#but marika's love was all it took for this one

[maranull]

the Revered Spirit Ashes we find in the Bonny Village are the remains of Marika's first partner

she was just a simple, unimportant smith's apprentice but was revered by Marika, and her love and admiration alone was enough to create the Ashes that remained there for millennia

[drenched-in-sunlight]

*SoTE spoilers undercut

This is a continued discussion in light of Marika's newly discovered tragedy. It changes so many things about how we look at the story thus far but more importantly - the DLC story trailer, especially this scene:

think about how Messmer knows, very acutely, that at one point his mother could have been cut up and put in a jar. and that his other kins were not so lucky....... it gives that scene such a tragic edge.

he wasn't doing this just for the violence. this is his answer to Marika's love and all she has done for him. yeah it's not right, it's not justified, but as something done to avenge for the kind of pain she went through? it won't be logical nor right but it's something he will do again without hesitation.

the infirmary in Shadow's Keep shows that he's trying to care for and save whatever left of her people. their people.

the line he said in his armor set description hits different when you consider all that. he wants to be the heir to all her sorrow and all of her pain. wishing that he could alleviate even just a bit of the burden of her grief and survivor guilt.

i wonder if, when Marika hid him in the Land of Shadow, fearing people will judge him for the malevolent snake he carried, she raised him in her home village? this will explain why the Tree Sentinels guarding the village drop two Blessing of Marika - the blessing that specifically stated Marika made it for Messmer's sake and him alone. it will also explain how he knew of his Mother's tragic past and took it upon himself to carry out her wish of vengeance for her people.

(also if you wanted to get to Marika's village, you have to perform the O Mother gesture before her statue in his Shadow Keep, implying he's guarding the way to her home village as well.)

One other thing I like is that in the story trailer, the heroic music sounds like it's for Miquella. and it is, in a way. it is his boss music, but the lyrics has "Ave Marika Aeterna" (Hail, Marika The Eternal).

Given that the boss arena is where Marika - the sole survivor of a whole village, walked through to salvage the remains of her people, making them the symbol of her divine ascension, I wonder if that OST is actually for her - the God, the woman whose story is finally realized in this DLC, and those female voices singing in honour of her are the spirits of her fallen kins: cheering on their last hope for justice. Through this girl, those people who had been wronged and died there will live on eternally.

All this of course seems like such a charitable take on all this, after all Marika ended up being just like the oppressors who used to put her people in jars, but I think I just want to appreciate how the environmental storytelling of this DLC is simply amazing. and once you consider that this is, in the end, Marika's story, everything will make a lot more sense.

[space-blue]

A Radical Messmer Theory

OKAY so hear me out.

I think we're all on top of things regarding how much Marika used to care for Messmer despite the embivalence of their relationship.

On one hand you have the OP healing vials she created for him and him only. You have his love and dedication to her. You have her taking his eye and giving her a seal that both locks the serpent but also hides the fact that he is GRACELESS.

Then you'll have things like how he hates his flame and tried to be rid of it, yet was clearly made to fight with it, in her name. How he wishes for hate and resentment to come to him and not her, yet she seems to have abandoned him.

BUT CONSIDER THIS!!

What if Marika sealed him away to keep him safe?

Because... If you are of the opinion that Marika has orchestrated the entire thing. That she exiled Godfrey and his people asking them to come back stronger because she was laying out a plan... That she hooked Ranni up with numen warriors to engineer Godwyn's death, then broke the Elden Ring purposefully...

And then took her punishment and set out to *wait* for the Tarnished to return and free her from the control of the Elden Beast...

Then it's possible that she veiled Messmer and exiled him to protect him FROM US. From the Shattering War.

After all, we can completely skip the DLC. Killing Mogh is completely optional. And the only reason we enter the shadow realm is because Miquella has discovered something of the gate of divinity and has been cooking up a plan for ages as well.

Miquella got thwarted and has been forced to wait in stasis until someone killed Radahn AND Mogh for ages. The moment he does, we have the opportunity to enter and follow, and because of that we have to kill Messmer.

But Marika's grace leads the way! you argue. Not until a certain point though, and most importantly: once Miquella is on his way to become a god (partially through your actions freeing the tower from shadows) then he becomes someone you need to kill because he's threatening the old order.

Marika is gambling on us, and when Miquella rises, she leads the way towards us defeating him and his consort, and then back to the main purpose.

But there's no reason to go kill Messmer. And if we don't, we can easily stipulate that Miquella's happy go lucky band of misfits also wouldn't have managed to bring him down, trapping Miquella's soul in the of shadows, once more in stasis waiting for a hurdle to be overcome for him.

It makes sense then, that the land of shadows, all considered, is the safest place for one of Marika's children to be. Out of the way. Without a great rune. He protects something she wants to keep secret, but maybe the secret itself protects him.

She sent him on that crusade around the time she married Radagon. Everyone theorises she wanted him out of the way to either have his true nature hidden out of shame or to protect him from backlash at the time, but imo she sent him to seal him away because :

1- she knows he's endlessly loyal and devoted

2- it gets her revenge underway and keeps her secrets

3- it gets Messmer out of the public eye in the moment

4- it keeps Messmer SAFE from the dark shit she's got planned that will wreck the lands between.

The Messmer most beloved son theory! The good Tarnished doesn't play the DLC, or does just long enough to run around but leaves Messmer alive and Miquella forever blue balled.

[trulyumai]

the beginning of the end - (I)

—Pairing: past! Messmer / Reader

synopsis: finally, the story could be told. the first glance Messmer took upon his wife.

warnings: family disputes, lots of fluff, Messmer on edge.

enjoy!

How did Messmer meet his wife?

Now, that’s a story laid in ashes; burned down along with the capital, surrounded in the ghosts of grace.

But somewhere— deep, deep down in the core of living, their story resides.

And it will be told today.

The festivals began with a loud bang. Quite literally, as catapults shot off arrows in the sky, with gold and white flowers adorning the tip. Flowers rained down upon the merriment of people.

Everyone was happy— for Queen Marika had chosen an heir.

Her eldest, Godwyn, perched himself upon the balcony, waving gracefully to the citizens below.

Behind him, his siblings lay in line.

Morgott, a silent but stoic man, always seen in the line of duty.

Mohg, who was a little out of sorts, but worthy nonetheless stood with his hands clasped behind his back, squinting upon the masses.

Then lay the half siblings. Of course there was Malenia, the most fearsome with a blade yet elegant. Beside her was Miquella— long hair flowed down upon his white robes and it was hard not to stare. There was something quite… mesmerizing about him, wasn’t there?

Radahn stood furthest in the back, for he was the widest— and biggest of the siblings.

And lastly there was Ranni, perched upon the side of the building with ease. She was always so far away— looking upon the sky with endearment.

But… there seems to be one missing, right?

Ah, yes.

The everliving flame. Messmer.

If it wasn’t for his mother’s obvious shame; the tall flame would have been up there too, basking in the light, the love. For what more could a man like him need?

Instead, he had trudged his way through the empty town. For all the residents lay upon the capital, screaming and cheering for his dear sibling. Godwyn the golden.

“Regrettable.” He growled. Mad his mother had brushed him away. Mad that he couldn’t stand in glory just like his own blood.

All because of some rumored curse. Bah.

His feet soon met with soft ground; flowers adorned the spaces in every which way, in every color and shade. It would have been a peaceful sight if the man’s hands hadn’t burned with utter contempt.

He hadn’t even realized he walked so far. And to the flower lands no less. Somewhere he was forbidden to cross, for his, “curse,” had put it at risk.

If only he had blonde hair. If only he hadn’t picked up the flames, this all could be so easy!

“E-excuse me, sir knight?” Whipping around, his hands instantly went to seize the neck of the one who interrupted him. Only to pause, just barely grazing his fingernails across their neck.

It was a… woman?

Squealing at the sudden action, she reeled back, dropping the basket of flowers and herbs with a clunk.

“I’m sorry— im so sorry!” Confusion etched around Messmers features, taking his hand back he stood tall, instantly towering over the poor girl.

He eyes her suspiciously. Sure, she looked harmless with those wet eyes, little frame and sunkissed face, but who was he to assume? Ranni looked innocent enough to, yet held the force of a moon between her palms.

“State thou’s purpose.” The girls lip wobbled, brushing her shaking hands off her dress she nodded.

“I— im a gatherer, sir knight. I collect uhm, herbs and florals for the town,” she blinked slowly at the red haired man and he did nothing butch watch on, analyzing each breath— each move she took.

“And why is your… stature so close to thys own?”

She let out a shaky smile, it ran across her face smoothly and perfect teeth shined back brightly at the man.

She was indeed lovely to look at.

“I— I thought you could use some company, or, perhaps a flower?”

Messmer squinted. “Flower?”

It only made the girl smile wider, as she looked around curiously for her basket of goodies.

“Yes! Of course, flowers help with everything.”

“Flowers help with nothing.” The flame scoffed, already itching to leave the girls presence.

Her expression had changed almost instantly and Messmer wanted to set himself ablaze. A torn look ran across her, mixed with confusion, sadness. Never before had such a man spoken to her so… loosely.

“W-well that’s not true,” she rebutted, already grabbing out a special plant for the man.

She felt the familiar texture and pulled the flower lightly, until both their eyes settled upon it.

It was a Erdleaf flower. It was so bright, shining on with golden purpose. The petals were held delicately upon the bud and the stem was being placed into the man’s hands before he could blink.

“You’re of royal descent. Gold shines through your blood like no other, so it’s perfect!” She beamed. Her hands had grazed his in the process, and gods, were they soft. So much smaller than his too.

“I don’t have anything in exchange,” he breathed out. Entranced by the order of petals and the way it sat upon his monstrous hands.

No one had spoken so softly to him before. Or even acknowledged his fealty to the golden order.

So for her to say it so easy; so casually. It made the man sag with newfound joy and comfortability.

“That’s okay, it’s a gift!” Her neck was starting to get sore from looking up upon the flame. Yet she stood there still, lovingly gazing from him to the flower perched upon his palms.

“Just take care of it for me, okay?” Already grabbing at the heavy basket, the lady began to back away waving goodbye to the royal knight warmly.

Messmer could do nothing but watch.

‘Say something you fool!’ He had thought, but it was too late, she was too far, her frame a mere dot in his vision.

Tingles erupted upon his body. He didn’t understand it. To feel so hot, yet cold at the same time.

Surely this isn’t.. adoration?

He shook his head, of course not. Such a thing has no place in a mind like his.

Finally gaining control over his senses, the man marched back.

And it was so silly, to see a man of his stature, cradling an erdleaf flower between his hands.

[wordslikesilver]

I love what this DLC redefined about Melina. I never took to the gloam eyed queen theories, and now we learned about two incredible things in the DLC. The Minor Erdtree incantation finally explains in truth what the concept of Unalloyed Gold is, it is kindness without Order. I take this to refer to one’s love for a specific reason I’ll elaborate on in a moment. This explains several things. First, the flaw Marika discovered in the golden order was its compassion, its love and kindness. No matter what you think of the golden order as a regime, it still had that value of kindness deep down inside and that’s the flaw that goldmask identifies. The flaw within Marika herself that leaves her doomed by the narrative. It couldn’t be the Order that was the flaw, because that’s what failed Miquella when he tried to cure his sister of the rot. Miquella’s entire platform was kindness and acceptance of all. That’s the unalloyed gold that healed Malenia. Marika needed the Radagon aspect of herself to convince her Order was worth it all. And then she’d reached her limit and could take no more of it all. Enough. No more of this golden order. No more Erdtree. No more Elden Ring or greater Will or fingers pulling strings. Enough. And surely there was only one way in all the world she’d cope with the pain of losing Godwyn, of possibly even arranging his death so that the plan could be set in motion.

This is where the most beautiful tragedy of the DLC comes in. Miquella and saint Trina. He severs his love from his existence so that he could become a god. We learn that a demigod/god can sever parts of themselves that become living entities. This is how Radagon came to exist. But more importantly, this is how Melina came to exist. Melina, who fights with the grace of a black knife Numen woman, who keeps destined death sealed within her eye, who dreams of fire. Melina, who is kind and gentle and soft spoken. The girl who knows deep in her heart that no matter how grim it all may feel, there is hope and love in this world. The girl who can cast the ultimate healing incantation, minor Erdtree, and a version of it that we the players can’t even match in size and radiance. The kindness of gold, without order. Melina is Marika’s unalloyed gold, shriven clean from her body and given life. Her love, her kindness and all her weakness, turned into a young maiden who wants nothing more in all the world than to save her own mother from her suffering. Just like St Trina begs us to save Miquella from godhood, Melina begs us to help her free her mother from the prison of the Erdtree and godhood itself.

I love that this DLC recontextualizes Melina’s entire existence as Marika saying “If my love and my kindness are a flaw, then I will use them to burn this fucking place to the ground.”

Put on your tinfoil hat on for this last part but it’s too good not to think about, Melina fights like a black knife and carries destined death within her. Imagine if she was there that night to kill Godwyn. His mother’s love and kindness being the one to kill her most beloved child. Lower his guard, maybe. It’s so fucking raw imagining that and I lose my mind picturing the scene.

[magpie-come-east]

One of the reasons Elden Ring stuck with me so long and intensely- more than other media I really really like- is because everything about it is an invitation for exploration.

Morgott and Mohg never acknowledge one another. But we can look at the world around us and imagine what their relationship was like. We know about the importance of the bonds of twins, and can infer from there. We can see how they are foils of one another. What doesn’t Morgott label him a traitor when it’s very apparent Mohg wants to overthrow the GO? What does that mean?

Elden Ring is a game where characterization is fed to us in tiny slivers, and the rest is up to us to interpret using what we know of the world around us.

Sure, Morgott isn’t mentioned by name in SOTE, but Hornsent lore is tangentially lore for the Omen. We now understand why Marika revoked Grace from them and imprisoned her own children. The Formless Mother lore is Mohg lore- we now know she is either attracted to people who suffer greatly, or is worshipped by suffering peoples. This implicates a lot about Mohg.

Miquella doesn’t wax on about how Malenia is his most favorite sister in the whole world, but his love for her is apparent. He went to Aeonia to tend to those wounded by Scarlot Rot. Malenia stated she is ‘awaiting his return’, showing the faith she has in his strength and will. He took on the role of leader and ‘parent’ for the Rot kindred and forager brood- the creatures of Rot that Malenia distanced herself from.

I could go on forever, but it’s all there. Mileage may vary for some people I suppose, but I find this (usually) more interesting and satisfying than having a character look me in the eye and ‘validate’ my head canons for me.

[indexvirus]

So, what do we think about this?

It's actually strange how, the more I read into SotE, the more I feel Miquella is not intentionally evil.

It's ironic. Before the DLC, my headcanon pretty much was him having Griffith-esque themes, wanting to make his own Falconia.

And now when the DLC has come out with all it implies, I feel I'm wrong. I feel increasingly there is a "tragic misunderstanding of one's own self and limits" leading to "end justifies the means" to "road to hell is paved with good intentions" here.

SotE doesn't undo Miquella's kindness.

He very much is still the character who grew frustrated with the uselessness of the Golden Order when it offered no deliverance for his suffering sister (Radagon's Ring of Light),

who fed his own blood to a sapling in hopes it would grow into a new Erdtree and provide a haven for the outcast (Haligtree Knight Armour, Old Albus Dialogue, Royal Knight Helm),

who developed unalloyed gold to ward off effects of outer gods such as the frenzied flame (Unalloyed Gold Needle, Note: Miquella's Needle),

and who wished to free Godwyn of his suffering (Golden Epitaph).

Miquella observes, learns and improves upon. What did he learn to make the decisions he did? To take the same path his mother took, inspired by the suffering inflicted on those dear to them, believing firmly the sacrifices would "fix the world".

Both made a promise/vow/prayer we never hear fully (Final Cutscene, Golden Braid).

The suffering of the Tarnished, of Godfrey, of the Misbegotten and the Omen for peace and order. The suffering of the Haligtree, of Malenia, of Radahn and Mohg, for equality and compassion.

Marika separated Radagon from herself, but love was what broke her, so Miquella separated St. Trina from himself and divested himself of his love.

But unlike Marika, who realized the mistakes she'd made and chose to defy the Greater Will, and Radagon who stayed delusionally loyal, it was Miquella who was delusional, and St. Trina who realized what a terrible mistake was in the making and what terrible mistakes had already been made...

St. Trina is Miquella. This is him asking "Make me stop, don't let me become a god, you must kill me, grant me forgiveness". At some point he realized what he'd done and only death would grant him forgiveness for it...

For what kind of a god would he become when he'd abandoned all he'd promised to save.

[katyspersonal]

The MAIN cast of Elden CRING, a HIT game by FromSLOP ✨

Mommyrika - The sweetest, the nicest, the kindest, the loveliest and the most beautiful person in the entire Lands Between, no, in the entire universe that The Greater Whim created! :3 All she wants is for everyone to be happy and have a nice tea party! Everyone is so mean to her for no reason smh when she is just trying to be a good mother! >_< You can't even TELL that she is a mother because she is so petite and innocent and child-like! Despite her horrible trauma she didn't let it break her from being such a perfect ray of sunshine for everyone!

Chadagohn - Some absolute jerk that Greater Whim personally shoved into Marika's being out of pure spite, who doesn't know how to do anything but being oppressive and ruining everything! He lives just to randomly decide to start wars lmao no matter how much Mommyrika tried to fix him. He did literally every bad thing during the time Golden Order existed and Mommyrika was not able to do anything against him because of his super powerful gigachad aura clashing with her kind and soft one, however, she heroically tried to take the blame for his actions upon herself! Shame that some misogynists won't see through the charade, some of ya'll are weirdly obsessed with "giving female character agency" as long as it is about something bad ����

Miq Griffin - I don't actually know if I got his last name right I just remember it started with 'griff-' lmao but he is just some evil manipulator that also likes to randomly reverse-groom already vulnerable people because he is eeeevil :3 Miq Griffin even has been pretending to care about his family and those who Chadagohn oppressed all to create a cult of crazy simps that will praise his name! He is ABSOLUTELY a child of his father Chadagohn but how the FUCK someone as pure as Mommyrika produced this manipulative monster? Well, it is because Chadagohn was not letting Mommyrika raise Miq Griffin at all by keeping her away with his gigachad aura.

Hellbent (race) - A race so evil and unhinged that as soon as even their infants are born their first words are "DEATH FOR INNOCENT", and only then "mom" or "dad". They are named this because they're so hellbent on spreading EVIL just because they can for no apparent reason like trap of corrupt religious cult or lagging behind culturally that nothing could cure them but Total Hellbent Death. They are literally SO evil that Fail God himself had enough of them and tried to obliterate them but got distracted to curse Mommyrika instead because her good vibes piss people off. But then Hellbent didn't think she had enough and cursed people that lived under her reign with OWEN Curse that makes your body sprout CROISSANTS and also spew some FIRE like if you were an owen. Just because they could do it and because they're EVIL and everything KIND and bright (like Mommyrika) makes them angry.

Mommy Boyssmer - The Mommyrika's most special mommy's boy that she loved more than her other children because he was the most disabled! He heroically took it upon himself to rid the world of Hellbent's evil just so nobody would dare to think Mommyrika is capable of negative emotions but somehow weird Hellbent's sympathisers still assigned the holy mission of Croissant-sade to her name because they're misogynists 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ He is such a softie you can tell Mommyrika's kindness rubbed off on him, but people want him dead not because of his actions but because he is a snek! Well Weirdtree does have a bias against sneks but it was Chadagohn's fault it exists. What a shame. Hopefully someday Hellbent will be dead so he can reunite with the only person that ever cared for him :3 Well he is also engaged with Irrel-levana, but Irrel-levana is actually just a brainless puppy-eyed Mommyrika's simp with no agency or ideology that only wants to marry him for Mommyrika's peace and happiness!

Mor-Goat and Momg - Two Owens and just other victims of the curse of Hellbent, as well as Chadagohn and Miq Griffin respectively. Well yeah you think they did something bad, like hunting Vargramnished for sport or kidnapping them (and some others) to indoctrinate them into evil blood cult? Wake up, all of this is just because Chadagohn demanded oppressing Owens and Mommyrika could do nothing to protect her own children from his gigachad wishes, and then Miq Griffin brainwashed Momg too into doing all this for a good measure! They're otherwise very sweet and chill and soft people who really just want a hug! Actually this whole time they wanted to hug Vargramnished they've met but Chadagohn's orders + Miq Griffin's charms respectively didn't let them and twisted their love into something eeeeeevil!

Libe-ranni or Ranni the Bitch - An enigmatic figure whose motivations remain unclear because of FromSLOP's shitty writing where they can't even explain their own characters normally :/ Because of this, some believe she is a hero who eliminated some nasty people to overthrow Chadagohn's and Greater Whim's awful plans to make everyone suffer for some reason, when others are just seething at the girlboss winning and believe she is an evil manipulator and schemer who just hated everything good. Some say she killed Forgotwyn because he was actually cringe and eeeeevil under guise of radiant kind boy, as evidenced by someone as evil as Miq Griffin admiring him, other say that Forgotwyn offered himself as willing sacrifice but FORGOT that a bunch of other Demigods would be killed too lmao rofl. Well Elden Cring is not a place for morally grey, complicated or machiavellian characters anyway smh so pick your camp (but also if you pick wrong you are a media illiterate looser :3).

Forgotwyn - A character that FromSLOP fucking abandoned after having built up soooooOOOOO much shit for him to be important!!!! We got literally NOTHING about Forgotwyn in the base game, are you fucking kidding me?! All they did with him was to just add a questline and whole ending focused on him, elaborated him in the story of Miq Griffin and Melanea with a plan to revive him and conclusion of Miq Griffin giving up and just wishing him true death and made him the reason for a whole political allyship and school of magic in the setting! Why do they hate this character so much and refuse to elaborate on him?! Fromslop has tremendous disrespect for its fans smh

Godfreak - Really the most pathetic character who only exists as the laughing stock despite what some weirdos that can't read subtexts will cope with LMAOOOO 😭😭😭 He even hunts Vargramnished just like Mor-Goat but at least Mor-Goat had an excuse upon being oppressed by Chadagohn's Order, what is Godfreak's excuse huh? He can't accomplish anything and isn't worth anything and he is ugly and also stinks and also the worst lover ever flowers wilt when he enters the room milk goes bad when he enters the room people on the portraits become animated just to turn away from him when he enters the room mirrors shatter just to not reflect his ugly ass face all while he is also so pathetic that he literally can ONLY steal shit! He stole his Great Rune shard, he stole the castle he is in, he even stole his family name and he is not ACTUALLY a part of the Golden Lineage because how can someone so UGLY and PATHETIC descend from Mommyrika? Clearly he is not a Demigod but just lying to everyone to be worth anything at all because he is worth nothing HAHAHA LOOK GUYS HE IS SO SHIT HAHAHA POINT AND LAUGH AT HIM GUYS HE IS SOOOO DISGUSTING HE IS NOT WORTH THE TIME OF THE DAY HE WILL NEVER HAVE BITCHES GRAFTED SCIONS WERE ALSO SOME HE STOLE JUST TO LIE THAT SOMEONE SLEPT WITH HIM BUT WHO WILL BELIEVE THIS LIE LMAOOOOOO HE IS SO PATHETIC AND INCAPABLE THAT HE HAD TO RIP A DRAGON'S HEAD OFF JUST TO PUT UP ANY FIGHT AND IT WAS STILL PATHETIC AND NOT BECAUSE HE IS THE FIRST 'TRUE' BOSS IT IS BECAUSE HE SUCKS DELETE HIM FROM FAMILY PORTRAITS OF DEMIGODS RESTORE THE TRUTH IN THE NAME OF OUR FRIEND CANNOT HAIGHT

Vargramnished - It is actually a whole type of people and not just one person, but they get their title because for some weird reason their most prominent member is Vargram. Nobody knows how he managed to escape his imprisonment at the Roundtable, lose his iconic sword and outfit, go live overseas, then be brought back in the Lands Between, be picked by Current and then upon his adventures even fight himself at some point but just roll with it I guess lol.

F and Dia - A few of characters who are just another example of overpresent misogyny tropes in Fromslop's works because God forbid woman does anything 🙄 Those Who Chill in Death are just some nice people who enjoy chill existence without soul, they aren't miserable they just act like I do when I have classes early in the morning lmao tf are you talking about?! But F can't stand them existing because he is just a raging bigot and kills people who just try to be happy. Honestly he should have been born amongst Hellbent with how much he craves blood of innocent 🤦‍♂️ At least Dia like a good wholesome mother that she is will protect everyone, huge shame that F (the other F) could not see the reasoning in her hunting his equally bigoted brother and got butthurt lol! The other F should have been called L instead because this is what he needs to hold xD

Cringeon Oof-nir - Just some pathetic dude that doesn't actually know shit lmao, he clearly didn't read all these books but was just browsing through them for pictures because he is a dumbass and can't read lol XD All the stuff he's telling us should not be taken as legit trait of his character come on, Fromslop simply needed a way to dump exposition on us, why they'd write a smart well informed character? As for the insane variety of the spells he's using, again, Fromslop just needed a way to still showcase the spells they've programmed in case if players correctly miss out on them because there is only one valid build to play (source: an argument I had on Reddit)! If they wanted to write a smart character then why he didn't know that one thing he didn't until we helped??? Clearly it is because he is actually a moron, also lazy fence sitter who is just using us! Gideon the All-Coping! Hahaha!

The Greater Whim - Somehow despite being a literal force that created existence itself and life and universe it is petulant enough to descend to very specific pocket of existence only to screw over Mommyrika as it ALSO can't stand her just vibing and being happy, or screw over other people. Everything bad assigned to Mommyrika that can't be blamed on Chadagohn is blamed on the Greater Whim. This is so sad how Mommyrika literally never has a choice and is always forced to do bad stuff because everyone except for her just wants to do evil smh >_<

Melanea - Ok I've mentioned that Mommyrika will love the afflicted child more than a healthy one by proxy uhhh. I've had a piece of paper where absent lore on Melanea in this regard was written but I gave it to the person who thinks everything above is super interesting and compelling writing so they can roll another bong :/ But from all evidence we were given Chadagohn probably used his chad power to keep Mommyrika away from Melanea and not let her care for her smh. And as if that was not enough, Miq Griffin always had her brainwashed. Melanea only was so loyal to him and had faith in him because she was under his spell. It was obvious, wasn't it? Who could ever genuinely love someone as evil and scheming as Miq Griffin anyway? The bastard even created a statue of him and Melanea hugging just so people would not see through his evil manipulative master plan! Eh female characters in Fromslop's works can't have agency anyways, really wish Melanea and others were kept far away from cringe evil men (not Mommy Boyssmer tho, he is good because Mommyrika's love saved him before Chadagohn sabotaged it :3)

[bellepeppergirl]

Radahn Didn't Want This

I've seen a lot of fan content lately about Radahn and Miquella consensually becoming one another's consort, and while I can somewhat understand how people came to this conclusion, I do not believe it to be accurate. I do not think Radahn wanted to be Miquella's Lord nor Consort.

For starters, I feel as though it would completely go against what Radahn is. He idolizes the past; the eras of Godfrey and Radagon where they fought wars unending in the name of the Erdtree and the Golden Order. He stylizes himself after them, brandishing lions and his red hair to show his connection. I do not believe he would want Miquella's age. Not only would that age be against what Godfrey and Radagon fought for, but it would also likely be an age too peaceful for Radahn.

Secondly, we know Radahn learned gravity magic so that he could fight the stars, holding them in place. Why did he do that? We didn't know, but we are informed that Radahn has to die and this has to be undone so that Ranni can become a god, because freezing the stars also froze fate. I think there's two reasons he did this; to stop Ranni from becoming a god, and to stop himself from becoming Miquella's consort. He knew Miquella wanted him, he knew Miquella had the ability to sway anyone over, so he seized the stars to ensure it couldn't happen. To remedy this, Miquella sent out Malenia and her Cleanrot Knights during the Shattering to defeat Radahn, thus stopping his gravity magic and allowing Miquella's plan to go through. I think this is also why he's still alive after Malenia nuked him; he is absolutely determined to not be Miquella's Lord; to not lose his own control. The determination is what keeps him going despite the fact that his brain is literally rotted away.

Then we have the fact that Miquella is not exactly a stranger to doing things nonconsensually. The entire party in the DLC was brainwashed by him, including Ansbach, who desperately wanted revenge against Miquella. He also took advantage of Mohg and used him to gain access to the Realm of Shadow and revive Radahn. Miquella doesn't believe anything he is doing is wrong. He is permanently a child after all, so he is naive and believes that, regardless of what you want, what he wants is more important because, in his eyes, it's what is right and what is going to fix the world. Miquella throws out various parts of himself, including his love, and I think that this could also imply that he is trying to rid himself of the guilt he feels for taking advantage of people, including Radahn.

We also can have our hearts stolen during the final battle of the DLC and, when this happens, we do the Let Us Go Together emote, which strongly resembles you reaching out for someone's hand as if to marry them, or be their consort. A possible link to the fact that this is what happened to Radahn.

And speaking of the fight, halfway through it, Radahn begins to glow red. This stops, however, when Miquella arrives and climbs atop Radahn's back, beginning the second phase. During this phase, Miquella's placement on Radahn's back and shoulder greatly resembles Serosh's position of Godfrey. Serosh's purpose was to hold Godfrey back; to prevent him from acting as Horah Loux so that he would be more suiting to Marika's goals and desires. I think a similar thing is happening here; Radahn is breaking free and Miquella is taking position upon his back and using his powers of seduction to keep that rage, that desire for freedom and status quo, all contained, lest his plans be foiled.

Radahn doesn't even speak during the fight and I really think that, had he been there of his own volition, he would have at least said something. No, it is only ever Miquella who speaks. Not only during the fight, but also during the cutscene at the end. It is Miquella who makes a vow with Radahn. Never once do we hear Radahn's side or answer, only that Miquella wants him to be his Lord.

In fact, if I remember correctly, the original Japanese text in the description of Promised Consort Radahn's weapons straight up say he doesn't want to be Miquella's Lord. I will say to take this with a grain of salt though, as I played the game in English, do not speak Japanese, and do not remember the source of this information. But, given all that I've said, and how common mistranslations actually are in these games, I am still inclined to believe it.

Radahn does not want to be Miquella's Lord. Radahn wants things to stay the same; he wants the era of the Erdtree to stay because the Erdtree had many enemies and it took many wars and genocides to ensure that it rose to power and stayed in power. Radahn stopped fate, likely in an attempt to keep himself free of Miquella's poisoned words, and his determination to be free of the fate Miquella threw upon him is what kept him alive all those years after the Battle of Aeonia. Miquella doesn't understand Radahn's resistance, nor does he accept it. He believes his end justify any means, no matter who gets hurt or who he has to manipulate, just as Marika did before him.

[siringadev]

HQ 3k artwork + steps process Empyreans. Godwyn, Mohg, Malenia, Miquella, Radagon, Marika, Rennala, Radahn.

Plus with a tarnished one, for comparison of heights.

I tried to depict all the characters as close to the original as possible. Without "glamorization, beautification, extra embellishment" (I like it, I just wanted to try something different this time). This artwork took me a LOT of time and effort. It literally sucked out all my emotional strength and energy, I even had to create new brushes for Malenia's decorations and patterns for clothes.

Finding suitable references (many), then carefully comparing them with references when working on each character, placing them in the composition, drawing all the details, and at the same time not copying them photographically, but conveying my own style. I don't know if I managed to convey the emotions, how each of them represents themselves, their stories, their tragedies, their pain and goals. It's hard when they all just stand and look straight ahead. I had to abandon some ideas, for example, they should stand on blood and bodies, their clothes should be covered in blood, as a symbol of the terrible things they did. But I replaced the blood with red grass.

Radagon and Marika are partners and consorts, who are like one person (two sides, female and male, of one person). They have children, twins Miquella and Malenia. Miquella was reborn again as a god, so his adult form is no longer related to this family and the family curse. He is very different from all of them. But he habitually calls Radahn his lord brother, even though he became his consort. Radahn is the son of Radagon and his wife Rennala, Mohg and Godwyn are the sons of Marika from her consort Godfrey. Godwyn was killed before the beginning of the story, so he is depicted with his back to the viewer. We do not see his face. Mohg was fall in love with Miquella and kidnapped him, who turned out to be under Miquella's spell. Mohg died in battle, and Miquella went to the land of shadows. Malenia fought Radahn, infected him with the scarlet rot, after which Miquella took Radahn's soul and resurrected him in the body of Mohg and they became god and his consort. It's all very confusing. This is approximately. This is not exact, there are many details, if you want, study about their lore because I do not want to overload this post with long texts.

References:

[khadgarbignaturals]

my elden ring hill i will always die on is that every single demigod and god are inherently human. for all the horrible things they’ve done, for all of their ethereal and convoluted plans, for all of the wars and conflicts they start, they are human. they feel love and fear and hatred and loss and grief and happiness etc.

marika was always grieving in and even before her godhood. her family and her people were murdered. her children were being born cursed, tormenting them and reminding her of every action she took to become a god. her grief and hatred started the purging war in the land of shadow. her fear started the war against the fire giants. her grief and exhaustion shattered the elden ring. for all the power and influence that comes with being a god, she still feels.

miquella felt real heartbreak for his sister. for the crimes and torment his mother inflicted on the world. for the terrible war that tore his family apart. he watched the world tear itself apart. he tried to make the haligtree a safe haven for people being systematically tortured and murdered by nearly every faction in the lands between, but it was impossible. he couldn’t make his tree accessible without compromising it. so he resolved to change everything, not knowing that the path ahead will change even the kindest of people into a monster.

radahn learned gravity magic to ride his horse. he loved leonard so much he amassed enough power to halt the stars. the cut content from the longtail cat talisman stated that the cat was his. radahn loves animals. he loved his father too. this is more lighthearted than the other ones but it still really shows how human he is.

malenia loved her brother. with their debilitating curses, they were always going to be distant from the rest of their family, so when the only person to give them comfort and kindness was killed, they lost the familial connection entirely. after the shattering they only had each other.

ranni was jaded and bitter. she was surrounded by others telling her what she’s supposed to do to become the person she was supposed to become, and that enraged her. she didn’t want to follow that path, so when that path started to get pushed onto her more and more, she snapped and decided to fight against it. she loved blaidd and iji, the people who were more of a family to her than her father and siblings. she loved her mother.

there are too many demigods to do every one of them but you get the gist.

[luminary-vazre]

On SOTE's lore

While my personal interpretation of SOTE's lore might not matter to people I still want to have it written down for posterity's sake (and so I can link to this rather than try to explain it every time I bring it up.) Marika Shadow of the Erdtree goes into Marika's backstory quite heavily- and it explains her actions. I've seen others saying it's trying to justify it, but I fully believe it's not. It's explaining without condoning. We can understand WHY Marika acted the way she did, even if we still fully believe what she did was wrong.

Marika escapes the hell the Hornsent put her and her people through, and through some twisted act of fate (Perhaps organized by Metyr, since we know the greater will doesn't interact directly with the lands between often if at all) ascends to divinity through the Divine Gate.

She then returns home, only to find her people gone. Extinct, save for her- and she's not exactly a person, anymore.

The crosses of Miquella show us the route Miquella took to godhood. It's explicitly described as agonizing to make those crosses, to tear parts of himself away- to remove what made him human(ish, I'm not exactly sure how different an Empyrean is from a human.) and... Marika took this same route to ascension. She had to do this same thing. To tear her body apart, to remove her love, her doubt, her fear- everything that would have kept her in check once she became a god. Everything that could have held back her ambitions. And, like Miquella discarding St Trina, she must have tossed away Radagon.

It is little wonder that once she became a divinity, retribution was not far behind her. There was nothing but ambition, and the memory of the hornsent's cruelty, left of her by then.

The Minor Erdtree miracle found in Marika's home describes it as her first miracle. If we got Crosses of Marika like we got crosses of Miquella, I'm positive this would be the spot that says 'here I leave my love.'

Marika wanted to save everyone from the hornsent- her people couldn't be saved, they were already gone. But she could create a new order, one without the barbarity of the Hornsent's actions. Without the horrible butchery and the jar gaols.

But... in the end, you have to protect your order. And without her kindness, her doubt, her love, her compassion.. all things she left behind on her path to godhood, Marika became a cold, calculating, absolutely and totally dedicated ruler. She would accept no threat to her order's existence, and in doing so, she became the very monster she set out to prevent from happening again.

Again, we now understand, but not condone, her actions against Mohg and Morgott. The Omen were holy to the hornsent, chosen by their gods. Marika, having survived the Hornsent's cruelty, only to see the signs of their gods in her children- it's not hate that drove her to hide the twins away, it was fear. Fear that they were chosen by the hornsent's cruel gods. It does not in any way make what she did to them OK or right, but it explains why she did it.

Marika paved the road to hell in her good intentions- and then, once she was done, and the crusade began, she set about tearing the paving up so no one could follow her. She had Belarut burned, she shrouded Enir-Ilim and the divine gate in shadow, and grew the sealing tree, which could only be burned by Messmer (or his killer.)

She knew the truth of the divine gate- that it was built from the bones and flesh of her people, that it was an artifact born of unfathomable cruelty and malice. Whatever power it gave, whatever god you would become using it, it wasn't worth it. I believe Marika looked back and saw the monster she'd become, and wanted to be sure no one could make that mistake.

Miquella.

Miquella was not evil. At least, not at first. Born cursed, Miquella grew up in the world of the golden order. Seeing its cruelty firsthand, seeing what it did to the alburnaics, to the omen, to anything that wouldn't fit into the order. And, so, he wanted to find a way to uproot it and begin again. And he found it- the lands of shadow, and the divine gate. We don't know how he came to learn of the divine gate, but learn of it he did- and not having the benefit of Marika's hindsight, and her knowledge of what would become of a god made with it, he set about walking the path of apotheosis.

The road to hell, being paved once again, in the good intentions of someone who only wanted to help. Miquella's actions seem cruel and callous because he had already begun casting away everything that made him who he was in preparation to become a god. Mohg, Radahn, Malenia- all became means to an end. Everything was a worthwhile sacrifice for a world with no suffering! He just had to become a god.

All he had to do. Was cross that gate. By any means necessary. Anyone, and anything, that was an obstacle to that goal was standing in the way of a perfect world. And, therefore, must be evil. Something he could defeat, and throw away, knowing his actions were justified. The ends HAD to justify the means. They had to.

[drenched-in-sunlight]

im today year old when i discover the Princess Guard covenant symbol (DS1) literally has a depiction of Gwynevere that looks just like Marika 😭😭

and that's not even the only parallel:

Divine Blessing - Blessing of Marika

all the healing spells

Princess of Sunlight - "the Erdtree was once as warm as the gentle sun"

Twin Princes being implied to be Gwynevere's sons (or grandsons) - DLC final boss

Angelic faith of Lothric (with the Divine Pillars of Light spell that is literally a less damaging version of Light of Miquella incantation) was found by a holy maiden who is also implied to be either Gwynevere's daughter / or granddaughter

im so in love with the idea that they literally just took the one character that was so underdeveloped in Dark Souls (and the butt of the "faith build is viable" joke) & made her THE character of all time with a perfect story from start to finish in Elden Ring (& make faith build ACTUALLY viable too). that's so peak.

(and if you want to broaden it a bit more, there's parallel between Messmer and Halflight Spear of the Church too - a spear-wielding warrior guarding a slumbering princess at the edge of the Abyss, like how Messmer guarded Marika's village - her people's final resting place, that is situated right above Abyss region.

also Messmer - Manus parallel: a man losing someone he loves and so his humanity went wild and he succumbed to the Abyssal darkness. but despite it all, at the core, he's still a viscous, lukewarm lump of gentle humanity, eternally finding something dear that he had lost.)

[epicfroggz]

Would love to see more of your Messmer/Abyssal takes, it’s just really, really fresh and interesting!

Thanks y’all for the asks, I’ll be answering these under one roof since they work for a broad thematic post! On the subject of Messmer’s

Disorder

(long post ahead!)

Definition 1: “The disruption of peaceful and law-abiding behavior.”

If the law is the Golden Order, then the Abyssal Serpent represents the opposite of that, Shadow and Disorder. Seen in the contrast between his two phases: phase 1 Messmer is disciplined like his army, a little bit dramatic, and tired of his role in this charade. His lines are practiced and the way he says his own name worn out. Yet, my purpose standeth unchanged… Phase 2 Messmer, on the other hand, drops all such pretense, his strikes and movements becoming wild and exceedingly violent as he thrashes and twists and crawls upon the ground like the base serpent he is. He sheds all regard for his own safety, like Guts donning the Berserker armor—and the similarities don’t end there. Messmer’s beast of darkness may take on a serpentine shape, but it certainly still represents his hatred, bloodlust, and desire for revenge. Revenge, in this case, against the mother that imprisoned him—a curse upon thee. All his suffering and pent-up negative emotions that he has pushed aside for her sake have been concentrated into one being, and now he will inflict that pain upon you. Embrace thine oblivion, as shall I.

So no, the Abyssal Serpent is certainly not peaceful nor law-abiding; Messmer has forsaken the Order, and embraced his natural state of disorder. Become wild, and free. Returned to the shadows from which he draws his true power—that which made god herself fear him.

And that begs the question—why? Why does he exist? Why did Marika birth such an accursed child, the antithesis to everything she is trying to create?

“A curse upon the strumpet’s progeny, upon Marika’s children each and all.” (Hornsent Grandam dialogue)

“The seduction, and the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born.” (DLC Story Trailer narration)

The Hornsent believe Marika’s ascension a betrayal. Their suffering, alongside Marika’s own suffering at the fate of her people, both coalesced into the twisted immaculate conception of a son. Messmer, son of Marika, who carries the burden of all their curses and despair, and keeps company with the original sin. This was the Greater Will’s “gift” to Marika upon achieving godhood—and so too was Shadow born. A painful reminder of where she came from, what it took to get here—and, since with his flame he could destroy everything she built, a reminder of her place. She is, as much as Miquella would have been, a divinity caged. (Reason #326 why Marika had Messmer sealed away in the Land of Shadow…)

Definition 2: “An illness or condition that disrupts normal physical or mental functions.”

Does the Abyssal Serpent have a personality—yes, Messmer’s! But more specifically, it is the personification (snake-ification?) of Messmer’s personality disorder. Before the seal, his behavior would have certainly fallen outside the norms of his culture and caused problems, as such disorders are defined. He had strange habits, was prone to violence, and often acted upon primal instinct. His overall experience was quite different from that of everyone else. Between his own serpentine nature and the winged serpents, his senses were sharper, he felt emotions (especially negative ones) more strongly, and occasionally transformed into a gigantic viper when he got too excited. As one does. This viper’s thoughts were essentially Messmer’s without the filter—just like him, it cares about the people that care for him, and wishes to hurt those that hurt him. Sometimes towards his mother it felt both, causing friction between them.

What may have just been the growing pains of his unusual existence, Marika saw as a sickness that needed to be cured. She was of the belief that the Abyssal Serpent was not an extension of Messmer, but a parasite clinging on to and ruining her beloved son. Her efforts culminated in the seal. She implanted grace into a being inherently graceless, and like some kind of conversion therapy, suppressed his true self. But that part of him did not and cannot just go away—there it writhes, behind his blinded eye, for only him to witness. For only him to hear its screams, to feel its pain. An eternity of suffering. As it thrashes, its hatred grows, manifesting as constant intrusive thoughts and vivid nightmares—symptoms not at all helped by Messmer’s inherent PTSD (this one I will diagnose outright—in my timeline, he was enlisted as a pre-teen and then the wars kinda never stopped).

Although she sealed the Abyssal Serpent, Marika recognized that Messmer’s drive to burn consume destroy everything could not be quenched. A drive that she herself caused and cultivated, and now feared. Hence, she gave him a target, the Hornsent, and while he was not looking, abandoned him with no way to return home. (Potentially at the behest of Radagon now that he is Elden Lord, who for ages has been wanting to excise the sinful impurity that is Messmer from his Golden Order.) Can you imagine what that does to a person?

I think I will never run out of things to say about him, but that is where I will leave it for now. The whole mental deterioration of Messmer and his army after being abandoned is worthy of another post (or, I think I may write a fic about it).

I will say, if you want more of my personal characterization of Messmer and the serpent within, you may wish to check out my fic! It’s in his POV and I really try to get inside his head (it’s so interesting in there)!

- Froggo

[wxnheart]

𝐅*𝐜𝐤 𝐀𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐝 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐅𝐢𝐧𝐝 𝐎𝐮𝐭, 𝐄𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐧 𝐑𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐄𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧

Morgott - This is really the gist of your dynamic. You've fucked around so many times that Morgott was bound to snap. And snap he did. Time to find out, Tarnished. Next thing you know, you found yourself on the ground, looking up at the Omen's enraged face. And his angry, leaking dick. Oh. Oh. Need a little help there, Morgott? Guess he did, what with the way you're practically loving on it.

Mohg - You thought you were cute trying to fuck around but Mohg showed you he was cuter by making you find out. Too bad it comes with a side of orgasm denial and making you ride him ceaselessly as he reclines on his throne. Hah. Thought you did something there, didn't you?

Godrick - Fuck you, Godrick, okay? Just... fuck you. You don't know who's worse, you or him, but what you do know is that you tried him one too many times to the point that his multiple arms and hands practically rip your clothes off you and make you scream and beg for more. Bonus points for Godrick making you suck on two of his fingers to 'shut you up'. Not for long, you spineless bastard.

Godfrey - Um... lmao. Why would you even try him, love? He's a grappler at his core and you don't even try to wrestle yourself out of his grip. Your entire being goes slack when feel the telltale signs of his arousal press against you and by the Erdtree. No wonder Marika liked him so much...

Radahn - Well, you don't even finish fucking around before he has you suspended in the air, his tongue and fingers doing stuff to your body that you never thought possible. He told you he'd have you screaming his name. Don't know why you didn't believe him.

Radagon - He's soft-spoken as always. But there's an edge to his voice that makes you shudder, doubly so as he thrusts into you brutally. Ferally. The walls of your bedchamber reverberate with the sounds of his name. And all who has ears to hear knows Radagon has claimed his prize.

Varré - Varré is an ass so why not bother him? And so you do. And his response is to... not fuck you. Because that's what you weren't expecting. And so it turns into a game of cat-and-mouse and you're more than 1000% sure you two are going to hatefuck in the near near NEAR future.

Patches - In this scenario, it's the reverse. He fucks around because he wants to find out. He wants YOU to fuck HIM. He's glad you got the hint (finally) but did your epiphany have to happen while you're fucking him silly?

Godwyn - He's an adorable golden retriever that you never really took seriously until he fucking snapped. You didn't think the man was capable of fucking you senseless, did you? You were very pleased. And very satisfied. You also reveled in the love bites he blessed you with. And poor Godwyn is so flustered but you can't help but love the way his blush deepens when you flash him a lecherous grin. You'll have to do this often.

[avesomnia-inhoramortis]

Headcanons: Trina and Miquella

These two are complicated and their relationship will probably evolve as I write them. However, I do have some baseline points I'm following, so let's compile those.

I'm basing a lot of how they function on DID, with a fantasy/eldritch twist. The "original" personality was Miquella. That individual then split into two, who identify themselves as Miquella and Trina. Neither of them is the whole of who they were, and Trina was not something added to the original, but something developed from him.

In essence, mitosis happened. One half of them just insists that he's the original.

While both of them can be kind of childish, Miquella functions on a heavy dose of parentification trauma and Trina genuinely likes being a kid, so they clash pretty harshly sometimes. All of the original's desire to be cuddled and dependent on others got funneled off into Trina, while Miquella wants others to be dependent on him, partially as a reaction to Marika's neglect and the fact that no one else gave a damn about Malenia. Trina wants to rest, Miquella can't sit down because if he's sitting down he's not doing his utmost to save his sister.

As such, while they do understand and love eachother to an extent (because how can you not love someone who knows every terrible thing you've seen and done, who understands you, who Gets It) they also just fundamentally disagree on how a lot of things should be done. Miquella in particular has the stronger, more ambitious personality of the two, and he tends to make rules for Trina that she can't make in return.

Trina is more emotional, more impulsive, cries easily and trusts quickly in a way that deeply unnerves Miquella, who has an entire secret city and machinations against the gods to keep away from prying eyes. He's not sure how she could be used against him, and he doesn't want to find out. Similarly, Trina loves Miquella and Malenia and would never wish them harm, so it was fairly easy to get her to agree to keep their connection a secret.

The Haligtree has no shrines to her, the royal quarters of Elphael have nothing that belongs to her. She assisted Miquella in guiding pilgrims to the Haligtree, because dreams were the easiest and subtlest way he could think of to get the word out, so she does have worshippers there who carry her lily and some perfumers who combat the Rot in her name. But there are no official structures and Miquella tacitly allows her worship to be a private affair.

Particularly in the early years of existing as two-in-one, Trina would accidentally front and take over their shared body if something triggered her forward. Usually Malenia. This freaked Miquella out beyond words and the second they figured out how to mostly control it, he told Trina it made him uncomfortable, and she did her best to never use their body again. It is not a healthy dynamic for either of them.

The very few people who theorize about Miquella and Trina being the same person can occasionally be traced back to those in Elphael who've seen his eyes turn purple. Most of those incidents were covered up- both Miquella and Trina have the ability to alter memories. For what couldn't be covered up, Miquella took credit and said Trina was merely another name he used sometimes.

Since they're an Empyrean, though, she managed to figure out how to leave their body and wander dreams. As long as she leaves no hints as to who she really is, thus putting them in danger, Miquella really prefers that she be Out There and Away somewhere, though sometimes he asks for a favor. Usually guiding pilgrims with dream-messages, occasionally spying. She's happy to help, especially since she wants to be of some use to him.

Trina knows Miquella is an Empyrean, a god-vessel, but he hasn't fully realized that Trina is a nascent god. He's slightly worried about his claim as an Empyrean with her in the picture, actually, since all the other Empyreans he knows are female. It's one of many reasons he encourages her to hide.

Miquella means well, for Malenia and the world in general, but if he's outright cruel to anyone it's definitely himself. If it becomes necessary he will absolutely destroy Trina, but for now her presence is at least somewhat an advantage and he's not sure what would happen if he did that.

Trina, for her part, cannot even fathom the idea that he would seriously hurt her.