#but when everyone else decides that the wilderness Chose javi

[mag200]

something about the way misty says "if you save him the others will get you." she has already decided that she will not participate in killing natalie, like she left the cabin and was running around with everyone, already with the intention of helping natalie if she could even without javi drowning.

[jackieshaunanat]

insane because whether you believe in the wilderness or not it still chose javi by the rules the yellowjackets decided on. when everyone pulled a card, he didn’t pull the queen, but he’s the one who found the card to begin with, he’s the first person to have the queen, he pulled her before anyone else because he knew where it was hiding (i think it may have been in the cave he stayed in during those months he was missing) and brought it back and returned it to the deck

[misquigleya]

going to put under a read more as it got long and there are spoilers pertaining to the newest episode. so don't click the read more if you're not caught up!

"Eight of diamonds meaning is unpredictable. On a rainy day this card announces obstacles and efforts without success. On a sunny day – on the contrary – it means good prospects for business. The deeper message of the Eight of spades is that of prudence. Even if it is sunny outside, take an umbrella."

Find it interesting that Misty drew the eight of diamonds and is someone that is unpredictable and always has been. She's shown that side of herself out in the wilderness a lot so the fact that she drew that card, it makes sense. One minute she's the one making the rules for the game and making sure each party involves understands them as well as the surrounding spectators to being the first one to break them.

"In a Tarot reading, the Eight of Diamonds can indicate that you are feeling stressed about making decisions. You may be overloaded and feel like your responsibilities have taken over your life. It might also mean that there is an issue with indecision or difficulties in reaching conclusions."

Misty does struggle with making decisions and she showed it in episode eight "It Chooses". We see her being the one to take on that role of leadership with being the one to go from person to person as they decide their own fates. And throughout all of them, she hardly reacts until Natalie. When the queen card is drawn, we see that Misty shows just as much shock as the others have but there's something else to be noted. And that is the fact that if followed closely, you can see that she looks to Travis as she looks to her left in the general location of where he was standing with Javi. So that could have easily been a "we need to save her somehow" or simply she was looking in that direction trying to process what this meant for someone she cares about.

Though if we fast forward to the chase scene, Misty does go after her and does participate in the hunt as everyone else does. But this is where the stressing about making decisions comes into play; will she actually take part in bringing the prey [Natalie] down or will she stand by and observe while the others do it? We know that none of them do get a hold of Nat or Javi for that matter. That the Wilderness chose with the ice breaking and him falling into the frigid waters. And as Natalie calls for the others to help her, Misty is the only one who does come forward and though it's not the way that Natalie wanted help, Misty did help her by saving her.

"If you save him, the OTHERS will kill you" this line stuck out and has been sticking out to me since watching the episode. It's the way Misty chooses to use the word "others" instead of "we" or "we'll" or any kind of variation that includes herself in killing Natalie. So this decision making can be deduced to Misty reaching a pivotal and greatly important conclusion with saving Natalie from the others as well as going into the lake ( either being dragged down with Javi or going in after him as she had already shown a clear sign of taking that step if need be as we saw with her reaction to them losing the moose in previous episode. ) It is both a personal and logical decision as she knows that Natalie has provided for them since the first deer kill in season one. She [Misty] knows that if Natalie is taken out, that their own demise will follow suit as she has put most of her faith in the other girl in keeping them alive; this faith is divided between Lottie and Natalie as she believes in both of them and knows that without either of them, they're fucked. And overall, we've seen that Misty will always choose Natalie over anyone else as it's been shown in present time many times; snorting the cocaine to keep her from relapsing, spying on her despite knowing it's morally wrong, destroying her car so that she could go with to find Travis, etc. Everything she has done, whether morally correct or incorrect, has been done with Natalie's best interest at heart and it has been that way since the wilderness.

[misquigley]

going to put under a read more as it got long.

“Eight of diamonds meaning is unpredictable. On a rainy day this card announces obstacles and efforts without success. On a sunny day – on the contrary – it means good prospects for business. The deeper message of the Eight of spades is that of prudence. Even if it is sunny outside, take an umbrella.”

Find it interesting that Misty drew the eight of diamonds and is someone that is unpredictable and always has been. She’s shown that side of herself out in the wilderness a lot so the fact that she drew that card, it makes sense. One minute she’s the one making the rules for the game and making sure each party involves understands them as well as the surrounding spectators to being the first one to break them.

“In a Tarot reading, the Eight of Diamonds can indicate that you are feeling stressed about making decisions. You may be overloaded and feel like your responsibilities have taken over your life. It might also mean that there is an issue with indecision or difficulties in reaching conclusions.”

Misty does struggle with making decisions and she showed it in episode eight “It Chooses”. We see her being the one to take on that role of leadership with being the one to go from person to person as they decide their own fates. And throughout all of them, she hardly reacts until Natalie. When the queen card is drawn, we see that Misty shows just as much shock as the others have but there’s something else to be noted. And that is the fact that if followed closely, you can see that she looks to Travis as she looks to her left in the general location of where he was standing with Javi. So that could have easily been a “we need to save her somehow” or simply she was looking in that direction trying to process what this meant for someone she cares about.

Though if we fast forward to the chase scene, Misty does go after her and does participate in the hunt as everyone else does. But this is where the stressing about making decisions comes into play; will she actually take part in bringing the prey [Natalie] down or will she stand by and observe while the others do it? We know that none of them do get a hold of Nat or Javi for that matter. That the Wilderness chose with the ice breaking and him falling into the frigid waters. And as Natalie calls for the others to help her, Misty is the only one who does come forward and though it’s not the way that Natalie wanted help, Misty did help her by saving her.

“If you save him, the OTHERS will kill you” this line stuck out and has been sticking out to me since watching the episode. It’s the way Misty chooses to use the word “others” instead of “we” or “we’ll” or any kind of variation that includes herself in killing Natalie. So this decision making can be deduced to Misty reaching a pivotal and greatly important conclusion with saving Natalie from the others as well as going into the lake ( either being dragged down with Javi or going in after him as she had already shown a clear sign of taking that step if need be as we saw with her reaction to them losing the moose in previous episode. ) It is both a personal and logical decision as she knows that Natalie has provided for them since the first deer kill in season one. She [Misty] knows that if Natalie is taken out, that their own demise will follow suit as she has put most of her faith in the other girl in keeping them alive; this faith is divided between Lottie and Natalie as she believes in both of them and knows that without either of them, they’re fucked. And overall, we’ve seen that Misty will always choose Natalie over anyone else as it’s been shown in present time many times; snorting the cocaine to keep her from relapsing, spying on her despite knowing it’s morally wrong, destroying her car so that she could go with to find Travis, etc. Everything she has done, whether morally correct or incorrect, has been done with Natalie’s best interest at heart and it has been that way since the wilderness.

[silencedrage]

like before, unstructured mostly incoherent thoughts while i rewatch. disclaimer for people who don't like nuance: none of this is supposed to read as an excuse for the shitty things all of these women do, just my thoughts on where their mental states are during these moments. obvious spoilers for the s2 finale under the cut

will there be anything more heartbreaking than travis' happy 'natalie!' only for him to understand what happened

a little bit obsessed with the way van walks back to camp. half of liv's face is covered up and you only see their eyes, and it's just so??? everyone else can't look at travis or looks apologetic or even regretful, and van is trying so so hard to keep stoic that she's practically glaring and for a second her eyes cut to travis, and whew liv hewson the actor that you are. now i'm even more upset they're sitting out of the emmy race because i think this is just the start of van's arc

'the wilderness chose' the way i audibly gasped when nat said this. it's the first time she's said anything about the wilderness being any kind of entity with power and it's certainly a way for her to try and assuage her guilt with travis because there's really no other option. to say anything otherwise is to admit that she let javi die in her stead and while she can admit that to ben, she can't admit that to travis

the way lottie just picked up that cup and was ready to throw it back.... homegirl is so ready to die and be free of all this and my heart hurts for her especially because we know so much of this trauma stems for what other people placed on her (and the way van and shauna were the ones to protest the loudest)

something about the way lottie is on her knees, looking up at shauna as shauna tries to stall and buy them time, and then how she goes in for a hug, which is so poignant given how simone said repeatedly that lottie puts physical distance between herself and shauna after the beating, but she's so fucking relieved that someone is (seemingly) believing her. like two things can be true at once: lottie is unraveling and going off the rails, and she's also a woman who has spent her entire life being called crazy and not being believed and that's the tragedy of it all

the way we were all clowning on shauna for being a shitty liar and she somehow manages to pull of the best lie all season, the jokes write themselves

i didn't notice this in my first watch but van's entire face during that scene speaks VOLUMES and lauren ambROSE THE ACTOR YOU ALSO ARE. from the moment that shauna reveals behind lottie's back that she's not actually believing her, and the look she gets on her face when tai 'agrees' and starts playing along. it's not agreement or acquiescence, it's discomfort and uncertainty about this plan. she is the only one who doesn't say anything while the rest of them are like "oh yeah, the hunt, we need masks and weapons and cards"

and after lottie leaves, they're all talking about what to "do" with lottie and start planning on committing her again, and you can see the coin drop for van. "this isn't just about her mental illness" like do you think van is reminiscing about the post-rescue, how they all abandoned lottie to be sent away to a mental institution to hold a majority of the blame for something that they all did? something that lottie didn't even choose to initially participate in?

and that literally spins right into the scene with young misty and lottie, where lottie outright says that she never wanted this. all she said was "if i die, don't waste my body". the others were the ones who decided to take that and turn it into the hunt, and i stand by the fact that's why van can't let this plan go on. the reality is that van was a key factor in all of this happening. she was one of the first to give lottie this kind of deference that she probably didn't deserve. she was the one who came up with the rules for the hunt. everyone else may have been able to convince themselves over the last 20 years that they all "got over it" but the whole show clearly depicts that they have not. that was the entire point of them hashing everything out in the sharing shack. they haven't healed, they haven't gotten over it, and locking up lottie isn't going to do anything for them other than be a bandaid

'why was travis screaming?' ugh she cares so much!! and misty twisting her words to the others, i 100% get it narratively, but god damn it makes me hurt knowing that this is what it spawns. misty understands that the others need lottie's blessing for the hunt because if they don't have it, this carefully-constructed facade they built up comes crashing down. if lottie says, no this is not what the fucking wilderness wanted, then they have to face the fact that the wilderness didn't choose, they did. and i fully believe misty did this to protect natalie, just like she protected natalie in the prior ep. because yes the others would break down, but natalie is already dealing with the guilt that she watched javi drown to save her own life, but then to hear that it's not actually what lottie meant? that would destroy the entire group so i GET it but also... i just hurt for lottie because she never asked for any of this.

"you started this. it's done" idk man, to say that she tried to get people to connect with nature in an attempt to keep people levelheaded in an extreme circumstance and that's what directly led to cannibalism? mm seems like a stretch but... the saddest part is that lottie believes misty when she says that. she believes that she is the cause for everything that's happened and that's so... heartbreaking for me because we as the audience know that's not the whole story. and i have to ask myself, how much of what happens in the adult timeline would be different if lottie had said "no this isn't right?" obviously then we probably wouldn't have much of a show, but to be able to see the different threads that lead to certain actions, it pains me that lottie is always suffering the brunt of it

the dried tear tracks on shauna's face during the butchering scene, god seriously emmy nominee sophie nelisse when?? like she is drowning in postpartum hormones, just suffered through a stillbirth, and now she has to carve up a boy that she had gotten somewhat close with. a boy she's had conversations with, maybe even a boy her son would've gotten along with if he had lived. and she's struggling so much. tai and nat don't really know what to do and it's van, again with both the pragmatic and the childlike, doing a simple act of turning his head away so shauna doesn't have to see. it prompts shauna to pull her headcover over her eyes. with jackie, they were delirious and hallucinating. there's no such comfort for this moment, not for any of them.

and once again, van cannot bring herself to look away. even when shauna tells them to leave, she lingers, watching the blood drain from javi because again, she owes at least that much to him.

"if she is, then so are you" the way van did not pull any punches with that line and the look on tai's face knows it. and i don't think she was manipulating tai here to try and save lottie, and i don't think she was trying to bargain with the wilderness to save her own life. i think she was calling the shots as she saw them. van has shown a resilience to death, but she also is ready to accept if things happen. after the wolf attack, she insists that tai let the others go back. she was fully accepting of her diagnosis when she spoke with tai a few episodes back. the others reveal that they have repressed their memories, enough that they're hazy and dreamlike, but van has always known what they've done. she may have run from it, but she's never forgotten it. and then she's sitting in the middle of the sharing shack, listening to how all of these people VERY CLEARLY still have elements of that darkness in them, how they never "got over it" like natalie claimed, and while denial can work for a time, van is tired of them clinging to that denial especially at lottie's expense

and at the end of that conversation, van calls back their pact, the same one that has linked them for years. shauna even alludes to it earlier. "it's just about us." "we handle this ourselves. we protect each other. didn't we all swear we would?" no one who wasn't there will ever be fully able to understand what they went through, and that is van's point. people can empathize without having to experience the same things, but this is so extreme, and something that has been festering for 25 years. and!! even if they do commit lottie, that literally does nothing re: the adam martin situation as far as they know! there's no way that van would've been able to know how things would play out, and i don't think that she actually wanted to participate in the hunt. i just think she wasn't ready to throw lottie away for the second time and let her take all the blame for something that their shared responsibility. van is making them look at the monster that they all had a hand in creating

something something natalie had the card first and then she brought it to shauna (not that she took it) but maybe that's the other way of 'choosing'?

jeff and callie daddy/daughter bonding over crimes, we love to see it

lisanat and natben parallels: the mentor telling the younger one that they don't have to be these people/they don't have to stay here. nat refusing ben's offer because of her guilt, but also her guilt being what pushes her to warn lisa to leave

that van and travis scene, just more of van being tired of dancing around what everyone already knows and telling it like it is. there is no room for guilt or shame in this moment because they can't afford for there to be. they are trying to survive, and human instinct on that front wins out over the emotional beats. van knows this especially well, just like natalie does. the two of them arguably understood long before this place that the world is cruel and the people who least deserve it are the ones who suffer. is it dark? absolutely, but it's fitting for where van's arc has been heading this entire time. she wants to live. she wants her friends to live. including travis. it's manipulative in many regards, but it's manipulating him to survive. for van right now, she has to believe in that. where she lands on that 20 years later, is another story

walter really was great ngl, i thoroughly enjoyed his scheming

i wonder what the heart was made of

i just have a lot of feelings about van's loyalty, misplaced as it may be. i think she would've done the same for tai, shauna, natalie, misty, any one of them if they were the ones in lottie's position. she has consistently reminded them over and over that this is not just lottie's mental illness, no matter how much they wish it was. they spent years pretending, but look at that, nothing has changed, so why continue throwing someone under the bus, someone you promised to protect? do i agree with her choice to continue on with the ritual and not tell the others about calling off the crisis team? not necessarily, i think that should've come out earlier, but at the same time, i understand why she feels so strongly about this and also natalie got jealous over walter again

but i do think the turning point came for van while they were standing around the fire. ptsd will evoke the same emotions and feelings that those original trauma memories held, and for this crew, that trauma is so complex. it's horrific what they had to go through, but also there was a freedom in it. there was something more grounding about life out there, at least for van who had a shitty home life and nothing she missed about wiskayok, and i think standing around that fire brought back those feelings of freedom for van. freedom from societal expectations, freedom from her diagnosis, freedom from the pain of having to suffer through this stagnant life. it's a heady feeling, and hard to fight against, and like van says in the younger timeline, she's not ashamed of wanting to live. i don't know if she's fully thought through the consequences of what it means to go through with the ritual, but i think she has found a glimmer of hope for the first time in 20 years and she can't bear to let it go. and as much as i hate to say this, i fear a part of her thought that the wilderness would take her because she was already living on borrowed time

the only thing i wish that had happened in this episode was that callie should've shot pornstache

those parallel looks from taivan in the card drawing scene hhhhhh and the little slump of relief that lauren gives, even though van's the one to prompt this. it's the exact. same. thing as 2x08

something about travis and misty both being the ones to pull the ace in the card drawing scenes and how they're left with massive survivor's guilt at the end of it

nat and misty both keeping their hands in their pockets, nat with her knife and misty with her syringe. we love murder gfs

okay but the second go around of the card draws, van is much... more hesitant, whereas tai is the one nodding? is that other tai? van's literally flinching as she draws the card and idk what to make of it

i also didn't notice this last night but during the card draw montage, they show shots of everyone drawing cards multiple times, but not van. like van draws a second time, they go around the circle, and then it skips from lottie to tai and everyone gets at least 1-2 more draws that we see, but we don't get one from van. i wonder if this is the show's way of subtly hinting that van would be safe this round? but who knows, it's just something i noticed

i really do think other tai is here in this moment. shauna draws the card and she goes straight for the masks and the knives, not even sparing a look for her best friend. maybe it was van's conversation earlier with tai that pulled her out? i feel like every time people reference adult tai getting help, an appearance by other tai is not that far off. perhaps this is other tai's way of saving van, but at the expense of real tai's relationships (like she's done with simone and sammy)? idk i'm just intrigued

"there was no it, it was just us." "is there a difference?" THE WAY I YELLED because this has been the ENTIRE POINT all along. it doesn't MATTER if there was something supernatural out there pushing along the way, or mental illness and trauma coming out at seams, or if it was just general teenage girl cruelty in a world that didn't live by society's rules? does it matter which it actually was? the consequences are still there, the actions were still made. people still died. pawning off that responsibility on some otherworldly being might work for a while, but everything since the start of the show has been repeatedly pressing the button that it's all gonna come out eventually. you can't repress these things without consequence

i see a lot of takes about how it was only van and lottie who were into the hunt but that.... is not really true. all of them were into it up until the point callie enters the picture. they were all running and whooping and i think that's critical to this. they all fall back into it, even if they want to say they're "over it"

"she's so powerful" baby daddy lottie matthews 🥰 but also just having heard about callie in the goat conversation, but her only frame of reference is a stillborn baby, but the she sees callie, righteous and indignant and yes, powerful. and she's honestly thrilled that shauna got that

"it's not right. she's like this because of us." THANK YOU VAN like yes lottie is literally going off the rails but they cannot just IGNORE the roles that they played to lead to this exact moment and the way lottie hears the wilderness again, going right into the scene where she crowns natalie as aq because she can't hear the wilderness anymore and everyone else does. it's coming back full circle and the way the narrative does this is so so good. she comes down, beaten and bruised and she doesn't even have to say a fucking word before they're all coming to her in relief and gladness and she's been stewing over this belief that she caused this. and she realized that what misty said in the attic, to some extent is true. the team needs her, or they believe they need her, and i think this is a moment of true lucidity and clarity for lottie, something stronger than the wilderness that has been whispering in her ear this entire time

storyteller van is so important to me. she's always been someone to fall into fictional worlds, to use stories as her coping mechanism. the others ask her to retell the synopsis of a movie and she instead chooses to begin telling the story of the wilderness. and it's just another coping mechanism. if she says 'once upon a time' and 'happily ever after' then that's what it is, right?

but lottie interrupts her because this isn't a story and this isn't a happy ending. and she voices for the first time that she never asked to be crowned the leader, and she's wondering whether she's completely misinterpreted everything. maybe what people say about her is true, and she is just crazy and someone that can't be trusted. and so she passes the torch to natalie. she still believes that the wilderness exists, but she believes that she's the wrong voice for it now. and maybe that's true. maybe she was necessary to get them the first step, but she's no longer the right leader for the job. passing the torch onto natalie is a nice idea, but the others only follow her lead because lottie insists on it. "you were always its favorite."

there is something about the reluctant leader who begrudgingly accepts admiration, and lottie and nat both fill that role. both of them are outsiders in some regards, opposite ends of those spectrum, but still two girls who grew up neglected by the people who should have cared for them the most. why wouldn't they appreciate people listening to them and paying attention to them? but with that comes the guilt that we see in both of them. it recontextualizes the way they talk earlier in the season. before i thought lottie acknowledging her role in the wilderness was just more of a growth thing, but now i think it directly ties into her passing that crown to natalie, as someone who intimately understands the burdens of it. and she finds natalie, 20 years later and ready to kill herself, and she has to save her. because she was part of the reason natalie lives with such guilt in the first place, and lottie is trying to own up to that.

i'm not overly going to get into what happened at the end of the episode as people have their own stances on it. i think that it narratively fit for natalie, especially in the context of the show. my main focus is that this is one of the few times in the series that natalie has agency and uses it for herself. she deliberately chose to step in between misty and lisa, because she's not willing to have another innocent person's death on her hands. natalie is well aware that death is inevitable, and often beyond our control, and i think that her making this deliberate choice is the type of ending the character would've wanted. she wants to believe in herself that she can be a good person, even when the rest of the world isn't, and she's been thwarted at every turn, and if anything, i like to think she found some peace in that final decision being hers.

last thing in this already way too long post: taivan's "we're gonna come check on you" to lottie. the naked terror in lottie's eyes, she knows exactly what she's destined for because it's what happened 20 years ago. and she doesn't know if she can believe them when they say they won't abandon her again. the difference now is that she hears the wilderness again. it's unclear whether it ever comes back to her in the rest of the 96 timeline, but again, talk about full circle.

i've honestly exhausted my last braincell watching this episode again so i know there's a lot more that i haven't fully touched on or parts that i want to dig into a little deeper, but in the meantime have this unnecessarily long post about the episode so i can maybe get some work done today.

friday morning means coffee + a rewatch of the latest ep. thoughts to follow here because somehow this ep was even more contentious than the last