#but we also have clothar caribert and kaeya

[nomohmoss]

oh how i hate the theory that the pale princess and the six pygmies is about cataclysm in khaenri'ah like it Doesn't Fit

[kaeyachi]

We have so many Alberich clansmen straightup mentioned in gamefiles, 3/5 have been shown (Clothar, Caribert, and Kaeya as the only playable alberich) while the 2/5 (Antforas and Kaeya's bio father, unsure if 2 diff people yet) are mentioned, and then there's Pierro who might also be an Alberich just based on similarities with Kaeya's design.

that's a lot of notable Alberich clansmen with heavy lore impact right there. What did they feed this clan?

[slothcapsule]

a collection of things kaeya foreshadowed

(copy pasted directly from reddit) one of the main appeal points in Kaeya for me is just how much potential his character holds, and how that gets proven with every new main story-centric update. Everything Kaeya says holds a certain double meaning, and we only get to find them out when we know more, so I thought I'd compile all the things (that I know of) that Kaeya has foreshadowed or teased in one way or another because I feel like I never see anybody mention how many things he's said before started making more sense after we knew more things?

starting with his story quest (1.0) predicts a couple of things! the first one being the first three nations' plotlines. Dvalin being the 'wicked abyss dragon' and Osial being the 'hydra', then in Inazuma signora being the 'silver-haired banshee' (for those who don't know Signora's lore centres around her actions being motivated by grief over the loss of her husband I'm pretty sure, so she can vaguely check the banshee title off)

These connections were proven further in Sumeru! During the Aranyaka (3.0) quest, specifically in a section called 'The Children of Vimara Village' the traveller is asked to tell three kids stories. Paimon references Kaeya directly and they follow the template of telling the children stories about our feats by following what Kaeya has said.

I won't include the whole dialogue section because it would be too long. But essentially: they tell Iotham about Dvalin, Kavus about Osial, and Sudabeh about Ei and Yae Miko. I believe that might be because Signora's story and ending aren't exactly suitable for children, given that she got executed by one of the 'distinguished ladies' after losing a match to the death against the traveller.

Later in the Caribert quest we meet Kaeya at the start and find out he's the descendant of the Abyss Order's founder, Clothar. Now, stay with me please, I admit that this might be a stretch on my part but I do believe if you squint your eyes it makes sense, but what if I tell you that was also foreshadowed in his story quest?

In his story quest, he talks about his grandfather and the sword he had. at the end of the quest, Kaeya does give us the harbinger of dawn to make up for him tricking us. now, if we take into account the time loop theory (which has been proven to at least some extent with the Aranara and all) and the fact that since Kaeya is a descendant of Clothar and our sibling is the prince/princess of the abyss order which Clothar founded, you could kind of say they're vaguely related, and since all that happened like centuries ago and Kaeya is in his alleged 20's, heck, the abyss twin is basically their grandparent!

It's also worth mentioning that the sword harbinger of dawn could also be tied to Dainsleif, otherwise known as "The Twilight Sword." the description of the sword could be vaguely tied to him as well as one who "failed in his duty".

Of course, that piece of dialogue isn't the only thing that foreshadowed the reveal of Kaeya being related to the Abyss Order's founder or even him being some sort of vague royalty. (Regent, I know, but still they're regents that stepped up and took charge)(For the sake of having consistent sources of where I got info from, the regent thing was confirmed in the 2.7 Hidden Strife event). However, before we knew he was a regent, the Kaeya prince theory was by no means unpopular, and there's a collection of things that allude to it. He has a voice line about Fischl in which he teases how appropriate it'd be for him to be a descendant of a royal person. he's the only blade-carrying Knight of Favonius whose normal attacks start with 'Favonius Bladework'. Instead, his normal attacks are titled 'Ceremonial Bladework'.

I cannot find photos for these which saddens me, but I can swear that his second passive talent was named 'Heart of the Abyss' before it was changed to 'Glacial Heart', and his first constellation was 'Royal Blood' before it was changed to 'excellent blood' both of which were great contributors for the theory. I'd greatly appreciate it if anyone who has the photos could provide them I feel like I'm going crazy, I'm sure I saw photos before but I can only find people talking about it.

and personally, the craziest one in my opinion is his 'More About Kaeya IV' voice line, which actually teased the five sinners of Khaenri'ah that Dainsleif told us about in Bedtime Story (4.7 !!?)

there was some suspicion about the voice line back in 3.5 when we originally met one of the sinners through our sibling's memories, but I thought nothing could be proven by one guy who goes by sinner because well, maybe he called himself that because that's what they're viewed as! and kaya saying that could be coming from a similar place of talking about Khaenri'ahns as sinners because that's the view that led to their downfall or something. but no there's a kind of group actually titled the sinners that mess with things, that Kaeya seems to be fully aware of.

honorable mentions for things that I personally think will also gain relevance at some point:

possibly relating to a Khaenri'ahn tradition about their right eye? he isnt the first one we've seen with something covering his eye.

Owls are closely tied to the Ragnvindr family actually, and I'm pretty sure that the owl of Dragonspine is supposed to like either a fictional made-up thing or something that's never supposed to be seen, i cannot for the life of me remember where i got that from i might be lying but i remember something like that (maybe the dragonspine gliders?)

Not a screenshot because it's just my personal idea, but I will die on this hill: Kaeya's vision backstory states that after Crepus died, Kaeya was overwhelmed with guilt about it, so much so that he actually went to Diluc's doorstep and confessed everything. Diluc was enraged and the two of them fought. Seems straightforward, except it isn't like, at all actually.

There was a side to Kaeya that he kept hidden from the world: In truth, he was an agent of Khaenri'ah, placed in to serve their interests. His father had abandoned him in this strange and unknown land to fulfill this mission, and it was Master Crepus and the city of Mondstadt that had welcomed him with open arms when they found him. If Khaenri'ah and Mondstadt went to war, which side should he support? To whom should he offer his assistance: his birth father, who had ruthlessly abandoned him? Or his adoptive father, who had loved him and raised him? For the longest time, Kaeya had agonized over these impossible questions, caught between the opposing demands of loyalty and duty, faced with an impossible choice between truth and happiness. But now, Crepus' death upset this delicate balance. He felt liberated, but also ashamed of how selfishly he was responding. As an adopted son, he should have saved Crepus, but he had arrived moments too late. As a brother, he should have shared in Diluc's grief, and yet as their father lay dying on the ground, he had hung back behind his brother, that ancient plot running through his mind.

I have two main points that don't make sense to me about this:

He felt guilty about not showing up on time to help Crepus and Diluc, and Crepus dying made him more conflicted than grief-filled because Crepus was one of the main things tying him to Mondstadt. He found himself deliberating 'that ancient plot' literally right there and then, not even as an afterthought. That guilt then made him confess all his secrets to Diluc, literally in the same day. What I think doesn't fully make sense is the fact that Crepus dying doesn't really feel like enough of a reason for him to go spelling all his secrets. I get that he felt guilty about not feeling all full of grief and instead thinking about a personal conflict, but imo that doesn't seem like enough of a reason to spill secrets of the gravity that Kaeya seems to be holding on to, especially on the same day that it happened in the first place. He spent almost no time mulling it over and thinking about whether or not he should tell Diluc or not, it's almost like not telling him right away would've made everything even worse somehow. Which brings me to my second point.

Why was Diluc so upset over what Kaeya had to say? Kaeya said he anticipated his anger, but what could he have possibly said to make Diluc in his state of grief be angry enough to immediately fight with full intent to harm and possibly even kill his brother, the closest person to him other than his father? Kaeya being an agent of Khaenri'ah doesn't seem like enough of a reason for all that I think. Maybe anger and being really upset, especially considering the timing of it all, but drawing their blades against each other? instantly? you could argue the response was that extreme because Diluc wasn't thinking clearly and was mourning, and the fact that Kaeya was lying about his whole identity ever since he stepped foot in the manor might've set him off, and I'd agree honestly. But I still think both of their reactions were incredibly extreme, even with their heightened emotions.

His vision! every faithful Kaeya enthusiast knows that his vision is slightly different from other Mondstadt vision holders, i don't buy that it was just an honest design mistake honestly, it's an easy fix and a weird mistake to make in the first place, and considering who the vision belongs to I think it was very intentional. maybe his vision is fake and his cryo is actually abyss powers or something ooo (also kind of a joke I have no clue)

I made a whole extensive post about Kaeya's design and all the little details in it (check it out you want to soooo bad it's pinned in my profile) but I think one of the things that could be a subtle foreshadowing and tying into the whole paragraph I made is that Kaeya has some vague fatui elements in his outfit! which is a crazy thing imo

This is all I can come up with at the moment. There might be more that I'm forgetting or unaware of, but I think all this is worth keeping in mind. I love Kaeya and he's been my main for three years, ever since I started playing, but I'd be lying if I told you I don't think he's lying to everyone about a whole bunch of things. I think he might be genuinely conflicted about whether he should stay loyal to his origins or the people who have actually raised and taken care of him, but that does not mean he's not privy to a lot more information than he lets on. Kaeya kind of seems like he knows how everything will turn out, everything he says and does is intentional and thought out. I need him dead, or a 5*.

I'd love to hear anything else you think is suspicious or might take on more meaning in the future from Kaeya! also please correct me if im wrong about anything, a lot of these are thoughts that have been circulating in my head for like years atp but i might've forgotten technicalities on some stuff.

[finisnihil]

Somebody has probably already proposed this but I have this theory that Kaeya's father abandoned him to save him.

Starting off, I want to lay down some ground stuff revealed in 4.7.

Clothar established the Abyss Order and the ilk obviously. In his bid to save Caribert and Khaenri'ah, the Loom of Fate was started and an eight year old Caribert was used to construct the Loom. We also know constructing the Loom involves creating an artificial god, which is why they have the body of Osial. This fits in a lot with this underlying theme of child sacrifice to divinity in a bid to preserve or restore civilization (think The Sun Children and Ruu alongside Caribert as examples).

Next, let's look at the significance of the curse. Kaeya somehow seem unaffected by the curse in a way that differs from everyone else. He is not a hilichurl/other abyssal entity and from what we see of him, his body is not taken by the curse the way Dainsleif's is. He also grows and develops normally, unaffected by concepts of immortality. This is weird because even children that aren't fully Khaenri'ahn (like Caribert) were affected in some manner so why does Kaeya fall outside most aspects of the curse? The only thing that could be affected is his right eye which was hidden even when Crepus found him. We'll come back to the eye thing so put a pin in it for now.

One of the hardest parts of this theory is proving Kaeya's father didn't want to leave him, but I think I can do that. In the note we find squirreled away in the Knights of Favonius HQ, there's a somewhat burned note. It was originally written in a child's handwriting and rewritten in an adults. It's implied this was Kaeya's father aiding him. What's interesting is that in the written

This itself shows a deviance from the Abyss Order. The Abyss Order seeks to restore Khaenri'ah but this aligns with Dainsleif's mindset, the idea that Khaenri'ah is embers and to chase its restoration is to be unable to move on from your past.

Kaeya notes the paper was discreetly saved because there was a policy of leaving no physical remains of their existence, as though he was stopping them from being tracked. Kaeya also adds this:

Kaeya's father was grieving in a way Kaeya couldn't understand having grown up in Mondstadt. There's many things that could be grieved, Khaenri'ah as one, but I think it's the leaving of Kaeya based on his words from 3.1:

It's obvious he knows this hurt's Kaeya but he begs for his forgiveness. This aligns with the idea of grief, him grieving writing with his son and burning the evidence because it will truly leave him with nothing to remember his son, especially with the erosion aspect of the immortality.

This also emphasizes the Ragnvindrs as where Kaeya's father meant him to go. Kaeya's father left him in the homeland of Caribert's mother, the city of freedom, when it's implied Venti was slumbering. He intentionally left him where the Ragnivindrs would take him in. He made this move during a severe storm, one so severe Kaeya could've died, when it would be hardest to follow or see them. This aligns with the spy part but let's put a pin in that too.

The next part of this theory to tackle is why Kaeya's father did this in the first place. My proposal is that he was to be used as the body of the artificial god before Osial.

Removing the pin in the eye topic, there's a big theme of Khaenri'ahn characters having an eye covered. Dainsleif, Pierro, King Irmin, and Kaeya... It's not weird. It stands out with Kaeya however because we don't know what's wrong with the eye. It's injured now but only after his fight with Diluc. He's not blind in it either.

We also know the eye of the first field tiller was vital to the Loom.

Kaeya isn't just the least cursed, he's also the closest to divinity. He gained a Vision, which completely contradicts his Khaenri'ahn heritage in a way that even the game questions. It's also a Cryo vision, one that highlights ambition related to feeling isolated from or stuck between two aspects of one's identity (ex. Shenhe being raised by adeptus yet not fitting in fully because she's human while also not fitting in with humans due to being raised by adepti).

I think Kaeya's father left Kaeya in Mondstadt with the Ragnivindrs to protect him from the Order. The Ragnivindrs are one of the biggest families with power in Mondstadt and being part of their family would put Kaeya in the public eye. Not only that, but he's now under Venti's protection, who obviously holds no grudge against the Khaenri'ahns.

Circling back to the spy point now, why would he tell him that? To keep him there. Kaeya could take his chances and cut and run. Giving him a reason to stay would ensure he didnt throw himself to the wolves after his father left. A spy has to check in periodically to gather the intel, but nobody came to get information from Kaeya. The spy aspect was obviously a cover that further shows that Kaeya's father was not really affiliated with the Order.

Well... What about the line of being their last hope?

I don't think his father actually meant the last hope for Khaenri'ah's return. I think he meant the last hope for Khaenri'ah to move on and heal. In the same way Dainsleif believes the remnants still lucid should find a way to live on in spite of what happened, Kaeya's father wanted Kaeya to do the same. Khaenri'ah will live on in his son living a happy life, safe from the Abyss Order, a Khaenri'ah that isn't corrupted by the Five Sinners and the Cataclysm.

Kaeya's father left him in Mondstadt because it was the City of Freedom, and from what I extrapolated from the above evidence, that was because he wanted his child and the remnants of Khaenri'ah to be free from the Abyss. Kaeya himself says it in his annotations, he cannot fully understand his father's grief because the life he has in Mondstadt freed him mostly of those burdens. He doesn't really hold a grudge against his father because of it.

In the same way that Caribert is half Khaenri'ah and half Mondstadt, so is Kaeya, and ultimately Kaeya ended up living the life Caribert ached for within the Loom. The parallels between Caribert and Kaeya and their fathers are intentional. Caribert holds a resentment for his father because he sacrificed his son for Khaenri'ah; Kaeya doesn't seem to resent his father because Kaeya's father seems to have sacrificed Khaenri'ah for his son.

Thank you for reading, I know there's probably holes in this somwhere but this is just a theory based on my interpretation of Kaeya's father over several events. I hope you enjoyed this, have a great day, mwah!

[raylazuko]

Genshin Spoilers

Okay okay lemme cook for a second.

Anyone else find the blood purity and relations shit weird?

Like what we know now is that Caribert died at age 8 in the creation of the loom of fate. So therefore Caribert has no heir and was also regarded as an illegitimate child by Clothar and that his mother is of Mondstandt origin. So he is not pureblood which is why he was turned into a hillichurl.

We can make assumptions that Clothar had no other children with this woman or if he did, they are still monsters and not able to repoduce, so therefore there are no halfblood heirs of Clothar.

Next I have to talk about race and geography since I’m such a nerd about this crap. So many characters should have darker complexions based on how much sun they get (Sumeru desert, Natlan, and Liyue, PLAYABLE character not just NPCs.) Like if Mualani looks dark compared to 90% of the cast, we have a problem.

So let’s assume Teyvat is a globe and it’s laid out on a flat map for us to see. Let’s also assume that the climate is similar to earth. Let’s assume the equator is around the center so like above most of Liyue and Sumeru. Parts of Mondstandt being based on Italy, it should have a medeterranean climate, therefore melanin, but I digress. Okay so the Sumeru deserts and Natlan are close to the equator. Inazuma would be closer to the South Pole and has a harsh climate hence people not getting sun. (This is also ignoring places like Fontaine which is based on France, where yes, Black people exist in real life, but I digress). The only playable characters with dark(er) skin as well as NPCs are from Natlan and Sumeru (and also Xinyan for some reason).

We also know from Dainsleif, Halfdan, and the Sinners, that they use Norse names. Also Khaenri’ah being underground would mean they got little to no natural light. So it’s safe to assume pureblood Khaenriahs are white as fuck.

With this knowledge, wtf is going on with Kaeya?

We also have to examine how this curse works. If all the non pure bloods were turned into monsters, it’s safe to assume they can’t reproduce. Also judging by Kaeya very clearly being a child in the past and growing up with Diluc, it’s safe to assume that the modern Khaenri’ahns have a normal lifespan (unless being halfblood is what dictates that). It may have diminished or weakened over time, throughout the generations. We don’t know the exact mechanics but we can assume that Kaeya has a normal lifespan. I know Hoyo is gonna try to say he’s pureblood and not explain stuff but logically, no. When he sees Dain he comments “you’re a pureblood Khaenri’ahn” implying that, he, Kaeya, is not that. Also there’s the Sumeru trip when he was young. Assuming that his father is the one with the Alberich surname, which makes sense judging by how surnames usually work, we can assume that Kaeya’s mother was the one who isn’t Khaenri’ahn.

We can assume that the only Khaenrians who could reproduce from that original cursed generation were the ones who retained human form (pure bloods). We can also assume that Kaeya is a descendent of one of Clothar’s pure blood children. He probably had an affair with Caribert’s mother out of wedlock. We can also assume that more blood mixing naturally occurred over time. So either Kaeya’s family has been mixed for awhile and it’s no big deal, or more likely, Kaeya’s father had an affair with Kaeya’s mother out of wedlock. Judging by how dark he is compared to the majority of characters, his Indian inspired outfit for his in-game skin, the trade trip to Sumeru, when he was young, and the geographical proximity, it’s safe to assume that Kaeya’s mother is probably Sumerian (and likely from the desert and Eremite affiliated). I could go deeper into what I think may have happened but for sake of brevity, it’s very possible and likely that one reason Kaeya was sent as a spy and to Mondstandt and not made an heir to the clan has to do with the fact that he’s an illegitimate child.

Okay, another additional note. Ragnvindr is a Norse name, make of that information what you will.

[anantaru]

i finished the new dainsleif archon quest and the lore was very nice and interesting! 🙏🏻 answering many unanswered questions! but i wished we would‘ve spend more time with dainsleif or kaeya (at least dainsleif) i didn‘t expect for us to be alone for the entire time with clothar but it‘s okay! i really want to know more about that voice of the abyss ?? now though, or how dain said, 'he' 😏 or how he said, 'the sinner' 😏 (the voice was hot i‘m sorry i couldn‘t resist)

i‘m so happy we got to learn more about the curse too, i always wondered what split dainsleif from the hilichurls, so basically all the pure bloods have the immortality curse dainy style and the ones that don‘t, have become monsters 🥲 i was wondering about this the entire time so i‘m happy they casually dropped that BAHAHAHA

on the topic of clothar, that english voice actor gave it his all he was insanely good imo and so creepy with the laughs, displaying the insanity of someone with the curse so greatly, now it’s unclear what happened to caribert, i’m excited for future stuff and i have already seen theories!!! 😏 yes over all, a good quest, a little short, 7/10, the lore was amazing but i really wanted to spend more time with dainy or at least talk a little more, it‘s fine though!!! 💝

also just saying, when we found the literal skeletons of clothar and ?? i was so caught off guard because that‘s just so creepy but the way the traveller and dain were so casual about it bye and paimon all scared BAHHAAH i wonder how clothar did it, so somehow he was able to die??? dainsleif seemed so confused, i‘m so sad though because we probably have to wait so long for an update on this and on who the 'he' is dainsleif talked about! :(

[jayisabells]

!!!SPOILERS!!!

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Here are some quick lore tidbits and some thoughts I had for the most recent archon quest: Caribert

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About Khaneri'ah and the Abyss. They are two separate places, or it seems that way by what Chlothar said. And it seems Khaneri'ah was interested on it, probably because the Abyss is the opposite of Celestia.

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About the Abyss sibling. We now have confirmation that they have abysmal powers/control of the Abyss. Or at least Chlothar and the people of Khaneri'ah thought they did. And before becoming the Prince/Princess of the Abyss Order, they were the Prince/Princess of Khaeri'ah. So they did spend a significant amount of time with the people of Khaneri'ah while the traveler slept. And was close to the royalty of Khaneri'ah/nobels (Chlothar). Things we don't know is why or for how long the traveler was asleep/unconcious before the abyss woke them up. Was it that the traveler couldn't wake up, they were separated, or the abyss sibling chose not to.

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About Hilichurls' masks. What is under them? What is so horrifying about their faces that made it so a conscious one would want to die. Crack Theory: you know how sometimes we can see the inside of the 3d models's faces, that is what a hilichurls face looks like.

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About the curse. There are two curses, ones for those with Khaneri'ahn blood (immortals) and ones who used to live under the dominion of the seven and left for Khaneri'ah (hilichurls). Clothar said those with blood got the worse, but I think becoming a hilichurl/monster is worse. And it makes more sense to me that those who betrayed the seven got "worse."

Also the curse is curable and that is why the Abyss Order is set on doing that. They know it is and Caribert, if Chlothar kept treating Caribert and himslef with the medicine blessed by the 'Sinner,' both of them would have been cured.

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Mama definitely was used as fertilizer, that's probably why these worked. And the mushrooms are discolored rukkasheva mushrooms. I wonder if the Abyss Order is killing people and using their bodies as fertilizers for these mushrooms, or if they found another way.

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About the Sinner/He. Who is he? Not a god, a sinner, the opposite of the archons. He can give blessings, possibly gave some of his powers to Caribert.

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What is the Abyss Order doing then? When we met the Sinner, it was in a place that had a giant gem stone chained up and radiating power, causing things to worship it without their control. The game even makes the comparison to the defiled statue. The Abyss Order is trying to recreate this scene, with the defiled statue/other objects similar to it, to encounter the Sinner again. The Sinner has the potential to save the people of Khaneri'ah. And if the Sinner tried to transfer his power/himself into Caribert, then he would need something stronger because Caribert couldn't handle it. That is why the Abyss Order want to make a mechincal god, a vessel for the Sinner.

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Are we just not going to question the psychic twins thing going on? Dain explained this away as the ley lines, but it also happened in the Chasm and the dandelion thing. When the twins both have powers, are they psychically connected? Do both of them get visions of what the other is doing and both of them are unaware the other does?

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Some more of my little thoughts:

What are the twins powers? Is the Abyss Royal's control over the Abyss part of their original power or something they attained in Teyvat/Khaneri'ah, similar to how the Traveler is attaining the power of the seven. Or do they just have the power of the Abyss (including space)? And was that part of the powers the traveler had or was the traveler opposite, with light powers?

Kaeya is interesting. I see some confusion about how he is not a hilichurl or how he is not immortal. And the answer is that there are a lot of things we don't know. For example, when his parents were born. Which if they were immortal then the immortality didn't get passed down. (Unless after some point, children just stop aging because we do know that he was a child and grew up). Maybe his parents met after the cataclysm and after the curse and their child wasn't affected. With every question we have answered we get 10 more.

I don't think Paimon is going to betray us. I think we might betray Paimon. When the abyss sibling was traveling Teyvat, they also called themselves the Traveler (by what Chlothar said). We are the traveler now, and history has a tendency to repeat in Teyvat. We will go our separate ways, just like what happened with Dain. Although, I do like the theory that Paimon is actually a physical manifestation/holds the traveler's sealed powers. And Paimon knows they will eventually disappear.

I do like how when the dream/memory questline starts, Dain waking the traveler up and sees them crying about dreaming of their sibling can also be interpreted as the same thing happening in the past. Also what was Dain doing and why was he gone for so long in the past? Sussy Dain

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I absolutely loved this quest. I loved how we appreciate Paimon so much, and I'm terrified about what is going to happen next.

[hematomes]

Ok so some of my friends think caribert is kaeya whats your take on this theory ?

that's interesting but no, it's disprovable on a few accounts!!

- right off the bat, kaeya has the primogem-shaped eye, and he himself underlines how this shape means smn is a pure-blooded khaenri'an (that's how he recognizes dainsleif as such). potential counter-argument: we don't know what his other eye looks like. but assuming he is pure-blooded, he couldn't have been cursed with the "wilderness" (= hilichurls)

- he mentions how, when he was young, he tried to go to sumeru to reconnect with his khaenri'an origins and was collected by his caregiver's servants (aka the ragnvindr). that corroborates with what we know of his childhood alongside diluc, hence putting him in his twenties

caribert's story was likely hundreds of years ago, considering clothar was the founder of the abyss order and disappeared 100 years after founding it (and he founded it after the events with caribert, as that's when he met the sinner and discovered abyssal energy powers etc). so kaeya being caribert would also mean he's several hundred years old, which seems unlikely since he grew up with diluc (who's canonically in this 20s) in mondstadt

SO YEAH really cool theory but it doesn't hold much weight. i do believe he's linked to caribert and the abyss, considering his kit is so closely tied to cryo abyss mages, his ancestor founded the order, he has a pure-blooded eye but his other one is masked...

[blood-orange-juice]

The problem is, this still doesn't explain anything. None of the questions we currently have even resemble a Nibelung reference.

Those that are relevant:

I wonder if someone *stole* an invention from Rhinedottir and used it in a wrong way. Maybe she isn't the only one to blame for the fall of Khaenri'ah.

Were Alberichs safekeepers of the cursed treasure or were they using it for their own gain? Caribert's quest implies the latter, Clothar being the Abyss Order founder (and Jakob says they are no different from the archons in their goals). It's such a specific surname to use, I refuse to think it's random.

The dragon's treasure the boy found is Nibelung's treasure. The forbidden knowledge (that was obvious but nice to see that it's the same thing the dragons acquired).

Everything else:

Why does Kaeya need an eyepatch? Maybe he sees things that shouldn't be seen? (or maybe it's a reference to the Khaenria'hn half-mask worn by others and nothing more)

The original Ajax seems to be post-Enkanomiyan. It had to be already fallen for him to find a dead king. A Cataclysm hero maybe (or, as Cricket says, this all might be a mishmash of different stories with a kid's name slapped on it). That would explain baby Ajax's father being so invested in the story. For Snezhnayans everything from that time still seems to hold a lot of significance.

(all other theories why he's so invested are too insane to develop them now)

Who the hell was the wise priest. Skirk/follower of the same tradition? Skirk is the whale-god's priest, I'm calling it. Kokomi with her whale video fits right in.

Who the hell was the king. "Was bright as day" is a dead giveaway that was Enkanomiya but it never had a proper king. So who the hell was that dude? Also Foul Legacy is called "armor of the demon king" in CN so I assume it's *that* king?

Also wait, from vol.2 of Before Sun and Moon:

"The Parable of the Tree" The king's gardener and the tree spirit of the royal garden were in love. But the king wished to repair the beams of his pavilion, and so needed to cut down the tree with the most spiritual energy within it. The king was the incarnation of the Primordial One, and the gardener could not defy the sovereign of sovereigns, and so he could only bring his plea to the king's priest, who was the incarnation of Tokoyo Ookami. The priest had pity on the gardener and said to him: "Go, and cut the branches of the spirit-tree down." The gardener did so, and afterward did as the king ordered, cutting the spirit-tree itself down. Then the priest said: "Plant the spirit-tree's branches in the ground." But the gardener said: "A spirit-tree shall take five hundred years to grow." The priest said: "Your one thought shall echo through eternity." And so the gardener planted the branches in his back yard. In an instant, the slim branches grow into a new tree, and the new tree spirit was a continuation of the past one. For it is the God of Moments who is able to take "seeds" from this "moment" into the past and the future.

*ahem* sacred sakura *ahem*

I don't get this story at all and also that king sounds like a jerk and also... the incarnation of Phanes? the incarnation of Istaroth (Tokoyo Ookami)? hello?

(this would also imply that Skirk is the incarnation/priest of Istaroth. I don't like it)

I'm also curious about the gold that can cure sick friends. There's definitely a parallel with Jakob's story. Art of Khemia/creation magic, I assume?

Ok. Can we talk about The Ballad of the Fjords again. This is all extremely obvious but I'm starting to see the value of writing down obvious things.

I've been thinking about Kaeya's surname pretty much since his release. Because, you know, Alberich. The svartálfar king who safekeeps Nibelung's treasure in Nibelungenlied ("The Song of Nibelungs", 13th century poem. do you see the parallel with "The Ballad of the Fjords"?). And now three years later we have things to tie it back to.

The Things:

The dragon Nibelung who acquired the forbidden knowledge from outside this world and led the other ancient dragons into war against The Heavenly Principles (according to Nahida's second quest).

Nibelung refers to all kinds of creatures in Norse and Old German stories, sometimes it's a dragon, somethimes it's a group of svartálfar (dwarves/elves/fae, for simplicity).

Rhinedottir the alchemist, the creator of our beloved horrors. Theorised to be the one who discovered/created something that led to Khaenri'ahs downfall.

She's a reference to Rhinemaidens invented by Wagner, spirits of watery depth and keepers of magical gold. If you were looking for Enkanomiya/primordial sea/whale connections, here's another one.

Also in Wagner's operas Alberich is the main antagonist of the Rings of Nibelung cycle (one of the few characters that stay alive too!), the one who steals the gold from the Rhinemaidens (renouncing love in exchange for power) and the one whos actions lead to the death of gods and the desctruction of Valhalla.

(something something arrogation of mankind obligatory mention)

And now we have The Ballad of the Fjords BP spear and its description:

If this is not a Nibelung mythos reference I don't know what this is.

[kaeyachi]

Am I the only one, who finds the lore of descendants of those, who abandon their gods, turning into hilis, ridiculous?

You want to tell me, that in the whole history of teyvat, nobody ever witnessed their unbelieving uncle turn into a hilichurl, because he spit on the imagine of the shogun or something?

What about the sages? Even scara said that Nahida's people abandoned her. Yet last time I checked the sages didn't turn wild.

Or is it the act of leaving celestia's grace and going underground to Khaenri'ah something that seals the curse? And you want to tell me, that in the history before the cataclysm, nobody knew, that going to the surface will kill their humanity?

Seems like something hoyo didn't plan properly

Doesn’t Kaeya's character story imply that he was born and raised in Khaenri'ah (or what remained) before his father brought him to the strange lands of Mondstadt (the literal starter region that is so basic)

If the HSR crew did the lore of Genshin we would have known about his childhood before Mondstadt by know.

Man, if the Genshin crew did HSR lore than Dan Heng's secret and story arc would have been resolved 5 patches later lol

And March's past would have still not been touched on, I was so surprised that she herself suggested to use the Matrix to find some clues! I didn't expect much but that was a Genshin would never moment for me

Hey there anon! Here are the answer to some of your questions!

- Yes, they have to enter Khaenri'ah for the hilichurl curse to work. The act of turning against your archon is easy because archons come and go. The major difference is that by choosing to stay in Khaenri'ah, you are basically declaring that you are against Celestia and the seven

- People have observed others turn into monsters before. In fact, Khaenri'ah is not the first nation Celestia cursed. Turning into a monster is also not as fast as most people think it is.

- Caribert was implied to have stayed in Khaenri'ah for a while with Clothar's voiceline where he tells Caribert that there is "no more red sky". Clothar brought his lover and his illegitimate son closer to him, and that was their downfall. He met the prerequisites I mentioned above.

- Khaenri'ah probably knew that non-purebloods going to the surface would turn them into monsters, if the Perinheri tale is to be trusted. They would end up choosing a select number of families or clans that they know are purebloods (non-Teyvatian). Arguably, this could be why the Alberich clan was so hell-bent on keeping blood purity.

- The Cataclysm is basically a "die here if you choose to stay" or "leave this place and lose your humanity" situation

-Kaeya's story does not imply that he was in Khaenri'ah. At most, they mentioned his father teaching him and talking about their clan, but no direct mention of Kaeya ever having stepped foot inside it. Additionally, Kaeya's attitude of subtly trying to research more about Khaenri'ah somewhat implies that he doesn't have much information other than anything related to his "mission" from his father. Again, Kaeya was once a little boy who purposely attempted to run away from the Ragnvindr family when he saw a chance to go to Sumeru and, therefore, learn more about Khaenri'ah.

- Lmao don't expect any Mondstadt slander from me. I love that nation, and I know that nation so much that I believe there is something more to it. Also, do note that Mondstadt is a hub for people with mysterious lore, not just Kaeya. I guess we can argue that Mond is a starter nation for all of them too ig.

Finally, FYI FOR EVERYONE

I do not care for HSR v. Genshin discourse! Please take this issue somewhere else, okay guys? I am a Kaeya blog 90% of the time and 10% of everything else, and I do not have space in my 10% for arguments ✌️ but for the record, I prefer playing Genshin for a multitude of reasons. Take that as you will.

[kaeyachi]

Ok I watched the Caribert quest with a fresher mind (yes it takes weeks to refresh my mind), and now I have additional thoughts from my scrambled egg brain:

- The Caribert is Kaeya theory was honestly a genuinely good idea for a moment due to curious text lines... I only doubt it due to different voice actors for Kaeya's father and Clothar Alberich. For the most part, a solid theory if we can ignore the voice actor tidbit. Otherwise, I think he is from Clothar's legitimate line or Clothar has a brother or two (based on who he was inspired by)

- the Khaenri'ahn library honestly feels like the Library of Alexandria at this point. This is the same library that apparently had the information Clothar needed to try and cure Caribert. Also, in the beginning of the quest, Kaeya mentions a book he read in his youth that mentioned where Khaenri'ah (or one of the entry points anyway) is located which I guess is probably not found within the Ragnvindr collection because he mentioned himself that he had just been taken in. Imagine the centuries of information they must have had to become the most advanced nation of their time (and even now). With Khaenri'ah gone, 90% of that library's information is probably destroyed. That definitely set back the entirety of Teyvat lmao

- I think I mentioned in a previous post how curious it is that people of Teyvat don't know that Khaenri'ahns (non-full blooded ones anyway) were turned into hilichurls. When was the Caribert quest set though? Because the forest rangers there didn't know about it at all, and if transforming into hilichurls was a slow process, the lack of information these people have is weird... unless everyone who transformed only transformed during the war in Khaenri'ah, which is why Clothar was telling Caribert "no more red skies, no more war"

- speaking of those forest rangers... the way they talk about hilichurls left a bad taste in my mouth. I have the feeling that the Knights of Favonius also have several knights talk like that....... and Kaeya has to hear that regularly...he has been for nearly a decade.......

- For the abyss twin to be called the Prince/Princess of Khaenri'ah, they must have been taken in by Alberich clan right? I wanted to say King Irmin took them in, but then I wondered why they didnt become the king/queen themselves and instead got the Alberich clan to be regents. The Alberich clan was far larger than I think it was (its probably a very large family for sure if Clothar can say that it's impossible for our twin to know everyone even though Clothar is an Alberich himself). Our twin never became the king/queen so our twin being adopted by the Alberichs sound more likely (Kaeya calling our twin uncle/aunt, could yall imagine? Or even brother/sister... Kaeya calling them gramps/grandma HAHAHA)

- Even within the abyss order, they can't call our twin the king/queen. Dainsleif mentioned there's an order to these things, and since an Alberich was the founder... by heir right, should there be no other Alberich, that would really mean that Kaeya is their next king. Yikes, I'd get drunk daily too if i were him.

I think I have a theory forming within my brain regarding the crystal the hilichurls were worshipping... but thats for next time.

[kaeyachi]

Your thoughts on the theory of Kaeya being the loom of fate?

thanks for the ask! I think it's a really good theory! here is my additional reasoning beyond what many have already stated:

I found it curious that Dainsleif did not know of Kaeya for (what we can assume) the 2 entire decades of Kaeya's existence in Teyvat. Oddly enough, Dainsleif also doesn't know much about the loom of fate beyond mentions by the abyss twin.

Dainsleif not knowing of Kaeya and the LoF? That's...interesting... isn't it easier to hide 1 thing instead of 2 things to someone like Dain?

And Kaeya seemed to have implied that he was not a pureblood Khaenri'ahn, and yet he did not turn into a hilichurl. He is quite literally a miracle baby by Khaenri'ahn standards. How did he not catch wind of him earlier? Especially if Dain frequented Angel's Share? Kaeya must be really good at hiding... (hiding some biiiiig secret according to Paimon)

While I definitely do not think Kaeya is Caribert (off of the choice of having 2 different VAs for Kaeya's dad and Clothar), I do think said status of being the Loom of Fate could be passed down the Alberich line

One additional thing, but I'd like to think there are 3 Alberich brothers. Pierro (help founded the Fatui), Clothar (founded the Abyss Order), and Kaeya's father (put his hopes and dreams onto the miracle child). The idea of all 3 brothers having created the greatest risks to Teyvat/Celestia all for the sake of Khaenri'ah sounds really sexy lorewise if you ask me hehehehehe

[dragonsarecats]

well considering we've meet four immortal non-God characters at this point (both travelers, Dain, and now Chlothar) I think we can safely assume that in genshin immortal means unaging? Since all four of them canonically have not physically aged during the story.

I do like your point of Caribert maybe being the King of the Abyss order and your point that Clothar not being the only Alberich is solid but I just don't think they'd have Kaeya appear in this quest for him to not be directly related to Clothar? And I think it's unlikely, from the way he talked about his past, for him to have had any other children before Caribert or after so to me the most likely explanation is that Kaeya either is Caribert or is a descendant, with me personally leaning towards the latter based off the Kaeya/Dain interaction.

I think the curse of Khaenri'ah is more complex that what you're describing personally? Because we know standard hilichuurls aren't the only type of transformed Khaen'riahns (at the very least mita- and samachuurls count as variations, with certain abyss enemies being debatable). Something we also know is that Kaeya is described by his father as the last hope for his nation, and while that can have a lot of interpretable meanings at the very least it means that however the curse affects him it's more than meets the eye.

Also it's not that the curse can't be broken but rather that it's assumed to be unbreakable? And that's why the Traveler's sibling was working on a way to reverse it in the Chasm archon quest? At the very least something happened to Caribert as a result of the abyssal powers to change/reshape/or even remove his curse entirely.

going INSANE over the implications about kaeya with this new quest. he called dain a "pureblooded khaen'riahn" which we later learn means he suffers from the curse of immortality, of which kaeya definitely does not have because he grew up in Mondstadt. kaeya's pupils are different from the other "pureblooded khaenriahns" we've seen because there's is more of a hollow outline??? idk also the fact that we have NO idea what happened to caribert means that he could be kaeya's ancestor also?? because otherwise how is he an alberich??? anyways kaeya mains stay winning ig because they definitely are not stopping here like i lowkey feared lol

[kaeyachi]

I'm a little confused! What DID happen to caribert? When he took off his mask? And why did "we" pass out when that happened? And why was Mr Clothar Alberich (still wilding about ACTUALLY meeting one of kaeyas bio ancestors!) not appearing very upset about it after we woke up? I feel like I'm missing something!

thank you for asking!

and wow, I was actually going to make a post about how the quest felt like it was deliberately done to get us confused and for us to expect a part 2...

i actually expect a 2nd part or at least something involving kaeya, Khaenri'ah, and/or his ancestors within the year due to his skin leak already (unless they really intend to make us wait a year lmao). It is one of the shortest quests we've been on, and while it is a lore bomb of a quest, it also feels like its only portions of a large puzzle instead of a fully fleshed out story

as for any ideas about what happened... ive got nothing much too! but that was intentional so i dont feel too stressed about it hehe.

so far all ive got are speculations as to what happened to Caribert and Clothar Alberich, but nothing too concrete...im not very confident with my theories on them at all unfortunately.

Us passing out though...I actually thought that part was a deliberate time skip which would explain how Clothar was acting (and I also guessed that during that time frame he got to know traveller's real identity? but oh no what if it really isnt a time skip and im just being a dummy aaaaaaaaaa)

i do have some favorite theories from others! but as for me, I'd rather get more context before i go on a deep dive and pull out my own ideas. Maybe I'll watch other people's playthroughs in case i missed anything...

hyv wanted us to have little to no context as to what happened but whatever that context is is probably a game changer- this part im sure of, because whatever it is created the abyss order.

[victorxaxvale]

OK SO firstly i wanna say that kaeya gets misinterpreted a lot and everyone is a little bit too obsessed with guessing who is his biological father.

I do think the female skeleton is caribet's mom, like i have no clue who else it could be

Now the part we care about: Caribert and Chlothar!!

Inmediately after finishing the quest i looked up all of the names from quest and i found something interesting! Chlothar I was a king of franks until he died in 561, who was then was succeded by his sons, one of them is known as Charibert I (or caribert. I don't know why they didn't stick with the similar localisation of the names but oh well). Chlothar's name means glory and he was known as "The Old", while Caribert's name means ingenious in battle. ALSO, Alberich aparently means ruler of supernatural beings, so... yeah

Chlothar is known for the expansion campaigns he held against his brothers, which is really interesting considering genshin's Chlothar founded the abyss order and is trying to expand it to all of teyvat.

Anyway! Back to the quest itself, Clothar and the traveller witnessed (and then gave to Caribert through the medicine) abyssal power, which had some forbidden knowledge (in my humble opinion btw) and that's why Caribert could regain consciousness. I also think that's what killed him, in the end, and even if it didn't like literally physically kill him, i think it changed him in a way in which he is basically dead, like corrupted beyond salvation. Or maybe something else possesed him and Caribert ceased to exist. Also, I think that Clothar died of an over exposure to forbidden knowledge, which drove him mad and finally corrupted and killed him.

I do think kaeya is a real descendant, but i don't think he was originally born in khaenriah at all. He did mention that dain has the eyes of a pure blood khaenrian, and i mention it because Kaeya's diamond pupil is very subtle in comparison. And Kaeya is aging normally. Also Kaeya mentions his biological dad quite a few times, and he says that it was his father who abandoned him; Chlothar had spent some time being dead by that point and i think Kaeya would remember like everything that has happened. I also always disliked the theory that Kaeya and Pierro are related. None of these have enough evidence + the don't make sense of you think about it + they are boring

And the sinner's voice! A lot of people on twitter were saying that it was king irmin, one of khaenria's kings and i agree!! he was my first thought but i forgot his name in the moment. There's a nice twitter thread that explains it nicely so i'll just leave it here (i don't know that much about him) I think it could be interesting if this voice is from someone we haven't really heard of yet, like an entity that existed before celestia, but who knows!

The quest was too short 😭😭 I needed more

i finished it [glass shatters, the world explodes]

Rightttt ok so what are your theories?? Who do you think the sinner is? And the female skeleton, do you think she's caribert's mom? What Happened to caribert even? Do u think he's kaeya? Im personally not sold on that theory, i think the fact that caribert had ties to mond and then thats where kaeya was also sent is a red herring. But i reeeally dont know man...