#but the sentimonster theory is not bad

[frosted-luckycharms]

Tell me, how do you feel about senti Adrien now that season 5 ended with him NOT breaking free or even learning his father was the villain all along? I feel that the innocent magical girl show we fell in love with has unintentionally become a psychological horror story.

omg hahaha so to be super duper honest i didn’t actually watch the full season 5. i watched some episodes and didn’t like them much, and heard some spoilers that i liked even less. so my knowledge of the finale comes mostly from reading a LOT of tumblr posts bc i couldn’t make myself actually watch through the whole season. (which was very out of character for me bc this is my fav show and i ate season 4 up like candy.)

from what i know, the s5 finale sounds absolutely awful, and i’m glad i stopped watching when i did to save myself some of the disappointment. i have no idea why the writers would build up such a cool storyline, especially the senti-adrien mystery, and then end it off in such a disappointing way. even ignoring the sentimonster aspects, what’s the point of writing a show where one of the main sources of narrative conflict from the beginning is a superhero not knowing his dad is the supervillain he’s fighting, if it’s not going to end with a dramatic, emotional confrontation where they both find out the truth?? i could talk abt this for a LONG time as u can tell lol.

so to answer your question i still love the sentiadrien story up until season 5. i was highkey vibing with the psychological horror side until it became badly written disappointing psychological horror that wouldn’t even fully commit to take itself seriously lol. if anyone has good fix-it sentiadrien fic recs, hit me up, i need them🙏🙏

[technicalknockout]

to be real i am the Biggest fucking miraculous hater me and @tk-o watchedit and HATED every moment of it. we called it miracuhell. which now means when we see miraculous referenced in any way we have A Response of sorts. and uhhhhhh honestly i have no idea how id explain it. gabriel died though which is a W. but marinette also lied and said he wasnt hawk moth and died a hero So. being adrien is suffering. and yes. hes a sentimonster. God im so good at summaries.

WHAT

[saveme-storybrooke-potc]

honestly the only thing that entertains me about this fandom are the skits and the theories.

[buggachat]

im gonna be honest i think the "adrien being a sentimonster was randomly thrown in season 4 with no planning on the writers' part" theory is really funny. like the writers of this show are just so bad at their job and so stupid that they tripped and fell in season 1 episode mr pigeon and accidentally spilled "a strange relationship to feathers" all over adrien by accident. they stubbed their toe on the coffee table and accidentally set up a mystery surrounding emilie's relationship to a feathery miraculous in season 1 volpina before we even knew what its powers were. then they spilled coffee all over their favorite shirts and at the same time spilled more white feathers around adrien in season 2 episode gorizilla. while writing the same episode someone had a really nasty sneeze and got boogers all over the script that said "use the imagery of two twin rings intertwined as the opener for the film of adrien's dead mother". they forgot to look both ways before crossing the street while writing the season 2 finale and were struck by a truck labeled "the peacock miraculous gives life" and then by a second truck with the license plate "it does so using white feathers identical to the white feathers that surround adrien in his ads" at the same time. they plummeted down an open manhole and hit the ground with a loud whack that sounded like "sentimonsters like bugette are just as real as any human..... and isn't bugette so...... perfect?" in season 3. on their way to the hospital they slipped on ice that had frozen in such a way to perfectly resemble the sentence "the word 'perfect' is consistently used throughout the series and by the creator ominously to denote how characters like adrien and kagami are 'different from everyone else', ever since season 1 episode simon says". during season 3 someone on the team got food poisoning and when they threw up felix came out instead and started another whacky series of comedic errors. the answer to the mystery of "how and why did emilie die? what life did adrien's loving mother create that she was willing to die for?" was originally gonna be "idk maybe she just exploded or somehting" probably, but then there was a really painful rock in one of the writers' shoes while walking to work that put them in a mood so bad that they forgot their original plan and instead made some bullshit up that somehow ended up being something that made sense with what we knew and put all the puzzle pieces together and actually made the show even more interesting and impactful on a rewatch because it put a lot of shots that at the time seemed random into a new and logical perspective as clear foreshadowing. it's actually impressive how stupid these silly clown writers are that they put strangely specific things so consistently throughout the entire series that resembled foreshadowing while never actually having intended it a single time! like........... really.......... really impressive............... i think..............

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Hey! I’m the anon that had issues with the amok scene in werepapas that jumped the queue (thanks for that). I just wanted to clear up that I didn’t think Ladybug’s lack of reaction made her look bad. The point wasn’t to attack Marinette but more to attack whatever twist the crew are setting up as already failed.

I’m expecting a twist like “Lila stole the rings” or “Felix gave out copies” or “Adrien isn’t actually a sentimonster” and I am expecting the crew to pat themselves on the back for fooling the audience for 2+ seasons and point to scenes like this one to say “see it was all there if you paid attention”. But if that’s the case then attention should have been called to the lack of a feather. Without it, the audience can’t tell if they are doing yet another retcon on how amoks work or leaving breadcrumbs for a larger story.

(Ask in Question)

Got it and I agree completely. Every time a plot point like this comes up I like to point out that the show is aimed at ages 5 to 12. It's not supposed to be confusing and require careful study. Everything should be ridiculously obvious to even the most casual adult viewer because five-year-olds don't have anything like media literacy. The shows they watch are supposed to teach them how stories work at a basic level. Instead of doing that, Miraculous gives them utterly baffling things that grown adults have to rely on the word of god to understand and that's assuming that the word of god doesn't change because it's not technically canon. (And that's not even getting into this show's love of retconing canon.)

In this case, the word of god on the website formerly known as Twitter implies that those were indeed Adrien's rings, but the feather didn't come out because Marinette didn't want it to.

[Image description: a tweet from the head writer reading "Like for many matters in Miraculous' magic rules, intention does play a part, otherwise Gabriel would have been very foolish to akumatize Kagami via her ring the 1st time. But there's also another point.]

I don't like this concept, but it's not terrible in theory. It is terrible in the context of canon, though. We are in season six and this has literally never been established in a clear way. The evidence the given for this season six lore is a season two episode (Riposte) where Marinette didn't know that the akumatized person was a sentimonster so she wouldn't have had a reason to care about the feather one way or the other. Even worse, this episode is arguably contradicted in season five, the season most people are likely to think about when trying to figure out how the heck amoks work. (Also worth noting that five-year-olds and most other viewers don't have access to what was said on Twitter so they will just be left to guess at what happened here.)

In Riposte, Kagami is akumatized via her ring. When that ring is broken, she is fine. No feather is released. In the season five episode Perfection, she is once again akumatized via her ring, but this time it isn't broken. Instead, she frees herself. In spite of this, the episode takes the time to have her mother freak out about the akumatization as if the use of the ring was a big deal:

Tomoe: (slams her bokken right on Gabriel's hand on the monitor) You sent a megakuma into my daughter's ring!! (presses her bokken on Gabriel's cataclysmed hand) You endangered her!! Gabriel: Tsurugi-san... calm down. Tomoe: If you don't honor your contract, Gabriel, I will make your dream disappear, just like you tried to do with mine! Don't ever forget again... that you owe me everything!

Hey, writers, this was where you were supposed to establish how amoks work when they're used as akumas. Have Gabriel say that Kagami was perfectly safe because Ladybug didn't want to release the amok! Because you didn't have him say that, the audience is going to infer that Kagami was in real danger here because that is what this scene very clearly implies. I know having him say that means actually confirming Kagami's status and you're allergic to that, but I don't care! Shit or get off the pot!

Because Perfection comes after Riposte, any sane viewer will think that Riposte has been retconned or that the ring in Riposte wasn't her amok if they even remember that Riposte used her ring as her akuma which is a big if! I'll openly admit I didn't remember that until the Werepapas stuff happened and people started freaking out. I don't remember every akuma's civilian item! I doubt that most people do. If you'd asked me, I would have guessed that that Kagami's akuma was her fencing saber because I remembered that Riposte's sword breaking frees the akuma and the episode was all about fencing so the saber just makes sense.

There's also the issue of Representation which gave us this:

Félix: ...an order from his father was enough to trouble his feelings. Kagami: (as Colt, slamming her hand on a table...) Monster. Monster! MONSTER! (...and damaging the ring in the process, and Félix collapses on the floor) Félix: The child realized that his life was linked to that ring.

We learn that Félix's ring was superficially damaged and that the damage made him collapse into a lifeless doll, letting him realize that he was a sentimonster. We're going to ignore the fact that Adrien should have been granted a similar revelation in Werepapas and focus on the lore elements implied by Félix's story.

[Image description: Fèlix's ring with a crack on its surface. The crack is clearly shown to not go the entire way through the ring. The ring is intact and functional.]

Because the standard for the show is breaking akumas and amoks, the fact that Félix's ring wasn't broken feels important to the viewer. It is perfectly logical to see this and assume that Fèlix only survived because the damage was minor.

In fact, I'd argue that the most logic read of this scene is that breaking an amok releases the feather while merely damaging it just turns off the sentimonster. The implication is not that you can do the sort of thing that would release an amok without actually releasing an amok because akumas and amoks are usually (always?) released via breaking or destroying an object, not just mildly damaging it. The idea that mild damage is enough for a release has not been well established. I feel like it has to have happened before, but I can't think of an example and that's the issue. You need to clearly establish this stuff if you want your show to be comprehensible!

If the lesson of Félix's memory is supposed to be that you can break/damage an amok without releasing the feather, then Félix's memory should have shown the ring being truly broken without him melting away since canon usually breaks stuff. Or, at the very least, we could have had this episode's akuma defeated via superficial damage to contrast Félix's memory and subtly imply that superficial damage can have different consequences. That's not what we get, though. Nightormentor is defeated via a Cataclysm:

(Just as about Nightormentor was about to blow another pack of pink dust at the Resistance, Cat Noir jumps in and disintegrates Nightormentor's blow gun with his Cataclysm, bringing out the Megakuma and de-transforming the villain back to Gabriel. The Resistance cheer on their victory)

This is why the word of god explanation is so horrifically bad even though the concept could work in a show like Miraculous where the magic system has always included an element of intent. They had multiple chances to make the lore clear and they didn't take any of them so it doesn't matter if this was always the rule. There's simply no way for anyone to know this rule based on the actual text as shown by the fact that no one could figure this rule out until the writers told them even though there were hundreds of fans trying to understand this scene. That is embarrassingly bad writing and a massive disservice to the show's target audience who literally cannot have Twitter accounts because you need to be at least thirteen to make one and the official target age range for the show is 5 to 12!!!

Please note that while I said this lore could work, I still think it's dumb. Does this mean that you can completly destroy an amok and the sentimonster will still survive if you don't want the feather released? What if Ladybug isn't around to fix things? You can't even mercy kill the Senti since they're immune to cataclysms! Poor thing is just stuck there forever, a broken toy you can't fix much like the lore for this increasingly nonsense show. And while we're on the topic, how the hell was Fèlix's ring fixed after Colt damaged it? Ladybug wasn't around to do that. Do amoks self heal over time? Someone, please, make it make sense!

[ilikekidsshows]

Saw some people talking about "maybe Adrien isn't a senti after all" because the ring doesn't produce the feather when broke, while the other part of the fandom trying to make a theory about why the amok not came out. Started from fake rings, the rings not broken at the same time (like in Crocoduel) and some other things.

and it reminded me back when the senti theory was still a hot debate in the fandom. Back then I asked a friend's who's a senti defender, "if you've never heard of senti theory, do you think you would think Adrien is a sentimonster from those hints?" because she keep yapping about this 'genius hidden hints' through the season and she admitted that no, she wouldn't even entertain the idea that Adrien is a sentimonster. Félix, maybe, but never Adrien.

This just make me realize how vague those hints were, Revelation is the only one that revealing that Adrien is a sentimonster. Even then it come from Félix' mouth, the character who's in almost every episode he's in been deceiving people left and right. How credible this information is? How does he know about all of this? Why tell Kagami and Marinette?

So fandom talking "Whats the meaning of this?" About that scene intrigue me because it is weird the amok doesn't came out after the item being broken since it's never happened before. What do you think about that scene? Is it possible that Adrien as senti is just a red herring?

---

I’d actually started considering that the crew knew SentiAdrien was a bad idea before they even went with it, which is why all the hints were so vague only a supporter of the theory would spot them, why they never said it word-for-word and why it was such a nothingburger as a “plot”. I figured they left it vague so that they could ignore it after they were done, or even deny/retcon/walk it back if they got too much backlash or just felt like it. So, like, there’s a few more convincing ideas going on that I've seen.

Adrien was never a Sentimonster; Félix was lying to make Marinette more sympathetic towards Sentimonsters because he figured she’d be easy to manipulate through Adrien. This also makes it so that Marinette (unbeknownst to herself) only lied half as much to Adrien as she thought, which is probably supposed to make her look better.

The world reboot made Adrien a real human boy, retroactively making Gabriel rebooting the world a good thing, justifying to the audience why the villain was allowed to win.

Adrien is still a Sentimonster but someone swapped out the Amok rings either during the episode or before it. People are claiming it’s Marinette to shield her from the criticism of her being so reckless with Adrien’s life, but also Félix, the writers’ favorite little plot device, and Lila have been suggested.

I’m gonna say it right now: if Lilerise McButterfly has Adrien’s Amoks, it’s Marinette’s fault, because she obviously knew about the Amoks because of that book of secrets Marinette let her keep in the London special. That’s what you get when your protagonist is only interested in protecting her own secrets, which will have made her reckless with Adrien’s safety twice over (and which is why I hope, hope, hope this isn't the case).

To be perfectly honest, the revelation that the writers are actually planning to milk this “mystery” some more makes me doubt their originality even further that I already did and I’ve been theorizing Astruc is a plagiarist for months.

[yubellia]

Marinette and Adrien HAVE to break up sooner or later.

Season 6 and beyond theory.

——————————————————

To be honest, I don‘t know if this even is a theory or a fact. I think many people agree on this or see it coming.

To make this clear. I don‘t WANT them to break up. I think Marinette and her behavior is questionable at best and from the teaser for season 6 we can assume that she didn’t change. However, the writers made it pretty clear that those two are the endgame. It is ‚fate‘. So there is no reason to fight it. They want this. Are they perfect for each other? Nope. Absolutely not. I just hope the writers do the best they can with these characters.

So why do I think that they HAVE to break up? Even if it’s just for a while? I think you know why.

Because at the end of season 5, their relationship is based on a lie! Marinette knows the truth. And yet, she decided to not tell Adrien about his father! Or the fact, that he is a sentimonster. She knows that too but keeps her mouth shut. Maybe to protect him, maybe because she wants to honor a dead man’s last wish. Who knows! Either way, it’s wrong! In the teaser for season 6 Adrien is still wearing the fashion brand of his father. He does see him as this man who tried to make things right in the end.

But he didn’t. Gabriel lost! Easy as that. Maybe Marinette got through to him but he lost. He abused his own son and considering what he did as hawkmoth or monarch, he is a terrorist. There is no getting around it.

Can you imagine what will happen when Adrien learns about all of this? His entire life will feel like a lie. Not only did he loose his family but his father is a criminal.

The writers HAVE TO clear this up somehow. This plothole is so big, they can‘t ignore this. And I am pretty sure they will clear this up. Why?

…

..

.

Lila. She is the new big bad starting season 6. and she knows everything. When Gabriel turned her into Hoaxer, she used this opportunity to get everything from Nathalie. And if Marinette remembers, she surely remembers. And since she hates Marinette, Ladybug and Adrien too, she will use this sooner or later. We can be sure of that. Otherwise, they would have had no reason to show us how Lila got all this stuff.

So… what will happen once he knows? His trust in Marinette and Ladybug will be shattered. Maybe… just maybe, Marinette can pretend that everything is fine for a while. He will loose his trust in Ladybug but if they didn’t reveal their identities to each other by than, she should be fine. For a while. Because Adrien’s fragile state will make him vulnerable to whatever Lila is planning. If they did reveal their secret to each other by than, Marinette will be done for.

Actually, not just Marinette but Ladybug too. Because she told everyone that Gabriel helped her to stop Monarch. No one will trust her. She will be isolated and for once, Lila doesn’t have to make her look like the bad guy, she WILL BE the bad guy. And remember, Gabriel made a wish to Marinette and another one, the one that brought Nathalie back, to Gimmi. I don‘t think that it was the same wish. Balance and stuff. So by pitying Gabriel, Marinette messed everything up.

I think season 6 will be interesting. At least I hope so. We have to wait a little longer.

[flightfoot]

Feel free to ignore this if you're avoiding anything spoilery or London special speculation...but what do you think about the theory that the time-themed antagonist is an akumatized Adrien, specifically one who got the full truth about Gabe from Marinette, and everything inevitably going wrong will justify her keeping the full truth from him in the end? This doesn't have to be a bad thing, but I'm not sure I trust the writers to treat this with the appropriate level of nuance?

I had actually thought there was a chance that the time-themed antagonist was Adrien, actually, so I'm on board with you there.

Here's the thing: I think there are two antagonists in the trailer. This person:

And this person:

I don't know about you, but those don't look like the same person to me. It's totally possible that they're two different transformations of course, but I think they might well be different people entirely. The first picture I think might be of Lila, but the second... the second is reminiscent of Aspik.

I do think Adrien becoming akumatized in part due to Marinette telling him the truth about Gabriel is possible, though I think that would be a cheap reason, narratively speaking, not to let her tell him the truth. With or without that added lie, Adrien just found out that his father's dead, he should be upset enough to be akumatized regardless. Though I suppose maybe he could throw off the akumatization without the added hit of "also your dad was a supervillain and you're a sentimonster."

I also think it's possible that in this future, Lila figured out that the rings controlled Adrien, grabbed them, and is using them to force Adrien to help her.

[lostuntothisworld]

A List of ML Crack Theories I Am Considering

The moon represents Adrichat, and not the Love Square or LadyNoir like the fandom theorizes

Anne-Jeanne Theoxanne du Bocquale is a time traveling adopted daughter of Lukadrien Adrienette

Bob Roth is gonna make good on his promise that Luka is going to sing for him no matter what.

Adrien's bedroom in the Agreste Mansion was originally the Master Suite

Adrien is going to intern at the Dupain-Cheng bakery. It will not end well.

Luka is going to work for the new flower shop next door, by doing flower deliveries. This will end better because of... reasons.

Felix was created out of jealousy over Gabe and Emilie's conception of Adrien, which means it's possible he doesn't love Kagami for herself or the fact they "are the same," but because Kagami was meant for Adrien.

The ring Felix gave Kagami isn't actually her amok, but an identical copy.

Felix's character arc of villain-to-antihero-to-hero will take another twist. He might even team up with Lilamoth. Either way, his character arc is that he is still being controlled by his father, even though he has his amok, and his father is dead. This will be a direct parallel to Adrien's character arc.

Luka's nightmare (which we never find out in the season 5 finale, oddly enough) is that his actions reveal Ladybug and Chat Noir's identities, Monarque finds out, takes advantage of this and secures the Miraculous and makes his wish... Somehow Luka finds out about Ephemeral, and is horrified that his actions caused the end of the world. He goes to Marinette and she tells him that "the timeline doesn't exist anymore," so he shouldn't feel bad that his actions caused the wish to occur. "Everyone makes mistakes." We as the audience know she is trying to make herself feel better about her choices in the season 5 finale. She begins a word salad about how even Chat Noir flooded the entire planet and nearly destroyed the universe in Chat Blanc, but the timeline no longer exists and it's all okay now! So now both boys know they ended the world in deleted timelines.

The main conflict of season 6 will be the reveal of Ephemeral and Chat Blanc. Season 7 will end in revealing The Truth to Adrien. Season 8 will be about figuring out how to sever Adrien's connection to his amoks, and the Peacock Miraculous.

Luka will be the one to reveal The Truth to Adrichat

Luka will help Adrien sever his connection to his amoks and the Peacock Miraculous. The Miraculous Ladybugs can't bring back a sentimonster after the amok has been destroyed, but Second Chance can give them infinite tries to figure out how to sever the connections.

Human sentimonsters can do and be anything a normally created person can do EXCEPT reproduce. Sentimonsters cannot create life.

The Peacock Miraculous broke because Emilie tried to create two sentimonsters at the same time: Adrien's and his twin sister's embryos. Adrien was created second, and thus the reason the miraculous broke.

Adrien is his own dead twin sister, which is why he has two amoks

Adrien was not his original planned name. He was actually named after his dead twin sister Adrienne, once his parents learned he was connected to both amoks. I'm partial to his original planned name being Celeste, which is a unisex name in France.

Emilie and Amelie (identical twins) are both sentimonsters who share one amok (The moonstone star brooch that Emelie wears)

The actual moon is a sentimonster, and Adrien will time-travel 4 billion years into the past to recreate the Theia Impact in a future season after a long character arc of personal growth, healing, and accepting The Truth. (I'll admit this one is more wishful hoping than anything else lmao)

The light that Lila/Iris saw at the end of the finale is her time traveling future self (I messed up the exact details of how she gets ahold of the Rabbit Miraculous in my original post, but I still think it's plausible)

Ladynoir is dead. Marichat is dead. Ladrien is dead. I think they're going to kill Adrienette sooner rather than later.

Adrien falls in love (or thinks he falls in love) with Marinette due to an amok order by a time traveling Lilamoth. (Adrienette getting together pretty much opened the way for Gabe to get his wish, and thus Lilamoth's acquisition of the Butterfly Miraculous.)

After a rewatch, and studying the transcript, I think there's a possibility Maribug would have kept The Truth from Adrien even if Gabe never asked her to.

Gabe failed his redemption character arc of moving on and letting go of Emilie. Emilie's dying wish was for Gabe to move on, properly parent Adrien, and allow him to choose his own happiness. Instead, Gabe made his own wish in order to be with her in death, abandoning Adrien. But before he did that, he gave Marinette his blessing to be with his son, with stipulations that she never tell him The Truth. I think Gabe ALSO passed on his failed character arc to Marinette. She is going to have to learn to let Adrien go.

AND THE FINAL MOST CRACK OF ALL THEORIES:

25. Lukadrien is Endgame

[arlakos]

Why Time Travel in Miraculous is a huge mess.

There are a lot of things in this show that give me a headache. Plot Holes, Retcons, EVERYTHING involving the Sentimonster Adrien theory that is now apparently true. But nothing gets my blood boiling more than time travel in this show, especially in regards to Chat Blanc and Evolution.

Let me just start out by saying that I think time travel in this show should have never existed to begin with. Not only is the rabbit miraculous a poor excuse for a animal representing time (since alternate dimensions would be a more fitting power given that the miraculous is an Alice in Wonderland reference and the rabbit brings Alice to an alternate world in the story), but having the power to travel to time, while being logically possible, is also a gamebreaking power that leaves more questions than answers.

But the timetravel in Chat Blanc is sooooo bad on many levels. Even Timebreaker, which is a convoluted episode to begin with, at least creates the idea of a stable timeloop with how Alix becomes the rabbit heroine, so nothing that happens breaks any canon to begin with.

But lets take a look at Chat Blanc.

According to canon, Marinette delivers her to gift to Adrien as Ladybug, leading to Adrien learning Ladybug's identity and setting off the many events that lead to Chat Blanc, which also involves the destruction of Paris. This is implied to be the official outcome of Miraculous without any outside interference brought on by time travel.

HOWEVER, Bunnyx herself still somehow exists in the future despite said future not existing, and gets Ladybug to both defeat Chat Blanc and undo the events of the bad future.

Despite Bunnyx having to travel through time however, it is heavily implied that Bunnyx and the Marinette which had to fight Chat Blanc are still part of the same timeline, instead of Marinette and her world being an alternate timeline caused by Bunnyx's interference.

However, neither Bunnyx nor Chat Blanc can coincide with one another due to time rules. If Bunnyx exists, then that means Chat Blanc couldn't have happened as future Alix would have to obtain the rabbit miraculous to begin with. If Chat Blanc was meant to be the canonical outcome to Miraculous (before it was changed), then Bunnyx shouldn't have existed period, meaning the events of Timetagger shouldnt have happened either.

Essentially, its a giant paradox.

However, I think it also gets even worse in Evolution. Aside from the fact that Hawkmoth should have honestly had the heroes defeated dead to rights upon getting the rabbit miraculous, the amount of time travel needed to undo the situation in which Gabriel gets the rabbit miraculous is overtly complex and really just un-needed. It could have easily just been avoided by having Marinette keep the Rabbit Miraculous hidden in a different location to the miracle box, so that nobody could access it from her yoyo (which would be ENTIRELY POSSIBLE given that Marinette made the BATMAN LEVEL CONTINGENCY PLAN IN THE DESTRUCTION EPISODE, yet CAN'T PUT A PASSWORD ON HER YOYO)

With all this explained, I hope anyone who reads this will understand why Time Travel in Miraculous is a giant mess. Aside from time travel only being around due to being a novelty, its inclusion causes many messed in the episodes it appears in, while other episodes could have done well without it.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

You know before the reveal of Feast, I actually had a fanfic-ish theory on what destroyed the order, the peacock and what had Fu so Scared

I initially had this theory of the guardians not only protecting the miraculous from the world but the world from the Kwamis, since there’s so many concepts (propulsion,destruction,action,etc) I thought that some concepts would be too dangerous with the Kwamis acting according their Concept (Plagg is a trouble maker, the tiger is loud, the bee is loyal, etc) so I thought of kwamis which acted on their concept way too much (regeneration regenerating too much which caused things like painful deformations, infection basically creating monster zombies, fortification being walking fortress of destruction, manipulation causing wars out of pure pleasure, etc) and I thought the thing that destroyed the order would be like the opposite of Plagg and Tikki, the two are a eternal loop of balance, of entropy and birth, of light and darkness, creation and destruction. So the bad guy would be the End of said valance

Like a villain similar to the Lich of adventure time which wanted nothing but the destruction of everything, the end of the cycle, the end of everything that is, was and will be. A villain that would mark himself has evil and would keep doing it because that’s he’s nature and doesn’t think he should go against it

I think Fu would have accidentally freed this Kwami of the end but the guardians sacrificed themselves and thousands of miraculouses (because we already have enough heroes) to trap it once again and the reason Fu ran away is because some of the leaking power of the End miraculous freed some minions of the kwami which want the miraculous of creation and Destruction so their master can destroy EVERYTHING

In a show about the miraculous (heck they even come before of ladybug’s and cat noir’s name) I think the most fitting villain would be a miraculous

That would explain why Fu was so scared of losing the Miraculous without pulling up the stupidity of the wish in default ending the world, since losing the miraculous could mean Literally the end of everything

Heck I even made a OC (the minion of the kwami chasing down Fu) which was just “hey what if I make a villain rival for ladybug that doesn’t have disgusting implications of being a minor (a rival that is a adult) so when she’s defeated the audience will cheer instead of being disgusted or sad for seeing a (technical) child being dragged into the depths of HELL” also to explain why the peacock was broken since the miraculous of the end (which rivals the power of creation and destruction together) could 100 break the miraculous, it would make the audience know how dangerous this powers are and would make it look important since the damage he caused started the whole show

Also it would rise the stakes better than Gabriel’s personality making a 180 and the wish having the most bullshit consequences, since the wish would be used to end the world

I even wrote a fanfic of the escaped minion being the reason the Timeline changes in cat blanc to make the world end, so the audience knows how corruptive, destructive, unnatural, evil this kwami is with its first plan including manipulating the minds of kids (Rossi slightly and heavily Lila) to start all the events, manipulate Gabriel to hurt he’s son, make cat Blanc fight ladybug and destroy the world. Lila and chloe are just kids, Gabriel is a broken man, but this thing? This thing and he’s minions are what people B.C. saw that inspired the Devil, Hell and demons

Seriously when I discovered a sentimonster (one the order had designed on their book) was the one who destroyed ALL of the guardians, I felt nothing but disappointment, specially when they don’t explain how the peacock was broken by a mere sentimonster

I expected something grand, something that would make Gabriel see the error of he’s ways with how insignificant he is compared to the forces he was trying to control, but instead I just got a sentimonster…

Am I the one in the wrong? Was I expecting too much? Because even till this day I still feel disappointed, specially by how pathetic and uninteresting Feast was. seriously if you changed Feast and that dragon giant from the Shanghai special, I would be pleased since at least I can see a threatening, smart and powerful monster which scales above Hawkmoth in every way (power, evilness, design, lore) being the one at fault of the destruction of this mighty guardians, but instead they died to a frog!

That was a pretty interesting and detailed backstory, anon. Do you have a link to the fanfic you wrote involving the minion?

You're not wrong to expect more from the backstory of one of this show's characters. I don't think anyone really expected the backstory that kicked off the plot to amount to "The monks who trained me were dicks, I got hungry, so I played God and accidentally wiped out the aforementioned monks with a blue frog."

[princess-of-the-corner]

This is honestly just rambling but, even with as much as the "Practically all the rich kids are actually senti-monsters, Chloe is still on thin ice (this is a joke)" revel is I also feel it's. Not actually good? Not as in bad plot point, just not super thought out for the show. Because does that mean there is literally a SUPER thin line between sentimonster and human? Cause Adrien has been confirmed to age right. And possibly used it as the excuse for why Gabriel suddenly started treating Adrien as more an object (still not a good direction) and like the writing staff wanted all the angst ideas of the sentimonster story line stuff but none of the technicalities with the fact it's a human but was made via magic. I am also bias since I was never as into the theory of sentimonster!Adrien b4 the reveal and not the biggest fan of it now after.

So much potential. So much lost.

Yeah it's.

It's one of those plots that I think would've worked a LOT better if it had been properly thought out and implimented from day 1 instead of scrambling it together half-way through the series.

[ya-boi-haru]

So, ages ago, I made a post saying which miraculous I'd give to Fable Characters and I keep going to review it - especially now that the series is done - and I keep going back and forth or am unsure of some of them, however here are the ones that I'm definitely sure of + a small ramble on each...

Rae has the Ladybug earrings of Creation. It repairs the damage after each fight and also gives you an item that you need to work out how to use in a fight, I think this would fit Rae with how he uses or alters things to use in a given situation. As a bonus, i also believe Tikki would be a great kwami for him, to help give this man some positivity and support.

Athena would get the Ring of the Black Cat. While yes, this may be an obvious choice given that both have destructive abilities, I think the arc they go on with learning how destruction isn't always a bad thing, is a good reason why they would use it responsibly. I headcannon they wouldn't use it a lot at first (amd even that Icarus would take it from them during the Ominous Bane arc) but again after their journey I think they would be a great holder of the ring.

I can also see Athena having the Pig miraculous. The ability to show someone their greatest desire would play well with their positive attitude and how they can comfort others.

Centross would get Goat. The Goats ability allows you to create any non-magical item, I feel like this would be great for him, especially as a fighter. He can use it to his advantage and to level the playing field of most combat he comes to. It'd have been great for the "stuck in the End" arc as he could use it for the various tools he'd need for survival.

I could also concider giving him the Rooster miraculous for the same reasons, but I feel that the Goat would suit him better.

Ulysses would have the Peacock brooch. The Peacock can create 'sentimonsters' for either yourself or others and they fight for and/or protect you. I feel like I don't need to elaborate, but I will point out that there's a kind of similarity of how Argos sees the sentimonsters as living creatures and understands that they're alive and you can easily manipulate/control them and even end their existence with a literal snap of your fingers vs how Ulysses viewed and learned that the experiments (Aax) are actually living people/creatures. This similarity and understanding is why I think Ulysses would be a great Peacock holder.

Will would get the Bull miraculous. The Bull allows you to be invulnerable to others' attacks. This mainly plays in with his mask (at least it's my theory that it was mainly the mask protecting him) and as someone who wouldn't choose violence I think its good for him to have an extra protection on himself.

That's all the ones I definitely have for now... thoughts? Opinions?

I'd also concdier giving the Turtle miraculous to Will if I wasn't going to give it to Arisanna. The Turtle miraculous is a protection miraculous amd with how they are protective of the Allays and, later, people in her life I think this would be a good one for her. Since the 'Shellter' ability also acts as a type of cage, you could say she abuses this power during her vexed arc.

Edit: I forgot to add: *no one* is getting the Rabbit miraculous, no way I'm giving time travel abilities to one of them. Instead I think itd be neat if the Rabbit miraculous were to take place of As It Is. You'd reset the timeline by messing with it and you can say that Hayley used it and that's how she got to be "the village crazy lady"

More later?

If I think up more I might do a ramble post or I've always wanted to do a video like this, I don't know... but tha k you for coming to my TED talk

[saveme-storybrooke-potc]

Debunking the debunkers???

So whenever there is a new fan theory in miraculous that split the fandom in the middle, I like to play devil advocate and side with what the fans don't like. (just like the adrien is a sentimonster theory. look at where we are now)

sadly there are not many Lila is Manon from the future theory videos on youtube (most are just people calling the thoery and people who believe it stupid). Here is why your points are stupid.

1 - "How can you say Lila is from the future and she can't even tell what is going to happen to her"

well that's simple, LILA is not supposed to be in the present, but she brought herself to it. so she is altering timelines, the stuff that she is going to know that will happen to her is whatever is going to happen to Manon. NOT Lila. She would not be having a "second chance" at life and knowing that Gabe would kick her out of alliance, or not be invited to the ball, or be exposed by Marinette because it didn't happen and it wasn't supposed to happen because she is from the future. Remember the fact that Marinette is Manon's babysitter in this time period that Lila travelled to, so she would be many years younger than Marinette and Adrien and we wouldn't know what would have happened to Gabe in the future. So your point is debunked.

also the only times Bunnix ever messed with time was when the world was going to end or did end because of something Marinette did, she refused to let Marinette go back in time and fix her mistakes with losing the miraculous' or losing the Butterfly miraculous. She didn't even tell her who the new holder was.

2 - "Chris referred to the new hawkmoth as the woman he loves... but it's actually Lila and not Manon"

Yes we see that Lila interacted with Chris and that he did have a crush on her. But also that quote about Chris being in love with the new Hawkmoth is a "deleted scene" (allegedly) however the possibility of Chris being in love with Manon is still there. which people believe alludes to some sort of time travel between the two because (1) they were both fighting over the rabbit Kwami (Trixx?) which Chris becomes Time-Tagger and again, if Manon did time travel she could have used time tagger and also be Lila from the future. We don't know if he really is WAY older than Chris in adult Ladybug and Chat Noir's present (also that would be very weird to have a teenager pinning over some grown woman, unless it IS Manon)

3 - "She has the pictures of Nadja because she wants to use bad publicity to take revenge on Gabe"

first of all LIE-LA she was always known to manipulate people by saying the most outlandish lies. If she wanted to she would have already told Nadja about Gabe being Hawkmoth and everyone would have believed it. Nadja is very out of place on the board and the only thing that doesn't make sense is why she is only shown to be connected to Adrien and their teacher and not Marinette. But for Lila to have her on the board for the bad press is NOT it, because she could have ruined Gabe with or without Nadja.

3 - "Lila looks like her "other mothers" (the woman she is lying to) and Kagami looks like Sabine so it doesn't make sense"

First of all, I can't explain to you why Lila's other disguises looks like her other moms when she only used her Lila look. it doesn't make sense, but Cerise LOOKS LIKE Nadja. Also the writers are kinda racist, they make all the asian or mixed asian characters the same with that blue/black hair. and the point with Kagami was that she was supposed to kinda look like Marinette because Adrien didn't realise at the time that he actually did like Marinette. But the excuse of "we don't know what Lila actually looks like, Cerise could be fake too" is weak if you're using it to attempt at debunking a fun theory.

4 - "Manon wasn't the one manipulating people it was her akumatized version"

but it's the fact that all of Lila and Manon's akumatized versions have the "manipulating people" aspect. Also Lila using her (shitty) lying abilities to getting what she wants, and Manon uses her childlike innocence to try and get what she wants. But they both always fail because of Marinette.

5 - You can't deny the flowers on her design it's not stupid

common costuming is very important. designs are very important. do you not know what Marinette and Adrien's designs are? it's their colours inverted. LITERALLY from their hair to their shoes. It's not just the one flower on Manon's overalls that is Lila's name. It's THREE flowers, one for each name.

6 - "Manon loved Marinette, why would she grow up and start fighting with Marinette"

again, you're missing the point. (1) Manon is a child when we see her "present self" so she will be different, she will be more innocent, she will love Marinette. (I wouldn't say she was rooting for adrienette). But we don't know what happens in between this (yet) we don't know if Marinette upsets her. Marinette already ignores Manon A LOT for Adrien, especially when she's supposed to be responsible for her. She's always dumping her off to be someone else's problem. So yes, there can be a resentment towards that. Yes when Manon grows up she can dislike Marinette and travel back in time and sabotage things or at least try to. Sometimes your greatest enemies are someone you once loved or cared for.

6 (b) - "the theory says her and chris are in love, how can that be if she is trying to date adrien"

do you not know how girls who don't get enough attention or love at home act like? do you not see how Nadja being busy could affect Manon, do you not see how Marinette always ditching her for Adrien could affect Manon? Also a revenge plot is a revenge plot, you don't care who you're hurting. We literally see from Gabe how his wife was dead yet he still had a thing for Natalie, while also tormenting the people of Paris for his wife. We also don't necessarily know if Chris and the Hawkmoth(/Manon/Lila) of the future are actually dating, he could just be obsessed over her. So it's still not a stretch that she would hurt Marinette by flirting with Adrien. AGAIN she was not and Adrienette shipper.

7 - "If Lila was really Manon why would she disrespect her mother"

uh because she is in her villain arch? because she is in the past? BECAUSE NADJA DOESN'T KNOW THAT'S HER CHILD?! you also contradicted yourself by saying that Nadja was busy but had time for Manon but then went to saying that Nadja was too busy that she wouldn't even have the time to pay attention to Lila/Manon scheming. So which one is it? I also feel like us seeing the first woman that Lila uses as her mother kinda foreshadows that maybe Lila really does have a mother who has no time for her. Clearly she keeps finding them, it's her comfort. it's like Nadja.

8 - "The only reason the show makes the theory canon is because of how popular it is"

this is not Adrien is not a real boy level theory. I have not heard of this until like two days ago. so we don't know what will happen with this theory.

other honorable mentions

Manon being introduced in the pilot episode could be foreshadowing the fact that she will be the next person to fight Marinette/Ladybug

"Manon can't be Lila because in Simpleman she was helping Ladybug and Chat Noir" - yes because she was a child at the time and she was with her friends and she (at the time) wanted Ladybug to win. You people really don't realise how people change. Look at Chloe, bully to good to bully again. Look at Felix, spoiled brat and creep to antagonist to hero(?)

Lila's photoshoot with Adrien mirrors Manon's photoshoot with Adrien

Lila is recruiting the kids. She's always seen at one point babysitting the younger siblings of Nino and Alya, (and I think Manon too) why? because she needs to start building her army. again, she can still be Manon.

we were already told that we were shown Lila's motive awhile back we just weren't paying attention to it. it could have even been shown with Manon.

Smarty Pants' whole rant about using the Manon/Lila theory and making it about Jesus Christ (which made me uncomfortable) and used the example of how Manon is another name for Marie or Mary and only talked about the "wished for child" but completely glossed over the "rebellious" and "bitter" definitions. so it only adds on to my point, Manon is bitter about something

I'm finding the reason a lot of people who HATE this theory hate it because Manon is a child and they are probably uncomfortable with the idea. and I only think this because of how passionately a lot of people speak towards Manon and the language they use towards the people who talk about the theory and the theory itself.

[kaileedraws]

Is Adrien a senti ?

To be honest?? I’m not sure yet. Part of me wants to keep the base lore that he (and Felix) probably are created by the peacock miraculous, but I don’t want them to be like the sentimonsters in this AU. They’re far too complex individuals.

Like I’ve said before, I kinda hate the peacock miraculous’ powers and how it borders creation - which is just Ladybug’s powers. But I also like the duality of Adrien realizing he killed his mom by being born and why it’s so hard for him to identify love. I just dislike that being a sentimonster would kind of block out the idea that his behavior is a trauma response and not just because he’s forced to be a certain way. And it’s way too similar to Felix’s backstory.

I want Felix and Adrien’s origins to be different. If Adrien was created by the Peacock, here’s how it would have to work:

Emillie is wearing the peacock miraculous, still unsure how exactly it works. She wants a child so desperately, so strongly, that inadvertently, in a fit of hopeless desperation, she willed Duusu(1) to use her powers to help her conceive a child. Unable to resist the pull Emillie had, and with the power of her desire for fertility, Duusu and Emillie created an egg inside of her(2). Emillie didn’t know what she had done until she became pregnant. Did she conceive naturally or did she create what was inside of her? If she created it, where was the amuk?

She didn’t realize it, but her actions caused a small crack to appear on the miraculous. (3)

For Felix’s creation, the story would follow the same rules. His father, learning the theory about how Emillie was able to become pregnant, and wanted to try it for himself. Like Emillie, he tried to will Duusu to grant him a child, but his desire was different than hers(4). He didn’t desire to have a child, he wanted a heir - a trophy. The creation of this child was different than with Emillie. It was bred upon jealousy— a jealousy this child would carry with him about the Agrestes for a reason unknown to him. But he was still part human- it was just the other part of him that held an uncontrollable desire for blood.(5)

With this second child, the Miraculous broke a little bit more — stealing the price to pay for the children that they wanted. A body for a body, soul for a soul.

(1) We have seen previously that Gabriel can take Nuuroo’s ability to speak away and permit him to leave his side — theorizing that if her will is strong enough, Emillie and Duusu can use Duusu’s crazed ability and use the miraculous for something that it’s not supposed to be used for— creation

(2) A human egg to be fertilized — thus why Adrien would only be part-sentimonster but a real boy with real trauma responses

(3) This would explain why Emillie and Colt died so slowly — because now that the miraculous is fully broken, it affects Nathalie a little bit more (plus the fact that she uses it multiple times)

(4) Emilie’s child was borne from love, and Amillie’s - jealousy. These boys would be only part sentimonster — but this part of them would feed into their thoughts and emotions. For Adrien, he would always regard people adoration, no matter how they treated him; he thought people were inherently good. For Felix, he would learn that he hated his cousin’s family; and that the people were inherently bad.

(5) to answer your question, I think that if they are Sentimonsters, they would only be half. Sort of like being psychotic and having a second voice in your head telling you things. You can choose to ignore it, or give into the urges. Felix would have to fight with homicidal/hate-filled ideations because of this, and Adrien would have to learn how to know what true love is and what is simply adoration — I think this fits with their behaviors in the show right?

Also, dancing around the idea that Felix kills his dad on his death bed. He definitely deserves it

Now that I’ve written it, I actually really like the idea that I just came up with — lil mutant babies with lil psychotic voices in their heads. Thoughts?

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Sentimonsters Vs Tropes

It's no secret that I hate the fact that Adrien is a sentimonster, but I figured I'd take a minute to clearly explain why it bothers me so much because I don't think that I've done that and I should. There's obviously the issue that he will never have true free will and that's deeply upsetting, but my dislike of this theory came long before canon made that issue clear, further fueling my hatred. My baseline dislike is routed in the heart of the theory and the tropes it's brushing up against.

There are two standard tropes that you usually see with something like the sentiplot. The first trope is the humanization of the outsider and the second is the questioning of what it means to be a valid living creature. Let's quickly define both of these.

Humanization of the Outsider

This trope takes some external group and presents them as bad. They are the irredeemable enemy who must be stopped at all costs, the lesser race who are fit to be nothing more than slaves, or some other inherent disparity that's just a base part of this world. Whatever the setup, the story then introduces a member of this external group as a key character in the story and somehow creates a connection between that character and the "good" guys. Through that connection, we come to learn that this individual is, in fact, not inherently lesser or bad or what-have-you. They are just as valid as the "good" guys. From there, we are forced to reassess our assumptions about every member of the external group. If this one individual isn't what we thought, then are any of them? For a well-known example of this, think Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon.

The point of this trope is to make people question the way they view others. To suggest that maybe you're viewing a situation through biased eyes. Is any group inherently bad/lesser or do you just not know the whole story? What have you been taught and why?

What Makes You Worthy of Life?

This trope is basically the inversion of the humanization trope. Instead of focusing on how we view others, it focuses on how we view ourselves. It says that you're valid no matter where you come from or who your parents are. That you are not defined by others or arbitrary catagories. For a well-known example of this, think of that Mewtwo line that people love to quote:

“I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.” ― Pokemon, The First Movie: Mewtwo Strikes Back!

Combo Attack & Variations

Before we circle back to Miraculous, it's worth noting that these two tropes are often used in tandem. A non-human or outsider may question if they're valid and, though that struggle, teach others in-universe to question their prejudice. You can also have variations such as the non-human or outsider viewing themselves as totally valid without being part of a larger group, leading to the type of discussion that you'd expect in the humanization trope even thought, setup wise, it's more in line with the validity trope. Star Trek: The Next Generation has several episodes about this one, mostly focused around the character Data. Heck, Stark Trek hits every one of these tropes at one point or another because they're incredibly standard Sci-Fi tropes. A large amount of Sci-Fi is all about philosophical questions! This brings us back to Miraculous.

Dunking on Miraculous

When you use a standard setup like the introduction of a non-human who is supposed to be seen as human, you are joining a vast canon of literature that discusses this topic, adding your voice to thousands of others, making your statement on humanity and personal worth. Or, at least, that's what I expect to see when you introduce this type of setup. The problem with Miraculous is that it doesn't add to those conversations. There is no discussion of Adrien's worth or the worth of any other sentimonster. If anything, Miraculous has so far spat in the face of these tropes. To show you what I mean, let's look at what canon has given us from two directions.

Direction One: What makes a sentimonster valid?

Their creator. Adrien was made to live like a human and so we must treat him as one. If a sentimonster wasn't made to be equal to humans? Then no worries, go ahead and destroy them! They don't matter because their creator - aka their parent - decided that they're worthless. The circumstances of their birth define their fundamental right to exist.

Direction Two: What did finding out about their sentistatus do to Felix and Kagami's perception of their own self worth? Does finding out a sentikids' sentiness status change how others see them?

Canon seems to have no interest in even acknowledging that someone might ask these questions. Felix has known what he is for years, but doesn't seem to have any hangups about it. He wants to ensure his freedom, but that's not unique to sentimonsters or saying something about his self worth. Once he has his ring and the peacock, his lack of true free will and the whole remote-self-destruct issue don't seem to bother him. You could replace his status with any sort of magical control and get the same plot because the plot is about acquiring macguffins and nothing else.

Even Colt's abuse is only used to make Felix a sad little uwu who can't be held accountable for anything and not as a setup to Felix questioning his worth. We see Felix called "monster," but Felix has not been shown to have taken that insult to heart. He doesn't view himself as a monster. We don't even learn about the monster insult until Felix is "good." The most I can say is that there is a vague sense that Felix probably views humans as lesser, but it's hard to be sure about that based on the actual text of the show even if the word of god is that Ladybug made Felix trust humans. So that's a bust on Felix addressing this issue even though he's the best character to do it. What about everyone else?

Kagami seems to learn the truth in the middle of season five and she's totally fine. Not really human? Not a problem! Her love life is far more worthy of attention. Make her a human who falls in love with a sentimonster and, once again, nothing changes.

Marinette is implied to learn the truth during Felix's play and has no reaction. The fact that she's Miraculous Ladybugged away sentimonsters and even tossed a few in the sun doesn't appear to even cross her mind. The only impact this has on her is that she now has more secrets to keep from Adrien. Her view of him, Kagami, and Felix has not changed.

We don't even get Nathalie or Gabriel reacting to the idea of destroying sentimonster! For fifteen years, the only sentimonsters they've dealt with are Adrien, Kagami, and Felix. They appear to see these three as real human children and yet they have no problem switching to using other sentimonsters as canon fodder. If anyone should have reacted strongly to the death of sentibug, it's Gabriel because Nathalie is wielding the power to poof away his son and she just showed a total lack of regard for what is supposedly a fourth valid sentimonster, but we get nothing.

Given all these tepid non-reactions, I guess that the audience is not supposed to care about the fact that Adrien was the only character with no hopes or dreams in Wishmaker. That meant nothing about his worth or psychology! It was just a bit of fun foreshadowing! He's a real boy because his mommy and the writers said so. No greater discussion is needed.

What's the show's actual message then?

Now, do I think that Miraculous was trying to give us baby's first eugenics lesson? No. Absolutely not! This is, at best, incredibly clumsy writing that is trying and failing to tell a moral that I truly can't figure out. At worst, the sentiplot shows us that the writers have a fundamental lack of curiosity. A complete disinterest in using their massive platform to say something of value. They are here to shock audiences with poorly setup twists and nothing else. Whichever path you pick, it's not a good look.

I truly love these tropes and grew up consuming media that played with them. They have positively shaped how I view the world. That's why I find Miraculous' handling of this topic so incredibly depressing and upsetting. The problem is not that Adrien is a sentimonster. It's that he was made into one - robbed of his freedom and humanity - for nothing more than shock value. It's that other, "lesser" sentimonsters are being treated as disposable by one of their own kind. It's that there is no greater lesson here or, if there is, then it's going to be told in a way that completely fails to connect with the audience due to the show's terrible pacing and inability to use the type of focus you need to tell a coherent arc.

These are the writers who had Adrien give the high road advice at the beginning of season three and then didn't revisit that issue until the end of season five without so much as a flashback to remind viewers what the heck he was talking about. Rare is the viewer who can follow that plot and I don't expect the sentiplot to be any better assuming that there even is going to be a plot. If there is, then I already hate it! I don't want Miraculous discussing hard topics with superfans and no one else. I want it having those discussions in a way that the intended audience can follow. If it can't do that, then it never should have tread on such morally complex ground.