#but when you miss the point that badly that's on you and not the narrative

[livefromtheloam]

The reason I don't dive too deeply into fandom is because the entire landscape is littered with people who intentionally misinterpret the message and then blame the media for not fitting nicely into their absolute stinker of a take.

[heatwa-ves]

I hate every banana fish fan except for me and a couple ao3 authors

[stardustizuku]

Unfortunately I came across a very strange and misinformed video about Black Butler.

It’s not good. Don’t watch it. Unless you wanna ruin your day, in which case have fun.

Despite it all, I watched it. What left me wondering, however, was how off the mark the person who made the video was on, well, everything.

From their insistence that the Book of Circus Arc theme or point is non existent, to reading Ciel’s character so badly they genuinely thought the Green Witch Arc did nothing for his character development.

While baffled, it also made me think on how someone could read Black Butler so badly.

Sure, you can say that there’s no real way to read or interpret something “in the wrong way” but interpreting The Hunger Games as a pure battle-royale action story would make you believe it’s bad.

“Why are we focusing so much on how the capitol preps them?” Or “Why isn’t Katniss winning everything?” Or “I wanna know more about the rebellion” All questions that miss the actual point of the story - which is criticizing (not solving or ignoring) the way that media distracts us from violence via spectacle.

The same thing applies here. While there is no “right” way to consume media, there’s things that the author makes clear they wanna focus when creating a story. Things that, if you understand, make the story you’re reading actually make sense.

And in Black Butler there’s three things that you have to understand to properly get what Yana is saying.

Sebastian is the protagonist

Ciel and Sebastian’s relationship IS the story.

And that relationship is, fundamentally, a positive one.

A quicker version of it would be:

Black Butler is a love story from the POV of Sebastian, and you have to ship it to get it

- but that’s not entirely true.

You can still look at it as a complex but ultimately positive rship and get in broad strokes of what it’s conveying. It doesn’t have to be romantic. Although, it helps much more than a platonic framing.

(That said, interpreting their rship as father and son, still isn’t the best way to go about it. Mostly because by its very nature of “soul consuming” their relationship is extremely sexually charged. And hey, if you’re into that I don’t judge. However, if you’re desperately trying to interpret their rship as NOT romantic to the point you fall back on heteronormative patriarchal ideals of nuclear familiar as framing device, I don’t think this interpretation bodes with you)

Now, having all that ground work:

Why do I say these are the key components to understand BB?

Okay so, first,

1. Sebastian is the Main Character. The protagonist.

There’s a lot of people who wanna argue against it, claiming he’s either the villain or the antagonist. Both wrong.

He does not function as an antagonist. Even if, and an emphasis on if, you consider Ciel to the protagonist, Sebastian isn’t a narrative antagonist.

If you wanna go back to Creative Writing 101, be my guest. An antagonist is directly defined by the protagonist. It’s the opposing force. If the protagonist wants A, the antagonist wants to stop them from getting A.

Sebastian’s catchphrase is “Yes, my Lord”. He never opposes Ciel, in fact quite the contrary. By the mere fact they’ve created contract, it means that they’ve both agreed in the inevitable outcome.

People want to frame Sebastian as the villain, because Ciel having his soul taken by a demon, would be a BAD END in the context of their moral compass. They see Ciel as a frail victim of abuse, who’s being tricked by Sebastian, who wants Ciel’s soul.

Which is an. Interpretation. A bad one. But still one.

The narrative (and whether the narrative fits your personal moral compass and lack of critical thinking is irrelevant) treats Ciel as an agent in his own destiny. The abuse he suffered was the moment in which he had no control. It’s only after he meets Sebastian that he can rid of both his guilt and his despair, and do what he wants.

In this case though, it’s revenge.

The famous “Asthma” scene shows this. If Ciel is taken back to his past, he becomes helpless. Swarmed with pain and memories that make it so that he can’t even react. Sebastian is his saving grace. If Ciel didn’t have him, and the power he wields to rebuilt what’s broken, he would crumble once more.

If Ciel has a panic attack, because of all the pain he has, Sebastian picks him up and says “you are not a helpless child anymore, you are not a victim anymore, you have the power to do anything. So, what do you wanna do?”

Ciel’s answer is to kill them.

A proper analogy would be to say that, if Sebastian offers a gun, Ciel pulls the trigger. They are both at fault. Sebastian, strictly speaking, is not here to directly cause Ciel’s downfall, but as a tool Ciel uses to plunge into the abyss.

If, again if, you were to frame Ciel as a protagonist, Sebastian falls closer to the “Voice of reason” character. Not a literal voice of reason, but a literary one. If you have a protagonist and an antagonist exchanging ideals, the Voice of Reason serves to engage with the protagonist on their own ideals.

That said, Ciel isn’t the protagonist. The story quickly falls apart if you interpret it as such.

Things such as Ciel’s character arc being…shall I say odd?

It’s not that his character arc isn’t there, but it’s never lineal. His goals stay the same, the only thing that happens is that we start to peel back the “why”s of his goals. Throughout the series it’s never about Ciel understanding himself better, he knows who he is, he knows what he wants, he knows why he wants it. He doesn’t ever need to uncover these, but simply remember them. Because it’s always about the audience understanding Ciel.

He knows he wants revenge.

In the Circus Arc: He knows that he needs Sebastian because without him, the pain of the abuse he suffered would be too much to bear. But WE are introduced to it.

In the Book of Atlantis: He knows that with this new lease he does not want happiness and peace, he wants revenge. The one being told this is the audience.

In Green Witch Arc: He knows that their revenge isn’t for his family, the real Ciel or guilt. It’s because he wants it. He’s angry, he’s upset, and this is entirely for him. The one being told this is the audience.

Except. Not really. The one either discovering or remembering these key moments - is always Sebastian.

Sebastian is the one who reassures him that he now holds the power of a demon to override the pain. Sebastian is the one who remembers that to override that pain, Ciel wants revenge. And Sebastian is the one who discovers that that revenge isn’t built out of grief or guilt, but for himself.

We are witnessing it all, through the eyes of Sebastian.

This is why we have an extremely vague idea of who Ciel is, Sebastian does not have the whole picture.

If you haven’t been reading this manga with your eyes closed, you’ll realize we have a better grasp at Sebastian’s character than that of Ciel. We get a lot of insight on how he thinks and what he values through light hearted dialogue he has with the servants. You even see the character development in these little interactions.

Think about how when he first arrived to the mansion he magically created food with no regards to taste, but when he meets Bard he states that food is created to see whoever will eat it, smile.

That is character development, more than you will be able to see from Ciel.

Because Ciel’s character, while not static, doesn’t go from point A to point B. Mostly, cause it doesn’t need to. He went through that when he lost the real Ciel and got Sebastian. Everything we are watching is the falling out.

Now, given the fact that I’ve told you that it makes more sense for Sebastian to be the protagonist/main character, and that he 100% isn’t either a villain or antagonist in ANY of the interpretations you can get:

Do you believe me?

If you don’t, you’ll probably believe Yana herself.

This is from the first Volume, where Yana herself describes the process of making Black Butler. The primary idea behind the creation of BB was a butler as a “hero”.

If you go back to the introductory chapter, you notice that Ciel is barely mentioned. He’s simply the one to give Sebastian impossible tasks and standards that Sebastian must find how to overcome.

Ciel is properly introduced until the NEXT chapter. The second chapter has this formula too, introducing Lizzie as a problem to overcome. Although, to Sebastian the best way to “get rid of the problem” is simply to indulge her.

The issue here being that the problem isn’t as simple as a business meeting but something directly tied to Ciel and Ciel’s past. Each time that Sebastian has to solve a problem, it chips away at Ciel. While with Lizzie he shows a persona, once he’s alone with Sebastian he acknowledges the toll it took on him. It serves to build Ciel as Sebastian’s master, and how some problems aren’t as simple as discarding a tablecloth.

The third and the fourth, are a unified narrative, with a similar premise to the first chapter. Ciel gets kidnapped and Sebastian must find a way to retrieve him without raising suspicions.

If the first chapter is to set up what Sebastian must do as a butler, the third and the fourth serve to set up what he must do as a demon.

The entirety of the volume, and up to Book of Circus Arc, is about how Sebastian tries to follow the increasingly absurd orders that Ciel has - it is not about Ciel trying to solve them.

That’s how they work, we follow Sebastian for the most part, because he’s the one having to come up with the solutions.

If anything, in early Kuro, where the emphasis was more on a slice of life conflict, Ciel is the antagonist. He’s the one creating problems for Sebastian to solve.

What’s more, in the second volume, the very first chapter is one from Sebastian’s POV. So far, we hadn’t gotten an entire chapter from Ciel’s POV. In fact, I would find it hard to point to a single chapter where Ciel is the POV throughout. The reveal of real Ciel and the flashback is the closest contender.

But once we move past early Kuro, and into Book of Circus, this set up changes.

It’s fairly easy to assume that Ciel is the main character, because from this point on the conflict of the plot sorta surrounded him. We spend a lot of time with him and with his story. The enemies start being people directly tied to Ciel and Ciel’s trauma. Rarely, if at all, we get to see Sebastian before he met Ciel.The framing device for the story, is Ciel.

This is where point 2 gets intertwined.

2.- Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship IS the story.

The story begins at the point where Sebastian and Ciel met. Who Ciel was before he met Sebastian, informs why he’s the way he is when he does. You have to know all he went through to understand why he’s a brat, why he lashes out. However Sebastian’s past doesn’t matter…because Sebastian himself doesn’t care much for who he was, before he was “Sebastian”. That’s also part of the narrative.

Unlike Ciel, he doesn’t seem opposed to revealing information from before the contract. He talks about how pets from where he is from are gross, he talks about how he knows how to dance because of other places he’s been to, and alludes to the life he's lived before.

Just that, to him, they're footnotes.

He makes allusions to a very bland, uninteresting life, up to the point he meets Ciel.

That’s why we don’t know more about his past.

As for why we focus on Ciel’s story…okay maybe we need Creative Writing lessons 102

I studied Dramaturgy for about 3 to 4 years. And something you notice is how play-writing is the quintessential story telling. It’s making it work with the bare bones of a story.

Some other mediums have more finesse, more depth, or more spectacle - all amazing things that work for whatever they’re created for. But understanding a play, how and why it works, helps understand the fundamentals of any derivative story telling medium.

Particularly, conflict.

Conflict is dialogue and dialogue can take many forms. A story, in its essence, is a dialogue between two opposing ideas.

Take Batman, for example, who embodies the ideas of justice and order. On his own, he’s not a well rounded character.

If you ONLY present him, in a vaccum with nothing else, you don’t have a character. You have a list of characteristics that you’re supposed to know.

You only know who he is when you have dialogue with another character.

I say Dialogue, but it doesn’t necessarily mean spoken language at one another. Dialogue can mean fist fighting, playing tabletop games, talking to other people about the other, or even just a competition. The idea is to simply to compare and contrast both ideas.

If you want an example on how tabletop games serve as dialogue, watch the video “Well, Someone Had to Explain the Liar’s Dice Scene” by Lord Ravecraft

Another example, were we to retake Batman, you have him fight Joker. Who’s the embodiment of chaos and randomness.

In the following picture, you get far more information than the one previously shown. While the Joke fights with daggers and fake guns, Batman only uses his fists. He doesn’t use the tricks that Joker does. His serious demeanor, contrasted with Joker’s glee at the dangerous situation. The fact that Batman has a deathly grip on Joker’s shirt, while the Joker doesn’t, which shows a desperation to catch him.

You are being shown, through a dialogue, who Batman is.

It’s so much easier and much more effective to explore a character through another character.

This is the reason why Shonen has a tendency to make incredibly good gay ships. If you want to explore Naruto’s personality, and his feelings of inferiority, you HAVE to have him interact with Sasuke.

If you wanna understand Hinata’s passion for volleyball, you have him enjoy himself the most with the only other crazy motherfucker who’s as obsessed with volleyball - Kageyama.

And I think that originally, Yana had this problem.

Sebastian was the protagonist, but she had little room to develop him as a character in the confines of the manor, dealing with random enemies.

She likely tried to create Grell as someone of the same stature as Sebastian. Someone who could be this other person to engage dialogue with and show or allude to his past a bit more.

The problem being that Sebastian didn’t care for his past. Or really, engaging with anyone. He sees everyone as below him, but when confronted with Grell who isn’t below him, he doesn’t wanna talk to her.

So you’re stuck in conundrum.

How do you have dialogue with a character, that as a character trait, doesn’t really wanna have dialogue?

Well, Grell also solves the problem. Because only the moment she gets him to start any semblance of a dialogue - is questioning why he’s serving Ciel.

And this is the moment when it’s perfectly cemented that the focus of the story is their relationship.

Why is Sebastian here? Why does he stay? What did he see in Ciel that made him want this extremely convoluted contract?

THATS the dialogue.

THATS the conversation we’re having in Black Butler.

We need to know Ciel because understanding who he is, let’s us know WHY /Sebastian/ is here.

Then slowly, with the introduction with the Undertaker, we find out Sebastian’s conflict.

Which is…

He’s scared of losing Ciel. It becomes apparent with the constant imagery of the Undertaker taking away Ciel and at some point even obtaining r!Ciel’s body, that he’s worried it might happen.

But he can only be worried that Ciel might be taken away if he wants to stay near Ciel.

And that’s his character arc.

Realizing that he actually likes Ciel, cares for him and the role he plays a butler that he doesn’t want this to end.

In the first chapters, he doesn’t feel a need to protect Ciel anymore than what’s strictly necessary. Just don’t die, that’s about as deep as his involvement in chapter 4 gets.

But by the Green Witch Arc, he feels a need to protect Ciel from ANY harm.

This is why I also said

3.- Their relationship is fundamentally a positive one.

In broad strokes, Sebastian to Ciel is the person who allows him to survive. He’s not worried about giving up his soul since he’s already dead. While Ciel to Sebastian, is someone who’s making him have fun. He’s slowly becoming more and more attached to Ciel and the life he has with Ciel.

Their relationship is not that of just a predator and prey, but also of master and pet.

In the terms that Black Butler itself would call: Sebastian is a wild wolf acting like a collared dog.

Ciel is aware that the wild beast will eat him at the end of the day, but if he clings hard to leash for now, he might just be able to have Sebastian maul his abusers.

Sebastian as a dog, currently finds that he enjoys being a chained dog.

(This is demonstrated in the Green Witch arc where he quite literally says, he doesn’t wanna be a wild beast and prefers to be a butler)

And much like the actual DOG Sebastian, Ciel constantly interprets his attempts to get close and protect him, as an act of aggression.

This push and pull of Ciel’s perception of Sebastian and Sebastian’s true motives is what feeds the story.

And the briefs interludes were that isn’t the case (what other people call the “plot”, but I would refer to as the connective tissue) such as Sullivan and Wolfram, the other servant’s past, the grim reapers and the like, serve as a parallel to Ciel and Sebastian relationship. Either to signify how they care for each other, highlight their weaknesses or fears, or explore how they feel.

It’s no surprise that Sullivan and Wolfram are parallels to Ciel and Sebastian. A sheltered sickly child who seeks the protection of a cold hearted machine that only knew how to kill, but who eventually found he cared for her genuinely.

Undertaker and Claudia’s relationship being heavily paralleled with them, even though we aren’t 109% sure what they had but heavily implied it was a romantic attraction from the undead supernatural creature and a Phantomhive.

Everything is a parallel.

That’s why, like the approach of the terrible original video, is flawed.

Trying to interpret Black Butler as action scene after action scene, with mystery after mystery with the only connective tissue being the mystery of who burned down the mansion - is missing the trees for the forest.

That’s not the point.

And if you’re too much of a prude to engage with gothic horror in its gothic horror game, I see little point as to why you even bother to engage with it at all.

A lot of people, including the person who create the video, simply refuse to acknowledge Black Butler IS the story of Sebastian and Ciel as a close and positive relationship, romantically and sexually charged. The reason for it being that they’re “put off” by it.

Part of me wonders how much that is genuinely true, and how much is just performative outrage. It’s like ignoring the fact that Cersei and Jami are in an incestous relationship and try to frame it as “platonic love”, because the idea of it is THAT off putting.

But regardless of that, if you don’t like the fact that it’s as canon as canon can get, I would reccomend you don’t engage with the story at all.

As I’ve explained, the entirety of the series is about them. If you refuse to see Sebastian and Ciel as, at the very least, a duo that cares deeply for the other - you aren’t reading Black Butler.

I have no idea what you’re reading.Perhaps your own biases and subconscious stigma with British aesthetic. At that point, watch the fucking British Royalty Gossip Magazine. You’d find more substance there.

Just don’t be like the person in the video, please? Don’t play dumb. Don’t ignore the fact that Yana is a Shotacon, don’t ignore the fact Sebastian is a hero, don’t ignore the fact that the entirety of the story is based on Sebastian and Ciel’s dynamic.

Because if you do, you are ashamed. You are ashamed of what this story is about. You don’t wanna engage with the text, you want to engage with yourself. You wanna project into Ciel whatever traumas and experiences you have, for the sake a vanity project, where you come out as the morally superior.

You don’t wanna talk about Black Butler, you wanna talk about how good YOU are. How you “don’t sin” by watching it “without all the gross unholy stuff”.

Which is the exact opposite of what BB is about.

So, if you don’t want to, save us all the humiliation fetish and leave.

[whetstonefires]

Thinking about the parallels set up between Wei Wuxian and Mo Xuanyu, and how actually most of them are oddly specious.

The sketch of the backstory lines up, but on close examination they're mirror images.

Wei Wuxian wasn't kicked out of his sect, he left it. Wei Wuxian didn't hate the house he grew up in, he loved it, and getting the people there killed was the absolute last purpose for which his dark powers were ever intended.

Jiang Cheng was no Mo Ziyuan--his jealousy was a complicated thing all twisted up with love, and while he would lash out at Wei Wuxian both as a casual means of shit communication and more damagingly in moments of high tension, he had neither the desire nor the ability to bully him, and in general respected his boundaries almost too well.

When Wei Wuxian destroyed himself about Jiang Cheng, it was to give him cultivation, and protect his life and happiness. He would never have killed him.

Madam Yu was a domineering aunt-like figure, who hated Wei Wuxian for reasons of reputation, and because she had resented his dead mother, but she crucially did not have the power to actually disrupt his lifestyle to any significant extent.

Mo Xuanyu was shut up in a small room to rot; Wei Wuxian didn't even attend classes unless he wanted to. Mo Xuanyu was weak and disliked; Wei Wuxian was brilliant and popular.

Mo Xuanyu's uncle is a cipher of a figure, without character or agency, a nonentity who is resented to death apparently mostly for what he didn't do; in theory he is the master of the house, but he certainly never protected his wife and son's punching bag from them.

And this is what got me thinking along this track: because people keep interpreting Jiang Fengmian as this, as exactly like Mo Xuanyu's nameless uncle, a nonentity who lets his wife make all the decisions, and is contemptible therefore.

He shows up in fic characterized this way all the time, handled narratively as a gap rather than a person, an absence where there should have been a parent, and it's...totally inaccurate? The man only has a few scenes but the things that are most firmly established about him are:

he regularly goes out of his way to protect Wei Wuxian

he's extremely fond of Wei Wuxian

he cares a lot about ethical behavior

he's conflict-avoidant and gentle

he can and will overrule Yu Ziyuan when he's made up his mind, and there's nothing she can do about it

his communication skills are mediocre at best

he doesn't understand jiang cheng

he has a dumb sense of humor

Now almost none of this made it into cql besides point 4 and maybe 6, 5 is technically there but buried by the cinematic framing, so I totally get why the fandom on the whole struggles to characterize him well, and it's easier to write him off.

But it keeps bugging me to see him and Yu Ziyuan squashed into the mold of the Mo, because not only is that boring and reductive and kind-of-missing-the-point, it's like. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's characterization suffers a lot when you alter the environment and take away the influence exerted by their shared father figure.

Jiang Fengmian was Wei Wuxian's primary adult role model and it shows.

Jiang Cheng's relationship to his own sense of ethics is fraught because 'teaching him good ethics' was his dad's number one parenting goal, but they misunderstood each other so badly (partly because Yu Ziyuan kept loudly misinterpreting them to each other, which is so realistic I can't get over it, that's exactly how it works good lord) that Jiang Cheng has a direct association between the concept of 'doing the right thing even when it's hard' and a feeling of personal inadequacy.

The fact that Wei Wuxian got their dad-person's approval for being exactly himself and Jiang Cheng not only couldn't do that, he couldn't even get that same level of approval when he really pushed himself to rise to expectations, because Jiang Fengmian did not intend that warmth as a 'reward,' and so never realized he was withholding it, and therefore misunderstood Jiang Cheng's visible jealousy as a dangerous sense of personal entitlement that had to be carefully restrained, which reinforced his distrust of Jiang-Cheng-the-person and fed into a shitty loop where they were less and less able to relate to one another--that's fantastic. That's so human! I love it so much.

Both their failures are their own but at the same time it would never have gotten so bad if Yu Ziyuan hadn't been interjecting herself in there, in the middle of their relationship, fucking it up. That's family, baby.

I would ofc like if there was more fic engaging with the subtleties of all this because it's so good, mxtx did such elegant work here and it is not sufficiently appreciated. But it's the kind of thing that's hard to write good fic about; I am struggling with it myself.

So mostly I wish there was just more fic that didn't impose Mo Xuanyu's cliche angst backstory on Wei Wuxian, who has a whole different thing going on.

[myhamartiaishubris]

Ben Hargreeves is the worst written best character and I can prove it

This is a poorly organized meta/essay about my baby boy who got massacred. Originally posted in the discord server so some of y'all have seen it already.

Let me be clear: this is a love letter to my favourite Hargreeves boy. I could write him better. I could fix him (narratively).

Here's why Ben is a great character who, paradoxically, was very badly written.

Umbrella Ben

Listen. Listen to me. Ben Hargreeves was, from the moment I saw him, my absolute favourite character. He's already dead? Doomed by the narrative before the narrative even begins? Also, an East Asian character in the year of our Lord 2018?? I was on board. And Brelly Ben gets a lot of good moments! You know that scene where Klaus is in the motel closet, tied up, and Ben says something like, "How does it feel being helpless? This is how I feel, watching my brother piss his life away." Um, hello?? That's such a delicious line.

Because up until this point Ben's been kind of quiet, in that dead broody way, or we saw his young self being soft and reluctant. But suddenly we realize, oh, Ben isn't nice. In fact, he's kind of nasty to his addict brother, and you get this kernel of a glimpse into his character. This is a character who might have been soft-spoken in life, but death and the years since have shredded him down to all his razor edges. He's still that bookish little Ben, except he's not little and he's frustrated, angry, traumatized, and in pain.

And season 2 builds on this! He's willing to violate Klaus's personal boundaries just for a taste of life again. Holy shit that's so delicious. My problem is that, especially in season 2, this isn't explored nearly as much as it could be. Ben's possession shenanigans are mostly played for comedy, when in fact we could be delving into the implications of Ben's character and his relationship with Klaus. You have this character who's kind, who (from what we know so far) represented the "good" of the academy, who loves his brother so so hard and it hurts him so bad to see Klaus hit rock bottom every time. The little "I missed you guys" in season 2? Devastating. And yet despite his goodness he is capable of being a bad person, and he repeatedly hurts those around him (namely Klaus).

So surely this is part of his arc, right? This is going to be explored and resolved. Right?

The Season 2 Ending

So the thing is, I didn't immediately hate the way they had Ben move on / die to save Viktor. I was sad to see my favourite character go, but also excited to see where the writers would take that storyline. Because, obviously, it wasn't over. Right? Obviously Ben's arc isn't finished, he hasn't resolved his frustrations, his complicated relationship with Klaus is never fully untangled, plus the rest of the family never get a moment of real closure with him (except maybe Diego). So clearly, it wasn't over. Right?

Well, in light of season 4, I can confidently come back and say that killing Brelly Ben off here was a stupidass decision.

And here's why: you've effectively splintered his arc in half. Starting from season 3, Ben is an entirely different character, with an entirely different arc that needs to be built from the ground up. While everyone else gets 4 seasons of development, Ben only gets 2, both times. And I'm so not over the fact that his arc isn't over. We saw Ben do some reprehensible shit to Klaus, especially in season 2 with all that possession shit! And we just. Never hear from him again? That's bullshit.

But anyway, since we're here, let's make peace with being here. Hey, Justin H Min is still playing a version of Ben, and he seems interesting, if way different! Surely this will have some interesting implications.

Sparrow Ben

Oh god, Sparrow Ben. In terms of Ben's character writing, season 3 is... fine. Like I said, it suffers from effectively fracturing his arc in half and having to start over, and this isn't the complicated, kind but frustrated and prickly ghost Ben I originally fell in love with. But ok, I do like Justin, and EA rep is still a win to me, so let's go with the flow.

For the most part, season 3 does a solid job. We get some solid beats relating to Ben's ambition and inferiority complex being Number 2. There's a bit of overacting on Justin's part, but hey, that's camp. (I think. I have no idea if I'm using that word right. Am I hip with the kids?)

I really, really loved Ben's moment with Sloane as she's getting married, because it highlights the core of this Ben's character: someone who desperately yearns for family but has forced himself to be all hard shell and soldier. In a way, he's the other end of Brelly Ben's spectrum. (Like forsterite and fayalite - all Mg on one end, Fe on the other.) How much of this Ben is family softness, how much of it is defense mechanism and lashing out?

And then of course - the thing I've been craving so badly - the in-universe comparison to Brelly Ben. This was done... underwhelmingly, if I'm honest. I liked that Ben had a moment of crisis where he couldn't live up to the Umbrellas' dead version of himself, and his moment with Klaus was nice, but in light of season 4 it becomes clear that we could have had more. I wanted him to have an entire arc about it - after all, it's a pretty significant aspect of your character to be "the worse version of yourself from another timeline." (Refer to @vyther16's Gongye Jiwu fic.) I feel like there's a lot of meta you could pull from that, about how your siblings who aren't your siblings look at you and see someone different. Someone you won't be. Someone you can't be, even if you tried, so why bother trying? And they really don't dig through that at all, which is disappointing.

The tentacle samurai fight is badass, though.

Season 4

Oh buddy oh boy. There's so much dumpster fire here, but I'll start with the season 3 loose ends and then move on to season 4's own problems.

1) Sloane. Luther picks Ben up from prison, so I thought they might have an interesting bonding moment over Sloane - after all, they're the two people who cared most about her. But actually no, apparently Ben doesn't give a shit about the one real sister he actually had left at the end of s3.

2) The subway thing. Wasn't he in Korea? My grasping-at-straws ass truly thought that might have been Brelly Ben in the reset timeline, and we'd get a Ben-Ben confrontation or a battle in the minds thing. But I guess that doesn't matter.

3) The Jennifer Incident. So we all know that everyone forgetting about an incident they explicitly reference is stupid, right? Especially because the name Jennifer only exists because they reference it in s3. Ben obsessively draws Jennifer, and then he doesn't recognize or know her? Kill me.

The continuation of his arc is also just sloppy, if it even exists. No more identity crisis about being the worse Ben, no more secret yearning for family or inferiority complex about being a good soldier. Suddenly his arc amounts to, uh, being an asshole and getting hit with sex pollen so powerful it ends the world.

And look, there is a world where Sparrow Ben spiking everyone with marigold could parallel with Brelly Ben's consent problems with Klaus. There is a world where Sparrow Ben dying because of Jennifer could echo Brelly Ben's death in a haunting, tragic, destined kind of way.

But, uh, none of that happens. Here we are, finally getting a Ben-centric season, and it's this. Being relegated to a plot device in your own season. Looking back and realizing that you were always the plot device, even in season 2. Carrying all that tragedy in your little ghost body and being treated like Chekov's waterlogged gun.

And I can't help but look back at season 1, Klaus trying so desperately to prove Ben's existence, and contrast it with the literal next season where a single throwaway line from Klaus sidelines Ben for a whole season. And then he dies. And he dies again.

Fucking hell.

It feels like I'm being made a fool of. Oh, you cared about this East Asian character? You wanted him to have narrative weight and character presence instead of being a plot device for the benefit of his White brothers? Idiot.

Because you'll still be here anyway, right? You'll grasp onto your crumbs for a cool EA character, you'll let us run a character through a trash compactor and keep pretending he's a good character because you latched onto this one East Asian protagonist and you don't want to admit that maybe you should have let go years before.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

“Also because I want [Nino] to be more narratively important but that is a rant for another day.” And will that day be someday soon? Wink wink nudge nudge :3c

I am happy to give Nino some love, but before we do, we need to talk about how badly canon has failed him. The reason we need to have that talk is that the love I'm going to give is far more headcanon-y than I usually go in these analysis posts. For most characters, I can give a strong canon-based argument for a core characterization. For Nino? Well, I am pulling this stuff from canon, but I wouldn't exactly label it a "strong" argument. There are even elements of my take on Nino that you could label "grasping at straws".

And I'm happy to own that! I delight in giving Nino all the love he deserves even if it doesn't perfectly match canon, but that means that my Nino is less me leaning into the best parts of canon and more me shifting through canon, grabbing a few shinny bits, and weaving them into something that you may not agree with because my vision for Nino is to elevate him to match Alya in terms of narrative importance because I want the team show season two promised me even if I have to make it myself!

And if you don't want that? Then that's fine! I'm not arguing that everyone should adopt this take. My version of Nino is about as close to an OC as I get when writing fanfic. So let's get into it and talk about why I had to do that. (Also note that I have nothing against OCs. It's just that, when it comes to my own writing, I try to reserve them for original fiction or for very minor roles that no canon character could fill. Totally a matter of personal preference and not some sort of judgement.)

The Many Ways that Canon has Done Nino Dirty

If we look at what is arguably the main group of friends - Alya, Marinette, Adrien, and Nino - then we can see a clear base concept for the first three. Alya is the plucky reporter. Marinette is the headstrong leader. Adrien is the sweet goofball. Nino is... Alya's boyfriend? Adrien's best friend? Chris' older brother?

This is the problem that I was referring to above. Alya, Adrien, and Marinette have clear roles that you could pick out by just watching Origins. Nino doesn't. He doesn't even speak in part one and part two gives him all of six lines. These lines establish him as a nice guy since they're all about him being kind to Adrien, but that's about it. Here's one of them as an example:

Miss Bustier: Agreste, Adrien? Nino: (quietly to Adrien) You say "present". Adrien: (jumps up with his hand raised) Uh, present!

This is a cute moment for sure, but when I look at it, I can't tell you who Nino is supposed to be other than a nice guy, which isn't much to go on. Nice guys can fit a lot of roles.

This isn't necessarily a flaw. Some characters have roles that are immediately obvious and some characters don't. This second class of character usually just has a more complex role that will be discovered and defined based on their actions as the story goes on. However, because Miraculous' writing is all over the place, Nino gets screwed. Instead of his actions defining his nebulous role, his actions make his role impossible to pin down! Here are a few examples:

Nino the Protector:

Season two was big on the idea that miraculous had to be suited to their holders. That's why Chloe kept getting the bee as we saw in Malediktator:

Marinette: I must choose someone who's not impressed by people in power. Who can help me trap Malediktator. Huh?! Of course! That's it. (reaches for the Miraculous of the Bee)

And why did Nino get the turtle in Anansi?

Marinette: I need a protective Miraculous. (gasps, and points at the Turtle Miraculous Master Fu is wearing) That's the one I need, Master! (Master Fu gasps) Uh, if it's okay with you. Master Fu: (smiles at Wayzz, who nods to him) Do you have someone in mind, Marinette?  Marinette: Actually, I think I found just the right person.

Okay, cool, we finally have a strong defining trait for Nino! He's a protector! Or, at least, he was here. Other episodes go directly against this role such as this nonsense from Illusion:

Nino: What's up is Ladybug and Cat Noir don't have us to help them anymore. Alya: (nervously) Um, um— uh— what do you mean, "us"? Nino: Well, us, you Rena Rouge, me Carapace! (Alya kicks his leg underneath the table) Ouch! What's the big deal? We can tell Marinette and Adrien we used to be superheroes.

This first issue with this episode is that we see Nino out his and Alya's secret identities without her permission even though the resistance did NOT require an identity reveal to be a thing. In other words, our supposed protector is taking a big risk for no reason. Then he goes and does this:

Nino: Hence my plan. We're gonna film an akumatization. Alya: And how are you, Comrade Ketchup, gonna be in the know when and where this akumatization takes place? Nino: Easy, Comrade Beurre Maître d'Hôtel. I'm gonna make it happen.

Which leads to the four friends antagonizing Gabriel even though Nino knows how complex Adrien and Gabriel's relationship is. A move that makes no sense for a supposed protector because Gabriel was far from their only option. Nino could have picked anyone, but he went with the riskiest candidate possible, exposing his best friend to a potentially massive backlash.

Nino also doesn't even try to contact Ladybug and Chat Noir prior to this insane plan, thereby putting the whole city at unnecessary risk! What kind of protector purposely causes an akuma without also coming up with mitigation strategies to minimize the resulting damage?

Everything Nino does in this episode should disqualify him from ever holding the turtle again or, at the very least, he should have to redeem himself before holding the turtle again. This is especially true since he never apologizes for anything he did in Illusion and this is just one example of the issue. It's actually kind of hard to find moments where Nino acts as a protector even though he holds the miraculous of Protection. So is he supposed to be a protector? Who knows!

Nino, The Empath:

That first example was long, so we'll pick two quicker ones to flesh this out. The first one is how Nino and Adrien's relationship is defined. In Origins and the New York Special Nino is written as a kind and sensitive guy who is acting as Adrien's guide to dating and other elements of the real world:

Nino: Yup. I love Adrien, but he's like a baby chick that's just started cracking out of his egg. He has a hard time understanding the signals people send him. Alya: What signals? Marinette isn't exactly sending them clearly. I mean, look! What is she doing with her arms? Telling him what to do in case of an emergency landing or something? Nino:(sighs) If only this trip could help Adrien finally come out of his shell.

But then you have episodes like Animan where Adrien is Nino's guide to dating:

Nino: Shhh! You know I'm no good with the ladies, especially this one all of a sudden. I mean, dude, do I go up to her and crack her a joke? Shoot her a compliment? Invite her to the zoo? Play it serious? Adrien: Nino, you're way over-thinking this. "Invite her to the zoo", you serious? Nino: Well, they have this really cool new exhibit there. Adrien: Listen, just be yourself, man.

And episodes like Illusion (discussed above) and Psycomedian (see below) where Adrien is deeply uncomfortable and Nino doesn't notice:

Nino: See, dude? I told you! Hilarious, right? Adrien: Uh... (laughs nervously) Right! Really funny, Nino. Nino: I gotta show you his other sketches. It's insane that you don't know Harry Clown! (laughs)

Which might work if these episodes were about Nino learning a lesson, but they're not. Nino learns nothing, so is he generally in tune with others or is he kind of oblivious to other peoples' feelings? And why did Nino ever think that Adrien was a good source of romantic advice if he also thinks that Adrien is "a baby chick"? Pick a lane people!

Nino's Hobbies

Our final source of confusion is trying to define what Nino even enjoys doing. Horrificator and Queen Banana have him playing around as an amature film maker, but we also see him acting as an amature DJ with the wiki even claiming that he's the head of the school's radio station. So which of these things is his passion? Movies or music?

To be clear, I think it's fine to have multiple passions, but this is a story. You want to keep your characters' non-story-relevant hobbies kind of simple, especially when the character in question is a relatively minor side character who rarely gets much screen time. It's why Alix is only really into roller skating and why Nathaniel is only really into art. You don't want them to be more complex than that.

Even the main characters get this "keep it simple" treatment with Marinette only really being into fashion and Alya only really being into her blog. The girls don't need two demanding passions that would eat up all of their free time, but that's what Nino gets! Film and music are both incredibly demanding passions and it's hard to balance a character who is into both who is also an active superhero. That's a lot for one dude to do well!

I've actually seen fics that cast Nino as wanting to be a director and fics that make him want to be a professional DJ because canon really isn't clear about this pretty basic aspect of his character, but you do need to pick a lane when writing anything that gives Nino a career and so people seem to pick a passion at random.

My Version of Nino

By now, we're hopefully in agreement that canon has made a mess of Nino's character to the point where it's near impossible to say "this is who Nino is supposed to be." However, if you want to write Nino, then you do kind of have to pick a characterization to go with, so here's what I've come up with. Feel free to embrace it or reject it, but know that you will pry my version of Nino out of my cold dead hands because I utterly adore him.

Since Nino is Carapace, I base everything about him around the concept of "protect and defend" because he needs to feel like he deserves his heroic alter ego. I do not want to make canon's mistake of giving him a miraculous that massively contradicts his writing. Especially when that writing makes him feel interchangeable with other characters. At this point, no one from canon screams "turtle miraculous" unless you want to give it to Adrien since he's Ladybug's defender.

I also designed Nino around Alya and Adrien as those will arguably be his most important relationships. He should feel like a perfect fit for boyfriend and best friend respectively. I also took Marinette into consideration because he's going to be part of her team/friend group, so he should work with her, too.

What all that means is that I basically said "okay, this is where Nino is supposed to fit in the story and this is the dumpster fire that canon gave us, how do I pull pieces from the fire and paste them together to make a character that fits who Nino should have been?"

To really get into my version of Nino, I'd almost have to give you a fic to read, but that's way too much for a Tumblr post, so let's keep this high-level and just look at some of my notes on Nino from my lore Bible:

Nino is a major audiophile. He loves listening to music and watching movies/TV shows to study how they play with sound. He wants to be an audio engineer when he's older, but he also has a general passion for all things music and film. He’ll listen to any genre and watch almost any movie or show. He loves to take charge of the music at events so that the music really fits the crowd (and so it sounds good). It isn’t unheard of for him to go see an unknown band or an odd indie film on his own. This will become a major bonding point for Nino and Adrien because of the influence of Adrien's mother. Nino has seen all of Emilie's films and loves them. It will also bond him and Alya as his knowledge of film making will allow him to help her learn the art of filming now that she's doing complex things like actions shots and editing together multiple recordings.

Nino is generally pretty laid back and likes to hear people out. His reaction to confrontation is to try to calm everyone down so that they can get to the heart of the issue. He wants everyone to get along, but he's also not going to let someone take the blame when they shouldn't. Nino protects the innocent.

Nino is incredibly protective of the people he loves. If someone he cares about is in danger, his peaceful nature goes straight out the window. He’s the kind of person who would happily take a bullet for his friends and family. This will lead to him following Alya around once the hero stuff starts because he wants to keep her safe. Never let Alya go out alone if Nino is around or even just aware that a fight is happening. Alya thinks "scoop" and Nino thinks "my Alya sense is tingling." He's NOT there to stop her from doing what she loves, he's just there to be her spotter who lets her focus on filming while he watches for danger, though that will initially be a struggle for him. Treat this as his audition/training for Carapace where he learns to balance protective instincts with getting the job done so that he's ready to perfectly take on his miraculous.

When Nino’s folks split up, his mother insisted that the kids should go to therapy to help process things. They had individual and family counseling. Nino was actually pretty cool with the divorce as he’d seen it coming, but his brother was really affected by it, so Nino spent his time working on ways to help Chris (and being told that he was a brother, not a parent, but he still wanted to help). He learned a lot from going through it and it’s why he’s so good at dealing with emotional issues. He’s also good at not taking those burdens on himself. He wants to help, but knows that it's your battle. Marinette often looks to Nino for guidance on emotional issues because she knows that she's terrible at navigating them. She has given him full permission to stop her when she's too focused on solutions over support. All of the friends will help Adrien figure out social situations, but Nino will be the main guide as he's the one with the strongest skills in that area. Plus Adrien makes Nino's protective big brother instincts go crazy.

Nino’s a bit of a loner by choice. He has "weird" hobbies that easily lend themselves to being done alone and he doesn't have any interest in "forcing" his hobbies on someone who doesn't actually enjoy them, so he spends a lot of time by himself and rarely invites others to share in his interests. He only does that when he thinks that they'll actually enjoy what he's sharing. He doesn’t mind this, but he’s also a very welcoming individual who doesn’t like to see people left out, so he’ll come out of his shell when he sees someone who needs a friend. This usually leads to him making friends who soon become closer with others, but still view him as a casual friend. He’s cool with that. He's just happy that they found their people. Adrien will be the first friend who really stays Nino’s due to an understanding of Nino’s “weird” hobbies. After all, Adrien’s the son of an actress. He’s used to weird indie films and discussions of cinematography. I'd even say that he revels in it and realizes that he has missed it desperately since his mom got too sick to do that kind of thing. Basically, Nino will fill a spot in Adrien's heart that Adrien didn't even know was empty. Adrien can listen to Nino talk about cinematography for hours and never get bored. Before Adrien, no one knew that Nino was this talkative!

If anyone wants more insights into this topic, feel free to send an ask, but I think we'll call this post done now because it's SUPER long.

[justenjoythegossip]

CHRIS & ABBA’S LATEST PR STUNT & THE VISIBLE ENDGAME OF THE PR STRATEGY or… “WILL YOU JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY? IT HAS BEEN TWO FREAKING YEARS”…

Recap of recent events: 

Yesterday was the premiere of Red One in Berlin. Go Germany. Chris didn’t walk the red carpet before Dwayne as he was supposed to, arrived late with his wife, walked the carpet (after almost missing it) without her, played with the precious very ostentatiously for the cameras, she and Chris shared a moment together as they hugged and she gave him a look of... disgust(?). Then they were filmed sitting together for the movie and Chris seemed angry/pissed(?) at her as he gestures, seemingly does a nervous tick by pressing on his glasses and she rolls her head… #couplegoals LOL

Side note: kudos to the PR agent sitting next to Abba for her clapping as it seemingly helped indicate to her she was supposed to applaud her loving husband and also served as miraculous blocking from this angle, to show us only what they want us to see. 

She was always going to be there…

I have been asked many times if I thought Abba would show up at the premiere. And I always answered that I was 50/50 on the matter. When we learned that it was actually Justin who arranged that podcast for her, I was leaning towards no. Because why would she feel the need to go on a podcast no one asked for, if she was going to get the exposure of a big Hollywood premiere soon, right? Then we got the Avengers’ PR stunt where they endorsed Kamala Harris and Chris was flashing his ringless hand so ostentatiously. And then I immediately thought, of course she will be there. Her saying her marriage year was terrible coupled with his non wearing his wedding ring was meant to manipulate his fans into thinking the end was near and like always to add shock value to their next PR stunt. 

And of course she was going to be there, this is actually a big part of why he did this PR stunt in the first place. He wanted the world to know he was a married man and there is no better platform than a Hollywood event to push a narrative… even when you push it as discreetly as you can so that you don’t offend your fandom and the general public any further…

Why did we get a remake of what happened at the Ghosted premiere and what does this mean?

If people remember the Ghosted Premiere, they did not walk together as they infamously made their red carpet debut for the Vanity Fair party. At the time, I theorized that the reason they didn’t was because they wanted to ease his fans in as they knew there was quite a lot of backlash from his fans but also from the general public. I still think that was the case but it’s even more obvious after today’s stunt, as this was a win-win for Chris. He gets to sell the married man brand he is craving so desperately while putting his kinda wife in a corner.  Go Berlin! She gets to come but has to make sure she is not seen too much as her presence could offend his fans and a part of the general public and more importantly have an impact on his movie’s box office and his career more generally speaking. And look how his “fans” take this as a victory… 

But it’s not, it’s just more manipulation and gaslighting on Chris and his team’s part. 

Because clearly all the content of the 2 of them was not meant for the general public but destined to his fandom. And as you can see they didn’t make it to the Just Jared article this time. But they did get to sell the “we are real and private/we are just PR” narrative. Badly like always because it’s the point. 

https://www.justjared.com/2024/11/03/dwayne-johnson-lucy-liu-chris-evans-more-premiere-new-holiday-movie-red-one-in-berlin/

But now we finally get a clearer sense of why Abba felt the need to go on a podcast no one cared about for the first edition of a small festival that got little to no media coverage! She is basically reduced to a prop that has basically no voice or agency but is taken out for minimal lowkey PR stunts when it’s absolutely necessary. But since she a Nazi sex worker, I am guessing we should all be ok with this. But more on that later. 

The latest appearance of the precious ring and its use from a PR standpoint… 

I have already discussed the ring profusely and even recently when he went to the walk of fame for Kevin Feige. Here are a couple of posts where I give my 2 cents about it.

Before I dive into the latest shenanigans with the precious, it’s important to note that playing with wedding rings is very “in” right now. And so what Chris did last night was textbook CAA. Just look at what Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck recently did with theirs or even more ridiculously how Dakota flashed her engagement ring during an arranged papwalk. 

Here you can see a video of Chris with the very purposefully loose ring:

As people have pointed out, the ring is way too big, isn’t it? And clearly that’s the whole point since it feeds the “it’s only PR” narrative, isn’t it? But that’s not even the most interesting part about this little clip. Look at where the fans are on this video, then pay closer attention to the camera placement. Can you see how much emphasis the person who is filming (not a fan) is putting on the loose ring and how CURATED this all is?

And now look at Chris playing with his ring so naturally and organically (sarcasm) as the photographers are taking his picture. 

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Chris Evans Army (@cevans_army)

They want you to see it, they are showing it to you, as ostentatiously as it gets. Even when Chris plays the game of “hide the ring”, it is to draw more attention to it while trying to gain sympathy from fans who are so desperate to see a glimmer of regret in his demeanor. 

The programmed obsolescence of Team Real/Team PR and the endgame of the PR strategy 

I have discussed months ago, how this strategy of “divide and conquer” which was symbolized by the discourse and fighting between Team Real and Team PR was just a starting point. A PR strategy can only be understood and appreciated when it can be analyzed in the long run. Those 2 trolling teams were the loud extremist voices that were obnoxious and repulsive enough (in their tone or rhetoric) to drive fans away from them and the narratives they were selling, paving the way for the more reasoned and rational Team Middle. I wrote a post about it if you want to check it out. 

As Team PR and team Real have become completely redundant, all that is left is the narrative Team Middle are pushing. Notice how they purposefully keep blurring the line to disorient (classic manipulation tactics by the way) and make people accept what they are selling. And today they might distract you with the loose ring, the presence of her relatives, the not walking the red carpet together or taking pictures together (but just you wait for the NY premiere as it is just around the corner), their bad body language around each other, the awkwardness and coolness of their exchanges, her cheap outfit while he is dressed in designer clothes by his scientologist and rapist apologist stylist, or they will point out how over the top and fake he was in his reactions at the premiere and I could go on and on… All of this is true BUT it is all a distraction and misdirection. 

As they have pointed out repeatedly, it has been two years, so you should just accept it or move on. The fandom no longer needs your services if you are not capable of enjoying the content they “so kindly” provide for you. They will feed you the crumbs showing how fake it is to appease you and to distract from Chris’ complicity and manipulation as long as you behave. 

The seemingly counterintuitive promoting of this girl by plants, their vicious trolling and what purposes it serves..

So many plants allegedly hate Abba but talk about her constantly. The amount of attention she is getting from them seems incommensurable. Like posting her numbers religiously or obsessing about what she is wearing and so forth.

If it weren’t for them we would hear very little about her. For example, we would have known she was going to do a podcast in her home country only after she posted about it and not a long time before hand. It's also important to note that most of the time she is mentioned, it is in a very negative way as they usually make fun of her and humiliate her. As you know, “there is no such thing as bad publicity”. But in this instance, it’s interesting to ask ourselves why and also what purposes it serves more specifically.

Well, I have just mentioned that bad publicity is still publicly, but another key rule is: know your audience. And obviously Chris’ fandom dislikes her so intensely that talking about her in a negative way, showing animosity towards her is the smart approach to gain the trust of his fans you want to manipulate. The goal here is to paint her as an absolute villain. I am not defending her by the way as she is an awful person but she has 0 power in this story but she makes for a hell of a scapegoat in this shitshow. And indeed, people can easily project all of their disappointment, anger and negative emotions onto her in order to soothe their frustration. 

You see the industry makes you do things you don’t want to do if you let it, talent agencies are as unethical as it gets and will play an awful game if you let them, the PR wife that you selected (or agreed on) might be a POS… but at the end of the day, it’s all a reflection of your own choices and of who you are… 

NB: special thanks to friends and mods who provided me with content and shared with me their smart observations. If I don’t thank you by name it’s to protect you from being blocked LOL

[lovemyromance]

‼️ Warning: CANON TEXT AHEAD! ‼️

Elriels don't need to "force" this narrative of Elain being friends with N+C just because we want her to have ties to Azriel and a spy arc - that is already happening. It is in the canon text. that's on SJM, not Elriels

ACOWAR: There was a sparkle in Elain's eyes and she smiled making bread with them.

ACOFAS: Elain continues to spend time baking with N+C , buys them solstice presents

ACOSF: SJM BLATANTLY SAYS "as if she'd been taking lessons in stealth either from Azriel or the two half-wraiths she called friends" & says Elain had found joy and friends (In N+C specifically) in Velaris

They are friends. Just because we don't have Elain's POV doesn't change that fact. Just because Rhys pays them to take care of his household doesn't change that fact.

If they're not friends because Rhys pays them, then Gwyn isn't Nesta's friend because as HL he also provides Gwyn a place to live in the library, free of charge. Doesn't that sound absurd??

Next, Azriel & Elain are attracted to each other. They get aroused by touching each other. They want each other, badly. Again - this is not something Elriels made up. This is in canon text. There is no foreshadowing involved - it is flat out written on the pages

Azriel's bonus chapter:

You can say it's just lust. You can say he's toxic and an incel. It still doesn't change the fact that they want each other, and SJM wrote that down on the page.

Azriel is protective of Elain. He goes to rescue her himself, does not wait for anyone else to volunteer first. His shadows may vanish around her when he is comfortable and happy, but when he feels defensive of Elain, his shadows swarm him. Why tf would his shadows go crazy in her defense if they hated Elain?

ACOWAR: He is the first to notice Elain is missing. He is the first to volunteer to rescue her.

ACOSF: Azriel is visibly affected when he hears Elain might be hurt by Nesta's words. His shadows swarm him, and prepare to strike when Elain gets insulted by Nesta.

There are so many more Elriel moments that are explicitly written in the text that I could point to. So, so many because their relationship has been slowly being built up in the background for multiple books now. Why are we ignoring all their development? Why are we digging into absurd excuses to discredit the words SJM has written?

This is what the story has been setup for. If you don't like it, read something else I guess??

[physalian]

How to Make Clean Romance Entertaining

@bananasugarwarrior ask and you shall receive

As an ace/arospec, I approach writing romance very differently than many authors and this is kind of my wish-fulfillment list more than anything.

Biggest detractor of implying anything in scenes you didn’t write: You don’t have those scenes to explore character development. I touched on this in What No One Tells You About Writing #6 and the problem I ran into a few times when writing ENNS and other works is that if you fade to black, you can’t continue important conversation or an exploration of boundaries, or fluffy new emotions, if they’d otherwise be in those missing scenes. Sex scenes are, unfortunately, prime real estate for some rich character development.

So you have to work all that rich character development around it. It’s up to you where you want to draw the line of “use your imagination” but everything up to the missing smut, and after, remains more prime real estate. You have loads of other options to explore clean intimacy and some I borrowed from this list that I reblogged about ways to show non-sexual intimacy between characters.

There’s more to a relationship to explore between your characters than just how good each other is in the bedroom. Here’s a few suggestions:

Tragic Backstory stuff and emotional boundaries

One teaching the other a niche or important skill to succeed/survive

A common physical threat, like monetary problems, job insecurity, sickness, or an actual challenge/quest/adventure/mission

A common emotional threat, like a lack of communication, or exercising an anxiety or phobia, or issues over speaking their minds

A common goal: Marriage, children, a new car or home, competing for joint acceptance into a team/group/club/prize competition

There’s also plenty for your love interests to think about their significant others aside from how sexy they are and how badly they want to get in their pants.

Introvert A can love how much B is an extrovert, or vice versa

A loves that B is good with animals, or children, the elderly, etc

A can love B’s skill and passion for their hobbies or a movement they believe in, or their stances on morality and the actions they take to back it up

A can love B’s skill as a teacher, their patience, kindness, and understanding

A can love B’s relationships with their friends and family, their maturity (or lack thereof), their work ethic

A can love B’s quirks and tics, like how they organize things or if they sing in the shower or how they dance when they’re listening to headphones

Point being:

And take this with a grain of biased salt because I’m ace and think sex is superfluous anyway: If you can’t write your characters in love with each other without sex, I won’t believe they’re in love with sex. Fiction, for me, that takes the narrative shortcut of “these two are the main couple of course they’re going to get together, I don’t have to do any work on writing why they’re in love you just came here for sex” annoy me, and quite a lot of other people, too, if the amount of gay ships that ignore the canon hetero couple are anything to go by.

The arc of their relationship doesn’t have to culminate in sex. Their arc should be specific to what these two characters want to achieve out of a romantic relationship. For a lot of people, that’s sex, but for others, maybe it’s just someone to cuddle on the couch with and watch movies, or someone they can finally trust and let in and be emotionally vulnerable with. Someone they can explore the town with, or travel, or take to dinner. Someone who doesn’t belittle them or laugh at them or disregard their interests.

Substitute relationship climaxes other than sex:

A finally trusts B with a secret they’ve been hiding for fear of ridicule, and B accepts them wholeheartedly (not Liar Revealed)

A and B finally perfect some routine they’ve been slaving over for months (like a dance or if they’re combat partners, a difficult maneuver)

A has been in love, but in doubt, and finally understands that B is The One when B is the only one to show up for A’s big speech/recital/presentation/gallery that no one else cares about

A has never let themselves be in love and it’s something wholly unspectacular that completely bowls them over with an epiphany

A is touch-averse and their biggest leap into physical intimacy is a huge hug, and B can’t be prouder of them

A and B narrowly survive some dangerous situation and have a serious realignment of priorities and newfound mad respect for each other

Actually, circling back to the whole “gay ships that ignore the canon hetero couple” thing:

This has been said before but if you’re looking for how to write a romantic relationship without sex, look no further than the male leads of many mainstream pieces of pop culture. Here, the presumption of romance isn’t built in, thus the writer has to actually put in effort to make these two characters like and respect each other, and give them things to talk about that isn’t just flirting. That’s what makes them feel more believable than the main man’s relationship with the cardboard lady lead.

[ongicloud]

I wanted to go on a bit of a ramble about Misa so like

I've been seeing this sentiment recently about people expressing frustration over people ignoring Misa's wrongdoings and painting her as an innocent angel who never did any wrong. And you are all correct to point out the fact that yes, she very much DID do things wrong. The sentiment that she is pure and innocent is very much factually incorrect. She DID stalk Light and coerce her into dating him. She killed people. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on her real quick.

BUT I also want to point out that I kind of see people's love for her as almost a rebellion against the early days of the fandom. As a shonen series, a lot of the content and discussions around it were being had by anime dudebros. To add on, we KNOW how bad Ohba is about writing women. How many sexist undertones there are in all of his work. He himself has admitted with no shame that he cannot write women. (Which as a professional author should make you feel shame tbh but I digress)

When I was first getting into the fandom, Misa was pretty widely disliked as a character. The people that did like her were very much sexualizing her. The sentiment was that she was a dumb blonde bimbo unworthy amongst the genius of Light and L. There was SO much bashing of her. That came from fans that weren't the typical dudebro as well. This was peak shaming girly "shallow" girls era. The not like other girls era. I think this definitely played a role in at least some fans, now that the fandom is more chill, latching onto her as she was definitely treated pretty badly and people wanted to avenge her. Or people wised up more and thought more critically about her as a character. I think over time, that protectiveness over her, along with the somewhat humorous nature of it, morphed into the "uwu she did nothing wrong" narrative.

Additionally, I kinda have some thoughts on her as a character. I am not excusing her bad actions, maybe moreso rambling about my understanding of them.

She witnessed her family being murdered. This is stated to have happened a year before the series starts, so she was like? 16? 17? Understandably a very traumatic experience. She had to see the killer being allowed to walk free, her word, her testimony, not mattering. The man who took everything from her was allowed to walk with no repercussion while she had to live with that trauma. When Kira (aka Light) killed that man, avenged her family, it is understandable that she would form this odd parasocial relationship with him. She was mentally unstable enough to start with, griefstruck and seeing Kira as the one who helped her gain some faith in the world again.

To add onto that, she was also stalked by an obsessed fan, who after being rejected, was going to kill her. She was only saved by the sacrifice of Gelus, thus gaining the death note herself.

I see her as not an innocent angel who did nothing wrong, but as a deeply damaged young woman who had no agency in the world before this. Being hurt by multiple men, living in Japanese society which we know isn't very supportive of women in general. She finally gained some power, a way to protect herself in this world. And she saw the person, who helped her at her darkest, unbeknownst to himself, as her saviour.

Yes, she was absolutely not in the right for starting to kill people, yes she was absolutely wrong for stalking Light and forcing him to date her. I just wanted to ramble about her a little bit and give my silly little thoughts on her. I love her as a character, I can see WHY she is why she is. And it is absolutely okay to dislike her for those things! It is absolutely okay to criticize her actions because they are not okay. And yes I also believe her character missed a lot of the depth some of the other characters had simply because she was written by a misogynistic author. When I say she deserves better, I mean that she deserved MUCH better writing. But also Light is NOT innocent in their relationship either. I hope we can all still agree on that.

[bibibbon]

eveyone calling dabi touya after the reveal is making me wanna claw my eyes out because HOW IS EVERYONE MISSING THE POINT SO FUCKING BADLY

THE POINT IS THAT HE ISN’T TOUYA AND HE NEVER WILL BE AGAIN BECAUSE TOUYA IS DEAD

dabi was created from the ashes of touya and that’s literally the whole point

he can never BE touya again because of the things he’s done and the small issue that touya is legally dead

AND WHAT MAKES YOU THINK HE WANTS TO BE TOUYA AGAIN??????

he wants NOTHING to do with the todoroki’s and tries to actively distance himself from his family

ik he is so fucking pissed in the afterlife because everyone is calling him touya when he’s not touya he’s DABI

same with shigaraki. this one is definitely an unpopular opinion but people calling him tenko just feels so wrong to me

i just hate it when people think that just bc it’s technically their real names is means is *their name*

like sure my legal name is my legal name but *my name* is caleb

anyway i just wanna scream sometimes

You bring a very interesting point!!

This is something I haven't really realised, but now that you mentioned it and now that I am looking back at various different posts, I can tell how different people sometimes use dabi and touya interchangeably and yeah actually it makes sense why you're mad about it.

A core part of Dabi's character is that he is no longer Touya. Touya died the minute he went back to his old home, and everyone forgot about him, and nothing changed. The greif and emotions that young touya held to try and appease to his father burned away turning touya into ashes and that's how dabi was born.

Yes, the phoenix imagery with Dabi is strong. The death of touya, where touya turns into ashes and dabi is born from those ashes, is something so slept on by the fandom!!

People using dabi and touya interchangeably is like someone using jink and powder interchangeably. The plot for both mha and arcane has made it clear that those characters are two different people.

Jink isn't powder, and powder isn't jink. They might be the same person genetically speaking, but they aren't the same when it comes to character and personality.

The same thing goes for dabi and shigaraki. However, the plot of Mha does make it an integral part of Dabi's character it literally focuses and says it directly on chapter 350!!

Dabi, like you said, will never be touya, and touya will never be dabi. I have noticed that even when it comes to me writing my analysis, I have never really used dabi and touya interchangeably. When it comes to me talking about touya, I talk about touya, and when I talk about dabi, I talk about dabi (this doesn't make sense, but I have no way of fully explaining it tbh)

Shigaraki is a bit more complicated and a bit of a grey area. Yes, he also has the same thing as both dabi and jink, yet it's not made or focused to be an integral part of his character. I personally blame the writing for that instead.

With shigarakis character, it's kind of the opposite of jink and dabi. What I mean is that the narrative kind of goes out of its way to make it clear that shigaraki will always be tenko even if he tries to reject that. This can be seen with izuku seeing tenko or during shigaraki's fight with afo and mirio he mentions HIS backstory with HIS friends.

As much as shigaraki may try to reject it, he is tenko, and in the end, he acknowledges that. He dies as both tenko and as the leader of the leauge of villains.

[bonefall]

Ok all the other shit aside, can we acknowledge how Gray is talking to Turtle?

@crazy-as-a-jaybird

I think something critics often miss about media analysis is that it's not JUST about when characters are acting "badly" to each other. They are not people, they are tools. So, in the discussion of how WC portrays relationships, it's equally important to look at what the narrative thinks is healthy.

Gray Wing is quite controlling of Turtle Tail even when they get together officially in Book 2, after he spends all of Book 1 with the energy of a toxic friend who is oblivious to her needs and interests. She's supportive of him, but when it comes to supporting HER, conversations will eventually warp into being about himself.

HIS happiness as her husband (when she's mourning Bumble), HIS bond to his brother (when she's concerned about the violence), HIS love of her kits (when they seem to drop him as a dad when Tom's Sleeper Genes awaken in them)...

(On one hand as the King of Autism, I can understand this not coming easy. But if this is the case, you can LEARN how to center the emotions of other people! The narrative doesn't address it as an issue if this is supposed to be a problem of Gray having low empathy.)

And like, that's how he TREATS her. As narrative tools, Turtle Tail's character gets lost in service of the male arcs around her.

She only leaves The Settlers when Gray Wing is at a low point being rejected by Storm, for extra pain and loneliness for his arc.

Tom the Wifebeater appears to force her back to Gray Wing

She's not allowed to retain any bad feelings about HOW BADLY Gray Wing treates her in Book 1

Her feelings towards Bumble are suddenly harsh during the exile

Then emotional when the story needs an example character to represent "the angry crowd"

But then she's a person Gray Wing can convince into accepting his brother's innocence

Tom the Wifebeater gets to beat her up one last time in Book 3 so Gray Wing can have a coolboy protector moment defending her

Aaaaaaaaand then she dies. So Gray Wing can have his own dead wife to be sad about and oogle at at the end of his brother's Murder Party

And then she is replaced by Slate. So Gray Wing can move on.

Turts is a perfect broad example of WC's misogyny, from introduction to grave. It's not JUST the suffering a character goes through; it's how their personalities and motivations are downplayed in service of the men around them. She hits every trope EXCEPT Bad Mom. It's incredible.

[1425fivefive]

Omg share your toxic charlando thoughts!!!!!

An invitation to yap?? Anon, you’re so dear to me.

So: I view Lando and Charles as fundamentally incompatible people who differ in ways that make them an incredibly delicious toxic ship. (As a primer, I'm going to refer you to @gayferrari's essential treatise on this issue.)

For my fanfic purposes, I think there are two key issues: (1) their respective relationships to the media and (2) their emotional presentations.

Lando is just Not Good at consistently presenting himself favorably to a large portion of fans and the media, while Charles is incredible at coming off well in press.

Lando gets dunked on all the time for being immature and childish, in cooldown rooms (see incident with Lewis), on the podium (see Hungary), and on the radio (see Zandvoort). My charitable interpretation is that Lando is often acting out of frustration with himself and truly just does not know how he’s coming off (I’m biased because I competed in a highly competitive activity for years and did some … controversial things because I wanted to win so badly and hated myself when I lost). As evidence, Lando often walks things back that he’s said in the heat of the moment once he has time to reflect.

My less charitable interpretation is that he is just … kind of childish. His family is extremely wealthy, he’s spent his life in the bubble of racing and missed out on a lot of normal life experiences. It’s the same reason many tennis players are basically emotionally frozen at the age they start playing professionally.

In contrast, Charles is so fucking polished all the time. Even when Ferrari were disasters under Binotto, Charles always toed the party line. I think that he’s hyper conscious of how lucky he is to race for Ferrari and he also benefited from a relatively more “normal” upbringing.

All that’s to say, for my fanfic purposes, I think each of them just doesn’t really fuck with the other’s vibe. Lando thinks Charles is too polished to the point of being fake, which he doesn’t respect. Charles views Lando as petty and immature because he speaks his mind when he probably shouldn’t.

It all gets even more delicious when you consider the Oscar of it all. Oscar who was a fan of Lando’s, sort of acting as Lando’s second fiddle, and now he’s starting to match Landos performances and befriending Charles? (See Adoption Saga, multiple podiums, cooldown room in Baku). Gorgeous, beautiful, so much potential for jealousy when someone you like likes someone you don’t fuck with.

Obviously I have lots of thoughts and I am writing a very horny fic about it lmao. And again, I’m approaching this from “what makes good narratives from my fics” not “what do I think is objectively, demonstrably true.” At the end of the day, I have no idea how these guys actually feel about each other. I also am a massive fan of both so… do with that what you will.

[the-brash-spud]

Not gonna lie. The more I look into how they portray Bruce grieving about Jason, the more disappointed I am. They want to hurt him mentally all the time yet won't allow him to go through said mental aggony. It just seems to be so indecisive by the writers.

For example I find the whole thing of Batman wanting to off Joker in his grief and being stopped by Superman as cool and shit, but if they went with that as to why Batman didn't kill Joker then it should have continued for longer.

I mean, I would've loved a small series where Batman is out for blood. As in, he goes out of his way to try to track down the Joker and actually kill him, so all of JL needs to take turns to be on a bat duty. I think it would've been so heavy for us to watch through their eyes just how badly Batman went off kilter with grief, to the point they have to go out of their way to make sure their friend doesn't do something stupid.

Of course, he'd also manage to work around them, or generally when they're not there as everyone has their own lives. So sooner or later, he will definitely have tracked Joker. Let's say that after the initial murder attempt, he tried to do it three times more before stopping completely.

Maybe because Tim showed up or because he went to grief counselling, and as much as he was still heavily grieving (and still being hard on criminals), he doesn't go out of his way to kill Joker and people wanting to associate with him. Maybe that's when Tim showed up? Before, he was too afraid to make Bruce stop with his brutality by threats as then he was just as likely (in Tim's mind) to off him in his quest to avenge, but now (even though still shaking like a wet cold puppy) he could try to make Batman stop with being so hard on criminals. I think it would be a great wake-up call that a child that was afraid of him so much that he was shaking just looking at him but still felt as if they had to do something to stop Batman. Can you imagine the guilt? When you were supposed to give people hope from within the darkness of Gotham but lost your way so much, you were pretty much chocking out that hope and safety of better future? Making a child feel like they had to confront you? I'd imagine that guilt would've been a great narrative block to their relationship if explored further.

Additionally, imagine being a Joker goon at that time of grieving. You're used to having a gun be hit out of your hand with a battarang. That's normal, but this time, it got logged into the wall right by your head? And Batman loudly grunted in anger or however you would describe it. You'd think he was annoyed that he missed, but something is clearly off. The battarang seems a bit too sharp, too much like a knife, and thrown a bit too close to your face to be accidental. And when the sinking feeling of danger really sends in, you're in a whole world of pain before waking up in a hospital, most likely with at least one injury that won't heal fully.

Just saying, the writers fumbled a bit.

[pagannatural]

Season 1. Wincest Narrative

The way this story unfolds is so, so beautiful and I lose my mind a little when I think about it as a whole. When it opens, the brothers haven’t spoken in 3 or 4 years even though they've both desperately wanted to, and they both think the other doesn't want them. The first time they see each other after Sam walks out, they struggle in the dark and pin each other to the ground and then run away together.

Season character arcs

Sam begins the season ostensibly satisfied with his life at Stanford, with a career plan and a long-term relationship. Two things have to happen to disrupt that- Dean coming back into his life, and Jessica being killed. Kind of a switcheroo. 

Sam was going to marry his Dean-replacement girlfriend. He was never going to talk about his past even though he still thought about it all the time, still looked up cases and tried to follow along with what was happening in Dean’s life. He was going to box his past up and put it away forever and pretend to fit in because this is the life he chose, and because Dean didn't pick him. And then Dean literally breaks through Sam's careful barriers and all it takes is a gruff “yeah well I don’t want to [do this without you]", and Sam packs his bags. He doesn't even look back when Jessica asks where he’s going. He doesn’t kiss her goodbye. 

The way Dean appears to Sam as this dangerous, rough-around-the-edges, so familiar and so alive and so secret fork in the road is just delicious.

Dean starts the season believing that Sam has rejected and abandoned him. He wants his little brother back so badly, but he truly thinks Sam doesn’t want him. He finally has something to approach Sam with that maybe Sam will care about enough to come back to him- their dad, missing. I haven't seen this episode but I know later in the show Dean says he waited for hours outside before he broke in, agonizing over what Sam would say.

Over the course of the season Dean pursues Sam and shows him that he will protect him, keep him safe, choose him, respect him, and save him. The one thing he won't do is corrupt him, which is what he believes their feelings for each other would do. That's a conflict he'll bring into next season, but Sam decides to love him anyway. Sam tries so hard to hold onto the world outside of Dean but he ends up succumbing. By the end of the season, they’ve accepted that they're the most important things to each other.

John’s role is crucial to Sam and Dean’s relationship

Sam wants to belong and to be his own person. John is the force dictating his life before he leaves, so he has to get away from John. It’s not possible for Sam to grow up without breaking from his dad.

John gives bundled baby Sammy to Dean the night of the fire and that’s pretty much the way their relationships with each other form. John has handed Sam off to Dean. They hold conflicting positions in Sam’s life. 

John is a larger-than-life god-like figure to Dean. He’s distant and he has all the answers and all the power and his word is law, and Dean’s contract with him is to Take Care of Sam. So Dean serves this purpose under John’s rule until they reach a point at which Dean can’t take care of Sam without breaking from John and growing up. That rupture came to a head when Sam left for Stanford and Dean takes his first steps toward replacing John when John goes missing, by going to Sam. Dean makes the first move after years have passed to reconnect, something not even John would do.

Sam and Dean are fighting against getting close again for different reasons

Sam wishes he could have a normal life. A normal life is by necessity also a life distant from Dean. In the first episode, when Dean drops Sam off at Stanford and tells him they made a pretty good team, Sam looks conflicted and chokes out a “yeah” before watching Dean drive away. He knows they make a good team, that’s not the problem. Throughout this season, he is at war with wanting to be with Dean vs wanting to be normal.

From the very first episode and throughout the entire season, it’s obvious that they were very close before Sam left. They make each other angry and they make each other laugh and they communicate just by looking at each other- strategizing and seeking each other’s opinions and assessing each other’s needs in glances. They instantly fold back into each other’s lives, they save each other over and over. They gravitate toward each other and walk in sync and stand in each other’s spaces. There’s this sense that they know one another, not just better than anyone else, but better than anyone could ever possibly know them. It's clear to the viewer that they're matching puzzle pieces.

And I don’t think Sam’s conflict is actually about hunting versus normal at all. Sam rediscovers his love and aptitude for hunting right away. He feels fulfilled, admires Dean, and enjoys himself much of the time. In “It’s a Terrible Life” (s4) he still asks Dean to run away with him and be hunters together in an alternate universe. So his conflict centers on John and Dean. 

At this point Sam thinks Dean sided with John and abandoned him when he stopped hunting. But it’s more than feeling hurt and abandoned by Dean- Sam literally cannot have both Dean and a life. Dean is all-consuming. Sam could get the things he needs from Dean- belonging and respect- if it weren’t for two things: 1, Dean is still unwilling to break from John in a way that matters and 2, the way that they love each other is so abnormal it feels impossible.

Sam is unwilling to put Dean above everything else because it is in fact a dichotomy- Dean is bigger than just a brother, he can’t fit into Sam’s life as just another part of it. Sam knows that. 

Dean’s conflicts mirror Sam’s. Sometimes he resents hunting and wishes his life could’ve been normal. He faces the same dichotomy- once he becomes more independent from John, he can either have a family and home of his own or he can have Sam, and he hates himself partly because what he wants more is Sam. He knows that's not normal and thinks a part of Sam hates him for it. One reason their connection is so fraught with guilt and shame is because it's sexual/psychosexual, which is why I personally tag everything wincest. The way sexual and romantic relationships are so often a blatant point of conflict between them, the way their scenes are often shot like sex scenes, the jealousy and possessiveness, the way they touch each other, the fact that they see each other as desirable. It all points to a love complicated by sex. I have no problem with the idea of them as platonic soulmates, but I honestly think the text supports just straight-up wincest.

And actually they're not soulmates

They're twin flames. The idea that they're soulmates comes in later, but I think it's more precise and also more useful to the narrative to understand them as twin flames.

Twin flames are one soul split into two people, and their purpose is to cause one another to grow and be challenged by their connection. They're halves and also mirrors. That's why their dynamic is so often this push-pull, why their connection is so palpable, why they find each other in every universe and why they know each other so impossibly deeply. Narratively, one is often pursuing the other and they tend to push each other to the deepest depths of highs and lows. They separate, but they always come back to each other.

[bunnakit]

ok im going to try to articulate my thoughts on why i'm, personally, not bothered with the writing and what we've seen of the backstory in The Sign.

would i like to see more of their past? absolutely, however, with the limitations of episode count, the budget for special effects, etc. i totally understand the limited view we're getting and personally i do think they give us everything we need to know.

based on the amount of parallels we're seeing between this life and their first life we can pretty safely use current day phaya and tharn as a cipher to unlock their backstory to their previous life.

we see wansarut bold and unapologetic in the face of sakuna? is that his name in the book? remains unclear to me but sure. garuda!phaya. we see garuda!phaya push her boundaries and push to get closer to her despite her protests. this is a direct correlation to present day tharn and phaya and the dance they've done with their relationship. with this in mind we can pretty much assume their relationship formed similarly, through a back and forth, clash of personalities, meeting on common ground, and finally wansarut's walls coming down to let sakuna in where he then simply adores her in the same manner phaya adores tharn.

again, i would love to see that journey, but i'm okay not seeing it when i use the context clues given by the rest of the narrative to fill in those gaps. i personally find it fun to imagine what may have been different, what may have been the same, etc. i think it gives fanfic authors and creative types the opportunity to play with the characters and connect to them in their own ways. i don't always think we need to know every tiny detail of the characters we love as this allows us to see more of ourselves in them.

as for the way modern day phaya and tharn's relationship has been written i also haven't been upset with that either. there's a certain magnetism we've seen between them that draws them together in the way tharn instinctively leans into phaya immediately in episode 1, the way he wants so very badly to kiss phaya in episode 2, etc. i think it's been a beautiful waltz between them, a careful give and take, you step back and i step forward until our steps reduce and we meet in the middle.

there is a point to be made for how quickly things progressed after the kiss but these are two people whose instincts and bodies have been calling to each other on a soul deep level and i don't think it's entirely out of the realm of possibility to say that perhaps in that moment they became wansarut and sakuna again, they had the opportunity to greet each other again and say 'i've missed you.'

i think you can gain a lot from The Sign by looking at it through a romantic lens rather than something purely analytical, but that could just be me and my romantic whimsy.

as for everything about their karma, i'm simply not educated on that aspect of things enough and i'm not really worrying about it. i'm just kind of viewing it as some kind of misfortune on both of them for the perceived slight against chalothorn and rolling with it.

all this to say everyone's thoughts are completely valid. i've really enjoyed seeing the differing thoughts and gaining a different perspective from my own. i think the one thing we can all agree on is that these two deserve to be happy and be at peace and i hope we get to see that.