with that one, but lets see what i can dig up for it. as a disclaimer, its kind of an... abstract au, very rough around the edges as well. dont expect it to be anything too concrete WAHAHA

anyhow. tldr:   the mrd theatre au is exactly what it sounds like: the plot of the game described entirely through the lens of a theater production! alternately referred to as the dance au, because... its a musical! major events are described through dance, each piece pushing the story forward with the power of music and expression. literally-- the story won’t move on without it. starring mad rat as the lead role, rat god as the director, and heart as... That One Guy, Sure!

    the abstraction kicks in in its presentation though-- it's told through the framing of a stage-- however, the story itself is Real to the characters. their world is real, and as characters, they see it as such. to everyone else, it's exactly as its namesake: a play. the term "actor" and "character" go hand in hand, practically synonyms. actors are the characters. the narrative is their world. all in all: the theatre au is an inspection of the meaning of Reality and Perception, the meaning of what it is to be a Character or a Person, and a play on Stories and Roles. more under the cut.

---------------

  As it does in canon, the narrative starts with Mad Rat waking up, and Rat God telling him his situation. Y'know, he died, she's giving him a second chance, etc etc. However, she Specifically tells him that he is, in fact, a character in a play and, as someone outside of the narrative, she knows what to do and what paths to follow. As long as he followed her, he'd be able to make it to the end of his story a-ok, and finally get the ending he deserved!

  In the beginning, Rat God starts out with a whole musical number as she narrates the scene (to both the audience and Mad Rat) to catch him up to speed on where he is, who she is, and why he died. As she finishes, hands off the (metaphorical) mic to Mad Rat to get a word in for his debut scene. Unfortunately, Mad Rat, having just recovered from a terminal case of Being Dead, Does Not In Fact Have The Nicest Voice. Seeing this, Rat God quickly interrupts and redirects to another option: Dance. Which is where a major quirk comes in: every character has a specialized dance style!

  Rat gods style is tap/swing, which is what the intro scene Truly is! It's Rat God introducing Mad Rat to the concept of The Show in a duet swing performance. Specifically, in this performance, Rat God takes the lead role in this one for several reasons: 1) She's Extra and Likes Showmanship. 2) She's ensuring Mad Rat goes in the direction he's supposed to-- making sure he's following along. And 3) She's effectively re-teaching Mad Rat how to move after. Y'know. Being Dead. Swing is a heavily motion-focused and improvisational dance: Mad Rat Does Not Know How To Dance. However, Rat God is good enough at it that she can take the lead and turn his stumbles and missteps into motion and flair. It's essentially the tutorial stage!

  The narrative is pretty much the same through the first third of the game, more or less. Mad Rat meets Heart, who doesn't really Dance but rather just cheers him on, and they begin "travelling" together, with periodical "intermissions" where Rat God, off to the side of the stage presents recaps, narration, and questions-- but it's never clear if it's to the audience or Mad Rat. Maybe both. What's really important is the Framing, though. Mad Rat (kind of) acknowledges he is just a Character, but doesn't really Understand it. 

  Despite the knowledge, he still functions through the frame of a Character. He perceives the stage as The World Around Him rather than A Stage, while Rat God is the opposite. This leads to Mad Rat essentially just Following Her Lead. Which ends up just seeming... brazenly reckless and incredibly dangerous-- because Mad Rat doesn't think it will lead to anything. Obviously he's the main character, so he's probably going to just... get to his goal and whatever happens happens, right? Rat God said which way the story goes so... whatever, right?

  Which all culminates at Heart's intervention: Heart notices all of this and gets worried. Whatever this Mess about "shows" and "story" and "directors" is, Mad Rat is still being really really flippant about how many Near Death Experiences he's had (not to mention the whole "Seeing Things That Heart Doesn't" thing.) So he decides to step in.

  This is the first time we ever see Heart dance! He'd always insisted on being moral support/backup for Mad Rat, not really stepping in in any major way. Turns out, he's really good at a lot of dance styles. It's the first time we have a music genre outside of showtunes and the adjacent. It's heart basically trying to tell him that, whatever bullshit about "Narratives" he's following, Mad Rat is still Here. He's still a contributor to the world around him-- he can affect It, and it can affect him. It doesn't matter what he knows about Whatever This Is because it all wont matter if he gets himself into Real Trouble. Which is a convenient segue to the next arc-- they go off-script.

  The following arcs are pretty much just those two figuring out what to do and where they’re going. Mad Rat, up to this point, was just (kind of badly) trying to imitate the swing style from the beginning, but slowly starts figuring out his own specialty on his own. Mad Rat kind of dabbles through a lot, but is Particularly good at breakdance/krump. It’s a bit of a slow process, but he slowly forges his own place in a world he technically does not belong in. 

  All the while, Rat God is suspiciously quiet. They weren’t supposed to go that way, or do any of that, But she could improvise. She passively tried to mess with them from offstage-- changing the background scenery, tossing obstacles after them-- but they just. Kept going. Mad Rat even began Understanding the nature of The Stage and learning how to use that to his advantage, predicting the way things would move or shift, and using that knowledge to move even faster. It was only after Mimolette’s scene (which was Not supposed to be this early in the script, to Rat God’s chagrin,) that she Really started to get particularly miffed. They’d completely gone off-script, avoided Everything she sent after them-- but there was still an ending that needed to be told, and she was going to tell it no matter how messy it was to get there. Which leads to an intervention of her own.

  As the director, she had direct control over a lot of things-- but she herself could never interact with the Narrative. She had no real Hold, as it were. She was barely a concept to the characters in the narrative-- they could not really perceive her. So, she decided to break that rule-- and interact with them directly. Rat God’s scene is incredibly similar to that in canon: Incredibly Chaotic and Hard To Track. She mostly keeps to swing, as that’s her specialty, but regularly switches it up to try and throw Mad Rat off. But things are different than their first dance.

  Mad Rat has a grasp on himself and his goals. Rat God’s plan is already off its rhythm-- it was clear from the start that this was a last-ditch effort on her part to kill him. Despite her still trying to take control, Mad Rat was nothing if not stubborn. He was just as good at deflecting and navigating the scene as she was. But it’s hard to truly get rid of something like Rat God. She isn’t done until the Story was done. There was still a story to be told, so here she stayed. She could keep going as long as he could, and longer. So knowing what he did now, and understanding the circumstance, he did the only think of. The two had, to some extent, switched places: Rat God taking the stance of a Character/Participant in the scene, and Mad Rat seeing the full scope of The Stage and how it worked. The show was still going, so all he had to do was end it. 

  Tricking her into a monologue, he truly exits the frame of the narrative for the first time, grabbing one of the curtain ropes and letting it free, closing the curtains on the stage-- with Rat God behind them. And... silence. In the end, it was just the closed curtains, the audience, and Mad Rat and Heart in front of them. They saw the audience, truly, for the first time-- that larger force constantly watching over him from beyond his view, pushing the show forward not of their own actions, but of their presence alone. This is who it was all for. And seeing this, Mad Rat makes the decision... to ignore them. 

  They weren’t important anymore. The show was over-- the audience had no more use here. No more power here. They meant nothing to him. Nothing to them. He has one last talk with Heart-- they knew they weren’t alone, not truly-- but all that mattered right then was just the two of them. What they’d seen, what they’d been through-- it all had to come to an end eventually. But not by the hand of someone who had no stake in their story-- in their lives. Mad Rat gets to make his own choice about his future: And with no story left to tell... he gets up, and walks off the stage. 

   The Story Is Over.

[mars-ipan]

genuinely the smartest (and funniest) choice i ever made in junior high was completely ignoring people who tried to bully and/or annoy me