#but ocelot seems like he likes Kaz

[lostshitpirate]

Where does the idea that Ocelot is bitter and petty and jealous towards Kaz come from?

Maybe I’m delusional and ocelhira-pilled, but to me it never felt like Ocelot hated Kaz.

It felt that he kinda liked him or viewed him as a sort of friend? Like he’s tired from Kaz letting his paranoia and rage overcome him but hate or is jealous? Idk I haven’t finished mgsv yet so maybe it’s in the tapes or something

[justacrazylilguy]

To The Metal Gear Fandom

Okay so silly question but i see a lot of yall on here and you say all the homoerotic stuff in mgs is canon right? Especially otasune, bbkaz, bosselot. Not to sound like a hater but the first game came out in 1998. You know what age hideo Kojima was back then? 36 with a wife and kids. So what's his real purpose for making a whole game series about a buncha gay guys? That's what leads me to believe it's unintentional but idk. If he said why then lmk cause I dont get why he would? I've been thinking about this a lot recently because I've been seeing a lot of people saying it's deliberate. Anyone can answer btw my askbox is open because i Need an explanation. More in tags cause im insane.

[cleromancy]

the thing about kaz is. why are you so portable. like all the way back to when hes freaking out at paz on the plane in ground zeroes the medic just casually hauls him away from her and its like. kaz do you know youre like six foot tall. more to the point does anyone ELSE realize kaz is like six foot tall. because nobody acts like it. assigned purse dog at motherbase

[asimpleram]

I have trouble with BBKaz fan stuff not because I don't like BBKaz, I love it, but the way people write BB as a dom with like an intentional dom persona. It's just my ultimate form of "he would not say that" for Big Boss. I just don't see it. I think him and Kaz get up to some weird toxic power play shit that where BB can be in a position of power. But I just don't see him as like a daddy dom. I think they are just fucked up like that.

[mosscrab]

mgsv has so many literary references to books i have essays abt it kind of makes me.

[myaoiboy]

OHHH MY GOD THAT LENS FLARE HES LYING I CANT BELIEVE I NEVER NOTICED THAT BEFORE

MGS has a very tight color language, especially obvious in V and PW, but it's present throughout if you know what you're looking for. The main ones that get played on are red, yellow, and blue.

Red is kind of obvious. Violence, etc. Ocelot is typically wearing a lot of red, like in this image. In V, characters who are doing/about to do violent acts are often back-lit with red lights that seem to come from nowhere.

In PW, red incites dissonance by foreshadowing Paz being a double agent, while *also* painting her as an innocent little red riding hood analogue. But I digress.

Yellow is also kind of a no-brainer. It's typically associated with allies, general good-heartedness, and maybe a sense of naivete. Think about Amanda and Cecile in Peace Walker.

Kaz even *changes his outfit* from yellow ascot (and blond hair) to red tie and beret post-GZs incident.

Blue is a little harder to tie down. It's best described as deception (including self deception), "something isn't what it seems." Sometimes it's used for grief as well. Think Paz's whole room's lighting, the blue butterfly, or the way Snavid is described as a blue rose-- pretty, technically biological, but unnatural.

The lens flares in V are used a LOT to toss a flash of the appropriate color behind someone. Here we have Ocelot saying "yeah boss I'm over it dw" and the lighting going

Which. We know he's lying. We know because of the way he acts for the next THIRTY YEARS. We know bc when he has a senior moment (a multiply-hypnosis addled senior moment, but still) and mistakes snavid for john, the first thing he does is plant a kiss on him.

But sure buddy. You're totally over it.

[majjiktricks]

Can you explain why you think Ocelot likes Kaz? I was always under the impression that they fought like cat and dog (sorry I couldn't resist).

this took a while to answer because i wanted to go back through some of the mgsv tapes with ocelot and kaz but. mainly, what you thought is entirely untrue. whatever antagonism exists in their relationship, it feels like the fandom has blown WAYYY out of proportion.

the ONLY point of contention i can think of off the top of my head is kaz being jealous of ocelot for knowing bb longer. in the tape where kaz is talking to zero about where bb is during his coma, zero mentions an agent who has known bb 10 years longer than kaz has, and kaz SCOFFS, like he cant believe someone would know bb better than him. but also, this tape is set almost immediately after ground zeroes, so who knows how his feelings might have changed over the years.

the only time ocelot seems to get genuinely angry at kaz is when hes accusing quiet of. well. anything he accuses her of. kaz tends to do so without any evidence, and he doesnt trust her (for justified reasons), but he also blames her for a lot of things. ocelot is the only person on mother base willing to defend her. and he never yells, he just logically rebukes and kaz is the one who fights back.

any time ocelot speaks about kaz without him present, he really only praises him. he obviously is impressed at what he and bb accomplished in founding MSF.

thats just what i can remember. going for evidence now, grabbed some of the tapes that have ocelot AND kaz in them:

Bionic arm tape Ocelot: "I couldn't get [a bionic arm] for you at the time, but y'know, now…" ocelot offers to get bionics for kaz, he wants to make kaz's life easier. kaz refuses i think out of a self-punishing sentiment, not out of resentment or denial of ocelot's help. that because all of his men died, hes not allowed to have it. and he gets heated and angry about it, nearly yelling. but then he apologizes, realizing he wasnt actually angry at ocelot, just venting.

Yellow cake and the Shinkolobe Mine tapes ocelot and kaz theorizing about why the shinkolobwe mine was reopened/being mined for uranium. the conversation honestly sounds like they could be on a lunch break just chilling.

The Children Escape tapes in [2] they disagree over who should interrogate eli. ocelot doesnt think kaz can responsibly question the kids, so he steps up to do it instead. kaz dismisses him and his expertise at interrogation because he thinks ocelot will enjoy it too much. ocelot is definitely offended, and they do argue here, but i think this is because of the topic at hand and not indicative of their other conversations.

Huey's Interrogation Tapes i think their good(ish) cop bad cop routine with huey is very funny. theyre working together to get as much information out of him as possible. and it works.

overall i think they actually work really well together. after all, they spent the time bb and v were unconscious recreating MSF from scratch. also, i think kaz trusts ocelot to some extent, going as far as to put his life on the line to distract from the hospital attack. he depended upon ocelot to get bb (venom. but. you know.) out of the hospital and to afghanistan in time to rescue him.

at the very least, they are working toward the same goals (during mgsv) and have no ideological reason to hate one another. when they DO work together, it gets results.

i cant imagine you can work with someone for years doing all that and still not have any positive association with them. kaz definitely is the type to hold a grudge, but if anything, i think thats a personal one. and im not even certain on whether or not he does hold anything against ocelot once they start working together (during mgsv at least. after the game. well. anything goes.)

was sent some additional thoughts that cover the cutscenes as well as the tapes: all good stuff here

[icarusallusion]

I think MGSV really robbed us of a Kazuhira and Quiet properly written relationship and really took away a proper characterization of the two, especially Kazuhira as he has already had a good characterization that they took away. In Quiet 's scenario they literally just need to write better female characters, it's so awful.

While friendship definitely didn't have to be how their relationship went, I think some sort of mutual bitter respect between them would have fit, but instead we get a very disturbing take on them with Kazuhira calling Quiet like awful things, talking about killing her, and blaming her for getting attacked.

Quiet is seemingly respectful of Kazuhira and doesn't seem to hold a grudge against him, and Kazuhira is shown to accept people's wrongdoings and still show a respectful professionalism around them in the past. Kaz kinda hates Ocelot and Big Boss (venom snake but kaz thinks it's big boss) in MGSV but still respects them and treats them like a proper coworker.

We can also see this with Paz a little bit, pre MGSV.

Big Boss quite literally kidnaps him and talks about doing horrific things to him if he doesn't join, months later he's in love with him as a legend and then in MGSV a character that minorly inconvenienced him is suddenly his mortal enemy, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention Ocelot and BB were both part of Zero, worked with and for him, but we never truly see Kaz get angry with them for this.

Kazuhira understands throughout the games the manipulative pull Zero has on people, but when it comes to morally wrong female characters they aren't written.. good. In turn, they write the male characters that attack them bad as well. Taking Kazuhira and making him someone who's just angry all the time and so easy to hate for newer players was awful to me. I loved him in Peace Walker, traitor and all. However, I see new players blindly playing MGSV as their first game and DESPISING Kazuhira because they haven't seen him in his proper characterization, haven't seen him outside his dehumanization of Paz and Quiet and his overall anger.

AS WELL AS HOW HE TREATED PAZ, it was so weird to me. Obviously he's angry but even before they found out Motherbase was destroyed Kazuhira rants and rages and calls her a bitch and other like shitty things and it was so weird to me. Because in Peace Walker, he literally admits he's in the wrong for even letting Paz on the base in the first place, post her betraying them horrendously, Kaz still speaks with some fallen foe respect towards her

But then when it comes to Quiet, Kaz participates in the dehumanization and ridicule of her while also ostracizing her from everyone else. Strangely enough the only characters we see really hate Quiet are background Diamond Dogs soldiers, they don't build any reason to hate her for the player which just makes Kaz look crazy. From a non meta point, to not have Kaz have at least some decency towards Quiet when nobody else really has a problem with her except the soldiers was weird.

It felt like his deep rooted hatred with Cipher was just squeezed into a character, because the lack of proper expanding on Quiet really felt even more uncomfortable when all we got was ass shots and dehumanization especially.

I think MGSV could've been a good game if it didn't try and take itself so serious. The seriousness of battle overshadows the time spent with Quiet and with Kazuhira and literally every other character that could've been properly expanded on.

I love MGSV, I love Metal Gear in general. However, it fails it's characterization so much, more especially in modern games like Revengance and Phantom Pain. They are good games, but when all the women are written as rage bait without any proper reason to hate them at all, it sucks. When characters in general regardless of gender are destroyed of their former written self, it sucks. I could go into this with so many other characters but I couldn't stop thinking of Kaz and Quiet and how they come directly from the lack of proper female writing as well as the lazy writing that really spoils MGSV for a lot of people.

[metalgearstranding]

"If the whole world was like this base, I think the peoples of the world would bid farewell to fighting for good. Maybe that's what The Boss wanted in the end."

Dude, you were SO close! *shakes Ocelot like a ragdoll*

And all it took for him to reach that conclusion, was to finally feel like he was part of something, a community of diverse people all united.

That's not something I imagine he's ever had as a child taken away from his parents, made to live a double life, never really belonging anywhere, torn between his allegiance to the US while seeming genuinely proud of his Russian roots at the same time.

Even if he's comfortable operating on his own, Ocelot's life must have been very lonely. How are you expected to form connections when you can't shake hands you're constantly playing a role and operating from the shadows. You have to keep people at arms length to avoid compromising your cover, the mission and risking the lives of potential loved ones.

Maybe he made friends with some fellow soldiers in the GRU (considering how he treats the Ocelot unit in MGS3 I doubt it lol), but I don't think he's ever really been part of a community. Even for the Patriots he stayed in Russia. Even if all of it was a lie, the time he spent on mother base seems to have given Ocelot a new perspective. For once, he was allowed to be himself, among allies. There was a secret agenda of course, but both consciously and subconsciously, Ocelot's genuine purpose was to lend his help, even if the why is fucked up.

We don't really get to directly witness the camaraderie between Diamond Dogs soldiers like we did in Peace Walker, but since Code Talker and Ocelot himself are praising mother base, I imagine that means the ambiance was good in-between deadly outbreaks and tiny blond menaces acting out. Ocelot seems to enjoy training the men and DD, he takes a liking to Quiet, to the children, he seems to get along relatively well with Kaz too all things considered. Probably the most fun he's had in a while that didn't involve shooting someone lol

I wonder if Ocelot mourned all of that when he was forced to go back to his old life... Even if he enjoyed his time on mother base being a part of a community instead of a simple cog in a war machine being exploited by the powers of this world, and even if his eyes were open long enough for him to start to understand the Boss's will, I don't think Ocelot would seriously consider the idea of living a normal life. I don't think he could. The transition from military to civilian life can be extremely difficult for regular soldiers in our world who willingly chose that life. Imagine when you're functioning at Ocelot's level and that's all you've known all your life...

But hey, that's the tragedy of Metal Gear isn't it, people being dragged into a life of fighting they can't escape and accidentally or (or not) perpetuating the cycle...

[mirrorhouse]

looking through the files for that last audio post again made me finally realise that there’s a consistency to how inconsistent i find ocelot’s voice in mgsv

it's like in cutscenes, his voice is rough and usually deeper sounding, and he doesn't have much of his 'cowboy'/southern accent though it is still there. imo, it's closer sounding to patric zimmerman's performance as ocelot in mgs1/2/4

but outside of cutscenes (eg. during the mother base tutorial, meeting with him outside quiet's cell, in the tapes and radio calls, and the conversation between kaz and ocelot after the truth ending credits) his voice is smooth, usually a little higher, and he has a stronger accent

it seems like it's consistently inconsistent; he sounds one way in the cutscenes, and different outside of them. idk why i never realised that's it until now, maybe because most of ocelot's 'non-cutscene' dialogue has radio/tape filters over it (even though in the first afghanistan cutscene i realised you can clearly hear the difference between the cutscenes and the short gameplay segment in the middle)

i just wonder if there was a reason for it. i assume they'd record the cutscenes first and then all the extra/tape/radio dialogue after (or the other way around). it seems weird for them to switch directions on the voice acting halfway through like that though, but what do i know

[zeeckz]

Pls give us ur thoughts on kazquiet!

See, I don't know much about Quiet (...nor most of gz/mgsv lore anyway) just yet, so it's mostly me guessing and pretending

So, to begin with, I think if not for the context, Kaz would've been more than open about her joining them; she already checks all the boxes by being good-looking, but it just so happens that she's also a remarkable soldier

I find her features really adorable, meaning I choose to believe he would too

My guess would be their favorite feature is each other's lips. They're really soft.

I haven't seen a proper comparative, but it seems she's a bit taller than him given that she's almost as tall as Venom? I think Kaz would be the type to be more into women shorter than him (doesn't even need to be a big difference, just that they're shorter), so it'd catch him a bit off-guard to feel interested in her despite that

Afaik she communicates solely on hand gestures, so if they had modern day phones, she'd only use emojis. Which ones, you ask? These: 😺😼😽😾💯💢💥💬👁️‍🗨️🗨️🗯️💭💤🫥+all the hand/s emojis. Furthermore, Kaz has to hear that awful robotic voice describe them to him (the text-to-speech thing).

She'd share all of her music discoveries with him, the two of them sitting next to each other in a somewhat secluded place, leaning their heads on each other... Nobody bothers them during this time because everyone already fears Kaz's average angry mood and they are Not risking their lives to interrupt him nor his Absolutely Lethal & Avid Music Enjoyer Girlfriend

Kaz is a noise/industrial/ambient type of music enjoyer to me; since I know absolutely nothing about Quiet's music taste, I'm assuming it's similar to Venom's. I don't know much about his either LOL but based on the few songs I remember hearing on videos, I'd guess it's kind of soft rock. Thus, Kaz would try to reciprocate her wish to share music but would 100% fail at it because his tastes are just too niche. Some ambient song perhaps, the rest is pure uncomprehensible noise to her

Quiet loves chocolate, the milk chocolate type with nuts or similar. He'll sometimes bring her a bar to cheer her up. He'll also get some Pocky box/es to play with when he's in a particularly good mood

She's just so silly to me, she'll do so many adorable things unawaredly; Kaz is mad because he knows she's not doing it on purpose and he keeps finding himself entranced by her

She does purposely steal his beret though, she likes to annoy him a little bit and also likes to wear it herself

I find her to be like a (cropped) Doberman, as in - misunderstood, has intimidating look, actually very loving and goofy. This being said, i just imagined her going on a mission and coming back with a rabbit or some other animal she specifically hunt for him to eat. She's very happy about it. She looks scary to the rest (except Venom bc he likes her and Ocelot bc he's deranged).

Kazquiet is pretty much non-sexual to me, but I'm under the impression that Kaz would still manage to do things in a way that appears suggestive to others (like licking ice-cream and showing off his "hidden" abilities) (I guess it's just the way he is) (she's looking away)

Quiet definitely teases him though, to a certain extent (like breaking the pocky stick right before they are about to kiss)

Kaz braids her hair, she holds her strands of hair for him

They both use DD to bring stuff to each other if they're busy on base (dw he gets lots of treats and pets for it)

Quiet will sometimes invisibilize, sneak into his room and (lovingly) look at him sleep for a bit, maybe tuck him and give him a little kiss on the forehead or the tip of his nose or on the lips, depends on her mood

They're slow kissers. They're kissing slowly, gently, and caressing each other.

[ls00]

kaz....kaz beloved...

I love that man but his brain is broken. So much of PP could have been avoided if he was reigned in a bit more.

On top of fuckin, certain things should have let him know that Venom was not Bibo.

Kaz how the hell are you going to listen to the guy who uou witnessed fighting Emmerich's creations ask "Do we know it'll work" and no raise serious questions???

Honestly everything with Venom and Emmerich is a red flag alone because coming off of GZ, even with Emmerich as a suspect, Big Boss would not act that oblivious to the guy.

Kaz please use that beautiful big braid of yours.

Also I really liked how Ocelot somehow seems like he's both taking the piss out of and rooting for Huey. It was probably at least partially his idea for Huey to bring up making the battle gear and I simply enjoy the fact that he is really just somehow almost always opposed to Kaz when it comes to matters like that. Its funny

[fancyshooting]

Ocelot's disdain for Fortune's "self indulgence" in MGS2 gives a good insight into how he views himself. Fortune is mourning the recent, wrongful deaths of both her husband and father. She is consumed with grief to the point where she craves death as a relief. Ocelot is not only fully aware of this, but is the cause of it. He took action as an agent of the Patriots to deliberately prolong her suffering. Even as she is dying, Ocelot shows no compassion towards her. He calls a "miserable wretch" then continues with, "You were hamming it up as the tragic heroine [...] Pure self-indulgence - you couldn't get enough of the drama."

He blames her for allowing her feelings to guide her and is openly disgusted by it. This sentiment is one shared by The Boss (although she is less callous), who warns Naked Snake not to develop personal feelings for comrades. At the very least, they must be kept under control. Witnessing death is inevitable in the life of a soldier. Their comrades will die but they cannot operate effectively if they dwell on the pain it causes. They must be cold, unemotional and push on to complete the mission. Individual feelings should never be a factor.

Raised by the Philosophers, this is something Ocelot has likely been taught since birth. The beginning of his life is tragic and unfair but he mustn't be defined by it. To make him a more effective agent, any personal expression would have been discouraged and stifled, with the aim of rendering him incapable of functioning without orders to follow. They needed him to be dependent on their organisation so they would have full control over him. Being raised like this resulted in Ocelot being unable to think of himself as anything but a tool. He may seem egotistical but really he barely even recognises his own humanity, which is referenced in the MGS4 novel with the line about his "insignificant personality". He repeatedly damages his mind without hesitation because he never valued himself as an individual in the first place. For him, his life is about service, duty and loyalty - just like his mother. Ocelot spent most of his life working selfessly towards Big Boss' goals, seeing himself as simply a cog in the wheel.

People wrapped up in their own misery like Fortune and Kaz disgust Ocelot. A selfish outlook impairs the ability to see beyond individual desires and causes a cohesive unit to fracture (As Volgin tells him: "Your feelings are a menace to the unity of our organisation."). Pursuing a goal as grand as Big Boss' requires complete unity. In his speech in Peace Walker, BB tells his men that the international perception of Outer Heaven will change depending on the times - there will be no consistent ideology or cause. Big Boss' soldiers must not question the vague foundation of their organisation or they will weaken it. They must surrender their independence for the sake of the group and give themselves entirely to it, or it will cease to function and its members will no longer have a purpose.

This has been Ocelot's way of life since he was born. His intended purpose was to blindly serve the Philosophers, which he did with success until he met Snake. From then on, Snake was Ocelot's purpose and he spent 50 years fighting for him without question. Big Boss eventually loses his own humanity and arguably ends up seeing Ocelot as nothing but a tool (I say arguably because although Ocelot gave much more than BB, he and Ocelot both operate on the same level of understanding when it comes to living the life of a soldier and self-sacrifice etc.). Ocelot is intelligent enough to see this (possible interpretation of "was in love with the legend") but knows that without Big Boss, he is deprived of a purpose.

Whether Big Boss eventually sees him as a tool or not, his words in 1964 still had such a distinct impact on Ocelot that he developed a permanent attachment to Big Boss. He gave the young Ocelot true freedom and helped him shape what little personal identity he had. He irreversibly changed the course of his life. No other person or organisation could ever do what Big Boss did for Ocelot and so are undeserving of his loyalty.

Although Ocelot is proud of his dedication and sees it as a noble pursuit, he does seem to resent his upbringing. When he mocks the French language, he says, "All that Catherine the Great aristocratic pompousness gets to me, that's all."

The MGSV script notes give the reason for his contempt:

In Imperial Russia, French was deliberately spoken by the upper classes as a way to distinguish them from those they deemed socially inferior, such as their staff. Speaking French created a clear line between rich and poor, educated and uneducated, privileged and unprivileged. For Ocelot to be raised as an elite yet still find discomfort in this is telling. He supposedly benefitted from special treatment for the first few decades of his life but shows strong disapproval of that sort of privilege. In MGSV, he also questions why a captive Viscount should receive special treatment over the other prisoners. Ocelot rejects titles and inherited status even though in his youth, his favourable treatment was down to his legendary parentage. He had a quality education and was trained to an exceptionally high standard but at the cost of making genuine human connections. He was lied to and told he was an orphan, leading him to believe he had no family or identity. As far as we know, he was never even given a surname. He was probably raised in an emotionally cold environment, possibly by strangers in different locations, making for an unsettled, disturbed childhood. His training was likely strict and unforgiving - too much praise might result in the young agent forming a positive attachment with his instructors.

(His ego in MGS3 suggests a lifetime of congratulations and praise for bare minimum but it could be that he only received this treatment when he arrived in the USSR. The KGB would've welcomed him as a defector from the US. Then, in the GRU, Volgin knows he's the son of a legendary hero, so he is automatically held in high regard there too and lauded simply for existing. Young Ocelot, starved of positive attention and recognition, is highly receptive to this and becomes an arrogant showoff until Snake snaps him back into reality.)

For the Philosophers, it is better that he has no bonds, so they purposely stunt his ability to make genuine connections with other people. He should not ever see people as anything but pawns to be manipulated and exploited. Discouraged from finding comfort in people, he turns to movies and connects with them instead. His fondness for animals and nature could also point to an aversion to human company. He probably finds it difficult to truly relax around people after being trained to be constantly alert and suspicious. Every person is a potential threat, no matter how innocuous they may seem. Animals, on the other hand, are pure and uncomplicated, so he can lower his guard around them.

The only person he has ever connected with is Big Boss. Even so, he never volunteers any backstory like other characters close to Big Boss, like Kaz and Eva. Ocelot never feels the need to discuss his personal life because as far as he's concerned, he has none. He doesn't live his life for himself. Whenever he talks on the tapes in MGSV, it's to talk about the mission or about other people. This lack of interest in discussing personal matters is, again, a trait shared by The Boss. If committed entirely to a cause or ideal, there should be no concern for the self as an individual.

Ocelot has become accustomed to working alone and several quotes say he prefers it that way. Female Mother Base staff in MGSV can be overheard saying that "you can never tell what he's really thinking" as if he is always guarded. Then of course:

"Ocelots are proud creatures. They prefer to hunt alone."

There's also the tape in MGSV where Ocelot refuses to take DD for himself because he "prefers to work alone".

He is never lonely, except without Snake:

Snake is Ocelot's closest connection to the family he was abducted from. He and Ocelot were able to intuit each other's respective connection to The Boss, which is one of the reasons why they were drawn to each other in the first place.

Whenever he is given the opportunity to work with Big Boss, Ocelot keeps his distance because he knows that being near him hinders his abilities, as is clear in MGS3. Alone, he is brilliant but he cannot function properly alongside the only person he has ever had true feelings for. To be effective, he cannot be overly aware of his humanity. If Big Boss is around, Ocelot is unable to shut off his emotions. On a personal level, he would prefer to be by Big Boss' side but he knows he will be of no use to him unless they are apart.

[otaconsleftlens]

Edit Ideas For Revolver Ocelot

I've been listening to some music lately and I don't know how to make fan edits, but I know if I knew how they would go so hard, but if anyone knows how to make an edit I would love to tell you my ideas

First song and edit would have to use You Can Be The Boss by Lana Del Rey, typical Ocelot/Big Boss edit idea, the song works so well for their dynamic. Second song would be Ringfinger by Nine Inch Nails.

YOU CAN BE THE BOSS - LANA DEL REY

"You taste like the Fourth of July"

First of all, patriotic as fuck, very thematic

"You can be the boss, daddy, you can be the boss"

Pretty self explanatory.

"I like you a lot, I like you a lot" and "I love you but I don't know why"

Again, self explanatory, typical obsessive Ocelot behavior. To me, Ocelot's infatuation was fairly sudden.

"Bad to the bone, sick as a DOG"

Dog, diamond dogs, you could definitely tie something here.

"You know that I like, like you a lot"

Hmm, this feels like it could fit somewhere. I know we joke about BB being oblivious to feelings, especially with Eva hinting at Ocelot's crush and BB being confused, but later down the line I choose to believe he knows he has Ocelot in his back pocket.

"He had a cigarette with his number on it, He gave it over to me, "Do you want it?" I knew it was wrong but I palmed it, I saved it, I waited, I called it"

THIS LINE IS NOT CIGAR APPROVED, but it's close enough, and I think the scene of Ocelot lighting BB's cigar would work great here in an edit. Also shows a bit of Ocelot's dedication to Big Boss.

"I knew it was wrong, I'm beyond it, I tried to be strong, but I lost it"

Ocelot is the most mindfucked character in MGS, he definitely lost it.

"He has a white corvette like I want it, A fire in his eyes, know, I saw it, He's bleeding from his brain and his wallet, He's sick and he's taken but honest"

White corvette made me think of the white horse motif that we've seen in previous MGS games, The Boss riding a white horse, Ocelot's white horse, etc. Bleeding from his brain makes me think of Venom Snake, lines definitely still work for the theme.

"I need you, I need you babe, Like I never needed anyone"

Typical Ocelot yearning line.

ANYWAY, a lot of the lines in this song would work so well in a BB/Ocelot edit, hell maybe even a Kaz/BB edit. NEXT SONG! RINGFINGER - NINE INCH NAILS "Well, you've got me working so hard lately Working my hands until they bleed If I was twice the man I could be I'd still be half of what you need Still you lead me and I follow Anything you ask you know I'll do This one act of consecration Is what I ask of you"

FIRST OF ALL. EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS? More fanon, but the idea of Ocelot never feeling like enough for BB. I always imagined BB favored Kaz more over Ocelot, and I like to imagine Ocelot being quite jealous, but in a reserved way. I feel like this is shown during the Quiet shower scene where Ocelot's body language seems... uncomfortable? Bothered? Also, Ocelot would follow BB anywhere and everywhere, and he'd do anything Big Boss would ask of him.

"Ringfinger Promise carved in stone Deeper than the sea Ringfinger Sever flesh and bone And offer it to me"

Ocelot LITERALLY taking Liquid's arm, a clone of Big Boss.

"Well, you just leave me nailed here Hanging like Jesus on his cross I am just dying for your sins And aiding to the cause"

War in general, Ocelot assisting BB in everything, even if it's good or bad.

"Wrap my eyes in bandages Confessions I see through I get everything I want When I get part of you"

Ocelot wanting a part of BB? Tie back into Liquid's arm, Ocelot being so infatuated with the Boss he's almost blind. Anyway that's all.

[sir-yeehaw-paws]

@dougielombax So as far as 'where the English strain could've come from/been made' based on the tape, this is my thought.

We know where two of the three strains ended up: The first was embedded into Quiet after she was given her parasite therapy. We know she (essentially) has a complete physical overhaul after she's burned almost to death in Cyprus by Big Boss. I theorize Skull Face had her implanted with it around the time she was undergoing her 'treatment'.

(And, it's one reason she spends the entire game not talking. Until she is left with absolutely no choice. Kaz was almost certainly correct in that she was originally sent as a smoking gun to kill Big Boss/Venom Snake. Or, if not him specifically then as a way to unleash the parasite when he wanted it to be. This is largely confirmed in game, both in Quiet vowing to "Never speak it" *Which she confesses to Code Talker in Navajo after she's tortured, and when Skull Face taunts Snake before he dies with "Very close to you.")

This also could've been a way for Skull Face to have punished her for failing in her original mission to assassinate Big Boss, since speaking English would of course, kill her too. Quiet was designed to die, either way. Whether she succeeded in her mission or not. But that's a tangent.

Anyway. The second strain:

Thrown into the oil fire by Venom. Just before they kill Skull Face.

Leaving the third:

He tries to throw them both in, but baby Mantis snags it up and gives it to Eli before he can do that. This is sort of just left hanging, save for in the unreleased Kingdom of the Flies.

To address your point from here:

Camp Omega is a possibility, but I'm not certain about it. Nor do I think it was in Cyprus or Dhekelia-adjacent areas.

The latter is because that hospital was fully on Cipher's radar. I assume most of the staff monitoring BB and Venom were Cipher staff or on Zero's payroll somehow. They'd almost certainly have to be in order for this to have gone off at all. The care and keeping of BB and V there was top secret.

Like Ocelot says, "Skull Face needed to produce the English strain in secret." Since he had to keep it under Cipher radar. That is not an easy task, given the reach Zero has.

"Some little room could've been anywhere. But now nowhere at all."

Camp Omega is a possibility. We know Chico got the hole in his throat with the earplug for a cassette player, much like how later 'guinea pig' victims would. But Chico was not infected with the English Strain. But since he was one of the first people (that we know of) with the uh..'insertion method', it's possible he was a sort of training dummy for later on.

There is also the room that kept Paz when she was prisoner (or I guess where she was moved too later on). But again-how much of Camp Omega would be on Cipher radar? Zero wouldn't care if Paz was being captured or tortured; he even warns her of that very possibility in their own tape together.

"If he (in this case Big Boss; but of course Zero doesn't know Skull Face has gone rogue yet) should find out. Well. I'd greatly regret having put you in that position." (But I'm not fully sure I believe Zero here either. I think he'd have written Paz off as a necessary sacrifice, quite possibly. Especially since she does sell him out under extreme torture).

So it is possible that it could've been Camp Omega, but Skull Face also might not have made the English strain at that point yet either. We know Quiet is the first one he infects, and that's not until 1984.

And of course, Skull Face was exiled to Africa. As Ocelot says in this tape. Meaning it's entirely likely that he developed the English strain somewhere in Africa, in another small place he later burned to the ground to cover his tracks.

Just like he did with the villages.

Again, to quote Ocelot from another tape,

"They sure do seem to like tossing their problems into the fire." (They being XOF)

[myaoiboy]

how do u feel abt,,,,Ocelot putting Kaz in a harness/leash

hmmm. this is interesting, i hadn't thought about it before.

in some ways i kind of think obvious symbols of submission like leashes would sort of give up the game, as it were.

kaz typically seems to be fun to ocelot because there's the chance that he *could* turn around and snap back. he has every opportunity, but doesn't. if he were willingly submissive, where's the risk, right?

but they also spend nearly a decade together, in the 70s and 80s. so.

i feel like they have a meeting in the late 70s, or maybe ocelot, in a show of good faith, a rare moment of charity, takes kaz out on the town. the town in question just happens to be san francisco, and ocelot just happens to have picked a place in the castro.

maybe they're meant to meet someone in a seedy establishment, and what do you know, it just so happens that gay bars tend to conveniently have fewer cops and/or nosy patrons and/or people willing to risk their own reputation by saying they were there. and just to fit in, of course, ocelot convinces kaz that it's essential that he dress the part. and, well, ocelot *is* more experienced, kaz should probably be his boy, right?

and kaz agrees to this costume, begrudgingly, because he knows none of this. he's the wrong kind of gay. he just fucks men occasionally. ocelot's the catty little demon twink who knows where to go and who to talk to and what to wear.

so ocelot gets to wear chaps and boots and basically look like he would anyways, kaz, though, is given the most mortifying outfit he can imagine. "the leash is just because it's going to be crowded! just don't want us to get separated!" bullshit.

and kaz is on display like a piece of meat. look, don't touch. no one would dare. if they even get close, ocelot stares daggers into them until they get the memo. being held on a leash is one thing, but in this moment, he's ocelot's property, and everyone knows it, and that is mortifying.

he stumbles through the rendezvous with their contact. he's completely off his game, doesn't have the finesse he normally would to close the deal. ocelot speaks for him, and that makes him even more angry and frustrated. he starts to disagree with something ocelot's said, and he's met with a tug at the back of the harness.

ohhh, when they get back to their room, kaz LAUNCHES at him. ocelot probably even lets him get a couple good hits in, he earned them. good thing they don't have anyone to answer to, because they'll both be black and blue in the morning.

anyways uhhh have i mentioned that im a slut for leatherman ocelot?