#but that would mean that this fandom needs to know how to read and analyze characters

[mxtxfanatic]

saw your tags about your sympathy for lxc waning... would you happen to have any fics that criticize him? 🫣👀

I don’t, sorry 😭 On top of me not being into mdzs fics anymore, I don’t hate Lan Xichen as a character enough to go out of my way to find fics that criticize him, and almost every fic that I’ve read that criticizes him does so based on shit the fic writer made up to be mad about, not based on canon things that I personally dislike about him.

[nagaytoe]

THE KID AT THE BACK

-theories

Did i sit down and analyze this game for 3 hours straight because I'm hyperfixated on it? Yes, yes i did.

This isnt proof-read and long as hell so buckle up for a joyride, y'all (by the way, there's another TKATB fanfic in the works as we speak and also some fanart, though I'm not sure wether to post it or not... well, we'll see!)

Some of these might not seem all too thought through (??) Since i was kind of grasping at straws here (and it was like 2 a.m. lmao), so if y'all have questions/need me to elaborate or have theories of your own feel free to share!

(There's some inspiration here from other people in the Fandom, most of them from the community section on itch.io which isnt available any more)

Sol knows the player longer than we think

My theory ->

-Fantasia stated that one of her 3 biggest inspirations was the game AMNESIA

-In amnesia the mc loses her memory in an accident. One of the love interests is her childhood friend and also the only yandere in the game (at least from what i could find out)

-She already drew Sol with Forget-me-nots and in the valentines day special the boquet sol gave us also contained Forget-me-nots

-In the book (this gallery thing with all the cutscene images) on the top of sols page is written 'Remember Me' which implies we forgot about him

-Annabel Lee Poem:

+The poem contains the line 'I was a child, she was a child' which furthermore implies that Sol and MC knew each other as kids

+Except for the last two paragraphs the poem is written in past tense, which could be talking about sols POV with us

Perhaps MC had an accident, as mentioned above, and MCs father (highborn kinsmen) tore MC away from Sol to the countryside

+The poem mentions angels killing annabel lee which could also mean something like this: MC doesnt die but, however, gets amnesia. That way, the MC sol knows and loves is dead because MC no longer exists the way MC did before (also the fact that she forgot him)

Some people theorize MCs farm is near the sea and that is the reason why sol hates the sea (i believe the city is near the sea and that's where MC 'died' (maybe MC almost drowned and got Amnesia that way?(apparently its possible for people who almost drowned to get amnesia)))

+"The speaker loves annabel lee to the point of death and even after death" (MCs view how to interpret the poem) (-> Sol loves MC to 'death' (the day they got amnesia) and even after 'death' (after MC got amnesia and 'died' in a sense, as a person))

-sol says he thinks death is beautiful, i didn't really know what to make of that, the only conclusion i came to would be: If MC actually did drown and lose their memories due to that, sol might have been involved in MC drowning (or at least blames himself for that) but viewed MC losing their memories as a 'second chance' with them, since they can start from anew (perhaps he made some mistakes with MC in the past which all eventually built up to MC drowning (it could be that we were already teens at that point)

-sol states afterwards: "But people refused them to let them be together, as if fate refuses them to die together" which supports my theory that MC was taken from Sol by someone (most likely the father after he witnessed Sols behaviour and his final straw was MC drowning because of him) the 'let them die together' could mean something like their relationship 'dying' and then starting over again or perhaps he tried to die with them, who knows (all this is really far fetched i am grasping at straws here lmao)

-in a really quick scene right after he mutters "I'm won't let it happen to me... not again" (some people view this as Sol already lost someone he loved dearly but it could also be the MC who was taken from him

ANOTHER THING I COULD IMAGINE -ABOUT DYING TOGETHER COULD BE:

MC almost died, Sol went after them but they were already saved, Sol just didnt witness that and almost died himself/wanted to die but was saved from that by someone (maybe hyugo? Though, he is an exchange student)

-Another theory on hyugo. It's canon that he is an exchange student, however i do believe he is from this city (since he knows about the hierarchy and his brother Geo apparently is no exchange student), moved away and is now back for business (relating to his 'mafia schemes' but under the disguise of being an exchange student)

Maybe he moved around the same time MC left or some time after that

-Hyugo mentions on the rooftop that we remind him of someone and the pronoun of the person he refers to changes based on the one the player picked for the MC in the beginning. It could mean we remind him of someone else entirely, someone maybe not even related to sol (though i doubt that) or to the MC and he knows them from back then but maybe thought MC died as well and cant believe they actually survived (maybe he want to spike MCs memory by doing that)

-A dream within a dream: MC mentions that this poem, at least to them, talks about the uncertainty about something, like life (which could also imply that they might be uncertain about some things in their mife because they simply forgot them due to amnesia)

-THE SECOND DAY 'THE KINGDOM'

+some people think the kingdom (by the sea) refers to MCs farm and implies its near the sea, however in day 2 we find out about the hierarchy in the city and considering my theory that MC actually is from the city and almost drowned there, i believe the kingdom by the sea is the city. MC does mention in the beginning that they lived on the farm ever since they were a child, however, it could very well be that we moved there right after the incident that caused MCs amnesia (if MC was akid when it happened it would really matter because then it would still fit with the fact that they lived there since theyre a child, however if they were already a teen, perhaps the father moved there immediately to cut off all ties to Sol and told us we have always lived there on top of that (considering the previous theories)

The father also didnt seem fond of the idea that we go to the city (the fact that he is is indebted to someone from high class could imply he might be from there), that could be because he knows how dangerous the city is (and how we could potentially meet sol again)

-maybe the reason for the debt is that MCs father suddenly bought the farm land to get us away from the city as soon as possible and had to take on a loan from one of his contacts in the city

-we know that this is MCs last year at the university, if we say shes minimum 22, and was already in the school for 4 years that would mean she got there at 18. If the 'drowning theory' events took place when MC was a teen (like 16 maybe) it would explain why the father was indebted (i also think 2 years is an believable timeframe a higher class person would give someone to pay off their debt)

-at the end of day 2 sol says he's sorry for leaving us and "i dont know what I'll do if..." which supports my theory that he lost us once (and he blames himself as the reason (again, MC drowning?))

-inspirations:

+ https://www.tumblr.com/sweet-herbal-peach-tea/746168072919023616/tkatb-theories?source=share

+ https://itch.io/t/3749638/whats-the-secret-between-hyugo-and-sol

Another theory:

Sleepy Hollow and The kid at the back

-In the nicknames the boys have for MC (fantasia released that on twitter and tumblr) sol calls MC pumpkin (like the pumpkin of the headless horseman (also in the gallery there is a pumpkin above the book)) and Crowe calls them '(star-crossed) lover'

Star-crossed lovers are people who love each other but can't be together

I believe this might imply that, even though Crowe is the second romance option, MC can't be with him no matter what they do

I also found out that the nickname is a phrase from romeo and juliet (which furthermore implies crowe will die)

We know what romeo and juliet is about: romeo and juliet cant be together because their families are enemies (some people believe Crowes father might be them man MCs father owes money to(i personally doubt thah though but it would support this romeo and juliet situation)) and at the end romeo thinks that juliet died, kills himself and then juliet turns out to not be dead but kills herself after seeing romeo dead

-Jericho Ichabod is a character from Sleepy Hollow, along Katrina (the FMC who owns a farm (what a coincidence)) and Brom Bones (its implied he is the headless horseman). In the story, jericho courts Katrina at a party, she rejects him and on his way home the headless horseman kills him (in the scene where Sol accompanies MC to class he says 'it's always been you ichabod' which could furthermore imply that crowe or his family have something do to with the fact that Sol and MC arent together)

In the library scene with Crowe he asks MC about their opinion on marie Antoinette and when MC says something negative about her, his reaction seems kind of strange. MC also brought a book about torture devices and execution methods and in that book is a picture of 'The Executioner' and he has scars on his arms, wears a mask and a chained collar. This correlates with some of sols features. He has scars on his arms (as seen in one of fantasias drawings), wears a chocker (he also wears a mask when he breaks into MCs room but that's really something anyone who does that would do). This implies even more that he will kill crowe.

[picaroroboto]

For the past couple days, I've been unfortunately cursed with thinking about Zenos yae Galvus. I don't even particularly like him - not that I dislike him either, Zenosfuckers you can put your scythes down - but it seems to me like a lot of the fandom either greatly misunderstands him, or doesn't even care to try to understand him, which from an objective standpoint as someone who cares deeply about writing in video games kind of pisses me off. But I'm more pissed about the fact that I'm apparently going to keep thinking about this issue until I actually write a character analysis of him.

Q: "But, what even is there to analyze with him? Isn't he all about wanting to fight the WoL and nothing else?"

Well, you wouldn't be wrong with saying that. That motivation is at the forefront of his character, and even if you look closer, everything about him comes back to either "violence" or "lack of understanding of others". But there are more meaningful sides to his deceptively simple character. That question of meaning is what I really want to look into - what does his character mean, what symbolic or thematic role does he play in this story?

Q: "Better question: why are you posting this on your art blog/Fate meta sideblog?"

Good question, with a stupid answer: I have all of 6 followers on my FF14 sideblog, and around 150 here. Let's go under the cut so they don't have to read a wall of text, unless they want to.

When you look at and compare FF14's villains, you can see a very clear change, no doubts thanks to the change in main writers. ARR Gaius and Thordan are more or less two-bit villains - Gaius's memeable iconic Praetorium speech gives us insight into how fascists try to justify themselves but little into Gaius's actual personality, while all Thordan gets as far as depth of character is an NPC in a sidequest remarking that he wasn't always a bad person and was probably doing what he thought best for his nation. Nidhogg is a little more understandable, since revenge is a relatable motivation to anyone who's been hurt by others. In Stormblood, Zenos and Yotsuyu are both presented as deserving of pity even as they do terrible things. Come Shadowbringers and Endwalker though, the story takes a greater interest on why villains like Emet-Selch and Elidibus do the things they do, and the player is allowed more options to try to understand them and see how similar they are to the WoL. Hell, Hermes and the Endsinger are barely "villains" at all, with the level of sympathy the story shows them.

What I'm getting to here is that Zenos, with half his arc in Stormblood and the rest in Endwalker, is sort of caught in the middle of this shift. He played the role of the rival character in Stormblood really well, but come Endwalker, he's standing on a stage full of heroes and villains with grand causes and deep motivations, as the guy whose sole motivation is fighting for pleasure.

It seems he's not unaware of this contrast himself - when Jullus confronts him for ruining Garlemald for no good reason, he retorts with "Would you be happier had I a good reason?" Zenos makes no attempt to justify his own actions and doesn't care that his reason seems incomprehensible and unforgivable to others. Yet in that same cutscene Alisaie hits him with the fact that if he keeps living solely for pleasure, he'll die alone. When next we see Zenos, he's alone at the Royal Menagerie waxing philosophical about what he really sought in the battle with the WoL.

See, what really motivates Zenos isn't just the thrill of battle - this guy has gotten Battle High and the joy of human connection confused. Really.

Even before he gets so perturbed by the idea of dying alone, there's other suggestions, like his proposal of friendship to the WoL when they fought in Stormblood, and then later his dying words in which he explains that he never understood others - at his core, he's just lonely. I know there's an official side story that tells it, but you don't need to know the exact details to glean that he had some sort of tragic backstory. Sad, but not a surprise, considering he's the prince of the Garlean Empire, raised to take the throne and continue the Empire's legacy of violence.

At his core, he's a very lonely person, but also a thing of violence, raised using violent methods for the purpose of causing more violence. Violence is how he lives and breathes - the only way he gets any sort of connection with others in a world of hurting and being hurt is the brief connection warriors dueling as equals can sometimes find. Don't deny that this sort of connection exists - FF14 is great at making fights that are both fun and tell a story. Hence, why he goes crazy for the WoL, but also refers to them as "friend". In their fights, he senses (or thinks he senses) similarity between him and them. Beneath all the madness is a pure, genuine joy in seeing the self reflected in the other...but he also instantly gets on the train to projection-town, population Zenos, and assumes the WoL is exactly like him, ignoring or failing to notice that they also fight for deeper meanings. The worst part is, he doesn't even notice that what he's actually seeking in fighting them is connection until Alisaie's aforementioned callout.

So he goes and angsts for a while, then turns into a dragon again and flies across the universe to help us kick the Endsinger's tail feathers, then issues his challenge for that duel he'd been longing for. But what's changed is that he starts with a question - "Such pleasures you sought for their own sake, and for no other reason, is that not so?". Dying after the duel, he's full of questions too: "Was your life a gift or a burden? Did you find fulfillment?" Alisaie's suggestion that he'd die alone actually spurred him to realize what he actually sought in the WoL, and now he's asking all these questions in an attempt to, for the first time in his life, genuinely connect with another human being.

The questions aren't important just because they're a sign of how Zenos has changed in Endwalker - they're actually the thematic heart of Endwalker! ARR may have had "Answers" as it's theme, but EW is the expac of questions. Namely the biggest question of all: What is the meaning of life? Different characters have different answers to that, leading to the grand-scale symbolic conflict being the Endsinger's despair - her belief that there is no meaning in life - versus whatever reasons the WoL chooses to live for, left, as always, up to player interpretation.

When you look deeper, Zenos isn't actually as out-of-place in the symbolic conflict as he first seems. His depressed worldview - that metaphor about drowning in a swamp again - seems to align with the Endsinger's view about life being meaningless. But he aids the WoL in defeating her. In that way he serves as part of the answer to her question about the meaning of life. He may have resented life at times, but he still found meaning in chasing pleasure. Not the strongest or most beautiful reason to deny oblivion, perhaps, but it did enable him to help the WoL triumph. I think of Zenos's philosophy as being connected to the concept of "Amor Fati"...largely because this quote explaining it sounds like something he'd say, or at least agree with on some level:

"and if our soul has trembled with happiness and sounded like a harp string just once, all eternity was needed to produce this one event—and in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed."

So he does have a meaningful role in Endwalker, as the "Amor Fati" against the Endsinger's "Memento Mori". I think that in this the story shows that his reason for living, while somewhat shallow, is not necessarily a morally wrong thing in and of itself (setting aside for a second all the people he hurt in his pursuit of that). It's just that, since it is a lonely pursuit that denies everything except for his target, it still feels empty. The core of the counterargument against the Endsinger's despair is that both pleasure and fulfillment are necessary to live a meaningful life in a meaningless universe, and that's why Zenos is here in Endwalker. Why he even exists in the story in the first place.

Even if you're one of the people who deeply hates Zenos...well, you probably wouldn't have read this whole thing if you did, but I still think it's important to read into characters you dislike, because every character in a story is written for a reason. Plus, trying to understand even their worst enemies is one of the WoL's key traits as of ShB and EW. With his last breaths, Zenos was trying to understand the WoL too - carrying this understanding of him with you as we move into our next adventures is the least you can do for your "friend".

[jesncin]

A Failure of Asian Lois Lane: Pt 2: My Adventures with Superman, an honest discussion

If I had to pinpoint the fundamental problem with My Adventures with Superman's depiction of Asian Lois Lane it's in their attempt to subvert the classic two person love triangle: Lois loves Superman but is indifferent to Clark Kent. In MAWS, Lois insta-crushes on Clark Kent and hates Superman. In the show's attempt to make sense of this dynamic, Lois' Asian identity becomes at odds with a story meant to touch on xenophobia and immigrant themes.

Let's have an honest discussion about a show that made fandom cheer as an Asian character removed the one thing that made her most visibly Asian.

Disclaimer: While I am of East Asian descent, I am not Korean. I'll be discussing general Asian diasporic experiences but the specifics of Korean culture are outside of my knowledge (as usual I can't and don't speak for every Asian person ever, I am 1 opinion). Secondly, I'll be pulling from my personal experiences every now and then particularly pertaining to being a butch Asian person watching this show. It'll be a mix of formal analysis and personal anecdotes. Thirdly, this isn't an exhaustive analysis of MAWS Lois' character. We'll be sticking to what I consider is relevant to themes of Asian identity and immigration. Lastly once more, I do not believe the MAWS crew had malicious intent in any (of what I consider) poor writing decisions. We're here to analyze and challenge these writing decisions.

Please read Pt 1 of Asian Lois analysis that covers the comics, as it provides the groundwork for the ideas expanded on in this essay.

We need to talk about Lois' design. In the follow up to MAWS' release, people have been speculating on Lois' ethnicity. CBR writes that the show has "some fans believing that she's at least part Asian" and other articles have the show crew confirm Lois Korean heritage via her hanbok outfit in episode 4. The existence of these articles, my own anecdotal experience of streaming MAWS with Asian friends, and comments I receive from people asserting Lois' Asian identity was never explored in the show ("you'd only know she was Asian if you searched up articles about it"), tells me we have a case of an ambiguously designed Asian woman. Tangentially many people had no idea Livewire, the white haired and blue eyed woman, was meant to be South Asian.

There's a lot to be said about art styles that don't properly stylize ethnic features, but for the purposes of our analysis that means the writing has to deliver the heavy lifting where the design fails. This is the opposite case of American Alien: a comic that relied on the art to portray Asian Lois.

Let's start at episode 3. In it, Lois finally manages to conduct a private interview with the elusive Superman. When she asks where Superman comes from, how his powers work, etc- Superman comes up empty. In this version, Superman can't talk to his Kryptonian father (Jor-El)'s hologram because of a language barrier, so he knows very little about his alien heritage. He leaves Lois, assuring her he's here to help the people of Metropolis. When Clark Kent congratulates her for interviewing Superman, Lois rebuffs him. "Oh, he's [Superman's] a liar." smirking as she says it. This is the start of the Lois Hates Superman For Being a Liar arc.

I'd like you to consider the optics of an Asian American woman interviewing an alien immigrant who honestly told her he doesn't know where he comes from and is still figuring out who he is, only for her to think he's lying. Because she didn't get the answers she wanted. I can't help but think about my own experiences, where I was asked "but where do you really come from?" or "okay but what's your real name?" I think of my Asian American peers who would honestly say they're from Texas or Atlanta and get a vindictive "you're lying" as a response. People want to hear you're from China. They want their biases confirmed. I think about how I honestly can't tell you where my elders hailed from, because of cultural genocide and language barriers. This scene makes me uncomfortable, but let's press on.

Episode 4 is where Lois is most visibly Korean. In this episode the trio of Lois, Clark, and Jimmy are tasked with interviewing rich techbro Prof. Ivo of Amazo tech at an investor event. It's a prom episode. Lois wears a "hanbok inspired gala outfit" designed by Dou Hong and Jane Bak in a deliberate move to showcase Lois' Korean heritage. Bak comments "I remember feeling strongly about wanting to inject some aspect of her Korean heritage without disrupting her characteristic as a spunky and resourceful intern/reporter." while the wording poorly implies that Korean heritage is at odds with Lois' spunky personality- I do want to challenge a couple of the decisions that went into this design.

I want to acknowledge as an Asian butch that there are many ways to sport traditional garments and it's okay to mix and match to figure out what reclaiming culture (and your comfort) mean to you. However we're talking about the opportunity to showcase culture in an episode of a fictional animated show. I also encourage cultural gender expression that thinks outside of western white people's idea of gender (in both fiction and real life).

Whenever artists try to do a non-conforming spin on a cultural outfit, I always have to ask: "what standard of masculinity are we basing this on?" It's clear that MAWS is pushing for a "tomboy" Lois, and this gala outfit is an extension of that. But what's the standards of masculinity in a Korean lens? Men wear hanbok too, so why can't Lois imitate how Korean men wear hanbok, by traditionally accompanying her look with baji (baggy and loose pants)? This design notably has tight pants that hug the form, instead. I know the hanbok look has been modernized in and out of Korea in many ways, but in a show where you have the opportunity to showcase cultural non-conformity, I feel more thought should be put into the outfit outside of a potentially western lens- or the idea that cultural heritage of any sort "disrupts" a character's personality.

Now that we've discussed the design of the outfit, let's look into the narrative role it plays in episode 4. While we can celebrate cultural representation in media, I consider it important to ask "what is this media's relationship with the cultures it represents?" and the answer for Lois' hanbok in this episode is: nothing! It's an aesthetic acknowledgement of culture. "Hanbok" or "Korea" are not terms explicitly mentioned in the show. When Prof Ivo offers beautiful women as compensation for Clark to keep quiet about his company's corruption, Ivo looks over to Lois- who spills food on her clothes, and remarks that she's unclassy. She's not judged for wearing othering cultural clothes- which would have tied nicely into Clark choosing to be silent on issues of Ivo displacing a neighborhood, making Clark realize his complacency actively hurts marginalized people. Despite wearing cultural outfits being a political statement in America, nobody reacts to it. It's clear what the actual goal of this scene is: Clark looks cool for defending his "tomboy" crush.

In a scene blatantly made for fanservice, Lois offers to sew up Clark's ripped tuxedo by undressing her hanbok so she can reach her little sewing kit. Lois never wears her hanbok again afterwards. This scene haunts me. It's a scene that tells you that fanservice is more important than cultural representation. It's a scene meant to set up that Clark gives his tuxedo to Lois later on for warmth. Lois removing her hanbok is meant for not one, but two fanservice scenes.

Lois talks to Clark at the stairwell. She opens up about her estranged relationship with her father, how her mom has passed away, and how she's been an intern at the Daily Planet for a year with no sign of being hired. This makes the narrative decision for Lois to lose her hanbok far more tragic. Lois being a diasporic child with so few familial ties to her culture would mean garments like her hanbok would hold a lot of sentimental value! It's hard enough finding a cultural outfit that fits with your butchess (many of my cultural outfits are hand made to fit my form and gender expression), and yet Lois unceremoniously loses her hanbok. You would think in Lois opening up about being distant from her parents that Clark would be able to culturally relate with the distance he has with his Kryptonian parents. But the narrative opportunity to link their immigrant experiences is not taken, because the show simply doesn't recognize the parallel between the two.

Instead MAWS pushes for the Lois Thinks Superman is A Liar thing again. A far less narratively substantial and fundamentally flawed arc. This episode starts with Lois calling Superman a liar and has Lois ranting about him "dodging her questions" (remember, he was honest with her about not knowing his heritage) thereby rendering her interview unpublishable. She resorts to conspiracy tabloids giddily provided by Jimmy for information. She rather cruelly says "nobody normal believes in aliens". We are uncomfortably seeing the build up of Lois being allegorically xenophobic towards alien immigrants- a Lois on a quest to out an alien before he's ready. This is their justification for flipping the love triangle. Lois loves cuteboy Clark from work, and hates Superman for not confirming her biases that would help her publish an interview that would promote her at work. What a love story.

To wrap this episode up: Prof Ivo ends up challenging Superman to a fight so he can flex his Parasite suit to investors, only for it to backfire, destroy his reputation, and greatly damage the Amazo building (remember this it'll come back later). The episode ends with Lois discovering Superman is Clark Kent. Anecdotally, I was so frustrated with the treatment of Lois' hanbok in this episode, that I went online to search if anyone else felt similarly. All I was met with was fandom thirsting over the stairwell scene where Clark and Lois were undressing. Consider the optics of an Asian character who removed the most visible signifier of her heritage (the outfit far more culturally specific where her character design was racially ambiguous) and how people cheered because that meant they could see her in her undergarments. They can happily thirst over the body they desired now that the othering cultural garment was out of the way. It's just clothes after all. Diversity clothes. This show continues to be very uncomfortable, and a little too real.

In episode 5 Lois is passive aggressive to Clark and Superman, trying to get Clark to admit he's Superman and vice versa. She eventually confronts Clark by jumping off the roof of the Daily Planet, causing Clark to fly down and save her. She proclaims she doesn't want to be friends with him anymore for "lying" to her. This episode caused a huge ruckus online as people were divisive over Lois' actions. Some defended Lois, saying that "women should be messy" and "it's not Lois Lane if she doesn't do something crazy for journalism!". Ignoring that opinion's very flandarized view of Lois' character for a second, let's thoroughly discuss how this relates to themes of immigration and Asian identity.

By this episode, Lois had known Clark for 5 days. In that time she's entitled and angry to the point of friend-breaking-up with him because he wouldn't disclose his marginalized identity to her within less than a week. "A secret is another type of lie!" Lois says, regardless of her lying on sight to both Jimmy and Clark upon meeting them at work, and continued to lie in episode 3 (after promising not to in ep 1) about her intentions to interview Superman. Only Lois gets to lie in this relationship. The hypocrisy of her character is never recognized. Clark calls out Lois for having previously admitted to him that she wanted to dox Superman and "publish all his secrets. MY secrets!". Keep in mind that when Clark brings up Superman feeling uncomfortable about his secrets being published by Lois in episode 3, Lois' response was "yeah, but HE doesn't know that's my plan!". She explicitly admits that she would publish private information about Superman without his permission. But when she's confronted by Clark in episode 5 about that, her response is "I would never do that to you, I didn't know it was you until after the gala. How could you think that?" It's only through conflict of interest that Lois spares Superman of being doxed. He's supposed to magically know this. Extremely cool of Asian American Lois to be entitled to an alien immigrant's identity within four business days.

Episode 6 wraps up the Lois Hates Superman For Being A Liar arc, so let's quickly summarize what happens. Lois and Clark set aside their fight to find Jimmy in an abandoned scientific facility (he's being cared for by Mallah and the Brain). Jimmy admits (very smugly) to having known Clark was Superman all along because he kept breaking stuff. As the trio are chased by killer robots, they emotionally confront Clark for not trusting them with his alien secret- despite neither Lois or Jimmy creating a safe environment for Clark to come out to either of them (Jimmy outed Superman as an alien on his video channel). The moral of the story is Clark should have trusted his friends anyway, because lying is bad. Not once does the narrative hold Jimmy or Lois accountable.

We have Black Jimmy Olsen and Asian American Lois Lane being entitled to their white passing friend Clark Kent's marginalized alien identity. A joke is made at Jimmy's expense that he doesn't understand bigotry, and Lois clearly doesn't understand why an immigrant wouldn't be forthcoming about his identity to his hostile friends at work. This is how that arc ends.

I'd like to quickly compare this Lois Hates Superman For Being A Liar arc to my favorite scene in Superman Smashes the Klan. In this story, Superman debuts as a strongman superhero instead of an alien, suppressing his more othering powers to pass as human. He jumps instead of flying. Roberta, the Chinese American girl targeted by the Klan, calls Superman out for not using his full abilities to save people who could've gotten hurt. Yet, as she's calling him out, Roberta understands Superman's fear of not wanting to be othered. She sees the way her father dresses up to pass as an accomplished scientist, how he tells her mom to speak in English, how her brother makes racist jokes at their family's expense to fit in. She's not mad at Superman, she's mad at the world that would be scared of Superman if he flew.

"I wish it were okay for you to fly!" Roberta yells. This is a beautifully empathetic scene that shows a marginalized person frustrated at a systemic problem, instead of blaming the marginalized for being marginalized. It's the empathy and perspective we're missing from MAWS.

Episode 7 is a metatextual episode where MAWS addresses how their Lois isn't like the other Loises you've seen before. Lois and Jimmy are brought on to a team of alternate dimension Loises to find interdimensional troublemaker Mxy. In seeing the other more accomplished Loises in the multiverses, Lois ends up feeling inadequate about her self worth...in connection to being Superman's girlfriend, of course. Because Superman only loves Lois Lane after she wins a couple of Pulitzers, right?

I'm open to a version of Lois Lane that isn't as accomplished as she's historically known to be. I can like a Lois that's young and idealistic, like in Girl Taking Over. It's hard not to compare this episode to 2022's Everything Everywhere All At Once, another multiverse story about an Asian American woman who is the "greatest failure" version of all the parallel iterations of herself. But while that movie talks in depth about themes of generational trauma, expectations, and self potential within Asian immigrant families, MAWS uses the multiverse to say that while their Lois is less accomplished, she's still a good girlfriend to Superman! Why should I bother giving grace to a different take on Lois only to get such a superficial story out of it. This is metatextual-ly frustrating.

Why is it, the minute we get an adaptation of an Asian Lois in something as prominent as an animated show, we get "the worst Lois in the multiverse"? Lois is historically depicted as excelling in her field. She's an award winning journalist, jaded and mean from having to work her way to the top. She owns her sexuality, she's the experienced city girl. Instead of taking the opportunity to inform Lois' jadedness and excellence with her Asian American identity like in Girl Taking Over, instead we have an Asian Lois that's simply incompetent at her job. Why are we now adapting historically accomplished women into adorkable quirky screw ups? She went from being sexually confident to being insecure over sending a text to Clark. Is it more relateable to see an Asian woman that way? Is it too intimidating to see a butch Asian woman who excels at her job? Who's romantically confident? This is what MAWS would rather do than humanize her excellence or her failures.

Are you tired of an ambiguously designed Asian American woman reporter being xenophobic to Superman in MAWS? Well too bad because episode 8 introduces us to Vicki Vale, voiced by Andromeda Dunker (an Asian actress), with explicit notes in leaked concept art to design this character as "Indian American or Asian American" (as if those are mutually exclusive...) inspired off of real Asian reporter Connie Chung. Vicki wants to write a hit piece on Superman and interviews Prof Ivo's assistant, Alex, for a negative biased opinion on Superman (to Lois and Jimmy's dismay).

This episode is where it's abundantly clear the writers don't know how to talk about xenophobia. They'll make nods to xenophobic rhetoric, but they don't know what the rhetoric means. In response to Alex's derisive opinion on Superman destroying Amazo tower thereby bankrupting the company and putting "thousands out of work", Vicki responds "Superman wiped out good American jobs". This is a misplaced nod to Replacement Theory: the fear white people have over people of color, but particularly immigrants, coming to "their" country to "steal" jobs they're entitled to, ultimately becoming demographically replaced by non-white cultures and people. This rhetoric is also commonly applied to Jewish people.

The problem is, that's not what Superman did in the show. Amazo tech was going to go bankrupt because of Prof Ivo's poor business decisions. Prof Ivo made the mistake of antagonizing Superman and ruining his own image. Superman damaging the building came from his fight with Prof Ivo, not a deliberate attempt to get hired (if anything don't the building repair people have new jobs now?). No one's job is tangibly being taken by Superman. None of this is called out by Lois or Jimmy, who know the full story and were even the ones to attack Alex for helping Prof Ivo (let's be real the writers forgot this happened). In fact, Lois and Jimmy don't react to Vicki's Replacement Theory remark at all! It's like they don't even recognize she said something with racist implications!

Jimmy and Lois meet up with Superman who learns the people of Metropolis are becoming scared of him (from causing some recent property damage in an attempt to hunt a criminal down) and writing mean comments on social media. A user writes "he should go back to where he came from." This is a transparently xenophobic comment. It doesn't work in the context of the show because of a huge plot hole: Superman never publicly came out as an alien to Metropolis. No verified newspaper has explicitly made this fact known. The only source that mentions this is Jimmy's conspiracy channel, which the citizens of Metropolis are apparently treating as fact- therefore (if we're to believe this is how people knew) this means Jimmy absolutely outed Superman as an alien without Clark's consent.

So how does Asian American Lois respond to seeing her alien boyfriend go through xenophobia? She says "Take a break from being Superman and just try being normal." To be fair, the narrative does portray Lois saying the word "normal" as charged (only here at least, not in episode 4), and when she tells Superman to "take a break" it's because he had been overworking himself after suddenly unlocking the ability to hear when someone's in trouble. But was this really the response Asian American Lois thought to say? To her boyfriend going through such explicit xenophobia? At this point it's abundantly clear that racism doesn't exist in the world of MAWS. Being "normal" is to be human. And to be marginalized- or as the show likes to call it "different" is only reserved for white passing alien man Clark (along with gorilla and robot that was once a white man). Any hope of an immigrant parallel between Asian American Lois and Superman should be fully discarded at this point.

After the events of the previous episode where Superman is kidnapped by Task Force X, in episode 9 Lois regrets being allegorically xenophobic to Clark. At least I think that's what's happening. I often describe MAWS as a show that's extremely squeamish with getting political- and I believe the vagueness of Lois' Dark Night of the Soul moment reflects that. "I said awful things to Clark. I doubted him when he needed us most. I was wrong and now he's gone..." Lois says as she cries to Jimmy. Is this dialogue implying she shouldn't have told a sleep deprived Superman to take a break? What did she doubt about him? This dialogue is purposefully vague about Lois being xenophobic. They've universalized Clark's immigrant identity to such a point that they can't keep their argument consistent. Was Lois in the wrong for telling her overworked superhero boyfriend to take a break? Or was she being xenophobic for telling him to lay low for a while? Or is she regretful for hating Superman for Being A Liar? How is that possible when the narrative sided with her and Jimmy in episode 6? It's woefully non-committal. Regardless, the intent of this scene is to pay off in the climax of the episode.

In the end Superman has a showdown with Prof Ivo Parasite, who has grown into a large godzilla-esque kaiju creature. In typical MAWS fashion, the show is more interested in a surface level nod to Asian media instead of engaging with the specific themes of nature and post-war trauma kaijus and godzilla serve in Japanese culture. I digress. Using Jimmy's massive social media platform, Lois delivers a hope speech that instantly heals Metropolis of its xenophobia towards Superman.

Lois says to the people of Metropolis.: "People have told you to fear Superman because he's different from us. But we humans are capable of causing hurt and pain too. [...] Because we want to punish those who don't look or act like us." I mean this in the most polite way possible, but who on Earth thought this line was a good idea for Asian American Lois Lane to deliver when talking about white passing man Superman?? Why did the writers feel the need to specify Superman not looking like us. I simply don't understand how nobody considered the terrible optics of this.

After Superman defeats Parasite, episode 10 is about Clark, Lois, and Jimmy celebrating Thanksgiving at the Kents' house. At the Daily Planet, the trio of interns are promoted to finally being reporters. It only took Clark and Jimmy a few weeks while it took Lois a whole year! Now feels like a good time to remind you that Lois as a character was historically frustrated at sexism in the industry and despised how men were treated better than her (including Clark Kent). Well in MAWS episode 4, Lois has no idea why she isn't getting picked up to be a reporter. According to the narrative, and Perry White's dialogue ("you're terrible interns, so the only thing to do was to make you reporters")- she simply didn't break enough rules yet! Thank goodness she had the help of two men to show her how it's done! This is a pretty clear case of character regression. Keep in mind that in American Alien, at the very least that Asian Lois still underwent sexism, and I gave it the grace that the story could eventually expand to talking about both sexism and racism if it were to continue. But in MAWS? I don't think even sexism exists, let alone racism. Somehow Thanksgiving does, though.

Half the final episode is spent on Thanksgiving shenanigans where everyone's trying to be polite but they dislike Lois' stoic dad (Sam Lane)- who Clark recognizes as the Asian American xenophobic man who tortured him in Task Force X's government bunkers. A parallel is pulled between Sam and Jor-El, two fathers with different ideals when it comes to protecting their kids. There's a huge missed opportunity to have Lois and Sam speak in Korean with each other, to create a parallel in the language barrier between Clark and Jor-El. Maybe Lois isn't as fluent in Korean as Sam is depending on how culturally connected she is. Oh, but the existence of non-English human languages would imply some sort of minority, who would be marginalized, and we can't have anyone outside of aliens and a gorilla be marginalized in MAWS. Non-English languages in America are political, after all. Oh, but they also got a Filipino actor to voice Sam. Generously Lois could be Filipino-Korean but if we're being truly honest it's clear the MAWS crew think Asians are interchangeable.

Let's talk about Sam. In terms of optics, it's already not great that the main villains who represent the face of America's secret government xenophobia are Amanda Waller and Sam Lane- a Black woman and an Asian man. What's doubly notable is that of the antagonistic villains, Sam and Vicki are the most xenophobic. When Sam tortures Superman, he shouts "When is the invasion? How many of your kind will come through this time?" without a hint of irony. Reminder that historically, Asian immigrants were (and still are) considered invaders in America. They are the perpetual foreigner. MAWS loves making nods to Superman being an immigrant allegory, and yet they can't fathom the human beings that allegory is inspired by.

It's not impossible to portray people of color or even Asian American characters specifically being xenophobic. In Superman Smashes the Klan, Dr. Lee is initially antagonistic towards Superman but we understand why. We see him trying desperately to assimilate into whiteness, to the point he rejects assistance from his Black neighbors who help put out a fire in their backyard (that the Klan started as a threat). We understand why he's a character who would turn on fellow people of color, or fellow immigrants, in order to fit in. For MAWS, if we had a flashback scene where Sam was serving in the military and fought against Asian soldiers, showcasing his loyalty to America over his own people- that would narratively explain why an Asian American character would be xenophobic. Writing bigotry from within marginalized communities requires specificity. Otherwise, you've just got a diverse villain. In the end, Lois defends her immigrant alien boyfriend from her xenophobic Asian American dad.

Whenever I bring up how MAWS fails its characters of color but especially Asian Lois, I'm met with people telling me that "hopefully they'll make Lois more Asian in S2" or "they'll just retcon the bad writing in S1" and I hope this thorough analysis on the treatment of Lois' Asian American identity can help enlighten why I personally think that's impossible. The entire concept is flawed from the very beginning. The story MAWS wants to tell is at odds with Lois' Asian identity. In trying to justify an Asian Lois that loves Clark but hates Superman, they never considered what it means to hate Superman. To hate the alien immigrant. The alien other. What it means for an Asian American character to do all that. MAWS is a show that wants to have its cake and eat it too, they want a diverse world without racism or sexism but still want to reap the clout of lightly portraying Superman as "different".

They'll make the most surface level nods to Lois' Korean heritage- but remove all of the cultural context from them. They can't be bothered to acknowledge the inherit political identity being a person of color means in America, they're too busy doing that with Clark. I'm told "MAWS didn't have the time to go over Lois' Asian identity, it's a 10-episode series that focuses on Clark's alienation", and to that I say the potential of an immigrant love story and time frame was there, they simply chose to go another direction.

When I bring up things like Superman Smashes the Klan, Girl Taking Over, and Everything Everywhere All At Once, it's not to say MAWS should have used those stories as reference when crafting their allegory. All of those specific media were released while MAWS was deep in production already. Girl Taking Over was released the same year MAWS premiered. What I am saying is that we, as the audience, should have higher standards. Because better media portraying Asian American characters already exist. Better media portraying Asian characters relating to Superman mythos already exists. What we're doing when we celebrate the breadcrumbs of representation that is MAWS, is allowing mediocrity to exist uncritically.

Shows like Wednesday are known in the discourse for their portrayal of Black characters as being functionally white, yet that kind of scrutiny doesn't seem known for MAWS. The diverse reimagining of Lois and Jimmy is so poorly handled in MAWS that it would honestly make more sense if Jimmy and Lois were white here. The joke made at Jimmy's expense that he doesn't understand bigotry would be actually funny if it was calling out his white privilege. If, for whatever reason, the writers are compelled to write a xenophobic Lois that unlearns her bigotry and falls for Superman, I'd rather she be white for that kind of story. I wouldn't personally root for that kind of couple, but at least it'd make sense. It's a common joke among DCAU fans of color that we like to headcanon Lex Luthor as Black, or Lois Lane and Terry Mcginnis as Asian. It's a cruel irony that the one time we finally have a canonized Asian Lois in an animated show, she honestly feels and acts whiter than actual white Lois ever was.

I mentioned in Pt 1 of my essay that Asian Lois and Superman has the potential to be a definitive love story. One that considers both their backgrounds as immigrants, othered in different ways by American society. The story of a jaded but accomplished Asian city girl who finds hope to be herself again in an alien immigrant superhero. One where she gets the courage to wear traditional clothes again, to practice languages she once suppressed. The story of Superman, an alien immigrant, finding hope in someone with a painfully similar experience.

As of writing, we have yet to see this dynamic in any canon DC media. A second season of MAWS will not give us that story.

[amber-sekio]

Relationship Headcanons

Fandom: BSD -Bungo Stray Dogs

TW: none? I think? 

DAZAI 

I said it in my Soukoku fic, Dazai wouldn’t know affection if it slapped him in the face ten times 

Like he might realize when someone is showing interest in a sexual kind 

And he would probably notice if someone is crushing on him 

But like, if he likes them back? 

No 

Man is blind 

He’s too busy panicking over read denying his own thoughts and feelings over you to analyze your actions 

He’s busy trying to think of anything but how pretty you are when he sees you -thank you very much 

No joke though, this can be applied to pretty much anyone he cares about 

I mean he practically had a heart attack when Atsushi gave him flowers 

Anyways if he finally admits to himself that he likes you then I could see him trying to push you away if I’m being brutally honest 

He doesn’t want to lose you and he believes that anything he wants that he obtains, will be striped from him sooner or later 

But…, in a perfect world he would eventually work up the courage to ask you out 

He would probably avoid directly asking you but this is Dazai so he could defiantly figure out some round-about way to ask 

As for the relationship? 

He would still be his teasing self 

But he would tone it down 

Not because he doesn’t want to annoy you but more so because he actually lets some of his masks down when alone with you 

He defiantly is very clingy to you 

Man has been touch starved for a long time and he fears attachment too much to be touchy with the ADA members 

But now he has you, who not only tolerates him but has decided to stay with him? 

Of course he’s not going to let this chance slip from his grasp before all this inevitably ends (he’s still in denial) 

He never cared much for holidays like Christmas or Valentines 

But now he wants to experience them, with you 

He’s always thinking, plans and outcomes racing through his mind, what ifs and regrets  

But like, if you ruffle his hair, his brain just stops. 

Like no thoughts, he short circuits 

When his brain returned to him the first time it happened he panicked 

Like, who gave you that amount of control? 

After that first time he continued to try and get you to do it without asking 

He needed his brain to shut up every now and then, and now he has a reliable source 

Anyways, he likes to be a spoiled princess 

No one can change my mind 

For all his predictions he will never be able to predict your love and kindness for him 

CHUUYA 

Someone give this poor man a hug 

Ugh, my heart 

I can‘t imagine him wanting to date a normal citizen, too much of a risk 

So you’d probably have to work in the Mafia 

Even then, dating you would still be placing a huge target on you 

He would actually take you out on dates before asking you out 

Dates with him would be romantic 

Like dinner by candle light vibes 

He’d be strategic on where you guys sit 

No need to be precarious on what you order, it’s all on him 

When he does ask you out he would be slightly flustered but it just makes him adorable 

Say yes, he doesn’t deserve to be hurt any more 

He would spoil you to no end 

If you want it, you can have it 

You’re the only one allowed to call him short 

He might get flustered from PDA in the start but will gradually warm up to it 

Nothing clingy, just hand holding, a hand around your waist, a quick kiss here or there 

But if he sees some guy hitting on you? 

Down right possessive, arm snug around your waist, shoulder to shoulder 

And if he’s drunk? Even worse 

Like he’s pulling you onto his lap just to make sure that asshole knows your taken 

If you do work in the mafia with him, he likes going on easier missions with you 

And while he knows that you can handle yourself just fine, he can’t help but imagine something bad happening to you when he isn’t there to save you 

He’s lost too many people in his life, please, don’t leave him as well 

He loves when you rest your head on his chest and listen to his heartbeat 

And while you do that he’ll run his fingers through your hair 

Chuuya loves to spoil you rotten as I stated, it’s his love language 

So sometimes he’ll just hand you his black card and let you go shopping with friends or something 

In fact, he encourages you to buy what you want 

FYODOR 

Honestly? Where do I start with him? 

Like congratulations if you meet him and make it out alive 

I don’t know if I should congratulate him taking an interest in you though 

I feel like he believe that the interest he had in you was purely innocent curiosity 

But I also don’t think he would try to delude himself for as long as Dazai does 

Eventually he would notice that something was different about his interest for you than usual 

And while he would hesitate to put a name to it so quickly he would eventually give in after realizing there was no stoping this feeling from festering in him 

After coming to terms with his romantic? Feelings and interest in you he would definitely begin to manipulate you into feeling the same way for him 

If you don’t already that is 

If you don’t confess then he’ll definitely do the same thing Dazai did 

And when you agree, he of course knew you would, he makes you move in with him 

He can’t let his dearest other slip from his finger now can he? 

I feel like before ever getting into a relationship, you would have been made aware of his ‘work’  

Please, make sure the man eats 

And takes his iron pill 

Nikolai is getting a little tired of that daily routine despite how much he loves to be around Fyodor 

Anyways, dates aren’t a very common thing in fact, very, very rare 

I mean… what did you expect? 

Man’s a literal terrorist 

That being said, from time to time he’ll leave his ‘lair’ to spend time with you 

If you ask, he’ll gladly play the cello for you 

If he snaps at you for ‘bothering him with pointless things’ when you bring him his iron pill or food just listen 

Don’t bother him with such things 

And then same thing the next day 

And after some 4 or 5 days he’ll stumble from his room 

Staggering as he tries not to collapse or faint from both his lack of energy and his iron deficiency 

And when he walks into the kitchen trying to get the iron pill bottle open? 

Let him stumble his way over to you and ask for help before you finally do as such 

And he realizes just how dependent on you he’s become 

It’ll happen again eventually 

But as of that moment, it’ll at least be awhile before the cycle repeats 

(That last part of Fyodor’s was based upon some fanfic I read for him. I'm not sure who it was by, but I’ll tag it if and when I do find it.) 

A/N: anyways, believe it or not, I love Chuuya just as much as I do Fyodor and Dazai 

I’m just not as confident in his character. Since I’m a lot like Dazai, he comes easy to me and by substitute, Fyodor does as well 

But Chuuya? Despite him being one of my 5 favorites along with Dazai and Fyodor, I just don’t resonate personally enough with him to write him really well

[herefortheships]

Why do you think he fell in love with Lydia? see, it's much stronger than it was for Dolores, I'm not going to ask when because it would be complicated Bj and Lydia have such opposite personalities

Love this question! And to be honest, ever since I watched BJBJ I've been wondering about this. Because, to me, at least when I first watched the movie, I got to the conclusion that he must have fallen in love with her over the years; that he never had any true romantic inclinations towards Lydia in the first movie. So I had to wonder, what changed?

This answer got long... So I'll put a little summary, Tl;Dr answer here: I think there's an in-canon reason he fell for her and a meta reason why Tim Burton and co decided to make Betelgeuse be in love with Lydia in canon. The in-canon reason: Opposites attract. She is exactly his type: a dark, mysterious beauty. Plus her calm demeanor suits his unhinged nature. Their energies play nicely off each other, completing and balancing each other in a way no one else could, whether Lydia realizes it now or not. Lydia also never seemed to mind ugly, scary, dark things, and Betelgeuse is kind of all of that. At some point he grew fond of her and started needing this sweet, dark beauty in his (after)life. The meta reason: Lydia and Betelgeuse are a favorite "Burton Couple", almost right there with Jack and Sally, at least to a LOT of people.

Now to the long answer, because I totally always write a lot (below the read more cut bc this one got pretty long):

I think to properly answer why he fell in love with her, I do need to get into the when. And this is where I might have to put a "trigger warning" just in case, since I will touch upon how he felt towards Lydia in the first movie, when she was a teenager. Anyone uncomfortable with that needs to click away now. We're going to analyze this with the context and nuance of Betelgeuse's backstory. Context and nuance tend to be overlooked a LOT when the purity factions of fandom want to impose moral superiority upon other members of the fandom, so maybe placing the "trigger warning" may not be enough, but, anyway, you've been warned about the topics of this post.

The context and nuance: Betelgeuse, when alive, lived in the time of the bubonic plague, this means he was alive during the 1300s, presumably in Italy. At that time, marrying a 15-16 year old was socially acceptable and normal. Heck, even younger than that (as unacceptable as that seems to us today in our modern times). So it wasn't that strange as it is today. The reason is that people often didn't get to live past 30. The average, oldest age of death around the time was 60 years old. It was also common for men of the time (and where Betelgeuse lived in Italy, and Europe, as I’m reading in these articles) to marry much later than women, as in it was common for men in their 30s and 40s to marry a 14 year old (which I believe is even younger than Lydia was in that movie, not sure). All of that is in that article. That depends entirely on social ranking though; if he was lower class often people married for convenience and I'm not sure but I think age wasn't a factor to consider when people were struggling. In Europe even in the 1800s you'd see age gaps in marriages. //Edit: and America! For some reason my brain when I wrote this at midnight thought Poe was European 💀.// Edgar Allan Poe married a 13 year old when he was 27, for example (which I totally find super weird, personally, but at their time it wasn't a super weird thing as it is today, as far as I've read; it was also normal to marry a cousin around that time in the upper class and upper middle class, or so I've seen). Was Tim Burton aware? Who knows. But at least I'm putting this out there as the context why it isn't weird for Betelgeuse the character to see a teenager as someone of marrying age. We also know he didn't want to marry her in the first movie because he was in love with her; she was a means to an end, more than anything, regardless of any interest he had in her due to her looks etc.

Ok, so now that that's out of the way we can keep talking. Even though I joined the Beetlebabes fandom only after the second movie, and shipping these two characters never once crossed my mind throughout the years of me watching the first movie, after some thought and after rewatching the movie with the knowledge of where the story goes after the events of that movie, I can definitely see that Betelgeuse became interested in Lydia ever since the first movie, and also why he's head over heels for her in the present.

Even though I still think he fell in love over the years after the events of the first movie, I think he became smitten with her since the first movie. Here's why he fell for her: For starters, she is a dark and mysterious beauty, and that seems to be his type (look at Delores, also a dark beauty). We can actually see the moment he first shows interest in her in the first movie, when he saw her while in his snake form. She was the only one he did not hurt. He only stared at her, almost like he was taken aback by her. When Barbara banishes him back to the model, we have that little moment when he mentions he feels the only one he can make a deal with in that house is "Edgar Allan Poe's daughter", meaning Lydia. And we have the little horny joke, so if you wanna throw that one in there as evidence he became interested in her here, then sure you can. As this happens directly after he's seen Lydia face to face... Rember the context above before you want to call him a pdfler or something... please. He is Not.

Then later when she meets him in his real form, she doesn't seem startled or scared that she's in the presence of a demon/ghost. In fact, she just simply asks him "are you a ghost, too?" and that's when he starts making some conversation. He realizes she can see him and communicate with him. You can tell at this point he is intrigued by her. She is the only one he's shown a sort of sensitivity to in the entire movie. He asks her "why?" when she says she wants to go in to the after life (essentially, that she wants to di e). He doesn't try anything naughty with her; instead, next time he sees her when she asks for his help, he proposes the marriage.

Now, at the time I don't think he loved her or even cared much about her; at this time he just wanted out and here was an eligible woman, who was not only beautiful and available, she could also see him and needed his help, which he used as his way to try to get out of the afterlife. I think once they got rid of him, and he realized he could still connect with her over the years, his interest in her grew and he started really growing fond of her until inevitably he fell in love.

Lydia is physically his type, but there's also a calmness to her that plays against his unpredictable, unhinged personality. She's someone who can balance him, and he's someone she could hold on to; there's an energy in him that she can use. Of course Lydia doesn't yet see how she'd be compatible with someone like him, but from an outsider's perspective, they really compliment each other's personalities. She's calm and quiet; he's crazy and loud. She's reserved; he's outgoing. She's a dark cloud; he's high-energy, like sunshine. Etc. Opposites attract. 💚

Now finally, the meta reason: Lydia and Betelgeuse seem to be a favorite "Burton couple" not only to Tim Burton himself (and the cast of the movie themselves!) but also to a great number of people. There's people who grew up watching the Beetlejuice cartoon series and didn't even watch the first movie, who for years had the idea that these two characters actually adore each other. There were people who were going in to watch this movie with that context only. And there were even people who were going to watch the sequel as their introduction to Beetlejuice (like my mom's best friend, for example! She loved the sequel but has NEVER watched the first movie nor the cartoon. She also wanted Betelgeuse and Lydia to end up together after watching this one, by the way). From a meta perspective, Lydia and Betelgeuse are just a fan favorite couple and an inseparable pair. So partly the choice to make it canon that at least he is absolutely in love with her comes from this expectation that many people had for these two characters. It just feels natural; they're just an iconic Burton pair.

[ladyluscinia]

What Exactly Did David Jenkins Say?

Look, I'm still staunchly of the opinion that Word of God statements and creator interviews are overvalued in fandom, especially when they get pulled out mostly as gotchas without then continuing to analyze whether or not the show canon is successful at getting across that same message. Death of the Author is good, actually, and we should remember that. But they are worth looking at in the context of evaluating intent vs execution, and for future speculation - just, like, please with less of the whole mile high pedestal idolizing and backlash cycles.

But if overvalued "Word of God" is annoying, then overvalued "supposed creator statements that have gone through three rounds of telephone and any given blogger has only heard about a quarter of them, which they'll use confidently anyway" is worse. So, since I'd already looked up interviews for various reasons...

Here is a fairly comprehensive list of interviews David Jenkins has given and statements he's made during them, presented without commentary (save curating which statements get highlighted). All provided with links. I definitely missed some, so if you have any that you want to add, please do - though if you could trim off any commentary and save it for tags / your own post with a link that would be cool.

Also, again, just because he said it doesn't make it incontrovertible canon that only a blind person wouldn't understand. Some of these even arguably contradict each other. The creator's intent doesn't always translate to what the show is doing, nor do you even have to think it was a good idea.

(Listed in chronological order from oldest to newest - post contains spoilers below the cut)

Pre-S1

Gizmodo - Feb 22, 2022 - with Cheryl Eddy (io9) - Link

Why this story - Really, it was the enigma of Stede that drew him in. "I think actual pirate stuff is fine, but it's not necessarily my cup of tea. And I think Taika [Waititi] felt similarly. But hearing about this guy and reading about him and seeing that, you know, he left his family, then he met Blackbeard, they hit it off, and we don't know any of the details in between. So filling those blanks in, and having a very human story, and then being able to do it with the pirate genre, that was like, 'Oh, this would be cool.'"

Post 1x01 - 1x03

Polygon - March 5, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

About Stede running off to sea - "Stede thought he could outrun his baggage, and you can't outrun your baggage."

About S1 - "I don't think there was enough improv on set! We had an insane schedule, with a huge amount of plot. We were budgeted and designed as a one-hour show, but with a half-hour production schedule, which means we really had to chase these episodes to get them shot. And then there are certain emotional beats that we really needed. So trying to find places to find the fun was hard."

Mashable - Mar 5, 2022 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the show concept - "It was Jenkins' wife who first told him about Stede's adventures; she thought it would make a good TV show."

On casting Rhys Darby - "Stede did a terrible thing to his family. If you cast it wrong, he's a very hard character to get behind," Jenkins said. "Very quickly, the only person I thought of for this was Rhys [Darby]. He has this childlike quality that's endearing."

About the story - "Seeing them discover a need for each other that neither anticipated and charting how that relationship goes is the meat of the story." + "If you're on this ship, you're running from something, and you're running to something that you can't be on land"

Mentions of matelotage - "In fact, one of Jenkins's favorite pirate facts that he learned while working on Our Flag Means Death was the term matelotage, which was a civil union between same-sex pirates. "The more you look at it," he explained, "the more you write to the fact that this is a queer-positive world.""

Discussing piracy careers - "Something else that astounded Jenkins about pirates was "just how fast it all moved — their lives were quite short," he said. "Your career [in piracy] wasn't very long.""

Post 1x09 - 1x10

Decider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Kayla Cobb - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "That was in the pitch," series creator David Jenkins told Decider. "That was the reason, to make them fall in love with each other."

About the romance - "The main thing to me was to side-step coming out," Jenkins continued. "I just want a romance. I want a Titanic romance between these two people. We don't have to do the coming out story and then the non-binary story for Jim [Vico Ortiz]."

About S2 and the show - "The show is the relationship," Jenkins said. "So, we end in a place where there is this breakup. What happens after a breakup between these two people who, one’s realized he's in love and the other one is hurt in a way that he's never been hurt before? What does that do to each of them in an action, pirate world with them trying to find each other again? So again, I really love those rom-com beats."

Collider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Carly Lane - Link

On making it a romcom - "It's the only reason to make the show. If you didn't do that, it would just be weird. I mean, you're using the rom-com beats. You're using these like they're together. And it's funny because so we're so habituated to be like bromance, bromance, bromance, and it's such a simple move to put them together."

Discusses focusing on romance - "I guess I really... I get kind of bored. How much pirate can you do? They're going to rob stuff. They're going to steal ships. There's only so many pirate stories you can do. So if you're going to do a workplace story, I mean, you're essentially having this... You'd have this same amount of relationships in Grey's Anatomy in the ER. So it's standard. It's the most standard. We're making a soap opera on a pirate ship, and to use those soap opera beats... I like it, and I like the flavor in a comedy when you have something that's played genuinely up against very ridiculous things."

Discusses history and kissing scene

Discusses importance of going home to Mary - "Yeah, that was the problem for me in the story. I knew that I wanted to have the end where he goes home, because you need to give Mary her day in court. I just wanted to know from Mary's perspective what happened and then to see that, yeah, they're friends."

Is Lucius dead? - "You got to wait."

EW.com - Mar 25, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "To me, [Stede and Blackbeard's relationship] is the reason to make the show," Jenkins explains. "When Taika and I were first talking about it, he was like, 'Oh yeah, that's the show.' I first started reading about Stede and how he befriended Blackbeard and we don't know why. Very quickly, it was like, 'Oh, it's a romance.'"

Polygon - Mar 25, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season intent - "I think three seasons is good. I think we could do it in three."

Discusses acts within S1 - "To me, when you see him get stabbed, and the blood runs through his fingers, it’s like 'Oh, no, the clown got stabbed! And not comedy-stabbed, he got stabbed stabbed!' That to me is cool. And then having Blackbeard find him as the end of what would be the first act of our story felt good to me."

Discusses kiss scene filming and the national moment around gay rights

What to focus on a rewatch - "I think Con O'Neill does such a great job. He's such a complex character, and it's such a tortured relationship. And that's a love story too, between him and Blackbeard. It's a very dysfunctional story, but it's fun to watch. Watch that maybe, on a rewatch, looking where their relationship ultimately goes."

TV Insider - Mar 25, 2022 - with Meaghan Darwish - Link

Discusses show pitch - "When I was pitching [the show] to people, I'd be like, 'Okay, so it's about Stede and Blackbeard, and then they hit it off and then they fall in love.' And then people are like, 'Okay, cool,' Jenkins shares. "And then they really fall in love, and become intimately involved."

Discusses historical inspiration

Discusses S2 direction - "But when [Stede] goes to find [Blackbeard], he's gone and his crew's been abandoned. And so watching them try to negotiate that, that's a good rom-com beat," he adds.

The Verge - Apr 15, 2022 - with Charles Pulliam-Moore - Link

Discusses being surprised by queerbaiting legacy - "...part of me knew that, yes, Stede and Ed's romance was going to be real. But one part of me felt like, 'We're going to do this story, and they're going to kiss, and maybe that's not even going to be that big a deal. Maybe it'll just be a blip.'"

Discusses writing romance - "I'd never written a romance before this one, but I think with Ed and Stede, the question's always 'what's the need for each other?'"

Discusses falling in love and Stede's accidental seduction - "It made sense to have that love be almost like a teenage version of falling in love — one with all these intense and conflicting feelings. They're middle-aged, but Stede's young. Ed's young. Emotionally, they're like 16, and they've both got a lot to learn."

Discusses Con O'Neill as Izzy - "He plays an exhausted quality that's really lovely because this character could just be generically evil, and the way Con plays, it is like, he's credible. I believe that he can do some damage if he wanted to. My favorite thing I've seen about the show is somebody saying that Con's playing the only human with a bunch of Muppets. It does feel like that a bit where he's like Charles Grodin in The Great Muppet Caper."

On Izzy being in love with Blackbeard - "I think Izzy's deeply in love with Blackbeard, and it's a very dysfunctional kind of love, and he's like the jilted spouse who's losing his man to fucking Stede Bonnet, and he can't believe this is happening."

Discusses masculinity and piracy as an escape from that

Discusses diversity and trauma based stories - "And the consensus in that very diverse room was that we wanted to show that isn't just wallowing in trauma. We don't have to do a coming out scene or focusing on the trauma of it — not to say that those stories aren’t valid."

Gizmodo - Jun 20, 2022 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Musing on fandom response to the show - "I'm wondering if the fact that because the queerness of this show isn't gaslighting the audience, and isn't a function of wanting to do something, but not being able to produce the results because of network standards. I think we just happened to be in this lucky spot where the show is actually queer… and I do think that people are responding to that."

Comparing fanfiction to writing - "And Con O'Neill's audition was one of those things I would go back to. I would watch that and be like… Oh, right, that's the show. And in a way, you're writing fanfiction for a certain actor and character because you want them to do something, and you're like–" at this point, it must be said, Jenkins let out a maniacal little giggle. He’s just as thrilled to show off Con O'Neill's ability to seem both deeply exhausted and menacing as the rest of the fandom. "And you [as the writer] you're like… And then Izzy does this now."

EW.com - Dec 13, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses The Chain sequence - "I had initially wanted that end sequence to be like the FBI raid in a mob movie, where the feds come in, and they've got boxes of stuff, and everyone's running, and someone makes a dash for it," Jenkins explains. "So, it's like a mob movie or FBI raid story, and then it's also a story of Stede's lover coming back."

Pre-S2

Collider - Oct 2, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses fan reaction to S1 - "I thought that they'd kiss, and people would be like, 'Oh, cool, cool!' I kind of thought people would know a little bit more [about] where we were going, but then in hindsight, no, people have been hurt and burned on so many other shows and then made to feel silly."

Discusses starting S2 dark - "One of these characters is very, very damaged and has never made himself vulnerable in this way before, and I don't think [he] would react very well to having his heart broken in this way. I don't think it would be cute, and I don't think it would be funny. I think it would be scary as hell to watch a very damaged guy that we've established in Ed, who killed his dad and thinks he's not capable of being loved, deal with rejection and see that Stede really hurt him."

Discusses adding more female characters

Discusses S2 needle drops including "This Woman's Work"

Discusses 3-season arc

Post 2x01 - 2x03

Mashable - Oct 5, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discusses fandom response to S1

About the canon gay relationship - "To watch the explosion of enthusiasm around [the kiss] was disorienting, almost," Jenkins said. "I thought people would react to it, but I didn't think the reaction would be that big. And then it was moving, because I didn't realize that this audience felt so unserved in general, as far as storylines go."

Insider - Oct 5, 2023 - with Ayomikun Adekaiyero - Link

Tease on leaning into the Stede / Ed / Izzy love triangle - "I think Izzy, in a certain way, got the worst deal in the first season," the showrunner tells Insider. "He gets jilted and then he still is in spurned spouse territory at the beginning of the second season."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "What is that relationship about? And I think by the end of the season it kind of becomes a little unexpected of who they are to each other and what they mean to each other," he teases

Discusses addition of Zheng - "He likens Zheng's way of pirating to a successful tech startup, compared with the garage sale vibe Stede had going on the Revenge."

Discusses introducing Hornigold - "I thought Hornigold was the most obvious because he was the person who made Blackbeard what he is. And Blackbeard has a father complex, so it's natural that he's going to bring his former captain back," the show creator said. "It's a struggle with him because he and dad figures don't historically do well."

Discusses importance of the mermaid scene

Inverse - Oct 5, 2023 - with Hoai-Tran Bui - Link

Reveals he didn't commit to the romance until shooting 1x06 - "Jenkins always intended his pirate comedy to end with a romance, but he'd envisioned it as an unrequited love. "It was going to be about Stede learning what love is, and Ed making himself vulnerable and getting burned," Jenkins says of his original pitch. But Darby and Waititi's choices in the scene, which they played without diffusing the tenderness with a joke, made him wonder if they could take the show in a new direction."

Discusses mermaid Stede idea from S1 - "We talked about Stede as a mermaid very early on in the writers' room," Jenkins says. "At some point, yeah, I want to see Rhys Darby as a merman." + "They wanted us to come up with a Season 2 pitch during Season 1. And that was one of the ideas we hit on, and I can't quite remember how we got there, but it was us asking, what is a pirate world? Are there mermaids? Is there magic in this show? With pirate stuff, I don’t know that I want there to be magic, but there was a way where it was something really beautiful about a mer-person, and I like the idea that their coming together would have a mythic size to it."

Discusses historical divergence

Discusses matelotage and pirates as weird outsiders

TV Guide - Oct 5, 2023 - with Allison Piccuro - Link

About the shipping culture - "It's the meat of the show, so it's great to have people bought into the central romance. If it were a bromance that we were trying to make look like a romance, that would suck."

Discusses playlists he makes

Discusses opening dream sequence - "I just like that it started with something badass. Stede, Blackbeard, and Izzy are on an arc together. Whether they're in stories together or not, their ultimate arc is together. I think, by the end of this season, the last episode, that first scene will be gratifying. I won't say why, but their fates are tied together."

Discusses Kraken arc - "But I think the thing that's good about this show is that it can go to really sweet comedy land, but I want there to be, like, if someone loses a body part, for instance, they lose a body part. To do justice to the fact that this guy is a killer and a monster, and dealing with heartache that he doesn't know how to deal with, I think you really need to go there."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "I mean, he's jilted. He had a partnership with Blackbeard, and he knows he can't live up to this person that Blackbeard fell in love with... Who is that guy? What are his hobbies? What does it look like when he's not totally subsumed with his boss's love affair with somebody, and heartbroken?"

On S2 reunion - "The second season is them being a little bit more mature... It's the thing where you're in your 20s or 30s and you're like, "Well, should we move in together?" They have to make up some time because neither of them have been in a functional relationship before."

About genre of pirate stories - "...is a show about multiple relationships. That's what I want to see when I see this show. I don't want to see a bunch of pirate things that I've seen in other things, I'll just go watch another thing if I want to see that. That's not really my thing. I like the genre, but it's a very hard genre to budge. I want to see relationships in a pirate world."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Mashable - Oct 7, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the mermaid scene - "You need something expressive for when they come back together," Jenkins said. "Their reunion moment has to feel big and mythical. This is not a world where mermaids actually exist, but their love for each other has that size that you can get [a mermaid] in there somewhere."

About Kate Bush - "I love Kate Bush, and I love that song, and I know Taika loves that song," Jenkins explained of the choice. "So I wanted to find a place for that song somewhere in the second season."

Polygon - Oct 9, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson & more - Link

Compares S2 and "Golden Age of Piracy" stuff to Westerns, lists 5 he was thinking of - "Every Western that’s good is that story," Jenkins says. "'This way of life we made is coming to an end. It can't last. It's a blip in time. We created this thing because we need it to exist. We're outlaws, and we need a culture that suits us, but it's running out of time.'"

Gizmodo - Oct 9, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Short tease on leaning into the love triangle

About Stede, Edward, and Izzy - "I think the three of them are on an arc together that's pretty inseparable," Jenkins said in an interview with io9. "And to watch Izzy try to process what's happened [in season one]… to watch him kind of grow and figure out what's his own story, if he can separate himself from this kind of toxic relationship, is interesting to me and I think gives him a lot of room for growth."

Post 2x04 - 2x05

IndieWire - Oct 12, 2023 - with Sarah Shachat - Link

Discusses directing and show creation

"The limitations of the show also naturally push it back towards moments with the ensemble and plot problems that it would frankly be irresponsible to tackle if you had a giant budget and a fully working ship-of-the-line to sail and then blow to bits. "That's the fun of the show to us, I think. If you open this up and you're like, unlimited budget, that would be terrible because I think you can get seduced," Jenkins said. "[It could be like,] 'Oh man, it's all leading up to a climatic battle on the sea.' And those things are great. But that’s not this show.""

"The nice thing about that, though, is you get to be the lo-fi show that’s like, 'Hey, we’re making The Muppets.'"

PopSugar - Oct 12, 2023 - with Victoria Edel - Link

About S2 Stede - "I like the idea that he learns and grows and he doesn't just stay a bumbling captain. He might be ridiculous, but he is getting better at it."

Discusses genre challenges - "How do you have a show that's a romance show but it's also a workplace show and they're criminals?"

Discusses Edward's redemption - "But Blackbeard still has to come back and apologize and be part of the community again, and give his little press conference. It was fun for us to look at that in the context of piracy, where they all do terrible things to each other. But even by their standards, what Blackbeard did was a bit much."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "When Izzy shoots Blackbeard and they all mutiny on him, that's Izzy breaking up with Blackbeard. And they're both having their own journey in the wake of it, and Izzy's having his own redemption arc. He's trying to figure out, "Who am I if I'm not Blackbeard's first mate? Who am I outside of this relationship?"" + "If Stede's Spongebob, he's Squidward. I don't know what that makes Blackbeard. But there's a real pathos to Squidward."

Discusses trauma-based narratives - "As a diverse room in terms of sexuality, socio-economic background, and race, we thought, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a non-trauma-based story for these characters who don't get that historically?""

Variety - Oct 13, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

Discusses three act structure and making Stede work for a relationship - "The way I like to look at a season is in threes. The end of the first act is when they find each other, and this is the beginning of the second act. They've found each other, but they are pissed. Stede thought it was going to be [Kate Bush's] “This Woman's Work,” but, in reality, it is this headbutt –– literally."

Discusses the central romance - "It was always part of the pitch... that is the reason to make the show. The pirate genre is fun, but I wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. Taika wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. But the thing that was interesting to me was that Stede finds love, and he finds it with Blackbeard."

Discusses 2x04 plot - "This episode is based on a very, very thumbnail sketch of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?." Anne and Mary are Martha and George, and they are Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton."

Discusses adding historical pirates

Discusses Buttons exit - "I just love the idea of him turning into a bird: I love the idea of Buttons somehow being the one character that is able to figure that out."

Discusses Izzy and the crew's trauma plot - "We liked the idea that there is something about trauma and getting past that trauma, even on a pirate ship. They have been through two very different ways of living and they have to get used to each other again. But it's also a family that was separated, and becoming one family again is painful."

Discusses bringing characters back - "We could bring Calico Jack back, who, if you remember, was hit by a cannonball last season. Anyone who is that fun to play with and wants to keep playing, you always find a way to bring them back."

Polygon - Oct 14, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season arc and how keeping them apart with some plot device was never in the cards - "at the end of the first season, they're 14-year-olds, emotionally. In this season, it's more like they’re in their late 20s."

Discussing New Zealand production and ensemble cast writing - "It's pretty organic, because as we're going through and tracking everybody's journey for the season, we're watching the thing that holds us together — what stage of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship are we in? Because the overarching arc is, are these guys going to learn how to settle into a relationship?"

"The second season is more overtly about romance, and more a relationship story."

Energizing aspect of fan reaction

S3 is about "love is work"

Gizmodo - Oct 16, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

About the story - "I want to see them become a functional couple or fail to become a functional couple," Jenkins said. "Those are the most interesting parts of the show."

Discusses fandom engagement - "...ultimately the writers are also "the fans in the room." He goes on to say that, "We're fans of the world. We're writing fanfic about our own characters, our own worlds… It's paid fanfic, but it's fanfic." He gives another example: "If you're writing a season of Succession, you're writing fanfic Succession. You're just getting paid to do it. We, as writers–" it's clear that he's not just talking about the writers in the writers room, "become fans of the world and we all have things we want to see these characters do. What we do is not that different."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Discusses Zheng Yi Sao

Villains of the series - There are a lot of new villains this season, but, Jenkins says, ultimately, "the antagonist on this show is normalcy… These pirates have a way of life that they're not finding in normal life. They've found a way to live and support each other and be there for each other. And that's always threatened by these larger, tyrannical forces that want to shut them down."

Post 2x06 - 2x07

Mashable - Oct 19, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discussing drag performance in 2x06

"It is nice to see with Izzy's arc, where he finally breaks through whatever he's been doing to himself. He lets himself have that moment, which I just love. It resonates for Izzy, and I think it resonates for Con. Just personally, it made me feel good to see how it turned out."

Consequence - Oct 19, 2023 - with Liz Shannon Miller - Link

Discusses intent for romance - "...telling a love story in a serialized medium like television has its perils, largely because it's tough to know how much you can draw out any unresolved tension. "I think we take it episode by episode and we try to not piss people off in taking too long and doing double beats and triple beats," Jenkins says. "You can only do Will They or Won’t They for so long. Then you have to deepen it.""

Discusses pirate setting - "The emphasis on relationships also fits into the show's high-seas setting, which Jenkins finds similar to post-apocalyptic narratives. "It is a little bit like you're doing Mad Max, except there's relationships," he says. "Stuff's shitty, so you gotta try to find some joy. Of course, people are going to have a need for each other in these extreme circumstances, and I like the idea of these characters finding some level of a healthy relationship in these extreme circumstances.""

Discusses Jim x Archie

Discusses 3-season arc

Polygon - Oct 21, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discussing gender and power dynamics in Jackie x Swede / Zheng x Oluwande / Blackbeard x Stede + A Star is Born aspect

Jim not being jealous of Oluwande - "I think that relationship was always seen in the room as a friend relationship that got romantic."

About adding a villain - "I think a lot of the internal forces in Our Flag are the villains." + "I think this is a story about the age of piracy coming to an end. This way of life is coming to an end. And every Western that's good is that story: This way of life we made is coming to an end, and it can't last. […] I think every story about outlaws is about trying to preserve a way of life against normative forces that are kind of fascistic."

Historical accuracy - "The balance of the show is 90% ignoring history, and then 10%, bring it in, whenever we're like, Ah, gotta move the story forward! Remember, the English are out there, and they're really bad!"

Post 2x08

AV Club - Oct 26, 2023 - with Saloni Gajjar - Link

Killing Izzy was always the plan - "We wanted to show the depth of that character. Izzy is one of my favorites. He's like middle management who is in a sort of love triangle [in season one]."

Discusses how they really wanted the happy ending for S2 - "I think with season one's end, it was a gamble to leave it the way it was. Everybody stomached through it. Now if it turned out they didn't want us to make more, I just didn't want to have another story where the same-sex love story ends in tragedy, unrequited love, or if one or both of them are being punished."

Discusses S2 progressing the 3-season romance - "They’re a couple who is like in their late twenties right now as opposed to being teens at the end of season one." + "It was an interesting tension of, which one gives up their dream? A lot of times in relationships questions can come up, like who is going to give up on their dream to take care of the kids? Obviously, no one wants to, but someone ends up giving up more than they want to at some point. What's wonderful about a mature romance, and what I'd want to see more of in season three, is Ed and Stede making these tough decisions." + progressing past the getting together point

Discusses parallels, Republic of Pirates, and Zheng Yi Sao

Short bit about fan response

Collider - Oct 26, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses Ed leaving fishing - "I like that he had a little prima donna moment where he thought he could go and be a simple man, and then it's revealed that he really isn't a simple man; he's a complicated, fussy, moody guy. No, he's not gonna be able to catch fish for a living. For him to be told that, "At your heart, you're a pirate. You have to go back and do it," he doesn't want that to be true, but it was true."

Discusses Izzy's speech to Ricky - "I wanted to give Izzy a proper eulogy for himself. He gives a eulogy for himself, but it felt true writing it."

Discusses Izzy's death scene - "In a way, it's very much for Ed, that speech. The "we were Blackbeard" is claiming that he is also Blackbeard, that Blackbeard is not just Ed’s creation, and I like that for him, too, because he's worked so hard for that — and then just to say, "You can give it up." There can never be a Blackbeard again as far as Izzy's concerned because he's dying, and they did that together."

Discusses Republic of Pirates / music parallels from premier to finale

Discusses finale wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the season, which is the real term they had for marrying crew members. And yeah, they've always been in relief to Stede and Ed, and they're a little bit ahead of Stede and Ed in how much they can talk about things. So to have a bunch of family things in the season, like a funeral and a wedding, and have the parents kind of watch the kids sail away, felt right, and all of those things seem to work well together and build on each other."

Discusses retirement ending - "That will-they-or-won't-they is interesting to a point, but the real meat of it is always like, "Can they make the relationship, and can they do better than Anne and Mary?""

"Frenchie's in charge of the Revenge" + teases Stede struggling to give it up

EW.com - Oct 26, 2023 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses Izzy's death and telling Con - "It feels like the logical end of Izzy's arc. It's heartbreaking to me because he's my favorite." + "I told him in the middle of shooting because I didn't want him to find out at the table read, obviously. I also didn't want it to leak. He was lovely about it."

Discusses Izzy's final arc - "You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen."

Discusses the happy ending intent - "With this season starting so dark, I kind of wanted to reward them for the work that they've done and the character growth that they've had. I wanted to leave them in a place where they're really going to try and make this work. I don't think it's going to be easy for them, necessarily. They're both still immature."

Discusses the wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the second season, and pretty quickly we landed on Lucius and Black Pete. It seems like they were ready for that. We made up a ceremony and everything, where they call each other mateys, and it was just fun to make our own version of a pirate wedding ceremony."

Discusses potential S3 and Frenchie's Revenge - "But it felt like a good place to end the second season. It felt like a contrast to the first season. If it turns out we don't make any more, I'm comfortable with that being a resting place."

Variety - Oct 26, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

S3 endpoint - "I love things in threes," he says. "That first act, second act, third act structure is so satisfying when it is done well, and you don't overstay your welcome. I think this world of the show is a big world, and if the third season is successful, we could go on in a different way. But I think for the story of Stede and Ed, that is a three-season story."

Discusses the draw of a "Golden Age" and it's ending

Talks about father figure Izzy and wanting a real sense of loss - "There is a nice parallel to have Ed treat him so badly at the beginning of the season and then come all the way around to where Izzy is this sort of father figure he doesn’t want to lose — because Ed usually kills his father figures."

Gizmodo - Oct 26, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Teasing future Izzy - "Jenkins looked slightly sad himself, saying that "Ghosts exist in this world." I told him not to make promises he couldn't keep."

"Jenkins said that he doesn't see Izzy as a pure antagonist in season one because on some level… Izzy was right in his hesitations about Stede."

Discussing Con O'Neill & Rhys Darby acting

Jenkins confirms the season was always 8 episodes due to budget cuts

About S2 finale vs S3 - "The first season ends on such a downer, so it made sense to end the second season in a kinder spot." + "I think there's plenty of story left for season three, but I think that it was important to end this as if it was the end of the show, and on upbeat note and avoid the kind of "kill your gays" trope. I don't want to see Stede and Ed punished for giving it a go. I want to see them really say, 'yeah, we’re going to we're going to try to have a relationship'."

Teases S3 revenge against Ricky and going to the Americas

Vanity Fair - Oct 26, 2023 - with Sarah Catherall - Link

About the ending - "It's bittersweet. There's death and there's the rebirth of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship; there's a funeral, there's a wedding, and the idea that this family is going to keep fighting even as they lose members. And then it's about belonging to something." + "A lot of times, with this narrative of characters, same-sex relationships end on a dour, downbeat note, where one of them dies and it's unrequited or it's unrealized; something horrible happens and they're punished in a way. So it was important to leave it open and a lot more show to go, but also leave it in a place where it's happy."

Discusses Izzy as a mentor / father figure - "We felt like Izzy's story had reached its conclusion, where we put him through enough. And then there was the realization that he is kind of a mentor to Blackbeard and that he is kind of a father figure to Blackbeard." + "And it's also a pirate show, so he's got to die."

Discusses filming challenges - "It's a big show; it's basically a one-hour show that we're doing on a half-hour budget."

Discusses adding Zheng Yi Sao

Is the show a queer romance? - "For this show, it's important to me just to write a really bold-bodied romantic show that happens to be between two characters of the same sex. I think that the story beats don't matter, because if you've been in love and you've been hurt and you met someone you love—hopefully we all know what those feelings are."

Blackbeard's arc in S2 - "...the second season is about Blackbeard's midlife crisis. And then when they both have their midlife crises, they can open a B&B together." + "I don't think Stede and Blackbeard are ready to be married. They're emotionally saying: 'Let's give this a go.'"

Discusses historical piracy as "counterculture" that's been straightwashed and whitewashed

Did he feel responsibility to the fan community? - "As opposed to responsibility, it feels more like relief—that people feel seen and they feel good about it and they liked what we did. And so it feels like, Okay, somebody's out there and wants the show. The makeup of the writers room looks a lot like the makeup of the fan base. So as long as we're true to our stories in the writers room, I think we just feel excited that there's somebody waiting on the other end to enjoy it."

Paste Magazine - Oct 26, 2023 - with Tara Bennett - Link

Discusses whether fandom expectations felt weighty - "I think particularly for this season, that "bury your gays" thing… I didn't want to end on a downbeat for Ed and Stede. We did that in the first season. I like that there's a lot of different flavors. It's even a little melancholy because the Republic of Pirates got blown up. But there's still more good things."

Discusses production and plotting - "I wanted to start at the Republic of Pirates this season and end at the Republic of Pirates. And I knew I wanted the Republic of Pirates to be destroyed, ultimately. Within that, we are making a one-hour show on a half hour budget, on a half hour schedule."

Discusses planning the ending - "In terms of ending this season, it all felt right just in talking through it when we were in the room. It felt pretty intuitive. When you get to the third act of the story, things kind of settle in. There's gonna be a funeral. We always knew we wanted a wedding at the end of the second season. And I knew that I wanted Stede and Ed to start an inn together. So once you have those beats, it's kind of locked in."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "It's kind of a strange arc in that I knew we were going to put him through all these things, and I knew he would ultimately die. But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn't really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they've been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy's parental figure on some level. And he's one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that's how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con."

On leaving open for S3 - "I don't think it was a very hard thing to do. I think it was more that I felt a responsibility to leave Ed and Stede in a good place, at least for now. It's not gonna go well. They're not going to run a business well. Ed's too much of a talker. Stede can't focus. It's gonna be challenging."

Vulture - Oct 28, 2023 - with Sophie Brookover - Link

Discussing Izzy as a "father figure" and his S2 send-off being a priority

Meaning of piracy - "...what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy."

Re: Con O'Neill & Izzy's death - "I had to tell him about halfway through the season"

Third season about the work of a relationship between still damaged main characters

Discusses middles as about change and transitions, and wanting characters to change instead of reset, have them experience permanent consequences

About the final scene - "...Ed and Stede as the parents kind of watching the kids take the ship. Frenchie's the captain now..."

Objective of the crew - "...have had terrible things happen to them at the hands of colonial forces, so they want some payback. Party, plunder, and payback — the three P's."

Metro Weekly - Nov 1, 2023 - with Randy Shulman - Link

Discusses historical premise of S1 and easing into the romance

Discusses S2 genre - "In the second season, it was great because we know it's a romance and we can lead with that. It's a workplace show essentially. I wanted it to be more in the vein of early episodes of Grey's Anatomy or something where there are all these relationships on those shows. That's what you’re following — relationships and friendships that are taking place in a hospital, procedural. That's Grey's Anatomy. This is less procedural for the pirate stuff — and you need the pirate stuff."

Discusses not being into pirates - "But I'm like you. I'm not a big pirate person. In general, it's a big creaky genre that's hard to budge" + "Pirates of the Caribbean, those movies are great. That's not necessarily what I hunger to see, but in that genre, it's great. You're not going to beat that, especially on something that's lower budget. We've seen a lot of this stuff, so it's fun to take it then and don't do any of that stuff."

Discusses adapting historical piracy - "You don't want to see them punch down. You don't want to see them do terrible things to people who don't deserve it, which is not what they really did. So, in the show's world, I think piracy is like a stand-in for something. I think it's a stand-in for being an iconoclast and an outsider and queer in some ways and just different." + "Yeah, I mean, the British are there to be Stormtroopers, or Nazis in an Indiana Jones movie. I mean, they're in there to die essentially."

Discusses diversity staffing

Discusses performative masculinity

Discusses Izzy's death, happy endings, and openness to S3

[princesssarisa]

I just came across a YouTube video complaining about the changes made to the musical of Wicked from the original book.

One of its main arguments is that in the musical, Glinda is too easily forgiven – both by Elphaba and by the show's narrative – for working with the Wizard, not to mention the other morally questionable things she does.

Now, I haven't read the book, or analyzed every word of the musical's script and lyrics, but I'm not sure if I agree with that claim or not.

I agree with what @cto10121 has written in the past, that maybe the musical focuses too much on Glinda when it's supposed to be Elphaba's story, but I don't think the show glosses over Glinda's flaws or bad decisions. I've always thought she was a very morally gray character who has a redemption arc in the end. And she most definitely pays a hard price for her mistakes, ending up in power but all alone on a personal level, thinking the two people she loved most are dead because of her.

But just from scrolling a little on both Tumblr and YouTube, I think the musical's fandom might idealize Glinda, whether the musical itself does or not. I don't know how widespread it is, but I've definitely felt as if the fandom idealizes her entire relationship with Elphaba, and they do leap to defend her whenever someone misguidedly calls her "the real wicked witch"... sometimes with defenses I don't buy.

Again, again, and again, I've heard people say "The message is that there are two sides to every story and no one is all good or all bad."

(Which of course is true to an extent, but which IMHO, paints false moral equivalency between Elphaba's side of the story and both Glinda's and the Wizard's.)

I've also seen "The whole point is that Elphaba starts out as the heroine while Glinda starts out as a mean girl, but Glinda becomes a better person while Elphaba becomes a worse person over the course of the story, until they become the characters we know from The Wizard of Oz. Ultimately Glinda is the more heroic one."

(That's... not quite the way I would describe their arcs.)

And, most thought-provokingly of all, I've seen this:

"Glinda deserves more respect for her intelligence. At first we're made to think she's a dumb blonde, but it turns out that she's very clever and shrewd, and her claim that a good image is what matters most in society turns out to be totally right. It's by working within the system and pleasing the Wizard and the people of Oz that Glinda gains power, which lets her oust the Wizard and Morrible in the end, while Elphaba's rebellion crashes and burns."

Even if part of the show's message is "Society values a good image more than real merit or truth," aren't we meant to view that fact as a bad thing that needs to change, rather than admiring Glinda for knowing it all along and benefitting from it?

This reminds me of commentary I've read about Amy March from Little Women. A character who has a lot in common with Glinda in some ways, though without the political aspect. I like Amy and I don't think she deserves the hate she traditionally gets from Jo fans, but some attempts to defend her annoy me. Namely the fans who praise her for conforming to society better than Jo does: i.e. "Amy is the smartest, most mature March sister because she knows how to please her social betters and make the system work in her favor – unlike Jo, whose rebellious ways get her nowhere and who needs to learn to be a proper docile lady for her own good." Again, I like Amy as a character, but as a neurodivergent feminist who relates to Jo's independence and her failure to conform, I don't like that talk.

And Amy doesn't serve a fascist regime.

I'd like to know what bigger Wicked fans than I am think of all this. Does the show absolve Glinda too much, or if not, does the fandom? Or do both the show and fandom have a more-or-less accurate view of both her flaws and her virtues?

[l-in-the-light]

Thanks for your answer 😊🙏 Another question that came to my mind when I read your post about Law liking boys: what do you think about the LawxRobin scenes where he tells her about his "D" (and that he trusts her) and the one after wano victory where they go to underground together?

You're welcome! Also a warning, this is another post replying to multiple asks at once :D

Law x Robin, huh. Sure, let's elaborate on it, but just so you know, my view on them differs greatly from how fandom tends to see their Wano interactions. I spent a lot of time analyzing it in my head (way more than any sane person would) so my initial reaction of "awww so cute he trusts Robin" kinda faded to almost nothing now haha. Just like I stated in that post, I think it was mostly about business. He wanted to know what the D. stands for so he approached the person who was the most likely to know some more information. Sadly, he didn't really gain any new knowledge. As much as I love that scene because it feels like Law is trusting Robin there, I think we shouldn't overestimate it in general. He basically offered a trade (I tell you my hidden name, you tell me something back in exchange - favour for a favour! It's his usual MO with strangers) and I doubt he would do that without any good reason for it. That scene has a different vibe from the one in which he shares about Corazon to Luffy, he's actually opening up and he doesn't expect anything back for it (you can argue he does that so Luffy understands fighting Doflamingo is personal for Law and to leave it up to him, but it's still just for that - so that Luffy understands. It's not a trade). With Robin he seems rather guarded when comparing the two scenes together.

I have my suspicions about their talk there. Law is using veeeery vague words when he claims he shares the info "because he trusts Robin". What he actually says is just this: "omae dakara hanashita" which means literally "I told you because it's you" and you can interpret it any way you like, Robin took it a sign of trust and thanked him, but it's so vague it can also mean something like "I tell this ONLY to you" and that smells of a hidden reason to me. But of course it fits Law's withdrawn personality to not say the words like "trust" straightforwardly, right? But in his scene with Luffy he is kinda openly emotional in contrast - he literally tells him Corazon was the person he loved who gave him his life and that he is deeply indebted to him. Law didn't use many words, but all those words carried emotional weight, unlike the vague phrase he used with Robin. But anyway it wouldn't make sense to say my conspiracy theory here without explaining loose links from Water 7. Also I'm like 50-50 on that and I really think fandom wouldn't want to get spoiled this way in case I'm right.

Their randezvous in the secret chamber doesn't strike me as romantic honestly (I know people love it just because Robin and Law are alone together and oh just few inches from each other, and interpret what Robin says as teasing, but I need more than that for romantic vibes, sorry :D). It basically starts with Robin accusing Law of being a hyena (at least that's how he subjectively felt about that! and she didn't deny) and he gets back at her for it when he shambled only himself to that window (he even keeps his sour face on when she's complaining it's unfair, he doesn't even want to tell her it's a payback haha). Yes, he's that petty. Don't you like it in him? I certainly do, he's so hilarious.

Anyway, the whole scene is just them sharing business together, and it's slightly hinted that Law was kinda eavesdropping on them before he actually joined in, that's why Robin's reaction might have been that strong and a bit hostile. Robin prides herself in being sensitive to people around and their intentions, picking up on the slightest hints other people don't (like she said in Water 7, it's her survival's instinct), but she couldn't sense Law so ofc that would rub her the wrong way. Anime especially did a great job at showing it, with Law appearing out of nowhere exactly when Robin is gonna go down the hidden stairs. A timing a bit too perfect, eh? I wouldn't call Law a hyena (he had perfectly rational reason to be there!), but he sure was so damn sneaky and smooth about it.

Anyway, I guess my point is: those two are very guarded people, both dislike to show a moment of weakness because they know it can result in deadly situation. And they're also both very business-oriented. If there was any scene between Robin and Law that showed them as closer to each other, it would be all the way back in Dressrosa.

Just look at the mutual respect they show each other here! Law isn't acting freaked out by Robin's powers (because why would he, right? His powers are also quite peculiar. But I bet that earned him extra sympathy points here. How many times Robin heard it as a child that she's a monster just because she has devil fruit's powers) but also immediately worries about Robin and Usopp's safety instead of his own. Then he sits down to talk with Robin, just so they're more or less on eye-level, that's really considerate of him, especially in such a tense/crisis situation. And at the end of their talk Robin tosses him a "good luck" (in Japanese apparently it's a different phrase, one you say before a battle), and Law says "same to you" which is the closest he ever gets to say something even slightly akin to a greeting in the whole series. Soon afterwards Robin notices the ground shaking and worries for Law, because she knows it's a sign that he's in a tough fight. This is a huge step for Robin to worry about someone she actually suspected of betraying Luffy in Punk Hazard. She was always guarded whenever Law so much as appeared on screen.

This is also a great scene between them. Robin can't understand Law's dedication to Luffy, she clearly thought Law is indeed seeing their cooperation as only business-style alliance, they share a common goal, Law shouldn't feel like he owes anything to Luffy, and so she tries to appeal to Law's sense of reason here. She does it because she's concerned about him, she reacts really strongly to see him defeated (he definitely has her respect for his strength and skills to manage crisis!), and even more concerned when she notices his severed arm. She tries to make him think straight so he takes care of himself firstmost, but it's not for herself that she's saying it: it's for Luffy. I think Robin realized in Punk Hazard already that Luffy is really attached to Law, so of couse she wouldn't want to see Luffy sad if Law loses his life here, especially not after Luffy entrusted Law to her. She must be really taken aback with Law's final answer. I wonder what she might be thinking about Luffy's importance to Law now, because I would say she kinda caught a wind or at least a hint that Law cares more deeply than it seems at first glance.

Honestly every single one of their interactions in Dressrosa is much more meaningful than anything they shared in Wano, where both of them are just honestly clamming up again. I mean, there is no battle going on anymore (they had conversations in Wano before the plan was set into motion and after the battle has ended), and fighting together tends to bring people momentarily closer. But we shouldn't forget that in daily circumenstances Robin will still keep her guard up and so will Law, because trust in an ally in a battle is different than being emotionally open to a friend. They're both smart and they're not gonna pretend that just because Luffy calls Law his friend, that for Robin alliance means friendship as well. This also stays in line with what I believe is quite realistic when two very traumatized people having issues to open up actually meet and interact. Law might know about Ohara from the newspapers desciribing Enies Lobby incident, but I doubt Robin knows about Flevance or would know to connect Law to it in any way (fics often make her almost clairvoyant how she figures him out, but nah, that's just wishful thinking). That shared traumatic experience could bring them closer, but I think for now it's mostly one-sided, because Robin has no way to know.

Damn, I had a lot to say about all of that, haha. I hope you had fun reading about their interactions from a different angle!

Personally, I think Law x Luffy dynamics work better overall.

Law x Robin:

two very traumatized people

both don't open up and keep their guards around strangers

none can cheer the other because they both have pretty gloom personalities

they like cute things

share same or similar sense of humour (though Robin's more morbid)

both very serious

both good listeners and observant

both independant

both like to tease/stress Usopp (they could form a "tormenting Usopp fanclub", they tease him out of affection ofc)

both like their peace and quiet but also to watch other people cause chaos from afar (unless someone provokes Law)

both cling to cheerful people, both remember their mentor's smile

Etc. I think they would be great best buddies in the longer run and understand each other on a special level.

Law x Luffy:

both like to cheer up people (Luffy's the ultimate person to cheer anyone up. And it brings this side of Law to the light of the day too)

both are reckless little shits liking to cause chaos and beat people up for hurting people dear to them, both don't know when to give up

friendship is a serious matter and so is trust for both of them

one constantly smiles outwardly, the other inwardly

they both know the pain of losing their most important person

one is a younger sibling, the other the older sibling personality type

they understand each other without words

take each other seriously (and almost no one takes Luffy seriously)

both are stubborn mules with competetive side

overdedicated to protect others and not care enough about their own wellbeing in the process

remind each other of people they once loved the most and which they lost

In the longer run those two will cover up for the other's weakness and could literally turn the world upside down together while laughing/smirking.

Summing it up, Robin and Law are similar souls, going side by side. Luffy and Law instead have each other's backs, complementing each other. I feel like it's really a matter of preference and I sway towards Luffy x Law, their interactions are just so fun. But I do enjoy Law x Robin, just more as a friendship. Tbh both work as friendships the best and I tend to prefer them this way. I just think the friendship Law and Luffy have going on is something extraordinary on a whole different level. They're behaving with each other in ways they don't really share with others.

I think it would. But it doesn't have to be his biological family for him to be happy, you know. Whether his partner is a woman or a man, whether his own kid or more like picked up and adopted, it would make him happy just the same. He has already his adopted family in his Hearts Pirates and Wolf. He definitely is already part of Strawhats adopted family as well. And who knows to how many other "found families" he can belong from now on! He deserves a family, he actually deserves more than one that he can call his own.

There is lately one scenario I'm especially fond of actually. If Law becomes a Strawhat officially and Bonney will be also adopted in the crew as a sort of "next generation", he would totally act like a father/older sibling towards her. Sure, he would still act annoyed, worry all the time, but deep down he would love every second of it. He could finally be a brother to a kid that reminds him of Lammy. Life denied him that before so it would mean so much for his healing progress if he could reclaim it. I think as a father he would still act a lot like an older sibling actually. The same way Cora-san is also hard to classify, was he an older sibling, a father figure, a younger sibling, a bit of each combined? Anyway, I'm sure Law would try to live up to his caretaker and return the favour to someone else.

No matter how it would happen, yes, having his family, found or biological, would make him happy. I truly believe it's that one thing in his life he truly wants. Of course, once he has one, he would be worrying and afraid of losing them. Perhaps in that case Strawhats would be his best choice; they're very strong people capable of taking care of themselves, so he could perhaps learn to believe in them, that they wouldn't kill themselves off the moment he takes his eyes off of them. He would still worry a lot and protect them, but at least maybe he wouldn't self-explode in the process. He probably still will.

Indeed it has been asked before :) but no worries, I will link you to the answer so you can read all upon that: https://www.tumblr.com/l-in-the-light/760279386040795136 Enjoy! Sadly I don't have any new thoughts regarding that, otherwise I would add some now :3 Maybe just one: it doesn't matter if it's friendship, romantic relationship, the progress would be similar in this case, or at least I believe that.

[maxdibert]

The Marauders fandom is one that someone could easily enter only to quickly lose interest, and that's exactly how I feel right now. I “joined” (or rather got dragged into) it around late September or early October of THIS YEAR, drawn in by the excitement of everyone creating their own stories for the characters. As someone who also loves to write, I found it fascinating and immediately felt a connection to the community.

The biggest mistake of my life has been getting involved in this fandom. The level of toxicity is almost shocking. It baffles me that many of the members are four years older than I am, able to pay taxes and even vote. I had hoped that their age would mean they could engage in meaningful discussions, conduct thorough research, analyze characters effectively, and write about them with depth. But I’ve been let down repeatedly.

First, it was Jegulus, a ship I couldn't understand because, I admit, I am someone who takes canon a little seriously even when I'm making fanon things, and these two do NOT seem like they'd work well together. Then, it was like characters that are known to be BAD PEOPLE were suddenly cool kids that were either gay, twinks or just given this sob story so people could like them (Regulus, Sirius, Barty Crouch Jr, Remus, James, hell, even Evan and Mulciber...). Next, the girls were thrown to the side and given WLW ships just so they could stay out of the way of MLM ships.

What finally pushed me over the edge was the overwhelming disdain for Severus Snape. The constant name-calling, the people who genuinely believed that being hung upside down for humiliation wasn't a form of sexual assault, and the accusations of him stalking or being obsessed with Lily—all while completely overlooking the fact that he represents one of the truest reflections of a guy clearly needing HELP and STABILITY. The idea that "he deserved to be bullied" really stung, and it feels like I’m constantly being pushed away for simply admitting that his character means everything to me. After all, he offers me something to delve into, to grasp and wrestle with in my thoughts. He's also realistic, because wouldn't you be miserable too if you had to grow up in a domestic abusive situation, go to school only to get bullied??

How can I come back to a fandom after so long, happy to finally become social again after being socially anxious, only for the fandom to be crap? How can I look up to anyone my age and think they know what they're doing when THIS is how they act? I understand it's fiction; I know that I shouldn't be pissed because it is a fanon-based community, BUT fiction and reality can cross over and over and over again. There's a point that some people need to realize that whatever they say or do with a fictional character will mirror how they'll react to people like that in the real world, even if they don't notice they're doing it.

(P.S. - I don't have good grammar, so this might be hard to read...sorry!)

Honestly, I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience. I guess for those who also enjoy Severus as a character or are his fans, being in that fandom must be a nightmare. I mean, I’ve literally seen them fangirl over absolutely EVERY character except him—I have no idea what their deal is. Some people say it’s because adult Severus is unpleasant, but, hello? Barty Crouch Jr.? Seriously? That man not only tortured a couple into insanity but also locked a man in a trunk for months and triggered the son of the couple he drove insane. To me, it all boils down to beauty privilege and classism. What I don’t understand is looking down on people who are in that fandom but also happen to be Snape fans. I mean, there are plenty of people within Snapedom who, for example, like the Marauders or are fans of Sirius or Lily, and I’ve never seen anyone give them crap for it. I wouldn’t give anyone crap for that.

In fact, my issue with the Marauders' fandom isn’t that they like the Marauders but how they try to justify the unjustifiable, whitewash their actions, or completely destroy their canon personalities.

Anyway, I feel really bad because, in the end, people use the internet to pass the time, have fun, vent, or escape the real world, and it’s such a shame that they’re met with rejection instead. But, honestly, what can you expect from people who minimize or whitewash bullying other than more bullying?

[thunderandsage]

arcane, shipping and “word of god” within queer readings

tldr: “word of god” vs “death of the author” through the lens of jayvik

so first of all, here’s linke’s now-infamous reaction to jayvik:

first of all, there’s the classic mistake of conflating asexuality with aromanticism (they can and do overlap, but having one does not automatically mean the other)

to be clear: asexual viktor is not a bad concept. i’ve seen arguments for and against it that bring up valid points (there’s also the question of whether it’s a stereotype to make the disabled character asexual, but i’m not disabled, so i don’t really know the fine details of that debate?), but the questionable thing here is that it seems to have been brought up specifically against a jayvik interpretation

aside from this i’ve seen twitter screenshots floating around where it looks like linke is arguing with people about jayvik? idk—

sigh.

i’m not even going to get into this.

ironically, and unfortunately for linke, a piece of media the fans drew an immediate parallel to is the ending of the magnus archives with two of the main characters jon and martin dying together to save the universe, and they are both a canonical couple and jon is explicitly confirmed to be ace within the universe by dialogue between characters

amanda overton, luckily, is a breath of fresh air:

the first part of what overton says is similar to linke—written with a brotherly love, etc.—but while linke uses this as a “gotcha!” moment to shut down discussion, overton rightly recognizes that “other people give it their own meaning”—that art exists as dialogue with the audience where intent and interpretation do not necessarily align

honestly, what strikes me the most when contrasted with linke is the lack of possessiveness here, as linke clings to the original intentions of the writers like a lifeline whereas overton has set her creation free into the wild with serenity

which can also be rephrased to mean that linke believes in the power of word of god

so word of god is extremely interesting when it comes to the history of queer media

from the korrasami being confirmed via word of god because of network restrictions that meant they had their hands tied when it came to the text of the show, but still making a huge step in the direction of explicit queer rep

to hannigram, where the ship has an incredibly solid textual base within the universe (with “is hannibal in love with me?” “yes” being actual lines), but shipping wiki still has it as “canon (confirmed by bryan fuller)” as if because it’s a queer couple, it needs that extra layer of assurance when for a straight ship it would have less scrutiny

so these two examples have been instances of positive word of god—cases where the creators intentionally wrote in queerness

and media creators have not always been so supportive—just look at the 2010s epidemic of queerbaiting

BUT HERE’S THE THING: the “word of god” stands in near direct contrast with another incredibly useful tool—“death of the author,” which posits that authors essentially lose authority over the meaning of their work and that the work can be analyzed contradicting the authorial intent if there is textual evidence to support it (grossly oversimplified)

essentially, the “death of the author” approach happened a lot in fandoms that had “hostile” creators (moff and gatis mocking fans for shipping, both within and without the show sherlock, for example)

and the thing about fandoms is that it’s great when the creator is on our side! but if not? we’re going to be just fine on our own, we’ve survived like that for decades

and here comes 2024, a year rich with queer content and the practice of queer readings having lost a fair bit of the stigma that was long associated with it (with special mention to the good omens and ofmd fan readings before and after the episodes with kissing were released)

and linke is… still stuck in a 2010s mindset??? like i’m not sure how to explain it more elegantly. do not be like linke

in contrast, amanda overton has the much more nuanced view of fandom and fan interpretations, where she can both acknowledge authorial intent and that differing interpretations will exist and that they still carry weight. be like amanda overton

[torialefay]

🌕 Moon in Libra ♎️

bangchan as your boyfriend series!!! (pt. 4)

(based on astrology)

✨bangchan x reader (f); fluff & sad chan :(

✨word count: ~3.5k

✨4th part in a series!!! together, let’s take a look into chan’s natal chart to see what type of boyfriend he would be!

✨i will give a synopsis of what each chart placement means throughout the series (for all my non-astrology friends out there <3) and how that would affect channie in a relationship. head to my masterlist to check out the rest of the series <3

✨ author’s notes:

(1) i am doing brief (just bullet points/highlights) astrological compatibility readings if anyone wants one! if you’re interested, message me your birth date, time, and location OR lmk your placements. i’m gonna limit the reading to include you x 1 skz member only! just specify who you’d like.

(2) the aspects in this reading are based solely on my opinions and interpretations! nothing about a person is set in stone simply because of astrology. please don’t use anything i say as canon :)

(3) there is mention of another fandom in a not so great light. this is purely fictional and no offense was meant by including them. it’s simply for the storyline.

✨warnings: none

✨tldr: chan just wants to be loved.

Moon in Libra:

The Moon represents the deepest parts of yourself, the parts you are usually not even cognizant of. It is the basic energy that resides within you and what you radiate in the most still of situations. Your moon sign usually controls you in ways you aren’t aware of and draws you to certain people that you cannot explain.

• Moon in Libra has a deep NEED for love and beauty in their lives. This can be seen in the deepest parts of them. They are able to see the beauty in every person, and usually can see each person as who they really are instead of the mask they are showing the world. Because of this, he prefers to get to know people well before pursuing them in a relationship.

• Moon in Libra also highlyyyy values balance and peace in their lives. If they suspect that you are bringing drama into their lives in any way, they will most likely (very kindly) cut you out of their life. They will feel bad about it, but they need to protect their peace in order to feel comfortable in the world.

• Because of Libra’s tendency to be people pleasers, they truly seek external validation… they can take criticism very harshly. They do not like the drama and do not want to be involved in a scandal of any kind. It can, in fact, crush them, but they are too self sacrificing to say anything. They just want to make sure that people are pleased with them and they will do whatever they must do to get that.

Chan’s Moon in Libra is also in the 6th house (the house of work, routines, and health)

• Because of this, the balance in his life likely plays a largeeee role in how he performs during the day in work, in carrying out his plans for the day, and in how healthy he is staying.

• His Venus (beauty, love, and sensuality) and Mars (aggression and resolution) are also in the 6th house, meaning that if any aspect of his romance, emotions, or conflict are out of whack, so is he. He simply cannot get his work done or perform well. He is too in his head. That makes him push even harder.

*Important tidbits I learned from analyzing Chan’s natal chart!!! If you take ANYTHING away from this series, please let it be this:*

• Chan has a Libra placement for his Moon (emotions), Sun (personality), and Mercury (communication). This makes him a SUPER LIBRA. He basically identifies with it on another level.

• Here’s the problem: Libras are totally giving of themselves. Completely. They quite literally turn into whoever you want them to be. Because of that, they can really struggle with self image, not only in terms of wanting to be seen in a good light, but most importantly from the perspective of not even knowing themselves.

• Since they don’t have any one SET personality that they present to everyone, they don’t know who they are. Not fully. They may have some idea. They may know that they love people and that they think they are good people, but when it comes down to it, they feel lost.

• So what happens when you have this Libra energy in Sun, Moon, and Mercury? You feel hollow.

• It is very likely that at the end of the day, when all is said and done, Chan feels like the shell of a person. He works so hard for everyone around him, but who is he without that? If he were on his own, and if he didn’t live to please others, who would he be? Nobody. There would be no person underneath the mask. And that scares the fuck out of him.

• He NEEDS to be needed. It isn’t that he likes the attention, but he needs it to survive. Because without it, he is nothing.

—————————————————————

Focusing in now on only the Libra Sun (personality) and Libra Moon (emotions) for Chan:

• As I’ve previously discussed a million times, Libra suns need to be liked. They need harmony and balance, and they feel this through blending fully with others.

• Libra MOONS on the other hand, have a deeper desire. They don’t necessarily want to be loved on what they do, but for who they are and the way they think. Libra moons truly believe that they ARE good people who want to help. Because of this, their harmony and balance instead comes from KNOWING they are good, so they shouldn’t care what other people think of them.

• This manifests in Chan as having this war within himself of caring so much about how other people see him vs. knowing that he shouldn’t give a fuck.

• But at the end of the day, he does give a fuck. And that kills him too.

• So now, not only does he feel hollow on the inside, but he also KNOWS that he cares too deeply about shit that doesn’t even matter. But he can’t. help. it.

• He lives by the mantra “Just enjoy”, because it is something he so badly wants to be able to do.

• He likely manifests this in severe anxiety and not being able to sleep because of it. Throwing himself into work, because who is he if not the producer that his fans know and love? Laughing as much as he can to attempt to fill up the void inside of him.

• He only knows himself in relation to others. The worst thing he could ever experience is being on his own.

• This is likely why he struggled so bad in his trainee days. When everyone else got cut and he was the only one left.

• I’ve heard him explain before that it was a very dark time in his life, and that Stray Kids coming into his life is the only reason he is alive today.

• He is not over-exaggerating. Stray Kids literally gives him life. Without them, he feels like he is nothing.

• He simply cannot exist without them.

—————————————————————————

The last thing that I will add:

• Chan wants SO BADLY to learn how to not give a fuck. He NEEDS someone who can teach him that.

• He NEEDS someone who can show him how to find himself. He NEEEDS someone who will see the parts of him that he cannot see.

• If he can find someone to do this, this person will be his soulmate, I promise you.

As your boyfriend:

• “Hey there, pretty girl.” “You look so beautiful today.” “How did I get to lucky?” Chan tells you these things every day, leaning in to peck your forehead. Words of affirmation are his love language, so he would make sure you got them constantly.

• If you’ve had a long week at work/school, Chan is taking you somewhere beautiful on the weekend. Somewhere that the two of you can enjoy the beauty and the calmness together. Aka, he’s definitely taking you to a giant botanical garden, just to walk around and look at the flowers together. Walking hand in hand, he’d make sure to take breaks occasionally to get a candid photo of how pretty you look with the flowers in the background. You’d wonder off to a tiny side path, taking you to a small fairy garden with lights and a small bench. You would sit, just admiring the lights. Even though you weren’t supposed to, Chan would pick a flower off of the ground next to him and trim it down to just the right length. He’d place it in your hair, resting in the crook of your ear. He’d giggle at how cute you looked. Just like a little garden fairy.

• Chan would adore being your center of attention. He says he doesn’t, but it absolutely makes his heart melt to know that you were thinking about him. Whether it’s a painting, a song, a poem, a muse in any form, his inner self can’t help but to feel so seen.

• He loves it when you obsess over him. No, like actually he loves it. Again, he says he doesn’t, but the way it makes him feel is like none other. The fact that you think that highly of him to pour your entire self into him fills him up with love to the very brim. And he would absolutely be the same with you.

• He LOVES when you ask for his help or his advice. If you ever include the phrase, “I just wanted to know your thoughts because I really value your opinion”, then boom, he’s in love. Feeling needed gives him purpose in life.

• He would adore when you would dress up for him. No occasion, just to look pretty for him. Even though he thinks you’re always beautiful, the fact that you put in extra effort just for him to have something pretty to look at would really make him feel loved. Bonus points if you tried a style or a new item that he talked about really liking.

• If he had a hard day at work and came home to a home-cooked meal and a warm bath waiting on him, he would probably get so excited he wouldn’t even make it to the bathtub, being too busy hugging you.

• Chan is absolutely the type to avoid drama, and especially avoid you having to get involved in any drama at all costs.

• But your boyfriend was no novice to how cruel the online communities could be towards him.

• The week’s newest scandal: that he was saying nasty things about ATEEZ behind their back.

• And damn, did he get a lot of flack.

• What was the proof you may ask?… A tweet. A fucking tweet some random account (that was created 7 hours ago) sent out saying that she had been behind him and heard him saying awful things while on the phone with a friend. As “proof”, she posted the back of a man’s body who had on a black beanie, black hoodie, and black sweatpants.

• You had to give it to her, that was the iconic Channie outfit.

• But what she failed to realize: your man is literally 171 cm… no way in hell is he towering over everyone else like in the picture she posted.

• STAY knew that, but you know how the internet goes. One bad word, and the world is trying to cancel you.

• Well that “you” is now Channie. There’s been an all out fan war between STAY and ATINY to the point that it is now trending worldwide. ATINY trying to trend “#bangchanisoverparty” and damn, it was kinda working.

• When you both saw, you talked to Chan about it. He assured you that he was fine and it was nothing to worry about. He knew who he was and that’s all that mattered. If things got out of hand, JYP would make an official statement saying that it was not him in the photo and they would investigate into the account that posted about it.

• You were so proud of your boyfriend for how much he had overcome to be able to feel that way. You knew he struggled with a lot, and although you were helping him, you were so happy knowing that he was okay.

• Well, until you woke up in the middle of the night to hearing Channie crying softly, lying in the spot next to you.

• You listened quietly, pretending to still be asleep, so you could check on your boyfriend while still allowing him to have his own space.

• Your heart almost shattered as you heard him start to actually sob, reaching his hand up to his mouth in order to stop any sound from coming out.

• Even in his most desperate hour, he didn’t want to wake you. He didn’t want you to know.

• So you just laid there, eyes darting off to focus on the moon, while your back was turned away from him. Listening. Just listening.

• After a couple of minutes, you heard the sobs start to resolve, and deep breaths in began. Good, he was finally starting to feel better.

• You heard the bed sheets rustle a bit as he made the tiniest, slowest movements to reach for his phone on the nightstand.

• You knew that’s what he had to have been reaching for, as you saw a quick, bright flash of light coming in from behind you. You relaxed into the mattress as you heard him typing in his passcode, hopefully to play some light, soothing music to fall asleep to. You didn’t hear anything for the next couple of minutes.

• Content that Chan had successfully cried himself to sleep, you rolled to your other side to curl your body into his. You wanted to feel the warmth of his back pressed up against your chest. To rest your hand at the nape of his neck and hold on for as long as you could.

• To your surprise, your roll over did land you on top of Channie, but a very much awake and very much still on his phone Channie.

• He looked just as startled to see you, dropping his phone down onto his chest. His eyes were red and puffy. The rest of his face followed suit. You hated to see him cry, but you had to admit that he looked like an adorable little fluffball like this, especially with the curly hair all fluffed out from “tossing and turning” you guessed.

• “What are you doing up?” you whispered, playing dumb. You relaxed your hand on top of his chest and heaved your face down into him. You lifted your eyes up to look at his. So beautiful in the silver moon’s light.

• “I thought I heard my phone go off,” he lied.

• “Oh yeah? Who would be calling in the middle of the night?”

• “Minho. He probably went out for a few drinks, I don’t know. I didn’t answer it and was gonna text.” Damn, this boy was gonna do everything in his power to not admit to you that he was just crying.

• “Okay baby, let me know what he says,” you nuzzled into him, ready to watch this shit show of a lie go down.

• You watched as he quickly snatched up his phone, bringing it to rest right in front of his face. Not before you saw what he had actually been doing though.

• He’d been on twitter reading through comments. “#bangchanisoverparty” was pasted into the search bar at the top.

• You felt your heart shrivel up. Why does he do this to himself? Why does he care so much about what other people think about him?

• You sat and stared off, not sure if you should mention anything. You didn’t want to make things worse. But then again, what kind of girlfriend lets her boyfriend lay there and cry himself to death?

• “There,” Chan said, turning his phone off and laying it back on the bedside table. “I texted to see what he needs. Hopefully he replies back soon so I don’t fall back asleep and miss it.” This man is one good ass liar. Kinda scary now that you think about it, but whatever, that’s besides the point.

• “You’re a good friend Channie,” you scooted up to make sure your face was resting into the side of his neck. One arm extended around him to cover him in a light hug, and you just held him there for what seemed like an eternity. Finally, your eyelids got heavy again and you fluttered them closed.

• No more than 10 seconds later, they shot back open. You had felt a singular drop of water hit your face. A tear. He couldn’t lie now.

• You raised up to be above Chan, one hand still over his torso, and the other propping you up on your elbow. There were a few stray tears covering each cheek.

• The one hand moved up his body and slowly wiped at the tears on one side, making his perfect complexion visible once again. You kissed over the area with a touch as gentle as a feather.

• “What’s wrong baby?” you whispered while your head was just over top of his own.

• “Nothing baby, please go back to sleep,” he choked out, letting a light sniffle escape him.

• “I’m not going back to sleep until you talk to me.”

• “Please, y/n. Please just go back to sleep.”

• “No. Talk to me. Why were you on twitter?”

• He looked mortified. He didn’t answer. He just laid there, looking off to the side with an expression on his face like he could start crying again at any moment.

• You relaxed off of your elbow and sunk back into him again. You tangled your hand into his hair and started playing with it. Rolling it around in between your fingers. You started combing your hand through it in tiny strokes. You were learning to relax into the silence.

• You let the whole weight of your hand rest onto his scalp, running down it and to the nape of his neck. You repeated this a few times, hoping that he would get some light tingles over his body and start to perk up.

• You slowly moved your hand to caress the top of his ear, running a finger along the outer rim. Your touch was so slight that he couldn’t tell if he was imagining it, but it did soothe him. He thought about how reminiscent it was of what he would always do- touch his ears to calm himself. You knew this too of course. That’s why you were doing it.

• Chan knew why you were doing it too. You knew him better than he knew himself.

• You continued to stroke along his ear, adding more fingers and more pressure until you were massaging his ear lobe. Pressing your fingers into the skin of the area right behind where his ear met his skull. You massaged a low place here, rubbing small circles with just enough pressure.

• You slowly continued to drag your hand down to his neck, working again now in light strokes to feel all up and down the side and front. So smooth, you thought.

• You followed suit with your lips, pulling them to the area just between his ear and jaw. You planted a slow, low kiss to his most sensitive area.

• You felt the familiar sensation of wetness again. The taste of salt. Of course it had been another tear resting there for you to find and take away. You wished you could take away all the pain.

• You finally moved your hand all the way down to find his. You gave it a small squeeze, and then brought it up to relax over your own situated on his chest right over his heart. You sat in silence, feeling the strong beat inside. Just enjoying the warmth of his body underneath you.

• “You are so perfect,” you kissed his arm, admiring how hard his bicep was.

• All of a sudden, his stillness turned into a sob again. He tried to break his hand away from yours so he could cover up his eyes and the rest of his face.

• “No baby, you let me keep this hand,” you whispered. “It’s okay to cry, but at the end of it, I need you to know how loved you are. How so many people would kill just to see a smile on your face. How you can make a person’s day better just by being in it. How every time I look at you, I think that there must be a god, because how could there be something as perfect as you without a creator to make it?”

• You heard his tears stifle. He let out a weak smile. Your heart reciprocated the gesture.

• “There’s my beautiful boy,” you kissed his temple.

• “Now tell me baby,” you leaned back up to rest your forehead just on top of his, noses almost touching. “Do you think a life so full of love like that is worth crying over?”

• His tiny smile turned into a big one, leaving his bashful dimples on display. He took a moment and wiped his eyes with the back of his hand.

• He let out a small giggle. “No,” he looked into your eyes.

• “Good answer,” you leaned your face in the tiniest bit to touch a kiss on top of each eyelid. Satisfied, you resigned to your position of curling up next to him, head positioned to fit perfectly to his neck, two hands holding both of his own.

• “I love you,” he murmured.

• “I love you too Channie. And I wasn’t lying, you really are perfect. The last person left to convince is yourself.”

Moon in Libra.

[mintaikk]

I was reading fanfiction and looking at fanart again, and while I find grumpy lover Blitzø funny, I don't think he's a grumpy lover. Have you seen the way he treats people he cares about?

My guy is literally ALWAYS doting on Loona. Constantly giving her affection, constantly giving her gifts, stopping whatever he's doing to go and help her, constantly protecting her, need I go on? Shes literally the only one he actually isn't a jackass to. Like, she can be completely awful, and here he is, defending her no matter what.

With Barbie Wire, while he did sabotage her job, he never once went out of his way to be mean to her, just insulting the people she works with and only getting mad at her because she didn't tell him he was out of rehab. And from what we can see, his is very clingy to her, to the point where it was annoying.

He was a dick to Fizzarolli, but that was before they knew what was going on and when they made up, he's affectionately mean to him and is determined FLABBERGASTED at the way Mammon spoke to Fizz. Like, bro had to take off his glasses to hear that shit.

Honestly, he's a dick to Moxxie, but paying closer attention stuff you can also see that he's still incredibly clingy to him and cares about him a lot, even if he finds him annoying (but also wants to sleep with him and Millie, and literally stalking.???? Yeah, ik it's cuz he wants what they have, but hope the show addresses that instead of it just being used as a joke). I think Moxxie is one of the reasons the fandom believes that he'd be a grumpy lover, but I think it's more about their personality clashes. Blitzø is a Chaotic shit-talking jackass who has crazy ideas for shit, while Moxxie is more reasonable, nervous, and down to earth, which Blitzø believes to be annoying.

For Millie, well, we don't see them have one-on-one interactions much (plz give Millie more attention she's literally so wonderful) but from what we can see, he thinks very positively of Milie and their on great terms, with both of them giving each other nicknames and them enabling each others chaotic behavior. The only downsides that I can see their friendship having is the fact that Blitzø literally stocks her and Moxxie and sexually fantasizes about her, despite Moxxie and Millie being married. Also, Millie referring to Loona as "her bosses hellhound" and treating Loona like a dog, but in the show, Blitzø has only seen her do that once and corrected her once, so I don't think he knows much about that.

This has turned into me analyzing Blitzø's close friendships, and sorry for getting off topic, but talking about how Blitzø would be annoyingly affectionate with Stolas again! From all this, I imagine that if Blitzø and Stolas ever did get into a relationship and get past all their bullshit and trauma, Blitzø would literally just be like, "Oh my Satan, haiiiii😍😍😍😍😍😍😊😊😊😊😊😊❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ how's my favorite prince doing 😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚😚I got you flowers and mice because ily so much❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️. Remeber to take care of yourself and take your meds 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺I love you🥰🥰🥰🥰☺️☺️☺️😘😘😘❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️"

[aleksanderscult]

I love, love so much your blog! I recently finished Shadow and Bone trilogy and my head is like no thought, only Darklina xD So I'm really glad to have found this blog and read your thoughtfull meta!

I have so many thoughts about the trilogy (I've read SoC dualogy but I'm not that big of fan) so I will start with this question: What do you think was the purpose of the donkey dream sequency in S&S? I mean this:

Are they very poor? I ask Ana Kuya.

Not so poor as others.

Then why doesn't he buy a donkey?

He doesn't need a donkey, says Ana Kuya. He has a wife.

I'm going to marry Alina, Mal says.

Then Alina has another dream, where she's the girl but then floats to the sky, leaving the salt behind her.

While reading it, I thought it as a metaphor her being afraid of being with Mal, of becoming ordinary girl and being shackled to him. But with the ending of the trilogy, her losing powers and marrying Mal, didn't she just do that? What do you think LB intented to with this scene? I'm interested knowing your interpration.

Thank you so much, sweet anon! And welcome to this fandom!❤️❤️ You remind me of myself as I was almost a year ago. Be warned though: this suffering will never end. 🥲

Admittedly, I haven't analyzed this scene. Probably because it's too weird and painful.

This couple that they see on the road can really bring Malina flashbacks to the reader.

The man is joyful, carefree, whistling away without a care. He's every inch of Mal from the moment he's been introduced to us.

The woman is tired and struggling. She's Alina carrying this power inside of her without knowing it.

The man doesn't seem to care that his wife is exhausted. The same way Mal didn't seem to care when Alina was sick and dragging her feet. There is this obvious subordination that Mal wants to replicate. Unwillingly or not, Leigh Bardugo really kept Mal's character canon with this vision: he always wanted Alina to depend on him, not to have her own independence.

One could say that his statement "I'm going to marry Alina" is irrelevant with the previous conversation but it does look very suspicious, doesn't it? Mal, a mere child now, seeing this couple and finding it normal for the man to dominate his wife. Was he influenced by such scenes and therefore found them normal?

This scene could be interpreted as Baghra giving advice to Alina regarding her powers and what happens if you suppress them.

But still, why does it kinda look like the same "Have power but only so much as" shit again.

And to be grateful for what? For being a Grisha? Or maybe for having enough strength without needing to search for the remaining amplifiers.

Just like I said in the beginning, these scenes are really sad. For a woman to be compared to a donkey, for a young boy that wants to marry her and (very) possibly treat her that way makes you feel depressed inside. Especially if the reader is a woman too.

The first memory could be real. Or (and I lean on this interpretation) Alina unconsciously conjured a metaphor of how her relationship is with Mal. Deep down she knows how things really are (Mal is the master and Alina just a weak girl trying to catch up on this connection by suppressing the thing that keeps her healthy) but she pushes these things aside, deludes herself and clings on her love for him. The same way she did when she lost her powers. Just look what she said in "Rule of Wolves" to the Darkling. "I am happy. You never saw me this way". Meanwhile Alina's mental state: ☠️☠️

But how Bardugo thought about this scene? That Mal just made an innocent, romantic comment that didn't pass the vibe check. I'm very sure that she didn't want him to be sexist here (she cares about this character too much to spoil his reputation) but she bamboozled herself and made him look like a little prick. Ana Kuya's comment "He doesn't need a donkey. He has a wife" probably reflects the sexist world that Leigh created. Which, by the way, would be fine if she had only let her protagonist break away from these kind of "chains" and find her own power and purpose inside this story *gestures towards George R. R. Martin's female characters*.

[aihoshiino]

The babygirlification if Hikaru is crazy in this fandom... I can't believe that people seem to believe he did zero bad things when ch109 literally showed him standing over Yura and saying that she died so he could feel something...? Just because he's not the one who pushed her, doesn't mean he wasn't an accomplice! (I don't see how Nino would've known about the hiking trip without his help. Also don't see why he would be there monologuing unless he's also a hiking enthusiast who just happened to be there.) He could be both! He could be someone Ai loved but also be a person who became lost without her! Look at Aqua who literally went on a maniacal journey of revenge that saved literally no one & killed 2/3 people whom Ai loved. Because she's gone. The way I see Hikaru's character is that, he loved Ai and understood her as a person instead of the persona she presented. Yet her passing made that persona the only legacy she left behind (in his eyes). She was seen as "the idol closest to the Dome" even though she didn't care! That title wasn't given to any of the other Bkoma members, just her. And, he wasn't really allowed into their children's life because she said so. The only thing he's got left were the "lies" and despite knowing that killing people for her legacy is not what she would've wanted, she's not around to stop him anymore. I think he was a man driven to desperation and doing terrible things because his love was genuine yet no one taught him how to love properly. And her final "rejection" made him believe that being a terrible person was the only thing he could be. Which was why Ai's video became such a huge blow to him: he could've lived without her knowing that her as a person didn't let go of him, yet he went down this path thinking that the true her rejected him & the "lies" was the only thing he could take.

I don't think Ai's rejection broke Hikaru, per se. I think she made him believe that he was worthy of love and not broken (like he thought). And the way things unfold drove him into a spiral that was planted long ago. Humans don't need to be innocent to be worthy of love. The HKAI relationship was two traumatised children finding comfort in eachother. And Hikaru's crimes were about someone letting intrusive thoughts get to them. I don't like how Akasaka handled it at all, but I think erasing Hikaru's grief and the destruction it brought isn't a good way to read his character.

SO, for what it's worth, I do think the way you've analyzed Hikaru here is how he was intended to be read by Akasaka, at least by the end of the story, I don't blame anyone at all who went into this final stretch of OnK legit thinking we were going to get a reveal that Hikaru was not just a straight up villain or at least sympathizing with him and interpreting him as a slightly softer character, because the story basically spends the entirety of the Movie Arc beating you over the head with Extremely Sympathetic Hikaru Characterization.

Hell, it starts asking you to sympathize with him basically from the word go. The first concrete fact we learn about him outside of Aqua's insanely (understandably!) biased POV immediately throws every explicit and implicit assumption we have about him out the window. Not only does his age mean that he was one of Ai's peers and not, as Aqua seems to have been assuming, an older man who had victimized her but we learn this information in tandem with realizing - as Akane points out - this means Taiki was conceived when he was eleven years old, with all that implies. Akane's disgusted reaction pretty clearly telegraphs to the reader how we're supposed to take it and… idk, maybe this sounds cynical, but giving a character a backstory of CSA is like the Press To Make Audience Instantly Want To Protect This Character's Smile button. It very much primes you to want to feel bad for him.

109 does throw a spanner in these works and I do remember even at the time feeling very fucking uncertain about OnK potentially going for the grody old trope of "this character was a CSA victim and now they're Evil" (IF ONLY I FUCKING KNEW) but the more I re-read 109, I felt increasingly uncertain of what, exactly, we were supposed to take away from it. I actually had a suspicion for a really long time that 109 was so heavy handedly and overtly portraying him as a straightforward villain specifically to mislead the reader When They Cry-style and that he wasn't the one responsible for Yura's death at all.

Add all this to the fact that the Movie Arc centers Hikaru's victimhood and his extremely sad wet cat pathetic boy characterization literally at the expense of Ai's story in the movie that was supposed to be about her but what the fuck ever and it's really hard not to think that this is how the story wants you to feel about Hikaru. Hell, the Movie Arc even asks us to empathize with Airi, who is a fucking child rapist. I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to assume that we were not supposed to think of Hikaru as a straightforward villain, especially when Ruby basically, like, looks into the camera when she's having her meeting with him and goes "nobody is born ontologically evil btw people get fucked up by their environments and blaming individuals for systemic issues isn't how anything gets fixed".

Also, like… I want to be delicate about this but I think it's also important to remember that Hikaru's motivations and supposed villainy as portrayed in OnK as of late are pretty outlandish and hard to connect with. But there are almost certainly people in OnK's audience who are also C/SA survivors who are able to resonate with a more grounded portrayal of him. I don't blame anyone at all for preferring a more sympathetic take on him in that case.

[cementcornfield]

https://www.tumblr.com/cementcornfield/754280825602932736

Hi new to this fandom and was told this is the Joe’marr blog . I’d love to know your favorite moment between these two and how would you describe this dynamic cause it seems like Ja’Marr don’t play

Hi anon, welcome to the fandom and to joe'marr in general! and lol yes i do definitely post about them a lot!

ja'marr does NOT play, i agree! neither of them do about each other i'd say <3. i've described my perception of their dynamic a few times in asks (and! important to remember it's just my perception because we don't actually know any of these men personally) but here goes way too many words about it below the cut 🫡

differences and similarities

to me, they're two good friends who are seemingly very different, but complement each other well, and are actually very similar on the inside! ja'marr is outwardly more extroverted, warmer and friendlier, while joe isn't cold, necessarily, but he seems to take longer to warm up to people in general; he's never friendly just to be friendly ("he'll walk right by you and not smile" per ja'marr), and, despite recent appearances lol, is more of an introvert. (although honestly, ja'marr recently has said he's starting to prefer staying in playing video games and joe has been more out and about! so it seems like they may be rubbing off on each other!) but at their core they're both stubborn, strong, brave and have an edge to them that i think they've recognized in each other since day 1 (all those fights at LSU practices! a love of taunting!)

taking care of each other

they care about each other a tremendous amount and it seems like they are always trying to take care of each other in their own ways. ja'marr with his (maybe???) buying joe clothes and taking him out and wanting him to live his life (he must be thrilled about France Joe), and always defending him in the press (and on twitter lmao). joe always getting in extra throwing sessions with ja'marr (including and most importantly ja'marr's rookie year when he was struggling and they'd stay after practice getting extra work in), always talking up ja'marr's talent and intelligence and work ethic in the press, and he basically guaranteed him a spot on the team during the 2021 draft.

mind reading - good

they've known each other for 6 (SIX!!) years now and according to both of them they "don't need words" to understand each other at this point. which is maybe my FAVORITE thing to analyze about them lmao. because that's definitely obvious on the field. i don't think i really understood how special their on-the-field connection is (despite announcers and coaches and analysts talking about it constantly!) until i finally started understanding how the game actually works (lol i didn't watch football until 2 years ago and started understanding it even later). like, ja'marr's ability to know when to break out of his route, when to improvise when joe needs him to, and joe's ability to know exactly where ja'marr's going to be??? and all of this is happening in SECONDS while people are actively trying to bring them down through any means possible?? that's such an impossible feat and it's one they pull off all the time! and this translates to off the field for them too. one of my favorite clips ever is ja'marr describing how he can tell how joe's feeling just by how he walks in the building, and that joe can do the same for him. "i know him like the back of my hand, he knows me like the back of his" like??? ok boys! that's some soulmate shit actually!

mind reading - bad

BUT on that note, i do think that, ironically, this ability to "read each others' minds" sometimes could lead to miscommunication for them! or at least it could lead to them NOT saying things that maybe they should say out loud. i don't have a lot of concrete examples here (obviously because if they're not saying things to each other they aren't saying them to the press) but there's an interview where ja'marr's talking about his hip injury. and how he "never talked to joe about it" but he "knew in his mind that he'd come back when joe needed him" which ???? what are you talking about ja'marr?? the double mind reading there of a. expecting joe to know that he'll come back when he needs him but also b. expecting himself to know when joe would need him! like! that seems really complicated, you could just, talk to each other? maybe?

ja’marr also said that joe didn’t believe him when he told him that his presence was enough at practice, that joe thought he was joking (i guess it’s not commonplace for ja’marr to come right out and say how important joe is to him and the team! so joe probably wouldn't know what to make of that rare moment of sincerity!)

and i think they aren't talking to each other about contracts (which, fair enough, that's business), but people sure were asking ja'marr about joe's contract anyway (and they're starting to do the same for joe about ja'marr!) and we all remember a lot of ja'marr's comments that came around to bite him lol. and, i have NO proof for this one besides my projections/feelings, but i wonder if joe's worried at all about ja'marr's contract this year. if he's worried that if he doesn't perform, ja'marr won't want to stay. now, ja'marr tells the press (and twitter. and his twitch chat. and his dad.) that he wants to stay with joe, but does joe believe that? has ja'marr ever come out and actually said that to him? or is he expecting joe to just know that?

(oh man i wrote a lot in that section, and i have so little actual evidence, but it's something i love thinking about! i don't want them being too cutesy or perfect tbh. they're flawed! they're men raised in stoic sports culture and honestly i am so sure they suck at communicating. i'm sure they've had misunderstandings. i'm sure they've argued. and that's so important!)

balance

i think another thing i love about their dynamic is that ja'marr is such a good check for joe. if you haven't noticed, joe kind of runs the organization lmao. from day 1 he's been involved in the play calling, drafting, overall culture and philosophy. and that's his right! he is good at all of that! he's The Franchise (worshipped throughout the team, the city, half of the state!) and, in the beginning, i think ja'marr felt that way about joe too. joe led him to a perfect season and a national championship in college and then a super bowl his first year in the league! he himself said, right before the super bowl in 21, "he's like a god to me" which is...just a WILD thing to say about your friend :') like??? the devotion? the loyalty?? okay ja'marr!!

but, then they lose, and ja'marr "coaxes joe out of bed" to go celebrate anyway. he gets to be the one to see joe at his absolute lowest and he's the one to build him back up. and i think that really affected their dynamic from then on, to the point that ja'marr became the only guy to think of joe as an actual human being in the organization. i don't think (until very very recently with zac) that a single person other than ja'marr ever said no to joe (the way joe stayed in that titans game last year despite being hurt, at risk, and losing by so much cemented that for me!) ja'marr was the ONLY ONE to say that joe should sit out as long as he needed to for the calf. the only one not celebrating (in fact, he seemed PISSED) when joe was running around during preseason games despite not being fully healed 😭 the only one saying "come on joe let's go out" instead of just coming to him (and it seems that's finally worked lol) and joe NEEDS that. he needs that desperately! someone who will support him but call him on his shit, someone who sees him as more than just his abilities and wants what's actually best for him!

teasing <3

finally (oh my god this is SO LONG) i really enjoy how playful they are with each other. joe tends to be very Stoic and Serious (not all the time, but it's a tendency) and i think ja'marr is good at bringing him out of that. he's talked about how back at LSU he would joke around with joe and it took him a long time to finally figure out how to make him smile and laugh. and i think that's a skill he's perfected over the years! every mic'ed up between the two of them, we get to hear them tease and mess with each other. "you see that big blue thing over there??" "you couldn't overthrow me and get me in stride?" "my guy you were wide open!" (ja'marr's hands on joe's hips the entire time) "you're looking pretty slow" "be serious" and "he said you underthrew him" "yeah right" and "i ain't gonna lie, you look slow as hell" and "i'll start taking it off for you ja'marr" and "joe swears he's sneaky fast" and "hey man you're so cool!" and on and on and on! i HATE that we've never had a long form interview/podcast with BOTH of them on it because my god i want to know what an actual conversation is like between them. but i think it must be a lot of that. a lot of fond jokes, compliments hidden in teasing; we see them laughing together so often <3 and of course we CAN'T forget the UFC moves they practice on each other :) "we mess around every now and then".

the end

okay i'm stopping myself because oh my god this is so much. anon i'm sorry, you absolutely aren't going to read all of this. but it's been two years and i STILL apparently have so much to say about these two. it's ridiculous. i'm ridiculous. (but so are they!!)