#but we don't have the stuff to record this......

[badnewswhatsleft]

rock sound #312 (nov 2024)

transcript below cut:

ROCK SOUND 25 ICON

FALL OUT BOY

A BAND THAT CAPTURED THE HEARTS, MINDS AND HEADPHONES OF A GENERATION OF KIDS WORLDWIDE, FALL OUT BOY UNDOUBTEDLY CHANGED THE LANDSCAPE OF THE ALTERNATIVE SCENE FOREVER, NEVER AFRAID TO EXPERIMENT, TAKE CHANCES AND MAKE BOLD CHOICES AS THEY PUSHED FORWARD. FOLLOWING A SUMMER SPENT EXPLORING THE 'DAYS OF FALL OUT PAST', PATRICK STUMP AND PETE  WENTZ REFLECT ON THEIR PATH FROM POP PUNK, HARDCORE MISFITS TO ALL-CONQUERING, STADIUM-FILLING SONGWRITERS AS THEY ACCEPT THEIR ROCK SOUND 25 ICON AWARD.

WORDS JAMES WILSON-TAYLOR

PHOTOS ELLIOTT INGHAM

Let's begin with your most recent performance which was at When We Were Young festival in Las Vegas. It was such a special weekend, how are you reflecting on that moment?

PATRICK: It's wild, because the band, I think, is going on 23 years now, which really came as a surprise to me. I know it's this thing that old people always say, 'Man, it really goes by so fast', but then it happens to you and you're just taken aback. There were so many times throughout the weekend, every 10 minutes, where I'd turn around and see somebody and be like, 'Holy shit, I haven't seen you in 18 years', or something crazy like that. It was hard not to have a good time. When I was going up to perform with Motion City Soundtrack, which was an exciting thing in itself, I turn around and Bayside is there. And I haven't seen Bayside since we toured with them. God, I don't remember when that was, you know? So there was so much of that. You couldn't help but have a good time.

PETE: I mean, that's an insane festival, right? When they announce it, it looks fake every time. The lineup looks like some kid drew it on their folder at school. For our band, the thing that's a little weird, I think, is that by deciding to change between every album, and then we had the three year break which caused another big time jump, I think that it would be hard for us to focus on one album for that show. We're a band where our fans will debate the best record. So it was amazing that we were able to look backwards and try to build this show that would go through all the eras - nod to Taylor obviously on that one. But it's also an insane idea to take a show that should really be put on for one weekend in a theatre and then try to take it around the world at festivals. The whole time on stage for this particular show production, I'm just like 'Is this thing going to go on time?' Because if the whole thing is working totally flawlessly, it just barely works, you know what I mean? So I give a lot of credit to our crew for doing that, because it's not really a rock show. I know we play rock music and it's a rock festival, but the show itself is not really a rock production, and our crew does a very good job of bending that to fit within the medium.

That show allows you to nod to the past but without falling fully into nostalgia. You are still pushing the band into newer places within it.

PATRICK: That's always been a central thing. We're a weird band, because a lot of bands I know went through a period of rejecting their past, and frankly, I encounter this thing a lot, where people have expected that we stopped interacting with older material. But we always maintained a connection with a lot of the older music. We still close with 'Saturday'. So for us, it was never about letting go of the past. It was about bringing that along with you wherever you go. I'm still the same weird little guy that likes too much music to really pin down. It's just that I've carried that with me through all the different things that I've done and that the band has done. So for us, in terms of going forward and playing new stuff, that's always the thing that's important to me; that there should be new stuff to propel it. I never wanted to be an artist that just gave up on new music and went out and played the hits and collected the check and moved on. It's all got to be creative. That's why I do it. I want to make new music. That's always why I do it. So something like When We Were Young is kind of odd really. It's an odd fit for that, because it's nostalgic, which is not really my vibe all that much. But I found a lot of nostalgia in it. I found a lot of value in looking back and going 'Wow, this was really cool. It was amazing that we did this, that we all did this'. That scene of bands, we're all old now, but it has taken off into such a moment culturally that people can point to.

Let's jump all the way back to the first ever Fall Out Boy show. There is very little evidence of it available online but what are your memories of that performance?

PATRICK: So the very first Fall Out Boy show was at DePaul University in a fancy looking dining hall. I actually applied to DePaul, but I never went there because the band went on tour. I think there were only two or three other bands. One was a band called Stillwell, who were kind of a math rock emo band, and then this heavier, more metallic band. And then we were there, and we had a guitar player, John Flamandan, who I have not seen since that show. He was only in the band for a week or two, and we were still figuring ourselves out. We had three songs and I had never sung before in front of people. I did a talent show at school one time when I was a kid and theatre kind of stuff where you would sing, but it was more in that context. And I was also a kid too. This was the first time ever that I'm the singer for a band and I was fucking terrified. We had a drummer named Ben Rose, really great guy. I haven't seen Ben in a million years, either, but we were still figuring ourselves out. The other thing is that all of us, with me being the exception, were in other bands, and all of our other bands were better than Fall Out Boy was. We were very sloppy and didn't know what we were doing, and so I don't think any of us really took it seriously. But there was a thing that was really funny about it, where even though we kind of thought we sucked, and even though we weren't really focusing on it, we had a lot of fun with each other. We enjoyed trying this other thing, because we were hardcore kids, and we were not the pop punk kids and the pop punk bands in town, that was like 'the thing', and we were not really welcome in that. There was a fun in trying to figure out how to make melodic and pop music when we really didn't have any history with that. It was very obvious that we didn't know what we were doing at the beginning.

So when did it begin to feel like things were finally clicking? When did you find your roles and what you wanted the band to be? 

PETE: In regards to the music, I liked Fall Out boy, way before I probably should have. I remember playing the early demos and it giving me a feeling that I hadn't felt with any of the other bands that I had been in. Now, looking back on it, I might have been a tad early on that. Then as far as the roles, I think that they've been carving themselves out over time. We've always allowed ourselves to gravitate to our strengths. Between me and Patrick, we'd probably make one great, atypical rock artist if we were one person. Because our strengths are things that the other doesn't love as much. But I think that what has happened more is it's less of a fight now and there's more trust. We have a trust with each other. There's things that Patrick will play for me or explain to me, and I don't even really need him to explain it, because I trust him. I may not totally understand it, but I trust him as an artist. On the other side of that, it's also very nice to have someone who can veto your idea, you know what I mean? It's nice to have those kind of checks and balances.

PATRICK: I had been in this band called Patterson, and all three of the other guys sang in kind of a gravelly, Hot Water Music vibe. I was not intending to be a singer, but I would try and sing backups and, it wasn't a criticism, but there was this vibe that, while I could do the gravelly thing, my voice was coming through and it didn't fit. It was too pretty and that became a thing I was kind of embarrassed of. So when Fall Out Boy started, I was actively trying to disguise that and mute it and hide behind affectation. Pete would really push me to stretch my vowels because that was in vogue in pop punk at the time. There were all these different ways that we were trying to suppress me, musically, because we were just trying to figure out how to do the things that the bands we liked did. But that wasn't really us, you know? It's really funny, because 'Take This To Your Grave' was recorded in three sections, about six months apart. Over the course of that time, I can hear us figuring it out. I think a really defining moment for me was 'Saturday', because I am not brave, I am not a bold person, and I do not put myself out there. When I was showing the band 'Saturday', we were jamming on the bit after the second chorus, and I was mumbling around, just mucking my way through it, and I did the falsetto thing. I didn't think anyone could hear me over us bashing around in Joe's parents house in this tiny little room. But Pete stopped, and he goes, 'Do that again'. I was so terrified of doing that in front of these guys, because you gotta remember, I was incredibly shy, but also a drummer. I'd never sung in front of anyone before, and now I'm singing in a band and I'm certainly not going to take chances. So I thought the falsetto thing was really not going to happen, but when I did it, there was this really funny thing. Somehow that song clicked, and it opened up this door for us where we do something different than everybody else. We were aiming to be a pop punk or hardcore band, but we found this thing that felt more natural to me.

As you embarked on Warped Tour, simultaneously you were finding this huge level of pop and mainstream success. How was it navigating and finding your way through those two very different spaces?

PATRICK: I used to work at a used record store and what shows up is all the records after their success. So I got really acquainted and really comfortable with and prepared for the idea of musical failure. I just wanted to do it because I enjoyed doing it. But in terms of planning one's life, I was certain that I would, at most, get to put out a record and then have to go to school when it didn't work out. My parents were very cautious. I said to them after 'Take This To Your Grave' came out that I'm gonna see where this goes, because I didn't expect to be on a label and get to tour. I'm gonna give it a semester, and then it will almost certainly fail, and then after it fails, I'll go to school. And then it didn't fail. Warped Tour was very crazy too, I was talking about this at When We Were Young with My Chem. Both of us were these little shit bands that no one cared about when we booked the tour. Then we got to the tour, and all these people were showing up for us, way more than we expected, way more than Warped Tour expected. So Warped Tour was putting both of us on these little side stages, and the stages would collapse because people were so excited. It was this moment that came out of nowhere all of a sudden. Then we go to Island Records, and I had another conversation with my parents, because every band that I had known up to that point, even the biggest bands in town, they would have their big indie record and then they would go to the major label and drop off the face of the planet forever. So I was certain that was going to happen. I told them again, I'm going to put out this record, and then I'll go to school when this fails. 

PETE: I think that if you really wanted someone to feel like an alien, you would put them on TRL while they were on Warped Tour. You know what I mean? Because it is just bananas. On our bus, the air conditioning didn't work, so we were basically blowing out heat in the summer, but we were just so happy to be on a bus and so happy to be playing shows. You go from that to, two days later, stepping off the bus to brush your teeth and there's a line of people wanting to watch you brush your teeth. In some ways, it was super cool that it was happening with My Chemical Romance too because it didn't feel as random, right? It feels more meant to be. It feels like something is happening. To be on Warped Tour at that time - and if you weren't there, it would be probably hard to imagine, because it's like if Cirque Du Soleil had none of the acrobatics and ran on Monster energy drink. It was a traveling circus, but for it to reach critical mass while we were there, in some ways, was great, because you're not just sitting at home. In between touring, I would come home and I'd be sitting in my bedroom at my parents house. I would think about mortality and the edge of the whole thing and all these existential thoughts you feel when you're by yourself. But on Warped Tour, you go to the signing, you play laser tag, you go to the radio station. So in some ways, it's like you're in this little boot camp, and you don't really even think about anything too much. I guess it was a little bit of a blur.

Pete, when you introduced 'Bang The Doldrums' at When We Were Young, you encouraged the crowd to 'keep making weird shit'. That could almost be a mantra for the band as a whole. Your weirder moments are the ones that made you. Even a song like 'Dance Dance' has a rhythm section you never would have expected to hear on a rock track at that time.

PETE: You know, I just watched 'Joker 2' and I loved it. I do understand why people wouldn't because it subverts the whole thing. It subverts everything about the first one. That's something I've always really loved, when I watch artists who could keep making the same thing, and instead they make something that's challenging to them or challenging to their audience. Sometimes you miss, sometimes you do a big thing and you miss, and we've definitely done that. But I gotta say, all the things that I've really loved about art and music, and that has enriched my life, is when people take chances. You don't get the invention of anything new without that. To not make weird stuff would feel odd, and I personally would much rather lose and miss doing our own thing. To play it safe and cut yourself off around the edges and sand it down and then miss also, those are the worst misses, because you didn't even go big as yourself. This is where we connect with each other, we connect by our flaws and the little weird neuroses that we have. I rarely look at something and go 'Wow, that safe little idea really moved me'. I guess it happens, but I think about this with something like 'Joker 2' where this director was given the keys and you can just do anything. I think a lot of times somebody would just make an expected follow up but some people turn right when they're supposed to turn left. That's always been interesting on an artistic level, but at the same time, I think you're more likely to miss big when you do that.

PATRICK: Going into 'From Under The Cork Tree', I had this sense that this is my only shot. It has already outperformed what I expected. I don't want to be locked into doing the same thing forever, because I know me. I know I'm not Mr. Pop Punk, that's just one of many things I like. So I would be so bummed if for the rest of my life, I had to impersonate myself from when I was 17 and have to live in that forever. So I consciously wanted to put a lot of weird stuff on that record because I thought it was probably my only moment. 'Sugar, We're Goin Down' was a fairly straight ahead pop punk song but even that was weird for us, because it was slow. I remember being really scared about how slow it was, because it's almost mosh tempo for the whole song, which was not anything we had done up to that point. But in every direction, in every song, I was actively trying to push the boundaries as much as I could. 'Dance, Dance' was one of those ones where I was seeing what I can get away with, because I might never get this chance again. We were on tour with a friend's band, and I remember playing the record for them. I remember specifically playing 'Our Lawyer…' that opens the record, which has that 6/8 time feel, and they kind of look at me, like 'What?'. Then I played 'Dance, Dance', and they're like, 'Hey man, you know, whatever works for you. It's been nice knowing you'. But I just knew that, on the off chance that I ended up still being a musician in my 40s, I wanted to still love the music that we made. I didn't want to ever resent it. It's ironic because people say that bands sell out when they don't make the same thing over and over again. But wait a second. Say that again. Think about that.

That attitude seemed to carry directly into 'Infinity On High'. If you may never end up doing this again then let's make sure we bring in the orchestra while we still can... 

PATRICK: That was literally something that I did say to myself this might be the last time, the likelihood is we're going to fail because that's what happens, so this might be the last time that I ever get a chance to have somebody pay for an orchestra and a choir. I always think of The Who when they did 'A Quick One, While He's Away' and there's a part where they go 'cello, cello', because they couldn't afford real cellos, they couldn't afford players. That's what I thought would happen for me in life. So I went in and thought, let's do it all. Let's throw everything at the wall, because there's no chance that it's going to happen again. So many things came together on that record, but I didn't expect it. 'Arms Race' was a very weird song, and I was shocked when management went along with it and had kind of decided that would be the single. I was in disbelief. It did not feel like a single but it worked for us. It was a pretty big song and then 'Thnks Fr Th Mmrs' was easily the big hit off that record. So then we have two hit songs off of an album that I didn't even know would come out at that point. But again, it was very much just about taking the risks and seeing what the hell happened.

As you went on hiatus for a few years, you worked on a number of other creative projects. How did those end up influencing your approach to the band when you returned?

PETE: On the areas of the band where I led, I wanted to be a better leader. When you're younger and you're fighting for your ideas, I don't think that I was the greatest listener. I just wanted to be a better cog in the machine. When you're in a band originally, no one gives you the little band handbook and says 'these are the things you should do', you know? I just wanted to be a better version of who I was in the band. 

PATRICK: There's a combination of things. 'Soul Punk' is a weird record. I love that record but I kind of resent that record for so many things. It's my solo record, but it's also not very me in a lot of ways. I had started with a very odd little art rock record, and then I had some personal tragedies happen. My EP that I put out far out sold expectations so then all of a sudden, Island Records goes, 'Oh, we think this could actually be something we want singles for'. I think we had all expected that I would be putting out a smaller indie record but then all of a sudden they were like 'oh, you could be a pop star'. So then I have to retrofit this art rock record into pop star hit music, and also channel personal tragedy through it. I hadn't ever really been a front man - I'd been a singer, but I hadn't really been a front man, and I hadn't really written lyrics, certainly not introspective, personal lyrics. So that whole record is so strange and muted to me. So I went from that album, which also failed so fucking hard - I should have gone to school after that one. But Pete had reached out to me just as a friend, and said 'I know you're in your own thing right now, and I know that you're not the kind of person that is going to be in my fantasy football league, so I'm not going to see you unless we make music. But you're my buddy, and that kind of bums me out that I don't see you at all, so I guess we have to make music'. I thought that was a fairly convincing pitch. It's true, that was what we do when we hang out - we make music. So we reconvene, and going into it, I had all these lessons that really made me understand Pete better, because Pete is the natural front end person. So many of our arguments and frustrations and the things that we didn't see eye to eye on, I grew to understand having now been in the position of the point man that had to make all the decisions for my solo thing. It really flipped my understanding of why he said the things he would say, or why he did things he would do. I remember early on thinking he was so pushy, but then, in retrospect, you realise he was doing it for a reason. There's so many little things that really changed for me doing 'Soul Punk' that were not musical but were more about how you run a band and how you run a business, that made me understand and respect him a lot more.

What are memories of that initial return and, specifically, that tiny first show back at the Metro venue in Chicago?

PETE: Those first shows were definitely magical because I really wasn't sure that we would be on a stage again together. I don't have as many memories of some of our other first things. We were just talking about Warped Tour, I don't have many memories of those because it is almost wasted on you when it's a blur and there's so many things happening. But with this, I really wanted to not take it for granted and wanted to take in all the moments and have snapshots in our own heads of that show. I did a lot of other art during the time when we were off, everybody did, but there's a magic between the four of us and it was nice to know that it was real. When we got on that stage again at the Metro for the first time, there was something that's just a little different. I can't really put my finger on it, but it makes that art that we were making separately different than all the other stuff.

Musically, as you moved forward, everything sounded much bigger, almost ready for arenas and stadiums. Was that a conscious decision on your part?

PETE: Patrick felt like he was bursting with these ideas. It felt like these had been lying in wait, and they were big, and they were out there, and whether he'd saved them for those records, I don't really know. That's what it felt like to me. With 'Save Rock And Roll', we knew we had basically one shot. There were really three options; you'll have this other period in your career, no one will care or this will be the torch that burns the whole thing down. So we wanted to have it be at least on our terms. Then I think with 'American Beauty...' it was slightly different, because we made that record as fast as we could. We were in a pop sphere. Is there a way for a band to be competitive with DJs and rappers in terms of response time? Are we able to be on the scene and have it happen as quickly? I think it kind of made us insane a little bit. With 'American Beauty…', we really realised that we were not going to walk that same path in pop culture and that we would need to 'Trojan horse' our way into the conversation in some way. So we thought these songs could be played in stadiums, that these songs could be end titles. What are other avenues? Because radio didn't want this right now, so what are other avenues to make it to that conversation? Maybe this is just in my head but I thought 'Uma Thurman' could be a sister song to 'Dance, Dance' or maybe even 'Arms Race' where it is weird but it has pop elements to it.

PATRICK: I had a feeling on 'Save Rock And Roll' that it was kind of disjointed. It was a lot of good songs, but they were all over the place. So when we went into 'American Beauty…', I really wanted to make something cohesive. I do think that record is very coherent and very succinct - you either like it or you don't, and that's pretty much it all the way through. By the time we got to 'MANIA', I had done all this production and I'd started to get into scoring. The band had done so many things and taken so many weird chances that I just felt free to do whatever. At that point, no one's going to disown me if I try something really strange so let's see what happens. 'Young And Menace' was a big part of that experiment. People hate that song, and that's okay. It was meant to be challenging, it's obviously not supposed to be a pop song. It's an abrasive song, it should not have been a single. However, I do think that record should have been more like that. Towards the end of the production, there was this scramble of like, 'Oh, fuck, we have no pop music on this and we need to have singles' and things like that. That took over that record and became the last minute push. I think the last half of that record was recorded in the span of two weeks towards the end of the recording to try and pad it with more pop related songs. I look at that record and think it should have all been 'Young And Menace'. That should have been our 'Kid A' or something. It should have really challenged people.

But we have spoken before about how 'Folie à Deux' found its audience much later. It does feel like something similar is already beginning to happen with 'MANIA'...

PETE: I agree with you, and I think that's a great question, because I always thought like that. There's things that you're not there for, but you wish you were there. I always thought about it when we put out 'MANIA', because I don't know if it's for everyone, but this is your moment where you could change the course of history, you know, this could be your next 'Folie à Deux', which is bizarre because they're completely different records. But it also seems, and I think I have this with films and bands and stuff as well, that while one thing ascends, you see people grab onto the thing that other people wouldn't know, right? It's like me talking about 'Joker 2' - why not talk about the first one? That's the one that everybody likes. Maybe it's contrarian, I don't really know. I just purely like it. I'm sure that's what people say about 'Folie à Deux' and 'MANIA' as well. But there's something in the ascent where people begin to diverge, you are able to separate them and go 'Well, maybe this one's just for me and people like me. I like these other ones that other people talk about, but this one speaks to me'. I think over time, as they separate, the more people are able to say that. And then I can say this, because Patrick does music, I think that sometimes he's early on ideas, and time catches up with it a little bit as well. The ideas, and the guest on the record, they all make a little bit more sense as time goes on.

'MANIA' is almost the first of your albums designed for the streaming era. Everything is so different so people could almost pick and choose their own playlist.

PETE: Of course, you can curate it yourself. That's a great point. I think that the other point that you just made me think of is this was the first time where we realised, well, there's not really gatekeepers. The song will raise its hand, just like exactly what you're saying. So we should have probably just had 'The Last Of The Real Ones' be an early single, because that song was the one that people reacted to. But I think that there was still the old way of thinking in terms of picking the song that we think has the best chance, or whatever. But since then, we've just allowed the songs to dictate what path they take. I think that that's brilliant. If I'd had a chance to do that, curate my own record and pick the Metallica songs or whatever,that would be fantastic. So it was truly a learning experience in the way you release art to me.

PATRICK: After 'MANIA', I realised Fall Out Boy can't be the place for me to try everything. It's just not. We've been around for too long. We've been doing things for too long. It can't be my place to throw everything at the wall. There's too much that I've learned from scoring and from production now to put it all into it. So the scoring thing really became even more necessary. I needed it, emotionally. I needed a place to do everything, to have tubas and learn how to write jazz and how to write for the first trumpet. So then going into 'So Much (For) Stardust', it had the effect of making me more excited about rock music again, because I didn't feel the weight of all of this musical experimentation so I could just enjoy writing a rock song. It's funny, because I think it really grew into that towards the end of writing the record. I'd bet you, if we waited another month, it would probably be all more rock, because I had a rediscovered interest in it.

It's interesting you talk about the enjoyment of rock music again because that joy comes through on 'So Much (For) Stardust' in a major way, particularly on something like the title track. When the four of you all hit those closing harmonies together, especially live, that's a moment where everything feels fully cohesive and together and you can really enjoy yourselves. There's still experimental moments on the album but you guys are in a very confident and comfortable space right now and it definitely shows in the music. 

PATRICK: Yeah, I think that's a great point. When you talk about experimentation too and comfort, that's really the thing isn't it? This is always a thing that bugged me, because I never liked to jam when I was a kid. I really wanted to learn the part, memorise it and play it. Miles Davis was a side man for 20 years before he started doing his thing. You need to learn the shit out of your music theory and your instrument - you need to learn all the rules before you break them. I always had that mindset. But at this point, we as a band have worked with each other so much that now we can fuck around musically in ways that we didn't used to be able to and it's really exciting. There's just so much I notice now. There are ways that we all play that are really hard to describe. I think if you were to pull any one of the four of us out of it, I would really miss it. I would really miss that. It is this kind of alchemy of the way everyone works together. It's confidence, it's also comfort. It's like there's a home to it that I feel works so well. It's how I'm able to sing the way I sing, or it's how Andy's able to play the way he plays. There's something to it. We unlock stuff for each other.

Before we close, we must mention the other big live moment you had this year. You had played at Download Festival before but taking the headline slot, especially given the history of Donington, must have felt extra special. 

PETE: It felt insane. We always have a little bit of nerves about Download, wondering are we heavy enough? To the credit of the fans and the other bands playing, we have always felt so welcomed when we're there. There's very few times where you can look back on a time when... so, if I was a professional baseball player, and I'm throwing a ball against the wall in my parents garage as a kid, I could draw a direct link from the feeling of wanting to do that. I remember watching Metallica videos at Donington and thinking 'I want to be in Metallica at Donington'. That's not exactly how it turned out, but in some ways there is that direct link. On just a personal level, my family came over and got to see the festival. They were wearing the boots and we were in the mud. All this stuff that I would describe to them sounds insane when you tell your family in America - 'It's raining, but people love it'. For them to get to experience that was super special for me as well. We played the biggest production we've ever had and to get to do that there, the whole thing really made my summer.

PATRICK: There's not really words for it. It feels so improbable and so unlikely. Something hit me this last year, this last tour, where I would get out on stage and I'd be like, 'Wait, fucking seriously? People still want to see us and want to hear us?' It feels so strange and surreal. I go home and I'm just some schlubby Dad and I have to take out the compost and I have to remember to run the dishwasher. I live this not very exciting life, and then I get out there at Download and it's all these people. Because I'm naturally kind of shy, for years, I would look down when I played because I was so stressed about what was happening. Confidence and all these have given me a different posture so when I go out there, I can really see it, and it really hits you. Download, like you said, we've done before, but there's something very different about where I am now as a person. So I can really be there. And when you walk out on that stage, it is astounding. It forces you to play better and work harder, because these people waited for us. The show is the audience and your interaction with it. In the same way that the band has this alchemy to it, we can't play a show like that without that audience.

[messrsrarchives]

i don't want to take up too much space or add negativity here by talking about it, but i do want to touch upon it.

this fandom is difficult. it's difficult in a way it never should have been, and it is nearly impossible to engage with it interactively in a way that doesn't cause you any harm.

and i think the thing i've been coming to terms with recently, is that i can't engage with it how i have been without causing harm in a general sense - especially over on tiktok.

there's a kind of complacency at the moment. complacency in fandom etiquette yes, but the main thing is JKR, and the complacency people have fallen into when it comes to her. when it comes to the tours, the merch, the REBOOT. there's a complacency.

and it's reached a point where,,, there isn't much to do about it.

because my account there has always been talkative - i started talking over there purely to talk about my thoughts and share my interests, and it gradually became more educational. which was fine when it started, but it's not anymore. it's not when it's no longer fun for me, and when it's turned from talking about fandom to defending my place in it. to educating people on why my life matters more than official HP content.

and most discourse? i'll talk about purely because i find it interesting, and then i'll move along. but i can't move along from the reboot and general jkr stuff because i'm trans outside of fandom as well as in it.

i can talk about how it feels to be trans in this fandom right now, and then i turn my phone off, and there's bills to pay. there's increasingly high hrt prices, there's routine blood tests that the nhs won't do for my heart condition, there's a road in my town i can't walk through because someone pulled a knife on me, there's law after law after law being debated, funded, and approved, there's opportunities i've been denied and necessities i've been denied because of my identity.

and i can't turn that off.

and it gets harder to separate the two. it gets harder to separate fandom and real life when i'm coming to a place that should be a form of escapism and hearing people talk about supporting JKR, so i counteract that and explain why we shouldn't, and then i'm directly impacted once the app is closed. i can't turn that off, and i can't feel right engaging in it.

and i think that's the sad thing. i know @sophsicle did a post on this recently, but once fandom and real life start mixing, it's so much harder to engage here because we are responsible. and i can't ethically (or healthily for myself) post about this fandom on tiktok when it's to blame for the complacency we're seeing. and it is to blame. it's the comments on fancasts videos, it's the promoting of jkr's universe in random comment sections just because people "look like" the marauders, it's the reposting of the reboot or official hp pages when they talk about marauders and it's so much more and it's just,,,, impossible.

and i sound like a broken record because for MONTHS i have been talking about this. for months i have been talking about the harm this will cause and a couple of months ago i said that if things don't start changing, you're going to see creators taking steps back.

and i think the most upsetting part, is that i explain this. i explain how important this space has been for my stability and my confidence, how it has been the biggest part of my life and i don't feel comfortable anymore and,,, the majority of the messages so far are "what's going to happen to the fic rec sheet?" "should i download all the fics on your account?" "what about xyz?" etc etc

and it's just,,, content over individual. whether that's the reboot over trans people, or videos over the person, it's always content.

idk man. i don't want this to be too negative but this space needs to work on its support. it needs to stand stronger against jkr, and it needs to stop calling itself inclusive in the meantime i think.

this has been overly negative but fandom isn't. a solid 90% of my time on tiktok has been lovely. i made 18k new friends, gained so much confidence (this is the only time i've ever been able to overcome my stammer and speech impediment and that's everything), raised 7.7k for my top surgery and just,,, it's overwhelmingly positive.

my bubble is good. and the space i have crafted is safe and lovely.

but i don't feel right posting on there anymore. not when wider fandom is a big part of why JKR is suddenly back in the picture, and we can "separate her from the reboot" (we can't).

this is very long so i'll end it with this:

it does not alleviate your guilt to engage with her in a "marauders way". if anything, it is worse to do that and post about it when this space prides itself on inclusivity.

you are not reclaiming this space, you are making it harder for those at risk to engage.

and you need to take "fuck jkr" out of your bio until your actions match your words, regardless of who is casted in a reboot that shouldn't be happening in the first place.

[hollowed-theory-hall]

this is probably a no, but do you have any thoughts on druella rosier (or druella black)?

I don't have a lot of thoughts about her... like, she was a pureblood witch who married Cygnus pretty young in most likelihood, and had Bellatrix pretty young (like 18).

Since Bellatrix and Andromeda are said to look very similar and are similar to the Blacks, Narcissa is probably the most similar to Druella appearance-wise, but, I'd say also temperament-wise. Like, I imagine Druella was closest to her youngest, Narcissa.

Appearance-wise, I think Druella has blond and dark eyes. Bellatrix is described with dark eyes while the Blacks have silver eyes for the most part, so I imagine Bellatrix has her mother's eyes and the appearance of his father's family, Narcissa is the opposite (carbon copy of her mother with her father's silver eyes, which Draco has too), and Andromeda is a bit more of a mix of both her parents.

We know Druella is likely related to Evan Rosier, a Death Eater that was killed in the first war by Mad-Eye Moody. I always thought of them as cousins and not as siblings, though. It does suggest the family are more blood-purists. The family is also in the Sacred 28, which marks them as "considered pure-blood" by Cantankerus Nott and other blood-purists.

The name Rosier is French, which suggests they either came to the UK with the Normans or later, depending on how old you think the family is in Britain. Personally, I imagine they are a more recent arrival since I couldn't find any variation of their name in the Doomsday Book (survey of England done in 1086, post-conquest) and we don't have information regarding their arrival in England, unlike with the Malfoys.

Some research I did said the name Rosier arrived in England in the 17th century with Protestant refugees. So I imagine the wizarding Rosiers were the same. Early in the century, before the Statute of Secrecy, they moved from France to Britain to avoid being prosecuted for being protestant wizards along with other muggle French protestants.

The Huguenots fleeing Roman Catholic persecution in Europe, started to enter Britain from about 1580, but it was not until the repeal of the Edict of Nantes in 1685 that the trickle became a flood. The loss to France in particular was enormous as many of the refugees were amongst the most skilled artisans in Europe. Early examples of recordings include Bartholomew Rosier at the church of St Martin Pomeroy in the city of London, on April 14th 1638

(Source)

So, I don't have many thoughts on her as a person, but I have some stuff about the Roriser family as a whole. I think they are pretty well off (not on Malfoys or Blacks level), and they don't have a Wizengamot seat. They are well respected by pure-blood families though. I believe they earned their money and respect mostly for the professions they held (the way Potters are known as potion makers or Ollivanders are wand makers). As rose petals were used for medicine, textiles, and perfume making in the Medieval period, I like to imagine them as a family of robe makers and quite a few healers in their midst.

[cherrylng]

My Chemical Romance - Gerard Way interview [INROCK (May 2006)]

“I'm using the word "love" for the first time. I can definitely say this is based on real experience.”

Gerard Way / My Chemical Romance INTERVIEW: AI ANAZAWA

My Chemical Romance have been laying low of late in order to work on a new album following "Sweet Revenge". If all had gone according to plan, recording would have started at some place in Los Angeles by now, but this time it is Rob Cavallo, who produced their heroes Green Day, who is in charge of production. According to Rob, the new album has "some dark stuff, some references to Queen and The Doors. There are also some experimental parts that are reminiscent of System of a Down." The working title of the new album is "The Rise and Fall of My Chemical Romance." It is significant that the album is about 'the rise and fall of My Chemical Romance', even though they have only released two albums so far. As we wait for the album to be released before the end of the year, we attempted an email interview with Gerard, who says he loves Japan.

How have you been? How are you doing these days? Gerard Way (vo.): Good question. I actually just got back from Japan the other day, can you believe it? The day we finished touring in Australia, I went to Japan for a holiday. I was so happy this time because I got to see the beautiful land of Japan without working. What else have I been doing recently? In six days I'll be heading to Los Angeles to prepare for the recording of the new album.

I heard you were visiting Japan. Where did you go and what did you do? Gerard: Hahaha, you already answered your own question. I went to a lot of places. Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Miyajima, Hiroshima and many other places. I also stayed at a ryokan across the sea by boat. I went hiking and visited a lot of temples. I had dinner with a geisha… I had so many wonderful experiences.

Were you alone? Or do you have friends in Japan you can rely on? Gerard: I went with my girlfriend. And her younger sister and her boyfriend, who are both artists by the way. My sister's boyfriend is from Kyoto, so he showed me around. If it wasn't for him, I would have been completely lost. So it's thanks to him that I've had such a great experience. Of course, meeting Kazu, the Japanese label manager, was another highlight of the trip. For me he's not just a label manager, he's a good friend. We got some great photos together.

"I feel like when I go to Japan, I come back a better person afterwards."

What did you buy in Japan? Gerard: I bought a lot of straps to put on my mobile phone, hahaha. I also bought a lot of souvenirs for my family and friends. Tea, Godzilla, and Studio Ghibli stuff.

Why Japan? Gerard: Because it's my favourite place in the world. It's beautiful and I like the way people take care of things. I feel like when I go to Japan, I come back a better person afterwards.

Is there anything you've learnt since you've been here? Gerard: Wow, well… I learnt about respect and the importance of thinking about what's good on a larger community level and not just about yourself.

Don't you think more Americans should travel more and see more of the world? Gerard: Everyone should, not just Americans. It's the only way to learn about the world.

I heard a rumour that you bought a CD of the Don Quixote theme song while you were in Japan. Gerard: Yeah, I liked it so much that Kazu helped me find the CD and buy it. I'm sure Matt Cortez, our guitar tech, will be thrilled when he hears it.

You once said that "I Brought You My Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love" (first album) was about finding yourself, and "Sweet Revenge" was about polishing yourself, so you want to make the next album the ultimate My Chemical Romance album. What exactly do you plan to do to make that happen? Gerard: I think some of the songs on the previous albums have inspired us to grow up and take more risks as a result. For example, "You Know What They Do To Guys Like Us In Prison" on "Sweet Revenge" showed us that we could explore new and more diverse areas. It's like a warm-up before a boxing match knockout. Another thing I can say is that the new album will be more colourful. It will definitely have more depth and you'll see that we don't care about the outcome, we're just going to do what we want to do.

What can we expect from the new album? Are you planning any collaborations with anyone? Who will be your producer? Gerard: I'm looking forward to some intense stuff. Also, there will be a lot of wolves. I don't know about collaborations yet, but we're going to have Rob Cavallo as producer. I'm very happy about that. It's a huge honour.

You mentioned that the new album will have more songs based on real-life experiences. What are the themes of the lyrics? Gerard: Death is still a theme in the new album, but this time it's more humorous than before. There's also a lot of references to self-loathing, self-awareness and a lot of longing. I'm using the word "love" for the first time. I can definitely say that this is based on real experiences.

Looking back, what do you think of your work so far? Gerard: I'm very proud of it. At the same time, I feel that I could have done better. Especially my parts. But hey, I'm good at criticising myself.

"I've been sober for the last year and a half, and it's made my life a lot better."

I heard that "Sweet Revenge" was a concept album, and the makeup was based on that concept. Do you think it was good the way it was? Gerard: Of course. It was necessary for us to make an artistic statement and to get the idea across. It was specific to "Sweet Revenge", and we'll do something different next time.

With that album, you guys were accepted by many people, especially the MTV demographic. I think your popularity has exploded, especially over the past year, thanks in part to the elaborate promotional videos you've made. When we spoke at Summer Sonic two years ago, you said that you still had a strong New Jersey underdog mentality, which I remember fondly. Was it a slow and gradual process for you guys to become popular since then? Or was it a sudden, dramatic change? Gerard: Even though we'd been around for quite a while, it was a sudden change. We just couldn't keep up with the fame. I don't think anyone can ever be prepared for fame. And we didn't get along well with celebrities, so we never got over the underdog mentality. Celebrity pretence was never our forte.

How important is the visual aspect? What can we expect to see from you in the future? Gerard: The visual aspect of the album art and the stage is very important. The costumes we've worn in the past, they've just naturally taken shape to suit the stage. That's why I don't wear the old stage clothes for photo shoots these days.

You have been relatively open about your depression and alcoholism. How are things going for you there? You seem to be a lot happier these days. Gerard: I'm doing great. I've been sober for the last year and a half, and it's made my life a lot better.

Finally, I know you're of Italian descent, but what other bloodlines are you mixed with? Gerard: Italian and Scottish, as well as German and Swedish. My name comes from a Catholic saint. That's a very Italian way of giving a name.

Oh, at the end of the day, did I forget to ask you anything else? Gerard: Hahaha~ I think we covered it all. Thanks for today!

Translator's Note: Please do support me via ko-fi! ☕

[three-headed-monster]

this month has literally just been confirming to me that i'm a fandom Elder my god, me vs explaining 2021, 2022, and 2023 fandom lore to various different people 😂

but yeah ! macklin is really interesting cause i would say there's a decent amount of scholarship on him, but not a lot! he seems, by all accounts, a fairly regular kid, but i think the lack of media bubble around him has also meant we haven't really gotten as much information about him in comparison to other draftees (this also might just be a big gap in my own information because while i have followed this dude for a long time, last year as a whole is a year where i feel hockey did not exist to me for 80% of the year)

i would be careful about third hand accounts though, because i think a lot of us are partial to twisting the narrative to how it fits our own headcanons (very much guilty of this sometimes, but i really do try to be accurate). there's a lot of stuff on adam fantilli in particular, and the reasons he left the canadian hockey system that are inaccurate, or stretched to a large degree. i fear that has been applied to macklin's story too, which he himself has refuted. so i would def encourage to be diligent in doing your own research ! and forming your own headcanons outside of the third hand accounts :)))

connor's masking is so insane and it's gotten more and more blatently obvious since he came into the nhl. before, of course he had his pr voices and everything but every once in a while he'd break character and we'd get a glimpse at the true him. now it feels like unless we're getting another friends livestream, we're never seeing that again 😭

i don't think any of them were raised normal tbh and you're right in saying we can only take what the media says about them. i hate comparisons in anny way though, and even though it's great media foddder, it honestly serves everyone involved terribly because well....

time to talk about shane wright.

shane wright was, from the time he was 14! projected to be the top pick in the 2022 nhl draft. people called him the next one. he was connor before connor was connor. exceptional player status in the ohl, was playing with people 3-4 years his SENIOR by the time he was 15 and eating them alive. everywhere this kid went, people were telling him he was great.

and then covid hits. and he doesn't play hockey. for a year. despite so may other people going overseas to play in europe just to try to continue their development, shane wright doesn't. he sits on his hands. he waits for the ohl to begin again in a year it never does. there was speculation at the time that it was because he was struggling with the idea of being so far away from his family at so young, which. objectively. makes sense. 16 in europe alone is a lot different from billets in the same province as his parents. (also what they won't tell you is that 50% of the players who did get to go overseas was because they had dual citizenship, look at i.e. mctavish and othmann going to switzerland because they were dual citizens, because at the time no one else could cross the borders).

but he does u18s. he looks fine. GREAT even. breaks all kinds of scoring records. consensus heading into the 2021-22 season is that he's still going to be the first overall pick. nothing seems wrong.

until it is. because he has a subpar year in terms of scoring. and there's other competition making their cases for top pick. and it looks like the canadiens will be picking first overall while the draft is in their city, and it's a bigger deal than most first overall picks regardless of who it is.

and i think part of why connor was so hesitant to say "when i'm drafted" the next year in 2023, and always reverted to "if" is because shane makes the mistake of saying in a mid-season interview that he deserves to be the first overall pick in 2022. because that's what everyone's told him since he was 14? so it must be true right? no one has indicated to him anything otherwise?

the habs don't think so. they hate it. they consider it entitlement, but they don't say it to his face. the habs wine and dine him, they send scouts to his games consistently throughout the year to talk to him, habs fans are even asking him to sign habs jerseys with HIS name on it before the draft and he stays on the carpet longer than they're allowed to just to do that

but then the pick comes. it's not him. the habs don't even have the decency to call and tell him. devils are next. they don't change their plans. it's not him. arizona. they don't change theirs either. it's still not him.

imagine being told for your entire life that you are destined for greatness and then the last four years being told you are meant for greatness even higher than the GREATEST of the greatness. you were supposed to be the next mcdavid, gretzky, crosby, all of them. and it fell apart at the last moment, only because you repeated what THEY said to YOU and they didn't like that you broke that unspoken social rule not to. i think i'd be pretty pissed! i would NOT have reacted as calmly as he did on that day, lmao i burst into tears about that, and several people i knew who had followed his journey for years, did too.

he didn't have a complete meltdown, which is a miracle. but he did have one according to everyone's standards of him and how hockey players were "supposed to act". all he did was "glare" at the habs table for a split second and suddenly, he had attitude problems and he deserved what he got and he will be booed at bell centre for the rest of his life. the number of people who sent this kid VITRIOLIC hate for a half second break in his mask, is insane. INSANE. they sent ME hate for defending him. AND THEY LEAKED HIS SNAPCHAT PHOTOS. he was universally blacklisted p much, for "acting like he was above 4th overall" when he smiled SO big in every photo and was genuinely excited to be a kraken. but it wasn't enough for anyone because he was privileged and spoiled and thought he would be the first overall pick out loud.

and ik i said i hate comparisons but part of where my personal headcanon for him comes from is how he reacted to slipping in the draft, compared to adam fantilli (people loved to use this one at the time too so i must include it). adam was THRILLED to be going to columbus. but shane had the equivalent to what would be a personal meltdown to him, and while he maintained high spirits, you could tell that he was heartbroken that it seemed like he lost what had been promised to him. all as a result of him just not understanding the social rule that you don't say you're going first overall.

meanwhile he's captained several different teams and no one had ever mentioned "attitude issues" until the night of the draft. there's more stuff too on his autism, like how he is has literally one hobby and talks about it in every video (guitar and he self admits its his one thing)

and how he acted at the space needle, while it was spinning

seemingly obsessed with moving floors ! he also liked them in the haunted house video from last month and kept saying everything was fine when he looked like he wanted to die.

and he said earlier this year that he liked that the kraken had a new podium for their media space because now he actually knows where to put his hands

saw the tags on your rb, and as a fellow "connor bedard has autism" headcanoner, i would love to know more of your thoughts 😈

it's less of a headcanon and more of a divinely correct vibe check. but like am i wrong...???? although I do see it more as they're the same flavour of ND with different presentations, like Connor is hyperfocus ADHD, and Macklin is inattentive (this comes from someone with mixed presentation ADHD¹, they also tried to diagnose me with austim but my legs were too long i make eye contact BUT!!! 93rd% "indicating that Cassie has many behavioural characteristics similar to youth diagnosed with ASD." raaaaa 💪💪💪 93% is an A!! i ace even the tests i fail!!!) Plus his rigidity with his diet, is bonkers for someone that young (and it's been going on since he was like 14-15)

Like especially with the way that Connor's constant practicing, after practice until the zamboni kicks him off, and then on off days and optional skates hiding his gear to make him take days off?? that is pretty classic hyperfocus ADHD. And especially with the way he blames the teams loses on himself, like please sir seeing you in the mirror is not good for my health!!

And with Macklin, people often mischaracterize inattentive ADHD with not being motivated or good at routine and while yes those two things are a normal part of human life, and more-so with ADHD, he has shown many times how deeply he cares about hockey........ but I think (and also remember i am projecting) his father being THAT hands on with him and his brothers training (even now which yuck, you have your own job get your grubby paws off of your kid's job) has made him unable to self propel, and get himself into that routine? (AND AGAIN I AM PROJECTING) like something Macklin has said a few times is how the shift to a pro-hockey schedule has been hard, and yes it is an adjustment, but he has been essentially living away from his parents for YEARS, two years boarding at Shattuckk, one year (presumably) billeting in Chicago while playing in the USHL, and one year in college at BU, and I think the real shift is that... daddy is planning his workouts again, full time not just summers (also, the travaling doesn't help) AND THAT (i am projecting) is HELL to someone who built a routine, and any hope of getting back into one was dashed when he went of IR for his hip after one game. the boy needs CONSISTENCY!!!!! And until they get him 1) away from his freak father who has his hands al over his development plan, and 2) on simple routine with max five types of days (home game, home practice, home rest, away game, away rest) he will not get situated.

BACK TO BEDARD <33333

the man loves rules and procedures. him at his first training camp all doe eyed and "wanting to make the team!" so much that Kyle Davidson... maybe it was Luke Richardson who said it...??? either way his coach or his GM pulled aside his MOTHER to tell them that they needed to start looking at apartments. Before getting drafted it was never "when" it was "if i get drafted".... like dude.... it's gonna happen! Whenever he get's sen't to the box its always a "they hate me, don't they know I am unable to break rules!! not because they don't apply to me but because I can NOT break rules!" vibe (I am only kinda projecting on this one)

and I do think the type of media around them during their developmental years up has affected them, Macklin's media was always focused on his father, which reinforced his reliance/dependence on him, whereas Connor's was focused on him which encouraged him to focus on himself and what HE can do to improve.

also Connor has that DOG IN HIM

^ connor bedard real not fake (also my childhood psychologist had this PROMENENTLY displayed in her office and i think seeing it every two weeks had an adverse affect on me)

¹ and a bunch of other learning disorders, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, audio processing disorder, also anxiety, depression, and cutie patootie disease (fatal 😔)

[eclecticopposition]

we neeeed a podfic. we need a podfic stat. we need to be able to listen to it. you understand.

[gingermintpepper]

In my Zeus bag today so I'm just gonna put it out there that exactly none of the great Ancient Greek warrior-heroes stayed loyal and faithful and completely monogamous and yet none of them have their greatness questioned nor do we question why they had the cultural prominence that they did and still do.

Jason, the brilliant leader of the Argo, got cold feet when it came to Medea - already put off by some of her magic and then exiled from his birthland because of her political ploys, he took Creusa to bed and fully intended on marrying her despite not properly dissolving things with Medea.

Theseus was a fierce warrior and an incredibly talented king but he had a horrible temper and was almost fatally weak to women. This is the man who got imprisoned in the Underworld for trying to get a friend laid, the man who started the whole Attic War because he couldn't keep his legs closed.

And we cannot at all forget Heracles for whom a not inconsiderable amount of his joy in life was loving people then losing the people around him that he loved. Wives, children, serving boys, mentors, Heracles had a list of lovers - male and female - long enough to rival some gods and even after completing his labours and coming down to the end of his life, he did not have one wife but three.

And y'know what, just because he's a cultural darling, I'll put Achilles up here too because that man was a Theseus type where he was fantastic at the thing he was born to do (that is, fight whereas Theseus' was to rule) but that was not enough to eclipse his horrid temper and his weakness to young pretty things. This is the man that killed two of Apollo's sons because they wouldn't let him hit - Tenes because he refused to let Achilles have his sister and Troilus who refused Achilles so vehemently that he ran into Apollo's temple to avoid him and still couldn't escape.

All four of these men are still celebrated as great heroes and men. All four of these men are given the dignity of nuance, of having their flaws treated as just that, flaws which enrich their character and can be used to discuss the wider cultural point of what truly makes a hero heroic. All four of these men still have their legacies respected.

Why can that same mindset not be applied to Zeus? Zeus, who was a warrior-king raised in seclusion apart from his family. Zeus who must have learned to embrace the violence of thunder for every time he cried as a babe, the Corybantes would bang their shields to hide the sound. Zeus learned to be great because being good would not see the universe's affairs in its order.

The wonderful thing about sympathy is that we never run out of it. There's no rule stopping us from being sympathetic to multiple plights at once, there's no law that necessitate things always exist on the good-evil binary. Yes, Zeus sentenced Prometheus to sufferation in Tartarus for what (to us) seems like a cruel reason. Prometheus only wanted to help humans! But when you think about Prometheus' actions from a king's perspective, the narrative is completely different: Prometheus stole divine knowledge and gifted it to humans after Zeus explicitly told him not to. And this was after Prometheus cheated all the gods out of a huge portion of wealth by having humans keep the best part of a sacrifice's meat while the gods must delight themselves with bones, fat and skin. Yes, Zeus gave Persephone away to Hades without consulting Demeter but what king consults a woman who is not his wife about the arrangement of his daughter's marriage to another king? Yes, Zeus breaks the marriage vows he set with Hera despite his love of her but what is the Master of Fate if not its staunchest slave?

The nuance is there. Even in his most bizarre actions, the nuance and logic and reason is there. The Ancient Greeks weren't a daft people, they worshipped Zeus as their primary god for a reason and they did not associate him with half the vices modern audiences take issue with. Zeus was a father, a visitor, a protector, a fair judge of character, a guide for the lost, the arbiter of revenge for those that had been wronged, a pillar of strength for those who needed it and a shield to protect those who made their home among the biting snakes. His children were reflections of him, extensions of his will who acted both as his mercy and as his retribution, his brothers and sisters deferred to him because he was wise as well as powerful. Zeus didn't become king by accident and it is a damn shame he does not get more respect.

[scoriarose]

She came up with a new activity

[sagaschan]

I appreciate you trying to lay out your reasoning, hard to come by among pm apologists post-7.25. That said i'll have to refute your points, starting with the topic of that hankyoreh article. You say its legitimacy is questionable because it was edited to exclude the word 'fired' and i must ask, have you actually read it? Mtl works wonders these days, it shouldn't be too hard.

The title is literally 'another female [artist] in game industry gets fired... feminist verification illegal'. The contents offer an informed history of misogynistic cases just like vellmori's when people were unjustly fired owing to incel tantrums, quote kjh's notice blaming vellmori for her conduct, and interview vellmori directly. The part that was edited? Vellmori's words, that she told hankyoreh she 'was informed of a termination of contract by phone at 11pm the night of the 25th (from the company)', to exclude 'termination of contract'. The same phrase is still all over the article, any edit made is semantics at most and the article as a whole doesn't shy away from stating anything. No facts changed. Kjh still called her in the middle of the night and fired her, posted the notice saying her contract would be terminated due to causing controversy on her sns(like the incels were baying for mere hours ago), and she spoke with the paper the very next day. You don't honestly think she did so because everything was good and dandy with pm, do you?

On 8.3 pm posted their first notice regarding the matter since the fuckening after a week of radio silence, saying they would sue anyone who used the words 'unfair firing' and 'ideology verification'. Do you know what else happened that day? You should, it's in that letter you linked up above. Vellmori met with her employers with a labor attorney she hired, came to an agreement, and put it in writing. You can make a guess at why she'd have hired one to argue her rights, and no, it's not standard fair for employees who want to resign and have no quarrel with the company. Pm made their notice on 6pm that day.

Kjh illegally fired her on the 25th to capitulate to incels frothing that she was a dastardly feminist, faced the backlash from fans, sat twiddling his thumbs until vellmori stood up for herself and set the matter straight on 8.3, and only then threatened to sue the protesting fans because now that the legalities were settled he could argue he hadn't fired her. And that's what you've got to get straight, if nothing else– he's not in legal trouble only because vellmori did everything right. And since the guy has the gall to lie through his teeth that there was nothing wrong from the start.. there's a reason near the entire kr fandom dissolved last july, yknow.

As for your 'direct document', it's pm trying to argue they'd win in a legal fight, no more and no less. There're at least three points even i can see they pulled out of their ass, and for the record, they did sue the kgcs and activists, late last year. You know what came out of that? Police dismissed the case because charges were bogus. We had a laugh about it.

And yeah, obviously i can read korean. You're the one relying on your 'secondary sources' who have been distorting facts from day one despite people trying to correct them on it. Calling kgcs an 'incredibly suspicious organization attempting a company takeover', really. Take over what, exactly? You do know that ex-fans formed it after 8.3 because of the aforementioned threat to sue protesting individuals? That they've been going strong as a voice speaking for everyone who doesn't subscribe to incel rhetoric in this hellhole of an industry? Take a look at their account and the things they've accomplished since maybe, they've even got en tls for the major stuff for your benefit.

It'd be nice if any of this gave you room for thought.

It's been a while since i got one of these. @iamsandwitch Hey, go on. Try to tell me exactly what those company documents are if you have any idea what you're talking about, random project moon defender in my comments. If you want to say you're combating misinfo make like it, do a little research, back your claim with some facts. Don't go spreading any kind of fake news just because it allows you to believe you beloved gacha game is made by the nicest people around who can do no wrong.

[sunderwight]

Thinking about the weird camaraderie that exists between demons but not angels in GO.

Have we ever seen two angels who are actually friends? Or even friendly to one another? We have met angels with a capacity to be friendly in general, but I think the closest we've come to two angels actually getting along would be Gabriel making a point to laugh at Sandalphon's terrible "can't have a war without War" line in S1.

Most scenes between the angels actually seem to have an undercurrent of absolute hostility. Teeth-clenched teamwork. No wonder it took them so long to notice that Aziraphale wasn't on the same page as the rest of them! The rest of them are barely on the same page as one another, either! When Gabriel goes against the majority vote, no one bats an eye at demoting him and wiping his memory. Michael and Uriel immediately begin vying for his job. The only times we've seen angels team up is when they're working together to bully someone else, like when they're trying to intimidate Aziraphale in S1 or going to the aftermath of the bookshop raid in S2.

Saraqael's overall neutrality towards Muriel is the closest we get to two angels in Heaven getting along, and it's more a lack of hostility than any kind of friendliness. At least until Gabriel loses his memories and Muriel shows up to spy on Aziraphale, and Aziraphale decides to be kind to both of them.

Demons, on the other hand, actually seem to form alliances and even friendships among one another. Hastur and Ligur are awful, but Hastur seems genuinely distraught over Ligur's death, not just fearful of suffering the same fate. Shax and Furfur conspire together and even though the 1940's investigation into Crowley's fraternizing doesn't work out for Furfur, it's not due to any double-crossing on Shax's part. Unlike the angels, who stick almost exclusively to making threats until the Metatron decides to try dangling a carrot at the end of the season, demons actually offer rewards to other demons when trying to work together. Beelzebub offers Crowley a promotion if he can bring them Gabriel, Furfur offers to back Shax up politically if she goes for the Duke position opening, and Crowley successfully stalls Hastur in S1 by pretending everything was a test and he's going to be put in charge of a legion as a reward for passing. They're still not great at socializing, but they're significantly ahead of the angels.

Of course, it's a fact that demons are awful to one another (Eric's treatment is really bad, they throw that random demon into holy water just to test it, "it'd be a funny world if demons went around trusting one another", etc) but they still seem more capable of forming friendships than the angels do.

I think that's because Hell cramps and crowds everyone together to try and increase their suffering and hostility, whereas Heaven isolates angels to decrease the odds of questioning or rebellion. Hell's methods are unpleasant, but it still ends up putting demons together, and some of those demons inevitably forge alliances and make friendships. Because as Crowley and Beelzebub demonstrate, demons are still social creatures with the capacity for love and affection, even if it's strongly discouraged and buried under nine million layers of trauma and a cultural mandate against kindness.

Angels are the same, but isolation makes is harder to form connections than overcrowding. Muriel and Jimbriel are both so eager to make friends, but Muriel's spent the past millennia shut in an empty office, and Gabriel has been distanced from his peers both through his position and also through Heaven's culture of fear and surveillance. He only breaks away from it when he finds something that's stronger than "choosing sides" (stronger than the fear of being rejected by Heaven and Falling, in fact strong enough that Falling seems worth it if he gets to be with someone he loves). Both Muriel and Gabriel are only able to start forming connections when they're away from Heaven.

I just think it's interesting that demons, despite being supposedly devoid of love, have an advantage in forming relationships compared to angels. Angels are supposed to love, but have far fewer opportunities to actually do so. Demons aren't supposed to love, but they make connections anyway.

[fortes-fortuna-iogurtum]

I've been reading Exodus lately and I've just gotten to the portions where God gives the first commands to the people via Moses (twice), and then goes on to give detailed instructions about the tabernacle and how it should be built, and I'm just... we think art is unimportant?? we think things only mean as much as their functionality?? we so easily fall into the trap of believing that beauty means nothing, that it's cheap and only worth whatever mindless distraction it brings, that it's barely more than a cheap sensual thrill, that buildings should just be practical and plain and cheap, that everything should be functional but ultimately disposable, that paintings and dresses and mugs and curtains and carpets are just pretty but have no real value, that beauty is fleeting and vain and therefore shouldn't be thought about too much, if even looked for at all... we fall into these traps so easily, and we forget that there are chapters upon chapters of painstakingly detailed plans to build one portable worship tent, and those plans have been handed down through thousands of years of human history, because beauty and art and skill in craft is important

[nikolas-ghostbusters-fixation]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately is how everyone thought Egon had gone insane. What Happened that made them think that. They've fought a gigantic Stay Puft Marshmellow Man TWICE (counting the 2009 video game because iirc it's canon? Correct me if I'm wrong), fought an interdimensional god, fought a blood thirsty ruler that killed thousands and was hated by all that was trapped in a painting (and managed to get in to beat him by making THE STATUE OF LIBERTY start walking down the street with slime that reacted purely based on vibes), found an underground abandoned transit system full of the moodslime, had a bathtub try to eat Dana and her baby, fought a giant murderous black widow lady, fought the fisherman ghost who turned an entire hotel floor into the bottom of a ocean, and that's not even mentioning them getting trapped on an island that randomly raised up from underwater that had been abandoned for decades created by Ivor Shandor who worshipped Gozer. So what did he do or say that made everyone else think he'd gone insane?? All I can think is maybe he was acting strange / eratic before, but he's always been like that to some degree.

I don't know. It's something that I've been thinking about. The correct answer is 'it's not that deep and they needed a reason that the others weren't together anymore and weren't aware of Egons death or know what was going on,' but also. What Was He Saying that prompted everyone, including Ray, to think he lost his mind when he'd been right almost every time before that.

I'm genuinely so curious as to what he was up to before this. What was he doing. What insane idea was working on prior to this or was he even working on anything at all??

Also want to clarify this post isn't negative 😭 I really love the newer movies and their lore / the newer storyline / characters, I just like thinking about small stupid things like this. Gives me something to think about / speculate about / figure out an answer to.

[speedofsoundsketches]

Oh, it turns out Ian flynn worked on the Shadow animated shorts, he did a pretty good job consider he doesn't always get Shadow right in idw

I'm aware. With the amount of #knowingsmiles posted during the initial announcements, it's hard to not know he was involved.

He also wrote the Knuckles short in Frontiers which I also really liked but I attribute that being thanks mostly for having to work under Tyson Hesse's direction.

Shadow being ok in these shorts happened thanks to Sonic Team giving a LOT more direction and scrutiny on the scripts since it's held to a much higher standard as part of the games than Flynn was for IDW. (which still didn't stop him from inserting some of his fanfiction sourced flynnisms but what it do)

One hopes that this closer work relationship with Sonic Team will teach him how to properly write these characters and internalize the art of writing Sonic Stories in the future. I have my doubts tho since some of the writing in the shorts IS still pretty contrived (wouldn't be on brand for him if it wasn't) and ignores established lore to make the plot make sense like Shadow not warping directly into the Space Ark as he's done before. But nope, we gotta have big fight sequences so let's raid a base for a shuttle he doesn't need!

And I say this as someone who enjoyed it overall and thought the fight scenes were hype. But I'd like fight scenes to have thought behind the spectacle, not without.

[thefirstknife]

Hi Bel,

I keep seeing comments about people complaining about the quality of destiny’s writing and story in the last few weeks. I haven’t really engaged with destiny since season of defiance, what’s currently gotten everyone so riled up? I thought that people were enjoying Season of the Deep/Witch in terms of narrative, why is Season of the Wish causing people to deride the destiny writing staff again?

I don't know!

Deep and Witch have been absolute bangers in every aspect to me. I've been enjoying all interactions and lore tabs we've received. A lot of them are stuff that we've never had before, a lot of reunions and closures, a lot of development and interactions between characters who you wouldn't really think would have much in common.

Sloane's return and healing from what she's been through has been fantastic, Drifter opening up with her to help her because he also got help from others was fantastic, Sloane reuniting with Aisha and Shayura brought me to tears (Shayura's descent into madness was triggered by immense trauma of Sloane staying on Titan and Titan disappearing), everything with Sloane and Zavala...

Witch was just incredible in every single way; the focus on Eris, the amount of Eris and Ikora content!!!!! Everything about Xivu and Savathun and their interactions together!! Eris finally fulfilling her goal she promised Savathun YEARS ago, getting that closure.

Wish so far has been equally great to me. All the new stuff about Ahamkara is amazing, finally giving us proof for long-standing speculation about Ahamkara and how they aren't universally evil creatures and expanding on them as a species. I love all interactions we've had so far; finally we have Petra back, Mara's singleminded focus on figuring out how to defeat the Witness and her continuous work to improve as a person, ALL SJUR MENTIONS!!!!! I won't talk about the "leak" because we have no context for it so I will wait for the full story to be revealed before I can pass judgment; something that I think should be a lesson to learn from this entire year. Maybe wait for the story to finish before judging the story.

Literally everything this past year that involves Osiris, but especially this season now that he's back in his element with the Vex. And of course every little detail we get of him and Saint. Osiris honestly shaped this year for me with everything that he's done to uncover the biggest mysteries. I think a big reason is that a lot of people just don't like Osiris, which I consider a massive skill issue.

Other than that, I don't know what are the issues people have besides just not being interested in any of these storylines and attributing it to a nebulous "bad writing" claim. I also genuinely believe that way too many people get wrapped up too much in fandom, imagine storylines they want to see and then get disappointed when the actual story doesn't go there. Almost like people forget that this isn't their story and these aren't their characters. A lot of it is also fandom completely warping characters into not what they actually are and then feeling like the canon story is the one that's wrong.

Whatever is the reason, I guess everyone is entitled to their perspective of the story and everyone is free to explore the story in different ways through fanfics and AUs and whatever. I do that too!

But I would definitely ask people to be normal with how they engage in criticism, especially in the current state of affairs. Writers are developers; they experience a ton of harassment and negativity from the community and also from inside the company. And they are online: they can see what we're saying. It's been documented that community commentary has been used to harass writers:

Imprint this into your brain and never forget what these people had to go through. Let's not forget also the way people treated Seth Dickinson on social media when he was active with Destiny fans. "Fans" were actively arguing with him about his own work (telling him that HE is wrong) and were utterly disgusting towards him when he tried explaining what he wrote. His works are now hailed as the best writing in Destiny and people want him back. If I were him, I wouldn't want to come back ngl, not with how he was treated and not with how fans are still treating writers (and hey, Seth wrote LF Collector's Edition! So he was back, technically, this year!). Let's not forget that a lot of writers are members of various marginalised groups. And I'd definitely not want to go back with zero support from leadership.

Which is also an important aspect for all developers, including writers: sometimes they have orders they may not like, but can't argue against. They do the best they can with what they're given, the time they have and directions they receive. And with that in mind, I am enjoying everything we've gotten this year, obviously with some specific complaints about things I didn't particularly enjoy (like the universally mid reception of Defiance; I've spoken about my gripes with it before, a big one being the shafting of Suraya who should've at least been mentioned in a lore tab).

I can tell that there is passion in their work, even if maybe they would prefer to do more with it, but can't. Maybe even if they want to take different routes, but can't. But from what we got, I can feel that they care about this world and these characters. I can tell that someone lovingly wrote about Sloane and her friendships with two grieving women. I can tell that they deeply cared about Sloane's friendship with Zavala and that they loved showing us Saint and Drifter caring about a fellow trauma survivor.

I can tell that the writers are immensely careful and loving towards Eris; everything she went through was crafted with love and passion from both writers and her VA. Eris' story is such a fundamental aspect of Destiny and I can tell that this was important to the writing team and that they gave her everything they could to do justice to her character and her arc and her healing and her release from the cycle she was trapped in for so long.

I can tell that there are writers who care a lot about Osiris and Saint and their relationship. I can tell that someone cared a lot about expanding on Ahamkara and giving them more personalities. I can tell that someone cared DEEPLY about Sjur and Mara and that her repeated mentions are the passionate work of writers who want us to remember her.

I could go on. And I know that not everyone sees it this way, which is fine; we all have different ways of perceiving stories. I enjoy discussing things we in the fandom disagree on and I enjoy hearing different perspectives! Unfortunately, this has recently become rarer and rarer. And for the love of god, please try and treat writers with some respect, especially now, especially those who are still working and doing their best with the shitty situation they're in. None of the cries of "poor devs" ring true to me unless the same is given to writers, instead of treating them like punching bags.

[dayssinceabrandcrossedmarkiplier]

Well it looks like we've got a reset on our hands again. Mark mentioned in the latest episode of Distractible that a company called OWC (Other World Computing) misled him with the information provided with their usb products and as a result is making editing Iron Lung more complicated than it should be.

I feel like that's more than enough ground to classify them as a brand that crossed Markiplier.

[uncanny-tranny]

Is this community safe for non-passing or non-transitioning (socially/medically) trans people, even if they had the means to transition?

Why would it be? If someone can easily/safely transition and choose not to, I would question if they were trans. I’ve lived through people invading my trans student union bc they wanted to be special, I’m not going to do it again

Because being trans is an identity, not an action. You can transition, yes, but that doesn't mean you are "more trans." If somebody can safely transition but they choose not to, that is their decision, and it isn't your right nor responsibility to tell them what you think about it, frankly.

As somebody who is transitioning, I can understand if you don't understand why somebody isn't transitioning. However, you don't have to "get it" to respect them. I'm sorry, but I don't feel much sympathy for people who say, "if you don't transition, you just want to feel special, and you aren't trans"

Again: being trans is an identity. The same way as being cis - cis people do not have to "prove" they are cis, why do trans people? Why must we constantly have to appease everybody around us? I transitioned for me, I take testosterone for me, I changed my name for me, I dress masc for me - none of that involves anybody else, and I reckon it is similar to people who are not transitioning medically or socially.