#but despite that... he was a likeable villain

[queenoftsage]

Hwayi: A Monster Boy

'HEY, can you draw me!?' ... the dreaded question artists are always asked. He handled it well... XD

[part 1 of 2]

Part 2

[astranauticus]

damn nothing gives motivation to draw like becoming really unwell about a guy huh. if i dont draw liu xiao's band au fit in the next 36 hours im gonna start chewing through walls

[liulith]

We as a fandom need to open our hearts to the insane comedic potential of Sir Pentious being included as a background character in stories taking place in the "old days" before Vox and Alastor's falling out. AND the comedic potential of one-sided Sir Pentious -> Vox.

Why?

Canon!Sir Pentious is attached to his era's aesthetics but he also wants to be "hip and cool" (see pilot episode; Sir Pentious as the how do you do fellow kids meme) and join the "Almighty Vees". When did he start wanting that? He's not a media demon trying to keep up with his audience and be a likeable public figure. He's a mechanic trying to conquer Hell by force thanks to his machines and obviously relishes in acting like a villain (fear me! I'm so evil! I'm the architect of destruction! etc. etc).

This is very different from the Vees' approach - maintaining a perfect public image, insidious manipulation tactics... Vox threatens Alastor in the show, but the Vees clearly haven't built their power through turf wars, which is and has always been Pentious' one and only strategy. All the machines we've seen him make are war weapons (+ the Egg Boyz who do his bidding, and help him operate those very weapons). Voxtek probably sells weaponry too but that is more Camilla's domain, so it would be more logical for Pentious to try and join her.

Pentious' and the Vees agenda and interests aren't aligned, so why is Pentious so desperate to join the Vees?

there are many reasons why Pentious could want to be part of the Vees besides the one I'm gonna talk about but you know what MY agenda is:

Vox is Pentious' idol. Pentious is an inventor, an innovator. He would have loved waking up in Hell with a mechanical body he can upgrade however he wants and finds the whole concept fascinating.

He's not against new technology, as his creations clearly go beyond what people could have had invented in his time despite their "steampunk" aesthetic (see: the effing death ray). So I think his current "limitations" are more a matter of him having to stick with what he knows best because it's hard to keep up with the constant stream of new tech. This is why he's more than impressed with Vox's extraordinary ability to adapt to change and master new technologies again and again. He's a fellow innovator! That's one reason for Pentious to be obsessed with the guy.

And if you think obsessed isn't the right word, think about this: Sir Pentious repeatedly challenges Alastor to fights even though he's clearly outmatched and it's an incredible risk to take considering what Alastor does. Pentious is OLDER than Alastor, he was there when he broadcast the most powerful Overlords' scream all over Hell. Plus, losing always leaves him in a very vulnerable position (without his best weapons). Is it madness? Hubris? An obsession for Alastor? No!

Sir Pentious to Alastor: Silence! Now Cower! For when I've slain you, the Almighty Vees will finally acknowledge me!

Sir Pentious thinks defeating Alastor is the only way the Vees will finally acknowledge him. No matter how dangerous it is, he has to try, for the Vees (Vox). Just like he took the risk of angering the Princess of Hell to get in Vox's good graces. This says a lot, for someone as paranoid as him, who doesn't trust anyone who is "too nice" to him.

If Hazbin had more episodes there should have been one about Pentious struggling with the fact he disappointed his idol and told to KHS 👀

(btw this is old news but we know that one of the Hazbin episodes that Viv originally pitched was about a science contest organized by Voxtek in which Pentious and Baxter competed against each other! Pentious could have done that after ep2!)

Anyway, back to the comedic potential of it all & Vox's arrival in Hell. Can you imagine his reaction as a newly fallen Sinner, when he's hanging out with Alastor (aka following him like a lost puppy?) and he meets Sir Pentious for the first time? Like sure, Hell is full of insane people but Alastor obviously has a Reputation and no one ever challenges him. And suddenly... Hm... Alastor?? There's an airship with a giant cannon pointed right as us?? Firing a DEATH RAY?!

It's also so funny to imagine Sir Pentious being obsessed with Alastor and considering him his archnemesis back in the day, only to slowly become obsessed with Vox instead and only caring about defeating Alastor because he thinks Vox will like it. It starts with Sir Pentious trying to "gather intel" on Alastor's new "ally", spying on them or sending his Egg Boyz to do so (and we already know great he is at spying so you can guess how that goes lol), and the rest is history.

Alastor loves attention so he probably let Pentious spy on him behind bushes from time to time if only because it's very entertaining to watch him try to be discrete and make his shadow tap on his shoulder. How hilarious would it be if Alastor noticed Sir Pentious' growing crush on Vox but not Vox's crush on him? Also, Vox misunderstanding Pentious and Alastor's relationship and thinking Pentious is a weird obsessive ex... The world is a stage and the stage is a world of entertainment!

[frogdisco2021]

I really hate to say it but they did Luke's betrayal and characterization better in the show. In the books he's just evil, he throws litter in a river to signify his badness (littering is bad, kids) and then tries to kill Percy in cold blood. In the show he seems genuinely confused and conflicted, like someone who's gone mad and doesn't realize it and doesn't get why the people around him are looking at him like that. He seems hurt that Percy gave the shoes to Grover and also doesn't seem to realize why Percy can't see that it wasn't meant as a betrayal. He seems to believe himself, that it wasn't meant as a betrayal and that he still considers Percy his friend. He only attacks when Percy mentions his father, and the look on his face the moment before is brilliant, this is a person who has snapped. This is a confused kid who has been groomed and recruited for war by something much more ancient, powerful, and evil than himself. It sets up his eventual final redemptive act much better. The Last Olympian will always be iconic but it is kind of strange how he's mustache-twirlingly evil for 5 books and then seppuku's himself in a single moment of clarity at the end and can be considered a hero for it despite all the death and destruction he caused leading up to it. It's setting him up to be much more tragic and likeable as a villain.

[leoleolovesdc]

It’s so weird that Heathers the musical toned down so many things from the story (Veronica’s gray morality, JD’s behavior as a whole, Kurt and Ram’s sa on the girls, etc.) but decided to make the Heathers way bigger assholes than they are in the movie.

McNamara doesn’t do anything in the movie, she just goes along with Chandler and kicks Veronica one time at the beginning but then in the musical she’s setting up a fcking date rape??? She goes along with the boys during Sword Fight in Her Mouth and is just a bitch to Veronica all of the time, but everyone in the fandom (and also Veronica somehow) kind of ignores it because she acts innocent.

Duke, even though she isn’t made that much worse from her movie version, (except for the date rape thing with McNamara) is also way more agressive and obnoxious. In the movie, even after Duke turns into a Chandler carbon copy she’s still a funny and likeable character. In the musical she is an asshole even before Chandler dies and her and Veronica keep antogonizing each other from beginning to end when in the 1989 version they were pretty much friends until the last minute.

I think one could make an argument that Duke’s bullying of McNamara is also worse in the musical, but I’m a bit lazy to adress that, so just have in mind that in the musical she’s also more agressive, screaming at Mac at live TV instead of just writing “poor little Heather” on the board.

Chandler in the musical is more of a cartoon character than a person. She screams at everything and everyone for no reason whatsoever, she isn’t necessarily a worse person, just very flanderized and, I’m sorry, but I can’t believe that somone who acts that way could even have a chance of climbing so high on the social hierarchy of a school. Heather in the movie was a bitch, but she knew how to keep up appearances. She acted nice, she played people, she never had to scream to get things to go her way, that was how she managed to be so powerful.

The movie is a parody of teenage narratives, the musical takes that parody and plays it straight. That’s how you get an absurd story where the three mean girls of the school are annoying bitchy monsters and the literal murderer is a sympathetic villain.

I think the Heathers 1989 is interesting because of how literally everyone is a bad person, but at the same time not everyone is the same kind of bad.

You have bad Chandler, an fatphobic asshole who doesn’t care about anything unless it affects her. You have bad Kurt and Ram, homophobic, sexist guys who have raped multiple girls. You have bad McNamara, only follows other people’s leads which makes her act like an asshole. You have bad Duke, is not evil when controlled but when given the opportunity she will become an asshole. You have bad Veronica, an uncaring and murderous person who in the end makes the right choice. And you have bad JD, the kind of guy who he thinks he’s justified in blowing up a whole school just because everyone there kind-of-really-fucking-sucks.

All of these people are assholes and some of them should be in jail, but that doesn’t make the psycho who’s killing them some kind of martyr, he’s still just as bad, maybe even worse, than all ofthe others. The musical makes JD look justifiable.

He was good person, he was just traumatized!

If only he had gotten help!

No. Just no. JD was psycho. He was trying to blow up a school. That’s not justified, doesn’t matter what sort of heroic reason he may have he had. Which, by the way, he didn’t. He wasn’t killing people because they were assholes, he was killing people because he was an asshole.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. Yes, I still love all of thsoe characters despite how much shit I talked about all of them, sorry this got long, one thing lead to another, and now I have spent like two hours writing this and my arms hurt from holding an ipad. Bye.

[lazy-sixteen]

I was thinking about the themes of One Piece, and what differentiated out characters we see as good versus bad, especially in a work that takes a really accepting view of different moral standpoints and values (Coby and SWORDS's justice is very different from Sabo and the RA's justice but they are both presented as good guys we'd want to root for).

So like, why do we root for Luffy following his dream to be Pirate King, but not Teach?

What about hating Crocodile who wanted to create an ideal society free of the WG but not the RA who want something similar for whole the world?

Big Mom who wants to create a place where all sentient are equal and get along versus Koala and/or Otohime who dream of that same thing for humans and fishmen?

I mean the obvious answer is that protagonists and their allies tend to be likeable - they are usually drawn prettier, have less kick the dog moments, and we get more time with them as an audience. They have to be on some level, or no one would read the manga.

But from an in-story perspective, I think its a an under looked facet of Luffy's character, for him chasing his dream is more important than obtaining it. It's why he turns down Rayleigh straight up offering to tell him where Laugh Tale is, and what is on it. What is important to Luffy isn't so much becoming Pirate King, it is being free, having fun, sailing with his friends on the journey to be Pirate King.

It's why he helps Vivi in Alabasta, Cricket in Skypiea, Shirahoshi in Fishmen Island, and the Wano crew in uhh Wano (the journey wouldn't be fun if he'd abandoned his friends to do it)

It's why he takes dangerous detours to places like Little Garden or Sky Island or Punk Hazard(the journey wouldn't be fun if he didn't get to explore)

It's why he risks his life against Arlong for Nami and declares the entire world his enemy for Robin and literally threatens to starve to death to get Sanji back ( the journey wouldn't be fun if he can't do it with his crew by his side)

All of this is why, Luffy isn't afraid of dying either. He can die at any point on his journey to being Pirate King, and feel no regret because the journey itself was the important part.

Compare this to two other D.'s Law and Blackbeard.

Law's also relentlessly pursuing his dream when we meet him (stop Doflamingo to avenge Cora), and he is miserable.

Law in trying to achieve his dream whatever the cost keeps putting himself in situations he hates.

He leaves his beloved crew behind because the mission is basically a suicide run. He cozies up to the Government he hates and hands his heart over to a morally bankrupt mad scientist he's obviously disgusted by. He plans to get Doflamingo in trouble with Kaido, which mean 1) he likely won't get to punch out Mingo himself, 2) there is a high probability of civilians getting caught in the crossfire/dying horribly.

This journey sucks. If Law had died during any point of this he would have been the world's most pissed off ghost.

It's Luffy and the Strawhats busting in and transforming that journey that puts Law on the path to success with his dream and with not being so goddamn miserable.

Like screw Caesar, let;s have Luffy kick his ass and then you fix the children he was experimenting on. Screw playing nice with the government, do what you want and call us your allies instead. Screw Doflamingo, you and Luffy go beat him up and the rest of us will pull his government/crime family down around his ears.

And it works! Law's grumpy and annoyed and cursing Luffy out, but he tells Mingo he believes Luffy can pull out a miracle and looks more at peace watching Doflamingo and Luffy brawl - knowing that he'll die or succeed with his ally/friend - than he ever did with his fool-proof plan.

The journey before destination thing is also why Blackbeard feels like a special type of evil in OP despite there being technically worse/more evil villains, because Blackbeard always prioritizes his dream over how he gets it.

He'll stay in the shadows for 20 years to increase his chances of success (wouldn't it have been more fun to be a captain like he obviously wants?)

He'll kill his crewmate, turn his commander in for a reward, then kill his captain (wouldn't it have been more fun to stay friends, he never indicates he hates/dislikes them?)

He invites strong people - and strong seems to be the only criteria - to join his crew, though tbh their personalities often suck. I don't recall any panel of his crew just hanging out or joking around which even Baroque Works, Buggy's crew, and Kaido's Beast Pirates get (wouldn't it have been more fun to recruit people he can befriend, not just people he can use)

Like obviously Blackbeard feels like the antithesis of Luffy - even though they are both all about chasing their dreams. Luffy's all about the chasing, and Blackbeard only cares about the results.

[starker-sorbet]

Bleeding heavily and panicking at being betrayed by people he thought he could trust Peter didn't know where to go. He thought the Avengers were his friends and yet they easily handed him over to SHIELD to become a lab rat for their experimentations. It was only because they underestimated his strength that he got away, but not unscathed. As he swings through the city streets he finally sees somewhere that might be safe. Stark tower. The home of Tony Stark otherwise known as the villain Superior Iron man. Everyone knew who he was but he had enough power and money to stay free. Peter had fought the older man on occasion and despite being on opposite sides found him charming and potentially likeable. And if how Stark flirts with him is any indication maybe he might like Peter too.

He just hopes that Stark's flirtatious offer of joining him was serious. Because Peter had nowhere else to go.

Nowhere else to go for @starkerfestivals Whumptober

[mellosdrawings]

I mean Vil's group could have won if it haven't been for the overblot. I mean based on votes, it would have been a tie have it not for Rook. If there is no overblot incident, I can picture they would been more votes than Neige but some chose Neige because of how exhausted they are making them loose some votes.

No hate and no justification on Neige winning and no Vil-shaming. I just think if Vil just ignored the comments from others, he wouldn't have try to murder him leading him to winning since that way the group wouldn't be exhausting.

MORE BOOK 5 SPOILERS

Yup. But that's the fun of tragedies: it happens this way because those are these characters.

If Vil had more confidence in himself and his work, none of that would have happened. But it's Vil. He's been "groomed" his whole life into seeing himself as a villain who could never win against Neige's natural likeable-ness. He never could have not had a breakdown because he's always obsessed over it and suddenly lost all confidence as soon as he ended up face to face with the one person he always wished to surpass.

Had it not been Vil, there wouldn't have been an Overblot that caused their loss.

But had it not been Vil, the group wouldn't have had an original song and dance, and they wouldn't have worked even half as hard to get a win. They also wouldn't have the cookie points of Vil's fame weighing in the audience's final decision.

Whether Vil was there or not, they were doomed to lose.

That's tragedy. And I love it.

(You can do the same thing with Rook. Had he been different or not there, the tragedy wouldn't have happened. But his presence counterbalances Vil. They both search for beauty but one has a very bad perception of himself and high standards of beauty while the other sees beauty absolutely everywhere. They are supposed to be mirrors who end up hurting each other despite being so close to each other. They lift each other up while bringing the other down.)

The point of my rant isn't that they shouldn't have lost. It was important for Vil. The point was that they shouldn't have started two/three very important character storylines for which losing negates all their development.

Jamil needed a win so that, for the first time in his life, his hard work could be rewarded (or hell, make him lose there and have a badass moment in Book 6, the point is that the story is unfairly cruel to him)

Epel needed to one-up Neige somehow to finish his character growth. To finally properly weaponize his cuteness and charming face. As far as I've read, that never happened.

Kalim and Deuce also had beginnings of character arcs that were never truly finished in this Book.

That's what's bothersome with this Book 5. It has a lot of good ideas and is very interesting, but it just... doesn't work. Not the only Book I have grievances with but it's the one that messes the most characters' arcs.

[maxphilippa]

people not getting nickel at all is so funny to me.

dude. what part of "he was acting out of fear because he didn't want to get manipulated by balloon since he did have story with him back then in s1, and wanted to protect his friends/alliance, and EVEN IF HE MESSED UP A LOT WITH SUITCASE AND BALLOON, it wasn't out of malice, but out of misguided fear and lack of proper communication that turned into something worse due to Nickel's nature." you don't get. it's not about forgetting what he did or treating him as likeable or anything. he very much didn't forgive himself over what happened and let BALLOON HIMSELF KNOW that he DIDN'T have to forgive him. he is OKAY with accepting his faults and with balloon not wanting to be part of that change because HE RECOGNIZES THAT HE WAS AN ASSHOLE TO SUITCASE AND TO HIM. CLOVER'S THERAPY SESSION DID SOMETHING TO HIM. HE'S TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS.

of course i can totally get not liking him on s2, he wasn't really one of my faves but hey! he grew and recognized that what he did was wrong! adam himself said that he did care about suitcase and bb, but his lack of EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE doomed their alliance. nickel isn't justifying himself with "oh but i was scared of balloon", he is accepting that his fear towards him changed into something else that he couldn't control.

also btw have you considered that they didn't know what to do with nickel on s2. if you deeply analyze him it makes sense as to why he changed so much on s3. "ohhhhh but he was a dick to Suitcase since the start" again. have you considered that nickel's writing has changed a lot over time. he's pure snark there but even then still cared mid-late s2. i could do a whole separate post analyzing his relationship with Suitcase from both of their perspectives but that's not the point. if that was the point of his thing with suitcase it wouldn't made sense for nickel to say "i just wanted to keep what we had".

AS WELL I WANT TO NOTE SOMETHING. His relationship with Balloon getting better WASN'T out of nowhere. On the comics, Balloon sent Nickel a letter when he wanted to fix things with others, and maybe that was also a factor that played for Nickel too. Remember that Nickel is a guy that acts first and thinks later. As well, Balloon references that Nickel and him used to trick Yinyang back at the Hotel. Nickel changed a lot in s3 and didn't have Baseball who was excusing his unhealthy behaviour either. Box helped these two to grow for the better.

tl;dr: nickel has one of those arcs that i need to study like a bug and everyone still treating him like a villain despite wanting to grow and understanding that his actions were terribly wrong is so funny to me. also balloon very much did end up liking the guy genuinely when they were friends as well. people can grow and change. people who had terrible relationships can heal and can get better.

[oldtvandcomics]

The Lucifer/Alastor rivalry is so fun, because, well, Hell's Greatest Dad sing-off, but also, while they have strikingly similar designs, Alastor is much, MUCH better at being satanic than Lucifer is.

First of all, they really look VERY similar. In a show where every character has such a unique design, I remember feeling disappointed the first time I saw a picture of what Lucifer would look like, because it was so similar to Alastor. Same general shape, same coat, they even both have a staff of some kind. Only of course, if you were to remove all the apple, snake and radio elements from their costumes and show this picture to someone who doesn't know Hazbin Hotel and ask which of the two is the Devil, they would definitely pick Alastor. He is taller, wears dark red instead of white, and his ears look like horns.

It goes even further. Among all demons, Alastor is by far the most demonic. When he transforms he really becomes absolutely monstrous. Lucifer meanwhile is angelic.

Within the story, Lucifer doesn't do much, especially not any Devil activities. He's just trying to dissociate from his depression by making rubber ducks. Meanwhile, Alastor is the one who is working hard on gaining power, he is the one manipulating people, killing those who get in his way and chaining souls to himself by making deals. He is the one who uses his political connections to get Charlie an army at the end, and despite not being able to kill Adam, he does a very good job holding his own against him.

Hell's Greatest Dad was not about being Charlie's father figure, it was about Alastor trying to take Lucifer's place. Quite literally. "Can you butt out of my song!" "Your song?! I started this!" "I'm singing it, I'll finish it!" Yeah, so this is at the same time about 1) the literal song they're singing, 2) Charlie's life, and 3) Alastor taking Lucifer's place by pushing him to the side.

I still don't know why Alastor decided that picking a fight with Lucifer upon sight was a good idea, but, like, we can all agree that he is aiming for his place, mostly by getting Charlie to depend on him. Which is also what his line in Ready For This was: "She's filled with potential that I could guide / Stick with her you'll be on the winning side!"

Many people theorize that Alastor is the final bad guy in the show. I don't think so, he is WAY too likeable. He is, however, firmly on his own side, and will go against Charlie if he thinks that he'd benefit from it. And then switch back the last moment, obviously. He panicked now about being too kind, next season, he's going to try and be more ruthless, try to stop caring about the people he clearly started to consider his friends. But he has to end up on the side of the heroes for the audience to be happy. Villains need to be destroyed, we do NOT want Alastor to be destroyed.

No, in my opinion, he is going to take Lucifer's place as the Devil.

[yrrtyrrtwhenihrrthrrt]

One thing I like about Nimona that I haven't seen brought up yet (and maybe I'm alone here) is that Nimona becomes more sympathetic to the audience at the same pace that she becomes more sympathetic to Ballister (kinda long analysis below sorrys)

Like, I know not everyone agrees, but on my first watch of the movie, I found her downright annoying for the first like, quarter of the film. I don't find her annoying upon rewatch at all, I absolutely adore her, but the first time I watched it I reacted with a similar distaste as Ballister-- not because she was a shapeshifter or queer, obviously, but because she appears completely tone-deaf to Ballister's situation when the man is experiencing probably the worst thing anyone could imagine, she jeopardizes his reputation even more by pretending to be him while menacing the public, constantly undermines his efforts to minimize harm and clear his name, and just does as she feels without regard to others.

Then you start to learn why she acted that way, just as Ballister does. You (and Ballister) start to see that his efforts are in vain, that trying to minimize harm or clear his name doesn't work in his favor and is impossible to achieve, and Nimona knew that all along so of course she didn't care! She's seen this film before enough times to stop taking it seriously. If the outcome is always the same, why not have a little fun with it?

Her whimsical mannerisms start to look less annoying and tone-deaf and more powerful and brave (that she could be so determined to be herself despite everything). She starts to look less carefree, and more jaded. You realize that she's only carefree because it hurts too much to care.

And Ballister's line "Let's break stuff" is the turning point where we see that she (or rather, the Institute) has taught him to embrace chaos and be himself, because they're not going to listen either way.

And the subsequent scene, where Ballister offers to take her away from the walls and she says "No, this isn't right, we have to take the Institute down" shows that Ballister taught her to care again because he proved that people can change. They both had an important lesson they needed to learn from the other, basically: "Don't expect the system to work in your favor but don't be a doomer about it either" lol

And it hurts when Bal turns on her because you can kinda see where he's coming from, it would make sense that a lonely, lonely creature would possibly sabotage someone else hated by society so that they could finally have a friend. It would explain why she acted so cavalier about his reputation, constantly threatened people and undermined him, made them both out to be far more villainous than they were. She was acting out of indifference, but it came across to him as malice, and while we the audience know that obviously the eponymous character isn't a twist villain, Ballister wouldn't, and further, how much easier would it be to believe that this one person double-crossed you, rather than to believe everything you ever knew was a lie? So he turned his back on her.

And he, and the audience see what a huge massive fuckup that was.

What I like is you don't even NEED her backstory to sympathize with her, and neither did Ballister. This isn't a case of "character was unbearable for the entire time but they have sad backstory so they're now likeable I guess Snape). She was already sympathetic and likeable. We already understood her. The backstory was just extra context, nothing more, and that is fucking excellent writing.

We slowly learn to love Nimona for herself at the same rate that Ballister does, rather than being irritated wishing she was something else. And I absolutely, absolutely love that. She doesn't "become" more likeable, you learn that she was likeable all along.

[valzhangism]

the downgrade of villains from pjo to hoo is so disappointing. luke castellan was such a good villain with an interesting backstory and motivations and it HURTS to see the villain that succeeds him. because gaea, to put it bluntly, kind of sucks. 

she has no emotional heart, no theme or message to send. she doesn't have a character you can sympathise with, she's not out-there enough to be hated strongly, she's not likeable enough to be one of those charming villains. the series flip-flops between trying to give her good qualities but never expanding on any of them, and trying to make her pure evil but never making her commit to it enough to be enjoyable.

she's just there. she's little more than a plot device, the Ultra Big Bad that we have to fight. and sometimes there's nothing wrong with that! but considering how hoo fails in every other aspect, the bland villain is just another disappointment. luke was what made the original pjo so good — the themes he carried, the tragedy of his life, the base of his character which served as the main core of the story, the balance between good intentions and the corruption of self.

as a result, gaea is just... fine. she’s not an absolutely terrible villain, but she looks second-rate compared to luke and kronos, despite being a lot more powerful, simply because they were much richer in themes and storytelling. even the decent villainous chemistry she has with leo and hazel isn’t enough to carry her to being interesting. 

but credit where it’s due, i’ll say toa did much better with villains. the portrayal of abuse with nero and meg, the romance between apollo and commodus, caligula's sadism and lust for power, all had way more personality than gaea ever did. (even if i AM still bitter about how a series with the roman emperors as villains wasn't centred around camp jupiter.)

[honestlyvan]

I do kind of wonder if the implicit assumption that Door is mad at Alan for involving Saga should be re-examined a little bit.

The game is very careful to not frame any of Saga's relationships as paternalistic. Like, repeatedly, with emphasis, especially among the relationships with people who are close to her and have reasons to act protective over her. Having Door primarily be motivated by a sense of righteousness over someone messing with his protectorate goes against theme with her, and would single him out as the only male character whose help Saga does need.

Furthermore, we know Freya didn't seem to think that highly of Door, never telling Saga anything about him and being firm in not wanting to discuss the topic. Her considering Door a potential danger to Saga just like her powers and choosing to hide the truth to protect her wouldn't make sense if she, too, could use her seer powers to confirm that Door did have Saga's best interest at heart, and with Door existing outside of time, I don't think there's adequate signalling that this would be something he would have had a change of heart about.

Furthermore, while Door is very likeable and definitely not a villain or even an antagonist... he is very trickster-like, and seems very cavalier with how he chooses to interfere and when. From his interactions with the Old Gods, spending fourty years on kill-on-sight terms with them only to happily fanboy over having them on his show and collaborate with them to mess with Alan, to the way he almost deigned to let Alan create a hint for Saga about how to use her powers rather than letting Saga and Tim just work it out amongst themselves, he's playing the long game in every situation and seems to enjoy making the story take twists and turns because of his involvement.

So Door is in a weird superposition of meddlesome/hands-off largely because I almost got a sense that with Saga, he's keeping his distance on purpose. Keeping himself concealed and out of the conversation, despite much of her story being discovering her origins and discovering her own supernatural influence. Outside of letting Alan create a single manuscript page about him, he doesn't even hint at his own existence while Saga is in the Dark Place, theoretically right there for him to reach out to.

And if Door does ultimately think that surely any daughter of his can handle herself, there is one another innocent that has been involved in this all by Wake I could see him getting worked up over instead.

[david-talks-sw]

Okay so I watched Inside Man on Netflix. It's interesting. More importantly, it's a masterclass in crafting likeable characters and how the POV we follow in a scene affects the way we see a character. Also, this somehow relates to the Star Wars Prequels, I promise! 😆

The moral of the series is that "everyone is a murderer, all it takes is a good reason and a bad day." The main characters are:

A vicar who - through a huge misunderstanding - has now locked his son's tutor in his basement and doesn't know how to get out of this situation, played by David Tennant.

A convicted murderer and ex-criminal psychology professor who solves crimes from his cell, as he waits for his execution, played by Stanley Tucci.

So a man who locked a woman in his cellar and a guy who murdered his wife. In any other movie, these guys are the villains. Yet, both of these characters are extremely likeable!

This is achieved through how relatably they behave in their relationships (kind, humble, humorous)...

... and through the emotion and/or charisma brought by the actors playing them (it's THE DOCTOR/CROWLEY and Stanley Friggin' Tucci)... but also through the amount of screen time they get.

We're with them for most of the show. There's other characters (the journalist, the trapped tutor and the vicar's wife) and subplots, of course, but they're our two anchors.

So when I'm watching David Tennant lock his son's tutor in his cellar and consider if he should free her - only to see him and his wife make things worse - I'm not thinking "you monster" like I do when I see Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs for example.

No, I'm thinking "goddammit vicar you're making things worse, it'll come back to haunt you, there's still a chance to turn back, please!" I'm rooting for him to make the right choice because I'm seeing him struggle and despair and hesitate throughout many scenes.

When I'm watching Stanley Tucci guiltily say he deserves death, after being so darn charming, humble and in clear possession of a moral compass, my instinct as a viewer isn't to go "he's right".

It's to go "aaaw, no it's fine, everyone makes mistakes."

And these characters remain likeable and/or relatable for a huge chunk of time... until, every once in a while, the show reminds you that, "remember, these guys are criminals."

"One of them's killed his wife then decapitated her, and the other one is contemplating murder, so they did/are doing evil stuff, they're the villains and you shouldn't grow fond of them."

Then it goes back to making you empathize with them again.

It's quite the emotional roller-coaster, very intriguing yet frustrating, which I have to guess is exactly what the show is going for.

But the point is: the amount of time we spend with these characters is partially what elicits this emotional reaction out of us.

If we consider the tutor's character:

For all intents and purposes, we should feel sorry for her, or full-on fucking love her. Objectively-speaking, she's:

smart but obviously scared,

we establish early on that she has a brave heart and stands up for oppressed women,

she thinks she's trapped by a pedophile or a man defending a pedophile, figures he'll inevitably try to murder her, yet manages to stay resourceful, determined and cool-headed despite it all.

She's an absolute superhero.

But that's not how the narrative frames her.

She's framed as an antagonistic force, in the vicar's subplot.

She may be the one tied up in a basement, but she's in control and the vicar is not. She's almost framed as being in a position of power (when she's really not), which leads the audience to view Tenant's vicar as an underdog.

When the vicar is trying to look for alternatives to end this situation so that he doesn't have to kill her, she's unhelpful,

and even starts pitting the vicar and his wife against each other.

Again, in-universe, she's scared shitless and in "fight-or-flight" mode. She's putting up a front because she's just trying to get outta this alive. She's the victim, here, not the vicar who captured her.

But as a viewer, you don't feel that, despite objectively knowing that. Why and how?

Because we barely see this character, compared to Tenant's vicar. So we have more time to grow to feel for him. There's "why".

Also 90% of what we do see of the tutor is her being aggressive, manipulative, sometimes downright merciless and we're seeing her from the POV of the vicar or the vicar's wife. There's "how".

Result: the viewer feels sorry for the captor and frustrated towards the captive.

This isn't a rational reaction, it's an emotional one (the goal of any visual artform being to get an emotional reaction out of the viewer).

Which means the series and Stephen Moffat effectively did their job.

How does this relate to the Prequels?

Well, a lot of people see the Jedi in a negative light in the Prequels, and Anakin in a more sympathetic one.

Even though the Prequels are about how a good man becomes bad, and even though the Jedi embody one of the major Star Wars themes (selflesness) as opposed to Anakin who clearly displays the anti-theme (selfish)... a majority of fans feels more for the latter than the former. Why?

Because the Prequels unintentionally do what Inside Man does purposefully. You react to Anakin like you react to the vicar. You react to the Jedi like you react to the tutor.

Simply put: Anakin has more screen time than the Jedi. And we don't just see him more, we see him struggle, we see him about what he knows to be morally right vs what he really wants, we see him be overtaken by his own fear...

... and just by contrast, that makes him more relatable than the Jedi, who have already overcome their character arcs and mostly all learned to keep their flaws in check.

The narrative doesn't intend to frame them as antagonistic. We do see them talk about how worried they are, we do see them emote.

And if you think about it, it's easy to see why:

their entire way of life is going to crap,

their values are being corrupted as they're forced to fight and die, alongside their clone brothers, in a war they wanted no part of,

they sense that the Force is close to the breaking point and that the galaxy's inhabitants are suffering on the daily.

But, for example, when Mace or Ki-Adi Mundi are shown expressing concern in the Prequels... as worried as they are, in-universe... out-of-universe, their measured reactions doesn't emotionally impact a viewer as much as Anakin's intense ones do.

So a big chunk of the audience will sympathize more with him than them. But like the tutor in Inside Man, the Jedi are objectively the victims and Anakin is objectively an unstable space-nazi who betrayed and destroyed them.

Just because we're not shown these characters be worried beyond just monotonously saying "I'm worried" doesn't mean they're not actually worried as Anakin is in Revenge of the Sith (if not more).

However we don't see it.

Because these three films aren't about the Jedi Order, they're about the Republic and about Anakin and about how each of these two beautiful things were corrupted (by Palpatine and by themselves) into becoming the very thing they stood against.

The Jedi aren't a factor in either of those two themes set up by George Lucas.

They became a factor when fans - who despite not liking the Prequels, still admirably chose to engage with the material - made the Jedi be more important to the narrative of the Prequels by re-framing these films as "The Failure of the Jedi".

Now, should Lucas have recognized that most fans wouldn't give two shits about why a Republic falls or the "matinee serial" format, and would've rather he focused on the Jedi, and developed them accordingly? Probably.

But good luck telling an indie filmmaker with a bunch of money how to tell the story he wants to tell.

Could Lucas have done more with the Prequels to highlight the fact that the Jedi are the underdogs of the story, not Anakin's oppressors? Yes.

But, firstly, he probably didn't think that was a point that needed explaining. And secondly, as he explained at Cannes, in 2002, feature films are a very limiting format to tell a story, especially one of the Prequels' scale. If it doesn't directly contribute to the story you're telling... it's gotta go.

A limited show would've been better to cover every aspect of the Prequels more in detail and avoid confusing the audience re: who they should be rooting for.

Which is why it's interesting, to me, that Stephen Moffat used his limited show to INTENTIONALLY confuse the audience! 😃

[xjulixred45x]

Did you saw Ultraman Rising? Or more like ULTRAMAN RAISING😅 What is your opinion?

I saw it and MY GOD THE VISUAL SECTION IS CRAZY.

I heard that the company that made this movie is mainly focused on special effects, and IT SHOWS, especially in the use of lights and how the environments change depending on the context and what is happening around the characters.

The style of characters reminds me a lot of anime, which is understandable since it is set in Japan, and the small details they put into the setting are MWA.

I especially like the design of the mother Kaiju and, of course, Emi. especially how they animated the scene where the mother "dies" and how everything lights up when Emi is born.

The villain is not very deep or intimidating, but I think that was the point, Onda sees his job as eliminating an invasive species that killed his family, while Professor Sato sees them as creatures that are not conscious and it is not correct to attribute them this because they are not evil. They both have their points and are right to some extent.

I like that Onda didn't suddenly change his attitude towards his people, he really cares about HUMAN life, but only that. not the kaijus. we love a consistent villain.

Kenji is a nice character, at first a little uncomfortable for me because of his ego, but the more he shows his TRUE side, especially with Emi, the more likeable and endearing he becomes. especially with its plot with the grief of losing his mother and his relationship with his father.

How Wakita compares his relationship with his daughter and the relationship with Kenji and Emi seemed extremely tender to me because in general he does not romanticize the most important aspects of fatherhood, which I think is GREAT and that should be taken into account not only for the merit of laughs, but as a plot factor (which the movie does).

The parallels between Kenji and Emi and Mr. Sato with Kenji are adorable and painful at the same time, how Kenji really comes to care about Emi despite everything that happened to him up to that point and how thanks to her he mends his relationship with his father. seems appropriate.

I NEED AN EMI PLUSHIE I'M BEGGING YOU NETFLIX----

Although the story is somewhat predictable, I really like how it is executed and the sequel promises a lot.

Solid 8/10

____

la vi y DIOS MIO EL APARTADO VISUAL ES UNA LOCURA.

Oi que la compania que hizo esta película esta principalmente orientada en los efectos especiales, y SE NOTA, especialmente en el uso de las luces y como cambian los ambientes dependiendo del contexto y lo que pasa alrededor de los personajes.

el estilo de personajes me recuerda mucho al anime, lo cual es entendible pues esta ambientado en Japon, y los pequeños detalles que ponen en la ambientacion es MWA.

me gusta especialmente el diseño de la Kaiju madre y, por supuesto, Emi. especialmente el como animaron la escena donde la madre "muere" y como todo se ilumina cuando Emi nace.

el villano no es muy profundo o intimidante, pero justamente creo que ese era el punto, Onda ve su trabajo como eliminar una especie invasora que mato a su familia, mientras el profesor Sato los ve como criaturas que no son concientes y no es correcto atribuirles esto porque no son malvados. ambos tienen sus puntos y tienen razon hasta cierto punto.

me gusta que Onda no cambiara su actitud con su gente de repente, realmente le preocupa la vida HUMANA, pero solo eso. no los kaijus. amamos un villano consistente.

Kenji es un personaje agradable, al principio un poco incómodo para mi por su ego, pero cuanto mas se muestra de su VERDADERO lado, especialmente con Emi, se hace mas simpatico y entrañable. especialmente con su trama con el duelo de perder a su madre y su relación con su padre.

como Wakita compara su relación con su hija y la relación con Kenji y Emi me parecio tierna de sobremanera porque en general no romántiza los aspectos mas importantes de la paternidad, lo cual me parece GENIAL y que debe ser contado en cuenta no solo para merito de risas, sino como factor de la trama(lo cual hace la película).

los paralelismos entre Kenji y Emi y Sr. Sato con Kenji son adorables y dolorosos al mismo tiempo, como Kenji realmente llega a preocuparse por Emi pese a todo lo que le paso hasta ese punto y como gracias a ella arregla la relación con su padre me parece apropiado.

NECESITO UN PELUCHE DE EMI TE LO REUGO NETFLIX----

si bien la historia es algo predecible, me gusga bastante como lo ejecutan y la secuela promete mucho.

Solido 8/10

[dysfunctional-doodle]

Just watched Mutant Mayhem, here are my thoughts!

Overall: Yes, very good I suggest everyone watch it when they can or I will break your knees :)

I’m going to end up rambling far too much unless I split this properly, so I’m going to break it down into sections starting from what I believe is most important in a movie.

This post is still going to be a mess ngl

Story: 8/10

The story is actually very good! It was paced very well and ended in a very touching way. No character interactions or plot beats felt forced or cliché, and no forced identity politics which is always a plus.

The action scenes - of course they were amazing. Paired with the stellar animation, each action scene was brilliantly directed and choreographed. The start shows the turtles’ origin story is similar to most of the iterations with its own unique factors - in this case the ooze was created by Baxter Stockman.

The conflict of the plot was well written, the final act was great and ends with a hopeful and satisfying ending (there is a mid credit scene that teases something big for the series though!).

If it’s any consolation, it’s also very friendly to new fans of TMNT - I went with someone who has not seen any TMNT media before and they really liked it and understood it easily.

Characters: 9/10

Needless to say, all the characters were very well done. Despite its run time and large cast, each one feels grounded with their own unique personality.

For starters: the four main boys! They were done brilliantly - Mikey being hopeful and optimistic whilst naturally being empathetic, Raph channeling chaotic good energy with his iconic rage personality not being over the top, Donnie being a geek in the best way possible, and Leo trying to be a good leader and anxious, always looking out for his brothers but not a complete teachers pet. All very likeable, and I can’t wait to see them in the series!

Splinter: probably the best since 2003! Openly caring of his sons and worries a great deal about how humans will perceive them. Has his own trauma from his experience with humans so he tries to protect his sons by isolating them completely, but eventually realises that his own view of humans should not affect his son’s happiness and lets them fulfil their dream of trying to be accepted by humans even if he will never like humanity himself. Peak character development, 10/10.

Villain/s: all of them felt fleshed out and I look forward to seeing them in the series! Posed their own genuine threats with varying levels of morals. Again, all were fleshed out quite well and played a role in the story.

April: honestly, she didn’t have too much in it compared to the others but does play a key role in the final act and the ending itself. An interesting iteration of April, curious to see more of her.

Animation: 10000000/10

It was brilliant. What else can I say? Though inspired by Spider-verse it is its own style which is amazing to look at. It thrives in action scenes and landscapes. Another groundbreaking style that I hope to see influence others.

Music: 8/10

It slaps. Almost all of them I will be playing for the next week or so. The soundtracks really set the mood beautifully, especially the sombre track. Paired with the animation - ugh - chefs kiss

Overall Rating: 8/10

I am usually very very harsh with films, so for me to rate anything above a seven is basically unheard of. Probably my favourite movie of 2023, and my favourite TMNT movie. 2003 only just beats it overall but that’s mostly because I’ve known it for longer - who knows, a few more rewatches and it might overtake.