#but no. angel is not the agressor. he is the victim

[luneemeritus]

TW: SA, RAPE

I can't believe I have to reblog this only to defend Angel Dust (read: a sex worker that is being raped, eslaved, abused, trafficked) even though the original post was not even about him.

My point in the original post is that any kind of representation can be interpretated the wrong way and turned into something "problematic", specially gender identity and sexuality. And guess what is happening in the comment section 🥰 exactly what I pointed out.

One thing is wishing the Hellaverse had more sapphic couples aside from Chaggie (I agree, I also wish for more sapphic couples in the future). Another thing is accusing Vivienne of intentionally "fetishizing" mlm and "not caring" about wlw couples, even though 1, she is a queer woman, 2, she isnt the only writer. Yes, she is the head of the project, but Adam and Brandon also participate in the writing. Actually, Brandon is the one who helped Viv to write Stolitz, he's literally the hero of Stolitz shippers. Try to examinate why you're putting all the blame on Viv, for something that is not even true.

Before I get to the main rant here, let's talk about the mlm couples: Stolitz, Fizarozzie and Huskerdust. Stolitz began being a sex centered relationship, a transactional fucking, sex work, basically. The problem started when they developed feelings for each other, both Stolas and Blitz are very damaged and toxic people that hurted each other even unintentionally. They broke up, they're not having sex anymore, and both of them realized that keeping this relationship into sex only is problematic for both of them. Ok. Now Fizarozzie: there are two, TWO, moments where sex is briefly mentioned between the two. The first time is in the first minutes of "Oops!" (S2-Ep6), and in the last minutes of the same episode (there's also a scene when Fizz comments about Ozzie's cock). That's it. Aside from that, they have a healthy, adorable, lovable dynamic that is not sex centered. I'm really, really trying to find anything problematic about Fizarozzie but honestly it's impossible. Are we really forgetting the main dynamic between them: keeping their love a secret? Which proves that Ozzie is actually the strongest of Sins because he is able to show vulnerability despite what Crimson said about him? Are we ignoring all of that just to push the narrative that "it's all about sex, all mlm couples, all of them"?

Now, about Huskerdust: it's not canon in the show yet but it was confirmed by Viv and, come on, everyone shipps it so let's count it as canon. Angel and Husk started the show not getting along. Husk is being forced by Alastor to stay in the Hotel, he can't stand anyone in the Hotel but specially Angel's facade. Angel, oh Goddess, Angel is a sexual slave. Is that clear yet? He is being trafficked. Abused. Dehumanized, for years, by the man he once loved. He doesnt perform that facade because he wants to, it's not a matter of ego, it's a matter of survival. Do we have that clear yet? Angel is more than his facade, he is more than his trauma, and the show let that very clear. Angel didn't have his boundaries "disrespected" by Val, his boundaries were DESTROYED. He is not treated as nothing but a piece of meat, an object owned by Val. OF COURSE he is not going to cope well with this situation. He is not a perfect victim, no one is, perfect victimhood does not exist. Yes, Angel pushed Husk's boundaries several times and harrassed him. The same way Husk pushed Angel's *emotional* boundaries, making extremely rude comments about Angel's work for no reason other than assholery. Angel and Husk got along when both learned how to respect each other, but mainly, when Angel finally understood that it was safe for him to let his walls down. To let his facade down, because it was causing him to self destruct and act inapropriately. Saying that Huskerdust is a "sex centered" relationship is insane.

Why am I saying this? Because Angel's victimhood and his complexity as a character was not my original point. Yet his hypersexuality was brought up, not to discuss his character, but to prove Viv "fetishizes" mlm couples. Something that is simply. Not. True. Now, I used the term "victim blaming" inapropriately and I apologize for that, I shouldn't wrongly accuse anyone of victim blaming. But you know, isnt it kinda hypocritical to call me out for accusing you of something you didnt, while accusing Viv of things she also never did? Listen, it's still fucked up to bring up Angel's flaws that had nothing to do with my original post. Try to examinate why you care more about Angel's flaws than what is being done to him (read: the reason of why he has these flaws in the first place) and what he is doing to improve himself. Angel was called out for acting inapropriately, and stopped. Where is the fetishization? I can't see it.

Just because we didnt see Chaggie fucking each other or devouring each other's mouths, it doesnt mean they didnt care about Chaggie. We will get a sexy Chaggie duet in S2, guys. We have multiple Chaggie fans, maybe it isnt for you, maybe you wished it was more tender and intimate, which is fine, but straight up accusing Viv of fetishization and being unwilling to write wlw and female characters in general? Nu-uh. We have Verosika, Millie, Quee Bee, Charlie, Vaggie, Carmilla, Velvette, Stella (yes she is a monster but still a good villain), Lute, Sera, Emily, all great female characters. Ok, you dislike Vivienne, you dislike the Hellaverse, but while you can criticize it we can also disagree with your criticism. I tagged this specifically to Hellaverse fans, for them to relate to my point.

Now. Let me try to clarify what I mean to say with my original post. Personally, *I*, I, Lune, wish the Hellaverse had more trans rep. I wish Sally May appeared more, I wish she and Verosika would be a wlw couple, and I want Baxter to be transmasc. *I*, I, Lune, wish there was a brazilian character, because I would love to see someone of my culture to be represented in a show that I love. But you know what? All of this, it's a *ME* problem. Not Vivienne', not Brandon's, not Spindlehouse's, not Prime Video's, a me problem. Authors dont need to write what you or I want, they write what they want. Being critical of the media you consume is different than having beef with the authors because their writing didnt go as you wanted. Neither Helluva nor Hazbin are finished, what about we wait before criticizing or aproving everything, hm? Imagine if I take my frustation about a brazilian character not existing in the Hellaverse to the point of saying, "nah the creators are anti-brazilian because yes". Nu-uh.

Also,

This is the third or fourth person that, instead of foccusing in what I'm saying in the comment section, checks what I say in my bio/tags/post/whatever to use against me. Can we stop that? Please? It's not cute. We can both like media literacy and disagree with each other, I'm not ashamed to say that bringing up Angel's flaws to prove Viv is fetishizing mlm couples is bad.

Something that I learned about queer media: nothing will never be enough. The stupiest reasons will cause people to create a witch hunt against authors and accuse them of real bigotry. "Your representation didn't go exactly as I wanted, therefore you are a monster and a real danger to real people."

If your media has flawless heroic little puppies queers, it's trash and horrible and liking it makes you a terrible person. If your queer characters are not flawless heroic little puppies, then they're evil and you hate queer people (even if you are queer yourself).

It's sad that the same people preaching about love and acceptance are the same and first ones to attack and harrass queer creators and built unsafe space for people that love and relate to flawed characters. And I'm not even entering the anti-sex positivity discussion and how liking porn and including it in your stories is bad and fetishization and dirty, some "progressive" people have the same views as alt right boomers

[dontwarnthetadpoles]

@girl4music

“Why do I have to be the adult? Why can’t I ever be Lil’ Pumpkin Belly?” she says when she is an actual adult. But yeah, I totally get you.

Putting aside the fact that Buffy should have avoided Angel if only because he was a vampire with a past of serial killer, just because her mission as a slayer forced her to mature quicker than the people of her age doesn't mean she was emotionally mature as a 16 year old and able to recognize a sexual predator or to fight the power he held on her.

As someone who was forced to take responsabilities that she was too young to assume and considering how it's something that affected too her personal life with the death of her mother and the charge to take care of Dawn, i think it's quite normal that she wants to drop everything and just gets the chance to be carefree. Being a slayer since she was 15 years old robbed her from taking her time and enjoying the present moment.

See - it’s a lot more complicated than “good” and “evil”. There’s a whole spectrum there just as there is with sexuality.

There's no wrong or right when it comes to manipulating a underage girl to have sex with her. It's purely a crime and one for which Angel would have deserved to be condemned if he had been human.

I pointed this out last night in one of my posts that the writers clearly seem to have some kind of rape/sexual assault fetish given the way they write rape/sexual assault situations and not state that it is rape/sexual assault in the writing or dialogue between the characters most of the time.

In fact, the only times they do is 1. with Warren (who they already decided was a bad guy) and 2. with Spike (who doesn’t have a soul and they use his attempt rape/sexual assault of Buffy as a catalyst to push him to get his soul).

Every other time it happens - not a word that it is what it is.

Not a single one.

When Xander assaulted Buffy in The Pack, the writers didn't shy to tell it like it was. Buffy summarized it as: "He tried his hand at felony sexual assault".

When Xander used a spell to win back Cordelia's and break her heart but it worked instead on the entire woman population, all girls and women threw themselves at him, including Buffy and Willow, Buffy called his actions a call to: "the great Roofie spirit".

When a school team swimmer tried to force himself on Buffy in Go Fish, the writers made a point to show us how he locked her in his car and how Snyder, the coach and the gang were completely judgemental and had the worst possible inappropriate answer.

When Tara realized that Willow used the memory spell to erase their fights and that they had sex during that time, she confronted her on her lack of respect for her consent and broke up with her later for that.

What was left unanswered was Angel's visit to Buffy's room in Amends. He was unhinged and dominated by his sexual urges and the way the camera zoomed from his point of view between Buffy and her bed means clearly rape was in his mind. But he didn't touch her, so it's hard to tell what can be made of it.

And the biggest problem was of course the two scenes between Willow and Spike in Lovers Walk and The Initiative. Each time, he vamped in front of her with a clear sexual intention. I read that in the dvd commentary of the episode of The Initiative, the writer said the assault in her dorm room was intentionally filmed as rape scene (and it looked like a rape scene: he pushed her on the bed, was on top of her amused by her useless attempt to fight back, she was screaming and crying), which make their following supposedly funny dialogue about his "performance" disgusting and hard to understand, unless it was supposed to show that she was submitting traumatized, acting like a victim of the Stockholm syndrome who would have sided with her agressor to survive (but even in this case the comical tone was really inappropriate).

not angel taking buffy’s virginity just before her seventeenth birthday. don’t give me the “but she’s the slayer! it’s different!” wrong. buffy is the slayer, but she is also a 16 year old girl in love with a 200 year old vampire for her first boyfriend. her judgement is influenced by her youthful and intense feelings of first love. angel is a seasoned, tortured killer from the 1800’s who got cursed with feelings. he knows better. buffy was a minor. and he “fell in love” with her when she was fifteen. i don’t hate bangel, but this is something that is hard for me to get past.