#but i have not seen any discourse here as bad as what’s happening on Twitter

[sophfandoms53]

We may be split and divided as hell in the tag this year but I can say we remain better than bbtwitter, they are ridiculous over there

[the-secret-narnian]

I was looking for some cutesy mileven fanart on twitter and stumbled across an artist I follow being homophobic towards bylers, so here’s a rant.

This whole thing probably won’t be very organized at all but this shit got me actually upset and I’ve been a silent member of the ST fandom for so long now and I have the urge to address this crap.

TW: I’ll be showing two prints that showcase clear homophobia

This is the first print I found when looking trough my notifications, I didn’t really think anything of it at first but with the context of another tweet, this one, posted by the artist themselves, makes it very clear that the intent behind this repost was not to talk about fetishization of queer people but to be hateful.

I don’t think I really need to elaborate on what is wrong with this one

The main problem here is not the homophobia (even tho it is a HUGE problem that I’ll also address separately later) , but the fact that this person, and multiple other within this and other fandoms, keep justifying their prejudice behind shipping.

I have seen so many people saying the most awful stuff to try and prove that their ship is the “right one” or “better one” or anything similar to that. I’ve seen misogyny, homophobia and ableism just by looking trough the byler/mileven tags here on Tumblr.

It is not okay to be aggressive and hateful just because you have a disagreement with someone over something as simple as shipping, and it’s even worse to involve shipping in your hate.

If you are going to be a bad person, just do it. Don’t try to pretend to be above that because of who you ship. Acting like that not only will make you look bad for being homophobic and trying to excuse it, but also helps with the negative stigma over ships.

When you do that type of shit, you are actively giving a bad name to your ship and harming other shippers who didn’t do anything.

This kinda of behavior is what results in the “bylers are ableist” and “milevens are homophobes” discourse, because “how can you say that it’s not true when it is happening before our very eyes”.

By acting like this you are causing aggressive behavior within the fandom to worsen, you harm yourself, the people you are being prejudicial towards and other fans.

Do you dislike the ship and not want to see stuff about it? Filter the tags, mark it as “non interested in this” and most importantly DONT INTERACT.

Don’t go commenting on someone’s edit because you think your ship is better, don’t go around talking about how “X ship sucks because-” whatever the reason is. By doing that you are inevitably spreading hate and making more content of that ship appear to you.

I can’t tell anyone to “not be homophobic” because that is something that people need to do for themselves.

It’s not just about being super straight forward with the prejudice either.

What I believe to be the case with a lot of homophobes is that they are incapable of understanding that they are causing harm to the LGBT+ community even if they don’t “technically hate it” and are just “not supportive”

You don’t have to be actively saying stuff like “all (respective slur to whatever minority it is) should die!” A phobia is not only to hate or be scared of something, but a general aversion towards it with no rational reason.

You can’t just “not support it” because you are just trying to make yourself look and feel better about something you know is wrong. By “not supporting” queer people you are also not supporting people’s rights to be themselves; sexuality, gender and romantic attraction are not a thing that people can change, it is a part of you.

You can claim that you just disagree with their life choices as much as you want, but in reality it is just as bad as any other prejudice. Racism is also about people not having the rights to be who they are and live normal lives.

They are both equally awful.

I won’t be accepting any comments claiming that one is worse than the other, because pain is not something to be compared. Both have caused great suffering and deaths of many people across the years

I won’t be diving any deeper into the racism discussion because of I did I would have to get into how people treat Lucas and Erica in comparison to the other characters and I have already seen a great post diving into that topic (I’ll try to find it and link it in the comments if anyone is interested)

I will also be adding, the don’t interact thing also counts for proshipping content. Most proshipping accounts are from people doing rage bait and it is common knowledge that many problematic people thrive with attention, don’t hate, don’t DM, just report it and block them.

I also won’t be going deeper into this topic cause it brings many discussions on what’s okay and what’s not when it comes to fictional content and how it affects people, and if were to say everything I thought of the topic this rant would be just a book.

I really had the need to write this down after seeing those tweets because I am a queer mileven shipper and I just hate that I have to be associated with people like that because I think Mike and El make a cute couple.

I just really want our fandom space to be more pacific, fighting and being disrespectful towards people because you think fictional character A would be better with C instead of B is silly and makes the fandom experience worse for most people.

I like to live by the principle that you shouldn’t say anything if you don’t have anything good to say, and I believe we could all have more harmony if hateful people kept the hate to themselves.

This goes for other fandoms other than Stranger Things too.

TL;DR: Shipping different characters is not a justifiable reason to be an asshole to anyone.

Edit: I just realized I wrote “tumblr” instead of Twitter, so sorry for that I am sleep deprived 😭

[utilitycaster]

Hey! Because I have seen various, various, various takes on Ashton’s actions in ep77– both on twitter (whew) and on here— and I am loving all of the different perspectives on it, I was wondering what your opinion was on the take that Ashton may have manipulated Fearne in the conversation they both had right before absorbing the shard.

Personally, I feel like it may be a bit more complicated than that, but I still don’t know.

Hey!

I think this post I made sums it up. It's not. Ashton tells Fearne precisely what they intend to do. He then does it. Fearne has the opportunity to refuse this request, or to tell the rest of Bells Hells, and she chooses not to. Yes, he compliments her and tells her that he trusts her to do the right thing when most wouldn't. Laudna asks Imogen to kill her if Delilah takes over in virtually the same exact language earlier than episode, and I don't think that's manipulative either:

Laudna to Imogen: And if anything happens and I become her little puppet, I trust you to make the right choice. (Implication this is a request for a mercy killing in the context of Delilah and Laudna's lives being inseparable; is understood as such by Imogen as demonstrated from her response and her later scene in the temple)

Ashton to Fearne: Things are going to happen, and I trust you to help me make the right decision, and I hope you trust me to help make the right decision.

The fact one is being brought up and not the other really points out that the Twitter talks out their collective ass ten times more often than they do their collective mouth; and the fact that they cannot distinguish "put Fearne in a somewhat uncomfortable position" from manipulation really points out that touching grass is not enough; they need to develop meaningful relationships with a wide variety of people in the real world.

Going along with a friend's stupid-ass decision that they encouraged you to join in and immediately regretting it is not, in fact, manipulation; it's your friend at most being kind of a dick and you exercising your agency to make your own stupid-ass decisions. It would have been wiser and nicer of Ashton to ask the party who wanted to take the shard, sure, but Fearne actively agrees with them that they should get it, and Ashton is not really defined by wisdom and being nice, and also, the above would be way more boring.

I don't want to go into this because it's a massive out-of-scope rant not limited to this particular situation, and I'd like to drag my sleep schedule back into a reasonable place tonight, but I think a lot of the more rancid discourse, whatever it may be but especially about interpersonal relationships between characters, arises for the following reasons, and I have little patience for any of them.

Thinking the only way to be a Good Person is to use 2023-approved therapy speak (and, frankly, frequently 2023 Rando on Tiktok claiming expertise who is actually a freshman psych students with no friends and a D average approved "therapy speak")

Relatedly, an all-consuming fear of any conflict, fictional, real, or otherwise, and the accompanying lack of any conflict resolution skills; this is also why they think this is manipulative, because if Fearne said no, that would be Conflict which is bad so positioning someone where conflict might be required for them to express themselves must be evil.

The genuine belief that you can only understand someone if you get everything right on the first try; either you read their mind perfectly or you have failed and are probably a manipulator or abuser for potentially leading to misunderstandings which lead to conflict which, as we see from the above point, is evil.

A refusal to admit that sometimes people are merely 1. assholes or 2. stupid. I frequently talk about opinions I cannot stand, and I almost as frequently get questions about how this opinion is problematic, and the vast majority of the time? It's not. I think it says something quite worrying, actually, that people are more comfortable and even eager to assume that a stranger is hateful or bigoted rather than merely inconsiderate or not that bright. Ashton made a poorly informed decision and made Fearne party to it. It was dumb and it wasn't really nice. That's literally it.

Anyway here's the five geek social fallacies; I recommend reading any Twitter Take(TM) and deciding how many of them they are applying to the narrative, cast, and fandom. See if you can get a full house.

(also upon re-reading this I'm pretty brusque and I promise it's not directed at you; I just genuinely think that the majority of the Twitter fandom, and certainly the loudest voices thereof, are so stupid a Detect Thoughts spell on them would fail on the basis of intelligence alone and the fact that their takes gain traction baffles and infuriates me)

[la-pheacienne]

It is certainly true that the show has done a lot to force an unbearable climate onto the remaining book fans, but on the other hand you could also wonder - why is such a large part of this remaining book fandom so hell-bent on fanatically supporting the most stupid, toxic ideas we have seen the show to embrace? I would say as stupid as these plot points were, few of the basic, broad ideas Dave and Dan went for were really things they made up all on their own. Mad Queen theories, the distorted view of so many characters like Arya and so on, these all were echoing things a lot of book fans (the type of milieu many of the people in charge of HBO's output were bred in) always WANTED the story and the characters and their trajectory to be, regardless how well founded these wishes matched the actual text.

The show was echoing bad fanon rooted in the book scene more or less from the beginning, you can trace it directly to how some characters were presented and castings were chosen right from the start. That's also why if you listen more closely to so many of the less bearable people in the book scene, the REAL problem so many of them had with the ideas of the latter parts of the show was that it was done in such a way that the public thought it was trash and didn't accept it. The whole agenda of them is now hoping for the books to emerge as some better written version of the show that finally will convince them all that this worthless trash story that is ironically only loved and wanted by these people alone is actually the correct version of it and its characters everyone should finally accept and digest. As ridiculous as the show was, ironically the most ridiculous parts of it were in truth clumsily made fan service for the worst sentiments that were peddled by and nurtured within the book fandom.

Oh, for sure. Thank you for this ask because you have put into words something that has been turning in my head for a long time.

the REAL problem so many of them had with the ideas of the latter parts of the show was that it was done in such a way that the public thought it was trash and didn't accept it.

After almost a year on tumblr and observing the book fandom and reading the BNFs' metas and theories and fanons and briefly delving into reddit and twitter god forbid, I have to say that I agree with you. I can't say how it was in the past though, I wasn't here. But I am afraid it is exactly as you say it is. I mean, Dany's arc from a hero to a fallen hero to a villain because *she watched her abusive brother die without an emotional reaction, psychopath!*, Jon just randomly exiled beyond the Wall because *subverting expectations*, none of them becoming King/Queen of the Seven Kingdoms/KINT, not even BRIEFLY, not even during the War for the Dawn (ok Jon did), because *throne bAAAAD*, *they're not heroes no one can fix Westeros*, *monarchy bAAAAD*, *subverting expectations*, Sansa getting girlbossified because *subverting expectations*, all of these points that ****supposedly*** sucked in GoT, are the exact same theories shared by a very big and very loud part of the BNF here, if not the majority.

So, what exactly is the internet fandom's problem with the show? Is there any? I literally can't see it, except that it was done too quickly and thus made these stupid theories appear even more stupid than they initially were. I've seen a LOT of posts saying like "oh you should stop wishing for your fav to get the throne, no one will get the throne and no one is 'in the right' (especially in the fire and blood discourse), no one 'deserves' it, the throne will crush and burn, the show has done so much damage to the fandom pitting favs against each other for the throne" etc etc, but that's so funny to me because what they say will happen in the books is literally what happened in the show, at least roughly, and their vibe was the vibe of a huge part, if not the majority, of the show fandom. This super annoying nihilism that I see in (book) BNF right now is the exact.same.nihilism I remember from the show fandom. The exact same one, but with a faux-feminist rosey Stansa touch. That's it. From the "Your heros will not get the throne, losers, Littlefinger will kill them all and prevail, the end" show-only dudebro rationale we went to the "oh nobody can fix Westeros, Dany and Jon will sacrifice themselves (best case, worst case Dany will get all psycho like her daddy and bros), monarchy Targs BAD, Targ feudal system BAD, fuck the Targ lords, team small folk, only coincidentally my fav bbgrl Sansa will actually end up in a conventional and strictly feudal position of power uwu, the end". The common denominator? Nihilism and this obsession for subverting expectations. This parallel is even funnier with hotd, where the show's most non-sensical, straight up delulu plot points are whole-heartedly embraced by, again, a big and very loud part of the BNF (probably the majority). This time the concordance is direct and not even denied, and it's embarrassing when I see their half-ass attempts at criticizing the show, because they literally can't. They actually love it and it's so obvious.

So to get to your point, there are two possibilities here: either the show's nihilistic, faux-edgy, shock value-based direction irrevocably transformed the book fandom, or the book fandom was already in that mindset and the show was based on that and it could very well be the latter.

[louisisalarrie]

Due to the large amount of debating on Twitter around stunts and forcible closeting and who gains what from the partnership, let’s talk about stunts as someone who works in the industry and has a degree in this shit, baby!!!

Okie dokie. Stunts are just about our least favourite thing in this fandom, and we watch the boys get exploited, used, and see that they are thoroughly and visibly upset during pap shots and any public event with said stunt. I will be touching on bbg here, as a warning. But this will look particularly at Harry’s stunts, a bit more than Louis’, because people seem to all be fighting about Harry and TR at the moment, and there have been a lot of nasty things said between solos and larries and yeah… let’s have a chat about this all, so you folks can have a little more context of behind the scenes, and also a more thorough understanding than just “that stunt gf is using him for his fame and is part of the problem by forcibly closeting that artist”. Sooooo yeah, let’s get into it. I’ll break this down by Harry/Louis, and we can have a good look into this together. Feel free to hit me up in my inbox for any questions/comments etc., my loves. A lot of this stuff you might already be aware of, but yeah. Just thought I’d do something a bit more in depth while all this discourse is happening.

Harry - a brief history of stunts/his image, and why TR is his beard right now

So, we are all certainly aware of Harry’s past, with everyone from Caroline Flack, to Taylor Swift, to Kendall Jenner… the list goes on and on. His image was doctored to fit the ideal womaniser - sweet and funny, but flirty and cocky. If he was marketed as a dick, no one would idealise him, obviously. So he was allowed to be himself, as the sweet boy we all know, with the exception of flirting with every woman that breathes, and bedding them immediately, before moving on. He was still desirable like this. He was still seen as somewhat attainable, because he was never tied down. He didn’t do long term, he did one night stands and would keep women around long enough until the next pretty little (famous) thing came along. They wanted him to be seen as a sexual being, as so many young male boy bands are full of “goody two shoes” and are little happy cherubs who sing about what makes you beautiful, not waking up with a hard on.

So, his image flowed with the times. They seeded that baby as a womaniser, so when the band got older, he could be seen with multiple stunts, and be even more attainable than someone with a long term partner (Louis) because he didn’t fall in love. He was sex, and rock n roll, while playing innocent as well. It was a different twist to your usual “bad boy” narrative… the young girls saw him as a beautiful sweet angel, and the older girls thought they had a chance to have sex with him (multiple “receipts” that said Harry asked for numbers from fans and took them backstage after shows also posted on Tumblr/Twitter which the older fans had accounts on). They covered the very wide demographic that one direction had with this image, while keeping him closeted. S*mon always thought he was gonna be the main boy, so why not do whatever they can to give him even more PR? Two birds one stone, right?

Anyway, stunting is, and always has been, a crucial part of PR. The general public, and fans, are always interested to know the love life of celebrities. It causes drama, and gossip, and pays for the families of Paps, journalists, interviewers, etc. ya know? These folks would have a pretty boring job if they couldn’t spread gossip. They get paid more to do so, so it’s just the circle of life in the music industry. Almost all the jobs around an artist are there because of stunts. There’s only so many times a reporter can comment on what Harry is wearing if he’s not seen with someone else.

Anyway, this day and age, stunts have become pretty see through. We can spot one a mile away, anticipate articles, and guess what’s coming next. It’s embarrassing really. But, in the earlier days of stunts, it used to be a mutually beneficial agreement. Celebrity A “dates” and is spotted with Celebrity B, who both have large fandoms and make a lot of money (HS and TS). So, being seen together makes sense. A power couple, if you will. Two of the biggest stars on the planet, joining forces, exposing their already established fandoms to the other person’s music, and both of them gaining more followers, more money, and more clicks in the media. It’s the same with the OW shit show that happened… however, that was marketed as a 2 year long stunt, his longest yet, and was obviously to promo the movie. But, being his longest public relationship as of yet, they kinda dragged him away from the womaniser image a bit. Makes sense, right? He’s getting older, settling down a bit… he’s becoming a professional, not fucking the fans of his boyband backstage, and sleeping with every hot celebrity he sees.

However, because of a lot of these stunts are now being exposed and superficial af, they have tried a different kind of stunt, that, while we’ve seen before in different “womanising” artists, they do this to boost a positive image of the artist in question, and move them away from their… multiple sexual escapades. This is what I like to call the “Girl Next Door” stunt, which is exactly where Harry is at now, and where Louis has been all throughout his stunts.

The Girl Next Door stunt shows the public “oh wow, he’s not superficial!!! He’ll date someone who isn’t super famous and he loves them for them!!! He isn’t using her!! He’s attainable and would date someone like me because I’m not super famous!!!” narrative. Which, for Harry, pulls his image back towards being more “real” and authentic, and, for the fans, causes them to defend him because of this. They don’t see it as an obvious stunt because why the hell would this be mutually beneficial for Harry? Why would he bother to continue agreeing to closet himself with someone who isn’t gonna give him any PR from their own fandom? Who the paps are gonna wonder who she is? Well… it’s because he’s a sweetie pie baby boy cherub angel who doesn’t care about fame and fortune, just treats people with kindness and has fallen in love with someone who wasn’t really in the public eye to begin with. Wow. What an incredible guy.

And while you may say “hang on, TR wasn’t totally unknown, she had a following”, her following was nothing compared to Harry’s before they got together. So, with the above in mind about how this positively boosts Harry’s image, you can see why this is mutually beneficial. It’s not always about the money for both sides.

But… hang on… “why would TR agree to this? She’s actively participating in the closeting of Harry? She’s not a good person!!!!!” Well… if it wasn’t her, it’d be someone else. If every celeb/person boycotted the idea of stunts and refused them due to the fact they didn’t want to closet artists, that would be great. It would be a massive shift in the industry. It would be fantastic. But… that’s just not the way it is right now. And unfortunately I don’t think it ever will be.

Closeting has existed for years in the celeb world, and it’s not just gonna go away like that. Sometimes the artists get to choose who they stunt with, and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes bisexuality is seeded juuuuuust enough to get people talking even more. But in his case right now, that’s why people are relating to TR. that’s why they’re defending her, and that’s why they’re a good stunt for now, because she’s the girl next door. See that image shift, now?

Louis - bbg, long term gfs, and the Girl Next Door

Now that I’ve explained the idea of the Girl Next Door stunt (which I’m sure a lot of you have picked up on already prior to this post), that’s exactly what Louis’ closeting and stunting has been for the past 13 years. Eleanor was an unknown, young pretty girl aspiring to be a model. They had one womaniser in the band, two would just be sleazy, so why not make him somewhat “unattainable” but still show his love and commitment and as he was the oldest of the band, he took relationships seriously? It makes him look grown up, so people can take the band more seriously. They’re not just 5 boys who are fucking everything that moved due to newfound fame. It would keep Louis closeted, keep Harry closeted but in the public eye at all times, and totally remove any possibility of them being in a relationship behind closed doors. Sounds great on paper, right? So… if Louis was the sweet, funny, long term gf boy… then why did he go out and get drunk and fuck some unknown hairdresser in a one night stand and have a baby with her, and it be so public? Let’s have a quick look…

For obvious closeting reasons, someone who is speculated to be gay having a baby is quite a clear cut. They’ve had vaginal penetrative sex, they can’t be gay… right? Bisexuality is often overlooked in the media, but, that’s a story for another time.

So, bbg makes sense. They were seeding Harry’s bisexuality/coming out over mid 2014-2015 buttttt little problem… if Harry was in fact into men, then why couldn’t he be into Louis? Larry Stylinson is no stranger to the press, and to pay off every outlet to include in their article the previous denials of Larry’s relationship in the coming out articles, was more effort than what it’s worth. So, even giving him a male stunt, larry would still be prominent in all press relating to Harry’s sexuality. So, in the plans of Harry’s (not successful) coming out, what do they do with Louis?

Long term gf man Louis became quite the party boy, and slept around with Girl Next Door types. People who weren’t famous. People who weren’t gonna help his career after one direction, nor boost his popularity and exposure. He was almost attainable to fans, as so many fans have met him at clubs before. But Harry needed to be THE one who ended up on top (no pun intended), and THE extra attainable now openly bisexual man. They just had to stop Louis from being a desirable match to pretty princess harry, and kinda pushed him to take over Harry’s womaniser image. So, what better way than to push him into being a grotty undesirable party boy who was getting fucked up and sleeping with random girls? What better way than to make him be extra closeted with a kid whose mum he’d had a one night stand with? It could’ve been any fan… right? Quite the Y/N wattpad story if you ask me…

(Anywho, this isn’t a bbg post so I won’t go into S*mon vs Louis, the big gay war, Belfast etc., I’m just talking plainly about the images to the public eye).

So, bbg sticks and is set for the long term, and so Louis still has the committed image he always did. He’s always been tied down, except… he can’t go from party boy to doting dad in one breath. So a couple of VERY short lived stunts here (including one he did by himself in protest) and there, keeps him attainable. He cares SO much about his little lad, BUT is on the look out for some lady bits at all times. Funnily enough, with women who aren’t going to actively improve his career/popularity. So… Girl Next Door attainability, long term commitment grown up responsibility, and now, stunt free (apart from bbg) for over a year. Party boy louis lives on, though. And that is certainly an interesting deep dive as to why, but again, for another time.

Overall - why the fuck is this all happening?

So, they’ve pushed Harry and Louis as far apart from each other as possible, since 2015. Their images, everything. We know this, we’ve watched it, some of us have been here for it. But why is Harry now Girl Next Door stunting? It’ll be a year of them together in a few months. It’s arguably his first stunt gf who is not popular or influential in any way. Well… his image now is happy go lucky boy who loves everyone and is sweet as pie and while he still has suggestive lyrics and moves on stage, he’s actively been pushed away further from the womaniser image through OW and TR. I believe, since he has shot to fame, they’ve decided to kick him back down and seem more attainable, with a more “realistic and authentic” stunt. It makes him look like a real person again. Obviously, it’s forced closeting and you can plainly see it makes him upset and he’s doing everything he can to move away from it, but… that’s his image for now. They’re moving away from womanising because he’s older and needs to still look attainable and professional and “grown up” (30 yrs old isn’t grown up by any means, but it’s the ageism in the industry and generally around the world that pushes this), and so this is the purpose of TR. now, you can sit here and yell about her being an active part in his closeting, which she is, but if it wasn’t her, it would be someone else. Solo Harries who believe in them being together, would be stanning another chick if she was in TR’s place. It’s a Copy of a Copy of a Copy. Get mad at the teams behind Harry and Louis, not at the girls participating in it. (BBG is somewhat of an exception bc who tf would actively put a baby through that but whatever, the promise of money can sway people like crazy).

In short, Long-Term Tomlinson and Harry Sly-les are still in full force, but in an adjusted way to seem more authentic. Because in this day and age, where everything is fake, authenticity sells.

[austinmaris18]

Personal Thoughts on Yona (No Bashing)

I'm gonna be honest, I hate shipping discourse because at the end of the day, characters aren't real and muting tags, posts, accounts are a thing. I also don't want to clog the Sidlink tag with discourse bc it's bad enough on twitter. However, if there's one thing I've learned about myself, it's that when something's bothering me, I need to talk about it, if only to process it. So, apologies but here I go. I will say that I feel like this is a nuanced take, so I guess if you're interested in that feel free to read. Disclaimer before I go in: there will be absolutely no Yona bashing. This post isn't to bash or attack Yona, anyone who enjoys Yona individually or paired with Sidon. I don't necessarily dislike her as a character, I'm more annoyed at the writing surrounding her introduction.

I've been thinking a lot, and I think the reason that Yona's introduction bothers me so much is because it mirrors (more than likely unintentionally) a pretty annoying heteronormative trope. In Jeffrey Brown's book Love, Sex, Gender, and Superheroes (an amazing analytical book in general, would highly recommend) they note that following the publication of Seduction of the Innocent in 1954 - which claimed amongst other things that Batman and Robin were a couple - there was a sort of moral panic about comic books. This was also during the era of McCarthyism, and so to avoid Senate action, the comic industry created the Comics Code Authority, which partly ensured that "illicit relationships" weren't hinted at, and in 1956 Kate Kane as Batwoman was introduced to be a love interest for Batman to reinforce his heterosexuality.

Now, am I comparing Sidlink to the supposed queer subtext of Batman and Robin in 40s and 50s comics? No. Am I saying that Nintendo purposefully introduced Yona for the same purpose as DC did Batwoman? Not necessarily. I just think it's almost comical how similar the situation feels, and the writing doesn't help either. Now, Yona is apparently Sidon's "dear childhood friend" and is also from a different kingdom. That in and of itself feels so awkward because again, we've had Breath of the Wild and Age of Calamity AND their respective DLCs, and not once have gotten mention of Yona or her kingdom. Not in a throwaway line from an NPC, not in the murals of Zora's Domain, not in Mipha's diary. (Also, I know that technically, Age of Calamity isn't canon. But it still had input from the Zelda team, and it provides a supposedly canon view of the settlements in Hyrule before the Calamity.) Especially considering the fact that we get confirmation from Sidon's mural and King Dorephan's dialogue that the engagement to Yona is political/arranged, this engagement was not really foreshadowed in any meaningful way other than this sort of heteronormative notion of "He's a prince so he'll have to get married at some point." Like, Sidon had a whole fanclub in BotW, and not one of them knew?? Did the engagement happen in the six/seven years between BotW and ToTK? Again, for a race of long lived beings like the Zora, that feels a bit hard to believe.

This in particular is what makes her introduction so jarring. We've seen all the countless Twitch and YouTube streamers reacting, the TikToks, the tweets and Tumblr posts of people shocked and disappointed. Here's where I point back to the fact that Aonuma and Fujibayashi even addressed the fact that Sidon was so popular during the BotW DLC Dev Talk. That's not to say they were aware of the ship or even cared enough to have taken the action of mitigating any potential queer readings. Other than reactions to the gameplay and the overall story, I don't think Nintendo particularly cares what we do, think, or ship. But they did know that Sidon in particular was a standout popular character, and so it seems so strange to not pair him off in a more well written way.

That's before even mentioning the whole Zora mural where Sidon parallels his relationship with Yona to that of Mipha, literally calling her a sister. There's also no getting around the fact that he uses that phrasing as in Spanish, French, and the original Japanese (those are the languages I read, so that's what I'm referencing) so it's not an English localization quirk. And I know there's the line about his feelings become more "difficult to quantify" but again, why? Why not just say he admired her instead of comparing her to Mipha in that way if they want to show us there was something there even in their childhood? I know it's meant to be sweet and to depict a sort of growth of feelings between them, but it reads strangely.

So we have these aspects and then we compare this to Sidon's interactions with Link this game. (Also before that, I want to acknowledge something: the vast majority of us who ship Sidlink or just enjoyed Sidon's character were never under the illusion that Nintendo would go towards any canonical romance between Sidon and Link.) We arrive to Zora's Domain to find a statue of us riding Sidon from the Vah Ruta battle. There is a whole Hylian bedroom constructed near the area where Sidon and Link fought Vah Ruta (more built out than the bed area Mipha used). The whole "Link Shrine" Sidon has singing his praises. Sidon literally getting down on one knee, taking OUR HAND in both his hands before presenting us the ring (I know that the other champions say the same oath and give us rings, it's the imagery of a proposal that I'm referring to). Link standing equally distant to Sidon as Yona during Sidon's crowning. Yona telling us that when Sidon speaks it's more than likely to talk about Link. Already Yona's introduction so funnily parallels heteronormative tropes, but to actually have so much imagery and subtext for Sidon and Link makes it feel even more crazy? I think this is where people get so hung up on the idea that "Yona was just introduced to get in the way of Sidlink." Honestly, I think the interactions with Link are more probably concessions for fans (not necessarily shippers) because again, the devs know how popular Sidon is. But it compounds with the manner in which Yona is written into the game.

All that being said, I don't necessarily have a neat conclusion to draw from these thoughts, but going back to the Batwoman parallels, I do think it's a shame Yona won't have to chance to canonically develop further the way Batwoman did. After all, despite her original introduction, most people nowadays think Batwoman and think of Kate Kane, the redhead badass lesbian superhero. But that happened over the course of decades in a medium that iterates narratively on the same characters over and over. Even if we get a story DLC for ToTK that has more Yona content, I don't know that it would be enough to smooth over how awkward her introduction was, and it's hard to believe Nintendo would make another direct sequel or carry over Sidon and Yona to the next version of Zelda. But we can already see Yona's iterative growth through fandom!

Now listen. I know myself, and the truth is I'm never going to actively ship Sidon and Yona. But I'm sure there are amazing artists and writers out there who will flesh Yona and her relationship and history with Sidon out (whether that includes Link in a polycule or not). I'm glad that the game has made the interpretation of a lavender marriage between Sidon and Yona who have their respective paramours possible (with the politically arranged aspect of the marriage, Sidon's boisterous actions concerning Link, Yona's acknowledgement of Link's importance to Sidon). I'm looking forward to fics, standalone art and comics that take that route. I'm sure that there will continue to be art and fanfiction that don't acknowledge ToTK or Yona, and I will surely be consuming those as well. I really hope the homophobia and general discourse towards Sidlink subsides, because it's been surprisingly overwhelming on Twitter. I also hope that there aren't people actively attacking posts about Yona. After all, muting and blocking words, tags, and accounts are options across all social media platforms.

This post will definitely be a one off for me, and I don't ever see myself making another post like this again. I honestly might also delete this post in the future now that I've properly written out my thoughts. Anyways, time to get back to drawing practice and working on my fics.

[mrs-monaghan]

To that one anon,

I absolutely agree that actively hating on JK is veryyy uncalled for when we can see Jikook doing great and we don't have all the bts information. Lately, though, I've also seen a lot of Jikook accts minimizing what happened to FACE and Jimin. Celebrating JK's achievements is one thing but I cannot stand to see jkks of all ppl downgrading what happened to Jimin and his records as they're broken by the extra push the company gives JK. Everyone is speculating and trying their best to understand things and for some, that's sidelining Jimin as an accessory to make it make sense. There needs to be fair discourse in all sides of this community without romanticizing the darker parts of it. It's not JK's fault and we don't know all, but we still need to be able to talk about it. Like the fact that some of LC's numbers disappeared right when Seven needed space on the Korean charts. The fact that the FACE wasn't restocked for months when seven was in ready supply almost every week. What happened to LC and the rise of Seven is related even on a minor scale. This is a fact. Some accts were so focused on debunking videos, and celebrating JK that the topic of where Jimin's award nominations and streams are going became taboo because apparently "Jimin is happy as a cheerleader" ...what?!

Actively hating is way too far I agree but all I'm saying is we should still be able to talk about the inequality regarding them as individuals and how that relates to Jikook as a whole. Believing in Jikook and discussing these things should not be mutually exclusive. Everyone has their own opinions. Again not supporting the hate, but we should be allowed to share thoughts shouldn't we, regardless if we won't all agree?

No, I dont disagree. But personally talking about it just seems to get people riled up and that's how Jikookers end up resenting JK. I would rather copy paste a PJM on twitter when they are tagging BH and Geffen and anyone else fucking over Jimin.

I haven't 4go10 everything our man has been through. This man has millions of fans and they only released 13k LC cds. Meanwhile other members got up to 50k. His shit not getting restocked even still?? You cannot tell me this is something Jimin would be okay with. His fans wanting to buy his music and not being able to? No way he's just okay with this.

But I also fail to see how he's not aware of it?? He has to be aware of what happened to him.

(New video here for those who are yet to watch it. As always they do Jimin Jimin great justice)

The 🛴 thing is confusing seeing as he's credited on FACE but whatever.

Unfortunately we will never know how he feels or whats going on unless he or one of the members outright tell us about it. The unfairness is so bad if I look at it too much it makes me tear up. I haven't 4go10 he is still the only member who didn't get a cake. I know it's just a cake but damn this always rubs me the wrong way. @magicshop-pjm1 gets it 🤭🤭🤭

All I know anon, which makes me less sad, is the fact that Jimin renewed with Hybe. That has to mean something. And so I will just be here and support him the best way I can. I am choosing to trust his decision here because we are clearly missing something.

I don't post these asks because tbh they are a downer and they make everyone upset. I don't like to be upset. Until we know the truth I would rather avoid the topic all together. But that's just me 😔😔 It doesn't do me any favours.

But yes, Jikookers should be able to discuss whats been going on without being called JK antis. Provided they're not acting like JK antis.

[monkiekidtwt]

Genuine question, no hate! Why stay on lmk Twitter and repost stuff to here abt it if you dislike it so much? And why are we all arguing over which platform is better? They are all good and bad, there's no better over the other.

To answer this seriously: the reason I stay is because it’s where the majority of LMK fans are. It’s the only place where Monkie Kid News and other such resources resides, and it is often the place that first gets wind of stuff like new releases. If I want to have my finger on the pulse of the show, I sort of have no choice to be. So, while I’m there, I repost the good stuff.

I’ve never engaged in arguments that one social media is better than the other, mind. Just said that Twitter sucks. But the reasons why I dislike Twitter (especially fandom Twitter) are as follows:

A culture of directly harassing people for minor infractions, or what turns out to be misinformation (just the other day, a minor was harassed for something it turned out they didn’t do)

Idolization of big name fans (like I said in an earlier post; if you criticize a big name fan, then you’re gonna get dogpiled to hell and back, and if a big name fan says something, everyone will pretend they’ve always agreed, even if they’ve expressed the opposite recently)

Literal 24/7, unavoidable discourse that nobody tags (today, the topic of fandom-wide discussion was people who treat Mei like she gets in the way of Spicynoodles, which literally nobody does)

It is so hard to optimize your experience and curate your feed, because tagging is not built into the system (like, what would I filter other than ‘Spicynoodles’ to stop seeing the previous discourse, when the majority of them are just text posts with no tags? what if I like that ship and don’t wanna mute it?)

Even if you could curate it better, general social media stuff that everyone knows about Twitter at this point makes it so that you’re always seeing stuff that upsets you (it’s designed to addict you, and feeds you the algorithm which is designed to show you posts that make you upset or angry for engagement, plus more!)

And that’s not even getting into the Elon Musk of it all, or the fact that I’ve had multiple friends on there both watch and be victims of horrific harassment campaigns on LMKtwt that left them with literal trauma symptoms.

Compare this to tumblr:

The culture here is largely “block and move on”

The tagging system makes it easy for people to tag their discourse so I don’t have to see it

Since there is no algorithm, there is no issue with being fed posts to upset me

Harassment is less normalized, and when you are harassed, it’s usually via anon, which you can turn off to shut them up

I have never personally seen any people showing weird behavior towards fellow fans, which is either a sign that it doesn’t happen or that you’re able to curate your feed with minimum effort to never see it

Twitter is an infinitely worse experience, culturally and by social media design, but I stay there because it is where most of the LEGO Monkie Kid fandom is, plus the chill people that reside there sometimes.

So, that’s 1) why I hate it there, and 2) why I’m there anyway. And I run this blog to share the goodies with tumblr, so that nobody else has to feel obligated to be on LMKtwt like I feel that I do. Which is why I make jokes about making such a huge sacrifice for the sake of LMK tumblr, via running this blog.

[bylerfields]

maybe it's space curating bc i definitely see the mike side as the higher volume/frequency, i mean most times theres discourse it's bc someone poking at the will preference. like with the polls anons this week that only happened bc an anon said bratty btm mike was obvious and "at most" btm leaning switch, but stating it as fact not opinion. all preferences are opinion for the reasons you said, we only see them until 14 and havent seen their sex life. usually anything else said is just response to the first rudeness, or thats what i see. theres an acc on here who used to comment on btm will fics calling for btm mike instead which i think is very rude for fandom. theres accs on here blatantly posting on the public dash how people who don't prefer subby btm mike are crazy and even not as smart for not seeing it. how is that not rude? then the multiple times spicy polls anons have been rude instead of just sending asks about their preference for mike and making the experience better for themselves. did you see the polls anon that said something and added "anyway btm mike >>>" months ago? i dont think i've seen that from a btm will? i tried really hard to think if i had! but it's those kinds of behavior we dont need amongst us bc no one is better. i follow lots of spicy bylers and havent seen that from btm will or switch bylers, they just post about their preference. i've made moots with people who came from twitter who said it would happen there too, they'd respond to rudeness for not "getting" sub mike and suddenly are the bad guys. so they got tired by the behavior and stopped being active. maybe your dash is more peaceful but i dont see will sides of things saying things until prompted. or with every right to offer an opinion to what was said bc this is a public space. i'm surprised you've seen more for the opposing side? tbh you will have people who are extra who are rude in every side of a ship preference but the 'frequency' to me has been the mike side. i was annoyed when i saw the bratty anon on spicy polls bc i knew it was going to start more annoying discourse that means nothing. how are they shocked people don't share the same preference? thats normal in fandom. you'd have to be new to fandoms to be shocked

anon I unfortunately think this is just a case of you not seeing the rudeness on the other side because you agree with the stance. especially with the sentiment of people not being as smart for not seeing it - that’s like, a pretty pervasive topic in the sfw side of our fandom as far as will goes.

the ao3 comment thing is obviously rude so i’m with you on that.

it could definitely be that i just don’t follow or see posts like that, though i do follow some really kind people with bottom mike prefs. i’ll take your word for it, but i guess i’d say that even the “anyway bottom mike >” posts come across as tongue in cheek, and again, isn’t it okay to share preferences? it’s a little brash, sure, but it shouldn’t be shocking for people to want to express these prefs in the tag, like you said.

i’m saying all this with a pretty clear preference for bottom will, too, so it’s always a little surprising to me that others don’t see it because it’s not like i’m biased. but it’s just always felt obvious to me that bottom mike fans are the minority in the fandom - think about the reason you haven’t seen any of the asks of similar nature for bottom will in spicybylerpolls. there’s no need for it lmao - and it just takes one annoying comment, likely from an anon or someone not active in the fandom (that the op probably made without even thinking) to get 10 people to come to it’s defense with think pieces galore about the canon validity. sure, they have every right to comment on what was said but there shouldn’t be such a big need for defense, i guess?

have you thought about the possibility that theyre likely just experiencing fandom a little differently than you and (other than the ao3 comment thing) are not intending to invalidate you or be rude to you?

even with the recent anon sharing how surprised they were to find that more people didn’t see mike as a bottom, i get how it could come across as invalidating if they weren’t coming from a place of clearly knowing theyre in the minority of opinions. imagine someone saying that around the dinner table with friends. its funny, its a differing take, sure its a little over confident but it’s not rude to anyone - even with an opposing outlook myself i think it sparks fun conversation when someone else is shocked theyre the odd one out. i’m more curious than offended. i may be naive and giving them the benefit of the doubt, but this is often the tone i perceive when i see pro bottom mike posts. i think they’re pretty aware of what the common opinion is.

this is similar to how i feel when i see “where are the bottom mike fics/poll questions/etc? i’m tired of bottom will” again, same situation, if a friend said this in a group of bottom will fans, it doesn’t come across to me as being actually upset and wanting to silence us, it’s just: silly. there’s that surprise of “am i really the only one who didn’t go crazy over [insert xyz thing that mike did in the show], where are my people?” and i think they’re entitled to do so. just as people with our preference are over things we saw in the show. bottom will fans already have their people, it was the default when the polls started. i guess thats all i’m saying.

from my now 1.5 years on the nsfw side, it seems like there’s always going to be an assumption from someone that people sharing opinions about a more subby mike are being spiteful, rude, or trying to be divisive.

you say no one is better, but seem to have a very low tolerance for posts about bottom mike. having the preference is okay, but only if they come with the perfect angelic attitude about it. i’d say we don’t hold the same standard for bottom will posters - and it makes sense that you’re not gonna perceive a (pretty consistent) negative, superior attitude if you’re nodding along to the sentiment.

thank you for the context!!!

[littlerebels]

...Did something happen? Was a spinoff announced or something? A movie? A new champion leaked? Was a YouTube essay released?

Because today ALONE I've seen more bad takes on SEVIKA (on TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, of course, where else) than I have in the entire past three years of being in this fandom. I thought Sevika was widely either 1) viewed neutrally, but still appreciated for what she brought to the show by those who just simply favor other characters or 2) passionately adored by her small yet growing fanbase.

Sure, there was the occasional goofball who took Vi's biased accusation (pot, meet kettle) of Sevika "betraying" Vander at face value, but I never really saw... Sevika haters. Even the official artbook refers to her as the "fan favorite" (pg 102).

...But all of a sudden I'm seeing hardcore Sevika-antis? Like, C@itlyn Kiramman levels of discourse. TF? Maybe it's my algorithm but these anti-Sevika talking points are genuinely out of nowhere for me. Were they always here, or did I run out of pro-Sevika content on my FYP and now it's showing me the antis? Or has Sevika gotten so popular that now the contrarians need to make themselves known?

I know wifey isn't perfect, and yes, she is open to criticism like any other character. But why all the sudden is my question LMAO

[ludinusdaleth]

hey, i'm new to cr fandom and wasn't there when c2 was airing, may i ask out of curiosity what was the fandom's problem with its ending?

i want to start by saying this post is meant as a personal memory and not an incitement of any discourse. i do not want a lot of asks or replies or anything about this if i can help it. i would also politely ask that no one reblog this as i really just. dont want attention about this when ive discussed it to death on twitter. i also apologize for not having screenshots but i truly cannot bring myself to wade through that again. it was bad enough i still have nightmares about it.

basically, about 3 eps before c2's end, matt clarified on twitter the campaign was coming to a close, and that. did not go well. you see, folk (myself included, though i wasnt part of the following clown show) were very sure c2 would continue a while. it felt unfinished as the empire/trent had to be taken down, and for some of us ludinus was clearly the big bad, etc. so this was incredibly jarring to a lot of folk. and with that came anger. a lot of critique came down to fear of things being rushed, a lack of closure, claims of extreme neoliberialism due to not taking down the empire (i could write an essay on and cite multiple leftist activists who have stated c2 is truthful to the activist tale, not neoliberalism, and also how c3 deconstructs beau & caleb's actions, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on it), and that if shadowgast did not fuck in this short timespan the fans were going to kill liam & matt. and threats of killing were the least of what ensued. im just gonna put a tw here for discussion of extreme harrassment and even threat of necrophilia/rape:

people were. atrocious. beyond atrocious. know why 4sd/a lot of q&a events of theirs for a while had no fan questions? partially bc fans were frankly terrible at asking non-ship questions on talks machina, but mainly because folk FILLED their inboxes with insults (and a twitter account was made of screenshots bragging about it) that only the crew would get to filter out, not the cast. know why dani was terrified to show her face on 4sd for a bit? c2 fans would not let up on how it was her cishet fault fjorjester happened. people thought the solution to alleged neoliberalism was to therefore @ travis saying they would defile his veteran fathers corpse. if there was any solid discussion critiquing c2 happening, it was so drowned that actors who had nothing to do with the show told cr fans to stay away if that was how they treated their favorite creators wanting a break. it really didnt help that a certain disgraced talks machina host was firing potshots on twitter when the cast seemed to be just trying to take it all in, so more discourse was kicked up from him. in general besides all of that, you had the average death & even a few rape threats you would expect from the pits of fan entitlement. the way they were hardly the most notable of the insults hurled their way still rattles the mind. and thats just what i saw. my friends have claimed to have seen worse, but if we can help it we dont discuss it in detail, it's that bad. like i said, any idea of an actual conversation about c2 and how someone felt about it from an analysis perspective was not even a drop in the bucket; there was no actual discourse but rather spitting hatred pouring over that mistook personal grievances for excuses to mistreat quite literally anyone around them who didnt agree that threatening to defile someone was funny bittersweet revenge.

the thing is, after the c2 finale happened? i mean, a lot of folk didnt originally like it (i think it's generally pretty well liked now, and i enjoy it), but it wrapped up a lot of issues pretty well. all that terror & terrorizing over a fictional story was really for nothing. and even if it had ended undebateably badly did anything warrant that fallout?

there are of course a few other factors that seperate cast from fandom now. laura also got innumerable threats from tlou fans for playing some antagonist character, twitter is a dysfunctional shithole, and it's just rational the more popular you get to not be buddy-buddy with fans. but that was. a Time, for sure. c3 is a decent campaign but im far from the first person to note that many of its traits are set in trying to find vox machina's fixed story beats so no story beat is left "unturned" and being as un-m9-like as possible, even when they love the m9. a lot of the worst m9 fans now who harrass other campaign enjoyers and lament c2 being "an unloved middle child" are folk who never left the bitterness they held in that time. for as much discourse as c3 has kicked up i really dont think any of it compares to the sheer scale of what happened late may 2021, and im hoping with all my heart it never does reach that level ever again (i think c3 has a slightly smaller (at least online) fanbase compared to c2, and isnt marked by a pandemic hiatus, so hopefully that means something).

i hope i answered your question. i really hate remembering this time but sometimes i think it should be remembered so folk know what the cost of extreme parasociality is. the distance the cast has from fans now is not only earned but maybe should have always been there, so things never evolved to that extremity. but now it's done and gone. i envy people who watch cr on their own merits and didn't get sucked into twitter at the time; it has been fascinating watching folk say they love the travelercon/aeor arcs and the ending. rewatching later c2 really emphasizes how many complaints hinged on extremely online & parasocial headspaces - you definitely wont hear anyone nowadays say liam is a biphobic cishet abusing matt by not making caleb kiss essek yet. i hope new fans have a better time than we did. oh - and get off twitter.

[uselessheretic]

weighing in on the "should you interact with anti izzy posts or not" because i love to talk to myself:

i don't think it's a black and white thing tbh. more than anything, i think people should seriously examine their motivations for responding to hateful posts in that at times it can be a bit self harming. especially if you find yourself seeking out conflict, or are spending more time in fandom responding to negativity rather than doing things that make you happy.

one thing i think izzy fans do well is maintain a balance of ensuring their fandom experience is predominantly focused on things that spark joy. which happens to mostly be sexualizing that old man. for a lot of izzy stans, if you scroll through their twitter/tumblr, it'll be more about liking him as a character than generic izcourse. when it comes to izzy discourse, it kinda has flashes across izzy side of fandom where people respond in short bursts before largely just moving on. can't say the same about izzy haters.

when it comes to responding to things, i largely think there's not a point in direct interaction, however, i wouldn't say it's completely without merit. sometimes i'll respond to long "meta" in the izzy tag literally just because if i have to see your bullshit take then you have to deal with mine as well. that's the tradeoff for being obnoxious in the izzy tag.

i think there can be value in correcting misinformation or refusing to allow the narrative to be controlled completely by izzy haters. "here's why izzy is racist" is annoying and i don't think the main people perpetuating this will ever admit they're wrong. Still, at the same time a lot of these posts are full of misinformation. this misinfo gets parroted throughout fandom and that's bad. "donkey is a slur against polynesians" is a good example. it's not. that was made up on tumblr. every polynesian person i've ever seen comment on this has all said that they have never encountered this as a slur irl. find me a single source outside of tumblr that says "donkey is a slur against polynesians" for fucking real.

the issue with this though is what constitutes as harassment. disagreement doesn't equate to harassment. responding to someone's meta isn't harassment. izzy haters purposefully position disagreement against them as harassment and instances of bigoted behavior. i remember someone once listing an example of how izzy stans are racist as "made fun of a post about how izzy is homophobic." the poster was white. the person who made fun of it was me, a black fan. this isn't racism. at most this is me being a bitch.

i don't think that necessarily means that you should never interact, disagree, vague, or screencap random bullshit. i do think you need to be intentional as well as firm. it will only harm you more if you concede to allowing people to describe your actions as abusive when you know for a fact that they are not. words like harassment, racism, homophobia, stalking, abuse, etc all have meaning. they have definitions and while there can be gray areas when it comes to certain things, the limitations for what constitutes as abusive does not change just because you've arbitrarily decided that you are the good guy in this interaction.

overall, i think there can be times when having conversation, even ones of disagreement, has value. i don't think everybody with a shitty opinion is a malicious actor who needs to be discarded immediately. that said, there are groups in fandom who have demonstrated time and time again to have zero ability to self reflect and are overall narcissistic, self obsessed, navel gazing folks deadset on defending their ignorance to the death. there isn't any use in direct engagement. all it does is feed a perpetual victim mentality and gives them the attention they so desperately crave.

also? while we're here? keep receipts. i'm not even joking. screencap shit when you do have a direct confrontation. if you criticize someone's meta make sure you have their exact words. when someone insults you keep that on hand. people straight up lie on here and when they do shit like say "izzy bought ed as a slave" or "you can go send izzy stans hate for all i care" or "i'm not being passive aggressive, i'm being aggressive" hold them to that. if not for any other reason other than the fact that it's kinda funny watching them lie on their mother that they never actually said this and clearly this was a misinterpretation that only occurred because they are 12 years old and super sleepy when they wrote this and didn't actually mean it like that :((

[coveredinbees]

I've been seeing some people on Twitter calling Matt Bomer a zionist, and I have thoughts. I've included a cut here, so people don't have to read my mad political rantings if they don't want to. I know people are going to get mad at me, but, well... I can't help that.

Before I start, let me just get a few points straight:

Above all else, I support Palestine. They have been subject to gross apartheid for many fucking years, and what is happening right now is not a conflict between one state and another - it is the starvation and genocide of civilian people. The state of Israel must be condemned for their actions.

I also acknowledge that we need to be careful about the language we use when discussing Israel and Palestine. Because there are antisemetic people out there who will try and piggy back on pro-Palestinian arguments, ('fellow travelers', if you will); and honestly, fuck racists. It is possible, (even necessary), to openly condemn the actions of a government, without allowing racist narratives to bleed into the conversation. But we need to check ourselves.

Yes, I agree, Hamas are a terrorist organisation and they are fucking awful.

The big question is, "Is Matt Bomer a zionist? " And the unfortunate answer is, I don't know. If it turns out he is, then y'all stand aside, and I will yeet him off the cliff myself, but so far, all I've seen him accused of is posting the Israeli flag in his Instagram stories, (undated), and I suspect he might be one of the many celebrities out there who posted their support for one side, without doing any surface-level digging beyond what he saw in the media. Maybe he isn't a zionist, you guys. It's entirely possible - nay, likely - that he is just a dumb bitch, like the rest of us.

But we do live in a cancel culture society, and we do not tend to give a lot of leeway for people to be ill-informed or make mistakes on social media. Don't get me wrong - some people should be cancelled. But what I want to encourage here is critical thinking. Don't just cancel people because of a random tweet you saw. Ask yourself, "Is this person bad, or are they misinformed?" I mean, maybe it will turn out he does support the State of Israel in their actions, in which case - fuck him. But then, maybe it will turn out that he's human and he made a mistake. The dude did just win an award for his human rights work, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, until someone can give me categorical proof that Matt Bomer supports genocide.

Weigh things objectively. Decide for yourself. I am not here to tell you what to think. But personally, I want more information before I start boycotting him, or harassing him on social media, as I see some people are already doing.

If you feel that passionately about Palestine, good. You should be passionate, what is happening is horrendous. But turning that passion into vitriol for dumb celebrities is not very practical. Donate to Amnesty International, join one of the many 'Pro-Palestine' marches happening globally, or write to your MP. It all seems so small, but every little thing we do helps.

And thank you for reading. I'm always up for discourse, if anyone wants to have a conversation about this.

[lexa-griffins]

thanks loads for the quick response, you were so lovely!! 🌸 as i said i’m just starting to educate myself so i don’t want to get things wrong or support someone who doesn’t deserve it. for example, Eliza.. like im still confused about this other topic bc i’m not interested enough, my heart already belongs to Alycia and i mean Alycia only, so… that’s what i’m focusing on. okay so basically that’s what i thought, the “could’ve handled it better” was about her not actually handling it at all, in a way, which i like to believe has nothing to do with her “hating” lexa (it’s something i keep reading online and idk where it comes from) or her fans. Bad advices and likely her trying to save Jason’s a** lead her to shut the discourse. but if this makes sense for the first weeks/months following lexa’s death, what i don’t understand is why she did seem annoyed when fans brought up lexa to conventions etc. but if she hated the fans and/or lexa, i can’t possibly believe she would’ve ever accepted to come back to the show for the finale. she came back bc she cared (about lexa, i mean SHE played her for gods sake, it must be hella important for her as well!!) and knew it was important for the fans, i guess. I’m almost scared to talk about this as i know Eliza’s fans are mad about it and especially Eliza/b0b supporters (i’ve seen enough on Twitter dear lord) but if what some people say is true, that he asked Jason to fire her bc he was jealous of her success, then maybe HIM being fired was also one of the reasons she willingly came back? like don’t get me wrong, i’m sure a big fat paycheck played a huge part too 😅 but trying to add more pieces to the puzzle here, as i really know like 40% of what happened behind the scenes with Jason and all when lexa was killed off, so again, i’m sorry if this always ends up being super long but i’m trying to do my homework here 📋🖊️ (and you genuinely are super kind btw which i’m super grateful for 😭)

I have never opened my mouth about the E and B topic because I am not about to open that can of worms or invite their fans to fight me here. I was a huge E fan and just a week before all the shit came out i was talking to a friend about how i wish clarke and her got the same love Lexa and Alycia do... that came back to bite me in the ass real quick 😅 you guys know how much i love Clarke but damn was it impossible for a bit there for me to be able to watch clexa and clarke scenes again and be able to seperate e from Clarke. We clearly got there tho 😌

In a way, I can understand why she was a little annoyed at cons. Alycia never went to a con with the main intent of talking about Lexa, she was on FTWD, she was probably very excited about it and was sent there to talk about it and yet every question she got was about a character that st that point she had not played in maybe a year if you account for the time between filming and the episodes coming out. And its probably nerve wracking to have a room full of people who care so deeply for a character and that are part of a community that is marginalized and her having to say the right thing. Not to meantion like most actors sometimes the line betwwen Lexa the character and Alycia the actor got a little blurred and i get the sense Alycia is the type of actor who wants a clear separation between herself and the character. Maybe wrongly so she tried to distance herself from Lexa not because she hates the fans but because it was what she and others around her felt was right for her career having just started on a new show.

We know B was most likely fired but I doubt that he was the reason why Alycia left. I truly think Jrot believe he was doing something with Lexa's death and that he was telling a epic story, i really think any other story of B wanting her gone and what is now know its false about her not being able to do both shows (AMC was ready to let her continue on the show, i wish i could link you a source to this) - making Alycia agreeing with Jason probably just PR trying to not cause a drift. Alycia (and Jason) kind of alluded to the fact that there had been chances for Lexa to come back before but that Alycia didn't feel comfortable with it and I do think that shows that she respected the fans and didn't want to be used as a prop to make fans to watch the show again. Her being in the finale was a surprise (well, not to me and many others because it felt like there had been hints being dropped for a good while). While i dont doubt the nice pay check wasnt an incentive Alycias entire message for the shows finale felt very sincere to me and very clearly dedicated to the fans. Blorke/B/E fans (well, B fans, lets be real here they only care for her because shes with him, they used to call her names before that) think that just because Alycia is both rather private and doesnt try to take fans money left and right that she hates her fans and hates Lexa. I just think that Alycia didnt really speak up when it was the time for it for whatever reason - i dont think it was out of malicious intent but i do think she should have said more - and talking about it now would just come across as trying to stir something up unless it was directly asked of her to talk about it. Id like to think she has proven herself an ally and a decent person where i dont think she has to talk about Lexa for me to consider her "forgiven" for not speaking up back then.

No need to say sorry, i totally get trying to understand what the fuck happened in this fandom of ours 😅 i just hope im saying things accurately because i have been here since mid 2015 so some things really get blurry around the edges. There used to be master posts or something im sure that explained things because this was a whole thing that last through most of 2016.

☺️ i might not remember or know how to answer everything but if you have any more questions about the fandoms history and if i can help and respond, feel free to ask me! :)

[fru1typunch]

So, this post blew up fast (mostly because of @neil-gaiman reblogging it) and I noticed something interesting in the replies and reblogs.

Firstly, I was told on TikTok to "post that on Tumblr, that's where all the fandom discourse is!" So, I did, even though I don't use Tumblr too much.

And on here, I'm being told to "post that on Twitter, the fandom over there really needs to hear it!" Which, I had already posted it over there, but fine.

And over there, I was told "Nah, the TikTok fandom needs to hear this the most, they're crazy!" As if this ISN'T reposted from my TikTok account.

(Refer to the second paragraph to see what the folks on TikTok have to say. Continue cycling through each claim of where the "bad" fandom is until you go crazy.)

Equally amongst all platforms are variations of "I've heard of this happening but have never actually seen any discourse anywhere, are fandom members actually fighting over headcanons?" types of comments.

Conclusion; the idea that everyone is at each other's throats is blown way out of proportion, and it's a non-existent problem. My original post may seem like I'm saying disrespect is a huge problem in the fandom, but it actually started from me and a friend talking about how we like to see ourselves in certain characters in different ways. Stop pitting fandom against fandom; we're all in the SAME fandom no matter which site we're using. There's actually way less discourse than I think a lot of people let on. On the internet, the angry voices usually get the megaphones of mass destruction. They're only loud because you're making them be heard.

Remember that fandom is a family, and the Ineffable fandom is a fairly kind and open one at that. Just keep being respectful to one another, even if you disagree about little things like character headcanons. At the end of the day, which is more important to you; having the "right" headcanons, or having kindness?

(Also; use he/him pronouns when referring to me, thanks. And yes, I did intentionally match the text colors to my red and blue streaks of hair. Everything is meant.)

I was told to share my TikTok on respecting each other's Good Omens headcanons here on Tumblr so HERE;

now can we all just shut up and hold hands or something (since aziracrow can't anymore)

[the-good-bad-truth]

Unpopular opinion: While I agree with Megan and believe feminism is necessary but imperfect (due to its historical exclusion of intersectionality), I still think she’s fully accepted within it. Maybe it’s my algorithm (I knew I shouldn’t have followed those fan pages of his that spam her), but all I see are white girls defending her on Twitter. Even in trending topics, the backlash Flo Milli received isn’t nearly on the same level as the support Megan got after breaking similar news. Flo—who ironically paid homage to Jennifer's Body while collaborating with Megan Thee Stallion—seems to be in a stronger position than Fox but received far less support and more criticism. Meanwhile, Megan, though criticized, was still excused and painted as someone who “doesn’t know any better,” at her big age, whose love has blinded her. This same narrative is being confirmed and pushed by her sources in multiple articles. To me, Megan’s “white woman tears” give her a front-row seat at the feminist table.

Yes, she is perfect for feminism like you said because she is an attractive, thin white woman with money. Now that you mention when the news first broke out it was a lot of women that were white.

Also, I just go to mention here, I love me some flo milli, she is beautiful and so talented, and I wish her the best on her pregnancy.

But back to the conversation, I did see the discourse or rather the difference in reactions from both. Flo, if I'm correct is 25, so like 10 years or so younger than Megan and she was kind of being seen as being ghetto or stupid for having a baby.

Now this might be projecting my own opinions, but I do not like the idea of women having children at least in the environment or world we are in right now where productive rights are being taken away, money is tight, we are being ruled by stupid men.

But also, Flo and Megan have money and should be able to provide for the child, so it's fine. But I do agree Megan is older, she has 3 other kids, she should know better. Like you said white women tears.

I feel like Megan is the perfect example of white women tears or how they are coddled more than woman of color. Megan was fired for calling the producer Hitler and the producer was Jewish, so its kind of is like Megan, let's be real, you should have not said that. And I'm sure she faced weird, inappropriate shit on set, but they sort of dismiss her part in this or they use it to excuse her behavior on other shit that is not at all related to her being blacklisted, to this day.

Melissa Barrea, a Mexican American actress who was in the scream franchise was fired or kicked out of the film for speaking up about Palestine and was deemed as antisemitic and against Jews when that was not at all what she saying. People called her out for that and hated on her for standing up for a cause. And the thing is the movie production did not care until a lot of people had to speak up about it and come to her defense (I saw mostly Latinas and or gen z) But Melissa I believe stood her ground and was like I'm not going back to work for those people that go against my beliefs.

Versus Megan who ended up making up with Michael Bay and worked with him again when her career was drying up and to this day is like nothing bad happened I was being dramatic, feminist did not listen to me back then even though "I was the start of the me-too movement" because I was too hot, so I'm done talking but by my poetry book.

Like speak up Megan, advocate, share your story to help the younger girls or the actresses that come after you so they don't have to put up with that shit.